City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 6 Sep 2023

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9.6.2023 Historic District Commission

A

Foreign good evening, everybody and welcome to the september 6 meeting of the portsmouth historic.

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District commission, the board's actions in these matters has been deemed to be quasi-judicial in.

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Nature, if any person believes any member of the board, has a conflict of interest. That issue should.

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Be raised at this point or it will be deemed waived before we get started. I would like to.

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Announce the members here we have currently an empty alternate seat. So don't all rush down to.

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The city hall tomorrow morning at once, but um um then I have dr dan brown good evening and.

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Martin ryan, hello, reagan, rudig good evening, so vice chair, margo doran good evening. uh I.

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Myself, I'm john wyckoff, the chair um assistant, planner isaac, gilbow good evening, city council,.

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Member rich blaylock good evening you're here no ball games david adams good evening and alternate.

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Karen buffard good evening, hey um so first thing on our agenda is the approval of the minutes.

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Everyone's got a chance to look at those and looking for a motion, I'll move the.

B

uh Be approved as presented second, okay, all those in favor aye against pretty good. Now we.

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Move on to the administrative approvals and isaac gilbo is going to take over.

A

uh There we go some that we're going to pull out what are those all right. So we've got four.

C

Administrative approvals that we are going to pull out this evening for further discussion um or that.

C

Have to be recused upon um so we'll start with number six, and that is 60 pen hollow street and.

C

So the applicant is seeking approval for changes to a previously approved design, so there'll be.

C

Changes to the roof, design and color I'm going to change to the windowsill nosing profile.

C

um So here's just a quick summary of those few changes. um It was a standing seam that.

C

Was changed to a non-standing seam and then the finish was supposed to be a patinaed, copper and.

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It's now just a natural mill finish, and then you can see here that the nosing profile has.

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Gone from three and a half to three quarters of the south and west alleys on the third floor.

C

So the show where the roofing is the different material in color.

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And you can sort of see that from these photos here, especially this.

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um This panel right there, so it shows right up at the top.

C

C

That shows the shades okay. Well. Thank you. Any further questions. Discussion motion.

D

I'm going to make a motion to approve.

E

I'll, second, that, okay, all those in favor all right against recused.

A

I think so, okay, um so we'll move on to number 10 138 maplewood avenue.

C

um This applicant had come back to the htc a couple of months ago for several changes to a.

C

Design- and they are back yet again with just some final uh details- that they would like to share.

C

C

So the rear of the structure had different columns installed than what was previously approved. It was.

C

Asked by the hcc that the applicant come back with more details shown on those columns and.

C

That's what the applicant has shown here. This is what they would like to have as approved.

D

Isaac was this also the situation where the columns were originally round and they were.

D

Changed to square, if that is correct, so there's some question about whether.

D

Members wanted a round column or whether they were okay with a square column with more detail.

D

Is that are we? Is that the summary? Thank you yes, and I think also that there was a couple.

F

Oh, um you can't hear me: can you hear me now yeah? Okay, sorry about that? I'm gonna be sorry.

C

um And and um if if you could add, maybe anything.

C

um You know to this um maybe for clarification purposes.

A

Wasn't there a problem with the roofs over the side, doors or not,.

G

uh No, um I went that was a, I think, the august or july meeting.

G

Okay, I first came, I resolved everything except for the columns and then that the screening on.

G

The side yes yeah, and so after that meeting I went back and we talked to don. You know.

G

I was on in george and they were pretty upset just because that was not their intention. Just.

G

To cheap this out, they just you know and you gotten their letter. That's part of the packet.

G

um So I just looked at it to see if we could, instead of going through, you know, throwing you.

G

Know a couple thousand dollars worth of azac out whether we could add something to this column, to.

G

Get the same sort of sense of detailing that you were looking for with the round columns.

G

And um that's where I came up with this on the sketch, you see the column as drawn.

G

Which is a simple and then I've just added some moldings um crown and base, and then.

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The same kind of a band molding underneath both just to give it give it some detail.

A

Comments and then the also the the screening would shift in.

G

um You know and b so the column on the corner would be prominent.

A

Comments, questions.

E

I was just gonna say I I never liked when a project comes back because it didn't comply.

E

With what was approved- and um there were a series of these things that we had worked through the.

E

Last session- and uh you know, I always just feel like we're- we're being shortchanged as a board.

E

But, given all that um had you come with this originally, I would have thought I.

E

Would have supported this so with or without the moldings uh the square columns with the.

G

Molding, oh okay, I'm just clarifying that yeah! So, given that you know I'm going to.

E

I'm going to accept it and reluctantly and approve it. Anyone else.

H

uh On my sidewalk today I stopped and made a point of going here and I was struck by two.

H

Things one is the outside: columns do actually do not line up with the corners of the building.

H

They're in set some which makes them awkward to begin with, but I left here thinking that.

H

One of the things I appreciated the most about columns was how round they were uh and how much.

H

Design impact there is to a round column over a square one, uh and uh I I don't see putting.

H

A couple of pieces of asac molding, however accurately and wonderfully done, is anything.

H

Turning these into anything architecturally, useful, sorry, okay, I just have to say that.

G

This wasn't done maliciously, they just you know, and um they were well executed. The the.

G

Square columns with the details and they're, you know, and I just think it's kind of punitive to.

G

um Yes, at this point yeah, unless you know the detailing of the old, the old garage was.

G

A little you know is in terms of that little neighborhood there. I think this detail if I'd.

G

Come with you come through the first time they probably would have gotten approved.

G

um Having a conversation about it, the garage it's gone, that garage went with your plan some time ago.

H

And on the right hand- and it had a certain type of detailing- you know that you know that led it.

G

For me to choose the round columns to begin with, but as the project progressed, you know, I think.

G

You know there could be either square or around columns, especially given the location of this. So.

I

You're right, mr chairman, you're right. um So if there's no other discussion.

A

I'm looking for a motion, I'll uh move that we approve this as presented.

B

Second, okay, all those in favor say: aye, aye, aye aye and the chair votes reluctantly, high I'll.

B

Vote opposed and uh opposed is david all right, so thank you. I had to watch these guys. Will you, anne.

C

um All right so moving on um our next administrative approval will be number.

C

11 3 pleasant street and this application is for the installation of an awning system.

C

I will get to that, so it's going to be in this um back uh sort of public pedestrian.

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uh Walkway area- and it would be over um this existing sort of trash enclosure.

C

And, as you can see, there's a detailed drawing of the brackets and then the overhang as well.

C

Any questions on uh that one.

A

So it's flat seamed, copper, roof.

A

Does anybody have any questions or comments.

A

E

I'll make a motion to approve. I think this is this is an improvement on some of these.

E

Situations here so I'll make a motion to approve. Second, all those in favor aye opposed of that it's.

J

Making sure because you're not announcing that I'm recusing myself from these? Yes, so no you.

I

Don't have to I'm just we know, I'm saying I'm sure everybody else knows: okay and the last uh last one.

C

That we are pulling out is number 12 and that is 30 pin hollow and again um this would be the.

C

Installation of an awning system at this property as well, and that would be for this utility area.

C

So there's um just sort of a quick uh diagram. There.

C

Is a slight rendering as well.

K

Okay, just to point out that this one is a glass roofed owning.

A

Supported by rods, apparently tie rods. Any comments.

A

Do you have a motion.

E

Again I'll make a motion. I think these are improvements and I'll make a motion to approve.

E

Second, okay, all those in favor. Okay, do you have that all right, all righty? So we will now.

C

um Head back up to the top, and we will continue with the rest as a sort of consent agenda.

C

So, starting back at the top with number one, three walker street, this application.

C

um Is coming back before us, I believe for the third time they have already received approval for.

C

The deck um enhancements that they've proposed they are coming back just for the door, the front.

C

Door replacement and they've, given us a couple of different options, this time to.

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Go over so this is option number one.

C

um Option number two.

C

Option number three.

C

Option number four.

C

All right so they've proposed these four additional options.

C

um And I think their hope was that um they might be able to narrow it down to an option.

C

That the htc could could maybe get behind the the transom lights at the top remain.

C

As far as I understand those would remain, I believe it's just a door. However, I do see.

C

That we have an applicant um here who could maybe speak the same house yeah. That's that's.

F

Not the subject house yeah, oh yeah, sorry, it's just an example. So where do the brackets sit in.

K

All this, what happened to the brackets yeah, I believe you approved- are reusing them. Yes, yeah.

C

um So john, is there a is there a maybe one or two doors out of the four? Those doors are.

F

Listed in the order of preference, so the number one is the first choice. Oh okay, great thank you.

C

Okay, so this would be the first choice store from the from the applicant suppose. As far as.

A

Looking at these four doors, the the color seems to come into play a little bit, and you know one.

A

Three and four just look so door number one has uh four lights of glass in it which mirror the.

H

Four lights of glass in the windows, I would think that would be a place to start the other entry.

H

Door to this house decided, if you do it's all glazed. I think this is an improvement to that.

H

There's a state.

H

Okay, okay door number one: I agree you got it.

A

We're gonna move on we're not voting on this. Oh yeah, right, okay, so great so.

C

um The stipulation would just be um that door number one.

C

um Is is the chosen dark? Thank you. Thank you all right. So moving on to 333 state street, um this.

C

Is returning to us this evening, the applicant will be, or should be here on zoom, to give a.

C

Maybe better explanation as to the design choice for the new awning system. Let me see if I can.

C

We got them on.

C

All right brian, can you hear me.

L

I can are you able to hear me.

C

uh All right um and so brian, um I think um the htc members would just want a little bit more.

C

Of an explanation on the design choice um of the awnings um and if you could.

C

Provide maybe where, where that's coming from sure, so my client td bank is we're preparing.

L

To submit for a major interior renovation, and so the exterior scope is part of that project.

L

um So we were working with td to try to refresh the outside of the building in line with their.

L

Current branding standards, um so this is something that they're applying to other locations. uh The.

L

Signage, which is seeking a separate approval, not- and I seeking approval for you tonight,.

L

um But bringing the new logos in uh removing the existing logos on the existing fabric, awnings.

L

um And and substituting them for these metal, bahama style, shutters.

L

um To bring in more resilient materials bring in their brand color to um to take out the.

L

Darker green, which they no longer use as part of their branding, um so this is just an effort.

L

To bring it in line with their standards, but also complement the building and replace the.

L

Fabric awnings that are more weathered with uh more resilient materials, including the metal.

A

Questions and mr chairman, may I just jump in and say I went to the commission. I am.

H

Apologized for what happened the last time we looked at this, I had.

H

I guess I'm getting old. I had conflated this building with the building next door.

H

The international style bank building- and I I made a statement on the basis of it having some.

H

Position in that building, I had completely missed the fact that we're talking about the.

H

This old colonial revival, bank and and I would like to have the opportunity to withdraw my.

H

Statement as to how wonderful I thought they blended in I'm struggling with it right now,.

E

I'll ask the obvious question: why choose the lattice and you should probably introduce yourself.

E

But why choose the uh the shutter quality, the um the slatted canopy instead of a solid canopy.

L

um So I apologize, my name is brian duro and his core stage group, the architects representing td.

L

Bank um and to answer your question, the it's: it's more of um an open, lattice design, uh the.

L

The thought and proposed concept here was to provide for um backlit um illumination.

L

To these audience, so the slots allow more of a dispersed lighting along the sidewalk.

L

um And that's that's the intent for not having done a solid canopy, because that would create.

L

um Stark shadows on the sidewalk, and this is more of a diffused elimination along the the.

L

Perimeter of the building to try to bring more um you know, architectural life to the to the outside.

L

Of the building and um in you know, to also help our client with uh you know, additional.

L

Impact along the street in the corner and um just increasing increase in lighting to the building.

E

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Are you. Are you reusing lighting that exists today.

D

Or are you coming back later with a new lighting scheme, the detail 5 on this? The sheet here shown.

L

um It does include a detail of of the light fixture that would be up in the.

L

Corner of the eve of the awning, and that's that's new- that's not currently existing.

D

Two to find that it's in the top left corner of either sheet. That's.

L

It's been displayed here, it says it's an led, linear, light fixture.

B

Let's see like apparently place, I see it, can I make another comment.

E

um Given the angle of the slats, once you see the um the the bulb itself, the the lumen itself.

E

I mean: is there a car? Are you confident of the effect that you'll get uh with this detail.

L

This has been applied in other locations. I can provide follow-up photos of what that might look.

L

Like the blades as they break it down, you won't see any glare from the actual fixture. The fixture.

L

Itself is in a channel that has a lens that diffuses the light. So it's not it's not going.

L

To cause any glare from you know, if you're right, underneath it looking up, you might see the fixture.

L

But you will not see it outside of you know the first couple feet away from the building, so.

L

um That that's you know, complemented I guess, by the the blades um the angle of the blades.

D

It has been installed in other td bank buildings and is that why it's being chosen here or if.

D

You've chosen it because you feel it goes well with this particular style of building.

B

Yeah yeah, it is replacing the fabric awnings. That's that's your role, intent so that that's.

L

You know instead of refabricating those awnings in green or um swapping them out, for you know.

L

Solid awning to replace them um this this was the intent, was to just replace the awnings that are.

L

There but it has been applied to other select locations, not not every branch but those that.

L

Have awnings those that have are within buildings that the ones are complementing um that sets your.

L

Role intent here, so it's not just being applied because it's being applied elsewhere. It's it's.

L

Replacing the the existing awnings that are dated- and you know someone at the end of their lifespan,.

A

So I have a suggestion: if the commission agrees um I'd like to have a motion to.

A

Pull this out vote on it now, I don't think we need to discuss it anymore with this fellow.

A

And otherwise, um for instance, mr adams is going to have to be opposed to every.

A

Administrative approval that we're looking at that's certainly not his desire. That's so.

A

um My thought is that if we had a motion, we could pull this out and um take it up immediately and.

A

Then let isaac go back to the balance of the administrative approval, so moved a second okay.

A

All those in favor say aye aye opposed. I I know as in opposed wait. Are we no we're? Oh sorry, excuse me.

J

Just to move forward with just this one, I'm sorry just this one just um pulling out um number two.

J

Okay, so now you want emotional motion for this. One.

J

I'll go ahead and move to approve, as presented.

J

Based on the fact that I think it's an improvement to take the green banding off of.

J

What the sandstone is there and the fact that these are still awnings that are applied and in.

J

The long run will be reversible and will not do damage. Second, all right. um All those in favor say.

A

Aye bye opposed opposed a post. Okay, two opposed three all righty. So where are we 621? Is this.

C

C

The next administrative approval is for 621 islington street, and this is for uh units a b and.

C

C um they are proposing three condensers one for each unit. um The application um itself does not.

C

Have a screening option? um The hcc has proposed that we could stipulate that the applicant chooses.

C

One of our preferred screening options for for the condensers, so we're going to make that a.

A

Stipulation that's correct all right. Thank you. Okay, moving on number four 147 congress street.

M

Yeah come come on up to the.

M

Hi hi, I am representing mcphvac uh on the installation of this uh three units.

M

uh We were uh yeah looking to get some answers. I know, there's a it's a process.

M

uh And uh I don't really know how it works, uh but I I certainly did not understand.

M

Do you want to tell them sure yeah so so the condensers are approved.

C

um What we did was we added a stipulation. Typically, um what we look for in the htc is.

C

That, if um any condensers can be seen from a public view, so in this case you can see them.

C

If you're walking down islington street, we ask that you um screen them with one of our preferred.

C

Screening options, so that's the only thing that we stipulated on that so they're approved and we can.

C

Work together to pick an appropriate style for that, that's awesome! uh So what would be my next.

M

Step uh contact you in regards to what's allowed exactly right, yeah and I can reach out tomorrow.

C

um In an email- and we can discuss that- thank you so much absolutely thank you.

C

Okay, so 147 congress street, um so the applicant um here is seeking a.

C

Couple of uh changes to a previously approved design, it looks like we've got someone here.

C

Good evening, if you want to run us through those changes, um that would be greatly appreciated. I.

N

I certainly can my name is sarah howard. I am here from market square architects.

N

A text with a client at 147 congress, I'll flip through the pages pretty quickly it's a it's a.

N

Classic previously approved and proposed um setup, we've got a cover sheet previously approved floor.

N

Plan proposed floor plan, the areas in box and red are the areas of alteration.

N

If you flip to the next sheet, there's a previous approved, enlarged west edition plan and details.

N

The proposed sheet, 13 shows all of the areas of alteration.

N

So on the details, it's there's an additional trim band above the windows.

N

And the uh increase of detail size for that top trim band to eight and a half inches from.

N

Seven and a quarter.

N

There's some other alterations on the floor plan just in terms of spacing.

N

Of the windows, essentially, the windows had to get a little bit smaller to allow.

N

For fastening to add slightly deeper, so you'll be in blah blah blah yeah.

N

Next sheet is 14 previously approved, shows the all areas of alteration, and then the proposed.

N

There's some additional rain leaders, the railing that's replaced instead of reused.

N

The on the enlarged south canopy plan, the new steel post, holding up the canopy. There is a.

N

Modification that was just brought to my attention tonight that they will not be wrapped in break.

N

Metal, they will just be painted and kind in the field, so it will be an exposed. Ass, I-beam, shape.

N

uh The next sheet just shows the previously approved roof.

N

And then the proposed roof just shows the addition.

N

Of the roof drains and the future ornamental evergreen.

N

Sheet 12 previously approved exterior elevation and inspiration images.

N

Sheet 16 is the proposed. It just catches, all those alterations that were shown in the plan. So the.

N

Slightly shorter windows, the area, the modification for the steel posts replacing the railing in kind.

N

Sheet 17 is the previously approved.

N

And then sheet 17 proposed again just shows the rain leaders, the steel wrapped posts.

N

Which will no longer be wrapped, they'll be painted in kind. The mechanical vents.

N

That will be on the back of the building that face the worth lot in those sizes.

N

Sheet 14 is the actual previously approved window sizes.

N

Sheet 18 is the altered sizes of those they've gotten a little smaller, not that much.

N

Sheet 21 is the proposed window. We've swapped lines from the signature, marvin signature.

N

To the marvin essential, it's the same as material and a very, very similar profile.

N

And then she's 22 we've modified the thin brick material instead of it being gray.

N

To match the staining, we're going to do red and stain it so that it has a more consistent look.

N

And the last sheet is just for reference: it shows the goosenecks and mechanical venting.

A

Comments, yes, um can you help me with defining what the difference between a rain leader and.

H

A roof drain is sure a roof drain is on a flat roof. It's got a little basket and a little cup a.

N

Rain leader is what that water goes into, sometimes they're internal. In this case, it would be external.

N

Also known as a downspout it it in in, in my experience that roof drains were out of sight.

H

And did not rain did not drain to the surface, uh they were carried off in piping. um You seem to.

H

Have a couple of roof drains on the front of the building on the front of the building next door.

H

um That are right next to some of your I-beams, the roof drains that you're using are at least.

H

To me, look like pvc, they had axis uh I'll uh stoppers on them or whatever cleanups.

H

uh Are they going to be left open? Are you talking about the ones that exist at jimmy's.

N

So these these, the brain leaders will will be metal. I believe, painted they'll painted.

N

Oh sorry, what excuse me painted pvc? They don't have uh clean outs, that's just cool they do. I.

H

Was just there they're not installed? Oh, they are. Oh, my gosh apologies exactly what's going on here.

A

Does somebody else want to make a comment I would say, drew is from oj building company.

N

These are site super. Introduce yourself, please, yes, hi, I'm sorry! My name is andrew.

O

Wilson, I'm with the oj building company, I'm a project manager for the building.

O

What can I, uh what can I answer specifically for you, the specific question is: there appears to be.

H

And try to bring there appears to be some pvc roof dreams. I assume yes they're with cleanups.

H

Yes, they that's what I assume yep they're there and they're kind of exposed right on the front of.

H

The building they are yes, are they going to remain that way? They are yep, they'll, be painted black to.

O

Match the posts next to them um was our or is our intent, try and make them look as unobtrusive as.

O

Possible but unfortunately, there's no other way to run them, there's no other place to put them.

O

um We have a canopy along the front of the building and there are roof trains.

O

um They're they're a total of like seven roof trains, nine roof trains.

O

uh Two on the front: five on the side and two on the back.

O

And the reason those were added, because originally the design called for the roof to slope and drain.

O

Onto the sidewalk, which couldn't happen because it wasn't code, so we had to add the roof drains and.

O

The ones on the on the addition, the five on the addition we could run in the edition, no problem.

O

um The ones on the front of the building we had to drain into the ground in the front of the building.

O

Because the drain pipe runs basically under the addition and to the back of the building and then.

O

Back into the building, we couldn't run the drain in the finished basement areas of the building.

O

From the front, through the building itself, so that was the only way we could make it work without.

O

Going you know it'd be we're putting a pitched roof on that pitched it to.

H

A common drain where you could carry it out of sight into the subsurface.

O

Actually, that's that that doesn't meet the code to do it that way, so we couldn't do it that way.

O

But thank you, okay. What code is that anyways and you can't have a roof draining on top of.

O

The sidewalk and you can't you can't have a traditional gutter and downspouts. Either there.

O

Isn't any room for a gutter? Excuse me, michael labry, yeah. uh The original canopy was designed.

P

To shed onto the sidewalk we realized, that was not that's. What drew is referring to that we're not.

P

Allowed to just shed onto the sidewalk, so we were forced to redesign um the roof structure so that.

P

It would pitch, but because it's very long running 100 feet along the side in the pie, shape and then.

P

Wrapping around the corner, we were very limited, and so we ended up having to drain that through.

P

The use of seven liters we put as many of them inside the addition as we could the others two.

P

Of them are in the back and we held them adjacent to the posts supporting the canopy in the front. We.

P

Ended up with two that that you're discussing now, um which there was just no other way.

P

Because of the shallowness of the canopy to pitch everything into one liter, so we did.

P

The absolute best that we could aesthetically I'm all about the aesthetics of this building as far.

P

As the pvc we had discussed, converting that to out front to a piece of pipe and with a different.

P

Copper yeah like zinc, coated, copper to look more aesthetically and it wouldn't have that big, clean.

P

Out that is offensive to you, which I understand and, and I agree so but yeah I mean I would just.

A

Like to say that 99 and 44, 100th percent of the buildings in the historic district are using.

A

Copper, either leaders or downspouts whatever you want to call them, and if you can get away.

A

Using that on the front, without the clean outs, because I haven't seen any cleanups on these other.

A

Right leaders, um then I would support that we could just go on with our business. Yes, sir,.

O

Is it, would it be, except I mean the whole building? Is you know like a taupe, you need to get it. You.

J

Have to get closer to the microphone. Pardon me, the the whole building is, is a taupe white with.

O

Black accents right all the beams and the trim are painted black is it? Would it be advantageous.

O

To paint this metal downspout black instead of I don't think so, copper I mean there's no other.

O

Copper on the building, I'm not trying to stir the comments, but I would not like to I mean copper's.

J

Lovely, but if it's not part of this they're building theme and aesthetic, I don't it would.

J

Be weird to just have copper randomly scattered on weird. Yes, it's an architectural word, yeah.

A

Architecturally weird any other comments. Over here, I've commented be careful of material it'd.

H

Be nice to to come to some sort of agreement on something that that paint stuck to for some.

H

Period of time, rather than a piece of pvc plastic it just it just seems like I mean I think you know.

B

Something black is going to hide more. If you I mean, if it's kind of, if it's going to be copper,.

B

Or what it's going to stand out more, so you know, but I I understand the concern of commissioner.

B

Adams, the paint won't do to it but yeah. I noticed that also you went from a tube still.

E

Column to a you know, steel, suction, yeah, right, um that's obvious right, I'm not sure.

O

What you're talking about, I don't recall any. You have tube steel square, tube steel posts.

E

Their eye forms and you're going to a just a steel section, w section right, correct. Yes,.

E

What, if you enclose these and and then close the liters within them, because, right now to me it's.

E

Kind of a mismatch you have columns, you have leaders and I'm not sure how that's going to.

E

Look so we obviously we entertained that was our. We would have loved to have made that work.

O

Unfortunately, the way the steel structure is built, you would have to have uh the pipe come.

O

Down through the soffit then over into the web of the column, the post then down, and then it should.

O

You wrap it. You'd have to go into that and then go through down to the bottom, but before it it it.

O

Would have to go out at the bottom and then down because of the way the structure is, is constructed.

O

um The the base of the post of that column that that web column is only like three inches below.

O

Grade so if you, if you're following me, the the pipe would actually have to stick out beyond the.

O

Building, mr chairman, uh beyond? Yes, that we uh pull this from the order that we've been working on the.

H

Consent degree order and uh give the applicant uh some time to work out a agreement. We're not.

H

Their architect and we're stumbling here trying to put a band-aid, we could pull it out and if we.

A

Had the agreement to use um the copper with the zinc coating, for instance, now it's my.

A

Understanding that that turns gray, very gray and would certainly fit in better as far as metal goes.

A

Rather than bright copper, um is it possible to choose paint that black or choose a metal material.

J

That you can pick black or whatever the column is to make it match. Yes, yes, absolutely. We would.

O

Functionally what we would do is use the zinc coated, copper and paint it black.

J

Okay, I'm sorry I I that was. I interrupted your your motion. I would like to second that motion.

J

Yeah, okay, so all those in favor we're pulling this out we're going to vote on this one right now. Well,.

E

I would ask for I: I don't want to vote. No, I would ask for a continuation, because I'm not convinced.

E

That this is well thought out. I mean we're sitting here, going copper on the nose absolutely, and I.

E

Think that's where you were leading. That's that's what I'd like to see happen me too.

A

Okay, so we'll uh we have a motion to pull this out. uh We need to amend that motion to.

A

Bring it up next month, I would think, may I suggest an amendment I I would suggest that we approve all.

D

But these issues in the front so that they can continue with their work and that they come back.

D

Yeah, I don't want to stop them and they come back with the detail for the front solution.

A

That's even better, even better right. How do we vote on that? What do we vote.

J

He approves the amendment. I approve the amendment okay vote.

B

Say all in favor? Okay, all right! So if we got a second, everything is all copacetic and everything.

A

All those in favor aye opposed there you go. Thank you. Thank you all right. That was easy.

C

South street, all right, so our next administrative approval is at 28 south street. This is for an ac.

C

Condenser, um it is um it's hard to tell by this photo, but it is sort of at the rear.

C

Of the structure it it goes in between sort of an l at the rear of the house.

C

Applicant, we have somebody here, dana joy from joy's hvac representing the styles, so on the.

Q

House it is kind of an odd shape in their yard, so from south street. The clients prefer to have.

Q

It on that, like a v where the dot is seeing it from south street. Now they have the back.

Q

Of the house that's available, but all of the neighbors backyards border that whole.

Q

Backyard, so they all look into their backyard, so they figured it'd, be less obtrusive to keep.

Q

It on the side of the house, I mean it's a mitsubishi and where you know it's narrow,.

Q

And they're open to a screening option that you guys want in front of it whether it be.

Q

Landscaping, bush or, however, they're fine with that, so it's the the only line hide.

Q

Is the back of the house which would be painting the same color as the house? Okay, serve that day.

A

um Thank you very much any other questions or comments about this. So when, when you say the.

H

Side of the house, uh the house in general has a gable end that uh yeah it's a gable on that side.

Q

Where the v is like, if you're standing on south street, that is the gable side, and I was yeah and.

H

I was looking in and the fence that goes along the property line looks like their fence. Is applicants.

Q

Fence yeah um it it cuts pretty close to the back corner of the house proper. That piece of the house.

H

In the front- and that's the spot that you want to put this in the back corner yeah towards that.

Q

Fence yeah we're going to push it as far back as we can. It seems to me, and I recognize that.

H

As they go further and further back, they get closer to other people's houses, but it seems.

H

To me that there's a an l off the back of the house uh that provides a little bit of a notch.

H

Correct and there's a fence, their fence, which is, I would say at least four feet. High passes right by.

H

That it seems, like that'd, be a the best location of all for cutting down noise, uh public access.

H

From the street and the neighbors will never see it because it gets so tight there on the fences.

H

Again taller than your unit yeah, like I said they, they gave me two options of what they're looking.

Q

For so their preference was that corner that you can see from south street, but they're fine, we're.

Q

Going around the back, they just put an addition on that back, so the picture you guys have is when I.

Q

Took home before they finished that edition, so it is a little bit smaller back there, but it's.

Q

Not like I said they can go in the back: they they wanted to run the side, but I'll put it all back. It.

Q

Doesn't matter to me, you know, their only complaint was that the neighbors might complain that they.

Q

Can see it from the second story window what it I did not do any triangulation, but I'd say pretty.

H

Hard to see it, it's really tight on the fence line. The next question, of course, is if they have.

H

Screen or not some, no, I don't think the screening there's, mr chairman, I think that it really doesn't.

H

Even require screening because it's so tight there, but the question I have is: do they need to go to.

H

Play uh cba right, so um it would depend on one of the two options. So I think what you're asking is.

C

If they do it closer to the south street corner that could potentially need zba approval. If it's.

C

Tucked in that yeah, if we're out back and we're farther away from the property line, then we're not.

Q

Gonna either that's exactly if we're in the corner. I did advise them that you know we're very tight.

Q

That's like seven feet and I think the it's five from the property line for an events or condenses.

Q

Or anything like that, so it yes, that back that corner is tight, it just barely. You know it, but out.

Q

Back I agree for south street. You won't be able to see it at all. So it's really just the neighbors.

Q

In the back of the property, but it's no different than looking at anything else in their backyard. So.

A

But you have agreed to the the back yeah, I'm fine from our standpoint, yeah yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

R

Great yeah all right, moving on um to number seven, uh which would be four rock street.

C

So this um a proposal was before us about a year or two ago um the applicant um received.

C

Approval to replace a number of windows- it's a condominium. I think it's about four units.

C

um And they have, since um they've been sort of going. You know as time allows.

C

Them and they've run into just a couple of issues that have sort of changed.

C

um Change their projectory, so what they would like to do is move away from the.

C

Original application, which was a combination of new windows and restoring some of the windows.

C

um The new windows um have been installed in unit three.

C

um And they are going to keep going with some of the other units as time allows them. However, what.

C

They would like to do is request administrative approval for um changes to windows due to the.

C

Condition of one of them, so it sounds like there's a one or two windows that are maybe.

C

Past the point of restoration, they would like to have those approved as green mountain windows.

A

Comments here, questions comments.

A

A

I think you could go on then, okay um moving forward, we are down to number eight, which is.

C

320 union street um this proposal is for um repair of an existing retaining wall and then.

C

Sort of extend that retaining wall and to do some other landscaping features as well on the.

C

Property so there's a site plan of where the work will be done and, as you can see, they're.

C

Going to repair the existing in, yellow and then add on, which would be shown in the red.

C

And they have an existing wall and then the new proposed wall. So it is a little bit.

C

Different they're, going from a slate to a granite, topper and brick, where there was a stone veneer.

D

Sorry so the brick is becoming the stone veneer or uh excuse.

C

Me I think I got that backwards. Margo, sorry um yeah, so the existing was the.

C

Slate and the brick the proposes the granite with the stone veneer.

C

And hi, my name is shannon alther from tms architects and I just wanted to correct you and.

S

You picked it up that we're replacing the brick and then going with a real stone veneer product.

C

Any uh further questions on that.

C

Okay, we'll move on to number nine, which is 459 islington street.

C

um And so this applicant is seeking um approval.

C

um It's the installation of a mural, so it is, I suppose, technically artwork. It is not necessarily.

C

A sign, but they did want the hcc's feedback, at least on massing scale, that sort of thing.

C

Here's the proposed wall at the liars bench and there is the actual mural itself.

A

So so warren jewett appearing on the side of a brewery I didn't realize she was so trendy. She was.

A

She was the little owl. I believe she was go.

A

Sonic vinyl siding it is thank you very much. I didn't think they would try and paint it on.

A

Vinyl it's a panel that is installed. I understand yeah.

C

Any further questions on that, certainly an improvement or a bike wall. I'm sorry.

C

um Okay, we'll skip down our next one will be number 13. That's 361, islington street.

C

And they are coming back for the proposed siding.

T

hmm How are you I'm jeff dyer, the contractor on the uh on the job deciding I have a sample of it.

T

um It's pretty cool, it's recycled rice halls, 100 made in america. You can it's basically acts like.

T

Pvc, it looks like wood stain, it paint it. um This is unfinished. This has been staying for about a.

T

Month and sitting in the sun hasn't faded a bit. um So I just brought this to show you guys target.

D

Isaac is that the only material we're proving tonight? Yes, it's just the siding material. Exactly.

C

Yep, um if anyone has, we were going to use it under the canopy, as well um as a like, a pergola material.

T

So um they make it in many, not just ship lab. I make one buying corner beads and all that stuff.

A

So this latest iteration, what is this building going to be now is this? Is it still a.

U

Little bagel shop, nothing's nothing's changed just telling you what we're putting on the siding. No.

A

That's not what I well. I was just wondering for my own personal. You know when people say what's.

A

Going in there- and I say well, let's see it was a restaurant, it was um laundromat, it was yeah yeah.

A

It was like a donut that is this um hold up to moisture. uh It has pretty much the same moisture.

T

Repellency as exec does it has virtually all the same qualities as azek, even on the cut side, where.

J

It looks a little porous uh yeah, the cut side will be, it goes into a corner like a j channel corner.

T

um So it'll be covered. um It is very from what I understand: they've been using it in germany for.

T

About 30 years, okay, um it's only been in america in the states for about five so, um but they had no.

T

Problems with it, okay, so is it surface nailed? How are you going to attach it uh we're going.

T

To strapping on the on the concrete and it's nailed into the end of this traffic behind the.

T

Reveal so you won't actually see the new one. It's going to be nailed into the white black.

H

Tongue portion of it, yep; okay, not on the not on the finished surface, nope gotcha, very behind her.

E

Very modern, very cool yep, so any other questions. Thank you very much. Thank you. Sample foreign.

T

Yeah, it's called acre and it's by a company named modern mill, so acre yeah. Thank you.

C

All right and our last administrative approval for the evening will be 179, pleasant street.

C

um This project has been before the board um a couple of times. Anyway, there are just.

C

A few field changes that they would like to have approved started off. The first would be.

C

The slate roof is just a very, very slight um difference from what was previously approved.

C

It's going from a chimera slate. The proposed is a vermont's late. The original color was.

C

Spanish black, the new color, is north country black. So you can see a few slight differences.

C

And do we have or is there anyone that would maybe like to speak to these changes.

V

uh Good evening david calkins, I'm the general contractor, uh I did bring a full a full piece.

V

Of slate just to clarify sizing and uh the reveal it's a 12 by 18 8 inch reveal so.

V

I'll pass this around and any questions, I guess the only thing I would say is.

V

um The initial contractor we went with had specked out the spanish.

V

Black being the most, in his opinion, the most comparable to munson block.

V

Through further research and some issues with that contractor, we came to the uh north country.

V

Is actually a better replacement for munson black and it's? It is uh quarried in canada and vermont.

V

So we feel we've got a better product more uh in kind with what was originally on the mansion.

W

I'm sorry carla goodnight from cj architects. The size is noted on the application, because I.

W

Guess there may have been confusion on that. It's a little shy all right and then so there are two.

C

Other um just slight modifications as well: um they both are on the rear of of the structure.

C

um The first um being the chimney um just being shifted four feet toward.

C

The backyard and then the patio um is just being shifted, um and that would be.

C

um Away from uh slightly away from the adjacent property lines.

C

And you can see um where you can see all of the approved and then the proposed changes.

C

And any further questions on this one.

I

Okay, that's great! So I guess that's it. Everybody.

A

Hold the ones out that are controversial, we've put one off, and um so I'm looking for a motion.

H

This chimney movement. We approved the uh uh whole group that we have left. Yes,.

J

Maybe, as I can enumerate them, because I know that I'll second it because I know.

J

That we have some stipulations for some of them yeah. Yes, he has some stipulation.

C

So number one three walker street: we had a stipulation that door number one be chosen.

C

um And then 333 state we ended up pulling that out for its own separate vote, so we won't count that.

C

um 621 islington street we stipulated that the applicant would use one of our pre-approved.

C

um Screening options for the ac condensers, we pulled 147 congress out for further discussion.

C

20 number 5 28th state street south street- excuse me that was approved, as was for rock.

C

Street number: three: I'm number seven uh number 830 union street number, 9 459 islington street.

C

And then, lastly, 361 islington street and 179 pleasant street, just a small correction of.

A

147 congress, we did give approval for changes on the side and we're waiting for the front plan to.

A

Come in front of us there after they rework it a bit. Is that right, yeah? Okay? um So all those.

A

In favor, say aye aye aye against, so we have the administrative approval stuff. Thank you very much.

A

We have a certificate of approval extension.

A

This is the petition of eighth kph, llc owner for property located at 161 deer street, wherein.

A

Permission is requested for a one-year extension of the certificate of approval originally granted.

A

On october 5th 2022 to allow the demolition of the existing structure and new construction of.

A

A new mixed-use building as per plans on file in the planning department, says property is.

A

Shown on assessor map 125 as lot 17-3 lies within character, district 5 and the historic district.

J

That we approve this extension for one year, a second all right, all those in favor. So if.

A

They have their approval for an extension full business, um so it has been brought up.

A

um That we could improve our process on these public hearings by limiting our.

A

Discussion of of our opinions of the property we can, while the applicant is at the day so.

A

I think I've gotten some positive things from that, um and so what we would do is, after somebody makes.

A

The motion- everybody could explain, essentially their vote you don't have to, but you could.

A

Okay, and so that's when all the discussion would go on as far as that goes, and if you had you know.

A

Another question: I believe that we could ask the applicant to come back up and answer the question.

A

But other than that, we're just thinking that this might make things uh go a little bit smoother.

A

Hopefully so this is the petition of peter g, moore and trust. Peter g mourn trustee owner for property.

A

Located at zero mechanic street, which is also 170 mechanic street, wherein permission is requested.

A

To allow renovations to an existing structure and replace windows and pedestrian door on the.

A

Existing barn in complete exterior maintenance, as per plans on file in the planning department, said.

A

Property is shown on a cessna map 103, it's lot, 35 lies within the waterfront business and the.

A

Historic districts who is here to present this uh good evening and whitney I need to recuse.

A

Myself, I'm very sorry so dr dan brown recuses and got um a voter yeah. So basically, this is.

G

A little waterfront buildings been used for different things, mainly for storage, they've,.

G

Owners, oh probably close to a decade ago, they had a little ceramic studio up on the second floor.

G

Current owner just really uses it for storage and it's getting to the point where it needs.

G

Some tlc replacing you, know, corner boards that are rotten trim. The windows are in really bad shape, so.

G

Proposing to start with the windows replace with you know, roscoe single pane, true, divided lights,.

G

um Siding and corner boards- you know in kind would clapboards and.

G

Planning to use the lifespan, um which is a treated non-finger, jointed exterior pine.

G

um For corner boards and and window trim and that sort on the front elevation, the person door right.

G

Now, actually, let me go back a little bit. The the structure of this is in in pretty good strike. The.

G

The peers and things it's not ready to fall down. So at this point they are not planning to repair.

G

This and if they did at a later date, we'd probably raise it, because it's been flooded several times.

G

Over these last, you know a few years when we've been having these storms with big storm surges.

G

um So uh the front of the building we're looking at replacing just the person door.

G

Which, when it's a wooden door now, and it's with repeated flooding, um is not holding up very well.

G

So that's the one place where we're changing materials into a therma, true fiberglass, smooth.

G

Star six panel same configuration as the door that's there, but that would handle getting wet.

G

Periodically two or three times a year at this point, the garage door is working so they're. You.

G

Know going to keep that at this point right now we mainly use for storage, boat storage in the winter.

G

Time and some storage on the second floor on the rear elevation, where the little pier is there's.

G

A couple of double doors with um the groove and those need to be replaced, but they'll be replaced.

G

In kind lifespan also makes that material, so they're just going to be rebuilt in kind.

G

G

Just wanting to keep it it's a great structure, it's been there for a long long time and just.

G

Want to make so it'll stay and possibly in the future, it may get a bigger overhaul with.

G

Raising it up because of the changing tides they might have to raise mechanic street at.

G

The same time right if that ever happens, right yep and the only question I had was the front.

D

Door, the people door is going to be field painted, yes, oh it'll be definitely painted.

G

Yep, just the material is going to change too something a little more resilient for constant.

G

Any other questions and uh I missed the siding you're going to put cloudboards.

H

Back on the front of the building and on the rear of the building and the two sides, I think.

G

um Just look: are they um on the right side? It's cloudboards on the left side of.

G

Place not going to do the size. Oh okay, the cloudboards actually are not in bad shape.

G

And he's just going to replace the trim at this point. Thank you very much. Sorry. The wood shingles.

G

The wind shingles will be staying on that.

G

um As you face the building for mechanic on the left side, yeah.

A

Yeah, I'm sure you can get that black mole. It's already out, yeah yeah! um Okay! So um that's it.

A

For our questions and now we're looking, oh wait, I'm very sorry. I'm gonna have to.

A

Get this together is there anybody in the public that would like to comment on this? Please mm-hmm.

A

Calling again anybody there's nobody online okay,.

A

I'm going to close this public hearing and look for a motion.

H

Mr chairman, I'd like to move that we approve this application as presented I'll. Second, that.

H

uh It seems to me that uh it's going to preserve the not only the integrity of the district, but.

H

Also, the integrity of the building that seems to be relatively minor changes and.

H

Modifications to the building, no change of use, so I think it's pretty easy to support.

A

Yes, I I can't support a fiberglass door so close to the street in this environment.

E

So you know, given this new process, I'm stuck with you know, voting against. You are.

E

Okay, well explain the your problem with the fiberglass door.

E

Well, given this the beauty of this little wood shed, this fiberglass store will be so out of.

E

Character with with the natural wood, siding and all the rest of the wood trim and the.

E

Windows- and you know- I just don't- think it's appropriate for this little gem of a building.

E

To you know, so what what would be your recommendation or what door.

A

They said that they were going to um field paint it. You know it would be painted.

A

So uh that's what I heard.

D

I make barton's point, um I think the reason I would support switching the door.

D

Is because this ongoing issue of the flooding? Is it's not going to go away and.

D

I don't know when we're going to start lifting these structures, but when the.

D

Structures start to lift the door can be replaced with a wooden door.

H

To jump in, if you don't mind, it does sort of beg the question as to why the door is suffering and.

H

Needs to be replaced, but the overhead doors are not suffering and needed to be replaced. Also.

D

I believe I believe they said that they are suffering, but not enough. At this particular point.

E

Don't fiberglass doors really just have a fiberglass face and and on each side and.

E

Then they have a presswood core in the middle and I'm wondering if okay, this is that we have.

E

A question: actually it's an insulated door. So it's a foam with a fiberglass exterior.

G

So there's no wood in the door. I believe that there might be you know where the locks where.

G

The lock is that might be up high there yeah, where yeah. Yes, so I I just I agree with martin.

X

As well, and I'm just wondering how old is that door, how when was the last time it was replaced.

X

So it's been there a long time and I'm just wondering: wouldn't a wooden door, do pretty.

X

Well, even though it's been flooded, I understand that, but you still have the the wood on the garage.

X

Door would it would really be terrible to put a wood door back on there, just keep it maintained.

J

I'm sorry if, if we're going to do this new process, we're not really supposed to have conversation.

J

During our closed there's a difference between question answer and presentation, I believe yeah.

H

um I I guess at this stage, mr chairman, I'd like to withdraw my motion. uh I I didn't realize.

H

The sentiment for the wood door was as strong and uh I'd like to change my position on this.

H

Okay, would anybody else like to make a motion to approve.

C

Would it be more palatable if the applicant was open to using a wood.

C

Door versus it would affect my attitude towards the application.

C

Is that something I just spoke with my client, and they? I think we could do um a simpson ferdor, which.

G

Would probably hold up better than a pine door, certainly would sure be the same. Configuration.

A

Seal it up very well, okay, so now we have a change on the application to refer a door.

A

Is there a motion I'll make a motion to approve with the wood door, I'll? Second, that I would.

B

Believe it um enhances the integrity of the district as compatible surrounding materials.

A

Favor say aye aye aye against you have your approval. Thank you.

A

So you're not feeling that this is the right process. Reagan.

A

Or you're just not used to it confused or not.

J

uh It was my understanding that when we close the public hearing and have a motion on the table, it's.

J

Just us and we're not supposed to hear so you don't think we should ask, I don't know, that's a.

J

Somebody who is more familiar with robert's rules can I know it answer that for me, but I don't think.

A

It says anything in the robert rules that I have about asking the questions, but um great.

E

She could look it up. I felt trapped by this that process, just in this case, I'm not saying this will.

E

Always be the case, but I felt trapped to take a position I didn't want to take, which you know.

E

Obviously, they're willing to change so I don't it worked in the long run. You took the position yeah.

A

um All right: well, let's just continue, and if we want to have more discussions at the.

A

End, do you want to do the postponements or first or no, let's postponed here, I'm sorry.

A

Oh two, two fourth street yeah yeah, just in case and there's one at the end. Thank you.

A

Okay, before we get started on our public hearings, new business, we have two to postpone.

A

Number five request to postpone: petition of 202 court street property group llc for property.

A

Located at 202 court street, wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to.

A

An existing structure install hvac condensers with fencing and roof mounted solar panels as per plans.

A

On file in the planning department, said, property is shown on assessor map 116 and slot 35 and lies.

A

Within character, district 4-l1 in historic districts also, we have a request to postpone.

A

Work session yeah, that's requested by john galt owner for property located at 14 market square.

A

Wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure.

A

Add a curbed, rooftop edition and dormers as per plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map 107 and lot. 29 lies within character, district 5, downtown.

A

Overlay and historic districts so could I have a motion on that so moved all those in favor, hi, okay,.

A

Let me get myself back together here. We are under new business.

A

Petition of rihanna del llewellyn owner for property located at 503 state street unit, 3.

A

Wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure? Add a new.

A

Sliding door on the rear side of the structure as per plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map 126. It's lot, 15-3 lies within character, district.

A

4-L1 and historic districts so who is here to present this hi, I'm rhianna llewellyn welcome.

Y

um Yep, so basically we want to add another point of egress to this unit. I just purchased it. It's.

Y

Owner occupied and there's just this unused backspace that is currently in disrepair, it.

Y

Needs a lot of love back there, and I think this is going to do a lot for that space.

Y

It's not visible from state street nor islington, because there is that big. I think it's a horizon.

Y

What is it the big verizon building? um It's actually. Next to that that I think it's.

D

um 60 plus community yeah, perhaps um so you can't see it from either street and you can't.

Y

See it from either of the neighbors houses either. So it's an incredibly private space so.

Y

This will be a massive improvement and you'll see in the photo above.

Y

um There was an old heating unit that wasn't active, it was just physic will be removed.

Y

um It's just physically there, so we're also going to take the siding and we're going to match it and.

Y

Sort of put it over so we're going to use siding. That's already there we're going to make sure that.

Y

It's all power washed and cleaned and sort of patch that spot. So that's our our hope. I just.

D

Said one question: certainly um rihanna did you consider french doors versus slider it? Yes, yes,.

Y

It's a really small space back there, it's 12 by 13., um so the clearance of the doors themselves.

Y

Would have meant that we had to center it on that back wall, that back wall is 13 feet wide. Smallest.

Y

French doors are larger than the smallest sliding and as that space is super small. It's about.

Y

700 square feet total to take up the center of that longest wall would be really problematic for.

Y

The like flow of the inside of the building itself, so it was mostly about the dimension of the door.

Y

In all honesty, so it's going to be the smallest possible sliding door as well. Okay, thank you.

A

The questions comments. Yes, martin, are you changing the? uh Are you adding a unit that.

E

You need an egg restore. No, it's just a an aesthetic upgrade. It's an aesthetic upgrade.

Y

That's a very dark corner of the unit for how small it is um it it'll do a lot for the space.

E

Would you no never mind I'm good? Thank you.

A

um Okay, so I'm going to close this public hearing.

J

Oh ask I'm going to ask for would anybody in the public like to speak about this? Please.

A

Okay, now I'm going to close public hearing and uh looking for a motion.

J

That we um prove this application is presented. um Second, um this very small little building.

J

Is far away, this is certainly the side of the building is not visible from anywhere um and.

J

So I I think this will be an improvement to the unit itself without really making any impact on.

J

The area or district at all.

A

um Is that a finding effect, not really that's just something.

J

um You know you're right conservation, enhancement of property values and um has.

J

Compatibility of design with surrounding properties, yeah.

J

But maybe not that one, how about uh number four compatibility of compatibility alrighty so.

A

All those in favor say aye, aye aye, those opposed, and you have your permission. Thank you. Thank you.

A

82 86 congress street llc owner for property located at 8286 congress street wherein permission.

A

Is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure, replace the existing chestnut.

A

Street lobby entry with new door and lighting and create a new egress door as per plans on file in.

A

The planning department said, property are shown on assessor map 117 and slot 45 lies within character.

A

District five downtown overlay and the historic districts good evening. My name is richard: dejardin.

Z

From mchenry architecture, I'm the architect for the project, I'm here with marie bodie, who is the.

Z

Ceo of mcnabb properties, the owner and of the building, um so we're here before you requesting.

Z

um A lobby while we have a lobby renovation underway over at um 82 congress street this.

Z

Entrance is specifically on chestnut street. It faces towards the music hall.

Z

um With this lobby renovation, the owner wanted to reduce the number of doors going into the.

Z

Actual lobby itself, while still making a statement and to make that statement, are.

Z

Suggested path forward was a single pivot door, with two complementing side lights. These.

Z

um Side lights and the door itself will be of the martin ultimate series. And if you scroll.

Z

To the next sheet, you will see details of the marvin ultimate series, as well as the pivot.

Z

Door itself, the size of the pivot door is guided by both ada accessibility to use this pivot door.

Z

As well as restrictions with the building code as well, and the next addition to this project is the.

Z

Fire department wants the property owner to add a egress store out of the garage and just around.

Z

The corner and this alley between this property on porter street is the best location for us to.

Z

Tuck in a single door with a light, so you can actually see where you're swinging before you.

Z

Actually, exit the garage itself and we located it in a location that would be centered upon the.

Z

Windows, above as well as it will be matching the color of the windows above it as well.

Z

And the next few sheets are just more information regarding the pivot door. Selection along the chestnut street lobby.

A

So questions on this pivot door.

A

You all seem to have a pretty good idea here. I have a question: um what is the is this giant door.

J

um Like I said, maybe just the example, photograph shows that it's really giant um isn't going to.

J

Be is it going to seem quite that giant, um it's not as tall yeah that door, I believe, is closer to.

Z

I actually can't tell what the size of that door is. That's just one of marvin's stock images and.

Z

They don't necessarily tell you what the size of that door is sure, 7, foot, 10, apparently so, and.

J

um Well, that's what you're proposing and it's the bronze that finish, that you're.

J

Proposing correct so it's going to be very dark. um It's consistent with the.

Z

Rest of the window, colors and window selections on the building as well.

J

It's concerned because the others seem lighter, like the current doors seem to.

J

Be a lighter color and those doors are the ones that currently exist. Yes, those are, and then the.

J

Neighboring, I guess that I see what you mean with the windows above, but the neighboring.

J

Windows all look lighter, so that's why I was concerned. Are you talking about the window.

Z

And the smaller windows that are part of the first floor street level, yes unit, everything.

Z

Yeah, that's part of the storefront for the new noaa cafe and summer session space. So it.

Z

Kind of is a way to help differentiate the two okay um to help separate.

Z

Visually: okay, okay. That unit, I guess I mean we don't uh regulate color choice. That's fine, except.

J

When it's a permanent color, so I just wanted, I was just curious as to how the whole look was.

J

Going to end up being just to make sure it looks consistent with itself yeah it's. The intention is.

Z

For the color of the the well, the marvin stock colors is to select this particular bronze to.

Z

Be consistent with the windows in the rest of the building? Okay, not just the summer session.

Z

Ones which are meant to separate themselves as a part of a storefront retail entry, okay.

A

um Do we have some other questions, just just following what reagan said, the cheek walls.

D

On the to the right and the left are they are those painted, so we those are currently painted.

Z

um They're going to be painted, we haven't decided on any color, but um it's existing.

Z

Paneling, that's going to remain. um We just haven't figured out what color we want to put.

D

Not our not our purview, yep yeah, that one is not our program. uh Anybody over here.

A

um So would anybody in the public like to speak on this application.

A

So I'm going to close the public hearing for a motion.

A

And discussion, if needed,.

H

This chairman of the move that we approve this application has presented. I believe that.

H

It will uh maintain the special character of the building and the district. A second.

H

um I'll go further and say that I spent some time examining this uh today, just being concerned about.

H

The loss of the multiple window or multiple doors as how they related to the multiple divisions in.

H

The windows above it uh it was more of an accurate. I found that to be more of an academic problem.

H

Than a on the street standing there looking at it problem, I also found that the five panels of.

H

Glazed openings on the that represent the current set of doors did know better of job of relating.

H

To the multiple lights above it than the three lights of doors or door panels below I, I was.

H

My first reaction was bigger, is is not going to be better and- and I could not support that.

H

Argument as far as the the escape door on the side of it, I think that's the utility space.

H

In somebody's driveway, the fact that it lines up with the windows above in the building seem.

H

To me to be appropriate that it's a metal door calling very little attention to itself. I also.

H

Think is appropriate for an egress door like that. Thank you well said anybody uh who's. The second.

B

No any any other comments. No, I agree with question adams. um You know the special building.

B

My grandfather used to work there, um but yeah all righty, so uh anita, all those uh in favor, aye, aye.

A

And against there you go change your door, jim, and I have to sit down because of some entanglements.

A

All right, oh dr adams, is recusing himself and miss baffard is is voting. Are we petition of paul.

A

And holly head owners for property located at 347 maplewood avenue wherein permission.

A

Is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure rebuild the main entry pediment.

A

Pilasters trim, as originally documented as per plans on file in the planning department, said.

A

Property is shown on our sesame map 141 as lot 25 and lies within the general residence. A and.

A

The historic districts and who is here to present this good evening, I'm rob lucignan good evening.

AA

um Just seeking approval to reinstall the pediment as it existed before the homeowner removed it.

A

Can you just go over it a little bit here sure uh I don't have very clear.

AA

Photographs of how it was originally, but the homeowner was diligent in documenting.

AA

The elevations, as well as preserving some of the original parts and pieces.

A

He did um keep some of these drawings were done by um by paul yeah.

A

Anybody else have any questions, materials I'll be using.

AA

um Some pine and some sipo, because we don't use ground white, lead in our paint anymore. I.

AA

Find that using pine in certain applications that are higher exposure presents a risk of it rotting.

AA

Prematurely so I'll use sipo or a similar african mahogany for some of the moldings.

K

J

Keep my comments until later. Okay, no other question: all right: uh would anybody in the.

A

Public like this week, we don't have those photographs in our past, we're given to us.

C

um From the homeowner uh just the other day, so I figured out right back back up and start again.

D

Then so this is the there's about three or four of these original they're, not the the best quality.

C

um But they do, they do show something so, but they show us enough to so that we realize that he is.

A

Indeed, duplicating that's a good thing using the proper moldings in the proper places he has.

AA

Preserved anything that was able to be preserved when he removed it. I haven't been able to go.

AA

Through it, until we get the approval done and then I'll be accepting all of the parts yeah yeah, okay,.

A

So um nobody in the public that I asked the public.

A

Right so um let's have a motion. I move that we approve. This application is presented.

B

Second, um this certainly preserves the integrity of the district.

J

um And has relation to historic and architectural value of the existing structure. I mean I just and.

J

Personally, I just want to say I'm very glad that this project is moving forward. I think.

J

We've all been driving by this house for many years wondering when the door was going to get.

J

Fixed the surround and everything's going to get put back on so I'm very excited to.

J

See this be restored and help the um help. The street in this lovely row of historic buildings.

D

Like you said exactly what I would have said, this is, you know, dying to see this move forward.

A

And it's a good thing that they do have evidence of the original so that they realize.

A

You know where the bed moldings are supposed to go because oftentimes people have not a clue.

A

And um the the general design, the only thing that I'm wondering is hopefully.

A

That you're going to get the um surrounder not the surround, but the background would.

A

Properly placed so that this will go on to it properly, because right now that looks to me.

A

Like a plywood triangle stuck up there, which is rather awkward, um but I think it's a great thing.

A

So we have a motion. We have a second all, those in favor aye aye, any opposed.

A

Very good all right. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Mr adams is reappearing.

A

If anybody wants to take a break say the word wow.

A

Hey I've got a petition of melanie piper allison owner for property located at 236.

A

Union street, wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure.

A

Construct the second floor edition over the existing rear first floor footprint with hvac.

A

Equipment as per plans on file in the planning department said, property is shown on assessor map.

A

135 is lot, 22 lies within general, residence c and historic districts and who is here to present this.

AB

Good evening, uh I'm richard lowe, I'm representing kaplan thompson. Architects, welcome, I'm here with.

AB

Hyper alice, the owner of the property, and I have a colleague, sarah spielman, also from calvin thompson.

AB

Architects, um we were here at the previous month's work session, so this project was presumably fairly.

AB

Fresh in your mind, uh the application is for the new second floor, studio sitting above the existing.

AB

Footprint on the first floor, it's entirely within the um it's clear of the lot line: setbacks the.

AB

Original building was subject to an approval only a few years ago in 2015, and the new edition seeks.

AB

To re-use the same details, the same materials, the same roof pitch and the uh original application.

AB

uh Received support from the portsmouth advocates who who spoke on the project's behalf and um the.

AB

The proposed work uh it's about 530 square feet in total. You can see in.

AB

The orange area on the plan- it's almost all of it- is towards the back of the building.

AB

And only a small sliver is visible from the street.

AB

The project that we presented at the work session a month ago included a small rear.

AB

Deck at the back of the building or the left side on plan and that roof.

AB

Deck has been deleted and we've extended the enclosed studio to include that same space.

AB

The gable roof that we had on top of the studio building has also been shifted away from the.

AB

Street and is about the same size as the gable we presented at the work session, but has been.

AB

Moved further away from the existing gable of the dark gray street volume.

AB

So that's the only significant difference between the proposal from the work session.

AB

This is the proposal today, or I should mention we did have some exterior mechanical hvac equipment.

AB

On the side of the building that has been removed from the proposal, we have determined that it's.

AB

um The existing equipment can be modified to include the new structure, so we don't need.

AB

This new exterior equipment so we're very happy to be able to delete that.

AB

We have some material samples here that we can pass around that show the the roof color.

AB

Material and the two cladding colors we have the darker wood horizontal boards of the gabled volume.

AB

Close to the street and a second wooden material with a light gray color that will be the vertical.

AB

um The vertical wood board cladding and there's a metal sample, which is the roof color.

AB

That metal will also be the window sill material.

AB

And those details are shown later on in the drawing set.

AB

At the work session there was some discussion over the new cladding material and whether.

AB

That would be vertical or horizontal at the work session we proposed it would be new horizontal.

AB

Material because we were concerned about the alignment with the existing vertical boards.

AB

We've determined that the best approach is actually to.

AB

For the gray secondary material to be vertical, but we will remove the existing boards.

AB

On the lower floor, so that the new material can be continuous.

AB

And not have the issue of mismatched horizontal joints or mismatched vertical panel alignment.

AB

As before, we have fiberglass windows.

AB

In building and two of which will be removed as part of the new work, those two windows will be.

AB

Reused and they are the only ones which will be visible from the street, so the two windows.

AB

That are shown on those street elevations and three-dimensional views already in the project.

AB

The other new windows which are at the rear of the building will be.

AB

Windows with similar material and design.

S

Okay, well, would you like some questions or are you.

A

Done with your yes, I think that would be good.

A

So is anybody going to open this up questions I don't know I have. I just want to be sure.

D

I'm reading the changes correctly so when you enclose the open deck uh in the back, you did so.

D

By shifting the peaked, the dish second story edition back so that now there's a flat roof.

D

Section it appears at least from this angle that I'm looking at it correct between the.

D

The original original building on the street and the new edition in the back yes at the.

AB

Work session, the proposal did have a flat roof between the existing gable and the new.

AB

Gable- and there was some discussion amongst the commission as to whether that felt right at.

AB

It's even better more space between the two roof areas would be better for practical reasons, but.

AB

It also, we believe, helps maintain the predominance of the street volume by not having the new edition.

AB

With a gable so close to the the existing roof, yet not touching so there's more space between the two.

AB

Roof walls and from the street the new gable is even less prominent because it's pushed further.

AB

Back, thank you, and is there a reason due to the interior that there are no windows on that side.

D

Of the edition, yes, the new edition is relatively small. It's essentially a single room which you can.

AB

See from the floor plans, it's a studio, building and south on this property is on the diagonal.

AB

From the back garden, so that blank wall is towards the north of a single room which has better.

AB

Daylight opportunities on the other side, see where you're going and with the narrow space between.

AB

Neighbors buildings, we would end up with windows facing the neighbor's windows got it. Thank you.

A

Alrighty, so I'm going to ask: is there anybody in the public that would like to speak on this proposal.

A

No nobody online! So I'm going to close public hearing and look for a motion.

E

I'll make a motion to approve, as presented.

E

I think this edition is in keeping with the.

E

Existing house um and uh it's a very special house and I think the addition.

E

um Matches that quality and and the craftsmanship of a of a very 21st century modern home.

E

So um I believe that it is enhances the I should. Let me let me see here.

E

We go, uh it preserves the integrity of the district and is consistent.

E

It is compatible it's compatible. The design is compatible with the surrounding properties.

J

Sorry that I missed the work session that we had on this, but I was around for the original approval.

J

Of this building and um was very excited about it, because it is a very contemporary interpretation.

J

Of the traditional forms that are in the neighborhood around us and with this addition.

J

um I see that it fits in with the the building it fits in with the massing of of the neighborhood.

J

You've got a large variety of massing options and the buildings all around and so.

J

I you know it's consistent with its specific design. I can approve this.

H

I'm gonna have a difficulty supporting this application uh in as much as your, I believe.

H

You're correct in uh suggesting that it, the auditions proposed, has a relationship to the.

H

Building that's there now. They think the architect has certainly accomplished that.

H

um And there's no question that the previously approved building has a mass that is without.

H

Great deal of study very similar to the mass of other, we'll say the turn of the century. New.

H

Englander shapes that we see around, but at the end, that's all that it has that that the uh the roof.

H

Roof structure: the pitch of the of the entry cover the punched openings of the windows, the.

H

Vertical siding, there's almost no part of this building that has any relationship whatsoever.

H

To the special and endearing character of the neighborhood that it's in is building is, is.

H

A thumb in the eye of the architecture of this city, which we are supposed to preserve, that the.

H

Historic district commission was historic, district was established to preserve the.

H

Architectural and historic resources of the city that this does not and do anything but spit act.

H

And uh I think that the it doesn't have the same kind of any kind of things that provide texture.

H

It's got mass, there's no question and the academic part of of me, which is very small, uh understands.

H

The point of mass- but I don't see anything else there and this addition to me just contributes.

H

To that laugh, so I'm I'm really cold on this. Thank you very much. You're welcome. um I almost would.

A

Say I would have hoped that you could have toned it down slightly. Oh I'm very sorry, but you know.

A

So uh just yes, so I I hear what you're saying david um and I was not on the board when the.

D

New building the first original building was approved. I'm not sure how I would have voted.

D

In that particular situation, but since this is the building that we have today, I feel that I need to.

D

Relate my or base my decision on the building that exists today versus what we theoretically.

D

Lost or should have done in the past, so um this is not given that I'm gonna support this.

A

Anybody else: okay, um all those in favors those opposed opposed, and you.

A

Have your edition, thank you very much. Thank you.

A

So we postponed court street and it's number six petition of strawberry bank incorporated.

A

Owner for property, located at 65 washington street, the pen hollow house wherein permission.

A

Is requested to allow changes to a previously approved design, lift the existing structure to.

A

Build new below grade foundation, the existing foundation will be reused from the ground up.

A

As per plans on filing the planning department,.

A

Said property are shown on assessor map. 104 is lot, 7 lies within the mixed research office.

A

And historic districts, hello, who is here to present this good evening, roddy roland director.

AC

Of facilities in environmental sustainability for strawberry bank welcome, this will be a very.

AC

Familiar application to you, because you already approved it once back here. I just want to stress.

AC

That our goal, when we got original approval, was to restore the pen halo house to the habs photos.

AC

And that goal has not changed, but the path we are taking to get there has changed. um So that's why.

AC

We're back here: um why has that path? Changed to this building is suffering greatly from sea level.

AC

Rise, if any of you have heard my lectures and presentations, you know that the site of strawberry.

AC

Bank is plagued with sea level rise issues and penhello house, unfortunately, is pretty much at.

AC

Ground zero, it's seeing groundwater intrusion into the basement has for decades. It is seeing surface.

AC

Water flooding coming in off of washington street that five inch rain that we had a few weeks ago.

AC

Saw three feet of water in the basement in about 15 minutes, so these are really serious, serious.

AC

Problems that we have to address right now and so we've been having very difficult conversations as.

AC

A historic preservation institution over the last months trying to determine how we need.

AC

To adapt this historic structure so that we can preserve it for the decades to come.

AC

um And- and you know how far we have to go- we really don't want to remove original material.

AC

But we realize that um we just need to do that in order to protect this. The structure.

AC

Going forward, and certainly we're not alone and I'm sure you're going to see lots and lots of.

AC

Applications like this one going forward so I'm joined today with um members of the restoration.

AC

Team uh from preservation, timber, framers and from placeworks and we're just going to walk.

AC

You through the changes that are part of this is the application that we actually presented.

AC

To you and was approved before there are some subtle changes, especially obviously.

AC

To the foundation, our proposal is to remove the existing foundation, lift the building, remove it.

AC

And put in a concrete, wet proof foundation as part of our water management system, so.

AC

You want to talk a little bit about the foundation process. If you want me to.

AD

Hi everyone, I'm aaron sturgis with preservation, timber, framing we've worked in portsmouth for.

AD

Years and years we are proposing to lift this building up and extract the rubble stone below.

AD

Grade and replace it with a concrete foundation with a full drainage plan that includes interior.

AD

And exterior drainage and a lot of gravel in the basement, basically filling the basement within.

AD

Two feet of the of the undercarriage and creating a space where water is not let in by any means. As.

AD

Much as it is now because it comes in every rainstorm, but in the event of water passing.

AD

Through our drainage or through, the concrete foundation would be able to seep up and then.

AD

Seep back out, we know water has a insidious impact on this building and will continue to.

AD

We're trying to mitigate it as much as possible. The issue before us is the rubble stone and the.

AD

um Organics inside the foundation is so permeable that we can't just fix the foundation because it.

AD

Will remain too permeable for the long-term use of the building, so what we've proposed is to lift.

AD

The building carefully, we use a building lifter to do that. Someone that's an expert in the field.

AD

We've done many buildings with them. Some of you may remember. We lifted the coach house at moffett.

AD

Lad house years ago, this these guys are better than us, so we use them exclusively. They will lift.

AD

The building up very peacefully, all three chimneys and all we will excavate the existing foundation.

AD

Save all of the cap stones for reuse, the bricks in many parts of the building are so saturated.

AD

That they literally come apart, so we can't use a lot of the bricks, so we're going to do an in-kind.

AD

Main based, brick, more and brick, some of you are probably familiar with that. It's a harder ceramic.

AD

It doesn't take on water the same way that the soft brick does, but it has the similar look same.

AD

Size, so we consider that in kind in this case the capstones are granite cap stones, all along the.

AD

Front they actually turn the corner as well. Those will come out they're numbered. They go right back.

AD

Where they were before and the foundation looks exactly as it did before, the work was done. So you.

AD

Don't see any concrete anywhere, but you and you don't see any of the drainage as well. All of it.

AD

Is either brick or granite above grade? So to that extent we are doing we are doing climate.

AD

Change mitigation here this is not. This is for the long term of this building. We just.

AD

Dave just got out of the cellar last week: we've replaced sills and undercarriage. It had all gone.

AD

It had literally rotted out from inside out so we've replaced that in kind which is going to.

AD

Make the lift even easier? Typically, when we lift a building like this, we don't change out any sills.

AD

Until we come back down on a level foundation in this case, the the rot was so extensive that.

AD

We replaced the sills so we're literally lifting from the bottom of the sills, and this house will.

AD

Be will sit peacefully up in the air for a little while it's going to look different down there.

AD

um But um believe me, it'll come back down safely, nice flat level and it's the best job. We can do.

AD

Given the circumstance we have at strawberry bank- and I know it goes beyond strawberry bank- we all.

AD

Know that it does so, we feel very strongly and in fact we took some precedent from the history.

AD

Underwater conference that that was sponsored earlier this year- I don't know if any of you were.

AD

Able to attend that conference, but it was, it was groundbreaking, um that's kind of a pun. I apologize.

AD

um But there's extensive work to do we're doing the best job we can and we're going to save the.

AD

Penn hollow house and I'm happy to take other questions. Okay, do we happily have any questions.

H

Will the is your plan to put the front steps back where it was because there's no granite.

H

Capstone in that area, correct yeah granted steps go back. I just have a quick question for mr surges.

E

Is is it common to have to change out a sill, um so being? Oh, my gosh? Yes, it's 100 year, maintenance.

AD

Whether it needs it or not, okay, so it's like changing at a slight roof. It's pretty common.

E

Yeah I mean changing. Sills is very, very common for any any timber frame, building, yeah yeah and I mean.

AD

The extent of damage that we see at penthouse- it's not it's, not uh uncommon. We see this level.

AD

Of damage all the time and we replace cells and joyce and kind all the time right, yep keep in.

AC

Mind we're measuring relative humidity levels in our basements between 80 and 90 percent, for six.

AC

Months out of the year, yeah wood just doesn't do well. Yeah I mean part of the issue. Is the amount.

AD

Of water coming in and staying in because of the organics that are in in the basement, you.

AD

Know, mud percolates through that foundation. So that's why we're going to the extent that we're.

AD

Going to keep that organic out and also provide a an escape route for the water, because right.

AD

Now, there's no escape route, it just comes in and then hopefully filters out and it does filter out.

AD

It takes about 48 hours and that is a continuous dry cycle and that's that's. What kills the wood is.

E

There, a species of wood, you typically we're doing in-kind eastern white pine sills, because we are.

AD

Managing the water very differently, and we are also protecting that wood, so we're not using an.

AD

Exotic species there's no reason to it, wouldn't be appropriate for a museum anyway. So all of our wood.

AD

Is in kind natural, you know: species eastern white, pine, eastern white oak, whatever we find in the.

AD

House we replace in kind not only in the species but the size of that timber as well. I see yeah.

AD

Okay, a culture work on uh at the ipswich house: uh oh yeah, tv yep. Thank you, yeah you're welcome.

H

Mr roland, um when was this house moved there, eight uh 1868. 62., so when it was moved there.

H

The the canoe bridge was gone. Correct. Do you do do you have any idea where the canoe bridge was I'm.

H

Just wondering about the the gr, the well yeah, the source of the water yeah there's some interesting.

AC

Hypothesis, um we did find what we believe might be remnants of that structure when they did the.

AC

Stormwater sewer separation in 2013, the city did um there's also a uh unique and fascinating.

AC

Cobble feature that we found archaeologically that runs the entire length of the north side.

AC

Of penhallow and continues past that to the small red shed that's behind penhalla and we're not real.

AC

Sure what that is uh it's about, uh I think it's about five feet below grade, but our one theory.

AC

Is that it may actually be a spillway that when they place this building, they wanted to direct.

AC

The water away from it and manage the water just like we're trying to do today, who knows it could.

AC

Be something else, but it's an interesting feature. We have an archaeologist watching the entire site.

AC

Yeah, this building's funded by l-chip and the national endowment for the humanities and.

AC

um So we went through section 106 review as part of the process, so.

A

um If everybody else is done, I'd like to ask you a question: you've gone to this great length, you.

A

Have this design you, you have the building movers there they've supported the structure peacefully.

A

Why aren't you adding a few inches or six inches? Why aren't you lifting this structure now you.

A

Could bring your shelf up on your concrete foundation and and bring the existing stone.

A

Up and of course, the brick, you ask a very good question. I understand why you're not doing it now.

AC

um So storybank is a historic preservation organization. First and then we have this climate.

AC

Change adaptation over here and what we've seen over the last decade or so are those two coming.

AC

Together and where they meet is going to depend on who you are and what your mission is right. So.

AC

When I think about groundwater intrusion, we're going to put a new foundation in and we're going.

AC

To deal with that, that way, when we're talking about surface water issues- and we talk about.

AC

The fema flood projections we're talking about the level of the river that is two blocks away.

AC

And we've got all of puddle dock that entire field to figure out what to do, how to manage that water.

AC

As it encroaches on our site, we also have we know the city of portsmouth is already going to raise.

AC

The sea wall- that's part of the new master plan for prescott park. What's that going to do the.

AC

Fema flood projections. We know that someday the city is going to have to look at that storm drain.

AC

System and figure out how to make it work more efficiently, more frequently, during times of of.

AC

Astronomical hot tides and storm surge: what's that going to do to the fema flood projection so rather.

AC

Than take this big leap and raise the building, we're going to do it this way and see how all.

AC

These other pieces fit in, but this foundation- and I have it from the engineer- will be capable.

AC

Of taking a building that has been out, that needs to be elevated, if that has to happen down the road.

AC

And not only are we making sure it has to do that, but the national endowment for the humanities made.

AC

Us swear that we could elevate this building because they believe we should elevate it and.

AC

Said that we will be not qualified for any fema flood money because we're not raising it so we're.

AC

Taking a gamble, but this is a long-term process and we're trying to gently ease the historic.

AC

Preservation and the climate change adaptation. I understand that I'm just thinking that you.

A

You're at the point the buildings up, I just can't see- I mean I understand what you're saying I also.

A

Understand that water always finds the place that you know where it was and and puddle dock was.

A

Obviously, a small pond and I've got a feeling that the water is just going to come into puddle dock.

A

But I'm not an engineer, I don't know that but like even if it seeps under uh you know the puddle dock.

A

Will be flooded, I mean some of the projections are 12 inches two feet. You know it's just.

A

um Just a question: I have that's all I understand and we have to look at this also. We have houses.

A

On, on the other end of the south end uh getting closer to newcastle that are very low.

A

And they're going to have to come up and it's something that you know we have to look at too.

A

And absolutely I will say what aaron mentioned: the keeping history above water conference. This.

AC

Year was very telling because for the first time we heard from the very extreme, like the.

AC

House of seven gables may actually physically relocate all of their historic buildings to.

AC

Higher ground because they have no choice, they might that's on the table for them. That's the.

AC

Extreme right there we've been approached by professors at unh. Why aren't you picking up.

AC

Strawberry bank and moving it to somewhere else, but I mean it takes all of our buildings out of.

AC

Context it would, you know it would destroy who we are, so we take smaller steps. So if you lifted.

A

Them up, it would give you a hundred years or something that's enough for me. Okay, thank you.

A

Public is there anybody in the public that would like to speak on this application? Thank you.

A

Okay, so I'm looking for a motion I'll move that we approve this application as presented.

J

um It certainly preserves the integrity of the district and has compatibility of innovative.

J

Technologies by surrounding properties, I'm just so thankful that you guys have all come together.

J

To find a solution for this, because there are so many different pathways that we could take as you.

J

Explained- and um you know, uh as always, strawberry bank has very thoughtful about what they're doing.

J

With all of their properties- and so I thank you for coming up with a solution that will.

J

Totally preserve the building in its context and its setting, it won't be raised up it'll.

J

Look just like it always had, but we'll hopefully preserve the building for a longer period of time.

B

No, I just appreciate all your efforts um you know. Obviously this is one of.

B

The gems of portsmouth or you know our museum or living museum, so I.

B

Just appreciate all your efforts and your expertise and thank you.

A

Okay, so um all those in favor say aye aye any opposed, lift away.

A

A

I'm gonna check and be sure it's peaceful.

A

A

Oh we're on work sessions, so I believe we could go down to the table now and do our work sessions or.

A

Should we take a break, we're all heading down to the I'm going to do it quickly? [music] Our time.

H

Well, this is going to become a lot less fun with learning. Why not.

A

He's running away run away. Okay, let me read this so this is a work session requested by c daniel.

A

Frond is that right, uh frind close enough? Fine, okay, like freud, but with an end hiding in there.

A

Front: okay for property located at 37 prospect street, wherein permission is requested to allow.

A

New construction to an existing structure add separate, first and second floor additions as.

A

Per plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 141 as lot 16.

A

And lies within general residence, a and historic districts. So please present uh uh well, uh it's.

AE

Been a few months since the last time I was here and uh left with instructions to create a more.

AE

Urban plan for the carport uh and what I have uh conjured uh together with my designer bob cook,.

AE

Is a uh a reconfiguration of the carport still pulling back from the front of the building as.

AE

Conceded in the the previous work session, but with the um uh removing a portion of the translucence.

AE

Replacing that with roof shingles that are similar to art or exactly like the main house.

AE

And uh introduction of polycarbonate openings coverings uh directly above the existing windows.

C

There are a couple of additional sheets that they had provided with myself.

C

um If you just want to take a look at those as well.

AE

There is one drawing this drawing not this drawing this uh has uh nor this one.

AE

uh This is the rendering showing the polycarbonate openings over the existing windows, allowing light.

AE

Into those windows, but still removing the translucence over the majority of the carport.

A

So it's a shingled roof and then you have a sheet of polycarbonate material which is like lexan or.

A

Something that you're going to actually shingle over it a little bit to. Hopefully it won't leak.

A

Like skylights yeah, it's like a skylight, but it's not, but still allowing light to enter that space.

AE

And reconfiguring the carport, the carport is in desperate need of replacement, yeah.

A

Questions here, reagan.

J

H

David, I I I think that it's been pretty clear so far. Yes, I I I I think I can see most everything.

H

I've uh this is kind of like uh imaginary car skylights. They they're just going to.

H

Be sort of water resistant uh I mean, there's no curbs around them. There's no flashings, no yeah.

H

They're gonna lead yeah, I mean angeline would be better. You get.

H

A little light through it- and at least it's got gutters to carry some of the water away.

D

May I ask a question so I'm not sure I'm reading the renderings correctly, this is still a roof with.

D

A transom piece and supports at the front corner and attached to the building at the back corner.

D

How is the, how is the roof supported? uh The roof is supported at uh header at the uh the main house.

AE

uh And then there is um supporting posts uh at the existing uh concrete wall front and back corners.

D

Of the projecting roof of the the roof, yes, the the to their the points furthest from the house.

D

Are there specifications on what those are or are they just four by four? Are they pillars uh a six by six.

J

And those are that's mostly. The changes that we've seen since we saw you last is just dealing with.

J

Carport, uh that is uh those are the changes, uh and then I had conversation with the inspection.

AE

Department on uh regarding uh the shed dormer over the barn and what was conceded in our last.

AE

Work session was to limit the shed dormer to the new construction, which would render that.

AE

Upstairs build uh uh space uninhabitable so uh in order to provide an egress window, that is not.

AE

Open to a stairwell, I need that shed dormer over that one-third of the uh the barn and.

AE

I plan to cover up those purlings anyway. I can preserve those purlings and integrate them.

AE

Creatively, I don't know how I'll do that at this point, but certainly.

AE

Not just tossing them they're half round pearlings, certainly.

A

Other questions.

A

Do you have a question dave you look? No. I don't think I have a question.

H

Thank you very much for your concern. uh I don't think I have a question.

A

I mean I'm looking at the um the dormer appears to be much larger than you're saying it is it's.

A

You said it's one-third delivers to celebration. Maybe it's it's! This elevation at most accurate.

A

This elevation right here uh this this is almost half of the structure of the dorm. The.

AF

No, mr chairman, if you were there on site, don't you you remember that there was it wasn't on site? Oh.

H

Hence the rub um so believe that there's a one bay addition to the front of the old barn.

H

Already already a one-story edition, taking that thing a little bit closer to the street than the.

H

Actual structure of the old barn, so the when you cover a third of the roof of the existing.

H

Barn, you actually get a structure, a roof structure, that's covering what looks to be half of the roof.

AE

Of the building okay, so this this structure, yeah, is uh broken up into uh three sections.

AE

Three, so there's: uh uh what do you call them a bent? uh If I I'm stating it correctly, there's.

AE

One two three four vents, and so this shed dormer would take up this area uh and not.

AE

Not alter the the frame other than removing the purlins.

K

Okay, thank you.

AE

That's where I get the one-third.

A

Well, I didn't understand it. Anybody else here.

J

Finally, moving forward to yeah towards well hey, you know there are steps in life.

AE

This is one of them. We believe me. We have seen many projects take a lot longer so.

J

It's thought I know it's being thoughtfully done, so I appreciate it.

A

I guess I don't quite understand how the six by six posts are going to be worked integrated into.

A

um You know this roof that I assume the roof is probably going to be made out of two by sixes. I.

A

It just seems, um I don't know, the posts seem heavy or the roof is light or.

A

I I guess what I I would ask that you and mr cook come up with a detail of the actual.

A

Carport, the frame yeah, the frame yeah, if it's all going to be framed out of rough, that would.

A

Be wonderful that would make a lot of sense actually, um especially where your house is, and.

A

You know it's a little. It was actually out kind of out in the country at one time.

A

So that that's what I would ask- and uh that would be my preference to to keep it as.

AE

Symbolically close to the the structure itself and not just a a standard off the shelf, lumber yeah.

A

All righty, so um if you oh, is there anybody in the public that would like to speak.

A

About this proposal.

A

Neighbors coming out, none against. I do have plenty of fans that have been watching my progress.

AE

All righty, so um if I could just make a general statement, I.

D

This is um for a lay person. This is architecturally difficult to envision.

D

From these drawings- um and I know that this is all very preliminary- and eventually we might.

D

Have some renderings that make it a little easier for me to imagine what what we've got going on.

D

Here so I'm not adding a lot and I'm not asking a lot because I'm still having a difficult time.

D

uh Visualizing from what I saw at the sidewalk and and what I'm seeing here.

D

But that's more of my problem than it is yours, but I also continue to have concerns about the.

D

Little barn and the fragility of the age of the structure, how special it is and and.

D

What you're planning to do to it? We have seen recently to a court street where the amount of.

D

Changes that was proposed ended up, basically ending in the structure being demolished and.

D

I would hate to see that happen here. So would I but the reason, I'm not you know putting up.

D

Massive signals here is because this is so preliminary and there's so much left for.

D

Your architect, to tell us, in terms of the engineering and and you know what kind of.

D

Foundation are you going to put under? Are you not going to put under there's so much left that this.

D

Seems more conceptual to me, the foundation around that section goes down four feet.

D

All the stuff that I just I just don't know if I have, we have the answers for.

D

And I don't know the right questions to ask. I'm just in perspective. That's important.

AE

Yeah- and the purpose here am I correct- is the aesthetic of the exactly the structure.

A

And the the uh the mode of construction is the inspection department. Am I correct? Well.

A

Yeah true, except for the carport, are we going to see the framing, because it seems that everything.

A

Is going to be out in the open? Well, uh you won't see the framing from the outside. I I.

AE

Intend to use the barn board that is existing and and replace that in kind. So, for instance,.

A

um Frequently, when you have a shed edition like this, you will have a horizontal piece.

A

That comes level across and maybe there's an infill from that to the angle of the roof.

AE

That's not there across the front. Yes, uh there is uh so you just have it open. You just have a.

A

Just open the simplest of carport loose, what's been described in the drawings that we've got.

H

Before us, mr chairman, I think you're absolutely correct. Well the drawing that's up on the screen.

B

That has no what's that guy yeah, that has an infill right, yeah uh and I've gone back and.

AE

Forth with uh with bob cook about the uh infill and what that looks like, and I have trouble.

AE

Seeing that myself, because it's not existing in the current structure, there is no infill in the.

AE

uh And I don't have that that was important new tonight um I mean we frequently see that.

A

It because otherwise this thing looks like it's a, I don't know it's just floating there. It's a.

A

You know made out of toothpicks or something even though you're going to use 6x6 yeah.

A

It just doesn't seem to have structural integrity without that driving. That's just me.

A

um So I think also what margot might have been saying. If I can try to say it sure is if.

A

He could, you know, have a perspective instead of looking at this head-on boom.

A

Bam that he could make a drawing that shows, maybe from the right hand, side.

A

uh At an angle, what all of these disparate additions and the barn are all going to look like.

A

For instance, if you were coming around the corner and you were on your street and driving it down.

A

We frequently usually that sort of thing is submitted to us. It's not even that we have.

A

To ask for it that people will show us, even if you use a photograph and he could hand draw a.

J

Sketch on the photographs to give us an idea, so this is uh the existing structure right and so.

AE

um That would be simplifying, I mean you, can you can kind of see there that it's a real cluster.

AE

Mess yeah uh yeah, of course, the perspective and and come up with a drawing that shows the.

A

New structure and everything else, I think it would help everybody understand what this is.

A

Indeed, going to finish and be looking like, um so that's it all right! Well, thank you. Yep.

AE

You want to uh talk to isaac and come back for public hearing. I don't know what do we think.

D

Are we continuing the work session? uh I have a bad taste in the last time, not when not in this.

AE

Commission, but when I came for hearing before it was clear that I had presented my plans, so I don't.

AE

Know if I need another work session to I mean totally up to you. It really is what we've done.

J

Before too is a work session, slash public hearing where you can start off with a work session.

J

Iron out any little questions that still might be hanging out there and then have your action actual.

J

Okay for prudence sake, I'd say that would be more the angle that I'd like to go very good. You.

A

Need your windows and you know I can re-specify that, yes, all right. Thank you very much. Thank you.

J

So I moved I move clues this work session. Second,.

A

Thank you alrighty. So we've got petition of 129 state street llc owner for property.

A

Located at 129 state street, where permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to.

A

An existing structure, modifications to windows, skylight door, canopy, railing design, size and.

A

Locations on file in the planning department.

AF

107.47 lies within character, district four.

AF

Hey thank you very much for listening to me. I don't like to read this stuff either. I did.

AF

Listen so please introduce yourself, howard, spivat, the architect for 129th state street, all right.

AF

So just continuing our discussion from last time. um I think it may be easiest to go to.

AF

Page seven, which I think the big changes that we made were on chase street in response to.

AF

The feedback about the windows and proportions of the windows and seeing the clear story from.

AF

Sushi street, if you, when you get to page seven, is up on the uh in the submission.

AF

Above the garage and all the windows now on the second floor and the same proportions, the windows.

AF

On the historic structure is slightly water and slightly taller. We now have three windows above.

AF

The garage one center with each garage door and once entered in between them we've taken the.

AF

Windows up to the underside of the fascia board, which matches the how two houses across the street.

AF

So that we've taken zones so we've used the same proportion as the historic structure.

AF

They're slightly larger and we've taken the same relationship as across the street to the station.

AF

We've installed we've proposing four columns on the porch. We've also lowered the ports of.

AF

The fascia board and beam that goes across the columns lines up with the facial board.

AF

Acro above the garage doors, and that way you do not see the clear story from the street. It's in.

AF

Behind underneath the slope group, you now have four columns that will start off approximately.

AF

Eight inches and taper to six inches, creating the framing of the two sides and framing the doors.

AF

When we change the proportion of the windows, it became slightly narrower and we've also.

AF

Taken them to the front side, so now the doors are centered on the facade on top and bottom.

AF

And then you've also had the same. You have the wider. The boards in between.

AF

The thickness of the boys in between the three windows, the windows up on top- are.

AF

The same as what we did last time where we took the windows all the way across.

AF

And then, if we go to page eight and nine you've seen the details of the solarium, which we've.

AF

Providing two options on page: eight: the options where we take the geometry of the square windows.

AF

Up to become the railing in the glass railing, the three doors are the same width of the three.

AF

Windows on the front, the three three feet wide, so they have the same proportions. The windows facing.

AF

G street and on page nine is an alternate for railing. Where would be a metal post coming down.

AF

The skylight we want to discuss in the next meeting because we want to.

AF

Prepare a mock-up on the roof so that everyone can go see the mock-up and.

AF

See if for real, so since it is a big issue, it was once again special class. So we want.

AF

To see show you the mock-up, so today we'd like to get your feedback on the.

AF

Changes we made to the windows on chase street and the options on the uh solarium.

AF

We're hoping that we think we've gotten it closer to the following that balance between you and the.

AF

Historic feel hope for you. People thought so great between the 21st century, the 19th century.

A

So do we have questions here? Just jump right in seems to have gotten.

I

Taller, no, we haven't changed that you may be seeing the chimney day.

D

um We haven't changed that okay, this exact that hasn't changed from what was approved.

B

In the changes of solarium, do they include the.

B

um The west elevation windows on the side, those are they're still.

AF

There within the wood frame so they're, not steel they're. We had changed that last time.

AF

um That would be on page can change 10? Yes, so they they're within a wood frame, so that you see the.

AF

Wood wall and everything now comes through, as you presented last time, punched windows.

X

I, like the glazing, elevation, the southern television. I like that better.

X

um Than what we approved back in may 22. delirium and we're we're open, I mean we're bit buys met. We.

AF

Prepare the railing on page eight, but we're also be comfortable with derailing on page enough.

J

Show us the railing on page eight is: is it glass? Is it it's still? It's the same. Steel.

AF

Ammonium is the low brought up with glass, so it looks like windows. It looks like numbers.

AF

It looks like a sorry: it looked like a glass and steel railing.

B

I really will have glass in it if we option eight, the one on option on page eight has.

AF

uh Steel frames, a steel piece along the top and then glass, but it's made.

J

Windows, ashes eventually made to look like a fixed glass panel, yeah.

AF

It's not a sash, well yeah like like there's a stash that has been put into everything.

J

It's one way you could look. Well, that's what the drawing looks like, but it's I know the ammonia is.

AF

Different, no, the emerging detail above would be this matching little ninja below, right and and.

E

The railing will have glass panels on it, yes and then it's that open, no, no inoperable glass panels.

A

Well, you have fixed glass panels down below too the clear story.

AF

Windows are fixed in the in the panels. At the end, there's three.

AF

Doors and then fixed panel and lots of on this side there's six pounds.

A

I personally um prefer the h9 option, as you knew I would.

A

For the rail and I appreciate the fact that you've got those windows.

A

um In wood frames, the horizontal windows, yes, which apparently you had the last time. Yes,.

AF

And also the last time, we've made three doors on the second floor, with doors.

A

And I certainly appreciate your um the windows now on the back street are.

A

You know much better. The shape is the proportions of other ways. The way that the rest of the city is.

A

Actually so the the we took the proportion of the wind on on the historic house in largely slip, yeah.

J

um Could I ask about the proposed third floor window on the north elevation.

AF

Page, I'm sorry page seven, which one the one over the corner, yeah.

J

The glass are so so much smaller, so I don't know if, if you had thought about putting just.

J

Like a two over two there in order to keep the we'd be very happy to do it to.

B

Keep the vertical rectangles yeah keep the proportions going of the lights, so is that.

A

The one that's a fireproof, no, that's, not fair performance. That's around the corner.

AF

That window would be. That would be happy to do that.

E

Should we hold off talking about the uh the skylights at the peak? Yes, because what I'd like.

AF

To do is, I think, I believe, you're not going to be able to see them, but I want to improve everybody.

AF

Is this mock-up going to be on the building? Yes, all right, so we would have to have a work.

A

Session scheduled with uh isaac, yeah and we'll be able to yeah sidewalk, so we'd all.

H

Be there together, yeah and we can be, and we can arrange that I'd be there for it.

A

It was a long time ago, but we, the the north church, replacement roof. They actually, you know shingled.

A

A piece of plywood and headed up there on the roof for us to see from across the street on.

A

The pleasant street that was quite a mock-up, I remember when we had the applicant uh put.

H

Cardboard boxes up on the roof of the old customs building, to knock up where the air conditioning.

H

Handlers were uh it, it was a good exercise, it almost always is yeah, and I think I hate to.

AF

Bring new york up in new york city, if you do an edition of rooftop edition, you have to do them up.

AF

They go. Can I jump in mr chairman, I just say it's one thing, but discolor surgery.

AF

For interrupting we're going to actually do a mock-up with the skylight and the shingles and.

AF

How you'll see the plane of the stream goes in relationship to this car light on the roof.

A

Okay, yes, david very good, um I I want to say I I appreciate the formality that you're implying with.

H

The on the proposed rear elevation- this is page 7 of 19 18.. um On the first floor with the the three.

H

Units next to each other, rather than that country cottage, uh look that we frequently think of with.

H

The door in the middle flanking with windows, uh it allows you to push the columns the round, columns.

H

Off to the sides it it makes it it kind of special. I think I think that's a really successful move.

H

On your part, there um I, like, mr chairman, also uh going to page nine. uh I appreciate second.

H

Floor balcony railings, looking like second floor balcony railings, I I'm a terrible traditionalist.

H

But I think that's kind of what we expect to see, particularly on a house that no one scratches.

H

Their head and wonders whether that's an old house or not that's why we gave you two options:.

H

So good all good on that and we're not looking at skylights and so I'm having a hell of a night here.

K

I think it's a unique way to uh present the frank on chase street, with the double columns.

K

To either side, I think it's a it's something special okay and they are round columns.

B

I'll say I also support the railing option on on page nine.

X

Are you expecting that cool we had to try yeah yeah, so lauren always ask what.

A

Do you think of railing on page? I think I could go either way. I I know it's just.

E

The the uh we calling it conservatory solarium and it it looks like a solarium. I I have no.

E

Problem with it, I I can support it either way, but I can see how the and you can see how.

A

All righty so uh now I'm going to ask the members of the public I'm sitting at our.

A

Table would you introduce yourself to maybe you need the microphone? My name is mark body yeah.

R

Yeah friends of sheep, sheep street association.

R

I have to say that and I'll represent 99 of the residents on sheep street, the only ones we haven't.

R

Been able to talk with are the residents of sarah street bakery in those apartments that live there.

R

I am pleased with some of these changes.

R

But I'm very concerned about the massing of this, and I want to remind members of this committee.

R

And if this plan is approved, this will become the largest single residential structure on.

R

State and chief street, the largest with any home. And when we talk about marrying all with the new.

R

The commission's responsibility is to incorporate these revisions, so they meet the character so.

R

It's not a melding all with new, it is. Does it fit in with the character of that neighborhood.

R

You will see from your site review and I would ask you to refresh your memory by looking at.

R

The plans that were presented before this committee regarding 37 chief street, which.

R

Is a tiny little yellow house that was once owned by the prescott sisters.

R

The owner of that home attempted to presented, in addition, in the back of this little matchbook,.

R

Of a house in this committee decided that its mass was too big for that log.

R

And so when you go on the sidewalk you'll be able to not only view that but also view on that.

R

Building itself, the the additions that have taken place of the past as their outliner of the brick.

R

But be able to have a sense of scale in how large this new edition will be.

R

I'm not sure that they're accurately represented in these photos. The color photos that I saw online.

R

With respect to how close it will be to the stream, but um I recall it's about five feet.

R

And, and I know that mr spivak maintains that the turning radius to get into those garages will be.

R

At it will be adequate, that's something you might want to discuss with another city department.

R

Mr chairman, if I'm late, I would I would ask that you have some patients regarding our comments.

R

Because the garages relate to the messing, that's the principal fuss of my comments regarding the.

R

Size of the building and it uh it is critically important, as you consider the plans overall and.

R

I'm mentioning this today because we know that ultimately, we're going to be coming from for.

R

The public hearing and at that point it's going to be too late to address some of these issues.

R

You know the owner of this property through his own decisions, decided to change his mind.

R

And I would encourage this commission to take a fresh look as well with a new set of eyes and.

R

Say: okay, a lot has transpired. It's been a lot of construction there. The homeowners have been.

R

Various concerns: are they valid they're like them to be taken into consideration.

R

Still have windows on the side of the building that essentially.

R

Look like correctional a correctional facility on the side of the building. If you look at page.

R

2 of 18., the only change that I can detect if they've been separated with a little bit of oil.

R

um And the comment that was made at the previous meeting by david, as you see from.

R

Our side of the building, there are three windows up there and the rest is all blind.

R

Well, the previous edition they require that they had. I don't want to call the false windows, but.

R

Shutters that were there, so you don't see this massive mass of building and this building is.

R

Going to be considerably taller than that, I'm not quite sure. We know how what the height is.

R

Or the distance of many other measurements regarding the lot.

R

So with that, I'm going to include our comments and hopefully, uh okay, you'll, consider the massey.

R

Encourage them to reduce the mastering it it wouldn't take much. Thank you.

D

Could you put some specifics to your comments about the mass? Is it five feet? Two big too.

D

Tall and could you could you tell us a little bit about what you would consider acceptable.

D

From your point of view, or from your neighbor's point of view, that it'd be x amount further back.

D

From the street x amount taller or shorter, could you help us sure what would make you comfortable.

R

Historically, there was always an attachment to that building and we have some old photographs.

R

Of the result, very small attachment the there was considerable concerns voiced over the.

R

Last edition that was done over massing, this is probably three maybe four times bigger than that.

R

You know members change perspectives chains, but that's history.

R

We object to the size, both in utilizing virtually every inch of that lot.

R

And what it is doing is it's appending this new structure to his an historical structure.

R

And typically, the new edition should be subservient to the historical building.

R

This is flipped, there's no mistaking going on chief street that this will be a brand new.

R

Building and certainly when you look at the glass, the glass cellar enters that it's quite modern.

R

So it might not appear that if they change the uh the front on chief street, the deck the railing.

R

Rather, you'll know it from chief street. What we're saying is it's too big, too tall and it.

R

I think some of these refinements are bringing it closer with or it needs to be, but not entirely.

R

Does that help? uh No, because what I was asking was, could you give us specifics? It's.

D

Five, you you like to see it five feet. Smaller, you know from the chief street five feet this.

D

Way this way you you have said it's too big, and I understand that, but how much too big, because.

D

I don't think the I don't think the architect can respond to the neighbor's concerns if, if.

D

He doesn't get more specificity with regard to how much is too big. I would like to see.

R

You know you know what I have to check with some of the members been speaking for myself.

R

uh I think there should be more room from the road than there is now in the massing, so you.

R

Do that proportionally, that'll just create an a more pleasant look as you go down the street.

R

It won't be as if you come down that street that'll be the biggest structure in the street.

R

What closest to the road? Okay, okay and the immediate right after it heading towards.

R

Downtown those are all open, lots. Yeah, I mean what would you think if they came here and said we want.

R

To build, we want to duplicate that, provided they had an underground parking. Would you permit it.

R

I suppose if they were all brick and they looked so make it smaller closer to the road, not as high.

R

Don't know why they need all that height and.

R

That that would be that that would be my perspective. Give it some air give the.

R

Building some air around it. Okay, thank you. So um could I ask if anybody else would like to speak.

W

Good evening marie bode 121 state street, the director butter, I think, to.

W

um My perspective on margot's question is: if you look at page number four and you see all of the.

W

Additions that are on the third and fourth floor, those are where the massing really is excessive. I.

W

Concur with mark and our neighbors about the sheep street pinch point. I am thrilled that there'll.

W

Finally, be a sitewalk and that you all be able to revisit the the outlines of what was previously.

W

There I concur with mark as well that you know the developer owner architect all had a fresh light to.

W

Start over after all of this work that you all have put in that we have come every meeting to.

W

Address I'm appalled again that we still don't have any heights. We don't have any dimensions so.

W

The gentleman that spoke before in this the first work session, you are basically looking at similar.

W

Information here it doesn't give you detail and yet you're making piecemeal decisions on selecting.

W

A railing or selecting the spacing of windows you're not seeing the project in its totality.

W

And to the chairs position about, we should take this up with the planning board or the other their.

W

Departments, you are the first point of defense for us. If you approve this, then they move forward. If.

W

You revise and make suggestions and alter and reconsider as they have done. Then then we get.

W

To preserve our neighborhood, so you know I'm page four, I don't. I don't like anything from the third.

W

And fourth floor up on page five, and I think um john david excuse me question about the height.

W

I do think it's getting taller if you start to look at picture by picture.

W

If that's not true, mr spivec, then why don't you have any of these on here? You've been working on.

W

This now for months, why aren't there more details? Why do you focus only on the glass that you want.

W

And the toto window for escaping, I mean with all do seriousness I I don't think you're advancing.

W

To the requirements that you're supposed to be, I also believe that you had him implied that.

W

You would be bringing examples of the windows and or other materials at this meeting, so we.

W

Wasted another month, we're going to waste another month, we're going to live with what we have next.

W

Door you've made one change that I can see that significant that addresses the keen's concern.

W

Which is about the even the overhang um to their particular lot? um But I I don't see that you all.

W

Have what you need to make decisions based on this presentation again this evening, so the nature of.

D

A work session and if we, if we talk a little bit about the nature of a work session versus.

B

We're not voting on this. This isn't a hearing. I understand that, but every advancement, that's.

W

Really, having a work session on the details that the applicant asked us to look at, but.

W

There's 18 pages here, so we're not voting. How do you not look at it in totality? That's what.

W

I don't understand he didn't say we're coming to a work session just to address.

W

um The railing of the am I incorrect. That's what we are looking at tonight.

W

And who's, who gets to specify that the architect as he presents so we don't look at in totality. We.

W

Look at it in piecemeal, looking at the railings and we're looking at the new configuration of the.

A

Windows on chief street, and why aren't we looking at the skylights that we've been looking at and.

W

Looking at looking at the skylights he's actually going to be making up something for us to look at.

A

Next month, there's an awful lot going on with this building. I agree with you and so how many months.

W

Are we going to have to have them and yelling at us is not helping at this point? I'm sorry.

A

I don't believe I'm yelling at you and I think, you've acted inappropriately at times telling.

W

Us that we shouldn't this the gym. This is public comment and I'm, let me you know, I think I think.

A

For three minutes, essentially, most public boards allow people in the public hearings to speak for.

A

Three minutes now: I've, let everybody continue on. You have talked extensively uh concerningness and.

R

I understand that I'm I'm sorry that this that thank you for being. I am disrupting the cadence.

R

Of your meeting well, but I'm not going to refrain from voicing my views and, as chairman you, I I'm.

R

Gonna, I'm gonna request that you have a little bit more patience. This is a lot of patience, no.

R

Mr chairman, if I might, this applicant has had plenty of time to voice their views. Unfortunately,.

A

With a project like this, it could go on for a year. We've had projects go on where we have any numbers.

I

I understand that I guess my question is: when are we going to discuss the massing? Well, you already.

I

Oh, I have: what about members of the board? Can they express the interview or can you know have.

A

Their opinions, eventually they can, when it comes time to vote they'll, certainly have their opinion.

E

Make a request, um since it's all about massing at this point, it's.

E

Can we get a orthographic projection, a elevation that shows the the shape street with the adjacent.

E

Buildings, uh a streetscape elevation, gray blocks and I think we can we can superimpose into revit.

AF

And what I can also do is take the approved trons with the approved dimensions and put.

AF

The dimensions on these drawings: we have not changed the envelope at all, okay, well, we've.

AF

Been doing all we've been asking to do is change the window configuration. We have not end changing.

AF

The configuration of the wood solarium into a steel solarium, the massing the heights are the.

AF

Same as what's approved in the for the next meeting, I'll be happy to have a drawing that.

AF

Shows what was approved at the heights and what we're having with the heights? We are not changing.

AF

Anything in the massing, so an elevation of the streetscape and then a site plan with greater.

E

Context and maybe a section through shape street happy to do it. Thank you. I think it'll solve a lot.

A

Thank you, martin. That's a good idea. I think the my understanding, the nisa can correct me because, when.

AF

Nick was around, I think he mentioned. I think you actually have a revit model of the street.

C

Yes, the the city has a 3d model that, if we could, I could reach out to you and we can maybe sort of.

C

Incorporate this into yes, we can work together to drop our revit motto into your revit model.

AF

And then from that we can cut sections and show it, but the thing that um is, we have not deviated.

AF

From the approved mass scene, and so I think that some members tonight actually feel that what we.

AF

Came up with is actually slightly nicer than what was originally approved if it turns into an issue.

AF

Of oh we're changing that approval, the client would just say I live with what was approved.

AF

So we're trying to make what was approved better but we're not changing the massing okay, so.

AF

um What was approved next next month, you will have um some dimensions on your structure. The.

A

Height and etc, you will have all that and you will be able to put in a 3d model into.

A

The city's website that has actually your street and all the buildings on it, and once that's in.

A

There you'll be able to move around and look at it from every which way, but I'll also document.

AF

As I said, is we'll document our what was approved and what we're proposing is the exact same masking.

AG

Jim king 123 state street just two quick comments.

AG

um The drawings still show us off at overhanging our property. Well, there's actually, no property.

AG

Line identified, so I don't know if it's over a property, but if it's within two feet the.

AG

Building department and the inspection department is not going to approve it, so plans should really.

AG

Reflect that the second thing is the renderings isaac. Could you go to um the renderings at the end.

AG

I just kind of feel like it's a little bit deceitful in the renderings that mr spivak shows.

AG

That show our building our building has windows that have green mullions and uh tan trim around it.

AG

And mr spivack represents our building as black windows, so I don't know if they're painting our.

AG

Windows, but I really think he wanted it to look like it blends with the neighborhood.

AG

No, it's an oversight and if you want us to change the rendering to show the winding.

AF

On the left, was it the original that was originally occurred, and our window looks.

AG

Just that way, your rendering does not, if you want it. Thank you. Okay,.

A

No and speak um so you're going to come back next month. Yes, what we discussed.

A

um I'm not sure if we're going to have we're going to be able to put in your skylight.

A

Request with what we what we need to see next month, but if you think we can squeeze it in.

J

Before and sightwalk can happen during, you know during the day.

AF

Let me see if I can get the time. I want to make sure when we do this and walk up. It's a really.

AF

Accurate representation of what we're doing so, um I have to work to see if we can get it done.

AF

By time, okay, but given this is, the skylight is a very important issue to everyone. I want to.

AF

Make sure everyone's comfortable okay, great all right. Thank you. Thank you to continue until next.

D

Month, in a second all, those in favor all right again, thank you for your cooperation and working.

A

Motion to adjourn second, all those in favor all right.