City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 11 May 2022

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From YouTube: 5.11.2022 Historic District Commission

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5.11.2022 Historic District Commission

A

Good evening should I say dr brown, I'm sorry. I I've skipped that I know years of your life.

A

Together, retired, um so our first order of business is the administrative approvals.

A

And um reagan has recused herself on 160 court street, so we'll do that one first, did you announce.

A

Two people are absent, did I miss them? No, I didn't have two people yeah counselor, blade, lock and and.

B

All right do we need to vote on the withdrawal request or just it's just a withdrawal. Is that.

C

The pleasant street yeah you could do that. I mean what was drawing 92 pleasant. I guess what's wrong.

A

Okay, we have a work session, that's uh requested to withdraw why we need to vote on it, but.

D

That we uh accept the request, withdrawal, okay, second, all right, all those in favor.

A

No more excuses, all right, administrative approvals. We have we have four tonight. I.

C

Think two went out originally at the end of last week and there were two added on decor.

A

Street first sure, with both core streets, no 160., 160., okay, 160 court street is, uh I think, there's.

C

Three main revisions to the previously approved plan. I know carla's here I'll, give it a shot.

C

The changes are all pretty evident on carla's drawings here, they're.

C

Looking to revise the the front door on the on the.

C

So-Called liner building go from four four glass panes to two one per door.

C

You can see very clearly the door they want to replace the approved door.

C

That's number one number two. I think they've got a a simpler or different.

C

Eve design- that's already been installed, so a lot of this has come out of the review from.

C

The planning department prior to occupancy and they're revising that that eave design.

C

In the cornice along the same liner building and then third and final, I think there's.

C

A cornice and trim band that's also been modified from what was previously approved.

C

All pretty was there anything else, yeah pretty straightforward to me to my eyes.

C

Anybody see it differently, uh so if somebody would just make a motion we'll just vote.

A

On this separately, move to approve second, second, all those are proves say: hi, all right.

A

And let me again: okay, okay, we're good for the other three, no recusals right right, all right.

C

So 381 middle street: this is a replacement of the front steps. Just show you a picture of it. I.

C

Think it's a significant improvement. The existing steps are concrete and they're they're failing.

C

And they are proposing to replace those front steps with granite treads, and I I guess uh that's.

C

Probably a cultured stone, it says here it says in the description that they're leaving the concrete.

B

Underneath, oh not doing that right, so those are just the steps just putting the threads on okay.

C

Well, hopefully, that's gonna yeah that'll work on the top. If they do it like that image.

A

I wonder how that works for the bottom step or the top one? Well, the top one they'll lift.

C

Right if they do that treatment to it, but the bottom one yes, will be more than seven inches.

D

You you lose somewhere yeah, yeah, there's also on the current concrete steps. There are it's like.

D

Sometime a couple of schmoozes ago, the steps extended the treads extended beyond the carcass.

D

Of the staircase, uh it's inferred in that and you can see it if you know what you're looking.

D

For on that photograph, it sort of suggests that you're going to have to snap those off there's.

D

I don't think it's going to be quite as simple as they think it is no. I mean these projectors.

E

D

I assume that they're going to wrap the sides with this cultured stone, also, no, no we're hearing.

C

They're not no stone, no there's a note they're not doing the cultured stone they're just going.

C

To leave the concrete, probably repair it and set that I see on top of each tread. So the first step.

C

Instead of being, I mean they're lawyers uh if they can manage the liability of the first step being.

C

In trouble, that's right, they're lawyers, as long as I think the stipulation is that somebody from the.

D

City should look at that because I, the stairs, said the one thing that really happened: the building.

D

Inspector will yeah yeah well, just somebody should give him a heads up that he needs to go. Look I'll.

C

Make sure I make him. Thank you very all unless you want to okay, that's 381.. Give me two seconds here.

A

Okay, we've got all night, oh it doesn't seem it uh all right. So then we're we're at 65 rogers right.

C

65 rogers is a pergola and if you want to know how to build one, there's enough images in here.

C

To to do one yourself, it's it's pretty thorough, um so it's in the rear yard, but I'm looking for.

C

The bookmark don't see it I'm going to scroll this way, because it's in this isn't keep going.

A

Yeah it's this laptop's, not the one. We normally use. Okay, so.

C

Zoom out a bit, there's the house. Guess it's where's the street to our right.

D

Okay, so it's a side yard. Thank you david. I guess these are computer.

C

Generated designs of the pergola in the side yard looks like some, maybe a fireplace there.

C

Anyway, feature yeah: does anybody have heartburn with that? I think so all right. So the last well.

A

Assuming it's all you're going to do good, no we'll go! Let's do the last one 170 court, one more.

C

Although it could be problematic, uh see joe on the front row, this is a city project. This is the.

C

Firehouse on court street right next to 160 that we started with.

C

Apologies for the scrolling. This is the existing condition.

C

Of the firehouse, these are the existing doors, the six that are along court street.

C

Four being taller or larger in the middle and the two outside doors being a bit shorter,.

C

And I think a little bit narrower, but the doors I guess are very heavy and there's some structural.

C

Issues with those doors remaining in place because of the weight that they would like to replace.

C

Them with a lighter door, so initially they had filed an application to show a more horizontal.

C

Window a mountain design than the vertical of the of the existing. There was some suggestion.

C

Made that maybe it would be good to have it remain vertical, and this is what was submitted.

C

As a substitute joe, do you want to add anything to that sure as the project manager yeah, we initially.

E

Didn't we were mistakenly told that we could not um that this pattern was not available.

E

So when we inquired further because the horizontal pattern of the grilles is really jarring, as you.

E

As you can see um they, um they did agree to modify the design. So um some of you might.

E

Know back in 2007, the facade of the station went through a very significant structural.

E

Repair that all of the door bays all the bricks and the granite bases were taken off completely.

E

And rebuilt and the lentils were rebuilt with all the keystone and so forth um to enlarge some of.

E

The doors there have been um several uh sorry, not several. It's happened two to three times.

E

The doors have come off, they're, actually off the track. So they've come down onto the fire trucks.

E

Which has been a problem and sometimes the doors don't operate, they're incredibly heavy.

E

um And it takes three firemen to lift to disconnect them from the um the machinery.

E

And to lift them up, it's very it's very heavy. The new doors are made by the same company.

E

uh It's a the existing doors are are all solid wood with insulated glass, which certain they're.

E

Thicker than the new doors, which certainly adds to their um to the weight, the new doors are made.

E

By the same company and but they're thinner and they're lighter and it's a composite material.

E

That is paintable and will be filled, painted a matte green to match the existing green.

D

Sir, yes, great question: ask a question. uh The words that exist now appear to me and I didn't measure.

D

But they appear to me that the solid portion was just described, the doors as being in two.

D

Parts, the glazed area and the solid area yeah and the solid portions of all the doors appear even.

D

Though the openings are different sizes, the solid portions seem to all line up right now.

D

And, and in the proposed view they do, um I assume that that's something considering that you're.

D

Getting them to change the characteristic of the mammalian yes pattern, that's something.

D

That you could probably do absolutely yeah. I I just speaking for the commission. I think that.

D

We would find that more pleasing yeah and you should know the existing doors are four sections.

E

So that they're bigger pieces, the new doors, are five section um so, but that line you're talking.

E

About where the um or the solid ends and the glass begins, that that can remain a constant all the way.

E

Across there have been other you've done, other made other attempts to belie the fact that the.

D

Doors are different sizes right by changing the size of the header materials and and keeping the.

D

Keystones in place, and so it seems like you, the theme that you should be working with here is.

D

A sort of symmetry absolutely so david. What? What would a stipulation look like to make that happen?.

D

uh A line the wayne scott portion of all doors- well, I'm looking, it doesn't even need to be.

E

A stipulation to be honest with you, I can give you um the shop, drawing show the the two bottom.

E

Sections of both sides doors to be exactly the same. So is this rendition? That's off yeah! Yes, yes,.

F

This one yeah ever so slightly good eye, but yep yep. Thank you, okay! Thank you. So.

D

uh That's it. That's it yeah. So if we could, uh if anybody has any comments or wants to.

B

B

I know that we approve the three administrative approvals all right. There are no stipulations.

B

Because we're correct all right I'll, second, that, okay, all those in favor, say.

G

That's yeah, so we're moving right along into work sessions. Old business uh work session is.

A

Requested by one reigns avenue: llc 31, llc and 203 maplewood avenue, llc owners for property located.

A

At one range ab, 31 grain tab and 203 maple wood app wherein permission is requested to allow the.

A

Construction of four five five-storey mixed-use building and five-story hotel. As for plans on.

A

Final in the planning department, such properties shown on associate matt 123 lot. 14 mat, 123 lost.

H

Who's here good evening, carla goodnight from cj, architects, evan tormy from xss hotels and.

H

Jake weeder also from cj architects, welcome. Thank you good evening now the games begin.

H

Glad that you're being positive.

H

Beautiful day, yes, um so we've uh we've done quite a bit of work here uh we have some massing updates.

H

Some updates to the mixed use and some updates to the hotel and then we've.

H

Given you some combined views at the very end that we had spoken about last time, so.

H

Let's start right with 1.1.

H

On 1.1, we have still have the setback. uh What we've done per.

H

Your suggestions at the last meeting is redesign the recessed and glazed massing elements.

H

At the entries to be lighter and more of an eroded form, as opposed to an added form.

H

And then we've done the same sort of carried suit through to the hotel.

H

And then we've lowered the cornice on the maplewood ave side as well. So there's a little.

H

Modification there 1.2 shows the massing recessed massing elements carried around the hotel building.

H

And the moderate setback on the top floor and again we're just following the same massing.

H

Language around both buildings, where you could see the most impacted, would be the maplewood.

H

Half piece there so moving on to 2.0 is where you can really see uh the revisions we did.

H

uh Add the um starting from the top. The penthouse originally had a very.

H

Pretty strong and impactful cornice and moving down the floor. The fourth floor did not.

H

In our last iteration and it does now moving down again to the third floor, we did pull up that brick.

H

So that it is much more balanced and offers a little bit more of a screen for the residents.

H

And then, as you come around, the recessed area with glazing has been added and as opposed to.

H

The more blocky black brick form that was not well received at our last meeting, we've we've continued.

H

That around the center front- and I do think it's a very nice improvement to that maple wood piece.

H

And we have lowered and modified the cornice at maplewood. You can see it very nicely here.

H

So that and then also we've modified the window pattern to be more of a traditional.

H

Cottage style, because last time it was kind of a double hung.

H

Straight up- and I like the way, the bottom sash of the cottage sort of picks up on the.

H

On the square grid patterns of the commercial and the recess pieces.

H

Moving on to 2.1 carrying that recess piece around to the residential entrance, we have.

H

Still have retained the masonry, sills and lentils, we have some brick work, which will be detailed in.

H

The final, as well as some soldier courses and some expressions of different uh brick patterning there.

H

Around the top of the building, and then um we have added a glazed entry canopy at the.

H

Lower right inset on 2.1 at the residential entry and we've added uh these uh tie rod tie.

H

Backs for the overhangs that we had before so they feel a little bit more supported.

H

Than they did as opposed to cantilevering out, they have a little bit more uh relationship to.

H

The building you're going to use those tie backs on all of the the uh awnings canopies.

H

Yes, yes, they're this they're uh rendered in there, but they're sort of far away in the one shot.

H

Again, you can see the clapboard siding and the more articulated railing details.

H

As well as just the banding carrying up on the upper floors, uh moving on to 2.2.

H

uh Gives you an idea of the penthouse step back really revealing four floors here? You can see.

H

The tie backs a little bit. Better, are the rods at the entry canopies. We have significantly recessed.

H

Storefronts there, as well as the balconies above so that creates some nice modulation and.

H

Again, the cottage style windows carrying around and 2.3 again our view across the pond.

H

With the thin glazed entry at the pond side for where the residential carries through, we had.

H

Originally had that larger mass that we really wanted to scale back glaze it, so it's lighter.

H

And just much you know much more subtle. I do like the glazing from this view, really breaks off that.

H

Front piece on maple wood, which I think is really very nice in sort of balancing those two forms.

H

And I know you like to pause at the end of mixed use and talk about that before we move.

H

On to hotels, it's too confusing so I'll, um we'll uh so we'll talk about this for.

H

Comments from everybody concerning this first building on maplewood avenue, who wants to start.

A

Ray again when you're right across from me, I don't I don't want to start okay, but thank you.

B

For asking very good um start, just a jump in here. If you don't mind, mr chairman,.

D

I I think that the the piece that you've done on the mapwood module.

D

It looks the way that I was hoping it would achieve when we were making our comments.

D

A month ago, um the modulation I I'm, I can't say that I'm hugely comfortable with the modulation.

D

Of the sides using these files of balconies and and window walls, but but I see the pattern in it.

D

And- and it has, I keep thinking that it's breaking the building into smaller.

D

Bites which is, as we all know, how one eats an elephant, and uh I I I sort of uh sort of on board.

D

With the textural uh canopies and the canopies having some structural connection to the building.

D

I'm a little puzzled by how many entries there are on the reigns, ave side of the building, but.

D

I think much of what you've attempted to do or what you've said that you would try to do with.

D

The last work session you've accomplished with the breaking of the building the lines of the.

D

Building the separation of light and dark spots, the recessed areas all doing something I I even.

D

Think that well I don't know if you're going to do much better at not so much disguising.

D

But reducing the impact of the fifth floor of the building than you've accomplished here.

D

Is what I think thank you very much? Okay, let's not get too carried away here.

F

Dan, what do you mean anything? I think um our biggest concern was the mass on maple wood.

E

And the mass on the pond, I think you've done a nice job of bringing it down to looking almost.

E

Like three stories, so the houses across which are only two and a half.

E

Start fitting in and the mass is saved for the hotel, which is way back and doesn't bother.

E

Me as much so, I think you've done a nice job. I think we made it hard on you initially. We wanted.

E

Not much mass on maple wood and you came with one story and we didn't like that. But I think this.

E

Three story and then bring it around the corner: pretending to this three story, even though it's.

E

Five is: is a nice compliment and nice way to do it, so I'm happy, I'm I'm glad. Thank you all right.

A

Keep going on the other side here, martin sure um yeah. I think we're moving in the right direction.

I

Though I will, I will say that the canopies also marry um timid, very tame and- and I like.

I

To see something, a little more bold, a little more sculptural that really marks entrance.

I

And I also think that it'd be a nice feature if some of that the language in the canopy is also.

I

Reflected in in the balconies, the balconies also, I like the railings, but.

I

You know it's a it's a difficult, detailed that recessed canopy and maybe if something is a little.

I

Done a little at the rail and at the floor level, it might take your eye away from the.

I

Fact that you have these these, these recesses uh corn is the same thing. I think it's a little.

I

Timid a little, it could be a little more bold uh could punch a little more.

I

You know I I just I just feel like something more can be done at the.

I

At the street level- and I think the canopies would probably get you there, so that's my comments. Okay,.

I

Thank you karen. Would you like to help? This is the one I'm recused from I'm very sorry, margo.

J

Every time, every time this comes up, I walk the site again and my opinion hasn't changed with.

J

Regard to the mass, as a matter of fact, I I think it's getting to the point where this.

J

Would end up in the model at some point soon and I'd be interested to see.

J

What it looks like I'm concerned not only about the milkman side, but I'm now concerned about.

J

The choking in of rain's avenue what this is going to look like.

J

When you're walking in that street that's become like a canyon, yeah, okay reagan, you're alive.

B

uh Two sides that are.

B

I guess I'm not really again blown away by the design, it seems very um I I said.

B

Boring last time which some people like boring.

B

It's it's simple, um but I I feel like there could be more to along the lines of what martin was.

B

Saying that I think you could do a little bit more to kind of just bring some more interest. Maybe.

B

Better cornice, I don't know, um and I think that um it will.

B

Also depend a lot on the quality of the materials, um because some of the images that you use as.

B

Your inspiration, stuff are nice buildings, they're well done so I think if you're gonna.

B

Kind of bring in some of those materials, rather than just you, know, kind of a you.

B

Know flat veneer brick, and you know things like that. I think it's just bringing into some good.

B

Details that will make it a better looking building. I I'm fine with. I I've been fine.

B

With the um massing of this building, so I'm comfortable there, um and I do think that the way.

B

We've you've got it set up, it is broken up, it's better, so it doesn't mean. I think that um the.

H

Traditional massing would be, or the traditional uh skin could be, a really nice backdrop for some.

H

You know more uh flamboyant sort of uh you know touches, so you have.

H

This backdrop and these pops, I think we can pull that off and we have this side. This side.

H

Yeah, I don't think any of us are ever going to be truly happy with this, because I mean this.

I

Should have been a series of little buildings that go all the way down to the water and had.

I

You done that you never would have survived that process of being in the foot setback so.

I

This is a good alternative. It's a good confidence. Thank you.

A

So I would just like to comment also that I feel it's um it's certainly improved. It really has.

A

With uh with the cornice um the the emphasizing it a little bit more on maplewood avenue, you only.

A

Need do that three-story section. If you wanted, you know you don't need, do the entire building.

A

Cornice as it wraps around by the mill pond, unless you you know, feel that it's necessary.

A

I would still like to see something um some more detail on the entryway on maplewood avenue.

A

I know that you've got, you know just glazing in there and.

A

Just doesn't seem enough, or maybe it should come up over the roof. I'm not.

A

Sure how that works out with the people that have you know up on the roof there there, but.

A

It would be nice if you had some kind of emphasis that on that and I I would like to see the.

A

Canopies, especially the two entries to the apartments.

A

Have some more oomph to them? Have them larger? You know, maybe have more of a cast.

A

Iron kind of look to them, or something like that. You know, uh rather than just.

A

Starkly modern because you know you've made this you've come halfway with. Excuse me, the.

A

Regular openings for the windows with the what we call cottage style windows, which.

A

Okay, well I'll agree with that. um So you've got that so you've brought that in to your.

A

Language- and um I I don't see there would be any problem with having more traditional, looking.

A

Canopies or something like this wow nick is showing me some canopies.

A

Canopy, there's no way you could put that up on anything. A number of canopy.

A

Yeah yeah, I can't reject that she's seen them actually, oh you've seen them. I think I have the.

F

Same ones, they're very unique, yeah. Well, you know for a few thousand dollars it gives it.

A

A little pizzazz in the front, but otherwise I'm uh like mr adams, I'm pleased with what I'm seeing.

A

The only other question I have and, and I'm not I don't know the answer is, would the.

A

Fourth recess fourth floor and the penthouse fifth floor: would that be better dark than white.

F

That's a question we'll think about that: yeah we'll consider that and take a look.

H

At it, because it does seem to stand out and um gray or gray or something actually, the.

A

The fifth floor: canopy, if I could you know when I'm looking at the expanse of the building on 2.1.

A

Up there, just you know when it's white, like that, it just looks like I don't know.

A

Something base housing or something that you put on the fifth floor. You are going to have to be.

D

Quite a distance away from the building before you see that, though yeah and you'd have to be.

A

Very high and true, true, I think, you're pardoned no, you would have to be. uh You know there would.

D

Have to be a multi-story building over at the cemetery, which is never going to happen.

A

Yeah, that is part of the problem. With this perspective, like that, can I just make one more.

B

Quick, certainly, I just want to caution you against doing a soldier course on the um furnace. Okay, that.

B

Would seem unsupported, I just feel like it doesn't make sense right to have a soldier course sticking.

B

Out it would be sort of bricks hanging out there. I don't know it just if you do just one with no.

H

You know no transition pieces, it would be weird yes, but you need transmission transition pieces.

A

So I guess that the opinion of the majority is that you're certainly well. I felt like it was.

H

Clear direction, what we need to practice, what we need to focus on, so I think that's.

H

Always good news, okie doke, all right. Moving on moving on to the elephant.

H

The hotel um again, we have uh pic we've actually, given you two different options here for the entry.

H

Style, whether we should on the left pick up the same language that we're entertaining for the.

H

Mixed use or straight on in the front, should we be looking at something a little bit more.

H

Reminiscent of what's on the ac, with kind of that, you know, wing sort of an airline wing.

H

Sort of more modern look, um so that was one option there that we were thinking about.

H

We did do the carrying of that corner element that was well received. We brought that whole expression.

H

Into the entry which I think works really well, I think it starts to be very organized that way.

H

And then we had a larger, uh a larger overhang on the top floor and went with the darker color on.

H

The top floor and we're still doing the recessed bands in the brickwork on the ground floor level.

H

So we have that textured element there and you can see the hierarchy of glazing, which is.

H

Larger and more prominent over the entry and at the at the focal point of the corner. So that's all.

H

All working and then we went with the lighter the lighter cladding material as well.

H

So so that's the the current style that we're working with on the hotel, which of course.

H

Carries around so going to the next page: 3.1 you see that entry and that light vertical metallic.

H

Form is is really the uh focal point. As you come down vaughn street. um Turning the page we kept.

H

The vertical white vertical elements, but we did minimize the uh the drive under area so.

H

It's not quite so prominent. I mean before it was extremely prominent. So now we've just sort.

H

Of balanced it in the architecture, along with the rest of the openings and the and the rhythm.

H

So I mean it is a hotel, so it is certainly has that hotel look uh from this side, but.

H

I think those bands go a long way towards really breaking that up and.

H

Making it look sort of you know, compartmentalized moving on to 3.3 the view across the water.

H

We do have a pedestrian door. There, that's uh a little bit. We narrowed.

H

The garage drive under to just the drive lane and then introduced the pedestrian access.

H

To the left, maybe you can see it better on 3.2 you can see well the tree. Is there I'll move.

H

The tree next time, but on 3.2 and there's a canopy over that door, is it right in that.

C

Tree right, three point: next picture: you'll see the canopy right next to the garage. Yes,.

H

I gave up too soon. Everybody informs me that it's a little better on three people.

H

There are a lot of trees there, so um 3.4. You can really see how that drive on drive lane.

H

Is anchored by those two uh white or silver gray, vertical pieces and framed by that with the with.

H

The banding horizontal banding that carries all the way across and then the door with the canopy.

H

Over it is next to that, so that really dials that whole thing down and defines a pedestrian walkway.

H

We've also looked at stacking up some traditional masonry, banding and brick soldier course. Details.

H

Along with you know, what that is will be clearly spelled out in the detail sheet.

H

um And then again, 3.5 uh from the pond. Looking across into again, we picked up that.

H

Corner element that was uh really ties it all together, so we have the front corner the back.

H

Stairwell corner that we discussed last time as well as the front entry, so.

H

That's where we are with the hotel, and we do have uh the four series which shows the two together which we can speak about.

H

um Afterwards, if you'd like to do the hotel.

H

Commentary at this point yeah: let's talk about the book all right start again, david.

D

I I that the hotel is not as flashy as it was, uh removing that uh heavy granite, brutal sort.

D

Of uh frame over the entry, the drive-through area, I think, has lightened the building a great deal.

D

And and I'm I have to say, I'm still sort of trying to wrap my head around it because I realized just.

D

Realized that it has more than four sides I I'll catch on. Eventually I swear, but there's a there's.

D

Something about the rhythm that I find interesting, I I I do appreciate the the window sizes sizing.

D

The the individual window units- I I recognize how important to me having a window of sizes rather.

D

Than filling an opening with glazing, there's much of this that I'm I'm pretty pleased with. Thank you.

E

It's certainly the larger mass, but I think it.

E

Fits well there because there's larger things across the street and coming up on its left.

E

And it looks like a hotel, which is what it is, and I think it's a good.

E

Place to put it, I think it's fitting in better with the other buildings.

I

The same thing applies to this building. I think a little more something at the entrance.

I

This entrance is you kind of got a different canopy on the I'm. Looking at three 3.0, the canopy.

I

On the on, the left is different from the canopy that is kind of like the main entrance. Yes and.

I

You know that main entrance seems very sparse and there's.

I

You know, I don't know the I'm having a problem with the scale of three. Yes,.

I

That little building off of 3s has got to be 12 feet tall yeah. It does seem a little small.

I

And the doorway you know so I think there's a problem here graphically but anyway um it.

I

Just it just looks like this building went out of business, there's nothing going on at that street.

I

Level- and you know it's waiting for it should be a big sign when it said you know, for sale.

I

I just think you need something strong at the ground level and strong to mark entrance. Also.

I

um Is that corner I'm still looking at 3.0? Is that a corner or stairwell? It is yes, okay and.

I

That that would be why this windows are on the lane. The elevation gotcha.

I

Okay, um is there a door at the at the base? Yes, okay, maybe a canopy there as well, just some more.

I

Pedestrian friendly elements, uh human skilled elements at the base- I think, would go a long way.

I

With this building, what are the the black little black squares that I see throughout? Thank you.

H

Hvac, oh okay, okay, little louvers, they're tiny. uh What was that hvac louvers? So a little eight.

F

By eight uh louver for water source heat pumps for the hvac system for fresh air into the guest rooms.

I

And I will lastly say that we, we know.

I

In both cases, in both buildings, I I think you're going to have some major units on top.

I

So it'd be nice to handle them architecturally and then not just after the fact.

E

Nothing to add.

B

um I'm sort of less attracted to this design than I was the first one. um I I think.

B

There's a lot going on in terms of the brick areas with the brick, the different brick.

B

Textures and then these sort of more contemporary corners and vertical elements.

B

And then, on the back side, these sort of the vertical strips.

B

It doesn't to me it doesn't really hold well together, as as a complete design.

B

I'd love for you to go back and kind of and play with these t-shaped uh muttons.

B

That are in all the windows, I think all the window. I mean, I agree with dave in the.

B

Window sizing and all that stuff is regular and much better than it had was before.

B

Not a fan of these the sort of tea bars in the middle of them. It gives it a.

B

It to me it gives a again like one of these very incongruent styles of like that sort of like sort.

B

Of 70s hotels or office, building type thing and then you're bringing in these other panels against.

B

The brick- and I I find it very- um I don't know I find it confusing to have all these different.

B

Materials and textures, all together in one very large building.

B

And I don't know that the eight inch setback on the top floor is really enough to.

B

Do anything I think you'd have to set it back farther or why bother.

B

So there I'm sorry, I don't have much more positive to say about it, but I don't find it.

B

As strong as a total design as the first one first one other the other building, the mixed use.

K

The other building, um so I would like to agree with martin on the entryway: I'm not really a fan.

A

Of the white- uh I don't know it just this is an urban building where this street and.

A

Margot hit upon it, but yes, this street is going to be an urban street. There's no doubt about it.

A

It already is so it's a series of four five-story buildings as it comes around.

A

There's going to be another building down at the end of green street, this whole section.

A

Of portsmouth is, um has been built up in an urban way and for some reason, this building.

A

Doesn't play into that that story that narrative and it it um I know, you're.

A

Trying to make it look pleasing, actually, the back of it, I feel, is more successful.

A

um Because it has more of an older urban look to it, which I kind of like. But.

A

So maybe it's just the white all the white on it. I don't know I'm not used to a brick building.

A

With all of that uh modern white and the the t-bars, that um reagan was talking about you've.

A

Successfully, you know gotten rid of them on the entryway. You know with having the middle muntin.

A

Go up all the way um on those windows. Is that top section of all the windows in the hotel rooms.

A

Is that a panel is that a metal panel or or is that a glass window? That's glass, yeah.

A

Okay, but certainly we could play with the configuration of those- and you know maybe.

F

Those smaller windows that are the just the t are a different configuration that and we.

F

Maintain with the larger windows that vertical uh all the way through so I think we could certainly.

F

Differentiate and is there any way that columns might work on the canopy, make the canopy even.

A

Larger and support it with columns instead of hanging everything from with chains and.

A

Rebars, not rebar, but iron rod. Everything is hung all of these canopies. Is there any way they could.

A

Be one of them could be supported, especially on the hotel. You know this is, you know, make people.

A

Feel really doing something when they check into this hotel all right. Look at that. Just an idea.

A

But in general I think we have a lot of acceptance all right. Some people have some problems.

H

So I will, I think, part of the problem is there's and you can't get away from it.

I

You have a repetitive quality with a hotel yeah, but one thing that might help is, if.

I

If the sort of the pen, all the penthouse windows, were just a little bit bigger or a.

I

Little bit smaller to just differentiate from the body of the building and maybe that'll.

I

Help in some way, you know that's something you'd see in a more traditional. I think we.

I

Did have those a little taller previously and we had made them more consistent when we changed.

F

The entry windows, because that started to feel like there was too many lots of things happening.

H

But see what you mean, we could certainly look at that again.

I

I think, because it's the repetitive quality that we're all you know trying to avoid: okay,.

D

At the same time, find certain comfort in yeah without it getting too messy all right.

I

You're, absolutely right balance. Oh yes, all right um have given your agenda. I will just.

H

Give you some quick highlights on the four series of the two buildings together, because you've given.

H

Us your comments, um I just wanted you to see the two together in context, and here you can.

H

See really why we're sort of leaning towards the lighter top floor and the mixed use and the darker.

H

Top floor of the hotel, so they sort of they can offset each other a little bit more on 4.0.

H

And a solid portion of the fifth floor on the hotel: yes, yes and it might look.

D

A little bit frightening if it was in the light, color right, yeah right um and we're really pulling.

H

These vertical elements as light, so it made sense to go, dark there and then go light again on the on.

H

The uh mixed use, uh one of the things we're doing, is trying to pick up more of a rust colored, brick.

H

As as it comes around to 3s, just to make that transition.

H

In color, rust, colored, brick, yes, more orange, less red, it's a little difficult to really.

H

Fathom that in the renderings, but that's the intent and then again the hotel does bring a.

H

Lot more brick to the ground, uh which you can really see them in context together on 4.1.

H

And then looking the other way on 4.2.

H

So it gives you a sort of bookend look about the the two buildings are very different. Looking so.

H

It does not look like one mass complex, we're really trying to design them as two separate.

H

uh Elements to avoid that the feel of one big big mega complex there. Instead, it's just two smaller.

H

Pieces you're going to use the um similar street lights like they used um with the office building.

A

Across the street across vaughn street, or I think we're required to by the city- yes, I mean.

A

So maybe you could grab some elements off that for canopies yeah, something like that yeah. um You know.

A

One thing I wanted to say I did see, I don't know where I saw it in here. Maybe my part of the site.

A

Plan and you've got, um you know this walkway and then you've got this kayak launching thing.

A

And you're saying this kayak launching thing is um possible. It says possible. Kayak, launch.

A

I think this is something that other boards are going to be looking at. Maybe it's not for us.

A

I'm thinking that one of the really driving things that's going to make people say well, you know.

A

It's another hotel, but we have a kayak launching place on a mill pond. We have a public walkway, all.

A

Around the pond, so to me that these things should be part of the project is what I'm saying yeah.

F

And I think actually, that optional should have been removed because we did get recommendations.

F

From the conservation commission and the uh planning board that that we proceed with the.

F

Permitting of that, and we will work with the city and and d.e.s um but yeah in your grass.

A

Okay: okay, and uh is there anybody uh david one more? If you don't mind, um I I'm sort of.

D

You know we're looking at different pieces. Pardon me for coming in late on this one, but.

D

I see that you're bringing the facade brick all the way down to this to grade. um That's a.

D

Sometimes a difficult thing to pull off and have it work.

D

And there's also an issue of decay from splash and wondering if, if you might be better getting ahead,.

D

Of that, by putting some sort of a base element in that, isn't your your siding, brick, um you can look.

H

Into that, just just to throw that out just one one in the comment, because if walking around town.

D

Which we all do you notice many places where it's played well in places where it's not certainly.

D

Polished granite is not playing well. What would the salt on the sidewalks and we've seen that lots.

D

Of places that's true, and I um I did speak with jeunesse about that, a few years back.

H

And their recommendation is, there is a they need to be sort of for, in common terms, back primed.

H

Before they're set into the cavity wall so that any moisture that's in the wall- and you know- is.

H

Weeping out is not really. Stones are like sponge, you know, they'll just come through and pop the pop.

H

The front off so a lot of that is happening from coming behind, as well as the the front. It was the.

A

They spray a brine product on the sidewalks before a snowstorm, an ice storm quite a bit.

A

That's contributing but that sort of spalling is uh really coming sometimes from behind.

H

Well, I'm hoping yeah because it's starting to look pretty bad they've actually lost.

A

On port walk some of the buildings, maybe three quarters of an inch of the material in some areas.

H

There's been a you know of uh evolutions in the building envelope, technology that have.

H

Improved upon that, it's continuously changing and evolving. So it's that's sort of the latest.

H

um And dean, if you look at five, the five series it'll give you the how many sides of.

H

The building we've got going on here and the hotel the floor plans. Help sort of you know.

H

Sure all right great, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh I'm. Sorry.

A

I'm very sorry, david, threw me on I'm sorry.

A

A

Tell me that you're going to make a synopsis of this. That's your meeting notes um good evening.

L

Elizabeth bradder property owner 159, mcdonough street, I'm hoping you got my letter, I got we.

L

Had I t issues at the city, and so I was doing the mad letter writing yesterday for all of the things.

L

um Could you bring it to 1.1 to show the um I think, that's the front of the mixed-use building.

L

Sorry, I lied go further down the one that shows the front of the mixed use build there. It is good.

L

So when I look at that building, all I see is those garage doors on the bottom and.

L

It's very traditional on the top and to me, those garage doors, look very ultra modern.

L

So that's something that's I'm uncomfortable with and then go to 4.0. Please.

L

There are a lot of other options for garage doors, so 4.0 that the white area on the left side, that.

L

Many of you liked to me looks like an elevator shaft, which it may be, but it seems when you're.

L

Looking you're going to be standing on maplewood ave and seeing that and what sticks out when you.

L

Look at that is that white area, so my thought was many of you suggested changing that to be.

L

A little bit more artistic, but my thought would be to make it a little darker in color, either to.

L

Match the top or to make it a gray, or something like that and I do have concerns about the mass.

L

Especially on the side by 3s art, space, 3s art space is really 20 feet. Tall 10 feet, 20 feet tall.

L

And you've got a 60 foot building next to it. The other three buildings in that area had to have to.

L

Step down to the 3s art space, 53 green street stepped down, I think, to three stories. Three us.

L

I mean uh um ac hotel steps down there and so does 145.. So maybe when the massing comes out.

L

We can see what that looks like, but the issue for me is when you're looking down um vaughn.

L

Street you see 3s art space and then you see this gigantic. Building on the left, which is going to.

L

Be right next to it, it's going to be even closer than than 53 green, and I mean yeah and 53 green is.

L

Quite a distance away and ac hotel is is further away and it also steps down so other than that.

L

I agree with everything else she said. Thank you. Anyone else before we move on to the next project.

F

Thank you very much. Thank you. Don't forget to vote to continue us.

F

Yeah we'll be back. Thank you very much. We are continuing your work. Did you vote.

A

So work session, requested by port harbor land llc owner for property located at two russell.

A

Street and zero deer street, where permission is requested to allow the construction of a new free.

A

Standing structure three to five story: mixed-use buildings.

A

Per plans on file in the planning department said properties are shown on recessive map, 124.

A

As long 12 path, 118 is lock, 28 and map. 125 is lot 21 and they lie within the character.

A

District 5, downtown overlay and historic district who was here to present this project.

M

Brooke slocum from sga with ryan palmer from international ball clark and welcome confirmation.

M

So we're hopefully nearing the end, but we will find out after we we've spent a lot of time in.

M

The last uh month or two before we haven't seen you guys so it's great to see you all again.

M

Nice to have masks off freely. Do you have any brownies or anything like that.

M

I got some. I got some some brickies um so today we kind of want to go through our.

M

Package that we feel we've kind of put a lot of effort into, and hopefully we can get some.

M

Good responses on any of the outstanding items, I think we've been working with you guys pretty well.

M

All along so hopefully yeah what you see. You've had a chance to review and have some.

M

Good comments um we can skip either. Obviously, all the way through to we've seen many of these early.

M

Phase sites views the rationale, the local context, our analysis of the site and its local areas.

M

This particular one has got a couple of new items on it, which are identifying root, decks.

M

um As if we were we're still debating the material for construction on this building, so we've limited.

M

These roof decks to be uh 750 750 square feet so, but we if we do switch to a more robust.

M

uh Structural, we can obviously enlarge those, but we just want to have a minimum. At this point, we're.

M

Still working through that, I would hope I'm just going to kick this out right now. I would hope you.

A

Could also find room for some solar panels of some sort up there also, I think it would.

A

Be a shame to construct a new building in 2023 uh without some consideration: yeah. Yes, we're! You know.

M

We're working on a bunch of projects where that's important, you know required by the the state and.

M

It's what we're are finding it's really hard to get him but uh understood, and it's uh something.

M

We'll definitely talk with the development team for obviously you've seen the breakup of.

M

How we're breaking the massing enlarging it and then turning into a bunch of smaller buildings,.

M

And in the scenario where we've got two residential buildings and one office building.

M

Along maplewood avenue, we've been working trying to make a little bit more of a main.

M

Entry to building two, which we think has been our more important corner, we've spent more time.

M

Playing with the landscaping and trying to clarify exactly how these buildings are broken.

M

As we move along the sidewalks, there are some very strict requirements you all have, which is.

M

uh The first floor, glazing has got to be enormous, and the upper floor have to be reduced quite.

M

Dramatically so trying to get all that to work, we now actually have it all working. So um that was a.

M

Lot of our refinements over the last few months, trying to get all that uh being exactly right.

M

um Next, those again from the street, we um sorry screen, oh well, we'll get there and the screen's.

M

A little bit off but we'll get to that one. Next, um we do have a a perforated screen that we're.

M

Looking at for the garage and we're playing we'll show you a little bit more about what.

M

Some of our thoughts are and how that could be woven into some of the history of portsmouth.

M

And maybe that could be an important piece along how people walk along these pathways.

M

As we've talked about before, we've broken this into four different building.

M

Window types, the recess, the juliet the bay and the fixed and with different.

M

Orientations we're trying to not make the facade look the same while giving it a little bit more.

M

Character but making it buildable in a way that is a little more appreciative of the development team.

E

You also see in that previous page, we added the divided lights to all the windows as well.

E

So I think in the previous iteration we had very large panes of glass, and these are much.

E

More broken down and kind of a you know more industrial sash type window. It wasn't.

M

um Necessarily a recommendation, I think we found that the scale was more in keeping with the size.

M

Of these buildings, it felt much better I'd love to hear your guys, opinions on that. um As we've talked.

M

About we've got the samples the physical samples here, but the intent here is to have a progression.

M

Of brick from one end to the middle and then back to the other end of the ending in metal. um To give.

M

That continuity, I think these are all revisions to the models that that you've seen in the past, but.

M

We've been trying to refine everything, make it look a little bit tighter. Obviously, the.

M

The hard stone base the limestone and then the brick and metal facade as they start to wrap.

M

This is the building one, the office building with a recessed entry, uh taking advantage of.

M

The curve and then matching it on the inside with an entry piece on the corner of maplewood and deer.

M

This is right along maplewood, so it's the rail track. We haven't really given the.

M

Walkway between the rail tracks and the buildings, a name, but it is a pedestrian friendly, slash car.

M

uh Garage entry uh walkway, um but that again and then every 50 feet along these major roads. We have.

M

To have a entry door into the retail space, so that was also a huge challenge. While we walk up 10 feet.

M

Along the building and trying to keep all that together, so you'll see some odd areas where we.

M

Had to slope to get the doors to fit within the slope of the buildings, it's a little kind of an.

M

Essence, we're playing with some lighting just to get a sense of it in this one. We are showing.

M

Building mounted lighting that can go up or down, we may not be able to do the up.

M

We understand, but we're just testing the water and love to get again some feedback from you all.

B

Is that could I ask a quick question going back to that? um Is that the I I realized.

B

That the grade change is so different there, but it seems like that entrance is.

B

Really tall like it well, you know that's it's the challenge right, because by the time we get up.

M

It matches the height and you know in a proper retail space, the higher the better, because you.

M

Can have more flexibility, um it's not as tall as we would like, but we we do have sections where we.

M

Identify the actual heights and stuff okay when we get to the residential buildings, because those are.

M

Five stories, instead of the four-story office building they're, even it's.

M

It's even lower. uh We would like them to be taller, but we're sandwiched yeah, because our.

M

Slope is forcing us to have a slightly higher average grade plane than we would like, but.

M

It's good to have a tall retail space. Believe me, there will be some vendors that, like it are those.

F

Homes there, no those are yes yeah, so we have we'll show a little bit more of it. Go back in.

M

This one's you know it's interesting because we're not projecting we are projecting out and.

M

We do have, we do have tie rods that are picking up our metal canopies, but in this scenario we wanted.

M

To kind of create something that was more in in that corner, this is a very important corner, as.

M

You all know coming down maplewood as the street bends away. So this is, you know that response to.

M

It both inviting, but also you know, standing and holding its ground oops. It's fine roll away, no.

M

There we go, and then these are just some simple vignettes of what it might feel like.

M

Down the muse, as you walk across deer looking at the office building, how this might feel along the.

M

Tracks, because we do see when we get to it the park that we're you know contemplating at the end.

M

Of the third building three, this could be a pathway for people to find their way across.

M

Over to maplewood along this walkway, but is it a pathway or is it a road? It's a driveway.

M

A driveway to go to our parking garage on the ground floor, but it because that's very.

M

Limited traffic and we'll we'll obviously have stops for people, so the cars can't just make a.

M

Shortcut from green to maple wood, which could happen so we're going to make sure that that.

M

Doesn't happen, you'll have to have a card swipe to get into this. So most of the time.

M

It's going to be a walking a wunder rough boner yeah. It's a german word for fancy. Driveway.

M

um But you know the intent here is is to walk on. I mean people are crossing the tracks.

M

Right now across the parking lot, so this is a slightly upgraded version um and it does make.

M

And when we get to building two we'll show you how that becomes part of potentially the fabric. And we.

M

Have a sidewalk as well along there. um We have the landscape um plan showing the connection through.

M

The muse to the to that rear. This is a nexus way. No, this one doesn't include so we actually have.

M

We've integrated in some of our landscape plans as we're going through we've actually integrated.

M

Through the muse, you can actually walk through that rear area. It's connected, so it doesn't just.

M

Turn into pavement, basically, okay, so that's kind of the intention as we started to look.

M

At the muse- and we said if, as people get there, they kind of terminate on this pavement, we don't.

M

Want that to happen, we want them to be able to walk around, so I would suggest you turn your.

A

Microphone a little bit towards you, a little yeah we're good, though okay, um so I I think this might.

A

Be a time to just have a slight pause and talk about building money comments, because you know.

A

The rounded portion is certainly unique, well done, but who wants to talk about it? There's still more.

B

Pages of that building, this is just building one, but we can talk building one building, one.

A

Anyone dave, ah I I you know it's it's handsome, it's really handsome. I.

D

I don't know if I could say that it belongs in my town, but it's handsome.

D

I have a dilemma.

B

I would agree with that. um I think this is what I brought up last time too.

B

I think it's a very attractive design.

B

It's a good it it's a good building, so I mean that I think.

B

It's well designed, and I think the curve part is interesting. It's all very good.

B

This this very tall entryway, um is very grand and elegant, um and so it so I think it's great.

B

But but I had the same sort of feeling, I'm like how does this fit into portsmouth? It.

B

Still seems very boston to me very much more cosmopolitan than than portsmouth is um so.

B

Yeah, I'm kind of I need to I kind of walk by and try to imagine it and and try to imagine.

B

This very grand entrance on this corner, this very prominent corner and the other four things and and.

B

I realized across the street is one lot that is going to be totally redone, so we don't even.

B

Know what's going to end up there um but um yeah it just it it. um I'm I'm bound to announce that.

M

When you put it in context with the buildings that are already there,.

M

And the ones that are potentially coming and the fact that it's on the the major boulevard of.

M

The the street there you know the the uh the port walk place. Building has a fairly grand front piece.

M

And it's actually quite a bit bigger than this corner. um The new gray building is, is fidelity.

A

That's in there they've got a big glass yeah and the big the building that, where we're looking and.

M

At the gray, building that you that just got finished is a pretty predominant piece. These.

M

Are all trying to play off each other and I think the three new buildings will will influence the.

M

Next, building and they'll all actually start to create a real rhythm with each other. That's.

M

The way we we're looking at it, but you know it's your town so yeah. This is too nice for us.

I

We're beer tasting: this is a fine wine yeah. No, I I think it's a wonderful building. I and it.

I

To me, it's it's a muscular industrial looking building and I love the curves. We have curves.

I

And we have architecture you're walking through columns here and you're, experiencing pedestrian.

I

Space at the street level- um no, I I think this is wonderful and and uh to me it's got. I love the.

I

Tension between what is very classical at the base and what is more, modern and industrial sort of a.

I

An early 1920s deco kind of modernism as it goes up, so I think we're I think we could handle this.

E

Anybody over there sure I like it very much. I think it's great it's very handsome.

K

I think it's I like this design better than anything that's been built over there.

K

So if those were good, I think this is better. Thank you, I'm absolutely in favor of this. I think that.

J

The this particular building in its location needs to be a bridge between the traditional and the.

J

Modern and we already have in 145 144 maplewood, very, very modern, different materials, lots of.

J

Different shapes and port walk place and the hill across the way- and here you have a mixture.

J

Of contemporary some contemporary materials, some very modern materials, some contemporary styles in.

J

The limestone at the base, the heavy cornice at the you know what I would call a crown molding.

J

Up at the top, um so I think you've sort of wedged in between these two worlds, something that carries.

J

A little bit of each each element- um and I think our town deserves this quality of architecture.

J

My only comment would be looking at the views. Nick, oh, it doesn't have a page number, the one with the.

J

Four, all four views keep going, that's it! No! No! No! No! The elevations, I think, are the elevations.

J

Building one in relation, oh, give me a page 26. that one right there that way, so the.

J

West and the north elevations, they they they're very plain now they're just and that, and it may.

J

Just be this particular style, it's very flat. um Hopefully that won't look like that in.

M

So in reality, yeah- and the only reason we put these in because they're part of what we need to.

M

Quantify that's! Why there's so many renderings before, because in context, that rhythm is we're.

M

Trying to not make it look like it's jumping out at you that it's supposed to be there and you got.

M

To have some rhythm- and you just had a building up that had some very simple rhythm. But there's.

M

Little pieces here that make it so much more dramatic because the the simple rhythm of the bays.

M

At least that's the way we we interpret it, but you know obviously it's it's. Your town.

E

Sorry, I love the curves. I love the reverse curve. I I think this is a transitional area from.

E

Some great history to a lot of new modern buildings, and I think it does a good job of.

E

Merging the two and uh I'm not worried about these elevations, obviously there again it's.

A

You have to be high to look at these, so you'd have to be standing on the roof of.

A

That um what used to be the portsmouth herald building, I can't remember the number of it.

A

That's 111 11, 11, yeah and, and just looking at this straight on, you know and you never would you know.

M

You're never going to be doing that sort of thing.

A

um I'm very uh very impressed with this design. I really enjoyed this particular design.

A

Could I just add one more comment, certainly um if, if we go back- and I noticed none of your.

I

One one thing that does bother me: a little bit is coming out at a port walk place.

I

You do feel that there's the transition be the break between building one and building two.

I

Is a little a little um yeah a little bit angled out so that you're you're.

I

Kind of missing something there could it taper to. I don't know this this angle here.

M

You mean this corner, the relationship yeah, the relationship between port walk place, and this.

I

Between the two buildings, there's not a nice sort of transition. What's interesting, I think.

E

We need a more zoomed out site plan, because port walk place does curve, so we're kind of continuing.

E

That motion yeah page 11., oh there, you go yeah, so the intent here yeah. So it's a little horrible.

M

Exactly yeah exactly so, if you go back even further right here, you see the alignment. You know.

M

Go back just, I think, keep going back to page 11. there you go so what happens is the reason.

M

We added that element was because, as you see the street, it continually makes that turn. We wanted.

M

To not then force you we're actually allowing that same turn to come from the from the theater.

M

If you walk down that and you see it implant, it continually makes a move and we're just one.

M

More step in that process, because the muse here is really just an extension of all those incredible.

M

Public spaces that ties down and starts bringing people across the street. You know when we get the.

M

Train tracks to put a crosswalk it'll be awesome, but that whole bend right after port walk, plays.

M

Line it goes again and that we're just trying to pick up the rhythm of the town- okay, you've sold me.

M

Okay, yeah, you know it took me a while to get right here to approve it too. So.

M

But you know even even that round piece that you see you can see even in this drawing maplewood.

M

Comes in and it it runs by that curve um and and allows you to keep going down the street.

M

I think that was kind of the, and it's only again the curve on building one is the maybe the more.

M

Masculine version of the more feminine version on building three, so it's you know so, hopefully.

M

The two parts play well together, as we talked about all right, can we do two uh yeah just to.

M

Get back to the one more back one! These are just two more drawings one before that. That's the entry.

M

So that's what you feel um you kind of have the exposed columns, blah blah you've seen all that.

M

And these are the two building facade types on that building and the material kind of break up.

M

Okay, building two all flat doors: yes, we're not not curved glass! Sorry, we just can't get it returning.

M

Yeah, so we had a building uh uh uh uh revolving doors, yeah, we're not uh at that need for this.

M

Scale building it doesn't have enough movement. There's not gonna, be that many people walking.

M

Through it, it's not big enough to justify. You could do it if it was something that the developer.

M

Was interested in doing, but I don't think it's right for this building nor this town actually.

M

But again just playing through it. um This is uh we we're going to show three versions.

M

Of this one shot and it's really to try and talk a little bit about how to treat.

M

The top of this uh main entry we've been, I think, since you got the bizarro one in there too,.

M

No, we didn't make it fun of other buildings, but um we thought we'd show it just to kind of put.

M

It to bed because we tried it at one point and we thought there was some interest in it. But I.

M

I don't think it actually works with the building and- and maybe we were, these guys got mad at me for.

M

Putting it in, but um we did, what we did do was raise the entry up to the two floors with the.

M

Limestone and then just do a kind of a larger, more aggressive bay window piece above there are three.

M

Versions of this, so this is where the cornice is a little bit in line. I think and then option two is.

M

A little bit higher, we might need a two or three foot variance to be able to play with that. A.

M

Little bit to give some, it doesn't look like it's enough of a change, and then we do the bizarro.

M

um And we don't actually recommend this, we just wanted to put it to bed, and hopefully you guys.

M

Agree that we shouldn't do this yeah, um okay, good yep, this working session. You know because.

F

Z, zippy designs, a building. I just thought I saw it on another building. I don't remember.

M

But you know it's a good characteristic to put away. We, we think, having a little bit.

M

More flexibility is good, but we, but but we know it works without because that is the height of.

M

Your maximum height, because this is the highest highest part of the site- we've had to drop the.

M

Plaza a little bit just to be able to get floors to work because of the 10 foot grade differential.

M

So this is how we've we've hopefully been able to answer that question.

M

Love to hear more feedback when we do that um along the back. One thing that we talked about.

M

Briefly and we're starting to do a little bit more working on this screen is um we think it's a.

M

Great place to put a little bit of portsmouth history, so the next sheet.

M

Is we've looked and found some fairly cool old shots and one of them the one in the upper.

M

Right is the train station right at this site. um The other one is the waterway across the water.

M

Across the river and some other collages there's some of the buildings that represent the hill, so.

M

We thought it would be really fun to have that as the screen and when you buy screen now you.

M

Can give them the file and they'll just poke the holes and turn it into kind of a visual.

M

For the city, I think that might be kind of a fun thing to have, as this intermediary.

M

Piece in between the other two buildings, um I'd love to again hear what you guys think about that.

A

Crazy, let's see this is too good for our town yeah, but but you know, we'd want to work with you guys.

M

Just I think uh there was a project a couple of months ago, where you were worried about the whale.

M

Or the boat imagery we'd like to kind of play back and forth as this gets finalized. uh What the.

M

Exact name should be, these are the best ones we've found, but I'm sure you probably have better ones.

M

um Online um again here it is at night, what's nice about this. Is that there's this kind of.

M

New cooler rhythm of extending the site and getting it to flow around the corner.

M

We know that there's not enough opportunity to do lighting in the plaza, but we're trying to just.

M

Keep it as low level as possible straightforward, rendering images the upper plaza for the for the.

M

Residences above the garage and then some lower level, entry and extra pieces so again as ryan.

M

Said we're working with our landscape architect to create some more patterning inside the brick so.

M

It's not so monotonous, but in this scenario, what you do is you come into a bowl. um You drop down.

M

Into a more low a two foot, two two feet about two foots um some planters and then you have to ramp.

M

Up and down to keep the doors at the right level along the building, which is our challenge here.

M

Skateboarders, uh well, it depends on how good they are there's little razor blades in the water. Now.

D

I don't like the looks of that yeah which one the razor blades in the water. Oh, it hurts, but.

M

Yeah but but it is, it could be. I think we've been tossing back and forth those, and I think it goes.

M

Into planning the planning board, but um that plaza could be a really spectacular place to appreciate.

M

The hill, it could be a really nice place to gather and move east and west it. You know we think it's.

M

A pretty pretty exciting place, especially if you came down through the muse. You have another.

M

Spot to come and rest and and move around the buildings, we don't want and we don't think it's.

M

If people ever do use it, but it does give you some opportunity, I don't know that they're going.

D

To understand your rules or suggestions, but boy there are places in town where people congregate.

D

I don't know if there's a way to predict where that's going to be, but.

D

It does happen, there's nothing and we're trying to create opportunities in this building. For that.

J

Yeah usually involves coffee, it does, but we've heard no coffee in this building and this uh maybe.

A

This uh some sort of dynamic to this corner here, because in the last iteration of this plan, they.

A

Also had a kind of a small park here when this was going to be whole foods. And then, if you go back to.

M

It we don't have really a choice, um we're getting we're getting that park because of the realignment.

M

Of of of uh russell street and we're basically holding the property line with the building, where.

M

There's a little bit of extra that we're. You know we're handing back, but that's what's left.

A

Okay, so it's working out that way, yeah, I think we don't. If we could, we we would have eaten it all up.

D

I may be jumping ahead too far, but the conversation whole foods and coffee shops.

D

Signage, what happens have you thought about that? So that is an interesting one. I think we, you know.

M

What we have here is um we have louvers, I think it's 18 inches 18 inches of louver, that we're.

M

Going to need in some respects- uh and it's if you go to one of the renderings where you zoom.

M

Into one of the the front entry pieces, um you can see it's above the window. There is an opportunity.

M

There we have not necessarily looked at it too deeply, yet because that's a branding issue, but we.

M

Would want it to be as complementary as everything else it's just a last week I had a conversation.

D

With with mr cracknell about a stretch of retail buildings that have no continuity,.

D

Between them, even though they're all really very much in the same place in the same little street,.

D

And- and they suffer, I believe, heavily for identity because of the fact that they're all competing.

D

With each other and and it gets kind of lowest common denominator, when you start doing that, yeah.

M

I think the development team as well, we wouldn't be able to put signs up unless you all were.

M

On the same page with it, I don't imagine right, but still you could architecturally provide.

D

A thing that not so much forced people inside of the lines but encouraged people inside of.

D

The lines, so it's a good, it's a good point. What we have are the canopies over the entry doors.

M

Along the facade, all of them have them right, yeah. So wherever we have a an entry door into the.

M

Retail space there is a canopy and in that canopy it's I think it's about a foot deep, there's plenty.

M

Of room to put in some signage, if that was enough, but I think it's, those are one of those things we.

M

Develop in is we get further into you know the the design development just to be able to make.

M

Sure that it fits what they're going to do, because it's only a single user, then we've wasted a lot of.

M

Energy, if it's a multi-user, if it's a bunch of people, but we could look at it as well for the.

M

Last one maybe we'd throw one or two signs on and see what they look like and see if you're.

M

Happy so you've, given us a lot to think about on this building, can we just have a little short.

A

Comment from everybody, uh we've got potential of signed pictures on the back of the building.

A

We've got a grand entryway. We've got this. What do we got? Martin yeah, um I in terms of your options.

I

How about I mean how about how about option four that you know put something up there.

I

Put some cap on there, some sort of I mean right now this we got a lot of these um flat top roofs.

I

And you are, you are integrating the roof with some uh spaces, you are having some roof decks.

I

You know here seems like a real opportunity to mark that that significant entrance way.

I

uh It doesn't have to be option, one two or three, three three is in the right direction, but it's not.

I

Handled well, it's it's awkward! It's look at these guys, but I think there's a four that needs to be.

I

Considered um because you're kind of just flying around that corner- and it's you know I I think.

I

That would make a difference um yeah the question: there is the extent of the variance in which we.

E

Have to seek, I think you know the the well. I thought that was what you had already.

I

Well in these, in these these one and two we're not really seeking a variance in.

M

Three, we're definitely saying we need a variance okay, we can't go any higher with that.

E

Yeah the massing right now says you can have you know you can go 10 feet up.

E

But you have to be 10 feet back so we had we studied that, but you can't really see something.

E

Like that, if you're at the ground, you have to be so far away that at that point it's not really.

E

Referencing, the entry anymore, it's just kind of something that's sitting on there. Well, I've.

A

Got a maybe I've got a suggestion, because this little thing landed on my shoulder and a little.

A

Bird suggested something- and it makes a lot of sense- is uh that um maybe play off the athenaeum.

A

For a roof, if you're going to have to get a variance for a two foot, cornice right now, then.

A

You might as well go up a little bit further, and so, if you had some sort of uh raised much higher.

A

Cornice, maybe with scalloped edges and then maybe a rail, a modern version of the athenaeum rail.

A

Which at one time went around that entire block of buildings in market square at one time um an idea.

M

Yeah, I think it's what I think and ryan jump in and.

M

What we would love to do is get an understanding that we are meeting your code and that you will.

M

We can approve and move forward on a separate track after that we can talk about, while that.

M

May or may not happen, the variance at least the whole project is installed on the fact that we.

M

Haven't gotten a variance for this one little piece of the building like an ad alternate as.

M

I can add alternate, but we we need to meet your code and which is why we have option one and two.

M

And- and we we agree by the way- we're these guys would kill me, because I I threw that.

M

Roof on just to make fun of it, but but but it was here to have a conversation, it wasn't.

M

Something we're gonna put in the final package, but I definitely wanted to have something in.

M

There to have this conversation, because it's really it's the hardest part for us is trying.

M

To figure out how to work within that envelope and and create something that you already have in town.

M

Okay, if that's a path that we can take, we'd love to be able to true the final package. I don't think.

D

Anyone here is kidding about it. Yeah I mean, I know it's comical the way you drew it, but yeah.

D

Don't think we're really kidding? No, I I meant I meant it in in with all respect that it was more.

M

I don't expect you to to accept it, but I do expect what I was hoping to do here was have a.

M

Conversation about it and I think that's the real key um is: what can we do yeah and what would you.

M

Think would be worthwhile, but we do want to present a package that is approvable without.

M

That being the the thing that holds us up, so is this: um what you've got now this slightly raised.

A

Cornice over the bay window, sections and options, one and two or whatever yeah is that proof is that.

A

That works within your I know: option two is also a variance uh option. Two is a two-foot variant.

M

So it's option one that actually fits within your pizza yeah. That's our okay! Your baseline, you gotta.

I

Make it worth the ask right now yeah right, but but we have to at least pass the muster without.

M

It sure I think it is what we're going at yeah. So what you need to get is a design that you know.

A

That we approve of and then give it to the boa- and yes, yes before they add alternate we'd love.

M

To do that, but we'd also like to move this project along. So that's, I think, that's the desire of that.

I

I just want to finish up okay, the back, I think, that's brilliant. I think that's really brilliant.

I

And I think that'll go a long way. That's a wound in this community, uh the reference to to the north.

I

End and I I would at first glance it it kind of, is off-putting because it's so dark and I thought.

I

It was a black uh glazed wall that was very off-putting and then I figured it out. You know.

I

I think that's genius and I would probably make it a little more sepia, so it doesn't look as dark, but.

M

It is interesting because we have it in the model and you can walk in and when you're inside.

M

It it's a it's a vision because you're getting all this reflected light.

M

uh At night, it'll it'll light up differently because the bigger holes will show so again. This.

M

Is one of those things that we would come back in the end? Make sure that we're all on the same page.

M

But conceptually this is the the direction we'd like to go. Actually, you have two levels of parking.

A

On the back, we have two levels of parking, but by the way we were talking about the screen, but yes.

J

As a reference back to the town.

J

What is the material of the screen? It's a metal perforated screen. Okay, I, um with regard to the.

J

Front of building two I like how you have the cornices overlapping each other, where they meet.

J

I find that really interesting option. Two yeah option two or one is the same. It's the same idea.

J

It would help me when we start to see this in the model.

J

What it looks like when you're across the street, because right now, I'm having a hard time imagining.

J

How much of the roof line I'm going to be looking at and how much of whatever you're thinking about.

J

Putting up on the top is actually going to be visible and impactful, and I'm wondering if we're.

J

Worrying about something you put up there, that's going to be like a pimple on a.

J

Flea, it turns out to be pimples on it right. What is it really going to do so.

J

There are some roof elements that already exist in portsmouth that are not the athenian and the.

J

One I go back to is the fire breaks, the brick fire breaks. If you look down market street and they're.

J

They're simple they're, vertical they're straight up and down. They may not need variance because.

J

They go back this way. Not many people notice them now. They may not work here, because people may not.

J

Understand what they're referencing, but you were asking about a unique element that you could use.

J

On a roof that currently exists in portsmouth, and that's the one thing that I can think of.

M

I tried to convince these guys to put the boiler in the basement, so I had a real reason.

M

To put a fire shouldn't be um otherwise. I I like, where you're going with this.

J

Thank you actually, there's a building on the bottom of market street that has the.

A

I'm not sure what you call it, but the fire breaks go up the steps.

A

Dutch heritage coming out- oh it's certainly yeah reagan, um yeah I'll.

B

Just say to for being picky here um I prefer option two because option. One.

B

Looks like it's a some crown molding that you just kind of attached to the surface, whereas option two.

B

It's it makes sense it's sort of stacked on top, and if we, if we were we're smart, we we would do it.

M

And the the version four, where it's a little bit more expo, you know expressed it's actually higher.

B

Yeah we were we're just trying to just stay within them. Sure sure I get it I'm just as walker told me.

M

Just now I didn't we didn't do it right on option two, because we still are asking for a variance.

M

But that might be all your the town is willing to give us, so we don't want to show something.

M

That we can't have that's yeah, that's fine! I just was saying my preference and why I'm not done yet.

B

B

Again think um this building is really well designed um in a very nice building.

B

And I wanted to before I just mentioned how I appreciate the.

B

Study in brick and all the different colors and variations you're using and sort of.

B

Edging it closer or farther away from metal. um I think that's a really nicely thought out detail.

B

And I also just want to throw a lot of support behind this sort of artistic screen in the back.

B

I think that's wonderful, we've seen a lot of different variations of trying to screen parking.

B

Before and usually it's sort of like, let's make a flowery, um you know trellisy type, you know metal.

B

Screen, but I think this takes it and the next step, where it's actually a piece of art and so.

B

I I appreciate that I think that's going to be really nice and and as as I said, if we can work.

M

With your historical group or somebody who's got some, we think it should be a picture historically.

M

um That's just our approach, but because I think that helps tie it down it's on the train tracks.

M

It will always have this kind of a walkability and view, so it's a really important element. I think.

K

I would like to add to that and say that there are a lot of great historic sites that would.

K

Be perfect on that wall, but I think you should really concentrate on north end.

M

Yeah I mean this right here where the the upper one, exactly that's beautiful. It's.

K

That right there yeah- I mean it's, it's great. You couldn't get even more realistic. We that paulie.

M

Was blending the water prep, but that is the size yeah I mean we don't need any more market square.

K

Pictures or whatever you know, really concentrate on the history from the north end, because there's.

K

A lot of it and it would be really appropriate there, it's a great picture anyway, yeah, it's great.

E

um No I'm very impressed and like the way it has changed the way it's going and I'm very happy.

E

Nothing bad, okay. um One thing I would like to say is: um I would I I think this is a.

A

Great concept- and I love this- this photograph. Obviously I've said that, but um I think that.

A

I would like to see some kind of representation or uh a a place where this has already been used.

A

Uh-Huh yep, we can bring you some presents idea what this is. How how can you get this much detail.

A

With perforation and what's it going to look like tonight, it's going to be some kind of weird.

A

Salisbury beach sort of thing here: what are we doing? You know.

M

So we we could actually pull. I mean, do you want to pull off the website right, we'll put the press.

M

And we'll put a precedent sheet in and give you some idea of how they look they're fantastic.

M

I agree with you when I first saw it I was like, huh but then you see the picture of marilyn.

M

Monroe you're, like wow, that looks basic or the beatles people have done them now and they're.

M

Really, starting to you know, make a difference on screens, and the good thing is: if you don't.

M

Like it after five years, you can change it really. um So I I'm just going to go with the flow here.

F

Well, you have to come back yeah, that's right! We'd have more fun, um so I kind of like number.

A

Two also option two um that particular cornice and hope that you can come up with a design.

A

uh That you know we find acceptable to really emphasize this and break up the.

A

Roof line, which is the most important thing here, I think everybody's discussed everything.

A

That needs to be discussed, and can we go on to the flat iron building.

A

M

Yeah same old stuff, billy, three, uh obviously uh the the the sister ship of the of the masculine.

M

Building on the other side, we have done a few things here, which are different from the last time.

M

We saw this, we split the floor level, the ground floor level again because of the incredible slope.

M

So the the entry into the upper box of buildings is higher and this lower end we've been able to.

M

Follow the sidewalk down and create a entry level into that one which gave us some opportunities to.

M

Create another uh kind of the the uh reverse of what we're doing up in the building two.

M

Is now we have some stairs made of brick that come down from the face onto the this edge of the plaza.

M

So they're they're starting to talk to each other, so one is the concave, and this one is the reverse.

M

And then that allows these doors potentially of a retail space to be able to open out and flow right.

M

Out onto the new park and and the sidewalk, that's the biggest change on this one. But again from the.

M

Brick, it goes metal to the dark, uh brick and metal, and then the brick gets lighter as it goes around.

M

This is again how it transitions from building two into the more narrow building. You know the edge of.

M

The the the curved portion- uh this is more the entry piece to the residences.

M

Also, where the cars go into the second floor, garage.

M

Little night shot and again on this, we're also trying again to pay a little bit of respect to the.

M

Train tracks, the good thing is they're not used that much and they do allow this. This flow along.

M

That back edge, which we think could be pretty nice, it does have very regular pieces, as you can.

M

See when you get down onto the train tracks and you look back at the lower right, it feels fairly.

M

Regular, but that kind of has to be to make it not have so much going on, but only allow these things.

M

Like the the end, the round piece to really stick out and be the the part that's special.

M

This is a this is the evolution of where that park and the turnaround are supposed to be.

M

So if we can have the building be part of that and that flow allows you to make your way across the.

M

The new part of uh north yeah, but well I'm asking him, is it actually going to happen? Is the city.

A

Going to construct they're still planning on doing it yeah. um You know we have to have big plans.

M

When we get done, but even if it if it doesn't.

M

It still is a is a nice gesture out towards that part of the city. We think.

M

um Fairly simple this you can see on that first floor, that division is where we're going to drop, uh to have a lower lower retail space.

M

And then and then a roof deck and then the apartment.

A

There's a wall in the conversation so who would like to jump in well I'll jump in because I I've.

K

Liked this building since the beginning, so I'll just say it just I like it. Thank you.

I

uh Yeah, I agree it's it's. uh It's always been a very intriguing element and you know you wouldn't.

I

Hurt my feelings: if you wanted to do something on top of that as well, I mean, if you look at.

I

If you look at the elevation.

I

Anyway, even if even if it's just a flagpole at that some kind of spire, on top of that, it's very.

I

Flat shape, isn't very nice, I think the retail space being as tall as it is. I think any kind.

I

Of brick or mortar retail, that's going to have to compete with amazon. Is it's going to have to be a.

I

An experience people are going to want to go there and spend money um yeah I. If, if you look at.

I

Building three elevations uh and you look dead on at that- that uh the end.

I

uh If you had something at the top there again, I know it's a variance, but it would have my support.

I

Well, we do have a a patio up there that we're anticipating, so maybe that could be big enough.

M

To see in the distance, because you are going to see this building from quite a distance.

M

A trellis or something maybe a trellis structure, that's a dome and it could be set back to 10 feet.

M

And then we might be able to get away with it without having a variance. You could definitely.

A

Get away with a flagpole, yes, nobody can object to a flagpole. I don't think you, no I'm serious.

M

I agree, I believe, with an american flag on it. It's untouchable. You know that you ready for a.

M

Flagpole, thank you you're thinking like about kind of yeah. The way this thing is pointing towards.

M

Yeah, it could be a like a what we have at the like. A yacht club flag. Pole that'd be interesting.

D

It's getting so deep over here, guys.

J

About this, I I wouldn't kill the lily. I would leave it just the way it is.

J

More is not always better, not even a flagpole.

D

Of that, you guys have really watched the details and the development of the things right down to.

D

The small parts of the materials- and it shows all the way across I you understand how to layer a a.

D

Cornice line uh it there's just so much of this that the town is lucky that you showed up uh this.

D

Happens to be the third guess at what to do on that property that I've.

D

Sat through um and and this is stunning honestly stunning.

D

I don't see what it does, how it belongs in my town. I don't recognize the windows.

D

I I hope I I I don't know. I hope I can find some peace in this yeah. Okay,.

D

uh It's lovely, I want you to find peace in it, yeah we're trying every time we come here, but but but.

M

I do hear what you're saying it's: not um it's, not the older part of your town, uh but it's definitely.

M

More leaning towards your newer part of town- and I think what you mentioned earlier, is that it's this.

M

It's this this this transitional piece and to be able to be you know true to ourselves. It.

M

Has to have that flexibility, I think, ultimately, in a couple of years after this is finished, and.

M

Everybody starts enjoying all the pieces of it. It'll definitely be part of your town and.

M

You'll, hopefully come to love it. I I hope you're right. Everyone has offered us something like that.

D

We're using words not as eloquently but using words like that has sort of stumbled on delivery.

E

Building three has always won my heart and I'm.

E

Happy that you've brought one and two together with it, but three's always been spectacular.

A

Yeah I'm going to agree. I I think three is fine. I have no problems with.

A

Any portion of it, you know what I'm wondering is what what are these windows going to look like.

A

When everybody has got shades and blinds and all this kind of stuff on the inside, unless that's.

A

Included with the building- and they would have to be- wouldn't that be a nice thing to actually.

M

They'd have to be they'd have to put the same blind up, even if it was part of the ti.

M

Yeah, so that would be the intent you'd want to have a uniform feel for okay. Well, I hate to rush.

A

This along, but I'm going to ask if anybody in the public would like to speak about this.

F

Please thank you, elizabeth bradder property owner 159, mcdonough street. um You will be shocked that.

L

I, after having looked at this building for a long time, I don't like the mass which you're.

L

Not shocked about, but I do like the building. It is a railroad building on the corner there. If.

L

You ever go to europe. The town I lived in had a railroad bonhoef that looked exactly like.

L

The front of that building, so I think, being next to the railroad tracks. It is a boston.

L

Style or new york style, railroad building. I don't even know what they're called in english anymore.

L

But I think it would be interesting to see to really get a sense of this is that the north.

L

End has all of these very funky buildings on them. We have the very traditional rains, ave and then.

L

We have the ac hotel, which I won't talk about, and then we have 145, which has the windows.

L

And all of that, it would be interesting to see, if would be possible to take a whole bunch of.

L

Pictures and then put this building in to see what that whole. What I call the north end island would.

L

Look like when it's done, because I think this building has the brick which will tie it into.

L

The 1 in 31 rains very nicely. It has a similar brick feel to it. I like the windows, the fact that.

L

You went away from the big windows because I worry about birds and windows. Forget about the decor, the.

L

Bigger the window, the more they're attracted to it and the last thing you want in your park.

L

Is a lot of dead birds, so I think all in all I like it. I don't think I want to see a flagpole.

L

On the top, but it would be nice to put a flagpole on the bottom in front of it. That might be you.

L

Know if you put like a 50-foot flagpole there, it would really take away from a feel of the mass.

L

There, but somebody would have to replace it every month, because the wind is so bad down.

L

There, but all in all I do like this- I don't it's so big, but I'm hoping that the fact that you see.

L

It's a five-story building, but with the bottom being so big with the columns and stuff it really.

L

Makes it feel a little less and the fact that you have a top on it? They all have fancy names.

L

I don't care the top makes it come down. Excuse me, it squishes it and gives you a sense that.

L

It's really a four story, but when it's when it's really a five story, so I think the north end is no.

L

Longer the north end of single family homes, it is now very large buildings with the cd5 zoning and.

L

Five stories- and we just have to kind of live with that, but to at least have something that really is.

L

Spectacular in the middle of it would be kind of a nice thing. Thank you. Thank you.

A

I just wanted to mention nick was telling me that this is in the model, so you can look at.

A

This three-dimensionally there's a link for this meeting. If I could use the model.

L

I need it, I need a grand tour on how to use the market.

M

We're still working with your team to get the link up, though we have some color issues with.

C

It understood yeah it's great and we have the other model we could throw up. If you guys wanted.

M

It, but um to fly around somebody that wants to look at the massing in the view, corridors. It's.

C

It's right there online. You can pull it up. Excellent! Okay, that was it right in the public.

A

Okay, well, I think we're going to need to vote for a continuation so moved. Are we.

M

Are we doing a final package? That's where we're anticipating, I think, do you mean a.

C

Public hearing or public financial work session are we done with work sessions. I assume right.

M

Or that's what I'm asking um I'm gonna need some uh other opinions on that. I I think that you are.

A

Myself personally, but um we can always vote to continue just in case. You want to come.

B

Back for another work session, but you can apply for a public hearing by friday, yeah.

B

By friday, it's your confidence level that we're not willing to push or just yeah, I mean.

M

We've only gone through half of the package, I mean the rest of the documentation that you have.

A

A few other projects, no I'm just saying: we've, we've literally we've gotten ready we're ready.

M

We feel we're ready, look file for the public hearing by friday and if you think you can't do.

C

That, then, we need to continue the work session, but you can always go into a work session at.

C

The beginning of the public hearing, if there's some, you know like the options for the cornice.

C

You come up with a third idea or a fourth as an ad alternate. You might want to spend five minutes.

C

Talking about that before you go into the hearing, it doesn't seem like. There were many other issues.

C

Maybe you have a assigned package: yeah we'll have them show how they get loaded and then, whatever.

C

Yeah, I don't think you need to do anything with the window shades. It's clear what you're going to.

C

Do when you do it material landscape, we'll need all that for the public hearing nick. What about.

I

The landscape hardscape, I mean, I think, that's going to be picked up by the planning board attack.

C

If you have some major heartburn with the the the bull or the elevated platform, well,.

I

It just seemed very um it just. It seemed like it wasn't: yeah generic, you know it's. You know, yeah a.

I

Placeholder yeah, I mean we have a fairly developed landscape plan um and we have two more planning.

M

Board meetings with tac to go through right, um they're, they're, just gonna, be massaging what.

M

We've already modeled we're going to be picking up every place. Every shrubbery everything will be.

I

You promise yeah everything will be named and you know all that sauce yeah and it's.

A

Really not we're not capable of that sort of stuff yeah and we're good. Okay. Can you file by friday,.

F

Are you ready yeah? I think we, you know, we get the additional landscape and we can.

F

Integrate by that, that's been done since we submitted this package, but I think.

M

Excellent. Thank you very much for your input. This has been a fun process. Thank you.

A

Well, more sessions are going to be a little more light-hearted.

F

Yeah keep going okay, keep going john work session requested by one market square llc owner for.

A

Property located at one congress street and zero high street, where permission is requested to allow.

A

Renovations to an existing structure repair and upgrade building facades along congress and high.

A

Streets and new construction to an existing structure replace rear, shed editions with a.

A

New four to five story edition ask for plans on file in the planning department, said property.

A

Is shown on assessor map 117 as lot 14 and 15, and it lies within the character district, 4.

A

Character, district 5, downtown overlay and historic district do here present this good evening.

N

Mr chairman, members of the store commission and planning department, tracy kozak arc of architects.

N

Here, with terence parker of terra, firma, landscape architecture and marie bode from mcnabb properties,.

N

Here, on behalf of the applicant one market square, llc,.

N

All right, thanks for having us back, we took a little break to redesign a bunch of stuff.

N

uh It's on the front, there's a long list I'll go through the list real quickly, just to start with.

N

And then we can go through the drawings one by one. I also um brought some fresh new renderings, which.

N

Were uploaded today, um I can pass them around if you care to look at them they're the same.

N

Views as in the package they're just more better, more better rendered, and we also have.

N

A short animation video showing this in context, moving around the site a little bit if you.

N

Yep um all right, let's see, um I think we were here two months ago.

N

Last and we've taken a careful review of some of the comments we heard last time.

N

And um pushed and pulled and shaped and tweaked the facades a little bit. I will point out.

N

A couple things the lots were merged, so it is now all one parcel.

N

There is a change of youth. We previously came before you talking about office use on.

N

The upper floors, and now the direction is a boutique hotel with a restaurant.

N

On the ground floor so that does have an impact on the street level facade on high street.

N

So what changes we made include, we push the street facades back from the high street and haven court.

N

Property lines by about 18 inches, we this helped allow us to add some relief.

N

To the facade, with masonry, cornices and awnings, to give some texture and depth to that.

N

We reduced the roof, soffit overhangs. We were told last time they're a little heavy.

N

We changed the dormers, so there aren't really dormers up there. So much we'll tell you exactly.

N

What we did when we get to those drawings, we simplified the window sizes on the upper floors.

N

We lowered and reshaped the corner of the roof to the right of 18 high street. We call.

N

That's the pink building with the arched roof cornice the existing one on high street. We call.

N

It the opera house, because they're at one point for a brief moment in time there was a sanborn.

N

Map that said, it was an opera house that will be the main entrance to the development. So we on the.

N

Addition we lowered and sloped that roof to give better homage to that that beautiful arch, cornice.

N

On on the opera house, and we also at the same time, we moved the elevator and stair.

N

Towers back to the far back of the property, so you don't see those over runs and those those.

N

Roofs sticking up from the street, you just see the pure roof lines of the existing building. We.

N

Redesigned and simplified the marquee awning that we're adding to that opera house building. I got.

N

Rid of the bra the steel brackets, the we added a traditional canvas awnings to the congress.

N

Street storefronts, which, as we were last time, restoring those to the original conditions for.

N

Historic photos- and these are typical canvas awnings- that you see up and down conga street.

N

We reduced the mass size and detail of the dormer that we're proposing, on top of three congress.

N

Street we provided more detail development and fine-tuning of the fenestration of the edition.

N

The as I mentioned the storefronts along high street, where there will now be a hotel.

N

Is more of an arcade and we'll show you some of the old photos we had? I think at the first.

N

Work session, where that site in back of these existing buildings.

N

The parking lot that's there today now that was the site of a hotel for a hundred years.

N

It was first, the national hotel and then the dolphin hotel. There was another hotel where.

N

The hanover parking garage edition is so that historically was the hotel district of portsmouth.

N

People don't think of it, maybe so much uh today, but historically that's that was the nature of.

N

This site, um let's see we lowered uh the the glass corner on the glass element on the corner of high.

N

Street and haven court or lad, which we call the prism, because it has that angular shape.

N

We lowered it, we lowered the height and we squished it back into the building of it again. So.

N

That it is coplanar with the roofs and the facades of that building, so it doesn't stick out so much.

N

Simplified it a great deal and we let's see some more refinement on that which you'll you'll see.

N

In the drawings we started to look at the what we call the back of the building in that alley. The.

N

West alley facing newberries that we're creating in that corner, where it intersects with haven.

N

Court and how that relates to the redevelopment of haven court as a pedestrian way connecting market.

N

Street from commercial alley, lad street haven court all the way to fleet street, as we mentioned.

N

Last time that is really the primary goal of this project is to connect public spaces.

N

And we have some exterior materials to discuss all right, so we got through that. It's very busy.

A

That's so well, I just I just want to say that um we heard a lot of great comments last time and we.

N

Took them to heart, and hopefully you'll like what we've done. So this is the uh history. This is the.

N

Existing conditions on the left and to the right are the historic. The lower right bluish photo is.

N

The dolphin hotel right before well the building front of it had just burned down. I guess that's.

N

The pierce walk and that's the dolphin hotel, which is still standing. It did burn down in the late 60s.

N

But you can see it had an arcade on the bottom. That's the site plan. um In this view, north is.

N

At 10 o'clock and um lad, street and haven court are to the left.

N

And the demolition we have the demolition drawings in here, so the shed editions and smaller.

N

Scale, wood editions on the back, the l's and whatnot are proposed to be removed.

N

We are also proposing to remove the rear section of just the roof on 18 high street. The opera house.

N

Right now it slopes down very steeply and it's not a usable space. We want to connect.

N

The existing buildings on congress street to the edition, so we need to lift that up a bit.

N

And there's the new roof plan, there will be.

N

Solar panels up here and some mechanical equipment we're not showing those yet, but what this does.

N

Have is the elevator overrun and stair towards the back, which is right there yep all right.

N

First floor plan, the existing buildings are to the right three and one congress street and.

N

The addition is to the left and you can see how we've pulled back, that interior for the.

N

Interior first floor off of high street, so that that is a drop off for hotel guests. The cars can.

N

Drop off there there would be valet service, which would then take the cars around the corner to a.

N

Car elevator off of haven court, where they would be parked down below, which is here down below and.

N

So this is the shadow drawing and, as we talked about in the beginning, that our our goal with.

N

This design is to bring people through the alleyways to find their help them find their way.

N

To cool spaces in the city and we're doing that by using light sunlight daylight to anchor this.

N

Building to its place in the city and its place in time, this design can exist nowhere else, but here.

N

And we've taken cues from the existing building and how it's designed.

N

Particularly as you may recall, the the dormers, the kind of a playful gesture with the terracotta.

N

Medallions on the corner of one uh conga street: they they have the open flower and the closed.

N

Flower, depending on how it's facing the sun, we're removing the fire escapes along high street, which.

N

Currently creates some amazing shadows that change during the time of day.

N

And one may not really think about it when you're walking around town, but you can tell what time of.

N

Day, it is by the shadows on these buildings or the shadows on the street and hopefully.

N

When the sun hits these different elements in the building, whether they're, medallions or or shadow.

N

Elements a person walking through might be able to go. Oh wait. North! Is that way? That's where the.

N

North end was, and I want to go to prescott park and it's just a subliminal way to help orient.

N

Yourself in a city of mazes, where they hand out paper, maps that aren't to scale and people.

N

Are always getting lost, this will help them find their way. So that's why we're showing the shadows.

N

Okay and demolition elevations, as we've discussed, restoring the facades based on historic photos.

N

On congress street, before you get ripping through demolition, I'm hoping that you do remember that we.

A

Want to have photographs of interior exterior wall details on these existing buildings, although they.

A

I know they've been, you know, changed in the 70s and 80s and 90s in any history that you can come.

A

Up with for those building, and then you'll have to put in some sort of binder or whatever you'll.

A

Give it to us and absolutely one will go to the athlete, and maybe one goes to the library we'll be.

N

Very happy to do that pretty standard stuff now, in addition, we've done a 3d laser cloud scan of the.

N

Existing building, so we have inside and outside in three dimensions, the entire, even the stuff, we're.

N

Tearing down, we modeled it, so it's their paper is good too we'll print it. On paper, too. Okay,.

A

Can you go over that? You know, I mean you're just jumping around so much I'm having trouble the the.

A

The drive-through aspect of the hotel- I would be happy to if you could nick please go to the.

N

Next page, there we go, that is the high street elevation. So, as you recall last time we had the.

N

um The the lifting store front windows yeah the fold, so they fold up instead of sideways.

N

Like a typical nanowall, um those are gone from high street. We still have, I think, three on the.

N

Haven court but they're gone from high street and instead we have the granite piers um with some.

N

Metal screening here and there and then the actual uh store the glass wall of the building. That.

N

Leads the lobby is pushed back, so cars can drive underneath that second floor right at that section.

N

And that is haven court again the shape the triangular facets of that glass corner. Are there.

N

To allude to the triangular shape of the steeple, very simply- and this is the very back alley- it's.

N

About 11 feet off of the back of newberry's, so it's very simple and plain, but um there.

N

It is it's utilitarian and the view from above and the view from popovers um yeah, okay and.

N

um Well, no we'll talk about it on the drop side, the drawings that hand out and.

N

Yep, that's high straight there's. The drive under the new renderings are a bit clearer. I think.

N

You'll see that a little better, these are a little simpler and the view down haven court and we do.

N

Have quite a bit of it's not shown in this one, but it's in the updated rendering quite a bit of.

N

Site improvements, landscaping and hardscaping and lighting improvements, the goal being to make this.

N

Super inviting to pedestrians and to encourage people to explore. What's down here and I will say.

N

That changing this to a hotel, although a lot of residents don't find use in the.

N

Hotel room what it does offer the residents and visitors and everybody who's in the city.

N

It offers life and this haven court has been kind of a dark scary place for a long time, and it's.

N

Been a problem, the police department has expressed concerns over over the safety of the space.

N

And so the the number one way to make it safe is to have people there and by having a residential.

N

Use even a short-term residential use with a big restaurant on the ground floor, there's going to be.

N

People there all day, not just eight to five, so I think that's going to help a lot and we also have.

N

Lots of lighting it's going to be light and bright and and fun and uh terence, if you have.

N

Questions about that, terence, is here to ask. I mean answer any questions. I know last time he.

N

Started to get into it and uh we weren't quite there, so um uh you know we were still looking at.

A

The massing and such, but I think this is a good time for you to discuss what plans that you have.

I

Do you have any site.

G

So, as tracy said, I'm trying to pick up on trying to animate the space, because you know that this.

G

This is a critical critical space in the the paths from um the mcintyre building.

G

Through commercial alley, through lad street over down by gillies and fleet and potentially over to.

G

Vaughn mall and the worth lot, and that's that's the hope that this is the connector between.

G

The great east west connector, so my job is to pick up on the themes that tracy's established.

G

um In in the architecture, the metal, the glass, the the illumination and animate the space.

G

And I pick up on the theme of time and I think last time I discussed the history of labyrinths.

G

And in this particular case, um using the labyrinth to accentuate time in the walking from one point.

G

To another point from for, for instance, from the parking garage down to fleet street.

N

And that's the newer rendering a couple pages ahead. Might.

N

Yeah one of these things, no, you skip way ahead. It's okay! Where are we talking about this? One.

N

Do you is that the newer one it's whatever you just handed out is not in this package.

G

It's on the printed page, it's page page, two and three on the printed page.

A

Are you looking into the building through that corner.

A

Pyramid, yes, that's occupied space, it's restaurant! On the ground floor. um We haven't programmed the.

N

Upper floors yet, but it's occupied space, whereas previously it was more of an atrium.

A

So that has the same rounded lighting that you're going to have hanging over this alleyway.

A

That's what it appears to be yeah correct. I think it's pretty cool.

G

That's the chief form of illumination for haven court.

G

From from high street down to the top of where newberry slopes to gillies, so that catenary light.

G

Will stretch across the top and there'll be some metal arches that go from the newbury building to.

G

The the side of the parking garage and they'll also be stone. Sculpted, stone, sitting benches.

G

In the corner by where you can see new berries here on page two and then again at the top.

G

Of giles there'll be a resting place there because there'll be a long series of steps.

G

So the steps up from gillies well, I think I think it's about 14 feet of grade, so we're going to like.

G

Design the steps, so it you have this definite rhythm in your foot, foot travel so you'll, always.

G

Be stepping up in a in a group of steps with the same foot, so it'll have a really nice cadence.

G

And on the gilly side, there'll also be a sculpted railing. That'll pick up on.

G

Some of the metal that tracy's having on this building so the railing will be serpentine and.

G

The paving pattern will be serpentine, so you'll have a real sense of there's a lot of detail.

G

From fleet street over to the parking garage that will animate, you know kids and all users, all alike,.

G

And so the catenary lights will illuminate the space, as will the the arch lights that are evident.

G

On the third sheet, if I could just, I just want to clarify that the actual site improvements are not.

N

Part of this htc application they're here for reference. This will be a.

N

Separate application that will be developed in collaboration with the city for this public way.

A

Or because you've made some elaborate plans here, uh so terence can elaborate.

N

The the property lines of this parcel end at newbury's, um but there is an easement, a public.

N

Well, there's an access easement for newberries through haven court um beyond.

N

Newbury's, I believe it's owned by the city. So that's why it's going to be a joint effort.

N

But we do want to show in these renderings what our hope is as we go forward in the just.

D

The dumpsters, oh, no, so the dumpsters go away. uh They will be um subterranean um dumpsters.

N

With shoot trash shoots similar to what is happening at brick market, there will be three.

N

Stainless steel cylinders in that back alley, yep right there and then right by the newberry's door.

N

Goes underground and it is collected and removed by the property owners of this.

N

Building it comes out the car elevator into trucks and goes away so you'll never see it.

A

So we have restoration of a couple historical buildings, three actually, and then we have this.

A

Modern edition on the back still got my favorite windows in it. I see, but.

A

So I'm wondering if it's time to everybody chime in on this and try to ask some questions.

K

Are those windows operable they are, they are and they are being fabricated by.

N

Pella pella makes them currently well. They have two lines of windows. The commercial line makes.

N

Them not operable they have a residential line that has them operable so they're.

N

Combining forces to make a commercial one, that's operable in that same shape, so it's enough.

N

They're casements and they the cool thing, is they open at the corner but there's no corner posts so.

N

When they open 90 degrees, it'll, just look like a regular.

N

French casement, but when they're closed they come to a point.

D

Technical problem, what happens to the roof of them? Yeah? We are building a roof and a floor. Basically.

N

It's like a bay window that sticks out of a building, so we'll have a hat and.

N

A base, so when the windows open up the roof will still be the roof scissors. Yes,.

F

J

On the old buildings on congress street.

J

um I don't know not the corner building, but the one you're putting the.

J

Dormer in you're, showing coins on the corner and the rendering are those there um they're.

N

Not there now, but they used to be. If you look at the historic photo on page 302, I have it here.

N

On the on the upper right for a period of time, it had heavy coining.

N

On the corners, also some pretty intense window heads and sills and some different windows.

J

I think I think my reaction to that. The last time was that it was a lot.

J

For what appears to be now a simple building- um and I'm just not quite.

J

Convinced and the the style of window that you're showing here.

J

With the coins, it looks like it's a mishmash of modern windows and and very victorian um ornate.

J

Coining, so I'm not sure what this building? What is this building? It's? It's got some very um elaborate.

J

Things going on, and it's very small and I'm worried about it. The original building was.

N

Built in 186 in the 1860s, and um it had as as we mentioned last time at that original time, it had.

N

A very simple kind of wooden stick storefront and then in the 1890s. um The building on the.

N

Corner was rebuilt into the bank with a very fancy cast iron, storefront and granite, and then.

N

Those guys felt a little outdone, so they came back and put it in a nice fancy in the 1890s around the.

N

Turn of the century they put in their fancy, cast iron, storefront, half of which exists today. The.

N

Other half was removed, there's been a series of changes, so I mean you can kind of take and pick.

N

What you want to keep or restore or not, we have proposed to restore the second floor.

N

Windows to as they were mid 20th century, which was the stained glass and the french casements.

N

Right now they are a true kind of modern conier, very blank window. We also want to restore.

N

The heads and sills um that is different than what it was originally there on the second floor.

N

It was three um two of twos across the front so, um but so we're kind of taking that mid.

N

That early, not the very first day it was built, but maybe 30 30 years later, approach.

A

Anyone else's don't see some hands come up here.

D

David, uh I I kind of I think it's exciting to think that you're going to have cars driving into.

D

This little reception area, it may be that that's a very, very good choice on the side street, which.

D

Is so narrow, I I wonder how that works with pedestrians, but that's down the road. um I I.

D

Find the the angled windows, the glazed corner and the roof edge skylights I to me, are all awkward.

D

um And- and I don't I just don't- find any comfort in them. I do uh appreciate the changes that you.

D

Want to make to the front of the small building on on congress street. I do also appreciate the.

D

The eccentricities that are appearing around we'll call the opera house as you're, trying to step back.

D

Using that, as a lobby I mean the tension of its reuse, is clear and- and I can understand how that.

D

Is not going to follow what anybody might think of as the norms of historic architecture in our town.

D

But the windows, the glaze corner and the roof edge are just they're hard for me to take they're just.

D

Hard for me to take the changes to the roof are quite a big change from before we had the dormers.

N

um These this is almost a literal um where there is it's the same roof. That's on the back of three.

N

Congress and we're just replicating that down the road, um it's nothing new! It's already there.

N

And no, I think if you go well yeah it's that there you go that, and so when that that building is that.

N

Sky window wall is original to the building. The very first picture show that there and it was um a.

N

Print photography studio so they had a light room and a dark room and and and that's what our design.

N

Is all about about light and dark and bringing light in and, and that was an important element.

N

In the 1890s- and that was when we had people were starting to experiment with the cast iron and.

N

Building these glass palaces the crystal palaces and the greenhouses, and they were starting to do.

N

Stuff like this on roofs, and it was experimental and eventually they they abandoned the cast iron.

N

And went to steel and things got different, but it was a moment in time. That is, is a really.

N

Unique thing on this building that exists nowhere else, and so um we're capitalizing on that. I think.

N

It's a special special part of the old building that that should be carried through to the new.

A

Highlights these on the new building yep they're slanted they're like three skylights mold together.

A

So to speak, they're they're, velox they're regular commercials. um What is it between them? What what.

A

Is this is like a little mini firewall or something, and what is this? It's kind of like a.

N

A buttress that is um takes its cue from the flanking copper edges of the sky window on the.

N

Old building, that is, if you look at the photos, it is covered in copper. It's green copper. It sticks.

N

Up like these fins on an old, 1950s chevy or something it's kind of strange, but.

N

They they seemed a little um too batman like uh to carry over to the new building. So we've.

N

Adjusted the proportions so that they blend in with the roof lines absolutely a little.

A

Better, they go up vertical the front. The lower part of it is vertical and then the.

N

Top of it is more in line with the mansard roof shape that it's attached to and you this is a.

N

2D elevation, so you won't get it, but if you look at the 3d drawings, h334 yeah, it shows it well.

D

Yes, nice demonstration of the corner and the video we're going to show you has a close-up so.

F

We have a really good close-up animation, video that does a fly-through of those.

N

Roof features, I would recommend.

J

Tracy, I think the I think the windows work really well. I am worried about those buttresses. Okay,.

N

So this is um a shadow study, basically and showing how the light moves through the site and why. Some.

N

Of these facade, some of the relief and texture we have on the facade is what it does. Okay,.

N

I'm not sure what that is, so those those are the bottoms of the windows you can see. It has a cap.

N

And a bottom, the awnings that are along the storefront.

N

That's haven, court.

N

And those are the sky windows.

N

And the original building on the corner.

A

So I didn't realize that they were curved in between the skyline yeah.

A

They are so now you're adding a whole another element. You've got a building that has a lot.

A

Of new stuff for portsmouth here, and why are you doing that? Why are they curved.

A

Or a matter of fact, why are they even there? Why are they there they're there to separate.

N

To be there, if you look at the building across the street, um the building across the street is.

N

Punctuated with these sharp vertical little onesie dormers and these deep recessed balconies- and I.

N

Think I think if you just did a straight wall or roof across the front, it would feel unbalanced.

N

But you have these three skylights molded, together, which we've never seen before right.

N

There three three: three: you have those, but now you've added almost a japanese element up there.

A

I'm just wondering what's going on: well, if you again, don't the 2d drawing doesn't show.

N

The shape of the um existing roof scape, but the existing fins that flank the window on.

N

The existing building, which we're referencing, have almost a curve to it and where it's actually, three.

N

Angles that scoop around and it's a little clunky. We thought it was simpler and cleaner just to do.

N

A very shallow curve, and and that's what it's alluding to the original building on the corner.

A

Doesn't have those it has a massage roof, but it's totally straight. No, it's not. um If you look at.

N

The 3d views yeah, um I didn't bring the close-up photo, but I think if you zoom in the renderings.

N

N

Yeah but um nick doesn't have that that pdf online.

C

The printout yeah I'd rather just keep with what we can so on the printout sheet. 3.51.

N

You can see a bit of that shape and the top left photo on 302.

N

If you have good eyes, you can see that it has a flare, it has it's not straight.

N

Straight the roof edge is to my knowledge, it looks pretty damn straightforward.

A

It looks strange, but the roof itself: oh yeah yeah. No, I'm not I'm talking about okay.

N

Everything you're saying is: this is referencing something else you know as if the building has to.

A

Reference everything around it and she's trying to cope with these things. The way that this cut.

D

See the original window that she's, looking at through the transition of the lower plane to.

D

The upper plane of the mansion, okay and that's why they had to build these two flanking units.

D

To get that cut in the corners line, okay to to do what they needed straight here yeah. So then.

A

What what is curved, I, I don't think when they're trying to simplify that by not going up so high.

D

So to make that work, they end up with a flat spot. They get rid of carrying that flat spot.

D

Down they did a sweep. It's it's an efficiency that she's looking for here. I think that.

D

It's it's there. It works, in other words yeah yeah, but um I just don't get it so. I've jumped in.

A

Who else wants to ask some questions about this? Martin yeah um there's a lot of.

I

Elements of this I like and I've always liked the the windows that uh sort of angle out.

I

These little bay windows- I think it's very unique. Just this whole building is very unique. It's.

I

The one thing that breaks my heart, though, is that damn drive through.

I

I I I think you ruined your building with it. I really do uh you've ruined the pedestrian.

I

Experience at that sidewalk level, you know it's it's just if you're not going there. It's a very.

I

You to me it's probably going to be very difficult to work with the vehicles.

I

There's going to be restrictions as to what kind of vehicles can go in there.

I

If you could live without that, I I would recommend you do, or maybe.

I

What you do is you go with the more the far right vehicle opening and you come out on a haven court.

I

So that you're circulating you're coming around this glass prism that you have on the corner.

I

To me, you open it up and you allow pedestrian access under the prism.

I

Into the building right now, it's it's an object, but it doesn't really have much more function.

I

Than as a symbol I mean is, are you going to put it? That's where the lounge is? It's.

N

Connected to the restaurant, I I know, but it just seems like an underutilized space.

I

It's such a special space unless you're going to put a table there and that's the table. You know.

I

It's just martin's. I would think that I I'm not worthy of that table, but um if that was open and.

I

You could walk under it and look up. Maybe that's the kind of special experience that I think that.

I

Would be worthy of of this object but yeah that that drive through really breaks my heart.

I

I I can't I don't mind what you're doing at the roof. I think this has sort of an art, no, not art, no.

I

Art nouveau kind of modern art nouveau quality to it, which I think is very creative and interesting.

I

But I just don't like what you're doing at the at the ground level with that drive through it.

I

Just ah it's awful and if you could live without it, you know I would try to do it. I just think that.

I

You know let vehicles be in haven, court, more so and and and.

I

Do not put you know, do don't put this big gap at your at your uh street level.

I

Okay, sorry anybody else here.

A

I don't want to say anything about the drive pickup drive through.

E

You know there's just a lot going on and a lot that I like about it, but I'm not sure how.

E

You're going to get cars in and out either you need to drive through or you take away.

E

What I really like, what you've done with the lad street haven street, pass.

E

More pedestrian, so I'm not sure what the answer is and splitting it. I think, like you said.

E

From uh in one end and out the other, I think takes away both of those areas. It's a tough.

E

I'm not sure what the answer is through yet um I don't really understand. What's going on, I.

K

I there's a lot going on there and- and I like um many of the elements I like, but it's the.

K

It's the total of it. It just seems like there's a lot happening on every side.

K

And I just don't know what to make of it. The you know the windows I by themselves like I could live.

K

With those, but then we've got the obelisk two of them now and we've got the drive through and then.

K

On the front, the details with the coins- and it's just there's just a lot happening and that might.

K

Be okay, but I just don't understand it. I just don't get it well. So I've already expressed my.

A

Either I'm not saying, though, that I'm against it, um I guess I'm I'm willing to to look at this as.

A

It's almost like, we've been transported to montreal or.

A

You know this is not boston new york here. This is something totally different and.

A

It's a hotel, so I'm going to have to disagree with martin on the car thing. uh You know, there's.

A

One who drives down to florida and back and stops at four on the you know, stops.

A

Four times on the weight, I understand what you have to have to get out of your car.

A

And to get your suitcases and stuff you've got to have something either that or you have to have.

A

Something that projects out to cover you up so to me, I I see that this.

A

Is working, it is a it's definitely a hotel. There's no storefronts involved with this.

A

So I guess I'm feeling that that's all right, uh it's just um it's just a combination of stuff.

A

Here that has gotten me confused also, and there again I had the same problem on daniel street and.

A

Actually, now that it's being constructed, I have more of a problem. I'm just looking at.

A

All the wood that's on it, I didn't quite realize that there was that much wood.

A

So I just want to be sure that this is right.

F

Margo um I I agree that there are a lot of elements and tracy. I think your challenge.

J

Is figuring out how to harmonize these elements either a little more.

J

Or make them more separate, which doesn't set, which sounds a little strange. But.

J

You have your old buildings, the opera house and the buildings on congress street and.

J

They have a lot of common elements, they have coins, they have a lot of decorative features.

J

They're, very victorian um and and then you have your building and it is also very complicated.

J

But it's complicated in a very different way, with a very different feel and somehow they're not.

J

Quite working with each other if they were to go if they were in separate.

J

Locations each one individually would work, but there's something that's just not quite.

J

Working with the two just yet um I I like the skylight concept. I think that the division.

J

Between them might be too heavy and there's maybe something wrong with the shape. But it's a little.

J

Hard to tell with these renderings I think your flyover helped, but I'm not sure it's there yet.

J

I see what martin is saying about the drive-through. I think the biggest problem.

J

With the drive-through is that it ends up feeling like a garage there's, oil stains and trash gets.

J

Ends up in the corner and unless the hotelier is very meticulous, about keeping it up to really top.

J

Standards, it can start to look dingy and that's a challenge. I don't know if there's some possibility.

J

Of reorganizing some of the interior to allow that to happen some other way or some other space.

J

And your your obelisk corner feature, I'm still waiting on that. I haven't fallen in love with it.

J

Not sure I totally hate it, I'm waiting to see if you.

J

Change it in the future or if it's going to stay exactly the way it is right now.

N

So a couple points, thank you for those comments.

N

The existing the uh dolphin hotel had its vehicular drop off at that same place and.

N

There are photos that show the cars lined up with a recessed arcade, so the recessed arcade.

N

Has historic precedent, and we just want to recreate that which used to be there for.

N

150 years the column spacing was a little tighter than what's there now, so we can look at something.

N

We still actually need it functionally to work. We have added it's hard to see in that rendering.

N

But the newer renderings uh show it better. There, uh we've added some kind of lacy metal screening.

N

Elements to soften that there's lighting inside so it will be a glowing inviting space and the.

N

Walls behind it are a lot of storefronts that will have light into the restaurant beyond.

N

And in the prism we have changed it quite a bit already and we can continue to develop that as.

N

Well, I have a question if if, if high street got the chestnut street treatment without the curbs.

G

Would that have a different impact on the way that the garage entrance was perceived in that that.

G

Whole street would become a kind of pedestrian zone with the curbs lined out in pavement and.

G

Then the the pattern flowing through into the the turnaround underneath the building with that that.

G

Would I think that would change the perception of the separation in the pedestrian interference.

G

So that's the that's. The view going forward in the long term is to change the whole pattern.

G

The whole removing all the curbs at high street, make it like a chestnut street.

C

And I I think that's something we're going to be looking at from the city side, with.

C

You guys, I think, if this thing is like chestnut street, then there's probably no need to go into.

C

The building because you'd be able to you'd remove parking off that street and you'd have.

C

A wider street and less of a need to go in the building to get off the street to get for someone.

C

To get out of their car so would probably open up other opportunities than puncturing the building.

C

For the the drive-through lane, if the parking was changed on high street, which I'm not suggesting.

C

Is going to happen, but that's got to be looked at because chestnut street's, not a parked street.

A

Yeah and you've had a lot of people on on that street. You know, on the other side,.

A

That actually d, stefan always got birthplace and the coffee shops in the corner, there's also a 5.

C

3 900 space garage right there, yeah right in front of you, maybe yeah yeah right in front of you.

A

And that's a lot of real estate for five parking spaces, so they may need to go.

I

I can just see check outs at 11.. Everyone goes to check out 11. yeah. I don't know how many.

I

Rooms are here, and I just functionally I don't know aesthetically. I think it's.

I

Awful I mean the ac hotel has a hundred rooms in there. They have a valet space on the street yeah.

C

So we're trying to make more headlines now. I'm sorry just grab, as john says just grabbing him.

A

So I think um that we've all had our expressions and I think, we're more active in the public to.

A

Make any comments that they like and then we need to move on.

L

Maybe you need a lapel mic.

L

You know it's good timing for me to have them all. On the same night good evening, elizabeth brad.

L

Or property owner 159 mcdonald street tourists often come and can be seen sitting on the benches.

L

Looking up at the tops of the many old buildings in downtown enjoying the classic architecture.

L

Craftsmanship and attention to details of the days of old did you notice my new hairstyle.

L

Did it strike you as out of place for a woman, my age to be wearing my hair in pigtails and braids.

L

Much less to a board meeting, perhaps it would be okay if I was going to a costume party.

L

To be pippi longstocking, that is what the new section of this project looks like.

L

Against the proposed restoration of the merchant bank and the national hotel, it's not that the new.

L

Section isn't interesting: it's completely out of place in the middle of downtown portsmouth.

L

In one of the core parts of the historic district, much less against the backdrop of.

L

The north church and the restored front and the classic looked on the left side of high street.

L

93 pleasant street included the restoration of the elks club, the addition that was added to the.

L

Back of that building looks like it belongs to the original building being destroyed.

L

This could be considered for this building. It should also come down in height, which.

L

Is required on the corner of high and cape haven court to two to three stories: a maximum of 40 feet.

L

The proposed glass art on the corner of haven and high street seems more like.

L

It is being proposed to be a lighted beacon to the restaurant at this location or now a hotel.

L

This should be not permit. This should not be permitted in the horse. Historic district of.

L

Downtown, that's the difference between the north end, island and being in the middle of downtown.

L

It is it it could possibly find a home in a larger park as a piece of art or an animated sign or a.

L

Lighted sign the back door of the hanover garage does not need any wayfaring at all.

L

Most people come out and they can see market street as well as congress street and once they.

L

Get out there, there are signs and there's even a tourist information center. Please ask them to.

L

Create a more authentic building to the core of the for the core of the historic district, lower.

L

The heights, which were in place for a reason to find and to find a home for the interesting glass.

L

I do want to say that I find it very disconcerting that this was not available to the public.

L

On time, I also want to say that originally that was proposed that that whole area be a no car.

L

Section and now they're proposing to have a drive-through for their cars.

L

Now the cars are going to drive out of that section, then drive up onto haven, court.

L

So they're going to disturb the pedestrians twice, the other thing that became very apparent when I.

L

Went downtown for mother's day to try to find a cookie, but unfortunately, every restaurant and ho.

L

And place was packed with all those other mothers. I don't know why, but is that that street.

L

Tons of cars go down it going in and out of that parking garage. I was really floored by.

L

How many cars use that street coming and going from there? So I don't think that could ever be.

L

A pedestrian only street if we want to be able to allow people to use the parking garage and.

L

The parking garage needs as many entrances, because otherwise it lines up like crazy.

L

All along fleet street and hanover street so having that third entrance is important.

L

I think I do want to say that I'd like to thank the jarvis family for maintaining the.

L

Structures for as long as they did, and I do want to tell you that when I did my research.

L

I looked up the hotel quite a lot on the anthonym website. I also looked it up online and interesting.

L

In ireland there is a hotel that looks very similar to the national hotel. That was here in.

L

Portsmouth, it was also called the national hotel. So when you do a search for the national hotel.

L

In portsmouth new hampshire, you sometimes get these pictures of the one in ireland.

L

The one in portsmouth I never found any pictures that they had a drop off underneath the building. I.

L

Only found it with the drop off here, I'm not going to argue with you about it. It's it's not what I've.

L

Not what I was able to find. I just know that what I was able to find did not show that it showed the.

L

Cars pulling up on the street to dropping off there, so I think the the whole this end of the.

L

Building that you see now is absolutely hideous for the center of downtown portsmouth. Thank you.

A

So I'm thinking you know, you're seeing a lot of pushback and.

A

And um you keep bringing it back to us, as, if that all you have to do, is change a detail or two.

A

And then we'll go oh! This is good now so um you're getting a lot of pushback, I'm not sure. If there's.

A

uh You know it's up to you to actually look at individual members and see what the vote could.

A

Possibly be you know, this is really part of your job, but um you have to figure out what you think.

A

You need to do um to get an approval, is what I'm saying and I'm feeling this will push back.

A

So that's about all I can say right now: I've got a lot to do, got a lot to do. Yeah all.

C

Righty so uh continue continuing indefinite time next month or next month, right yeah, so.

A

Move toe. Second, second, all right.

A

All right here we go. We take a two minute break yeah. We can pick two two minutes. Oh no, two minutes.

A

It's gonna be at least three minutes. You already have time. I can't do nothing in three minutes.

F

J

Not the only thing.

J

Blossom might have done that too.

F

F

K

We've got one more of these, and this is going to be another one.

K

Then we move into this one which is going to be blue, and then this one is this is this: is the.

J

Mansion we've done this: this is the mansion, but they're coming back, they've got uh they've got to.

K

Do some wanting to open up something on the garage right yeah? They want to take off part of the.

K

They've got something on the garage. The carriage house, like they're, messing with the carriage.

K

K

Okay, this is okay, so reagan will be out for that. One.

K

And then she's not she's doing that one too isn't she.

F

Hi katie hi. How are you I didn't recognize you? I didn't believe you wait. These are long nights.

F

Is the 179 plus world street still on.

K

The second time.

D

You were very uh particular: yes, you're, a gold star.

J

Oh with this good views with you, uh you didn't say anything weird like martin, you.

F

I don't have more.

D

You have to find your own place.

D

J

I'm trying to be sensitive to your comment to me margo. Sometimes I don't know why you voted the way.

J

You did I'm going to make sure there's no question at the end. Why I'm voting the way I'm voting.

J

When you participate and you make comments that seem positive and then when you vote no.

H

I understand what you're saying those people might we never will. I think everybody knows that.

F

I'd like to think that everybody here has things that they have on the ground.

D

We're not even I I don't think, don't make your life difficult.

D

Because of us, I think everyone here will understand when you do that.

D

A better description of how you know, yeah.

A

And I don't see anything changed. She comes.

F

All righty, so let's go back on this one and we have a work session requested by.

A

445 marcy street llc owner for property located at 445 marcy street, wherein permission is.

A

Requested to allow the construction of a new single family residence with attached garage.

A

As for plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on assessor map. 101 is.

A

Lot three and lies within the general residence b and historic districts. I'm here is to present.

A

This good evening, tracy kozak arc of architects here with the applicants, jim and gail sanders.

N

This is a house they're building for themselves on a property they've owned for a while.

N

uh We again submitted uh submitted some just one updated rendering I'll link the hand around so.

N

We posted it to the website, but it's here we've been playing with different colors. We've looked at.

N

Green brown, gray blue, so I know color is not in your purview, but this shows some of.

N

The changes we've made the biggest changes we lowered the top of the roof three feet.

N

And we uh you'll see some comparative height drawings. That was the main discussion last time.

N

We did that by changing the roof pitch from a yep on the primary gable from a 1012 to a 912.

N

We took six inches out of each floor, we're holding the first floor elevation at 13 feet to.

N

Be prepared for sea level rise, I think you will find as the years roll by all the.

N

Neighbors will be lifting up their houses as well, so this won't be such a big thing.

N

We've added fences around the perimeters we lowered the height of the west porch and the.

N

Garage west eve by a foot we simplified the detailing on that west freeze, board and porch.

N

We received a calculated engineered average grade plane from the engineers as they have developed.

N

The grading on the site, it actually lowered the average grade plane, which is an imaginary line.

N

Because they're designing basically a swale, a retention pond in the lower corner on partridge.

N

Street to help mitigate the flooding and the design of the water management design of this.

N

Parcel will actually improve the flooding that currently happens on partridge street.

N

In so doing, it lowers that imaginary grade plane on drawings, but that is reflected accurately in.

N

These drawings, so while it may look like the building has not changed in height.

N

More than a foot, it actually has, as you measure absolute from sea level, it's three feet: lower.

N

Okay, we decrease the height of the top of wall, so the wall height is lower. The.

N

Height the wall height between the first floor and second floor windows is decreased.

N

That was a comment from last time and we adjusted the sizes of the windows and.

N

Tweaked the proportions of those to better balance, the wall to glazing ratios.

N

We changed the transom windows of the garage doors to a shutter, louver style.

N

We we started playing with some of the textures of the siding and the trim. We have used we're.

N

Reflecting here in these drawings and a six six inch exposure on the clapboards.

N

And shingles, whereas previously we had four, we have increased the corner boards from four.

N

Inches to six inches, we have added a return jam trim to the windows on the clapboards.

N

We are showing solar panels on the rear, south roof. We are targeting a net zero energy.

N

Goal to this property in light of the climate challenges that it's facing.

N

Out of the fences we remove the curb cut on prey street. It's just a walkway. Now.

N

And we have some preliminary materials to discuss with you as well. Those are the changes.

C

Any of these yeah: where are we that's a summary of the changes? So, if you'd like to start from.

N

The beginning, I'm happy to take you through the drawing set uh just the drawing, isn't it.

N

All right, that's the back of the package. If you want to go to the front, I think we should start.

N

At the beginning, if you could do you really want to do that? Do you want to go to questions.

C

Is everybody lost? Do you want to look at? I think we should look through the drawings.

N

We've submitted, if we could please, I would love to explain to you what we did. Okay, let's do it go. You.

N

Don't want to look at the drawings, no, she does all right. That's the site plan. um The footprint.

N

Is not much different other than we've reduced the scope of pavement, so I won't spend any time.

N

On this, but it's there for reference as well as this one you can cruise by these. These were asked.

N

For last time, so we've included them and those are the two-dimensional comparisons of roof heights.

N

If you were to lay a giant piece of plywood across this neighborhood you'll see that the buildings.

N

To the north are taller than the buildings to the south, our building's right in the middle, and it.

N

Would not topple the plywood, so it's right in the middle. The building to the left is six feet.

N

Higher the buildings to the right are lower, but we have the one story: garage form on the right.

N

Side of the building to transition down to that lower neighborhood, that's what these drawings are.

N

These are the two dimensional elevations, with the corresponding roof height.

N

And trim adjustments that I just described. That's the side elevation to the west. There.

N

Will be a six foot fence in front of that and then another house, presumably on the empty lot.

N

Which will be built? This is the back elevation. It is set way back from partridge street.

N

There is a driveway access there and just interesting side note. We have met with.

N

Tac and they were concerned about what the street address would be, because the front.

N

Door is on praise street, but your garage door is on partridge street. So there's a little back.

N

And forth over you're kidding, um yes well, so they want this. The uh street address.

N

This house to be parcha street because that's where the garage and driveway is um so that.

N

Is where it landed with tack, and if we want it to be different, we have to ask for a variant.

A

So didn't you didn't the cars drive through before they did that, so that.

N

Requires a variance to have two curb cuts on a single property um that may be something we.

N

Will pursue uh per request of the fire department because they want to be able to.

N

Come to an emergency to the front of a bill, what they perceive is the building address from the.

N

Building they need, they would like be able to pull their emergency vehicle into a driveway.

N

If possible, so that would be the argument for putting it back on prairie street, but.

N

We're kind of at their whim right now and seeing which way the wind blows.

N

This is the east side elevation facing the neighboring property.

N

Again there will be a six foot fence there. There is one now.

N

That's the view from prey street more towards marcy. That's the front porch. We.

N

Lowered the roof, we raised the porch floor, so it's more human scaled. The whole thing kind.

N

Of got a little more cozy and the view from the other side of prey and again the ren. That's the.

N

Same view of the rendering I handed around, which is more accurate as to what it will actually be.

C

Tracy, you really doing a two foot fence that is a three foot fence really, that is a three foot.

N

Fence yep and the back porch again this will be heavily screened. You won't really see it from.

N

The public way, because along partridge street there is heavy vegetation, there will be a fence.

N

It's meant to be a very private backyard. There are solar panels. I want to point out on the upper roof.

A

And this is the front door. No, that is not that is kind of the back door. That is the back porch.

N

That is a handicapped entrance, be um so that, uh because the building's elevated um we don't.

N

Want to put a giant ramp in front of the house, so we've located a handicapped door.

N

Halfway, so that we can slope the grade up without handrails to allow wheelchair access.

N

And in context again, the larger buildings are to the north and.

N

The smaller buildings are to the south. This is a view from the north.

N

And that is the view from the south with the one-story garage elements on the back.

N

And that in the new rendering is all we have, we do have some handouts of potential exterior.

N

Materials to discuss if you would like to have talk about materials, we'd love to do so.

A

I think that we're I mean our last meeting was still about the size of the structure, and so you.

A

Have made a lot of changes and I'm feeling that that's what we should be talking about.

A

Is everyone uh on on board, and um so with that in mind, I'd like to get some comments going.

A

Do I have to call on people.

D

uh Sure, of course, you do um so.

D

Putting you on the spot yeah, I know it um so.

D

A couple of a couple of quick questions, I think just functional things, um we're assuming it's some.

D

Sort of metal roofing- it's gonna- have a collar. You haven't quite decided yet, but you're close.

D

That's: okay! It's not going to rise or fall on that. I'm sure um the.

D

A nagging a couple inaccuracy the round window in the cable end.

D

Has no trim, how do you bring your shingles to that.

N

That well I'm happy to talk about how to do that. um We're actually showing a smooth board.

N

So it would be crafted as a return like a jam return just a smooth board. uh It's it's supposed.

N

To be white, as it is updated in the updated rendering it's a white board that goes around.

N

We don't have uh the four inch surface casing around it, though, and if um I've kind of gone.

N

Back and forth on that uh shingles is sometimes hard to handle yeah situations like that yeah.

D

um Next question: um it appears that your windows are the sashes themselves, are quite recessed.

D

Are you building like a kennedy wall? It is a an 18-inch wall. It's a double stud wall, insulated.

N

So that we can get net zero energy, so even with the windows recessed, it looks to be about seven.

D

Inches, it's still going to be 10 inches to the windows from the inside notice. That's just at the.

N

Clapboard siding we push the windows out to the surface on the bump outs, which are shingles so.

N

um That's basically a reflection of a video that there's a box and then there's.

N

Things that were added to it, similar to a lot of the homes in the area start with a box and.

N

Then you have an l or a porch or something so. The bump outs are shingles they're secondary.

N

In deference to the original box- and they have a slightly different application of the trim and the.

N

Plane of glass to wall so we're creating a very deliberate and consistent language between the box.

N

And the add-ons with those two different styles: it appears that in the rendering you have uh what.

D

Appears to be a stand, what a normal shingle on the drawings that we've been looking at! You.

D

Show a rusticated shingle surface yeah. I would say that one is one attracts more attention to.

D

Itself, um I I think I like the the smoother one better myself, but it's kind of a.

N

Function of the textures we had in our model at the time happy to get your input on that.

D

um I think a stately building, like this shows better with the straight line of the shingle.

D

When you consider that the shingle, even with straight lines, provides a lot of texture.

D

And this building, I don't think, is looking for texture changing the sizes of the trim.

D

Some of the trim elements has has had a tendency successfully. I think, to reduce the apparent scale.

D

Of portions of this um next question is: is that really an industrial looking railing that goes.

D

Around the parapet of the roof walk, it's meant to be a glass, a glass rail with a metal cap.

N

Yeah I want two: is that your first choice, the intent, is to make it as invisible as possible. So.

N

um You know we could maybe make it just a simple cast iron bar to make it really disappear. You.

N

Know it only sticks up from the top of that roof about um nine or ten. My eye just jumps.

D

Right to it, maybe I'm a picky bastard. You know what it's showing yeah, it's showing white here.

D

Okay, um next thing to say is I I believe you were successful in your pulling the deck surface.

D

Up and pulling the roof surface down, the porch looks very much more on human scale. I'm walking.

D

The street up to the site, a couple of porches on the grander houses that you're relating to.

D

We're describing yourself as relating to and their portraits, were not really of great stature.

D

Or magnitude their portraits were pretty human, and this more closely approaches that.

D

I'd say you did some work on this thing and that's great. Thank you very much. Okay, fargo.

J

um I appreciate the effort to to bring the height down.

J

But I'm not sure that the height was.

J

The the biggest element of the mass that was bothering me tall and skinny doesn't bother me.

J

Much it does to me, it doesn't read as much in mass, but when you have big bass and tall.

J

Or you have big bass and not so tall to me, it still reads as a very large mass, particularly.

J

Compared to the mass of a lot of the neighbors being down on holmes court for the same agenda,.

J

Reminded of the very very small footprints that are in that neighborhood recognizing, however,.

J

That you are not on a small lot, you have a big lot and therefore it can take a bigger house. So.

J

I'm torn because I recognize the effort that you've made, but I still feel the building is.

J

A little bit big for its neighbors, I like some of the changes that you've made some.

J

Of the textures you're, showing, I think, make the building read broken up, which helps with the mass.

J

So but I'm going to leave it there.

I

I uh I would have liked to seen there I think, there's a couple things you could do to.

I

To really you know, tackle this mass issue, and one of them is the the intersecting gable. The.

I

The gable that kind of serves as the third floor bedroom- I I think it could be more of a dormer.

I

Than a gable, if you were to it's awkward already, because it seems like the whole building wants to.

I

Flip over is heavy on one side. If you took that ridge, if you took that ridge frame, it.

I

Brought it down a couple of feet and you brought in the the surface of that cable.

I

In a couple feet, you'd still have the space inside and yet you'd have less of a sense of massing for.

I

This for this building, I think you could also take and cut the ridge for the garage portion of it as.

I

You know it doesn't have to come in and go right into the house. It could probably be cut and give.

I

A sense that the garage element is a piece in and of itself, and so is the house a piece in.

I

And of itself- and that would go a long way to- I think that, because there's a lot of roof on this.

I

Which brings me to my next comment, which really bothers me is the: is the solar panels.

I

If you put the solar panels on this roof, I see this as and right now. Solar panels is very popular.

I

And I don't like them for several reasons: they're they're they're. You know foreign made they're.

I

Full of chemicals, but mostly aesthetically, they're glass, they're, they're they're. Just this high-tech.

I

uh Computer-Aged looking surface, that's that's inappropriate for his our historic district.

I

um I'm just afraid if, if this goes up the rest, there's no reason the floyd gates are open.

I

We can't say that solar panels don't belong anywhere in the historic district and I I think.

I

That's a horrible thing to unleash on this community. I really do it's very unpopular to.

I

Say that, but I I just don't think solar panels belong in some of our residential traditional.

I

Parts of our historic district, we brought some cut sheets of solar panels. They are evolving.

N

Very fast in the technologies and there's a lot of options out there they're, not the solar panels. You.

N

Saw five years ago they have zero reflectivity materials. Now they have solar panels that look.

N

Like roofing or siding, you can even have them. Look like glass, you don't know they're there.

N

The ones that we're looking at are low profile, so they are in line with the plane of the roof.

N

They don't stick up, you don't see the grids, they don't shine like a mirror, so we would definitely.

N

Want to take care that they blend in with the roof skate. We think it's. It is critical to a net zero.

N

Building to have renewable energy on site, there's just no way around that I get it I'd be receptive.

A

To that back and forth on this we're looking for comments. Well, it's an important element. The solar.

I

Panels are gonna, I mean this is the historic district commission. It's not the sustainability.

A

Commission say to your comment: it reminds me of a city council member that was part of our board and.

A

She was always saying once we made one decision, then that essentially opened up the floodgates.

A

And it's not true what we always push back and we had to convince her. A number of times was that you.

A

Know we look at each project separately and they are all about the context of where they are that's.

A

The only thing I'm going to say about your opening up the floodgates comment. I think these will be.

I

Very exposed to to the community, and we can't tell people they can't have them. I understand dan.

E

But I think height has been the issue on this house and on the neighbors, and I appreciate the.

E

Dropping down at three feet, but that front peak, especially along prairie street, where there's.

E

A lot of just two-story houses, I think, still overwhelms that neighborhood.

E

That could be reduced. I think you said as a dormer, maybe rather than such an obvious height.

E

On that short prey street, I think it would be. That would be helpful too. The rest, I think, you've.

E

Done well and the porch proportions are great. I think the house has some fun details. um I've.

E

Been watching that solar too, and hopefully it's going to get down to looking just like shingles.

E

But who knows, but I had problems with the height of the dormer, on on the very small prairie street.

K

um So I I appreciate what you did too. I think you've made some nice changes. I am concerned.

K

About the amount of roof that is there, and I think martin has a good thought about whether the peak.

K

Of the garage has to be as high and maybe the the front door with the with the circle window.

K

Whether that could be reduced to help with the neighboring buildings, but I will chime in on the.

K

On the solar panels as well, in that my experience on this committee has been that we've allowed.

K

Them where they've been hidden- and I know that they're changing but they're, not there yet and.

K

um I think it could be a problem because they're really visible, there's no hiding them at all.

K

And um so I would just weigh in on that that I think it could be a problem for the rest of.

K

The south end, okay. um I would also agree that uh with martin that, um if you could.

A

Turn this uh peak on prey street into a dormer. I think that that would take care of.

A

90 of the heartburn that a lot of people have, in my opinion, I assume that there's something.

A

Going on with the garage so you're able to walk from the regular house into the garage.

A

Area, or are you only able to access that little space above the garage from the garage? Is there.

A

Like a staircase that you go up, or can you walk through from the second floor of the house.

N

The um floor plans are in there, but the first. The garage is connected to the house. The garage floor.

N

Is three feet lower than the house first floor? So there's a short staircase inside the garage to.

N

Get up the second floor aligns between the attic of the garage and the second floor of the house.

A

So it's just an attic, it's an attic. Basically, so the the possibility does exist that you could.

A

Stop the connection between the garage, if that would make it I mean this is something space.

N

We'd, you know still want to be able to access it. um Well, if it wasn't there, you couldn't access it.

A

You'd still have the garage over you'd still have the attic over the garage.

A

It just wouldn't be quite as long if, if that space were there and it didn't connect.

A

With the house so to speak, yeah I think they're they're going to use it as a bedroom. So.

N

um Now it's a bedroom, it's not yes, but it's under the eaves completely. It's not a second floor.

N

Yeah all right, so um I guess that my comments were, if you could just you know, turn that into a dormer.

A

A bit, and otherwise I think it you've drawn a very good house here- you've. Essentially, you have.

A

Something that looks like it could be on richard's avenue or something you know going up. So is it.

A

Appropriate to the colonial homes, not really, but then there are other victorian homes in that area.

A

That you know on marcy street, as we all know, so uh I'm feeling that, uh because of the size of the.

A

Lot that this is a good fit and I think that you've done a lot of work and it's worked out.

A

So where are we sitting on that public comment? I'm sorry can, can we talk about materials at all or.

N

Not yet no, no, you want to try to scare us with something or no. No, it's not scary. It's uh wood.

N

And uh sorry um yeah, so um a wood, clapboards and shingles we'd like to use it's we're.

N

Showing painted or stained, but that is a thermally, heated wood, so it lasts longer.

N

You don't have to paint it as often windows, either pella or colby we'd love to do.

N

A clad so that it's more durable either the fiberglass clad colbys, which have been.

N

Approved elsewhere in the neighborhood, as well as the aluminum, clad pellets on both of and around.

N

The trim is the poly ash boral composite trim, which paints up like wood. It would be painted.

N

um You want this stuff yeah. Okay, there are all sorts of options on the metal roofing.

N

We're sort of indicating a standing seam, but I mean they have some some interesting.

N

Options they have the shingled standing seam, they have molded metal. That looks like.

N

Shingles they have synthetic slate if you don't like the metal but we'd like to use.

N

Something durable and the color is up for grabs, we're showing all sorts of different colors on.

N

The various drawings there's a dark gray there we have a tan and the blue drawing oh. This is.

N

The building in brown, natural left to weather, not stained and that's more of a sand roof so.

N

What do you feel about that? The owner prefers the blues? Oh.

N

How do you feel about excuse me, natural wood, that's left to weather in that spot, yeah. Oh.

N

I'm happy to have that it should explain. That's what it seems like you might see in that spot.

A

On this house it's you know, this is kind of a little house in a way, and it would it.

A

Probably would have been patient, you know the shingles stained or something similar to that.

A

So without stopping your materials, I think that we have to listen to the public, and then you have.

A

To we will need a continuance brown, so is anybody in the public would like to speak on this project?.

A

Yes, there's a seat here.

E

Good evening my name is john everline. I live in 454 marcy street property owner you're. All.

E

At home you know me uh I'll be very brief, because I know everybody wants to get away.

E

um I appreciate that you've brought down the the total height above sea love. I believe it was 47.

E

4 before and it's now down to 41 and change, so that's good, but about a foot and a half of.

E

That is the drop in the average grade, and so I think speak for the folks on praise street when.

E

I'd say, the real concern is not necessarily the absolute height above sea level, but the massing.

E

That they're going to be facing when they see this house and reflecting some of the comments. I've.

E

Heard here tonight I think the massing is still an issue for the folks on praise street, who are.

E

You know, admittedly, they've they've had a vacant lot for years that jim and.

E

Gail have had to pay the taxes on, and I appreciate you know that they haven't developed it to this.

E

Point that's their right to do so, but the folks, the one concern that just comes out is that the.

E

Massing is still an issue, and that's really all I have to say: do you think that reducing the roof.

A

Line on prey street and making that into a dormer would that be helpful, that that would be a step in.

E

The right direction and just reducing the overall roof um roof coverage. It would it's it's just.

E

Compared to the colonials that are on praise street and they're going to be facing it, even if.

E

The tack and sister address is on partridge street. You know you're you're you're, facing.

E

The folks on praise street and they're they're, the ones that are the most concerned about just.

E

Having it in their face- um and I realize it's a subjective decision that you all have to make.

E

um But that's that's just the way the folks feel about it. That's the way it rolls and you.

A

Know you can't build a house with uh six foot, two ceilings on the second floor anymore, right.

A

Or seven foot, you know you just can't do that. So the just the um zoning and the building.

A

Code yeah is forcing the hype up and that sort of stuff you know it's just.

A

The way it is, but there are, I guess there are ways people have talked here tonight about.

E

Reducing the massing and all of those would be good suggestions to sort of.

E

Make it more livable for the folks on prairie street right? Okay, thank you very much. Anybody else.

K

Hi, um my name is janine mccoy and I live at 499 marcy street. I want to begin by thanking you all for.

K

Your service- this is yeoman effort that you put in here and so many of the folks in the city. Don't.

K

Know or appreciate it, and I do because when I um started looking for a house to buy here in 1990.

K

I knew I wanted to be in the historic district and not just any old place in portsmouth, and I.

K

Really feel grateful to have been able to found and afforded a home back then.

K

And so jim and gail have been my neighbors, I guess I became their neighbor because they were.

K

There, when I moved- and I just want to speak in favor of their proposal, I understand that I've.

K

Been given to understand that there are folks in the neighborhood that have some concerns about.

K

You know a home going a large home going on that piece of property, but I think that.

K

Really, we've all known that at some point there was going to be a large home that would go on.

K

That piece of property- and I can't tell you how relieved I was to find that it was jim and gail.

K

Sanders who we're going to be building? Because, if there's anyone that is going to take care.

K

To you know, be part of the neighborhood and fit into the neighborhood. And, as was pointed out by.

K

The prior speaker, they have maintained this lot, this large lot in portsmouth for a long.

K

Time really for the neighborhood, and I think that um when you look at this view of the house.

K

It's really hard to get a sense of the context you know of the neighborhood and.

K

Frankly, I don't think it's that large, when you're looking at that, you know size lot and.

K

So anyway, I just want to again thank everybody for their input, which I know I can tell that.

K

Tracy has has utilized it already and I'm sure she and jim and gail will continue to. But.

K

I would rather see a large home of theirs going on that property. Then um you know something that was.

K

Perhaps smaller, but not as invested in the neighborhood, so thank you very much. Thank you.

A

So um anybody else is anybody else. We could uh have a vote on a continuance for next month.

F

So moved seconded, okay, all those in favor say aye. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you.

C

Guys outside bringing it in oh we're, bringing it in. um We have kind of an embarrassing situation.

A

Here, where we have pizzas showing up this is a first in htc. I ordered a couple pizzas for us.

D

I've never done.

A

So um I'm not sure what to do, but I we're into work sessions new business. So uh I'm just going.

A

To read it all right work session, requested by mill pond view llc owner for property located.

A

At 179 pleasant street, wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing.

A

Structure, minor demolition, reconstruction, restoration and renovation of the accessory.

A

And the historic district we're here to speak about this.

H

Hi, this is uh carla goodnight from cj, architects, jake, jake weeder as well, and david calkins.

H

How are you guys holding up tired.

F

Everybody's waiting.

H

All right: well, then, I will do my best to keep it moving. How about that.

H

All right, thank you chairman. I will do so. Thank you very much just pretend now.

A

You're gonna need that too, so it won't ruin our good clothing, all right uh seriously.

F

Yeah, I'm just going to review the letter of agenda here quickly, which is.

H

Basically, what we have done is we were here prior looking at the historic captain's house.

H

At 179 pleasant street and uh did an extensive structural evaluation and many of you have walked.

H

Through that building and the grounds and seen the condition of things that are there and we are.

H

Now, starting our evaluation, we're a little bit farther into our evaluation of the.

H

Rest of it, because when we came before you for the house, we had just begun.

H

But now we've been able to, you know, really dig in and we're utilizing a lot of the same uh people.

H

That had in professionals who have gone through and what we've tried to do is.

H

Document everything very carefully the condition of the various elements and call out some of the.

H

More historically significant pieces that were you know, on the exterior and even on the interior.

H

So again, we have our existing condition: documentation of the three primary structures.

H

Which we're defining as the little dog leg as we affectionately named it on the last round.

H

And the the connector piece and then the carriage house itself, the original carriage house.

H

So we've documented that extensively we have the site plan. We have some very beginnings of some.

H

Massing studies and then we're looking at some historic precedent and then we've included again.

H

For reference, just for reference, the property timeline and our consultants, so the second.

H

Piece of the submittal is again marty. Gorham gorham structural engineering has gone through.

H

Extensively and has evaluated these uh many elements of all of these structures and I'll. Let.

H

Dave speak to that a little bit later, not too much later, and also dave has summarized his thoughts on.

H

Much in the same way that he did for the for the mansion, so.

H

Looking at page 2.0, this is the uh we have a key plan here down in the right.

H

Corner, so you can see exactly what photos we're looking at. This is our little dogleg piece.

H

And what we've tried to do just to? Because we've already.

H

We've had you you've seen all this, so we're just trying to document it for you.

H

Elevation a b c and d and then in detail. There is quite a bit of.

H

These are the three elevations from the 3d model and then we have some interior.

H

Photographs to the left, which show a lot of pressure treated cell repair, interior studs, have.

H

Been added, the brick foundation is looking pretty compromised here and then there's you know. Holes.

H

And things obviously someone's put some chicken wire there to try to keep rodents from coming in.

H

So there's a lot of foundation work that would that needs to be addressed there.

H

And then, when you get into the detail sheet of that same area, you can see that we have.

H

A fairly modern siding nail, we have significant amount of rot. It looks to be that the connector.

H

Piece was actually notched against the siding of the annex building at a later date. As you move.

H

Across the top row of photos, the intersection again poorly waterproof details resulting in a.

H

Lot of this descript destruction and then at the bottom uh you can see this brick shelf has really.

H

Acted as a platform for water to accumulate um and there's a significant amount of rot and.

H

Issues there I let it know like that. I know.

H

So, moving on to 2.2, looking at the front elevation.

H

The coming around to the side- and this is the um connector as highlighted in yellow a b and c.

H

uh Again, you know I the as we get to the detail page I'll point some things out, but.

H

You can see the level of um disrepair on some of these areas in the inside corner that corner.

H

Board at the bottom row is pretty much rotted out the siding is rotted out and that post base.

H

In the first photo sorry I'll start trying to stay in order, the first photo with the post base. So.

H

Moving on to 2.3, here we got into the details of that area. You can see.

H

Primarily new siding, a new barn door trim, the door itself is also relatively new materials.

H

Siding rot insufficient flashing. These bottom two photos. uh I believe we actually. We have.

H

Some historic antiquities here that we're happy about um the I'm sorry where, which ones are those.

D

The bottom two page, two, three two point: three, the bottom two: these are the photographs.

H

The one that says possible historic corbel, those areas we have been advised may be.

H

Historic, um you know, that's not I'm! I'm struck, I'm sorry. I've never seen anything like that.

H

At all, oh um I you know, I was surprised by that, but that's what our yeah! It's that's a that's a.

D

Kind of a queen in motif yeah, uh yeah honestly, uh but that's what they um eighteen hundreds.

D

You know um oh, come on later, it's funny. um Okay, continue uh anyway, we'll address some of that.

O

Dave when I move into my next piece working sort of dating so the historic doors you can see the.

H

Hinges no question, I'm I think we're all on that page pretty. That was pretty obvious. So.

H

That's what we're thinking of the doors on the historic doors, with the historic hinges on 2.3 and.

H

Moving on to 2.4, this is a lot of the interior. We did find an original.

H

Hinge on one small door of the connector, it was a single hinge at the top. I think we may.

H

Have seen that no, we didn't on the walkthrough. The structure at the base is compromised. The.

H

Repairs have not been done. Well again. We have the floor. Framing.

H

Made up of repurposed beams sitting on the dirt um and most of this new framing from the 1979 carport.

H

And one of the interesting things if you look at the ceiling of this lower left photo uh on the.

H

Lower left corner photo where it says: 1979 carport. You can see.

H

Almost all I'm not going to say all, but almost all of the original members.

H

Have been removed, and repurposed at least once for in various iterations of this design, so.

H

Anything original has been moved from its original location and used for whatever iteration. This is.

H

Then there is new framing at the rear wall and then some half lap post rot repair as seen.

H

Throughout kind of going on there, and then we do have that historic privy, which is another puzzle.

H

It's a puzzle, I mean it. The privy itself, we've heard is historic, but a lot of the wall around it.

H

Looks historic inside but on the outside of it it doesn't so it's it's again sort of a patchwork.

H

um Sorry, I'm sorry to do this. I know you kill me you're doing your run here, but.

D

Where is the historic privilege yeah? I don't know.

D

It doesn't pop on me it's in um it's in the connector barn. It's in that connector.

O

So connector it's in the two point. Four there's no pictures on it. There's a piece that bumps into the.

D

Right kitchen, l that runs back that that's to me looks like it would be the way to get to the privy.

D

um Yes- and it runs into uh one of those half gabled uh sheds right that runs across which.

D

Then springs into a arched or carriageway bumps into the formal carriage power.

H

Right right, it's behind the wall of the carport. We didn't.

O

If you look at 2.3 and look at the key plan, that's in your bottom right corner.

O

Okay, so we have the mansion. What we are calling the annex, then the dog house or the dog trot.

O

Connector and the piece highlighted in yellow, if you were to walk through that dog trot connector.

O

Enter into the yellow piece facing the carriage house, your immediate left is where this.

O

Two-Seat privy is what's interesting to note I'll get into it later. Is that the floor.

O

System actually doesn't go underneath the privy and the wall system is built around the privy.

O

So it's almost as if the privy was there, the connecting structure was then built around the.

O

Privy and we've on, we've removed the part of the flooring and there was a loose stacked stone wall.

O

Underneath only the privy so um I'll discuss that further, but it is in that location. There.

O

Does that answer your question dave? It comes real close. I'm trying to wrap my head around.

D

Because there are some things, some parts of this, I'm sure that everybody here recognize.

D

We've seen things like that before and and it's hard to put the dates and parts of it together,.

D

I did my own little tour, um it's difficult and and- and I I was looking at uh trying to stay outside.

D

Without getting yelled at um and and I was looking for, siding issues and I found uh that there were.

D

uh Scarf clapboards uh for siding on the part that bumps into the kitchenette, but not the last little.

D

Piece of it with its own separate roofline, I assume that got changed when the kitchenail.

D

Got changed at some point um and then the uh the the so I found scarf clapboards on on that.

D

Little piece on the the half shed portion, which the privy you're describing is in and I found.

D

Scarf collaborates on the carriage house in the upper plains of it. So to me, it all is a a blend.

D

Of things more than likely at different times, but all pretty much coalescing somewhere around the.

D

Time that the kitchenail was built on the house, so I know that this is getting out of carla's.

O

Format, but all of that I will address with you after we get through this yeah.

A

I'm not sure where we're going, because we're supposed to be looking at what's existing.

A

And what you are going to be presenting to us for ideas and at this time I'm not sure if we need to.

A

Delve into the history of the house, especially on a night when we have five more people after you.

A

Excuse me: okay, you know what I'm saying. um So what are you ripping down and what are you keeping.

A

And what are you doing well, what we want to do is just bring you up to speed on our findings.

H

As this would be context and massing, so we're looking at context, which is the condition.

H

And the impacts of the historic structure, so, given that you have most of you, have been.

H

On site and have seen most of this and walked around the building.

N

And you've been in it, so you understand that it's in pretty heavy disrepair.

H

And um you know we can, and we did talk about a lot of this and it is the hour- is late. So.

H

If you, if I, if I may john, I completely understand what you're saying it's also important to us as.

O

We've started out on this process from the get-go that we're not taking the property lightly. It's.

O

A historically significant property and we're doing our due diligence so in interest of that.

O

Let me just express to you what we found, because our our mission, or the way we've approached this.

O

Has been first understand what the property has gone through? What is the origination of these.

O

Structures and then be able to report that to you, which then also directs our course of action.

O

In design and what we feel is appropriate for the building, this is our second iteration on.

A

These holes on this whole back section, including the carriage housing, because the previous owner.

A

Took us all through this thing and we've seen all this stuff, it's nice that you're, showing it again.

A

So if you can give a synopsis in five minutes, you got it okay, I'll do it in four. So to dave's point.

O

We understand there's uh deterioration in the building. However, I'm gonna start from the carriage.

O

House working back because the carriage house is the easiest through looking at materials building.

O

Methods, construction methods, nails etc. With various consultants, the carriage house is original.

O

All right 1784, they top-hatted the building. What I mean by that is the whole first floor is all gone.

O

It's basically the attic floor system, roof floor or roof framing is original 1784. same methods as.

O

Used in the mansion same material moving on so my what we feel is that in 1784 the mansion was.

O

Built the kitchen l, which was then later replaced by the annex and the carriage house, were original.

O

1859 mark wentworth purchases, the property somewhere between 1859 and 1889, as we're going.

O

Through the mansion- and we find indicators of newspapers, he undergoes a massive transformation.

O

With the property stylistically and adds on at this point, I believe the connector building is.

O

Added, it's not original. It's added why I say that is because it is a timber frame structure, but the.

O

Joinery is completely different: they're half lap joints they're, not mortise and tendon. There's no.

O

Pegs there's large nails. It's been cut up as carla mentioned over the years and repurposed.

O

But the where the gable ends are still intact. The joinery is different, also to dave's point the.

O

Siding the joint the lap joints are different than the mansion, the mansion, the lap joints are about.

O

An inch and a quarter, the lap joints on one wall of the connector building is more like two inch.

O

So and it's different from the upper part of the carriage house so to me.

O

That says: that's a different error. um Moving on now mark wentworth has the property from 1859 to.

O

1903, at which point he passes it on to susan wentworth, here's daughter, then I believe she adds.

O

On the dog trot connector, which then accesses the entire property, without going outside.

O

Reason I say that is again now we're talking we're looking at machine material inside it. It's been.

O

Touched so many times it's hard to say, but the sort of the timeline works. The the mansion kitchen.

O

L carriage house 1784. mark wentworth purchase it kitchenell goes away. Annex carriage house stays.

O

Intact but he adds the connector barn and then from there susan wentworth takes it over, connects.

O

All the structures after 1940 when she passes the building undergoes numerous renovations, which then.

O

You know we talk about so that is it's important to note that, because we're very sensitive to the.

O

Original structure 1784. we're prepared to do whatever is necessary with the carriage house.

O

This now leads in the conversation about the connecting structures and.

O

We're looking for what is historically significant here so to dave's point: uh it's not immediately.

H

Apparent you know what what we're looking at without doing all this. Looking at all these.

H

Pieces and determining so um to your point. Moving on to 3.0, looking at the site plan outlining the.

H

Existing buildings moving on to 4.0 what we're finding is in all of these explorations that the.

H

Carriage house is really significant. The addition off the back is not- and you know this from before.

H

And we're also finding that there is not much left in that connector piece worth doing.

H

Anything with other than gathering the pieces together that we can find and saving them and.

H

Repurposing them in some way the pieces on the exterior that actually have value or add value.

H

The foundation under the carriage house is in significant disrepair. There's water issues, there's.

H

Water shedding into the side, we saw some of that. I skipped over my carriage house analysis, so.

H

That we can move a little faster. Thank you, you're welcome. I know you've been out there, so we would.

H

Need to raise lift the carriage house rebuild the foundation under there, put it on solid ground and.

H

Put the carriage house back what about the rock found foundation? That's on the uphill side, the.

A

Uphill side, what happens with that? We have to get into it uphill side of the carriage house.

H

Against the property, the property property or whatever the roof comes down to the.

F

Sure to the ground virtually uh we're we're really guessing that there's a foundation there.

O

On the inside, all you can see is a brick wall. That's servicing as like a one-sided.

O

Retaining wall it's actually built in front of the wood framing right, so we can't even see the.

O

Exterior wall on that side, because we have a brick wall on the inside and we have exterior grade.

O

Up to it, so is there a foundation there, I've yeah, you hope. What is this is this job security, yeah.

D

That's a hell of a thing to tackle how much, how much of the carriage house you anticipate.

D

How much of the thing that looks like the carriage house, I do anticipate getting back there.

O

My this is conceptual my plan, okay and you can laugh after. I tell you, but conceptually my plan.

O

Would be to run steel I-beams right through the first floor of that thing, cut the uh cut.

O

It at the junction of the top plate and crane the whole top of it off, potentially set it in.

O

The backyard or we'd have to cradle in the front yard. Then everything else has to go away in there.

O

It's going to be a very tricky situation within the neighbor and that that embankment there, but.

O

It is retaining grade so that would have to get a sufficient foundation footing.

O

Rebuild the first floor and then put it back on top if we find granite blocks in that buried.

H

Underneath all that he will be repurposed for sure I mean the ground comes right up against the first.

A

Floor right, oh margo, I'm sorry! So I I just like to like jump to the end here. So I'm looking at.

J

4.0, yes, I was here, I was here when we did the previously approved, oh good and so from a massing.

J

Point of view, what I see you putting here conceptually is very similar in some ways.

J

A little bit smaller than what was approved before, I think, from a mass point of view, I have no issues.

J

Whatsoever with what you're putting here and how you're technically going to achieve it.

J

I applaud you, I'm not trying to know okay, all right so I'll quickly, quickly go through this.

H

Then they exist just so. You can see them all side by side. um We are trying to step away from.

H

The layers of shedding roofs of the previous approval and do something a little cleaner.

H

Maybe a t-shape something that has you know all occurring. You know behind the building. It's all.

H

In screened, by surrounding properties visible from virtually nowhere- and I think that is.

H

Sort of you know, we know, didn't even make any attempt to do anything out in front at any point.

H

In either phase one or phase two, so what we'd like to do is look at historic precedent for working on.

H

This connector piece, which is quickly 5.0, some examples that we have found to be appropriate.

H

5.1, I love this little frank jones snippet there in the upper right corner.

H

And the arches, uh the arches, are sort of universal language of a carriage house in this area.

H

And we've picked some some other examples of of cupolas and peaked roofs of various.

H

Dormer types and so forth, and that's basically where we're at with the.

H

The possible architectural options for executing that massing and that's that's where we're at.

H

Does anybody else have any questions for her.

D

A couple of comments, if I could be as quick as I can quick as I can, um I think that there's an.

D

Implied symmetry to the front of the carriage house, and I think that the commission would.

D

Miss that sorely, I don't believe that there's any extraordinary historic fabric or precedent in the.

D

Arched, carriageway, okay and, and- and so I don't think anyone here is going to have any heartburn.

D

If that goes away, I personally have a bit of an unnatural affection to the shed roofed.

D

Connecting things there are four, you worked at one nathan parkers. I worked on wendell. I worked on the.

D

Rumble of we have one that we actually moved out onto the street, william whipple's house. There.

D

Aren't many of them they're a unique federal period uh form they show up around 18-5 no.

D

One builds another one after 1820. so and I think that there are such a unique feature. It's sort of.

D

A stamp of the I'm from portsmouth is what I would say to you. So uh that's my feelings. Okay, is there.

H

An image in particular that you're, which piece are you talking about? What piece are you talking about.

D

The arched faced half shed, I mean the best one is oh yes, I know what you mean now. I know what.

H

You mean made completely to pieces carriage house, I picked up and moved and put on a new foundation.

D

I know that intimately. I believe that that's a very unique thing. You have a piece of something.

D

Like that, I would cling to it yes I'll be by someday and we'll go uh spill on me.

O

I look forward to that. Are you sorry? Let me just clarify: are you saying that you liked the idea.

B

Of adding arches or not, it's not so much the arches that I'm concerned about what I really.

D

I'm trying to to increase the value of this thing. That's there, so they don't try to redefine it with.

D

A with a gable, a cable roof yep. I totally agree with that. I just didn't know I was um yeah. I think.

B

We have lots of precedent for the for the arch ways, but it's not here and we have. This is a.

B

Very old connector piece- and it just has a squared opening with maybe old, maybe added.

B

Corals, you know decorative things I don't know, so I think I would just stick with the.

H

Yeah, I think one of the things that we found um is you know, speaking about what style is this house.

H

Because it was started in you know this period and then it was moved to another period and now.

H

You know any periods make up this house right and that we've been advised in different directions.

H

As to you know, pick a period and go with, it is what we've been told. I think period.

F

Yeah, I think you could also well.

B

I mean, I think you have the ability to to celebrate yeah the many different periods.

B

So, okay, I mean I'm not sure I mean if you want to have a discussion, that's going to go.

A

Drag on for three hours, looking at the nails and the pegs in the house.

A

And please so david would be the only one listening.

A

We have to be a special meeting without.

A

Maybe we should have done three this month. I don't know possibly um so we've heard you.

A

Know the conditions- and we know what's old and what's new okay, we'll be back for some plans.

H

Okay, we'll make it a two-step process, we'll go with a two-step process. This.

H

Time all right, thanks, john all, right! Thank you. uh Yeah any public have a good night.

A

Is there anybody in the public that wants to speak about this? Please not all right, so we have.

A

A work session requested by james, william woods and anna rowley minardi owner of the property.

A

Located at one walton alley where information is requested to allow new construction to an existing.

A

Construct structure, two-story addition and a detached single car garage.

A

Renovations from an existing structure replaces grouping removes skylights refence, the property.

A

As for plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on assessor map. 103 islam.

A

27 lies within general residence b, historic district who's here to speak on this.

G

uh Good evening, marc, junior, okay, gennady from academy architecture, I'm here with.

G

Richard desarton from our office as well uh and we're here to represent the applicants.

G

um The project is fairly small in scope, so hopefully we can go through quickly, for you.

G

But hopefully you're energized after the pizza, oh yeah, oh calories are flying so the property.

G

Is located on the corner of walton and gate street, as you can see on the conceptual site plan the the.

G

Existing building is kind of tucked back towards the south uh side of the property and the two.

G

Structures, we're looking to add are a small eight by twelve edition and then a one car garage.

G

Oh sorry, eight by fourteen um as you'll see in the area. That's uh in orange here is kind of the.

G

uh The part of the lot at least attached to the building that we're that's. We can build.

G

By right, uh the one car garage is within the setback and we'll part of the process. After.

G

We get your feedback tonight, we'll be looking to give you a variance for building the garage.

G

The garage is located just along the south property line, part of that of the location.

G

That we've selected here is basically access to the site. The existing driveway.

G

Is I'll skip to the audition first since then day, one.

G

The owner's plans for the house is to basically renovate and update the interior they're going to.

G

Maintain repair and replace existing siding.

G

Windows, the existing roof currently is asphalt. Shingle they plant it with.

G

About four or five skylights that are currently in it, they plan to remove the skylights.

G

And also re-shingle the roof, uh with the more historically appropriate cedar shake.

G

So then, which house are we talking about so the one on the left? So that that view right? There is.

G

Basically, the driveway and currently it's a stone, crush stone driveway that basically accommodates.

G

About one or one and a half cars there's a door towards the end on the left there, which.

G

Is the current rear door entry to the house so the addition that we're putting on well actually first.

G

The garage is a straight shot back and, as I was starting to mention on looking at the site plan.

G

The reason for the location for the garage was really that's the only spot on the site that would.

G

Be kind of hidden from view from the two street fronts, and it also provides that's really the only.

G

Access from the driveway, so it's it's tucked back behind the house. um It is really not that visible.

G

From uh from either street front at this location, that's not existing. That is not existing, correct.

G

So if you go to the next has another view of the garage from the backyard part of the proposal is.

G

To update there's some existing five and six foot tall fences along the property line now.

G

The plan is to replace those and that would partially screen the garage, as well as some of the.

G

Plantings and stuff that are on adjacent properties would help screen it as well.

G

And then the next few is the proposed 8 by 14 foot edition.

G

Which is a two-story addition on the east side of the house again, this is to basically provide a.

G

Mud room and a small powder room on the ground floor, as well as a bathroom on the second floor.

G

Materials in general were mimicking or matching the existing images and clapboards.

G

The plan was to provide wood windows with double hungs that are shown.

G

And then, as well as wood, doors and windows on the garage.

A

Pretty simple: who wants to ask questions or make comments on this.

A

Well, I have a question so wood windows and doors in the garage and the.

B

Even the um the overhead door, it's like a wood sectional yup.

B

The doors are a nice design. You, we often get kind of phony uh carrots.

G

These are, these are very nice. It's well! That's well designed.

I

I don't have much that I think it's very tasteful and well done and very nice scale and yes.

C

See the roof is on the garage too right. Yes, it does show in the rendering of a cedar shake roof.

A

Intend on doing the house yeah removing the skylights all of the skylights, the intent right.

G

Now to remove all the skylights there's one on the um gate street side and then four kind of on the.

G

South side of the building along the ground along the driveway, if you can get a skylight there, dan.

B

I have one more quick question, which is: um did you consider a gable roof for the edition, rather than.

B

The hips um we haven't really looked at it. I mean the original thought was really just to bring down.

G

The scale and mass by having the hip, but we could certainly look at a gable yeah. No, I mean, I think.

B

I'm guessing probably it'll. It would look too flattened if you kept that same.

B

Ridge height and made it a gable, um I'm just wondering because.

B

Obviously the house is gabled and so my hip is different, but do you have any comments.

E

Is there original driveway there now there is a crushed stone, driveway! That's about.

G

A car and a half two cars deep it pretty much ends at that door. Okay,.

F

Yeah putting the stone on it, yeah we're continuing the driveway, probably about.

B

I don't know what you say that is about like 18 feet,.

E

On the conceptual site plan, I'm not sure how it connects to the garage on the.

E

Bottom side: yes, on the bottom side, so that's coming through yep! Okay, all right um have you.

A

Got approval for this from the boa? No! That's our next step! After getting your feedback yeah, I I I.

A

I would give you feedback that I I'm full of support, certainly using historic materials and.

A

I don't have any heartburn with any massing or the size of everything. One thing I think the garage is.

A

Too small, but you know it's not my car. It won't be a suburban suburban in there. No, not at all.

A

But um it's a, I think, we're all kind of in agreement that this is a pretty good.

A

Little plan here so I'd like to ask if anybody in the public would like to speak about this plan.

D

Good evening, mr chairman, uh members of the commission, my name is david adams.

D

I live at 210 gate street. I'm the only house that isn't shown in this picture.

D

So the question I would have of the applicants is the garage is: is it at.

D

Grade with the driveway that exists now, as the driveway leaves walt and alley, it rises slightly.

D

To the back edge of the house and then the grade falls off. Is it your intention to raise the grade.

D

Or raise the level of the driveway, the point is, it has an effect on how high the garage is set.

D

And it's difficult to be certain looking at the images that you've provided. But you do.

D

Understand what I'm getting about the grade going down as you go to the garage? Okay.

D

Inside you see about 18 inches yeah of something I don't know what it is is that is that concrete.

G

um Yeah to be determined okay, when you construct the addition to the house.

D

What kind of foundation are you going to use? What would be the exposed foundation.

G

We'd be trying to match well, not match, what's there, but maybe veneer it. Okay,.

D

I guess those are those are my questions. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr chairman. um So anybody else.

A

um I would suppose that you might want to come back after you get your approvals from the voa.

G

Continuance or not, unless you need another work session, doesn't sound like you. Do you just answer.

A

Some of the questions that you've heard right- you can do that: okay, terrific! Well! Thank you very much.

A

Work session requested by eight kph, llc owner for property located at 161 deer street, wherein.

A

Permission is requested, allow the demolition of the existing structure and the new construction.

A

Of the new mixed use, building as per plans on file in the planning department, said property.

A

Is shown on assessment map 125 slot 17-3 and lies within character, district 5 in historic districts.

A

This year from 8th kph, carla goodnight jake weeder and tom bowen, the owner of.

I

161 deer street, oh and and akph, and I live at 233 vaughn street as well so.

A

What's going on, knowing that we spent a year on this planning.

A

Property, yes, yes, any numbers of work sessions. What have you got? Well, let's.

D

With deep regret, the design that was approved by the planning board and still has approval.

F

Until july, 11th um was designed to be about four or three feet below the water table.

I

And can't be built, so we are here to fix that and remaster the building.

K

Yeah they they can, like others, they've convinced themselves. This close to the.

I

Pond that they could dig below the water line and pump and that's not realistic for this site, so.

A

I think some buildings do that now parking garage, yeah they're, not quite this close to the water, but.

H

All right, carla, all right uh so.

H

Looking at, uh I guess, what I would say is.

H

We have done some extensive uh sight and surroundings.

H

Work which I who doesn't I'm not sure if we want to present right now, just go quickly.

I

I think you're familiar with what's there, this is more documentation for the who's it who, at home.

B

Right, that's great all right, uh so our inspiration for this site is largely based on the fact that.

H

The actual train station in portsmouth is low. It was located right on this site. It.

H

Actually, physically was on our site, so one of the things that we did was look up and down the rail.

H

Corridor looking for historic examples and have documented them extensively in the application.

H

Not the least of which is listed on 2.0 and there's just a wealth of images here to inform.

H

The design of the building, whether it be an interpretation, that's a little bit more modern or.

H

Whether it be something more traditional, I think we're willing to go in either direction at this.

H

Point but you most of you have seen many of these images and we'll be bringing them back in our.

H

Next work session as precedent, so given the late hour I'll skim through them a little bit quicker.

H

And we'll look at some key pieces in in the next work session. If you look at 3.0.

H

You'll notice, the the north end history and the north end vision plan showing some of the.

H

Similar architecture- that's intended for this area, I'll flip through the zoning you can see.

H

That for reference and then obviously the site and surroundings, the existing building on 4.1.

H

The cemetery, the water that tom has spoke of and the railway intersection.

H

um There's a significant issue with the railway and the locomotive and the smoke and so forth. So.

H

We have a lot of that that we'll be talking about as we move through the project. uh Examples of.

H

Surrounding architecture on 4.4, and so now we get to 5.0, where I'd like to talk a little more about.

H

Massing slow down a little bit and talk about that sight, massing maximum height and volume is modeled.

H

In the upper left hand corner and then the upper right hand corner is just taking some of these.

H

Primary corners and cutting them back the lower left hand corner is the erode eroded radius form.

H

As an option, we could also do potentially notched corners because I know we want to talk a little.

H

Bit about how the building takes on its final form, uh one of the then moving on to 5.1, we try it.

H

We're establishing a hierarchy and then uh primary building setbacks for sidewalks garage entry.

H

And rail corridor are just eroding the volume on the site, one of the biggest uh differences between.

H

The prior approval- and what we are seeking here is the penthouse we're dropping to the penthouse.

H

Top floor reduction and then facade modulation in the form of possibly projecting balconies or.

H

Recessed balconies and then just as comparison towards a reminder of where the project left.

H

Off when you were looking at it before the previously approved in the upper right hand, corner.

H

So I think that this gives you a pretty good feel for the direction that we're thinking of going in.

H

As far as massing, so I think in very few a very short period of time. We've talked about the.

H

Architectural style we're pursuing we've talked about the context of the buildings that you're all.

H

Aware of having looked at the city in great detail, and now we have quickly run through our massing.

H

With the articulated corners facade and the penthouse established, penthouse level,.

H

As opposed to the five stories, so we've dropped a dropped, a level.

D

Was it going to be six? No, it's your penthouse is dropping a level from from the previous approval.

H

Correct right, so we have some massing to talk about and some corner treatments to talk about.

A

So, who wants to start I'll jump in with say the the idea of the eroded radius corner.

D

Provides exciting, fenestration options. Another comment to jump in is: is that.

D

One of the characteristics of this period of real uh station house.

D

Are the roofs they were almost always overly decorated, roofs, uh more shapes.

D

uh And and uh accoutrement uh little eyebrow dormers things like that common all right, you got.

D

A flat roof, but with a little bite she's got to well she's, the architect, yeah. That's the question.

F

That's correct um somebody else, reagan sure I mean I fine with the massing, although I don't know.

B

How the form that you've got here on 5.2, I'm not sure how that that actually relates I'll.

B

Be interested to see how that relates to any of the historic buildings that you were looking at in.

B

Terms of their form and shapes, and anything like that, because this to me already looks like a very.

B

Modern different building- that's not really related to any historic buildings, so.

B

But I I appreciate you doing all of that research and providing historic photos and contacts, because.

B

I do think that's important, and so um I would love to see any of those aspects or relationships.

B

Pulled up in in this in this on this site, if you're going to reference, the railroad and.

B

Stuff, I'm excited by it doesn't have to be replica. No, no, no, no, no we're not replicating anything. No.

H

No we're thinking this in inspiration, some of the shapes some of the.

H

Some of the ideas, some of the you know just forms.

K

I'm good with the mass I actually like it that you've brought it down. Well, that's that's good.

I

Okay, I've taken no objections to what I see uh these. I can never judge these things anyway, so it.

I

Could be great, it could be horrible. I don't know proceed if you're. Thank you. I know what you mean.

F

We're comforted to know what might be on the fourth corner now, so we've been.

F

Wondering what's going to be across the street right right, yeah! It's going to be good!.

F

Yeah I mean I'm I'm in favor of the eroded corner. uh Okay. I really do I like that, and it's.

A

It's something that we have also seen on the bank, building that just constructed on the.

A

Counter of hanover, so is that the big question I have no problem with the size of that building.

A

I would almost like to see what I liked about the previous incantation was kind of almost a tower.

A

At the corner, it wasn't really a tower, but.

A

It did stick up higher than the roof itself and we always thought at the board at the time. I thought.

A

That that was a good yeah. Some of us- maybe not all of us,.

F

Okay, all right vicious. Okay, so uh does anybody else get any comments? Anybody the massing is fine.

F

It looks like can't be building we've approved over the last two years, a recessed penthouse in a.

E

Square and it'd be neat to get it to look a little bit like what was there, rather than the typical.

E

Recessed penthouse and square building. Can you go one slide yep one slide which way? No, the other way.

I

One more yeah: can you do that back there, this next to the scar.

E

Surgery would be different than our flat roofs, yeah.

H

That it just I just couldn't resist putting that in frank jones uh rumor is over 100 feet high.

A

Yeah, do we build that now people are falling? Oh, you know yeah. What's going.

A

On you're ruining portsmouth and there it is okay. Anybody in the public wrong comment.

A

Please stay the same for nothing.

L

So, as you know, I'm going to be excited about elizabeth bradder, property owner 159, mcdonald's.

L

Street, I'm sorry I'm very excited about the fact that is technically coming down. One story.

L

When I heard him say that the water table is that high, I know he's putting in parking underneath.

L

So I'm wondering if how high that grade is going to make that building come up.

L

So that's always a concern for me because I'm all about less height, I like the idea of a tower.

L

I thought the tower: if you go to the pictures nick that have the train on it: the steam engine.

L

One too far, it's late one more there you go that one yeah. I thought yeah.

L

I mean there's one thing that um one of the artists in the neighborhood always says about.

L

The new buildings in portsmouth- and that is they they need a hat, and I think that's one.

L

Thing: that's lacking a lot of buildings, they're just flat flat flat and you're, going to be across.

L

The street from the pseudo train station, so I like the idea that you're going to try to go.

L

With a train station, I would like it to be more of the traditional with the arches and.

L

The design, as opposed to another modern building- technically, I don't perceive any of those lots as.

L

Being in the north end, they're actually part of the islington creek neighborhood, but that line.

L

Was drawn across the street to be able to get a parking garage so there's that issue from those.

L

Of us in the island concrete, but thank you anyway, and I look forward to seeing what comes up next.

L

So I guess then they'll have a motion for a continuance.

A

Come up with some ideas for us to look at we'll see so moved. Second, all these in favor.

F

All right, thank you for staying up everyone. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you work session.

A

Requested very thankful home support, llc owner for property located at 43 homes, court, where.

A

Permission is requested to allow the demolition of the existing home and the new construction.

A

Of a single family home of similar design, as for plans on file in the planning department,.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map. 101 is lot 14 and lies within the waterfront and historic.

A

District hello, who's here, hello, brendan mcnamara uh designer on the project and steven singler, the.

P

New owner of the 43, also of 39 um the house to the left, as you get down, which will.

P

Come to something with that later on, um we'll do it as quickly as possible. Now this is a house.

P

That finds itself caught by the principally by two things. One is the the new flood maps.

P

Which puts the house inside the ae flood zone and um if you jump to that flood map, you can see it's.

P

Actually, the flood zone actually doesn't entirely encircle the house, but it's um pretty close.

P

So what that means is, you know there was the mention, even on the other, uh for the.

P

uh Sanders house you know that's in is to reference the flood floodplain, um so the.

P

Base um flood elevation for the design purposes will become 11 feet being effectively.

P

In a simplistic way, the top of the foundation for any work- that's done on the house.

P

But it's caught in this other thing about the you know, the 50 investment rule in terms of the.

P

Property that if you you're forced to come to full co compliance if you invest 50 beyond the market,.

P

Value of the structure itself, um so there's two things so one the um addressing the flood issue is.

P

Going to cost more than that, but beyond that that once that rubicon is crossed, then the expectation.

P

Is the house becomes fully co-compliant and dimensionally? It's based around a 14 foot gable.

P

Which is problematic for a one and a half story house um the going back to the nature of the.

P

House itself, you know the tax map says that it's 1749 and yes, that's most likely the situation and.

P

That would be the core gable of the house, um but clearly the roof structure is does not date to.

P

That um you know some time, the late 1800s, and so it's it's been severely worked over um the.

P

Upshot of all this is yes, we'd like to demolish the house. I've, given uh what I would regard as a.

P

Feasibility study of what could be done to replace it. However, I think that you're going to need to.

P

Do a site visit to review it yourself to decide what is the nature and value of the existing house.

B

Can I just say is it: is that true, this 50 value thing, and how is the value in this.

B

Area of the south end so low, it's not the value of the property. It's the value of the structure.

P

And so the reference through the code is that it's they take the um as per the valuation.

P

The assessed value for the for the town and that's how you establish the few percent. Yes,.

C

Which is generally lower than right value right, it's worse! It's a rule that goes across the.

P

Board, but it's very much depends dependent upon requirements: yeah federal floods, yeah, it's fema.

D

I've run into it myself everywhere. Also, every state that adopts fema has to it comes with it. Yep.

P

But it is in the boca coast, it's in the code as well. It's just most building officials.

P

Unless they are experienced with the coastal flooding issues.

P

They're not really necessarily aware of it or do they enforce it.

P

But as soon as you're in the coastal flooding zone, then it's just red flags straight up.

D

So this is a price that you pay in general in our commission.

D

When buildings get to run down when the values of the houses drop below c level or.

D

Not so much, you know when they're no longer class a houses.

D

Then you know it happens uh and getting the structure. That's there today to pass.

D

A blower door test or something like that, just it's not going to happen or a staircase.

D

I guess if you want to own this property and live in it, get a certificate of occupancy.

D

After you've raised it out of the flood level, then you need to build a new house. The question is how.

D

Much of a jarring effect that's going to have on the neighborhood.

D

Well, no, it's not. I don't I don't. I don't know if it's that simple dave with.

C

Just the 50 rule, I think in this case you know the sight walk is going to be really important for.

C

Everybody in this particular to make sure you're comfortable with the replacement of the house, but.

C

But I I don't think I don't think it's fair. I hope not that everybody that's in the floodplain or is.

C

Subject to an increasing flood line that is going to spend 50 percent of the value assessed value of.

C

The structure is going to have to bring it up to full co-compliance. I think that is the goal not.

C

The requirement and the inspection officials have the ability, if it's non-life safety in the code, to.

C

Waive for historical significance, if you're in a district uh provisions in the code, otherwise we'll.

C

Lose the whole south end at some point, because that these are very like charleston's experience.

C

These can cost several hundred thousand dollars just to lift, and that's that's if it's wood frame.

C

If it's masonry, it can be a million dollars just to lift the structure and put a new foundation.

C

Under it do something with whatever the gap is between the the earth and the first floor.

C

So you'll quickly hit the 50 threshold. You know hopefully a long time from now, but it.

C

Might not be that long before homes in the south end are going to need to be elevated.

C

So I think we don't need. I don't know if you said it dave, but I just want to make sure there is.

C

Flexibility in the building code and how it gets applied.

C

I think fema has a lot less flexibility, but I can't imagine it doesn't apply there as well.

P

It's more likely in a situation like this, where the um you know the new flood maps they're not.

P

You know they're genuine, you know they're, but you know it's. It's definitely raised.

P

But um it's more, you can see how it affects this particular property where it doesn't so much.

P

Affect the ones that are behind it, so it's it's! It's! The special location of this particular house.

P

um And it would, it would affect the sanders. It's been flooded out. Excuse me recently or no, no, no.

P

The the the the basement is damp for sure yeah, um but, um and we don't know- I mean it'd- be great to.

P

Think that it could be raised and that it had some sort of functioning basement. I don't actually know.

P

The answer to that I mentioned that it's in the process. They did the server the field survey work.

P

You know just two weeks ago: we just don't have the results on that yet, but it's you.

P

Can see roughly where it's going so you want the first floor to be at 11 feet. No, the top of the.

P

The way the fema thing's written is that no non um resistant to flooding materials can occur below.

P

The what's the design flat elevation, which would be 11. so essentially that becomes the top of the.

P

Concrete foundation and that concrete foundation may be a number of different things. It could be.

P

Again, this is the information we don't yet have. It could be a flow-through foundation.

P

It won't be a peer foundation because it's not a velocity zone but.

P

It you know it may need to be allowed to be flood and drain on its own. So.

P

But effectively the wood structure that supports the building needs to be.

P

Above the 11 feet, that's just the way that they do exposed. Whatever is underneath the first floor.

C

Do you expect there to be if this house is replaced or lifted.

P

Existing it would have to go. The existing first floor would have to go up at least two feet from.

P

What it is now, and so how much of it's exposed today is it? Is it two feet above grade or it's.

C

I know it's not a flat site but yeah. No, it's not so it's it's. It's probably got about eight inches.

P

Of exposure on the roadside and about uh two feet: exposure on the water on the water and then it's.

C

Tapered down to that yeah, so you're gonna go from, say an average of a foot up to a foot and a half.

C

Up to three and a half right, which is lucky for us that it's not any higher, that's not too bad.

F

Right now, with that kind of at the upper end of the tolerance yeah, that's not too bad, and you.

P

Know within that we, you know the expectation as long as we can again. This is this is a.

P

Highly regulated site, you know because it's not this is just. This is the first step and the the.

P

Because it's regulated under um um city state, your dep and federal through fema, so.

C

And you're going to need variances to put it there, because it's a simple yes.

P

Yeah they've got a lot of permitting to do, but it obviously it's critical.

C

That people here see it and either agree or not to their replacement yeah. So um I think you want.

A

Comments on this is a potential plan. This is a basically you know, as I presented this this.

P

Is a feasibility study because I wanted to temper clients desires in terms of the size of the house.

P

Since there's many things that control the overall size, not just here but at the board of adjustment,.

P

So essentially, what we have before us is a functional enlargement of essentially what.

P

The house is there to allow it to be dimensionally co-compliant as well, so it goes from the main it.

P

Still has a main gable, that's in a similar location as to the one. That's there now.

P

But it goes from being 14 feet to being 18 feet and then the there's a um the t um addition off to.

P

The left hand side as you look at it from holmes court. You know that the one that's there now is 10.

P

Feet and then this one has come out to 15 feet. So essentially, that's what you have before you use a.

P

A worked over rearrangement but larger of what's there now, but it's not a gigantic.

A

Victorian structure like we've, been looking at: no, no, no there's one of those just behind us.

P

Very acceptable: what does everyone think.

I

I would have hoped this is such a formal house. It's. uh It has a quality about it. That is very.

I

Identifiable- and I would have hoped that maybe you referenced it just the twin.

I

Dormers alone, with the that strong porch uh distance, you know I don't. This seems very.

I

It's fine and everything I just think we're losing some. You know it would be nice to have some.

I

Reference to what was there happy to do that and didn't, but um because I made the choice that the.

P

Dormers that were there were additions that were done in the late 1800s, so I jumped back.

P

To the you know, the previous version of it again that was just like I didn't want to get. You know.

P

Option one two: three: you know this is like okay. This is this is a functional option, so happy to go.

P

Back with the um I, you know, that's just my first impression. I I just think it's such a strong thing.

I

Bro the problem is you got a lot of roof inside your second level. Your your roof is such a.

I

Prominent part of your space uh with that kind of approach. That's all of this okay, great um just.

D

Jump in, if you don't mind, um I think if anyone notices that this is a sort of arranged in a.

D

Story and a half sort of uh look where it isn't a full uh to the eaves edge second floor, uh keeping.

D

The level of the roof down much like the existing building itself, uh I I sort of a nod toward the.

D

Shed uh type roofs that come off it, uh the uh I I sort of also was surprised to see that you didn't.

D

Hold on to those carpenter, gothic dormers, they're they're, a quirky addition to our neighborhood.

D

I know they're cute for sure yeah, but they're there, the only heartburn I'm going to demonstrate.

D

Is the glazing toward the river? I think it's a little heavy for the scale of the building.

C

But you like the cedar roof right. I always like cedar rooves.

P

Because we're chasing the view towards the river and that's why we held the enclosed porch.

P

Arrangement so we were kind of like released from the cool house and then but I'm I'm.

B

Maybe it's just the late hour, but it makes it just. um I find this very depressing because not.

B

Your project and just the overall idea. Well, we knew this was coming yeah here. It is that that.

B

The historic homes on the water are going to need to be addressed or fixed or moved, or something.

B

um And we, I was on a committee that we looked at this several.

B

Years ago we knew it was coming, and here it is so just the fact that.

B

We've come to the point where an entire historic house has to be demolished, for this is really sad.

B

um And I don't think, there's a whole lot. You can do about it. I mean this, it is what it is.

B

And if the house stays there, it's just going to get wetter and wetter and wetter, and it's.

B

Going to be a problem, so I mean I'm, I'm not I'm not against your project, but it it.

B

I really find it hard that we're at this point now and we're facing it, and we then we're faced.

B

With the idea that of demolition, which is usually something in our historic district, that we know.

B

B

If we have to do it, um I think yeah. I would love to see a reference to what is there.

B

Now, even though these little carpenter, gothic dormers are later editions, it's what's there.

B

Now it's still is part of the history of this oh yeah. No, it's and again I was being conservative.

P

Yeah- and I totally- and I realized this- is just kind of throwing up some ideas so.

B

Yeah, so my comment is um making some reference to that. It's so wonderfully um symmetrical and.

B

You know sort of formal in that way super cute yeah, so I you know I would love to see something.

B

More along those lines referenced, but I think that in terms of your massing and your footprint.

B

For what you're proposed there, it's very appropriate um because you're not really.

B

Going too much farther than what's there now so that's cool! What nick said about 10 minutes ago.

A

Was that we need to have some kind of agreement with the building inspection department or we're.

A

Going to lose the whole stuff, then, because the reality is, is if we're lifting up all these little.

A

Two-Story colonials, like the ones we were looking at on prey street, that everyone's using as contact.

A

If we have to lift those things up, they're not going to pass muster as far as the new codes go.

B

Along and take up, 14 or 15 feet, they're just not going to make it. You know second floor.

A

Ceiling height is six foot two or six foot four or something well, and and and I'm wondering if we can.

B

Have that conversation, because I I I need to do because I have talked I've recently- talked to one.

B

Of the building inspectors, who said- and my case is very different, but um so you can get exemptions.

B

When there's structure in the way or whether or if you know making a code compliant staircase.

B

Is going to totally disrupt the house or be you know exorbitantly expensive um so.

C

I I I just want to be clear on what I think I said or what I intended to say, which is.

C

I don't think the inspection department or the building code.

C

Is going to require any of these homes to be torn down in order to be brought up to code.

C

I think, what's more likely is any of these homes, including this one I mean. Let's imagine this being.

C

The langdon house, not what it is, it would be, not full of water in five years or 10 years or 50..

C

Whoever owns it and has that asset is going to look after it and protect it.

C

Like everybody else, they'll elevate it and it'll get elevated and waivers will be granted.

C

So I don't want anyone to get the impression. The code is forcing this house to be demoed.

C

The quality of the house is questionable. That's why getting in it. I went through it, so not that.

C

I have great eyes for this, but that's what you need to do. This is a this is something.

C

That doesn't need to be demolished because it's in harm's way everything is down there. It's it's.

C

What they believe is a better solution than trying to deal with elevating. What's there and you know.

C

I don't think the inspection department, no one's, telling them from the city side, you got it or the.

C

Code that you've got to replace it because it's in harm's way, okay, but I do think that it would be.

P

Good not just for this project, but for exactly what you're saying to actually bring paul grant.

P

Into the htc and review and discuss the nature of, I do think that the that, if this house wasn't in.

P

The flood zone, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, but because it is, you know that it's.

P

It's it's under a lot of pressure um because of that, and and because of the federal requirements.

P

That he is then, therefore going to be under more pressure in terms of his judgments. So um because.

P

Then it gets fed because he becomes the sort of the unpaid servant of the dep and of fema. So.

D

Well, mr chairman, I would say we need to be better educated to make decisions about this.

D

Yeah, let's schedule a cycle, I'm wondering why we're looking if we're going to schedule a.

A

Sitewalk, could we schedule it for six o'clock? I don't want a 5 30 sight, walk where john.

A

Sits around for an hour waiting, I'm sure we can do that yeah, whatever suits you guys.

P

But yeah I mean so, you need to come and have a look at it: yeah, yeah and review the condition.

P

Of it and the nature of it is, there is no other reason to educate ourselves off the next people.

D

Yeah, exactly I mean again, this is this is an example of I mean I've not enforced myself. I.

P

Sort of deal with a flood, a flood-related thing once a year, you know so I sort of know enough to.

P

Be dangerous but I'm not like a civil engineer, who's dealing with it on a more regular basis.

P

But um it's it's a it's a problem. You know it's. It's definitely a problem because it's also it's.

P

Not just so simplistically we're talking about having said the top of the foundation above.

P

This base flood elevation, but you you, um you can't have any mechanical components within the basement.

P

That's within you're below that level. You know you can have the wood can stop there, but you.

P

Can't put a boiler down there or any other piece of mechanical equipment or have a duct going into.

P

That space, you know, there's like a hard line, is drawn through the house that nothing can be many.

C

Ways to remedy that without replacing the house. Yes, I mean right. It's all a function of money.

C

At the end of the day as to whether you retrofit what you've got, or it's not worth.

C

It when you replace it, I think you're advocating the latter, and I think that's why the site walk is.

C

Critical, absolutely yeah. I hope you know so continuance yeah wow. Are they public public.

K

Night for online.

K

So again, I'm janine mccoy. I live at 499 marcy street, which is right at the end of.

K

Holmes court, um where this house is at the other end and I share your depression.

K

And I completely understand that you know remediation has to happen. We all knew what we.

K

Were getting into you know, 30 years ago or 30 days ago, in terms of where we were buying and what we.

K

Were buying and this part of the waterfront is iconic. You know it is in all kinds of.

K

Paintings and pictures and photographs of portsmouth, and I just feel that.

K

Something much closer to what is there now is more appropriate, particularly in the historic district.

K

And so I um I welcome our new neighbors and hate to make a fuss over this, but I really know.

K

Someone mentioned all the windows on the water. Of course, that's what you want when you're there, but.

K

It is a very different appearance than what's there now and it's not a large victorian.

K

But it is definitely not um you know anything like. What's there now.

K

So that's my comment. Thank you. This is the fuss commission, so fuel feel free. You all deserve a.

K

Medal for what you do, but anyway, anyone else over there. Yes, you've been waiting all night.

F

Good night nice to meet you deborah black. I live at 24 holmes court, so I live in the greenhouse.

F

That's right in your alleyway and I would agree. I certainly understand.

F

That, if you have a home that is not going to be functional and you need to make changes.

F

um You know that that may need to happen, and I respect that, but I would I would echo janine's.

F

Comments that I would like to see something a little more consistent with with what the homes.

F

Are there that looks a little more contemporary to me, and maybe it wouldn't be often times when.

F

You see the actual drawings that are closer to you know these are just drawings. So I understand that.

L

um That would be my preference, but other thing I just have some. I just have a couple of questions.

F

Selfishly we have a view of our kitchen and bedroom window right now that looks down that.

F

Street, um where will the house sit on the existing footprint? Is it moving over? Is it going to be.

N

To show that in the same spot, it's in the same spot, so it does. The footprint doesn't change well,.

P

The footprint changes because it's been increased from 14 feet to 18 feet. If you go to the site plan.

P

Yeah yeah um it doesn't, you can see. um So that's that's the proposed um that's highlighted, but I've.

P

Left the um the dotted line, which shows where the existing is so um so the front porch is the green.

N

Is that the green, where the current front porch is yeah, it's actually blue, but no um uh that's.

P

Actually, a deck, the um the front porch if you move the cursor up a little bit yep. Oh.

P

Sorry um bit towards you, nick so the that's me yeah actually um see how long you watch the water.

P

The the existing front, porch is essentially the left-hand couch in the arrangement. There see those.

P

Family room, yeah yeah, that's where the existing front porch is okay and then the the porch that.

P

Goes across on the sanders side is in the same location. That's really here, yeah! That's now an.

P

Enclosed porch, so it's still important so is that is, does that moving or is that going to be nice.

C

So this wall is in the same plane, yeah it's in the same plane, existing yeah.

P

So the the in terms of if you're at home's, core yeah, the the the house itself is, has grown larger.

P

But the addition is to the left. You can see that that's extended about another two feet across.

P

So that's really the the significant change, although at the same time the house has been.

P

Lifted up right by you know two feet, and the other thing is that it's still.

P

A minimal second floor, so it's I think I've got six foot two at the outside walls, so that.

P

You know once you've come in, you know it's it's gone, the absolute minimum, so we can get.

P

um We can meet our six with eight, where we need to for bathrooms, etc. At the second floor level,.

P

But it's definitely taller so so I think I'm hearing no more, no more water. For my kitchen.

F

But maybe for my bedroom, but can you see, are you seeing the water through from the side or.

P

Over the top of it, no, we see um from our kitchen from our kitchen and our upstairs bedroom. We see.

F

Our windows are just there's just a little like a nice view down there, we're in the.

F

Green head yeah, it doesn't matter yeah, that's not really yeah. I don't think it's going to.

P

You know unless you're looking over the top of the existing house, which I don't think it would be.

P

Then it's not really going to affect that because it can't be the left-hand view. It's got to be the.

P

Right-Hand view as part of your preparations for the sidewalk, maybe some mistakes yeah sure to mark.

D

A couple of spots yeah that way, everybody could be a little bit more certain about what you were.

D

Saying this she's looking down here right, yeah yeah, which is this, is only a single story right.

F

So yeah, although that in itself the floor of that I get it, it will come.

C

Out because the flood yeah yeah yeah, maybe you'll, see under it, maybe that one's still.

F

Not put it on stills welcome to florida right all right. Thank you.

K

My name is brenda bouchard. I live at 33 homes, court and welcome to you. So I'm a direct, a butter.

K

And I just want to echo what janine and deb had to say, as well as what you had.

K

To say reagan, this is it's really really sad in terms of the city, and you know that we're losing.

K

Gonna start losing these things. I often go up to the bridge on newcastle avenue and look back.

K

At the neighbor at our neighborhood, which is so photographed, it's such a photographed, neighborhood.

K

And I think of it as like, a bouquet of flowers, and you know it all the diverse colors and the.

K

Beauty of the neighborhood and and this house sits right at the point- obviously.

K

Of our neighborhood, so I just wanted to say that welcome, but I do echo what everybody.

K

Has to say- and I did want to touch on one other point, and that is that I just as nick noticed.

K

At a pretty big renovation to my house- and it obviously did not need code- and I remember paul.

K

Being at my house and saying well, you know I have to pass this because otherwise your.

K

Stairs from your staircase from the second floor would go right out into the street.

K

So um I I definitely- and um there were many things in my house that wouldn't pass today's code, but.

K

You know I couldn't tear it down, so thank you all for listening. Thanks for waiting.

C

I guess we really want to continue it's right next month. Yeah, actually one thing.

P

I just thought um it wouldn't be: it wouldn't work as a site visit, but should we try and get.

P

Paul to do a review of the house before your site visit one hand to what end um to give his.

P

Assessment of what he might be willing to improve and not will you decide if you want to do that.

P

So we just do that separately and then we sort of give you a report as to what it is.

A

So would you want to come back next month or do you want to oh yeah yeah? I think we should do the.

P

Psych visit and then come back next week because I'll just again I was being conservative again.

P

Because, of course, by putting the dorms back on, it is going to possibly affect the view coming down.

P

The side, so I can just put the dormers back on and now that they've left we can say that yeah I mean.

C

I, I think, does everybody feel that way. I think two two people mentioned the gothic dormers. Does that.

C

Is that what you guys want him to do? I'd like to see you play around with it, or at least.

B

See what it looks like well, the next obvious step is to just put the gothic dormers back on.

P

And then we're less likely to get the opinion that the house is not what it is, which is.

P

Essentially, a slightly enlarged replica of: what's there, I heard a pretty strong concern.

C

Here and more from there about the contemporary windows on the back and how that picturesque, the.

C

Shoreline is right, and this will stand out- I'm not saying it's my position or yours, but it's.

A

What we've heard and it's no different than the dormers you've got to do your.

C

You know that definitely came out as a theme put some small pains.

A

No dave has a motion. Second, okay, all those in favor all right, all right.

P

C

Hey, it's not even midnight.

F