City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 5 Apr 2023

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From YouTube: 4.5.2023 Historic District Commission

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4.5.2023 Historic District Commission

A

All right, everyone uh welcome to the april 5th meeting of the historic district commission. I'd.

B

Like to say, the board's actions in these matters have been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature.

B

If any person believes any member of the board has a a conflict of interest, that issue should.

B

Be raised at this point or it will be deemed waived before we get started. I have a little.

B

Secret that I want to share with everyone that actually, I am indeed hard of hearing.

B

So 10 years in rock and roll and 40 years as a contractor, guess what so I I try very hard, but I.

B

I want everyone to please, you know, make an effort to say, mr chairman, when you raise your hand in.

B

That way and my head will swing in the proper direction because it's frequently doesn't so.

B

Okay, so I'm going to introduce everyone- I guess joanna landis isn't here we'll start.

B

With dr dan brown good evening, martin ryan good evening and reagan rudy good evening, excuse me.

B

um So, um oh, I've lost your name.

B

Wait a minute. I also have memory problems. What are you looking for here? Martin argo, margo, dory.

B

Good evening, nick cracknell good evening, uh counselor rich blaylock good evening mar I've.

B

Got margo doring on the other side. I'm sorry uh david adams, good evening, karen buffar good evening.

B

um So first we start off with the approval of the minute.

C

Mr chairman, should I recuse myself at this point? I was not. There move approval, uh mr chair. uh Yes,.

D

On item number five, um I guess I would ask that either um it be stated. uh The very last sentence.

D

That um I left for a prior commitment or that the the line be struck. Whichever is preferred yeah.

B

So we need to strike that line. You did not leave the meeting. I did leave the meeting because of a.

D

Previously previous commitment, but it doesn't say that so it looks like I stormed out. Okay, you did.

B

Not storm out all righty, um so we had a motion. Mr chair, I can't vote. I wasn't here either so, okay.

B

David get a motion; second, okay, all those in favor aye against all right now. Nick is time for the.

B

Administrative approvals, mr mr chairman, yes, I need to accuse myself from number six number. Six.

E

Does anyone else have uh they also have to recuse myself from that one? That's the okay, yeah yeah, all.

D

Right so mr chair uh number one for me: okay, so six and one all righty, so uh we should do those.

B

First, don't you think sure? Okay, it's 11 chief street 11 g street has been on the agenda for.

F

A few months now, I think, um hopefully, someone from the good from the property is here to maybe give.

F

Us a brief overview. There were questions when this was originally submitted about.

F

The location of the hvac system on the back of the building, I think the siding is also.

F

Part of this request to remove the vinyl siding, replace it with cedar clabards, uh architectural.

F

Asphalt, shingles are being proposed and some trim work, uh but if you could just go to the podium.

F

Did I leave anything out um and just your name for the record, uh my name is kenneth.

G

Nolan finkel, I'm here representing profile homes for uh administrative approval. As far as.

G

I'm aware of uh solely hvac location and for the removing architectural shingles, as you mentioned,.

F

So I take it, the wood siding is underneath the vinyl siding that was described in the application.

F

So it's just a replacement in kind with the vinyl being removed. um Actually don't have.

G

Any information as far as siding- that's okay, not what I'm here for today. I don't think I thought.

H

It said that I don't think there is vinyl. It just said that the the siding is in need of replacement.

H

It is okay, uh we'll keep going I'll all right, yeah, um but yeah, just just approval for uh the.

G

Architectural shingles, weird we're just replacing the ones that are in place and putting in.

G

Matching color and style for the roofs in in the neighborhood just to match.

G

um And then, as far as hvac location, uh we're installing heat pumps so that condenser location.

G

Is going to be on the back of the building um near where that parking spot is, I believe.

G

Should be it up so that window right there, just the left of the window.

G

On the brick yeah on the brick or over here over there yep, so I think this is.

F

The building with the vinyl siding according to the first page of this eventually, and it.

B

Does say it needs to be coming off: yeah, okay, so you do have some siding to take off or or.

I

It's not part of this. If you can't speak to it, no, it is, it will strike it. It's around here, yeah.

B

Part of the app sure it looks like it's part of the application in this image on the screen and.

F

It shows the property lines, but that addition that has the vinyl on it is part of your project. It is.

G

Part of the project- yes all right, so whatever the paperwork here from ken and nolan finkel is that.

F

You, yes, that's me so you've said it had vinyl on it and it's being removed. Okay back in november.

F

That was a long time ago. Okay,.

C

And the location of the a-trac unit is to the left or the right of the bulkhead.

G

um To the left and what sort of screening are you proposing screening? What kind of screening are you.

C

Proposing I don't know how to answer that question honestly. Did you plan to put anything around it to.

F

A visual barrier: uh well generally, we just have our hvac contractor.

G

Do the install on that and I they're generally aware of the codes and pull their own permits.

G

For it and yeah, it's less a code issue than the htc's design guidelines. Does it need it.

G

I mean, if there's a suggested way to do it. We will just do exactly what you guys wish.

H

I don't know that it's quite as necessary in this location. What do you think that was my thought.

C

I think it would be a kindness to the neighbors that live in a very tight that that court is very.

C

Very tight, yes, you're you're set back a little bit, but people walk past there. All the time.

C

And your machine's going to be visible and worrying. Is it more of a noise or a visual.

G

Issue both okay yep, I know there's we're planning on using the same style and size.

G

um That 13 chief street is using and we're planning on just matching that.

B

Could we uh ask some other people on the other side, yeah go ahead.

B

Or you just want to put screening on it. What do you think.

B

Anybody no well, I think, if we've, I remember that we approved screening for this. For this, the other.

H

Property on chief street. So if they're copying that can we just say to copy.

J

I don't think it's necessary.

B

um So we've got um some opinions on the screening, so essentially what it's either something you can.

B

Lift off and set to one side when the person comes and and looks at it. So it's essentially a fence.

B

Right or it could be a gate if you wanted to hinge it, so it could have one by three balusters and you.

B

Know look like a picket fence type of thing. That's one of the many screens we've approved.

I

Mr chairman, yes, can I can. I say I think I'm in agree with mr ryan.

I

um I'm thinking about this thing it this is not. Yes, it's public, and yes, indeed, people wander.

I

Through the the alleyway and to dodge the trash cans and whatnot, um but this isn't an in your.

I

Face sort of situation, nor is it something I think that's going to happen issue with the.

I

Quality of life of a next door neighbor, I don't think in the alleyway. It's going to help with the.

I

Sound and I wonder if it's just one more bit of clutter that that alleyway has to way too much of.

B

um We could we could do uh paint job. We could vote on this as a stipulation we.

B

Could vote on this first to see if we want to add this and then vote on the bill itself,.

B

I'd make that motion, mr chairman, okay, would somebody second this? Second, so what we're voting.

B

On is screening for this unit and it's about a five foot screen. All those in favor say: aye aye,.

B

All those against yes, okay! So now, um if we reach the point, as he explained.

B

Everything for I think so, okay, so all those in favor of these improvements, ai and against.

B

You have your approval. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much appreciate it.

G

All right, our next application is 303 pleasant street, which is a request.

F

um To replace the rear entry stairs uh on washington street we're gonna do numbers.

H

First, though, yeah sorry, which is also so both of those both of those who's out, no no, we just have.

E

To be happy you're out because of the sign: okay, okay, so 303 pleasant, number, six is a proposal.

F

To put a historic plaque on the building, and no yes: well, not exactly hi um mary thomas actually.

K

Representing a committee of folks um citywide, who are trying to get a historic plaque program.

K

Sort of reinvigorated for it's- it's not just me. I had to fill up the application by.

K

Putting my name and address in so that it would be accepted, but this is uh I'm just here representing.

F

District-Wide, it's a blanket approval. You're seeking! Yes, will you be putting one on your.

F

Your home as an initial pilot or or not, I don't know, okay, um are we all on number six here? Yes,.

F

It's on the screen: this is the proposed side. Okay, um what happened to the approval we gave for these.

B

Signs about two or three years, five years ago, it was five years ago. Yes, sir. um I have an example of.

K

The sort of uh style and design that was approved at that time, this new one is very similar to that.

K

But somewhat different, we just thought it would be prudent to ask permission basically.

F

Barry what was the main reason, the the previous approval, wasn't going to work moving forward.

K

I think nick that it just got um it's not really a matter of that it kind of got bogged down.

K

In um I think, the method of ordering them was not as straightforward as, as was hoped and hoped it.

K

Was going to be- um and I think an online portal for ordering was never really constructed as.

K

Well, as, sadly, the gentleman who was going to be fabricating them, sadly passed away.

K

um In I think 2020, so it just kind of never got off the ground and we're kind of trying.

K

To get this started back up um in part, because this year the city is celebrating it's it's 40th.

K

um In celebration, events- and we thought we could maybe tie in with that as well.

F

Thank you sure does I have an example here.

B

Yes, sir awesome, if you could take it down there, okay.

A

Thank you all right.

B

F

Why don't you go live? What am I supposed to say this is this is what I want.

F

Cedar, yes yeah, so the one that's on the screen has a lot more text on it is this: what's the.

K

Correct those are mock-ups that are just uh so, we are still um kind of we're still working together.

K

With the portsmouth new hampshire 400th, as well as the portsmouth historical society, slash portsmouth.

K

Advocates to um use those the um their portsmouth 400s tagline, as well as the name of the advocates.

K

Because they are going to be the ones who are going to be vetting the research that residents.

K

Can do to in order to um order one of these um plus I just I just simply didn't get that far.

B

So um I would like to speak concerning this. What you have just passed around is fully acceptable.

B

To me, but I feel that especially since we're you know in eight months from now, it won't be.

B

The 400th anniversary, I'm just thinking that these signs are going to last for 30 years.

B

Hopefully, that's high density particle board. Well, it's red cedar, cedar, actually very good.

K

So these signs are going to last a long time and my personal opinion is there's.

B

Way too much text on here, I'm sorry that history lights our way and the portsmouth advocates and.

B

You know that's my opinion. I understand. May I address your concern for a second.

K

A couple of folks on our committee: well we're getting the health of the portsmouth new hampshire.

K

400Th folks and they have put forward the idea or offered to they have a sponsor. Who would like to.

K

Help underwrite some of the costs of fabricating these. We do understand that it's already april.

K

There are only um you know, eight more months left in the calendar year, but we are hoping.

K

That aft, and to continue this program into the future and those after this year will not have.

K

The portsmouth 400 tagline on the bottom, it will most likely just say, portsmouth advocates.

K

And um so that's really only for the remainder of this calendar year and then moving forward.

K

They will not have that any longer. So I've spoken out of turn. Would anybody else like to.

L

um I think these are wonderful. um You know I mean obviously you know very happy to celebrate.

L

Our history and very excited about the 400th this year, um I am gonna, have to agree with.

L

The chair a little bit this, the bottom just seem it's going to be like an advertisement.

L

um You know it's putting some a group's name on all these buildings all over the place. I.

L

Know that you guys are doing these plaques, but if someone else we want to do that. You know then.

L

um Like the historical formation, I am very supportive of, but just the names of.

L

um Of an organization on that I don't know if I would be as supportive.

K

I'm just the name of the portsmouth advocates was along the bottom because again.

K

um You know we feel responsible for providing accurate historical information and we are.

K

We're joining with them who do the vetting of the residence research, so it's it's almost a way to we.

L

Want to give you credit, but I just I don't know if putting credit on every single one is appropriate.

L

You know for the um because we want to celebrate the history. I agree um but yeah that's just yeah.

L

Anybody else, yes, I would just say that the uh the dates uh the 2023. I understand why it's there, but.

D

It does make them dated, unlike this one, which is just designating the owner of the house, the.

D

23 is going to look old and 28. also agree. um The offer of sort of underwriting the fabrication of.

K

Them is really kind of contingent upon having those that wording and the dates. uh So I mean.

K

That's yeah there. I can support this, so they they are initiating this. They they do great work. They.

J

Do you know there's this is their and it's so small you're not going to see it till you walk.

J

Up to it, so I have no problems. It actually balance out the sign, I think so.

C

Okay, I agree with martin, I think it uh I think that it, um it marks a moment in history and the.

C

Moment a house is built or a tree is planted, it marks a moment in time and it would differentiate.

C

From you know another time it would people would look back and know exactly when that.

C

Plaque had been put on and I'm not sure we don't usually have control.

C

Over what some it says on a sign, we have control over the shape and so on.

B

Nick, what do you think about? Do we have control over the side.

F

I don't know, I I think it's different in this case. um [music] This is a little different than just an.

F

Individual sign, so I think I think it's worth making a decision and giving a recommendation.

F

Back to the applicants, mr chairman, you say that I'm proud of the commission for having this level.

I

Of concern over things, two things that come to my mind is it's not anyway protective speech or.

I

Anything uh and- and it doesn't say coca-cola on it, so I mean there's, there's much of that- that I.

I

Think is relatively understood and if there was a a spiritual connection, they are certainly kindred.

I

Spirits of the historic district commissions, uh but at the same time I I I'm really enjoying.

I

The spirited conversation- I really don't know how to even think about this.

L

um It'll clear from a concert, it's you know and I'm glad it doesn't say coca-cola and, of course, with advocates has been wonderful.

L

My only concern is that, if the historical society you know, came and wanted to do,.

L

Their own signs and then another historical group wanted to do it. That's my only concern.

L

But if it's not a concern of this board, then I will not get in that way. Well, just beside the.

K

Deeply so midi under the aegis of the historical society, just yeah, yeah and and to be honest, we've.

K

Gotten very good feedback both on the ship design, as well as the the history lights. Our way from.

K

Residents but I understand yeah yeah- it's I'm kind of thinking out loud here. Yes, absolutely.

I

Mr chairman, may I save it done at the moment. I'm thinking that the appropriate way of looking at.

I

This thing is by allowing them to put whatever text they want. They can secure a fair amount of.

I

Funding which will allow the the possibility of more of these signs being placed on our historic.

I

Buildings than not- and I think on the basis of that I have now decided- I I think I'm accepting.

I

Of their text as proposed, and yes, sir, that was it- that was excuse me, sorry that that was one.

K

Of our goals to make, um because I think it was a barrier, I'm assuming that there's also a chance.

I

That you would donate these to some members of the commission that lived in the history.

K

Perhaps maybe we can talk later um but yeah we we, you know, I think this was proposed for.

K

um Sort of as a pilot program just for the south end in the past, and we really do want to take this.

K

City-Wide I have a representative here from the citywide neighborhood committee, with with.

K

Me who's on our who's on our group and um and we are really trying to keep the costs down as much.

K

As possible to, as you said, to hopefully make it more accessible for for all the folks in the city.

F

Do you have an estimate of cost? uh I think it's it's difficult to say at this point. Unfortunately,.

K

um With the fundraise the under no it's really not it's not it's really, almost not a fundraiser.

K

There are a lot of folks who are on board because they feel strongly.

K

That this would be a wonderful program. A lot of people are donating, their time, their expertise.

K

um And so forth, I it will probably if I had to guess, be upwards of a hundred dollars. That's great.

K

um But again we're trying to understand while at the same time we are trying to offer a superior.

K

Product, it is a five quarter, cedar, it's hand painted. There is no vinyl lettering.

K

Etc, history lights: our way is that um from the 400. Yes, sir,.

K

Yeah and again we got. We got very good feedback from.

K

That particular line, but we're gonna, you know, folks, you know as subjective. I guess I think.

L

We've gone over it I'll make a motion to approve second, okay, all those in favor say aye aye against.

B

Nay, so stay right there. Oh me again, I'll have to get some more supporting documents hold on okay.

F

Oh okay, so 303 pleasant street, which is mary's house, uh is the next item and this was the.

F

Request to remove and replace the rear stairs along washington street. I think there were some.

F

Questions about how the bulkhead uh access was going to also the as far as railings go right.

K

Correction, yes, and I apologize for not being able to attend um last month's meeting in march.

K

um And I'm wondering if you all have in front of you, the renderings that do show.

M

Which sorry it was not those it was emailed to us. This was today yeah isaac, emailed them.

H

To us today, oh sorry, that's my fault. No, that's fine! You guys all have it.

F

Okay, they'll start and I'll look for it. Okay, I just want to know if they have it.

K

um I would find it probably easier to answer questions but I'll I'll try to get started.

K

You know these. The stairs, as previously stated, are in a very bad state of.

K

Of disrepair really um they're exposed to the weather, they've they've had moisture problems.

K

uh They are not original to the building, I'm not sure how they are attached to the building.

K

um So we are just trying to replace as much in kind as possible, while also you know.

K

Building up the structure, the the issue seems to be.

K

The concern about the steps actually going down into the basement from grade level.

K

So I and okay. So yes and there's like a wooden hatch or I guess a cover.

K

um Covering up that space right now,.

K

We don't think that the actual, let's call it a well space, is.

K

Going to get that much larger than it is right now it may have to grow by.

K

Even if it grew by about two feet in length, I think it would maintain the same.

K

Depth really- and so we are really trying to.

K

um Main sort of maintain the look that is there and hope to just replace the somewhat smaller.

K

Hatch door: it's not even really a door, it's a cover. I guess, with a slightly larger one.

K

um I I provided these renderings that have the railings on the two sides, because that.

K

Was my understanding that you kind of wanted to see that in case the inspection department.

K

Said to us look, you know this is not going to work. You have to have railings.

K

um I think I agree with mr adams that it looks odd at the very least.

K

um So we're trying to avoid that um and hope to put again another just another cover on it.

K

We for probably 10 years, have been trying to figure out a way.

K

To improve the these stairs, the health of the stairs um you thought about, you know just having.

K

This stairs going up to the back door and then maybe having another one going off to the side.

K

Putting something else around another side of the building like a regular bulkhead, but those.

K

Options really never were appealing, they seem to cause more issues than not than solve issues.

K

Oh god, I'm not sure um I have a question. Yes, so you are planning to put back on a cover. Absolutely.

H

Okay, yes, I think one of the concerns we had last time was that it was it looked as though it was.

H

Just going to be a giant hole understanding out there, a completely understood makes me feel a lot.

H

Better that there's going to be some sort of definitely um one of the major issues in the.

K

Past, of course, was that it that this space, when it was uncovered, acted like a nice waterfall to have.

K

um Stuff in there, the the uh contractor is going to put a drain at the bottom as well, um and there.

K

Will definitely cover we very rarely use this uh door and stairs and door to access the basement.

K

um So it would, it would remain covered most of the time, and the cover would be similar to what we see.

H

Just a yeah, I think that's attractive, it is, it is a tongue and groove thing. It's a very low profile.

K

You can still, you know, there's a there's a window in that battened door um it. It provides some light.

K

Into the basement, you know- and there is a landing in that vestibule- that's kind of under the stairs.

K

And again another step down into the basement, so I think the amount of rise and run that that.

K

Need to be attained with the new construction will still allow for just one of those cover.

K

Like that we really like I was gonna say I mean look for me. That's fine! If you know.

H

You're, just gonna do a new one, basically the same design as what we see that I'm fine with.

H

It and I wouldn't think that you would need railings if that's the case, so I also hope not.

K

um But I think you know we'll work with the inspection department and and hopefully try.

K

To achieve that there it is yeah yeah. Finally, oh sorry, yeah any other questions or comments. This is.

B

Okay, administrative approval was pretty all right. um I'd like a motion, then, on.

B

This motion to approve, as presented second all, those in favor, say aye aye, aye opposed.

B

Okay, you have your approval very good. Thank you. So much yeah, good luck.

K

All right all righty going back to um 138 gate street, so I see ann is in the back. uh This was.

F

Before us several months ago- and I think what's being requested- is again to relocate the.

F

The three windows, or two of them there over to the left, where there's some yeah, I'm sorry.

K

Excuse me sorry on the sign she wants the sign for the sign back. Okay right.

F

um So, what's here is a request again to shift the uh the right side, windows and I think the.

F

Issue that we were grappling with last time was the impact on the the frame of the structure.

F

So and if you have anything else to add to that.

N

um Yeah um we haven't done the demolition inside yet, but but shifting that the 40 inches you know.

N

Gives a much better corner feel, and I feel like that is probably sufficient. If we have to get into.

N

The upper edge of something we can resupport it, but we're having to order the kitchen, like eight.

N

Months ahead, so we're really trying to nail this down and the other change was in the small edition.

N

We made some changes to the half bath to add a washer dryer, so the location of that window had.

N

To shift into the bathroom from the mud room, so it's just a small location change. Any questions.

B

Comments, I think it makes it look a little more symmetrical. I kind of like it.

B

B

Oh, I'm very sorry, yeah. Do you have any questions about it, though david? No, okay, I'm good. Sorry.

F

Okay, we're good all right, so 48 manning street. There are a whole host of.

F

Requests here many of them are exempt from review, but the applicant put a whole.

F

Raft of them in here just to, I think, get everybody up to speed on what's requested.

F

um The primary request for the administrative approval is to remove the existing fence along.

F

The street edge uh remove the garden structures. The couple of pergolas remove a skylight. That's.

F

On the rear portion, uh rear roof, surface of the gambrel, remove and replace a terminal vent. That's.

F

um On the back of the structure and do some drainage work which really isn't before us, but.

F

That's the primary reason the fence is coming down initially, and I think in talking to the.

F

Applicant they're evaluating a new fencing option that they'll come back with when they're ready.

F

um What else have I missed? Let me see here's the list.

F

The metal, uh oh, the storm windows, which is an exempt activity they're, going to take the aluminum.

F

Storms off and replace them with woodstorms yeah, um and they are doing some gutter work.

F

uh In the mechanical, so the mechanicals are on the left-hand side of the house.

F

It's not really clear where they're going to be located and whether they're screened, so I'm.

F

Guessing that will likely need to come back to be clarified exactly where they're going to sit. How.

F

Many there are and what what if any screening is, is provided. They may also need to go to the board.

F

Of adjustment, unfortunately yeah to put them in that location, so there'll be time to come back.

F

Here and clarify that um future installation of a wood cedar roof that that's fantastic. I didn't.

F

See that the first time um and a new kitchen hood still vent, so is the applicant here yeah perfect.

O

My name is jim lavadier, my wife janet. We just bought 48 manning street and we.

O

We've been restoring antique houses for 35 years.

O

Had a business called fine period homes down in marblehead, we do really extensive restoration.

O

Work, we're preservation, people really we do it for ourselves. It's not my primary business.

O

um I want to share something with you just so you can pass it around real, quick.

O

Preservation of wood on the marblehead, no.

B

Marblehead or marble head.

O

um You started restoring houses back in the in the 80s, and uh so we bought buzzy dodge's house.

O

Which is a wonderful piece of property, we're going to do for ourselves? So was there anything.

O

In particular that I can answer now, because I do have pictures of how I would uh put fencing.

O

Around any air conditioning, I have several houses that I've done in marblehead. I can even show you.

O

um How we fence off air conditioners.

F

I think that'd be great if you had a screening image there yeah sure this is the location shown.

F

On the screen right yeah, it's probably going to be tucked more into those trees.

O

And behind the trees and I'll show you a couple examples.

F

So further from the building, then not back here yeah I mean it's.

O

I can't give you the exact location, because I think we're going to have to dig a trench to get.

O

You know the hvac um condensing lines on the ground yep. I want to try to get them.

O

Away from that little alleyway, because that's in between the two houses, I don't.

O

Want to try to get them further into the yard and be behind tucked in there yeah.

O

And then we would um I'll give you an example. All the different types of.

O

Start at the end, there.

E

B

B

It did show you working, you were carrying an aluminum chair. That was me right now. It seems.

B

That everything that you're asking for is pretty cut and dried. At this point, I assume you'll be.

B

Coming back, one thing that is interesting when you look at these, this old photo from.

B

1870 or 80 with the uh watering trough and that pump right and I've seen pictures with this guy.

B

Cappy somebody cappy stewart who apparently took this and sold it. Oh really, he was very good at.

B

um But at that time period you had a much different entry. You didn't have a pediment.

B

You had a flat with a awning light over the door. Is that something you plan to go back to? I don't.

O

Plan on doing anything that buzzy dodge put in back in the 70s, I mean, as far as like changing.

O

The aesthetics of the outside of the house at this point: okay, as we get into it further, and I study.

O

The house, a little more, I may figure out what exactly. But the reasons why, what's there today.

O

Is there I don't, I take these projects pretty slowly and [music] um I think the exterior looks.

O

Fine, normally, what I'll do like you see in that book? I I normally do period windows. I have bench.

O

Made windows made by architectural components: we've used mannheim glass. We, you know, we do all.

O

Usually do all the complete exterias, but I don't want to get into the um that with this house. We're.

O

Going to keep the windows that are in there today, there's some 19th century windows. There's some 19.

O

20S windows, but they all you know from what they were. You know buzzy dodge did back then I think it.

O

Looks fine we just we are going to paint the house we're going to maybe put a wood roof on the house.

O

Eventually, um the reason why we want to take the fence down is mainly because we we want to.

O

Get rid of the drainage issue. That's in the front today, there's a little water coming into seeping.

O

Into the foundation, I have people rebuilding the entire foundation on the inside right now I can't.

O

Stop the water until we get a small drainage in the front and it's kind of it's very minor.

O

We just need to get a small backhoe in there a mini just so we can dig a trench across the front.

O

Put membrane in stone pipes and then I've never had gutters and downspouts on any historic houses.

O

I've ever done, we usually take them off. We usually let the water drain, where it's supposed to go and.

O

We let it we flow it out away from the house. This one has gut, isn't downspouts as we get into this.

O

Project I want to see if we it's even needed once I put the proper pitch the drainage in.

O

A question I have is um I'm like 50 50 on the fence, like whether I.

O

I want to know from the board: are you leaning towards wanting to have a fence or not have a.

O

Fence because I would be perfectly happy with a very clean front, you know the house with nothing.

O

And I I brought, I had some pictures showing the house in the 1800s with no fence and then I have.

O

Another one with a fence- and I just want to make sure that if I take the fence down then I'll draw.

O

Up a nice period, correct fence for it, but it will build it, but I I would rather have nothing.

O

So so that photograph, I believe, is the advocates photo. So it's probably early 80s, which.

H

Were almost in the historic period, but yes but um 1980s when it's 50 years, it's sobering when she.

I

Says it that way? No, doesn't it um the photo that's on here right now, so it was that a wood roof then.

F

That's a wood rule, so it's been removed subsequent to the advocates yeah wow. Sadly, it's too good.

H

So here's your more historic photo [music] and I'll. Just if that's your question I'll.

H

Just say I don't have a preference either way. I I like I mean, look, it's probably a bank right.

O

You look at all houses that are there, they don't see fences in the front of the house right and.

O

Typically, I don't know when that fence was put on. It looks pretty early on and there's other pitches.

O

With fences but there's also photographs without fences, what it was like in 1730.

O

Probably had nothing who knows that house wasn't there in 17th we'll talk about that later, um okay,.

I

Sure any time I live just around the corner in terms of fencing reality, if you're a period.

I

Person is that in the late 18th century formal houses had formal sections of fencing in front.

I

Of their building very balanced and usually no larger than the building itself right um in the.

I

18 the mid 1800s 1845 or so in the period of this house, a lot of fencing became kind of bland and.

I

And capped board type fencing and that was run somewhat indiscriminately around whole properties.

I

um And and since then, fencing has gone in every direction, uh picket fences and the rest.

I

Of that, I would say, as far as the commission we've never held anyone to a moment on time.

I

For their fencing, because so many buildings have had so many different kinds of fences.

I

um But uh I I just so you know I happen to live in the first period, so I've been like studying.

O

First period homes for almost 30 years, so I don't see a lot of fences in the periods of the type.

O

Of houses that I'm used to so I don't you know you talk about federal period. I understand it's.

O

Plenty of federal offenses in newburyport, all through you know around here as well. This house.

O

You know it's a combination of many different periods and there's a first period element of.

O

It that we opened up- and I don't know how much how many people have seen but.

O

It's there's a very early structure inside that house. um You say it wasn't here in 1730.

O

um Must have some solid knowledge of that? Oh this, when it was first built, was a cape on manning.

I

Street and uh was basically extended back by the addition of the center chimney and the gambrel.

I

Built around it yeah and then some pieces of that it was framed up in in chestnut oak and can I.

I

Say uh you can't cut through that stuff? Can you explain to me the nail into it? Go back to the.

O

The cape yeah it was built as a cape yeah and the whole left hand. What you think of is the left-hand.

I

Side as you're looking at from the street of the house, was added on uh 1835 1840. As I recall.

I

It's an interesting house, it's got many different features. I think that's why.

I

um The the peaked pediment is on the doorway that what we think of as a serial ceremonial front door.

I

Of the house, which is where the staircase is, um but it's sort of the house has been interpreted as.

I

A georgian house rather than a 19th century house, uh because there's actually two parts and and sort.

I

Of trying to be true to one theme throughout the building, some parts of it got a little earlied up.

B

I like that term, um so besides uh could we take out the hvac equipment and then could.

B

We move on then nick, because this is well. I think, if the hvac, I'm just gonna, take a stab.

A

At that, if the mechanical equipment is going to be located back in those arborvitaes in the back.

O

Back here and you won't when you, you will not see him when I'm done with it and you'll well,.

O

You'll see either fencing of something. Would you do a screen like the yellow house, yeah.

F

There was a board on board screen and then there was only what I'd do. Yeah.

F

There's probably enough there to proceed. Okay sounds great to me. I'll use that image just.

F

All right, do you want to see it again? Let's just make that a stipulation. Did you pass the stuff.

F

We're keeping the book too yeah, it's good evidence right evidence mm-hmm. So I'm thinking this one.

F

Yeah you can keep that yeah, something similar to that yeah. It's good evidence: okay, okay,.

B

All righty well. Thank you very much for no problem. Thank you for your explanations. Congratulations.

F

Thanks for coming to portsmouth yeah, that's a real piece.

B

Thank you, okay. Now, where do you go from there? Where are we.

F

You guys voted on that. No, no, no okay, we'll keep going! Okay! Sorry, 93, pleasant street.

F

As I am yeah well wood roof. We don't see that very often, uh okay, 93 pleasant. This is two.

F

Pieces I see tracy kozak in the audience. I don't know if you're here for this or not tracy, but the.

F

First, request is for acceptance of the wool um deconstruction plan and eventual reconstruction.

F

And then the second half of the request, I think, is to switch up the proposed windows.

F

For the main house, from what you had before to appella architectural reserve series, something.

F

Like that effect, because it has the roll roll up screen so there'd be no screen required.

F

On the replacement window, I don't know is that good? Okay, any questions for tracy.

E

So the the windows that were previously approved were also aluminum, clad. They were fiberglass, clad.

P

Wood instead of aluminum cladwood by colby same profile, same shapes. It's just that it was a fiber.

P

Fiberglass, instead of aluminum painted the same okay, and this is on the match. No, this is only the.

P

New edition in the back mansion windows are being restored. That's where I get confused. Sorry.

P

Yeah we just don't like the look of the screens, so we want them to roll up and disappear. Okay.

J

Is is the finished grade at the top of the wall at this at the same height as the top of the wall.

P

um It's within four or five inches or so is there going to be any concern with the code drop-off.

J

You know oh yeah, absolutely so in the proposed landscape plan there was a fence and in fact.

P

Per htc recommendation, we move the fence, we had it originally, on top of the wall, we we're now putting.

P

It right in back of the wall so that we don't impact or damage the wall great. So if you look.

F

At the screen, it's approximately here, the fence location will be yeah right back there and that's.

P

That's the um south end of the wall and the north end has a planted hedge hedge row of boxwoods.

J

Is there any way to push it away from the wall more towards the building even further back.

J

So that is less of a component that one would think is part of the wall.

P

Yeah sure it's is there, there's a egress walkway at that south end of the wall from a fire exit.

P

Out to grade so we just have to make sure we keep room for that proper egress width and we have some.

P

Leeway to scooch it back if need be a little bit, so you can maybe shift the fence to the edge of.

F

The walkway, rather than the edge of the wall right, wouldn't that be appropriate, but on the.

F

Edge of the walkway, rather than the edge of the wall, that I think that would be a better approach.

P

Okay, that's just one voice here. No, I would agree also, and if you look at the concrete, the angle.

B

Of the concrete one one foot to four feet, um you know if the if the posts are down uh two.

B

Feet then it's going to have to be eight inches over or something you know. It's gonna it. It's.

B

The posts are going to hit the concrete unless you move it anyway. So that's an excellent point.

A

Architect, question: uh how how level yeah one a friendly one excuse me.

I

um But no, you made the comment about moving the railing to the walkway.

I

How much of a requirement does the applicant have to build a.

I

Fence on top of the wall, if no one walks there other than maybe the.

I

Guy mowing the lawn, that's a good point: it's like it's like a rooftop off right.

J

If there's a walkway, you need in a public access, then you're getting into public safety, and you.

J

Would have to to deal with that, but if this is semi-private or private different story.

P

Maybe we can look at. I look at doing the hedge the whole way, instead of a fence yeah.

F

We just don't want people falling off. I'm worried about the commission telling you.

I

That you shouldn't worry about people falling off if it's not our purview, to do. Thank you very much.

B

I agree also because um somebody mowing could have a problem and uh yes, they're working on a building.

B

Or and um so we have to put fences around hvac units up on a roof and that's because somebody's.

B

Going to work on that unit and they could fall so I'm afraid that um you know that this really.

B

Shouldn't be lawn or something like that myself well right now, but it's not up to us vents are.

F

A hedge on the edge of the walkway yeah, I think anything that sort of keeps the wall independent.

J

I think is is goes a long way to giving it to what it was uh before almost since a freestanding one.

H

Should we make the stipulation that the fence, if you, if used by.

H

The project should be along the walkway but or a hedge or well, and I mean there's going to be a.

H

Hedge, there too, so that's what they're planning all the way out. Well, no, currently, the hedge is.

P

Halfway and the fences, if it can substitute for the fence yeah, I think a hedge being halfway is.

H

Fine, it's just the fence that seems to be a little bit might be more visually yeah.

H

So I'd be I'm fine with the I don't know if I have better. This is just me: I'm fine with the.

H

Hedge being midway and then, if you choose to use the fence, it's along the walkway.

B

So looks like a good project.

B

Easy. Thank you any other questions. Okay, keep going nick, okay, 45 market street. This is a request to.

F

Shannon here no uh request to modify the doors, uh the entryway doors on market street, which I.

F

Think were originally approved to be clear and they'd like to do a three-quarter on on the left.

F

So the approved version is on the screen on the left over here: two clear doors: full.

F

Then a three-quarter is what they're proposing on the storefront into the commercial space and.

F

A solid door is proposed on the residential access to the right.

F

So how about it? Nobody here right sounds good to me: yeah nice yeah. I I have to say.

I

Mr chairman, that I I walked the street and did a bit of a survey of of buildings on that side.

I

And and found probably, the most consistent line was that that uh the glazed doors and.

I

Solid doors mimicking each other, only one just having solid panel was a probably the.

I

Best fleshed out example of what I saw on the other side, and this certainly looks like that.

E

Read: okay, anybody else! No! Okay! Let's do the last one 237 islington street. I believe this is the.

F

Last unit in the building that does not have an awning window on islington street, so you don't.

F

See it in the image here, this is the unit where they'd, like the awning window. On the second floor.

F

I'll try and pull up a street view of. What's there today, uh isaac also sent in the email today.

H

Example of the window yeah, I was just going to show anybody. That's interested.

F

What I think isaac said this is it here? Well, these are the awning windows. A couple open here.

F

's another one down here.

F

So I can't imagine there's any issues the window is the same manufacturers.

F

What other people have put in, I'm not sure when the others were put in? I haven't looked.

F

Any issues with that nope, okay, so that I think that's the list right did I miss any. Can I move.

H

That we approve uh the two three four five, seven, eight nine. There are a few stipulations.

H

In there, but oh wait: I didn't do oh paul street. I didn't do it, um sorry, which is nine, oh and that's.

F

Only been added to the agenda because it was approved last month, as I think, 123 bow street.

F

And it's supposed to be 121., it's in the same building, it's just a different address, so we.

A

Figured we'd redo it; okay, fine, that's it! So now you can add nine all right.

E

Thank you. Thank you. All those in favor say aye aye opposed all right.

B

So moving right along to work sessions, bold business, we'll go down then yep.

F

Two work sessions about to go to the table. Yeah. We have to go down. Okay,.

F

We had a request to do these in reverse order this week, certainly from the applicant.

E

So, which one are we doing? First we're doing the two work sessions? Oh okay: first down there.

H

H

It was just kind of fun to see at the before. Oh sorry,.

B

Again about the picture from the 80s or 90s the uh this third from the corner, yeah.

Q

Welcome thank you for having me back.

Q

They're watching.

Q

My mom and dad they're very proud and they all thought.

Q

That you treated me quite well. The last time.

B

Thank you, keep those cards and letters coming in.

F

What's in there.

F

All right, if you wanna just start it no, I haven't started so you can actually see in the photo that.

Q

The addition on the back of the house was there whenever this photo was taken which predates.

Q

When I originally thought it does, anyone know when, when those photos came out when that book came out.

E

All right, okay, this thing started and then it'll be a work session requested by christopher daniel.

B

Freud owner is that close enough. That is uh exactly right: yeah right for property, located.

B

At 37 prospect street wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to.

B

An existing structure add separate, first and second floor additions as per plans on file in.

B

The planning department said, property is shown on assessment map. 141 is lot, 16 lies within.

B

The general residence, a and historic districts- oh really introduce yourself again, uh I'm dan freund.

Q

um uh Christopher's my first name, but my friends call me dan.

Q

uh And yeah uh many of you came out to the property after the first work session to inspect.

Q

And I also included this time uh with my new materials uh aerial shots of the structure, um so.

Q

I'm excited to continue moving this project along and to get to the point where I can actually begin.

F

Did you make any changes from one year? uh Could you give us so uh the uh the changes were in.

Q

In particular, in style of the entrance to the barn and to review for uh for definitions, I'll refer to.

Q

The carports, the garage extension and the barn and then the mud room in between the two structures.

Q

uh So the entrance would be at the point where the garage extension begins to offer. You know.

Q

um It it seems to be uh the the type of entrance that I would like into that space.

Q

um The um the changes uh to the back of the house are uh rather than two center doors. I.

Q

Have been attracted to a split sliding door that opens at the center with four panels and.

Q

Have included an alternative option with a french door style as well, although I prefer.

Q

The sliding doors, because, uh in order to maximize space and limit uh door swing,.

Q

um The I don't know if we had the standing seam metal roof in the original submission and the two.

Q

Variations on the shed dormer one where the shed dormer is on the new construction over.

Q

What is the garage extension and the preferred version which would encompass roughly a third of.

Q

The existing barn with the shed dormer, as well as the new construction other than that the.

Q

One minor uh change on the front elevation the side door, which the existing door is just really.

Q

Terrible, it's an old steel door and it doesn't feel right, and so I don't know if this is the.

Q

Right time to propose a door in similar style to what I have selected for the.

Q

The barn entrance, which would be a three-quarter class door.

B

Start with the right dan have you got anything.

E

um I think this solves a lot of the problems we.

E

Were worried about with trainees and everything, and I think it.

E

um Roof lines and and gives you expansion, I'm not sure I'll, pass on to the experts on doors.

E

And windows uh make the general design. May I point out one other consideration and I don't know if.

Q

It comes out in this, uh the carport. I would like to pull back just about a foot just to.

Q

Reveal the corner of the house uh and- and I you know, distinguish the carport from the the house.

B

Are you going to rebuild that carport in any way? uh That's my intention. Yes, are you going.

B

To make an effort to accent the posts or, if you give it some some look, that's more.

B

Appropriate to your college, I would like to uh uh make them in a a post and beam fashion with.

Q

uh Mortis tenants uh and and uh because right now I think there are three. Therefore there.

Q

Would be four three posts in that open section, the carport section, and I think that would be.

Q

uh In in style, I wanted to bring that into the construction style as much as possible, whether.

Q

It is structural or it is an aesthetic appeal, um but yes, that's very much uh in mind for me.

B

I mean those little four by fours. They look awful spindly when they're sticking, I agree. Yeah yeah.

E

Your opponent opponent of the foot, which way uh a foot back.

Q

Just so that the because, right now it comes right to the front facade, okay,.

H

These are all great proposed designs um having the dormer. I know that what you're saying that.

H

I'm looking at option a on in 2.2 um nick, but uh it just worries me a little bit about.

H

Taking off that corner of the roof line, the original roof beam um and extending that forward.

H

I'm sure it's fine, but that's the only concern I have just because then that's that's something.

H

That you can't really reverse if you wanted to in the future, so you kind of lose that history.

H

Of the corner of the barn, although I suppose it will still you'll still see from the other side.

H

The original- um and I I wouldn't- I wouldn't be taking out that structural uh um rafter, okay.

Q

There are four bents uh in the structure uh and I wouldn't be removing that from the structure, so it.

Q

Would be visible inside the structure? Okay, and that that uh rafter is actually partly damaged.

Q

It looks like there was a a brace that had ripped out so there's some minor damage to that. Okay. Well,.

Q

No, I I don't I I like the way it looks. um No, I think there's I mean I think all of these.

H

Options are are great. I think that the mud room is going to be a really.

H

Nice addition there and just make everything more cohesive and look like it makes sense so.

H

Yeah, why do you want to go? No, I'm going to pass for the moment. Thank you. Actually, I'd like to.

D

Pass too, I'm still trying to figure it all out yeah. Thank you. um Thank you, mr chairman. um I I'm.

I

I guess on our tour, our sidewalk, I was struck by a couple of things. One was the level of.

I

Completeness that I felt in that small barn uh and- and uh I was sort of struck by how.

I

How few of them there are left that are in any kind of shape at all and so making and changes.

I

To it kind of sets me off a little bit. uh I saw the dormer being constructed on the.

I

Roof- and I know that that means purlins are going and, and things like that.

I

uh It doesn't warn me uh the extent and then I'm bothered by the fact that the building already.

I

Has we'll just say that the buildings in at the moment, seven parts, uh the house, the side shed the.

I

Rear addition, the infill addition on the back, the lean to uh carport the garage extension and then.

I

The barn itself- and it just seems like there's too much there now uh and and I'm not really a.

I

Fan of carports, I don't think it's a period, correct, carport uh it even at best it's got.

I

A no matter how you build it, it's going to be very cottage or agricultural in its affected. It doesn't.

I

Look like an urban thing to have happened on an 18th century house. I'm not warming up to this.

B

Okay rich, um thank you chair. um Thank you, daniel for bringing this to us, but I I can agree with.

L

These changes, I can support these changes. I think you can still see the snorkel house.

L

um I'm I'm the supporter of these.

C

Raise some of my concerns um about this.

C

He raised my exact concerns: okay, yeah everything dad.

B

David, I have a question for you: what period would you say that this farm? Well, I I think it's a.

I

Right around the time of the revolution, uh certainly before the federal period, so I guess.

I

It would make it georgian, is it pre-revolutionary, I'm not certain of that, but I need to see more of.

I

It, but it's certainly not a 19th century barn or the sheathing boards on the roof. Are they going.

I

Yes, it's it's exactly all classic purlins common main rafters uh shaped corner posts. The thing that.

I

Throws me a little bit is the the ceiling, the mouth of the barn? It's a small barn, okay, but.

I

The the attic floor, we'll call it okay, is made of very heavy timbers sort of, like you see in.

I

Some early 19th century buildings, where they made floor, joists big square things, whereas in.

I

I'm sure you know this uh in pre-revolutionary buildings. It's it's not uncommon to see large.

I

Beams but the joists frequently are very small pieces. This is not that way, so either that it.

I

Was built for heavy load, which is a locksmith shop or someplace, where the guy might have had.

B

A chain fall or or was storing heavy things up there above overhead, uh somebody had a a.

I

Farm in uh newington and brought their apple cider there and stored it upstairs. I I really don't know.

Q

My record suggests uh 1790, but I stole some time with an earlier speaker to.

Q

Try to find out more information about the origins, yeah interesting.

B

um Karen yeah, the carport um is, is tough for me. I do see it as an agricultural use.

D

And trying to make make it historic part of the the newer house, I I struggled with the.

D

Way, it looks and I don't know how that's done to make it fit in. I know you want to keep it.

H

It's struggling with it if it's something that is he's just is he's not necessarily changing.

H

Do we I mean we can't ask him to take it off if he's there, he is tearing it thinking about it.

F

Most times the new building too yeah, that's right. I mean it's sydney. It's an interesting.

H

Questions yeah! That's not! What's before you, though, it's what you're suggesting right.

B

Well, it's a good point. um I would just like to say.

B

I'm very much in agreement with mr adams going to look at it. It was a fascinating structure. You know.

B

It had big wide boards like this on the side of it and, of course all they did was put their lawnmower.

B

In there and stuff like this, they wanted to take it down and so yeah. I realize you're, not picking.

B

It down but um you're changing it. um So if the if um the dormer weren't on it, I would feel a little.

B

Bit better about it, but um so if uh yes that's just my opinion, uh are you saying the dormer at.

Q

All or the option a with the dormer uh over the new construction is acceptable. That would be the.

Q

One, that's it this one here would be a matter of the two um I mean. That's option seems to.

H

Be the one that might change it. The least yeah I mean, and you can explain to us exactly just what.

H

Would be changing to this structure? Obviously you're, adding a piece to the.

H

Front of it yes to accommodate stairs and a bath right, but are you doing anything else to.

H

Barn structure: uh no, uh um I very much I I love the structure. I want to accentuate it. I want to.

Q

um I want to make it habitable so that I can enjoy it.

Q

It would be, in my opinion, there again good to have some vertical break between your new.

B

Structure that is going to be attached to the barn and the and the old barn. Even if it's.

B

Just a trim board that's coming down saying this is the barn yeah. This is the my five.

B

Foot edition inside you might never note you're not going to notice it. You know what I mean, but.

B

um And I I did plan for that uh in option b. uh I I asked um my designer to show me what it might.

Q

Look like with vertical barn boards uh just to differentiate it from the existing structure. Yeah.

Q

And he did point out, he heard your comment on the site visit as well about having keeping that piece.

Q

Of trim- and so we very much want to delineate that break between the original structure.

H

I would be very, I would be also be supportive of a different cladding, like you have drawn to actually.

H

To really differentiate, so the barn is highlighted as being authentic in its own and a new benefits.

Q

That uh raising a question for me as well, which is the if you look inside those boards, are vertical.

Q

Boards and uh at that time period it was entirely possible that it used uh vertical cladding on the.

Q

Outside um they might have been, and then they got so badly rotten that they put shingles over it.

B

Something like that, but it's distinctly different from the house, which has broad horizontal cladding.

Q

With a mitered edge yeah, and the one thing I would also say is a little caveat. Is that.

B

The new edition, of course, will be on footing four feet down into the.

B

Ground below the frost line and this barn is sitting on a slab just by itself, a barn moves.

B

You know, and new construction is not supposed to move so if you've got places where you're.

B

Joining one or you're going to be running kitchen cabinets from the barn into this new edition or.

B

Anything like that I'd! Just beware careful! Yes, I I. I noted that in our uh our previous as well.

Q

And asked a bunch of questions. Okay, do we have any other comments? Can I just ask a question? Oh.

D

um So you have the two dormers. You have one on the on the barn and you're willing to lose that one.

Q

uh That uh that's entirely within I mean, if that's what it takes, it could still work too. If you.

D

Didn't have it, it still works yeah, one up there right here, right, right, yeah, option b uh and that.

Q

That still accommodates, uh so it works for you. Yes, that's what he's not gonna do and then that's.

E

What he's losing him again, yeah, I'm right, yeah and the dormer on the house- is that step down at.

D

All uh there's no dormer on the house. The dormer is coming off of the existence. Yes, that's what I.

D

Mean is that step down. Is that step down the roof line? Is the same? It's the same, so I I would likely.

Q

um uh I don't yeah, I don't know that the the height would uh allow indeed the height for.

D

That, oh, okay, so to differentiate differentiate between the old house and but that that would.

Q

Be an interior uh uh decision um if I'm correct, if I'm not mistaken, like what she's asking is, it can.

F

You lower that dormer ridge height differentiated from the old, even if it's only eight or nine.

D

Inches or something just just to show the uh he hasn't drawn kind of that way. If you go to 2.3.

H

And I don't know if bob did this intentionally or if it's yeah, but the the top of that dormer.

H

On the right side for option b is a little below the ridge line. Where am I seeing that 2.3 yeah? It.

Q

Looks like the the ridgeline would continue, but the door we're not talking about that. Yeah yeah.

F

The height of the dorm room is just below the ridge line. This one's not drawn right back here.

F

Right because this is going all the way to the ridge yeah right, so you.

A

Want to know which one's right yeah, which is the right one both of them, are on here.

F

Yeah, you want the one that's lower yeah yeah and that that works for me, so that.

E

One's the wrong one: this is, we still have enough room if you dropped it. Eight inches.

E

Right double check: I don't have that answer right. Sure, yeah! This one is not what he's doing.

D

This is with the same ridge. Yes, for the addition.

L

No, that would help tell the story of the barn and the addition yeah yeah.

A

You can see there's a taller structure. This is the option uh and and with the the changes.

A

In your neighborhood, keen on keeping this character incorporates the barn.

Q

And when you go here yeah, so I think we've heard a lot of our comments and uh about the barn there.

B

Was a few of us and as far as the dormer on the barn goes, I think and the other comments.

B

Are primarily about the carport, and so I wish that you and your designer would get together and think.

B

About the carport- and you know, have a good plan that we can see and understand what you're going.

B

To do to make the carport um have an urban look. um Have an old look on your house, which you want.

B

And I think that's about where we're at all right well, thank you, you're doing pretty well. Thank you.

I

Could we also request a couple of uh floor plans, a foundation plan, or something like that? Certainly.

I

I I didn't see it.

E

No, I'm not there.

B

Okay, so we need to continue this if so moved. Second, all those in favor.

B

Thank you. Thank you.

B

Okay, so now we're going into another work session.

B

Requested by sean and michio padong owners, I hope I said that correctly.

B

For property located at 39 dearborn street, wherein permission is requested to allow.

B

Exterior construction to an existing structure, replace existing roofing, add a new side and.

B

Entry edition ask for plans on file in the planning department, said property is shown on an.

B

Assessment map 140, it's locked, three lies within general residence, a and the historic district.

B

Awesome, please introduce yourselves and what have we got.

R

um I am amy dunn, I'm the designer on the project and.

R

um So you have before you, this is our third work session, so um I actually am presenting.

R

um Two options: on the first page you'll see hour, I didn't include the dutch colonial, but.

R

You're going to see sort of our progression just so you can see that we're trying to work with you.

R

So basically, what we have in these two options- version seven and eight- is preserving the cape.

R

100 percent not we're not planning on touching it and creating a glass connector that is subtle and.

R

Creates a visual separation between the existing cape and newer um new modern living quarters.

R

The goal was to be able to look through the connector visually to see the existing front door.

R

And to see straight through it to the backyard, I reference st john's connector.

R

Because I think that is a good example of connecting the old and the new and.

R

um That connector will have trim work, only just windows and trim works and no siding.

R

And then the modern living section would take place in a separate structure with.

R

Which would house the family room in the primary suite to the floor? We do want to.

R

We spent a lot of time we met with nick on the site talking about mass, and so at this point the.

R

We're we're hitting the minimum living square footage that is acceptable to the bardongs.

R

For their needs, as far as a we're fine, with on the first floor, it's it's the second floor.

R

That gets a little bit tricky um and so trying to balance that mass with the existing cape. So.

R

um What we, let me just spell out the differences between version.

R

Seven, which I'm defining as a and it's probably easier to see on this sheet.

R

Yep, um I don't know what happened there. We go um so in version seven, the connector is nine.

R

Feet: seven feet wide and in version eight the connector is seven feet, seven wide. So it's a.

R

Little bit wider, um the connector in version seven, is the existing footprint of the of.

R

The mud room and we widened that a little bit more with version seven, um and when I.

R

Title it cape with colonial edition. That's that is an additional, not 519 square feet and in version.

R

Eight, that's an additional 565 square feet, both of which are 2.9 feet higher than the existing gig.

R

um So I think it's always hard with perspectives and it's almost easier with an elevation to see.

R

That exact 2.9 square feet. um In my opinion, I think that the the colonial edition is.

R

Simpler lines and um basically stays with the neighborhood of dearborn being basically all.

R

Whole slew of tall colonial tall kind of nero colonials and then the cape edition replicates.

R

The existing cape with a dormer um and that would have the rake boards applied on the sides.

R

B

um Which do you prefer? What's? uh They do prefer version seven? um That is the.

R

Colonial yeah. Thank you. um It's a wider edition, yeah with the wider um glass connector yeah.

B

So, okay, I just wanted to say thank you for the letter that you sent um that was very well written.

H

And- um and we appreciate that always so- we don't usually get very many heartfelt letters. So thank.

H

You, um and I think this is a really interesting approach that you've decided to take on and.

H

It seems like in our past discussions that that little garage thing was problematic anyway, because.

H

We, you know, weren't sure what it was going to do and and how we were going to use it. So.

H

um I think that this is probably the best of the options that you've kind.

H

Of gone through because you're, actually you are preserving the old cape which is.

H

um Is a historic structure and um deserves to be your photographs from the inside like it looks.

H

Beautiful inside I know it's tiny, but you know you've got some really nice pieces of that house.

H

That should be saved, so um this is even though these things can get awkward looking, sometimes.

H

When you have sort of a new house next to an old house um it basically, you know stepping back sort.

H

Of looking at this overall, it is a nice separation of here's. The old house here is our new living.

H

Space you're not really messing with the old stuff. It's clear that this is your modern space, so um I.

H

Think you know, theoretically that works really well. I also, um I think, agree that the colonial.

H

Option is probably the way to go. I would just like to see, I think, maybe that it should be simplified.

H

A little bit more, um the the in these renderings sometimes make things look really busy, but the.

H

Lots of windows on the front um are a little bit busy, but um you know in general the massing of.

H

It and all of that stuff, I realize that's, probably the lowest- that you can get the roofline with code.

H

And all of that stuff um to make it buildable, so I think you know I commend you for choosing.

H

This direction and then getting you know the most out of the smallest space that you possibly can.

B

um No, I just want to thank them that, oh, I think it's in some struggle with what.

E

Was there and what they need, and I think this is a nice thanks for listening and.

E

I think we do preserve the cape, I think, and I'd like that option, the best too all.

B

Right, you had your hand up yeah. I think this strategy of kind of leaving the.

J

These historic house alone and having your now, you have a couple wings and plenty of space and.

J

I've, you know backed up into a corner, be nice. If you could give the older house some more.

J

Breathing room but looks like there's limits as to what you can do given the site area. You sure.

J

You have the proper setbacks from the property line. Is it's that tight? It's that available.

J

What's good, we are looking into a um an easement at this point. The reason why you're not seeing.

R

Any windows on the back, because we're only two three from that property line: that's fire code.

R

um So if we had an easement, we could add windows back there, but okay.

R

You know yeah, it's like just tucked right back in that corner yeah. Well, I I think this is a.

J

Much better approach it it sort of distinguished even the architecture. It distinguishes itself from.

J

The original house- and I think that's a good thing- I don't think they have to be.

J

Be of the same same language, you don't want to have a confusion. uh This is your modern.

J

Wing this is your historic way and uh yeah. I think it's very supportive yeah. Thank you.

D

Thank you alrighty. um I, like both options, I I could live with either one of them. I.

D

Do like the congruity of the of the two capes. But if your preferences for the the colonial.

D

With the cape, I think I think it works well and I'm glad you're leaving the the old house.

I

Thank you very much as the rest of the commission. I'm certain you understand is highly supportive of.

I

Your handling, the old cape, it there's a sense of it re-emerging now. uh I think I agree with.

I

Karen, as far as the making the new piece, a cape, also so that it doesn't seem like it's.

I

The same level of towering over the old building, I also find the sort of the.

I

Modern fenestration is carried a little bit better. I think by the cape form with.

I

The dormer on the top having those extra win with that extra window in it, uh and I I think.

I

There's a an implication of scale that the cape modified cape has to the old building this. That.

I

And the connector making that contact area very small. I think this is a win.

L

I would thank you both. um My concern I said before was that we were losing the story of the history.

L

That you know it happened here and this both options tell the story. The story is clear. As.

L

Day you're not touching the history, so we can see that so I can only thank you and um yeah. No I'd be.

L

Very supportive of either the cape or the colonial either one yeah, I would be um I I did agree with.

L

Kushner rudig that the the clone, the colonial has a lot of windows on the top. You know what.

L

I mean, but I understand um you know, maybe if you took out like that yeah one or two, but um I think.

R

um It's a it's a you know not that the board reviews this, but from an interior perspective, what.

R

I'm trying to do is get a window in the bathroom and because we can't have windows on the back.

R

That's the only way that I can get a window in the bathroom is on the.

R

Front and then I need a wall so there's um oh yeah, it's been fun, which I do think it's fine.

R

um I just wanted to explain: um I look forward to the next iteration because I think that.

C

The busyness caused by caused by this particular fenestration is probably what's giving me the.

C

Most concern, um but you have other things, other fish to fry and things to find out about. Maybe.

C

In the back and maybe in the front- and so I think we'll just let you continue to develop it, I think.

C

I think that it would be possible for the new building to be.

C

um Too, distracting and busy compared with the the cape it already has enough modern elements.

C

um It doesn't need busyness to also define it as new when you're referring to that.

R

um Are you also referring to like the roof over the door, the the door structure itself.

R

The skylights all of that yeah yeah yeah, I would just say in general, mostly I think it's.

C

Just I'm having difficulty with the way this renders, like you said, sometimes it.

C

The um computer generated design has just so much detail that you're lost in shingles and.

C

What appears to be coins on the corner, but really isn't it's just yeah? It's. I think it's.

R

um It's almost easier to look at this well see. You can't do that. I don't work upside down, apparently.

R

Something like that where um you can actually see the lines, but yes, so I'd like to ask a question.

B

You are maintaining the historic front door on the cape, that is, that will stay yeah that is staying.

B

Is there any difference between the height of the two versions between the colonial and the cape? No.

B

They're both the same wow they're, actually, the same structure itself yeah like all. I literally.

R

Did was pull the roof in and then bring it down, so the ridge height stays the same wow.

B

So much for my using a straight edge, a piece of paper or a straight edge.

B

um It's on the um yeah. I just would like to say that I am very glad that you are.

B

Not really digging into the cape, um it is a very historic structure and has been there a.

B

Long time I did a little bit of research on some materials that I have and at one time that was.

B

um Dearborn's tannery, so basically you're part of your yard. There going around the corner was the.

B

Probably a big old wooden structure that was right on the water and it was a tannery at that time and.

B

In the early 1900s, there was a blacksmith shop, but I don't think it had. I think that the blacksmith.

B

Could possibly have lived in this building and used the little house on dearborn street.

B

Not on the corner, but the next house, the red one, the red one. No, it's blue.

B

It's the second house on the right. The first house is a ranch house on the corner of dearborn and.

B

Maple- and then I mean it's neither here nor there- it's got nothing to do so. I I just would like to.

B

Say that I am glad that you're not really opening up that roof and on the uh on the cape and.

B

uh All your work is going out here and um as far as the uh busyness, I'm just wondering if some of.

B

It could be the front door, I mean it's not often that you see two three foot doors with side lights,.

B

And an awning window over you know sometimes you'll see you know a door with side lights.

B

And the door would but then it's a single door. So I'm wondering if that door could be part of the.

B

Busyness that some people are having problems with, but other than that, I'm happy in the direction.

B

That you guys are going, do you have a preference between the two versions? I would say that um it.

B

Appeared to me that the colonial was shorter, I'm wrong, um so I like the cape version better.

A

Anybody else have any other comments.

B

Expired, that's it so, since we didn't get clobbered down, no, no! No! No! No! So we'll move forward.

R

um With this and um I'll just talk to you about how to proceed, whether we go.

R

Do another work session with materials or do you want us to go to a public meeting.

F

I think you're going to need to choose from oh, yes, the colonial in the case, because it sounds.

N

Like you know, well, if there's any indecisiveness on that, you wouldn't want to file for public.

F

Hearing yeah, it's not about choosing, then which one to go with from their side yep, so you could.

F

Do a work session, slash public hearing, if you felt like you know, you were going to do one of the two.

F

And it was clear tonight: it was support. Okay for the one you choose, then you would come in with the.

F

Materials present those and then go right into a public hearing. Okay, john, your support for the case.

A

Kate doesn't exclude seven or because I think most of us are allowing uh I'm not excluding either one.

E

Okay, I just like the the more detail. That's on the cake, yeah, okay, I think that's important for.

B

Them I mean good luck with the windows. I I just can't. I understand that fire code, as if somebody's.

B

Going to build a house right there and downtown, I can certainly see it, but in this location, yeah.

S

Property steps down about five feet from the yellow house: that's on maplewood! So.

S

It'd be difficult: oh you're, that close yeah. They built it right at the drop, so it drops by feet.

S

Right there all right! Well, good luck! Anyway. It's a quick question about the skylights.

C

Are those to um add additional light to the rooms that are in the windows below or is.

C

That light into an attic some kind, no there's no space for an addict, so it is to the bedroom.

C

Yes, they are in the back yeah boy. I wonder if the one if the skylights.

C

In the front are also what's adding to my visual busyness.

S

We kind of tried to mirror the original entrance and it has side lights, and this.

S

Transom up top, and so we were trying to copy that then again maybe hit it a.

S

Little bit, it's just none. You've got two really wide doors. Yeah the whole thing.

B

um Just as one who's got skylights and the rain that we've been having forever.

B

Now the last couple I mean, but have those things in a bedroom you're not gonna sleep.

F

What's your what's your setback on the right hand, side there we're at five. So why don't you.

F

Have windows in this? It look we're too close. Why are you too close? uh I mean it looks like a big.

S

Blank wall- that's 101, impede on our neighbor mike next door because you know so why don't.

F

You put some windows in with a bahama shutter or something just to break up that big blank wall.

R

That everyone's gonna see on dearborn. Let me check with paul and see for some reason here. I think it.

R

For five we're fine yeah and what's the deal with the sliding door, what's that for what is that.

C

Shed it's pretty nice and and have just an outdoor bike storage there, because we.

S

Don't have a garage into the building into the building like an interior shed because.

R

We were they've lost, all their storage, there's no other spot to do that without going in there.

R

um Because we're we're right at fema, we can't go close to the water. Yes, we're so completely.

R

Landlocked and they made our place to put the bikes right, like I'm afraid, it's going to float.

S

Away on a king tide, what windows do you have in the gable? On the other side that we can't see.

R

uh There's one in the second floor: yep yep, you can see it on the floor plan only. I believe.

R

um One on the gable end, looking at back at the cape.

R

H

Yeah because it's under it's within the game, yes right, underneath the.

R

Gable yeah centered under the cable yeah yeah. I can see it here.

B

No, I guess you probably can see that we don't like blank walls. Certainly the uh yeah, fair.

R

Enough mystery cracknell doesn't yeah. If we can put the windows in, we definitely want. I think.

S

The reason yeah he's just all understanding of code, so we can get it yeah and I I'm working with.

S

A lawyer in town- and I think he returns colby- reached out to you so he said to hold off until.

S

We cleared hdc on the structure so that we had something definitive to work with our neighbors.

S

If you do decide, you want windows, they could come back that isn't related to the easement.

F

Though that's the back of the building, the other big blank wall yeah, this has two solid.

F

Black walls to it, so that would be um I figure at some point. We're gonna have to come back anyway.

R

To make modifications yeah that we would either well, it sure, wasn't bad to see where the windows.

F

Would go the same thing you're going to take to the the neighbor sure yeah? We can show those.

R

Windows, they either happen or they don't. I mean we would love windows on that side right exactly.

S

So your bathroom problem goes away from the braid up to the property uh property height the ground.

S

Level for our neighbor mike and then his six foot fence so that, like the first having windows in the.

S

First floor didn't make a lot of sense but yeah on the on the second floor. It did, but we were.

S

Thinking that we were popping up against rules, so that's why they left them out for the moment.

F

I mean it probably makes sense to have one on the on the front corner of the building.

F

On the side, on the first floor, you have your living room, your family room, no well not in.

F

The corner, that's not where a window would go. Yeah, yep, uh yes, um in the center yeah.

R

And we are proposing a chimney, is it sounded like.

R

Brick versus stone- I don't think you guys really cared versus stone. I think the.

S

You had recommended the the stone veneer like, I think it if we didn't have stone right now. We have.

S

Brick around the kitchen, because that's what the previous owner, but we prefer this- the stone look.

S

But um so I think the chimney looked better with stones. Well, you needed a good detail on that stone.

F

To make sure it's the right stone, but yeah I mean it's up to you guys what you want brick or stone.

F

For a veneer on that concrete chimney or adobe, whatever you want, considering the modern.

I

Flavor of addition, I I don't think that it's really a stopper either way. I think brick, brick.

I

Is more it's easier to find somebody to do okay um in stone? It really, as mr kraknow says, depends an.

I

Awful lot on the stone, but if you find something that you like I, I would certainly support either.

I

I'm guessing really they're, you know they don't make them out of the unit masonry anymore.

I

They might no they. Yes, of course they do, but I doubt if somebody would, you know, make a solid.

B

Stone to me or something we always did anyways all right. So that's it. Do you have anything else? The.

S

Other thing I was going to add is margo. You had talked, we were originally when we put our first.

S

Submission we thought about hardy board, but you know once we found that there were some.

S

Wood products, like the my back, uh oh yeah, those are great yeah. I hope they still make it because.

S

I can only find it on the french canadian website for the maybe shingles the shingles.

T

They have but the the class lord, the clapboard, is only in french. So, let's see if we can get.

S

It down here, they're, primed and yeah. I've been doing a lot of research on there yeah, so we're.

S

Gonna work with that and that's pretty much the same as putting hardy in and painting it so yeah.

C

Just find it on both sides: yeah, what's that painted on both sides- yeah, oh, they are.

C

Awesome, okay, um so I guess we need a motion.

B

To continue, oh, so, moved sorry, all those in favor all right. Yes, thank you so much.

B

We have to go to board of adjustments next, um you can come back here while you're doing that. Yeah.

F

B

B

Alrighty then we're going to continue with the petition of noble island condominium association.

B

Owner for property, located at 500 market street units 4l to 15 r, wherein permission is requested.

B

To allow renovations to the existing structure, remove and replace existing cantilever deck with.

B

New raised decks on concrete footings, as per plans on file in the planning department said.

B

Property is shown on assessor map. 120 is lot, 2 lies within the character district 4-l1 and the.

B

Historic district, who is here to present this welcome evening, my name is michael street, with.

U

Cp management and I'm here on behalf of the board of directors for nobles allen, condo association.

B

It's gonna start somewhere sure yeah. um So these cantilever decks are original to the buildings.

U

Built in approximately 1983 um it's hard to tell from those pictures, but the cantilevered.

U

Steel beams are well rusted out and a lot of those cantilevered steel beams go through the foundation.

U

Right underneath several of the commercial sliding glass doors and so the driving factor behind.

U

Replacing the decks is just getting those doors back operational, so that means cutting.

U

The steel off at the foundation and then demoing those cantilever.

U

Decks and building raised, raised decks, set on footers, concrete footers, pierre or a sonotube.

U

And um the so the reason why the the doors don't open anymore is because the engineer found where.

U

The steel sits on the concrete foundation. The salt air over time has caused that that.

U

Steel to kind of grow and rust, so the rust is growing. Underneath the steel and the on top.

U

Of the foundation, so the steel's actually got a fulcrum point now, where it's kind of doing.

U

One of these they've got the hvac condensers on the end of the decks too, which is carrying some.

U

Weight towards the end of it, so we figure just cut the steel off build a regular raised deck.

U

uh Put the the condensers back where they are existing.

U

um And close those in like they are now but using the same decking material.

U

That we're putting on the deck to kind of create a corral around the hvac condensers.

U

um Same footprint, no change to the footprint of the deck: it's not going to be any closer to the.

U

Water um deck material is going to be composite like it is now it's going to be uh a uh azac.

U

Called the the lines called track enhance just a composite decking.

U

And it'll be the similar grayish color deck boards.

C

Yeah, certainly is: is this similar work that we approved a few years ago, or is it the same.

F

Exactly the same units, different units nope same, I think the permit expired, didn't it and you've.

U

Refiled yeah, we never got as far as a building permit. What happened was we got approvals from.

U

You folks planning board we're all good to go with the bidding process, and that was right when the.

U

Lumber prices like skyrocketed and were like like an astronomical pricing and we're going. Why don't.

U

We just wait a year and see what the lumber prices did do and then the pull this approval.

U

Being a one-year expiration just went by the wayside and we missed it, so I wasn't passed so I.

C

Reported again, I do have a quick question, um some of the photographs- and I don't remember I may have.

H

Asked the same question before um is showing that the decks really do cantilever out and below them.

H

Is it like drops away down into the water so where you have the edge of the decks and there's like.

H

Good, I don't know four or five foot drop there. What are you just going to see big.

H

Concrete posts sticking out of no good question um so the decks as they exist.

U

Right now, with this footprint, don't extend over that drop off they're. All I think the closest.

U

One is building okay. Can you zoom into the bottom left this one yeah, that's the one. I was looking.

H

Oh no, oh my god! There you go so yeah so far farther back there yeah. That corner is building c.

U

um And so that back left corner, so you can't really tell like it looks like it.

U

Drops off right with a deck is, but it doesn't really drop off until you get.

U

To the far left, where it's like a lighter gray, color, okay, so like.

U

That dark gray color is actually flat, but it looks like it's a big slope: yeah, okay,.

I

These concrete piers are also held back from the edge of the deck yeah.

U

They're two feet in from the very end of the deck okay, so they're going to be.

U

Sitting underneath the carrying beam, which is two feet in from the end of the deck.

E

In the construction of the decks individually will be pretty much the same yeah you get some that are.

E

Open you can some that are screens, you got yeah that won't change. No, we don't need a picture of.

E

What it'll look like it'll look like this with flat and even and better support exactly okay,.

B

So if there's no other questions, I'm going to ask if anybody in the public would like to speak.

B

On this application.

J

Nobody online nobody online. Nobody here wants to.

B

Speak on this, I'm going to close this public hearing and I look for a motion.

L

Move to approve, as presented.

B

L

um It's conservation, enhancement, principal property, values and compatible.

L

Compatibility of innovative technology surrounding properties.

B

um All right, so all those in favor say aye aye opposed.

B

And you have your permission. Thank you. Yep! Good luck! Don't fall on the water.

B

Petition of james williams, james, william woods and anna roline minardi owners for property located at.

B

One walton alley wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

B

Install new windows with and replace existing windows, as per plan on file in the planning.

B

Department said property is shown on assessment, 103 is lot, 27 lies within general residence b and.

B

Historic district, mr chairman, I'd like to refuse myself from this application all right, certainly.

V

Good evening mark janine from mchenry architecture, I'm here with richard desjardin from our office.

V

The project has been before you a couple times. We received htc approval originally in.

V

September of 2022., and then we were back for some modifications to windows. Similarly, last december.

V

So we're here today for a few modifications to the previous approval that relate to windows and.

V

A rear overhang so on page a1 for the first modification that we're looking for approval.

V

For on the left is the the addition. That's part of the house, part of the project and the owner wanted.

V

To add a second floor window to that edition, where we feel this helps balance out kind of the overall.

V

Elevation also on the same page there on the right at our last approval, our last admin.

V

Approval we had asked to change that attic window there to a egress window, a casement.

V

Since then, we've removed what was the attic or any scope in the attic, so we no longer need an.

V

Egress window, so we want to revert back to [music] um restoring the window. That was previously there.

V

uh So that's what shows up there on page a2, what about the roof canopy here I was going.

V

To get to that when you saw the straight on, but so yes, the roof canopy is part of the addition.

V

um That is also a private request. There's an existing canopy that right now sticks out about.

V

Nine inches it's pretty much just a little shed. The owner would like to provide something a little.

V

More substantial, so it actually provides some cover in inclement weather, when you're using the.

V

Rear door, uh the rear door will be the the door that's accessed, most of the time being adjacent to.

V

The driveway and also the new detached garage that was previously approved so that that overhang is.

V

A gabled overhang, it's two feet deep and five feet wide. So there's about a foot on either side of the.

V

Door so we weren't trying to make something too large with something that provided some protection.

V

Also on this same sheet here, the owner wanted to add a additional second floor window for a.

V

Bedroom uh on the second floor, so that the bedroom and that's in that area would only would have two.

V

Windows, instead of just one and then also on the sheet, the owner is looking to replace the existing.

V

Or the current casement window, that's showing up in the top right there. That's the kitchen.

V

And that window is installed sometime, probably in the 80s or 90s, doesn't necessarily it wasn't.

V

Isn't historic in any nature, but they would like to replace it with one of the windows.

V

That's being removed from another elevation, so it would match and also be historic, so it would be.

V

Moved and restored, and located on that and then again adjusted so that it was in line with both.

V

The upper and first floor windows, hopefully being more yeah appropriate for the building.

V

And that's it and then on the cover page. There's a detail of.

V

The bracket that would go with the uh the proposed overhang at the rear entrance.

B

Questions comments.

H

Pretty simple yeah karen, oh, but it's a nice project. I'd like to changes! Thank you.

B

um Upon looking at the site, I couldn't help but notice that the your concrete was poured.

B

Where there would normally be a wooden sill and I'm wondering, is that going to be covered? Is there.

B

Going to be some sheathing brought over, that are the clapboards, or is there going to be a mud, sill.

B

Or what is going to be over that concrete yeah, so the concrete was poured to help well, the the.

V

Entire cell was deteriorated around a majority of the building, particularly in the northeast corner.

V

Usually they replace the sill with another sill. Yes, yes, in this case, they chose to basically build.

V

A grade beam to help stabilize the top of the rubble foundation, um but, yes, it will be covered.

V

The sheathing overhangs, uh the the concrete, that's been poured so that will allow them to basically.

V

Continue the clapboard down over it, so it will appear from the exterior the same as it did when.

V

They started the work okay, so the concrete is back far enough as far as the plane of it is back.

E

Anything else, just one quick question on the south elevation I'd like to adding the fourth window.

E

But should there be some alignment between the top windows and the bottom windows or is that how.

V

Well, currently, all the other windows exist, except for the one that we're proposing adding on the.

V

Second floor so there's currently three windows on the top floor and four windows on the ground floor.

V

B

Okay, so would anybody in the public like to speak on this application.

T

Nobody online and there's no one online. So I'm going to close the public hearing.

B

And wait for some sort of motion the move that we approve. This application is presented seconded.

H

This um has really simple project that makes a lot of sense and adds a lot of symmetry. So this.

H

Complements and enhances the architectural and historic character and is consistent with special.

H

And defining characters surrounding properties. I would like to add on the south elevation that.

B

That second floor window, when, when they open that wall up, they might find the original framing for.

B

A second floor window there because it looks like it certainly belongs there. Okay, all the.

B

All those in favor, aye, aye and those against all right. You have your approval. Thank you. Thank you.

H

John at the beginning, you forgot to announce the postponements real fast, two of them at the end.

F

129 state and 765 metal, yeah, okay, I might as well do them at the end all right. I think.

H

There's someone here for one of them: oh really yeah. This is very not. This is not good. John.

B

uh Request to postpone petition of 129 state street llc owner for property located at 129 state.

B

Street wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure.

B

Add a masonry parapet as for plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown.

B

On obsessive map, 107 is lot, 47 lies within character, district 4 and historic districts.

B

um We have a motion to postpone yeah. The second one is awesome.

E

Together, we request a postpone petition of david, a sinclair and nicole d j gusto owners.

B

For property located four six: seven, sixty five middle street, wherein permission is requested to.

B

Allow the new construction of a detached garage with living space, above as per plans on file in.

B

The planning department said property are shown on assessor map 148 in lot as lot 37 and lies.

B

Within general residence a in historic districts, so we have those too do. I have emotions sure I.

H

Moved to postpone those two tomato right: okay, all those in favor, aye, aye, opposed.

B

So now we have petition of marcia c peel and gary evan lowe owners for property located.

B

At 105 south street, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an.

B

Existing structure add solar panels to the existing roof line as per plans on file in.

B

The planning department said property is shown on assessor map 110 as law 11 and.

B

Lies within the general residence b and historic districts who was here to present this gary lowe.

T

105 south street and with me I have bacillus papa zacharias from the sunron corporation.

H

um Well, nick just left he uses. Usually here goes through the the uh a little rundown of what you're.

B

Doing here well high off the roof they are and what color they are, etc. Okay, fine. There are 12.

T

Panels in all, and in the center of them is the existing chimney from 1925 still functioning with.

T

The furnace below it there will be wires running over the back of the of the north side of the roof.

T

And down the side where all the utilities come into the building to the inverters and the net.

T

Metering system that goes to the public utilities that metering system the panels themselves are.

T

Black, you can see that in the fourth and fifth sheet of the application and they'll be surrounded.

T

By gray shingles, which exist now allowing fire department to go up the sides- and you know, have.

T

Access to the rest of the roof, that's looking north down the sidewalk at the panels. This is they.

T

Aren't there yet this is represented by sunrun. They did a good job from the front of the house.

T

They're invisible and from the other direction, they're invisible. It's only looking north that.

T

You can see this section of the panel. I can show you guys. um You have to go up to the microphone.

B

Put your name in please how you doing my name is vasilis papa zakarius.

W

um I can show you guys, I do have photos of the actual panels on a.

W

House different house, obviously, but just if you guys need a reference for viewpoints.

B

Certainly, hmm some of them uh are, you know very black, and some of them are bluish. You have to go.

T

To a microphone if you're going to say yeah so just uh just show us yeah, they have the.

W

Skirts on the front, obviously these are turned the other way uh for gary they're going to be.

W

Vertical, but they all put the skirts in the front that way, you don't see it underneath them at all.

W

um Mr birds and squirrels out there are bugs I want to say about this.

C

B

Thank you. Is there a squirrel guard or something around the.

W

Perimeter again, you can't put a squirrel guard if you would like to, but typically.

W

Most uh critters do not go underneath because they don't like the temperature.

W

Experience but they do sell credit cards if that's an option that you wanted to to put on as well.

W

But we do put the skirts in the front that way, you don't see it. Thank you. Okay,.

T

These solar panels in this entire system is a temporary leased system. I pay zero dollars, sunrun.

T

Puts it on the roof wires it into the system, they take my electric bill and they charge me that fee.

T

Monthly, so, instead of paying the electric company I'd pay them net metering sends my excess energy.

T

In the middle of july, back to the power company and when, in december it's darker, I draw from that.

T

Credit: okay, it's a 25-year lease and at the end of that 25 years I won't be around the the owner who.

T

Owns the house that'll decide whether they want to continue and the the solar collector efficiency.

T

Drops what 10 percent during that period, yeah they're about 90, still efficient um in the end.

W

Of 25 years, sorry, hmm the first time doing this so um so yeah the the panels because they want.

W

To crystallized that they last about 30 years or so in the 25 years is still about 90 efficient.

W

um But in the end, the 25 agreement that we have they can remove the system at zero cost.

W

To them, what we do is we can remove the system patch up the roof, no damage done, uh they can.

W

Upgrade to a new one or they can purchase a system and keep it longer if they wish to.

W

um But in the end, if they wanted to remove it, that's an option there and we can still do that.

W

um But that's all off to the homeowner: they do have the options for that if they want to.

E

Good question: you had any experience with the.

E

Of the solar panels, the coating or it's a film that makes it look a little bit more like shingles.

W

We don't sunrise, I believe, does not carry those now. I don't know if they sell something like.

W

You know like on on the market like amazon or you could buy like a a sheet to put on or something.

W

But that could affect the production, but the the problem is, if you were to fiddle with the system.

W

It avoids avoids the warranty because we warranty the system it maintain the system to take care of.

W

It so if you were to fiddle with it, you know to to change. You know the the actual structure of the.

W

System or to to remove something out of there to add something to it. It could void the warranty so.

W

That's something you know that it's not suggested you know, because we we put a production guarantee.

W

On it- and we we guarantee to gary that we have to produce this amount of power, and we do a true.

W

Up report every two years to make sure that it's actually producing what we promised them, or else.

W

We have to compensate them for the loss plus to fix the issue. That's causing that you know.

T

It's a new concept in solar energy energy production. When I first moved.

T

Here I was transferred by sylvania, where I was designing. Solar energy covers and high.

T

Intensity, solar covers made out of glass, and it's been a long time since then. The furnace.

T

In this house is from 1925., it's an old coal boiler runs on city gas, not very efficient and.

T

Looking at the unh science results, the ocean is going to be in my backyard in about 15 years.

T

And I thought this might be a good way to stop using fossil fuels.

T

Healthy for the environment, healthy for the house, I believe I'm not sure you guys might.

W

Know too, I believe the state of new hampshire has a renewable goal that it has to submit to as well.

W

By I think 2025 by 2030. and I'm not sure if they I know utility companies might get fined for that.

W

If they don't comply with it, but eventually everybody's getting that you've probably seen.

W

It a lot of massachusetts happening a lot and a lot of the cities in massachusetts.

W

um A lot of the older homes I mean any homes, pretty much they're moving into seoul. The ones.

W

That are capable of producing power that don't have trees blocking. You know the section, because.

W

It's just pretty much the only way to generate electricity right now: cheap electricity, cheaper.

W

And cleaner is, is that's the way to go, really that's the way that everybody's going, but okay.

T

Thank you and I just happened to buy a house that has 240 degree angle. That's just perfect.

T

With a 45 degrees, no trees and back back 20 years ago, when you approved me putting a dormer on the.

T

Far side of this house, I beefed it up with individual collar ties and big plywood peak.

T

Bracing as well to support that structure as well as now, this.

B

All right so do we have questions or comments here, yes, margo. um So the first thing I noticed.

C

When I went to take a look at your site, is that, unfortunately, there's a very long view down south.

C

Street, your house and roof is visible, a long way away, and the fact that these are black against.

C

Gray means they're, they're gonna stand out quite a bit and we have approved solar panels for the.

C

Historic district, but usually where they're not highly visible, unfortunately, that the aspect of.

C

The front of your house happens to be visible, so that's why I gave you that shot, so you could see.

T

Exactly what you're going to see so my question: is you have a little addition out the back.

T

Oh, yes, is it large enough or capable of taking some of the panels that are so visible in the.

C

Front and moving them to the back so that it's less visible, that back section is the kitchen.

T

Areas of both units and it is lower than the main roof being shaded by the main roof.

T

So there's no sun hitting half of it: okay, okay! So that's probably not a very good option. All right.

C

My question was answered. I noticed that too you have the alleyway. That makes it even more.

E

Visible when you're going down south street so you're going to see it from a long way.

E

And it's quite visible and we're struggling because we worry about global warming too.

E

And and the original the original roofing, a historic district, I know and and the view.

E

And one of the things I know, that's your concern and one of the things that was presented and it.

E

Hasn't been built yet so we're eager to see it was this idea of a glazing that only reduces they said.

E

Three or four percent of efficiency, but makes it less glare blends it in more with the roof.

E

But I still worry about the visibility here at the start district as a scientist and I had solar labs.

T

On top of gte sylvania, there we couldn't find a glass covering which has the highest transparency.

T

Relative to plastics and other polycarbonates that had lower than eight percent absorption.

T

Okay you're saying three: I've never heard of such a thing: bachelor science, rit.

T

See that these lenses take 10 of my transmission.

L

Yes, thank you um as a city councilor in portsmouth, I have to be in support of solar panels, as I.

L

Possibly can we're dealing with rising tides, we're dealing with environmental issues everywhere.

L

um We get monthly a letter from the middle school students every month telling us. Why aren't there.

L

More solar panels. In portsmouth we had a student who's going to do a study on city hall. You know.

L

And see, take a look at our electrical bill and see what benefits we could get. um I've.

L

Been called out personally for not having them on my own restaurant downtown. um I I think obviously.

L

It's our job up here to be concerned with how everything looks I think, if you took possibly if.

L

You remove the first two panels that are closest to the street. Then it would be much less visible.

L

um But I do want to be as supportive of solar panels as I possibly can, because I know.

L

If we just always put looks first and like all these other issues, they do have a question. Can.

W

You put the photo on of the um blueprint real quick. Is it before three? I think third.

F

So you mean these two yep. You mean those two right rich. Yes, so you were.

W

So if we were just two panels closest to this yeah, because we can still redesign if.

W

We, if we would have to um to do it like I could go back to my engineering team.

W

And um have them take those two and.

W

Maybe push the system like a few inches over to fit him in the backside. You'll get one back here.

F

You might be able to get one back there.

F

Right, meaning.

A

The chimney the chimney would would cover that that um it would shade it, so it wouldn't be.

W

A lot of production on it. um What what I, what I uh I'd say, is if we were to.

W

Say to push the system say a couple inches to the front. Remove those two front panels.

W

Put them in the back side onto the left right there yeah.

B

What do you think gary yes, reagan, wait wait um in order to have the.

W

Same amount of panels to get the production that that he needs for the house understood.

H

um I have the same concerns about the visibility also really want to see us put more solar in town.

H

um You've got it's loads of free energy that we can be harnessing.

H

um My concern with the historic district is that it's been in our guidelines that it should not be.

H

Visible from main public ways- or you know, on the fronts of the buildings and facade views.

H

um And so we've been trying to be as consistent as possible with applying.

H

That so, I think until we as a group can come together and say: okay, we are going to allow.

H

Solar panels to be more visible on our historic buildings.

H

I can't support this because it's inconsistent with what we've done in the past.

H

um I don't I personally would like to see more solar panels. I personally don't see them.

H

As terrible as some changes and alterations could be because they are reversible, you can take it.

H

Off and you have your roof back and it's it's all fine, um but it is a major visual component.

H

Question um the original roof when I bought it in 79, was black the old asphalt shingles. If I were to.

T

Take that gray surround away and make those black shingles, so they match the black collectors with.

T

That sway your artistic subjective view, not really. I think that would be helpful. It's the glass but.

H

It's it's the visibility of the glass and again I want to support this. I just want to be consistent.

H

I want our decisions to be consistent, so I think that we have. We, as a group, have to figure out.

H

How we're going to move forward if we all want to okay? Can we work with you on that? I mean make me a.

T

Demonstration case, if you wish tell us what you'd like make decisions- and this is a visible case and.

T

It's a great roof for it and it's a great company. I I've never heard of this concept, everybody that.

T

I know rich deep and tima everybody they put panels on their roof and it's twenty five thousand.

T

Dollars and there's a payback period and dear rich is a friend he's 77 he's never going to see.

T

The payback but he's running his heat pumps off of these and his his electric bill is maybe 15 in the.

T

Middle of the winter, you don't have to convince me, I know I know, but the way he does the visual.

T

um I just want to be positive with our community and see what we can do in the historic district.

B

um Let's just let us comment here: yeah, okay, I won't be supporting it. I'm sorry! um I I just.

J

This would be the uh this would be horrible for our community in terms of the historic.

J

District because your ha your roof is perfect, so is your neighbor. So is your other neighbor.

J

I I just can't support that um outside the district. I have my own personal uh thoughts about.

J

These panels I mean where are they manufactured? I believe they're assembled in the united states.

W

Some material probably does come from the china like everything else, so I won't be supporting it.

L

Yes um I'll just say, I think that we should treat every case by case. um I do you know. I.

L

Don't want to treat anyone differently than I treat someone else. um You know solar panels is.

L

A new technology I mean, did we do this when we put in electrical meters and electricity, you know I.

L

um But I think we need to start moving forward. I think they already exist on 90.

L

Pleasant street am I correct to this yeah or to prove that yep, so we have improved solar panels.

L

um I definitely will be doing more research and coming to present uh some sort of policy change.

L

I think at the council level, um because I hate to see this and it's going to keep happening.

L

And that's: why we're not going to have renewable energy in portsmouth? um It's going to only cost.

L

Our taxpayers, our residents and all of us so um but I'll, just state that and the energy running on.

T

The phone poles comes from coal and uranium, okay and that's visible and was never here historically.

I

Mr chairman, um I'd like to say I'm I'm, I recognize the color issues. I think.

I

There's uh but, along with the color issues, it is textural issues, there's also reflectivity issues.

I

um And and I for me it's too soon- I'm I'm not ready for this uh on on a street in the south.

I

End and I've got a house similar to yours that will someday be underwater. If you could promise.

I

Me this these solar panels would make it so my house didn't end up in the water I'd be on.

I

It- and you know that um I I think that the time for the historic district to reconsider uh solar.

I

Panels on our historic houses is when we're done filling in all of the flat roof buildings in this.

I

Town where the roofs are completely invisible to all passenger buys, and we have tons and tons of.

I

Them, if that's, how you measure flat roofing, I'm not sure, um but there are lots of opportunities.

I

Other than the most sensitive textual structures that we have in town and I'm just not ready.

E

um And to rick, I think our previous approvals for solar panels have always been on the back.

E

Side and unfortunately, there's no, it's not a good way to go well, you did one.

T

With skype we've approved, you can't see from the streets no, but you can't put it.

T

Oh, I know that, dr dan, so you can see it from all the way down court street you're court street. You.

B

Look it's right on the corner where the fire was yeah, that's right! That was one of our very first.

H

Applications for um solar in the district- and it was kind we kind of- did it as a as a trial to.

H

See how people liked it I'm not I'm not getting judgment, I'm just saying that was yep. Well, uh I.

B

Would just like to to make some comments also on this, um I'm in full support of this project.

B

um You have a essentially a 1900 new england style house.

B

Where the what appears to me some kind of asbestosiding on it absolutely so, it has.

B

Asbestos siding on it, which is a 1920s technology. Actually, it worked out pretty well in the end.

B

Because I I've noticed that most houses that have the asbestos siding removed that the wood is.

B

Usually, in generally pretty good condition, having said that, as reagan said, these can be removed and.

B

They are a rental situation, so they might be removed and maybe they'll have come up with the.

B

An entirely different system at that time, I'm afraid that if we as the historic district start.

B

To really buckle down on these things, as it appears that we are now.

B

We are part of the problem, not the solution as much as I love the historic district. I do not.

B

See these panels as a problem, I see them up on the roof there. They are okay, they're, solar.

B

Panels- I don't not going to look at them. Why would I look at them? I'm going to be looking.

B

At the house itself, I'm hoping that council of blaylock will follow through on this and uh as.

B

Mr adams said: yes, there are a lot of flat roof buildings, something else that could be added as.

B

Far as an ordinance goes is that certain amount of space on flat roofs could be required. The same.

B

Way that they require that these people have to now put sprinkler systems in all these buildings.

B

20 years ago, sprinkler systems were very rare, but now they're, you know, have to be placed in quite a.

B

Few buildings, so that's my opinion. You know that if, if, if you can take this away from us, I would.

B

Be happy, I'm sorry, does your company have the same deal with commercial property owners or industrial.

F

uh We only do residential, we do not do commercial or industrial. We focusing on.

W

um Residential homes, only um it's a big problem, a lot of most you know, most of the homes get their.

W

Power from the grid that's been built back in the 1890s, but you know when it first started, but.

W

um Wouldn't everybody else too: the commercial and industrial use the same grid. Absolutely they do.

W

Yeah, but you know, there's other companies, sunrun and tesla are the only companies, I'm sure tesla.

W

Probably does commercial too and most most commercials done by dealers most of the time.

W

um Sunrun just focuses on residential homes right now, only.

W

So we we're concentrating that we'll specialize at that when we do, you know when we do jobs on homes.

W

um Everything is under one umbrella, so we, our crews, only do homes to make sure that the job is.

W

Done correctly, the first time it's done, you know we don't do any other buildings. We just do homes.

B

So um if there's no other discussion I'll ask for anybody in the public to speak on this, could I.

B

Say one more thing: oh certainly yeah. Commissioner blaylock. I challenge you when you're making these.

T

Decisions and when you're coming up with new plans enlist the children that you're talking.

T

About because they're, the future of our time, I'm 71., I'm not going to be around in 20 years.

T

But get those kids bring them to your meetings, they know what's going on and they want to help.

T

And they probably love it as a school project yeah. No, I agree um and it'd be hard to make them come.

L

To the meeting- and you know I know- middle school students probably pass their bedtime invite yeah yeah. I definitely will invite them and encourage them to write letters and please.

L

um No, I definitely will okay, thank you because it's coming and um so there's nobody else out.

F

There well, there is yep okay, um david sinclair david. Do you want to talk onto this issue.

F

Online, am I unbeated? No, we can hear you david, okay, great. I also um am concerned about the.

M

Visual component of this, when he moved down south street with the sun glaring you in the.

M

Eye in additional to the solar panels, it's just not visible. You can't see the traffic. I.

M

Actually see a safety issue with solar panels uh reflecting sun right back to your to the driver.

M

That's all I have to say thank you so much. Could I address that? Yes, when you're driving.

T

In a southerly direction, these panels are not facing you. The sun is in your eyes. Yes,.

T

But these panels would not be reflecting to the north going down south street all.

B

Right, thank you very much okay, so I guess I'm going to close this and I look for a motion.

H

Suggestion or something there there was talk about moving these panels around, maybe taking some of.

H

Them out or something like that, I don't know if you would like to bring that design back to us.

H

um Anything that you can do to improve the the non-visibility of these up towards the front.

H

Of your building, um maybe even photoshop in a darker roof and see what it, what that does to.

H

The look, even though you know, I'm only so so on that one, but so I didn't know if you wanted.

H

To try and come back with that, because I at this point it's too visible for me to support, nobody's.

H

Gonna, you have to take your um the microphone yeah. You live there, there's one you can pull out.

B

So, if that's the case, then I would have asked for it continuance is this.

W

On okay, that's all I was asking them right into people's tv sets.

W

So from you know just to keep it.

W

Because I believe like if we, if we remove these- and I think if we come like a couple inches.

W

Forward we can put those flush with the with the roofing, but I can I can give talk to my engineer.

W

And see what they can do design wise. Personally, I would like to keep the production the same.

W

um But I'll obviously want to keep you guys happy as well too. You know to to make sure.

W

That that we kind of meet in the middle you know to both parties be happy. um So what I'll do is.

W

I'll email, my engineering team, so I'll remove these two: can we actually put the photo.

W

um Back on with the roof with a photoshop roof, so yeah the other one.

W

So actually I mean obviously I photoshopped that without measurements, so I'm assuming that's going to be roughy somewhere right.

W

Here but if we remove like one line- it's probably gonna be around here somewhere.

W

Like visually wise.

E

Yeah yeah, I'm not sure it makes a huge difference. You're good talking to them like that, you need.

F

A mic yeah, it seems like if you are coming back with this you'd- need to look at reduced production.

F

To come up with a significant enough, except if we, if we end up putting it.

W

um In the back side, where the kitchen is and then we'll see what the production is.

W

um So meaning like remove whatever's on the front here up to the chimney, yeah.

B

um We could do this as a continuance and then you could come back after doing further.

B

Engineering, if there's anywhere, you know that you can do what you had just suggested.

B

uh Removing them up to the chimney and try to put some on the back, and maybe uh you know, get.

B

As many yeah, I believe we have like nine of them. There are these the highest power um panels. Those.

B

100 watts or two those are 390s. Actually, oh, my goodness, uh those are the 39390s and the.

W

Ones that they came up with and the backing is uh it's a clear backing. Actually, it's it's a.

W

um You know the old ones used to be the blue, and then they had the white backing on them. This one's.

W

um There's two different ones that we have now they're watching they're like black on black or.

W

Black and clear which, which pretty much makes it look all black like a mirror yeah a little.

W

Profile, so would that be all right for you? Would you yeah absolutely I can I can. I can talk to.

W

um Whichever whoever's talking yeah, I can definitely talk to my engineer, see if we can move.

W

I think we can move three of them into the left, then the other six, I believe we might be able to.

W

Put them on top of the kitchen, which is in the back edition, and hopefully the production is.

B

See what you can do you know the same, because I do want to make sure.

W

He gets enough to to power his house and to have enough power that you know to run everything uh so.

B

um Move to continue yeah, that's what I need. Second, all right, um all those in favor aye against okay,.

B

So please come back with. Thank you. We will nice to meet you. Thank you. You guys want some cards.

T

Ever heard, yeah he's really good right here.

I

At the htc meeting, everything's a win yeah, so move yeah. Whatever.

H

Adjourning yeah motion to adjourn. Thank you very much, all those in favor bye all right. Thank you.