City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Mayor's Blue Ribbon Energy Advisory Committee, 21 Jul 2022

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7.21.2022 Energy Advisory Committee

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uh This is the july 21st meeting of the portsmouth energy advisory committee, we'll.

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Quickly take the role committee, member tanner president counselor yeah committee member.

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Just in case you haven't watched it, the city council did vote to affirmatively. Ask us to.

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Create an energy aggregation plan and with the proviso that, if that plan is approved,.

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Our c manager and staff to create our program, so that was great. We also did the.

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Requested a bylaws change.

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So that was taken down.

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And that means our work begins on an aggregation plan.

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Kevin, maybe you can just fill us in on any timeline changes or there really hasn't been.

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Any changes since our our last meeting really heavily in the throes right now on the short.

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List of vendors or um operational services for your coalition and getting, I think, close to.

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Selections and contract, et cetera, et cetera um and still on the schedule for implementation.

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Right next april for may, I think nothing has changed in terms of the broader, broader.

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Schedule it's just it's starting to get real now, we'll be bringing resources on board.

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And there's a search committee, that's been formed to.

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You know yeah started the process for ceo and and uh potentially reporting positions. Hey.

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That's right, but uh so yeah, no substantive changes since our last.

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Oh yeah so um yeah the.

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Approval by the puc of the rules um was deferred. um I think it just got a scheduled deferral.

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A final decision sometime in august, but the coalition based upon that movement didn't think.

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There was any impact on the critical path of their schedule. Certainly they'd like to get it done.

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Because the partners that they're going to contract with.

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Whether it's in the customer care side or procurement, et cetera,.

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He was comfortable that.

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So we put a timeline in to the council packet, which shows us finishing up the.

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Aggregation plan at the end of the year and bringing it to the council early 23.

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It'd be interesting to see if the puc drags its feet long enough.

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So you know that's the work ahead of us, we'll talk about that tonight. The other thing.

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Happening since we last met was, we did have.

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I know that if the counselors were there.

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Gave them a lot of information and.

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Gave them reasons to support the whole project.

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140 people sign up, I don't know what the actual attendance was polling had. 92 or 3 people respond.

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So publicity paid off, we spent a little money on focusing, but I thought it was a good time.

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And I was really intrigued with the poll results which I.

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Now, it's obviously a small sample of the city. It may be a environmentally motivated.

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Portion of the city, but there is strong support for 51, said they wanted to pay extra for 100.

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75 said they would pay more for 100 or somewhere between.

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And there was not a big ground swell saying we just want this to lower rates.

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I think it's worth some kind of survey again, that's more broad-based.

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Perhaps, to really get a sense of where the public is and then come back with.

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A plan that meets the public desires, so we can look forward to that in the fall.

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But my hunch is that the interesting renewable energy among the residents is pretty.

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Strong, so um we also thanks to kevin, gave you the template.

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How many were all four.

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I didn't, but I did read the goal section and I think that's that's our discussion tonight.

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And I think we also gave you.

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Which was interesting because they're each a little different.

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There's even more than I think, there's like eight now. That's the fact you set out.

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There are um so in framing the discussion about the goals of the program.

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I thought first, it would be good to see where we come back.

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Just hear from each of you your thoughts on goals that you've seen in those other plans.

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I think at this point we want to be more inclusive than exclusive.

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There's about seven or eight goals, most of those plans.

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I think it suffices to to name all of those goals.

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But it also is good if we have a discussion about which ones rank highest.

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I think they're redundant. I thought they were saying the same thing.

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I tried to boil it down to more headline style.

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And that's where my tiny chicken scratches.

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To me, it came down to looking at the other plans.

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Lower rates like rise.

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Consumer protection and advocacy.

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Most of the other plans just talked about.

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New services that help customers lower their energy costs time, shifting battery storage.

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I think smartly, which is a good thing too right. Well you're, a solar.

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Yeah, but I mean I think, that understanding where, in your house, your drains are.

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What's using most electricity.

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um And then a number of the plans that one of their goals was to foster.

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That local energy generation makes us more resilient.

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And then a regional collaboration certainly.

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So I think those are the sort of the big.

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Just thought it would seven good to have a discussion.

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From each at your advantage wondering what.

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Is most important.

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Well, I think I have the seven things that you were talking about, except I just condensed the things.

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Under different headings, um I sort of did them in what I think might be the priority like the.

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First, priority competitive rates and standard choices. I think that's what we think about.

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Yes, so- and I noticed that yours, compression of them.

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B

Consumer protections and public advocacy, um I think it would be really great if we had something.

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Happening on the state level, and so if we can have some power through the community that that would.

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Be really beneficial enhanced customer focus, in other words, if people have questions about.

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Solar installation and what's going on in the city and how do I do that.

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We can help with that kind of information and cleaner local power and community.

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Resilience, I mean I'd really love to see us put more solar, more wind.

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I think there are some sites in the city that are perfect for wind.

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And they don't have to be a 400 foot tower. There are a lot of different kinds of wind gathering.

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Technologies nowadays, and so it doesn't have to be this unsightly wind turbine.

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But also you know, storage, I think, is going to be really important, especially uh microgrid.

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Development, maintaining our resilience through having critical infrastructure.

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Supported by electrifieds right and it's difficult local things rates based on time.

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Right and education, I mean that's, that's really important, because I think that a.

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Lot of people don't understand that you know if you're, using.

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All your appliances doing your wash and everything else when everybody gets home from work at night.

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That sort of draw on the entire system, and if you do it earlier or later you know and.

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Let them know what those times are so that they can try to schedule things.

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C

Yeah well, I'm kidding inside out. So I think it's a great point because I don't think people understand that there are different rates.

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um So allison these this um review that you put together of goals.

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um I think the things between everything that we've learned over the last several.

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Months and then some little nuggets that came out of the community.

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um I think- and it is sort of what everybody's talking about right now is.

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Getting towards cleaner, greener power um and I think one of the questions I wanted to pose.

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To this group is something that you said in your very first full analysis about you know. Is there.

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A tiered system with percentages of fossil fuel, renewable energy sources, because I think it's.

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Going to have to be a tear or a phase in our phase out approach, of course, just because right now.

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If we want cleaner, greener and then gosh local generated power is a whole another.

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Several year endeavor and we need to build reserve funds to do it, whether it be us or through ctcnh,.

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There has to be an understanding that it's going to be a phase in this situation,.

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So how do you see that here yeah, you know in the first one or two years know the utilities have.

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Procurement standards already for this, but you know you know: portsmouth sets a goal that in years.

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You know one and two: we have a blended we're trying to get to 25 renewable power um or.

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From renewable sources versus using fossil fuel based power and years, three and four.

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I I don't know if it should be something that prescriptive, but I also think it sort of says.

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It's a reality checklist right for the consumers. um It's already it's already much higher. No, it's a.

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Matter of approach requirements right now next year is 26. When I said it, each year goes up.

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In terms of the default right, so I don't know if we wanted to think about we're learning that.

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um Doing something sort of in parallel, because I think it's also a great education tool for.

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For residents as well, but understanding that we just can't flip the switch and have our localized.

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Power environment. It's just not it's not possible. I wish it was, but.

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So I I kind of like this idea of phasing out fossil fuel usage in our power source um and.

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Yeah there's some big cities that aren't doing that now. New york city did it last year.

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um And I think then, with that we have the opportunity to say.

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To get there, this is the other target that came.

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But if we're not also focusing on our efficiencies and time so using- and I don't know if this is the.

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Right place as part of our community power program to be also talking about how we can be making our.

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Better boilers, you know.

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um So sorry, to make sure you talked about.

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I'm trusting that there's consumer protection and fiscal stability and responsibility through.

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Cpcnh, I'm sort of thinking on the fact that those things are given but for portsmouth.

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And then facing towards.

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The regional collaboration and the political advocacy.

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They're still on your.

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Well, a big hole for rates today.

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We have a goal of getting.

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How do you think that differs from taking the consumer choice approach, we'll.

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Do you think we need to specify increasing the amount of local.

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Renewable resources for using versus texas.

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Yes, very much.

C

And I think the larger the aggregation, the more ability to.

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Create a market should we define local.

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Well, ultimately, the procurement folks are going to be buying.

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For the coalition they're not going to be buying from portsmouth.

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So you know they're going to develop the procurement risk policy and I think.

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Wants local but exeter, doesn't you know if they're.

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It's not going to be that specific. That's specific, because I mean it's a tiny state.

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To begin with, we're going to have about seven five thousand customers and wave one, so it's.

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Tight and so the procurement game is gonna, be they're gonna, I think, have a have a portfolio.

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That reflects what the cities and towns want, but they're not gonna, be necessarily. I don't think.

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My idea of locals, like.

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You know and then we're going to have some stuff going on in massachusetts that I think we're going.

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To avail ourselves of, if we're fortunate enough to be able to, are there going to be any opportunities.

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For communities to object to certain types of removals, the reason I ask this question is.

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The clear cutting of force in massachusetts, students are installing.

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These big corporations are coming in and buying fields of forest.

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To cut them down, so it's it's not really um benefiting us directly, even though it.

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Is technically renewables where we have a way to exclude those types of.

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The vendor that's going to be working on the current risk policy, I think, is going to work.

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With all the communities and developing that this policy, because ultimately there is policy.

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Needs to get approved by the member, whether it's councils or small towns,.

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So all this is going to be done. I think you know transparently.

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So I think the local generation it's hard to see a clear path unless we look at it.

D

It's got a clarifying question, so these goals are, there are certain things that are sort of out of.

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Our control, that's what we're talking about the aggregator like not buying from a certain.

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Solar specific solar installation that won't really be portsmouth, but it seems like the local.

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Like putting in an array of you know, the city yard that I was thinking of would come out of what we.

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Over the years, we're gonna accumulate a reserve fund right that we can run efficiency, programs.

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Or potentially, help to fund or local renewables, I mean but they're kind of two separate things.

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Yeah kevin: does the reserve all go all live at cpc in nature.

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Yeah and that's another, the whole cautionary unit is one of the other big policies.

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Can be used for different purposes for projects.

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As well as I understand their computers to help stabilize rates.

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Yeah right and that could be used for energy conservation or maybe solar projects or education.

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A question about local, generally speaking, the rules around rps programs is that you.

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Have to be deliverable into the building of control, so name. Some viewer works.

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That's about it.

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um Not canada, not new brunswick, that's that's it for neighbors. So um I think if we were to.

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Specify that it would be the kind of renewable certificates that are generally eligible states.

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I think that that yes, it's within new england yeah, that's a clarification.

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Moreover, to the extent that we have the ability to structure our portfolio or.

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We've got maybe just some basic service for your rates and stability objectives. Perhaps.

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But we do have an objective to try and procure some green power.

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If possible, I think it would be good for us to specify that we'd like to buy bundled energy and.

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Racks, if possible, I mean it's it's I mean it's okay to buy wrecks from just anybody.

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But if we want to develop local ish sources, then they think you're talking about a bundle and.

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Not trying to tie the hands of the pm, but if there's some way to structure.

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um Objectives or preferences guidance to the pm as they structure the portfolio.

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Trying to have some kind of carve out for truly green local power, I think, would.

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You know peeling apart the energy from the wrecks you can sell the energy into the market.

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Yeah there's a new wind farm out there, the farm is going to market its products and it's got.

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You know a handful of them, but if we're going to try and get some energy to supply deal with that.

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Facility we'd want to buy their energy.

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And their environmental attributes, and then we can say yeah we've got great power because.

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The wrecks are really just a financial thing: that kind of exists anywhere.

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I'm in a bundle way, I just feel like you.

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Go a little bit further yeah and that's also using the aggregated demand to stimulate creation.

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Generally speaking,.

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If you're just you know, buying system power and you're buying some leftover wrecks from.

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Whoever has them yeah and.

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Happy to debate that happy from talking about.

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Get that portfolio management piece to work.

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Is they say a strong partnership with intel.

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And I think it would be wise for us to recognize that a strong partnership with open source.

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Is important to the city and what we're doing you talk about grid modernization.

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That's not going to happen to the coalition. It's not going to happen to our committee here.

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The interconnection worked any of these big projects, the smart meters. You know the.

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Smart meters are going to get deployed by the distribution company. You know a multi-million.

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Dollar, multiple year project so and we as customers are already paying a lot of this.

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And I don't think all of our objectives in this document just have to be what we're getting out.

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Of the coalition, it's really what we're trying to get out of you know a community focus on on.

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Energy- and some of that, I think, is coming through a continued strong partnership with your local.

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Utility to leverage all that they do and the capabilities they have and not to alien, sometimes.

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I think some of these programs- it's like you, know all right- we're gonna, cut the cord and we're gonna.

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Be uh you know, we're gonna, do it all ourselves, and I think that would be my topic not to.

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At the same time, you know advocacy and concord on to get started to get interconnects to be as easy.

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As possible, things like that yeah that's important because we're as a state behind absolutely.

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Yeah, I can guarantee you the ami in massachusetts.

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Yeah, that's just it always seems that way. Pain of mine is uh automatically uh infrastructure.

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Maine got it paid for 2009 with the era funding. They were smart for federal money, we'll stay down.

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But um but the advanced metering infrastructure is something that I think is on the horizon, but.

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It's probably totally yourself yeah. It helps facilitate the time.

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I think both massachusetts connecticut they're, working with the respective pucs.

C

Yeah they're trying to get support from the pcs, because it's a huge capital and vessel yeah.

C

So, who else wants to speak to what our goals ought to be?.

C

I agree with what has been said so far as far as goals go. um I do think that.

C

After residents experience, this huge increase that we're going to see starting our dispersion rates.

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That there is going to be a lot of interest in lower base, and people are.

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Going to see community power of the way to lower rates, not just because this increase.

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Is so significant? I don't think I don't think we're really going to understand the impact.

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And that's going to draw their attention so um so it's something that we need to think about.

C

However, we set our goals and our priorities that we're we're going to have a lot of revenue for.

C

Lower rates when we finally have the opportunity to launch your enforcement, the thing is that their.

B

Contracts will lock them in for a certain period of time, and so when we, you know, move forward with.

B

Our plan they may not, there may not be a lot of people that are able to switch. You know a friend.

E

Of mine recently had a letter in the portsmouth herald, which made a lot of sense. But in fact,.

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Was not what the way it works, so he said. Look fifty percent of the interest electricity is.

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From zero, the other 50 is natural gas and all the others. um Nuclear power hasn't gone up in cost.

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Dramatically as natural gas has, so why are these rates going up so dramatically.

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So I have to explain to them that the way the iso new england, which buys the wholesale power.

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In the new england, market works is every day.

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Requests for forbid, who can offer someone's power every day to the grid and seabrook bids in with.

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Zero dollars, in fact, sometimes they've, actually paid to get rid of their power.

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Because they cannot turn off and on like many power facilities like gas plant, so they have to.

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Keep the power running because it costs too much to shut the reactor down and bring it up again.

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So they've been in with zero zero dollars and then the other fifty percent is made up of natural gas.

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And coal and whatever renewables, whoever has the highest bid in that stack for that day or that.

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Six month period sets the price for everybody else. So, even though zebra bit in with nothing, they get.

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The highest price in that stack, so natural gas right now is setting the price for everybody.

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Because we're so because it's such a big part of that that portion that they have to do so, uh it's.

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It's it's! It's maybe unusual when people hear this that this is the way they do it, but that's why.

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It doesn't matter what what seabrook bids into they get the highest price that everybody gets.

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So peter would have. I was just asking everybody we circulated, as you saw the.

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Really grouped the goals that we're seeing into seven.

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Big ones: lower rates, more green power, great stability.

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Consumer protection and advocacy you know, cp steamage, is one of their strengths.

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Helping customers lower their total energy costs doing things like battery storage time.

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Timing and purchasing and uh and then another a lot of the time.

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And there's that same sentiment here I want to use community power to foster.

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Local power generation and a good discussion about what local is because.

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In fact, as ben was saying, wouldn't be great if cpcnh can buy the actual.

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Lean energy from a solar provider or.

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So we're just getting thoughts from each of us on those goals: how the rainforest have a rainforest.

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Well, just to follow up on what I just said about how how eversource gets its power prices.

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um The quad ranger club is not raising its rate to the same level as that resource. I think every.

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Source is going to 22 cents. The co-op is going to 17 cents. Something like that. Why? It's? Because they.

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Ladder their purchases, they don't purchase every six months they purchase continuously.

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Whatever they can get and then, when you average that out over whatever period of time, they use.

E

uh It turns out that they have a lower rate than ever so starts right. Now, uh it's it's partially.

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Because eversource is a regulated utility and they're not, uh but but I from what I gather that.

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The power community concept is going to try and do the same thing. They will try to land the purchases.

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So that they're not going to buy every six months but they're going to buy whenever.

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A good price is offered, and that will give an opportunity for everybody to get a lower rate.

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uh Just like you would later like investments and stuff like that in a more stable rate right.

E

Having that model, I think I think the co-op is using the portfolio model, which is the.

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Model that the coalition intends and tends to use and, as you said, the regulated utility and.

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This goes back to deregulation, where they, where they wanted their utilities to go out, get bids.

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And then bring the bids in the folder to the pc and open them up and say: okay, you see you guys.

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Pick because they wanted, they wanted total sunlight transparency over these contracts.

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And I think it comes back to bite us a little bit that they're not living. They have not over.

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What's now 20 years, let the utility use more of a portfolio approach, but it's interesting.

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If the utilities go in that direction, it puts a little bit of a monkey wrench in the coalition's.

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um So-Called competitive advantage here to be able to deliver right now, they've got to go because the.

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Hands are tied behind the back of the regular utilities uh I'll be at the co-op, and you know.

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The co-op is a is demonstrating. If you use a portfolio approach, you can.

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Circle this topic, but it's great it just it'll, be interesting. I mean if I was the puc, I I'd start.

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To say why am I tying the hands of the regulated utilities uh when it's impacting consumers in the.

D

State it's such a negative way so kevin. Are you saying that there's a movement of foot too? No, I.

D

Don't want the facility to do this. I think there was if there was yeah yeah yeah. I don't see any.

D

Movement at all that they're gonna do that they're gonna, let them do it yeah, even though I agree.

D

With you yeah it shocks me that they require that they purchase the power in that fashion.

D

Tommy you want to give us, um I mean, I guess what I was trying. One of the things I was trying to.

D

Figure out is, it seems, like they're, pretty ambitious when we get to some of the looking.

D

At some of the other towns having it's kind of like an all like, we really want everything, and I.

D

Guess if we have that many goals, there's a water down what we really want to get out of this so.

D

um I mean I like the level of of the goals that you listed and I think you know out of there.

A

If you know, I think it's keeping rates low as well as rate stability rate stability may.

D

Even get a little bit more airplane now when they spike. um But the idea of like adding.

D

Some mills I mean there's, there's talk about modeling after what's been going on in california,.

D

For years, like the marine, clean energy- and they have been accumulating, reserve money so that they.

D

They run their own energy efficiency programs. Now they have a storage program that they're running.

D

And that I think, is kind of exciting. If we're going that direction, it seems like.

D

I don't know if we need to get into it in our goals, but a couple mills there's a couple. Mills.

D

This means we're going to have raids that are just slightly more so I mean that comes.

D

To mind, when there's a lot of focus on rates, it seems like it's at the expense of something.

D

But I so that's where I get a little confused, because I think from the beginning we always.

D

Wanted options, so I you know, I think that's to me is a big one to keep the.

D

I can't remember which one it is well. Choice in access is one of those.

D

But keeping you know the idea that we have for folks that want to rig stability, but that we.

D

Keep it there, you know the local green power and I did see something along the lines of offering.

D

I can't remember which goal it is, but along the lines of offering other services down the road.

A

Kevin is that going to be an emphasis with cpcnh or using that reserve for programs.

A

Like moran does, I think so yeah, but it's, I think, that's like phase two phase phase three.

A

You know but yeah, I think these goals, you know, probably looking at some of them right.

A

But um yeah it's hard to argue with, I think any of the ones that these other candidates.

A

See that they've kind of copied and based on another.

A

Part um there is a section in the back of the document that appendix that I know some.

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Of you are involved with communities of the city that have relevant. You know, there's a attachment.

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Attachment eight, it says you can put excerpts of additional links.

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For local policy documents relative to community power, so you know I know.

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Many of you are on different communities, there's an opportunity I think, of the plan as well.

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To add some local flavor around the good work, that's already being done right.

B

Like lincoln's in the.

A

Or lisa sweet what exactly would go in there or we could look at some of the.

A

Other completing documents, but there is an attachment here that said the other.

C

Have an energy renewable energy policy on the books established in 2017 and pulled it up to.

C

The group, but if we can pull language from that or include it with our eip, I think that would.

C

Be powerful and it sends a good message to all the good work. That's going on absolutely well actually.

A

It was adopted in march 2018 that and then you were on that I think you'd grab her.

A

But the goal it states that as a policy, we have a goal as a city to get to being. In that.

A

And there's three phases for that: one is municipal.

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Two is uh residential, three is transportation, and I'm vastly oversimplified is.

C

Very important, specifically.

C

I think one of the things that is going to come up, especially.

E

Is that people are going to equate their bills.

E

Whether they're doing improving or not improving their situation,.

E

When we, on the other hand, talk about net zero, we're talking about greenhouse gas emissions,.

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And greenhouse gas emissions are a direct function of consumption. How many kilowatt hours per using.

E

So, even though people might be reducing their kilowatt hour, usage they're going.

E

To see their bills go up dramatically and they're gonna say geez. I thought I was.

E

Reducing my usage and now all of a sudden, I'm paying more. uh How do you explain that to me.

E

So it's almost like it would be a good idea uh as we embarked on the beginning of this process.

E

To uh have kind of an inventory of the greenhouse gas emissions or the usage.

E

That linked to that before we start telling their prices paying rates.

E

Because people are usually just think it's the same, but it won't be the same not with a dramatic.

E

Increase like now, it will be very dramatically different and people will question you know if I'm.

E

Reducing my energy, why am I my bills? Going up by a dollar doesn't make sense right, but in fact that.

E

Can happen because it's not just about greenhouse gas emissions, it's also about you, know the fuel.

E

Sources and the price of fuels of volatility, and I don't think that most people are conscious of that.

E

But if we can start laying the groundwork by saying okay, your consumption is one thing.

E

Your price that you're paying is a different thing and we're trying to reduce consumption.

E

Because that reduces greenhouse gas emissions and ultimately that will reduce your price.

E

But the prices are not set just based on on whether it's a greenhouse gas emissions or.

E

Not it's set according to what the fuel mix is yeah and we're going to have some whiplash.

E

Around that for six months, yes, yes, no question, but that also is going to motivate consumers to.

A

Want a local choice, something right, one more option right so tom I was hearing. You say that.

A

You're, looking at alice in summary, um you're concerned about having.

A

Too many to diffuse goals and what are the most important ones.

D

Yeah, actually I was thinking. Allison's was a nice number. I mean there were.

D

Some that, were you know three times that you know that went on for a couple pages.

D

And it, it just seems like, I think, we're better off right, narrowing a little bit.

A

That clarifies it.

A

I would put more of an emphasis on the.

A

Cleaner local power, but otherwise I agree with all of them. I think that's just where I think.

A

We need to go, I think we need to be aggressive to make progress. I think the counselors playing.

A

On stable rates, competitive rates all well taken. I completely agree with that.

A

But um I was just going to say that I want to buy some great power.

A

For myself, I look at city's renewable energy policy. I look at.

A

What our little mini survey, the 29th, told us, and I think more green power should be a very clear goal.

A

And not perhaps not blended with other goals but stated separately.

A

And I also think rate stability is.

A

A really good goal, because I think it's the structural advantage of the cpcnh portfolio.

A

So that's a very important goal um and I agree with allison's summary of the others.

A

It's sort of the goldilocks list. It's not too long. It's not too short.

A

The you know the longer range things the grid modernization.

A

And some of the more advanced services such as we're stands in marin.

A

I think it's worth putting those down.

A

Because it aligns with what we're doing as a city on climate action.

A

Aligns with what other organizations like clean energy and h are really pushing for aligns with.

A

What cbcnh will be pushing for copper so.

A

I think that region of collaboration is really a big thing. You know, being a small.

A

State trying to get more and more cities in town to speak with one voice in concord.

A

And try to get things whether it's regulation changed or capital investment.

A

Distribution companies and folks are interested in whatever it might be. I think there's no power.

A

Some of the things in allison's list, I think, are important, but we already have a consumer.

A

Advocate we already have utilities trying to put in new leaders trying to do microgrids et cetera,.

A

So, to the extent that we can use the education function, because I think customer focus to try.

A

And educate people not only about marginal cost pricing peter's talking about, but what services.

A

Are out there just having people be more engaged and take availing themselves of? What's out there.

A

um I think would be a good thing. This seems like a really great platform and opportunity to do that.

C

The education, I think, energy efficiency- I mean even as clean as the energy efficiency programs.

C

Are in the state but they're there there's some things and as a city, the more we ensure.

C

Our residents know what is available, it might not come through. The coalition might be through the.

C

Distribution company but we're paying for them in our bill, so folks, you know, take advantage of them.

C

I think it's important that we not lose sight of.

C

What she did highlight under consumer production as a public advocacy infrastructure investments or.

C

Greater moderate creative modernization because we can't ask our communities.

C

To improve transportation move to electric vehicles, if we don't have capacity for.

C

And so we have to be thinking about that bigger structural investment. You know and.

C

I I realized that we're that every source has made me in that direction.

B

I was thinking that we could tie together the two things that we just brought up so maintaining a.

B

Strong relationship with eversource and to enhance grid modernization, potentially as a blind items.

B

John, I just wanted to remind people too that.

E

Especially now with the volatility and fossil fuel crisis, specifically uh natural gas, that.

E

Green energy is zero fuel cost. Okay, no volatility in the fuel costs once you've installed. The solder.

E

Or the wind, the cost of the energy is zero or versus coal oil, natural gas. All that stuff all.

E

The volatility is now very clearly in driving the marketplace that goes away with green.

E

Energy, what the trade-off is something up front. The upfront costs are higher uh and therefore.

E

People say: oh yeah, it's costly to do this, but then you get away from the volatility of fuel costs and.

E

You don't have any fuel costs for life, so to speak, so that is one of the biggest selling points of.

E

That energy, and in a time when the fuel costs are so volatile, I think people could understand.

E

What's going on there, because you can either have stability in the fuel cost.

E

Or volatility and based on certain energy types, what one doesn't happen, the other one does.

E

Another example of how we could be maybe proactive as a group as a city or as a coalition.

E

Is to do purchase power agreements for offshore wind. The offshore wind projects that are coming.

E

On the off remain granted, there may be eight years down the road, but the state of new hampshire has.

E

Refused to sign a person's power agreement committing themselves to buying that energy.

E

In the future and massachusetts- and I think maine too, have already committed to buying a.

E

Certain amount of energy and that that basically accelerates those companies that want to do this.

E

Because now they're getting commitments from users who want that energy, and so it might be.

E

A little presumptuous enforcement to do something like that, but certainly not on the coalition to.

E

Say we're interested in a purchase power agreement with the offshore wind locations.

A

A

That uh rise to the top for you, um I I the one that I think we're I just mentioned around.

A

The regional collaboration we're getting strength, um so I think that's particularly.

A

Particularly important, I think that's new a lot of these other things are.

A

That are our objectives, um but the one I think that we're really creating some.

A

Real strength as a regional collaboration and our ability to leverage that yeah and I think.

A

A number of towns could go in on.

A

You know it's getting. Rule changes, um you name it. I mean. There's, there's groups out there nature you.

A

Know like clean energy, new handshakes and doing things over the years and other organizations, but.

A

The actual city and towns of the state kind of locking shoulders on topics, I think that's.

A

They really make a difference.

A

Is there some movement for new hampshire businesses to make more of a push.

A

In the direction of I mean.

A

Because it seems to um the businesses couldn't benefit from this too.

D

It's not just residents and they have more clout, maybe in the legislature than ordinary residents.

D

Pitched to our number of new.

D

D

No, I mean it's pretty inclusive list. I interviewed tom. This is a living list, living goals and they're.

D

Not static, so I think, as the organization stands up, you'll have more opportunities to refine this.

D

And I think right now: people's goals, as the counselor said that are going to be to have.

D

Inexpensive stability rate stability and options that are inexpensive, the current.

D

Portfolio model uh with all these reactive options are not going to give us an expensive power.

A

It's going to be more expensive and that's it's not bad. It's just an acknowledgment that it's.

A

It's going to be difficult to provide multiple sources of green power.

A

And do it inexpensively it's just it's just challenging, so I think it's just an acknowledgment.

A

Of that, but the goal: a goal: having lower rates, that's a goal. You know these are goals so.

A

Yeah and we've seen a number of these towns try to create a rate tier.

A

Or an option that is just yeah lowest price.

A

Thinking in their survey there's like 15 percent, so the city, you say I just want the roaster.

A

They get served with an option to do peter. Haven't you negotiated for the city at a lower rate right.

E

Now for electricity, we currently have a very good rate. We just completed negotiations for.

D

24 25 seasons or years and the electricity went on 66, so it went from six eight to eleven.

D

Two to eleven two is just half the rate that you ever associated well yeah, but it's still.

D

You know significant and the drivers, as drivers, you said, is forgets. It's an international.

D

Commodity, we have restrictions getting gas up to the northeast, so it just impacts everything.

D

D

But we we, we didn't, negotiate a you know. We had the standard.

D

Portfolio, which is what thirty five percent now for green makeup.

D

Yeah, so we just wanted that default. It wasn't a you know, higher green.

D

Let's see okay, so this is the default mix, the default source. That's right,.

D

So it was, I mean I was gut-wrenching just to make that commitment. You know, but you.

D

Know I I think that, but you know the futures went up right after we did it. The volatility.

D

Is pretty shocking because, just a year ago I signed a two-year agreement with direct energy.

E

For 6.5 cents a kilowatt hour, all green energy for two years now I get lucky because I'm in that.

E

Two-Year period yeah, but just to show how volatile that rate is, I mean they could offer me 6.5.

E

And now here we are just a year later and now the default rate is 22 or something like that.

E

Which means that it's a very volatile rate, it's gonna, it's gonna, jump all over the place.

E

And- and I'm talking 100 energy green now, because I was willing to pay for that.

E

Whatever it costs- and I was shocked to see it was so low, okay,.

E

And what is it today? You know like if you went out and did 100 years six months ago, and it's only 10.

C

80., okay, I did an agreement today. There was no green and 100 renewable plan. There was nothing.

C

So I went with it to avoid the rate increase next month, but now I've got to go hunting.

C

Through every single supplier and see, if I can find it because no one had it.

C

And what was the links that you've got to use default? The default links? Okay, yeah, because I'm.

C

Not a green plane until november and then uh when the rate went up, um they didn't offer me three.

C

Plan then either it would be interesting to see with the coalition, because their.

C

State position is they're, not gonna, go live unless they could be the default rating right and so.

C

It'd be interesting to see how much actual green is in the initial.

D

Options for the phase, one communities or if it's really just a heads-up, you know.

D

Their version of default right well, there's a car in the launch street because it's all right now.

D

Yeah, but you know there's something to be said for starting with, is you know, starting lower rate.

D

And you know maybe a little dirty or miss to build, have success, build that reserve get you know, get.

D

The resources, so you can do rate stabilization, so you can take these initiatives right. I mean it's a.

D

It's a longer vision. You know, we all the reasons. All the goals that everybody's talking about are.

D

That's what our goals are. We want to stabilize it it'll impact future. You know infrastructure.

D

Investments and improve the mix of available power, but it's going to take a little while and they.

D

Want phase two to be full of default service as well, so whenever fort smith, you know we're going.

D

Into in the fall, so they they're interested in those first, two waves being better than.

E

Than default service and then from there who knows, but the co-op is already beating them.

E

So it's not a big challenge, it's been done. That's what I'm saying it's not necessarily going to stay.

D

At 22 cents either that's true, that's true, but but but on the other hand, it's not going.

E

To stay at 22 cents like you're, saying it could go down yeah and it could go down dramatically.

E

Because the market will react to this I mean people say: oh my gosh. I can get 22 cents.

E

Hey I can, I can sell my power, which I didn't sell before, because it was too expensive. It.

E

Was like 18 cents, let's say okay, so I didn't even think I could get into the market all of a sudden.

E

18 cents, I was pretty attractive which it didn't before so it seems to me the market will respond.

E

To these high prices, which, personally, I think they're temporary meaning, maybe a two year period,.

E

Where natural gas is so spiking, but market is responding, trying to get other energy sources.

E

Online to compete with it and I think they're gonna they're gonna try to beat that rate.

A

We're coming up in an hour and 20 or so minutes.

A

At the risk of being bedanic, I just thought I'd summarize.

A

Some of our key inputs that we had on these goals, it seems like alice in your list, is a nice.

A

List to go with um you had emphasized, competitive rates will be important, emphasize the fiscal.

A

Stability and reserves are really important and the customer focus. I urge you to say.

A

Have information to give consumers so that they can do things themselves.

A

So customer focus really on the diy aspect: um becca you have this cons, interesting concept.

A

Of one of our goals should be a steady phase out of fossil fuels in the mix similar to what.

A

Renewable standards are trying to do regionally rate stability, of course, very important, grow.

A

You want to buy cleaner local power, you want to have that option and keep that option.

A

To people in the community um as well as this interesting idea, can we encourage the coalition.

A

To buy pure local green power and get the wrecks at the same time, the bundle.

A

Kevin you emphasized the strong partnership with eversource.

A

And as we tease that out, that really starts to involve smart grid. Smart.

A

Meters on that.

A

A

You were saying we don't want to have too many goals like some of these towns. Don't.

A

We need a certain amount of choice for our customers.

A

Several several of you talked about the education.

A

Talked about we're gonna have to have our infrastructure as part of this.

A

And you've made the point that our residents will look to us for rate stability.

A

Talked about offshore wind and can get the coalition to have.

A

Purchased our agreements that makes all the sense of the world.

A

Doing that through the coalition.

A

And kevin you emphasize that the regional collaboration that peace.

A

You know I just wanted to mention one thing, because I recently found out about.

E

This about a week ago, on the offshore wind commission, the kingdom of denmark.

E

uh Which is the leading country in offshore wind right now? um The king in denmark has.

E

That any country in the world who is interested in offshore wind will be provided. Full consultation.

E

Services from danish companies at no cost to them, if they're interested in pursuing or trying.

E

To look into offshore order initially about, I think, a month or so ago, this offshore commission.

E

Had said this, we just received this offer and it sounds really encouraging and it was passed on to.

E

State government and lo and behold they decided they're going to hold off on that collaboration.

E

Which was pretty disappointing when somebody offers you something for free who's, actually,.

E

A leader, okay and actually has projects ongoing in the future off the coast of maine.

E

I'm just using this ad to emphasize that the state of new hampshire is not quite on board with all.

E

This stuff, otherwise you would see them embracing the stuff, and maybe the coalition could be.

E

You know it's a big enough entity to make a dent. I know I think it's all over government.

E

And we're not just talking about the potential for electricity, we're talking about the potential for.

E

Jobs infrastructure, I mean it's a big deal and if a country like that offers you free.

E

Free consultation, services and support: why don't you take it no strings attached.

E

Any other thoughts for our questions.

D

Maybe we're missing. I just said I don't know if it's a goal but um something ben said earlier. I I.

D

Really like the idea of local generation and this idea of a reserve proportion would that be from.

D

The coalition would it be our own, just the idea that we'd have funds build our own infrastructure.

D

Not infrastructure but solar, solar or renewables more local than you know,.

D

Peter's told us that the legislation contemplates the ability for towns to do more of that kind of.

D

Additional services think so yeah we're allowed to do that. If we can't do it.

D

But the coalition is the rate setting is supposedly designed over time to build.

A

Reserves for just those things yeah, but they'll, be coalition-wide yeah. I think we were talking.

A

About that right, I don't know if it would work how it's your mark, the various communities.

A

Yeah, it sounds like it's gotta, be whether it's.

A

It just adds to the efficiencies.

D

D

We have the template letter that goes to every source to request our number of accounts and usage.

A

By classification so I'll grab that- and we know if you know it has to come from a city official.

A

Okay, I don't know who you know karen yeah, we already requested it as part of the.

D

Are you club about the generation by a sector, yeah yeah is that recent.

D

Greenhouse gas inventory- and so it's a key metric for that. Okay, but when we get it going forward.

A

Okay, so um I'll make some notes, maybe peter b and I can collaborate on draft goals for our next game.

B

I I also wanted to say that um we've talked about linking this to our climate, actually.

B

Or- and we really want to be planned that exists.

A

Our city's policies.

C

C

We should refer to.

C

C

There's so many things that we can do yes, um they're, not necessarily in the pipeline, yet.

C

And I think that some of that this is my personal view, this is being driven by the sustainability.

C

Committee and developing the climate actually driving some of those infrastructure changes.

C

And improvements that they have to get through this planning process and prioritizing what we.

C

Should be putting in the cip budget, but some of those things do come up. You know we do have.

C

uh Fast drivers that we have budgeted for the cia project not this year next year,.

C

Paving the street there's a payback. What do you think.

C

Local middle schoolers put together some pretty good ideas.

C

E

Or something I mean you know, there's there's already some out there. It's it's peacemaker.

E

Because people have things on their roof or something, but is there no way maybe.

E

Identifying I mean we can identify that. We need to know where the puc has all records, but somehow.

E

Making that into some kind of a portsmouth energy grid that could be used to build.

A

Like actual physical grid,.

E

Well, somehow, to to allow them to contribute into a bigger grid, but it'd be local, regenerated.

E

You know I mean that's the thing these people already generating local power, but they're doing.

E

It in small pieces sure right anyways. They are right now. Yes, so we have to kind of untie them.

E

And tie them into a new bridge, I'm just saying it's already happening and, as I mentioned a couple.

E

Sessions ago, um if you're not collecting renewable energy certificates for your roofed up cylinder.

E

Than every source is claiming, so I've been in that meteorite program right.

E

Yeah yeah, can you do with memphian? You can get a wreck, it depends on the state.

E

Yeah, if you're a rooftop solar, you can do it. I mean I'm getting six units every year.

E

Six megawatt hours in a year from my grid and it's being auctioned into the auction at like.

E

30 dollars a megawatt or something so maybe 100 or 150 dollars a year.

E

But you have to register to do it, you gotta, get a broker and the broker has to verify that.

E

You're doing it and then the broker has to take it selling the auction. I did it more as an academic.

E

Exercise not for financial benefit, but but it can be done if you have enough people to aggregate.

E

I think I'll close this out.

A

Officially finished, but we can continue the conversation.

A

All in favor all right, thank you.