City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Land Use Committee, 18 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: 2.18.2022 Land Use Committee

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2.18.2022 Land Use Committee

A

Okay, good morning, everyone we are ready to get going for our first land use committee meeting.

B

I thank everyone for coming here in this early rainy morning. um I would like to.

B

Welcome everyone, and I would like us all to go around the room and just say briefly who we are.

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What our involvement with the city is, and just to give an idea to all of us in the room, maybe I know.

B

All of you, but not everybody, might know each other, so I'm beth moreau. I am a city councillor here at.

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The city of portsmouth, a long-term planning board member prior to this, I'm also by day.

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A real estate attorney, I do residential title services, so I've had a lot of involvement, both.

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With the city and with real estate and with title and zoning and land use and all of that.

B

And this whole brainchild came about due to a conversation with myself and the mayor and a bunch.

B

Of initiatives that we'd like to move forward through the city, and hopefully this committee.

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Is going to be able to help make some of those recommendations.

C

I'm councillor rich blaylock, um I'm also on the historic district commission. um I own the old.

C

Fair landing restaurant in downtown portsmouth I've lived here all my life. I've lived in three.

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Of the five awards I'm pretty familiar with, um I also currently paint houses uh painting on sunset.

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Road today um and I coach football to high school in literally as well, but um yeah uh joanna kelly.

D

Assistant mayor, um I also own cup of joe. It's a cafe and um bar downtown, so workforce housing is.

D

Really big on my agenda because I'd like my staff to be able to live where they work, that's really.

D

All about me homeowner right, oh and I just bought. I just bought my first home in maple haven. So it's.

D

Now, everything's an additional 10 minutes to get anywhere.

E

So my name is corey clark. um I've been on the planning board with council monroe since 2016.

E

I am a professional engineer. I work for the state of new hampshire in the dam bureau.

E

Overseeing reconstruction of state-owned dams, I am I'm a father of three little kids, uh two of.

E

Which are in the new franklin district, one will be in the new franklin district in a couple years, so.

E

That's where I'm at I'm rick gellman, I'm a professional engineer and licensed land surveyor.

F

Also on the planning board uh chair, cory's vice chair.

F

I have uh I'm pretty plugged into land use both nationally and internationally the work I do.

F

Writing and editing form based codes, downtown enhancement plans that sort of thing.

C

I'm sarah lachance, I'm a member of the portsmouth economic development commission. um My day job is.

C

Working at liberty, mutual in our global cyber security organization and workforce housing has.

C

Been an ongoing topic uh since I've been on the edc since 2016 and even prior to that so very.

C

Happy to participate on behalf of the edc, more I'm craig welch, I'm the executive director of the.

G

Portsmouth housing authority we own and operate 605 apartments, uh rental apartments in the city.

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About 11 different properties and in june, we'll open our 12th property uh downtown, adding 64. new.

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Permanent, affordable housing units uh to the city and we've been developers and owners and managers.

G

uh Here in portsmouth, since 1953. we've been doing this for a long time, great and nick recknell, the.

H

Principal planner in the planning department and beverly, would you like to well say a few words.

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About yourself morning, everyone and I'm sorry, I can't be there in person, I'm flying to go see my.

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Daughter and my uh son today so, um but I'm glad to be here, beverly mesa. Then I'm the director of.

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Planning for city enforcement- great, thank you um both beverly and I have been uh working on an.

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Overview of land use, so I'm going to pass around actually one for you pass around this um handout.

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And if anybody I did make enough that there's probably enough members of the public that are.

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Here as well um and then I will let beverly kick off this and there are a couple of links that are.

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Within this um handout- and I have copies of those links and the information from that, if people are.

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Truly interested they can take one of those as well. um I can pass them around if people want, but.

B

Beverly, if you'd like to um just start with our overview that we talked about.

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um I don't know if you'd like to first uh address the the committee purpose council.

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Monroe that was approved by the city council. I think so that if you'd like to go over that.

I

Or I could read that as well? Oh I can. I can do that uh for those that have not heard me.

B

Say this 20 times, uh the purpose of this committee is to review all current zoning.

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And policies surrounding housing and development to encourage sustainable, diverse and affordable.

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Development, including expanded multimodal transportation, we are to report back to the.

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City council on recommended alterations to the zoning existing policies, along with any.

B

New zoning or policies to be considered important to furthering the city's goals.

I

Thank you. I I provided a little just a little bit of background information. I mean housing is a very.

I

Complex topic, I worked in housing in seattle uh on a couple different inter-jurisdictional.

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Teams uh writing housing policies for the seattle metro area, but I feel like I'm.

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Just really just beginning to learn about housing, but in the henna I provided to you.

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It does provide some definitions, or at least attempts to provide a definition about what.

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Affordable housing is- and this is really there's no actually fixed definition, but essentially.

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We tend to talk about. Housing uh is based on how much affordable housing a community has, and that's.

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Typically, based on the area median income, what people are spending for housing and for folks.

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Who are spending more than 30 percent of their income based on the area? Median income and their.

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Earnings, that's considered a cost-burdened um segment of the population, those who are spending.

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More than 50 percent of their earnings on housing and housing related that includes utilities and.

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Housing-Related expenses are considered severely cost burdened and that's typically a way that we.

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Tend to sort of segment out the housing needs for the region. New hampshire has passed a workforce.

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Housing law that basically um sets a standard for jurisdictions to provide housing uh for a certain.

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Ami segment uh for uh rentals uh they've defined that um as um it would need to be affordable to.

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A household with an income of no more than 60 percent of the area, median income, and then I.

I

Believe for um uh ownership, it is uh up to, I think it's 80 to 100 percent of the area, median income.

I

For a four-person household, so these are sort of the targets that the the state has provided for us.

I

um When I first started talking to councilman about this- and she mentioned all the folks that.

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She'd, like in you know, involved in this group, uh we started to talk about maybe a broader.

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Range and um of housing, not just that, addresses those folks who are maybe in the 80 to 100 the.

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Work typical workforce up to 100 ami, but maybe those folks who are earning um less than that.

I

And there's some examples: uh I put up what that number needs for portsmouth and uh for portsmouth.

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The portsmouth rochester hud metro, fair market area. This translates uh for renters to fifty three.

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Thousand um five hundred and seventy thousand that would be for renters at sixty percent ami and for.

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Homeowners at a hundred percent uh would be about 90 uh 99 000 a year, but I'm sure that many of you.

I

Would recognize that there are many folks who make considerably less than that, and so in in light of.

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The fact that the workforce housing is a specific area that we potentially can use market tools for.

I

uh There is a lower ami group that many of you are experts in that we might want to consider this.

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Discussion as well, I provided a slide that I have used before, um and that is um also in your packet.

I

And this was a slide that I had used to talk about this when I was in redmond and it basically just.

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Breaks down really the strategies that work within each of those uh those target areas. uh The first.

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Box of that slide, that has all the buildings in it. um uh That basically just explains that.

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Affordability must be underwritten, um it lowers project revenues and the return.

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For developers, uh construction and land are the major cost components of housing, but there are.

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Very few opportunities to limit uh the costs, and so when housing is made affordable, it lowers the.

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Project revenue that's needed for debt service, it lowers the project revenue that.

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Is uh the return on investment the developers get and sometimes that will tip it into.

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um An area where they don't want to develop because they want to make sure they get that roi.

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Based on the investors, and so we really want to basically really understand.

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What tools we can use to keep to get some market rate housing? I mean some markets of market. I would.

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Say delivered housing and then also the market supported housing, which is a lower ami level. So.

I

If you look at closing the gap, that is the basically the gap in revenues that is created by.

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Affordability, there is some tools that are available on the um on the municipal side,.

I

And that's the side that I think some of us are really ready to roll up our sleeves and start.

I

Working on- and this is the regulatory side- this is the side that works with the market understands.

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uh What the market, what essentially developers, uh will respond to in terms of an incentive package.

I

We can't require that they do it. We have to sort of combine carrots and sticks together.

I

And I think the you know the carrots become density height um and if they want to get it, they.

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Have to provide workforce housing, we have some incentives and I think nick can talk to you about.

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A little bit more about why those aren't working, but developers are not choosing that.

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Because they're looking at their total, uh how the project pencils out and they tend to choose.

I

Other incentives that will allow them to get the density, and that is something that's going to need.

I

To be changed and potentially changed my area in town, because the markets are the market prices and.

I

Land prices are a little bit different, but the tools that are available on the regulatory side.

I

And these tools typically work with the market to try and get the market to provide that that.

I

um uh That housing and that tends to be within the 80 to 120 ami range, because the market can still.

I

The offset that's that that they lose with the affordability they can potentially make.

I

Up in density, because the difference is not so great. Typically, I think on ownership units.

I

The difference becomes a lot greater, but um they we can usually sort of create that.

I

A balance there where they're still going to come in and uh and the incentives to get the.

I

Density in the height becomes great enough that they offsets the uh the requirement or the.

I

To provide workforce housing, land use incentives, as I mentioned before, uh density bonuses. These.

I

Are all tools buy right density is another way to deliver housing. It's a great tool in jurisdictions.

I

Where the market may not be quite as strong as um portsmouth, because just adding houses.

I

A lot of times in a lot of communities in new hampshire would address the issue of the workforce.

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Housing crisis because the land values the cost of construction, all pencil out to a deliver. A house.

I

At the 80 to 120 ami level in portsmouth, I believe that we have been adding density to very fairly.

I

Robust speed, I know that um that those of you on the planning commission know that this is true.

I

We're adding a lot of housing units nick has some good data on that about how we've almost um you.

I

Know in the past few years, we've upped our housing production by three times. We are a community that.

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Allows density, but it is not still not delivering uh the workforce housing that we want uh expedited.

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Review and park reductions all become things that that essentially lower project costs and allow for.

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That affordable the opportunity cost that's lost by providing affordable housing to be.

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Made up by the developer in the supported market side, some of you are better experts than I am.

I

In this- uh and this would be targeting lower ami groups um that do make less than 50 000 a year, but.

I

Really are vital to the community in terms of the uh the the jobs that they perform and uh what they.

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Bring to the community in our businesses, and also for, I think, uh younger members of the community.

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That we're trying to attract often will be looking for those uh those entry-level opportunities.

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uh Things that are available there, fee waivers public funding or land contributions and then.

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One tool is alternative compliance funding, and that is basically uh when we require the market.

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To deliver affordable housing for density, and they say well we'd, rather just pay into a fun.

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um It's a tool that is should be used. You know with uh strategically and carefully, because.

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It prevents that integration throughout the community, but it's a tool, that's available.

I

And then low-income housing tax credits there's some federal opportunities. There.

I

um I'm I'm sure craig and many of you could speak to a whole host of things that are at this.

I

Supported market side um so in in light of the fact that we have really two separate buckets.

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uh We um councillor moroni talked about really. Is there a way to break the committee up into.

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um Into two, uh maybe a regulatory side, that's working on city regulations. That really will.

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Work to try and understand how we can make you know really make the market deliver more. We can't.

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We can't require it in other states, we can say every you know that every time you construct.

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More than 10 units you're going to have to have 10 affordable. That is something that's allowed.

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In some states, not in new hampshire, so we have to kind of combine, uh combine some carrots and sticks.

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Together- and that would be the regulatory side and then the other side would be a side that works on.

I

uh Land contributions, city funding, a fee and lieu fund which could be converted to a housing trust.

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Fund which I understand we have established and then other other federal uh tools. That would add.

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To that capital stack that would allow um some affordable housing to be created at uh at the.

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60 or potentially even lower uh side, and so this is kind of the thinking as we started to tackle.

I

There's a lot of work within these two categories. I am not the subject matter expert in either one.

I

Of them, but look forward to learning a little bit um about both and I'd like to just kind of.

I

Ask uh councillor morrow to kind of take it from here and talk really about.

I

uh Next steps, the structure and then what we hope to achieve in the near term.

B

Thank you very much beverly. um We. We have done a lot of thinking around this and a lot of talking.

B

Around this I've kind of given myself sort of some initiatives that I want us to do and I think by.

B

Put splitting us into two working groups that when we come back together to give, I think, we'll get.

B

More work done. That was the theory behind doing that. So that's why we both beverly and I plan on.

B

Participating in both groups so that there's some continuity between and not any overlap, and we can.

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Ensure that, but that is our goal- is to be able to have, because there's going to be a need for.

B

A lot of research and a lot of looking at what we have and where we're going and looking at the.

B

Data and making sure it's going to take us in the right direction. With that said, um I really.

B

You know, I I think I see the sort of supported market group as being also the group that would.

B

Take a look at all city-owned property and see what availability we have with what city-owned.

B

Property we have, and you know how we should use that property to basically further our goals as.

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A city council we've put together an initiative of goals, and this entire committee was basically.

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Born out of those ideas that came out of that specific um strategic planning day so that.

B

City-Owned property would be one of them. The other thing that group is going to look at and I sort of.

B

See this as sort of a longer term is we have some new initiatives on the state level that are in.

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Sessions right now, and one of them is a bill that they're calling sort of a community toolbox. But.

B

Part of that bill talks about housing, opportunity zones which gives incentives under 79e and there's.

B

I still am learning a lot more about that, but that's one of the things. I think that group.

B

Can really dig into and see whether or not that's something that would be an opportunity for us.

B

Under an economic development portion of being able to really try to make sure that.

B

We're giving the most incentives that would get developers to be able to you know give us the the.

B

Housing that we really need and at an affordable price. So those are the kinds of things that I.

B

Think they're going to look at. I also want the regulatory side to take a really deep dive into.

B

Accessory dwelling units is one of my top priorities for that group to look at. I was.

B

There, when we created all of that zoning- and it was, I thought we did a pretty darn good job to get.

B

It started at this point. I think we can look at what it's created and what it hasn't, and I think.

B

We could really take a deep dive into whether or not certain adus if you meet our criteria or.

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Whatever that criteria, we finalize that we feel is correct, could actually be by right, so that you.

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Wouldn't have to go before the planning board for a conditional use permit if you actually meet all.

B

Of the criteria in a list, so that's one of the things I'd really like them to and that's one.

B

Of the things I'd like us to be able to within 30 days have recommendations to the city council to.

B

Go back to planning and then back to city council in a big giant circle, um some of the other things.

B

That we want to look at is strengthening the incentives we when we first looked at.

B

The north end zoning we worked really hard to try to find a way to create.

B

Green space and workforce housing- all that's given us- is community space and not a ton of green space.

B

So I think we have to take a deep dive into what community space looks like and I think.

B

We need to basically require workforce housing, maybe instead of community space, but I don't.

B

Know I don't have the answers, I do know a lot of the issues and where they lie and what I can.

B

Point the certain groups to look at um also, if you're going to provide us one of the other things.

B

And and if I say something out of turn, I'm sure nick and beverly can help me out with this. But.

B

um One of the other things I thought we could also look at is uh whether or not we could streamline.

B

A process if you're going to give us you know a certain percentage of workforce, housing, affordable.

B

Housing, whatever we want to call it, can we then somehow streamline the process through.

B

The boards to be able to make it a quicker, less expensive process, so that's something that can be.

B

Looked at as well through, I believe, the regulatory side, I think, really needs to take a look at that.

B

um Yeah uh yeah: how do we promote through zoning more micro units? They don't have to be downtown.

B

They could be in and around. I was excited to hear one of the projects that we looked at last.

B

Night does have a bunch of studios, at least they might not be micro units, but they were a bunch.

B

Of smaller units, but they also went up to three bedroom units, so mixtures of housing. It would.

B

Be nice to see a whole lot more of that, because, especially not it doesn't all have to be in the.

B

Downtown core: we need to look like the gateway zoning actually started, and that was through the.

B

Housing policy that I passed out for those of you that don't know that was initiated into the.

B

City back in 2016, and that was when we started the gateway zoning. They sort of opportunity.

B

The opportunity to have these little villages of mixed residential and commercial all on corridors.

B

Such as the route, one lafayette route- and it has it- created the west 10 yards, which has brought.

B

A lot of units- it's you, know, created sort of the portsmouth green. It started all commercial and has.

B

Added residential and soon to add, more residential, so that's kind of going based off of that.

B

So those are the kind of things that I think that we really need to take a look at.

B

And I would like to get feedback both from nick who, I know, has been taking a deep dive.

B

In and whether or not I have missed anything, you might already be thinking about or looking at.

B

These are the things on the top of my mind, but I would like to hear from everyone as far.

B

As what they feel their add-in to this can be and where they feel they see themselves.

B

Helping us- because I do have some pretty lofty goals of some initial things, like the adus, the.

B

Incentive programs, all of that I'd like us to be able to give recommendations back within 30.

B

Days beyond that, I think we then have to start to take some of the things that will take a little.

B

Bit longer to look at and see where we go from there so nick do you have anything to add to that.

C

um Not to put you on the spot or anything, but I'm gonna ask everyone. So no those are lofty goals.

H

Maybe a lofty timeline um yeah! It's it's a complicated endeavor we're on here. um We have.

B

A lot to speak close to the microphones or the people on the recording won't be able to hear us.

H

So I guess maybe sticking with the housing theme, because obviously it's a land use committee and.

H

There's a whole raft of non-housing-related stuff yep. I think we need to talk about.

H

And we can't yeah right right. I want to make sure somewhere that fits into the timeline.

H

And an understanding of what 30 days right right, what we're doing on the whole environmental piece.

H

Wetlands buffers resiliency design review, which is indirectly related, in my opinion, to housing.

H

I think we, I think we need to be cognizant of all the interrelated parts of getting housing.

H

Approved and going through the permitting process and not um not fail to recognize.

H

That some of the housing were, in fact approving with these big numbers, were over 300 units a year.

H

In the last five years and over 90 percent of its high density stuff, that's three to five stories.

H

A third of it's in the gateway, a third of its downtown, a third of its in the west end that area.

H

So most of our housing is high density. Most of our housing is in the urbanized areas.

H

Which is all good infrastructure exists. We're generally dealing with redevelopment projects, not.

H

Greenfield development or green development of land that hasn't previously been developed.

H

I I think, recent trends to sort of buck that progress, if you will for housing production.

H

Is related to some of these indirect impacts that need to be at least talked about and addressed.

H

For the design scale massing location, uh how well we're actually producing the project.

H

Is I think, generating a good degree of acrimony out there, uh which is not.

H

Lowering the cost of development through the appeal process. More recently,.

H

We've got over 300 units under appeal, they're, not under appeal for all bad reasons. There's.

H

There's some valid concerns there that need to be addressed that maybe aren't obvious.

H

So I think it's going to be important for us in trying to at least maintain the housing.

H

Production we've attained in the last five years, let alone improve on it, that we recognize there's.

H

A healthy contingency of residents that don't like the way we're growing, not just the rate.

H

We're growing the way, we're growing and it's easy, I think, for a lot of us to assume it's kind.

H

Of nimby-ism or it's a it's a rate problem, it's change, yeah, there's a piece of that, but there's.

H

A qualitative piece that I think is valid and we need to explore that a little more.

H

It won't be the same on every project. It won't be the same in every neighborhood or part of.

H

The city, but I think it's easily overlooked because it's also the hardest thing to solve.

H

So uh so I think these indirect pieces of design review outside the historic district sounds like.

H

A scary term, but we have none. So what we get is what we, what the market offers uh we we have very.

H

Little design control corey can speak to that. The planning board is horizontal construction.

H

95 of the constituents in any city or town don't understand that they don't understand. It's really.

H

Utilities parking it's it's the stuff that matters a whole lot less than what you put on top of that.

H

Land and how it integrates with the surrounding properties and the context of that neighborhood.

H

So I do think there are regulatory amendments we can make to improve the planning board's ability.

H

Outside the historic district, to have some modicum of review as to what comes.

H

Out of the ground on the site, because I can't believe that isn't creating some of the anxiety.

H

And resistance to more of that happening. Similarly, you look at cinemagic the recent project so.

H

There's no design review on that, whether you like the building or not it's it's very contemporary.

H

It's very bold, uh but ninety percent of the ground floor is parking. You know, there's a whole and we.

H

Can't really get to that with the existing code um and that's not the most effective way to activate.

H

A neighborhood, so I don't want to get down into the weeds, but some of the things on my list.

H

Are you know, dealing with site plan review standards dealing with infill design guidelines.

H

Even in the historic district, the level of anxiety or acrimony is no less heightened.

H

Outside the district than in we've got problems on both sides, I think with the hdc and their ability.

H

To get their arms around these redevelopment sites, most of the appeals are in the historic.

H

District dealing with similar issues, you know building height little things like backfilling.

H

To create an extra story, uh that's a big annoyance for a lot of people and it's it's a way for the.

H

Development community to somewhat game the system, but it we're the ones with the pen. So if we don't.

H

Fix it, we kind of deserve to get it, but that's certainly adding to the list of concerns from.

H

Residents as to buildings being actually artificially taller than what the code.

H

Anticipated I talked about wetlands buffers how we're how we're going to either continue to.

H

Interpret that code or change that code will have an impact on where development occurs.

H

I think we've got really weak regulations outside our urbanized areas to deal with.

H

Housing design layout everything you know, if you look at the stuff we've been approving.

H

Because our codes haven't been updated in decades along beverly hill road, whether it's banfield.

H

Peverly, it's stuff that you would have expected to see in the 1950s for a design and that's really.

H

Disappointing, I think, for the people approving them, let alone the people that.

H

Will look at them, but nobody lives there, so they tend to be, and people are a little bit.

H

Fatigued from you know which projects they can actively participate in not being in a butter. So.

H

I think we need to look at all our incentives and and disincentives carrots and sticks in the pud.

H

uh Ordinance that we have that again is decades. I think, since it's been touched, we don't require.

H

A yield plan, you know we do, but we don't. You know, I'm looking at you guys because you're on.

H

The planning board, but the stokel property was, you know to me an embarrassment that we had that.

H

Kind of process that kind of ordinance where the developer uses a formula to generate the.

H

Base density, rather than a yield plan of what would regularly go on the property if you just.

H

Did a conventional subdivision it more than trebled the amount of units that were allowed.

H

On the property, by using an algorithm that that doesn't really look at the constraints on the site.

H

Versus a yield plan, which is more typical for the last two decades in most cities and towns,.

H

So that you know you don't find these things sometimes too you're actually staring at one.

H

In the face- and then it's too late to change it for the particular project, but we can't forget.

H

To do these post-mortems and go back and make adjustments. Similarly, I think the adu, the the adu.

H

Definitely has room for improvement, it's also complicated and I think we need to be careful.

H

We don't go too quickly that we overlook the harder uh components to adjust like the design.

H

And the fit it's not simple: to put houses behind houses in established neighborhoods.

H

It does have a profi, you think the tree fort was hard. The last week.

H

Imagine putting you know these garden cottages and carriage houses and such in the backyards of.

H

Existing houses, which is typically the only degree of privacy for the entire neighborhood.

H

Is the rear yard their houses are close to the street they're close to the neighbors on the side.

H

The rear is really important, I'm not suggesting we can't do it, but we need to recognize that it's.

H

Not simple, you just can't start plunking housing units, regardless of what they look like and play a.

H

Numbers game with the size of the unit, the height of the unit and the distance from something and.

H

Start plunking them either as of right or with a lower bar in neighborhoods that are going to have.

H

Profound impacts, if they're not well designed on their abutters, which I think will lead to.

H

A backlash and then we'll be unwinding things, so I think we just portsmouth is such a great.

H

Urban environment, you know for the overlooking some of the suburban and rural components of it.

H

It's largely an urban city, and it's well designed and it's well designed because it was designed.

H

Before any of these rules went into effect and before cars took over, you know our lives, our life.

H

So I think all the solutions are out there. We we just need to be cognizant.

H

The physical solutions are out there. We need to make sure we calibrate our regulations.

H

To respect that fabric, respect that that land use pattern and then I think we'll be successful.

H

And we'll have less of this negative feedback that we're just all about numbers.

H

And volume, because that we're not actually achieving our goals when we create 300 units.

H

A year and 200 of them are under appeal and 100 of the 200 never get built. Because of that.

H

You know that's the direction, we're somewhat headed here and I think we need to be very.

H

Cognizant of where we, where we're sitting, we did a lot. uh You mentioned 2016 with the gateway zoning.

H

We've had over 700 units approved in the gateway areas. Some of those are under appeal, but there.

H

Are these things take time to get approved and then get financed, get built, get finished.

H

And I, like most of you, have no idea what the residents actually think of the west end yards.

H

What they think of chimberg's project at hannaford, you know, I think we need to have a.

H

Better understanding and they need to be built and finished before and yet there's some acclimation.

H

Factor that people need for the change, but it's important to know what people actually think about.

H

What we're doing to understand how we go forward, but anyway, I I don't disagree with you at all and.

B

I think bringing in the community on different aspects of what we're going to look at will be.

B

Important, maybe not stuff we're doing immediately, because there'll be small changes to just try to.

B

Tweak things, but as we take a look at some of the stuff you're talking about and some of the.

B

New legislation and how that could affect us. I definitely think we need to have a conversation.

B

About where you know how we want to engage the community and how we want to have that discussion.

B

But I want to let everyone have a chance to speak. So if counselor blaylock would like to give us his.

B

Thoughts um yeah, I think, from just hearing these thoughts. I think I'd be probably more useful on.

C

The regulatory subcommittee um just being in the htc, um you know looking at land, use incentives.

C

um I mean all the below this listed here, the parking reductions um I mean I've lived in ports.

C

I've rented, I now own a home. um You know I grew up obviously, with my parents, home and I've I've.

C

Witnessed you know what it's like to grow up in portsmouth, what it's like to have kids and have.

C

Them try to buy a home in portsmouth. um Most of my friends. Don't live in portugal anymore. Most of.

C

My friends have had to move out to greenland or surrounding areas, um but I think that's where I.

C

Would probably add more value great, um so I would say the supported market subcommittee um really.

D

As beverly mentioned and as listed here, um the alternative compliance funding- I think you know.

D

As a council, and it's as myself, um I'm always looking at ways that we can not only build more.

D

Affordable apartments, but help people you know, buy, buy first-time homes or buy homes in general.

D

um And for me the fact that you know our house and trust is pretty pretty empty. I I'm always.

D

Trying to think about alternative fundings and ways to do that. um So I would say: I'm pretty.

D

Much in that wheelhouse excellent, mr clark, thank you um yeah. I would say, probably uh for myself.

E

Would be regulatory subcommittee um just because of the fact of just my experience on the planning.

E

Board, you know seeing these adus come in front of us um and the issues that a lot of them have in.

E

Trying to get you know a square peg in a round hole um with our with our current current zoning.

E

um Same with the uh you know, workforce versus community space- I mean we're. We always see the.

E

Projects come in front of us and we're always hoping for workforce, but it's ultimately always.

E

Community space and it's poor community space, but you know it's it. They are meeting the the intent.

E

um And then I think, uh like nick was alluding to you know by the time. A lot of you know there are.

E

Some initial reviews, but you know ultimately a lot of the stuff.

E

um It's it's almost too little too late by the time. You know we we're looking at finals um site.

E

Plan review that sort of thing where it's like you know, I understand the concerns of the the.

E

uh The public, when they're speaking to us, but you know ultimately they're meeting the uh the meeting.

E

The zoning as as it's written so um dealing with that, obviously there's yeah, there's other little.

E

I don't call them loopholes, but basically they kind of are where you know developers do different.

E

Things to uh to meet that zoning, which um you know on face value, it looks like I don't know.

E

How they're getting it to the public? It looks like you know: how are they getting this through.

E

But once again, they're they're meeting it and then obviously the wetland issues. You know the city has.

E

Wetlands everywhere, um but I think we and up until now, we've never really looked at.

E

You know commercial versus residential and when I say residential I mean like single.

E

Home residential, you know, there's never been any differentiator between the two, and so um I think.

E

uh You know the issues we see with big commercial, um big residential going in and wetland impacts.

E

You know they're following the same sort of rules that uh you know a single family um homeowner is.

E

Following when you know their entire house is in the wetland buffer, so um I think those issues.

E

Need to be looked at as well, I will say you know supported market subcommittee um if, if need be,.

E

To jump over, um you know the whole idea behind city owned property and the the feasibility of.

E

You know, is this a buildable lot or not? You know just just the knowledge of what the.

E

Various issues might be, I could certainly bring to the table as well. So thank you, mr shellman.

F

This is a lot a lot of interesting interwoven topics. Here, I think what nick was saying. I.

F

Think I add a word not be quality to the design process and they're. There's not a.

F

They're not disassociative, you know you can have affordable housing and still have quality design.

F

And I think that's one of the reasons that there's been some pushback for some of the.

F

Projects and why we have some appeals pending that people have seen things they didn't like.

F

Developers follow rules and also nick said: we have the pen. So if they're doing things.

F

That people don't like, maybe those rules- need to be changed, which is why we're here.

F

And I've seen a lot of different ways of doing it. I don't know if we're supposed to select.

F

I guess we are, I think, given my experience, the regulatory side would probably make a lot of sense.

F

um Another part of this that it came up last night at a planning board meeting. But it's also a big.

F

Big topic and that's transportation. Transportation is very expensive and in some communities.

F

And I've worked in places like jackson, hole in nantucket and other places that are super high.

F

End where the workers cannot live anywhere nearby.

F

Some of the workers in nantucket fly in every day. You can imagine that um yeah, so you know there are.

F

There's a lot to look at and I'm I'm wondering I know there would be there.

F

Will be public outreach by the time this gets to council for conversation with with you folks.

F

But I wonder if it makes sense to also have some outreach to some of the developers.

F

To get some feedback, you know: where are the stumbling blocks? What has prevented you from doing.

F

What we thought we were doing with this workforce housing element, but you haven't done it. You gave.

F

Us four trees. We wanted four units, um I'd love to hear what that is, and for the 30-day thing I think.

F

Back to my quality design component, I think there there's probably at least two tiers of.

F

Development here there's the what has been historically a single-family home in portsmouth.

F

That might be able to fit an accessory devil unit if it's done appropriately, and I would see.

F

Creating a set of regulations where that could be done so expeditiously. They don't need to hire.

F

Hardly anybody, maybe just their builder and a surveyor to make sure the boundaries. Okay.

F

Then you've got the upper level things. You know the bigger projects where it's the whole design.

F

Team you've got architects and engineers and landscape architects and the whole.

F

Panoply of professionals that we see much more sophisticated, they will pick apart.

F

Things we can't even dream about yet but, like I said they follow the rules, so I think.

F

The short term getting those few units here and there may be an easier regulatory hurdle.

F

And the the more complicated ones, I think getting some feedback from from some developers and also.

F

I can do some outreach to some other people. I know around the country and I know beverly.

F

Certainly has a lot of experience on the west coast and she has a lot of contacts.

F

So I think, bringing those things together can help help with this great yeah, and it is actually um my.

B

Hope I've actually started to invite different people that I've been meeting along the way.

B

uh To come and talk about different things uh so yeah we I, if there's other people that you guys.

B

Want to hear from I'm trying to bring in sort of quality people that have done different things for.

B

Instance, the economic development director from exeter I've heard him speak a few times for any of.

B

You that may have not heard him speak and he they put in some really sort of interesting twists on.

B

How they were trying to promote workforce housing so he's willing to come and talk to us. um Sarah.

B

Reitzman and the new hampshire housing is willing to come and talk to us about a lot of the housing.

B

Opportunity zones and the 79e stuff that's going through the legislature right now and depending on.

B

Whether or not it gets put through they'll come and give us they're putting together right now for.

B

Municipalities, a toolkit of brochure, so to speak, of how all of those things work. So anyone that you.

B

Think might be useful to us. um Please come right ahead and let me know because I'd be more than.

B

Happy to reach out to them and get them to come and speak to this group. One quick question: um the.

F

Regional planning commissions, I know obviously you're a representative there- are they doing.

F

Or what are they doing on this topic right now? uh They are in the midst. Every regional planning.

B

Commission throughout the state is in the midst of doing a housing assessment. Through this whole, this.

B

First year, um they've started it, I think, last month, or maybe the beginning of this month,.

B

So by the end of this year they hope to have a housing assessment of the entire state done. The.

B

Details of that are forthcoming, but they are are working on that as we speak councilman I know they.

I

Are also working on developing a dashboard that will be kind of a monitoring tool and um they had.

I

Asked me, and I shared the dashboard that we were subject to in seattle and this morning, they'll.

I

Be meeting with the architect of that dashboard, um janet lee who works for king county in seattle and.

I

So they're looking at not just identifying the need, but like a monitoring tool going forward.

B

Yeah so hopefully the state will set that up. So all the commissions as they get their data can.

B

Actually put it into this dashboard, so people can actually access it more quickly. We hope.

B

Great and legit yes, um so I'd be interested in the supported market subcommittee um in all.

C

Of the surveys and the feedback we've we've received from nancy carmer from an economic.

C

Development perspective that, having places for workers to live that is in close proximity to.

C

Where businesses are is important for businesses deciding to either locate or expand in portsmouth.

C

I'm also interested in the transportation aspect as well. I think that has to be part.

C

Part of the the solution- and I I don't know if there are opportunities um similar to the film.

C

That we saw on tuesday night at the music hall around large employers, incentivizing housing and.

C

Being part of the solution, I I don't know from a parcel size or an employer size if we have those.

C

Opportunities, but I think that's something to look at and the the last thing is, I think you know the.

C

Community input is going to be key because it's the public and the citizens of portsmouth that.

C

Are going to come and speak out in support of or against policy or items that come before these.

C

Boards, so it's really about belonging, you know: do people feel like the city as it's developing still.

C

Welcomes them, if they're a resident here or if they want to move to portsmouth, is there.

C

A place for them here, so I think we really have to connect this sense of belonging.

C

And the kind of city we are and want to be um to the work that we're doing here.

B

I and I agree that transportation is going to go through every conversation, whether it.

B

Be regulatory secondary market. I think that is a huge part. I've said all along that you can't get.

B

Affordable housing without making transportation part of that conversation, so I'm glad everyone's.

B

On board with that thought, and mr welsh, yes, thank you for having me um just be sure you talk into.

B

The microphone or we don't get it on recording, that's all um my my frame of I mean I'm a resident.

G

Of portsmouth as well, so I'm I'm interested in all this, but the my frame of reference is.

G

The director of the housing authority as a as a non-profit, local, non-profit, real estate, developer.

G

Our strategy has been, and will likely continue to be multi-family housing development using.

G

Low-Income housing tax credits we've got eight million dollars in federal tax credits to build.

G

The fourth street project we could come up with other strategies to do this. Some scattered site.

G

Development or some preservation or that kind of stuff, but um but right now, that's our core.

G

Competency and in that respect, um finding places to do that either to redevelop or.

G

You know or to develop new property on city owned land. Obviously, land costs are high.

G

That's really what we'd be you know interested in. We do have a supported market right now,.

G

The quartz free project, the griffin place, will be a little different in terms of the.

G

The income uh that people will be needing to make in order to get into ruth's place, but overall.

G

um Our other, our existing 600 units are all subsidized and we're actually the largest housing.

G

Authority per capita in the state, so arguably we have done a great job at serving the lowest.

G

Income people in our community, 85 percent of our residents currently are under that 30 percent of.

G

Area, immediate income that extremely low income category, but of course we all know that the.

G

That the housing that we're really missing, I think people are calling it the missile.

G

Missing missing middle is the fashionable term right now, but uh um but uh but we agree with.

G

That um the housing we have commissioned a housing study needs assessment. um The city.

G

Was going to do one, and we talked about doing it together, but we've just gone ahead um and.

G

And commission that that'll be done in april or so, and I think that data will be um really great.

G

For instructive for um everybody here, even if our work is done or not done, and thanks to nick and.

G

The city for being a great source of um data for that kind of stuff, so that should guide.

G

um That should guide what we do next, but um so I'm really I'm I'm interested in that I mean I'm. I.

G

I would hope at some point we could debrief on the what it's like to develop in portsmouth on.

G

A regulatory perspective we've certainly learned a lot, especially developing downtown the historic.

G

District, um we were we, our project was appealed. It was brought all the way to the supreme court. Tell.

G

You what that process was like and then what that cost us in terms of uh money and and uh and time.

G

So I'd love to be a part of that part of that as well. You know the this housing policy is probably.

G

Not referred to a whole lot, you know and you guys put a lot of time into it, but it sure was by me.

G

uh When we were going through the land use process- and I would also continue to work on this- because.

G

What it says about streamlining the process and things the city can do that impact, affordability,.

G

Is really relevant because I think all the city staff everybody was on board with that.

G

But nobody, you know not nobody, but it was hard to implement that idea without some.

G

More specifics, some things were specific, like uh contributing some capital improvement funds.

G

That the city should do that kind of thing and that's something that did happen.

G

um But to have stuff like this is, I think, really important. The master plan.

G

The 2005 master plan was outstanding. I think it mentions a very specific thing that we were able.

G

To point to and say that you know this is what we said, or this is what you know you you said.

G

um As we're doing so, I I think the regulatory stuff is is really important as of interest, but.

G

As a in our frame of reference, we want to keep building and we'd like to keep preserving the.

G

We haven't done that since we bought wamas at place at a foreclosure back in the 80s.

G

But you know just, for example, the rocklin street the portsmouth place. Apartments was.

G

What's called an expiring use property, it had a 20-year section, 8 contract.

G

And through the section 8 rehab program, a private developer or public developer could.

G

Could use funds and enter into in a section 8 contract directly with hud? We don't have.

G

Anything to do with that property or manage it or anything, but we do a little bit now, but.

G

um But when that contract expired in a place like portsmouth, the people don't renew it uh and.

G

Instead, they sold it and so that property was sold. I think in december of 2019 uh for 4.2 million.

G

Dollars we tried to buy it, we were unsuccessful in buying it, and then it was just sold again.

G

uh For an unsolicited offer for 10 million dollars two years later, um if you know that they will no.

G

Longer be able to keep with that kind of debt service to be able to keep that affordable. So I.

G

Also like to point out that it's going to take us six years and 15 million dollars to build 64 units.

G

And we've lost 48 overnight uh with that, and so um so just you know just doing what we've done.

G

And the largest expansion of affordable housing in the city in almost 50 years and we're still going.

G

Backwards so you know, I also want to add that we should treat this like the crisis, that it is.

G

That um you know, I also think planning board. People are need to be making decisions and have.

G

The cover to be courageous and make these decisions and move some things along.

G

Because there's always objections, you know and I totally honor and appreciate you know things like.

G

Design review and districts outside of the hdc as a developer. I hear that and it sounds like cost.

G

um To me, but I understand why we would want to do that kind of thing, but a long way to say I'd.

G

Be interested in figuring out the helping to figure out the where to get some other land.

G

And other resources- uh great, thank you, everyone for that input, and just so that everyone knows. I.

B

Mean everyone gets to partake in the whole final decision. It's just sort of the nitty-gritty of.

B

Looking at everything and really coming up with language and ideas, I thought it would be easier.

B

To not have all of us trying to do all of it and I'm all about organization and that organization.

B

Really works for me um with that said, unless anyone else has any more input, I did leave a.

B

A section for public comment and we do have a few members of the public here I don't know if we.

B

Have any on zoom either that might be interested, but anyone that's just yes. um So I definitely as.

D

We talk about public, there was one group that uh reached out and I just want to make sure it's the.

D

Professionals, design alliance, they would um very much actively like to play a role. um They.

D

They did a great job when we were when we were looking at trying to implement outdoor dining.

D

And they're just experts in their fields and they're willing to volunteer their.

D

Their time and and especially, I think that they would be a great asset when we, when we look at.

D

um Community space and and a lot of them are landscape, architects and.

D

And really think that that's um when, when I was reached out to by one of their their head, people.

D

uh Bob white, you know he and that group really believe and I think a lot of citizens believe.

D

Like I believe, a lot of planner board members that it's just a big mismissed opportunity for us.

D

um And that it would really make high impact, so I just want to make sure that they are on.

D

Kind of our top of our list for public input and whether that's individually or whether that's you.

D

Know, speaker speaker or they or can you even offer them to you know kind of their ideas, absolutely.

B

Yeah you get me the contact person I'd, be happy to reach out and organize that awesome. All right.

B

And if there's a member, I believe we have a member just find a chair with a microphone yeah.

G

We took all the public chairs.

J

My name is elizabeth brader, I'm a property owner in portsmouth. I usually use 159.

J

Mcdonald street, as my address, um I think this is a great idea. As someone who has.

J

Was literally looked for the zoning book in the library and ended up in the planning department.

J

And somebody there gave me an old copy and I literally read it cover to cover to get an.

J

Idea of what was going on- and I realized it was a real shock that it is zoning the zoning laws that.

J

Make this city what it is, so the regulatory people you're going to hear from me a lot, because I can.

J

Tell you myself that I have a list of zoning ordinances that really need to be looked at.

J

That really impact neighborhoods that really have loopholes in them that the city.

J

May not be aware of until somebody finds them. Some good lawyer finds them, but.

J

Those are there and they are very visible. For example, the wetlands has different rules for.

J

Commercial development, as opposed to single-family homes. So if you look at that, you might find it.

J

I would outreach to the actual engineers that work with the developers, because developers.

J

Their motive is to make money, and I, as a landowner, want to make money off of my.

J

Property but a developer, but the engineers know all the different things that are used in order to.

J

Provide the developer with what they want to succeed at so I would go with engineers.

J

I'm curious how many of you are landlords? Okay, oh, you are good.

J

um I think that landlords need protection because a lot of times you get.

J

People in who are section 8 or other things, and you give them a chance and.

J

Then, when things start going awry all of that money comes out of your pocket in the end.

J

And I can tell you that I've spent as much as forty thousand dollars to repair apartments from.

J

People who didn't take care of them, but it takes you up to six months to get them out. So there are.

J

Wonderful section: eight people we have some in our apartments, they take care of the place, but there.

J

Are others who really need a lot of supervision and there's no protection for the landlords.

J

I have concerns about adus and neighborhoods. I think they're a great idea but, as nick said.

J

They really need to be looked at very carefully because if you have an adu, that's being used for.

J

An airbnb and you have strangers coming into your neighborhood every day where your kids play. That's.

J

Different than having a rental next door- and so that does need to be looked at very carefully.

J

um I think you need to find the balance between neighborhoods and growth and I don't think that's.

J

What's happening here, I think that if the zoning allows it, the maximum is being put in a good.

J

Example is in in the islington creek neighborhood. There are three houses on one lot that used to be.

J

A single family home and they are cramped in there, but they were allowed. They actually were.

J

Allowed to put four, but we were able to get them down to three and yet across the street.

J

From this same development on islington street, I think they have six in there, but they were they.

J

Were put in in a way that actually looks nice and they actually fit into the neighborhood.

J

It's kind of overwhelming to see that many back there, but they actually did a nice job. So the.

J

Design is an important piece of that. um Let me see if I got all of my little things. um If you'd.

B

Like to provide me with a list of your, you know, concerns to the last mayor, I'm wondering if it.

B

Why don't you email it to me and I can make sure it gets to this committee.

B

All right and um I think the medium income in most of my. I am that person that person who has.

J

The micro units, which are really not called micro units, they're, called efficiency apartments and one.

J

Bedrooms, I'm also the person who has every bedroom has a person living in it. A working person, because.

J

That's how they can afford to live in portsmouth and in dover. They need to each have their own.

J

Up their own room and that's how they can afford it and I'm very reasonably priced I'm told by.

J

My tenants this so it's not necessarily true, but they consider it and literally.

J

One room is one person who is working, so it's something that really does need to be looked at.

J

I think that's it for me and please don't call them micro apartments, because they're really not.

J

They're, just efficiencies by another name. Thank you. Thank you very much. Is there any other members.

B

Of the public that would like to give us a few moments, we started a little late, so going a few.

B

Minutes passed here since she went up here. My name is beth morgeson. I live at 24 marcy street.

K

I'm a member of the public, but also I serve on the zoning board of adjustment for uh portsmouth.

K

I just recently was appointed um just a couple of observations from my very brief time on the board.

K

um I think a lot of um we get a lot of appeals from the planning board.

K

But I um I think a lot of the problems with the development now is that we are developing in more.

K

Sensitive areas, and that is requiring another layer of review, consider you know wetlands.

K

Conservation commission has to uh go through that, so I think a lot of it is that development, because.

K

So much is developed is actually going into other areas that are, you know, probably increasing the.

K

Regulatory process or just lengthening it so and the other thing um we actually we've had to deal.

K

With appeals uh from the planning board on the zba for 105 bartlett street at 53, green street and.

K

This year this week we got a declaratory junction uh lawsuit filed by the developer, seeking clarity.

K

On our scope of review and what should go to the superior court in which you go to the zba.

K

And I think I welcome that because I think that's very useful. I think that the community needs to.

K

Know that now I think it would be more useful if, for instance, in the zoning ordinance, we had.

K

Explicitly stated that the cups conditional use permits and some of the wetlands development.

K

Was innovative land use controls and therefore you would have more clarity.

K

As to where these scopes of review are I'm seeing a lot of little holes in the zoning.

K

Ordinance that, I think, would provide clarity without having to go to superior court to get.

K

A superior gordon to get a declaratory junction, um I will say the other thing in terms of regulatory.

K

Issues is what's going on at the state level. The mayor mckechern recently.

K

Testified against the non-regulation of airbnbs by local municipalities. If that goes through. That's.

K

Going to be devastating in terms of affordable housing issues here in portsmouth, I know a lot of.

K

People on both sides of like development or just where portsmouth is headed, who want to do airbnbs.

K

Because it allows them to fund their own vacation, so I think that that will be a real problem.

K

Also, last year, they implemented the housing appeals board, which is an alternate uh appeal.

K

Circuit for um to the superior court for just housing use units, not commercial or industrial,.

K

um They recently overturned the decision on 105 bartlett street. um The issue with that is.

K

Is that it is really more acting like a super planning board or zoning board of adjustment.

K

They are regularly uh overturning a lot of decisions from local land use wars in a lot of.

K

uh Towns, they have it's on their uh their website right now. They have 40 applications under review.

K

And there's been a lot of overturning of those decisions now you know maybe that's good for.

K

People who are supporters of 105 bartlett street, but that impact on the local land use planning.

K

Process is, may be very significant. um You know it's uh on 105 bartlett street. They actually made.

K

Some factual errors in our deliberations of that of that project, so I think that keeping an eye on.

K

What's happening with this housing appeals board that may cut both ways. It is meant to make the.

K

Housing process more streamlined, but it also may undercut some local land use. Zoning initiatives.

K

I think the airbnb issue will be potentially very significant for portsmouth and I think.

K

Also, just in terms of where you're developing and how that adds to the regulatory process.

K

And the the approval process is a significant issue. I mean people are really concerned about.

K

Wetlands there's a lot of wetlands in portsmouth. We have had um projects, we allow development in.

K

The wetlands I have personal feelings about that my suspicion is: is that there's a lot of wetlands.

K

Remediation work and perhaps overflow or sort of outfall treatment work that needs to be done.

K

That the city is looking to allow private developers do it because it just saves them money.

K

um But I think the level of development the wetlands really does need to be looked at.

B

So thanks. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else here that would like to speak.

L

We've got two people with their hands up online: okay, okay,.

H

We'll get to them online after the video uh good morning, everybody, my name, is ben van camp.

C

uh I know most people in the room, but I'm the president of the chamber collaborative the.

C

Portsmouth chamber of commerce we're at 500 market street. uh I I'm just um beyond excited about the.

C

Opportunity that exists for this group. um We, as the the business uh voice in the community, have.

C

Really identified affordable housing as the number one barrier to business growth in our community.

C

So we as an organization, are incredibly focused on this, uh we're paying a lot of attention to actions.

C

In concord and things like the uh short-term rental um thing, you know we are actually um our.

C

Board voted yesterday morning for us to oppose that, and I will be spending some time today.

C

Reaching out to our our legislative uh contacts to make sure they know that that is going to be.

C

Harmful to portsmouth and harmful to our housing, so we are incredibly attuned to this. I just want.

C

To share a brief conversation, I had with a local business owner a hotel um uh manager. Yesterday.

C

um He was actively trying to buy or or rent housing in portsmouth that he could then pass.

C

Along to his staff and some of that's required, if you bring in visa students and things like that,.

C

But you know they're they're actively uh investing in this and I think there's an opportunity for.

C

Someone probably more creative than I am to find a way to harness that investment um to be supportive.

C

Of public-private partnerships or or different projects that support housing that supports our.

C

Workforce, so I just encourage you to think about how the business community can be engaged in this.

C

I think everyone is um very attuned to the need and willing to uh think creatively and.

C

Be supportive of that, so that's my little pitch this morning! Thank you for volunteering, your time.

C

And service to the community, because it's probably not going to be a fun task. So thank you very much.

B

And we have a couple people on zoom: will we do? Let's start with liza liza? Are you there.

M

Yes, I am, can you hear me, yes go ahead? Thank you. My name is liza hewitt. I live at 726 middle road.

M

I have to assume that you inadvertently left out residents um in the formation of this committee.

M

um And in doing that, I really hope that you look at um putting a couple of residents.

M

On your committee, um I think that um that it's needed- um and I think that before you get too far,.

M

Down the road um that's important, um I wanna very much thank mr cracknell for his very thoughtful.

M

Comments addressing residents, concerns and the importance of of.

M

Including residents in this conversation, I would encourage all of you to go back and listen to.

M

His portion of what he said today, because I think um I I think that that he said a lot.

M

That needs to be heard. um I have some real concerns with comments that I heard here.

M

Earlier, um as the meeting was beginning about kind of pushing changes um through in 30 days,.

M

For example, where adus are concerned, um included in these comments are that.

M

There are some small changes that we could tweak, um not necessarily necessarily needing to include.

M

Residents on those um this feels very top down to me. um This feels like a group of people. You know.

M

Getting together and I and I understand that you are all residents, um but you are in very.

M

Different roles- and I and I don't know that you can serve that multiple role of, for instance, I'm.

M

A city councilor and I'm a resident, I'm a planning board member and I'm a resident. I think you need.

M

To hear residents that are residents that have some concerns with the way.

M

Development has been going in the city, um and so I would encourage um you.

M

To look at um getting some members of the the community on your committee, thank you very much.

B

Thank you. We have somebody else, yeah working on it, um jim smalley, jim, go ahead yeah good morning.

A

And thank you. um I just want to re-support what lisa just said to broaden the committee's input by.

A

Having residents on this and participate more actively on this committee to broaden.

A

The view think outside the box and really get a both the bottoms up and tops down approach.

A

But so thank you lisa for that. My first question is, you know the root cause of.

A

This is a supply issue, so my question is: will you be looking at the existing codes.

A

Rules, regulations, the constraints apply. You know portsmouth this portsmouth problem, housing issues.

A

It's decades in the making, and I know that you're looking for government solutions and litex and.

A

All that those are wonderful things to apply, but really look inside yourself and say what have we.

A

Done to limit supplies, what can we do to change that limit? um You know I keep hearing how we.

A

Keep we're running out of land, I do know we're not running out of sky and we have a height constraint.

A

um On things right very simple, in terms of what can you do to increase supply that doesn't require.

A

Additional government actions doesn't require additional government regulations approach. It.

A

From a green field say, do we really need these regulations? How do they impact supply impact.

A

Supply drive up the cost, um and can you quantify this? We want to protect certain things. Absolutely.

A

We want to protect the gem, that's downtown, but do and I'll do. We actually need a historic district.

A

Commission or do we need a commission that focuses on those properties that are truly historic,.

A

Because everything everybody seems to want to control absolutely everybody else's.

A

Property, you know we. I look over my fence and I say my what I control stops there. My property line.

A

But there's this well, it doesn't fit in the neighborhood we have to make it look like this got to make. It look like that. It's endless.

A

It needs to. You can never solve a supply problem um when you, when you don't allow.

A

Those people who can come in and develop their properties to the maximum um and I'm not saying.

A

Everything has to be, you know, 20 story towers, but we have created our own supply problem.

A

And I think the government solutions are around the edges.

B

Anyway, I thank you for your time and wish this community welcome. Thank you very much.

H

All right, robert white bob.

L

Good morning, thank you. um I guess there were just a couple things that I wanted to.

L

Point out that really, in terms of the context for this and I think the context.

L

For this, consideration is extremely important for basically laying a foundation of understanding for.

L

The community for why you know what are the issues around housing and how can we be strategic in.

L

Having a relationship between our city situation with housing and have a cause and effect between.

L

That information to be conveyed to to the public and then have a cause and effect between that.

L

And the zoning strategies that would happen, and I think it's really important that uh you know basic.

L

Definitions and understandings be be laid out, um for you know four uh for folks to understand.

L

All you have to do is go on the portsmouth, you know one of the portsmouth facebook sites and.

L

People are saying: well, what is what is affordable housing? What is workforce? Housing is workforce.

L

Housing, a real you know, is this a real thing um and you know: there's all sorts of information.

L

Out there, but it's actually fairly hard to discover you know really what it is. Unless you.

L

Are appointed to like seacoast housing coalition or new hampshire housing? You have to go and dig.

L

To have a profile of that- and I think you know and there's and as a result of that, there's.

L

Some information- I think that would also be very useful to the community, for instance,.

L

You know if you look at our you know the most recent census data is the cost of new construction.

L

In our city is two to two and a half times the same comparable value of property. That is.

L

Basically, existing building fabric, so the notion that we're going to do new construction to provide.

L

Workforce housing at two and a half times the cost of renovation or infill, or things like that.

L

Is you know it's pretty hard to make that actually pencil out in attention- and I think you know, as we.

L

Have seen in the past, I'm going to say 10 to 15 years of sort of city building of portsmouth is.

L

The notion that you're going to build higher and bigger and bigger and bigger to get the efficiency.

L

For affordable housing is, we have absolutely no foundation to actually have that happen, because.

L

The cost of going higher, the more denser is the economics of that are not always, as they appear.

L

So I guess I would encourage uh you know, don't just leap to the regulations and try to fix them.

L

Is please lay a foundation of understanding and I just point out to a couple documents that are out.

L

There is, you know, I think it was 2017. Portsmouth listens, hosted an extensively uh involved.

L

Series of forums that resulted in a working paper for the city council on housing that led to some.

L

Support and for the gateway districts that were put in place, uh rick rick tainter gave a fabulous.

L

Presentation on affordable housing, it's back in 2014, if anything, it's even more important. Now.

L

To have that foundation, uh you know even to have that as a point of comparison to where we stand.

L

Now is, please look back to all the work that has been done to understand the housing situation over.

L

You know in recent, you know reasonable recent history and don't just go to the bylaws and.

L

Think you're going to fix them without really laying this foundation of information, so that.

L

People can get informed and have a better understanding of why we're doing all this.

L

I would also reiterate that um you know that there are people in this community and I guess I'll say.

L

I'm one of them is the sort of founder of the design alliances. There are people with enormous.

L

Depth of experience on this and dedication to the city, some of us would be glad to participate.

L

Or be you know, be a part of the committee, however, would be appropriate. um I I, but I.

L

Do think that it would be helpful to have more than just counselors and staff on the committee.

L

With all dues respects you're all my friends and colleagues.

L

But uh but I really think it would be benefit from a little more outreach.

B

Thank you very much. We have someone else nope, that's it all right with that said. I I in.

B

Listening to some of the public comment, I did not intentionally leave residents out. We are, as we've.

B

All pointed out all residents, it was a matter of trying to find the right um people to actually.

B

Start to pull together the actual data and the actual languages that we need to talk about, but.

B

The idea was to then go out to the community and get all of their feedback on the stuff that we.

B

Look at so any changes to the actual makeup. This committee will have to be a conversation with the.

B

Mayor which I will certainly be having with him as soon as possible, and I'd also like to finish.

B

With um talking about our next meetings, I'd like to find a regular morning that works for everyone.

B

um I obviously rushed to kind of put together this first meeting, so we could at least get.

B

Hit the ground running and get um some tests in front of us, uh but if you guys, I would you prefer.

B

I send around, like I did before doodle poll, about options of I'm thinking like you know, the second.

B

Whatever day of the week and trying to do always morning, if that's possible in this time frame,.

B

I certainly can do that I'll. Take a look at my schedule and what works for some of.

B

Us and then I will send that out and then we can try to get on the calendar to meet this.

B

Way, I'd like to try monthly regularly, obviously in our individual works as subcommittees you're.

B

I'm going to send around the contact information so that I each of those groups can start to pull.

B

Together, I'm going to ask the staff to try to get us some of the exact zoning of the some of.

B

The stuff I wanted to start reviewing right away and if anybody else has any input of what they.

B

Want those groups to look like, please funnel it through me, and I can put together agendas and we.

B

Can start to set up some separate um subcommittee meetings to really start doing some of the work.

F

Best, could you just I'd, prefer just getting digital, not paper and that's fine. It was a little.

B

Hard to send it for understanding, I understand just so point of clarification. You said it but.

F

I want to say it again, this committee's not adopting anything we're coming up with ideas.

F

That have a lot of public vetting before they actually get implemented. So it's going to go.

B

From city we will recommend to city council city council will remain uh wreck, send it down.

B

To planning board for review, at which point they will have, um whether they do work sessions or do.

B

They will also have public hearings and once the public hearings on that level are done, it goes.

B

Back to the city council, where there'll be three readings and public hearings before anything's.

B

Enacted so there will be lots of opportunity after we make a recommendation for the public.

B

To speak, but we hope the public will speak to us directly as well as we're working and if nobody.

B

Has anything else, then I will happily adjourn the meeting. Thank you very much everyone. Thank you.