City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Land Use Committee, 1 Sep 2023

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From YouTube: 9.1.2023 Land Use Committee

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9.1.2023 Land Use Committee

A

Good morning, everyone and welcome to our land use committee meeting here on friday september.

A

1St uh we are going to get started with a continued discussion on the gateway zoning.

A

That we've been talking about for months, we had posts. Last meeting talked about a group.

A

Of properties that would actually um along the lafayette and corridors that would make.

A

Sense to possibly move into the gateway, so I had posts put together that list and set.

A

It up to the group to look at, I believe it's approximately 57 properties on that list and.

A

Then we also talked about doing an analysis of a comparison of the gateway, zonings and.

A

Compared as compared to industrial general business, mixed residential business and those.

A

So we're going to start by a discussion of the list of properties that we have put together.

A

Oh we'll start at the top of the list. Did anyone go through this have any thoughts. I my original.

A

Thought was is that we would try to look at what might be, I want to say, a slam dunk, but.

A

Just it totally makes sense and there's really kind of almost no question that it should be.

A

Moved into a different zoning properties to the ones that maybe require a bit more thought, it.

A

Might take a little bit more um discussion? Did these happen to get put on a map just.

B

Just a question: not a criticism. No, no! It's a goal.

A

It took peter- and I this long just to get what we got yeah.

B

But we'll keep working it's just hard to relate mostly just an extension of uh gateway. I mean.

A

Right this is, these are all the properties that we looked at on the map when we were looking at.

A

The map I had written them all down and now I've just put them in the gateway zone on lafayette.

C

Road, I think we looked at just right extending to a second lot deep was what the discussion was, but.

A

There were some other discussions about you know, verona, road and talking about the office. Research.

A

And where that lies along the bypass and along woodbury, so we our discussion, went farther so.

A

um That's why I put in sort of sizes of lots, uh their current zoning and what we had sort.

A

Of discussed as far as a gateway, possibility and then put the analysis of the two together.

A

So that we could really take a look at it and I'm not saying we'll get this all done in one.

A

Meeting but at least we'll keep continuing the conversation until we get somewhere. Yes, andrew.

D

Some industrial, it's I think it's most industrial- is a special special exception in g1 and g2. When.

D

Changing from industrial to g1 or g2, does that then become by right or what are the limitations.

D

That would be instilled on that. If you depends on what you're looking at. Because if you look at the.

A

Side by side of industrial office, research, general business, mixed residential and garden department.

A

It tells you in in the materials everything that's allowed by right and everything. That's.

A

Allowed by special exception, so um it kind of depends on what you're talking about right.

A

If you want to talk about a specific use or a specific collection of uses, that may or may not be.

A

Allowed in the game, I tried to do gateway separate from the other four as far as on tables, so that.

A

You could put them side by side if you wanted to and really kind of analyze between the gateway and.

A

The industrial or office research, or whatever we're looking at changing from what is allowed and.

A

What is it so? Aren't there really two tasks? One is the list of properties you might consider changing.

B

And then the other is to look at the zoning itself and whether that might need some massaging.

B

Right right, but I think the analysis of the different zonings was so as we were looking at.

A

Changing are we giving more? Are we taking away? That's that I was the reasoning for putting up.

A

The permitted uses versus special exception uses anything that's not permitted in these districts.

A

Is just not listed right? I just left it out, so it made it a little bit straightforward when you.

B

Were rationalizing the list beth? Did you add or delete anything from our very rambling content.

A

I would say some of the stuff off of woodbury when I wait, because we got so towards the end.

A

So um we talked about commerce way but sort of more in general terms and the stuff out by.

A

Oriental gardens gosling road, so those I would say that we had such a lighter conversation. I.

A

Just tried to include as many that seem to make sense, so we could look at it a little bit further.

C

Oh, you know um I hate to rezone, let's say heritage avenue so that you can do apartments.

C

Because you know the post office looked like a good opportunity for that. But then.

C

You know years down the road that could just turn into a row of apartments and you lose all.

C

The industrial right we were only looking at sort of one lot farther down. I did put a question at.

A

The bottom, I think about, should all of heritage app, because that was a question we kind of asked.

A

um But it wasn't didn't really. I didn't put all those properties on the list. I kind of.

A

Just left that, as more of a general question I don't know, is that an issue if you sort of.

C

Just zone one building well we're basically trying to do the lot. That's next to gateway.

A

Already right we're just going right, but on heritage avenue, for instance, you know where.

C

The post office is all the way down to the end yeah they're, not in this list. Oh they aren't.

A

Okay, no heritage ave, I guess correct there are, but it's the property right behind right.

C

Lafayette road, where it's I know, that's, I think, that's kind of a given that we're doing that.

C

um It would seem, you know, that's not a stretch, oh look, you brought it up.

D

Here, could I bug you to make it the satellite or the hybrid one.

B

Thank you. I think, while he's doing that, I'm not sure how much of a presentation, howard.

B

Has in our short time frame, we don't have any presentations. It's just this discussion.

B

On the housings manual and all that he's just got a verbal update. Okay, I'm just wondering.

B

If it makes sense to once these properties are all on a map that we can have a more substantive.

B

Discussion, so we don't get sidetracked on well. Is this one enters this one out.

B

I just it's so helpful to have it. I think what would help is, if get some.

E

Feedback for what what represented on the map, besides just highlighting the parcels, I mean.

B

um Existing zoning and partial subjects are being considered for change. I think I mean for me yeah.

A

But is there anything on this list that you guys just think we shouldn't even consider? I guess we could start there? Is there anything you've thought about since.

A

We talked about it because these are all the ones that we talked about right so right.

A

Is there anything that strikes you as just no, we shouldn't even talk about it.

A

We can start there and then we'll take some away and then we'll have less to look at right.

A

um My only consideration, or my only.

D

Call out would be, is it worth our time to include like the us army corps of engineers, building.

D

If we know that in the next, however long I know this is like a future consideration, but.

D

That building's not going anywhere the military isn't going to get rid of that building tomorrow,.

D

um I don't disagree, but as devil's advocate, we actually talked about whether or not we even.

A

Needed office, research in the city anymore, right so sure, okay, so it was just the change of zoning.

D

All together, okay, not for redevelopment purposes; no, it has nothing to do with redevelopment. It's.

A

Just it's, I don't want it to be left out at like an island like the two mrv. Lots are on lafayette.

A

Road now I'd, rather, we really look at all of it, inclusively so that it actually makes holistic.

A

Sense versus just leaving a lot out because we don't think it will get developed. I I would.

D

Venture to say that the 2021 to 1601 lafayette, which is the fringe of owen,.

D

Park, I think, is that right, 9 through 15. is that what you're talking about uh no 18 18., okay, yep.

D

um I'd be hard-pressed to think that you're gonna get redevelopment there. um You're gonna get quite.

D

A bit of pushback from residents, as well as a lot of individual purchases that would have to align.

D

So I don't know if that's those lots are very shallow as well. It's a main thoroughfare where.

D

Access in and out would be very tough. You have a couple different signals intersections. The.

D

Dot wouldn't be thrilled without any redevelopment there. Although a consolidation of driveways might.

B

Looked at as a good thing, how does the city's assessment work if the zoning would allow.

B

Because going from single families to zoning would allow higher use, would they be taxed on that basis,.

E

Request, I don't know that I felt in my head.

B

Yeah, it's an up zoning, so it wouldn't be. You know what they're currently doing wouldn't be.

B

Not permitted, or we can certainly ask the tax assessor to give us that information.

A

So I will pick those as a potential strikeouts.

A

Anyone else comments on or agree with that or disagree with that which ones when you were.

C

Talking lafayette on the list is number eight. Is it from the group of properties square up to the.

B

Mckinney yeah, I thought I didn't think we were um considering those anyway. We talked about them so.

A

I put everything we talked about on this list. Right yeah. I agree. I don't think that side of.

C

The road is worth doing or rezoning yeah, it's all housing right yeah, but does it make sense to have.

B

Housing along that stretch of lafayette- maybe not you know in the long term, I'm thinking long.

B

Term, it doesn't doesn't say they can't continue forever. I don't know but uh yeah. I think that's.

B

That's a different cell. The reason I asked about the tax question is: if they're not going to get.

B

Hit with a higher tax bill, then it's only an upside for the landowners, but if their taxes go.

B

Up, it's not an upside sure. It's actually number 18 because uh yeah on the list, it is 18. yeah.

F

I mean a well-established neighborhood yeah. I think people have lived there for a long time.

G

Yeah people enjoy living there. That's why they currently live there right it's on route, one, but.

C

So what I guess I would agree with what you're telling me about? Does it make sense to have.

D

Residential there, probably not, but it doesn't always make sense. You have it today anyway, so.

D

It's not a this or that it's more of like the feasibility of a future development. In my opinion,.

D

We're not talking about a taking we're, not talking about get rid of your houses, we're just talking.

F

About additional opportunities, so I don't know yeah if their tax bill go up would go up because.

B

Of it, I wouldn't support it. I guess I don't know how the tax bill would go up. Well, if, if it got.

B

Rezoned to gateway they could do a higher, more intense development, so it presumably worth more.

B

Money and a commercial developer could buy a group of lots, yeah saying with their appraisal, come in.

A

Would their properties be appraised differently if we change the zoning right, I think, is the question.

A

Right, thank you. I would think they would, but it depends on what the assessors would do if.

A

They would yeah right. We would have to ask the tax assessor that question, which we can certainly do.

D

Shredding lightly on this, but they are might be a current proposal hypothetically in this certain.

D

Area that just got a little bit of pushback, and that might be a good case study as to what that.

D

Neighborhood thinks of any certain development going on in it yeah um a little losses too, but.

A

You're arguing very current development on this street in this neighborhood that has received a.

D

Little bit of pushback- and I would use that as a pretty good preceding example, for any certain.

D

Change in context of that neighborhood alone, yeah, except that that one does would require.

B

Variances, so that's a whole different way to look at something yeah. I guess that is the biggest lot.

D

In consideration along this line of six years, so you're talking about what's mrb, yes, that's.

A

Not in that line I understand yeah, but it's in the neighbor textually. You look at what could be.

D

Done in that certain zone and the lot sizes that would allow for certain developments- and I don't.

D

Think that you yield a high enough return as a zoning situation to make it worthwhile.

A

You're talking just specifically the single family.

A

Residential lots correct whether you combine them or not, because of how shallow they are.

H

Other thoughts, I just get nervous about changing any you know srb any. I don't know.

G

Creating a different neighborhood, you know I mean just because you used to live there.

G

But then the lot next to you is changed. Then it's changing um that'd, be my only concern so.

A

We've agreed to take 18 off the list, or do we still want to find out about taxes? First.

B

I'd like to know the answer to that question in any case as we as we go forward um yeah, I wouldn't.

C

That wouldn't be in favor of putting any of those houses on the list. Any part of that neighborhood.

B

From a land finding perspective, what rich just said is true, you don't generally want.

B

To have a zone change at the side, lot line with a zone change on the rear lot line is.

B

Pretty normal and you generally want to have similar zone across the street now lafayette's.

B

A big street so that that's a bit different, but just as general land planning practice. However,.

A

We can get the answer to the question as well, so we would know in the future so.

A

There's certainly other single residence be lots being considered along that road, such as a church.

A

At dentist's office and vacant lands, so you know it's also. This is the hand on one of the lots.

E

Put um that's the westerly where his hand just was right. What I'm talking about is closer to the.

A

High school but they're they're, still it's it's single residence b, throwing something else so sure.

A

uh There's the church across from uh mcdonald's as well. That's still.

A

I believe srb, yes, yeah yeah, I mean that's, I think, a better candidate for redevelopment than.

C

Any of the single-family homes and that well entrenched neighborhood there.

C

The church is sort of an island, it is an island on the map. Yes, I agree.

A

Is it on the list? I don't okay, it is, it is number 22.

A

I just figured if I numbered them, it'd be so much easier to refer.

G

My ad easier than using the map lot number right exactly if we use tax map and a lot.

A

Of addresses they're all similar, so it's difficult so yeah. So we really.

A

Feel 22 is, you know, totally makes sense when we're just talking about srb to a gateway.

G

I would definitely agree, I mean if you saw you know what happened with the former st.

G

James church site um that got redeveloping the housing. That's also on this list, which I.

A

Think shouldn't be srb as well. I mean it's got 48 units on it right now, so it really.

A

Makes sense to extend, I think, the gateway into that thought. Do we agree on that? One.

G

um But yeah definitely any office research. Obviously I mean you.

G

Mentioned considering even getting rid of the whole office research, zoning.

G

So I definitely can any that's currently in office research on our list right now. I would.

G

Hope we consider, given the the offices and industrial parks, aren't exactly.

G

Being built they're being popular in anyone, what is number 27.

A

Oh, that's the hotel on the bypass which one across from the car.

A

Dealership, the corner of borthwick, I'm pretty sure the port inn. That's.

H

Cool, am I correct, isn't that being redeveloped.

A

It has a proposal yeah, it's not approved as of yet it was yeah, I'm pretty sure. That's.

H

Just the instruction yeah, it's just been in discussion. It hasn't actually gone forward so.

A

At least the last, I knew it's being studied.

A

Anything else comes that people want to talk about. What is the question down? The bottom should west.

B

Road be something other than industrial. uh This is a question that we discussed because west road.

A

Runs right along with lafayette, and uh you all brought up that question. That's why, when some.

A

General questions were brought up. Does it make sense to change that we're going to change what.

A

Runs along lafayette because we don't even have g1 now along lafayette and we're looking at too.

A

Deep, you guys said: does it make sense to look at west road, so I put it there so that we could.

A

Continue the conversation is there an actual difference between the light purple? Oh okay and.

E

um Foot and m is municipal: that's uh community campus! Well, what's the m.

A

On west road there's a tiny little, I think, pump station there. Oh okay.

D

Sorry, I couldn't see the difference, but the darker purple around the industry.

A

So yeah, so that question came up so I didn't want us to not discuss.

A

It or keep discussing it since it was brought up by the group.

B

Be a new zone that isn't as yeah historic is industrial and office research. Perhaps.

B

Does gateway do enough or well, and that's what gets back to us continuing to look at.

A

The differences between gateway and industrial and, what's allowed with saddle, lab and there's.

A

Changing this area to gateway would certainly allow for housing to be built. If someone wanted.

G

To build on top of market basket or you don't even or go up, or um I mean that area, their services.

G

There there's you know now, there's ball fields, um I don't know, I'm just kind of that's not incorrect.

D

I think that's a valid pattern. There do. I think it's imminent, no yeah, and I think that a lot of.

D

Those industrial uses are well established much like the pike industries, banfield road situation,.

D

Where you're neighboring, those two so yeah gateway, one has about 43 permitted uses and industrial.

A

As 31., I do remember taking note that there is one thing that's only allowed in industrial. That's not.

A

Allowed anywhere else, as I was reading through all this, and that was a social service campus.

A

Which I'm not sure if we have any or what they would even be considered a social service campus.

A

um It's permitted in a industrial and it's not permitted anywhere else in our.

A

Zoning, but that is the only thing I noticed, wasn't permitted in another zoning district.

E

The gateway does allow many industrial uses, but they're all special exceptions. We're in industrial.

E

They're permitted, I write the main difference. Well, I don't remember between or and gateway one is the.

E

um Or allows for hospital where gateway doesn't otherwise, the use is pretty much aligned.

E

With what's permitted in or versus, what's allowed a gateway.

B

A social service campus is supposed to be 25 acres. Minimum is that we don't have a whole.

A

Lot of practice, that's a strange. It is a strange, the same thing, that's why I bring it up because.

A

I'm like it was just something I noticed was not allowed it's very. I I'm not even.

A

Entirely sure, if we even have anything that would what's really funny is, I was noticing.

A

In all of this- and I think I wrote it down somewhere because I found it odd- was the.

A

um The fact that we have a water park and water park amusement parks, water parks, theme parks.

A

Are not allowed in any of our districts, but we do have one. I thought we should.

A

um And you know, and when I was looking at all this, the gap with restaurants, you either have a.

A

50 person, restaurant or you're 250 and there's there's nothing for approvals in between so.

A

um That seemed to be a really big gap in my mind, something if we're going to.

A

Look at changing what these zonings are flagging. Those things seem to be.

A

Because when we started to really look at the um like oriental gardens, why is oriental gardens.

A

Being a um or yeah it's it's in the office research, along with a lot of.

A

The commerce way office buildings which or and g1 as you point out it just gives them.

A

A little bit more flexibility, if you take away the or and move it into g1,.

G

Put a little bit of flexibility wouldn't affect there tax or anything or the property value or.

G

They're, I don't think so, because office research would already be a commercial district right.

A

So you probably already have a higher base value for assessments would be. I would assume, if we're.

A

Going from like office research to g1 that it would be a similar base value because similar.

A

Things are allowed. It would be whether or not you're going from a residential district to a.

A

Business district that there might be the jump in change, but I have wrote that question down.

A

So I will definitely ask yeah important for us to know, as we start to analyze and look.

A

At this and talk about it, so assisted living is only allowed in general business mm-hmm.

B

That could be a it's it's I want to say it hang on.

A

Captain's here I believe, it's by special exception and other ones.

E

In the gateway, yeah gateway allows it by special exception well and the character well. Cd4 and cd5.

A

Yeah so some of the characteristics keep in mind. This isn't all our districts either. So.

A

What are the criteria, for the special exception? Are the honors now they're not hugely on earth? No.

C

Three containing decision about the office research zone on lafayette, road.

C

The one you know between campus drive and.

C

Market basket, we were just talking about it. Do you have more, you want to talk about, go no well.

C

um What are we thinking for that? I mean, I would think either gateway one or two.

A

I think was yeah for office research right, okay, but then I I guess I would leave west road alone.

A

And that's fine yeah. It was the question brought up the last time. That's why I just left it as a general question. Okay,.

A

um Hang on to 9 to 15 is the or that's the or district yeah nine to fifteen.

A

I clumped them all together because they were in such a straight shot. Road.

A

So we definitely want to move those to g1 or at least keep those on a green lighted sort.

A

Of list to continue to look at so is the orange g1 and the other g2, or what vice versa. Warren.

E

Up here is g2 and then that's g1, so you could go either way because it goes build directions.

A

And the differences between those two, if you look at the analysis, is.

A

Really just there's more intensive uses, probably.

A

um Like the hospitals and things like that, they're allowed in g1 that aren't allowed in g2.

C

So, hospitals, what about medical opposition is allowed is not allowed in g2, both in both yeah.

D

I was thinking that as well as medical shifts to a smaller footprint overall, but a standalone.

E

Hospital is only permitted in one district and that's so r, so we would have to if we.

A

Just made the decision to look at getting rid of that. We'd probably have to obviously look at.

A

Putting hospitals into either another district or you know, we'd- have to shift things around.

A

Conference, I find it interesting that g2 allows for a restaurant like take out.

G

Only fast food or 50 person, but then g1 is the 250 yards right. That's where I noticed.

A

The rooms- don't- I guess- okay, your biggest g1- allows to take out only as well or fast food.

G

If I didn't see the fast food- and so I was like that would be just as you can.

A

Do a more intense restaurant in g1 than you can in g2 yeah.

F

But, for example, um are you familiar with the.

D

Emergency room in seabrook that person hospital just built yeah.

D

Okay, I hardly ever leave portsmouth, it's just emergency services and a standalone pad.

D

um Like what they did in dover, similar yeah wait a minute. You said you don't leave portsmouth so.

A

I was born in dover, so I do sometimes have to go. I'm wondering what that would be classified.

D

As because it's not standard outpatient, uh it would but it would be more outpatient because.

A

I don't think they keep people overnight right right, emergency, okay, so it's really.

D

Just that the stay correct it's, whether or not you actually have rooms and keep.

A

People I didn't know if there were other like attack considerations or something like that.

D

Yeah, I think, looking at your questions at the bottom and thinking about some.

B

Of the things that are going on regionally and locally, some of the outdoor uses aren't really.

B

Contemplated by our current zoning, like uh say, a big pickle, ball court complex or something like.

B

That even tennis or other things, that's in some recreation facilities, which could be commercial.

B

Not necessarily municipal, I think, that's uh we have indoor and outdoor recreation uses. We do yeah.

A

I believe oh a lot of those are allowed under accessory uses. If I remember correctly,.

A

Accessory to the principal outdoors primitives in gateway, one and two.

B

Outdoor watch, though, because recreation, yes, so you could have where is it number nine on both of them.

D

And I also mentioned, like the flight house, gym, has a gym and a pickleball facility in.

D

The same building yeah outdoor recreation uses are permitted in both gateway districts. It's.

B

Going to be depending on how it's defined, because outdoor recreation could be walking.

B

Through the salt marsh area, or it could be a commercial pickleball court, complex.

E

12 courts for for profit, it is athletic fields, golf courses, tennis, courts and swimming pools.

E

um As a principal use, yeah for outdoor recreation.

E

Okay, no pickleball.

H

I'm not getting behind any pickleball that was that was probably written before pickleball was.

D

Even yeah, uh yes, yes, they've got a sound issue. They have to deal with yeah. That's why I erasers.

B

It's not quite as loud as a rock hammer, but you know just as annoying.

A

Other properties on the list that we want to and we had originally started.

A

Sorry he has to look at the map, even though we looked at the map. The last time.

B

But to see the you know, the subtle changes and nuances that you did and it's just hard to so.

A

Do I pull first one 126 lang road, since we never really talked about that one in this it.

B

Does look like a uh rather discontinuous group of colors up there so right there here was it.

E

um That one is behind service credit union yeah. So that's number one on our list. So that's the.

A

One, that's in garden, apartment mobile home and whether or not we'd want to switch that one to g1.

A

And when we look at the analysis between the two.

A

um It certainly seems like you're allowed to do just as many, if not more things in g1, as you are.

A

In the obviously the garden apartment and mobile home, I didn't really notice anything other than.

A

A mobile home park: um let's do one right now beside it right, yeah, yes, yeah! It makes sense.

A

It does yeah, that's you know where all this conversation started just looking at stuff.

A

That was next to it. What is the panhandle part of that? That's wetlands, oh god, yeah.

A

All right and um yeah and patriots park we had actually talked about, because that is.

A

uh Also garden apartment mobile home we had talked about because, especially that.

A

Front section whether or not we wanted to since g1 is already right next to it as well.

A

Whether or not that made sense, the undeveloped sort of portion of it.

A

Or do we want all of it? I I don't know and most of it's wet, I believe in the back as well.

G

I think the fun part definitely makes sense yeah. I think the front.

I

F

B

I didn't mean to force going line by line, but well it's really the only organized way to get this done.

A

um And then we were looking at the warehouse building that is on heritage, just nope right.

A

Literally right next door, yep right there that lot right there, I believe, is number that's 55 heritage.

A

Because I really did try to do this in order to how we looked at them, so we talked about.

A

If we're going one lot deeper, because then that brings in the lot across the street as.

A

Well, which is the 70 heritage of the storage unit complex, whether or not it made it sense?.

A

To drag g1 back just one lot deeper on heritage f, so not the whole street, as you.

A

Had mentioned bob, but just those two lots right: there.

F

I guess the argument could be made both ways. I would look at the now mckinnon's previously shaw's.

D

Plaza development, which now house housing and soon to have more housing, as, like someone say, oh yeah, I.

D

Live out on constitution ave and be like what the hell are you doing out there, but in all reality, if.

D

You said that for heritage ave, I think it would be the same impression overall, the difference.

D

Being that retail component and the mixed use component in the future development sense sure.

D

Heritage, app could probably have some of that as well, but again being hard-pressed to see all.

D

Those properties change and become something similar right. Yeah. I think the 70 and 100 is.

A

The lot highlighted plus the lot that has more storage units on it, because they're understood.

A

That one yeah they're under similar ownership as well, I included both of them. This ownership.

D

Did dictate any no, but it made it sort of a straighter shot when you click on both of them.

A

That seem to make sense they kind of go together, but but we don't have to include those obviously.

C

I just hate to lose any industrial because yeah we don't have any. It was literally none left.

A

So you don't want to look at those we'll take those off the list. Well, it's my opinion, but.

F

Three four: five.

A

Anyone else's spots just wonder if that, if this starts to highlight the question.

B

I made earlier about whether we need something maybe not called industrial.

B

But industrial transitional use because I think we're seeing like office research isn't.

B

Really a big thing anymore and even office buildings downtown are having a hard time.

B

And what we call industrial 40 years ago, isn't really what we're calling industrial today so.

B

Are we missing, or you know, are businesses wanting to come to the city that can't find.

B

A spot yeah we need to find so maybe we put those on the list that we continue the conversation we.

A

Take a specific look at what are the different business uses between gateway and industrial.

A

A

A

Yeah, yes, thank you right also right behind g1.

A

And we were looking at the possibility of going, I believe, across the street as well. It's.

A

I believe both of those so yeah there's so there's technically two properties in the.

A

One that's highlighted and then there's that property, which is already partially.

A

G1 and then the rest is not because that's water country, so the question is whether or not two.

A

Make any sense as well or what are our thoughts around those two properties.

A

Being added to what they're, already surrounded by, which is g1.

B

So water countries do you want an industrial? Well, it correct. It's g1.

A

Up front and then it's industrial, so we talked about just making the whole lot, one that was a big loss of industrial land when they went in.

A

Do you think they're gonna change.

B

And what about when, you think of industrial and the loss of things.

B

You're thinking like a manufacturing plant or uh warehouse manufacturing, yeah.

C

It's not always traditional, you know like what we thought of as a machine shop or something.

C

Like that, but there's a there's, a big call for industrial space and no one can find it even like.

D

Distribution, space, overhead doors, loading docks things to that effect that allow companies to.

D

Have an address here: if they're, not a retail component, like the new proposal out of fees.

D

um Yeah, that's one. That's one concept, certainly another one. What was that there's a new.

B

Distribution center going into fees, furniture, distribution, yeah, but I don't think that's.

B

I'm not saying, instead of I'm just saying as an example of a use that you're talking yeah, I.

B

Guess yeah I mean that's, that's one scale of it. There are a lot smaller scales as well. A lot of.

D

E-Commerce distributors or like port city pretzel, is a good example where it's a small food vendor.

D

They just needed warehousing and inventory space overhead door for distribution, and then it's you.

D

Know that's very life use to me uh granted they're, not all like that, but that property.

D

There are still machine shops, yeah manufacturers, late in the area that are looking to expand or buy.

B

Their own place, or I'm seeing a scale difference between some of these with machine shops and.

B

Other things, even port city, pretzel, probably being smaller in terms of traffic and some of the larger.

B

But assembly plants and that sort of thing- that's, that's a that. That's been a more more of.

B

A hot use in recent years, yeah yeah, it's like the anticipation of okay. If that becomes a warehousing.

D

Building and then there is some opportunity for residential now you have competing uses and all.

D

That truck traffic or the distribution component becomes very litigious. I think, in my opinion,.

D

Because of that truck traffic, I sort of saw that on banfield road yeah, as you say, where previously.

D

We've been driving those trucks intentionally that way, um if granted, projects got done and they have.

D

Houses there now, but so what I hear from all of you is a concern that maybe the ones that are.

A

Currently, industrial properties, we should pull out to a separate and do a separate analysis of what.

A

It would mean, as a difference from industrial to gateway yeah, I kind of feel like housing.

C

Is more compatible with office use or the office research zone and the uses in it than industrial.

G

It doesn't always mix well yeah, right well and part of it, I think, is a problem with the label.

B

Because industrial classically means things that are definitely not compatible with housing, yeah.

B

Yeah, but I think some of the uses we're talking about could on a certain scale could be compatible.

B

With nearby housing, not necessarily next door but nearby, so that wouldn't include the pike plant.

B

But yeah and with that said, I mean obviously the overarching goal of this meeting. This committee.

D

I think at the very moment is the creation of housing or the ability to create housing.

D

But with that said, the gateway also has a lot more conducive uses for some of the flex spaces.

D

That we're talking about some of the more dynamic quote, unquote industrial light industrial space. So.

D

Obviously my brain goes to like well, how can we create housing, but in a not competing area.

D

But at the same time, this gateway component has so much more ability, it's much more flexible to do it.

D

um But obviously, if you give a mouse a cookie people are going to go and try.

D

To create that housing and and that's where you're going to get a headache, I think when.

A

We originally created the gateway, it was a chance for housing to come where there are strip malls.

A

And that was the idea and it's starting right: we're actually starting to see that and see a.

A

Little pocket communities and neighborhoods being built, so the idea of extending it is.

A

To try to promote the idea that more of that has the flexibility to happen, and it's funny.

D

Your comment about you: don't leave fort smith, sometimes in my day-to-day business, where people.

D

Come to town and they want to move to banfield road and I'm like whoa like what do you mean.

D

But in all reality it's kind of like step back and say: well, it's a beautiful house in a small little.

D

Neighborhood, it's two seconds to this two seconds that, like you, do have to reset yourself and reset.

D

Your perspective on that, because, ultimately people in so many different backgrounds, we welcome people.

D

From all over, and so that could be driving it rather than just the demand for housing itself,.

D

It's like, maybe they don't want to live in a lincoln ave, style, neighborhood or a market street.

D

South downtown neighborhood, so there are those preferences as well and I apologize. I have to.

G

Step out I have a funeral I have to go to, but um oh, if I have more notes I'll, send them to you and.

G

I appreciate it. The conversation will keep going unless we're just starting to try to segregate.

A

What we're going to talk more about and what we think is easier to move forward with? um Okay,.

A

So I've basically just started to sort of put a a slow down section together in a section, so we.

A

Can start to divide this just into maybe two lists to continue the conversation.

A

um I know campus drive when we're talking about community campus. That's really been.

A

Moved to municipal at this point, so we might just take that off the list.

A

um We have the two mrb lots that uh sit next to westerly yep.

H

We have those, oh.

H

It's one of them really is the address.

C

Early zoned mrb because that's actually sitting at 2075, I think I missed it- did.

A

I you know, I am not a perfect person, although I do strive to be a perfect person every day.

A

I will add that in it should have been right in this section. Clearly I somehow missed it.

B

Which one has the address: zero? Zero, zero lafayette? uh That's.

H

Just the vacant lot, that's right! Next to it, yeah what.

A

uh We're looking at 16 17, yes,.

A

Those are under common ownership, too, aren't they? They are yes, which is why they have common.

A

Ownership, you try to look at them together, it's kind of a dumb zoning, because it's only.

C

Zoned that way, because there was a business there, so it was carved out- should be srb.

C

In my opinion, where the whole thing should be gateway, like we talked about earlier right, right.

A

Since there is already businesses there.

C

I think you ruined that neighborhood if you make that gateway, but changing the zoning doesn't.

B

Change the neighborhood just creates a different opportunities, so I guess I've said that already.

D

It's your grammatical question on number 33 100 is that coakley road.

H

What number 33.? Oh yeah, I misspelt yeah that happens. I fixed it.

H

I was getting a little googly-eyed looking at all these fairly well changing those to um srb or.

B

Anything like that would be a down zoning um yeah, but I mean I think we should take the westerly and.

A

Then, on the other side to continue g1, but that's my my thought on all of this. I don't know what.

A

Other people agree with that or disagree with that, not that this these changes are imminent.

D

But should we wait for that proposal to be not active? There isn't anything right now.

C

Thanks for coming back with something I got denied, they yeah they were denied yeah.

A

And anyway, this discussion doesn't affect that they can still proceed.

B

Yeah because they're already there they already came forward.

H

So what do we I mean? The westerly makes sense in my mind, to go to g1.

A

When you have 48 units on that land, yeah variances right right, it kind.

C

Of doesn't matter now yeah, you know it's already built out. They're condos.

C

If you keep the other one as mrb on the other side of hoover, it makes sense to have that not.

B

Being a non-conforming use anymore, so there is a logic to it. From a zoning perspective,.

B

From a zoning perspective, if you change the one that's highlighted now to mrb.

B

And then you look at if you keep the mrb on the northeast corner there, there is a logic.

B

To keeping that because then you'd have consistency across hoover, whereas that.

B

Stays as a non-conforming use, even though it's built out it's a non-conforming use.

B

So there's more logic to down zoning it to residential. So there's a the rationale.

A

What should we, how should we move forward to continue the conversation on that lot?.

C

I would just leave it.

B

I'd change, it uh gateway gateway, yeah that doesn't affect it, doesn't adversely.

B

Affect it at all, and it's more logical in the map to fit with everything else.

C

The question, so what would that uh allow say that owner to do if it were a gateway.

D

Without a variance very little.

C

So same as same as it is yeah yeah, the a lot is not very conducive to some of those things.

A

Andrew speak, the lot is just not very conducive to that, particularly with.

D

The amount of land they have- and you know what some of those uses demand.

C

I guess I'm ambivalent about that a lot or those two locks, so it depends.

B

A little bit on what way, what we do on the little lots, I think if the.

B

Little lot stay armor b, there's a lot more logic to making the big lot mrb.

B

In my mind, which lots just saying big lots, small lots doesn't help everyone in the south side of.

B

Hoover, if you're looking at the northeast side, keeping it mrb, then I think it makes sense to.

B

Change the south side of hoover and east side of lafayette to mrb, so there's consistency.

B

Isolated zoning like that little patch of orange, I hate to turn spot zoning, but it gets close and.

B

um It makes it more difficult to continue that, especially if they need slight relief.

A

Right so I mean I think it makes sense. I know the westfield is fairly new and.

A

Whatnot, but I think it makes sense to make it more conforming by changing it to the g1.

A

At this point that- and that would continue down from what's right next to it already.

A

And then it would make sense to continue that to those two lots. But.

A

I think that's subject to whatever this group talks about and wants to move forward.

A

Or which list to put it on, should we put a should we put it in the course I'll put this.

B

Outside, as changing in the north side is question mark for now is that okay.

A

So I'm just doing two different colors one that we'll talk more about and one that will.

A

Try to you know, put together a list that we really feel strongly about.

A

um Then we have she removed, 18., oh there's! Well, I have 19 20 and 21 are all industrial, so we talked.

A

About taking any industrial lots and putting them into a future comparison, so yeah and those.

E

Were the least results yep those lots right at the end, where we have so much g2 there already.

A

Which is why I put g2 for those: that's the uh the um glass company and auto repair places.

A

And we already talked about the church and how that srb should be definitely moved forward to a.

A

Change and then that brings us all the way down to where we have split the bypass in route. One.

A

Because everything else is gateway at this point, so slow down um yep right in that corner, there's.

A

A dentist office in the vacant land behind it, those two lots exactly that's 23 and 24..

A

Which are currently in office building and a vacant lot.

H

S of thoughts for vacant lots wow, it's owned by the church.

A

The church owns it, which church great, oh, the greek church.

F

Yeah, I'm okay with those.

C

So well gateway continue the conversation but put them on a positive list. Yep positive versus.

A

Negative keep looking at all right. uh Next was the car dealership, which so we go down the bypass.

A

At this point there was a car dealership that we talked about because it's an industrial and gra.

A

Which I think it's at the corner of um it's way down at cottage there we go right there on the.

A

Right corner of cottage, in the bypass that purple yeah that one: that's that that is number 25.

A

Foreign I get there eventually so that we, I remember when we were having our conversation.

A

We were like well, this just seems crazy that we have it it's partially in gra.

A

From that little corner right and then the rest of it's in industrial so and there's no industrial.

A

Really even around it, so I'm not quite sure how it ended up in industrial and that so that kind of.

A

Makes sense that it would go probably either to to the g1 yeah. All right that makes sense sounds here.

A

Are a lot of complaints about that one um then next was right across the street at the medical.

A

Office nope across cottage street yum. It was a gra, that's number 26, 185 cottage street and uh yeah.

A

We've talked about whether or not it made sense to leave that as um gra or if it made sense to.

A

Continue because we just were looking at the one across the street as changing.

B

I would change that yeah. There is a mechanism g1 or g2. I. I wasn't really.

A

Sure which one makes more sense, but we can continue that more in-depth conversation.

A

I'm just trying to make the list more manageable so that we can split them up.

A

um After that is we're talking across the street, the general business, that's where.

A

um We have the hotel, yep yep and we have general business, and that was one of the reasons why.

A

I added general business to our analysis so because I we have very little general business.

A

Left we actually used to have a lot of it downtown before we moved to the character district. So, as I.

A

Was looking at it, I thought: does general business really make sense anymore? I think we really should.

A

Probably look at the general business versus the gateways and see whether or not they're just so.

A

Similar that general business, because there's very few lots in our city that still have gv.

A

Designations, so I thought as a whole, we could take a look separately. Take a look at at that as well.

A

Anyone agree disagree. I think it makes sense to look at it like that, because general business.

B

Sounds to me, like it's more of a historic classification, it is because it was very.

A

Much our downtown was general business before we moved to the character districts and all of.

A

A sudden I realized, we still have some outside of downtown. That hasn't. I just think it's more of a.

A

Cleaning up to compare and see if um they're pretty equal, then it makes sense to move our.

A

General business that's going on over there, you can see it's around the traffic circle.

A

It's like pretty much the only place. I found it anymore. I'll do some more digging, but I.

A

Don't think I found it anyway, which is ironic, because you would imagine a traffic circles.

D

Be rudimentally the gateway to our city.

E

And a lot of these are residences here, right yeah, that is a little neighborhood and that's.

A

In general, business yeah, I did not put all of these for the record on this list, but I wanted.

A

To make sure that I mentioned as I was looking at it, I thought maybe we should separately.

A

Look at gb because then it also I did put on the list when it goes up. Yeah up along.

A

um That whole area there and those uh we kind of skipped the borthwick properties.

A

Yeah we have, those are all or yeah we have a bunch of or that um we can take.

A

A look at because we've already decided no alarm should be anywhere it's there. I guess.

C

Near the hospital, but I think the near the hospital, if you went to gateway.

A

There's more short-term medical uses that could actually also accessibility with the.

D

Exception of the liberty mutual parking lot is borthwick entirely built out at this point,.

H

I don't know, but the redevelopment happens sometimes too, so I think.

A

We have to think of it, not as whether or not it's built out, but.

A

Whether or not something else could change.

A

Our general business ones once we get down there.

A

Oh, I never moves. Oh yeah see, I did add the coakley road and all those general businesses.

F

Ones here I didn't think I did, but I did look at that. 33 34 35 37, I'm I'm smarter than I thought.

A

A

If yeah, if you want to go up this way, yeah, I I yeah all of those are the ones that are gb.

A

They're, like in the 32 to 37 kind of time frame, we go up the spalding turnpike we're at number.

A

38 and that's where we get general business and srv because 38 the mazda dealership it's 120, so.

A

Click on it, what's the address say it's 180, so it must be. You need to change that to sb for.

F

Skinny business skinny business: what's that one, that's 120.! So that's 38! Is that lot right. There.

H

Because it is general business, what is that? What's in that srb zone just beyond it, I think.

E

It's all was it a 300 foot power line; easement, that's right, yeah, it's mostly a power line.

A

There's almost nothing in there and probably never will be because of the power linesman.

B

A lot of it's wet too, I think, isn't it. There is a lot of wetlands in there as well.

F

Yep, it's it's fairly wet.

A

So, do we put that in the what category would you put that make sense or more discussion.

B

We're looking at all gb makes sense to talk about right. I think so. Yes are there.

D

Any other intermediary zones that would be more suitable for to transition from.

D

Gb to something else, and maybe that can be part of our conversation yeah about that.

A

Yeah because there's also 201 echo ave at 43, which is also gb.

A

Yep that tiny little one, which I think actually is a house, it's two units.

A

And then we at the the other car dealership is actually in gateway.

A

So then we actually moved to gateway all the way through that, and so then we back.

A

Into oriental gardens is where we go after the turnpike in the general business aspect,.

A

That's when we talked about um more office research and whether or not it.

A

Makes sense in these so on? Let me just back up on 200 smiling turnpike yep, where we.

C

Advocating changing the general business to one of the g ones or twos possibility, not the esrb's.

C

Portion of that lot, we don't have to change the srb portion. We could leave it srb. Okay, we were.

F

Going to look at general business as a whole is to see if what has currently general business.

A

Makes more sense yeah, so we can look at book it right now we're just talking. So we can look at.

A

Keeping it gateway and srb we could look at maybe gateway one and gateway. Two.

A

Power line he sent. No, I thought, were you referencing, the marine place, yeah right.

E

There's a there's, a 300 foot, power management that runs the so they're all split zoned.

B

Right computer, do you know if somebody wanted to redevelop that? Would it make a difference.

B

From a density, calculation for the zoning were changed right if only a portion of it was on.

E

Gateway, you wouldn't want to be able to use that portion that portion for the density, so it would.

B

Make a difference. So if the zoning changed like right, they could do more out front right.

A

All right you've got 30 minutes left as far as our goal goes, so we'll keep going down the list keep.

A

Going we're out on woodbury ave now, so we have the oriental gardens: um gosling road area, yeah.

A

Basically, all those properties you're looking at there, which are um all in office research we.

A

Pretty much have office research all the way down there and in the back into commerce way as well.

B

Should oriental gardens be purple or should it be yeah, it's uh oriental gardens really.

A

Shouldn't be office, research now, but that's what it's currently so that's why it makes.

A

Sense to try to change that to something we were talking about, changing things to gateway.

A

But maybe we look at, I don't know, make it what it is garden home, yeah yeah right [music] I mean it's.

B

Certainly an affordable type of housing yeah. It seems like a good thing. It would at least.

C

Be conforming well, no, I mean, maybe I don't think manufacturing housing is allowed and not permanent.

E

No manufactured housing parks are only allowed in gamh, which, which parcel is that, on our.

A

Oriental gardens is that big purple right there yeah, I know on the map now now I'm going to your.

B

List, oh my list, 44., okay, this isn't it nice. I numbered these, make life easier.

B

So if it became gateway that might mean to change the gateway to allow.

A

It'd be more conforming as gateway than it would be. Is office research, that's for sure.

B

That doesn't make any sense as office research other than it doesn't and what's the what's, the.

B

Out parcel, if that becomes what is it yeah right there? What's that one, that's or.

E

Is that on the list? What what is it it's 114, gosling yeah, I'm not sure what that is right.

E

um It's not on my list find that now it's um oh, isn't that the um propane, maybe right now.

E

Isn't that the gym? No, I think they're. This is, um I think, there's a gin, an indoor gym there.

E

A lot of isn't it like an industrial building fuel, there's a big a lot of trucks in that area.

B

Yeah there you go, I forget what's there, but uh that's across the street go buy. It.

B

Yeah and then uh here we go it's not on the list, we certainly could add it, but.

A

um Yeah, I would add that, and it's in the other one in the animal hospital.

E

On uh the animal hospital is 150.

A

A

Yeah, commerce, all the commerce way ones, are all office research which we can leave. If we are fine.

A

With that, we had started to talk about whether or not it made sense to take a look at those or not.

A

hmm I think there was that one lot, that's um behind oriental gardens, that's w-I-o-r and.

A

Or it's in both right there, I believe so yeah yeah see it's in the or and that lot.

A

um Which got parceled off of public service so.

H

It's all went down, it's got a good portion of it commerce way and oriental gardens.

A

So once again, do we want to take a look at all these office research to.

A

Leave them in office research or do we think they make sense? Looking at.

D

Goes back to my competing uses, thought okay, quite.

D

A bit of a heavy industrial over there on the river yeah.

A

Yeah right you're talking about the 38 that 38 acres, uh yes,.

A

So maybe leaving that one alone well, the office research, though, is uh if.

C

You go down portsmouth boulevard, 's housing. It does in a hotel. Yes,.

A

I'm pretty sure the hotel is definitely not allowed.

A

In office research, I know there was talk or taking those tanks down at one point.

C

B

Picking up what you said earlier, beth I'm thinking office, research, general business.

B

And gateway all need to be looked at together. I think, because of the conversation we're having.

B

And you know: do these zones fit and then we can see how they fit the ground as well, because some.

B

Slight changes that might make sense to maybe there's now three industrial zones or whatever.

B

We end up with yeah, we have two industrials now waterfront industrial and just regular industrial.

A

And office, research and general business.

A

Maybe there's just too many, and I think the last thing we really um started to look at was the.

C

um Yep one thousand market because it was in the or which has g2 right across the.

D

Street come on zooming in peter he's, zooming out I gotta zoom out first.

A

The other zoom.

C

Yeah, I guess that falls in the category of changing all of or to.

C

Gee right right, so it's it's an or that probably needs to have more discussion and talk about it.

A

And then the the right aid. For some reason. I put the right aid in here and I think it's because I.

C

Might be supposed to in the other end yeah it's right there at the corner: okay, nope! That's next.

H

Corner what is that? Is that oh yeah, that's it it's currently in so there's a little bit of mrb here.

E

And this has weird zoning and I think that's why I put it on the list because it seemed to be.

A

A split zone yeah, and that was why I was like there was some reason why I brought.

A

My attention to I was like well, maybe we should talk about that because it is split zone between.

A

Mrb and gateway, and it I'm not quite sure why it got splits in like that. Now it's a little.

B

Yellow in the corner I mean that's municipal: were there houses on that before? Is that one.

A

Street, I'm pretty sure on granite street. I don't think there's anything to the left. It might have.

C

Been one where the cvs is maybe, but what's rite aid got built, maybe rite aid? Is there.

A

I think it got rid of all of it, so I think just moving that all to the g gateway district makes.

A

um Sense, the g1 it's g1 and mrb, but I think just g1 makes sense for that. One.

A

We've made it to the bottom of that list. That's pretty amazing! So.

A

um We've changed the list a little bit and we've kind of put it into two categories: something.

A

That seems to make more sense and something that might need more conversation. So I can.

A

Split this up and that conversation can continue next time so back to our agenda.

A

We also had started to take a look at home occupations and home occupations. Obviously.

A

Home occupation, one and two we looked at last time and then peter was nice enough to get us out the.

A

um Some other jurisdictions- and I thought that that was extremely helpful to start to.

A

Look at some of those other jurisdictions and what they have in there and I'm just.

A

Wondering if people have any thoughts of like a direction of one specific other jurisdiction.

A

Or if you want to pull things from each of them and we can take a stab peter and.

A

I are pulling something together and what like? What you appreciate, don't appreciate, thoughts.

A

Provoking conversation, what's our goal of with the home occupation, to create more, uh we were.

A

Asked by the city council to take a look at home occupations for things like having um students.

A

Come a couple of students come for um whether it be art, lessons or music lessons or coding. Well,.

A

Just something you know tutoring of any sort of kind, um so we're because it's not allowed.

A

Really anywhere and to have people actually come to the home, and some of these give us.

A

Good ways of of looking at possibility of doing that, so that was where the conversation started.

A

And I think that looking at some of these other ones, some you know they they run the.

A

Gamut, that's for sure some are more way more detailed than what we have in our definitions.

A

And whatnot, so I just wasn't sure if there was a specific one that anyone sort of gravitated.

A

To as you like, the way it was set up or didn't I don't know, did you read it [music] [laughter].

A

To go through, I know I gave you a lot.

C

So, are we looking at tweaking our homework right and we were looking for other ideas and.

A

Direction to give us in which to go in as far as so we have rochester conquered manchester nashua.

A

Am I missing anyone.

A

Yeah, I put them in alphabetical order, so we have conquered, was the first one that's on here. I think.

A

You know minor home occupation is uh kind of makes sense. They go into a lot a lot of details.

A

I mean I think about my childhood. My mother ran a beauty shop out of our basement. All.

A

Of my growing up years right, that was something that was allowed for her to do, but I'm not sure.

A

That we allow that sort of thing now, because it requires clients coming and visiting the home.

A

And that's where we don't seem to have any allowances. First, things like that. So.

B

What do folks read these and send in notes things you like things, you don't like.

B

And then we can come up with a draft to work and compile, compile what you like from each.

A

One and what you don't like and then we can peter and I can work on a good idea.

A

A new draft, whether we completely ditch what we've looked at already and start with something new or.

A

Not okay. There are two uh details that I liked. I think this is conquered in the conquered version.

D

I, like the minor, verse major and I like under the major which it starts in page. One goes into.

D

Page two uh number: four: no more than four persons, maybe employed in the business use.

D

Only one of whom may not be an occupant of the residents, so that is a good limitation and then.

D

Under number 10. letter e use uses, which generate more than 20 vehicle trips per.

D

Day, based on criteria published in the latest edition of trip generation by the institute of.

D

That's a pretty good constraint, um I think, particularly for the use that you are describing.

D

um Which is not atypical and would I think, align with a lot of did portsmouth home-based.

D

Occupations, I actually like the fact that it it changes with the actual standard right if.

A

The standard changes it's following a standard that sometimes gets updated. So that's always nice.

A

um Anything any other comments or I'm happy to wait and take your written comments. If you want.

A

To put something together and get it back to me, I can ask the others to do that as well as.

A

Far, as you know, look at a specific jurisdiction out of all of these. If concord is the one that.

A

Everybody really likes. We can take a look at how adjusting ours to that or um if some of the others.

J

Okay, yeah all right, so you're gonna actually get us stuff.

D

I will well, I know particularly uh joanna, had some comments on that she'll be chairing the.

A

Next meeting, so you guys can have a deeper discussion about that when she's here.

A

All right, that's enough of that. We will wait for everyone to get back to us.

A

um We'll do a verbal update from howard, good, um so I'll take uh chairman if I may, out of order.

K

The agenda to go from uh we'll start at item four, with your update from the housing navigator, just a.

K

Reminder that the the deliverables purpose and um my role is, is grant based and under those grants.

K

uh There's there's two one which is to to create the um uh position in which I'm in now currently.

K

Under contract as the housing navigator, the second is the housing opportunity grants.

K

That that happened and under those grants, there's allowances for um regulatory development and so.

K

With the regulatory development, we are engaging uh rkg and they have started on their uh financial.

K

Market analysis, so we're going to have some updates um as they progress. We had a kickoff.

K

Meeting and uh they'll be coming up with some requests for information that I'll be providing.

K

Them and they'll be doing some outreach with market-driven entities in portsmouth and then.

K

Part of that also overlays, with some of the tasks that the this committee is undertaking and that's.

K

The public involvement plan uh I've had uh good to and very positive response for, a number of peeping.

K

People that I've been reaching out to fall under key informant interviews and I've accomplished.

K

About eight so far, I've done another four lined up next week and these informant interviews are being.

K

Done uh with a certain level of confidentiality where I gain one-on-one perspectives from them,.

K

uh It's a broad spectrum of people involved with housing in the city, and these will be disseminated.

K

Into information that will go forward with the public involvement plan and then the outreach.

K

That were tentatively scheduled for uh later in october and november. That hasn't been decided.

K

Yet we're finalizing efforts with a contract and scope and and who's going to be supporting in what.

K

Way that outreach with portsmouth listens so I'll have more updates about that at the next meeting.

K

Broad net, that's being done with the key informant interviews, is going to inform the.

K

The plan, it's also providing an opportunity for me as a housing navigator, to set up a network of.

K

People to speak with and already we're starting to get an understanding of what questions to ask.

K

um And and who to speak with as this network develops uh farther out, so, as I mentioned, there's.

K

Two grants: that's the the housing opportunity program, the other one is funding my efforts.

K

Which leads directly into item number three, which is the edu handbook, and that is progressing.

K

In terms of writing, we've engaged, uh as I mentioned previously, uh to architectural.

K

Consultants they're going to be providing product during this week and those products.

K

Are to help visualize what the black and white lettering of the adu zoning is to help homeowners.

K

That will be rolled into what I'm hoping to produce by.

K

The next meeting, which is a basically a comprehensive draft of the adu handbook.

K

My other efforts that are being done regarding the adu handbook having to do with adu applications.

K

Since the revised zoning for the adu was done, there's been an increase in traffic of people.

K

Coming into the planning department meeting with peter myself informally having discussions so.

K

There's right now uh peter- and I have meeting with somebody this afternoon, which will probably be the.

K

Ninth person that we've met over the last month and a half that's interesting, creating an adu.

K

We are anticipating another two adu units to come online in the next two to three weeks.

K

One is completion of their construction, so what I mean by online is the creation of a certificate of.

K

Occupancy as well as certificate of use, there's another one: that's in the pipeline, that is.

K

Bringing the non-conforming uh residential unit online, they need to bring it up to code so that.

K

One will be an issuance, but it will be conditional upon them meeting all the other required.

K

um Health and inspections in terms of adu, I want to bring attention to the land use.

K

Committee there's currently a house bill number 423 that is bring brought forth by.

K

um A member from the new market area and it's in committee under review right now and they're.

K

Actually discussing the ability or making a change of the current adu state-led statutory.

K

Requirements, uh instead of just having one adu unit they're, considering two on half.

K

Acre lots so uh I'm just making you aware of that and see what happens in the future.

A

Are they talking attached or detached, or by right? I do not know any more than they're, considering.

K

What if we do, if we do two adus so going with that question, it could be possible that there's an.

K

Attached that's interior to the building, and they want to create a separate one. It could be two that.

K

Are detached as well with the nine that are coming in meeting informally, it is a broad spectrum of.

K

People interested in converting space inside the house, adding on uh converting things that are in.

K

Their backyard, creating new ones in the backyard. So there's lots of interest and it's just not.

K

Specific showing up as just one adu type, it's a spectrum as well very much.

A

Anything else anybody wants to talk about before I open up public com.

A

Ment, um we will take public comment now if people would like to come up.

A

uh Just sit in one of the chairs to use one of the microphones.

F

You'll have to state your name and address about.

D

Your performance, because I can help you with that: okay, andrew.

L

At 32 boss, ave here in portsmouth and thank you.

L

For the opportunity to come and speak- and this is in relation to the home occupation and some.

L

Of the considerations, so we thank you and thank you to city council for bringing us.

L

Forward so I'm a newer resident artist and small business owner here in portsmouth. My.

L

Family moved here in 2021 for one primary reason really and it's the arts, in addition to it being.

L

A great community and I've actually been trying to get my home studio, approved to.

L

Offer small art classes to adults, children and individuals with special abilities, so I feel.

L

Very passionate about that and I've been trying to do that here in portsmouth since last fall.

L

So it's been quite a uh an endeavor, so after completing a program through the university of new.

L

Hampshire titled start your own arts and crafts business. They strongly encourage getting the right.

L

City town approvals, if you are considering offering art classes in your home studio,.

L

Or face the risk of consequences of getting shut, down or and or fined so clearly really glad to see.

L

That you're, looking at possible solutions also for the past seven months, I've been co-chairing the.

L

Portsmouth cultural plan subcommittee and we're currently working on a new cultural plan that many.

L

Of you are aware of for the city of portsmouth. I bring this up because in the last cultural.

L

Plan many portsmouth residents raised concerns, and these are exact excerpts that I took from the plan.

L

That portsmouth has experience in exodus. That's a key word of its artisans and musicians and.

L

There's a need to address zoning issues and building codes that are barriers for artists.

L

Including limitations on combined living working spaces and I know you're looking.

L

At that, which is wonderful and there's also a need to address affordable housing for artists.

L

So we know a lot of artists have left portsmouth, that's a fact, and we need to focus on ways to.

L

Attract and re retain them. The issue of artist displacements is not unique to portsmouth. It's.

L

An issue that many u.s cities are facing as well so much so that the boston globe actually just.

L

Published a pretty sizable article on this a few weeks ago, so I do believe by allowing artists to.

L

Teach small classes in their home studios will help address issues raised by many portsmouth.

L

Residents and help mitigate artist displacements, it will help bring the community together and.

L

Help address significant issues like isolation for kids and adults. So what we're talking here.

L

Is really the look and feel of inviting a small group of friends over for coffee or lunch? This.

L

Is not a big production? I see no disruption to a neighborhood in terms of what I'm proposing.

L

And if we look at other cities which thank you peter for pulling that in, I did review that. I.

L

Thought it was great to look at other cities across the state. I see some allowing four.

L

Pupils, I even saw one that allowed up to eight. I do believe somewhere in this range would be.

L

Good for portsmouth the current proposal- and I know just through some of the additions I know.

L

Right now, it's zero, but even the current proposal looking at two pupils or students or customers.

L

Or, however, we wanted to find them, in my opinion, would be inadequate, especially for our instruction.

L

And then current hours is another thing. I would just suggest that we look at right now for home.

L

Occupation, it's listed as eight to five pm and I don't believe that that accommodates working.

L

Adults or working parents trying to bring their children to art classes within the 8 to 5 pm time.

L

Range, could we consider longer hours, maybe just a few days a week and parking I know, is.

L

Certainly, an issue in a city like portsmouth: could we consider adopting language already in existence.

L

In the current portsmouth zoning ordinance amended may of 2023, and I have the section here.

L

10-1113-4-2, which already outlines acceptable parking for home occupation. Basically, I would.

L

I would be able to put it in my driveway as long as it's appropriately screened with the.

L

Right landscaping, I think that would be fine, there's also family daycare is allowed in in.

L

My zoning and I think most zonians across portsmouth, and there too, I think, there's.

L

Four spaces that are allowed, two of which would be for the homeowner. So I think we have some parking.

L

Language already in the current zoning that we might want to consider- and I just wanted.

L

To thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I think artists have been the lifeline.

L

For the city of portsmouth, it's why I moved here and I think it's by making some of these changes.

L

We can retain and attract artists to portsmouth moving forward. So thank you. Thank you. Anyone else.

M

Can I I'm gonna speak to this in my shoe, this is karen.

J

I'm a little nervous friends here, oh good, I still didn't bring my reading glasses just start with.

A

Your name and your location- and I wrote my thing down- is this on okay, so my name is sachiko akiyama.

M

Thank you for the opportunity to speak, I'm here to address the same issues that karen is speaking.

M

Of I am a sculptor and a professor at unh in the art department, I moved to portsmouth from boston.

M

Eight years ago to teach at unh, I was fortunate enough to buy studio. I mean buy a house and build.

M

A studio in my garage, I would love the option to be able to teach small classes in my studio.

M

During the years I've lived here, I've had artists, friends, move out of portsmouth to nearby towns and.

M

Cities that have more flexible zoning regulations are more affordable to make a living as an artist.

M

I know of artists who are looking for a place to live now and do not even consider portsmouth.

M

For similar reasons, two of my friends who are long, who were long-time portsmouth residents.

M

Moved to another town nearby to build a studio and teach classes from their home. The only way.

M

I am able to afford to live here is because I have a full-time teaching job at the university.

M

You might ask why a city would want to invest in attracting artists. If you look at the history at.

M

History and current times, artists and creative people move to a location like neighborhoods.

M

In brooklyn or the south end in boston, and they make it an interesting and unique. Creative people.

M

Are culture makers as I watch the real estate prices increase and all the banks, hotels and.

M

Luxury condos move into portsmouth. I worry that our city will become more generic and.

M

um Lose its uniqueness, I'm hoping hoping that portsmouth will consider attracting more ways.

M

Attracting more artists to the area, especially the younger generation, I think that measures.

M

The like the ones that karen was talking about, could also possibly help increase.

M

Racial diversity, especially on affordable of workspaces. Thank you. Thank you. Next.

J

Hi elizabeth grader property owner 159, mcdonough street. I do like the concord one because it has.

J

The minor and the major, however, you want to word them. I I live with a man who drives around and.

J

Sees opportunities where money could be made, we've had a lot of at-home businesses, they've ranged.

J

From used car sales to selling track selling um trailers out of our home on the waterfront.

J

Which was legal, we got a permit for it. Tractor trailers were able to be brought in to do this. I.

J

Was horrified needless to say, it no longer goes on, but when you're looking at home business, it.

J

Is wonderful to support the arts, but if the arts is a dance class that has quite a few children, I.

J

Used to drive my grandchildren to someone's home and there would be 20 cars parked outside before.

J

And after class the kids would get dropped off, then you would wait for the time for your class.

J

To start, then, you would leave you'd come back a little bit early because you don't want to.

J

Be late, picking up your kid in the dark and your those 20 cars parked in this neighborhood right by.

J

Their house, so parking is a big issue. Trucks are an issue. If you have a home office, you might have.

J

A small business where things are delivered in my case it was trailers. They came on 18 wheelers, not.

J

Little small, you know, trucks like the refrigerator is coming, but a regular 18 wheel because of the.

J

Typo, you have to have a forklift to take them off. Those are all normal parts of business, so.

J

I think when you look at business, it's great to look at something simple, like an art class.

J

um And think of maybe three people would be there or four, but then, if you think of a dance.

J

Class that I go to over at the dance studio in where there's over 100 people in my dance class.

J

That's a dance class, so you have to think about that there have to be limits on it. All this detail.

J

Is important, don't go without the details, because that makes for loopholes, and that makes for.

J

Questionable things, and you also want to make sure that you distinguish between what neighborhood.

J

They're allowed to go into so do we want to allow a home office that allows eight to ten.

J

People with a major thing in a gra or cd1 or that kind of stuff, so those are things I think to keep.

J

In mind in regards to the lovely list, the only so I've done this before, but on a very small scale,.

J

When they were rezoning, the area behind mcdonough street, I was the one who notified all the.

J

Neighbors of the zoning changes and what they look like. So it was very helpful to see on your list.

J

The one two three four five zoning, but the only thing that was missing, which I think would be.

J

Helpful for all because it seemed to be the conversation which g1 and g2 were not shown.

J

One of the things that I try to do when I make these kind of lists is I try to, and you can see.

J

It on this page, as I was reading through, I highlight only the differences. So if g1 and.

J

G2 are the same for all of these things. Then I really make a difference by either highlighting.

J

Them in a color or something that shows you what the difference is because I think that's the key.

J

Questions everybody had was what is the difference between g1 and g2 and or and industrial and those.

J

Would be really important to know um in regards to the houses that are that are on opposite of.

J

Lafayette, like the mrb, that's already been rezoned, where the veterinary office is on.

J

The I'm trying to think what number it was now. I have to look up the numbers, but I think that.

J

Should just say mrb because that's been used as that for for years, if not, it should be changed.

J

To srb, which is which is with the rest of that neighborhood, trying to find my list.

J

Some of the ones you mentioned are important. I think what I'm sorry. I forgot your name, what he.

J

Mentioned about industrial is very important if you drop off a child at the soccer field,.

J

In community campus- and you look up above, you is the plant- that's breaking up stones all day, long.

J

So the kids who are playing soccer are breathing all of that stuff. I thought. Oh, my god. This is.

J

Horrible, what do you do when you play soccer, you run and breathe in deeply and you've got.

J

This plant right above it that these kids are breathing, so I really believe that industrial.

J

And residential should be very carefully looked at in terms of do we want to allow residential.

J

Next, to very, very high-end, industrial, such as what you were showing down by oriental gardens where.

J

There's those tanks, whatever they have in them. I don't know and until they're out maybe leave.

J

That industrial, because you really don't want that kind of you- don't want to encourage that.

J

Kind of mixing of people living there there's a big difference between living under something and.

J

Just going there to visit to see whether it could be usable, so those are things I think should be.

J

Kept in mind, I like that you're going to modify the list. I can't wait to see the new and improved.

J

List, thank you for all the work that you guys are doing. I know how hard it was just to do.

J

The two neighborhoods on both sides of the pond and one small area compared to doing.

J

The whole city, so I appreciate all the work that's going into it. Thank you. Thank you. Next.

N

Morning picture huda, 280 south street, um I'm going to talk about the uh number one. The.

N

The rezoning, I guess the first question I would have to you when you're considering any of this.

N

um Is looking at the sides and what benefit it would give you for what your goal is if you're, if.

N

You just look at the sides and looking at some of the sides of these lots, um one point: uh 1.3 0.30,.

N

I mean, even if you combine some of these lots, are you going to get a benefit that you could do what.

N

Your intention here is going to be to do the next question. um I think a big, a big point that was.

N

Brought up by mr simonis, the infrastructure? That's surrounding these areas, especially the traffic.

N

Especially can can all of the infrastructure if you change it from one to the other.

N

um Specifically, even if you're considering industrial, I still think that's a great point.

N

But I think the infrastructure surrounding any of these should be considered. The next thing I.

N

Think the first thing I'm really looking forward to is getting the answer that um mr tillman asked.

N

On the taxes, you're you're talking here about other people's property and changing them and.

N

Hopefully, it won't be a surprise and they'll get a they'll get a different bill. I think that's one.

N

Of the first considerations that we should look at, and I was very glad that that was brought up.

N

um The other the last thing here is, I guess we need to answer the question.

N

Here are we just changing this to change it? Some of the some of the things on here are.

N

um Public, it's public service property, it's municipal vacant land. I mean it's good to look.

N

At some of this stuff and and open it up, but it also opens up of budding properties to having to.

N

Deal with other other issues- and I think the prime issue of that would be the westerly and.

N

um Elwyn park coming out to say, if you put apartments where they, where the old.

N

Veterinary clinic was it's going to really affect our traffic, and I think that goes back.

N

To the discussion that should be included here about infrastructure and who needs to use what.

N

And and how it affects what's currently there. um I thank you for doing this. This is a lot of work and.

N

um I hope hopefully um look forward to your next skinny down list. Thank you. Thank you. Next.

I

Hi, my name is eliza hewitt. I live at 726 middle road, um I'm just going to speak more from a.

I

Resident point of view, I I'm not a zoning expert by any means, don't even understand half of this.

I

But I'm willing to listen and kind of consider what you're talking about. um I guess my question.

I

Is what's the ultimate plan here um kind of piggybacking a little bit on what miss huda said.

I

um I thought we were talking having a discussion because I do come to all these meetings, so I do.

I

Kind of follow this, I thought we were talking about increasing housing, but it seems the.

I

Discussion today has moved into way more than than housing. So I I guess, I'm just a little confused.

I

About you know what the goal in all of this was, as I said, I don't know a lot about zoning, but.

I

I question how you're deciding to make these changes. um You know. Are you following some kind.

I

Of system is there a criteria here for considering these zoning changes? um I have to admit again as a.

I

Resident, it see all seems a little random. You know we're looking at this property. Oh, let's.

I

Change this to this, oh well, we could consider changes and it kind of feels like an eeny meeny.

I

Miny mo approach to zoning, um and- and so I guess you know getting back to that criteria like is.

I

Everybody on the same page here as to why you're making changes how you're making changes what.

I

You're considering in the changes, because you know as a novice here, it doesn't seem that way.

I

um I also have questions about at what point you're planning and hopefully you are to bring.

I

In the businesses and the residents who own properties in these areas for their thoughts.

I

um I thought that you had hired a housing person. It sounds maybe not like that. Considering what mr.

I

Snyder just went through, but I thought there was a consultant that was doing a lot of work around.

I

This housing and what's needed- and you know what portsmouth needs and looking at all of that and.

I

Don't you think they should be involved in this? If, indeed, the ultimate plan here was to look at.

I

Increasing housing, why aren't they sitting at the table? You're talking about a lot of zoning.

I

Changes at least it felt that way to me, I mean changing almost everything up and down. You know.

I

All of lafayette and then finally, as a resident I didn't put in a plug. I love having my businesses.

I

On lafayette road, I love being able to drive down that street and you know be able to take.

I

My my pet to the vet go to the bank. Do my grocery shopping stop into urgent care? If I need it, take.

I

My kids bowling, you know you can do it all right there. So as you're discussing how you're changing.

I

All of this zoning, I hope that the message is not being sent that you want to kind of force out the.

I

Businesses in favor of putting all this housing because you're still going to need businesses.

I

um You know in a city of 22, 000 people, you still need businesses and if you change everything to.

I

Housing- and you don't think about some of what's been talking- talked about the infrastructure.

I

Change, etc. um I I think that that you're not doing it with your eyes wide open. um You know.

I

Housing we need it. Everybody agrees that to that. But what are we sacrificing for that? I think that.

I

Needs to be much more of of a conversation here, so thank you very much. Thank you. Anyone else.

E

If you're on zoom and you'd like to talk, please raise your hand.

A

S getting raised, and no one else in the room um just to address a couple of things that were said.

A

uh The what's allowed in the gateway is part of that packet. It's just at the very end. The.

A

Two gateways are side by side. They are in there. I know it's brought up whether or not it was there.

A

um And I think that was: is there anything else.

A

uh We are, you know, this is just the very beginning of this conversation on all of.

A

These topics, there's obviously going to be a lot more outreach, but we have to start the.

A

Conversation somewhere, our overall goal when we were looking at this, is to make um we first.

A

Put in the gateway to get more housing, so we're just trying to figure out how to then take that.

A

Gateway and maybe possibly expand it a little bit and it's not to take away businesses it's to just.

A

Expand the flexibility of our zoning to be able to put housing in if people wish to add that to those.

A

Places where some businesses are so hello, hello, please state your name and address for the record.

O

It's jackie cali quits and I'm we jackie callie pitts. I live on bedford way.

O

In portsmouth, but I spend a lot of time right on route one, and I have to tell you that I don't.

O

Understand what the goal is for what you're doing, if you're going to expand housing? That's one thing.

O

But what you do on lafayette road needs to be done carefully. The one point I want to make is.

O

About 19 I'd like to make, but I just want to make one that this is an evacuation route and as you go.

O

To expand things on route 1. Has anyone taken that into consideration? That's all. Thank you very much.

H

Sorry anyone else have anything else. They want to say all right. Our next meeting is october 6th.

A

um I have asked our assistant mayor kelly to share it because I will be out of town.

A

I will try to listen in if I'm able to but.

A

um Otherwise, thank everyone for coming and I hope you have a great labor day weekend. Bye everyone.