City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Planning Board, 17 Feb 2022

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2.17.2022 Planning Board

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Welcome everybody to the portsmouth city planning board, meeting february 17th 2022. We have before.

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We get into the agenda. The city attorney has actually asked for some time at the beginning,.

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And I'm not even gonna ask for a vote. Have him come up and give us some instruction.

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Members of the board good evening, uh robert sullivan city attorney um as the chairman.

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Said I'm I'm here be at my request to address the board briefly about the matter of north.

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Millpond holdings llc at one range avenue uh versus the city of portsmouth. uh It will have.

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An effect on proceedings this evening, so the idea was to discuss it at the beginning of the meeting.

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um The uh on on the ninth of february, but only served this week, was that lawsuit that I.

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Just described it is a a pretty serious matter. uh Quite a lengthy petition, as as land use appeals go.

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It is 20 pages in length.

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The lawsuit contains three counts.

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The city is the defendant, but actions of the uh planning board uh and two of lesser degree.

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Actions of the zoning board are the subject matter of the of the case. um uh The first count.

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Is an appeal of the planning board's decision on a motion for rehearing, which.

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Occurred at the boy's last meeting uh and the board determined to hold a rehearing.

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The uh the petition raises a number of legal questions which.

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Sort of begin with the idea that the planning board didn't have the.

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Legal authority to conduct a rehearing also raises a number of very specific issues about.

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Actions of particular members of the board and uh and generally is a request that the.

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Court order that there shouldn't be and couldn't be any rehearing account. Two is.

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In some ways, a repeat of count one, except that it asks the judge to make declaratory rulings.

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On most of those same points, and a declaratory ruling would just be a statement by the court.

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uh Not necessarily an order, but a statement by the court as to what the law.

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Is with regard to various questions, such as on a planning board hold over hearing.

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Complaint to be accurate is is fairly vitriolic.

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I would suggest that all the members of the king would read it. I I don't really wish to get any.

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Into any further detail about the content of the complaint at this time, because it is now.

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The subject matter of serious litigation and, to the extent the board wishes to discuss it.

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I would suggest that we hold a non-public session at an appropriate time. There are.

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A couple more points, however: they need to be made, and first off this lawsuit makes a really.

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Deciduous claim for attorney's fees to be paid by the city because of actions of the planning board.

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I point this out to you, because that is a rare situation. I have handled a tremendous number of.

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Landorus appeals over the years as much as anybody. I would think, and, uh and I've never seen anything.

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Quite like this, so when the uh the board members read the complaint, I would suggest that you.

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uh Direct some attention to that third count: the claim for attorney's fees.

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There are, as I say, some fairly vitriolic comments there and it's a very uh strongly worded provision.

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But it is actually the last item in the complaint that brings me here tonight at the beginning of.

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This meeting, and that is because the process of appealing a planning board decision a little.

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Different than appeal of a zoning board decision process of appealing a planning board decision in.

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The superior court calls for the appealing party to file a request for what they call certiorari to.

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The superior court- and this means that, before taking any action on an ex-party basis with.

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Without the city being, in this case, even alerted to what's happening, uh the judge conducts a.

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Very brief, preliminary pairing to determine whether or not to issue any preliminary orders.

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And the preliminary orders did issue and were issued in this case and the order reads as follows:.

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By order dated february 14th 2022, uh the supreme court has ordered.

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uh Judge migra wagonling, the supreme court judge, has ordered.

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Quote proceedings upon the decision appealed from our state end quote, meaning that.

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Very specifically, the re-hearing cannot go forward.

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Every hearing that was voted by this board because of the fact that the court has now ordered that it.

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Not happened um beyond that. The attorneys in the case, including attorney mccallum, who represents.

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Some abutters have agreed that give the order its full effect. Everything is stayed. No action.

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Be should be taken by anyone in connection with the reigns avenue, application, no rear.

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No rehearing should be held, and this situation will only end uh when in some way or another,.

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Court orders it and the variety of remedies that the court might order, go all the way from.

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Simply overturning the planning board, on the one hand, and not allowing anything further to happen.

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All the way over to upholding playing board, in which case, I would think the.

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Rehearing would go on or the court could make the decisions on the issues itself, eliminating.

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The need for re-hearing, but we won't know that, and we won't know it for a while. The the city has.

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30 days from the filing of this suit to file an answer, I'm advised that attorney mccallum will be.

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Intervening in this case on behalf of certain private clients, he has.

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Who have an interest in the case and uh when the answer is prepared and filed.

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Properties will be provided to you and at that time the best way to read it is to take the.

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Complaint, put it in front of you. Take the answer. Put it in front of you read complaint one answer.

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One complaint two answer: two et cetera and that's where we are at the moment, mr chair and, as I say,.

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The court has ordered that no action take place and, as I understand it, uh attorney sullivan.

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That would include even not even looking at the minutes with respect to that meeting. That's right.

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We're trying to give this uh corridor a a full and literal meaning that no action.

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Any other questions for attorney.

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That does bring us to the minutes.

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Folks had a chance to look over the minutes of the last meeting, not counting what we just heard about.

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Chair I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes minus the one case. Second,.

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um Can I just make one comment um on.

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Just before 6b um preliminary conceptual consultation, the paragraph just before is.

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uh It's uh abbreviated all the members, names and everything so that just needs to be adjusted so.

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Yes, I just have a question which is so.

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At some other point, if we're able to return to the rehearing, can we return to corrections of.

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The minutes, because I did have comments about the minutes on that subject. So will there be an.

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Opportunity, I believe so I also had some comments, but that those won't happen tonight.

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Notion that those minutes are suspended then, until I think that's what uh councilman moreau said.

C

Without five minutes, those minutes are in suspense, essentially right: they're called on hold good.

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Any other discussion, all those in favor of the minutes, say hi aye opposed unanimously.

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We have a fairly robust agenda tonight and I did have a request for items. Four: a and b.

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Which are simple requests to postpone to come up earlier tonight, which I think might require.

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I'll make a motion to suspend the rules, so we can bring this forward. Second.

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Any discussion, all those in favor aye, aye aye motion to consider items. Four, a and.

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Four b, together uh both for a is to request a proponent of request to k street development as.

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The owner for property, 406 route, 1 bypass for amended site plan, review approval to.

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Reconfigure expand the parking on tax map 172 lot, 2 tax, mach, 172 lot, 1 and tax map 165 lot, 2.

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To contain 73 new spaces, 52 covered to renovate the existing structure on tax map, 172 law, 2 and.

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To add a bio retention, storm facilities, storm water collection and treatment facilities on tax.

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Map 172 lot 1 map 165 lot 2.. The properties are shown on the assessor's map, 172 lot, 1 172 lot, 2.

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And 165 lot 2 and lie within the gateway corridor district motion to postpone uh I.

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Will make a motion that we take them together and postpone them together? I'll second.

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Any discussion, all those in favor aye aye passage unanimously.

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We have uh next item's determination of completeness.

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Site plan review, request of rishi construction company as owner green and company building and.

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Development corporations applicant for property located at 3400 lafayette, road.

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For conditional use permit for development site in accordance with section 10.5 b, 40 of the designing.

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Ordinance and site plan approval, mr chair. Yes, I I have to recuse myself on these next two items that.

G

Are accessing frontage on us-1, okay, mr simonas, can you sit on this one? Yes, I can.

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Who's here to mr chair, yes, just like to let the board know and for the record that I've known.

H

The applicant one of the two applicants for 25 plus years personal and extraneous.

H

Business relationships, but I have nothing to do with this project or no bearing on anything.

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Thank you for that, mr chair, uh since we're at determinations of completeness I'd make a.

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Motion that we determined that the everything is complete and that we can move forward.

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The site plan review. Yes, thank you for that. Second,.

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All those in favor aye, aye.

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Now we can proceed, but we have to do the other determination of completeness.

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We have the other one as well. You want to read that one. The request is monarch, village, llc.

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On behalf of indonesia, hospitality llc for property at 3548, lafayette, road.

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This is also for site plan approval. I make a motion that we have determinations of.

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Completeness is satisfied for that site plan review. Second, all those in favor.

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Motion carries unanimously so now we're on to public hearings.

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That I jumped the gun on ricci construction, 3400, lafayette, road.

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Goodie mr chair members of the board, I'm attorney john boson and I represent the.

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Applicant greening company we're seeking approval for a townhome style condominium located in the.

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Gateway neighborhood mixed use, quarter, g1 district I'd like to begin by introducing.

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You to our development team, we have rick green jenna, green and michael green with us tonight.

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And we also have greg michelettis from argus consulting, unfortunately joe cornady from.

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Jones and beach is our project engineer. He was not able to join us tonight, but confident greg will be.

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Able to pitch in just fine: this is a residential development. It's allowed by wright in this zone.

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And it will consist of 50 condominium units which are far less than what the ordinance allows.

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The overall site here is 44 acres. 28.8 of those acres sit in the nrp zone.

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15 acres in the gateway which, under the ordinance, allows for 16.

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Units per acre, so a total of 248 units would be allowed on the site. We're planning to construct.

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50 units and we'll be donating a little over 10.8 10.3 acres of land to the city as a.

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Conservation easement, so what we're proposing is far less than what is allowed under the ordinance.

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Our development team has been hard at work on this project for quite some time. In fact, we.

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Were before this board for a conceptual review hearing on november 24th 2020.

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Since that time, we've had numerous meetings with city staff and dpw we've had three.

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Meetings before the conservation commission been a zoning board meeting we've had three.

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Technical advisory committee meetings and a joint site walk with conservation in the planning board.

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We did receive tax approval on august 3rd 2021 and conservation committee approval on august 21st.

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Since then, our team has been working with dpw on the costs associated with.

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The off-site improvements to bring the sewer to the site we are in agreement with the.

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Recommendation, you probably have a letter from terry damaris of february 10th for a.

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Contribution of 155 thousand dollars for that off-site improvement, and we are in agreement.

F

With that, so with that brief background, I'd like to have greg nicolaitis come up to the podium.

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Walk us through the site, then I'd look and come back and go through some of the cop requirements.

G

Presentation good evening, uh greg mikolaitis from august consulting.

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I am filling in for joe carnardi, but um just for the record, I have attended.

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All those tac meetings and all the conservation commission meetings and I've also attended the.

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Joint site walk, so I've been involved with this project for uh well over a year. Now. um This.

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Is a pretty unique site? This is for I've been I started permitting in portland 1985. I don't think.

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I've seen a most united unique site as this one and I'm going to go through what makes it unique.

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That one it's it's set back from root, one you can see up to the where's, the pointer.

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There we go. uh The frontage is up here uh right off of lafayette, road, good sight, distance in both.

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Both locations um as john mentioned, um there's 28 acres, that's in a permanent conservation, easement.

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That was uh construct. It was a wetland mitigation site back in 1985 when portsmouth hospital was.

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Constructed the site is surrounded on both the south, and this doesn't want to work tonight. It's.

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Surrounded down here in both the south and the west, by city of portsmouth conservation, land.

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Coach road is to the south and.

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And, as john mentioned, only five acres of the 44 acre site uh is proposed to be developed.

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So with that, um what you're looking at is there's 12 different buildings, there's 50 units um that.

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That site layout has been vetted a number of times with discussions with staff in tech and try to.

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Get the right unit mix there'll, be three bedroom units. There's two car garage parking underneath.

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Basically, two bedrooms and home office just the way things are going nowadays.

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There's 37 000 square feet if any of you've been out on site in the lighter green area,.

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That's uh it's a disturb. It's area, that's been disturbed in the wetlands buffer, so.

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We're actually going to be restoring that 37 000 um acre square feet of buffer disturbance.

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The site's been designed to create you know a really nice private neighborhood, there's.

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Walking paths along the back of the units. There's um we've had a lot of discussion with conservation.

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Commission and once you're out there on site, um you can see the clear demarcation, so they've asked.

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Us to put a cedar fence along the um three rail cedar fence along the uh walking path.

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To kind of keep people out of the wetlands, but also to be able to enjoy that open area.

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There's also going to be a 4 800 square foot park located down in this area right in the center.

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Of the cul-de-sac, there's a patio out there sitting area benches, there's some pet waste.

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Stations there there's another pet way station along the um along the walking path. Drainage is.

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uh Fairly simple, for um you know this site that there's, if you look at your you know the plans.

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uh Half the site is draining up to this location down here the remaining site is draining down to.

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This location here all work, is outside of the wetlands buffer. There is going to be.

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1900 uh 2600 square feet of buffer temporary buffer impacts, um basically there'll be an.

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Outlet swale um from both the north and the south uh drainage systems that it's really just.

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To convey clean storm water, all the storm water is going to be treated outside of the buffers.

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And that'll be restored, those two areas will be restored with wetland mix and then there's a.

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There's a sore manhole with a contour around it's about 100 square feet of um temporary disturbance.

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Until they installed that manhole and then they were just graded and restored with wetland mix.

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So it's a very, very robust landscaping plan uh creating a real private community off of route 1.

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It's the site is fed by municipal water missile soar. As john mentioned, we've had.

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Numerous discussions with dpw there's 155 000 fee for help with infiltration and inflow. That's.

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In this watershed- um and I guess the last thing I'm just trying to keep it simple and we have a.

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Long agenda, the last thing is community space um supposed to provide 4.4 acres.

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There's going to be 10.9 acres, provided that's detailed on your plans. uh The.

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Conservation easements john mentioned is 10 acres 10.3. That park is 4, 800 square feet and.

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It's almost a half acre of walking paths, eight foot, uh wide stone dust, walking paths.

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So um minimum open space required in this zone is 20, there's going to be 85.3 percent, provided.

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Maximum building coverage you're allowed 50 um there's only going to be 5.6 so.

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I just like to open up to any questions, or do you want to talk about those okay.

F

Thank you greg um with respect to the conditional use permits for the development site.

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Just like to run through those criteria.

F

Section 10.5 b 4310 requires that development site be consistent with the city's master plan.

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And in that regard we are providing housing. uh I would say you know much needed housing.

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That's well suited for our changing demographics in our current and future workforce. We're building.

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50 units with multiple unit sizes that will provide some reasonable degree of affordability.

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The units are also town home style, which are very desirable units, and there will also be sufficient.

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Space to allow for home office, which is really important for today's home buyer.

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Next development site has been designed to allow a use. That's.

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Appropriate for its context and consistent with the city's planning goals and objectives for.

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The area again, this is a gateway project of the loud use of town, home style, condominiums.

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We're not overburdening the site we're building far less units than the ordinance provides for.

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And this development again is permitted and appropriate for the site.

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It also includes public realm improvements that exceed what the ordinance requires.

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Next, the project includes measures to mitigate or eliminate dissipated, impacts on traffic safety and.

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Circulation demand on municipal services, storm water, runoff, natural resources and adjacent.

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Neighborhood character and to this point you know, as greg mentioned, we are restoring wetlands.

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That are currently being impacted, we're doing a substantial planting in the buffer.

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We're donating over 10 acres of land to the city for conservation purposes. We also have a dog park.

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For the development, we're building an eight-foot multi-use path and sidewalks throughout the site,.

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We've also done a traffic study that concluded that there won't be any significant alteration to.

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The existing traffic pattern, so we do believe that this development will complement the surrounding.

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Properties as well we're surrounded by uh condominiums the ga, uh this convenient property on.

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Really both sides of us one of them, is currently in development and there's one in front of us.

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And then obviously there's the uh sewer connection that we've discussed.

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So all for all these reasons, we do believe that the project.

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Is consistent with the purpose of the intent set forth in section 10.5 b11.

F

uh I think at this point greg and I can answer any questions you may have regarding the site.

A

Any board members have any questions, I'm sorry there you are, I really had my hand up. um I.

C

Really actually have a pretty easy question. I don't know who's going to be the right person to answer it, though, is there anywhere near this public transportation, access to this site.

F

I don't think there is I'm just curious, I I wasn't sure I mean it.

C

All of these larger sort of developments that are getting farther away from.

C

You know where people might work or play. I was just looking if might look into uh you.

C

Know where's the closest one and making sure that people would know that and have access to.

C

It just because I think that would be really handy for the residents yeah. I don't disagree.

F

um I think that's something that hopefully, is probably going around there somewhere.

F

Or there will be.

E

Yeah, I I think somewhere in the reading, it said that there was a bus. You know, route.

E

That they could walk to. I remember reading that because I had the same question about.

E

In terms of having impact on you know, municipal services.

E

It seems to me that I drove around the site and all around the neighborhood and, as you described.

E

With a number of other condominium projects also already standing there.

E

The added traffic, especially trying to turn left to go into downtown into portsmouth.

E

I don't know if it you know, I'm not a traffic expert, but I don't know if it warrants an.

E

uh Actual light somewhere and like an extra light, I know it's down from.

E

Some pizza factory or something where there isn't a light and an intersection at the fire.

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Department there, but this is this- is building density like pretty close but further down, so.

E

That was one of my questions or perhaps an extension of like the coast, bus routes.

E

Because when you take a look at the.

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Urban corridors in our master plan, which I reviewed very carefully.

E

The vision is really for mixed use: mixed use, creating unique neighborhoods and village centers.

E

And so I guess that's what I would have wished to have seen here is that you know you take advantage.

E

Of the fact that there's conservation land there that you're saying are is part of the common space.

E

And that you're able to draw people there other than just residents residents to.

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Have parking to enjoy the conservation space and or to actually go to something that looks like.

E

Another village center I'm just going to use the example of the.

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Mini mall that we have, or a kind of village center right off of lafayette, lafayette road that has.

E

Mckinnon's in it, yes has apartment complexes in it has more apartment complexes coming into it.

E

That sort of thing, I think, is closer to the vision of having thriving village centers, leading up and.

E

Actually connecting to downtown so my two points are, I don't find the connectivity and I don't see.

E

Anything, you know even a unique version of a village center. I I guess to that point. I would.

F

Say that we're confined by the environment that that we have so we have this, we have this huge.

F

Site of 44 acres, but there are 28 of those acres that are already in nrp, which were so that that.

F

You know that this area back here is um is subject to the easement, because of when the hospital was.

F

Built that was the mitigation area, so we really couldn't do anything with the rest of that.

F

Was with the rest of that land, so the as built environment, kind of limited us to here and then.

F

There's the 10 acres that we're donating to the city now what's interesting, though, about.

F

This is that I think that 10 acres is down here. There's coach road- that's down there, which is a.

F

City, road and there's trails that exist from coach road, so some people already go down coach road.

F

I don't know if you've ever been down there, but people do park their car. There.

F

There are some trails and people do, go, take their dogs and walk walk back there. So I do think that.

F

There's an opportunity to for the public to connect into this trail system that exists and.

F

You know enhance the opportunity for the public, but yeah um so in with respect to the trafficking.

F

Great may have more to add, we did do a traffic study and uh greg mindy wanted to comment on that.

I

So a couple things um we just checked and hillcrest estates is the closest coast. Bus stop.

I

So certainly we can make a phone call to coast and see with the development going down that end.

I

See if you know they want to add you know I I know just from experience dealing with them. You know.

I

They want to try to limit their stops because they don't have unlimited. You know it screws up all.

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Their schedules, so they may want to switch once they see what development's happening down here.

I

That's uh that's number one as far as a traffic study, uh steve perna and we do need a d.o.t.

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Permit but um steve perny did a traffic study and am trips there's four in 13 out at am peak hour.

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So you can see that's what one every five minutes um and then pmp, there's 23 trips 14 in nine out.

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So again, that's you know 23 over the course of an hour so but again, that'll be vetted by d.o.t.

I

um The other thing regarding the master plan, if, in that, in this in this zone, the gateway zone.

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uh Section 10.5, b 42.30, you are allowed a general residential uh development. So this this.

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This meets that part of the uh of the gateway ordinance and you know, what's unique,.

I

About this site is, there's only 128 feet of frontage, um so it's really doesn't lend.

I

Itself to a retail or commercial site, um retailers are struggling enough when they.

I

Have you know street frontage never mind trying to set back and um trying to find somebody so.

I

um Anyway, I hope that answers your questions, or does it or do you have any other questions or.

E

Yes, there is a difference between the master plan and the zoning ordinance itself, though,.

E

I I understand point your point was to the zoning ordinance. My point is to the master plan.

I

And my last comment about it is about the adjacent neighborhood character, because there's two little.

E

Houses, individual residential houses that are front along the front of lafayette road that this.

E

Entire thing, I don't know if it shows I I can't tell from that that display, but that this entire.

E

Thing will be built behind like they will now have backyards where they're. Looking at this new.

E

Condominium, so when you talk about well, this is in character, with the other condominium.

E

Projects? Yes, but it's really not in character with the individual residences that are spotted.

E

Up and down all along, like the half, an acre from this, the entrance to this proposed development.

I

I I think you were either an alternator. You were probably on the board at the time when the whole.

I

Gateway districts, were you know off all of them. You know not only here and woodbury and all that.

I

And and yeah, I think there was pros and cons. I remember listening those discussions of what.

I

Do we want to see so you know you have a mile or whatever it is of gateway, zoning and yes, there is.

I

Residential houses that have been there before the gateway zone was adopted, uh it just and, and we.

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Clearly recognize those residential houses where you know, if you look, there's a six foot fence.

I

That starts at that corner in the landscaping and we bring it all the way down to the south.

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End so it starts at the uh the north end of that property line and goes all the way down to the.

I

South end behind the unit so and it is a pretty robust landscaping plan, so are you saying you are.

E

Fencing off like their backyards from view of the development, yeah there'll, be a six foot.

I

Vinyl fence, along that whole uh parallel to route one, and then you can see also um the plantings.

E

Okay, thank you. Thank you greg before before you just clarifying traffic.

A

I assume steve didn't even get to a traffic signal warrant analysis because of the numbers yeah he's.

I

What he said is actually- and I don't want to speak from he's here for another project, so.

I

Steve, if I say something wrong, come here and kick me, but um the um the.

I

Daily fluctuations are actually more than the traffic. You know he had recordings from 14.

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20, uh 17 and 20. You know those years as a there's, a recorder on the right line.

I

And uh his conclusion was the flexi. The daily fluctuations are more than what the uh what these.

I

Trips are going to generate. There was no impact and you're not you're, not applying for a signal. No.

A

I believe we are looking at a conditional use permit for.

A

A development of this type in this district.

A

Council tomorrow, I just have one more question. I remember in my looking at this that you guys.

C

Were pulling off of the sewer line, that's at the back of the property, but there is a sewer.

C

Line that runs down lafayette road and I just was wondering what the justification or reason is for.

C

The choice and what you did yes, no, that good memory. So yes, originally it was out back and.

I

um Because the conservation commission had concern of temporary impacts, it's like 28 21.

I

000 and the city wasn't sure about the capacity in lafayette. It took us about six months to get.

I

Through that, but now the connection is in front to lafayette. There'll be a pump station up at the.

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Northern uh corner of the property everything's gravity flowing to the air and it's going out to.

I

Lafayette and that's part of the study that dpw is doing now in the ini that there is capacity.

I

With ini improvements to tie into route 1 and also the pump station okay, great thanks.

A

Mr chairman, um just greg first name daniel, a couple of places on here. References not.

H

Using salt at all, that's a good idea, but what's going to be done instead and how.

H

Is that going to be enforced in perpetuity? I mean this will be around for a long time.

F

We'll be using sand and we're going to enforce it by putting it as a covenant in the condominium.

F

Documents, so the contributing documents will require that there'd be no salt on site. That was.

H

At the request of the conservation commission, oh yeah, will the city have to enforce that or.

F

No, it's private, it's private, okay, so yeah economy and force, but the economy of documents will not.

F

Allow for any salt a question on the condominium documents. Can someone further elaborate on the.

J

Plants planted within five feet of a roof drip edge system and what that may entail, or.

J

May not entail well that I think that was on the recommendation from the conservation commission.

F

Yeah, we don't that will make its way to the condominium documents. South carolina association.

F

Will be charged with compliance with that yeah. I think obviously much like greg just alluded to.

J

This is going to be around for a long time and whether you're the first owner or the third.

J

Or fifth owner of that condo unit, so that's just something we want to highlight. Obviously,.

J

Just brought the sensitivity to the land behind you yeah and that'll, be you know again, you know.

F

The association um we'll be able to enforce that because it will be a provision in the condominium.

F

Documents no different than you know: yeah any other stipulation in the condo of documents and.

J

In the uh om plan for the grounds, the common area grounds, there are annual inspections for.

J

Cascations and stone drains and etc. We just had a week where we had freezing temps. We had snow.

J

We had rain, and now today it's 50 and everything's melting and there's a lot of debris that could be.

J

Built up, it may be good to have more routine inspections of those types of things rather than.

J

Just annual we have pretty inclement weather and you have a very sensitive water body behind you.

J

So, to make sure that all the repairs that you're doing on that sensitive area maintain themselves.

J

It may be good to have more routine inspections, yeah, I'm okay, with putting that you know we.

F

Can make that a stipulation but yeah, and I don't know how you institute it. It doesn't.

J

Certainly have to be weekly, but maybe just more frequently in the annual yeah. That's fair point.

G

Mr clark, thank you chairman, um so I guess building upon that, uh you guys are, I guess, on the the salt.

D

Comment from mr mahana there's a uh proposed treatment plan. Tr1 is like the red and green.

D

On there is that is that the proposed treatment plan speak that great. I think they labeled the.

I

Treatment plan, but really the intent was with the conservation christian. They were trying to.

I

Understand where the drainage, where the drainage went gotcha? Oh okay, do you want to see that on.

I

The po I mean that's the one stephanie. I have it right in front of me um yeah. She I think she has.

I

It too, okay, the fourth sheep yeah, so um what it is cory is basically the light brown area goes to.

I

The wet pond which is in dark and then the green, the light green area goes to the dark green area.

I

Which is the bioretention? The conservation commission wanted to see how the drainage was.

I

Flowing and where the outlets were okay, so there's an outlet. um You can actually see it in the blue.

I

Up uh on the north side, that's the outlet and then down on the south side too. Okay, great and.

D

I know there's a lot of comments in the packet from the conservation, commission and stuff about.

D

The impacts of the prime wetland from the sewer connection that has all been eliminated by going.

D

Out yeah, there's nothing going on back there I mean the town. uh The city does have a sewer.

I

That runs back out behind behind this property right, that's where we were originally going to.

I

Go okay but yeah, that's all been eliminated all right and another comment from the conservation.

D

Commission was to include nofa standards within the uh condominium documents. I didn't see anything.

D

On the plans reflecting that, for you know, uh pertaining to the stabilization of the site at.

D

Completion would you guys be opposed to doing anything. You agree to that yeah yeah john yeah.

I

John's gonna have that in the doc, okay, fantastic- um and I guess this is more just kind of building.

D

Upon the whole, um I'm curious to see how the uh um how the development group thought about this, but.

D

There's so you guys have the trail. That's going out to court there's already an existing trail.

D

That goes to that sewer, easement right and then the sewer easement itself is a trail that not only.

D

You know provides recreation out there, but it also connects all the way over to.

D

The I forget the name of the neighborhood, but nathaniel street I think, is the one over there.

D

Did you guys have any discussions with the city about how to.

D

Not develop that, but you know create a trail system because people are going to use that.

D

Already I mean it's already a trail they're going to continue using it. So why not try to actually.

D

Because it's such a sensitive environment try to establish a trail that you know, people.

D

Aren't wandering all over the place. Yeah we had a lot of discussions and andrew was on.

I

The conservation commission at the time, and so we had trails that were in out connected.

I

Not connected so I think that's something and andrew you can correct me if I'm wrong that the.

I

Conservation, commission really wants to take a bigger look at all the land because to your point,.

I

The city owns everything to the south and to the west, and they wanted. I think they were trying to.

I

Have a philosophical discussion among themselves is how much public access and where and who.

I

Maintains it and safety, and um am I saying that right yeah, absolutely I was gonna say it sounded.

J

Like at the time, the applicant had uh interest and and willingness to participate in that type of.

J

Discussion but the city just could not make it a ruling on it at the time for this proposal, and so.

J

It's a further matter, obviously it can be brought up in the future, and I think that the applicant.

J

And future development partner would would be willing to do it. There was no resolution right.

J

Then, and there okay, I think that's an initiative that the city- I I think the city in general- wants.

I

To look at all the public lands and access, and, and you know where to allow people and.

I

Not allow people safety, not safety, but that was the discussion. We had a number of discussions and.

I

um But yeah we were not trying to preclude public access um and the final decision was.

I

Go with what we have coach road's already there there's already a trail to your point.

I

We're not going to stop people from walking through here. You know they can walk through.

I

We have some way stations for uh pets. No coach road is currently blocked off correct the park.

D

Part way down partly: yes, is it the intention to open it all the way to the cul-de-sac, so that or.

D

Is it going to continue to be blocked? It's a city road with city property around it, okay, yeah, okay,.

D

So there hasn't been any discussions on trying to open or start maintaining the road, because.

D

It's really kind of non-maintained. At this point I don't know what the city's doing internally yeah.

A

Thank you well just greg on corey's point. I have a question before um so with respect to the.

A

Public access easements, I I didn't see public asset access, easements defined. Yet it sounds like.

A

You want to reserve those for a future discussion. The conservation commission didn't want them.

I

They they they didn't, want public access, easements. We we had that discussion and again.

I

Andrew correct me, if I'm wrong, but that's fairly accurate yeah and they couldn't determine what.

J

The highest and best use or if any use would be applicable to this and again obviously, because.

J

There's a public acc excuse me: public works entrance there there's a dog trail and then.

J

You have two three or four different neighborhoods that would be contributing to traffic, in that that.

J

Foot trail, so we could not make the determination at the time that it would be either beneficial or.

J

Disadvantageous to not do it on advertisers. Can I add one more comment to this. Okay, just this one.

A

Maybe I misunderstood corey's comment. Okay, people are already using it. Are we using the alignment.

A

Of the sewer line, yeah, that's off our property, that's that's not on that's completely off not.

A

That that line going through the the red hatched area is off-site well, yeah, I'm sorry! It's in the.

I

um Nrp zone the national resource protection zone, but that that's your property correct, but but they.

I

Again, I don't want to speak for the conservation commission, but they didn't know if they wanted.

I

People out there to be walking around because that, in their view, it's a very sensitive area.

A

Okay, you've clarified it all right, councilman, I'm just thinking that you know within the next couple.

C

Of years that rail trail, that's all back behind all this property is going to get done um because.

C

It's in the plan to get done through the state and then it will be turned over to the city at.

C

Which point we'll have our own process to be able to figure out access points to the rail trail and.

C

It might be that the end of that road, where the cul-de-sac is, will be the possibility, or at least.

C

At that time, the city can actually really look into the access for the public. That would actually.

C

Get them out to the rail trail, and I think that neighborhood could feed into that as well.

A

Okay, where I was going, was just whether there needed to be a note on the plan about reserving.

A

The right to have that conversation in the future, um but if that that's up to the board so jane you.

A

Have well, this is related to this because we have in our memo. You know it's very explicit that tac.

E

You know wants us to look at deeded public access to the proposed open space and undeveloped portion.

E

Of the property that abuts city-owned parcels so there's some portion of this.

E

That's not city, that's not part of the from what I'm hearing the conservation conversations that.

E

We need to have a discussion that they're saying is outstanding about deeded public access, so.

I

That was for the front 10 acres that the the 10 acres that the city's getting the conservation.

I

Easement on the um can you go to the second sheet. Second sheet: there you go so it's the green.

I

Hatched area to the bottom that that's, what's being that's going to the city of conservation.

I

Easement, so that's what the discussion is. Does the city want pass from coach road on there or not.

I

We don't care, it doesn't matter, we're not developing it. We're not. You know it doesn't affect.

I

Our development, it's really an internal discussion with the city to decide. Do you want to open up.

I

Coach road to the public, and do you want to have a walking path through there? We have our path.

I

Stops there at the our formal path stops where the informal path ends, but there's a path out there. If.

I

You walk out there, you can, you can skirt around out there there's a four foot path from coach.

I

Road to there so we're not precluding we're, not stopping the city from doing that. That that'll be.

I

Your easement, you can decide what you want to do with it, we don't care and- and we had two or.

I

Three meetings with the conservation commission that we just didn't get clear consensus. I mean.

I

So we're not we're not precluding you from doing it, it'll be your easement.

A

Okay, sorry, if I'm being obtuse but just have this so that's in the green we just described.

A

On the red, it's a sewer easement only, but people are using it informally. No, the whole red is the.

I

Natural, that's in the conservation easement. Now that's from 1985, with the uh the mitigation site.

I

That's the one that the conservation commission was pretty clear. They did not want.

I

To see pass out through that area right, but but there is a sewer easement that goes across it.

A

Right, um yeah, it's weight. It's swinging the bathroom right in the middle. I think it's.

I

Right in the middle, I'm sorry, I can't just see that yeah, it's right in the middle okay.

A

And that was not what the attack was.

A

Peter d peter brits do you know was that was tack talking about the north piece of the south peace.

K

Is about the public access, so the green is going to be worked out in the site review agreement to.

K

Be deeded to the city, the applicants agreed to that. That's part of the community space.

K

Required for the site and then the public access the conservation commissioner, wasn't interested in.

K

Doing heavily developed trails through the site, but I think the piece on public access that was.

K

Needed a little more discussion was if someone wanted to come in and walk their dog.

K

Could they park on the site and walk through that trail and did the planning board you know want to.

K

Discuss that that was more of the discussion, I think that that we were talking to in the memo.

K

The trail that um corey is referring to is along the sewer line. Easement, it's a wide access road.

K

To to maintain the sewer- and that goes all the way from the rye pump station, almost on lafayette road.

K

At the town line and city line, all the way up to the nathaniel, neighborhood and people can.

K

Get that whole way on that on that right away right now, it's not an organized trail. It's not.

K

Developed as such, but it's easy to walk and quite nice out there. The whole area is so wet that.

K

The conservation cushion concern is cutting new trails through wetland areas.

A

Okay, now I've got a legal question. Is that sewer easement? Does that allow.

A

Public access for hiking, or is it just a sewer easement.

K

It's city property. It's just that! It's it's not! I believe it's just! It's not precluded.

A

On the red on the red part,.

L

Red part is also an easement to the city, so yeah it's but it's very wet in the red part.

A

Well, I'll stop asking questions.

A

E

Well, just uh sorry just just for, like I don't know,.

E

Real incredible clarity about this. So if people wanted to park, not walk from other places in rye.

E

Or whatever, but they wanted to park to access all of these acres. What are their options right now.

E

Coach road and his coach, so can they just legally park on coach road? They do they do now.

F

It's a city street.

K

Yeah, um michael's right so this it's a city, street coach road, it has goes back to a cul-de-sac. It was.

K

Closed off because people were dumping material back there, so they put a barrier to stop people.

K

From going back and dumping because you're really out of sight, once you go all the way.

K

Back to the cul-de-sac, so it's perfectly open for people to go back. The problem is.

K

If you go all the way down coach road you're, going to hit a big wetland and you're not going to get very far so you're pretty much on the road. But this one connection through private.

K

Property, which is formerly private property that they're going to need to the city they're.

K

Showing a potential connection on a trail and the discussion with the conservation commission.

K

Was whether to develop that trail or not, and I think councillor moreau is right, it's probably.

K

Better for a bigger discussion about what the city wants of it, we own it. We can do we want, but when.

K

They get to this development, will they be able to travel through it? I guess that's the question.

A

Thank you peter.

J

One resonating comment is some of the conditions for approval outline measures to.

J

Mitigate or eliminate anticipated into impacts on traffic safety and circulation anytime. That.

J

Anything happens on route 1. There are concerns about just driver awareness.

J

Even though it may not warrant a traffic light, it may be best to have some sort.

J

Of acknowledgement on route 1 that says here are 50 brand new homes. How can we.

J

Better equip drivers in this area that make this travel brewed every day. Just more aware,.

J

And I don't know what form or structure that takes, but that's just a thought in my head.

J

It's also very sunny when you're driving that way during sunset hour, so.

A

Well, we can't restrict the sun, no, we can't you can't do that. Just wanted! Yeah.

A

I guess the state the state will be looking at the uh the whole access question.

A

And uh you know, access management on that whole stretch is a big big issue, so.

A

I'm not sure how to I mean, I know ways to do: uh driver information systems but they're very.

A

Expensive- and I don't know that a 50 home project would be fast across that threshold.

A

A

A

This will open it up for public comment, public hearing.

A

Anybody would like to speak 2-4 against the application.

A

Public hearing is open now.

A

Anybody on zoom.

A

Nobody second time their time. Nobody was to speak close to public hearing.

D

D

Mr chairman, I'll make a motion that we vote to request that the applicant.

D

Re because we got to do this one first, I believe, vote to request that the applicant.

D

Revise the plans to comply with the requirements of section 10.5 b, 92.

D

Related to the provision of an eight foot, wide pedestrian walkway throughout the site. Second,.

D

Yeah, I think I think um you know the board at least I'm seeing. I think we'd like to see.

D

A little bit more and I'm not sure if um this is the correct place to probably discuss it. But.

D

I think it might be a stipulation further on, um but at least my thinking is with this site is.

D

We have a sewer easement um that the city has back there, there's already vehicular traffic on it.

D

Granted not very often it is somewhat rutted back there. It's probably in need of some repair anyways.

D

Off of that, we have a connection to this site um which this the proposed trail from court over to.

D

The site is going to, basically you mean you can see the sewer easement from where this proposed.

D

Trail is going to be so. People are naturally going to want to go that way. I believe there.

D

Is a section where you, where the current trail or path through the woods is out of the wet? It's.

D

Within the buffer, but it's uh it's not within the wetland and um and then to build upon ms monroe's.

D

uh Comment about future connection, there's already a connection at the end of nathaniel, where people.

D

Are cutting through? It's probably, I think, some of its city, some of it's private, but they are.

D

Accessing the rail trail from there one issue that this site has directly connecting to the.

D

Rail trails, it's all prime wetland between the rail trail and this sewer easement. In fact, I I.

D

Commend the surveyors that blaze, the property line through there, it was it's pretty thick.

D

So I think I I would like to see something. You know the developer work with the city to.

D

To build upon the trails back there now that might be in conflict with what the conservation.

D

Commission was was suggesting back here, but the way I see it, it's already being used. It's going.

D

To continue being used, um the city has a sewer easement that they access this. I forget how many.

D

Manhole structures out there that they probably periodically inspect that, um and maybe mr pizzulo.

D

Can correct me on this, but you know the the easements in rough shaping is going to have to be.

D

Fixed in the near future, anyways, which is going to have its whole assortment of wetland impacts. So I.

D

Think one thing that I would like to see is the applicant work with the city to produce a report.

D

Such that, if they were going to develop a trail to this sewer easement, you know what potential.

D

Wetland impacts if it was a six foot wide um mulch trail or six foot wide gravel path. You know what.

D

What are the impacts going to be, um and, and how can we make it work? I think also.

D

Some some signage has to be provided on court because right now, court, it certainly looks far.

D

From a city road, um it's it's quite overgrown and um although it's paved all the all the cracks in.

D

The pavement have three foot tall grass coming out of them, so there's some work to be done to.

D

And you know incentivize people to actually go down there and use these trails so I'll.

D

Just I'll make that comment, I think it's probably more um prudent to actually do a stipulation in.

D

The site plan approval, but maybe I'm wrong on that. If someone else has anything else to add.

A

Yes, councilman, um I just want to make sure, and maybe our planning director can help me.

C

We are just talking about um revising the plans to make sure that the pedestrian path.

C

Is a certain width right or is it to make sure it's connected? That is the staff recommendation.

M

That you take a look and whether you decide it's adequate staff's recommendation is that.

M

That com, the existing pedestrian connections, combined with the trail, do seem to uh provide a.

M

Reasonable support for the use that's proposed, which is a little bit less activity than.

M

You might expect, with mixed use, site a little less pedestrian activity, sustained level of activity.

M

That the proposed sidewalks uh seem to be consistent with the.

M

Reasonable for the use that's provided, but we will leave that to the planning board to decide.

M

If maybe additional pedestrian pathways, but we were only speaking about that pedestrian.

M

Integration eight foot integration throughout the developed portion of the site, the developed.

C

Portion of the site, because, right now it really just runs along the edge of the wetlands right.

M

You can see some sidewalks along the fronts of some of the condominiums, but there there is some.

M

Sidewalk connections and crosswalks, but there is it is not. uh I wouldn't say that it's 100.

M

Compliant with that particular section, I think that was our assessment, but seems reasonable.

M

For the use, but we will leave it up to you to see whether you believe that that is reasonable.

C

For the site right, I guess I I see now what you're talking about. I was a little disconnected and all.

C

That it's probably because it's very disconnected right um and I think it's a it's a there's going.

C

To be a lot of people, so I guess my always my concern is: are there going to be a lot of children.

C

And so, if they're going to be a lot of children, then you'd want them to have safe ways to walk.

C

Throughout the site, but we can't predict whether or not there will- or there won't be right so.

C

I guess I'm a little torn as to whether or not it's a necessity. I it is a lot of people, but.

C

Reasonable people, I don't think anyone's going to be driving too fast within here. It's all private.

C

Property, so if they can manage, you know walking on the sides of the parking lot where the cars.

C

Are then I don't have a problem with it the way it is, I don't think there's going to be a lot of.

C

Actual people outside other than invited guests that are actually going to be visiting this site.

C

That's my opinion, I'll. Let other people get theirs.

A

Just one corey on your motion, you were following the recommendation. Were you thinking because.

A

I think a few of us at least are confused about where these I very well could be too.

A

Is the is the motion perhaps to do as as recommended, but also to generally clarify.

A

The pedestrian access throughout the property is that is that too much. uh I think in this case.

D

I've you know, even though I rambled on for a while, I think, councilman rose. You.

D

Know correct in the sense that really only this item really only pertains to.

D

The walkway within the actual developed site, not so much outside so uh with that being said,.

D

I think, like like councilman rose, said I you know. I think it's.

D

I think it works for this particular site, um but if the board feels that.

D

It needs to be up to eight feet wide. Then we can go ahead and move that way.

A

So your motion would only pertain to a walkway on sheet c3, for example,.

A

Which is just the developed part of the site correct it's just the development.

A

Is that what you intended? That's exactly what we were talking about.

M

The developed portion of the site.

J

Is there an existing sidewalk on that entrance not existing, but is proposed on the site development.

J

Plan with color this one is there currently. Is there a sidewalk there? Is that your question.

J

So is that a proposed sidewalk behind units through 50., that is.

C

Okay, yeah that that's that's the walking pathway that they put in. I see yeah.

K

Peter mr chair and members of the board, if you want me to clarify a little bit on that, I think.

K

I can um so the 8 foot wide pedestrian path in the gateway district they've provided an.

K

8 8 foot wide path through the site, it's just not in front of every single building, so that was the.

K

Clarification we were trying to make. We didn't do a very good job clearly, but but the idea was that.

K

They provided the path, but they didn't provide every single place, but they did but but sort.

K

Of as a as a way to bolster that they provided that eight-foot path in the natural area behind.

K

The building, so, if you take the two together, uh counselor monroe had a concept that that.

K

Might make it approvable, but I don't want to. We just wanted you to at least consider that and.

K

It was hard, I guess, to express how to get you to consider it. Hopefully that helps. Thank you, peter.

A

So the the way it's depicted now you're, you think the attack was and conservation at least.

A

Tack was good with that tack was good with it; they actually changed it. um I think at the in.

K

The attack process to include more area more more frontage through the site they expanded. It.

D

So, in other words, peter they've they've actually already complied with the.

D

Provision of an eight foot wide pedestrian walkway throughout the site- yeah, it's just not in front.

D

Of every building, it's really the sidewalks in front of the buildings there's just a few.

K

Buildings, it doesn't go in front of, and so that's the missing link and where this is a residential.

K

Development and not a mixed-use development staff's recommendation was, it's probably meets.

K

It but we wanted to point it out that it's not in front of every building, as the ordinance requires.

K

It's in front of most of the buildings, and it includes a path in the back.

A

So to beat this horse one more last time the eight-foot walkway throughout the site.

A

Is adequately depicted on the plans that were presented this evening? Yes,.

M

It seems reasonable, what's proposed, seems reasonable to staff based on the greenway.

M

Combined with the connections that they've already provided, although it doesn't meet the exact.

M

Letter, it seems to me the spirit and the intent based on the use. That's provided to the site.

E

Can I just ask one more question I don't really know of who is it's somebody on the project.

E

So if you're a kid and you're like I don't know a 13 year old kid and you have a new bike.

E

So your options for where you can go with your bike is sometimes on this sidewalk. Sometimes.

E

In the parking lot in the 3800 open space, if you have a certain kind of bike.

E

And maybe you can access these trails on your bike or not um I'm. I came up to clarify a point. I know.

K

You guys are in a motion mode, so I probably should right. So I think if the board, the board actually.

A

Has to approve that kind of a question of the applicant at this point? Oh yes! So um if the board.

A

It actually requires a board vote. Does the board wish to ask that question? Are we good with.

A

What we have, I think we have enough information to move forward.

E

Thanks: okay, we have a.

A

Motion- and I think I might have messed things up a little bit with folks but.

A

I think we have a motion, at least with respect to the first element. So, mr chairman, even though.

D

I I made the motion, I'm just going to say: um the vote is to request that the applicant revise the.

D

Plans to comply with the requirements right, so we can vote it down. Thank you. Counselor.

A

So, following up on that, we actually don't need that.

A

Is that well, we should take a vote. We should take a vote on it.

A

So we have a motion to require something. That's already there.

A

All those in favor all those opposed hi hi, all right.

A

Motion to require something: that's already, there is bales, so.

D

All right, mr chairman, I'll, make a motion that we vote to approve the wetland condition use permit.

D

With the following stipulations: 1.1 and 1.2 in the staff memo along with, um I would like to add.

D

um A couple more here, one being um the applicant, include nofa standards on the plans and then the.

D

Other stipulation would be mr semano's, the outfall monitoring. You wanted to see weekly monthly.

D

Or what what we I I'm sorry, I didn't catch everything that, when you were discussing it.

J

It was more a remark about how it would be handled.

J

With a condo association, less the physical plans in place now, if the om plan is.

J

Under something of our consideration and voting power, then I would say that yes, something more.

J

Frequent than annual would be suggested, given that the fact that it's right next to that sensitive.

J

Body of water, okay, so so something like quarterly. That would be great okay. So the stipulation that.

D

The applicant or the the um the operation and maintenance plan for the site include.

D

The requirement for quarterly outfall monitoring um at the stormwater outfalls, yes and everything.

J

That is, within their om plan, looked great, it's just a matter of how often that is done. Okay,.

A

That okay, second second.

A

Any further discussion, I guess you explained your motion.

G

Thank you agreed.

A

Any other discussion.

A

All those in favor, aye, aye aye, opposed motion carries unanimously. Mr chairman, I'll make a.

D

Notion that we vote to find that the application meets the requirements of section 10.5, b, 43.10 and.

D

Grant a conditional use permit for a development site subject to the requirements and conditions.

D

Of the site plan review approval, so um I think uh you know I think the applicant went through.

C

First, second, thank you counselor. So speaking on that um you know, the applicant went through the.

D

How this uh development meets the standards of the cep? You know it's a, although it's a.

D

It's a purely residential there's, no mixed use. um I think in this.

D

This area of portsmouth there's a lot of this similar development, a lot of townhouse condo.

D

Type developments there's another another site, adjacent, that's being proposed as well, um and you.

D

Know it does kind of on the on the face. It does seem to kind of lack the um the the public you.

D

Know the ability to bring the public in. However, I think, um given what I discussed already with.

D

The uh the possible trail networks, I think I think it's a great idea to uh really start using court.

D

And allow the public to park along that to access this area, so I do think I do think there are ways.

D

To um bring the public into this this site to really kind of engage the public for this um and.

D

Yeah, I guess once again, you know it meets the the character of the neighborhood to me, and I also you.

D

Know greatly appreciate the large quantity of land that's going in the conservation easement. um You.

D

Know this this does, like I mentioned before, uh butts up to a very large um tract, not only the.

D

One that they showed tonight, but a budding tracks of conservation land. That's already.

D

Managed by the southeast uh land trust, so I think I think that works as well. Thank you.

A

Councilman um just to follow up and add a few points to that. I agree with everything that mr.

C

Clark said the other issues when we start to talk about consistency with our master plan.

C

When we were doing the gateway district zoning, we did want to make these little village centers, but.

C

It was because we were thinking about the concept of all of these commercial properties and trying.

C

To build residential into them, which is what the portsmouth green is turning into right. You have a.

C

Commercial center we're trying to build residential around it. In this case, there.

C

Isn't anything there right now right, there's not really a commercial buildings or stores or.

C

Anything going on so with the lack of housing that is in this entire state, not just the city.

C

I think, in addition of this, many units is going to be much appreciated and because it's a bit.

C

Off of the actual main road, I think it's going to be appropriate and I think it's going to work out.

C

And I think it fits all of our requirements and I actually went and looked at the tax maps in pretty.

C

Much every corner of this property and all of the wetlands is all surrounded by city-owned property.

C

So at this point there is a lot of connection that the city can make from this property out.

C

To the rail trail- and I think that will be a future discussion that we'll all have.

A

Okay and just one quick point on the master plan, consistency in my experience, you know consistency.

A

With the master plan doesn't require you to be consistent with all elements of the master plan.

A

You have to be consistent with the elements you you're able to be consistent with.

A

And there are unique aspects to this property that I think have resulted in the design that we have.

A

Before us, and one of the comments the applicant made about you know being back from the road.

A

As much as we would like to think, we can have villages that don't have much traffic access.

A

For retail and commercial, it is still needed and we I wouldn't want to require something.

A

We want the board to require something that was going to fail, so I think it's. It is consistent.

A

With the elements that it can be consistent with sorry, I jumped in anybody else want to add.

E

I just like to add that I do appreciate the six foot fence that you know blocks.

E

The backyards of the people who are who it appears have been long-term residences.

E

Along lafayette, road feeling, you know the full impact of that development as much as possible.

A

Okay, we have a motion. Second, I think we have talked about it.

A

And no other conversation on the discussion. All those in favor aye.

J

Aye aye aye opposed motion carries unanimously.

D

Mr chairman, I'll make a motion that we vote to grant site plan approval with.

D

The following stipulations: 3.1 to 3.7 under conditions, precedent conditions.

D

Subsequent, I think the numbering might be off in the staff memo, but uh 3.8 3.9.

D

And I would also like to add a 3.10 which would be the applicant work with the the city on.

D

Ways to provide meaningful access to that sewer, easement.

D

On the western part of the property, obviously, in this case you know, I wouldn't want to go above.

D

And beyond you know the applicant, you know the uh the part of the sewer easement. That's.

D

On the applicant's parcel, but uh I think I think if the applicant can and let's see.

D

How the rest of the board, since I'm the only one that's kind of talked about this, but.

D

I think when I say working with the city, I don't know if it's um best to develop a.

D

A report saying you know if you were to put trails in here here and here. This is what you know. The.

D

Impacts would be or or something like that so um I'll leave it at that, and maybe we can um figure.

D

This out, I think that was a motion in a second and you were trying to explain, and I I was trying to.

D

Explain it yeah, I get, I actually got it yeah the stipulation, but it kind of fell apart on me. So.

A

So just so I understand it. The concern is, let's be specific, along the sewer, the city sewer, easement.

A

To have additional access along that or not you're thinking other other parts of the site. I.

D

Think well, yeah, just this just the sewer easement, because in reality, if you go back there, there's.

D

Really, no other viable areas. The sewer easement is built up in the wetland for the sewer, so.

D

um It's already kind of a natural, well unnatural trail, it's man-made! So.

D

um I don't see any other viable trails through this area because it is so um like you can't even.

D

Get from the end of court to that sewer easement without it's just standing water everywhere.

D

And so um and that's why there's already kind of an existing trail from this um from the developed.

D

Area out to the sewers: that's the only dry spot. So that's that's why I kind of bring.

D

It up people are going to use it because it's the only dry area to access that sewer, easement.

A

Council room are you so we had the red area where the the existing conservation unit and then we.

C

Have the green area where the city is going to have the easement? Are you talking through the red.

C

Area or the green area, that's where I'm confused uh it would. I guess it would be both because that.

D

Sewer easement runs all the way from nathaniel straight down through those two well, it does a.

D

Jog, at the top around a couple of yeah the end of nathaniel, where that corner is a city-owned.

C

Property already yeah, and so that's where the trail well, detroit, the sewer easement connects.

D

Right on that corner, so in in in essence, I mean in all sincerity, I think the city's probably already.

C

With in control of so much of the land that's around there and with the 10 acres at the bottom.

C

Of this site, I guess I I don't really see the reason, because the only people that would go.

C

From this development to that would be through, the red would be people from this area right.

C

That's I'm just trying to make sure I fully well I mean I I guess eventually I envisioned is you.

D

Would have not only people from this development accessing the series, but people from nathaniel.

D

Accessing the sewer easement and then you would also have the adjacent development. That's before.

D

Us as well accessing the trail network, and so I'd rather see them go down and use the rail trail.

C

Versus on the sewer easement through the conservation wetland, so I think we'd rather.

C

Actually not want them to go that way. We'd rather push them from the corner nathaniel over.

C

To where the the real rail trail is going to be built and have people use access, either from.

C

The end of chase or that corner of nathaniel through this already city owned property. There.

C

That's just you know my opinion, I just I. I think this is such a sensitive area that the fact that.

C

It's already disturbed by a sewer easement is one thing, but to disturb it more, I think.

C

Would be more harmful than good and and I I would certainly agree with you other than the fact that.

D

The in order for the city to get vehicles down there they're going to have to upgrade.

D

That soon anyways, because it's all rutted out it's already a mess back there from.

D

Dpw trying to get back there turn around that sort of thing right. So you know I just like.

D

I said you can see it right from the back of this. Where these I mean the last unit is going.

D

To be able to see that clearing okay, so people are going to use it anyways. So why not try to.

D

You know get something that's more established than have something where you have. You know.

D

Residents are throwing down pallets and stuff to try to you know, get out there.

D

With their dogs so or we could just restrict them from being able to go there to begin with.

C

I'm more into to say you know, there's going to be signs saying this is wetland and I'd rather put.

C

In a stipulation that it's it's stated that you know there's no entrance into that area, I think.

C

That would be better than you know telling them they can't do things like that versus.

C

Saying let's work to because I think there's going to be plenty of ways, they could walk right.

C

Down through this site, go through what the city is going to have and get out to the rail trail.

C

Without having to go through the real muck of the where the sewer easement is okay, I think.

A

We have two very good and different opinions um and spirited discussion. It's part of planet.

A

Yeah, no, that's! That's! That's all good! um I think we have one one notion of the fact that there is.

A

A physical space for people to use and walk- they probably don't have the legal right to do that.

A

Because sewer series don't give you that right, so they would technically would be inviting trespass.

A

Without an addition to that easement, which would require discussions with the landowner. So if, if.

A

And that that may be completely fine with the lineup, because.

A

If they put it onto the city as an addition to the eastman, then the city would be responsible for.

A

Maintaining that pedestrian access through there, that could be stipulations. A part of the easement.

A

That's one way to look at it and I think that's what your motion.

A

And second was so: I think the board has to decide if the board would like to see.

A

Something like that, but before we vote on it I want do people understand it to talk about it. How.

A

That would work and then it's councilman roe's idea, which would be not to allow that somehow.

A

Fence it off, I guess, would have to be signed or something and they're already going to put signs.

C

On the that's the wetland buffer, so I think it would be easy to add additional language about.

C

That's about your emotion. First, we've got to get through his oh. This is my opinion about the motion.

A

A

Mr clark's motion is to.

A

Basically, have enhanced pedestrian access through the site, red and green areas along the sewer.

A

Easement, which may require an addition to the existing sewer easement language to allow that.

A

Any discussion about that, yes, jane, I'm, not exactly sure when the pedestrian trailway will actually be.

E

Built out, there seems like we talk about it a lot, um but in the meantime, if we're approving projects.

E

That encroach this this close to natural areas, then I think it is very natural that people are.

E

Going to be looking for places to walk and places to walk their dog, whether or not we like it so.

E

It's like the decision is, do we want to allow that legally or do we want to make it illegal.

E

That's how I see it so. For that reason I would vote to I vote in favor of cory's motion.

A

Any other discussion ray. Do you have a position on this? Well, I will say it is a challenge.

N

To maintain our sewer easements to wetlands and I think the added burden of traffic.

G

Pedestrian traffic on it may increase that challenge, and it's not something. That's.

G

I wouldn't say it's allowed right now. People use it, but it's not meant for that purpose. Right. So.

G

I'm not familiar with the rail trail, location or alignment, but it sounds like that might be.

G

A better option for pedestrians to explore this area and enjoy it than in the sewer easement.

G

Because it doesn't charge even for us to maintain it through wetlands, we have to deal with wetland.

G

Permits and other other conditions that we have to meet uh even just to maintain what we have.

A

Thank you cory. Did you yeah? I guess so this question council monroe, so you you suggesting.

D

When the rail trails developed they'll be able to make a direct connection to this.

D

This site from the rail trail, it's my imagination, because there's so much city-owned property around.

C

All of this that, yes, we're going to be able to because our now we have the city access all the.

C

Way up to the end of the last corner of this development, where this trail with this road.

C

Roadway uh pathway comes down sort of the the buffer side of it. I have a feeling that we could.

C

You know, definitely, I think it could be done and I think it's part of a larger conversation.

C

Because the rail trail, the state portion of that is anticipated to be done by the end of 2024.

C

And that will be then, when we can step in and add our enhancements to that in connections.

C

To that at our cost part of the cip right- and I you know- I- I totally agree with you on that one.

D

The only um the only issue I see is when you go the the area between the existing sewer, easement.

D

In the what the rail trail is is completely um prime wetland, it's it's untouched standing water.

D

Prime wetland, and so if now, if it was, if it was just uplands, I would totally agree with you. You.

D

Know we don't have to do anything with the sewer easement, let's just let's just you know, we'll do.

D

Something straight across in this case, it'd, be it'd, be a whole new wetland impact, for I.

D

Think it's it's got to be um almost an eighth of a mile quarter of a mile of prime wetland impacts.

D

If to make a direct connection, now, residents have been walking from the end of nathaniel.

D

Out to the rail trail, basically crossing uplands on skirting along the prime wetland.

D

um And it's not a you know, it's uh just residents have made a footpath through there.

D

And so I I envision, you know if, uh regardless of how we vote tonight, the easiest way for people to.

D

Access the rail trail from this property would be to go to the sewer easement. Follow that all the.

D

Way up to nathaniel and then take this trail from nathaniel out to the the the um the rail trail.

D

And I just think that's the natural way that people are going to use it, regardless of how we.

D

How we vote because there's so everything else is wet back there there's um it's just prime.

D

And that's why I made the comment about the surveyors because it was I mean it must have.

D

Taken them hours just to get through that one stretch um where they blaze the line so.

A

Okay, just greg, I don't think it makes any sense at all. A lot of the public took or encourage the.

H

Public to walk over a raised path through a swamp, you don't think I don't. I mean it's inviting it's.

H

Inviting trash into the wetlands that people bring with them, it's inviting you know, somebody's going.

H

To run their dogs off leash, they're going to go out into the swamp, I I just. I just think.

H

It's not that sewage easement, which is a raised construction thing with a pipe in it, isn't made to.

H

Be a pedestrian path, it would have to be modified to work as a pedestrian path, which is not our job.

H

As a city, it's a sewer agent. I don't think it should be turned into a path.

A

Okay, well, we definitely have some different opinions on this topic.

A

uh Liability you want to vote on it. I was just going to say: are we ready for a vote on the motion.

C

Wait a second wait, a second I would be concerned just because this was added as additional.

C

Stipulation to the site plan approval, maybe we could separate it out and vote on the site.

C

Plan approval and maybe vote on that separately, whether first or second, I don't really care. I just.

C

Wouldn't want to kill the entire site plan approval because of the one added stipulation.

C

That's all so you seconded right, thank you. So so would you accept a yeah? We can pull this.

D

Out and vote on it separately sure, so we want to vote on the site plan first, as presented.

A

As presented up through 33.9, I guess it is yeah misnumbered, but yes, 3.9.

A

Okay, so we have a motion. Second notice, no further discussion.

A

To approve the site plan up through 3.9, which is actually shown as 3.8, but it's 3.9.

A

All those in favor opposed site plan is unanimously approved. Now corey's motion 310.

A

Adequately presented adequately discussed any questions on the motion. Can you just clarify what it is? We are voting on.

A

Be a we're making notes, it's a request for the city for the applicant to further work with the.

C

City in the future for easement rights across the basically the conservation plan across the.

J

Sewer line series to well to it right across the series, but also to it yes got it yeah, which may.

A

Require new language in the sewer easement right, I understood so now. We understand it at least.

A

All those in favor aye.

A

This motion fails: did you want to make a now? My other was just a suggestion.

C

Of what I'd rather see, but I'm not going to make that motion, I'm good.

A

I'm finding it.

A

Do I believe the next item is c.

G

Three c, four c: okay,.

A

Okay, it's the crescent monarch, village, llc applicant half of indonesia, hospitality.

A

For property, 3548, lafayette, road requesting site plan approval and conditional use permit under as.

A

Permit under 10.541.10 of the zoning ordinance to allow demolition of six structures redevelopment.

A

Of six structures to create six units in building eight fifteen units and building two five units in.

A

Building four two units in building five: nine units of building seven, it's new construction.

A

Of four structures to create twelve units in building three with four thousand three to.

A

Three square feet of footprint: twenty four units of building six with 7048 square feet, footprint.

A

250 square foot, storage structure, 125 square foot, storage structure and a total of 75 residential.

A

Units with 123 parking spaces, where 113 are required, it's shown on the assessment map 297 lot.

A

6 and lies in the gateway corridor district g1. You are here to present yes, sir good evening. Everybody.

O

For the record, my name is eric sowery from alts engineering. um I've got a whole cast of characters.

O

With me tonight, so let me introduce uh well right here is vicky martel from woodburn associates.

O

She's here to talk about landscaping uh right next to her is monica kaiser from hopeful phoenix.

O

Gormley and roberts in case a legal question, comes up in the like unlikely event of that.

O

Happening representing monarch, village llc, I have norman lee and chris larocca in the back. There.

O

I believe john fitzpatrick is on zoom, I don't know if he is or not, but he said he was going to be.

O

We also have john krebs who's, providing planning uh support on this, and we also have.

O

Stephen perna to answer any traffic questions that may arise. Can we go to the aerial stuff.

O

Actually, I think it's right up at the top there.

O

Okay, 35 48 lafayette: uh this is the ren's nest. Motel.

O

uh It's been there for quite a while. Let's see.

O

Okay, um this is the site in here. This is the old where'd that go. This is the old tortilla.

O

Flat here this is a like, like commercial industrial uh facility, on the bottom here.

O

This piece behind it is the application you just heard to give you some context and of.

O

Course we have root one on this side here, uh the first building from what we can tell.

O

On this site was built in the 30s ever since then it's evolved as a very eclectic mix of.

O

Motel units uh there are your standard, motel, efficient efficiency units. There are a number.

O

Of standalone cottages, there are a few suites scattered and all throughout all those buildings.

O

You see there, the most recent one we believe was built in 1999, which is the larger building.

O

Right there, which also houses it in our pool, um paved and gravel parking that has.

O

A very interesting stormwater system, which I will talk about uh very soon here, uh so the.

O

Proposal is coming. Can I click ahead with this? I didn't think so: okay site plan? Yes, please, okay,.

O

What we're proposing to do is to take down a few of the smaller structures, retain the majority of.

O

The structures rehabilitate them for residential uses and add two new apartment buildings for a.

O

Total yield count of 75 units, which is the maximum allowed by zoning. We're looking at 113 parking.

O

Spaces, the indoor pool will unfortunately go away. We also have some amenities throughout there.

O

We have a dog park in the back here right there there's an existing, really nice patio.

O

That will stay. There's a bocce ball court, which we've added everybody wants to do pickleball so.

O

We wanted to be a little bit different, so I know you want pickleball. We went with bocce.

O

There's also a little trail that we're building out in behind here to create kind of a loop. If.

O

Anybody wants to walk their dog and there's also a connection right in here. It doesn't.

O

Show it on the plan out to the land that is to be conservation land as part of the prior proposal.

O

um Let's see, the whole thing is connected by eight foot, walkway coming all the way from route, one.

O

It's also an eight foot uh multi-use pass path here along route, one which.

O

Will ultimately connect to the rest of the route? One network once that gets built.

O

If ever it gets built, we do have a dumpster pad in the back here. This building here.

O

Which will no longer house? The pool will be for common laundry as well as a mail center.

O

Let's see, let's go to the next sheet, please.

O

Drainage um drainage out there now is interesting uh talk about yankee ingenuity, I'll put it that.

O

Way, I've never seen a system like this. It's cobbled together from cinder blocks and pipes.

O

And it works, it's shocking. It shouldn't work, but it does, but it is starting to fail. So what we're.

O

Looking to do here is to take that and pipe it into the back right now. It takes drainage from.

O

The tortilla flat site conveys it across the site, picking up runoff as it goes and dumps out onto.

O

The abutting property- it's been there over 20 years. It does have prescriptive easement rights.

O

But we stayed away from that and are going to take the drainage to the back. Everything will go into.

O

An infiltration based system throughout the whole site here, which will have an overflow which will.

O

Only see water and storms larger than the 10-year storm we're going to infiltrate the majority of.

O

The runoff here, which is absolutely fantastic and, of course, we're going to observe standard.

O

But best management practices for sediment and erosion control throughout construction.

O

Next, sheep, please utilities are also rather interesting. It's spaghetti out there. I've never.

O

Seen anything like it there's a plan that was for this building from 1999 and its lines going.

O

Everywhere, so it works shockingly, it works. What we're looking to do is replace all that with new.

O

Upgraded facilities uh so we're going to bring in new water, domestic and fire services. All the.

O

Way from the street, along with a new sewer line, which will have the proper sizing to mitigate the.

O

Slight flow increase in sewer, we are proposing a donation to the project, the sewer construction.

O

Project in the corridor there that has been negotiated with dpw, uh let's go to ahead of that.

O

Sewer, okay lighting lighting right now out, there is they've got these like old-school flood lights,.

O

Like all the way around the perimeter, nothing has cut off shields, nothing's lld, it's I don't.

O

Think they all work, but if they were all working it would be like a christmas tree back there. So.

O

We're proposing to take all those down and put in brand new led dars, dark sky compliant full cutout.

O

Pictures all downcast, so it's going to be bright enough in there. But it's not going to be your.

O

Christmas tree, which is great uh the next one, next one's you, I want to bring vicki up for landscaping.

G

Vicki martell from wood burning company landscape architecture, so the planting plan.

P

Here is very straightforward: there's a handful of trees at the entry that will be able to.

M

Save your winter there we go so there's some existing trees at the entry. Those will be retained.

P

There's another existing tree in front of that building and a couple here on the edge of the.

P

Parking lot, so those are large, mature trees that will be able to keep the rest of the trees that.

P

You see on the site plan going along the parking lot and in front of the buildings to soften them.

P

Those are all proposed, trees, they're, a mix of shade canopy trees. Some are native, some are not.

P

And then we also have three trees here. These are ammo lankiers they're, a native understory tree.

P

That's to do a little remediation in that area, where there's been some dumping, so that area.

P

Will be cleared seeded with a native seed mix and then those three trees will be installed there.

O

I would like to touch on something that vicky did talk about, that. I missed um right in here. There's.

O

A dump site: it's a pile of junk old mattresses, bricks, pieces of cinder block, it's just whatever.

O

They wanted to throw away and not drag to the dump. They threw back there. It's in the wetland buffer.

O

So the plan is to remove all that junk by hand. No machines rake out the area seated.

O

And add those few trees back there to bring that back? There is a small well an off site, which was.

O

Found as part of the other budding proposal, so the buffer does infringe upon this property. So.

O

That's why it's like it is: um can you go for the first color architecture.

O

Yes, keep going.

O

Okay, these are photos of the existing site, um as you can see, it's, um as I said, an eclectic.

O

Collection of buildings, um structurally they're in really good shape, believe it.

O

Or not, a lot of the systems are actually pretty good as well. Some of them do need some cosmetic.

O

Work, which is good definitely part of the proposal, go another more photos, one more.

O

Okay, this was an example of residing uh the first building on the right, as you go in just changes.

O

The color essentially no changes to windows and it does add a few new doors. uh One more.

O

Okay, this is the first new building on the right hand, side very basic.

O

Colonial style, it does have some juliet balconies standard, clapboard, siding again.

O

We're not downtown we're not in the historic district, so the fancy fancy stuff is something.

O

You're not going to see in this district, I think two ahead. Next to the next color one.

O

Okay- and this is the larger building on the left-hand side in the back. This is 24 units.

O

Very similar to construction and design uh you're, just your peach roof gable ends.

O

And juliet balconies um can we go back to the site.

O

Okay, this site is not in urban compact, so the traffic is under the jurisdiction of d.o.t.

O

We did do a traffic study which was submitted to dot. We got comments back today about four hours.

O

Before the meeting we haven't really absorbed them, yet we don't really see any show stoppers.

O

At all, there may be a few modifications to the entrance again, no showstoppers.

O

So very very simple: the only other state permit we need is a sewer discharge. Permit.

O

Because we are adding new manholes to the new sewer run and uh that's it in a nutshell.

O

Any questions guys we get to questions, I forgot to say mr hewitt made it clear. He was recusing.

A

Himself on this one and mr d ranzo was going to sit for him on this application. Now, questions.

D

Thank you, mr chairman, um I noticed uh so is your proposed stormwater system, all perforated pipe.

D

uh A big portion of it uh one sheet ahead.

O

Yeah right there uh we have offline catch basins with sumpts and grease hoods.

O

Tributary to drainage lines that are perfect they're in a stone trench.

O

Which are going through a series of leaching drain manholes? I did a very similar system like this.

O

Over 20 years ago, on nathaniel way, which is right in the neighborhood here, uh because the.

O

Soils here are fantastic. I did test bits here on the site and I haven't seen sand like that. Unless.

O

It was trucked into a site, it was absolutely beautiful, so it lends itself to infiltration.

O

As I said, the overflow, which is right here only sees water at the very tail end of a 10-year.

O

Storm event- and here we're using the 10-year plus 15 percent, because we're in a coastal community.

O

So that's 5.6 inches of rainfall, which is a massive storm. So most of the time everything's.

O

Infiltrated: okay, great! Thank you, yeah, the one. Just one comment on that outfall it looked like it was.

D

The elevation on the plans may not have matched exactly on the hydrocad so but.

D

That's kind of beside the point I just wanted to make that that comment, but I could check that.

D

Yeah, I I think it's a great idea if you can get away with the infiltration it works. I.

O

Was very conservative in my infiltration rates and, as I said, the sand was beautiful. Thank you.

E

I just have a question similar to 3400 lafayette, about connection um at least to bus routes, or you.

E

Know working towards that yeah I mean the trailer park across the street. Is the last stop on coast.

O

uh It's probably about a thousand feet away. You could walk there. I would advise that you do that.

O

Given that it's route one- um but I I don't know if coast has any plans to bring the route down.

O

Farther, um I would assume that, as the corridor develops more giving, we just have the project next.

O

Door and 75 units here there will be definitely a demand for it, so I don't see why they wouldn't we.

O

Can reach out to them if you'd like and just ask the question again the question of their schedules.

O

And what works for them? But we haven't done that. Yet we have not reached out at the present time.

H

Greg might be premature, you're just in design phase. I guess.

H

But price point: these are going to be rentals.

O

These are not condos they're, they're rentals. um As far as uh pricing, I believe market rate.

O

Is the term that's tossed around that fluctuates on a daily basis in portsmouth? So again we don't.

O

Know what the rates are going to be at the present time more than I pay, I'm assuming.

A

Right yeah, I do have one comment on the sewer design.

N

Typically, I'm not sure what if it was mentioned earlier to you, but.

N

The end of the line towards the back of the property, you typically require a terminal manhole.

G

You just have to clean out. We we have a clean out and dpw didn't ask for a manhole, uh we're probably.

G

Gonna be asking for manhole. Okay, I mean that's, that's easy. I mean we did put a cleanup revision.

O

There, but I said the same thing, but they didn't ask for something: okay, let's go with it thanks.

C

um Can you tell me if you have varying sizes of units, I know there's varying.

C

Numbers of units, but what are the actual like bedroom and size of them? I can tell you that.

O

O

18 renovated studios, 15 renovated one bedrooms, three renovated two bedrooms and then in the.

O

New buildings they're completely two bedroom units, so it's 36 two bedrooms and there are three three.

O

Bedrooms renovated as well, so it's a pretty good mix it. It goes more towards the single folk, but.

O

There is provision some people, you know the family could live there, so there is the room. Thank you.

A

I congratulate you on showing crosswalks, I'm just.

A

Curious why you didn't put a sidewalk on the south side.

O

That was left there just to maximize the green space.

O

We added this little section to tie some of these parking spaces into this building, but we didn't.

O

See the need for a crosswalk on both sides, we did add. Actually can you go back one sheet? Please.

O

Thank you um added a crosswalk right here, so if you're on the network on.

O

This side, you can get over to the open space here to the patio the bocce court.

O

The there's also horseshoes in the back here, so we didn't see the need for that extra impervious.

O

I'd rather have it green, but there is a link to it from the sidewalk network.

A

Well, I get that and I know that adults won't have any issues walking down the driveway, but I'm just.

A

Thinking about kids yeah, the part of the design here lends itself to a slower speed, got a lot of.

O

Curvature in there got a lot of signage in there you got the picture of the guy in the crosswalk.

O

As well as the painted crosswalks throughout so it should be pretty slow. Everyone thinks when.

O

They see a parking lot, they think it's a walmart everyone's going to get run over. It's not the.

O

Case in a residential development like this, it should be pretty quiet and when you presented.

A

You said 113 parking spaces, but that's what's required. I think you're actually proposing more.

A

Than that yeah we actually ended up, um there's a typo and it was also a condition beverly. You were.

O

Correct I was supposed to take away eight spaces to bring it down 113. I only took away seven that.

O

Was a miscount on my part beverly, I'm sorry, uh so it is intended to be 113.. Okay, peter did you have.

A

Jane, I don't know if I'm allowed to make this comment or not, but I'm gonna make it.

E

Until somebody closes me down that, I think it's I understand it's not downtown. I understand it's.

E

Rental units- I have no, you know we don't know yet what's the price point, but it's at least.

E

Market price market rate, which is pretty high in the seacoast, I would hope for a better.

E

Architectural design than the drab picture that you show for those new buildings. I actually think.

E

It's perhaps the ugliest thing I've ever seen personally, so I would like to offer something a.

E

Little more livable to people if at all possible. I I think it's I don't want to say beauties in the I.

O

Have the beholder they're definitely not beautiful buildings? I will not try to tell you that at all.

O

um It's just basic architecture, as you see in a lot of other apartment buildings, it's this site.

O

Though that you can't see from the street that's part of the reason yeah, but it's also trying to.

C

Minimize cost here, because if we minimize cost, we can minimize rent so downtown. One reason.

O

Why everything's so expensive is? We want all this fancy stuff? Because we want it to look historical.

O

We want brick, we want some nice wood. All these architectural, you know features.

O

Down here you can't see from the street it does meet the architectural requirements of the zone.

O

So I don't know how far we can take it, how many more bells and whistles that are just.

O

Aesthetic treatments at that point, so does that mean there will be a lower.

B

Does that mean there will be a lower price point, maybe just because of the location in.

O

The route one corridor- absolutely this is not downtown. This is this is not.

O

Whatever the heck, the people are charging these days. It can't the market just doesn't support that.

O

I mean you're in a commuter location, more than anything, definitely something to need in town too.

A

There are ways to enhance architecture with very simple I mean they're, affordable projects.

A

That have very simple entryways that look like small porches and even just something.

A

Like that can make a big difference, but that's not in the regulations so.

A

Any other comments.

A

Andrew you are allowed to speak and by the way, jane and everybody um until there's a.

A

Motion before us, anybody can speak. So I'm sorry if that people don't understand that.

A

A

Any other questions for the applicant, any of them, the entire team, and you said you had somebody.

A

Unzoomed, I assume they didn't want to say anything uh he's a member of the llc. I don't know if he.

O

Wants to speak, or not none of the other. You guys want you want to say anything norm. He does okay.

G

Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. I just want to mention that those.

G

Pitches, don't necessarily convey uh the quality of workmanship that will be displayed. We will.

E

Be using a lot of um high-end quality materials on the exterior buildings, all the units will be.

G

Built with uh we'll be using granite, countertops we'll be using high quality, vinyl planking for the.

G

Floors and they will be built commensurate with what you see in the higher quality properties.

G

In the area, so I I don't want that to be the the visual that you guys are leaving.

G

With tonight, because, certainly we, my partners and I have uh have experience in this regard-.

G

And I'm sure you'll be you'll, be quite impressed with the finished product. When we're done. um We.

Q

Were very impressed with what the tac committee uh brought to bear and some of the changes that were.

Q

Made in the in the construction, as well as the as the landscaping and we'll make sure that, uh based.

E

On our our ability to perform that that will be in and tied into the uh the architecture as well.

C

Could you just give us your name, I'm sorry, norman lee, I'm one of the partners.

A

Thank you andrew sir. Oh wait and if it's in the plan forgive me, but is there a way to better.

J

Illuminate some of these crosswalks and curvatures that you alluded to um just just knowing some of.

J

The larger developments in town- it's nice when there is not a lot of traffic and there's only.

J

One person driving through you certainly want to have that anticipation of okay. There is.

J

Somebody walking a dog or somebody walking through snow, whatever it may be just again.

J

Maybe just to illuminate parts of the darker areas of the development. Thank you very much.

G

um Steph, can we go to the lighting plan? It's the real bright multi-colored, one.

O

O

The only real dark spot that I see is right in here, which is right down the middle. uh All the.

O

Sidewalks themselves would be illuminated. I can look at adding another light in there andrew. I.

O

Think that's easy if you want to add that as a condition, I have absolutely no problem with that.

O

Maybe something with a little more throw because everything's, either building mounted here or a.

O

Pole here that's just sort of going out horizontally and not throwing light out.

O

It's definitely something we can do.

A

Would you prefer a light or reflectors on the pavement.

O

um Reflectors, probably won't last the plow's going to take them out after at least probably.

O

A few years, I think, more light is probably the way to do it from from the front. So it's focusing.

O

On the person themselves, so the person is not a shadow, so we can definitely take a look at that.

A

While you're there on attack comments, number 11 I it may be, I just missed it, but it says.

A

Sewer mains to be installed one foot above sewer, I think they meant water mains.

A

Yeah, that was a typo okay yep, that was a type typo.

O

While we're on it and conditions of approval, they do reference uh easement plans being recorded in.

O

This particular case we were, let me, go to the site again, I'm sorry, it's all over the.

O

Place there's drainage going right now onto the abutting property.

O

Existing power also comes from the abundant property. We were looking to to recreate.

O

Those situations um tax suggested that we formalize those easements, even though we do.

O

Have prescriptive rights and the budding owners from new jersey? And that's all I'm going to say.

O

So it's cheaper to do it the other way, so we do not need any easements. Aside from the.

O

Sidewalk easements along the front, which would be in the 12 foot, dot reserve strip.

O

Okay, we're also giving a drain adjustment to the tortilla parcel because they do.

O

Drain onto us, thank you. You've been through the other proposed conditions and no issues.

A

um 2.10 is a little extreme. In my opinion, it says the applicant shall agree to pay for.

O

The services of an oversight engineer to be selected by the city to monitor.

O

Monitor the construction of improvements within the public rights away and on site.

O

Usually on site water and sewers, what is what gets inspected, not the full shebang. So I think that.

O

That could be narrowed down. I see rey's nodding his head. That's what we see on other projects.

O

In fact, the project just before you had the same condition, so this one for some reason is different.

O

You don't want a resident engineer out there for paving on a private parking lot. This doesn't make.

O

Any sense, water and sewer- absolutely they connect to the city systems and stormwater usually is.

O

Is myself and my firm and we do certify at the end of the project that it was bill per plan.

A

Sounds reasonable? Yes,.

N

Improvements with the sidewalk uh right now, the sidewalk has a little bit in the right.

O

Way that was showing we don't know what the outcome of our discussions with dot.

O

Are going to be so, there might be some there, um but tacted asked that the 12-foot reserve strip.

O

Along route, 1 would be dedicated to the city as a sidewalk easement.

O

But it's just water and sewer right now in terms of actual physical work, just the city or the city.

A

And the state well, water and sewer are part of the municipality. You know the dedicated the strip.

O

The strip the d.o.t they may ask for it. So again I got the comments about four hours before the.

O

Meeting I'm like okay comments, we have them and I didn't really absorb all of them. So.

A

Any other questions for the applicant.

A

Okay, all right! Thank you. Thank you very much now open this to the public. um Anybody wish.

A

To speak, too, for against this application. First round speakers, nice anybody here, anybody on zoom.

A

Nobody, I assume, second round or third round, I'm just going to combine them.

A

Because nobody wants to speak tonight. Albuquerque is closed.

A

What's the board's pleasure.

D

Mr chairman, I'll make a motion that we vote to find that the application meets the requirements of section 10.5 b 43.10 in the grant, a conditional lease per development site.

D

Subject to the requirements and conditions of the site plan review approval. Second,.

D

So to speak on my motion, I you know, I think uh this, um like the application.

D

uh Preceding this one meets the surroundings, I it's um yes, it is all residential.

D

I think uh I think the fact that um you know it matches the character of the neighborhood. It.

D

It's got the the bocce court in there. It's got. You know some some public amenities in that front.

D

But uh yeah, I think it I think it meets the master plan, and one thing I would like to add is the fact.

D

That uh they're reusing the buildings on this site. So to me that you know they may not be the best.

D

Looking buildings or anything like that, but that's a huge amount of material. That's not going to a.

D

Landfill now that's a little outside the cup, but you know I that that counts as something.

D

um And reviewing this this application, as far as you know, the green standards and other things so.

D

A

Any other comments.

A

You ready for a vote.

A

All those in favor of the motion, aye aye, opposed motion carries unanimously.

D

Mr chairman, I'll make emotionally vote to grant site plan approval the following stipulations:.

D

2.1 through 2.12, um with the added.

D

Edit to 2.10 to change it from monitor the construction of improvements to monitor the.

D

Public utility improvements, and I would also like to add, stipulation 2.13 so, which would.

D

Actually change the two stipulation subsequent, but that additional 2.13 would be the applicant.

D

Add an addition or additional lighting on the western sidewalk, I guess, or the interior.

D

Side, western um and then obviously the last two conditions um in the memo.

C

Second, can I add to that, or at least requested that can we also add a stipulation that they.

C

Would actually reach out to coast with 75 more units that much farther away that maybe they.

C

Could at least make a request to see if they'd be interested in extending another stop with now.

C

It's going to be 125 in a general area, that's on the other side of the road, so just that they at.

C

Least, put in the request yep that works, and that would be something reported to staff. I assume yeah.

A

Right, I um add a stipulation that motion to add a terminal manhole at the end of the round.

C

Yeah I forgot about that. One.

G

Okay, are we good any other 215s 216s.

A

Motion, second, all those in favor, hi, hi, all right opposed motion carries unanimously.

O

Thank you very much guys have a good evening. Thank you.

A

Oh, my number's changed new.

G

Business, if I'm well, I'm following one thing and I think some of us are following us: I've got design.

A

Review public hearing on port harbor um yeah, we are under, we finished four by postponement and.

C

Section five design review uh letter a is where we're at that is correct.

A

That's where I was, we have a public hearing, design review for the request of port harbor land.

A

Llc as owner the property to russell street along russell street in deer street, requesting.

A

Design review for mixed use, project consisting of office, retail, commercial and residential uses.

A

And one four-story and two five-story buildings: the site is located between russell street deer.

A

Street maplewood avenue and the railroad corridor properties are located on assessor map 124 lot, 12.

A

Map 118 lot 28 119 lot, 4 map 125 lot 21 and lie within the character district cd5.

A

I think we have a regular all regular board members sitting on this application.

A

Mr crema, vice president, you are here to present. Mr chairman, appreciate that introduction.

G

Mr chairman, I'm sorry same as before. I've known the developers and the partners for a.

H

Very long time no business relationships just like that on the record. Thank you.

L

Thank you um for the record good evening. I'm I'm patrick crimmins with time bond we're the site.

L

Civil engineer on the project also here with me this evening, is bob huelig from halverson.

L

Time bond studio um representing the applicant sitting in the audience is ryan, plummer and.

L

Attorney lions is also here as well representing the applicant, as mr chairman read, into the.

L

Record we're here this evening to present to you folks, for uh preliminary design review.

L

uh Phase we're excited to be here this evening. This project's been in process now for several.

L

Months we met with the board back in december for a conceptual consultation. I recognized that.

L

A number of you folks were not at that meeting, so we're very much looking forward to hearing your.

L

Feedback this evening on on the site plans, we are also currently in the hdc process.

L

We're excited that the way that that is going, it seems to be very collaborative. It's moving.

L

Forward very well we're excited about the way the design is turning out and we also met with.

L

The technical advisory committee last month for work session, so the next step here is to.

L

Meet with you, folks get some preliminary design feedback based on the plans that we've provided.

L

So that we can take those back and and hopefully submit a formal application here in the near.

L

Future and take it through the process, so the site itself, I'm sure you're, all very familiar with it.

L

Often referred to as the sheridan parking lot bound by the.

L

The train tracks maplewood avenue dear street russell street next slide. Please.

L

So the proposed project, uh the site itself, actually it it's the sheridan parking lot itself.

L

Is three lots? um The project will remain three lots. It will require a lot line. Adjustment for.

L

Those lines um you'll see that we have the lines situated now between in the centers between the.

L

Three buildings: there is also a parcel of land up along market street. That is part of this project.

L

Map one 119 lot: four, it's a vacant lot I'll describe that a little bit.

L

More in detail, as we get into the presentation.

L

So just working a way across the site down at the corner of maplewood avenue and russell street.

L

We are proposing what is a four-story office building a 13, 000 square foot footprint.

L

Surrounding the the the building itself will be.

L

You know improved wide sidewalks, both along maplewood avenue and along russell street.

L

We're proposing some community space plaza area between these two buildings, which.

L

Both myself and bob will get into a little more detail further in the presentation along the rear.

L

Of this building and along the length of all these buildings, we will have a an access drive.

L

That will provide access for both parking under building 2, which is the center building.

L

Fire access and and we're actually looking at opportunities, maybe to use that as community.

L

Space as well, based on some feedback that we had received at the work session.

L

I'll be curious to hear from you folks on that uh when we get into discussion.

L

Moving further down, you know, uh russ uh dear excuse me again the improved wide sidewalks.

L

This is building what we're referring to is building number two. It's a mixed use, building.

L

Consisting of a commercial on the first floor as required and above would be 72.

L

Units at this point we're anticipating that this will be a condominium building.

L

The parking for the site will all be housed within this building. There will be a first story.

L

Parking deck, which will be accessed from the driveway off of russell street here into the.

L

Building which not shown here will be depicted in further plans. What you see here really is going.

L

To be a second story, kind of amenity deck, that's covering that parking, um also parking will be in.

L

The basement of the building the basement building parking will be accessed from this back drive down.

L

At the lower grade along the front of the site, we're going to be doing some significant upgrades.

L

To russell street, we'll be teeing off that intersection, as you can see here, which is it will.

L

Create improved traffic flow, um bicycle pedestrian improvements and, and what it's going to do is.

L

By teeing, this off is create this large plaza, like area here open space area which creates a.

L

Tremendous opportunity to do something unique and special in the front of that building.

L

Bob can speak to that a little bit more with some of the ideas that we're looking at here.

L

Moving up down excuse me along uh russell street. We get to building three.

L

uh This is a again a mixed use: building commercial on the first floor.

L

Five stories with 44 units above it's obviously it's a unique shape, given the site.

L

Again, 44 units rental and and improvements all along russell street parking.

L

Bicycle pedestrian, roadway improvements.

L

As we get up along these wide sidewalks, we'll get up to the intersection of green street further.

L

Roadway improvements again, this project is going to be doing some significant public improvement.

L

Both in the right of way and from the public realm standpoint, so what we'll be doing here.

L

Is again we'll be teeing off this intersection at green street for traffic safety improvements.

L

And then, as you work, your way further down uh russell street you'll get to the intersection of.

L

Russell and market uh this is that that vacant piece of land that I was spoken about, that is.

L

Also part of the project that will be improved, the intention there would be to create that as.

L

Community space, what was depicted here was what was previously contemplated on the prior project.

L

Years ago we, you know, we spoke with staff early in the process to understand if this was still.

L

A desire to have a roundabout at this location um that they indicated as such, and also that was.

L

Reflected in the tack work session discussion as well, so what we're showing here obviously is.

L

Is a roundabout improvement at the intersection of excuse me, market and russell.

G

L

So that's kind of an overview of the site or the proposed site um quickly, I'll I'll.

L

Discuss the parking, um obviously it's like I said it's the sheridan parking lot right.

L

So there is a shared parking situation already that already exists on the site.

L

And will do so within uh the proposed development itself. We've included some very preliminary.

L

Parking calculations, obviously, as we're working through the building design with htc the unit.

L

Mix isn't quite nailed down yet so we've been conservative, we you know, we looked at basically.

L

The highest parking count required for a unit to calculate these requirements. We've looked at.

L

The existing hotel requirement for the sheridan parking lot and we've also included uh what are.

L

Deeded spaces that are for the condos, both in the sheridan building and along deer street.

L

So those are those spaces need to be held in perpetuity to meet the easement requirements. That.

L

Exist today you know what we're proposing here is. You know, there's 389 spaces that are required.

L

There's 154 spaces within the sheridan parking areas. So what we'd be required to do to meet that.

L

Requirement is 235 proposed spaces on this site, uh we're looking at on the first floor, deck again.

L

We haven't nailed it down because the building's shifting a little bit but the the parking on the.

L

Deck first floor, deck itself is probably going to be in the 80 to 100 parking space count and.

L

Then the basement, obviously the footprint is larger. I should have mentioned as we.

L

Were discussing building two, we are seeking a conditional use permit for building two.

L

We're building one, which is the office, is thirteen thousand square feet building three, which is also.

L

Thirteen thousand square feet, but building two in the middle is: where is a forty thousand square.

L

Foot footprint, which requires a conditional use, permit it's allowed in the central district five.

L

With certain requirements that we are looking to adhere to, you know what you'll need to do.

L

One is provide the liner building along the first floor to screen that that parking, so we're.

L

Proposing to do so, I think, there's approximately ten thousand square feet of commercial space.

L

Along you know, russell and deer street here that will screen this back parking area. The.

L

Parking needs to make up over 50 percent of the first floor, which it does.

L

I think there was several other requirements, but the gist of it is is that we're.

L

We're looking to adhere to those requirements and we will be seeking a conditional use permit.

L

From this board to allow for the 40 000 square foot footprint, so with that back to the parking.

L

Parking on the first deck parking in the basement, studying that parking.

L

We're required to have, I mentioned 389 spaces, approximately 80, to 100 on the first floor and the.

L

Balance will be done in the the basement of the larger footprint. You know certainly we're hoping.

L

That the way it lays out that we can actually just provide the parking required if we do need.

L

Additional spaces in the basement we'll look at parking technologies such as lift.

L

Systems potential tandems in order to meet those requirements, but we're confident with the space.

L

That we have within that footprint that we can achieve the parking requirement for this project.

L

So what I'll do now is just quickly? I just want to turn it over to attorney alliance.

L

To speak a little bit more about the parking and then I'll come back up quickly, go through some of the stormwater utilities and then get into the community space.

Q

Thank you patrick good evening. Everyone for the record. My name is attorney john lyons. I represent.

Q

Port harbor land llc, and I only want to address one issue in related to the parking with you.

Q

There's a condominium across the street located at the sheridan lot called market wharf. One.

Q

I see attorney larry gormley is here who represents that condominium.

Q

For the record, by warranty deed dated november 30th, 1987 recorded at book 2719 page 1968.

Q

Market wharf 1 has a parking easement for 58 parking spaces on the 2 russell street lot.

Q

What is important to know is the easement specifically provides those parking spaces.

Q

May be temporarily located during the construction of, and I quote, a parking garage office building.

Q

Or other improvement, there are other provisions related to this easement and the deed as well.

Q

However, I don't want to leave any question and on the record, my client agrees.

Q

All the easement terms, set out in the warranty deed are fully enforceable.

Q

In fact, on page c, 102 of my clients application, we have specifically.

Q

Provided for these 58 parking spaces called for in the easement with market wharf, one.

Q

Additionally, at the present time, my client is currently allowing the unit owners of market.

Q

Wharf one to have permissive and temporary use of the underground parking garage at the sheridan lot.

Q

This permissive use will continue throughout the construction process.

Q

I would add that, as part of my client's development, the market wharf one unit.

Q

Owners will go from having parking spaces on a surface lot to covered garage spaces.

Q

There is a back story, though I don't know what attorney gormley might address with.

Q

You, but there is a back story that I want to address with you.

Q

Prior to my client purchasing the two russell street lot and the sheridan lot. There were.

Q

Negotiations between the prior owner and market wharf, one to move those 58 parking spaces across.

Q

The street and into the underground parking garage, however, there is no dispute. This agreement.

Q

Was never formalized in any written agreement prior to my client's purchase of the property.

Q

It appears market wharf. One may intend to use my client's development of the two russell street lot.

Q

As leverage to force my client to accept the prior agreement, that was never formalized in any writing.

Q

Prior to my client's purchase of the property, I'm confident you won't allow yourselves to be.

Q

Enrolled in that effort, my client agrees to all of the terms of the written part parking.

Q

Easement agrees they're fully enforceable. This is provided for in my client's application. My client.

Q

Will continue to allow the permissive temporary use of the sheridan underground parking garage.

Q

If market wharf one has the right to force my client to accept any agreement with a prior owner.

Q

That was never formalized in any written agreement. That is an issue to be decided by the courts.

Q

uh Of course, the irony is: if market warfare one has the right, which I can't imagine that they do.

Q

And my client has to accept a prior agreement with the prior owner. That was never formalized.

Q

In any writing that has nothing to do with the development as market wharf. One.

Q

uh Has would have parking across the street? I appreciate you allowing me to address.

Q

This issue with you so that it doesn't become a distraction. Thank you very much.

L

All right, thank you, steph. Can you go to the next slide? Please.

L

So here's a preliminary grading and drainage plan. Obviously the site is almost entirely impervious.

L

Surface so peak runoff rates is not really a concern of ours. We're confident that we'll.

L

Probably be under the current open space that exists on the site.

L

What we're looking to do is mimic drainage flow patterns, which is what is reflected here.

L

um Time with the roof drain tie-ins and where the various flows go now, the idea would be that we are.

L

Going to have to treat this runoff now where it is not currently treated. um So it's likely in this.

L

At this time, some place in this location, you know where this mantle sits and similarly up here we're.

L

Going to be looking at a storm water treatment unit that meets the requirements of the city and.

L

The alteration of terrain permit to provide the appropriate storm water treatment for this site.

L

During work session, there was some discussion about some outflow improvements, uh outfall.

L

Improvements that are being done. We live down at the north mill pond. So what dpw's just asked.

L

That we work with them through the attack process to make sure that we're sending the appropriate.

L

Stormwater in the right direction at the right place, and so that we're not overburdening the.

L

Outfall and the improvements that are being done- and we agree to do so um next slide stuff, so this.

L

Is a schematic utility plan? um There are a number of easements that do cross the site, uh two of them.

L

Virtually are have been abandoned. The there is a sewer line that, once across the site that has.

L

Been diverted and no longer does, there's also a gas line that had once crossed the site, which.

L

No longer does with the recent improvements that have been done up along green street and crossing.

L

The train tracks as well, there will need to be ever source electric upgrades within the vicinity.

L

Of the neighborhood, that's not news to us. In fact, those upgrades are going to be required as part of.

L

The projects that had been previously approved by this board over on reigns and green street as well.

L

So what is reflected here is those improvements that have.

L

Been previously coordinated with eversource in terms of relocating, adding duck bank.

L

Manholes, vaults, etc next slide stuff. So that was a quick, quick overview on the stormwater.

L

And the utilities kind of getting back into the the permits themselves, the the project.

L

Is going to require obviously site plan review approval from you folks, I mentioned that we're.

L

Going to be adjusting the the lot lines, so it will require a lot line. Revision plan.

L

And then there are several conditional use permits that will be required.

L

As part of this project as well, we touched on the parking already, but there will be a conditional.

L

Use parking for shared parking on a separate lot that would be required. It's already in existing.

L

Condition, but certainly as as we develop the site we'll have to work through that cup.

L

In addition, I mentioned we're going to need the cup for the.

L

40 000 square foot footprint on the center building building 2.

L

We're also going to be looking at required conditional use permits for the use of off-site.

L

Community space, so what I'll do is just kind of quickly? I can go into the community space stuff if.

L

You want to go to the next slides first, um so what I, what I did just do is um you know I mentioned.

L

That this is going through the htc process, uh so it's evolving, but I did want to just put a couple.

L

Graphics in here just to give the board some context of scale size mass. What what's being.

L

Worked on what you know what it looks like at more of a 3d level, so here's here's just a bird's.

L

Eye view kind of looking at the fronts of the buildings um steph in the next one, and then this.

L

Is kind of looking at the back and you you can see that the public realm areas, the the breaks between.

L

The buildings the view corridors that are being created, uh you know the second story, amenity deck.

L

Above the garage here, some of the wide sidewalks and even that connector along the back, that will.

L

Provide access to the basement level garage fire access and, as I mentioned, we'll touch on right now,.

L

Potentially, hopefully, potentially community space steph next slide, please. So I included this graphic.

L

In the package, I know there's a lot going on on it, um but what we're just trying to do here.

L

Is is get across the point that there's a lot of opportunity out here for public realm improvement.

L

We're really looking for feedback from you. Folks, that's one of the reasons we've shown so much of.

L

This is we're trying to take away from the board. You know what what you would like to see in these.

L

Community spaces, what may not be accepted so quickly, just kind of looking at those on building.

L

One, while it is going to stay a four-story building, we are looking for that additional 10.

L

10 feet in height, obviously that what that does is it creates a higher florida floor.

L

More desirable for an office building build out so we'd be proposing to provide community space.

L

On that build for that site, 20 percent would be required for that building.

L

And what we did was we identified um a few community space areas. Obviously.

L

The obvious one is the the wide sidewalk community space, which is the dark green.

L

And then, between the two buildings building one the office building and the mixed use, building two.

L

uh We proposed to to build a community space plaza, which bob will discuss a.

L

Little more uh some of the ideas that we had and feedback that we're looking for from you folks.

L

And then again, on the back, I mentioned that um you know the access drive. This was brought up as a.

L

Potential idea during work session by staff, and so we wanted to add this to the plan and have some.

L

Discussion with you folks get feedback on that. One of the recommendations was maybe looking at.

L

Using that access way as a a community space type area, where it kind of serves a dual purpose,.

L

uh Where it's it also where it can have vehicles drive on it to access the garage but it'd be a.

L

Pedestrian type uh area- you know very similar, I guess to if you wanna chestnut street- would be.

L

A good example of that out in front of the music hall, where it's kind of a combined.

L

You know nicely paved area, you know decorative, but also vehicles can use it. So.

L

It was an idea that was thrown out by staff. We liked the idea we wanted to represent it.

L

On the graphic as a potential and we're looking forward to hearing feedback from you folks on that.

L

Moving over to building two again, I'm the plaza between the two buildings we'd.

L

Be seeking community space for that uh the wide sidewalk community space.

L

To to bring the wide sidewalks all the way out to from the building.

L

Out to deer and russell that would also be that would only be included on our parcel, and you can.

L

See, there's a very large swath of yellow on that planet. The purpose of showing that is.

L

This project is doing a significant amount of public realm improvement along the right-of-way.

L

That can't be counted as community space, but they are making very significantly making a.

L

Very significant investment to improving the roadway network and the pedestrian access.

L

Along these streets, particularly, you can see that the opportunity that presents itself for that area.

L

uh In front of building two, which bob will touch along a little bit in his presentation,.

L

Again, with with this site requiring uh this would require 30 community space.

L

For that conditional use permit to get that 40 000 square foot.

L

Footprint, so what we've looked at is several options. I mentioned the ones on the site already.

L

Additionally, we'd be looking at adding what would be that.

L

Off-Site community space area up top here, this land is also controlled by the applicant with.

L

The intent that would be made into somewhat of more of a passive park type space really.

L

A continuation of the improvements that have already been done along market street and just.

L

Kind of bringing you down into town into sight into the site, it could get you access up into the.

L

North end neighborhood, which is uh slated for more development. Obviously the north mill pond trail if.

L

If and when that moves forward, so we're looking to include that as community space and.

L

Another one potential idea that had been raised, which again I'm looking for feedback.

L

From you folks on this um was there is a piece of land over here. Along reigns.

L

Excuse me, along uh vaughn street, uh the intersection of bonna maplewood when you walk by.

L

It it's just a brick sidewalk, rather underwhelming as you. um So what you know was mentioned was if.

L

We could improve that you know. Potentially we use that as community space counting towards.

L

You know one of these buildings. Obviously it would be off-site that is city land, but.

L

That's an idea that was raised that we thought was a good one and it could tie very nicely.

L

With you know, the improvement that is being done here uh around particularly around building one.

L

Now, obviously, we have that that connection that exists in town all the way from the african burial.

L

Ground that you know, the idea of the vision was that we could bring that all the way out to the.

L

North end, someday, you know you go and use a call to 3s art space. It's pretty neat little corridor.

L

The the railroad tracks obviously create an impediment to provide that.

L

Direct connection, but the idea would be you know you could come all the way down.

L

Across from port walk and then access what would be that kind of pedestrian drive and then come up.

L

Around to this nice community space and continue on into that neighborhood, so that was just a.

L

Thought for some community space as well moving up to building three similar theme. You know wide.

L

Sidewalk, looking at that pedestrian alley again in the back the other opportunity we wanted to.

L

Bounce off the board, because it is technically creating a wide sidewalk, a much wider sidewalk.

L

Is this area in pink? Obviously, this is the sheridan land controlled by.

L

The applicant and what the applicant is actually going to be doing is is deeding.

L

Some land here in the corner in order to allow for those roadway improvements to occur and.

L

What we were doing the thought there was because this is creating such a wide sidewalk over here.

L

You know using that land swap area to count that towards community space, so we'd be curious to get.

L

Feedback from you, folks, on that um there are a number of other there's several other land swaps.

L

That need to occur as part of this project again more public contribution that this pub.

L

Project is going to need to do in order to construct the roundabout here. We are.

L

We would be giving up this sliver of land here at the corner of uh market and russell and again.

L

Coming into this kind of land area and creating right-of-way here, that was also.

L

Discussed at the work session as well that you know any improvements that may be done to.

L

That community space would likely have to wait until after the construction of the roundabout.

L

It makes sense it wouldn't make sense to go and do them tear them all out. Come back.

L

But that was something that was brought up attack, so um that's just some food for thought, for you.

L

Guys, I know that's a lot, but you know we're we're trying to look at opportunities here to provide.

L

Some meaningful public realm community space and look forward to uh hearing your feedback.

L

On it, what I'm going to do now, though, is I'm going to turn it over to bob, and um you know.

L

What he's focused on in the submittals package that you have is just some scaling comparisons.

L

And some precedent imagery of some of the the more significant public realm areas. So you can.

L

Walk through that with you, and then we look forward to hearing your feedback. Thank you.

R

Thank you, patrick um for the record bob eulig, with halverson tynebond studio.

R

Landscape architect and as patrick indicated, hopefully this will be an enjoyable session.

R

We're going to go through a couple, different design, ideas for three of the community spaces.

R

And we've done a couple different alternatives, so we want to get your reactions as to what.

R

You see as pros and cons and so forth. So hopefully this will be an interactive feedback.

R

Next slide, please so in in kind of looking at um at the open space on the site, so the.

R

Site is the area up in green at the corner of deer and russell street.

R

We wanted to look at the larger context within downtown portsmouth, and so what you're seeing is.

R

There's a series of other open spaces that we've identified commercial alley. You know 2500 square.

R

Feet, that's kind of on a smaller side, both in terms of its length and its width uh market square.

R

In front of um the tuscan market is at about 4 500 square feet, which again is a bit more comparable.

R

In terms of the size of the space that we're talking about as that's what we're calling the.

R

Muse so, um and then I'll look at kind of this. What what patrick talked about, which is this kind of.

R

Extended urban quarter that starts at the african burial ground heads up chestnut street in front.

R

Of the music hall continues in the form of vaughn mall continues across in front of port walk place.

R

And then it doesn't necessarily terminate, but it continues in the form of what we're.

R

Calling the muse that carries across deer street between buildings, one and two and so.

R

We want to think about how all these contribute to kind of the different open spaces that occur.

R

In portsmouth, both as linear experiences and then as experiences of which places that people can.

R

Occupy and stop and enjoy and so forth, and so, if you could go to the next slide, please.

R

So again, I'm going to be talking um in kind of in sequence about what we call the muse.

R

Community space between buildings, one and two, the corner community space uh at the corner of deer.

R

And russell streets, and then this. uh What we're referring to is north community park, which is.

R

Up closer to market street and I'm going to go through a series of scale comparisons. So it's.

R

Kind of like we can experience okay, what is the size of each of these spaces together? Next, please.

R

um First, we're going to look at the again the muse.

R

These are some of the graphics. I think that you've, seen previously of what that space looks.

R

Like in terms of the gap between the building and the width of it, clearly, it's long and narrow.

R

On the right hand, side, it shows you kind of those dimensions next slide. Please.

R

This graphic may be a little bit confusing. This is attempting to show you.

R

Okay, what kind of other spaces is this space? Look like you know what kind of space is it.

R

How how kind of wide is it such that is it inviting or is it really narrow and cramped.

R

um I know the last image architecturally looked like it was a little narrow and cramped.

R

If you look at this image, this is an image that is in the seaport in boston.

R

On the left hand, side and there's a lot going on graphically here. If you look at the.

R

Red dash line, trust me, the intent is to show you that there's there's an open space there. That's.

R

About eight thousand square feet that uh that is in the and the red dash line shows you the.

R

Edge of the buildings uh and the open space in the middle on the right hand, side is a graphics. That's.

R

To show you uh the dashed line, the dashed area is that other site, but it's it's just a little bit.

R

Wider than the proposed site that we're showing and the graphic on the right shows you kind of at.

R

The ground plane, what is in brown, is kind of site wood site elements that you could sit on. Green is.

R

Planted areas and the rest is kind of open, paved area. So again, the point is this is a fairly.

R

Similar size space, both in length and width, to what we're talking about so next image. Please.

R

All that's to say is: this is kind of the scale of space that we're talking about. You've got vertical.

R

Buildings on either side in our space that we're talking about you, don't have something at the end.

R

um But just generally kind of look and feel the scale of the space. In this instance there's.

R

Objects within the space that are that are um sculptural. We thought that that was interesting to.

R

Think about relative to you know, there's a fairly linear progression as you go from the african.

R

African burial ground to this site is there something that wants to be within this space so.

R

That it's not just pass through. Maybe it has some character to it. So this image on the right hand,.

R

Side is is with the site with outside furniture in it on the left-hand side, it's with it occupied and.

R

It has the benefit of being kind of the four court of trillium brewing company in boston. Next image.

R

Please another site that will be more familiar to you. That's of the similar scale. Comparison.

R

Again is uh vaughn maul right adjacent to the worthwhile, so, on the left hand, side is the aerial.

R

On the left of that aerial, where the red dash line is, is the warf lot, so you can kind of see again.

R

The scale of the muse that we're talking about and it's open space bounded by the worst lot is very.

R

Similar in nature, on the right hand, side is more that ground plane view and then next slide. Please.

R

And kind of what you all know pretty well, but just gives you a sense again of scale and width.

R

Of dimension that we're talking about for the muse that we're looking at next slide and then.

R

So I just wanted to introduce you the muse, we'll go back there in a minute as to designs.

R

Then, on the corner, I wanted to show you again the size and scale of the space at the corner of.

R

Community space that we're going to be talking about next slide, please and then just wanted to.

R

Show you yet another scale comparison of an open space. That's in cambridge massachusetts that we're.

R

Talking really kind of about the corner condition, and this is about showing you, you know what could.

R

Occur if that's a public destination open space, so remember this kind of overall ground plane.

R

On the left, the picture and, on the right hand, side shows you kind of where the the dark line is where.

R

The building edge is so. The real focus is on kind of the nose of the open space next image. Please.

R

So again not the whole way back to the building, but about coming out to.

R

The edge of the circle on the left hand, side and thinking about the idea that.

R

This open space sticks out in a similar way in a corner. It's going to have continued circulation.

R

Along the edge of the streetscape, and the idea is, what do we do with that area inside of it? Is it.

R

Public open space on the inside is it surrounded with trees to give you separation from the street.

R

Some of those options- and we thought again this just was kind of not that we want to redo this.

R

uh Here, but this gives you a sense of the possibilities, so next.

R

And another image of of uh similar in character and size, not quite as big.

R

Actually, but it's the area again in front of the tuscan market over at market square.

R

uh Again, the ground plane on the left and then that overlaid over our site plan so that it's.

R

Probably 33 percent bigger, if you wrap the corner next image, please again showing you.

R

That space, that you all know and is pretty beloved in portsmouth right, so we're gonna.

R

With the next slide, we'll go back into looking at the overall site plan, so this is just to give.

R

You a sense of looking at those areas overall, the muse the corner, condition.

R

And then we'll get into the north park a bit later, we're going to can now zoom in to the muse.

R

With two different options as to how that what the look and feel of that could be next slide, please.

R

Oh yeah, so this is one you're going to see, is a bit more organic in nature and.

R

The other you're going to see is a little bit more rectilinear in nature, and I think it's.

R

Going to be helpful to see the enlargements to to focus in on that. So next slide. Please.

R

All right so here we are um standing kind of on deer street. Looking into the open space.

R

The way we've thought about the muse is again that it's it's a continual progression, beginning.

R

At the african burial, ground and kind of making its way through here, and so this first approach.

R

Kind of keeps the open space and the circulation down the middle and creates a little bit of a.

R

Buffer on either edge between the buildings so that the pedestrian circulations is central.

R

It's the edges are softened with planting and there's the potential for kind of a commercial.

R

Retail or some kind of spill out here at the corner, which is right at the entryway to the muse.

R

Again, as you look like at deer street, sorry about that, as you look at deer street, the idea is we're.

R

Going to be introducing additional street trees along deer street, we're hoping to put those in.

R

Raised planters with with ground cover at the ground level again, so that's very lush.

R

uh Ideal tree planting environment. If you look at the images on the right hand, side there's.

R

Our kind of precedence to give you a sense as to you know the kind of planting that's going to be.

R

On the edges, the seeding elements in the upper right hand corner down in the bottom right hand,.

R

Corner the idea that we'll use forms to create smaller spaces within that overall linear space.

R

And then one notion that I brought up before was this idea of you know: do we have a little fun.

R

With this space, does it have some sculptural kind of elements like you see, on the right hand, side.

R

In the middle, where it's light elements that kind of capture your eye from a distance and.

R

Draw you into the space next slide, please! So now we're gonna! This is the same view. We're gonna, give.

R

You a little bit of three-dimensionality, so you get a look and feel to the space and be mindful.

R

This isn't intended to be a physical design. This is kind of an idea that shows you a series of.

R

Scale of spaces, so now we're going to go down to the ground level and take a look next image. Please.

R

So the idea of looking through the space on the left hand, side is kind of this spill out.

R

Seating area, you see the planting and the kind of curvature to the to the seating areas at the.

R

At the ground level and the idea of kind of potentially vertical elements that could be.

R

Light elements could be sculpture that kind of carry your eye through the space.

R

And again, pedestrian circulation in this instance is more down the middle and you can sit along the.

R

Edges next image, please, so this is the second alternative. This alternative is um is different.

R

In that you circulate down the edges and the kind of tree grove that we've proposed in.

R

This instance is more down the middle, so when you look at it, you kind of see, trees, overhead, there's.

R

More access to the building, edges and so forth, again kind of the images that we're looking at.

R

On the right hand, side are more indicative of the character tall, shade trees that you walk beneath.

R

More angular geometries to the seating areas down the center and then there's opportunities.

R

For loose sight, furniture to either side of that next slide, please! This is a bit of an overhead.

R

View of that, so you can kind of appreciate how the trees make their way through the pedestrians.

R

Circulate to either side along the building edges and then you could sit on.

R

Fixed elements down the middle now next slide for kind of at the ground level. Experience.

R

So again, I think that gives you a sense everything kind of down the middle seat, height.

R

Circulation around the edges next slide. Please.

R

So that's on the left is the more curvilinear approach to it and the right hand. Side is a bit.

R

More orthogonal circulation down the middle and circulation at the edges, so that's kind.

R

Of something to think about relative to the muse, then we're going to now we're going to go to the.

R

Community park at the corner- and we can come back to these guys if you want to.

R

Talk about them afterwards, so the first image is this idea of creating a space.

R

Up closer to the building and putting green kind of around the perimeter.

R

The slides, on the right hand, side are indicative of kind of what is the character of that space.

R

Around the edge of the circle for the image on the center right could be a seating bench so.

R

That it's welcoming at the center the upper right hand corner, is just to show you what that sense of.

R

Enclosure would be like, and then the bottom right hand corner is the opportunity that there could.

R

Be sculpture or something iconic at the corner since it's so visible when you come around both.

R

Deer street and russell street, where now that it's on this prominent corner.

R

And again, the idea of wrapping street trees that combine with larger planted areas at the center.

R

uh Provide a more lush kind of environment in what is a fairly hard streetscape area. Currently next.

Q

Slide please- and this is kind of an overhead view- of what the look and feel and the scale of that.

R

Space is like, as patrick mentioned, it's fairly generous with the building setback and now the.

R

Curb lines being all pulled out next slide. Please- and this is kind of down at the street level,.

R

Next slide- and this is a different alternative approach to the plaza where the idea is, we create.

R

A stronger tree canopy right at the corner. We keep it open. The overall sidewalk and streetscape.

R

Open so that there's a continuous, broader paved area and perhaps something that's more.

R

Set off in terms of how the paving treatment is at the building entry and at the corner.

R

So again, some images on the right hand, side that represent what that tree. Canopy would be like.

R

Potential sculptural element and the streetscape experience next slide. Please- and this is an.

R

Overhead that gives you a sense of what the scale of that space would look like when we create a.

R

Larger open space on the center, perhaps that could be a place where you know different activities are.

R

Our programs, since it's a scale that could accommodate a variety of scale of spaces,.

R

Next slide: please down for ground level! Here's what I found! ah Sorry phone's talking to me.

R

um Next image, please- and this is the two kind of images of those two alternatives.

R

On the same page and then I'm just gonna go through the north part, please so again the.

R

Upper space that patrick talked about adjacent to where the market street intersection.

R

Is where it's pretty much overgrown in that area now would take a bit of work to regrade that and.

R

To remove some of that invasives next slide, please this is kind of it at the ground level.

R

Next slide, please, so we did two different approaches to this: one, which is more.

R

Keeping the sidewalk along the edge of the street edge for those that just want to be.

R

You know kind of making their way quickly along and then we there's another approach where.

R

We've introduced a more sinuous path that may be a bit more meandering.

R

Or if you want to get off and get away from the traffic with a seating area at the corner,.

R

That may be a node, that's more complementary to what's happening in the building.

R

Across the street and the images on the right-hand side are indicative of kind of.

R

Site furnishings and planting that you may see in that particular site and then the next image.

R

Shows you an alternative which is a bit more simple and straightforward, where there's a pathway.

R

Kind of along the roadways edge adjacent to the roundabout, and then it peels away from the.

R

Roadway so that you've got a green buffer between you and traffic and then a simple seating, node.

R

Just a little bit away from the road there adjacent to where the new building is.

R

Next slide, please and that's the two of those together.

R

And I think that's that covers the three spaces.

R

And their alternatives.

A

Thank you. Thank you. I don't want to break now and at 10 o'clock, but.

A

I was wondering if the board would like a short break.

A

Why don't we have a 10-minute break? Thank you we'll come back, mr chair. I have a hopefully a.

G

Just a very minor comment: I hope this won't make the whole meeting void, but.

G

Were we supposed to do attendance at the beginning.

A

No, I don't think it's required. Okay, not just it would be part of the minutes when the minutes.

C

Come out as to who was in attendance all right, I just didn't know if planning board did attendance.

C

Just city council does roll call. Okay, I think I did say the whole board was.

A

Here for the some of the applications.

A

Okay, we are back live hotel. um Did you have patrick any more of your team.

A

Okay, we have uh questions for the applicant.

D

Mr clark, all right chairman, thank you, I guess I'll kick it off.

D

You know I I I go back to uh comments. I made um last time that I I think, um there's a couple.

D

Issues with the community space I'll start with the you know, kind of the muse uh one. One thing.

D

That I I have a little trouble envisioning in here is the um sunlight getting down into the space.

D

It's uh it's. You know you have the buildings right there, um it's generally running well, it's kind of.

D

Northwest southwest but sunlight getting down into that space. I thought it was interesting that.

D

You guys used the trillium space in the seaport district because um I actually was able to go to.

D

That space uh this past summer and the reason I think that that space works well, is because the.

D

Building on the south side is generally um smaller in height than all the other buildings around. It.

D

So you get a lot more sunlight coming in. um That building is also a really historical building.

D

um And I think they did a really good job of uh you know, enhancing that with the large windows.

D

And there's a market in there too, and so there's a lot of activity between that building.

D

And the people in the space, while the people in the space might be there for the brewery generally.

D

That market helps enhance that entire space. um So you know with this this building building one.

D

Being proposed office building, I don't know you know what the thoughts are on trying to.

D

Trying to activate that building, um I know you have the liner building. I hope that liner.

D

Continues all the way around into this this public space, because I really think that you have to have.

D

um And while it's you know somewhat, it's it's outside the you know this board to some degree, you.

D

Know you really got to make sure that the what's happening in that space is activating your your.

D

Community space, you know the last thing I think anybody on the board wants is what is happening.

D

Or what happened at the corner of uh right across the corner from this at deer in maplewood, where.

D

You have essentially a dead facade that you know has no activation at all with the sidewalk. None.

D

um So I think um those are kind of some of the comments on the uh on the on the muse. um I think.

D

uh The other the other space at the corner there, um you know, I guess I I kind of go back to how.

D

The buildings are being used, you know, the reason market square is what it is is because there's.

D

A cafe and restaurants right there if that was a nine to five office building or you know, a hotel.

D

With um you know the curtains up all the time, then market square wouldn't be what it is. You know I.

D

Think um you know another example of something since you have such a big intersection and you're.

D

Changing it around, maybe something even as far as davis square in somerville, you know where it's.

D

You have activation all the way around that um you know. There's this restaurants and everything.

D

That really just pour out into that area, and that's that's why it works. It's not. You know to me.

D

It's not the seating, it's not the landscaping. It's it's! It's! How the people um get into those spaces.

D

Now the space um at the far end, you know that that might be more of a transient space or.

D

Something like that, I do. I do wonder with that area. I know the bedrock is extremely high on the.

D

Other corner- and I would imagine that bedrock- I think green street's- essentially a bedrock cut so.

D

If it's all bedrock, how are we going to? How are you going to activate that space.

D

um You know without flattening it or you know how. How can we get flow through that space um with.

D

With that being said, um I guess so those are those are just some of my my overall comments. You know.

D

About uh the public space, actually one more thing I'll mention on that. You know the the sidewalks.

D

Out there are already fairly wide. Fortunately, deer street you know, gets a lot of sunlight coming in.

D

um So maybe shifting the buildings a little bit, you know, maybe the sidewalk doesn't need to be.

D

That wide in that area, um and so that we can build upon some of these other areas, I mean, like I said,.

D

uh Back in um in december, you know I I would love to see some activation at.

D

On deer street, I think uh the community space the pocket park. I think that's a good idea.

D

Unfortunately, it's on the other side of the railroad tracks, but um to me that intersection.

D

You know if you're a pedestrian there's nothing in that intersection. That's inviting really.

D

At all, so um I would hate to have that corner also be uninviting. You know, I think, particularly if you.

D

Want people to come into the space while they might come down port walk and come in they're.

D

Also going to be coming down, maplewood and coming in, so how do we? How do we build upon that.

D

The only I guess another just just question I had, and I I believe you.

D

Touched upon it- and I I apologize um does- was the applicant intending.

D

To pay for the roundabout at the end of at the end of russell there.

L

uh No we're not intending to pay for the entire roundabout. um We would be providing the design.

L

Level of design that was similar to what was done um as part of the last project, and you know.

L

What gets contributed towards that will get worked out through the attack process? Okay,.

D

I'll leave it for that, and okay with that now, gentlemen. So um we'll start with andrew to.

J

Dovetail off of what corey has mentioned. I think the community space will be super critical here.

J

On top of having good sunlight, I think it's also important to note that that's a pretty.

J

Windy area, so we don't want to create a wind tunnel that nobody's going to feel welcomed into.

J

But this is something I have quite a bit of experience in it's it's a place, making type.

J

Of scenario where you want to create these collisions and a little bit of community.

J

Community uh gathering, and so I think, if we can create within the building code,.

J

That we have in portsmouth retail and restaurant functionality within those ground floor spaces.

J

Similar to what uh dos amigos was previously doing on port rock plays, um then that's a really great.

J

Aspect and and I think, engaging the community that way. uh Trillium is obviously a great example, but.

J

That's a dedicated restaurant space, so if you just have a hotel, it doesn't necessarily contribute.

J

It is going to be the first impression on maplewood ave among the new office building. There.

J

It is going to be that first impression for both corners. It's going to bookend this.

J

The deer street and russell street corridor, so if we can think to incorporate local arts sculptures.

J

I mean you mentioned 3s art space like the music hall. All of those are very hyper local.

J

Type of attributes, so maybe incorporating some of that- I don't know if we can write that into.

J

The approval, but nonetheless it would be great to see all of that, and the last thing is just.

J

We want to think about reprieve for people, so if it is an office building and they come downstairs.

J

To eat lunch outside excellent: where are they going to sit? How is that going to look and what.

J

Type of engagement are you going to generate from all of that? So that's how I perceive this and.

J

We just want to make sure that whatever it is, it can be used 12 months a year or for the most part.

A

uh Jane had her hand up yeah along those same lines.

E

We do have one comment from a mr glenn trefeven, a letter that was written in.

E

And again he's talking about that larger community space and kind of asking. Can it be a place for.

E

People to gather can it be made into something cozy and personable. Can there be part? You know.

E

Benches, um in a sense, a park bench situation so that people have a chance to sit there and.

E

Also, look at the historic context that they're sitting in um and I think, with regard to the mew.

E

I I really don't see you know, I don't think it's comparable to um commerce commercial way.

E

Where you've got like two-story buildings and minimal, the shadows are playing all day long.

E

But not at the level that a four foot, a four-story and a five-story building are going to be you're.

E

Going to be in shadow 90 of the time in that in that spot, I think I think one thing that you.

E

Might consider is if it really is an extension from the african burial ground to extend the story.

E

Of history of the port of the river of our history, which could be due, could be done. um I question.

E

How the trees that you picture are? Actually I don't know what kind of tree is going to grow.

E

There without very much sunlight, continuous sunlight, and it does need to be all four seasons.

E

The thought is that it be a plaza or even like a mini market square that it that it have some.

E

Resonance with these other places in town and mark that area as being an area worthy.

E

Of checking out by a pedestrian or a bicyclist, I mean we should be providing bicycle racks.

E

And letting people you know explore the city on bicycle as well.

G

Jim I like to follow up on the roundabout question.

G

You said right off that uh your client will not be paying for that.

G

And some type of arrangement will be made with the city through the tax process. Is that accurate.

L

Yeah, typically how the process works. Is you know? A lot of this is going to be driven by the.

L

Traffic study, which we're currently performing right now, we have the counts done last week.

L

And then what gets looked at is the impact that the project itself is going to place.

L

On the roadway networks and that you know percentage impact, oftentimes becomes that.

L

Percent of cost sharing for improvements so that that's a typical process for the site plan.

L

Review process, I guess that's what I was trying to describe so the roundabout will cost x amount of.

G

Dollars, correct and you'll contribute the amount that extra traffic will generate from your project.

G

To that cost, that's typically how it's done. We work through that process and tack. I can't tell.

L

You how it's going to end up, but yes, that's in the past. That's how we've worked through that. Okay.

G

um I I am very interested in the shadows that this building will create at uh different times of year,.

G

And I think a shadow study be really helpful to to understand how the buildings will create shadows.

G

On the surrounding area, so if I would like to see if it's possible a shadow study for four seasons,.

G

uh Say at 10 a.m and 3 p.m, and that at the building heights, with the extra story and.

G

In the building heights, with the not the extra story, that's all right and.

G

My last question has to do with timing with the hdc. I take it uh this these green.

G

Space ideas are going to be presented to them. Also, yes, that's correct. um We've already presented in a.

L

Higher level, obviously, you know largely the focus is on the architecture, but certainly these spaces.

L

Impact that um so what we've been doing is coordinating with sga and they've been.

L

Bringing that actually into their model so it'll be incorporated as part of their documents that.

L

They present all right and uh do you anticipate having htc approval before you bring it.

G

Back to the planning board, uh you know given the way that this process, I I can't say that.

L

Definitively, obviously right, but given the way that the process is moving and the way that we.

L

Plan this out, uh that's the hope. We've already been before the hcc four times we're submitting.

L

Either this week or next week for the next work session meeting for a fifth meeting already.

L

um You know, certainly the tax review process is going to take some time to get through.

L

So I don't we'll be it'll, be a few months before we're back before you folks. I think we're ahead in.

L

The htc process itself all right. If that's your goal, I think that's our at least my goal also.

G

Greg with respect to the northwest end of the muse- and you know the whole northern.

H

Bound or northwestern boundary of your of your parcel has that active rail line along there.

H

I mean it is what it is: it's not going to go away, but I've taken and you tried to tie the.

H

The music hall to 3s art space- you drew the corridor this- that the other thing and kind.

H

Of pointed at 3s art space, I've walked from that parking lot to 3slr space because it.

H

Was a good place to park and the railroad track is just dangerous. It's ridiculously dangerous.

H

And you've got two residential buildings and a commercial building there have. You talked to my.

H

Good luck with it, but talking to pan am or the railways and figure out a way to make a pedestrian.

H

Crossing across those tracks, because it's it's dangerous even in broad daylight, let alone at.

H

Night going over there, we have not approached them yet um creating a natural path. I understand now.

H

You got to stumble over these horribly maintained, railroad tracks. No, I understood we have not. um You.

L

Know understanding in past projects that I've had to deal with this. That's why I said that the way.

H

Yeah, it's not easy to deal with they're, not easy to deal with the requirements that will be set.

L

Probably won't even work in that setting because you're going to need to build a pedestrian bridge.

L

That would bring you up 20 feet over the rail and then back down for safety reasons. Well, they played.

L

That game down the road- but I mean I've, seen the literally the plastic, pedestrian crossings.

A

That fit between right in the middle of um near beaver, creek yeah and I'm gonna walk across an.

H

Active rail line, it's a point very well taken and I'm happy to reach out and see where we can get.

L

With that, the other opportunity I mentioned, you know if we can perhaps that we create some sort.

L

Of barrier as you walk to the end of the muse, so that it is requiring you to take that left and.

L

Kind of come around up to where the road is, I mean exactly: crossings on either end shot. The end of.

L

The muse right so get you know, kind of force. The pedestrians go that way, get back out to maple wood.

L

And then loop around and then just the fun yeah you know. I appreciate that. Thank you.

C

I was letting everybody else buy this one first.

C

I loved everything mr clark said about the community space. What I'd like to add to some of it.

C

Is my concern about the corner where the front of the condo building is so deer street and russell.

C

Street that sort of corner piece: that's exactly where the entrance to the condo building you're.

C

Showing it to be- and it will be an not activated area if it's just a front to a residential.

C

Building it's going to feel more like that's their park, their entrance to the building so.

C

If you're going to truly make that community space, you need to make it look very inviting and open to.

C

The public- and I don't know, if that's you know like a retaining wall that basically makes the.

C

Entrance sort of behind it, so that then the park in front of it really looks like it's for the.

C

Open to the public, um but I think that would be really important to truly count.

C

That, as community space, um I I agree with everything that's been said about the the.

C

Other quarter off of vaughn street the muse, as you call it it it's it's, it's gonna need a lot.

C

Of work- and I I don't know really what the answer is there, but I definitely think that.

C

That also needs to not feel like it's just for the office building or just for the people who.

C

Live in the condo, it needs to actually be feel like to the public that this is open to you. We.

C

I find that we've discovered. We have a sort of lot of public spaces for the public, but the.

C

Public doesn't even know they're there or how to use them. So whatever could be inviting enough to.

C

Make them realize that that is for just any joe schmoe walking down the street is invited. It's.

C

Not specific to to those specific spots, so I think that's important. um Could you give us a little bit.

C

More information about this second story, deck that looks like it has grass and trees on it.

C

That's over supposedly the first story parking, that's in the backside along the railroad tracks.

L

uh Other than it's envisioned to be a a you know, open deck area, amenity space for the condo.

L

Building, um wouldn't it be actually going to have grass growing on it yeah they? They are absolute.

L

They are looking at. um You know the floor depths that would allow for planting. You know obviously.

L

It's still very early in the building design process, but we actually were discussing that as.

L

Early as today, in terms of I was just curious like what the plan is, because I'm thinking it's hard to.

C

Con conceptualize like what that's actually going to look like and be, and obviously yeah it's on the.

C

Side where the railroad track is so, how enjoyable is that going to be for the people living there.

C

Is that the best place for it? I guess when you start thinking about it yeah I understood it's.

L

Important to us to make that a very successful place too, and welcoming so yeah appreciate the.

L

Comment, I think that's all I have for now. Everyone else has said everything else. I want to say.

E

I I just wanted to go back on the community space diagram to the pink.

E

Area where you are proposing a transfer of land to the city- and I think you said in.

E

Your presentation that it would that that would count as community space. I guess.

E

My question is: what are the pros and cons of that like.

E

How would the city benefit from that little piece of land and if we, if it isn't transferred what.

E

Would it become if the land's not transferred? We can't complete the intersection improvements.

L

That are shown on the plan. We can't t up that intersection for russell street to deer street.

L

Create the safety improvements, the the plaza area that we've all been talking about in front.

L

Of building two so that that land is would be swapped in order to allow for that to happen,.

B

Peter I was, I was going to add in further enhance that that is a very difficult intersection right.

B

There so this this is actually a welcome traffic enhancement because you get there and.

B

And it's wide open space and it's dangerous sure. Yes, absolutely yes,.

J

Andrew just to both what uh councilor, moreau and greg have said, um whenever you have an.

J

Office or a condo building, my presumption is that these folks have never walked through this site.

J

And they don't know and whether or not it's the sheridan parking lot or it's a condo building.

J

There has to be way finding signs and some incorporation of uh determining where they.

J

Should go and direction thereafter so, whether it's the the railroad tracks that are pointing them.

J

Towards maple wood or maybe circling circumventing them out and around towards the intersection of.

J

Brussels and deer street to make that connection between 3ds and the rest of downtown successful.

J

I think it'll take quite a bit of pushing people in one direction and once you decide where that.

J

Is just like really commit to it and say: here's how we're going to make this work and and whether.

J

It's the greenway of all downtown. It just takes a very cultivated effort to make that very cohesive.

D

Corey. Thank you, mr chairman, ah just just one last um question. So all the only the bonuses.

D

You're looking to get all those bonuses via community space, no workforce on this site.

D

Correct, that's correct! Yes, okay, so you're, not everything will be market rate no workforce.

D

Housing on this one yeah, we looked at it, it just doesn't really work on this site. Okay,.

E

So, just for clarification, this pink and back to the pink space, and forgive me if there's something.

E

That I'm missing, but what material will that be? Is that brick is it? What is it? Is it it's not a green.

E

Space right part of it is actually road. You know it it. What it is is it's allowing to create that.

L

Wide sidewalk on the other side of the street and to align that intersection the rest of it.

L

Will be newly constructed sidewalk, oh so it'll just be an expanded sidewalk is that it coming.

E

Out in that that kind of rounder, it's actually what it's. Actually it's dieting out that corner.

L

So it's carving it out and then reconstructing the sidewalk along the sheraton and then what.

L

That does is it creates the opportunity across the street for the larger closet area, thanks.

A

Well, I'd like to thank you for a very nice uh proposal and I think you guys.

A

Know a lot of work on it. I think there's there's some opportunities here. um The.

A

Repairing the damage caused by russell street is a huge, huge, huge move and you know making.

A

That into a t, intersection, I think, is a tremendous benefit for the city long term, especially uh right.

A

Now I walk through there all the time. I don't walk across there very much it's it's leak and.

A

Horrible and you know it promotes speeding and all sorts of horrible things.

A

That said, I I wonder if you would consider- and I don't want to complicate your application, but I.

A

Know curved buildings, curves and I know you've shown some straight line segments, but I wonder.

A

About with the giant yellow space, if you actually occupied a little bit of that space with building.

A

And took some of that building square footage over to your muse.

A

And on the deer street bottom of it, if you basically opened up the bottom more of like.

A

An inverted tee, so the bot, the bottom of the buildings stepped. So you could create.

A

Seating in there and also get some shielding from the wind. Because, as.

A

Andrew mentioned, there's a significant wind factor to be considered here: okay, but you can also create.

A

A receiving space coming as people are walking north up through port, walk and.

A

All the other places as they're heading to this area, as opposed to just coming to a.

A

A corridor uh which will be you know you can dress it up, but it's still going to be a corridor.

A

With some pretty tall buildings on either side of it, if you broke it up at the ground level,.

A

You could create seating, you could create lots of landscape opportunities so, and these aren't.

A

Either or I think you've got opportunities, maybe to do both. I thought about the idea of making.

A

Some of that giant, yellow space building to try to give you back square footage that you might lose.

A

Because you made the muse larger yeah and I appreciate the comments great and I actually don't.

L

Actually, disagree but that land right there that's in yellow now is city land. I know so well.

A

That was what I was getting to not complicating your your application, but I would encourage, I mean.

A

It would be to the city's benefit to have all of this happen. It would also be the city's benefit in.

A

My opinion to have a building that more squared up to the corner and didn't leave the giant um that.

A

Street russell street is not a historic street that that came in at the same time as one-way.

A

Streets and other bad things happen to portsmouth and other downtowns, where it's it's not a walkable.

A

Alignment by any bunny stretch, so this is repair. This is urban repair you're proposing to do here.

A

And it would also provide you possibly the opportunity to get actual credit.

A

For land you could get from the city that you could use for community space building, whatever.

A

I mean it's in the public interest, in my opinion, okay, so thank you.

A

How do you feel about the roundabout? Do you like the roundabout? I.

L

I'm indifferent to it. I guess it it really is. It must have been study at one point in time.

L

To show that it was warranted on the prior project, I I'm not. I don't know enough about the traffic.

L

Generation to speak to that, um I do think it is a nice gateway entry into the town. It could be.

L

Something very beautiful, as you're coming in that you have this nice landscaped area as you get to.

L

That intersection of market street um the traffic study will look at that obviously too, from a flow.

L

Standpoint trip generation standpoint as well. I know the way it's detailed, uh there's, not much of.

A

Deflection for two of the approaches, so you know that's something that might might change and just.

A

So I understand the sheraton: property is included in the application purely for shared parking.

A

And perhaps a little bit for the roundabout is that the roundabout, the land swap for the uh t.

L

At russell street as well- yes, that that is the intent, nothing to do with the buildings, nothing.

A

To do with this space, no just the parking, it's correct, the reservation for the private.

A

Landowners who have their deeded rights and the other things you explained- that's correct.

A

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

A

Anybody else have any.

A

uh Open up the public hearing, um anybody want to speak too far against this application.

S

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, my name is larry gormley from hopeful phoenix gourmet.

S

And roberts, and as mr lyons represented earlier, I represent the market wharf condominium association.

S

Which is comprised of 29 property owners who have a deeded right to park on this site.

S

That is, they have a property interest in this site and our concern has been a troublesome.

S

History to to date, I've learned more about the parking plans for this site tonight than.

S

I have in two years of interactions with their representatives seeking information. I'm heartened.

S

To hear that they concede that we have a property right. However, this has been a somewhat tortured.

S

Well, tortured is, is too strong a word. It has been a frustrating experience because we've got no information.

S

As john said, our deed can be moved other other, where otherwise, on the site. It's.

S

Currently deeded on russell street, but it was moved to the garage where it is currently.

S

And it was moved because of the prior developers, interest in developing this watch and contrary to.

S

The repeated representations that there were no written undertakings over the course of two years.

S

We negotiated an approximately 15 page document that addressed all of the parties.

S

Rights and obligations as related to this parking arrangement, and we agreed that we had an agreement.

S

Unfortunately, they sold before they inked the agreement.

S

So I spent a year calling a year plus calling ocean property saying. Are we going to sign.

S

This can we close on this. Finally, more than a year later, I get a letter from their attorney.

S

Or an email from their attorney saying, you've asked if we're going to sign this. No one word.

S

The next interaction was one of our component owners unbeknownst to the association.

S

Listed his condo for sale, the owner's council reached out immediately said: you've got no.

S

Right to do that and we're going to evict you if anything like this happens, my response was.

S

To where there's been a representation that they're allowing us to stay in this garage.

S

As though some favor is being given the reality, is they have nowhere else? To put us, that's why we had.

S

The deal with the prior owner, there is nowhere else on that site that they can legally move us.

S

But in response to my question, where are you going to move us.

S

Nothing in response to my repeated requests: we need to collaborate on this. Nothing.

S

I've heard tonight that there are opportunities, perhaps to park on the deck or in the other garage.

S

It would seem to me as another property, some with a property interest in this site. It would.

S

Be incumbent on a good faith developer to say we don't know exactly where we're going. To put you.

S

But we're going to accommodate you either on this deck or in this garage it may change, but that is.

S

Our intention attorney attorney gormley we've got rules on time. It's three minutes the first. Oh I'm.

A

Sorry, no you're! Okay, you can you you're welcome to speak the second round, which is ten minutes.

A

I I can wrap this up. I I uh well. Your time is up. Okay, I just have to see if somebody.

S

Else needs to sure no problem. Thank you any other first round speakers. Thank you.

K

I only need I actually only made ten, but they I want actually.

K

Good evening my name is elizabeth bratter property owner of 159 mcdonough street.

K

For those of you, who've heard me speak before I'm a big proponent of environmentally friendly.

K

Development and a lot less impervious service throughout the city, so don't be shocked by what.

K

I'm going to propose today please take a minute to look at the maps. That's in front of you.

K

Proposed at 2, russell street and deer street is a required fire road. That's going to be 20 feet wide.

K

Which will lead from maplewood ave to green street? This is shown on the map presented as a as a green.

K

Line with red cross hacks notice that there's a plain green line and it represents the off.

K

Street park parts of the north mill pond trail. These additions to the north mill pond trail are.

K

Required to any dif for any development along the north mill pond, so they can start all the.

K

Way at bartlett street and go continue all the way to wherever anybody is along. The north mill pond.

K

At green street, the proposed rotary is colored in blue, but it will likely include lot 119.4.

K

According to the original plans which were put out and that's colored in yellow it's hard to tell.

K

If the entire wedge will be needed for that rotary because lot 119.3 is actually owned by 53 green.

K

Street and there is no indication as to whether it will be part of the rotary as well, based on.

K

What's been planned, what's been presented, so my question is: is why not continue the fire road.

K

All the way down to market street and have it have a curb separation. This would allow cyclists.

K

A direct access to market street and it would also allow for a safe loop through the north end.

K

The section I'm talking about is the green line with the black cross hex. Imagine a family could.

K

Start riding their bikes at bartlett street cross maplewood ave, where the proposed bike crossing is.

K

Ride all around the north end and head back to bartlett street. That would be.

K

A nice ride for any cyclist who's, looking for a short ride on in a beautiful location,.

K

For a longer ride, they could start in islington street, where it runs parallel to islington street.

K

Or even further back and still make a loop as they go through the north end.

K

The two russell street development is putting in ground floor and first floor parking.

K

There will be asphalt and concrete readily available to extend the existing road.

K

Please ask them to include this additional section for a bike: pedestrian path to connect the north.

K

Mill pond trail by market street and approve it part of this design plan. I also want to make.

K

You aware of the orange things on that on that map, which are crossings they're supposed to put.

K

Crosswalks there on green street and green street goes across the railroad tracks. I haven't been.

K

On those railroad tracks, because I usually cross over the railroad tracks, sorry, I've lived next to.

K

Him too long, um but that is allowed there. Thank you. Thank you any other first round speakers.

A

Anybody on zoom.

A

Second round speakers, 10 minutes.

S

My only other comments are uh as an entity, and these are again 29 property owners.

S

uh As people that have an interest in this property, we suggest that they.

S

Deserve more than being treated as a resented step child and being told that.

S

We'll get you when we get to you, we can these people can't sell their condos because they.

S

Don't know where they're parking- or it certainly complicates how they sell them.

S

And all it requires to resolve, it is communication and instead we're getting monosyllabic answers.

S

Threats or simply silence- and it's not a reasonable way to conduct business, so we put.

S

That out there simply for your consideration so that these people are not ignored and this process.

S

Doesn't get too far down the pike before these property owners are dealt with. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Any other second-round speakers.

K

Elizabeth browder 159 mcdonald street- I'm sorry, I didn't realize they were going to.

K

Do this whole presentation about the different um things that they had so.

K

um In regards to the view corridors, I agree about the fact that many of you mentioned.

K

The light the lack of light there, it would be helpful if they just made them generally wider.

K

How they got there, but they just need to be wider. It would be nice if the second view quarter.

K

Lined up with the hill so that you could actually sit in that quarter and look at.

K

The old houses that are up on the hill that have been preserved there.

K

A way to attract people into that into those little.

K

View quarters, or whatever you want to call them, they could put a splash park in there.

K

Which would be they'd have to put it closer to the other end by the railroad tracks because of the.

K

Sunlight or lack thereof, and they could use some of the water from that at the end of the.

K

Day, I think those get switched out and they could use that to water. Some of the plants.

K

The north park is is an illusion. It's going to be part of that thing and they could also move.

K

Those buildings, I'm not a big proponent of large sidewalks, I think they're a waste in most cases.

K

They could move those buildings closer to deer street which would open up the.

K

Railroad track side, they could add plantings all along the railroad tracks in the 10-foot.

K

Setback that's there and that would make that whole end of that building. Look a lot nicer.

K

Especially since, on the second floor, they're putting something in for the condos, but really.

K

There's no green actual green space for the people who live in this city. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Any other second round speakers.

A

Third round speakers still tunnel buddy on zoom and close the public hearing.

A

It's the board's pleasure.

A

The board understand what a vote here will do.

C

Correct all right, we, I would make a motion that we vote to find the design review process is complete.

C

Second, and just so that everyone understands that means that they are now locked into after having.

C

A public hearing to the zoning as it sits now, even if my future committee tries to change it.

A

For at least 12 months.

A

Any discussion.

A

I think we heard a lot of good comments tonight, so I think the applicant was taking notes.

A

All those in favor hi, hi hi, all of those opposed you having anonymous approval. Thank you.

A

Next, we have a preliminary conceptual consultation request by julia tebow, revocable trust property at.

A

405 south street, requesting a preliminary conceptual consultation for subdivision.

A

Of the existing parcel of 0.52 acres or 22 750 square feet into two lots.

A

Properties on assessors map 111 lot 18 is located in general resident a district.

A

I think we have a proponent thank you, mr chairman, members of the planning board, john shagnan, from.

N

Ambit engineering and we just stepped out but patrick nyston from saa builders, is also in.

N

Attendance tonight, thank you for the opportunity to present this plan to you for some uh feedback.

N

If we could put it on the board, the property is 405 south street and.

N

The first plan in the set is a subdivision plan. The property is kind of unique in that it is.

N

There we go so south street is here: the property runs very long and about 70 feet wide back.

N

It has another point of access, though, which is mcnabb cord, so the property has sort of a unique.

N

Access in this, the second rear, half of it from another public way, the property is in a zone that.

N

Requires 7, 500 square feet of lot area and the property in total is 22 000 square feet. So it's a.

N

Large lot for the zone for the zoning is 7 500. It's a it's a 20.

N

2000 square foot lot, so the plan shows subdividing the lot by creating a new line.

N

Roughly here and splitting the lot almost down the middle in.

N

Area so there'd be two lots. The lot on south street would still remain as it is.

N

Currently, there's a dwelling unit there with a driveway up to a garage and a shed.

N

And then we would create a lot in the back that would be accessed from mcnab court next slide.

N

So in general, the law topography is sloping from the southeast to the northwest. So, as you come.

N

Onto the property from south street, it rises up a bit. Then after you get past the garage.

N

The property drops off as seen by these contours here, and it acts it's down to the level of.

N

Mcnabb court, as you get towards the back, mcnabb court comes off of lincoln. It then.

N

Takes a left turn and there's kind of like a little pocket neighborhood of four homes there.

N

That are fronting on to the court and they're in close proximity to the court. They all have.

N

Front porches and steps currently the city will plow mcnabb court and the property line.

N

Here ends with a chain-link fence that exists and the city sort of tries to push the snow, but.

N

They can only go so far, so it does have an impact on the last two homes in mcnabb court. Next slide.

N

So we put together a kind of a concept plan to show what might be done on this lot. The.

N

Idea is to create another opportunity for a single family home by subdividing the watt.

N

It meets all the criteria except for frontage. The frontage on mcnab court is only 30 feet.

N

So it's access, not frontage. 100 feet is required, so we would need a variance, but I.

N

Think it provides an opportunity to put another structure, much needed housing, and it will also.

N

As we work through the process, we'll be going to the technical advisory committee and we'll be.

N

Talking about the possibility of that access drive to the proposed house providing an opportunity.

N

Through some sort of an easement for the street to be cleared entirely so that there isn't going to.

N

Be an interruption or a large snow bank at the end that impacts actually the people on mcnab court.

N

The house we looked at placing it sort of next to in the middle sort of to make it round out.

N

The court, but that wouldn't allow us to do what we're thinking about doing with the ability to.

N

Continue the street a little bit onto the property, plow, the snow etc. So the house is.

N

Is shown on the south east portion of the lot? As I said, the topography drops off so there's an area.

N

Down here, that would be open space, but it'll also be there to help assist with stormwater runoff and.

N

Open space in that regard, I guess that's pretty much all we have to say about this.

N

But we're looking for your feedback before we take the next step, which would be to.

N

Go to the zoning board and look for the variants to create the laws. uh One quick.

A

Technical point I've touched on the 10 o'clock thing. I didn't ask for a vote. We need a vote to.

A

Go past 10 o'clock so moved. Second, all those in favor aye questions for the applicant.

G

Mr chair, yes uh yeah, I was um took a stroll out there the other weekend and ended up talking to.

G

A person on lincoln ave and um the lot is unique. Like you said, it's it's very long and narrow.

G

And it it uniformly slopes down from south street to lincoln almost like a ski slope and.

G

The person I spoke with was very concerned about the drainage and the impervious, and will this.

G

Development put more water onto their property, so that's one thing. I would ask that you look.

G

Carefully at is that at the bottom there you know where the low spot is, if somehow uh you.

G

Could do some considerations for them so that they don't hurt the receiving end more drainage.

N

Yes, absolutely we've done some test pits out there and uh what we're going to look to do is to.

N

Try to infiltrate the roof runoff from the structure. The property is sort of a low.

N

Point in the neighborhood- I don't know if it was the person that's directly behind it, but.

N

Some of those lots do drain on to this lot, so we don't want to impact that.

N

To do anything there that would cause a problem for them. So we're aware of that.

E

I just have a question which is so. The proposed house will be like 1500 something feet square feet.

E

Is? Is that in keeping with the sizes of the other houses here, or is it bigger than the other houses.

N

So it's in keeping with the house that is currently on the property. It's it's a little.

N

Bit bigger, as you can see, from the site plan, it's a little bit bigger than the homes that are.

N

Directly on mcnab court, but those are certainly on lots that are a lot smaller and so are limited by.

N

Coverage requirements.

N

The builder has recently done some work in the neighborhood and in the packet is the.

N

Architectural plan, this would be a well done. Custom house with.

N

Quality building it would be an addition to the neighborhood.

A

Are you proposing to violate the setback on the back? Is that yes, so the we'll be asking for relief.

N

To um a setback requirement for the structure and uh the reason that we're heading that way.

N

If you look at the plan in detail, there's the body of the house and then the garage.

N

Bumps back a little bit, and that is to provide this space that I was talking about, so we can.

N

Provide an easement for that access for the city to plow.

N

The snow and not create a snow dam there, so it is a small area there that.

N

Would be the subject of a variance request, this portion of the garage, but it's it's needed to.

N

Sort of step back and allow more space, so the city would plow snow in front of your garage.

N

We would be talking a tackle advisory, but we believe that the you could plow the snow.

N

Off to the side, okay, so all right seems like the garage could slide.

A

A couple of feet, but you can cover that with cva yep.

A

Anything else for the comments.

A

I think we're passed through preliminary discussion.

C

We just end. Thank you. Thank you for your time, we'll see you after we go to the zoning board.

G

A

I have 230 commerce way our next.

A

230 commerce, away llc at 230 commerce way preliminary conceptual consultation for.

A

Construction of a two-story structure with 12 000 square feet of office space and a veterinary.

A

Clinic properties on assessors map, 216 lot, 1-5 and within the office research district.

A

Who's here to speak for this application hey uh good evening, uh my name is neil hanson. I'm.

H

With tyne bond uh we're the civil engineer on the project, uh so, as you just read into the record, the.

H

Proposed projects located at 230 commerce way we're here for conceptual consultation due to.

H

The fact that this project would add a second primary structure to the lot.

H

Which requires us to go through this this process with you tonight, um the proposed project.

H

uh Stuff, can you pull up the same condition.

H

Yeah, I think it's the third sheet. That's the existing conditions plan.

H

So while she's doing that so for this project, we will need to get a safe plan review. Permit.

H

The project will also require a special exception from the zba the first floor.

H

Use proposed for this will be a veterinary use, which is uh needs a special exception.

H

That will be heard next week at the zoning board.

H

And then the second story of this two-story building will just be a general office use.

H

We also need uh so the existing site is uh office, building up along commerce way and.

H

Then, behind that building um is a large surface parking lot, uh there's a portion of that service.

H

Parking lot, that is within the existing wetland buffer of the wetland, that's between ports of.

H

Portsmouth boulevard market street and the back of market basket, there's about three thousand.

H

Square feet of pavement from that parking lot within that buffer, so we will need a.

H

Conditional use permit for the buffer impact uh as part of this project give back one more sheet.

H

So uh yeah so 230 230 commerce way. This is that large surface parking area and then this darker.

H

Hatched area is the existing paved parking that is uh within that 100 foot, wetland buffer.

H

uh And, as I said, it's about 3000 square feet, so we will need a conditional use permit for that.

H

And we have met with conservation commission for work session.

H

Related to that- and we also previously have attacked for a work session.

H

um And then the other thing to note about the existing condition is currently this entire.

H

Surface parking lot uh well, any storm water runoff from it will sheet flow and it kind.

H

Of concentrates on this corner and then just goes right out into the wetland uh currently untreated.

H

So if you go to the next sheet please so this is the proposed site plan. So, as I mentioned this.

H

Would be the two-story proposed office building, it's got about a 12 500 square foot footprint.

H

As I mentioned first floor use would be the veterinary use and then second floor, general.

H

Office we'd be proposing reconfiguring the parking in this area and as part of that, we would be.

H

Pulling most of the existing pavement out of the buffer, as well as doing some buffer restoration.

H

Work along the edge of the new paved area between the existing tree line and the parking lot.

H

As part of this, we're also proposing to add a new driveway out directly to portsmouth boulevard.

H

That will allow any any of the office users or anyone dropping off or picking up.

H

Pets from the vet direct access to the rear of this lot without having to travel a pretty.

H

Substantial distance through a parking lot to get all the way to the back of the site here,.

H

That will require a waiver from from you folks, for uh having more than one driveway on a single lot.

H

And then go one more page, so elsa's part of this is, and as I mentioned, the existing condition.

H

There's there's no current stormwater treatment on the site, so this plan would uh propose.

H

Stormwater treatments, it would capture, detain as necessary, treat any stormwater runoff before.

H

Discharging it back to the wetlands in the rear. Here we have done some geotechnical work.

H

um And the the ledge out there is very shallow, so at this time we don't anticipate.

H

That we'll be able to use any sort of surface uh treatment practices like a rain garden or.

H

Gravel wetland just due to the the shallow ground, um shallow ledge, excuse me and then.

H

Water gas sewer utilities all connecting mostly out to forza boulevard.

H

There's a sewer line running through the site, so that's where the sewer will tie in and then dpw.

H

Had some comments for us about where we'll be connecting our our water mains for this project,.

H

That is the quick run through and I'll leave it at that. Given the hour any comments, yes,.

C

Is it all possible to shift the building over and get completely out of the buffer, uh so potentially.

H

um So when we developed this concept plan, we hadn't had an updated survey at this point,.

H

So that has I believe that was done earlier this week, and so when we get into the detailed.

H

Design, we will certainly look to minimize or completely eliminate any payment from the buffer.

H

To the to the best, we can obviously we're going to need to meet certain parking requirements.

H

um With these added uses on the site, but yes certainly we'll we'll minimize okay, thank you.

G

Yes, sir, I have a question about that: access off of.

G

Portion boulevard yep could uh could the plan go back up? Please.

H

uh Cyclone c102.

G

There's a landscape median currently right down the middle of the boulevard and you'll.

G

Be removing sections of that? Yes, yeah, we'll be uh yeah, so that part of that.

H

Meeting will get removed and there'll be a turning lane added there and.

G

That's a it's a treat, I think, there's some cherry trees along that. I believe that it's.

H

Planted, I I don't know the species. Okay and again I, as you probably well away our.

G

Portsmouth's, pretty fixated on safer streets and fewer access points means a safer street.

G

So I'm just trying to hopefully be able to justify or convince me that this access is really needed.

G

Again, knowing that portsmouth is focused on safe streets and.

G

An extra access just makes it less safe. So that's that's where I'm thinking about it right now,.

A

Okay nose for no response jen. I just had a comment about the sea of parking spaces after.

E

Sea of parking spaces, it's nice that you're putting a building there, but especially where.

E

It's a vet clinic and people could be waiting in their cars with their animals. I think perhaps you.

E

Could you could at least consider some trees in the parking lot so that there's shade yeah so.

H

As part of the the formal design package, we will have a landscape plan included in that.

H

Given this was, you know, conceptual preliminary, we didn't include it in this, but.

H

Certainly, there will be most likely trees and some sort of plantings within those parking islands.

H

There's potentially going to need to be some sort of outdoor space for the the vet clinic itself, so.

H

That will all need to get worked out as we go through the detailed design process. Okay,.

A

Greg did you have questions? I did not thanks.

D

Thank you chairman, so the storm water improvements are only taking place in the.

D

Required parking spaces correct you're, not really.

H

Yeah it'd be mostly in the rear half of the lot okay, which will I mean so given right now that.

H

The high point- a lot is, is kind of in the middle here, so a lot of this makes it to the back so that.

H

Just by the nature of the the existing condition there, we will have to capture it and, and it will.

H

End up getting run through those same treatment, units, okay and then obviously, that that's the.

D

Lot line right there, so the the yeah so yeah, so this is this- is 230 commerce. This is 210.

H

Okay, it's that lot line running running between those two buildings. Okay, thank you.

A

Any other comments, thank you. Thank you.

A

A public hearing on a city council referral application of randy collins is the owner for.

A

The restoration of involuntarily merged lots at 77 meredith way their pre-merger status pursuant.

A

To art new hampshire, rsa, 674-39-2, small a's, some properties shown in the assessor.

A

Map 162 lot 16 and lies within the general residence. A district who is here to present.

P

Good evening, monica kaiser from hopeful phoenix, gormley and roberts, thank you for staying so late.

P

I'll try to be brief. I've, given you an awful lot of materials to review over about three.

P

Different submissions- I'm here tonight with randy and jeff collins they have resided in portsmouth.

P

For the last decade, they lived first at 55, pine, formerly meredith the place next door to this lot.

P

Was a troubled site and they did a great job redeveloping it.

P

And then deciding they wanted a smaller house and to downsize. They struck a neigh.

P

A deal with their neighbor miss due for to purchase her lot.

P

The house that on that lot is in need of significant renovation. I think my third filing.

P

Goes into detail in that and so ultimately, when their plans to expand that property.

P

And that physical expansion of that house are not feasible, they were looking at.

P

Building another house in instead and and tearing it down and trying to defray the expenses so that.

P

Led us to where we are now which is seeking a non-merger, so the highlights are that we have.

P

What were originally three lots on the first plan of elm place, designed by haven and emory lots 55.

P

56 and 57. it took a lot of deed research, um but we did find early deeds out of that.

P

uh Referencing multiple lots and referencing um more lots than just this one, but specifically.

P

Naming these three lots in 1862 and again in 1865.

P

We've, given you a map from 1876 that still shows the subdivided neighborhood after.

P

That it gets a little fuzzy, I think, there's some deaths, some probates.

P

And the property is there, after described just by its perimeter, basically 150 by 150, by 150, by 150.

P

In 1919, the house went to constantine sobraki and it stayed in that family uh for a very, very.

P

Long time the names changed in 72 and it was there after a rental, I think, until into the 80s.

P

So the situation we have is the lots were identified separately on the original 1956.

P

Plan identified separately in some of the deeds thereafter not referenced separately, but the.

P

Conduct in developing the lot has been to develop a lot 57 and essentially leaving lots. 55 and 56.

P

Vacant, the tax cards and the tax maps are sort of flip-floppy around. um It looks to me um and.

P

I've provided them all to you that the tax cards do like a two-third one-third split.

P

The first tax card only lists part of the property, not all of it. um The second tax.

P

Card seems to list both sites um on the same card, and it goes on like that. Until um the early 1990s.

P

um And at that some point after that, the tax card just references, one large lot about 22.

P

000 and change square feet. Tax maps are a similar story. They also.

P

Start out as a two-third one-third split and go back and forth before, ultimately ending up as one.

P

Lot in the last version and stephanie- I I saved you from jumping around, um but it would be my.

P

It would be my preference to have you pull up the 1856 map and some of the tax.

P

Maps um in case it comes up for questions, but I I know that there's uh exhibits up to. I think.

P

uh H or I so I don't want to have her jumping around at this hour, but that is the lay of the.

P

Land in terms of the unmerger our position legally, is that it is the city's obligation.

P

To demonstrate that a voluntary merger occurred by conduct or by an explicit merger by document.

P

Our position is that, while the deed description is one factor in the consideration- and it's certainly.

P

The factor that the assessor has focused on it's not the only factor that is considered the case.

P

Law is pretty clear that it's one thing that you look at other things. You look at involve how the.

P

Property was developed if it wasn't developed, was the construction on the property in such a.

P

Manner as to occupy more of more than just one lot, we think the way that the original house.

P

Which dates to the 1800s was constructed. It was clearly intended to occupy just one.

P

Of the three lots and you can see on the tf moran plan that stephanie had up originally.

P

The way that house was situated on that lot.

P

um The only other development on the lot uh appears to be simply some.

P

Landscaping some tree planting and that type of situation.

P

Currently, there's just the house and the shed on the original glock 57.

P

If you look at the current tax map, you'll see, as I'm sure many of you familiar with the area.

P

There are a number of these smaller original lots from the 1856 still in existence today.

P

Although some of them certainly like this one are larger, and so they may have been multiple lots.

P

Either purchased separately and combined, or they are other lots like ours- that just.

P

Happen to be occupying additional space in different configurations.

P

That's about the size of it. I know we're very tired, so.

P

If there are questions you have or randy and jeff is there anything else? You want me to say.

P

Okay, certainly, if there's questions, I can't answer I'll ask you to pitch in.

A

Any questions for the applicant.

G

Mr yes, um I have a question were: were these three lots ever described with meats and bounds.

G

That is bearings and distances and recorded separately in the registry.

P

I don't find a lot of meats and bounds compass readings um descriptions in the old deeds.

P

But they were described, and I think I gave you in my most recent submission in exhibit.

P

I think it would be the latest set of deeds.

P

um And I quoted from them in my latest submission dated february 10th and I attached them as.

P

An exhibit, and so how they were described, I'm just trying to find the exhibit number for you.

P

Exhibit I was additional deeds.

P

And so the early deeds in 1862 and again in 1865, say also they're granting half interest.

P

To each other, because it's all deeds going back and forth among all the developers, it seems like.

P

Also, one half part in common and undivided of land called land on christian shore being locked.

P

Numbered 51 to 55, inclusive 66, to 71, inclusive, 73 and 74 upon a plan of lots, I think I missed a line.

P

There but those lots are identified individually and then they refer to the uh 1856 plan.

P

Let me just get that deed in front of me because now I'm having trouble. So it's fair to say that.

G

All the descriptions are based on referencing to a plan, not all of them the early ones. Yes,.

P

And then, um in about 1878, the d chain stops in the middle. We can't there's a gap. um I think there.

P

Were probably some transfer of the property in in probate and such and then what happens is the lot.

P

Is thereafter conveyed 150 by 150? I want you know by by land of jones and smith, and so and so and it.

P

Doesn't reference the plan it just references the meaning to intending to convey what I got.

P

So that is the issue with the description and it's.

P

What the assessor's focusing on- and I think it's reasonable for her to focus on that.

P

My position is just that: that's not the only piece of the puzzle to consider.

P

I'm sorry 51 to 58 inclusive. I think I misspoke and said 55., so those early deeds referenced.

P

Those three lots specifically in a group of others and then referenced that 1856 plan.

A

I haven't studied this in any great detail, but I'm looking at the 1878 going forward. It seems like.

A

They are describing a parcel singular of land understood, and I think the issue with that is.

P

First of all, it's unclear to me whether some of those are.

P

Family transfers or transfers from probate- I think some of them are. I agree that that is a weakness.

P

But I also stand before you not carrying the burden of persuasion here. The city does.

P

But what I would say with regard to that is, if.

P

If there were an entire subdivision or a group of 10 lots created somewhere and.

P

Then I were then to convey them to you. um It might not necessarily be that I would describe.

P

You know this lot, this lot, this lot and this slide, I might just say, here's all of it.

P

Ideally, then, I would say meaning and intending to convey. You know lots 1 through 10 and that's.

P

Not what happened here, but you look beyond the description to other factors as well.

P

Not just focus on the deed description, that's the biggest beef I have with the assessor is.

P

She keeps going back to the d description, but the law is that you consider other factors as well.

A

The plan that you have prepared, uh they didn't find any monuments monumenting. Those other lots.

A

It looks like: is that correct? uh I'm not I'm not sure if you, I know that you know.

P

How to read a plan? So if you didn't see any monuments, then there may not be any.

P

I don't know that that's necessarily dispositive. I didn't suggest that just just evidence sure.

A

Yes, um I guess my biggest issue with this is that the prior owner considered this one lot, that they.

C

Bought it that way and considered it one lot and that's one of the things that the courts do look.

C

At is all prior owners intentions of ownership, and it was clear from letters that were sent to.

C

Us that that was her position on top of that, with the deed description for a very very long time has.

C

Been as one lot so, I have a hard time seeing this as going back. You know over 100 years to and where.

C

Was never really ever needed as an individual? A lot from what I can tell well with respect to the.

P

Prior owner, I will just say that one of the things that's difficult for a situation like this, and I.

P

Do agree that courts look at the conduct of the owners, but there hasn't really been a situation.

P

That I've seen yet there haven't been too many cases decided on this issue, where the court has.

P

Had to look at the subjective belief of a particular owner, it's more likely that that.

P

Information isn't available uh and the court is looking at, you know, did they put a shed.

P

On the other lot, did they build a pool on the other lot? Did they have a patio on the other lot.

P

Did they expand or build on this lot in a manner to violate setbacks or other things, and they don't.

P

Look, they haven't yet had an opportunity to look at the subjective declaration of a prior owner.

P

The other thing I would say about ms dufour is that she had had the opportunity to subdivide the.

P

Property herself and almost did and then did not, but also easily could have as she didn't change.

P

The description in the deed that she conveyed to collins, she just did what everybody does.

P

Which is, you know, repeat the same language in the deed that she got. So I don't think there was any.

P

Necessarily new declaration from her in terms of what was given to collins.

P

She could have requested a lot merger. She could have put a deed restriction on her property if she.

P

Did not want it subdivided or unmerged, but the big issue is that by the time karen dufour got.

P

The property the city was already treating it as one lot. So, if you think you have one lot and you.

P

Act subjectively, like you, have one lot, but the city's involuntarily merged. That is that really.

P

Fair, because why would you think that it's more than one lot, if you're, looking at your tax map,.

P

And it shows one lot, the question is: how did it get to that, and and was that you know that's what.

P

Happened with these on mergers is the person before due four did they file a request for a.

P

Lot merger did they do something. Did they request make a request to the city to be.

P

Treated as one lot and that's what the city has to demonstrate to us- and I don't see that they have.

P

I do think there is some interesting elements here. In terms of you know, the there were three.

P

Lots and then for a long time since the 20s, the city had them as two lots, and so you know why.

P

Is that and and what led to that I don't know, um I think it is important for you to know that our.

P

Intention is only to have two lots, not three. um I think I made that clear in my last submission.

C

uh But then why aren't you subdividing it? I mean that would be. I think, a more.

C

Straightforward route, if all you want, is two lots: why are you trying to now turn it into three.

P

uh We're not trying to turn it into three. I think there's been.

P

Three lots that have been merged together. I don't think that we have an obligation.

P

To request to unmerge all three of them, yeah you actually have to it- has to go back to original.

C

Status, that's that's what we've been told from day one and looking at these that if we unmerge.

C

Them it has to go to whatever you're. Considering was the original status, which you're telling us.

C

Is three lots? Well, my request would be to unmerge lot 57 that has the house on it. That would be my.

P

Request and if you wanted to entertain a condition that I file a form or merger to merge the other.

P

Two, I would do that, but I don't think that we are obligated to continue to operate as three. I.

P

Don't think we're obligated to build three things. I think we can take one out and keep the other two.

P

And if you want us to execute something to that effect, it'll be clear that we only want to take.

P

Out the house that was developed that clearly seemed to be developed in a way to only occupy.

P

Its you know 50 or 49.. I think I think the assessor is going to speak here.

A

Just one quick question: I'd like a question: I'm sorry that's who. Why is that? I do have.

P

One I have one quick question for you: if you can keep it just a simple. You said the prior owner.

A

Went to subdivide the property? Yes, okay, that's important information. I think she uh she had.

P

It under contract with someone who sought to do that. Okay- thank you. I think, unless there are other.

A

Questions for the applicant, I think the assessor would like to speak um on zoom. Can we bring her in.

M

Can you see me or hear me yes, okay, good evening, so I'm just gonna read um something that I was just.

M

Writing while I was watching the meeting so this way, I just wanted to make sure I hit all my points.

M

um On this, so again, I'm going to read sorry in a decision noted by.

M

In the decisions noted by attorney kaiser, the strength supreme court made clear.

M

That neither the legal description describing one lot nor the owner's acceptance of a taxation of a.

M

Single parcel of supports a finding of a voluntary law merger in these decisions, those properties.

M

Listed multiple lots within the d's legal description, along with a combined, meets and bounds.

M

Description so when they were looking at this, they weren't really focusing on this. In these decisions,.

M

But what they did say is that these deeds do list multiple lots, regardless of having one meets and.

M

Bound description, so that's how why they felt that the description of the law does not constitute a.

M

Merger, if it's listing multiple lots, the deeds for 77 meredith way go back to 1878, as stated.

M

And describes one parcel with no reference to additional lots within a single meets a balance or.

M

Description deeds prior to 1878, as represented by attorney kaiser, described 16 lots sometime after.

M

1865 these lots were transferred and described as single parcels without reference to multiple lots.

M

Attorney kaiser also stays at the property in 1992. The property record car reflects another.

M

Merger, it does not. The card reflects seventy five hundred square feet of primary site.

M

And an additional fifteen thousand two hundred and eighty seven square feet of secondary site.

M

This does not mean the assessor merged the law. This means the assessor reviewed, the property.

M

And the deed, and then the assessment was made, the assessor recognized the additional land and.

M

Assessed it at 10 of its value indicating that it was surplus land, not buildable. The 1994 d does not.

M

Reflect any merger, it simply shows the valuation methodology changed during the 1994 tax year.

M

Due to changes from a manual valuation system to a computer, automated mass appraisal system.

M

Changing the way the land was valued, so in the prior deed it was valuing two sites and then.

M

In 1994, they valued it as one site, and that was simply because of valuation methodology.

M

And changing from a manual system to a computer system, the collins that are requesting or the cons.

M

Request also indicates that tax maps indicate the city treated the parcel as separate lots.

M

The only indication I see that lots were treated differently is between 1951 to 1971.

M

When the parcel plan 89 lot, 45 was assessed as a 100 by 150 lot, which included the dwelling.

M

I have no additional records for lot 46 on file and the tax record indicate the lot was treated.

M

As a single parcel, additionally as reasonable conclude that 77 meredith way was assumed to be.

M

Sold as a single lot by mr force as she requested a subdivision of a single lot.

M

And she was receiving one tax bill. One would have to research records going back to the.

M

1800S to find these were three lots on a plan. The statute defines the voluntary merged, meaning.

M

Means a merger under rsa, 77 or 674 39a, or an earthquake, alert action or conduct.

M

That indicates an owner regarded the lots, as emerge. Ms defores regarded her lot as a single lot.

M

She went for subdivision approval as a single lot and she sold it as a single lot and you have all.

M

My other memos that basically tell why I feel this should not be unmerged. I do have an issue with.

M

This statute, um I feel that the statute should be directed towards properties that were merged.

M

By the actual owner that, if the property is sold by a new owner that that new owner should have the.

M

um Foresight to unmerge these lots, not the new owner at the time or before the lot was merged.

A

Thank you. um I think this is a public hearing, so.

A

I'll I'm going to open the public hearing, so we can get through the public hearing. To be honest,.

P

Is there anybody on zoom? Is there somebody on zoom, okay, three first first round speakers.

A

Go ahead, if you're there.

A

Anybody else on zoom she did submit a letter that should be in record.

A

Is there anybody present who would like to speak too far against this application.

A

Now we have a zoom person.

A

Go ahead, my name is kendra ford and I submitted a letter um for the last hearing that got moved.

M

To this um objecting to the to the land being subdivided into three pieces.

M

And when I wrote that letter that um the land which had been wooded was um being.

M

Completely clear-cut, um I've been told that that cutting was done mostly because a lot of the.

M

Trees were unhealthy and if, if that's the case, then that makes sense but.

M

So the the plan has changed several times as far as I can tell since the neighbors.

M

Were informed um in in every turn, we sort of get told that they would like.

M

To you know a different plan that that suits a problem that they have and they want.

M

That, like the land and the surrounding neighborhood to accommodate that, and it.

M

Looks like it won't serve the neighborhood well to do this, um and that and what they're saying.

M

Is if they don't subdivide the land that they can build a large multi-family unit.

M

On the land, which is what they did at their in the last lot, next door.

M

So I guess really. What I want to say is that none of these plans seem good to me and.

M

But I understand that there may there may be zoning that.

M

Doesn't uh allow you to make to not allow some of the plants.

M

But the water in the area would be very impacted.

M

By additional impervious service- and that seems like one of the things that.

M

Indeed makes that area unbuildable. I appreciate your thoughtfulness on this.

M

Somewhat tangled question, thank you. Is there anybody else on zoom.

A

Any other first time, speakers second time, speakers.

P

I just want to make clear that it was the components as intention once it was clear that.

P

The old house was not able to be expanded to have two structures on that lot and you can support a.

P

Single structure, a duplex structure, or something like that on a lot of this size. If, if, if it's all.

P

One, it is certainly large enough to support a two-family home. They simply thought wouldn't.

P

It look nicer if there was a small house here and a small house here rather than you know a longer.

P

Duplex type of arrangement, as for the assessor, I just direct you to page four, my last filing.

P

We just have a difference of opinion in the reading of the lead case, but I don't want to.

P

Bore you going back and forth on that, thank you, and certainly, if you have any other questions.

A

Third round speakers.

A

Nobody on zoom.

A

I'm going to close the public hearing.

A

What's the pleasure of the board.

C

Yes, instead of making a motion, can I ask attorney sullivan a question.

A

He's still here and he looks awake.

C

Sorry to drag you from your comfy seat.

A

You should have asked him before, but you know no during our deliberations. We're allowed to ask.

C

Staff and legal questions a couple preliminary points before we start, which is number one. I.

B

Have not studied the factual background of this case. I do not have the materials that you have.

B

And although I have the statute, I've been involved, of course, in many of these cases,.

B

In the past, and I'm familiar with how my question is truly general in the nature of yeah number, two.

B

uh I'm constrained I'm constrained from offering any opinions on the ultimate question, because the.

B

City's position on the ultimate question won't be determined until the city, council, votes and.

B

Once the city council votes, then, whatever decision the council makes it'll be the duty of the city's.

B

Legal department to advance that position shouldn't any litigation occur afterwards, so.

B

I don't have an opinion on the ultimate question because, as of yet the council has not expressed.

B

An opinion on the ultimate question so with that introduction, I'm happy to do whatever I can do.

C

Now my general question is because I believe the advice we've been given over the.

C

You know now in my 10th year of participating in this board and seeing many of these projects is.

C

That you, because I remember one on one of the streets off at islington- we couldn't you know it.

C

Was three lots and we couldn't make it two and one we had to go back to three when you stated about.

B

That earlier is entirely accurate. Okay, I just wanted to confirm that we cannot just take one.

C

Lot out because it comes right from the wording of the statute, if you find there was an involuntary.

B

Merger, then, you must unmerge the lots. Plural. Okay, thank you. That was really all. I wanted to confirm.

C

uh With that, mr chairman, if I might, I would uh make a motion that we vote to deny these lots, be.

C

Unmerged to the city council as a recommendation. Second, that's not me making a second yeah.

C

um Would you like me to speak to you? Yes, I I have seen a lot of these cases for a lot of years and.

C

um That has been something true and I have to say in every case that we've had we're looking at.

C

Current deeds that list the actual lots and lists the actual plan that it refers to.

C

um As a real estate attorney, who looks at a lot of deed descriptions on a daily basis,.

C

um I would find it extremely difficult in the chain of title to see how this would go, because.

C

We're they're gonna have to have a survey done and if what their ultimate goal is to have two lots.

C

I say, have you know, put in a simple subdivision of the two lots and I think that seems like a.

C

Much cleaner way, both for the chain of title and for the city's tax office moving forward. I really.

C

I don't see this going back over a hundred years to three lots from the 1800s and.

C

There's a lot of gaps in the ownership, there's a lot of gaps in the knowledge.

C

So I don't feel very comfortable at all saying that these should be unmerged into three lots.

C

Anyone else can get therapy. Mr chairman.

D

Yes, I'm sorry, that's okay, um everybody's pointing this way. I'm like. I just like to add that you know.

D

I agree with everything council monroe just said, um but I think I'll also add you know the the.

D

Application that we just had before us, I think, is the way to go with this particular lot. um With the.

D

You know when, when they do subdivide, I think a lot of the abutters issues can be kind of addressed at.

D

That point in time, runoff house layout that sort of thing. um I just think it's going to be a much.

D

Much cleaner way to go, I'm generally in favor of of trying to you know, unmerge these or subdivides.

D

I think that's how the you know city is going to get more contemporary housing, um but I think.

D

In this case, it's just going to be much cleaner to go ahead and do it that way. So anybody else.

A

All those in favor, aye, aye, aye, opposed motion carries. We have recommendation not to.

A

Recommend a merger, we have two more quick. I hope thank you.

A

So we have two extensions. I think I guess.

A

uh Requested 238 deer street llc for property 238 year street, requesting a one-year extension of the.

A

Conditional use permit that was granted february, 18th 2021. some moved. Second.

A

All those in favor, aye, aye, opposed promotion passes, have a request of robert gigliotti.

A

Owner for the property at 292 lang, road for one year extension, wetland conditional use permit.

A

Approval granted february 18 2021 some moves. Second, all those in favor closed motion carries.

A

Did you want to say anything really quick about tomorrow.

C

I I think uh miss begalia has a question. First, maybe I'll. Let her do that. First.

E

Because we are, in the other business part of the agenda, I'd like to suggest emotion, offer emotion.

E

um Particularly since there's a number of planning board members who are new.

E

Myself, amongst them, it would be really good to understand the history and context.

E

In which we are being asked to review proposed developments, one of the planning board's roles is.

E

Growth management and making sure each development is viewed in the context of the big picture.

E

And that we're meeting the needs of the community, a number of residents have expressed concern at.

E

The rate of growth and the number of large developments have been approved and how.

E

The quote character of portsmouth is changing, so toward that end it would be very helpful to us to.

E

Have a recent inventory of the mix of residential commercial hotel and workforce or affordable units.

E

That have been approved and built in recent years in portsmouth. I think we also need to know whether.

E

We are meeting the state standard and to what degree for our fair share of affordable housing.

E

Therefore, I would like to make a motion that we asked the planning department staff to prepare an.

E

Inventory of the following of the following those approved and built, or in the pipeline to be built.

E

Single-Family residences the number per year for the last 10 years, multi-family.

E

Condos, affordable units, hotel rooms and the number and types of variances and exceptions, including.

E

Conditional use permits and wetland conditional use permits during the last 10 years.

A

Is that a formal motion, that's my motion. We have a second.

G

Second, do you want to describe any further jane, or I think, you've described it pretty well, yeah.

E

I took time to think about it and write it down, so I just think it would be extremely helpful.

E

To have the bigger context, we can all certainly agree that the rate of growth is.

E

Large in portsmouth and that we have a changing cityscape, and so I think it's very hard to decide.

E

Already, even in just this meeting, I've heard and everybody knows, we need more housing.

E

And everybody knows we need more housing well to what extent, what type are we meeting it? I I.

E

Think we need these kinds of parameters in order to make the best most informed decisions possible.

E

And- and I don't mean to burden the planning department staff at all, but I think this is a good.

E

Place to start with new people on the planning board and a new planning planning director.

A

Beth you had a you had your hand up. um One of the things you asked about was uh workforce housing.

C

Units portsmouth housing authority, portsmouth housing authority is currently underway in doing.

C

A housing assessment for the city of portsmouth, so I think some of the information we'll get.

C

From that is going to be helpful in the next year, we're also having the rockingham planning.

C

Commission is in the process, uh along with all the other uh planning commissions throughout the state.

C

Are doing a housing assessment for the entire state and that's going to give us more information.

C

About not only our housing stock, but it's also going to tell us which towns in which areas have.

C

Enough, affordable housing have low income housing all of those and which do not. So I.

C

Think some of those numbers are coming in the coming year because there is a statewide push.

C

Every I've attended, multiple events and even the last two weeks talking all about different.

C

Aspects of our housing crisis, because it's not just the state, it's the entire country, that's.

C

Experiencing this right now and it's a phenomenon that is somewhat brought around by the pandemic,.

C

And somewhat brought around by low interest rates and a lot of people moving to rural era.

C

Areas so it's made our state very popular, um so I'm not against getting this information. I just.

C

Think we need to also look at it in the grander scheme of actual data for more than just our city.

A

G

I, like the request, I understand, that's concern. I also.

B

Question I mean there has been a a lot of new housing units in the last 10 years in portsmouth.

B

And hotels besides, what's been created, what's the occupancy of those these hotels and in these.

B

Apartments and and I mean are they filling up all of them- I mean, or are all these hotels filling up.

B

I think that's part of that study. That's valid information. I can tell you the the rental rates.

C

Of apartments is, rentals has always been a problem in portsmouth, but I mean hotel the number of hotel.

B

Rooms that have been created or added in the last five to ten years is it's significant and I don't.

B

Know that they're filling them up, I I don't know that they are or they're not. I just. I think it's.

B

Important, as you go to you know, keep building and building and building.

G

If, at some point you might have too much andrew I'm not saying we do, but you know yeah.

J

This is without a doubt of a larger conversation that we're going to have inevitably, but with.

J

Respect to the motion that jane has presented, I absolutely agree, but I do think that there.

J

Is a need to have a direction with it applied, and so before we set the city staff and the.

J

Planning staff out there on this mission and start collecting these resources. It is important to me.

J

In my mind, to have this overarching goal that we want to achieve, because if we sit here month.

J

After month receiving proposals uh with these resources in our hands, looking at the numbers and.

J

All this, yes, we can offer our suggestion and our feedback, but to some extent we do want to apply to.

J

A master plan we do want to apply to a vision plan and take these individual developers and say: hey.

J

You know thank you for your proposals. Here's what we're looking at here's, what we're reviewing based.

J

On these factual numbers that we're looking at so yes there's without a doubt that need.

J

uh I'm a part of some of these commissions and committees in my industry, where we get these.

J

Numbers month after month, so happy to provide them to everyone. Nonetheless, we have to have.

J

That direction, I think, before we decide where we're headed with that. Mr chairman. Yes, if I may.

P

The um some of this information that you're requesting jane has been provided to the previous.

P

Council, um certainly during my tenure, but I would I would also want to bring up that.

P

We're we're not a policy making board we're a regulatory board and I, I think, there's a.

P

Venue for um taking the informa information and carrying the conversation forward so.

P

um That's not to say the staff wouldn't be. You know pleased to put the information forward.

P

But I just want to put that out there in the context of what we are doing here as a body.

P

Versus other bodies, such as the council or the land use committee and other groups, well.

E

Actually, oh, can I speak. I don't know 11 30 at night raising my hand, but actually um I.

E

Just recently heard that a land use committee was formed and it would be really good. As a member of.

E

The planning board to understand what the mission, the goals, who comprises it, and how the planning.

E

Board is going to collaborate with it. I can tell you all that. Also I've been doing a lot of work.

E

Getting trained through the office of strategic initiative, taking my role on the planning board.

E

Really seriously here and it's my understanding from hours of power points youtube.

E

Trainings, etc, that a planning board is supposed to be both active and passive. We're here to review.

E

Site plans and subdivisions and grant conditional use permits and variances. I understand that.

E

But it seems like to me- and this is you know a fresh mind, so bear with me, but it does seem to me.

E

That we are missing our roles as an active board. One that's supposed to be.

E

Looking at the master plan, looking at our rate of variance and conditional use permit, granting.

E

And seeing why? What are the reasons for so if it? If we think it's frequent, if we think it's off a.

E

Normal curve, why and should we take another look at the zoning ordinances and recommend.

E

Revision of the of these zoning ordinances to the city council, that's my understanding.

A

Okay, I think I think we need a workshop meeting to discuss this in detail to pick up on what both.

A

Of you are saying some of what this board does affects: policy decisions made by the council.

A

And it has to make recommendations to council, and you know, growth, management, ordinances and things.

A

Like that can begin at and probably should begin with this board, so um I'm all for data as well.

A

And I know I know um the new planning director and I have been meeting regularly we're meeting every.

A

Other week with uh one of the principal planners as well- and I know she's been working, some of this.

A

Would you like to add something? The other thing I would like to add is that I think there are a lot.

M

Of uh initiatives that the board's interested in what you've just described to to me, I think.

M

We could bring some of that information to be to bring that exhaustive list. You know, based on our.

M

Capacity would probably take months to compile and would be prioritized above a lot of other things. I.

M

Think we we're working on understanding where our capacity is right now, because we primarily support.

M

The uh boards and uh committees that we're a part that we're part of and that we stand up every week.

M

And that is a great deal of work on the part of staff. I recognize the board has larger initiatives.

M

That they're interested in some interest in some policy work, but I would um propose that we.

M

Work on developing a work plan that is more comprehensive because I've you've just mentioned.

M

A whole host of things that the board is interested in and rather than spend,.

M

Six months on a study, because I think there is some data, that's already out there that's been.

M

Mentioned by multiple folks that I even asked the assessors, if we could, if they do break down.

M

I've shown some examples of how some assessors break down by unit types, and maybe they have.

M

Benchmarks over the years that we could show that over time. But I think that there is a larger work.

M

Plan, that's in question here, I'm working to try and understand what capacity we have to staff.

M

And then look to the board where we do have some capacity to try and identify.

M

Where they'd like us to direct our attention in consultation, of course, with the city council,.

M

Who ultimately sets our work plan, so would it make sense, would you consider an amendment to your.

A

Motion that we asked the planning director to come back in a month with a work plan looking to help.

A

Start this process of gathering this information for us. Yes, that's really reasonable sure. Actually.

A

I'm going to call for a vote. Are we good with that? I'm grooting favor hi.

A

Motion to adjourn, do you want to hear about the second house? I'm sorry I didn't. I did it.

C

On february 7th the city council meeting, I created a land use committee at the.

C

My request at the city council meeting at the behest of the city council, has approved uh the.

C

Purpose is to review all current zoning policies surrounding housing and development to encourage.

C

Sustainable diverse and affordable development, including expanded, multimodal transportation.

C

We plan on reporting back to the city council with any recommendations um that we have to.

C

Them and then that would get sent to the planning board, which would then get to look at it review it.

C

Have public hearings on it and send their final recommendations back to city council.

C

So we're going to start the policy there. The members that are on that are going to be myself.

C

Counselor blaylock counselor assistant mayor kelly, chairman uh chelman, vice chair clark,.

C

We have two staff members that are joining us, so planning director, zent principal planner, crack.

C

Now I also have invited and gotten okays with uh the executive director of the portsmouth housing.

C

Authority is going to join it and have a voice in it, and I also invited a member of the uh economic.

C

Development commission to join that, and I believe, if I can remember sarah sarah lachance's and we.

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Actually have our first meeting and just about eight hours from now here at the city hall. So if.

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You give us a chance to get started, we're going to take a very structured look at immediate changes.

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That we can suggest- hopefully I have a goal of 30 within 30 days, of our first meeting, we'll.

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Be making our first suggestions of some changes both to the adu laws, as my hope, and to some other.

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uh Workforce housing requirements that we have now as incentives, but then we also want to look at all.

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The city-owned properties and where we can expand on affordable housing and things through that and.

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We also want to look at housing, opportunity zones and some of the new legislature that's coming down.

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That can help us, so this is all in the works and you will all get to see it. We just need to do some.

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Of the research and some of the background work to get us get you guys some actual information.

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To look at and review so hopefully that will help everyone, and now I'd like to adjourn.

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In a few hours.