City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Land Use Committee, 10 Mar 2023

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From YouTube: 3.10.2023 Land Use Committee

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3.10.2023 Land Use Committee

A

Good morning, everyone we're gonna go ahead and get started.

A

Good morning and welcome to friday march 10th land use committee meeting, we have a lot to get.

B

Through today, there is quite a bit um first we're going to handle the report that we need to submit.

B

To the city council, I'm going to go over that and have comments from the committee members. Then, if.

B

There's people with the public that want to speak specifically to that portion of our meeting I'll.

B

Let them speak so they can leave if they want and then we're going to start. The second half.

B

Of our meeting, which will be going over all of the housing trends, reviewing all the staff report.

B

Nick's got a presentation for us and um looking for all of the starting, the incentive work so.

B

With that we will get going, um I'm sure most of you had a chance to look over the report that.

B

um Mostly I put together, there's 195 city-owned properties that I was able to pull together and.

B

Find and review, and then I went through each of them just with the lens of is it wetlands.

B

Or wetland buffer, and how big is it and does it have outside a wetland buffer access from a.

B

Street, so that was the first cut through the 195 properties and I highlighted in green the ones.

B

That I thought for one reason or another, might be possibly buildable. I then asked staff to go.

B

Through and give me feedback on those specific properties, which is um then the when we restart.

B

The sort of larger thicker lined ones and then staff adds in some of those were conservation.

C

Restrictions based off of either the funds of how they bought the property, or it has too much a well.

C

Radius, it takes up too much of it. There's major utility, easements or whatnot through it, so they.

B

Went through and also narrowed it down to one two, three, four: five: six, seven properties that.

B

Becomes the final proposed seven properties that then I added in some maps and stuff for people.

C

To be able to see what we were looking at, so that's the overview of the project.

C

um And I'm just wondering committee members have any specific questions or other properties that.

C

Maybe I missed or looked at and discounted or any input whatsoever. um I feel like that list was very.

C

Big, um it was a big one, yeah and the notes from sap, I think, really show the limited amount. So I.

C

Think that's kind of my only notes. No I'll just add thank you for putting all that together. I.

C

Think this is a very comprehensive list of all the city properties that are owned by the city and all.

C

The potential properties we have right because I think one of the things we have to do then from.

C

Here is make a recommendation to the city council it'll, be up to the city council to then say I'll.

C

They'll get the whole report just like you guys are looking at and whether or not the properties.

C

That we are proposing to be then further looked at, so what we mean by further looked at is they'll.

C

Have to possibly have staff or consultants go boots on the ground and go actually look and see.

D

Where those wetland buffers exist, how much actual buildable land what else might be existing on the.

D

Property, whether or not something's changed so at this point, this has just been a look.

D

You know basically on internet and basically on records that the city has about these properties.

B

Any other ideas or comments the wetlands in the city, gis, I assume that's a broad cut. Wetlands.

B

It's not a gradation of prime wetlands to less functioning wetlands. That's right! Well that so.

B

I guess to be more detailed. The the city wide wetland map is broad brush. It's not done on the.

B

Ground delineation, but the prime wetlands were delineated or well field. Every one was field.

C

Reviewed not necessarily a formal donations, so they're a little more accurate than the city-wide.

C

Wetland and then the other note is we just got a grant to update that city-wide wetland map so.

B

It'll be improved over, you know, it's been more than 10 years since we've updated it. So that's.

E

Coming probably in the next be done in the next year, is it are there any of these uh wetlands or.

F

Sites with wetlands near them, which have buffers pertinent to the wetlands that might possibly.

F

There might be more buildable land that we think is available based on a more definitive wetlands.

F

Mapping, I think that's what we need to look at and some of the larger lots that I put.

F

There's just there is a buildable section and there's just no accessibility without going.

F

Through a wetland right, there's no buildable area, that's near a road right! It's like all wetlands.

F

In the buildable areas out in the middle of it, so that happened in a couple of the larger lots. So.

F

Unless we want to build a giant bridge that goes over the wetlands to get to the buildable area,.

F

So those are things sort of long term. We could go out and take a longer look at, but I think in.

F

The short term there they would need a lot more studying before we could make a determination and.

F

You know I, when you mentioned well: radii, were any of those sites anywhere near city, water, that the.

B

Wells could possibly be replaced with city water supply. I believe they're city, wells, city, wells.

G

Okay, when I'm talking well yeah, I'm talking about city well, public water supplies all right exactly.

B

Any other input or questions other committee members.

B

Just a question: are we uh taking into consideration zoning.

H

No as a little bit, there was one lot that the staff mentioned. It's mostly industrial zoning.

H

So that was mentioned some of the staff um we have not technically they're. All municipal lots.

H

So they're not dictated by zoning, so therefore we did not do any zoning deep study at this point. No.

I

Right but I was just thinking of uh the land on banfield that wasn't allowed to be residential.

I

Because it's industrial zoned right! So that's one of the comments in there yeah yeah. So if we.

I

Turn another industrial parcel into residential. You know: how does that look right and that's.

I

And that's to make those decisions when it looks at it and take a deeper dive.

I

Into you know what direction they want to go as far as what is what it is currently zoned.

I

Or what the zoning is around, it is really what they have to look at yeah. Actually, the zoning.

I

Exemption is for governmental purposes. So if the city wanted to enter into a public-private.

I

Venture that would not be exempt from zoning, even if the city owned the property correct. So.

I

It is an issue potentially right, but I think that in the city council needs to make that.

I

Determination what they want to do, what are you referencing um they're? Actually, the what are.

I

You referencing is that a place in the ordinance there's a statute. It's a stat state statute, yeah.

B

Good morning corey good morning, we're so glad you could make it we uh decided to just to.

J

Catch you up. I was talking about the report on the city-owned properties that we're going to.

J

um You know we looked at 195, we narrowed that down by wetlands and buffers and what might be.

J

Buildable areas and then staff took that list and cut it down to what is the final proposed.

J

List to recommend a city council, and we were just going to let this committee members have.

J

Input and then once we're done any input we're going to let the public speak. If.

J

That's if this is the specific park they want to speak to and then move on to our.

J

Second part, where nick has a presentation for us all right on the agenda. Great thank.

B

You so in case you have any comments about the report that was put together. Now is your chance.

B

Anyone else have any input on this or comments.

B

If not, I will, um if members of the public want to speak to this, because there is a.

B

Lot of you and we have a really full agenda, I'm going to limit this to like two minutes.

B

Per person and uh you can have to come up and sit in one of these chairs and talk into.

B

A microphone so that it can be part of the zoom. I want me to look that. Would you just.

J

Wanted your name and address for the record good morning, peter hood at 280, south street.

J

So, on the top of this report it says 195 city-owned properties, reviewed for potential.

J

Workforce housing, development. So my question: I guess you prepared this counselor morrell.

J

You consider schools available for workhouse files, yeah, that's why they were discounted and not put.

J

The ones that are highlighted in green were the only ones that were then moved into a second.

J

Phase so my question is it's very misleading to everybody that you have 195 properties on here.

J

You included schools and cemeteries and prescott park and everything else that would be available.

J

You also included all the wetlands on here and my question is for the lay person looking at this.

J

I guess my question would be: why didn't you sort this so we we can look at this and just say this.

J

Is what was available? Because all of the all of the properties on here are not available? There.

J

Is not 195, and it's only this so when I read this it was. It was a little concerning to me that this.

J

Was really put here to mislead people because of the amount and when I read the comments for you.

J

To put a piece of property on here that is .01 or 1 is a little disturbing. That's all. I have to say.

J

But yeah um I'll just say that it says these are the city on properties that were reviewed. We're.

J

Just trying to be as transparent as possible, you know these are everything that was reviewed. This.

J

Is all the work that's been done, um we're showing you all the work that's been done. We were asked.

J

To look at everything else, property, and so that is why we listed all of them. It was it.

J

Was intended to just give you all of the feedback of everything that was reviewed to whether or not.

J

It would be possible- and we discounted everything that isn't highlighted in the small list and then.

J

Narrowed it down to this list, which is just the two pages and then narrowed it down to this list.

J

It also could have been grouped more effectively, so everybody could understand what the problems.

J

Are in the area, you can't speak actually, not the microphone. Well, just call the comment, and you.

J

And anyone else would like to come and speak.

J

uh Reubenizagiri uh colonial drive so uh as a representative of the hundreds of people who.

J

Have signed the petition for the reconsideration of the use of the sherburne school property for.

J

Workforce housing formally request a study be done, which includes input from the community.

J

And gives us the due diligence we deserve to analyze all possible.

J

Uses for the sherburn school land, not just workforce housing, which you seem dead, settle.

J

Can the committee please promise us today that you will conduct this study? It seems.

J

Like our repeated requests of this study has fallen upon deaf ears. Thank you. Anyone else.

J

Excuse me, manuel garganto, 471 kilometer drive. What's a buffer.

J

There's a hundred foot, the city has a hundred foot buffer outside wetlands. That is, is limited to be able to build in it's a hundred feet beyond.

J

Speak unless you come and speak into the microphone so that everyone can hear.

J

And state your name and address 777 middle road unit 22., then why.

J

Do they make the variances always to let people the developers go into the wetlands.

J

Page stress, 27, hancock street. My question to you is, as a committee, all of you you've present.

J

Presented hours of work, you've parsed it down into seven or eight parcels yet, and this is to go to.

J

The city council, yet you are sitting here with all these people here and you have not verbally.

J

Stated your suggestion as to one two three or four you will be giving, I am sure, a recommendation to.

J

The city council from the land use committee, but you do not give it publicly here this morning.

J

And I feel that that's a disservice to the residents.

J

To the people that are invested in their own property that are scared to death of what's coming.

J

And I think you owe it to these people this morning to provide the recommendation that.

J

Will go to the city council here now this morning before you present it. Thank you.

J

J

Good morning liza hewitt 726 middle road. I guess I'm a little confused about the process of this.

B

Meeting, um I have some things to say, but I'm not sure that they belong here and I don't know that.

K

The others sitting here know when they're supposed to speak. Typically at this meeting there is one.

K

Public comment and one public comment: only it comes at the end after you've discussed everything.

K

um If I would like to speak specifics on these properties, do I speak now or do I speak later.

K

And what? What is the public comment at the end going to be on? Because this is out of.

K

Your process, so I'm not understanding yep. We I split this up specifically, as I announced, because.

K

It was sort of two different things completely different things we're talking about. First, it's.

K

The recommendation to the city council regarding the request that they made of us second, we have.

K

Audit reports and reviewing incentives and trends that report that the staff put together regarding.

K

The incentives on the zoning so because that's a completely separate topic, I decided there were.

K

So many people here that wanted to talk about this- I didn't want them to have to wait through.

K

All of that to speak about this, so that's why I decided to add in another public comment, so.

K

Anyone wishing to speak to the properties that you've put forth or the sherburne.

K

School or anything else should speak right now, correct. Okay, then I'll speak right now. Thank you.

K

um 2015 master plan states that less than one percent of all the portsmouth land, both.

K

Public and private that is buildable has not been built on yet due to wetlands, or you know,.

K

That has not been built, the rest is all wet or has problems. That's about 100, acres of public.

K

In private um there's, nothing left there's nothing left and I guess my question is.

K

You know nobody's going to tell you that affordable housing isn't necessarily. We.

K

Need it, we need it in portsmouth, and I think that everybody in this room would agree, and I.

K

Think that they've stated that. However, I heard at the um at the discussion on the cip that we.

K

Need a new police station. I heard at the city council meeting on monday that we need an ice.

K

Rink that we need more fields, um so my question is: you've, got six parcels or whatever you have.

K

And you've got a list of needs and now we're looking we're kind of jumping this ahead and.

K

Saying, let's give land to pha to build affordable housing? But what happens when there is no more.

K

Land and the city, all of the city residents, still needs services, and things like that that are going.

K

To need to be used for these properties, it feels to me, like you're kind of putting the cart before.

K

The horse here, you're, jumping onto something that looks good politically you've all made promises.

K

You on the city council have made a promise that you're going to find affordable housing.

K

In portsmouth and I'm concerned that you're not looking at this long range and that you're not.

K

Thinking it through and that you're not using a process by which to think this through finite.

K

Amount of property very, very little and where that's located is going to dictate. Where you can.

K

Put fields and where you can put in ice rink, you know I question everybody's jumped on community.

K

Campus at what point are you going to talk to the residents about what is usable at community campus.

K

You bought a property for 10 million dollars and the majority of that property. My understanding is.

K

Is wet, and so you have a building on community campus. You have a parking lot that you need for.

K

The building on community campus and you have no other land. My understanding is on community campus.

K

To build so, while these folks sat in a meeting and talked about can't you put affordable housing.

K

Nobody from the city, council or from the city came forth and said: we can't build it out there because.

K

There is nothing, that's not wet the ice rink on monday night, they all stood up and said we can put.

K

This at community campus, nobody said: no, you can't. You need to be honest with people, because they're.

K

Making assumptions based on what you're not saying, and I think that that's not fair, we bought.

K

A piece of property for 10 million dollars that essentially is built out just like everything else,.

K

um I'd like to know who requested this and and I've asked, but I haven't really gotten a good.

L

Well, I've gotten an answer. um You know I've heard the city council say they asked mr welch and pha.

L

To come forth and and and build housing, I heard from mr welch that the city council approached him.

L

About building housing- and I think that that's it's important to have that discussion, because.

L

That's going to dictate sort of how you approach this too. If the city council asked mr welch to.

L

Build then, yes, you should be providing land. Mr welch asked you, you know. If mr welch came to you.

L

And said I want to build, then maybe it becomes mr welch's problem to kind of find that land and.

L

On that point, I'd like to know why um you know why your properties aren't being looked at.

L

So you have a salute you probably at this point when, as I drive around town, have more property.

L

Than we have available land, so you know they're all one-story buildings. Why can't.

L

Those be repurposed because that was stated in 2015 as well master plan. Maybe it's time.

L

To start looking at repurposing some of these properties, so how might pha go about? You know.

L

Leveling, something and building something and moving people and then moving them back to to.

L

Make that land more functional than it appears to be right now, rather than taking this little bit.

L

Of land that we have left my last just last thing is um I'd like to know, and maybe it's.

L

On the website- and I haven't found it- where is the answer to the list of those questions from.

L

That sherburne meeting there was a long list generated and I think the residents were told.

L

That there'd be answers to all of those questions, because I think that those are important to have.

L

And important to use to drive your discussion about these properties you're going to run into.

L

These same questions, no matter where you look. If you look over in atlantic heights, the people that.

L

Are living in the atlantic heights are going to be asking the same questions that the people it.

L

Sure you know in pan away manner were asking so if you're going to enter into this and look at.

L

These properties- where is the list of those questions and the answers to those questions.

L

And why can't you use those questions as as a starting point to drive a conversation around.

L

What properties might be appropriate? Thank you, I'm sorry about being taking so long.

L

Anyone else like to come and speak specifically about these properties.

L

Good morning, rick beckstead 1395 islington street, I'm just going to piggyback off of what a couple.

L

Of speakers have gone and said we get one shot at this one. I've been at this a really long time.

L

Almost 10 years of my life and I dedicated to the city itself, whether being a an aware, resident or.

L

Elected city, official and I'll give you an example: we get one chance at this. A property like this to.

L

Be able to utilize something if we had to be a chance to be able to go back in time and.

L

I'm talking like four or five years, we probably wouldn't have done the senior center, where it is.

L

On court street, because we're in such desperate need for a police station- and I talked to two.

B

Chiefs that we had gone and had, which would be more valuable or more usable, to have a police.

M

Station there to be able to have access to the bypass to be able to have access to downtown. But.

M

Building that would have gone with the senior center. We purchased community campus. A few.

M

Years later now, kittery's model is an excellent model, todd who actually runs our rec department.

M

Actually was the assistant that was out there and it was a great model, a model that we could.

M

Have taken advantage of, we could have had our senior center out there with the youth just.

M

Like kittery does and utilize that I'm asking this committee and I will ask the council to.

M

Take a step back, this is being done far too early and it's rushed. You know I looked at some of the.

M

Sorry, being an elected official, I know one of the topics we talked about was community campus.

M

You know whether I'm disclosing something that I'm not supposed to say or not, but that's what we.

M

Talked about and I'll talk about two things: there are nine acres outback of community campus. That.

M

Are not probably inhabitable and limitable because there are concerns. But just like the pda that we.

M

Have out there, as far as not being livable but being usable, that nine acres could be utilized for.

M

The uh the youth wreck that was presented to you guys, as far as with the ice rink and stuff like.

M

That and four acres sits on front of community campus, which was buildable we're upgrading the.

N

Pickleball courts apparently now, but that was four acres that the council discussed about utilizing.

N

That we didn't want to put the cart before the horse. We wanted to purchase the property first.

N

And then we would have those discussions publicly, which has not happened yet greenleaf the green.

N

Leaf property, the old skateboard park: here's your chance to do a batting order. That's right! We are.

N

Getting ready to break ground on a skateboard park that property has a deed restriction, so did.

N

Our middle school so did a softball field, which is now an alumni again. History is everything and.

N

If that's what I have to bring to you and to the community, that's what I'm going to do. I've been.

N

Doing this for a very long time we're batting out of order, I don't want to see it happen again. We.

N

Need to make some right and I'll tell you what the number one would be. The atlantic heights.

N

On volkswagen to be able to go and have mr welch portsmouth housing authority already own pieces.

N

Of property out there and portsmouth does and it's the same type of housing. The the one in greenleaf.

N

Makes the same sense as well: you've got literally their properties across the street. Probably there.

N

You wouldn't have any impacts. The chairman went and said that there were three criterias had to.

N

Have a road had to have water had to have sewer? Those are the three criteria both atlantic heights.

N

One has all of those criteria: greenleaf definitely does, and you probably could get away with mr welch.

N

A five-story building over there, as opposed to a four story, has access to the bypass to be able.

N

To go to 95 for commuters to be able to go. Let's get this right. It doesn't impact a neighborhood.

N

And it does not eliminate a field, you guys just had the results on those field. Studies we've only.

N

Done one in the 40 years that I've been here in portsmouth 40 at community campus, that's.

N

The first one we might get one more in and that's going to be it please don't make broken promises.

B

To the youth athletics, they are few and far between they're dwindling. They have to go.

O

Elsewhere, outside of our community, that softball field isn't just a softball field for the girls.

P

Portsmouth little league has used that from time to time when we have to if it's open and you've.

P

Got adults that are actually using it as well, we're never going to be able to go and get those.

Q

Back make the right decision choose the right batting order. Thank you very much. Anyone else.

Q

Good morning, charlie turner from excuse me 368 greenside. I live in.

Q

um Off from sherman road, my questions to you are: is the pha prohibited from buying private land.

Q

And the other is, if we're willing to take away a girl's, softball field. Why are we not looking at.

Q

The plainsball field, the ball field on granite street and speaking to what mr beckstead just.

Q

Said that is, if you're looking to remove one field to allow for housing, then we need to ball.

Q

Fields need to be on that list. The other thing is leary field. I mean those right. There will strike.

Q

The heart of everybody in this community, that's ever gone to a game or had a son or daughter play.

B

um So don't take away the girls softball field down there, it's important to them.

O

The other thing that I find is the study was well done, and it shows me.

O

That you have a very limited amount of city-owned property. That's actually dry.

O

The inability to build on anything is a big problem, considering we are on a coat, we are.

E

A coastal city and our borders are going to change over the next 20 years or maybe less.

B

That piece of property needs to really be looked at, and I think that there's better uses for the.

O

Sherburne school site, I think, there's better uses for some of these other pieces of property.

O

um For years, I have driven into constitution ave and wondered why nobody has ever built.

O

On that piece of property, well now I know why, because the city owns it, I notice that you guys.

O

Like to use it as a place to store granite curbing- and I I was often wondering who was.

O

Responsible for the amount of trash on that the cities- actually, it looks like a dump over there.

O

um You need to clean up your property, but my point is: is that I don't believe the city needs.

O

To be worrying about giving land away for housing, there is land that can be bought and there's also.

O

Other towns, we have communities that surround us that use our city. Pha can spend money buying land.

O

In greenland newington something along those lines right, I think the city of portsmouth should hold.

O

On to our land, it is our land, it's the community's land, it's not the city councils. It is all of us.

O

The taxpayers and my last thing is zoning- is a big issue on the sherburne site, because, if.

O

We have laws that make me build a single family home on my piece of property, but the city can.

O

Build whatever they want, then I want to be able to build whatever I want on my property and you.

O

Would never allow it. Private people are held to a certain standard. I believe the city should live.

O

Up to that standard as well on zoning, thank you thank you. Anyone else want to speak regarding this.

O

Hi sean muskie. I live on sherman avenue, of course, within the sherburne school area. I more want to.

O

Talk about this board, there are 3d cities, three city, council, members on this board and craig.

O

Walsh on the sport, there are some conflicts of interest here. I don't think any board should have.

O

More than one maybe two counselors on it, craig welsh- I mean nothing, nothing against you, but you.

O

Have a conflict of interest here- your organization directly can benefit from what's determined here.

O

This appears to the public as stacking a board. There's four of the nine.

O

That have an interest in this. From what I followed in the pilot city, politics, you've all talked about.

O

Needing public housing needing workforce housing, four of the five on this board appear to be in the.

R

Pocket of doing this, it's a perception thing. There are some conflicts of interest here on this board.

R

You may not agree with me, but that's the way. It appears to a lot of people four out.

R

Of the nine seem to be in a pocket already, it just doesn't seem right. Thank you. Anyone else.

R

Hi brandy, kramer, 584 colonial drive. I just wanted you guys to just like take a look and see that.

R

There's a lot of different types of people that live in panaway manor and they really love that.

R

It's a small community and when you're thinking about evaluating space, you have to think about.

R

How people use the space, which is your job? You know I'm not, obviously, but that we like that it's.

R

A small community and that we are the affordable housing. We live in, affordable housing, so we are.

R

Very scared about how our taxes are going to change. Can our schools accommodate our children.

R

There's a lot more than just seeing if there's a wetland next to it, there's a lot more ways: people.

R

Use it are you going to put in affordable housing on this side of the hospital plus.

R

Affordable housing on this side of the hospital, when there's such limited restrictions on getting.

R

In and out of the area on this particular area speaking to the sherburne school area, so I just.

R

Want to make sure that you guys are aware that we're concerned- and I know you've heard that.

R

From a lot of people, but I think you just need to keep hearing it because it's not really sinking in.

R

That being said, I know that we need affordable housing, but the whole state does.

R

So this little space isn't going to solve the problem this year next year or 20 years from now,.

R

So, what's the best way, we can use this property. Thank you all for your time. Thank you.

R

Anyone else we should speak specifically about. I have a question on zoom. I don't know if there's.

R

Do you want to take peter or not? You want to just wait one more one. Second peter, please.

R

Sure hi, my name is eric anderson, uh 38, george's terrace. uh I just want to reinforce lisa. He was.

R

um Comments um in in it's relevant to the term the type of turnout that you can had with a meeting at.

R

Sherman, I I I've never seen any type of that type of response at any meeting on any issue.

R

um And and um just to reinforce what she said, there was a series of questions that.

R

Were could be derived out of that? You were all given a hard copy of questions relating.

R

To this subject- and I don't know how you assemble the answers to that, but I think.

B

You have some responsibility to answer those questions in some public arena.

P

um And not not that they, you know not you. You were unable to intermit that meeting and that.

P

Wasn't the purpose of that meeting, but they were presented to you in a respectable manner that you.

B

Should account for them and have some type of response to the public? That's all. I have to say.

B

Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else uh we'll take peter on zoom and then someone can get ready.

B

Yeah great thanks um just a couple quick questions, I'm sad that I wasn't able to make it there in.

B

Person um regular day jobs, I'm glad to see so many of my neighbors are able to be there.

B

Curious for the packet that seems to be reviewed there and there was a handout. Where will that be.

B

Made available so that people who weren't able to make it can see the full report, it's actually on.

B

The city website it's on the city website. Thank you. I will go ahead and take a look um just want.

B

To echo some other sentiments that seem to be early or I can only speak for myself, they're a.

B

Bothersome to me um number one, uh mr welch, being on the land use committee representing a private.

S

Entity his private interest, where his company has already invested hundreds of thousands of dollars.

S

uh In the initial assessment- and I think it was hiring of some civil engineers- was- he involved.

S

In the pdha involved in kind of cherry picking, the top four top pieces of land for development.

S

um Did they have a direct say and what city going to be extending the same uh free offer.

S

Of land is the public going to be made aware that it is the city council's intention to.

S

Give away the land at sherburne to the pha for no cost. um Secondly, I also want to make sure.

S

That uh you guys stay true to the promises that you've made for transparency. um You guys seem to.

S

Say that that there's a lot that that's your your goal is to be as transparent as possible.

S

um I think it would be great if we could see the answers to the specific questions that were asked.

S

At the neighborhood meeting, um I understand that the reporting that was there at that neighborhood.

S

Meeting was actually a private documentarian from the pha, not the city, so with a pha be delivering.

S

That footage back to the city so that they can publish that on a website so that people can see.

S

um And, moreover, I just I'm hopeful to learn more about the recommendations. I'm concerned.

S

As well that those recommendations aren't being shared today and possibly be shared in the back.

S

Room behind closed doors, um without public being able to see. Thank you guys have a lot of work to.

S

Do on transparencies, you say it's a goal of yours, so please be as transparent as you can throughout.

S

This entire process, I like to see craig walsh and the pha recuse themselves from any um any.

S

Boat or any any any kind of proposal that might go for it as they would be, the sole beneficiary.

S

Of that really so um I just there's a lot of conflict of interest that I'm very concerned about.

S

um Mainly that a private entity is is being allowed to.

S

um Really cherry pick what would be best for them to be gifted, so those are my concerns. Please be.

S

Transparent, please publish I'll, be at the city council meeting on monday to follow up for this.

S

um I'm very concerned with the actions that have taken place so far.

S

uh Thank you, councilor. Could I just ask peter to give his last name and address.

S

For the record for the minutes, thank you, oh absolutely, peter officer, 627 colonial. Thank you.

S

Next, let me know if you're going to answer something, so that's fine.

S

um I'm megan corsetti. I live on colonial drive, I'm part of the sherburne neighborhoods.

S

um I appreciate you know this excel document. I tried to look through it as much as I can.

S

um I guess one thing that I'm hoping that you guys will do as a committee is that you look at the.

S

Properties that have been sort of finalized and look at them through the same lens that sherburn's.

S

Site was looked at, I feel, like you know. I saw notes about concerns about zoning and I've already.

S

Heard some of those questions come up, so I really appreciate that because the zoning is municipal.

S

At the sherburne parcel to me, my understanding of municipal means that you know it's. It's government.

S

Use but it's community use it's for everybody, and so if we put housing there, then that area is no.

S

Longer, technically for everybody, it's going to be for the residents of that new apartment, complex.

S

um And then I also hope that you'll look at it and recognize that there is a girls ball field there. I was probably one of the first.

S

um Of the group of girls softballs that were able to be part of that softball association.

S

And play there, I looked forward to being able to watch my own daughter play there, um but she's only.

S

Six, almost so not quite there yet, so I just hope that you know if we're seeing other ball fields.

S

That I guess we look at those, but I don't really want to see any recreational facilities be taken.

S

Away from our community, because it's obvious that we just have a finite number of resources.

S

And usable land, we also don't know like we're talking and celebrating the portsmouth 400 and.

S

How far we've come in 400 years, but what about the next 400? What are we going to be leaving my kids.

S

When they're young adults, what are we going to be leaving any future generations if we develop every.

S

Little piece of land that portsmouth has then we're basically saying this is all that portsmouth.

S

Needs- and we actually don't know what portsmouth is going to need five years from now, 10 years from.

S

Now, 20 or 30 or more so I just want you to keep that in mind when we're looking at things and.

S

Then I guess just for my own knowledge and maybe the portsmouth community. You know, I think it's.

S

Important that the neighbors of any lots that are determined as potential sources, they're notified.

S

Aid that that's being considered, because I I know that there was stuff in the paper about potential.

S

For affordable housing, but I think all of my neighbors were just sort of under the assumption.

S

It would be like everything else that happened at schools where the school itself would be.

S

Converted the exterior would not change you'd be looking at maybe 17 to 20 20 new families living.

S

There I think that was something potentially that was digestible. We weren't going to be losing the.

S

Softball field and then we're kind of blindsided by the proposal, and I recognized that it was just.

S

An idea- and that's you know the pha's job to say hey. This is how we think we can use this.

S

Space- but I just hope that you know maybe we could have some discussion whether it ends up.

S

Being the sherburne school site or a different site, I just hope that those community members.

S

Are brought to that discussion early on and not how it has been feeling for us and my community.

S

So that's all. Thank you so much. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the room that would like to speak.

S

Is there anyone else on zoom, that's researching, raise your hand if you'd like to speak on zoom.

B

No hands all right. If that is the case, and there's no one else, last chance last chance um what I'd.

G

Like the committee here to just figure out is whether or not we've done enough work based off of.

G

What we have in front of us, our job, isn't to vote on these or decide on these. Our job was. We were.

B

Asked to come up with 10 potential properties that might be developable for the city. That was what we.

P

Were asked to do I've come up with one two, three, four, five, six, seven, not quite ten, but do you guys.

B

See any other ones, do you want us or do we think the staff and um this committee should do more.

G

Work on these properties, or should we now submit our list to the city council and let them figure.

G

Out what the next step is, I just like feedback of the members feeling where we should go from here.

B

I think it's a sorry to recognize that while we will submit this list to the city council.

B

The city council was just giving their rec studies need. So, while, while the start of this list was.

G

Focused on potential housing sites, I think that we will send this to the council and the council will.

G

Recognize this is that this is all we have, so I want to touch on the fact that we do hear everyone.

B

We are digesting this at a pace. We heard the first request, which was slow down. We accepted.

A

That, okay, and so we understand that there are multiple needs, and so by saying into this at.

B

The council and having the council look at this. The council has to determine, as everyone has said,.

E

Here, what the what the order of needs are, what again when this was first looked at it was you.

T

Know we know we need housing, but now we know there's requests for other things and they've.

S

Been made now public through the rec study, you know I. I stand confident in my opinion that.

S

If we were to to remove a field, I would not agree to that. Unless we're replacing a field.

T

We understand that there are, there are other needs, besides housing, but again we have to scale.

T

That, as a community I heard several times for people say you guys ran on affordable.

T

Housing absolutely and we're elected for that as a forefront. So I know that I feel a responsibility.

S

That people elected me because I said I'm going to do my darndest to bring some more affordable.

D

Housing, so I feel like sometimes that is set as a negative, well, you've read on housing so of.

D

Course, you're pushing it absolutely absolutely as someone who grew up in public housing, absolutely.

B

So I I want to make it very clear, though, that we also understand that there are other needs, so it.

B

Is it is a weighing of the balanced game? I propose a question to the neighborhood.

U

And again, this is a hypothetical question. How would you feel if we put the ice rink there.

S

And you add potentials of 500 or so teams every week in and out of that, neighborhood.

S

How would we feel if we put the sports complex there.

B

Okay, so so, but I but some of your neighbor, but some of the neighbors are shaking their.

B

Head now, so this is what I'm saying is that I I don't want this process to be criminalized.

T

As that we are pushing just one thing: we now have honed these properties, which is.

T

What one of the biggest takebacks I took from that meeting was: please put together a list of.

V

Other properties and let's go through them, and I think that this is the start of that process.

V

Okay, I think that this, when, when this gets sent back to council.

V

I know that the first discussion, I'm going to say, is: okay: now we have these other pockets of.

V

Things we know we need, we have to start weighing those and we have to weigh those, and I know it.

V

Sounds hot: I live in maple haven. I live in a very isolated community, that's identical same developer!.

V

Same time frame as as planned away, so I understand the desire to to keep that secluded feeling. I also.

V

Have to jump out onto route 1 every day and also have a major development that went in on ocean.

V

Road directly across from me, I understand, uniquely the sense of not wanting to give up that space.

V

But I also understand that we also have needs besides housing that were just touched on by.

V

Everyone- and we know that we have maybe seven lots that still need to be surveyed. You know we talk.

V

About community campus, which you know was what, and I still praise the former council for purchasing.

V

That, but I also think that we should have done better surveys, the surveys that were done there.

V

Were 15 years old, so we know that those those wetland buffers that we have here and that we.

V

Know those are probably smaller, so the potential nine buildable acres, maybe now we're only four.

V

Maybe cross over wetlands, maybe now we're only two. We have more due diligence to do, but now we have.

V

Sites that we are we're honed in on to do that diligence on so I ask everyone in the community.

B

In this room for a little bit of grace, while we get our heads around what our full community needs.

B

Are- and I completely agree with you, I constantly have said when I ran the first time when I ran.

V

This time, my mindset is what is portsmouth in 50 years. What is portsmouth is 100 years.

V

You know we tend to see that no offense anyone in this room community involvement tends to come.

V

From an older, an older generation- and I'm always looking at well, I'm going to be here for the next.

V

75 years, so so what does that? What does that mean? What does that mean for your grandchildren.

V

For our children for us who are trying to purchase homes and and figure out what our.

V

Needs are when we talk about the schools. I've already said multiple times we need to. We need.

V

To work with the school board to look at what those projections look like, because we know the.

V

Projections of our of our community that that school age, demographic are actually going down.

V

And so does that mean that in the future we're building you know we're building up one school.

V

And maybe you're moving another, I don't know, but these are. These are long-haul questions that I.

V

Think that start with analyzing deeper these these locations. So again, I just asked for the grace and.

V

I think there's something touched on that when this board was formed, it was really to look at.

V

Some zoning some possible building things like that, and I think that that was one of the things.

B

That you know we asked for representative from pha, because we knew that there was a need on that.

B

So we wanted to make sure when we're looking at zoning and adu updates and things like that.

B

That we had a full spectrum of people that could represent different areas, so that is my yes, no, no.

B

I'm sorry, I'm still new with the rules. Email me uh any other comments from the committee members do.

B

You think this is ready to move to city council, or do you feel like there's more work that we should.

B

Do uh I had made a couple of notes after I got the list and I just had a couple questions about.

B

um A couple of the lots that weren't on there- and one is the parking lot here.

W

So yeah I I know it is a parking lot and I didn't. I was trying to look for literally.

H

Land that wasn't which parking lot. Where is here, yeah yeah, it's a big. We can certainly.

V

Add that to the list, like I'm saying it, it's trying to look for things build over it or you.

K

Know it just seemed like it was so available and then uh the senior center is there nothing.

X

That can be done with that in that house. That's on site. uh There is one small house that we own right.

E

There yeah yeah, I didn't know it seems like a fairly good sized lawn. uh It's like 0.23 acres at.

B

That house well, I mean with the senior center with the senior center. So that sounds like we add those.

B

And look at those and then the other one that uh mr beckstead brought up was the skateboard park.

P

Is there a deed restriction on that or something there are deed restrictions? The part that's not.

T

Developable is in the wetlands, and the building itself is leased to.

P

Operations, thank you. I'm like it's right in front. I'm trying to think of its name operation, blessing.

B

Actually has a lease on that on that building, yeah, it's okay, all right! That was all I had.

P

I can just add something counselor that the planning department can certainly look at.

P

Can we can we please keep the the noise level down folks? Thank you. um It seems to me that this.

V

Probably isn't the end of this conversation, it's really looking at properties that hadn't really.

W

Been looked at before the vacant land- mostly, um we certainly can do more to look at these and we.

P

Can take that either from this group or from the council, but staff can go, do a little more.

P

Investigation we're going to do more wetland delineations, like I said citywide, so we'll.

P

Have more information there, so I think if it's an iterative process, that would be a good way to look.

P

At it, thank you. I think that would be very you know very helpful for us. um I think this is a good.

P

Starting list, I think the properties mentioned, I think it wouldn't hurt to add those um and just.

P

Look at everything you know, consider all options, so I guess I could certainly add these two other.

P

Properties to be looked at. Do we want staff from this committee to look at this more or do you want.

P

City council, to get a chance as a whole to look at this list, uh adding these two properties that.

P

Were just added, I would say if we send this to um staff and you we maybe if staff can highlight the.

P

Properties that will be you know, re-looked at when we look at the buffers in the wetlands, so.

P

That that will be noted, at least when presented to council, with kind of what we have again is vacant.

P

You know properties that haven't been addressed in the same way, so we'll we'll keep it for now.

P

Correct yep, all right so we'll hold it for now and at our next land use committee meeting.

P

Hopefully, we might have that okay, a little more resolution on the buffers, the current status of.

P

Them and maybe some properties that have buildings on them, that that might have other opportunities.

P

We could talk about okay, good work on that and we'll add the other two to the list. All right.

P

I think that's nice, I'd like to add to that a little bit. um I appreciate the work. That's.

P

Been done most of them that you you did and then the staff's done and refining things, but I feel.

P

I'm reminded of the old expression, you know the hurry, we do the behinder we get and I feel that.

P

um There's some perception of conflict issues, but there's also influence issues and.

P

um It seems to me that it would be a disservice to the council to give this list or even a.

P

Slightly revised, listen to council without more analysis done, and I think we got some money from.

P

The state last year, I don't know if any of that could be used to hire one of the many.

P

Very good local firms. We have to work with staff to provide a sort of an independent.

P

Technical analysis to bolster that that work, it would be inappropriate for this board. You know.

P

We have two engineers on this land use committee who happen to be playing board members. We can't do.

P

Anything because in odds are it's going to come to planning board at some point, so we're knocked out.

P

There's other issues: you know the counselors, you guys do good work, but you're, not technical people.

P

So I think it would be a great benefit and also help staff, because I know you guys have.

P

Nothing to do when you sit around playing cards all day, but you know having having.

P

Some licensed engineers and wetlands people to help you, I think, could really be a benefit.

T

Here I certainly can talk to the city manager to see if there is some money to hire. Somebody.

P

To help staff evaluate these and come back to us what we usually do in the engineering world.

P

We do strengths, weakness, opportunities and threat analysis, and this first cut is a great first cut.

P

But- and I understand the list was a list of all city properties, so you know the fact that you've.

P

Cut it down to seven is great, but there might have been there might be the one of your comments.

P

Occurred to me, as I was walking up here this morning in the upper parking lot well, could that.

P

Be used, what are the ramifications of taking away those parking spaces and putting a building there.

P

I don't know you know, but that's free, that's sort of thing that can be figured out and sending it.

P

As a political football back to council without having some technical basis, I think you guys are.

P

Asking for trouble, I'm not running for anything and I don't tend to run for anything. That's your.

P

Job, not mine, but uh I think you should make your decisions get the technical issues settled. First,.

P

Then you can move into public policy, we're not at public policy, yet you know making decisions.

P

About which of these parcels to use after you've got a good basis of what upon which to make that.

P

Decision or decisions is where I think you should be. So that's my that's my thought there we go then.

P

uh If everyone's in agreement, we will, I will talk to the city manager to see whether or not.

P

There's money to get an engineer to help the staff uh to take a deeper dive into the list.

P

So moved that was a motion, emotions or both. I just make everyone in agreement. If we have any issues.

P

All right, so we will continue to look at this and um look at it with staff and the engineers, and we.

P

Will move on from there and eventually get it back to the city council? Thank you. Everyone. Thank you.

P

Thank you very much. You guys have to stay if you didn't want to it'd be great if you stayed yeah.

P

Well, we'll just take a two minutes. Folks believe that.

P

Aren't don't want to stay for the rest of our riveting meeting that we have.

P

All right nick, I believe you are going to start us out with the review of the staff.

P

Audit report of housing trends for the past five to ten years.

P

It's a lot of stuff on that screen. um Are you sharing it all right? I am. You should be able to do.

P

How do I get rid of all that stuff up and view you should really do full screen up in the top left.

P

Yeah up here no overlap and then full screen mode, almost all the way down it. Yeah sorry.

P

That's right, if you want to get rid of, and how do I get rid of this thing, so the little line.

P

See the little line on the top no go up to the box. I want to get rid of all this.

P

Fresh out of grad school seriously, we can, we, can you just do a little.

P

Line at the top- and usually it wasn't that easy so two weeks ago, planner says.

P

All right, that's a bumbling start so good morning, everybody that was that was a spirited start to.

P

Our our monthly meeting uh but a good one, and I think what I'm going to try and do here with.

P

Howard as well and peter is sort of shift gears and get back to um sort of what rick was just.

P

Saying a better understanding of baseline conditions in the state of sort of housing.

P

In the city what's been going on in the last five to ten years, I I think you're likely to find some.

P

Of this information presented this morning is not intuitive. It's not well understood.

P

We have difficulty even in the planning department, tracking this data and uh it's taken a fair bit of.

P

Effort to sort of normalize multiple data sets to come up with some numbers of. What's actually.

P

Happening in the housing market in portsmouth in the last particularly eight years of data.

P

That we've collected in full disclaimer, I think, I'm reasonably comfortable. This is 98 95 to 98.

P

Percent all inclusive of the housing units that have been established in the last eight years.

P

There's probably many single-family uh single lot developments that might need to get added.

P

But this should capture pretty much what's been filed, approved under construction under appeal.

P

Or completed in the last eight years, and I think I think again, if you're like me, you'll find it.

P

Illuminating as we embark on this next phase of looking at regulatory changes outside the adu that.

P

We just finished uh it, it's going to be a little surprising. It was again to me what the numbers say.

P

And what we're looking at for the next few years in terms of housing, supply and new construction, so.

P

We've broken this into three pieces: uh I'm gonna do the housing trends at the front here and then.

P

I think it'll make sense, given there's about a dozen slides to stop take questions before.

P

Launching into the zoning incentives, which is again another 10 slides talking about how our.

P

Regulatory uh controls right now encourage, through the innovative land use statutes, workforce housing.

P

And then the third piece to this presentation is the general framework were working under through.

P

The housing navigator position, which is howard's position in the planning department, how we're.

P

Going to address you know, reframing or calibrating the housing needs of portsmouth on the backs of.

P

Some other studies that have been done in the past year and the data that we've collected sort of.

P

Our audit, this is kind of an audit of where we are and where we might be going uh and then I think in.

P

Particular it's going to lay up the need to really look at the regulations uh in terms of being more.

P

Effective so hopefully I can figure out how to advance this. uh The arrow doesn't seem to work.

P

I click it on the screen with that mouse all right there we go. Thank you peter, so not much changed.

P

uh So the first section is the housing trends, so just at sort of 50 000 feet. I thought it.

P

Was important to look at uh where we are now what what's the population of portsmouth in comparison.

P

To the region, the rockingham county uh just look at some of the the basic housing data. That's out.

P

There that that represents at least the last five years coming up to 2020 so 2016 to 2020.

P

This is pulled right out of the rkg study that I think the housing authority uh commissioned.

Y

Last year, but portsmouth about 22 000 people, uh you know we're seven percent of the county.

Y

In terms of households, we've got almost, you know: ten thousand seven hundred households, it's nine.

Y

Percent of the county, uh we're we're growing uh from a population standpoint again 2016 to 2020.

Y

Don't forget that because a lot of my data goes to 2022. and from the from the city itself, this.

P

Is not city data other than whatever reporting went into the state to generate these numbers.

P

And I would just say uh from my perspective, a lot of the state data on housing is not particularly.

P

Robust, uh I I've seen a lot of um a lot of weaknesses in the reporting of new building.

P

Permits and new housing starts that can often skew what's really going on in the community.

P

We can talk more about that, maybe towards the end of the presentation, but we do have smaller.

Y

Household sizes than than the region at 2.5 in the region and 2.1, it's not a it- is a significant.

P

Difference but anyway we have a younger median age. You know, I think, there's a there's a.

P

There's a tendency for young professionals to move here as well as retirees and they're going to work.

P

The other direction on the age there's probably far more younger people moving here than the older.

P

Retirees because that number is only 41 and a half years compared to 47 in the county. Obviously we.

P

Have very high land and property values. Houses are are typically nearly double that the value to the.

P

Incomes of the people in the community, that's the value of the house to the income of the.

P

Of the household to the average income in the community, we're nearly double that to the county.

P

The median home value, I believe, that's going to be all for sale units, so that includes condominiums.

P

And single-family homes, so if you're trying to buy a single family home, I think today's paper uh had.

P

A little clip I looked at on the way in you know the to buy a single family house uh in portsmouth.

P

Is considerably higher than 456 000, so this is going to take condominiums and and small units.

P

And average that number out, but you know, we've got somewhere between 35 and 50 percent higher.

Y

Average uh housing costs than the the county, the rents- you know, I'm not sure, I'm buying this, but.

Y

The rents look fairly comparable. I don't know why. Maybe craig can respond to that later. If it's of.

P

Interest to anybody in particular, you know it's not surprising, given that portsmouth is an urban.

P

Community we're about 50 50 on owner occupant, owner occupied units to rental units, which is.

P

Considerably lower than than the region, but it kind of makes sense when you hop in your car.

P

And drive around rockingham county there's far more single-family detached structures.

P

In other communities than an urban market like portsmouth and we've got interestingly, I don't.

P

Know what the county number is, but subsidized housing units are presumably in this report.

P

From rkg units that have uh regulatory controls on either the rental or the sale of the unit.

P

That keep them so-called subsidized or affordable, and we have almost 1300 units, which is 12 percent.

P

Of our total housing stock, which which was bigger than I would have imagined, not knowing this data.

P

Before I looked at the table uh importantly, however, I think in a market like portsmouth that.

P

12 is increasingly reflecting what's affordable in the city, and most of the 88 percent is.

P

Increasingly, moving away from affordability that would be represented in the subsidized housing, the.

P

More portsmouth sort of gentrifies and increases in value and attractiveness to outside uh buyers.

P

The more that number is going to be critical in representing what we've got for affordable housing.

P

As a baseline, single-family housing units were again 51 percent. Those are single-family housing.

P

Units, I believe, including sorry, that that number uh is likely, including some condominiums, but I'd.

P

Have to it that came right out of the rkg study, so maybe craig can answer that. I don't think.

P

It's that relevant, what's what's more interesting here, is the data that we've got in the planning.

P

Department, which is what's been going on in the last eight years- and I just want to quickly jump.

P

Through a few slides about well how many housing units you know we're all recognizing there are.

P

Deep housing needs in portsmouth, in particular the workforce, housing and affordable housing. But how.

P

Many units have been filed in the last eight years. What's the status of those units between pending.

P

Approval under construction under appeal, or just waiting to start construction and what type of.

P

Housing are we building? Where are we building it, and you know I'm using loosely this affordable.

P

Housing notion of going beyond just workforce housing and looking at what the portsmouth.

P

Housing authority has done as well as adus as well as potentially micro apartments, as as more.

P

Affordable housing options, so this is interesting looking at the last eight years of just permits.

B

That have been filed with the city for new housing units and you can see. There's there's.

P

There's there's a lot of consistency, but there are a couple of years there where there were.

P

Considerably more applications filed or more housing units requested whether there are more.

P

Applications or not it's another thing, but you go from sort of an average there of 150 units.

P

A year to 400 in 2016 and 664 in 2018, so that that's obviously uh going to take time to move.

P

Through the system most of this housing, we presume will be built, and it's a question of when and it.

P

Typically, will take two to four, sometimes even five years between when you file and when you.

P

Get an occupancy permit, depending on again your situation as a as a builder, so there's a big lag.

P

So we, I think, you're going to see here well, we've got 254 units that are in that total. That's 1810.

P

New housing units that have been submitted for uh approval in the last eight years- that's a lot. Yes,.

P

Can you just clarify what exactly you mean by filed because I requested they filed an.

P

Application to create 1810 new housing units- okay, so that's when it lands in the planning.

P

Department lands in a board. It's going to a border commission for okay, okay, a lot of those 664 didn't.

P

Hit the planning board for a year or two: what's 664., oh, is it 2018 664., I'm just thinking back in.

P

My mind that some of those probably didn't hit the planning board until 2020 that ish no, I would say.

P

That everything is going to hit all boards within 12 months. You'd never have anything bump. Two.

P

Years forward, it's the construction and the the occupancy permit. That's taking the three to five.

P

Years before, they're actually built and occupied okay, okay, so then they're on the market and then.

P

They're affecting the supply they're affecting pricing they're affecting you know, addressing.

P

Affordable housing needs or middle market needs right. Not, my guess is weston yards was 2018.

P

I'm just thinking back, I know some of the big ones were during the pandemic and on zoom and.

P

So that's why I'm just thinking back like yeah, yeah yeah, I'm thinking of uh the bartlett 105.

P

So we've got all those, so you know yeah nick, are these all market rate, but uh no the no, the.

P

uh Housing authorities in there I'll get you there you're getting there. Okay, but the non-market rate.

P

Are less than 10 of what's here by far um in fact, the portsmouth housing authority project in court.

P

Street is only four percent of the of the supply we're talking, so 1810 units have come in and.

P

Requested permits over this eight years to build new housing units that don't currently exist and.

P

None of them have demolition of housing units uh included in their proposal, so there's no net loss.

P

So, yes, we have these spikes and uh corey's right in 2018. Somebody like the west end yards.

P

Might start with the boa and not make it to the planning board until 19., the bigger and the more.

P

Complicated the project, the longer the permitting typically takes, but none of them typically take.

P

More than 18 months from front to back, sometimes two years, but that's the rarity. So most of these.

P

uh Projects that you see the 664 they're going to be through all the boards and commissions by the.

P

Year by 2019 for the most part, unless they filed in december yeah yeah. That makes sense and as I.

P

Think back especially 105 that that conceptual came like way way ahead of time so uh yeah this.

P

Makes sense? Okay right, that's a good point too. Some some of them will be two years if they're.

P

Doing preliminary conceptual design review go to the htc, go to the boa and the planning.

P

Board but again that's it's not the norm to be that long, but there's a there's, a substantial.

P

Lag well, look at the second bullet. We've got 1137 uh approved housing units that have not.

P

Been built that are that have been through this process, that's a amazing backlog, we're averaging.

P

Less than 100 units going on the market in new construction a year over the eight years and.

P

There's almost uh you know it's over 1100 that are going to be coming on the market in the next.

P

Four to five years, as these things move forward, the next slide will sort of get into the status.

P

Maybe make it clearer, so here's I think it's 1810. I apologize at the top that this will be.

P

uh Continuously, massaged as I go through, the data sets, but out of the 1810 624 have been completed.

P

Over the eight years, so yeah there's probably some single families out there, so that number might be.

P

650. even 675 for total new housing units, but 624 have been captured in this analysis as completed.

P

Well, that's only 78 units a year over eight years of new housing construction uh in the city, we've.

P

Got 600 the same amount essentially currently right now under construction, all over the city and.

P

Most people don't realize that, because they live in a particular neighborhood and don't see a lot.

P

Of this development on lafayette in the gateway downtown north end, there's as much development.

P

Under construction now, as has been occupied in the previous eight years- and there are 254 units that.

P

Are currently under appeal and three projects they've all been approved, but they're under.

P

Appeal, and should they prevail in the appeal they would, they would proceed to construction.

P

They don't need to come back for more permitting. There are 271 units that have been through the.

P

Process and through the appeal period, they're not under appeal, so there's another nearly.

P

300 units to go with the 600 there's 900 units so we're building up to the 1100 and 37 units.

P

63 percent there's a massive backlog uh which is going to really affect the supply of.

P

New housing, whether it moves the needle on pricing, is another thing. It may not.

P

But it will be a substantial difference in the I'm I'm surmising from the data.

P

There's going to be a significant difference in the housing stock, that's on the market for.

P

For buyers with this data and we've got this backed up backlog of approved projects.

P

Any approved and constructed adus in these, yes- and there are only 13 adus that have an.

P

Occupancy permit, there were 37 that got filed and I cannot remember the the delta between the.

P

Two, some of them have left and didn't finish or won't build, but the adus are not a significant.

P

Number in in this 1800, um so let's look at the type of housing these 1800 units represent.

P

Not surprisingly, for probably most people in the room, but.

P

What do we got? 85 percent of them are medium to high density, multi-family.

P

Projects, whether it's the housing authority, 105 bartlett, everything in the north end.

P

The gateway, district's, cinemagic, viridian westerly all of those are either medium or.

P

High density multi-family, they're, typically 10 to 10 to 25 to 30 even 40 units per acre.

P

So um that's where we're that's, where most of the housing growth in the city is occurring to.

P

Me, that's that's good news. If you're going to grow uh and and sort of back to some public comments.

P

About the scarcity of of land that that is true, but portsmouth's opportunities for growth and.

P

Development are not greenfield developments like beverly hill, road and banfield. It's redevelopment.

P

Of existing property, that's already been developed with either parking lots or buildings that are.

P

Single story and need to be replaced. Think of the parade building on the in the north end as.

P

A classic example where there was there was no uh greenfield land, undeveloped, land lost.

P

In approving the portwalk project that created several hundred housing units and the commercial.

P

On the ground floor, same thing's, going to happen on russell they've, got 88 units of housing, a hotel.

P

And an office building all on a paid parking lot, it'll actually be greener when it's done than when.

P

It started so how we grow and where we grow you to me and and what it looks like those three things.

P

Are the most important aspects to charting that next 50 100 400 years? We need to grow smart and.

P

I think I think, that's not to suggest everything that's been approved here is ideal. I think there's.

P

Clearly, a lot of lessons learned for all of us in going through the permitting process and listening.

P

To people and looking at sites doing the technical review, it certainly isn't perfect, but if you were.

P

To say to somebody in my world hey: we need 1800 more units in the next 10 years. Where are you.

P

Going to put them it's going, it's going to be in a a community. That's urban! With services! That's.

P

Highly walkable, it's going to be where those services and the walkability exist, and I think.

P

For the most part, we're achieving a fairly good a degree of success with that, so the single families.

P

Here are only like 200 units, and you know there's like almost 60 of them. 56 of them are in parsons.

P

Woods next to the cemetery in the middle of nowhere uh to me that looks like 1950, I mean it's.

P

It's that that's an area where we probably need to do a better job uh to not be so land consumptive.

P

With getting 56 units just compare that to the housing authority with 63 on an acre and.

P

A quarter those guys out there are using you know: 20 30 acres, to put those same number of people.

P

Essentially, a little bit bigger units: these are the decisions we have to make as as a community, so.

P

um So again, 85 percent of the the housing is medium to high density that that's in this.

P

uh Log there are 35, I counted 35. I think it might be 37 now I did not include to.

P

2023, so the numbers are a little bit lower because we're only two months into this year.

P

So the adus haven't, haven't, you know, done a whole lot, but we're hopeful with the amendments things.

P

Are going to advance there, uh we've got more single families in the last couple of years.

P

Than we've had in the 10 before that, because of projects like parsons, wood and banfield road, the.

P

22 units- um and we don't have many two families going in, but some low density, these low density, 29.

P

Units are essentially four units or less uh in a in a traditional neighborhood, rather than downtown.

P

So, where, where are we building, um thankfully we're not building a whole lot in the rural.

P

Area we can all take solace that hey seven percent is good, but it's all about the quality and back.

P

To parsons wood is, is that is that what was that? The best use in 2022 for that volume of property.

P

I would argue it wasn't, but we can have a debate about that another day how we grow and how we use.

P

These large open spaces is really critical most of our development. Ninety percent of it is on.

P

Is is redevelopment like I said earlier: it's not greenfield development. So most of these.

P

1800 units are not going into a farm field or a forest and taking everything out to build.

P

Housing, that's the good news, the downtown the west end and the gateway represent 90.

P

Percent of the receiving area for all new housing development in the city over the last eight years.

P

So I I think I think again, that's that's positive, uh even with all its blemishes and imperfections.

P

um That we can clearly work on we're we're at least targeting we're looking in the right.

P

Spots, I think, as a community as to where we're going to grow, to address our our housing needs.

P

Traditional neighborhoods are the neighborhoods that typically were here at the turn of the last.

P

Century uh easy way to say it: you know the areas uh middle street, south street, not downtown west.

P

End everybody knows where that is the north end is in the downtown in this model. This this grouping.

P

The gateway is the highway commercial uh areas that the gateway districts sit in. So it's route.

P

One uh some of the property on woodbury at the end towards newington and, uh like the the church.

P

There on market street those are in our gateway districts, so that that's where this number comes.

P

From you can see, those three represent: 90 percent, suburban, would be the you know: post world war ii.

P

Developments, the pan away manners the colonial drive. If there's something in there that got.

P

Developed it would fit into this bucket out on sagamore as you move to the towards the wentworth.

P

If you're jimber going down towards the river, that would to me, be a rural uh uh impact. But if.

P

You're up taking the golden egg or whatever it was, and turning it into the six units. Now that.

P

Would drop in my again my buckets here into the suburban category? uh It's not perfectly clean.

P

But I think it makes general sense to do that and understand where these things are occurring.

P

um So I called this affordability, but clearly some of this is market rate housing. The adus.

P

Of which we've had 35 filed and only 13 make it to occupancy. You know: they're they're, clearly.

P

Semi-Affordable they should be, uh they should represent a price point, uh even though they're.

P

Expensive to build and either sell, or you guys can't sell the rent. um The rent should be more.

P

Affordable than not sitting in an adu micro units we've approved 21, I think everybody knows.

P

That, from the the visit to the planning board for for 238 deer street, whether that project actually.

P

Comes back for that conditional use. Permit remains to be seen, but I kept it on the list because I'm.

P

On I'm, under the impression speaking to them, they are going to come back, so I left it in here and I.

P

Left it in here not just because they're going to come back, uh hopefully, but they presented.

P

A very different uh housing type for the city and I think, a positive one that this was kind.

P

Of our beta test for both them and us to see if this would be financable and would create.

P

The benefits that have been sold in approving the project without the costs of of any externalities.

P

Of parking concerns or or what have you so, the workforce, housing units.

P

um We've only achieved 47 in this eight year period and I believe it's 27 at west end yards.

P

Two at the so-called tex-mex uh development on lafayette and then I believe, there's 17 or 18 that.

P

Are going to be put in the cinemagic uh project, so only half of these have two-thirds have been built.

P

Something like that in the workforce, housing units and I've got some slides to show. You know how that.

P

Process has been working in the incentives and then you've got the housing authority. I just put.

P

The 64, if it's 6364, I can never quite remember where you landed with the total number, but.

P

um I'm I'm guessing, you know, they're all uh affordable uh in that project and what's important.

P

Is and what's surprising to me, as I said earlier, we got 167 units here of again loosely it's hard.

P

To use these terms without defining them, because everybody has a different vision of affordability,.

P

Workforce housing, how deep is it I think all of these represent affordable housing options in.

P

A city like this any of those four buckets and I was surprised to see uh you know nearly 10 percent.

P

Of what's been approved, what's been filed for approval in the last eight years uh would fit.

P

Into this category, I thought it would have been half that myself. That's what to me. That's what's.

P

Really great about going through this exercise is testing all your assumptions about what you think.

P

Is going on in the community- and I would argue just about all of us- gets it wrong somewhere.

P

Somewhere big, so this is really fruitful, but I think if we didn't have the housing authority.

P

Doing the court street project this would be almost nothing uh what pitiful yeah. So there.

B

Are a lot of things on here? Where are we headed in respect to the data? This is maybe what the.

B

Data says to me it may say something different to you: we've got over 1300 new housing units in the.

B

Pipeline we've got four or five years supply at the rate, we're spitting out occupancy permits over.

B

The last eight years, if we didn't approve any more projects, we'd have a four or five year, constant.

B

Supply of what we're doing now at 78 units a year, so there's a lot of again a backlog of units that.

D

Are going to come on the market very soon, [music] um I think we're largely growing where we should.

D

Be where the infrastructure already exists, I think redevelopment again. This is what I take away. This.

D

May not be what you take away, but I think we're largely growing where we should be in respect to.

D

Greenfield versus brownfield or redevelopment sites the adu amendments we we all worked on.

D

For six months, I think they are going to increase the uh frequency of adus. It remains to be seen how.

V

Significant of an increase, it is because there's there's still a lot of challenges economically in.

V

Doing adus, despite what the regulations say or not about where you can do them, they're, not cheap. I.

B

Think there's significant remaining redevelopment opportunities in the gateway district, whether.

B

You're at the iheart radio site or the any of those plazas, we have a lot of parking pay.

B

Parking lots uh in the in the route one corridor in lafayette that are already in the gateway.

B

Districts and I think we're going to continue to see significant development in that corridor.

B

Like we're already witnessing since we passed the gateway districts in 2017., so what's the not so.

B

Good news to at least nick, uh you know, I think I think, downtown and then the north and west.

B

End are are going to be more challenging, given the lack of opportunity. There's been a lot of.

B

Development here in the last 10 years in the north end and uh west end that I think there's going to.

P

Be diminished opportunities to have the kind of impact that we've seen in the last 10 years. There.

P

So that's going to put more focus, I think, on the gateway districts for those same builders.

G

That do high density residential developments multi-families, you know we're going to continue to.

G

See, I think, a lack of smaller micro housing. I mean we haven't even got this one project built, but.

G

I think there's a need for that, especially for the the service and hospitality workers in portsmouth.

G

um I think you know the group housing, dormitory style same thing. uh You know, there's micro, housing.

B

And then there's there's sort of group quarters. We don't have a allowance in. I don't think so. In.

B

The zoning to do any significant group quarters housing to support the hospitality uh workers or.

D

Service workers and it's something we should probably look at other communities- have done.

V

That college towns regularly have that. um I think you know we're going to have a lack of very low.

P

And low income housing, and that that's really speaks to what the housing authority does in.

P

Diving that, deep uh in in terms of affordability, that's extremely difficult to do, given the cost.

P

Implications of providing the housing and I think, we're going to continue with the.

P

Direction we're going to have trouble providing a lower mid-range middle housing. This stuff, that's.

P

You know the workforce, housing numbers right now for a two-bedroom two-bath unit for sale.

P

Are over four hundred thousand dollars it's it's kind of obscene! How expensive.

P

Even the workforce, housing deed, restricted units are at least for someone like me.

P

um That you know when you get even in the fives and sixes for new construction. It's extremely.

P

Difficult to find that in fort smith- and I think it's going to continue to be a market.

P

Failure that we're going to have to work hard to encourage that to happen, because it's it's.

P

Not going to happen on its own, which is why we have like everyone else in affordability, problem.

P

um Near and dear to me and you're not surprised to hear it, but I put this bullet on here late.

P

Last night, I I think I think we're only going to be successful and we will be more successful in.

P

Providing new housing opportunities, if we're more sensitive to how the new projects fit into their.

P

Surrounding context- and it doesn't mean they need to look the same, but they need to be extremely.

P

Sensitive and respectful to the character of uh place in which they're proposed and the design.

P

Of the building and the design of the site, and I to my eyes, looking at a lot of the the housing.

P

In the 1810 units, much of the housing outside the historic district is severely lacking to me in.

P

Fitting in and being having its own identity, that fits into the overall character of what.

P

Portsmouth is who's here and how we feel about the community. So we've got to find ways. I think.

P

To address that, because I think that's a market failure, if we don't have design review for new.

P

Projects outside the historic district we're likely to continue to have added conflict between.

P

Neighbors in the butters, the applicant and the board members sitting in the middle trying to.

P

Fetter out how to get to yes, it'd be nicer to start at a better place than uh you know.

P

A d-minus sometimes on the design, and there are regulatory ways to get there pathways.

P

um And obviously it goes without saying: we've got high cost of construction that yeah they're.

P

Starting to go down, but they're still obscenely high what it costs to create a dwelling unit.

P

We've got high land values. We've got now rising interest rates that are definitely chilling. The.

P

Market and we've got uh all that is reducing the supply of new housing and making our incentives.

P

Even less attractive, so we can't control some of this stuff, but it we have to recognize those.

P

External market conditions are having a profound effect on our ability to to address workforce or.

P

Affordable housing, certainly outside the downtown, it doesn't increasingly work in.

P

In downtown portsmouth, so I'm gonna I'll stop there before I just put these slides up on the.

P

Incentives which are already in the in the zoning ordinance that address the gateway in the downtown.

P

Zoning districts, my immediate thought and seeing all of that data- and I don't know about anyone.

P

Else, but we need to focus on the gateway districts and making those more attractive. It seems like.

P

Maybe making places that are underutilized more better utilized, I mean I've always said, wouldn't.

P

It be nice if someone owned a strip mall out in a gateway district would combine that with housing.

P

Or something like that, so I think that might be one of the focuses that we need to look at. I.

P

Remember meeting with a former counselor perkins kwaka and she would say yeah one of their goals.

P

Was upping the gateway districts and allowing more housing there that any shopping center? Something.

P

Potentially they could go up, you know, then it could become an actual neighborhood where you.

P

You know live work play you know in those over by where fedex is and then over by, where, like.

P

The moolah's market basket but but again, that's private property right. So there's not something.

V

The city has control over, we don't, but we have control over incentivizing exactly which is what.

V

This conversation, it's called scroll repair and that's one of the things that land you regulations.

V

Can promote? Yes, you can provide the opportunity and then let private market run with it right.

V

Exactly where we're headed, I thought so conversation about incentives. You know so.

V

Where will be our focus areas, I mean I would like to make some changes to the downtown one. Just.

V

Because I think that we haven't gotten any of the workforce housing in the north end or any of those.

V

Areas so I'd like us to at least look at that and make some changes so something that doesn't get.

V

Built has a second shot at the apple has to come back. It would be nice to have those changed so.

T

um That's my thought process is, you know, look at that and try to you know the community space.

T

I know from 10 years on planning board we've never gotten most of.

T

The community space we get isn't what we had in mind when we wrote the zoning.

T

Which left over it's I'll go through those incentives in a second, you know.

T

Before I do that, or is there any more sort of discussion on the housing data and the trends.

T

um Do we know how much housing we need.

T

And how much affordable housing is a percentage of our total? Is there a goal? You know it just.

T

Seems like oh, we need more house, we need more housing, but what's realistic and what's what do we.

T

Is there kind of a I don't know a goal for how much housing portsmouth? I I've heard the number.

B

Four, just our city, not but the regional assessment just came out this past week. I.

B

Haven't gotten through all of it yet, but uh what I've heard is our number is around 350 to 400.

B

So new new, affordable or well uh so we're deficient by that amount. Roughly.

B

So, like you would say putting words in your mouth, I can't wait.

P

I think it's really important. That's an excellent question. Obviously the.

B

The question looking at where we've been where we are and where we're going right with this data.

A

So if, if some exterior entity says I'm going to answer that for you and here it is, we got.

A

To look at that methodology and make make sure it's right because again, I've seen a lot of bad.

A

Data get aggregated at the state level and then it drills itself down. It has its own limitations.

A

On how it's collected and there's definitely a need here, but whether it's whatever 364, we.

A

All need to be fair to ourselves to understand what is that number? Why is it that number and.

A

Is our data? Is this data reflected in their data because that number might be half of their data.

A

Their their output, because their numbers you know garbage in garbage out, is how this system.

A

Works- and it's really hard sometimes to get the data you need to figure out where you're.

P

Actually standing, especially if you've got a sense here with the status we got, 1800 units.

B

Okay, everybody can get that number down, but where are they in the process? And I just broke.

P

It into five categories and there's all these lags and some are appealed and it's important.

P

To wreck as you do everybody here recognize the complexity of the the factor of time here.

V

In when housing units are produced and where they arrive and what type they are, I'm hopeful this.

B

Helps at least give us pause to digest this and it will be on the web page. It's not. This wasn't.

B

Meant to be a action-oriented discussion, uh it's it's about stimulating discussion, look.

G

At the numbers and and think about them, because then we need to answer that question and and not.

G

Assume an outside party has the answer for so we don't need any nobody's saying that, but we need.

G

To make sure we have some confidence in what others are telling us we need and that their.

G

Data is actually good that generated the output. There's no doubt in my mind, we need more. We are.

G

Going to increasingly need more affordable housing because it's not going to happen itself, it never.

G

Does it's it's just the way it's it's. It's the hardest job for government anywhere is creating.

G

Affordable housing and dealing with the market failure of it not providing it on its own, so I.

G

Think in terms of whether you call it workforce or just affordable, less expensive housing.

G

We are going to need that increasingly, unless this place completely falls apart and all the.

P

Wheels fall off and we're back in 1950, which is not going to happen. uh You know when you're.

P

In an upwardly mobile context, like portsmouth, it's going to get increasingly logarithmically.

P

Difficult to achieve housing that people can afford that are not on high six digit salaries.

P

Or have assets of that level, so I think that much we know how much we need to find the right balance.

P

I don't know it yet. I feel I have I've always felt like I got to go through this exercise.

P

Before I can have a coaching conversation about any of those things, because how can you define.

P

Your needs, when you don't understand where you are and where you've come from and where you're.

P

Likely headed and this data may stop at 2022, but, as you saw, two-thirds of the housing units that.

P

Came in the preceding eight years haven't made it to market yet so we're we. We can project forward.

P

With this data, a solid five years to see, what's coming without anything new coming in the door.

P

And things new will come in the door, so if the things coming in the door tend to taper because of.

P

Interest rates or uncertainty in the markets- we've still got all this stuff out there that yeah it's.

P

Affected by interest rates and construction costs, because some of it's not under construction, yet.

P

But we we got to understand this before we can answer that. But it's an excellent question and.

P

I think we should get the data from rockingham county and figure out where they got it figure out.

P

How good it is, and if it's good, then we can draw upon it, but I'm not confident in anything. Until I.

G

See the math right, speaking of which would you have said that maybe um the historic build out.

G

Of say, 150 or so houses per year. I wonder if that's changing or has changed recently if.

G

We've got over 600 units under construction right now and assuming it doesn't take more than a year.

G

To build most units that pace is certainly a lot higher at the moment. Is that going to continue.

G

We don't know, but it may be, that that could skew some of these projections going forward. So I think.

G

We need to consider that, as we think about this- and I couldn't agree with more about the need for.

P

Design guidelines outside the downtown you know, portsmouth is a high quality town in the outlying.

G

Neighborhoods is there a better treatment, they've been getting with the regulations so.

G

Yeah we're going to talk about that at the planning board. I would just add. I think this.

B

Is great the data you guys put together and it's something that we really need to start the conversation, and so nick was talking about that and and you're oops sorry, your point about.

B

The gateway, I think, that's a good example of where we have an example of a gateway development. That's.

B

Happening with the west end, not the west end yards with the viridian and the cinemagic site.

E

You've got housing, you've got commercial and rec retail. How is that? How do we like that, and do we.

B

Want to do more of that, so that could inform our discussion about the incentives we're going to.

B

Talk about as we go forward, so I think it's all. It's really important and I think the other thing.

B

That I wanted to say was that the you know this is our our first take at this data. So it's going.

B

To be updated, it's going to be on the website, but I think we're going to put a date on it and.

B

Then, as we update it, you'll see an updated date, so you'll know that we've spent more time, howard and.

B

Nick have been spending a lot of time on this, but it's still not done and we'll continue to update.

B

It and add more information to round it out and figure out how to do that in the on the website.

B

But this is all good information. I think that we're going to be using as we go forward, yeah.

B

And I think I did send you three the link to get to the recognition. The planning commission report.

B

They spent a year doing surveys and collecting data and actually each of the regional planning.

V

Commissions across the state did it and they tried to do it in a similar way, so that there were some.

V

Similar questions in what they were going after so it could be comparable from region to region.

V

So I know I haven't had the time this week, just getting back from vacation to go through all.

V

Of it yet, but it is on my list of things to look at, I think we should put it on our list for next.

V

Meeting to you know circulate that report. We can all look at it, talk about it. It's a lot. It's an.

V

Electronic link, so I can forward you all the email that came to me. I came forward to the whole group.

V

So you can take a look at it. We can probably even put the link on our website if we wanted to right.

V

Counselor, may I just also add thank you for doing all this work. That's really.

V

Terrific- and I know it's a big body work and we're lucky to have you so interested.

V

um In this, um in the housing data and being in this business, as somebody who said a lot.

V

Recently that I think every time we come out of a public meeting, city staff is delegated uh more.

V

And more stuff to do, and, uh and that does make a difference in how we operate, and especially when.

V

You know a third of the comments are saying: you're not doing your job well enough or fast.

V

Enough or not formatting things correctly or anything like that. It's part of uh I think.

V

The fact that everybody's working hard in a good faith to do that, I think this is some.

G

Really great work out of the out of the planning department, so I wanted to say thank you on that.

P

Thank you, they wouldn't hardly agree. Thank you. Do you want to give the public an opportunity? Oh, I.

P

Had one other incentive idea before you do that we don't want to go through both sections. First.

P

If people have data questions and not incentive for zoning questions it, I would take them now and.

P

Then go to the zoning, but that's me but rick. If you, if you want to hold on incentive I've.

P

Got another possible big idea for incentives, but we can. I can wait yeah what yeah, if you.

P

Could yeah is there anyone from the public that would like to speak regarding the just the data.

P

Okay, just figured any other questions, yeah um just looking at our city, it's and it's clear. There's a.

P

Finite amount of land and places to build- and I know we've wrestled with this- on the economic.

P

Development commission, as to what's the correct balance, generally, we were looking at downtown.

P

And we never wanted to see too much residential development and no business development and I'm.

P

Just wondering if there's some kind of formula for the ideal city, um you know that has x amount of.

P

Percentage of housing so much uh office, so much retail, you know, I don't know. I've looked and I.

P

Can't find that information, I don't know if that's if it even exists or if it's even so, if you're.

P

Even able to come up with something I'll take a stab at that and that's all it is uh that's all a.

P

Lot of this is for me as a staff, I'm not an expert, I'm not a realtor, uh I'm not a financial analyst.

P

But I I think the number one caution that I would bring that I bring to my mind every time I look at.

P

Some means tested data which is likely what you're going to get for that is portsmouth is an outlier.

P

So means tested, data is going to be increasingly less valuable to portsmouth. We've got a really.

P

Unique position here really unique set of assets that people want from the atlantic seaboard rather.

P

Than just the region, so we've got this incredible draw. I I you know, I think, there's clearly a.

P

Need and importance of having a diversified economy and having bees and having commercial.

P

Or non-residential uh entities support the tax base, support the quality of life of being here.

P

But I'd be surprised if we're, if we're out of balance in any substantial way other than the.

P

Affordability of being able to either stay here and afford to stay here and pay the taxes and.

P

Pay for the services or to move here and not have a million dollars to plunk down on a condominium.

P

Or a small house, I mean there there's a house on bartlett street right now. That's a thousand fifty.

P

Two square feet for 500 000: it's 500 a square foot. So what's that uh 107 500 yeah and it's literally.

P

It would fit in the hole of this table, uh so that's what's going on in portsmouth and yeah.

P

I understand that and that's certainly a problem, but I guess I was just thinking as we think about.

P

Housing and how much housing we need, how much? How much can our city support and how much can it? How.

P

Much can we realistically expect portsmouth to have for housing. I mean you could take.

P

I mean: do you start taking over the industrial park and converting that or do you you know.

P

Convert retail over and what does that? Do you know to your mix, so I think I think that's a.

P

Really answer because every every community is unique like that, but I think it's something to.

P

Think about what you know: what's your balance of housing to businesses too,.

P

Portsmouth, of course, has a lot of the business for the region that you know you're here to work, and I.

P

Know that, on the regional side of this, because I am the representative on the rockingham planning.

P

Commission we spend a lot of time and I already have at least one representative from greenland.

P

Who wants to sit down with me and talk about what we can possibly do together? So I'm trying.

P

A great idea I'm trying to have those regional conversations, I'm trying to incentivize them.

P

To like, let's at least sit down and talk because there's something we can do it's just those are.

P

Longer much longer conversations to try to have when you're dealing with a whole nother town. But.

P

I am working to try to have those conversations, because I do think that our neighboring towns.

P

Really need to help- and I know rye has actually been doing a lot of development and bringing in a.

P

Lot of housing, which is going to help the area as well, because you know they're, a town that doesn't.

P

Probably have a whole lot of industry like we do, but we need to be able to support the workers in.

P

A nearby location, so um the conversation is happening. It's just it's a slow one and it's.

P

Hard to get everyone knocking on your door to want, but at least I had you know I put out the offer to.

P

Talk to any of the other members- and I at least had one willing to talk to me. So I think that's.

P

Pretty exciting, I'm hoping let me get there on that. On that conversation, I've worked with a lot.

P

Of big teams working on new new towns throughout the country and enhancements to existing downtowns.

P

And to answer your question: it's a it's a point in time, analysis that can be done so it it changes.

P

And evolves over time and what the analysts do, I'm not the economic guy, but I work with those people.

P

And they do void analysis and the void analysis can project what's missing in a market at a.

P

Particular point in time what land use regulations can do, because we can't we shouldn't be looking at.

P

Just 2023 we have to take the long view. Portsmouth regulations downtown already do this to a certain.

P

Degree by saying no residential on the first floor right and let the upper floors vary with the.

P

Market as the market changes over time- and there could be more flexibility there, but that's how.

P

This is addressed in a small way now the bigger issues like industrial uses and the big commercial.

P

Uses those are those are much bigger issues that need, but then back to public policy. I mentioned.

P

Earlier also so to answer your question: you can't answer it in a long-term way. You can answer it.

P

Today you can answer it for the next six months, but we should be thinking. 10, 20, 30, 40 years out.

P

Well, I probably have this philosophical discussion uh go on for hours, but right what's good and the.

P

Good news for the good news for portsmouth, unlike some other communities, that grapple with where I.

P

Think you're coming from portsmouth does not have uh either a goal or an implementation strategy of.

P

Displacing large commercial or industrial users and replacing them with housing. What.

P

Portsmouth has been doing at least for the last eight to ten years, if not longer, but it.

P

On the implementation side in the last 10 years has fast-tracked what I think economists would.

P

Argue is the highest and best use of almost all these projects, which is mixed use projects.

P

So there's commercial on the ground floor and upper floor. Whatever often residential.

P

That generates the most money in the most economic vitality for the neighborhood in the community and.

P

That's where we've been focused, and so the the in in fairness to a good question, are we gonna? Are we.

P

Going to stay in that track, or are there there's plenty of conversations that come up about putting.

P

Housing in peas, or putting housing on commerce way again, not from maybe a majority of people, but you.

P

Hear these things occasionally, that really opens up the question I think you're raising about. Do we.

P

Ain't starting or richie uh the richie property on banfield is that the right move for the community.

P

And it's a fair question uh and what's its effect on pike and everybody going to be, if we go into.

P

Those industrial areas so fair point and I think we need to keep keep that keep that on the table.

P

Do you want me to go into the inside yeah, okay, so we're at the end of hour? Two sorry, okay! So.

P

In the character districts, which is essentially the form-based zoning for downtown portsmouth and.

P

The west end, which is shown on the zoning map here with all these colors the west end being down here.

P

In the downtown north end being uh with mo the green color in there for the municipal properties,.

P

This zoning was adopted in 2014, I think, was the first iteration downtown and then 2015. We did the.

P

North end, in 2000 late 15, early 16, the west end, there are two overlay districts in those character.

P

Districts, one is called the north end incentive overlay district shown up here on the map in the.

P

North end and then the west end down here in the blue, dotted line that picks up 105, bartlett and.

P

The west end yards is actually a gateway zone property. So it's not in the west end. Zoning.

P

That's over here, so we have these two overlay districts and I would argue the way we adopted.

P

Them is the way the way they've worked uh when we created these incentive overlay districts after.

P

Doing a pretty extensive uh community outreach and input section: what's oh yeah, sorry the goal the.

P

Goal downtown, where we had most of our development opportunity was the north end. The primary goal was.

P

To secure the greenway along the north mill pond, so you could walk from market street all the way.

P

Eventually, through down to bartlett street, but again this was this was done a year and a half.

P

Later down in the west end, so the goal was to have this public walkway along the waterfront. So we did.

P

Set up an incentive that allowed a it goes, I'm going to call them a builder developer, applicant.

P

Whatever you word, you want to choose, the applicant had two choices: if they wanted a taller building.

P

Or a bigger building, meaning, let's call it fatter, you know bigger footprint. So if you wanted a.

P

Bigger footprint, where you wanted an extra story on top of your building, you had to provide either.

P

The community space, which is in uh 12 or 13, forms from wide sidewalks alleyways squares.

P

Parks, greenways there's a menu of what we call community space in the ordinance you.

P

Have to provide 20, 20 or more of your property, your land area as community space. If you want a.

P

Taller building or it's 30 percent of your land, if you want a bigger building, meaning the footprint.

B

So we've had a lot of you could, I would argue, success. uh You know people. This is.

P

A debatable point right whether we should have been prioritizing workforce, housing or.

P

Community space, but when this was adopted, the priority was community space. That's why the choice.

P

Was given to the applicant, you choose one or the other, we're not going to force you to do workforce.

P

We're not going to force you to do community space, but you got to choose one and clearly the economic.

P

Interests are significantly leaning towards community space because the developer benefits.

P

From that improved space on the value of what they're, building and clearly workforce housing.

P

Is a financial loser to the the builder they've got to subsidize the number of units that are in.

P

The building and they usually cost more to build than they do to sell so that that's a financial.

P

Disincentive to do workforce housing so when they had the choice of community space or workforce.

P

Housing big surprise: everybody chose the community space, which was somewhat by design because when we.

P

Put in the workforce housing in 2014 with the zoning, it was a very latent issue that came to.

P

The city council, probably in the second reading of the zoning, saying hey, we need we need some.

P

Affordable how housing some workforce housing? Can you guys stick something in there under.

P

The incentive that might create some because we have a need for it and all we could come up with.

P

Was something very quickly that uh established how much workforce housing needs to go in to this set.

P

Of incentive districts and clearly it didn't work to achieve any. We had one project come along at 88.

P

Maplewood 161 deer street at the corner, where wells fargo is the previous owner proposed to.

P

Do I think, uh eight only five workforce housing units they didn't build the project they've sold.

P

The project that it was just approved with 18 or something market rate units, so we have not.

P

Achieved any workforce housing units in the north end. But again I would argue because I was here and.

P

Worked on this, that was not our primary objective. With that zoning, it was to achieve the greenway.

P

Again, all as a byproduct, not of our opinions, but the public opinions that came to us through the.

P

Charrettes of the north end. That's what people wanted! So that's what the zoning delivered on and.

P

You know somewhat unfortunate and it's might as well mention it. The uh the the conceptual building.

P

Heights that were agreed upon by the public and our outside consultants that were presented in.

P

Our charette, we're actually taller, you know five-story buildings, all over the place and.

P

In order to procure the community space or in the off chance workforce housing, we actually had to.

P

Lower those heights in order to then put it back in with the incentive, because new hampshire does.

P

Not allow you to mandate either workforce housing or take someone's land uh without.

P

Compensating them for your greenway or your your wide sidewalk, so we actually took the zoning and.

P

Lowered the the baseline height only to give it back in exchange for one of those two benefits.

P

um So that's how the north and west end incentives work, I'm going to just quickly show you some.

P

Examples of what we got and you've seen them all so that what's the incentive, what's the carrot.

P

For the column, the developer, they either get an additional story in height to a taller building by.

P

One story and or a larger footprint, they need 20 percent uh community space for an added story. They.

P

Need 30 for a a footprint, that's too big, uh or they or keyword or workforce housing and they're.

P

All choosing this again because it's in their interest- and it was also set up by design to be.

P

The more important for the community when this was adopted, so we ended up. You know this hasn't been.

P

Billed 89 foundries across them in the the foundry parking garage, but that has community space in the.

P

Form of the pocket park that hasn't yet been built in front of the garage light sidewalks.

P

There's a pocket park here at 145, uh maplewood on the corner, there's wider sidewalks and then.

P

There's a public access alleyway beside that building that we have deeded rights to all.

P

These things we have deeded rights to so they're, not just hey, we'll build a park, and maybe you can.

P

Come here, maybe you don't? All of these things go to the city council for approval, so in perpetuity.

P

And I think you know 10 years from now when we see these projects get built, and you see the greenway.

P

From market street to maplewood ave, it's going to be pretty fantastic for people to get on that.

P

But we don't see it yet because there's a lot of work that needs to go into designing it permitting.

V

It and getting these projects uh also ready for construction that are along the north mill pond.

V

This is the ac hotel, so uh all these two here have no housing even in them, but they do have.

V

Community space and they achieved it through the incentive overlay. So a lot of people forget.

V

This, but there are projects outside those overlay districts that also have an incentive, and here's.

V

Two examples: the housing authority in order to get that building as tall as it is and as big as it is.

V

The footprint they needed to provide 30 percent community space and they did with the the improved.

V

Space in front between and between the feaster and and the proposed building and and the city.

V

Has easements on that, uh despite who might own it in the future, the city has a needed right.

V

To uh to use this space the same with the brick market, all those alleyways that go between the.

V

Rera and the uh the tuscan all that's community space that was improved and laid out by the the.

V

Developer and we have easements on it, why did they need that? Why did they provide it? It was because.

V

They have a building footprint here that exceeds the size that was allowed in the district. You.

V

Have to have an acre or more of land outside the overlay districts to even ask for that incentive.

Y

Okay, so that's downtown the gateway districts. We have a g1 and a g2 and.

Y

They largely are strapped on the spalding and route one with these outlying parcels, where.

Y

The community connect church, if that's what it's called uh that area here on market street.

Y

So here we are going that sagamore creek, so you're. Seeing the you know, here's the.

Y

Iheart radio, in here and down towards rye, where we've got the the cinemagic or the.

Y

Southgate plaza uh in a bunch, they call it portsmouth green. Now, what that plaza? Okay,.

Y

It shows you what I know um all right, so how does it work in the gateway districts.

Y

Simply there are three incentives that are provided in those gateway districts.

Y

You one is to get added height, one is to get a bigger footprint similar to downtown and the.

Y

Other is get a higher density, a higher number of units per acre, a bigger project on the ground. If.

Y

You take more than if you take one of these. Three you've got to provide 20 workforce housing and, if.

Y

You take uh more than one of the three you've got to do both the green space, the community space and.

Y

The workforce housing, so a good example is uh this is the cinemagic it's not built. This is, I think, 91.

Y

Units and 18 are workforce housing and they have 20 community space, so they've taken parking. There.

Y

And created a park, some pickleball courts and a dog park to meet their 20 obligation and have 18.

B

Units in there be workforce housing that one again has not started, but it's been approved and it's.

B

Likely to start barring some problem on their side next year this year, uh here's the west end yards.

B

So it kind of is in the west end, but it was put in the gateway district and I think that's because we.

B

Passed the gateway district just before we did the west end zoning, so it's 273 units. I think.

B

There's 27 workforce housing units here it is a mixed-use development and it has both community.

B

Space along hodgkin's, brook uh as well as within the site and workforce housing. This one's under.

B

Construction now at 3400 lafayette, I believe it's 50 units in a townhouse design. It it only used.

B

One in one incentive only needed community space, so so uh that's all it has no workforce housing.

B

All these projects did not use any incentives. This is the viridian out at whatever you just said,.

Y

That's now called yep, um this is the westerly, and this is jimberg's development at hannaford. In the.

Y

West end overlay district, so they they didn't use incentives. But yet, when you look at these images.

Y

These are really big buildings, so I I think, what what clearly I got a typo there, what what it tells.

P

Me is the underlying density is probably too high for the incentive to work most projects in the.

P

Gateway district do not do workforce housing! Why? Because they're making enough money? It's.

P

Big enough, without asking for another story uh and even cinemagic right, they came in and got a fifth.

P

Floor and probably the footprint's too big they've come back with a modification and taken the fifth.

P

Floor off, but they're still giving us the they made the unit sizes smaller and they're, giving.

P

Us this, the 18 workforce housing units, but I'm not even sure they still needed to because they they.

P

Actually decided to get rid of the fifth floor, probably because of market conditions, so we're.

P

Allowing a lot to happen here, sort of as of right without any carrots or sticks. So I think it's.

P

Worth evaluating as we move forward, recalibrating the incentives and the underlying density.

P

If, when I look at this, the data tells me we probably allowed too much as the baseline volume.

P

Because we can't make these six or seven stories for a whole host of reasons. Opposition from the.

P

Community, the neighborhood, but the method of construction changes as soon as you go above.

P

Five floors, you can't do the stick frame, podium, construction, the cost, it's concrete and steel. It.

P

Becomes prohibitively expensive, in fact, the ac hotel was in a district that the zoning allows.

P

A 70-foot building and a six-story building, they couldn't do it because they would have lost money.

P

Making it a story taller because they couldn't have built it the way they built it. So that's.

P

Something we didn't know when we did the code, but we learned that by getting input. So a lot of these.

P

Buildings are four and five stories we can't simply say: okay. Well, let's give you two floors.

P

To do workforce they're not going to be able to make the numbers work if they go to a six-story.

P

Building so we have to probably evaluate, in my opinion, lowering the baseline density in order to.

P

Get the workforce housing out the other side? Okay, so we! This is the last section and howard's going.

Y

To quickly uh talk about the public involvement plan moving forward and how we're going to address.

Y

The incentives, but before he does that, maybe your big idea, we can start with that right.

Y

On the incentives well, uh most of the development downtown, as we all know, has happened on parking.

Y

Lots recently, when you haven't just redeveloped and one thing that came up on the blue ribbon.

Y

Committee that I was involved with eight or ten years ago, something like that was the idea of.

Y

Not allowing private surface parking lots in the downtown isn't allowed use anymore.

Y

And that would require the city to step up to do more public parking in the form of garages.

P

But if that was coupled with an incentivized means of redeveloping parking lots, which is.

P

Sort of be a reverse a lot of the parking lots that are downtown. I understand used to.

P

Have historic buildings on them and that's one of the part of the genesis for the historic district.

P

And there are parking lots still, even though we've got russell street and even brickyard brick market.

P

And pleasant street- and you know you start ticking things off there. A lot of them are parking lots.

P

That ought to be buildings. They can't be buildings yet without public parking. So that's kind of a.

P

Big idea: goof old idea incentive, but also public parking, no private service service parking lots.

P

Too big an idea: people are just scared and deaf, it's quite a concept. It's been done, yeah.

P

um Just one thing: I've thought of is obviously to me: anyways on the planning board, the community.

P

Space downtown um is, I guess, the way I envision it is. People are coming to downtown to use that.

P

Community space, amongst other amenities and everything else, whereas out in the gateway.

P

Districts that community space is more for the residents of that particular area.

P

um And so I think one thing just to I guess myself steering more. I don't know if we should.

Y

I think we need to strengthen the community space downtown. I think we've given up a lot of.

Y

Sidewalks um so I'd like to see, you know, certainly strengthen and really kind of enforce, so to speak.

Y

The the pocket parks and all that sort of stuff and making sure that connectivity is all working.

V

And everything else, but I think out in the gateway districts. I think that is, that is where we could.

V

Potentially flip say: look, you know your community space, that's up to you kind of from a market.

V

Perspective, you know you've got to entice people to come, live at your development, so you're going.

V

To put in some you know: dog parks, pickle, you know amenities for your residents, however, as.

B

A city we care about the workforce, so that's what you got to do out here. You know we may.

B

Still want some community space, but it's it's not as critical to me, anyways as as downtown so.

X

I wonder, and I know it's uh do one it was one or the other downtown, but the gateway you can.

X

Do both, but I believe we insisted on workforce housing first, so we do incest, workforce housing.

X

First, you give us that, and you still want more, then you can give us community space, but I I know.

X

That the vision when we first started looking at the downtown and you're right, the greenway.

X

It was a big conversation. People really wanted, not just community space. They wanted green space.

X

That was, and that really didn't truly happen, and I think that's the the downfall is we called it.

X

Community space- and we you know, because you can't insist that everything be green, but I.

X

Really feel like, if I'm remembering from all the conversations and all the charrettes and.

X

All the meetings that we went to back then it was people wanted more parks, more pocket parks, more.

X

Places to hang out but um which isn't a bad idea. It's just that's not entirely what we got out of.

X

What happened- and I don't want to you- know, spend this in the community space discussion, but yeah.

X

Certainly- and I think the biggest thing it's kind of lacking is the connectivity.

X

Between, like you, have adjacent developments and they come up with their community space.

X

Plan and yeah it works, but it's not there's no connectivity between the adjacent parcels and.

X

That was one thing yeah the greenway yeah. That was the well. Can I just speak to that.

X

Because I, I think you guys are raising a really good point um that I think is.

X

Going to fall away when this stuff gets built, probably what we're lacking to avoid people.

X

Saying things like, I thought it would be more green space. We we know what our target was and.

X

Our target is what we're achieving, but we're not seeing what we're achieving, because it's.

X

Not yet built, I mean a lot of this is under appeal, a lot of it it so it can.

X

Get challenging I'm sure as a permit ranting official, let alone a member of the public.

X

To actually understand whether we're getting ripped off or we got a good deal for these.

X

Trades right- and I would argue when we're here in 10 years- and we see that greenway from market.

X

Street to maplewood and we see the boat launch, we see the debt the deck, it's all public access. It's.

X

All improved the kayaks are sitting there, it's not a heap of rubble, it doesn't look like beirut.

X

We're going to feel, and you have a deeded right to go there. I think we're going to say wow now.

X

I get it you know, and- and everybody here also gets- that we've got a multitude of owners out.

X

There- and we just can't, go out there like china and take it all and just make this thing happen.

X

We've got to use this process and land bank things like the ac. The hotel did in giving us an acre and.

X

A half at along the in the middle of that block between market and maplewood. I think what would.

X

Really help the decision makers and the public is to have that long-range plan that master plan for.

X

The types of community spaces that we're trying to achieve, knowing that it's not perfect, it's a.

X

Concept and things are going to be a little bit different as the projects develop and time passes.

X

um We're just not tasting the fruits of our our trades, because things take time to.

X

Come to fruition, but I I do think that we we have achieved a lot.

X

Should it be built in accordance with what's been approved? Well, I think you bring up a good point.

X

Because you know ultimately, the same goal is uh envisioned out in the gateway district. We have.

X

The the uh the pedestrian bike walkway in front of uh that one down there westerly the westerly.

X

That you know goes to nothing, but if that was to occur, that's 30 years yeah! Well, that's a you know.

X

Right but it is and so but yeah I you know, I guess I still don't. I don't quite go back on my comment.

X

From before, because I I think you know we, yes, we have to look 30 years up. We also have to look.

X

You know right now too, so I'm in agreement on the gateway and- and I think it it's worth giving the.

X

The uh percentages of community space that are utilized in the gateway district are.

X

Based on the urban percentages, they're too low, I mean the the 3400 lafayette.

X

Project with 50 townhouses don't do under construction right now from the green company.

X

That site, I think, is like 10 acres, large or more and most of it is wetlands or buffer uh and we're.

X

Getting it as community space, where yeah it's marginally, if at all developable, but it has, it- has.

X

Benefits to the people that aren't there yet, but if we're, if we're good at our job, we're going to.

X

Build this connectivity together, we need a master plan for all these backed lots, because there's.

X

A development next to it from 1955 that has a connection to this large, open space area and a.

X

Sewer pipe goes through it, we have an easement on the sewer pipe and you can drive on it, but.

X

There's no public access now we're going to have that, so we we can start in less than 30 years. If.

X

We're smart about it connecting and forcing these builders to not just give us a deed or a deeded.

X

Right to go there but make some improvements along the way. So there's a sign in that 1955 development.

X

And there's one in the industrial uh street on the other side and you can connect through. So I'm with.

X

You what we need to look at, whether we're getting enough community space out of the gateway projects.

X

That aren't just parking lots of buildings, but often have a lot of natural resources around and.

X

Beside them, that would be good to lock up, even if the community benefit is that they're always.

X

Going to be remain that way and we can see them yeah, I I totally agree, and that is a beautiful.

X

Seriesment back then, by the way too, but uh yeah. I almost just wonder if that's something different.

X

Than community space, because it's yeah, it's it's a bigger vision. I guess than I think what you're.

X

All saying is almost the same thing: learning from the recent past. You know you're saying maybe the.

P

Base threshold is too high of what's allowed as of right, and you know everyone is saying well.

P

We thought we're going to get this, but we were getting that you know we didn't get x, we got y so.

P

That's a refinement and yeah. You know just learn from learn from what's happening right exactly.

P

Finish the presentation and try to get through this before lunchtime.

P

So you better go fast. I usually eat late.

P

We have a business, I'm ignoring at the moment, so well. um What was spoken about in the first meeting.

P

On the land use committee that I attended uh last month was was conceptual, and so what we're doing.

P

With with what I'm presenting here is talking a little bit uh with a little bit more clarity.

P

Of what we're going to be doing to engage the the public and what I mean by engage the the.

P

The public, the public involvement plan is not necessarily going to be dwelling down specific.

P

To seven sites, it's going to be talking about uh the housing uh and as my role as a housing.

P

Navigator, uh what was spoken about by nick is how, where and what's it going to look like.

P

So with that uh programming process, what I am referring to here is there's already.

P

Some framework that's been established that we're going to build upon there's been previous efforts.

P

um The city of portsmouth did a community engagement report that was completed last.

P

Year, we're going to be using that uh as some basis and as my role in grant based.

P

New hampshire listens, the plan new hampshire and the unh housing academy, which I've been.

P

Participating in uh and nick has as well they've come up with certain programming and and means.

P

And methods to how to go out and engage the public we'll be doing that as well. But, of course, we'll be.

P

Taking those and customizing them uh specific to what occurs in portsmouth, it's a unique community.

P

We're going to make sure what we do is meets that, but, as I spoke about we, we talked a little.

P

Bit about concept last now we're talking a little bit more finite ideas. What I spoke.

P

About last is the difference between outreach and engagement, so I'll be talking first about outreach.

P

And if you recall from our conversation during the last meeting, we came up with a list of who.

P

We're going to speak to and that had to do with real estate that had to do with bankers and one.

P

Way to think about that outreach is we're going to go out and we're going to talk to people that are.

P

Informative about housing, not necessarily that the experts in housing, so those that can inform what.

P

Housing could and could not occur how it would occur again having to do with banks. Another part.

P

Of the informative I'll speak to some of the data that that nick spoke about earlier on, there's 37.

P

Adu units that were applied for the 35 that we started, seeing at the end, takes into consideration.

P

That there were two adu units to just stopped. They never proceeded so part of our and reaching.

P

Out uh is to speak to those two people why'd, you stop. What are the barriers in place, so those are.

P

People that will be informative about how we're going to create specific, the adu type of housing.

P

Foreign, it's important for us to go out and meet these people to be informed, because the next thing.

P

We're going to do is we're going to come up with a survey both online and virtual and in person.

P

Part of the thing the engagement report uh that spoke about in public, realms that.

P

There were certain event days city-wide and we could certainly go out and be standing under a.

P

Tent and having people start coming through and engaging them about housing, and so everybody has.

P

uh And that's a citizen has a perception about what housing we want to make sure that that's.

P

Well-Balanced and well-rounded what we saw up on the screen earlier.

P

Was this large scale? We want to be able to also speak to the different scales that it.

P

Could occur, the informant interviews we're going to be talking to developers of scale.

P

That could add on additions all the way up to the larger scale. We want to make sure.

P

That, when we reach out to the public and these in public, realms we're able to speak to them,.

P

And they can speak to us about the different scale of how this housing can be accommodated.

P

So that outreach effort is then going to lead us into engagement and we go out into and we're.

P

Not sure yet we're going to figure out more about the neighborhood meetings and these.

B

Neighborhood meetings aren't the charrettes. They aren't specific to workshop they're going to be.

B

Presentation of what these different housing could look like what they have looked like. What and.

B

What we want to also do with this first step of the neighborhood meetings is listen. We want to.

B

Make sure that we can hear from the the community members the citizens, the residents, what they're.

P

Seeing and what they like and what they don't like of what they're, seeing and what's occurring.

B

And what was spoken about before about the how the where? But it's also an understand the look and so.

B

These uh areas are going to be district based because there's certain identities that people.

B

Have over uh in different districts of the city, we want to be able to gather during our informative.

A

Meetings, the ability in goes along with what nick and I have done with the data assessment, is, as we.

A

Listen, we want to be informed to these members of the public because we anticipate that it's.

P

Going to be, we want this, we don't want this. If it could happen, how would it happen, and so we.

B

Want to be well-rounded, and so we're going to be going. The next step would be an exercise session.

B

Where we go and say we heard you in the first listing session. These are the ideas this is.

I

Possible ways that it could occur and then we're going to get more into what would happen in terms.

I

Of policy at that point and nick's going to speak a little bit later on about what we're.

I

Going to be doing with policy, but the engagement, then the third step would become presentation of.

I

Findings, but it won't stop there, that's more of a wrap up for this first phase. This first step.

I

Yeah, do you want me to do this real, quick, yeah, we're reaching out to uh consultants that are.

I

On the state approved list of consultants to look at um they, they list three categories of potential.

I

Scope of work needs analysis and planning regulatory audits or regulatory development.

I

I'm sensing given we've, you know the needs part we're not there. Yet we've got to calibrate it.

I

With what what's coming in from the study you guys did with rkg and and what the rockingham planning.

I

Commission thinks uh but presuming we can get to our needs analysis step without maybe a consultant.

I

We would want to use them clearly to look at a regulatory audit of how things are working or.

I

Not and help us with code development, so I want to spend a lot of time on that. This is almost the.

I

Last slide, just to reiterate what howard said: this is about the: how what how where and the.

I

What and the what is the type of housing as well as what it looks like and importantly, to bob's.

I

Earlier question: it's the how much that's what we get and- and we can't get there without doing some.

I

Rigorous data analysis which we're just starting to do today with the data that we've presented.

I

And then developing the second step, which is a needs assessment. You know calibrating these. What.

I

Other people are saying our needs assessment is look at our data. Are they right, they're.

I

Wrong, do we need to adjust it and then identify that stakeholders that need to be interviewed.

I

And discussed and then have a public process, so we're not running around uh chasing things that.

I

The data may not substantiate as our need and then obviously take action with recommendations.

I

To do both regulatory uh changes as well as non-regulatory changes, and I I just listed a.

I

Few to again get the juices flowing for the next conversation. You know we're going to talk about.

I

These underlying densities, or or the the knobs and levers with the gateway districts to make.

I

Sure we've got it right and we're going to get a better batting average than 27 units out of 10.

I

Projects in the gateway district, we should look at considering overlay districts, maybe in addition or.

I

On top of the gateway, so we can better obtain workforce housing. There are certainly properties.

I

Outside the gateway district, that would benefit from an overlay, a floating overlay district to be.

I

Able to again have a conditional use, permit and mandate if you get that that you do workforce.

I

Housing adopt the adu amendments. You know, I think we do need to continue the conversation. Maybe it's.

I

Not high in the list, but assisted living senior housing incentives for micro units, those are all.

I

Things that I think we shouldn't forget, despite what we did with the adus moving, that forward.

I

I think, in light of uh smaller projects, the the medium and low density multi-family projects, those.

I

Folks, you know tend to get a free ride, they're not contributing to their fair share of supporting.

I

Workforce housing they're too small to provide it on site. They might be 10 units. There might.

I

Be eight but many communities have a payment and lieu option and have an affordable housing trust.

I

Or something that can receive those funds and put them towards a first-time home home buyers program.

I

Whatever the housing authority is doing or someone else, so I think we need to. We need to make this as.

I

Fair and equitable, as we can and not just rely on giant developers to provide us workforce housing.

I

I think we should continue to support what the pha is doing wherever they're doing it figure out. You.

I

Know work together is what support means and see if we can find the delta, so we all benefit from.

I

What the housing authority provides the city and, as we started the conversation looking at city.

I

Properties for workforce housing opportunities- uh and I think you know this is demonstrated to.

I

At least the planning staff, we need to better track our progress and trends, so we we get out.

I

Ahead of this, and we're not all headed down certain individual or collective goals and.

I

Objectives that aren't substantiated by the data, because we actually don't know the data.

I

So we need to we're going to make a a point in the planning department to keep this database.

T

Current and track it monthly so we'll we'll have a database in a central place. Anybody can grab.

P

The data and see what's actually happening and we can recalibrate what we're doing here from a.

I

Regulatory and non-regulatory standpoint, and to hit this last few words, we we've got some.

I

We've got some significant community concerns and issues, and even community goals that are not.

B

Being met by wherever you come on that spectrum of interest, pro-housing anti-housing too much.

Z

Here too much there wrong location. We we've got to make sure in this process. We address those.

Z

uh Community needs and- and uh hopefully do it effectively- that's it. I just want.

Z

To add that uh he talked about how there's a list of approved consultants to work with.

Z

And we are required to go off of that list and that's because of the 82 or 83 000 cop.

Z

Grant that we got that's hiring the consultant to help us with this. So just so, everyone knows.

Z

We are required. We are required by that grant to use that list of approved people under the.

Z

Program, there's a pretty and it's a robust list. It's extensive yeah, there's plenty of choice.

Z

All right any other questions or comments from the committee. I know there's a lot of information to.

Z

Digest, I think we should digest it and maybe add to it at our next meeting. We can fold in.

Z

The additional information that just came out this week and make it a slightly more detail we'll get.

Z

We'll keep finalizing and before we start to move forward, and I thought nick that you were at the.

Z

Beginning of the meeting you wanted everybody to stay, I did and I can see why you know and there's.

P

A there's a lot of data here that uh so thank you for the people that did today. I know it was a long.

Z

Morning, it's recorded, we can yeah. Well, it's yeah. It's not intuitive yeah right right. Unless anyone.

Z

Else has comments on the committee. Members from the public would like to come up and talk about.

Z

The last hour and a half with information.

Z

Sorry I'll go quickly because they're people just are far better than I page trace. Portsmouth.

Z

um Number one nick. Thank you very very much for this presentation. It was expensive and it.

Z

Was really informative? I have two questions, two thoughts as to the new development out behind the.

Z

Cemetery that you were referring to carson's woods right. Thank you off of beverly hill.

Z

Road am I correct? Yes, um I would call that a developer's maximization of profit margin and.

Z

Somewhere along the line uh we had a land grab. Obviously we have precious little land left.

Z

Very smart developers all over town. It goes without saying that anything, that's usable.

Z

Is probably in the hands of someone, so then it becomes the question of what is the appropriate.

Z

Development for gateway or for an area like that and does the city have any sway whatsoever.

Z

Community involvement or otherwise to have some sense of control over what a developer decides to.

Z

Do to maximize their profits? Is that a number of units per zone and a zoning issue where you can.

Z

Leverage what you can offer a developer and have effect on the number of units to that effect. I'm.

Z

Also confused about your use of the word workforce housing, particularly as it pertains down to route.

Z

1 and to the west end with west end yards, because I remember very distinctly that that would got.

Z

Down to the point, with a past planning department manager that we were literally down to five units.

Z

Of workforce housing now you're saying it's 27. and I'd like to know what the definition then is.

Z

For workforce housing for those units um number two: we talk about community involvement and.

Z

Community engagement and grants- I know recently it's a bone of contention and I do not live on.

Z

South street, so there are far more educated people who were directly involved with this, but I I sit.

Z

There and I say we're using grants to continue a three-dimensional housing project in the south end.

Z

And we're continuing that grant by scaring older people in the neighborhood, because all that's.

Z

Happening is someone walking on their property, which is trespass if they don't have permission.

Z

And is threatening the people and taking photographs of the.

Z

Back of their yards, that's trespass and a statement of intent is not permission.

Z

So I really would like to know whether we can't use those grants somewhere else within the htc.

Z

Or the historic district to address some of the questions that you have here as they pertain to.

Z

The historic district, rather than scaring people, because that was another public relations disaster.

Z

um And I it didn't affect me and I hope it doesn't, um but I do think we don't live in.

Z

The soviet bloc and so it'd be nice. If we got permission before we entered people's property.

Z

um Unless, of course, it's fire or police with a warrant- and I hope that never happens to.

Z

Any of us here either. um I I understand that that there was a disconnect, and I understand.

Z

That peter you tried to take care of it and thank you for doing that. But.

B

um I do have a question when it comes to community interaction, because thus far we.

C

Haven't seen much of it, that's been handled well and so there's, obviously a breakdown in.

C

Communication, but thank you again for this. I think it's great and I think that um did I say.

C

Something incorrectly, no, I'm not trying to answer him. No! Okay! um I think there are others today that.

C

Could probably address what happened? Well, we don't need to respond. It's just no exactly. I.

C

Was going to say if, if you want to stick around, I have a response to those three questions. No.

C

No two, luckily at a different point, as it was stated by the person that the council approved.

C

Is doing it so it goes further, but thank you fine. Thank you very much. Anyone else like to come speak.

C

Well, it's still morning so we're good sorry. I was late. um Elizabeth bradder property owner.

C

159 mcdonough street. um The first thing I'd like to suggest is that if you want to know how much.

C

Rents are in portsmouth. You should go on to all the websites, as opposed to asking people to fill.

C

Out a survey and telling them don't worry about the fact that your taxes are going to go up if.

C

You fill out that survey honestly because your assessment's going to go up so most of those.

C

Surveys are probably not filled out honestly and or not filled out at all. So if you go into.

C

The apartments.com craigslist marketplace or talk to local realtors you'll get a better idea.

C

um I'm pretty sure that workforce housing is identified by the state. Is that correct and.

C

um As someone who reads all those things that go to the state on a way too often business.

C

I need I would suggest that maybe we look at that and see if that's a realistic thing, I I find the.

C

Math, that's done to figure out. Workforce housing is based on mean income for your city. I believe.

C

And for the region for the region? Yeah, because I think it's a skew when you have people who can.

C

Afford three million dollar condos in portsmouth that their income might be a little higher than.

C

The person who's working at mcdonald's at 15 an hour and that kind of skews the regional.

C

Thing but that's a concern because I think that number is pretty high. It's not necessarily cheap.

C

um The um the concern I have in regards to development is, I think, development needs to.

C

Be balanced, as all of you spoke about my my biggest concern, is that we don't start people.

C

Perceive us as little boston because we have theater, we have music, we have pretty much.

C

Everything they have in boston only it's here in portsmouth and we're very lucky to have that.

C

But we don't want to turn into little new jersey, no offense to those who come from new jersey and.

C

Think it's a beautiful place, but when you drive through new jersey, you have a certain connotation.

C

Of what that looks like and that's what worries me about some of the amount of development that we're.

C

Doing and some of the look as you spoke of having lived in germany when there were two sides to.

C

Germany, you could tell the difference by looking at those square buildings and rectangles that.

C

We have now built in portsmouth. They also have a beautiful one in dover, which we don't want to talk.

C

About in regards to incentives, I think it would be nice if there were tax incentives for those.

C

Of us who are smaller unit people, we have just a few units in portsmouth and we try to keep our.

C

Price is low, although they've had to go out, go up anytime, you do a repair if you replace anything.

C

It's usually around ten thousand dollars, it seems to be for any heating system or anything like that.

C

So the cost has really gotten high, but in order to keep things reasonably priced, there might be.

C

Tax incentives, which would be something to think about in regards to incentives, I.

C

Find it very disconcerting and have often been to meetings where I have talked about the double.

C

Dipping concept, so a developer gets a gets, an incentive for height or whatever, and then they.

P

Want to get more height, so you I spend a lot of time showing up and talking about. This is double.

P

Dipping because they already got an incentive for height, but now they want to add another story.

C

Beyond that and to me that even shouldn't even be a topic of discussion, I guess they have the right.

P

To do that, but I think once you take the incentive, that's what you get. What you see is what you get.

P

The other thing I'd like to see to think about in regards to the gateway area, where you were talking.

P

About the fact that they already have a lot of availability would be maybe to make the amount of.

P

Required green space, not the community space, but the required greens debates to be a bigger amount.

C

And that may incentivize incentivize there being more green space automatically on those.

J

Bigger lots: you said that a lot of them come pretty big and they can put pretty big houses.

J

On those lots, but maybe looking at how much green space is required for those larger lots.

J

um I also believe strongly after watching all the greenway development go on anything beyond the 50.

J

um Foot set back for wetlands is not development. That's that's. That's a fact. I'm pretty sure peter.

J

Britz can confirm that or not, but you can't develop on that, usually in new hampshire and.

J

um I personally think that if you provide that as part of your incentive, it should count differently.

J

You couldn't you couldn't develop on there anyway, and then you give it to the city and.

J

You say here that's part of our 20 percent, so I think that that should have a different value.

J

We still want to preserve that, or they should be required to do more restoration in that.

J

um One of the developments along the north mill pond is doing very minimal restoration. Almost.

J

None but they're providing part of the gateway, the greenway, but that that 50-foot wetland buffer is.

J

Not being changed at all, yet another developer on another part of that same greenway is doing.

J

A lot of the city is doing a lot of um you're doing a whole restoration of that corner lot.

J

um So I think, if you're going to give it and you're going to get the count it towards your.

J

20, it should be counted differently or it should be be required that it be restored to whatever.

J

Restoration is needed per the environmental people and that's it for me. Thank you. Anyone else.

J

280 south street nick- I think this is great. um I think you gave us a good baseline of history on.

J

This um a lot of us were looking for that and I'm looking at the statistics. A lot of us look at the.

J

Numbers um in a big picture on this, I would ask this board to look at the big question of at this.

J

Point in time, with the amount of space we have in portsmouth, do we really need incentives? Besides,.

J

Workforce housing, that's the big question in my mind. We we spoke here about how much land we have.

J

How much half land we available? We have left for the city and I guess at a point in time when these.

J

Were put in there, the incentives were thought to be a good thing and move move developers forward.

J

But looking at the history that you presented and the amount of developers that actually took.

J

Advantage of the workforce- housing- um it's uh it was obvious a while ago- and still is that.

J

um That obviously needs to be changed. So um the simple thing to me: what would be to look to remove.

J

Any incentives for open space, because the other part of this that I don't feel was enforced, was.

J

Any type of enforcement of this developers would come in and say um we're going to give you your.

J

20 then they come back and say: oh, we can't do that. West end yards is a typical example of this.

J

um We had no enforcement if we're going to work this hard to do all of this work, to put something.

J

On the books, we need to take out either take out the loopholes or just eliminate it and make it.

J

Simple that this portsmouth wants workforce housing, and this is the way that you get it.

J

And just say you know so that those are my uh my first few comments. um I guess the other thing.

J

That I would question that we had previously is um the the description of community space.

J

um Having sat through all his meetings and and being on a lot of these, uh a lot of the planning.

J

um Meetings um we had sidewalks, we had planters, we had space between two hotels with entryways that.

J

Were considered community space, um I really don't believe that the community would take advantage.

J

Of those a lot of those and use in some cases they couldn't, but these were given for this, so I think.

J

In some ways, this the community space uh incentive was was a little abused. um I would also ask that.

J

um As far as the suggestion made, my um chair chillman, that if we do decide to take the parking.

B

Lots away that we put back the requirement in all our districts to put parking in any development.

A

That we do so, we don't come back down to having to look for another pace for another parking garage.

P

As far as a lot of citizens that have been here a long time, that would be.

B

A complete nightmare again when we're we're struggling for recreation needs we're struggling.

B

For housing- and we have the opportunity now to actually put that in and um I would I would urge.

V

You to take advantage of that. If um mr chillman's uh suggestion moves forward, um I think um the.

B

Question the only other question I would have is when you started this presentation nick, you said.

E

This this data was 20 20 up to 2020, and you you inserted some of the other ones and you would be.

P

Updating it, I would ask that you update all of the presentations that you were giving to the public.

P

um I guess in a kind of a timely manner, so there's a lot of stuff here for you guys to.

P

Look at and for us to absorb if we're going to give you intelligent feedback. So I would ask.

P

That it would be, um it would be, it would be put in there. It's all 2022, except for that one chart.

P

That was drawn from non-portsmith data, so it's all 2022, except for the one chart I pulled out. Yeah.

P

Well, I know the population is of 2022. no yeah population. I don't have population in 2022., so.

P

That that chart is not 20 22. right yeah. I don't know that I can update that or take it. I don't.

P

Know that that would be fruitful. All the data that I presented from portsmouth is 15 to 22. 15 to 22.

P

It's only that one sheet I grabbed from somebody else and stuck in there, because I I would just ask.

P

To keep us up on on the rest of this, so we could uh intelligent yeah. We could help you. Thank you.

P

I see you at 726 middle road, um i2, nick good job, and I wish that.

P

um That what you could do was put that piece that you gave not the whole meeting, but the.

P

Piece, the presentation with your comments and your descriptions and the powerpoint into some.

P

Type of module that could go on the website easy for people to find, because I would hate to see.

P

That all of that work was for four of us sitting here in the audience. It was great. It explained a.

P

Lot, it explained a lot of the questions that that people that residents have and if the city manager.

P

And her thing that she puts out could highlight that and say: here's the module click it on this.

P

May answer some of the housing questions for the residents. I think that would be awesome.

P

And it would be a good use of time to do that. So that's great um incentives. um I think you.

P

Know this is me, but I think incentives should be non-negotiable. I mean that that's where the the.

P

Problems come in. You do all this work, you know the zoning, you write the regulations and then.

P

um People come before you in land use boards and want exceptions to every every incentive. Every.

P

You know everything that you've put out there and really it should be non-negotiable. Otherwise, why.

P

Is it in writing, so you look at west end yards. I mean that was a classic and I know that a lot of.

P

Work was done to make the gateway. I understand why the gateway was developed, but then to immediately.

P

Have west end yards come back and say sorry, we can't make it work. We still want our density. We.

P

Still want our height, but we're only going to give you 10 percent, not 20 percent, we're not going to.

P

Give it at the 60 percent level, it should have been non-negotiable. Well, then, you don't get the.

P

Extra, that's all, um and I really like what corey said about um the uh the bit around incentives.

P

um The open space incentives in that gateway- um I don't have a dog, but if I had a dog I would not.

P

Take my dog to the chain link fence area at west end yards to walk it. um It's it's not community.

P

Space for 22 000 people, it's community space for the 250 people that are living in west end yards.

P

um So you know they got again like look at all the incentives that they were given um and and.

P

And I'm not sure they should have been given that, um because they they got more more and more.

P

um And I I don't think little a little park area in the back. There is going to be used by anybody.

P

Except the people that are living there, and so I think it's different downtown than it is out there.

P

um And then my final, which I don't know whether this will ever happen. But I would really like to.

P

Have somebody have a discussion around workforce house and what it means and what the definitions.

P

Are and where we're headed with that in the city, because um it seems to me- and I don't.

P

Know all the ins and outs- and this is just what I hear see in the newspaper- hear you all discuss.

P

um That a project like court street um was not at 60. Perhaps but maybe the income was a.

P

Little bit higher so we're looking at a different population of people, and so when you're talking.

P

About building workforce housing at sherburne or anywhere else, I'd like to know who, what.

P

The workforce is that you're building, that for because it seems that there are presently sort of.

P

Different layers of that- and I don't think that we're being honest with people about who that's.

P

Being built for, are we now moving from that list that you said craig that you have 600 people on to.

P

um To a new list of other people have talked about the teachers and the and the police officers that.

P

Can't live in the city is that who you're now building the workforce? Housing for, and I think.

P

That we need to be clear about that, because I think that that that the um you know the.

P

People that are living in portsmouth- they don't understand that, and I and I think that that you.

P

Just you need to be clear because to me, I'm not sure why at court street you were out taking new.

P

Applications and advertising, if you already had 600 people on a list that needed housing.

P

Why were you looking at new applications um and giving housing to those people over people that.

P

Have been sitting on a list for I don't know how long so that that may be another.

P

Discussion but I I would just like somebody to explain that clearly for everyone to understand.

P

So that as you're moving forward and talking about affordable housing that you're building.

P

Who that affordable housing is for, and that's it for me. Thank you. Thank you.

P

Any other committee member have final points. Oh, is there anything online.

P

Doesn't look like I'm lucky, no see any hands up wore them all.

P

Out what oh there's an iphone there, my joke listening, she said she said shoot so: okay,.

P

um With that, unless anyone has any final comments, I will call the meeting. Finally, in april.

P

What first friday, in april first friday in april, will be our next meeting? Yes, I.

P

Don't know the data when we're done sorry, but yes, we go back to the first right that all of.

P

Them are listed on the city website right now. All the dates of our meetings are there.

P

uh Thank you. Everyone.