City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Planning Board, 15 Sep 2022

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From YouTube: 9.15.2022 Planning Board

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9.15.2022 Planning Board

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Welcome everyone I'd like to call the september 15 2022 meeting of the portsmouth city planning.

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Board to order we have one more member who's coming. Ms begall is traveling.

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Mr simonis is supposed to be here, but for now.

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No corey, it's corey. Let us know at the end of the day that he would not be attending.

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We have one two, three, four, five: six. We have seven members and one on the way. First item.

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On the agenda is an update from the city attorney uh we'll have mr simones join us when he gets here.

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Describing the legislative changes that recently enacted that affect the planning board and other.

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City boards and the procedures on applications and the need to determine findings of fact.

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I'd like to begin with a minor correction to what the chairman said. I am not the city.

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Attorney she's in the back of the room, susan morale, you show up on the city website, he's.

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An a city attorney and documents we were provided attorney, robert sullivan, please.

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Formally known as yeah the.

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It is set that when the legislature is in session, no one is safe and I think that.

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Our discussion tonight may illustrate the accuracy of some of that.

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We are here to talk about a new state law just effective for the first time.

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This meeting of the planning board and uh find my glasses, I'm going to quote some of it to you.

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Effective in this session of the legislature was a omnibus catch-all um trash bin really.

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Of laws that didn't relate to each other at all the lengthy statute regulates, among other things,.

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Technical education in school districts.

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The design, engineering and say work for a new legislative parking garage in concord.

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A special fund for establishes a special fund for the administration of opioid treatment programs.

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Establishes a pilot program for individuals with developmental disabilities.

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Revises the department's authority to recover unauthorized payments by the state.

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Repeal certain reporting requirements establishes investigatory investigatory.

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Procedures and licensing criteria for recreational camps allows for alternative service and process.

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In juvenile matters creates a separate category of foster care licenses for kinship care homes.

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And the total number of other unrelated items numbering 27. now mixed.

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Almost invisibly in all of that is section 272, colon 73.

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Entitled planning and zoning administrative and enforcement procedures issuance of decisions.

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In that section, on re-adops significant portions.

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Of the laws which already regulate your conduct in making decisions, but adds this.

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The decision, meaning your decisions, zoning board decisions. Let me land use regulatory.

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Board decision the decision shall include specific written findings of fact that support the decision.

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Failure of the board to make specific written findings of fact supporting a disapproval.

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Shall be grounds for automatic reversal.

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And remand by the superior court upon appeal.

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In accordance with the time period set forth in isa, 6775 or say, 677, colon 15.

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Unless the court determines that other factors warrant the disapproval, that's it now everything.

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That we are going to discuss tonight, flows from that that black and white law that I quoted to you.

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Therefore, everything that's going to be discussed from this point onward tonight about this matter.

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Really amount to best interpretations that uh your professional planning staff, myself and.

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The chairman, after consultation, have been able to develop to guide you in dealing with this new law.

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um We are all going to give it our best effort to try to accomplish two things. I think number one.

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See that your decisions, particularly disapprovals, are defensible in court should an appeal come.

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Forward and number two recognizing that making all of these specific finding of the facts on.

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All of the elements of every case that becomes before you in the course of even one evening to.

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Say nothing a year is a massive undertaking and what we are hoping to do is to provide.

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A methodology that will make your life a little bit easier in carrying that heavy burden.

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My next I'd like to discuss for a minute what the law was before this new statute became effective.

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And the planning board has always been required to make findings of fact to support its decision. It's.

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Always been in the statute, but until the language that I quoted to you got adopted the way this.

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uh Worked out in real life was this: if someone appealed one of your decisions, then both sides.

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Would go looking for these findings? In fact, they wouldn't have them specifically listed as you're.

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Going to be listing them from now on, it would be contained in the record itself and uh in in our.

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Case in portsmouth, uh when an appeal was filed, we would usually get a transcript, not in minutes.

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But an actual transcript of your proceedings, and we just would just read what you had said.

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Line by line sentence by sentence looking for facts that can be used to defend your decision.

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In court and that's how the specific findings of fact came forward prior to this law, we found them.

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In the record and presented him to the court now you're going to have to find them yourself.

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And state them clearly in a letter of decision, so substantively what you're.

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Doing nothing really changes. You always had to be making findings of fact, but procedurally.

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You're going to have to package them and present them in a way that was not done before foreign.

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I think 270 cities and towns in the state, which means there's 540 planting boards,.

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And zoning boards, every single one of them, is in the exact same situation tonight that you are in.

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Struggling to figure out how to deal with this new burden imposed upon them by the the legislature.

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um Most of those zoning boards and planting boards are in towns, not cities.

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And the vast majority are in very small towns which do not have the major advantage which.

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You have, and that is a professional planning staff people who, by means of education and.

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Experience know how to handle these matters and can and will be there to help you make.

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These specific climbings of fact I mean, what's going to happen in the town of orford.

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But we'll be able to, I think, do a good job. We have a plan and- uh and I'm going to outline it.

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To you now but beginning at the beginning of the outline, I want to say this: it's just an outline. It.

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Is just the plan it is subject to change if, in our experience or observation, change becomes necessary.

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Or appropriate on this law, just like every law that contains ambiguities or requires refinement.

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Will be clarified by means of the court cases that it invites judges will look at these at this very.

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Statute, look at actions of planning boards such as yourself, such as the town of orford, and they.

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Will determine what is what is really required of a planning board in terms of making specific.

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Findings a fact, and as the court decisions come in, we'll read them uh and to the extent they can.

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Be of guidance to you uh in performing your duties, we will report them to you and we will.

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Make adjustments in our recommendations to you, but tonight is the kickoff uh of all of this.

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And uh we have the planning director and I and the chair have met and discussed how to proceed.

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From here we have some ideas, share them with you now subject, as I said, to the distinct possibility.

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If not probability, that our recommendations and our policies and our forms that we'll present.

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To you are going to change as experience is received, it indicates they should change so.

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As I said, one of the big immediate problems that we perceived was the time burden that making.

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Specific findings of fact will present upon you. You already have lengthy burdensome meetings and.

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It certainly is not going to speed them up that you have to stop and make findings of fact to.

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Support every element of every application and every evening, but we think we do have ways that.

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Can move it along? um Two main elements of this: are that the planning staff, the planning department.

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Have have prepared forms which you should have in front of you now and uh the the forms will.

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Assist you in identifying facts and enlisting the facts which you do find.

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I think at this point it might be appropriate to define just what is a finding effect.

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um It's easier almost to say what a finding, in fact is not.

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um The fact, uh no, that you might believe any one of you might believe that an applicant satisfies.

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The criteria contained in the ordinance to be granted approval. That statement is not a fact.

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That statement is a conclusion of law. Conclusion of law is what is reached in the.

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End when you make your decisions, it is not what is required in your specific findings. Effect.

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Another thing which is uh is not a fact is anything that's irrelevant to the application.

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Before you so, for example, if a particular real estate developer has been here many times before,.

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And you have either a good experience uh history or a bad experience. History with that developer.

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um That, too, is not a fact that the developer might have done what they said last time around or.

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Failed to do what they said last time around: it's not a specific finding, a fact and the reason why.

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It's not is even though it might be true, it is not relevant to any of these criteria that you.

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Are required to apply to the applications in front of you, the specific findings, the.

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Fact that you have to find are the ones which support or oppose the criteria listed in the.

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Ordinance that you are supposed to apply in connection with any particular application.

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um Here's a clear example in a in a site review situation. uh You know.

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Where you know one of the traditional site review issues is drainage, site drainage.

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If you find that the amount of storm water that might fall in a parking lot during a a.

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Predictable storm is greater than the diameter of the pipes necessary to carry that storm water away.

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From that parking lot, then the statement that the drainage infrastructure is insufficient to.

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Handle the demand that will come on this parking lot, that's a fighting effect and those are the.

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Kind of things that you need to be looking for to listen your specific list that you'll be prepared.

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So that's what a finding a fact is: it's, where the finding a fact is not to help you.

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Make these findings a fact the really the initial heavy lifting is going to come from the.

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Planning department staff, as we said by education and experience, professionals who know what to.

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Look for know what they're doing, and they will suggest for the planning board to find what the.

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Staff feels are relevant facts that will bear on whether or not a particular application should be.

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Granted or denied the statute makes it your responsibility to actually find the facts.

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So whatever the staff should suggest to, you will certainly be helpful, but.

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You need to make the decision in the end, to satisfy this law.

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And in order to the second step in this process that we're recommending to you has come out of.

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uh Discussion with the chair, and uh we feel that the process will go more smoothly for everyone.

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If the chair takes perhaps a greater role in individual decision making on applications than.

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You have seen in the past on that greater role really being to marshall, the board to move towards.

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Making the specific findings of fact in writing that you now have to to make the chair just by.

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Having it in his head that you have to get through this hurdle before you complete, your decision will.

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Guide you towards the hurdle and ask appropriate questions to help get you over it. For example,.

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What does the planning board feel about the drainage calculations on this plant.

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As an example, so you will have form from the staff you will have.

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Suggested relevant findings of fact that you can find from the staff you will have a chairman.

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Guiding you towards the decision you're, making process the proper decision-making process that.

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You have to make which will lead to these specific findings of fact, you should have.

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In front of you now, as I said, that form what you can be used for tonight's purposes uh and.

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Is the only form that's going to exist until it gets changed? And I like to briefly discuss that.

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It will be entitled procedural guidance. Finding them fact forms.

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After a couple of sentences that basically just describe more tertially, what I just.

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Said it then goes to procedures for review and the type of motions that you might make and.

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I lost my glasses. This is presentation is going to change dramatically.

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It's been determined after some discussion with the chair and.

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In the uh drip planning director that most of these new changes will come into.

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Effect after you've followed your normal processes and held your public hearing.

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Don't see where anything really has to change up until that point in any application.

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But after you've had your public hearing on every application that comes before you.

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As that part of that process of marshalling you to head in.

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The direction mandated by the statute, the chair, will invite a review and discussion of.

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Draft supplemental information and findings which will have been presented to you in writing by the.

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Planning staff, as I said, you were the ones that need to make the findings, not the planning staff.

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As I would think would be the case in the normal application, there will be.

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No disagreement about these things when the staff reports to you that something appears.

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To be a fact, you will look at it and you will agree, I would think in most cases and.

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And simply adopt the recommendation of the staff for that finding effect.

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This is intended to accomplish two of the things I said we were trying to do for you.

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um Simplify your burden and direct you towards the relevant criteria to make a decision.

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So that will come first, but at that point.

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First major decision point arises if everybody's in agreement, if the staff is in agreement, if you.

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Were in agreement with the staff, and if the result of that agreement is, it appears that there are.

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Sufficient relevant findings of fact to support this application and it's going to be granted.

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And then at that point.

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In a simplified case, an easiest manner, you would simply adopt these facts, which have been suggested.

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And you'd have to do it by vote, saying you're doing it and then, with that in place and by a.

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Means of another motion: you would approve the the application in front of you that, of course,.

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Is the easy case they will not all be easy cases. There will be cases where there's not.

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A general agreement on what the facts should be or whether planning staff recommendations should.

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Be accepted or whether other facts need to be brought into the matter and adopted.

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To adopt the fact or to make any finding a fact, you need a majority vote of the planning board.

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I mean that and we have to be able to show that there was in fact a vote on any some.

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Specific fighting fact, by which a majority of those president voting and on the issue before.

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The planning board agreed to the specific fact absent that majority vote on specific finding a.

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Fact that fact is not found and it cannot be in the decision letter as supporting your decision.

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So this is the kind of thing that the chair will be mindful of in.

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By means of asking questions and requesting votes, he will bring you to that point.

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um So the everything really flows from that two-step process, you'll you'll, get facts.

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From staff you will consider them adopt them, add to them subtract for them. Whatever you.

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Feel is necessary and then, after that, the second motion, the motion, whether the grant or deny an.

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Application is likely to be suggested in some at this point. The process might actually be easier.

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Because after you've gone through the facts and major findings, if you find, for example,.

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That the fact support every item of the criteria they're supposed to apply. Well then,.

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Your decision suggests itself at that point and it would be a motion to approve the second motion.

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That I talked about and uh life will go on and I expect it's going to be the most typical case. The.

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Untypical case will be the difficult one and, as you know, better than anybody, you do get difficult.

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Decisions to make from time to time and on those you are just going to have to debate facts among.

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Yourself until with regard to each necessary relevant specific fact, you can get five votes.

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To make a decision, whether the fact exists or doesn't, uh this is where the process might slow.

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Meetings down substantially but there'll be so many votes required in a disputed case.

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uh You know with debate on each vote debate on each track. It could get very difficult.

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But hopefully, with the assistance of the staff- and you see plainly how it works by looking at.

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The the form that's been provided to you. We will be able to to move along uh quickly enough, so that.

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It's not necessary to start having two meetings every month, for example, to complete this.

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So that is what the new law is, how we are going to try to help you apply it, how we think that's.

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Going to work out, um most importantly, as I said, the courts will be clarifying this as time goes.

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On everyone's experience will be clarifying this, as time goes on, your own experience will clarify.

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This as time goes on and we'll make adjustments in the forms and the recommendations as time goes on.

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um But we have to apply the law, starting with the next application. That appears in front of you.

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Tonight, um that's basically the presentation, uh but I'm happy to talk further and answer any.

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Questions that I'm able to answer before we have questions of attorney sullivan. I just want to note.

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That mr simonis is here and I'd like you to sit for ms magala tonight, absolutely sarah's late.

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Any questions for attorney sullivan.

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Yes, I have a small list: um there's no changes as to whether or not we need a majority vote.

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Or a two-thirds vote right, there's no changes to that. What I want to make sure that we can do when.

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Because the real relevance of all this is when your denials are appealed to court.

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So that's when the rubber will hit the road on these things and I do not want.

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To have to have debates in the courtroom as to whether you actually found the fact or not,.

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It's the two of you may have found it in the remainder of the board, didn't find it.

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And we don't really want that to be what the court case is about. I mean if we can show with regard to.

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All the specific relevant facts that a majority of the planning boards voted to find that fact.

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Then we will never have a court debate about whether the board found it or not. So it would.

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Be a majority, um do we have to find findings of facts on determinations of complete completeness.

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No, I don't think so. I think it's finding the fact which support the elements of the criteria for.

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The decision and then my last question is: are we allowed under statute to limit the times of our.

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Meetings, I'm sorry, are we allowed to limit the times of our meetings like how long they can go.

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On I'm just imagining I might be here when the crow starts going for breakfast, so I was trying.

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To make sure could we if this starts becoming, you know we know it's going to be a complicated there.

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Are rules that apply public notice rules yeah, but you in fact can limit the length of your meetings.

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um But you might force yourself in a situation apparently have more meetings. If you do so.

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Members of the public have a right to know when you are meeting and what you were going.

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To decide when you meet and that's the reason why public notice is issued if you change anything.

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From what is published in the public notice, then either you have to re-publish your.

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Notice or you have to announce to everyone who's present in the room, the first time.

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Exactly where and when the issue is going to be brought back, thank you. That's all.

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Yes, sorry sullivan, can they uh planning board member offer their own criteria at the meeting.

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If it's not listed on the handout ahead of time, yes, wait bob one. Second, the criteria.

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Is established by right by the regulations so in the code in the code in the regular in the.

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Zoning code, it actually says for planning board to approve a site plan. It must make.

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The following findings: for a planning board to approve an accessory dwelling unit. It must make.

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The following findings: so I think that you can amend the column that says supporting information.

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um And that really is what bob's referring to is the relevant facts? That's the column where you can.

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Say you know, I don't think it actually. I have a I'd like to add to that propose and a change.

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To that, or in addition to that, but the criteria themselves are embedded within the code into the.

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Zoning ordinance, so I would say that introducing a new criteria would not be consistent with the.

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Regulations would you disagree with that bob? No, no! I you! You can offer another criteria as being.

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Relevant but it has to be from the ordinance. You can't invent a criteria, I'm just trying to think.

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Of a situation say, the planning staff missed a criteria. Can that be added at the meeting? Well, I.

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Think that's true with both respective criteria and supporting facts. Okay, I if I can help with.

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That there's some of the criteria are very, very broad, like under site plan. One of them is adheres.

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With all the city regulations- and we certainly don't want to list all the city regulations so.

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That could be an example where you might find something that wasn't listed, because we're not.

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Going to list all of those right, that's what yeah that is! Yeah appreciate that clarification.

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Any other questions for bob.

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um Mechanically, I'm going to try to help with this. It's going to be a learning process and.

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What I would hope we can do when we get to that point after we get through an application of.

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Public hearing I'd like to go through the points and reach consensus, we're looking and making.

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Sure for folks are in agreement, so we don't have to vote on every single finding. We can.

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If the board chooses to vote on every single finding, we can do that, but I think picking up.

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More councilor moreau said I'd like to be home before the cruiser applying out for breakfast.

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um So I think I think we can do it that way. Let's we'll learn together and make sure that it.

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It works I'll, make notes and for those of us with ipads and apple devices, I can share electronically.

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And I think I think I can share with stephanie in the back of the run. I think that worked so.

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I think we're ready to try it. Today's new world.

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uh Next on the agenda is our minutes from the august 18th meeting and folks had a chance to review those.

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Any discussion, all those in favor aye opposed. We have determinations to completeness the first.

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One is request of hemlock way: investments llc is owner for property at zero petition, drive.

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Requesting preliminary final subdivision approval to subdivide one existing lot into two lots.

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So moved to approve second, a second, all those in favor aye aye opposed it's accepted as complete.

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Request of bromley, portsmouth llc is honor for property at 1, 1465, woodbury avenue, requesting.

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An amended site plan and review approval for the demolition of existing structure, parking utility.

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Infrastructure planning department recommends this also be accepted as complete motion.

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Removed second, second, all those in favor aye aye opposed.

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Except it is complete for those anybody in the room, the request of coventry realty llc for.

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Property 111 state street has been withdrawn so that we will not be acting on that this evening.

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The next is uh again requested: hemlockway realty investments, llc owner for property at.

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Zero petition drive requesting preliminary and final subdivision approval to subdivide a lot.

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With an area of 137, 549 square feet and 414 feet continuous street frontage on a private road into.

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Two lots as follows for pros lot: one with an area of 92, 908 square feet and 150 feet of continuous.

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Street frontage on a private road proposed lot, two with an area of forty four thousand six hundred.

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Forty one square feet and 264 feet of continuous street frontage on a private road properties on.

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Assessor mapped 283, lot 11 and lies within the single family residence. A district who's here to.

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Speak to this application good evening, thanks for hearing me tonight, I'm mike garibview with hemlock.

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Way: realty investments and gary planning consultants. I guess one in the same person.

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um Was here before the board a few months ago requesting a final extension of our subdivision.

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Approval which, unfortunately, we were not able to work with staff to complete a final condition to.

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Allow for mylaw recordation, so we are back here again tonight to seek a new approval.

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Which would which would replace the expired one that expired. I believe, last month on the 18th.

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So I don't know if I need to go through a detailed presentation. I certainly can, but um it's as as the.

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Chair uh announced it's a two lot subdivision off of a off off of martha terrace. It is um a little.

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I guess complicated in in some ways, but rather simple in others. It's a simple two lot subdivision.

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That meets all the requirements, so dimensional requirements are for frontage and lot size and.

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Setbacks and utilities that will serve the site, etc. uh It is accessed via a small portion of.

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Right-Of-Way, that is in a built condition that is owned by the city, but not maintained by the city.

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And then it is also accessed by another portion of right away. That is the top button. I hope.

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It's not the top button which button is it again? You have to hold it down. I have to hold it down.

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There it is so in a smaller portion or an additional portion of right away. That is.

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Privately owned by neighboring lots uh both to the to the east and the west, uh and so that's how the.

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The property is accessed and also subdivided off that private road, so we've been through tac again.

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um We all we have previously received approval from the conservation commission, or I should.

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Say at least recommendations from them for the conditional use permit for our buffer impacts to.

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The the wetlands as a result of rebuilding the road- that's that's presently there and so we're.

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Just back here tonight to seek a new approval, I think we're in working with beverly. I think we're.

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We're there again but we're, I think, we're finally there, so we should be recording mylar within.

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I would say I would hope within the next 60 days, that's a reasonable target and I guess if you have.

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Any questions I'd be happy to answer it's this. It's the same plan that we approved previously.

B

Exactly same plan you approved previously two months ago, um as far as the extension and it's.

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The same plan that the planning board approved back in february of 2021.. And if I can add to that.

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um That uh attack had no new comments and uh mr garpe did submit a letter summarizing how he's.

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Met all previous planning board stipulations, and we also reviewed that with legal today and.

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um Really, the only stipulations we have are just the standard stipulations that we normally provide.

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The reason this was held up had to do with the portion that is owned by the city, making sure.

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Before we, we offer that to all the abutting property owners, of which there are three.

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Making sure that they're adequately noticed and that, if they chew, we can't, we can't.

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Do a release deed to somebody who hasn't actually told us that they want to receive.

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The property because we are retaining public access and maintenance on that property, so.

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That just really creates a tax responsibility for them, so we want to make sure we do that outreach.

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Correctly and that the folks who would like to retain um the ownership of that in this case.

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It's hemlock realty and what we understand to be the uh the butter to the north will uh we'll.

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Release it to them, so it was really just getting that squared away, which required a little bit of.

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Research and to make sure that we did it correctly, that's really why it got held up, but we think we.

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Have a good strategy for getting that final item corrected in this uh in this uh subdivision plan.

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Which, unfortunately, did expire and required a new submittal, but there were no new comments.

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Any questions the applicant or the planning director.

A

So, in a nutshell, we held it up, we already approved it. uh I think it was getting that last. I would say.

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That it got held up because of the nature of the paper street, originally that kind of pushed it.

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All the way to august, but then the last part uh we had asked there's a prior stipulation. You may.

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Recall we asked, and the planning board approve the stipulation saying that they will do outreach to.

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The neighbors and that the neighbors can waive their rights. One neighbor never responded. So we.

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Wanted to take it into our own hands and do an official certified letter and hopefully.

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um You know, under a are um outgoing city attorney's advice that we go.

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Ahead and maybe do even in-person outreach, so we're just trying to do our due diligence.

A

But we still have to make the same motions to approve it like we did last time. You just pretend like it's brand new one except there's you.

B

Have to go through the process that was just described first copy that.

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Any other questions any other questions of the applicant.

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Am I the first findings of facts? Yes, you are, you are okay, stand back, it's a whole new brave world.

D

I'll get your pin on the way out. I mean this is worth it now. Then it's still an emotion, emotion,.

H

Is based on well yeah. We have to have a public pool, but as long as it's what was prior approved.

H

And they continue to do what was requested. All we're doing is looking to grant an extension.

F

Yeah we have new approval, the new approval, sorry, it's a whole new service, the other one expired.

B

Okay, gotcha and we do have draft sample motions. If you find the findings. The fact.

F

That are, for this item, lu 22174, and it should be on the top of your packet. If you go to the.

F

End, we have some sample motion language for you and that's for each one of the items.

F

Tonight, we'll we're trying to help a little bit so this one 72. apologies, 172., no worries.

B

Any other questions I'm going to open up the public hearing.

B

Is anybody here wants to speak too far against this application.

B

Everybody on zoom.

B

One more chance anybody here wish to speak too far against this application.

B

Let us close the public hearing.

B

Now we do the finest effect.

B

So I assume everybody has the draft and what, as I described earlier and as attorney sullivan.

B

Described in better detail, the staff is prepared this draft for us to work from this one's actually.

B

Fairly easy in comparison to what some might be um most of them relate to the fact that this is.

B

Just a subdivision and tac has approved it recently, reapproved it that's proved it at.

B

Least, twice or three times, I guess at this point so number one, the subject of rules and regulations.

B

The application was reviewed and approved by tack. Is everybody in agreement that that satisfies that.

B

First criteria as a finding, we make a finding that we have satisfied that yes, yes census. Yes,.

B

Second is recurrence for the final plot. Similarly, we've been reviewed by attack.

B

Fund that it was in conformance, do we have any disagreements? We.

D

Agree, yes, general requirements again, it was reviewed by attack and if anybody.

B

Wants to refer to subdivision regulations for more detail at section six, roman six.

B

um Again, we've approved this previously tax approved it recently.

B

So we need to make a finding that this conforms to the general requirements under section 6.

D

Yes, are we good with that? Yes, yes, no objections, design standards; similarly, section seven.

B

Everybody good with that. Yes, yes, anybody wish to add anything to these findings.

D

um Looks good the second time around, so I I that's not a finding.

D

Come on you're, not letting me have any fun.

F

I do want to add one thing that I think is not correct in the emotions that there is.

F

Also requests, I believe, to for a modification to the street standards that is before I don't.

F

Think that we did 18 feet versus so I think that's in the is in the memo, but in the memo.

F

But it did not make the sample motion, so I think it would, I think, yeah. I think we.

B

Have to refer back to the memo after we go through if we are in agreement that we have.

B

We've gone through, as we have the findings of fact. I have yes yeses circled on all of them.

D

So you're looking for yourself, I would like I'd like a motion to propose that.

B

We strike draft from the findings of fact, as presented to us, make those findings a fact.

B

Is adopted as a part of this application? Now we have to move to find that the subdivision.

D

Application meets the standards set forth and the subdivision regulations and adopt.

D

The supplemental information as findings of fact, as presented.

D

Second, after this one, anybody have any comments. Anything to add all those in favor.

B

Adopted then, then we still have to make another.

D

How we move to the actual we move to approve the subdivision, as presented.

D

And the first or do we have to do that and then the votes for the circulations. That's.

D

Where I'm confused, I think you should do the modification first and then yeah. Okay,.

B

um Yeah we have to grant the waiver we're gonna wear the waiver before we can prove. Okay, that's.

D

Where I was good and confused all right, so the first motion would be to vote to grant the waiver.

D

To the residential street minimum standards to allow 18 feet of pavement, where width, where 32.

D

Feet is required. That's a motion I'll. Second, it was thank you any discussion. All those in favor.

B

Aye opposed waivers granted. Now we need a motion. Yes, now we need to move to approve.

D

The subdivision is presented with the uh the preliminary and final.

D

Subdivision with the included 2.1 through 2.5 stipulations in the memo second discussion.

B

All those in favor aye opposed anonymously adopted. You are to approved again thanks so much. I feel.

E

Honored. Congratulations. Thank you for giving us a fairly easy one to start. Let's practice.

H

Next item on the agenda is request of blues o'leary. Family living trust is owner.

B

For property located at 225 weibert street requesting conditional use permit approval.

B

As permit under section 10814-4 point 40 of the zoning ordinance to construct an attack.

B

Accessory dwelling in it, this property is located in assessor map, 133 lot, 54 and.

B

Located in the general residence, a district who is here to speak to this application,.

I

um Good evening, mr chairman and members of the board, my name is arilda dench. I've prepared.

I

This application, and I'm here to present it tonight for the blessed o'leary, family trust.

I

um And I wanted to tell you that mark o'leary is here in the red t-shirt.

I

And he's very hard of hearing so he's following the proceedings on his phone.

I

Which is transcribing everything for him, so just you know he's not checking his email.

I

He's you know he's following along and if you speak clearly that will help him.

I

um So I'm just going to go through the application here. If you look at sheet 1.0.

I

It's okay, if it doesn't come up there, but the first page. It's there's a neighborhood plan.

I

That shows the general neighborhood and the size of his lot.

I

um In relation to those in the area- and it's uh you know larger than the.

I

Surrounding areas a lot and it's a corner lot, so that makes it extra visible to the neighbors.

I

We have taken care of this application to have the least impact on the neighbors.

I

As possible, because they're concerned about this open space.

I

um Then yeah this is the sheet of month. So then, if you look at.

I

The zoning information the schedule on the left down at the bottom, you can see.

I

The maximum building coverage allowed for general residence- a is 25 percent.

I

And we even with the additions, we will only be at 18.2 percent, the minimum open space.

I

Required is 30 percent and with the additions we will, we will have a nice generous 67.3 percent.

I

So we're meeting the requirements there then going to sheet 1.1. This is the existing site plan.

I

And you can see that the two buildings on the lot, the main house and the shed.

I

Are very modest, lock coverage and then there's a nice big backyard behind the house. There's.

I

There are a couple of decks and those will be removed to make room for the accessory dwelling.

I

Unit the lot is nice and deep 157 feet. Deep hawthorne street is to the south, so the sun.

I

Is coming from the hawthorne street side of the building then going to the next sheet page 1.2.

I

Here you can see what we're proposing for the site plan. uh There's the parking area, there's a small.

I

Shaded area- and that represents where we're adding pavement so that the parking for the.

I

Primary residents will be tandem parking and then the adu parking is separate. Next to that, and then.

I

You can see the um there's a connector, a 16 foot, wide connector that connects between the primary.

I

Residence and the proposed adu and then that connector um we're going to have a handicapped.

I

Accessible lift the adu is going to be for mark's, mother, who's, elderly and that's a possibility that.

I

That will have to happen and what that creates is, in essence, two handicapped, accessible units.

I

Here the one is at grade level, the adu and then his home will also become handicapped, accessible.

I

And I think the nice thing here is that there will be no ramps on the outside of the building at all.

I

Sometimes those are unattractive for the home and the neighborhood, so those will not be necessary.

I

um With this plan, there's no accessory dwelling unit near the rear property line.

I

So, keeping away from the neighbors it's closest to hawthorne street.

I

So, keeping away from the two neighbors on both sides.

I

And I this meets the city master plan to address the increased population through increased density.

I

But to modify that we're, adding screening on both sides of the of the lot. The um between.

I

Them and the neighbor at number, 205, weibert and then between them and the neighbor behind at.

I

I don't have that one on there.

I

So um I also wanted to point out that, with this, the addition of the connector and the.

I

Adu, there's only going to be a single rear entry to the home, so that suggests that it's.

I

Suggests the public that it's a single-family residence there's only going to be one rear.

I

Entry and from there the person would go right or left into the primary residence or the adu.

I

And there's only a single patio out back, so that also suggests that it's a single family resonance.

I

um And because the adu is pulled far away from the neighbors at 205.,.

I

um Even with winter sunlight, there shouldn't be any shadow on their home or a very small one.

I

And I also wanted to say that um with this these additions here, we will have.

I

In the final construction drawings package of storm water management plan, so any water.

I

Running off the buildings or through the lot will be sure to go where it's supposed.

I

To go and not go where it's not supposed to go, so that's also a concern of ours.

I

So that's it for the site plans and then the next is the photos.

I

So the first sheet is the existing house.

I

And you can see it's a traditional home from, I believe 1850. It has the heavy gable trim and.

I

Heavy returns- and I just want to note we will be removing the shutters on this house. They weren't.

I

Original and they're just crowded in um and the house also currently has vinyl siding and aluminum.

I

Sheathing over the trim, so that's hiding the original nice traditional trim and in the future.

I

They will be planning to remove that and restore what's underneath. So when we designed the adu and.

I

Connector we were showing traditional trim on it, rather than use, vinyl siding and an aluminum trim.

I

Sheathing we're going to use real traditional trim that will echo what's underneath. What's there now.

I

Then the next page has photographs of the adjacent properties in the upper left picture.

I

We see the property immediately to the left of 225 ybird as you're. Looking at the front of the.

I

Building you can see the shed on the blessillary property in the back and then the photo in the.

I

Upper right is the property directly behind 25, hawthorne street and lower left is across.

I

Whiteboard street from 225 flybird, that's 232, wyvern, that's directly across and then finally.

I

In the lower right, that's the across hawthorne street right at the corner, 243 wybridge street.

I

On the next sheet page 3.1, here's the floor plan for the connector and the adu. You can.

I

See again, the single shared entry with handicap accessibility for both units.

I

um The the adu meets the 750 square foot max total gross floor area.

I

And no more than two bedrooms. So that's what we have here and the idea with the second bedroom is.

I

That um mark's mother may eventually need a live-in caretaker, and so we have the second.

I

Bedroom for that and in the future there could you know, a small family could be housed here.

I

um Going to the next page 4.0 here, I'm showing a cross section through.

I

The connector, so you can see why we've made the pitch of this roof lower and that's to.

I

um Missed the windows upstairs, so it doesn't interfere with them and the.

I

Front porch: that's existing on this house is also a low pitch, so it echoes that.

I

And going to the next sheet page 4.1: this is the view from hawthorne street.

I

um And here in my notes, I'm saying that the additions will have collaborate, siding four inch.

I

Exposure to match existing that the new windows style will match or coordinate with the existing.

I

Historic double hung windows, which are two over one lights on the main house. The new trim and.

I

Overhangs will match the original, which is under the existing vinyl and aluminum trim. Sheathing.

I

And then the new roofing material, the architectural grade, asphalt, roofing shingles.

I

And you can see that the ridge of the adu is four feet below the eve line of the existing.

I

Main house so we're trying to keep the roof line down to impact the neighbors as little as possible.

I

The next sheet page 4.2, is the view from the rear from the backyard.

I

And here you can see that um we've made the pitch of the adu a little bit lower.

I

Than the main house, and that's again to keep the ridge line down and keep it looking modest.

I

And I also want to note that the lighting fixtures will all be dark sky friendly.

I

Lights and not sending a lot of glare around the neighborhood to the left, you can see the level.

I

Of hawthorne street, which is up high, the whole lot slopes down from hawthorne street down to.

I

The opposite side, and that creates a low area in which to place the adu and it puts the adu.

I

At the same level as the parking so that a handicapped person can easily get in there.

I

um In the foreground, you can see this single patio.

I

Then going to sheet 4.3: this is the view from the driveway side.

I

From the side of the of the house on which is the property 205 wybridge street.

I

And here we're looking at the adu on the left and then the connector in the middle.

I

And there's a little covered entry there. The doorway going in is a an old-fashioned door.

I

Traditional door to coordinate with the one that's existing on the front of the house, there's a small.

I

Roof extended over the existing basement door to keep water from ending up in there.

I

And you can see that everything is coordinated to match with the existing house.

I

The next sheet sheet 5.1- this is a massing study that compares the facade areas of the.

I

Different buildings and I have two different version of versions of this sheet, because the.

I

Ordinance wasn't completely clear as to how you count the facade areas with an adu and connector.

I

So in this version I have the house and connector counted together, because the building area of the.

I

Connector is counted with the main house and not with the adu, so those two together is 1138.

I

Square feet of facade area, the adu facade area is 298 square feet together, 1400 36 square feet.

I

Total facade and doing the math that makes the 298 21 of the total, which is well below the 40.

I

Percent required also, I wanted to note that there's a heavy dashed line going across the.

I

um Center of the adu and that's the level of hawthorne street sidewalk in the foreground,.

I

So you can see how high up it is, and then I think you have in your packages also an additional sheet.

I

That looks just like this one 5.1, but it's dated september 7. and this shows.

I

The facade areas figured differently with just the existing house and porch are figured.

I

Together and that's 961 square feet and then the connector and adu are figured together.

I

And that's 477 square feet and doing the math there. The adu facade is still just 33 of the.

I

Total facade areas so still well below the 40 percent and then the other sheet.

I

I have in the package is sheet 6.1, which outlines the criteria from the ordinances.

I

First, section is, um will be gone over in the findings of fact. Do you want me to go through this.

I

Still in in my package or wait for the findings of fact, or does it not matter? Well, you won't.

B

Address the findings of fact, but um it's up to you if you wish to go through them. I think okay.

I

This was in our packet, so hopefully the board has reviewed them. Okay, it's it's pretty quick.

I

um Basically, 10.814.31 that the principal dwelling unit and adu shall not be separated in ownership.

I

And that is the plan, of course, that um they will both be continued to be owned by the um bless.

I

O'leary, family trust and then the next to the 10.814.32 and 10.814.321 that either the dwelling.

I

The principal dwelling unit or the accessory dwelling unit shall be occupied by the owner.

I

um As his or her principal place of residence- and that is true- that will be happening.

I

And then the last one 10.814.33 that neither the principal dwelling unit nor the accessory.

I

Dwelling unit shall be used for any business, except that the property owner may have a home.

I

Occupation use in the unit that he or she occupies as allowed or permitted elsewhere,.

I

In this ordinance and one of the trustees of the bless o'leary, family living trust does.

I

Have a home occupation use in the principal dwelling unit and that will continue the next.

I

Session section is the conditional use, permit approval criteria, and I wrote this out here.

I

10.243.21 and that specifies the design and scale of the prose structure, the nature and intensity of.

I

The proposed use and the layout and design of the site will be compatible with adjacent and nearby.

I

Properties, buildings and uses and will complement the character of surrounding development and we'll.

I

Encourage the appropriate and orderly development use of land and buildings in the surrounding area.

I

And we feel that this meets all that criteria for each of these ma'am. You can just state how you.

B

Address them, you don't have to recite the section of the order. Oh okay, okay, the next one 10.243.2122.

I

um So all the public and private infrastructure services are available and adequate for this.

I

Property, the next one, the surrounding streets, have adequate vehicular and pedestrian infrastructure.

I

Infrastructure to serve this additional adu, which should have very little impact.

I

um And then the 0.24 it shouldn't have any adverse impacts on the abundance and.

I

Surrounding properties, on the account of traffic noise, odors vibrations, we've kept the building.

I

Again towards hawthorne street and they'll be screening shrubbery, and it's just going to be a.

I

Home so there shouldn't be any adverse impacts and because the building is designed to complement the.

I

Existing structure, it's the structure- will not contribute to any significant decline.

I

In property, values of the adjacent properties, tastefully designed and still plenty of open.

I

Space on the lot, and that's basically everything I have thank you very much. Thank you very much.

B

You first, um it looks like in your entrance that the lift is actually being put in for the main.

D

Residence and not the adus that correct well, what it's there for is so that mark's mother can get.

I

From her unit into his unit, okay, but that because that's the difference, that's the purpose now.

I

um But in the future it could be used as a handicapped accessible for the main house.

I

So then both units become handicapped, accessible, but right now it's you have to get between the two.

I

So I can, I keep going. I happen to drive by this earlier today, and um there is seems to be a.

D

Much bigger grade than what you've put in your plans from hawthorne street down into that okay.

D

um And it seems like there's going to be some major. Is this going I'm assuming on a slab so.

D

Yes, do you have any background on the drainage and how the drainage is going to work, because.

D

I have a feeling this is going to be a big issue. If it is, um we will be hiring, then a storm water.

I

Management firm out of portsmouth, that's um uh gwm, consulting stormwater professional storm.

I

Water management engineer, because we want to make sure the water is directed to the street or.

I

Whatever, wherever it should be going, so it doesn't create any prop issues for surrounding properties.

I

Okay thanks. Thank you andrew.

J

um This is maybe a point of clarification and another question for you, but if this.

J

Is approved, are we approving it as a handicap, accessible adu? Is that part of the stipulation.

F

You're just approving the adu, I don't think that I mean that happens to be a component.

F

That she shared information for you, but it's just you're really giving a conditional use.

F

Permit for an attached accessory drawing unit that would not and that's the way.

F

They have it fitted and they've shared that information, but that would not be.

F

A condition that would have to retain on site sure. So to that point I note the lift and the.

J

Circles with the dotted circles within the plan for turning radius and accessibility purposes.

J

Can you go into further detail about other ada compliant aspects of this design? Oh sure,.

I

So here you can see on the floor plan. There will be a short ramp that goes up eight inches from.

I

The walkway that comes from the parking area onto the porch and that door going in will make be a.

I

Low threshold door, so it can be easily rolled over in the bathroom there's the circle for.

I

Full turnaround and to have that you get a wall hung sink so that the person's feet can swing.

I

Around underneath the sink and that's why it's shown going underneath the sink a little bit.

I

Then it's just convenient to have.

I

A second bedroom for the in case the person needs extra live-in care 24-hour care. um Thus, there's a.

I

Rectangle in front of the sink in the bathroom, and that indicates a space for a wheelchair.

I

To pull in that, there's enough space for a wheelchair to pull in there in front of the sink.

I

um With the kitchen, it's a matter of picking out the proper appliances that meet the criteria.

I

And I guess that's it. The circle in the bedroom showing there's enough room to maneuver in there.

I

The entry ramp, so that's going to be, let's see, I have a scale with me. It's a slope is.

I

One to ten, you can go between 1.8. If you need to and 1 to 12. um excuse me about 80 inches, then.

I

If you, if you hold on hold on, let you know.

B

um Andrew, why why you curious about that? It just wasn't delineated on the plan, so I'm wondering if.

J

It's five feet or ten feet or 12 feet just overall, the guest design and it's about 10 feet long. That.

I

um Sloped area there yeah about 10 feet so suffice to say that there are some.

J

I guess constraints or requirements set by the ada compliance and the ada design.

J

But outside of the bedroom space, bathroom space and the access.

J

The kitchen, dining and living space are not necessarily particularly designed for the.

J

Ada use itself well, as I've had it, it all can be used. It's for the kitchen. It's a matter of.

I

um Picking out the right appliances, there's plenty of space there to roll in front of all of those.

I

um Those stations and there's plenty of room around the table and living area.

B

Okay, so it can be it's not a requirement it. You know it's a point of information, so really what.

J

I'm trying to arrive at for myself visually is whether or not it has to be 750 square.

J

Feet and if it is 750 square feet, how much of that is due to requirement or if it's a.

J

Desire and preference you know, so that's that's the nature of the question more so.

I

It's partly both um because to make the unit nice and spacious.

I

For whomever might live there sure in the future, as well as the handicapped person.

B

Any other questions.

B

I have a question because we're working on this section of the ordinance did you find the 750.

B

Square feet to work with what you're trying to do? Yes, yep, it was tight, but it all seemed to fit.

I

In there yep and the space connecting between the accessory unit and the house, you've noted that on.

B

The plans of shared space and just for the board's information that doesn't count as gross floor area.

B

So it's not part of the scale. Thank you for noting that on the plan. Okay, any other questions.

B

I'm going to open up the public hearing. Anyone here wish to speak 2-4 against this application.

H

On the ground, and and you can, you can take your seat- okay,.

B

You cannot nobody, you cannot answer questions that may come up during the hearing, but you.

B

Can address the board with anything you wish to address? If something comes up, you wish to address.

H

Good evening um my name is mark anderson, my wife robin and I live on 25 hawthorne.

H

Street which directly abuts this property at 225 weibird, we have lived there for in our home for.

H

About 27 years, this project is a detached. Adu was previously denied by the board of adjustments due.

H

To its scale and non-compliance in response to the concerns raised by my wife and I our neighbors and.

H

The board of adjustment, this project has now been redesigned as a an attached adu. Firstly,.

H

We appreciate mark o'leary's efforts to modify the project to comply with the city ordinances.

H

And reduce the direct impact to our property. However, we still feel that the concern we.

H

Still have concerns about the scale of proposed buildings. This is not simply an apartment over.

H

In a garage it's a full house, it will overwhelm the lot and the neighborhood and we recognize the.

H

Proposed structures comply with. With this, we recognize that the proposed structures comply.

H

With the zoning ordinances, but we do not believe that the scale of this project aligns with the.

H

Intent of an adu additionally, we are saddened by the such a dramatic loss of our open space.

H

Most concerning is that this project increases the density of the neighborhood by introducing.

H

A potential rental property, as you've heard, there's been several comments about. You know.

H

His mother's going to live there in the near term, but you know what's going to happen in the future.

H

We are very concerned that, as the city continues to debate short-term rentals, that this too.

H

Might become an airbnb destination, despite city regulations, airbnb locations exist in portsmouth.

H

Today, mr o'leary has stated that is not his intention to rent this property. However, what about.

H

The next owner, a rental property next door, will never negatively affect the value of our home. The.

H

Decision to approve this adu will have a long-term impact for our hawthorne community. This will be.

H

Forever, introducing adus of the scale will erode our long-established neighborhoods over time. We.

H

Fear that our neighborhoods will transition from communities to market driven revenue, generators.

H

Adus will not solve our workforce. Housing problems, no reduced rents in the portsmouth market. Please.

H

Note that we have shared our comments and concerns with the property owner. Thank you.

B

Thank you. Anyone else like to speak too far against this application.

B

Please state your name and address.

K

Brenner and I'm the owner of 34 hawthorne street, where I have lived since 1982.

K

My house faces the property at 225, robert street, their side, picket fence and grassy.

K

Backyards, surrounded by big old trees is my view directly across the street.

K

I was the young newcomer all those years ago and immediately embraced those who were mostly.

K

Older neighbors, at the time over the years, I've established long-time friendships with newcomers.

K

As well, it has been a wonderful community of friendship and camaraderie properties.

K

Turn over and with new owners, our little slice of portsmouth has remained comfortably intact.

K

About a year ago, upon meeting the wife of the applicant as they had just purchased to 25 weigert.

K

Street it was mentioned that they had plans to build a small structure for his elderly mother.

K

Then this past june, mr o'leary informed each of the neighbors. He had plans for what he called a.

K

Small adu a space for his mother upon receipt of the plans. I saw that the size and scale of that.

K

Completely detached structure was considerably larger in footprint than described and much taller.

K

It was a two-bedroom house, the zoning board agreed since then the plans have been altered.

K

To make the same structured and attached dwelling when looking at adu definitions, some concepts, I've.

K

Found describe a second dwelling right on the same grounds or attached to your regular single-family.

K

House such as an apartment over the garage, a tiny house on a foundation in the backyard.

K

A basement apartment this current proposal, while now looking to be attached, is not exactly a tiny.

K

Dwelling or an apartment over the existing garage, but instead a full two-bedroom home.

K

It seems to be out of line with traditional adus. The unnecessary connector section adds.

K

To the excessiveness of this proposal, if you allow this structure, as is you are saying.

K

That building a full two-bedroom house on a too small parcel is just fine in our neighborhoods.

K

Knowing that mr o'leary's mother is quite elderly, it seems the future use of this two-bedroom house.

K

Is to become a rental property, and that concerns me, might it end up as a short-term rental in.

K

Our quiet neighborhood that would be highly disruptive and completely out of character.

K

Will the next owners of 225 weibert street likely see it as an income producing rental unit.

K

There's no way that this new two-bedroom house would be considered affordable, which is what I.

K

Thought the city desired. I read in a butter steven bergeron's strong opposition letter.

K

Submitted to the planning board that he included the negative impact of light pollution.

K

What this proposed density- and I agree about that impact also access to hawthorne street- will.

K

Cause additional stress on parking on our little street filled with bump outs. I do lament the loss.

K

Of green space happening all over the green spaces are part of our neighborhood's charm, the resulting.

K

Property will end up with barely any yard to speak of at all. How is that desirable for them.

K

I do want to stress that I am not opposed to any additional add-on structure, just this one, which is.

K

Much too large in scope. In fact, when my next-door neighbors tore down a small house and built a.

K

Standard size, home with, within all the permissible setbacks. I had no problem with that at all.

K

They are an awesome family and we've become good friends and there's plenty of grassy area around.

K

Their house, I realize that, even if this 225 ybird street proposal falls within existing requirements,.

K

The whole adu experiment within the city may need to be reworked, or at least more clearly defined.

K

With this two-bedroom house being larger in scope than what a small one-bedroom.

K

Attached adu might consist of. I strongly urge you to deny this applicant's request.

K

As stated in the abutters notice, your denial will reflect that. You are indeed.

K

Careful stewards of our environment and of our neighborhoods. Thank you. Thank you very much.

B

Did anybody else like to speak too far against this application.

G

Hello, I'm juliette grant. I live at 243 ybird, uh so I am on the corner of why bird and hawthorne.

G

And my view from my house is right on the side: there's actually a drawing of the side.

G

From hawthorne street that shows the house, the connector in the house and so right now I just.

G

See a house, the land does sort of slope down um feel like eventually I'll be looking at a wall.

G

Of a house just sort of extending back into the backyard, I don't. I know the connector is designed.

G

To connect the two units for zoning or planning purposes, but my question is that adds to the 750.

G

Square feet: maximum: it's that legitimate or not. I'm not really sure how that works out.

G

um The other thing I wanted to know is going back to the water issue.

G

Is that something that needs to be taken care of having that plan and investigation done.

G

Before you approve the planning allowing them to construct this um because I'd love to know.

G

How that's going to affect liver street and the neighbors down the way before that's been approved.

G

um And then a little bit more about what leslie was saying. Is I'm not really sure what the.

G

Finished square footage of the original house is, I think, it's upward of three thousand. It's a large.

G

House mark lives there by himself. He is proposing to build the secondary structure of 750 square.

G

Feet plus whatever the connector is, I just feel like this is a very big property. All of a sudden.

G

um And it's not really sure how that goes in the future, for for potential.

G

Buyers in the future and what people might be considering for their own livelihood. What.

G

They might need, it just seems a lot of space to be in one small yard and.

G

Also that it's a house attached to a house versus an apartment or dwelling.

G

Above a garage or something like that, it just feels a little bit excessive to me.

G

That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else wish to speak too far against.

L

Hi, my name is mike mcneely. I live at 205 weiberg directly next to 225. It was mentioned several.

L

Times in the presentation, uh so I I share um a lot of the concerns. The same concerns that.

L

Others have mentioned- um I spoke with mark in person about this today, these things as you.

L

Probably know are very unfortunate: it kind of hits neighbors against neighbors and sort of tears at.

L

The fabric of little communities- um I don't know how much I'm not that familiar with the process.

L

So I don't know how much discretion you have in this but, as others have said it does seem.

L

To fit, you know, meet all the requirements in terms of coverage and things like that.

L

But at the same time you know if you look at it, you know in parts of town like this.

L

There's very little open space, and so it's really valuable to be able to be at your.

L

Sink doing dishes and look across the yard and up a ways beyond that and I'm downhill uh from.

L

This so for me, all of a sudden we're going to be looking at. You know a pretty big structure.

L

um And- and I really appreciate how thoughtful they are being about all the neighbors.

L

um And again it's a difficult situation, but at the end of the day I do think it will hurt.

L

Property values for those direct debuters. We we've had water issues in our basement. We maybe a year.

L

Ago had to actually file an insurance claim to do some mold abatement and rip out a floor.

L

Because half our basement is finished, I understand they they're taking steps to address that and I.

L

Hope that would actually happen because that's a concern of mine being slightly downhill from there.

L

um And sounds like they have to add to the parking a bit so then you're increasing the.

L

Amount of uh non-permeable ground so that of course, contributes to potential drainage issues.

L

um And you know- and I I worry a little bit about precedent as um jules was just saying that you.

L

Know where does this lead to in other situations like this? Maybe it's not this particular one, but.

L

For other people in similar situations, I don't think anybody moved to the houses that we live.

L

In thinking you know, yeah it'd be great if there was a large structure in the middle.

L

Of that yard you know: we've bought the house because we like the openness, the the open field.

L

um So it certainly is a dramatic change to the character of our little part of the neighborhood.

L

um And again, and the other concern that others have mentioned is what happens with the next donor.

L

And the next donor, and for my family personally I mean we're right there, so the cars you know if it.

L

Eventually, they're short-term rentals or even some, you know, kids right out of college.

L

Living there or the cars coming and going um it's it's going to change things a lot so.

L

um I completely appreciate what he's trying to do. um I told him I did want to state my concerns so.

L

That's it. Thank you very much. Anybody else here to speak too far against this application.

B

Is there anybody on zoom.

B

Second and last request: anybody speak 2-4 against the application.

B

I'm going to close the public hearing.

B

I've got some concerns about drainage, as councilor moreau brought up. um I feel it's a big question.

D

I'm getting confused between the adu law, we're trying to change right now and the actual existing.

D

One yeah, so I'm hoping somebody can straighten me out as to whether or not we were because I know.

D

In the new one, we're requiring meeting all the drainage requirements right- and I can't remember.

D

If that's in the existing or, if that's just in the new one that I've been working on so there's.

F

No standard that addresses a drainage, especially for single-family dwellings. We have occasionally.

F

Requested that, as a stipulation that the drainage be reviewed by public works, I would recommend and.

F

This is upon my understanding from public works. What they want to see is- and I actually wrote.

F

It down because I thought it might come up that a professional engineer, certify the stormwater.

F

Management plan prior to the building permit: this is public works. This is what they want to see when.

F

They uh when they review it, and that would be a stipulation we do not require drainage for.

F

Either single-family structures we don't typically require for a new single-family structure. We don't.

F

Usually require that so uh usually the planning board will add a stipulation if there's concern.

F

Raised by the butters or or other property owners, so that would be my recommendation that if it is a.

F

Concern that a professional engineer certified the storm water management plan prior to the building.

F

Permit uh just one second I'll. I agree with what the planning director just said. I think 10 8.

B

14 63 does require us to find compatibility and design, and I think design could include drainage.

B

So I I agree that a professional engineer should, but I also think that the butters deserve the.

B

Right to see what those solutions are, so that's my thought, but you had a oh same idea: beverly.

A

um Current new parking requirements currently.

A

Or a attached adu one person, one designated spot is required. Yes, I thought.

H

Yes, I'm sorry, sorry, uh it's a dovetail off of greg's point.

J

um The way that the parking was designed here with the tandem spot and then the additional.

J

Adu spot, it almost seems as though the tandem spot is uh restrained and totally constricted.

J

By the ade spot and I would beg to question the circulation of cars and how that would play out.

B

Well, it's required to be owned by the same person so that it's it's an owner management issue.

A

So the definition of a parking spot is a space where a car fits not yeah. I would yeah it needs it.

J

Technically, I'm just thinking it's a circulation nightmare and that's another point. Yes,.

J

Some of the butters and neighboring property owners spoke to size and massing in regard to.

J

The sloping a lot um 34 hawthorne has a plus or minus 430 square foot. Garage. 232 library has a.

J

504 square foot garage and shed and those are all in flat lots and um you know I think, that they're.

J

Either just garages or, I think believe one of them is an adu. So this sloping lot and soapy nature of.

J

This, as well as the additional square footage seems very intense. I think it seems as though.

J

There are better ways to fit this within the neighborhood, contextual reference or architectural.

J

Reference- and um I think those are primarily my my thoughts on how to make it blend better.

B

Anything else: uh yes, yes, struggling with the adu at 750 square feet,.

H

And the square footage determining the parking if it's a two bedroom unit.

H

That that almost changes, the aspect of you know a 750 square foot, one unit, one bedroom versus.

H

Two bedroom, it's a it almost seems like it should need another space or something.

F

H

Lines there so I know there's a standard and I believe it is one designated space and I it's a.

F

Little different than I think our parking regulations, but I think if you go um site.

F

Plan provides adequate and appropriate open space landscaping, off-street parking for both the adu.

F

And the primary dwelling, I don't see actually that one designated space now that I'm looking.

F

Check, that's the challenge of the parking if.

H

Does each of those bedrooms have a driver and a car? Well, we have um section that reminds us.

B

Decided there's also another one and eight feet 1470, which allows us to require additional or.

B

Reconfigured off-stream parking spaces to be consistent with required findings, so.

B

There is the under the existing ordinance and I'm suffering from the same thing. Councilman moro is.

B

Because we've been working on the new one, so I have to come back and refresh my recollection.

B

Of these standards, we can consider that I'm I'm less troubled by that other than it adds to the.

B

Impervious ground right and if we add another space, that'll, add more impervious ground and.

B

Whatever the solution is- and I looked at this site myself- I can read the topo: it's a pretty.

B

Significant grade, but I'd like to know where that water is supposed to go, and I think, as I said,.

B

Earlier, I think the butters deserve to see that so I'm uncomfortable with a conditional approval. I.

B

Rather see it, we can come back, but that's just my thought.

H

Choices, yes, um yeah. I'd like to second what uh peter harris said about the to me. It's incongruous.

A

To have a parking standard on square footage and to apply the same number of bedrooms, because.

A

Bedrooms kind of dictate how many or could often dictate how many cars they'll be.

A

um So I think that's a an issue that should be addressed in the future and my other concern.

A

Is architectural compatibility? We have a description in our pocket saying we'll.

A

Be compatible, but I really like to I'm a visual person I'd like to see renderings.

A

So those are two other items I mean an additional item. I, if we're going.

A

To continue this, that I'd like to see more than the elevations well yeah, it's black and.

A

White elevations, I think they can do colorized renderings of what the building will look like.

F

If I could add a little clarification on the parking 10.112.311.

F

For a dwelling unit, 500 750 square feet, we require one space per unit.

F

And I I and I think the chairman's correct that they can take unless.

F

You know if you think there is a need for an addition unit, but certainly it meets the requirements of our off-street parking requirements for a residential unit.

D

um Ire because I've been around for a long time, I remember when we were first did the first adu.

D

Now we're working on the second radition, but the first one. We had long discussions around.

D

This kind of thing happening where there would be a giant connector room between two and we've.

D

Gone back and forth because one of the whole ideas was is that these should always look like.

D

Single-Family homes, and so I get there trying to make this look like an addition. By only having.

D

The one entrance, but when you have just that small little sort of connector room and then.

D

Two separate things it does make it look more like two homes versus one home, so I think that's where.

D

I'm getting hung up and it being consistent um and I don't really have a solution for this. But.

D

There you know, because we talked about what we didn't want, someone to put in like a 10 foot or.

D

20-Foot breezeway between you know two buildings making it look like two separate buildings. We.

D

Didn't want things to look like duplexes when it's really a single family neighborhood, because that's.

D

Where the adus are supposed to be additional dwelling units that are within and look like.

D

A single family neighborhood, so I think as much as they've made this very tastefully and and it's.

D

All well put together. I think it would have almost been better if it had been almost an.

D

Addition to the house versus a whole separate building with just the connector room and.

D

I probably can't I mean it meets all the requirements, so I have a hard time saying it can't.

D

Go through it, but that's where my hang up with this one is: I think the drainage is a really big.

D

Issue, whether or not we require that to be done before we approve this or we prove it conditional.

D

I just would want to make sure we're very clear on how we're approving it. That would be my tucson.

H

um Council murrell just just made a statement that that um that reinforces what I'm about to.

H

Say is that if I'm, unless I'm missing something it meets all of the requirements except drainage,.

H

Well and then, what we've heard from drainage is that the requirement of a licensed engineer.

H

Certifying trainers prior to a building permit is what is typically done on an application. First.

H

Through public works, that's one way to do it. I.

H

Sympathize with concerns about open space, however, this is not.

H

um This is, this: is someone's property? This isn't someone's own view. It is not.

H

uh City park: it's not public park. It's I keep hearing this person's lot being referred to as.

H

um You know our open space or my view, and um we talked a lot about facts tonight. um The facts.

H

Of the matter are this meets the requirements that of our ordinance, I'm so sorry. This meets.

H

The requirements of the ordinance I I can't see a reason to not move forward with considering it.

B

Well, thank you. I agree with just about everything you said and I I'm not moved by the fact that it's.

B

Proposed from the short term to be for his mother, that's information, but it's we have.

B

To think long term, long-term use of property, it is private property, but there is discretion.

B

Under the ordinance there's enough discretion that I think this board could say it does or.

B

It doesn't meet the standard, you know, there's nothing, there's not a metric, we can't say it's.

B

A half acre lot when you require a one acre lot area. It's nothing that clear.

B

I'm not troubled by the size of it as much as I think some people are, but the drainage.

B

I'm an engineer the drainage concerns me. I want to know where that water is.

B

Proposed to go- and I think it needs to be discussed in a public meeting- that's my.

B

But I I don't want to dominate this any more than I have to as the chair.

A

So if I can read between the lines, you would like a drainage study presented before we approve it.

A

Versus putting a drainage study as a simple approval, stipulation yes, because that would.

A

Provide a little more checks and balances, we actually get to see the study versus just.

A

Saying that it gets, I would say that this could be continued to the future.

B

Meeting with that information and the other information to address any other concerns.

B

To come back, the new butters would have the right to see it. That's comfortable with it.

B

I wanted to clarify something that counselor had said in the first iteration of the ado policy.

J

What was the determination of the length of the connector space? Was there a maximum.

D

I don't remember, I just remember that how we drafted it was trying to minimize that from.

D

Happening because that was a concern when we were talking about our intent of what we were.

D

Looking for, we were looking for the neighborhoods to stay looking like single-family neighborhoods.

D

And so I yeah it was a long time ago and now my brain is really on the revisions and not.

D

The current so yeah, no, I I can empathize with your position. Certainly I'm just looking at a.

J

16 foot connector, which is longer than the actual height of the building, and so that.

J

Right, it gives a pretty comparing contrast, type of scenario uh and and that's where I.

J

Start scratching my head a little bit tell you that I have just recently added to the.

D

Draft that we're working on a very clear and concise purpose and intent at the front of the.

D

Ordinance so that, hopefully, that that kind of idea comes across hoping that helps that.

D

Up but we'll see that won't guide us tonight. No, it doesn't. I know I'm just trying to tell.

D

You I'm working on it. You actually should be careful that that does not guide us exactly.

B

We have to be governed by what we have existing as it has been adopted by council.

B

Any more discussion with somebody like to propose a motion.

D

We need to go through all the findings of factor now. Well now, if we continue it.

A

I'll make a motion, I moved to continue this application to the next meeting conditioned on the.

A

Submittal of a drainage report, that's prepared by a licensed engineer in the state of new hampshire.

A

And to prepare architectural drawings that demonstrate in color are better renderings.

A

Than black and white that uh the adu is compatible with the existing structure.

B

Is there a second a second second, would you like to explain your motion? Well,.

A

um I think you did a best chair of the drainage is serious out there. I also visit this site and.

A

I think it's important enough that we know ahead of time, and I think we owe it to the.

A

Butters that they're confident too, that this site will not cause more problems with their properties.

A

And with regard to the architectural compatibility, I again I'm very visual and I'd like to see.

A

Color renderings of the atu compared to the existing dwelling.

G

If the vote was to pass, we would need to include a date and time certain for the continuance.

H

So the next meeting, okay to the next one, all right I'll, mend that to the next meeting. Okay.

B

But thank you for clarifying that. Yes, um are you looking for my comments, like did you both.

B

Have your hands up, I nope nope. Okay, any other discussion. I would ask for a roll call. We also.

B

I just saw clarification, there's two items in this motion with a second there's one for.

B

The professional engineering drainage study and the others for color renderings agreed anybody.

B

Understand that, yes, um I'd just like to state that I normally would not want to support putting this.

D

Off for a drainage study, except for the fact that this is a very unique property in the way.

D

It has, I mean to me: it looked like a good eight to ten foot drop off of a street down sort of.

D

Into a hole of this backyard, I could be wrong. I was ballparking it by eyes, but it seemed like a.

D

Really really big drop, and because of that, I think the uniqueness of it might require that that be.

D

Looked at because you do want to get concerned about putting more impervious surface into that.

D

Kind of an area so for that I would support that um that motion. That's all any other discussion.

B

Is that a request for a roll call vote? um I believe we have to do that without.

B

At the request, so would you care to? Can you do that? Yes, I can do that.

F

um Planning board member hewitt, yes, plain board: member almeida! Yes,.

F

City manager, conrad, yes,.

F

uh Chairman chillman, yes, councilor moreau, yes, foreign board, member harris. Yes, yes,.

F

Pine board member simonis: yes,.

B

I think the motion carried unanimously, so we will see you next month.

B

Next month,.

B

The next two items we have on the agenda um are items: roman ford d and e, which.

B

Are both the request of bromley forces? Llc is owner for property, 1465, woodbury avenue.

B

One is for a wetlands judicial use perimeter to section 10 7 10 10 17 in the zoning ordinance. The.

B

Demolition of an existing structural parking until the infrastructure to be replaced with lawn and.

B

Erosion control measures result in a 4 760 square feet of disturbance in the wetland buffer area.

B

Properties on assessor map, 216 lot, 3 and within the gateway quarter. One district.

B

And also the request of the same owners for the same property for an admitted site plan.

B

Review we have a motion to consider these items together and to vote on them separately.

D

Second, all those in favor aye aye opposed. Let us proceed with the wetlands. Conditioner use. Permit.

B

Portion, but you can discard describe both great uh good evening. Mr chairman members,.

J

Of the board, my name is nick dewhurst, with bowler engineering representing the applicant.

J

Bromley portsmouth llc for the demolition of the existing former schoolhouse restaurant.

J

Building and associated parking area, uh the building is at 1465, woodbury avenue.

J

The site we're looking at is right here at borders. uh Commerce way the home sense is.

J

Right here the wendy's is kind of planned south. uh The the application is relatively straightforward.

J

um The former schoolhouse restaurant building, it's been run down and dilapidated for.

J

Quite some time- and it's actually become quite a safe safety hazard for the owner.

J

um They've experienced some trespassing and and some other activities like that, they've.

J

Actually, blocked off the building and parking area with some construction, fencing to kind of.

J

Mitigate that issue to the best they can um so really uh what what the, what the project.

J

Proposes is to demolish the building and the associated surrounding parking area.

J

Again, it's kind of the area that I'm highlighting here and really that whole area will just be.

J

Replaced uh with the lawn um we, we went before the conservation commission uh last august and.

J

Received a recommended approval uh for the wetland conditional use permit with uh two conditions.

J

The first of which, being the grass lawn area, comply with nofa standards for organic land care.

J

The second of which is to ensure that no snow will be stored within that project area we've actually.

J

Addressed those comments and and revised our plans accordingly and resubmitted those to the board.

J

Other than that I'd be happy to answer any questions that the board may have.

B

I guess I I didn't mean to limit you to just the conditional use permit, so you know, I think you.

B

Described everything sure, did you find anything in the record? I have one question about preservation.

B

Of that building yeah, so, um unfortunately, the owner uh isn't able to be here tonight to speak.

J

In a little more detail to that, but uh as far as I know, the building is it's kind of so far gone. That.

J

um The structural integrity from both a code, compliance standpoint and a structural.

J

Integrity standpoint is compromised and it's kind of beyond that point of restoration.

B

There's just a question of point of information: that's all got it. You know there. Yes, just for.

A

Clearly because it doesn't really say it's all: a common owner owns the whole process, so basically.

A

You're, just getting rid of an eyesore and putting in grass exactly and you haven't been able to.

A

Fight a tenant over the last 20 years, that's been vacant. Yeah again, I can't speak to the owner. I.

J

Don't know the yeah yeah too much history behind it, but okay, so it's all the same person. You guys.

A

Are just gonna get rid of the commercial space and put a lawn in there exactly yep.

A

Pretty simple: yes, I've uh been around long enough to remember one. It was a restaurant.

A

It was a schoolhouse restaurant yeah and it closed about 20 years ago.

A

And frankly, I thought the reason it still stood for 20 years is because of its historic value and.

A

You're probably aware it was a schoolhouse in 1830 when that whole area was just farm fields and.

A

I thought the owner wasn't permitted to tear down. I guess I was wrong and I did this go before the.

A

City's demolition committee, or anything like that, um so actually I believe the the reason.

J

um That this process, the amended site plan approval, as well as the wetland.

J

Conditional use, permit kind of came to be. Is the owner went to pull a demolition permit.

J

um And was informed that he needed to go through with the site plan amendment process.

J

I don't believe, as far as I know, there's any I don't think the building is listed on any.

J

um Is listed as it or identified as a historical building, I I think it the reason for the wetland.

J

Conditional use permanent site plan amendment was because the proximity and the work within.

J

The 100 foot wetland buffer uh would, if we just need to go through the demolition this. This will.

F

Have to upon an application for demolition, permit we'll be going through the demolition committee, so.

F

That's what we have in the memo that we anticipate that this would go before the demolition committee.

F

And we don't, I do not think that it's listed on any um either the national register estate listing.

F

Or a local designation, that's I'm not aware of that chairman. Can I just address that quickly? Yes,.

D

um In in actuality when it gets posted for demolition, there's a period of time of which.

D

Someone can then object to the demolition, and if someone objects to it, then it goes.

D

To demolition review committee, it does not do it directly, it's only if somebody objects.

D

To the demolition of a property outside the htc, just that so everyone's clear on that it doesn't.

D

Necessarily mean it's going to go there unless you'd like to go object, then it would foreign.

B

I looked at a couple of the earlier plans and there's no conditions on them.

B

Any other questions the applicant.

B

Either part site plan or seems very straightforward.

B

No other questions open the public hearing.

B

The public hearing of both these applications, anybody wish to speak too far against this.

B

Application: nobody in the room, anybody on zoom, I'm gonna close the public hearing.

B

J

There's a pretty good expose on it in the athenaeum catalog.

H

That's about it me anything revelatory in there, not quite into this board. It's a neat structure.

A

But it's if he follows the guidelines to for demo can can we make conditions that they document you.

A

Know, that's actually part of demolition review committee. Does that can request it? I don't think.

B

We have any authority other than our site plan and wetlands conditional use permit.

B

Exactly okay, I think the point of the delay that if, if it is since the demolition committee would.

F

Be to either get documentary evidence or, if somebody's interested in preserving it.

F

They would step forward, but I think that's the point of the part of that review. Yep.

B

And there's an 1830 brick structure that has structural problems. It might be difficult to move.

D

And it looks like it's falling down.

D

I find the land is reasonably suited for the use and activity since they're getting rid of.

D

Structure and giving us grass so are you proposing to go through the phone I'm trying trying to move.

D

Us along uh does everybody, have the draft findings effect for the wellness conditions? I'm learning.

B

As we go along and I'm thinking, if we're not going to change anything, are we good with these.

D

I I am absolutely good with all of the findings. In fact, I don't know about anyone else. Everybody read.

B

Them everybody no objections, no additions and, with somebody other than councilor more like to make.

B

A motion for so much in the proposal that we've been given in writing in front of you. Everybody.

A

I'd like to move that we find the conditional use permit application meets the criteria set.

A

Fourth in 10.1017.5 and to adjust the supplemental finding a fact, as presented.

H

Second, second,.

B

Any discussions opposed.

B

I should use permit as granted site plan same. We have a set of findings there, including.

B

That monster I mentioned earlier, oh well, we still need the second vote to approve. We just found the.

D

Findings of back for the record yeah, now we gotta well, we can do no. I think we can do both findings.

B

And then we can do both votes, I mean, what are your preference? I don't care. The vote is inclusive of.

G

The language in the memo right so there's separate findings for both the wetland cup and 4a. He just.

B

Moved the first bullet, I think I think he just did the first bullet right. Okay, so air ribbit! Yes,.

B

So if you wish to, if you want to go in order types, you can grant or deny at this point and then we.

B

Go to the next one. I don't either way I'll make a motion that we vote to find the application meets.

G

The criteria set forth in 10.10 17.50 and to grant the wetland conditional use permit as presented.

B

A second any discussion.

B

You said more than you had to, but that's fine, it works.

B

Don't say much here, so all those in favor all right closed. Okay, now the findings.

B

Are adopted and the wetlands condition the shoes permit is approved, site plan.

D

I personally my opinion, is it meets all of the conditions as presented in the.

D

Findings of facts that go on for several pages. Excuse me. I agree, quick question.

H

um Thank you for your patience.

H

I get it. Thank you for giving us some simple ones to try to figure this all out. It's really nice.

H

I'm not sure is this: just a new hampshire is that a new hampshire brand new straight.

I

Across the state brand new, not here we're massachusetts august 23rd is our first.

B

We may have a small technical issue with documents going back and forth, so I'm just going to read.

B

Five additional criteria that I believe this application satisfies.

B

The numbers 15 through 19 in the site by interview regulations, 2.9.

B

Sure, with me, provision of usable and functional open spaces of adequate proportions, including.

B

Needed recreational facilities that can reasonably be provided on the site.

B

Probably not applicable next adequate layout and coordination of on-site access ways and sidewalks.

B

In relation to off-site existing and planned streets access ways, bicycle paths and sidewalks.

B

Next demonstration to land indicated on plans submitted with the application shall be of such.

B

Character that can be used for building purposes without danger to health next, adequate quantities.

B

Type and arrangement of landscaping and open space for provision of visual noise and air pollution.

B

Buffers and the last catch all compliance with applicable city approved design standards.

B

In my opinion, we're good with all those uh just technically. I think.

B

Please correct me: if I'm wrong, I believe this is an amended site plan which, if there was a problem.

B

Somewhere else on the site, this could bring those in, but we're not aware of any problems.

B

On the site right, we aren't, and I think that some of the the findings that or the drafts supporting.

F

Information could apply to those there's. No new development proposed only demolition and.

F

Restoration to open space and lawn, so I would suggest that the supporting information provided.

F

For the other criteria, this is a very unusual case could apply to the criteria that you've just read.

F

As applicable facts to support your finding for clarification, you did that, because this.

A

Is the corner of a very large parcel and part of a very large site plan? Not just this drawing.

A

Correct correct, okay, thank you, and our zoning code allows for that. I could have either sent it to the.

F

Technical advisory uh committee- or I could send it, bring it here, and so we brought it here, yeah.

A

Let's see I like the moves that we find a site plan application meets the criteria.

A

Set forth in section 2.9, 2.9 of the site, plan, review regulations and then and.

A

Adopt the supplemental information as findings of fact, as presented. Second, as.

B

I believe we have to do as amended, because we had added a few as uh because we added the conditions.

A

As amended and wrote into the record thing: okay, as amended yep, second, that any discussion on that.

B

All those in favor, aye, aye, opposed findings are adopted next.

B

We have to act on the. uh I make a motion to approve the site plan application as presented.

B

Second, discussion follows in favor aye opposed you.

B

Are approved appreciate it. Thank you have a good night. Thank you.

H

Yeah yeah, we have one more presentation. Yes, so ben should be on and um introduce the item.

B

We now have a presentation on the parking supply and demand analysis study where the.

B

City will be seeking proposals from qualified consulting firms to study the supply and demand.

B

For parking in downtown portsmouth, the study will address, assess and identify.

B

Current and alternative approaches to ensure adequate parking supply inform future public.

B

Investments and guide policy choices and zoning updates, including strategies that.

B

Optimize utilization of parking facilities in the parking structure cultivate mode shift and.

B

Mitigate induced parking demand where possible and make effective uses available in future technology.

B

Our director of parking, benjamin fletcher, will now join us by zoom to discuss this.

B

The technology works good evening. Can everybody hear me.

B

You're flashing back and forth talk to show, I think, steph's pulling up the presentation.

M

We have a good connection again. Yes, all right! Well, uh you know. Thank you, everybody for the.

M

Opportunity to speak tonight uh real quickly uh next time, please uh just this one's easy! It's a.

M

Common industry best practice for municipalities to update mid and long-term strategies uh with.

M

Regard to parking and transportation through engagement with the professional, consulting.

M

Firm, the city last did such a study in august of 2011, resulting in the 2012 parking principles.

M

Document that the current city currently adheres to for parking so next tile, please.

M

uh As in 2012, they proposed 2022 of a study will focus on assessment and identification of current.

M

And alternative approaches to ensuring adequate parking supply for incoming demand informed future.

M

Investment investments and guide policy choices and zoning choices that optimize utilization of.

M

Public parking facilities and pricing for those facilities cultivate mode shifts, mitigate parking.

M

Demand and make effective use of available and future technologies next time. Please.

M

uh How this would inform regulatory uh updates going forward? We would include a benchmark.

M

Study to review regulations of comparable communities to identify best practices that.

M

Have been successful in in those arenas uh explore anticipated parking demand that would result from.

M

Approved, but not yet built development projects in portsmouth explore parking utilization data.

M

To target pricing strategies that impact utilization patterns in an effective way.

M

And identify strategies the city should be considering to mitigate demand and cultivate.

M

Mode shifts where available next tile, please so this is uh the study map area that is proposed at.

M

The time uh and you know I don't see a reason to riddle- move off of the map that was uh in.

M

2012, which is what this is obviously that's open for discussion so uh final tile, please.

M

Certainly uh the the first thing I would say that uh with a study, this type is that you.

M

Know any planning related uh decision making should be withheld until we hear back from.

M

The vendor that has chosen to do this study so that we can make you know intelligent decisions.

M

Going forward, based upon all current data, we're currently working with uh 10 year old.

M

Data, although the 2012 principles are a very good outline, I'm excited to see what uh this new study.

M

Might bring going forward so I'm happy to take any questions. Questions for mr fletcher, yes, jim.

A

Mr fletcher, when was the last parking study done? Do you know 2012., okay, sorry, and was there one.

A

Relatively close to that, like within 10 years of I just trying to see it because it seems like we.

A

Do a lot of parking studies, I'm just trying to get them figured out for knowledge, so I I can't.

M

Speak to before 2012. I got here in 2017 2012 was what we've been working off of uh since I arrived.

M

um uh It's commonplace to do these every five to ten years. I think 10 years is a good idea. If.

M

You have a good plan which we we currently have, so I think we're right on target here.

A

Okay, and will the boundaries be the same as the 2012 study? That's the idea. Okay,.

B

Yes, you're hiding behind me, I'm a big head, um mr fletcher, is there a way that we could.

D

Possibly I don't know if we need to expand the um amount of inquiry into the map, but maybe expand.

D

A slightly different inquiry to expanded neighborhoods that surround the downtown.

M

So I you know the last study and most of these studies are done based upon the cbt. uh You know my.

M

My jurisdiction is the entire city, uh but mostly our attention is paid towards. uh You know: revenue.

M

Generating areas where we can deploy pricing and other policies to uh to mitigate demand to.

M

Change behaviors to uh to what is more desired, in other words, longer stays in the garages and more.

M

People walking as opposed to driving around uh I, I don't see any reason why we couldn't.

M

uh Change the map or expand the map. uh Given you know, everybody's concurrence that it was valuable.

D

Yeah, I just think the impact that downtown parking has on the surrounding neighborhoods.

D

Would be a key element to us understanding? That's awesome, certainly, and I understood uh it.

M

Understood yeah, absolutely yeah. I concurred and asked if you go five blocks out, maybe six.

H

Blocks outside of the downtown area you'll find that there's a lot of.

H

um Workers from the downtown area that come and they park in these neighborhoods and.

H

Then they walk into town and take resident parking in the from those neighborhoods and.

H

Your you're essentially diverting that you know away from parking in town to the.

H

Neighborhood space that it's impacting you know the residents ability to get sparking.

M

So I'm happy to speak to that. We do have the downtown employee program, which currently has.

M

Just under 500 users, uh we see you know relatively uh about 6 000 in sales a month on three dollar.

M

Tickets that allow a person to park for a 10 hour shift, so we do have a program in place for the.

M

Downtown employees, I think we have seen in the islington creek area that there was not a large.

M

Mitigation from the npp situation that we put in place there that sent people to surrounding areas.

M

I think that we had housed a lot of those parkers already in the founder garage under that program.

M

So I I'm sure that that still exists respectfully. I I do think that a large contingency of those.

M

Folks are addressed through that program. Can you tell us a little more about that program so that.

M

Certainly so um a uh it's designed for the the barista types, the um the folks that work lemons.

M

And such uh it allows for a 10-hour stay in the founder garage for a cost of three dollars.

M

And which is about 30 70 off the going rate of a dollar an hour, it makes it three to a ten dollar a.

M

10 hour stay a three hour: a three dollar price and uh folks come down to the garage they they show a.

M

Recent pay stub uh that shows that they're in downtown employee of a downtown business.

M

They're eligible for 22 of these uh stickers per month and some folks buy five or six depending on.

M

Their shift mode, some some folks buy the whole allotment uh folks that are looking to buy more.

M

Or want a greater degree in grass and egress access through the facility uh are encouraged.

M

To purchase the monthly parking products at a hundred dollars for residence and 125 a month.

M

For employees which allows for 24 7 access seven days a week and a guaranteed space in the event.

M

Of a snow or other events, so it's a different product entirely, but it's the 320 product is is.

M

uh Is geared towards uh the downtown employee, and- and when was this uh put in place, we put this in.

M

Place uh I believe, in early 2019, so uh I've got a consistent, uh increasing figures on this product.

M

From uh from that point forward, uh we see it spike in the springtime when the summer hiring season.

M

Takes place uh we're currently going strong last month, I think we did 6 700 in sales. If you divide.

M

That by three dollars it gives you a number of uh passes that were day passes that were sold. So the.

M

Way it works is the patron comes in. They pull the ticket as a normal person. Would not monthly person.

M

Would and on the way out, they place a sticker that they purchased in advance over the top of their.

M

Their exit ticket they placed that ticket into the dispenser and, if they're, under the 10 hour time.

M

Limit then the gate bends and they uh and they're on their way if they stay long or if they stay.

M

Overnight some folks do and it uh it just resumes the regular hourly charge after the 10 hours, which.

M

Is expired, and how is there is there some type of advertisement or was how is this notified to the.

H

Public uh we uh well, we advertise it at the time. It's uh it's now. It's mostly word of mouth. uh We.

M

We get a lot of folks come in that are they've, been told by their constituents that that this.

M

Is available to them uh you know, certainly we could put out some press releases to try.

M

And reiterate that it's out there, but uh we have pretty strong usership right now, yeah that'd, be I.

H

Think that makes sense a double notification and I had never heard of it either myself.

M

It's an excellent program with great with great usership, actually we're very proud of it.

B

The study area map was up there. Pretty quickly. uh Did you exclude the municipal.

B

Lot and the parking done by prescott park. uh Okay, can you please put the map back up.

H

M

So this is the map uh just one tile back. This is the map from 2012.. I didn't see any.

M

Reason to alter it, but certainly it's open for discussion. uh You just need to go back. One tile.

H

Trying to make it happen, it's it's on its way. Ben.

M

A good problem please, as soon as I can see it all right here too, what was your first? What is your particular question?.

B

I couldn't tell, did you exclude the municipal lot of the don junkins.

M

um It looks yeah, it looks like that's not in there, because that's not a commercial lot.

M

And there's some areas in here: they're, not commercial as well again. This this map was.

M

Drawn in 2012, uh it seemed to me to be a perfectly viable map for at least for.

M

Discussion going forward, we can certainly alter it. Oh it's a great map for discussion. I just.

B

I walk around town a lot and that lot is used. Quite a bit just seems like sure data.

B

That should be sure, um obviously high hanover's part in the in the study area. So I can't tell.

A

For sure it's the foundry place garage, it will be in there. I actually know I think it might be.

M

Cut out in this in this map, but no no, it didn't existence. Certainly the founders are part of.

M

Their system actually oh correct yeah, so that foundry will be part of it. Absolutely so. Yeah.

B

What's the what's the timeline when you propose to put the rfd out.

M

So we believe we have a document that we like uh that uh you know pending approval through.

M

uh Beverly's office and legal, uh we we think we would put out within this month. uh I would think.

M

That we would have a number of suitable vendors uh willing to uh to accommodate our request.

M

By the end of the year uh from that point, I think it would be more of a fluid timeline.

M

Based on what the vendor uh believes that they need to make an accurate assessment of what.

M

They're seeing enforcement, certainly I have uh several years worth of of quality data. There is.

M

A coveted year and a half two years in there that basically skews the data a little bit.

M

So but we do have a good uh almost full year now out of that, I think it would be fluid from that.

M

Point I think it would be up to the federer to decide uh what what they would think that they.

M

Would need to see in real-time data to uh to to form an accurate assessment. We could rely upon.

B

Thank you anything else.

B

Thank you very much. Thank you man. Thank you ben. Thank you all, and I don't I'm not going.

B

To add anything to tonight, unless anybody else has something every uh yes, no just very brief comment.

J

On that, like so, that's obviously centered around parking, um I think something that should directly.

J

Follow or correlate would be uh transportation and transportation analysis. I I would think I don't.

J

Know in what capacity, but my thinking is the west end, has obviously developed significantly since.

J

2012. putting more cars, pedestrians, cyclists, as well as residents in that area. So although it.

J

May not be a direct, downtown parking or overlay district type of analysis. It could have some.

J

Sort of impact a residual impact, because there are more cars, people and and items on the road.

J

And so a transportation analysis thereafter or conceptual thought may be something that.

J

We can incorporate, I know, there's another rfp out following up on councilman rose's suggestion to.

B

Make stage three two-way: that includes an analysis of that that builds on a model that was done.

B

You three years ago, uh but which did include most of the downtown for an actual traffic model.

B

I'm I'm not sure if they're updating, if that would include all your all that you're saying but.

B

It would include at least part of it yeah, and I think the west end is certainly a area of emphasis.

B

Ben, did you want to say something to that? No, I'm! Just okay.

H

Just here, if you guys need me, you still have me.

M

As a panelist, I thought there might be a reason, so you know.

B

Anything else, yes, uh is this: like free, mic time, question mark? Yes, you have maybe three minutes.

J

For the plane director, uh I think that's next beverly is there any.

A

Updates on the west end yards parking demand, study.

F

I'm sorry I like to ask us to send me that I don't I.

F

I'll try and follow up with that. I think it was. It wasn't really a study I want. I went back and.

F

Reviewed that stipulation we just asked, and I because after you mentioned, that it was really.

F

Just that they share their data that there was the basis for their request and that's what we.

F

Asked that was already created, and so uh I just think they just were supposed to share.

F

It I don't think, we've seen it so I I will follow up sorry. I think my I made a conditional approval.

A

For the hundred space expansion- and I I think I was pretty clear that I was interested in.

A

The square foot of the unit, the number of bedrooms number of occupants and the number of cars.

F

It that the stipulation didn't didn't carry all that. I can send it to you if you'd like to take a.

F

Look at it, but so I think I think I corrected in the minutes. I had to do it the next meeting, but.

A

Those are the four items that I was interested in from west end yards. Was that a condition or.

B

Did they say they had that data? Remember I believe. Well, we had the meeting I think of february. Then.

A

On the minutes in march, I corrected what okay well, the minutes are what they are so we'll see what.

B

They show yeah yeah, I mean I could take a look at the minutes. I think it it they're. It's really.

F

I mean, for my part, I would probably stick to the stipulation what was read into the record at the.

F

Time but I can ask them for that and if they have that, I just don't mind asking for that as well. Jim.

A

Well again, it's I know parking is front and center and it's a great situation to have right.

A

There 250 units different size apartments and we all trying to guess about parking demand. But we.

A

Have a real actual building in portsmouth under current rental conditions, we'd have a very good.

A

Idea, whether one car per unit's appropriate two cars per unit, this is why I think it's.

A

Understood I I can certainly ask for that. Okay, and my only other question is that the presentation.

A

That uh ben foster did be put in the minutes tonight or in the package. We can have that posted.

B

Anything else I'll call a meeting adjourn. Thank you very much.