City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 29 Aug 2022

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From YouTube: 8.29.2022 Governance Committee

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8.29.2022 Governance Committee

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um Welcome everyone. I call this meeting of the governance committee to order um we'll start with.

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A roll call um counselor lombardi here, councillor tabor here and I'm counselor cook, and I'm here.

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The first item, under our on our agenda today is the approval of the minutes from.

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June 13th july, 1st and july 25th has everyone had an opportunity to look at those okay.

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Can I get a motion to approve those minutes? um Yes, second, all right, all in favor all right.

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All right meeting minutes are approved. um Today we are going to be discussing.

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Continuing our discussion of committees and ordinances and our review of those.

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The first thing under our agenda today is the public, a proposed public art ordinance.

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For a public art review committee- and there are two changes- we're talking about- first- is our.

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Current city council policies just a slight amendment to those so that public art would be.

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Refuted by a public art review committee, so it alters those to take into account the proposed.

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Ordinance to establish a public art review committee and today I have invited nancy pearson.

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To come to the the committee to talk to us about how this idea originated a public.

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Art the idea of a public art review committee, would you mind joining us.

B

Good morning sure hi good morning, everybody thanks for having me it's so nice to see you. Thank you for all your.

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Hard work on this committee and on the council um it's been a pleasure not to watch. I have to say.

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um So as as far as these guidelines go we're going back to about, um I would say, 2013 2014.

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Art speak days when we noticed that, although the city had a um art, speak was was doing some.

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Public art, administrative work for the city per an mou between the city and art speak.

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And although the city did have the public art percent for our ordinance that we rarely ever.

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Saw the city following through with any of these policies and, in fact, in the history.

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Of the ordinance we've only had one project come to fruition, which was at foundry garage.

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And this was before even these policies, so what artspeak decided to do was was research and draft.

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A comprehensive set of public art guidelines for the city council to adopt and for the city.

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To follow so art speak created these guidelines. It was members of art, speak.

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Kathy sununu, robin larry, meyerkoff and middle school art teacher anna nuttall were the three.

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Main architects of the guidelines which were passed and voted on um as policy by the city.

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Council, I believe it was 2014. and that gave us something to fall back on and to point to.

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Anytime, the city would would sort of go off off script when it came to public art, um then what.

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Happened after I left art speak, I'm not really sure. I can't give you exact dates, but art speak.

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Sort of went in a different direction than the mou and the city needed and and the.

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City broke its its connection and its ties with art speak um and art speak eventually.

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Dissolved as an organization, and when that happened, there was no entity to perform the.

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Tasks in the city's policy as it stands because art speak was responsible for creating the park.

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The um public art review committee and all of the things that happened with that. So I believe.

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That is pretty much what kate picked up and I and I had conversations with her about about the fact.

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That we had these policies, they they are adopted policy, but there's no entity to enact the policies.

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Thank you. So much did anyone have any questions for nancy, while she's here.

C

We've had the situation come up with this council nancy of people who want to donate art and.

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We think it's did, art speak, have that situation arise and and how did you deal with that.

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Did art speak, uh have dialogue with the the donor, or did they just.

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Make a recommendation to the counselor um both yes, that was part of what art speak, did and.

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That happened even before the guidelines were in place and generally what art speak would do.

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Is impress upon the donor that, along with the art piece, the donation needed to be included um a fund.

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In that would repair the work or update the work or whatever needed to be done with the work.

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That was essentially about ten percent of the worth of the work, and sometimes um the donor.

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Would agree to that and sometimes they they couldn't or wouldn't and in which case.

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The we worked with the city manager to figure out that piece of it, but that was the role of.

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Art speak that now, there's no longer any entity to do that and per the guidelines that that the city.

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Had adopted were um some of the things to look for and some of the things to go by, so it wasn't.

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Just that a committee would get together and say we like it or we don't like it. Those aren't the.

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Criteria, there's a whole bunch of criteria um when you're evaluating and accepting public art.

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And that's what the committee and that's what the guidelines specifically call for. So.

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Really anybody could could step in that role and follow the rubric or the criteria. Okay,.

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Any other questions, um no, that would be the thing that I would think of too. Okay.

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Thank you so much for coming and giving us the history.

B

My pleasure I'll just be right there in case something else comes up right. Thank you. So much.

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What you'll see in your packet today is a draft ordinance that sets up a public.

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Art review committee and that's to replace the non-existent um review process that we.

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Don't have anymore because art speak no longer exists at the city level and the.

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The draft language I took directly from the public art guidelines and you'll see there are red lines.

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In your draft, that's because of a discussion. um I've had back and forth with the legal department.

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Just altering those slightly so that they fit within the guidelines for ordinance, essentially.

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But it doesn't change the public art guidelines. Those are still adopted.

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This is a separate ordinance that would establish the public art review committee.

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So we can go through it if you would like.

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Kind of section by section I think that would be good because um you know whatever reason did.

D

Not get to review it earlier, so it's completely reasonable and this is new for us. So I'm going to.

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Share my screen so that people at home can see what we're talking about. This is straight from.

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The packet which is available on the city website, so if you want to pull it up on the city website,.

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That's great, you can have a copy at home, but I'm sharing it here for the purpose of this review.

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um The first part of this draft ordinance defines the the membership and term and.

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Most of these guidelines came straight from the public art guidelines that were adopted.

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The the few changes that were made is that we changed. We reduced the number of city staff.

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Mostly because of issues around trying to reduce the number of hours that we're asking city staff.

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To sit in committee because we have so many committees at this stage, so we've reduced that.

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To a designee from the city manager to sit on the committee instead of one library, one dpw, so we.

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Would have one individual from the city and then we'd have members of the community and we've asked.

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The members of the community to have specific expertise in areas around art and public art.

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The rest of the members will be appointed by the mayor as we do with most committees and.

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They would have staggered terms growing from two to three years again trying to preserve expertise.

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On the committees and the committee would be chaired by a member of the local arts community.

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So that's the membership in terms. If anyone has any questions, let me know just speak up or I'll.

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Just keep going powers and duties; these are the responsibilities outlined for the committee.

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Some of these have just been slightly altered from the guidelines, um and that was altered.

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Basically, to make sure that we are that we have a proper land use review from land views boards.

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Rather than things being referred directly, we we want to want to make sure the land use boards can.

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Also refer things to the public art review committee that they have that opportunity. I.

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Know we've had some concerns from some of our land use boards when they have an art.

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Piece come before them that they don't have the expertise to review that. So we want them to be.

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Able to review it, not just city council, review and referral, so so you'll see that change there.

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And then also um I I was.

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I was interested in potentially having a a review process for art on private property.

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And we still have questions around that that would actually have to come through the land use boards.

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And then also their role would be to help the city on acquisition, maintenance and marketing and.

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Public art, the public, art collection, developing a stewardship policy question about the prom private.

D

Property, how would how do you imagine that would work? I mean I don't. My concern was that whenever.

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Somebody wants to install a art piece in on private property that it's going to go through.

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A land use board because it's a big enough piece: it's a permanent installation that the public art.

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Review committee would have a role in looking at that, not just one of the land use boards.

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But that's why we we altered this to put in the land use reports can refer, can refer to the.

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Public art review committee so think about it, like the historic district. If somebody wants to put a.

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A mural on the side of a storage shed or and the hdc does not feel comfortable.

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With limiting that or reviewing that, because right now.

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If you look at the hdc guidelines for the city, you don't have limitations on paint.

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And paint color um but say somebody's painting, a mural. Well then, you have this question of well. Is.

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That really appropriate, um then the hdc could seek support and review from the park as well.

D

I think that um in the hdc one of the things that is limited is um advertising. So if, if the.

D

Mural was seen as advertising and we went through this specifically, then that was not allowed.

D

So but I I'm really hesitant to you, know: um regulate.

D

You know how people paint their houses or their barns. I.

D

I I you know, I have a problem with that.

E

Just to clarify this does not add any additional regulation. The only thing it does is allow the.

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Land use boards, if there's some element that is coming up within the development process, that.

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Has a art component then there's that opportunity for referrals. So it's not adding any additional.

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Layer of regulation, so if there's any confusion on that point, so whatever you're allowed to do by law.

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Right now you are continued to allow to do so if you're putting some sculpture in your backyard.

E

You know, that's not an issue. The only point of this was really to give the land use boards to.

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The extent there is some art element that they would feel more comfortable having people who.

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Understand the art element better and how that might intersect that the land use boards would.

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Have an opportunity to get input from another arm, so it doesn't add any layer of regulation.

D

I just have a problem with regulating art and, except perhaps in the historic district.

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Yes, I think the goal is actually to eliminate some of the the concern around regulating.

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Art allowing them to say: okay, we don't have an expertise in this. Let's let the public art review.

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Committee, chime in and share their views on, you know on art, and that would be a more.

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Open audience to public art, because the goals of public art review are to encourage.

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Placement of art in the city, so it's allowing them that extra opportunity to hear from people.

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Who actually are interested in more public art to share their views on a piece like that.

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In the community, I think that's that's the concern rather than just saying no, you can't do that. We.

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Don't know how we don't have the expertise to evaluate that. I think that's the concern.

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We don't want, we don't want people shutting down our opportunities because they feel uncomfortable.

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So I mean in a sense we're creating a jury and art jury. um I'm I I don't know I mean I.

D

um I I I will have to think about that a lot more before I would agree with it.

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um I should note that we already have that problem, though within the city, because right now the hdc.

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um Acts and sometimes the zoning board.

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And planning board act as that jury for public art and that that has been a challenge.

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Already, as we've seen with some of the public art projects that have come forward in downtown.

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That that they actually were tasked with reviewing something and weren't.

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Necessarily, I can't speak for them, but not necessarily comfortable with that process and.

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Are in a situation where they don't know if they should just reject it outright.

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So they're already acting in that role without anyone to consult- and I think that's the concern.

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Is giving them that opportunity? I think the other piece in here is that you'll see.

E

This is, they only accept referrals, so if the land use board felt that it was not something.

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That they wanted to continue to handle under their current jurisdiction. They could. It is.

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Simply setting up the opportunity for this art committee to look at something.

E

If it's referred to them, so they don't have independent jurisdiction. So if that helps yeah.

E

Good I'll still reserve that's fine! It's fine! Yes, um interested in.

C

An opinion from our deputy city manager and a legal opinion.

C

If a private citizen places art that's visible to the neighborhood.

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Or surrounding buildings, in a commercial area, they choose private art and put it on private property.

C

Is that public art do we have jurisdiction over that? No, at this point, no yeah, unless you.

E

You may have a different view, but if it's, it depends if we're talking private residential.

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Property and generally, if it's not advertising, no, so we did have an occasion of just that with the.

B

Mural of ruth blay that went up last summer, that was on a private commercial building.

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On court street across the street from the new pha project, have any of you noticed that okay.

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So that project had to go before both the hdc and the um the zba. I believe- and that is where.

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Then former chair david raymond was extremely uncomfortable. Having the conversation about.

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The artwork and whether or not it constituted advertising or not advertising or in and it was.

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Private property- and he and it was paid for by private money, and we still had to go through.

B

Circles and circles of conversation on art versus advertising and people not understanding and.

B

I I don't know that that this committee, that the that that referral fixes that, but I can tell you.

B

That is an example of exactly what you're talking about and as somebody who is on the board of.

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Directors of friends of ruth blade bringing this project to fruition. It was extremely disheartening.

B

To listen to the conversations about the subject matter and art in general, on a private property, so.

B

I just want to let you know that this is happening. I don't know that this is a great solution. I'm not.

B

Gonna I'll, let you guys debate that, but it it it did happen yeah and within the htc that has.

E

Its own yes, special rules and regulations, my understanding, it wasn't necessarily the hdc.

B

The zba it was because it was um it there was, there was wording. You know there was. There was.

B

It's called a tombstone and it explains what the artwork is and that fell under sinus signage right.

B

That's anywhere in the city yeah, there are nuances right if it's signage versus right, sculptural.

E

Piece is what I had so that that so that's the conversation that happens is it artwork or is it.

B

Signage and that's the slippery slope that that I think you're talking about so okay yeah, very.

B

Nuanced. Thank you. Thank you. So we're trying to address that by providing the additional.

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Option for referral to public art review so that you can have experts on public art weigh in.

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Essentially, to support our land use boards, and while I personally would like to see stronger.

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Language, so that they're required to have uh public for required for art to go before.

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A public art review, um I don't think we can usurp the um authority of our land use boards.

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In review, because of state rsa and their role, so this was to provide that that extra.

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Opportunity- and we can keep we'll keep discussing it. This is not the day for.

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Decisions on this so so I think that that's an important um element to this too.

C

I'm I'm just not sure we can regulate bad taste much as we'd like to private property.

D

That's right or define bad taste right.

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Definitely not definitely not, but we can. We can at least allow people support people in.

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In allowing actually experts to to consider whether or not something is art versus signage or.

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Rather than being concerned about it following very strict guidelines, I think.

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I fully support this on public property. um I'll put it that way,.

C

Yeah- and we do have the comfort of knowing that this is referred by a land-use board.

C

To the park- and it comes back with an opinion, but the ultimate decision is still the land use boards.

C

Yes and that's as gover as statutes govern, you know.

C

Which limits their.

C

Limits their powers.

A

I don't think the goal is to limit art at all by this process. I think the goal.

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Is to allow for more art by this process to not have land use boards rejected outright.

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Because they don't understand um kind of the artwork or the art piece.

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um Rather, let experts give a an honest opinion about whether or not this is an art piece. um So.

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That the land use sports feel more comfortable in making those decisions. I think that's that's.

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That's why this was included um specifically because I was concerned about the ruthlay.

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um Situation and what had occurred, and also the situation at um tuscan market downtown.

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With the art pieces murals on the side of their building right, but that was a historic district.

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Exactly exactly so, it was about making sure that we we provide this. This additional venue.

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To support public art- and I would just add, if I may, um that throughout history.

D

It's the art experts that were most critical of avant-garde, anytime, avant-garde, art, so just.

D

You know right right, so you have to be careful so yeah.

A

um So let's keep just discussing that element of this.

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At our next meeting or.

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You'll see that the rest of the guidelines here just fall straight from the.

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The public art guidelines that are adopted by the city, some of these.

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We like just removed, reviewed and removed and moved up like so we re essentially.

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Just reordered some of them so that it was clear what the priorities were.

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We actually, since we already named stewardship in the.

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Paragraph earlier paragraph: that's why this is removed, collaborating with the library on.

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Public art collection um you'll see that that is also.

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Removed there and then below that.

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The meeting requirements we didn't want this to be incredibly restrictive. We didn't want a committee.

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That, I think, was meeting all the time. It's it's.

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It's a committee that should meet as needed, but at least quarterly because of the tasks beyond.

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Tasks of reviewing public art, the tasks around stewardship and encouraging public art would would.

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Require at least a quarterly meeting now they could meet more frequently if they decided to.

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And then the public art review committee would report back to the city council looking at.

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Potential resources in the public, art trust.

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Proposed municipal capital projects and inclusion of art in design and emphasizing.

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Public art projects and that advance economic development opportunities. So the idea is that.

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Their role is not just to review but to make some recommendations to the city to encourage.

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More public art development in the community and and ways that we can do that.

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uh And then we added this idea of revenue, development, soliciting and receiving gifts.

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That can go into a public art trust, um and that is not just for maintenance of.

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Art that is acquired, but al also installation of public art and.

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But again, um like all committees, they can't expend monies unless the trustees of the trust funds.

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Decide that it's reasonable for them to expend monies from a public art price.

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And and then I think it's critical um this- this is the guidelines. These are the guidelines that.

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Already here in the funding of public art, you'll see, that's also included your packet.

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The definitions of public art statement of purpose.

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This is already, this is already the guidelines that we have within the city, so.

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We would request a change here at section 11704.

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And the reason for this change is a concern around the ease with which the council can currently.

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Choose to not commit funds for public art with a new capital project.

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A good example is the new wastewater treatment plant where funds were not.

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Set aside for public art, instead of allowing the council just to.

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Say well, this isn't a good place for public art, so we're not going to have.

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A public art piece of sodium associated with this project. Instead, they would identify another.

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Publicly owned property within the city, where you could place that public art piece.

D

I actually think that the treatment plan is an excellent place for some public art.

D

Myself, but right right, it faces it's, it's another gateway to the city and just for clarification.

E

There is uh money in this year's budget once the city council decided that they wanted to continue.

E

With the art, so there is money in the budget that will go to the trust for its share of public art.

E

So maybe once this committee, if it gets launched, gets going then there'll be a action to take.

C

The public art trust is established. Do we know what's in it? How much is.

C

In it right, oh, I had that figure handy and I don't at the moment but yeah. Yes,.

A

Yes, I would, if I may,.

D

We might look at the issue that happened in kittery with private property and.

D

Private building that was painted as an art piece and that actually went to the courts. I believe.

D

And you know, is.

D

Informative, I guess, of course, that's maine, but nevertheless,.

A

It's definitely worth continuing to review that.

C

Yes, I was, um I was looking at the language about the chair of the public review committee.

C

I just it's a little unclear to me: it's a little fuzzy whether the chairman is appointed by the.

C

Mayor or elected this says committee will be chaired by a member of the local arts community.

C

And the chair will make interview and make recommendations for openings. The term of the chair.

C

Is for one year with eligibility for re-election for two additional terms, so I would assume.

C

He's elected or she's elected by the other members of the committee should we clarify that.

D

I would agree with that. I think that's why it should work and maybe should be specified.

A

And we can clarify that. um I don't think that it's.

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Most of our ordinance, our ordinances, are not very specific about the way that it's done.

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But we can clarify that if we, if we really want to here, I think that that's reasonable.

C

So, each year the the review committee would elect their chairman once again. Yes,.

A

So clarify chair and would the committee have the same.

D

um Rotating membership that other committees have too yes, I think that the.

A

The language says people would be elected to between two and three-year terms to create a.

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Stagger so I think that that's, that is the plan to create a stagger and membership.

C

I we might also want to add a provision that they meet quarterly.

C

Or at the discretion of the chairman.

C

If they need to meet more frequently or less frequently I'll just put that out there for.

C

Discussion: okay! Yes, I think the the the language currently just says that they're required to meet.

A

Quarterly at a minimum, but we can.

A

Add to that language as well, so that it's really clear that they can meet more than quarterly.

E

So right, right now I see it's a park shall meet as necessary, but at least quarterly. So yeah.

C

That's that provides for that. Yes,.

A

um Got it covered.

A

Are there any other questions about this ordinance, or should I keep going through the.

A

Existing ordinance so that we know what's currently there.

A

On the funding for public garden again, this is the existing ordinance that we have in place.

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And all we're doing is changing the exemption so that the city council.

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Doesn't exempt public art for projects rather that places them in other locations in the city.

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If needed on other pieces of public art or public property.

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And then the other changes on funding accepted- and this is a situation that I encountered this year.

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Where somebody wanted to donate money to commission a piece of public art.

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For the city, it would add not just that funding can be accepted for public art trust, but it also.

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Authorizes the council to accept donations with a designated purpose to commission works of art to.

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Be placed on public property and the commissioning process shall follow the same procedures outlined.

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In the ordinance for public art associated with capital expenditures by the city.

A

Which is this current ordinance, so we already have a process in place.

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When we have a capital project for commissioning pieces of public art, for that.

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For that project for that capital project, so this would just allow individuals to also donate funds.

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To the city for specific purpose, to commission a piece of art to go through this process, this.

A

And because we'd have a public art review committee in place, it would be a lot easier.

A

To go through a process like this to commission a piece of art. I think we.

D

Had a situation where a person was actually donating a specific piece of yes, art right.

D

That was that that was the one that brought up the question.

A

Yes- and I actually have somebody else who wants to donate funds for a specific purpose for art.

A

um But doesn't have a means to do that. We don't have a process currently at the city to donate.

A

Funds to be used for a specific public art purpose, so this would allow somebody who doesn't have a.

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Piece of art in mind, but has a purpose in mind to donate those funds for that specific purpose for.

A

The city to commission they make a contribution to the trust fund. That is a restricted contribution.

D

Would that be the process that someone would use if I had if I had um 20 000 that I wanted to.

D

Create a piece of art that celebrated, um you know me, you know, and uh so I could contribute.

D

To the trust fund and say: well, you know this is designated uh to be a statue of me.

D

You know um whether or not that would pass muster, um I kind of doubt it, but.

A

I think that it doesn't, I think, would have to be more obviously a more general right.

A

Right, um you can go and speak if you want yeah, I mean that the city council does have the authority.

E

To accept funds for very specific purposes, I think the intention here was probably just to give it a.

E

Little more process and a clear place for it to go without having to create something special. So.

A

Right, um you know there. There are ways for the city to accept funds with limitations on it and.

E

And wrap it up with all sorts of conditions. That's why you have a section under your council agenda.

E

For grants and donations, um particularly the grants because they come with strings and it's.

E

Kind of more like that, when you've got a lot of strings, so this is, as I see it, was intended just.

E

To say, okay, this will make it easier for the city council, because there'll already be a place to to.

E

Put the money and a process to create the project and and the artwork and get it installed. I guess.

E

That's how I saw it. Yes, I I think that that was the the goal here was to trigger the process too.

A

Because somebody can make a donation to the public, art trust for a specific purpose and that donation.

A

Could sit for 100 years in the public art trust if there's no trigger to trigger a process to.

A

Create that art, so this specifically says you can accept money to commission works, and this is the.

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Process that you'll follow to do that, so it kind of triggers that process, not just the donation.

A

I think that's the goal. I would hate for anybody to make a large donation and have it sit.

D

Well, I mean there's actually nothing wrong with that too, because it builds um it builds.

D

The fund that supports.

A

But especially not somebody who'd raised money to donate for a specific artwork yeah. You know.

A

To be installed and then to have it sit and not, I want to make sure that that we are honoring.

A

um Contributions that are directed for a specific purpose, so that's that's the goal of this language.

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Here to understand that a donation can come in for a specific purpose and that.

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That we will honor that if we choose to accept the donation and go through the public art review.

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Process for that donation, so those are the only two changes to the existing ordinance.

A

Or recommendations that I had for changes of the existing ordinance um and then we would add, on the.

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Ordinance from the public art review committee- and then um this is one of those complicated things.

A

Because public art is, there are several places that it sits within city, ordinances and policies.

A

So then we go back to the existing policies around public art. This gives us the opportunity to modify.

A

The current policies to reflect these changes because the current policies refer to art speak.

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Referring to or art speak so this would change, and I just brought up city council policy 2009-6.

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To a public art referral and acquisition policy and essentially change the language.

A

In that current city council policy to remove art speak as the reviewer and to establish that.

A

It goes to the standing committee, which would be the public art review committee.

A

And because we have two city policies too: around public art we currently have.

A

A public art acquisition policy and here I'm going to show those at home. The second policy.

A

Public policy regarding public art, um we would combine the two policies, so it's one policy so.

A

It's less confusing for individuals and we just took the language from.

A

The city council policy 2014 to the public policy regarding public art and added it directly into.

A

The other policy, so it is here whenever from any source an issue related to public art, should be.

A

Brought to the attention of the city council, that matter will be referred to the standing committee.

A

So that's basically, we just combined two policies here.

A

And then also, instead of requiring that public art.

A

Outdoor art must include a cash stewardship donation of 10 percent. We would allow.

A

For it, it should include a donation of at least 10 percent to cover the cost of maintenance.

A

And stewardship of the public art that gives the council the opportunity to be a little more.

A

Flexible there, if they chew, if we have enough money in the public art trust to do stewardship.

A

You know that's a decision that basically leaves the decision to the council on whether or not we.

A

Need the extra 10 in donation, um but it's still it's it's important to consider that we do that.

A

It's important to have an additional amount of funds for stewardship, but if something were.

A

Really really important and we didn't have the additional funds for stewardship. The council could.

A

Choose to expend other funds for stewardship or allocate those funds for stewardship.

A

And so again, this just removed language artspeak and called it. The committee.

A

And the reason we didn't specify public art review committee and we just use.

A

Languages around standing committee and the committee is in case the name changes over time that we don't have to go back and revisit this policy.

A

uh The change from time to time that was actually just putting dashes in there.

A

um That was just a a grammatical change, so those are the only changes to the public art policy.

A

Is combining the two and removing references to art speak and changing it to the committee.

A

And the standing committee and then changing the substantive.

A

Change would be changing it from must to should on cash stewardship.

A

That's it all right I'll again, I want I'm gonna have to look at this. Yes, I think it's important.

A

That everybody take a good look at these, um but I thought it was important today that we hear from.

A

Nancy pearson and that we go through and look at these in detail. Does anyone have.

A

Any other questions right now are we ready to move on to our next item? We can discuss this.

A

Again at our next meeting in more detail, I think we should be careful about waiving the 10 percent.

C

Stewardship, I think there was, I think that was a thoughtful language when it was created.

C

Because there is a cost to the citizens right to maintain this, um you know the art of foundry place.

C

Is new but 10 years from now, it'll probably need cleaning or repairs or.

C

Maybe seeking into the ground who knows so.

C

There's some good thought put in there. I don't know of any organization that does not require.

D

D

Ongoing maintenance of something or support of it right, and I agree that we should have.

A

We should make sure we have funds for maintenance and, honestly, we can change this or not change it.

A

I'm flexible on that. In any case, the council can always vote by two-thirds majority to.

A

Change the you know to to take a different action, even if it's a policy of the council.

A

Does it spin the rules and change and accept a donation without the 10? So so it's a.

A

I think that this is one of those things. That's that's fairly flexible.

D

Okay, yeah, okay, any other thoughts before we move on. No okay, that's good! um Yes, uh I was just gonna.

E

Suggest, since um we have a member of the cable commission here, if you wanted to flip the order.

E

The committee wants to do that. Okay, we can do that. Is everyone, okay, with that, if we okay.

A

um Again, thank you nancy for joining us today. um The next item on our agenda, then we're going to.

A

Switch two things around um and instead talk about the cable, television and communications.

A

Commission first, and um so we actually have someone here joining us um and james.

A

Hewitt who's come from jason, hewitt, sorry, jason jason. Would you mind joining us and talking.

A

To us a little bit about um the status of the cable, television and communications commission.

A

I want to note that this came on our agenda because of a request from the committee, so.

A

So that's why we've invited him here today good morning, counselors. Thank you for your time. This.

F

Morning, um you want to pull up microphone closer here good morning. Thank you for your time.

F

I'm new to the commission uh myself uh arrested in portsmouth now for about a year and three months.

F

um One of the reasons that brought me to the commission to begin with, and some other.

F

Concerns that we've discovered is the uh I'd, say, inadequate state of what I'll call.

F

Internet access, via via wireless or via cylinder, in several areas of the city that are troubling in.

F

Many ways, additionally, though, as we kind of look at the challenges for the actual um the um I keep.

F

I'm messing up the name of it: the um the charter or the grant for the the cable, the actual cable.

F

Charter franchise. Sorry thank you. Franchise, franchise agreement, looking at trends on that and.

F

Looking at subscription trends, certainly there's a trend that you know subscribers you know are.

F

Down- and this is because the people have shifted their viewing preferences over to what I'll call.

F

Internet delivered, but yet at the same time, we're kind of struggling with the idea of this internet.

F

Is still delivered via the physical properties of the cable that the chart the um franchise.

F

Itself was agreed to provide right of way for so we see all these issues kind of intermingled.

F

To some degree- and we were kind of thinking that maybe we ought to be clear on what our charter is.

F

What the commission should be doing, and we've kind of proposed some language to present some.

F

Ideas to see if there's interest in the council about representing the citizens on these issues.

F

I can walk through this if you would like. Would that be useful? That would be thank you. Okay, so.

F

I'm going to focus largely on the changes itself in the red. We expand the definition from the.

F

In I'm sorry in paragraph a and the second paragraph section and the second paragraph.

F

In the sentence, the operation of cable television, as well as the delivery of broadband internet.

F

Services via multiple physical transport methods, and so while there's no real, I guess governance.

F

Of this, it would allow us to kind of explore and talk to providers beyond just the cable.

F

Television themselves so, for example, verizon, um but also bring into scope uh providers like.

F

Sorry, the uh fairplay, thank you fairpoint. What used to be a fair point right now.

F

Right, absolutely um right, and so so that we can just address service quality overall.

F

um And then the next set of changes again is to add, in section b, uh to add the term.

F

And broadband internet, I believe we made some kind of housekeeping changes uh next.

F

So shelf serving and again second paragraph advisory capacity, the cable and rob and internet.

F

Commission and to remove kind of the reference to standing subcommittees as being something we could.

F

Address if needed, but we just didn't see the need. Let's see, um we simplified the language.

F

In section c, really just to talk about the powers shall oversee the operation of the existing cable.

F

Television franchise agreement and any future agreements city council may approve and then again.

F

As well as assist in the negotiation of such agreements and as the need arises, consider.

F

The availability and quality of rob and internet services delivered via any physical transport.

F

Which includes again phys, we felt it important to call out physical cabling or over-the-air delivery.

F

And work to understand the needs and desires of the citizens of the city of portsmouth.

F

And further the committee may work with any relevant providers to meet those needs. You know.

F

As as appropriate and guided by the city council so and again, we've had actually a.

F

New member or a new person expressed desire to be a member of the of the commission and.

F

I know that uh that a membership has been a challenge for that commission. As far as numbers.

F

He specifically has come to us because he's very frustrated with the data access issues that we.

F

Have with the cellular network itself so just to provide a little more color. We had discussed in.

F

In one of the meetings, the idea of basically sending out an imitation letter to the various.

F

Cellular providers in the area just have an open discussion uh to talk about what the barriers.

F

They may see to improving the service to the to the residents of the city of portsmouth.

A

Thank you. It's actually very helpful. Your explanation so just um comment again. I.

D

uh You know I I hear a lot of people are frustrated with comcast, specifically.

D

There are two new players. I think that it's the um the 5g now, which is pretty adequate.

D

For one for having general broadband access and as well as of course, fair, fairplay fiber, I would.

D

Just make it broad enough to include, I think you have I I haven't read it carefully, but that there.

D

May be other technologies coming down, I mean, obviously there will be because this is a very.

D

It's a very competitive field, absolutely and we've been living under a fairly.

D

Monopolistic um process uh for a long time so.

D

I think you know, I think, to encourage competition in this would be a great advantage.

E

And I'll just add in it's part of the conversation we've had at the cable commission, which is.

E

You know we don't at a local level, have a lot of um you know. Regulatory levers that we can.

E

We can use, but sometimes we can use just our our voice and our advocacy and and maybe identify.

E

Barriers- and I really uh kind of appreciated the the thinking you know. Is there something.

E

That we're doing from a municipal point of view that is making it harder rather than easier to.

E

Get the kind of competition that we'd like to see so it's kind of looking at it from both.

E

Both perspectives, which is, can we, you know kind of say you know we really do- deserve better internet.

E

Delivery with whatever you know modality that that we're getting it from and also is there.

E

Something we can do here to to increase that competition and the committee's willing to kind.

E

Of see if they can look at that and and maybe find a way to make some, you know invite some.

E

Improvements, I guess, is how I like to look at invite some improvements, because that's really.

E

Where we're going, I think the other thing I'll offer, if I may be permitted, is that as we.

F

Struggle to address the declining enrollments that drive the franchise fees that come to the city.

F

I think inviting other providers of similar services together could result. Maybe some creative.

F

Solutions to preserve that funding to preserve the funding of the public television in the area.

F

Because we become a little concerned that comcast could say that, given how people are consuming.

F

Content is it really on us now to provide funds? You know for public television. You know for that.

F

Very reason right should we be funding, youtube could be a question they would have you know or.

F

Something along those lines, so um we think by expanding the mission or the scope, then.

F

It gives us a little more opportunity to get some different ideas if we could get a meeting.

F

Going with these providers, who knows what we might hear from them yeah, I think that's great.

A

Counselor taber, I I think I applaud the initiative um because I think I think we're really.

C

Skating to where the peck is going with this, I just saw that streaming, video.

C

Over internet audience is larger now than cable audience. Just as a couple of months ago,.

C

And to your point about the franchise fees, the fcc ruled that cable providers can now.

C

Count public access costs against their five percent, which they didn't used to be able to do so.

C

That will increase the pressure to on them to reduce those services.

C

The interesting question becomes.

C

Would you some, would we someday award a video franchise to somebody other than a cable provider.

C

And I don't know if we can even do that under the rss and that's part of the conversation that we've.

E

Had that right now, the both the state and the federal legislation really limit municipalities.

E

Ability to regulate in this field to just cable television, so that's why it's kind of good that.

E

We're having this different thinking about how to encourage a conversation, how to remove barriers to.

E

Competition, because we we don't have that you know ability to to arm twist a little bit.

E

Other than in that very narrow field of cable television, so that's why, when you look at.

E

The franchise fee agreement or the franchise agreement that we have right now with comcast.

E

It doesn't cover the internet broadband side of the house. It literally just covers.

E

That narrow piece and and so that's uh precisely the issue- yeah yeah.

F

I have two comments to offer that and I just want to first of all say that's a salient point. I want.

F

To make sure we're not misrepresenting um our uh supposed powers here, there are limits right.

F

To what we could do, vis-a-vis the federal laws um but and state law and state laws, you know to.

F

That, to that same degree, the question we wonder about too is that providing.

F

We would like to know more about how the wireless providers secure property to secure their towers.

F

In the city of portsmouth, and I'm not saying, we would necessarily bring that to bear as a lever.

F

But it's something to be considered that number one removing barriers to this one thing, but also.

F

Should things not go the way we want, it could become a lever, the other direction, possibly.

F

As they look to satisfy their subscribers right, there's always been a a coverage gap.

C

A dead zone down around little harbor, road and and south part of the city and uh efforts to put.

C

Towers in there have been beaten back by citizen opposition, ah so uh you know, would your commission.

C

Your commission could be a voice in that discussion. Maybe there's a public benefit.

C

That outweighs the private, absolutely I've noticed around portsmouth hospital itself. It's stunning.

F

How poor the reception and the data speeds are and stuff, and that almost brings a safety issue into.

F

Question right and the proximity to 95 is stunning that the service is so bad that close to a major.

F

Federal highway, but anyway yeah. I actually applaud you for bringing these changes forward. I think it.

A

Brings portsmouth into the 21st century where we haven't been, and we haven't been talking about.

A

Broadband internet, in the way that we should have been for a while now, and it is the reality for us.

A

Now that this is this is what the majority of consumers use and when we talk about cell.

A

Phone towers in particular, we are talking about public safety, because the majority of homeowners.

A

No longer have a landline at home, so they rely upon a cell phone signal and if not a cell phone.

A

Signal an internet signal and wi-fi to make phone calls emergency phone calls, so I think.

A

It's critical that we we have this discussion and even if we don't have much regulatory power here.

A

That we can at least have conversations and put some pressure to improve service.

A

One of the things that, if you haven't considered yet, I would love to see some consideration of.

A

Ways that we can approach state and federal government with requests for.

A

Funding grants to expand broadband broadband access in portsmouth. We see a lot of.

A

Commentary at the federal level about lack of broadband in rural areas. I think sometimes.

A

People forget that we have dead zones within cities as well, and that, while portsmouth is.

A

A very wealthy city we're very fortunate. We do have a lot of residents that don't have access.

A

In the way that they should um to broadband and also not do a cell phone signal, so yeah.

A

So um so I really appreciate you coming forward with these recommended changes. Thank you. I have.

F

One other observation and a question, and maybe I'm premature, but um I was discussing with.

F

Suzanne, the idea of us soliciting the citizens of portsmouth to get their feedback to find hot.

F

Spots and areas instead of waiting for people who get irritated to complain to us, is there any.

F

Provision should should this be in this revision, to authorize us to solicit information or is.

F

There already a channel for that available through the city, council or city government.

E

The cable commission has done a survey in the past during a franchise renewal, and we just found the.

E

We actually did a formal survey over 10 years ago, where we found you know a couple thousand dollars.

E

Is what it was at the time to do a survey through the unh survey center? um I'm sure that cost has.

E

Has gone up, I think what we could do is we could talk, you know amongst the staff and the resources.

E

That we have now to see is there a good way to push out a survey? That's kind of cost effective.

E

Or some other means of trying to solicit additional information, but that's something we can.

E

We can look at so we don't anticipate the need to authorize that through this or anything, okay, no.

F

Thank you. No! It's just good public engagement. Yes, if they, the request, came forward for a survey to.

A

The city council, the city council, could consider ways to fund it. If not, if it wasn't already.

A

Envisioned by the city manager may have had a budget for these things already so.

E

That's something we can look at and talk with the cable commission about. Yes,.

A

Are there any other questions? Thank you. Okay. Thank you. No thank you. um I think it's reasonable.

A

To have everyone sit with these changes? These recommended changes until their next meeting.

A

um But they seem pretty straightforward to me, um so I think that this is something that we.

A

Could definitely consider if it's the will of the committee at the next meeting about.

A

Whether or not to move forward with these recommended changes to the council, all right.

A

Thank you next subject. All right.

A

With that said, we will come back to this again at our next meeting and.

A

The last item, under our committee's ordinances review today, is the historical archive blue.

A

Ribbon committee proposal, um which I believe council lombardi, has been working on with our.

A

Legal department, um so I'm going to turn it over to council lombardi to give us an update on where.

A

We stand well, our christine from the library produced a draft of a you know. The purpose in.

D

Charge of the blue ribbon committee, um I only have one more, I don't know if we want to see it.

D

Thank you and I'll give this to suzanne. I have emailed it. Oh you have it. Okay um and uh I took.

D

Just a shot at it to try to make it clearer, I I didn't really change much of the content of it.

D

um But uh what I would basically suggest at this time is to um I mean we can look at this and.

D

Add to it or subtract from it, but my suggestion at this point would be to actually contact.

D

The athenaeum strawberry bank portsmouth historical society or the which are the key or the.

D

Primary organizations, I think that might be participate and.

D

Just have conversations about whether or not they actually.

D

Would want to join this effort, you know we. uh These are assumptions that we made um and so.

D

You know it's worth maybe at this point just to.

D

um Contact them see if there's a representative from each of these organizations that might.

D

Spend a little time with us in fleshing this out, so I'd be happy to do that um and um you.

D

Know I'll talk to christine about that, and uh so I mean that's basically where we are with it.

D

It's not, we haven't gotten very far, but at least we have something down in writing. Yes, that's good.

C

I think this is great progress um and clarifies the thinking.

C

And the next step the logical step, as you say, is we get the stakeholders together.

C

And get their thoughts um and then what needs to be funded and how would we fund it.

C

The only other question, in my mind, is.

C

How do we ensure everyone has access? Because these you know if we take over a public function here.

C

We need to have public access right. I I I think we had talked about that in terms of um it is a.

D

City-Run facility, but that the various entities have their space and have access to that space.

D

I would say that paper documents, part of part of the effort in the long term,.

D

Would be for imaging documents? I know the athenaeum has already.

D

Spent a good, I think they have a huge amount of their collections already imaged.

D

And online I know especially their photographic collection- is phenomenal, like that, so.

D

um So there are documents that you probably don't want a lot of people handling.

D

And that's that's a good reason to do that.

A

um I I think it's, this is a great um place to start and to have these conversations.

A

You know I think, at this stage, what we're really doing is we're asking.

A

These entities, if they want to participate in a blue ribbon committee, to talk about it.

A

And so um I really think that that it would be their roles ultimately to discuss and to.

A

Find a way to proceed and to decide then, at that blue ribbon committee level. If there is.

A

An interest, a sincere interest in creating a community-wide archive and then what the best.

A

Practices would be for that. I I I wouldn't say that I'm an expert on how that should be handled.

A

And I think that really they're the experts in what they want or what they envision um and then.

A

You know, ultimately, if they have recommendations like any committee, it would come back to the city.

A

Council, if they have recommendations for the council to proceed and for all we know.

A

They'll come back and say you know: we've decided on a a private process and by working together.

A

We've created a private process and we don't need action at the city level, although we would love.

A

To have a grant from the city or you know so we don't know exactly. I don't want to predetermine.

A

What they're going to come back with, um but I think it's it's a good place to start to at least.

A

Have the conversations see if they're willing to serve on a blue ribbon committee get everyone.

A

Together on a regular basis, then, at the blue ribbon committee level to have the conversations.

D

Well, I will take. I will pursue that thing. Okay, I suspect we'll find the athenaeum strawberry bank.

C

Both have the issue and the library they all have the issue of we're.

C

We have more collections than we have space yeah and the amount is growing.

C

And I know they're looking at considerable off-site storage, expense.

D

So there's a meeting of the mines that can occur right. I know for a fact that the athenaeum is.

D

Dealing with this right now, you know well, and the city is also dealing with this challenge. Yeah and.

D

The city is still too, you know yeah in our damp basement. That's right in the police station and.

E

Keep in mind for the city, there are two types of records: there are those who are required to keep.

D

Right as a result of state law or business type records, and then this whole other realm that the.

E

Is particularly shepherd of which is, we may not be required to keep them for public records purposes.

E

Under state law or federal law, depending on, if it's you know related to grant monies, we received.

E

Or something but they're important to part of you know the history of portsmouth, and so that's a.

E

Whole nother realm of records, which you know the library keeps a hold of, and it's a great resource.

E

That, actually, we use at a staff level when we're looking for a little bit of history on something.

E

uh To be able to reach out to the library and and see what they can find for us so.

E

That's perfect great, okay, yeah. Thank you. I think we're ready to move on then um other business.

A

Does anyone have any other business to raise.

A

um For me, I should note under other business that I anticipate at our next meeting that.

A

We will have some recommendations on policies related to rotation of terms.

A

And appointments, um I expect those to come back from legal at our next meeting potentially and we.

A

Still have a lot of things sitting on the agenda from sidewalk policy to review of.

A

um Donations policy and conflict of interest still so there are a lot of.

A

Additional things that we will we are going to get to, but that we're currently working with.

A

The legal department on and making sure that we have good language to bring back to the committee.

A

For discussion, the only thing I have for other business is scheduling of our meetings, so.

A

I want to go through our schedules and see if we can have public comment. First, we'll go I'll, go to.

A

Public comment immediately after so, but I thought we should schedule our next several meetings.

A

This committee is, we seem to function better when we have a long-term plan.

A

So it also allows the public to know what our cadence and meetings is exactly.

A

We have been meeting on a two-week basis generally the next that would put the next meeting.

A

On the 12th, the, I should note that the council also has an arpa work session that evening.

A

But if we postpone until the 19th, we actually have city council that evening.

D

Right, the 19th- I will not be here on the 12th- um I expect to be holding my new granddaughter.

A

So it sounds wonderful and I'm going to be, you know. Well I just don't know I. I don't think I.

A

Would commit to something- uh and I'm scheduled to be on a flight to waka mexico on that.

A

Well then, um we won't be meeting on the 12th. Let's, let's look at another day about the 26th.

E

That's rosh hashanah! Oh it is. Why isn't that, on my count,.

E

That's what's popping up on my on my phone calendar yeah.

A

The 25th or the 27th, I think I have marked out.

A

Yeah september is a challenge because we have a lot of holidays. um What if we instead.

A

Looked at a day other than monday, then that's what I was going to suggest um what if we did.

A

Like um wednesday, the 21st mm-hmm.

C

That's good for me.

D

Yeah, that's good. Does that work.

A

um 10 o'clock always 10 o'clock; right, yes, usually, okay, if that works for the staff.

A

It was a matter of when the room is available, so that's why we are scheduled at 10, usually.

A

um I can move something else around. She says. um I think that we need to make sure that we have.

A

The city attorney um stuff by then yeah available, bob sullivan on that date.

E

Okay, I'll have to check his calendar. Okay.

A

We can try to if we can try to hold that time for him, 21 the 21st at 10. and then after that, we're going into october and.

A

We because we again have a monday holiday on october, the 10th and the third is city.

A

Council so 17. we could either go to the 17th or we could stick with a wednesday.

D

I kind of prefer the mondays, if that's possible, but okay.

C

17Th then how's october 17th yeah.

A

At 10 o'clock, I should know that there's a noon meeting in this room that day, so we should make.

A

Sure we can be, we think we can be done. um Then. The next meeting is halloween.

D

Halloween october 31st, that ought to be good for us yeah, that's a good day for us.

A

um And then we're again going to encounter our city council in november.

A

Maybe we should leave that through october. Those three meetings is that enough: okay, yeah, okay,.

A

With that done, if there's no other other business, let's move to public comment.

A

Do we have any members of the public who want to speak? Yes, yeah? Yes, please.

G

Morning be true to 280 south street. My comments are for you for you to consider. First on the.

G

Public art committee, under the membership and term, I would like you to consider changing one word in.

G

The middle of the member of the city staff to be designated by the city manager. I would ask.

G

You to put in there recommended my reasoning, for that is the city council makes policy.

G

And um to keep it consistent with the city, the the mayor and the city council. Looking at this.

G

And considering everybody that comes forward, it would be the same thing, so the city manager would.

G

Recommend some somebody to the city to the mayor and then the mayor would put it up for a vote.

G

um That was my first thing I have. I have on number three under powers and duties. My question is:.

G

I don't understand what the marketing of our public art collection means.

G

And why it is in here I mean that statement to me says we're trying to sell it.

G

I I don't understand how the taxpayers um would be involved in this. um Excuse me, the next, uh the.

G

Next thing I would um like to say is I totally support um council lobardi's position on the.

G

Art on private property, I urge you to consider if you're running this through the land boards.

G

Back it up and think about how anybody proposing a project would have to handle this.

G

I'm assuming that they would have to come forward to any of the land use boards and.

G

Put their proposal put this in their proposal for the land use sports to consider, so this would add.

G

An extra burden, basically on anybody who wanted to do a public or private.

G

Project and I think um private property- I agree with uh council lombardi.

G

You're on uh you're on kind of kind of thin ice there we're telling people what.

G

What color to paint their house or what they're doing this is? This is kind of like paint.

G

And I remember when I went through the boards, this is one of the subjects that's kind of.

G

um Off limits to uh to some of the boards, so I would just put that out for your consideration.

G

um The other thing I would like to bring to your attention is on the actual ordinance.

G

The public art commitment, so the the commitment on section 1.1702.

G

Says this is for municipal buildings, uh which the bid price is from 2 million to 15 million.

G

So this is buildings, that's the first thing and in the exemption, uh we're going to.

G

Buildings, municipal buildings, uh such as water or sewer plants for public art commitment, so I guess.

G

My my question to you to think about is: um are the taxpayers better served on this uh by letting this.

G

Money go back into the water and sewer projects, as lately, we've had overruns in all of our projects.

G

So I mean it's not one percent of the of the amount is is not much, but it still would serve to.

G

Consider the city council bonding less for projects that are overrunning.

G

Or surprising, uh and I would uh I would note that pierce island was a project like that.

G

um The when the sewer line broke, they had to come back to us for 3.6 million.

G

Sagamore creek is the same thing. We started out at 4.4. Now we keep going up so.

G

I don't know if there's any pump houses that would require city art, but.

G

I'm sure that the the residents would appreciate any money going forward go back into here.

G

And it's just something for you to consider. um The other thing is um one last thing here.

G

And pay on on your, I don't know what page it is uh section 1.1707 funding accepted.

G

The question I would have is in the second sentence, with the designated purpose to commission.

G

Works of public art to be placed on public property when you're accepting this, I guess.

G

My question here would be: um will the will this be a public hearing? Will? Will the people be able.

G

To um have input on any of this since you're accepting um accepting these donations, I guess.

G

For the benefit of of the public here- and we generally have um public comment on that.

G

Just some questions I know you'll be discussing this going forward.

G

And some things to consider. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Are there any comments on zoom.

A

Yes, thank you for joining us. Yes, oh okay, you guys don't have any damn things but uh um yeah. This is.

H

Susan and I live at 548 broad street in portsmouth and, as you also know, I'm co-chair of the cemetery.

H

Committee right now, um I want to speak about the archive decisions at starting a committee.

H

I've been doing some well, I've been doing research in those three areas: the anthonym, the.

H

City reference and the historic and unfortunately there is no public access to strawberry bank and.

H

A lot of the history that I may be looking for may be sitting there. So in that note.

H

um The last six months, I spent a lot of time trying to research our cemeteries and to find the.

H

Death, the burial records, not the death records of people going as far back as we can possibly find.

H

Churches changed names and cemeteries, changed names.

H

My point being is that between talking to the anthony and the city, library and in concord.

H

There is no centralized area right now that provides.

H

I can't say in-depth but catalog that who has what wherever so many a time I will go to the anthony m.

H

And we'll try to find stuff and then we'll get a lead to go over here and then you go there.

H

And no, it hasn't been there for a long time. So there's a lot of confusion out there in the.

H

Archive world, I guess, is what you would say, and I was just speaking to them at the anthony last.

H

Week and I brought up the subject that this archive um committee might be starting off.

H

And their first response was: oh we've heard that this is the third or fourth time that a.

H

Group of people were going to get together, do a collaborative and you know, get all our stuff in.

H

One place because right now, it's all over the state, not just in the city of new hampshire.

H

um I mean the city of portsmouth, so that was the first reaction, but then I said no, maybe.

H

We can make this much more serious this time out. So yes, they they're gonna help. I can't speak for.

H

Them you know publicly, but they are certainly very interested and, and jamie had said that.

H

The woman at strawberry bank, um he was quite sure that she would be interested in two because there.

H

Everybody's paperwork is all over the place, so um I don't know this might just be the right time.

H

In the right place or a committee like this to start, but I just really wanted to put that.

H

Out there, so that you guys won't think that there isn't an interest, because there is a big interest.

H

And, as usual, it might depend on who the players are and and personalities. But I know at a working.

H

Level that it's long overdue and the other thing that came up in the discussion was that now that.

H

The lister school was going to be available a lot of people think that might be a perfect site.

H

For our potential archives going forward- and I know that's jumping ahead- you know way out there.

H

But it's, it is part of the conversation out in the community, so I guess I'm advocating.

H

That we would get a potentially blue ribbon committee together, so that we can really find.

H

Out exactly what the needs are, how to go about it and and get the ball rolling. So that's it.

D

Thank you. Thank you so much for for joining us and speaking today.

A

um Thank you. uh Seeing no other public comment I'll close the public comment session.

A

I look forward to seeing you all again for our next meeting in september and which will continue.

A

The discussion around the issues we've talked about today can I get a motion to adjourn so moved.

A

Second, all in favor of returning all right, hi hi, all right. We are adjourned.

A