City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Planning Board, 21 Jul 2022

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From YouTube: 7.21.2022 Planning Board

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7.21.2022 Planning Board

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Good evening yeah and welcome to the july 21st meeting, of course, with planning board.

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First, item on the agenda is approval of minutes. We have three sets.

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uh Mr chair I'd make a motion that we approved the june 16th and revised june 23rd 2022 minutes.

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Along with the approval of the both june 29 special meeting and joint work session minutes,.

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Second, any discussion amendments all those in favor, aye, aye, aye, opposed minutes are approved.

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If determination of completeness for um request, 230 commerce way, llc is.

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Owner applicant for property, 230 commerce, way for amended site plan, review and hca health.

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Service of new hampshire inc is owner for property, 330 birth book avenue for amended site planner.

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Approval for an 8700 square foot edition.

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Are these determined to be complete so moved? Second, any discussion, all those in favor aye.

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Aye they are accepted as complete. I have a public hearing on old business. uh We have next two items.

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Three, a and b we can consider, discuss together and vote on separately. If there's a motion to that.

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Effect, some move. Second, any discussion on that all those in favor hi hi. All right first item is.

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Requested of hartwell llc is owner for property, 437 lafayette, road requesting preliminary and.

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Final subdivision approval to subdivide one existing lot with 65 365 square feet of lot area.

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And 123 and 9200 seat of frontage and lafayette, road, 336 and 6100 seat of front is an andrew.

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Jarvis drive into three lots as follows: proposed lot, one with 18 434 square feet of light area.

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123 and 9200 feet of frontage on lafayette, road and 129 and 5700 seat of frontage and android.

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Jarvis drive proposed lot, 2 with 16 606 square feet of lot area and 102 feet and 400 frontage on.

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Andrew jarvis drive and proposed lot 3 with three hundred twenty five square feet of blood area and.

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One hundred seven feet in front of andrew jarvis drive. This property is on assessors map 229 lot.

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One and is in the single residence b district, who was here this evening to speak to this application.

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Good evening, chairman members of the board, my name is justin masik and I'm an engineer with tf moran.

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I'm joined here tonight by corey caldwell of tf moran in joe called a role of smithfield.

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Construction also in attendance is derek durbin of durban law offices.

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And he's available via zoom, this project was presented at last month's planning board meeting.

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On june 23rd, and is for a proposed three lot subdivision located at 437 lafayette road.

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Identified on tax map 229 as lot 1., the project requires subdivision and site plan review approval.

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As well as a conditional use permit for a proposed attached accessory dwelling unit,.

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Being proposed in the single residence b zone during last month's hearing, the board voted to.

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Continue this application and requested that the applicant address several items before returning.

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To the board, the first request was for the applicant to meet with the abutting properties.

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To the south of artwell avenue and discussed drainage plans, as well as the maintenance of the.

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Private road- and secondly, there was a request that the applicant work with the abutting church with.

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Regards to the right of first refu refusal over a 50-foot wide strip of land on the subject, property.

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The existing church abuts the subject property to the east and is located at 40 andrew jarvis, drive.

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In an effort to address each of these items, the applicant has met with the aforementioned abutters.

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Over the past month, in an effort to hear their concerns and better determine their.

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Needs and he's been working actively with his attorney and the engineer.

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To make sure we come to a resolution that satisfies all parties involved.

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As part of the applicant's latest submission to the planning board,.

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There's been a couple of several items that were submitted to help address the the request from the.

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Planning board the first being a revised access and utility easement agreement between artwell.

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Avenue our excuse me, artwell llc, and the abutting property owners to the south of art will have.

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This revised agreement was circulated to the abutting property owners to the south and.

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Collectively we took in comments and the attorney has helped produce a revised easement agreement.

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And that was submitted as part of this, this latest submittal package. Since then, uh several.

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Comments from the abutters have come up and uh the applicant's been working with his attorney.

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To address um these minor items and uh he's working actively to finalize the document.

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Within the last week and it's getting close to being finalized.

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The second item that was submitted as part of the application was a drainage memo and.

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That summarizes a meeting on june 23rd that was held on the subject: property between the abutting.

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Property owners to the south, as well as the applicant and a representative from tf moran.

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During this meeting, some of the drainage concerns that were brought up in last month's planning.

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Board meeting were discussed between the abutters and and everyone else that was in attendance.

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um And the stormwater management plan for the development was discussed in more detail I'll.

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Briefly, go over what was discussed within the drainage memo, and then I can allow.

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Derek who's available via zoom to go over some of the edits that were made.

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In the revised access and utility easement agreement during the site walk on june 23rd.

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We met with the uh excuse me the abutters, to the south of artwell avenue.

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um At 36, artwell ave and attendance was butch richie and at 34 argolab was christopher chase.

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During the meeting, the applicant illustrated that the road on artwell.

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Try to highlight where we we took measurements right here at the driveway um to the center of.

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Our lab on both sides- and we showed with the level that there is about a three inch pitch.

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So there's a crown in the center of the road and the survey for this development reassures that.

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And essentially that means that any flow is generated on the north side of art will have.

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Can impact the properties directly on the south side, everything is going to want to run from west.

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To east there's a natural swale along the north side of artwell lab and in proposed conditions.

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um We'll be making that more of a conforming swale. So all the all the drainage from the proposed.

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Development will be collected into that swale and then it follows the natural grade of artwell.

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Avenue from west to east down to towards the end of the road so through showing that illustration.

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We got onto the same page with the abutters that, in fact, any uh development that's being added.

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On the north side of the street won't negatively impact their properties from a drainage standpoint.

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There is one drainage concern that was talked about at the driveway entrance right here on the.

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Center side on the south of artwell ave, this is a shared driveway between both of these lots and an.

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Existing four-inch berm was constructed because essentially, water was running down. The southern.

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Half of artwell avenue and then entering that driveway and there was a low spot at the bottom.

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Of the driveway that had no outlet and they had been dealing with puddling issues for the recent.

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Years and so that four inch berm was constructed which serves the purpose of keeping water out of.

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That driveway, but the applicant had offered us. You know part of this development to the north.

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That during construction, they can go and remove that four inch bump, which pretty much acts as a.

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Speed hump as someone's, accessing and leaving the driveway, and to alleviate that it would just be.

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Pretty much reworking the grade to still provide a pitch away from the driveway entrance to keep.

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That storm water out, but it's a much more drivable in and out experience for both of those abutters.

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And so that was discussed in detail and both both of the abutters in attendance.

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Were an agreement that that was going to improve their current situation and appreciated the offer.

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um And more so, the flows that are getting to that low point now are, like I said, generated.

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On the south side of artwell avenue, pretty much from this portion here to the west to lafayette.

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And then a portion of lafayette actually has the ability to overflow into our lab.

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So they're getting a lot of flows down this there's a curbed area in front of there.

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The lot here and that's conveying flows, and then it was just going straight down the driveway. So.

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Even though the proposed development to the north has no negative impact on this, the applicant was.

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Still offering this to the abutter, and so in summary, uh towards the end of the meeting.

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There was verbal acknowledgement between all in attendance that the proposed development.

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Was not going to provide any negative impacts on their properties and, furthermore, we were able to.

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Show through the drainage report and the grading drainage plan that we're abiding by the city's.

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Site plan review, regulations for drainage and we're actually providing a decrease.

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In post development flow flows and volumes so that pretty much summarizes the drainage memo that was.

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Included as part of this middle, and unless the board has any questions regarding this memo,.

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I can allow derek to jump in and touch base on, the revised access and utility agreement and.

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He's also here to help answer any questions that might be brought by the board from a legal stance.

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Looks like we have at least one two, just just a couple of questions regarding the the drainage.

F

um At what storm does the do? The bee hives activate the overflow beehives? Do you recall.

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I know during the lower the two year and the ten year storm, I don't believe they were activated, but.

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During the heavier storms like the 25 and the 50, they did begin to activate and then allow for more.

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Of a concentrated runoff to the swales, you can: are you able to bring up the uh grading and drainage.

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um It's actually it's a part of the site development plan, so I think it was in the second.

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Pdf, I can just highlight some of those areas where it ends up outlining to sure, and I guess, to follow.

F

Up on that question, um so it gets into that swale. I see the grating for the swale are the driveways.

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The three individual driveways also gonna is this: I don't see any culverts below the driveway, so the.

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Driveway is going to have the swale built into them or what? What keeps the water from ponding.

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At the corner of the driveway and then jumping back onto artwell avenue yeah, so the the driveways.

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Will grade down from the house elevation and then meet artwell avenue and it will follow.

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That that same soil shape, so water will be able to overflow and bypass those areas. Okay, so the.

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Driveway will have a dip in it before you come up onto our wheel, yeah just a slight dip. Okay,.

G

Yes, I have a question about the drainage swale on lot. One.

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um I see there's a 34 contour that swings from the property, then into the art, well, right of way.

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This is probably a question for the city, but is that allowed in portsmouth? Can you build.

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Straight drainage structures, in for your property within the city's right-of-way.

G

um So there's a line there um which it's actually still considered part of the overall existing lot.

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um Artwell avenue is owned by artwell llc, oh okay, and so all the impacts that you're seeing within.

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That entire lot line, which I can highlight here, it's the shape right here along andrew jarvis,.

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Down lawfully yet and then it goes extends to the bottom.

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uh Southern half of artwell avenue, so all the impacts within there.

G

Yeah, now that I understand it's a private drive, all my concern is gone. So thanks.

A

Any other questions did you want to have derek.

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Yeah mention some, I believe, he's in attendance right now and I'm.

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Not sure if you guys have to give him the ability to speak during the presentation.

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Yeah I I'm on justin as a as a panelist right now. So hopefully everybody can hear me um for.

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The record derek durbin um appearing by zoom uh yeah, just to touch on the um modifications that.

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Were made to the easement agreement that you last had before you in june, um there wasn't a lot that.

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Needed to be changed, but we did respond to a few of the concerns that were expressed by via butters.

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On artwell avenue- or I should say really the the existing residents of artwell avenue.

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Those concerns actually weren't terribly significant. They pertained to the restoration.

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Of artwell avenue after the construction has occurred on the three lots and basically, what.

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Artwell llc the developer agreed to do was to restore artwell avenue to its.

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Prior condition, post-construction of those lots, so that was one of the um that was really the.

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Most significant concern that had been expressed to us that we then addressed and um and then.

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Following restoration of artwell avenue or any um damage, it's done to artwell avenue. We, you know.

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Then the lot owners all at that point in time will be five lot owners or um presumably three.

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Different people owning the three different lots, but in any event, all the lot owners then would.

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Share in the responsibility of the maintenance and cost associated with artwork avenue,.

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Thank you. Any questions for the attorney.

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And I didn't read the second part of this that we are considering. You did present it, but.

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The first description was so long. I neglected to read the second part. This also includes the.

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Request of artwell llc for the same property for site plan approval and conditional use.

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Permit approval is permitted under section 10 8 14 40 of the zoning ordinance to subdivide.

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The lot and construct two single family dwelling units, one of which will have a.

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Attached accessory dwelling unit, so that's also part of this conversation.

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Do you have any other part of your presentation, maybe.

E

No, that concluded my segment. Thank you. um This is a public hearing, I'll open up the public hearing.

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Anybody here wishes to speak to for against this application.

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Anybody on zoom.

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Nobody wish to speak too far against this application.

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I'm going to close the public hearing if somebody raises their hand. Public hearing is closed.

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Or deliberation.

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Mr chair, I make a motion that we vote to grant preliminary and final subdivision approval.

B

With the following stipulations, in the memo of 1.1 through 1.6,.

B

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I'd like to explain that um yeah I mean I, the concerns that we had last time seem to have been.

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Mostly addressed and all of uh since nobody came up to speak against it, I feel comfortable that the.

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Abutters are pleased with the additional information that they've been provided, especially.

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On the drainage side of things so and the easement, so I'm happy to move the subdivision forward.

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Make sense any other discussion.

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All those in favor aye aye opposed motion. I'd also make a motion to vote to find the application.

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Meets the requirements set forth in section 10.814.60 of the zoning ordinance and grant.

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The conditional use permit with the following uh stipulations, which does include the ownership, will.

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Be in will be in accordance with the requirements set forth in the zoning ordinance section.

F

Second, second,.

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Any discussion or description of that one yeah. My only concern on that one was to make sure that the.

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Ownership was further because it's obviously not built yet, but once it's built that one of those.

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Units must be owner occupied that was, and we've made, that our stipulation, so I'm fine with that.

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Any other discussion, all those in favor aye opposed motion carries.

B

I will continue to make a motion that we vote to grant site plan approval with the following stipulations that are 3.1 through 3.6 foresight, plan review. Second,.

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I'd like to explain that one, um I think that our biggest site plan issues have been.

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Addressed which started out with the drainage and the access easement? How the private road.

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Is being maintained and managed and since all that's been worked out, I don't have any further.

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Complications on this one in my mind, so I think we're ready to move forward.

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Any other comments, all those in favor, aye aye opposed motion carries.

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We have a public hearing on new business. Again we have two items that I will try to read.

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This time for a and b, if the board wishes to discuss them together, so move second.

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All those in favor of considering these together all right, opposed we'll consider them together. So.

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We have two requests both for 230 commerce way. Llc is owner and applicant for property at 230.

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Commerce way for amended site plan review approval to construct a new two-story building with twelve.

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Thousand five hundred square feet of footprint and a total of twenty five thousand square feet.

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Of associated site improvements, including lighting utilities, storm water treatment management systems.

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Properties found on assessors map 216 lot 1-5 and is in the office research district.

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In addition, the same 230 commerce way llc is owner and applicant. It's requesting a wetlands.

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Conditioner use permit under section 10 1017 of the design ordinance for installation of a treated.

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Stormwater drainage, outfall, removal of 5070 square feet of impervious surface and 9250 square feet of.

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Buffer enhancements within the 100 foot buffer area for associated construction outside the.

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Buffer area, same property map 216 lot 1-5, who is here to speak to this application uh good evening.

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Neil hanson, with tyne bonds, also here for the project team, is patrick hermans from tyne bonds.

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And uh kelsey krauss representing the owner and applicant, um so we were before the planning board.

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Back in february for conceptual consultation for this project, um and this project was also.

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In front of the zba back in february and was uh granted a special exception for the proposed vet.

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Use that that is uh part of this project, uh so the proposed project site is a 230 commerce way. The.

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Existing property consists of a three-story office, building up along commerce way and then a large.

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Seldom used parking lot to the rear.

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So this proposed site plan includes the construction of a two-story, uh approximately 12.

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Excuse me 12 000 square foot, vet office in the rear of this parking lot, along with the.

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Reconfiguration of the um the parking layout in the rear, uh the biggest change from this this site.

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uh Plan from the when we were here previously for conceptual consultation is uh if you'll.

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Remember we had a secondary driveway that we had connected out to portsmouth boulevard and through.

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Consultation with you folks and the conservation commission, we have removed that from the plan.

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um You go to the next sheet. Please, so part of this uh proposal includes the construction of.

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A stormwater treatment system on the site, uh the existing parking lot uh from about a high.

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Point which is kind of in the midpoint of the site here sheet flows to the rear uh directly into the.

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Wetland with without any storm water treatment, so this proposed project will collect and treat.

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All the storm water runoff from the project area through a storm water, filtration system,.

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There's also in the rear, this existing parking lot is within the 100 foot wetland buffer, which.

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Is uh why we are also requesting the wetland conditional use permit.

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uh So this this will remove approximately 5 000 square feet of impervious surface from the.

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Wetland buffer um so I'll get into the wetlands conditional use permit piece.

I

Could you pull up the wetlands buffer exhibit then a separate pdf.

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Oh okay, yeah, oh.

D

There, it is thank you so in your package was this uh exhibit uh showing the.

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The the existing impacts of the uh within the wetland buffer, which is shown in on the left.

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Here in the dark, green hatching and then on, the right is in our proposed we're proposing to do.

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uh Some uh buffer well and buffer restoration so uh of over 9 000 square feet, so that'll be in the.

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Area where we're moving the existing pavement, as well as where the new drainage outfall is.

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Going we'll be restoring that area with a wetland buffer seed mix and then some additional plantings.

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Along the existing tree lines, some trees and shrubs to enhance that area. So, within the cover.

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Letter we had gone through the six criteria for the granting of a conditional use permit.

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I don't know if I need to specifically go through all those we did receive a.

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Unanimous recommendation of approval from the conservation commission with a couple stipulations.

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And those stipulations were addressed as part of this final submission, as well as we had.

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Received a number of stipulations from tac when they recommended approval, and those were also.

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Addressed as part of the uh the submission package and that'll answer any questions you might have.

A

Any questions to the applicant jane yeah, I had a couple.

J

um In your demolition plan on point number 15, you talk about removing trees as part of you.

J

Know to in order to proceed with construction, but it's not really much more specific than that. So.

J

I was just wondering when you're planting these trees in the 9250 square foot.

J

Wetland buffer area that you're restoring it is it a net zero. Is there a net gain in trees,.

J

And you know size of mature trees what happens in terms of trees? So we're not the only area where.

I

We're actually removing any vegetation is in this narrow strip here, where the new, the uh storm water.

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Discharge is going to be going so for the the majority of the site, we're not we're not removing.

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Any of the existing vegetation- that's that's sort of around the perimeter of the site, so I don't.

I

Have an exact count, but I would, I would say, we're we're probably right about net even on on trees.

I

uh Just given that the limited amount of cutting we actually have to do for the the construction.

I

Work: okay, when you say net cereal, you mean so mature trees are replaced with mature trees and.

J

It's not like maturity, I don't know specifically what is in that in that area we are cutting.

I

As far as mature trees goes, I jus. I just think point. 15 should be a little bit more specific.

J

Then because it's so open-ended, I don't. I don't have that page up in front of me right now, but.

J

It's open-ended and not very specific about that. I mean that's it's more of a general note.

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About the removal of stumps and trees to be done in accordance with state and federal law,.

I

It's it's not really project specific and then um did you guys do a parking demand analysis.

J

Of any kind, uh yes, so on the site plan we have the parking kelp for the site.

I

So we were just we just used the city of portsmouth's parking regulations for the site.

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And we require 193 spaces and we're providing 202, and that is for the combined use of the existing.

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Office building and the new veterinary building, I mean since it's a two-story new building and it's.

J

Described as veterinary care, I'm just curious does that include like a hospital emergency? I don't.

J

Know: crisis emergencies. There is emergency care uh in the in the within the vet. Yes, so, but it's not.

J

Increasing the parking demand very much, even though, like what will be the opening hours will.

J

It be 24 7, some part of that building, yes, it'll be it'll, be 24 7.. So the the reason we're able to to.

I

Fit this building on this site is because the the amount of parking that's currently there is way.

I

More than is needed for the office use, so we're able to put this building on this site and.

I

Still have enough parking spaces per the city's regulations and then my last question is actually.

J

About dog waste stations, um I do see that you guys put in um you know like uh dog walking areas both.

J

On the patient's side and just for the public, but what about in that parking area.

J

Because it looks like so I don't know, can you explain about the lawn area? That's like so it's.

I

Within the rear of the site here so closest to the vet use, these new islands are going to.

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Be pretty heavily landscaped, so, um ideally the you know, people bring their pets will use the.

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The designated area for that and then again, as you know, there's a separate uh pet relief area for the.

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Staff to take out the the animals that are currently there, one of the stipulations of.

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The conservation commission is, they asked us to sign the wetland buffer, noting the buffer and.

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Also indicating the pets were not allowed to okay, so that's that's an effort to keep uh animals out.

I

Of that uh restored area, yeah. Okay, thank you any other questions for the evidence, jim. Yes, um I have.

G

A question really on just how this site ended up with so much extra parking. Did the land use change.

G

Or did was there a proposed taller building that so much parking was built? It was just a mystery.

I

I mean I would just imagine that uh it's it was, I don't know when it was originally developed, but.

I

Yeah I mean I, I think in that time it was cram as much parking on the site as you could. You know, get.

G

And all right, that's um it makes sense. It was just odd that for years like you.

G

Said there was acres of vacant parking and that's a lot of money to build it for not.

G

To use it now, we are so I guess yes, but I'm not not entirely sure of the history of why.

A

All right, thanks do you know, have you worked with the dpw about the uh fair share dedication on the.

A

Pedestrian multi-use path, yeah, I think we've had initial uh conversations with them. The.

I

The ownership is they're looking for some document, historic documentation on the site and um they're.

I

They're planning on uh continuing to work with the city on on figuring out that that fair share.

I

And I think it was noted as a recommended stipulation and they're. That's very good.

A

Yeah, it was not unacceptable, so it's still a little bit more to do yes, yeah, okay, mr.

K

Chairman staff's requesting that item, that stipulation, I think I sent you note earlier.

K

Be added, we think that is ongoing still and that we'd like to add that to the stipulations yeah.

A

Any other questions for the applicant.

A

Being none, I will open the public hearing.

A

Anybody here or on zoom, we should speak 2-4 against this application.

A

Nobody on zoom.

A

Last call close public hearing.

A

Or deliberation, mr chairman, I make a motion that we find the application meets the criteria set.

C

Forth in 10.1017.50, and to grant the wetland conditional use permit as presented second.

A

There is one, as the planning director said, there was one additional.

A

um Stipulation attack comment that the applicant would work with the dpe to determine fair share.

A

Contribution amount to be dedicated to pedestrian multi-use path, construction.

A

Market street, which we just discussed so just one more thing to add into the list into the notes.

B

Should that be under site plan? Is that under 2, the site plan.

C

Or is that under the conditional use permit, it would be under 2 site plan.

A

Good, that's where I put it.

A

The motion in the second okay, with that small addition we're just voting on.

C

We're on number one: first, we need to vote on the run. First, I'm sorry.

A

I put an undersight plan, but we're not there yet. Okay.

A

So we have motion second on the wetlands conditional use permit.

A

All those in favor, aye, aye opposed motion carries now site plan. Mr chairman, I.

C

Make a motion we vote to grant site plan approval with the following conditions.

C

2.1 through 2.8 into addition, as noted regarding the multi-use path. Second,.

C

Any discussion, I think they did a good job coming back with everything we asked for from the last.

C

Meeting, I think so all those in favor, aye aye opposed motion carries. Thank you very much.

A

We have one more application where we have two from the same landowner.

A

We can consider these together if the board so chooses. Second, all those in favor aye.

A

Opposed we will consider these together two requests of hca health service of new hampshire. I.

A

Assume that's just supposed to be incorporated as honor for property located at 333. Both work avenue.

A

Requesting an amended site plan approval for an 8 700 square foot, addition to the.

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Existing building with associated landscaping utilities and sidewalk connectivity with other.

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Related site work: this property is on assessor map 240 lot. 2-1 is in the office research district.

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In addition, this same property for hca health service of new hampshire was requesting a.

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Wetlands conditional use permit approval under section 10 1017 in the zoning ordinance for.

A

200 square feet of permanent and 4 400 square feet of temporary impact to the inland wetland.

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With 13 000 square feet of permanent and 4 300 square feet of temporary impact to the 100 foot.

A

Buffer area with associated expansion of hospital facilities- again, it's assessors map 240 lot, 2-1.

A

Is in the office research district who's here to speak to this application.

L

Good evening, good evening, my name is matthew hamby. I am a civil engineer.

L

uh With kimberly horn, who worked on the site plan portion of this project with me is chris dumont.

L

Who is the project architect? Who can speak to any of the building elements or programming inside the.

L

Building, as stated, we are here for hca healthcare and portsmouth regional hospital seeking a site.

L

Plan amendment and a wetland conditionally used permit for the 8 700 square foot building edition.

L

This building edition is a fully a horizontal. Expansion is going to be a cancer treatment.

L

Facility which will be a new program to portsmouth regional hospital, that the facility is excited to.

L

Offer the community, with the site plan that we have been to uh the board of adjustments for.

L

A building setback um adjustment from a 50-foot standard to a 40-foot standard which was approved.

L

We've been to the conservation commission for the wetland buffer encroachment as well.

L

As a permanent wetland encroachment, they had some stipulations in which we have.

L

Satisfied and resubmitted, as part of this planning board submission, and I believe we did.

L

Get recommendation for approval from the planning board and, lastly, we've been through tac. The.

L

Technical review committee and we have satisfied their comments with this planning board submission.

L

um So like, as stated, we're the first things we're encouraging the wetlands we're removing 200 square.

L

Feet of permanent wetland, but we are establishing uh 150 square feet of new wetlands. So it's a net.

L

Increase of almost 1 000 square feet of wetland that pond is also is actually a man-made pond.

L

When the hospital was originally constructed and that pond volume is being increased by.

L

Two thousand cubic feet to help attenuate the two through 100 year. Storm events.

L

There's also part of this project is a new mobile mri unit. That's uh more on the rear end.

L

Of the hospital near the ed, it will have a small retaining wall to hold it up. A mobile mri unit is.

L

Is a it's a basically a tractor trailer with an mri unit inside of it in the event that.

L

The hospital needs to service their mri, so that will just be a concrete pad that will.

L

Be infrequently used by the facility when, when the time is needed, we are removing.

L

15 parking spaces, four of which are ada, we're adding back eight total spaces.

L

Six of those which are ada, which will be new, concrete spaces uh near the patient discharge.

L

We are reworking that canopy it's existing today, but we're going to they're going to.

L

Tear it off and rebuild it to make it more functional entrance for the cancer center entryway.

L

That is kind of the history of where we've been in the site planning schematic thus far.

L

Open any questions that the plane board may have any questions. The applicant.

M

It's certainly in here, but do you want to just highlighting.

M

The relocation of the public utility lines, the water line and the fire line there yeah.

L

So the utilities are serviced off of borthwick today they enter, um they enter, see how I use it.

A

Top button hold it down there we go uh so it enters right here where the sidewalk meets the.

L

Existing building, and so that connects it actually routes through the wetlands, which is part of the.

L

Conservation commission uh encroachment that we requested so that will be maintained. That's.

L

The main feed to the hospital so we're just those are all private utilities. At that point,.

L

uh So the contractor is going to pick it pick that water line up and route it around the new.

L

Footer and then tie it back into the existing, we call it a riser room, which is where, like the fire.

L

Pump lives that services the hospital and then the fire line as part of the icu project two years ago,.

L

We needed to get a fire department, connection and fdc closer to that hydrant.

L

And so we rerouted it around the wetlands, and that was one of the comments from the attack. There was.

L

Confusion on it is that a public fire line and we revised the drawings to show that that's a.

L

Private, I believe it's a four inch. We call it a dry system, so fire truck would connect to the.

L

Hydrant connect to that and it would surcharge the sprinkler system inside the building.

L

So that that again is just a private utility that feeds the existing fire suppression system.

A

Any other yes yeah, I'd just like to ask for clarity um again about.

J

How you are how the design accounts for the quote filling of a portion of the pond by expanding.

J

The pond, can you just go over what happens to the footprints of the pawns yeah? Absolutely um there's.

L

There's a colored exhibit in our package, probably 10 sheets down or something that may help.

L

Color makes everything easier for me, so it might make it easier for staff because there's something.

L

Yeah go to the pond impact plant. I'm sorry pond modification example: that's it yeah! So.

L

So yeah the orange so that if you can tell the notching right, that's the building outer limits.

L

So the orange is currently pond um this, and this is so there's really. This basin's analyzed in.

L

Two ways it's analyzed as wetland, and then it's also analyzed as a as a true detention pond that.

L

Attenuates our storm events, um so in this case this was for the pond, so we lost. So when you talk.

L

About a pond, you talk about volume, not really think about it. 3D wise, uh we removed a small.

L

Portion of volume there, but we pulled the contours up and wrapped them, and this is where we picked.

L

Up the additional volume so we're the way that you read that we're filling in a portion of the orange.

L

And we're digging it out in the blue if that makes sense, so imagine digging that out and then.

L

Putting it there, but we're actually increasing the pond volume by 2000 square feet. So there's.

L

A cubic feet, excuse me, so there should be 2 000 cubic feet more of blue on this exhibit than there.

L

Would be orange that makes sense and you're doing it because of of something about oxygen tanks.

L

No that wasn't doing it. Why are we doing that? Because, just for the way that that pond is modeled.

L

And what it was sized for originally when the hospital is built, we don't want to add we don't.

L

Want to take away the storage, because that would cause flooding downstream. So we want to. We want to.

L

Hold the same amount of water that's holding today and we're actually increasing about 2000 cubic.

J

Feet but it's for purposes of storm water retention, exactly okay and and then just as.

J

An aside is there any bird life on these ponds that are going to be adversely affected? No well.

L

We've had environmental studies and there's been nothing. That's come up on that. uh We are.

L

uh Replacing we are doing a planting plan for the for the newly established wetlands.

L

And we are providing, um I think, they're choke berries which have a berry that would provide.

L

uh Food for wildlife of that type, nature, yeah; okay, thank you! Yes, ma'am! So, with the criteria for.

C

The cup and wetlands you're putting a building in wetlands and you're, putting a slab in wetlands so.

C

How did you go through the analysis that there's no better place for the slab for the mobile mri.

C

And there's no way you can build your building without going in the wetlands.

L

So the location, so as far as the programming, the location of the build of the addition is.

L

That kind of what your well, basically, those criteria for encroaching on wetlands says you.

C

Can't build in them sure unless there's no other place to build yeah. Absolutely chris.

L

Do you want to talk about the program in the building and how it ties into the existing.

L

Program of the hospital sure at the point, thank you.

G

Apologies name's chris dumont work for gould turner, the architect for the hospital.

D

Basically, patrick, please please chime in on this.

D

Oh well, the hospital has basically ran the lot that they're on they basically ran out.

D

Of space to actually build on, that's not either has setbacks for wetlands or.

D

Property setbacks and all this is the basically the really the last one unless they want to go.

D

In the back, which is up against um 95., so this was the lat and then they also have the power.

D

Line they also have the big large utility power lines which there's an easement there.

D

They can't even build on that and the front of it. It's all parking and after that easement it's.

D

um How much parking do you have based on the requirements? It seems to me looking at this. That's.

C

The best plan you got right there, why couldn't you move the building in and the pad north, nor.

C

Down rotated yeah down, if I'm looking at the compass rose in the top question, yeah move it.

C

Down which appears to be north by the compass rose, yeah, yeah, yeah, the way the street origin.

L

So I guess a couple things there's existing outpatient, like I mentioned earlier, there's.

L

A canopy there that's been not been used, it's that we were there to staff exit only.

L

And so the opportunity to repurpose that to be a cancer center entry drop off and pick up patients.

L

Was important so that really that location for the cancer treatment facility is one of the main.

L

Reasons this is where it is, and then, as far as the reason for it approaching into the wetland, you can.

L

Speak to this, the it has a linear accelerator in it, which is a cancer treatment, uh vault and.

L

It's 50 by 50.. The vault needs to be to keep the radiation within it within the vault. We needed.

D

We needed 50 feet clear from the existing building out.

C

Okay, but that's east and west, so back to my original question: if you moved the building.

C

And the pad into the parking lot, would you still have enough parking for the hospital.

L

So you're saying you're saying build it out here: no build it! This way down this.

L

Is existing structure? Sorry yep, I know but say take the two brown things and move them north.

C

Right there that's part of the, uh can we get back to the site plan yeah I mean unless you.

C

Think this is: is there a building there a parking lot building? Oh, this is this: is our hospital.

M

The only parking lot is out from the hospital. Sorry, okay, sorry, no you're good. We should have.

L

Probably done a better job of again that that big white thing is the existing yeah.

A

Yes, that's we should have made it more clear got it. The diagonal line across that plan is.

A

Your right to the power line, easement correct, that's the power line and you can't you can't go.

A

Into that, that's correct, correct: what are the programmatic constraints inside the building.

A

I mean there's a reason you put it where you put it, I assume that's where you got to put it.

A

Is that yeah I mean there? Was there that's what I was trying to say? There is no other.

D

At this time there, oh sorry at this time, there is no other really space that the hospital has to put.

D

This program on their campus, certainly there are features inside of the hospital that that.

N

Require to be at a very specific location as well for patient flow and availability of of services.

D

And so forth, the component that's in there now is radiology and what makes it very convenient.

D

For a cancer center is to have the radiology department next to it, a linear accelerator.

N

Edition is a very complicated thing. I it is it's tough, I mean I did we like, where we put it. No.

D

There wasn't many other locations on their site to place this edition. Any yes peter, so parking.

A

That's a I've been to the hospital recently and for some testing, and I noticed that the lot was.

O

Full there was really nowhere to park. Hardly at all um is it looks like you're looking to expand.

D

Access for more more more cars to come. Is there any change in the available parking? That's going.

G

To be there afterwards, yes, our good friends of tom bond are designing a 500 parking space.

L

Remote lot for hospital staff across borthwick, which I will probably get presented on soon.

L

August we expect that to come forward in august yeah, so that will be. I know the hospital is.

L

Super excited, and so is the community. It wasn't quite ready. This isn't a stipulation.

L

It's in your tabulation, though, is that yes, sir yeah we accounted for it. Yes, sir.

L

Thank you any other question, just jim getting back to what mr mohanna was talking about alternatives.

G

um Is there any reason this couldn't have gone up as far as putting a build build? This edition.

G

Vertically, instead of horizontally easement as architectural yeah.

D

The previous project, I'm sorry, the previous project for the hospital was an icu which is.

D

On on this, they, which is located on this whole area of the hospital.

D

Structurally, they could only handle a second floor.

D

So that that that area of that roof has already been occupied for an expansion already.

D

Due to structural, if, if not, then they would have had to remove what was built and redo.

D

The structure again: okay, well, I I'm sure you're as familiar with the properties. Everyone else is.

G

You're right, it's surrounded by wetlands, pretty much 100 percent and if enforcement hospital has.

G

Any future expansion, I think vertically, is the only option you're going to have so I totally.

D

Understand um I didn't know if there's this thing was super heavy. Was this particle yeah the weight.

L

Of a linear accelerator and the magnet inside is I yeah. We can't we can't actually yeah that that.

D

Program of the cancer center needs to either be below grade or on grade. Okay, that makes sense.

A

Any other questions the applicant.

A

Either part of the application.

A

No other questions.

A

Open the public hearing public hearing is open.

A

Is anybody here to speak too for against this application.

A

Anybody on zoom.

A

Very peaceful evening.

A

Last call nobody here to speak close to public hearing board's deliberation. Mr chairman I'll.

F

Make a motion that we vote to find that the application meets the criteria set forth in 10.

F

10 17.50 and to vote and two grant the wetland can use conditional use permit as presented second.

A

Would you like to discuss that corey sure I mean, as we were just discussing um this is.

F

Not a good location for a hospital um given that uh the entire road parking lot building.

F

Everything is in wetlands, um so moving forward. How do we, you know, make things work.

F

I think the applicant did a good job, explaining the constraints with the structure.

F

um The structural constraints of the addition with the equipment going inside just looking at.

F

The site plan, obviously they have that power line um right away that uh yeah. You can't do.

F

Any building within that footprint and then you have the actual wetland buffer um setbacks. I know.

F

That you know they are encroaching into a man-made wetland. Hence no wetland buffer uh mapped on that.

F

One, but I think, by expanding the pond doing what they can to keep the volume where it is also the.

F

Plantings as well is going to uh help mitigate any impacts that they have by expanding into the pond.

F

Thank you question comment that I'm not sure anybody here can answer.

C

But the difference between a man-made wetland and a non-man-made wetland.

C

It's great that they're actually creating more wetlands that were previously created. Is there.

C

And I'm in favor of that, but if it's an existing non-man-made wetland, we're not allowed to build it.

C

Unless there's no place else to build, so is there a difference between a man-made wetland and a.

C

I guess it's called a jurisdictional wetland in my experience, that is a.

A

Would you care to address that earlier? I only can go by the notes that the applicant provided.

K

Which, essentially, they state that this is not a jurisdictional wetland, but actually a storm.

K

Water wetland, okay, is what they've called it, and uh maybe they can draw uh give us sort of more.

K

Details about the difference between the two and how the distinctions are made. They can't because.

A

People no not now sorry, I guess that won't be that's right, but that's actually helpful because I.

C

Know, jurisdictional wetlands are existing natural wetlands and this is a pond. A storm water wetland.

K

Is what it's described as and they're increasing it not decreasing it, and it's not like it, has a.

C

Natural habitat for frogs or something I'm just trying to get comfortable with the fact that.

C

They're making it bigger, but they are building in it. If anybody else has comments to help me with.

C

That yeah, I guess uh just I guess my trying to explain it um is uh you know this pond was built.

F

For stormwater purposes you know it didn't have when it was first built, there was no. There was no.

F

Forethought into plantings or bottom habitat or anything of that nature, in fact, you know.

F

It's likely if they were looking into building the pond they were trying to. Actually you know.

F

Increase drainage infiltration in the bottom of the pond, so once again they were looking.

F

For sandy soils of that sort of thing, and this kind of goes back to the um when.

F

When sandy was here discussing with us um about mitigation, and one thing that I think.

F

Folks have seen time and time again protecting natural uh wetlands is the best thing you can do.

F

Whenever someone tries to go in and build a new wetland more often than not it fails, it doesn't.

F

It doesn't it, it doesn't. um The end result isn't what everybody wanted, and it just ends up being.

F

Once again, some sort of man-made feature that kind of works, and not nearly as good as a ugly.

C

Green pond, with lg yeah, exactly not nearly as good as a natural as a natural pond. um I mean certainly.

F

It certainly has value for sure, and that's why it is still mapped as a wetland. um But it's.

F

You know it's it's not as good as at least from what I've I'm not a well in scientist.

F

Or anything, but from what I understand it doesn't have the same ecological value.

F

As a as a natural pond, so that's why it's a little discussion was to get us all comfortable with the.

A

Concept, it was built to detain storm water exactly so it wasn't a wetland before it sort of kind of.

C

Became a wetland, but by definition, because the definition is vague, it's not a jurisdictional.

C

Wetland all right: okay, yes, and because it's man-made they're, just basically moving it.

B

And they're doing a good job of that. That's fine, but it's all wetland.

C

Created I'm fine thanks! That's why they're asking for a permit yeah, exactly andrew! You had your.

A

Hand up yeah, I just had a, I suppose, a comment but I'll preface it by saying I don't quite entirely.

M

Understand the electrical easement and what the constraints are there. um But having now heard that.

M

There will be additional parking across the street. Would it ever be a consideration to look into the.

M

Existing parking lot and reorienting the existing entry off of borthwick and then constructing more.

M

East to west, rather than north to south in this regard so kind of closer to the existing parking.

M

Lot now and then putting a new building or new structure over that way, I think, if you look at.

A

The sheet c401, you see how the building steps and just touches but doesn't go across that.

A

Line that's their restriction. They can't go into that with a building yeah. I suppose I was thinking.

M

If it were two separate buildings, but having heard their reasoning and logic, I certainly get it.

M

But, to any extent that that was not the case would be, would we be looking at.

M

Structures on that existing parking lot was my thought, but I think it's since been answered.

A

Big negotiation with a power company yeah, I won't raise my hand, probably wouldn't work.

A

So we have a motion in a second any other discussion, all those in favor all right. I opposed.

A

That approve the conditional use permit for the wetlands. We now have a site plan. Mr chairman, I'll.

F

Make a motion we vote the grant and the site plan approval of the following manipulations.

F

2.1 through 2.8, as presented in the staff memo second, would you like to explain that one corey.

F

Sure, once again, you know, I think they. um Obviously they have to comply with a lot of ada items.

F

um Seeing that is the hospital, so I think the the reconfiguration of the entrance way there.

F

um And as we previously discussed, everything has to be first floor, anyways and then also the.

F

Mobile unit um yeah trying to basically what's the best location to get that.

F

Mobile unit in there, while still being able to easily.

F

Move it when necessary, um I think uh I think the site has shown works. Okay. Thank you. Any discussion.

A

All those in favor aye opposed motion carries.

A

We have another public hearing on new business request of lansin and sophie lachance as owner.

A

And applicant for property at 11 fletcher street, requesting conditional use permit for approval.

A

Under 10 10 17 and zoning ordinance for the installation of a storm water under drain outlet.

A

Creating 140 square feet a permanent impact within the 100 foot, wetland buffer.

A

This property is shown on assessors map 233 law at 76-1 and is in the signal residence b district.

A

I will be refusing on this one chairman. Thank you um andrew you disappeared. Oh there, you are.

A

Corey is recusing himself. Will you sit for this one? Yes who's here to speak to this application.

O

I am uh I'm alex ross. I prepared the psych plans that were submitted, um I'm here with the.

O

Owner lanson lachance, so this is actually a very simple project that involves a tiny bit of work.

O

In the wetland buffer, so there's no disturbance in the weapons at all. It's just in the wetland buffer.

O

If we could turn to the site photos.

O

So, on the on the first sheet of the site photos, this parcel is at the end of fletcher street.

O

um So you can see that's boxed out in this in this first sheet and then the next street down.

O

Is benson if we could go to the next sheet? So this is a view looking down towards benson and.

O

The natural grade out there slopes down towards benson and then out towards the woodland wetlands.

O

So that's what we're here about today, there's actually no wetlands on this parcel.

O

But the 100 foot buffer does come across the parcel. So if we could go to our site plans.

O

And I guess I'm on the first sheet.

O

So this is the existing conditions plan.

O

And way down here in the lower left is where the wetlands are. We delineated the wetlands down there.

O

So you can see the 100 foot buffer cuts across here in the parcel. Also, you can see there's an.

O

Existing house down here fairly close to the wetlands, which is on benson the next street, down.

O

And because of the configuration and location of all that it's a sensitive area where.

O

The wetland buffer and wetlands should be protected if we could go to the next sheet.

O

So this is our site plan.

O

And what you can see down in this corner is where we have a small drain outlet. So it's really.

O

Going to be similar to it, a foundation drain daylighting at the rear of the site.

O

We did meet with dpw and walked this site and they're they're, very particular about where they.

O

Wanted this drainage outfall? Originally, we did want to keep everything out of the hundred foot.

O

Buffer because a cup is required, but dpw kind of directed and recommended to us.

O

That they would like this drain line in that corner.

O

We also met with the conservation commission.

O

And uh reviewed uh this area, um they did want a planting plan. So if we can go to the next sheet.

O

So this is our landscape plan.

O

We came up with eight trees, kind of up the slope and then down in that flatter.

O

Corner area, a lot of shrub plantings around this drainage, outfall.

O

So it's a very small disturbance, typically on a residential lot like this.

O

It's not given this thorough, a review, but because of the wetlands that are off-site.

O

Dpw conservation, commission.

O

One of these plantings wanted these measures in place. We also did prepare a drainage study.

O

We submitted that to dpw, so that involves previous.

O

Pavement, a rain garden uh infiltration areas and roof cutters.

O

So again that the only reason we're here tonight is is just the small outfall in this corner.

O

It's not in the wetlands but there's a little bit of work in the wetland buffer.

O

So we'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

A

Any questions the applicant yeah um have you had discussions with that house that you can.

B

See in that last photograph, you showed us as far as drainage onto their property and whether or not.

B

There's any issues there or have any if there are any issues, have those been addressed.

O

Yes, so that's a good point: if we can go uh back to the site plan.

O

This house, down here on benson, is kind of in a low-lying area and I think that's.

O

Why all this this came about that owner has had previous concerns, where she calls the town or dpw.

O

So because of that, um dpw was very aware that we.

O

We want to avoid any kind of outfall that makes a drainage path directly towards that.

O

House or that parcel, so that's why they push this over in this this corner, which, by the.

O

Contours gives a more direct path towards these wetlands in the rear. Great. Thank you.

J

Along those same lines, I was wondering I usually don't ask about mulch, but because.

J

Of the grade of the land um I mean: can it be expected that this mulch could run? You know.

J

Into the wetlands or into that neighbor's property, and is that mulch does it meet.

J

Some kind of standards of the new hampshire landscape, association or.

J

What kind of mulch is it so that it doesn't destroy the wetlands or.

J

That sort of thing I kind of don't understand, I understand why you have mulch around trees, but.

J

Could you maybe just start with elucidating why you have mulch around these shrubs on a grade sure.

O

Yeah and if we can go to the next sheet, um so the mulching would just be down in this area.

O

Where the shrubs are- and you do have a good point so on a steep slope- you.

O

Do have to be careful actually in that green area, it really becomes much more level, um so.

O

Up above that would be where the trees are so that there wouldn't be mulch up there. But.

J

You have mulch around the trees too yeah, so just around the direct planting of the tree.

O

Oh, I see yeah and and that the mulching would be two to three inches thick.

O

And and it's there to to give stabilization and try to keep moisture and infiltration in the soil.

J

I'm still concerned that the the mulch be of an organic material that meets current standards.

J

For this sort of thing, so that it doesn't further pollute the wetlands, should we have a rain event.

J

That brings it, you know down in closer or into the wetlands, in particular sure so, in this corner area,.

O

There will be a silt sock kind of at the edge of construction also with the conservation commission.

O

They did recommend that we put notes on the plan for northeast organic farming association.

O

So we we could, we could add some notes that the mulching has to be native.

O

Organic non-invasive, you know, but it's a very small amount of mulch.

O

And it shouldn't shouldn't, have any impact on the wetlands.

J

Well, what is the square feet area of that green area? Approximately, like yeah.

J

I see it in the conservation commission stipulations that you will follow. Nofa.

J

Standards for land care management, so maybe that does cover this yeah.

O

And that that green area is about 400 square feet, 400, okay, okay, thank you.

A

Yes, jim uh yeah, mr ross, um I'm curious as to you mentioned that uh portion of.

G

Dpw had a large say in the location of this um outfall. The underdrain yes, but is, is all.

G

Private utilities on this property correct: is there any city owned assets um so for this.

O

Parcel there, the house will tie into city sewer and water, okay, all right yeah, so that.

G

Makes sense why they have particulars about where it discharges.

G

So the owner really didn't have a choice of where they can put this drain. Then no, okay, thanks.

A

Is the drain just for the foundation or is it for the catch basin? That's under the deck as well.

O

Yeah, so that that drain um collects uh all the drainage.

O

So foundation drain uh there's an under drain under the pervious pavers for the driveway.

A

But you're not putting more water off-site post development than you are.

A

Redevelopment, uh no there's actually a decrease.

O

In the rate of runoff, um you know because there's so many measures on this site with uh the rain.

O

Garden with the pervious pavers, with infiltration areas, you can see the rain gardens just rain.

A

Gardens in a different spot, so that's why I was wondering what was going into this location.

A

Any other questions for the applicants.

A

There being none, I will open up the public hearing.

A

Public hearings open anybody wish to speak too far against this application.

A

Is anybody on zoom there is, and we have somebody here as well: okay,.

A

Ma'am, you stepped up first.

P

Good evening, chairman members of the board, I'm judy pope I'm the owner.

P

Of the house, that's downstream off of the green corner, so a little history.

P

Going back april of 2020 was the very first meeting for combining the slot, which led.

P

To the creation of the address 11 fletcher street, with the stipulation that, before any.

P

Building permit can be issued that there needed to be a runoff and drainage plan that was approved by.

P

Dpw and the planning board, those original owners consequently sold the house through the or the.

P

Lot to the chances and that stipulation carried forward. So thank you because I.

P

Have a vested interest in not having additional water come down to my property, the for anybody.

P

That was on the board back in in april 2020. I think we showed that we have very high visible.

P

Water tables, when there are significant storms because of the way the drainage is there comes.

P

Down through the center of my property, there is a culvert that goes underneath benson street.

P

To the other side, where there's an open, swale- or I think you call it a natural swale.

P

That hits um over to the wetlands so when that gets backed up dpw gets calls because we're we're.

P

Going underwater so that's probably part of the reason they had a vested interest in.

P

Where this drainage went so again, I appreciate you carrying that forward.

P

And I appreciate that we're going to have this plan in place, my questions are just around to.

P

Having maybe the same kind of stipulation that, if something changes again with building that this.

P

Approval of uh because there was a original house plan that the first owners had that has changed.

P

With a, I understand, or, I believe, has changed with the next owners who followed through and got this.

P

Wonderful plan put in place, so I would say that I would ask that in the event the.

P

Lot sells again before this house is built that that stipulation please carry forward.

P

Also, just kind of like you know, kind of safety measures for myself what if the house gets framed.

P

But construction stops and the drainage hasn't been put in place now. There's this significant.

P

Pitch that we have on that lot with water coming down downhill to my lot. Additionally,.

P

You know what, if the design of the house changes during the uh the construction and the collection.

P

Area as a raid garden, I think it is and- and this there's roofing that changes that could.

P

Perhaps change the location of that? What measures are in place to make sure that this drainage plan.

P

Follows suit and then also what measures are in place to make sure that this gets fully executed.

P

Upon you know, obviously a vested interest. My house is a hundred years old, it does have a sump and a.

P

Pump and um for the 10 years that I live there, I rent it out now the the sump is a place where.

P

Cobwebs and spiders lived only, and it was always dry now that the trees are down. um You start to.

P

See a difference in in water table and and the sun, the pump actually has to be activated down again.

P

So, like also the other thing with the way benson street, is it crowns right in the center.

P

So we get all the water that comes down. Sims ave turns the corner and flows down.

P

um Benson street, so when you get that that crown you know, we just have streams on either side and.

P

You know pool's in my driveway. Well sometimes you need boots.

A

Thank you. Are you, I'm sorry. Are you at 66, vincent 66 guys? Thank you. I see it here.

A

Anybody else we should speak too for or against.

D

I'm angela lambert, I'm actually at 65 benson, so I'm at the bottom. I get all the water.

D

That she doesn't get it all comes to me. I get the culvert, so I want to say thank mr ross. It.

D

Sounds like they've got a great plan in place and it sounds like this might actually help us. We just.

D

Judy- and I just both are like- we just want to make sure it doesn't make our water worse, because when they did take all those trees down, because it is a sloped hill.

D

um The uh you know that was our concern at the meeting two years ago was that we just.

D

Don't want to have more water because when the culvert gets filled, if it's I don't know,.

D

Somebody blocks it or something it our are. The culvert can like raise to street level and dpw.

D

Does know us well because of that issue you know we've called them and said we can't the water's.

D

Flowing over into the street because we get it all so it just sounds like this is a plan that.

D

Might help us we just want to make sure it's not going to make things worse. So thank you. Thank you.

O

um If I could address and clarify some of the concerns, it's.

O

My understanding, if the planning board approves this tonight,.

O

Then we we'd also need a formal approval from dpw, which I'm assuming would refer to the plan as.

O

Presented with a date which would then go towards the building permit, so if any kind of house design.

O

Or drainage design changes it would kind of have to go back to square one, or at least the dpw.

O

For this thorough review, so I don't know that's the case. Is that so it's my understanding that.

K

Public works has reviewed it if there would be. If the house we could make that a stipulation. It's.

K

Not currently stipulation, and so that would not be typical, not for the building permit. So unless.

K

I don't believe there's that is part of the process for a single family structure. It is kind.

K

Of unusual for public works to review a drainage plan for a single family structure, in this case.

K

They did if it was a stipulation that, should the um plan change from what was approved, that.

K

It would require additional public works review that certainly can be stipulation of this board.

K

But I don't believe- and it's not certainly I don't see it in stipulations- that it would be.

K

Something that would is typically not required and uh it wouldn't be required unless you ask, for it.

A

We have chris scarlett on zoom.

D

Hello, this is uh chris gallet uh owner of ten fletcher across the street, uh I'm speaking in.

D

Favor of the plan presented tonight, it looks like they've done all their research and have really.

L

Taken into consideration uh the concerns presented for the broaddricks for the previous owners.

A

A

Is there anybody else on zoom or here that would like to speak too, for against this application.

A

Seeing now I'm going to close the public hearing open hearing is closed. Mr chair I'd make a motion.

B

That we vote to find the application meets the criteria set. Fourth and 10.1017.50 and.

B

To grant the initial use permit with the following stipulations: that they follow the nofa standards.

B

As written and that, if there are any changes to the structure on the property, that should.

B

Possibly change drainage that it goes back for a dpw review to make.

B

Sure it stays consistent with our approval. Second,.

A

I think that was explained, but if you'd like to explain it further uh yeah I mean I remember two.

B

Years ago, when this first came to us and all of the concerns that were there, which is one of the.

B

Reasons why I asked a little bit further about the drainage. I think dpw has done a really good.

B

Job of trying to really create almost a rock drain french drain as what I've always called them kind.

B

Of scenario where it will aim all of the water going into set location, so I trust the engineers.

B

Have done their due diligence and I think it's a good plan. We just want to make sure it stays there.

A

Thank you any other, yes jim. I was wondering if there's a way that we can address one of the.

G

Speaker's concerns about um say, the project's half built and the drainage is not constructed, and so.

G

They have this, you know half-built situation and a drainage problem is, can we bond this or somehow.

G

Is there surety that once they start building that it will be completed, so I typically would.

K

Not recommend bonding for the type this type of private and for usually we bond for public.

K

Infrastructure to ensure that public health safety are are met, should the project not be finished, but.

K

For a private site, we might require that the site be stabilized during the construction period.

K

You know with silk, fencing and silt socks and the, and I know that the applicant's representative did.

K

Speak to that, uh it certainly is something that if it does arise- and we do often get calls, we.

K

Would go out to the site and require that they go ahead and stabilize the site that could be.

K

Requirement that they take adequate provisions to stabilize the site during the construction period.

K

And it should there be any questions raised to that. We often go out to double check sites so that.

K

Would be a stipulation that could be also added if they have not already addressed that fully.

G

Yeah, I understand that bonding would be very unusual for private site. I just didn't know if.

G

You know worst case scenario: you have a half built abandoned, framed up house and.

G

Could be years and but if you think that can be addressed.

G

Without bonding, then I'll go with that, I think it could be that you know that the they take.

K

Adequate provisions to stabilize the site during the construction period, and I think that would be.

K

A more appropriate way of addressing the worst care scenario happened about three hours ago.

A

Yes, yeah um along the topic of stabilization, given that what we just heard from.

J

Two neighbors about you know the increase in water flow towards their houses, given the slope.

J

Given the fact that they've taken so many trees down, I'm wondering if we can stipulate that.

J

The plantings will be bigger than I mean they're saying that the circumference, if that's what c.

J

Is is 3 to 3.5 inches for these maple trees etc. So, in order to like be able to to take root to to.

J

Stabilize that land faster can we stipula stipulate that bigger size plantings occur.

A

I, if I can speak to that, we could, it is a single-family residence and the engineering.

A

Calculations that have been done aren't relying on those trees taking any of that water. So I think it.

A

Would be a burdensome condition, I mean so just for clarification. Are you saying that this drain alone.

J

With well not even with the shrubs, because shrubs won't have grown, but the drain alone.

J

Should prevent that kind of rushing of water as soon as that's put in the side to stabilize.

A

The the question that, as planning director was saying is the site is opened up for.

A

Construction and there's no vegetation at all on it, and it's that's when you have to have.

A

Protections in place to for runoff.

J

It's just that a lot you know some of this problem was caused by taking down all of these trees to.

J

Begin with, but yes I understand that you know this drainage is probably very well designed, etc, but.

J

I mean aesthetically in every other, which way, including stabilizing.

J

A slope it seems to me like we might want to stipulate bigger trees.

J

I mean it's 3.5 inches circumference. Couldn't we just stipulate? Well, I don't, I don't know see.

J

Engineering-Wise, landscape engineering-wise. I don't know what size we would stipulate.

J

That would grow at a good rate that would really help stabilize that the runoff from that land.

J

I don't mean for it to be onerous, but I just that's my comment.

A

Well, thank you any other discussion.

A

Suggestions, yes, um I'd be willing, as the maker of the motion to add in a.

B

Third stipulation that um the owners maintain stabilization of the site during construction.

B

And that should cure all our issues, there's a second okay with that I forget who seconded it.

I

It's great yeah, sorry, okay, we have a revised motion revised. Second, any other discussion.

A

All those in favor aye, aye aye, opposed you are approved.

A

We have a public hearing request of tom and angela mita as owners and applicants for property at 81.

A

Taft road requesting a wetland conditions permit approval under 10 10 17 and the zoning ordinance.

A

For 17 square feet of permanent disturbance to the buffer area, the construction of an expansion.

A

To the existing structure, this property is on assessors map, 247 lot 87 and lies in the single.

A

Residence srb district who's here to speak to this application, hello members of the board, my name.

Q

Is dave secalone? I am the general contractor on the project and I'm also a hydrogeologist.

Q

uh We had a land use application in for this. The addition at tom and angela maida's house.

Q

The overall footprint is 14 by about 17 and a half feet. We were in front of the conservation.

Q

Commission last month, where uh they, I guess, was the formal term did they recommend approval.

Q

Two stipulations um that would follow the new england, organic farmer, standards and.

Q

Put some wetland buffer plantings along the edge of the foundation the way the addition.

Q

Is situated, it is 17 square feet that will be impacting the 100 foot wetland buffer.

Q

That originates from the north side of elwynn road. So it's a fairly small impact at 17 square feet.

A

Any questions the applicant.

F

Yes, I have one chairman. Thank you. um The second stipulation add additional wetland buffer.

F

Plantings um just curious what your thoughts are as far as additional plantings to be added.

Q

This year, tom and angela, they actually have foundation plantings around pretty much the.

Q

Entire perimeter of the house at this point the way the addition's situated on that north side.

Q

It'll continue. It would be logical to just continue that foundation. Planting.

Q

Row right down along the footprint of the addition, so uh that the small and I guess when you're.

Q

Looking at it, the little jog out towards ellen is just a small gable detail. We actually kind of.

Q

Situated that to bifurcate the wetland buffer, so essentially only the water on that easterly side.

Q

Goes to that corner, so you know you were talking in a three inch: rainstorm approximately like 30.

Q

Gallons of water running into that corner, I mean we, we backfill from the footings up with crushed.

Q

Stone washed stone, so I mean the void space and that alone would be more than substantial. By, like.

Q

A factor of three to handle all the water coming off that roof line at that portion.

Q

So any additional wetland buffer planting, I think, would do more than be more than adequate to handle.

Q

Any water running off that building. Okay. Thank you. uh Just one comment. um Vice chair clark, guy.

K

After this was published, and it wasn't part of the stipulation I did speak with peter britts, who said.

K

That they anticipate reviewing those additional plantings. I have it in my notes that they.

K

It'll be subject to our environmental planner review of those as well, so like we can.

K

You know amend that to make sure, but that was our intention that that actually be subject to staff.

K

Review I appreciate the explanation, but certainly there will be staff verification of that as well.

Q

Can I ask question um with that process? Is that would that be something that I guess we.

Q

Get communicated during the building permit review what they're going to require. So when you submit.

K

For your building permit and you have your plans, you would go ahead and update the plans and then.

K

We would, what would happen is that our development compliance review would have would take those.

K

Over and make sure that they are okay per our environmental planner they'll take a look at those.

K

Okay, like the types of plants, are suitable, etc. Just update your plans as you submit those and.

K

Then they'll uh he'll just verify great easy enough. Any other questions for the applicant.

A

I believe this is a public hearing. You know other questions, I'll open the public hearing.

A

Anybody here, war on zoom, let's just speak, 2 4 against this application.

A

Nobody on zoom.

A

Close button hearing, what's the pleasure of the board, mr chairman I'll, make a motion. We.

F

Vote to find that the application meets the criteria set forth in 10.10 17.50 and to grant.

F

The wetland conditional use permit with the following stipulations: 1.1 and 1.2. However, I'd.

F

Like to revise 1.2 to read the applica.

F

Applicant will add additional wetland buffer planting subject to staff review. Second,.

A

Would you like to explain, I think it's pretty self-explanatory sure I think the applicant.

F

Did a great job kind of explaining how they're going to take care of the second stipulation.

F

There, and also, once again, it's a pretty small impact to the actual wetland buffer with the.

F

The physical wetland actually being completely across on the other side of the intersection, so.

F

Anything that they do should help their small portion of the well and buffer.

A

uh Not related to this, but uh to me this is sort of an impact that we might have a.

A

Different set of criteria for for future, if we consider changes to the app the ordinance.

A

So just an aside any other discussion.

A

Motion, second, all those in favor aye.

A

Thank you thank you and I lost my place there. We are. We have a public hearing regarding first family revocable,.

A

Living trust is honor for property at zero petition drive requesting a wetland conditional.

A

Use permit approval under 10 10 17 of the designing ordinance to replace an existing.

A

Unfinished right-of-way with a new private road access to two lots, as well as installation of.

A

Stormwater treatment, infrastructure and wetland buffer plantings, which will result in 1738 square.

A

Feet of temporary impact and 42 83 square feet of permanent impact of the weight loss buffer.

A

The property is on assessors map, 283 lot one and lies in the single residence. A sra district.

A

Who's here to speak to this application good evening, uh mike garappy uh with garappy planning.

R

Consultants uh and kevin baum is here uh uh to assist uh if needed. um We were before this.

R

Board and beverly, if you want to jump in at any time, but we were before the board in february of.

R

2021 for this same application, we've been working diligently with planning staff and with the legal.

R

Department to finalize the approvals for this project and the unknowingly, our error, the the.

R

Timeline got away from us and the clock expired on the conditional use permit. I know you have the.

R

Extension request on next on your agenda to deal with extending our subdivision approval.

R

As well, but so this is essentially a reapproval of a conditional use permit for the road. The proposed.

R

Road impacts we have our des permit for the prime wetland buffer impacts, we're not actually.

R

Impacting any wetlands themselves, just the prime wetland buffer, uh we have conservation, commission.

R

uh Recommendation to approve the cup, and um if you want a just brief rundown of what we're actually.

R

Doing I can do that if you're familiar so patricia drive, um formerly patricia drive. I suppose we can.

R

Call it now right off martha terrace, which is off of ocean road. um It is a former paper street.

R

I hesitate on what to call it, but it is an actual roadway. There's road, there's pavement, there's.

R

Drainage there's catch basins in the in the street. It's a small cul-de-sac configuration right now.

R

That accesses the parcel that we have ownership of and we did receive, planning board approval and.

R

For both the conditional use permit for the basically rebuilding the road, that's there now, but.

R

Not quite as wide it's about 24 feet of pavement now it's all grown over with grass and.

R

It's breaking up it's in rather poor conditions, so we're basically going to remove.

R

The existing asphalt and repave it with an 18-foot, wide private roadway and I think, we're.

R

There at least, I hope we're there beverly so so I don't know if I can answer any questions, but it's.

R

Essentially, a reapproval and it's our only access to the parcel. uh So we believe we meet all the.

R

Requirements for granting the cup- and I would answer any questions for you.

A

Any questions on the applicant since it's the first time I saw it um fire department.

C

Everybody's happy with it yeah. This is all gone vetted through tack, everybody's happy.

R

Happy may not be the right word, but everyone's. So it's going to be a shared shared road by the.

C

Two eventual houses, perhaps at the end of the road, yes and there's going to be some sort of.

C

A maintenance agreement that kind of thing the road maintenance agreement already been drafted.

R

I think already approved by legal and in the in the planning department, everything's, sort of ready.

R

I think at this point now to be finalized, so I feel like owe it to to mike to say.

K

That he narrowly missed the extension submittal date, but those are the rules.

K

And so he was required to go through the process again, so that won't happen again. For me.

R

Yeah, I don't think it will, because you know that I mean to keep that rule, not yourself.

G

um This probably must have some type of interesting history, um because you're right.

G

It's been paved, it's crumbling, it's overgrown, so at some point in the distant past, this was set up.

G

To be developed and then it just stopped, and so does this private road just only serve the lots.

G

You're proposing here that is correct, yeah and and in the abutting lot it's lot 10 um on the tax map.

R

So it does there's a driveway, that's off of the of this roadway that access has an existing home.

R

Okay, so that's how it's currently being used correct for one property well for two properties.

R

um And then the planning board did approve uh the two lot subdivision, so it will ultimately.

R

Be three properties that will be utilizing the roadway there was an old plan. I think it was.

R

I want to say it was in the late 60s approved um that, and there was a future connection. um Yeah.

R

I'm not sure if you can't really see it on the locust, but this patricia drive. um I'm gonna get.

R

This right, so this this cul-de-sac was sort of a phase one construction. It was intended to continue.

R

Through the abutting parcels and then connect back out to patricia drive, which is out on this side of.

R

Martha terrace: that's why it's shown as patricia drive on your tax maps and things of that nature.

G

So you think this might go back to the late 60s. I believe it was sometime in.

K

We did look at the original plot and not to jump ahead, but this has a companion document. That's.

K

Coming up after this, we did not put them together. That is an extension request. uh He did get that in.

K

Before the deadline- but uh yes, we think that it was dedicated, but we have done our research and.

K

Never really accepted not fully constructed or maintained by the city, okay, and when this is.

G

Completed it will become a city street, it will not it'll be maintained as a private.

R

Sector. Okay, the reason I'm I didn't want to waste everyone's time talking about this, but it just.

G

The reason the history is important because it doesn't appear, you have much choice.

G

Of where you put this road, because it was an established private right-of-way from the mid.

G

60S and where you put pavement is pretty locked in, it is, and in fact it's locked in. For other reasons,.

R

Too, just environmental constraints with the prime wetland, so it sort of needs to go where it's going.

R

Good thanks any other questions of the applicant.

A

Being done, I opened a public hearing on this first part of this application.

A

Anybody here will speak too far against this application. Anybody on zoom.

A

Last call anybody here to speak to for against this application, we'll close the public hearing.

B

Mr chairman, I'd make emotionally vote to find the application meets criteria set forth and.

B

10.1017.50 and grant the wetland conditional use permit with the following 1.1 and 1.2 stipulations.

B

That are in the memo. Second, any discussion, I said a lot two years ago. I think I'm done.

A

Any other discussion: are you ready for a vote? All those in favor, aye, aye aye opposed none.

A

Well, make commercial use, permit is granted we now have. um This is not a public hearing correct.

K

It is an extension request that is not a request. Requests now also related to this property for.

A

Subdivision extension request, it's explained in your applications. The next set of plans quite.

A

A bit of history, a lot of staff and applicant time been spent on this. I know- and I know just.

A

A little tiny bit about it, but it's been you guys, have worked a lot work pretty hard on this.

A

One of the issues that came about the other day was just making sure that the plan would.

A

Have frontage for the lots and that's more labeling issue than anything else.

A

I think that's been addressed so you'd like to explain it yeah. I um we're, I think, we're.

R

Almost there, I think, we've added a couple final notes. I think the staff is recommending uh three.

R

Additional or at least a couple additional notes be added to the plot. um Actually, just one.

R

And um that's just about you know retaining rights for access over the roadway. um So I.

R

Think the notes have been added that that planning and legal were looking for. It was a long sort of.

R

Several month process that we've been going through to kind of figure out exactly how.

R

The notes and and the plats should should be shown for recordation, so I think we're there.

R

um And I think we just need that little additional time to get us to the final.

R

To get it to be recorded, we did, mr chairman, we didn't recommend one additional uh note. I think.

K

That actually, uh mr garyp has actually already sent an updated uh plan, but it's not part of.

K

Your packet that reflects this but update the call out note above private street to.

K

Read former patricia drive proposed, proposed private street, see right-of-way notes two and.

K

Three, where it currently reads, former patricia drive private right-of-way, easement and so we're.

K

Asking just for that correction so that it's clearly identified as a private street. We have.

R

Made that change on on the plans which we'll upload once we make the final edits as well.

A

Are you ready any questions about this? One.

A

We have our planning board our planning department recommendation. I think a motion that we vote to.

B

Grant the extension to the funding board approval for preliminary and final plot approval with the.

B

Included stipulations and anything else that the planning department spoke about.

A

And this will take us to next month right.

B

Nice any discussion, it's pretty short and sweet all those in favor all right.

R

Approved I'm free to go you're free to go.

G

Have fun? Thank you so much appreciate it have a great night.

A

Public involvement summary report.

C

So, look, if you don't mind coming up, I think art so I'd like to introduce- and I think he's perfectly.

K

Capable introducing himself as well uh lucas cowan is our summer intern uh student at the.

K

University of virginia he has worked really closely with staff in the public engagement.

K

Executing the public with the public involvement plan for the accessory dwelling units, which are.

K

The phase two amendments they'll be coming before this planning board late summer. uh We have uh I'll.

K

Let him go through uh all the components of that public involvement plan and the results so lucas.

S

uh Good evening my name is luke cowan and I'm an intern at the city planning office for the summer.

S

And this is a presentation on the public involvement summary report.

S

For accessory dwelling units next slide, please.

S

On april 13th, the land use committee transmitted the 2022 regulatory work plan to the city council.

S

For approval in the april 18 2022, regular meeting the city council approved the 2022.

S

Regulatory work plan, which included three phases code, cleanup accessory dwelling unit, amendments.

S

And incentive amendments with the primary objective of increasing workforce housing.

S

Phase one is zoning ordinance cleanups, which are currently being reviewed by the planning board.

S

Phase two are amendments to accessory dwelling unit regulations which are currently being drafted.

S

And phase three are amendments to city incentives and sent.

S

Incentives to promote the development of more workforce housing and this presentation.

S

Is focused on phase two amendments and public input we have received to date next slide. Please.

S

Here are the three steps for phase two public involvement, and today we will be primarily focused.

S

On steps one and two step, one was to conduct small focus group meetings over zoom with four groups.

S

Which included previous adu applicants, architects, engineers and neighborhood representatives.

S

Each group gave unique insights into the process of building adus and many significant quotes from.

S

These meetings will be included throughout this presentation. These focus group meetings were.

S

Conducted over the course of two weeks between the dates of june, 9th and june 15th, and then for the.

S

Next step, we conducted adu direct abutter surveys. We mailed the survey out to over 200 direct.

S

Abutters of adus and portsmouth on june 22nd and since then, we've received 27 responses. Five.

S

Of the 27 respondents were not aware of an adu near them, and we are aware that the sample size.

S

Is rather low, but with a response rate of over 10 percent. We would consider this a successful survey.

S

This survey was also very targeted towards residents who were directly impacted by adus.

S

The third step is public hearings and meetings and then for reference. Here's a map of 25 adus that.

S

Have pulled a building permit in the portsmouth area since 2017. you're, good uh yeah next time.

J

Excuse me: can you just repeat that last sentence uh yeah, so the.

S

Yeah that there was just a map on the slide, it was just a reference of so those.

S

Are 25 adus that have pulled the building permit in the portsmouth area since 2017.

S

And then yeah next slide.

S

We've determined six emerging themes from the input and data we have gathered.

S

Process navigational support is needed, dimensional relief is both an obstacle and.

S

A protection there is considerable cost and risk in the process, and this is a deterrent.

S

Regulations for adus need to be clear and implementable.

S

Foremost among abutters concerns are parking, short-term, rentals, neighborhood character and.

S

Buffering and separation and abutters were generally positive about 80 use next slide.

S

Adu applicants who participated in the focus group meeting described how complicated.

S

It was to navigate the various regulations. Participants indicated that the hardest part.

S

Was just knowing where to get started, there's no step-by-step process for how to get it done.

S

And some applicants hired attorneys or architects to help navigate the process further increasing.

S

The cost of an already expensive project, a member from the adu applicants, focus.

S

Group said that it's like hitting a fly ball to midfield while describing the process next slide.

S

Many architects from the focus group observed that because of portsmouth's tight development pattern.

S

Zoning relief was often needed. Setback relief in particular was often required.

S

For continued use of the backyard in many instances, the unit size limitations have.

S

Made the conversion from a garden cottage to a livable space, more challenging. We heard from.

S

The neighborhood representative focus group that privacy is important to them.

S

The current zoning ordinance provides protection when addressing the separation requirements.

S

And in most cases, the square footage maximums are the smallest possible. According to new hampshire.

S

State law, one portsmouth architect, stated that accessory building garages do not meet.

S

The standards for a living unit, the 600 square foot limitation- needs to be loosened next slide.

S

The architects and engineers who participated in the focus group meetings addressed the risk that.

S

Comes when applying for variances or modification focus group participants indicated that the cost.

S

Can run as high as twenty thousand dollars for land use approvals and approval is never.

S

Guaranteed this may deter potential applicants by making the process more expensive and not.

S

Guaranteeing the approval of a planned adu, one architect from the focus group when describing.

S

The difficulties of applying for an adu said that when we present the feasibility study.

S

And present the findings, people have a hard time moving forward with the uncertainties next slide.

S

The adu applicant focus group indicated that more clarity is needed in the zoning ordinance for.

S

Terms such as subordinate to the principle, structure and architecturally compatible.

S

Participants stated that these terms are not only very subjective but hard.

S

To define and therefore hard to interpret the terminology used should be clear and.

S

Specific, so everyone is able to understand and follow the zoning ordinance provided.

S

This is also important for a budder, so they can expect consistent application of the regulations.

S

A member from the neighborhood representative focus group stated that if this is going to be.

S

Rewritten the intent needs to be clearly addressed when describing the current zoning ordinance.

S

This is some of the data we have gathered from the adu direct, a butter survey.

S

The question asked here was of the following impacts:.

S

Which are you the most concerned about check the three that are most important.

S

60 63 percent of respondents identified short-term rentals as a concern, while 41 identified parking.

S

Next slide, the question asked here was: the city is thinking about allowing some adus to be approved.

S

Without planning board review or public hearing, if the project can meet some minimum standards,.

S

Which standards are most important to you? Please check for boxes below.

S

74 were concerned about buffering and separation.

S

70 were concerned with parking and 70 were concerned about neighborhood character next slide.

S

Survey respondents were given the chance to write about the positive or negative impacts of adus.

S

In their neighborhoods, 65 of the comments were neutral or positive, while 35 were negative. All of.

S

The comments are from respondents who were aware of adus in their neighborhoods. While we felt like.

S

It was important to note that many of the comments were positive. We believe that there is rich.

S

Information that can be provided from the negative comments as well. We chose to include a negative.

S

Comment that summarized the experience of those who identified negative impacts, the respondent.

S

Replied, it does not fit in the neighborhood towers over my property and lights shine in.

S

My backyard, I greatly regret writing a letter for my neighbor to help him along the process and then.

S

40 48 of the survey respondents would consider building an adu on their own property next slide.

S

In the architects focus group, one of the members stated that what accessory dwelling units are.

S

Really for single people and sometimes their partner, the minimum lot size has to be chopped.

S

In half or a third, the lot size requirements in place don't exist very often, you really have to.

S

Get lucky to have had that lot. For years this focus group member was describing one of the.

S

Biggest struggles with even getting started on an adu, which is the lot size requirement next slide.

S

In the adu applicants focus group, one of the members stated that.

S

If you really want to make this process work, you need to make it idiot-proof.

S

This member is describing what many others in that focus group described.

S

Which was the vague language and difficulty with the process of building an adult.

S

Thank you for listening and if you have any questions, feel free to ask and beverly, and I will do our best to answer.

A

Thank you, luke.

B

Good job luke, thank you are we discussing this yeah uh nice job, really nice job presenting.

M

um I think mine are more observations and there are so many different approaches here, but.

M

Down all the way at the bottom, it references seattle and having a pre-approved design.

M

That architects have already looked at and and supported, and then city then chimes in on.

M

And then it goes on to say that the term architecturally compatible requires professional.

M

Support- and that is subjective, which is very true and I think is also required. So, although I am for.

M

This push and movement. I would also suggest that portsmouth is very architecturally diverse in a.

M

Way so to prevent neighbors from hating each other. It may be best to not have something like that.

M

Because the approval process allows sort of that input process. Obviously that's why we're here.

M

But nonetheless, I think that one of the points up here had said.

M

The 300 square foot studio attached to our existing home for future ground floor living for.

M

Us in the future, until the time we are renting it out, that alone is worth its weight in gold.

M

Because that's how we help the aging population that we have here in portsmouth maintain their.

M

uh Livability and functionality, and just recently I came across a conversation where the guy is now.

M

Selling his house due to necessity because his he's now immobile so this future proof.

M

And kind of the versatility and adaptability is, I think, a point of emphasis for me.

M

Now I know that this also focuses quite a bit on the cost and I would say that if we can.

M

Streamline that, whether it's a public hearing process combined with a pre-approval checklist.

M

That may help uh remove some time. So then it not only takes it off our agendas here. In this.

M

Realm, but also uh helps the public, then understand the steps to get it, and I know that city staff is.

M

Already overwhelmed, but not like having somebody dedicated to that seems like the go-to answer.

M

um And I don't know how that is achieved. Can I add to that? Having worked in this town as a contractor.

C

He just hit. The last thing he said was that we needed liaison, because when you go to the city.

C

You hit um what's her name at the desk little lady, that just got an assistant at the building.

C

Department anyhow, but she she's like kind of dead, she could be there's a couple. She's working well.

C

The one that's been there forever. She was kind of like the go-to guiding the process for anything.

C

I'd ever did in the town, you know, including a waterfront historic, commit historic renovation.

C

And you never really had somebody to ask you had to figure out well, who am I supposed to pitch.

C

This question: to do you go, does this question go where and it could hit a whole bunch of different.

C

Departments- and this I know I know you guys- will clean it up because he made some great suggestions.

C

But then figure out a point of contact for the average civilian.

C

Who's trying to do this, and- and I agree with his comment about the the 600 square feet.

C

Because I have a wonderful 380 foot studio with a loft which there was some issue about the loft.

C

Rent that I rent very easily, because people like the minimalist type.

C

Size apartment it's popular now. I appreciate those comments. Thank you.

A

Miss jane yeah, I I have a couple of comments and some of them are more macro. Thank you very.

J

Much lucas, you did a great presentation. Thank you for doing all of this work.

J

I think, on behalf of the land use committee, so one of my comments is about.

J

What the stated goal is here for this: according to our materials, we're saying that the goal as set.

J

In the regulatory work plan, I believe, is to remove barriers and expand.

J

The number of eligible properties for adus and senior housing facilities.

J

And because that that goal is very general, it doesn't say to what extent it doesn't say.

J

To what density it doesn't talk about issues of infill that are really quite controversial.

J

As you walk the streets of portsmouth, and so I think that there needs to be clarity.

J

Bringing a goal around that topic more specifically into the master plan.

J

And otherwise, how do we know when we've achieved the goal? I mean to just have more to have lots.

J

More there's 35 of your 27 respondents saying that they feel very negatively actually about.

J

Their butters of adus and there were 24 who were neutral. So that means there's only 41.

J

Percent of your responding abutters, who are actually positive. So it's enough to like.

J

Take a pause take a moment, and I I feel strongly that the general public to the taxpayers of.

J

Portsmouth, you know should have a lot of say and that there should be further public conversations.

J

About what kind of density we are collectively trying to achieve? So that's my first comment.

J

My second one is about the process thus far, and I don't know who to direct this comment to I'm going.

J

To actually direct this question to you, chairman and you can decide where it goes, because.

J

I keep looking at this process and not seeing other than some comments.

J

The fact that we are now informed as a planning board how this is not actually subverting one.

J

Of the critical roles of planning boards, when you turn to the office of strategic initiatives.

J

Chapter three regulatory regulatory functions of the planning board on page eight, it says.

J

Regardless of how the zoning amendment is initiated, so once we get through this well, let me.

J

Let me outline what the process as I understand it is now from the materials we've been given. So.

J

The land use committee developed a 2022 regulatory work plan and sent it to the city council.

J

Which approved it, that is true. We have two members of the planning board on the land use committee.

J

That's a representation, you don't necessarily know how the individual members of the planning.

J

Board feel about anything in that regulatory work plan. Then the land use committee developed.

J

The public involvement plan- that's great, that I I I think the facilitated discussions are.

J

Good input, then they issue the public involvement, summary report, but it's not.

J

Clear to me that other than being informed that the planning board will have any opportunity.

J

I have specific suggestions about how I think we could get around some of the things that have been.

J

Mentioned in your report, I don't know that I have that that possibility of doing that now um then.

J

There's still this outstanding question for me, which will persist until I understand it.

J

About where and how the planning board gets to have role and input to develop.

J

Review and recommend changes in our our zoning or land use regulations.

J

Per this regulatory chapter of our guiding rsa, for which says that, regardless of how the zoning.

J

Amendment is initiated so all of these processes- fine, and there are ways that citizens can bring.

J

Their own initiation of a zoning amendment um forward, it must be voted on at a town meeting or.

J

In a manner prescribed in the municipal charter, in all three situations, the planning board must hold.

J

The planning board must hold a public hearing with prior notice, as provided in rsa 675-7.

J

After the public hearing, the planning board must, by vote, determine the final form of the ordinance.

J

Amendment or amendments to be presented to the voters if, after the public hearing the planning.

J

Board makes substantive changes to the proposed zoning word amendment. It must hold a second.

J

Public hearing, so I I want to make sure that we are on board with where the planning board.

J

Is involved in next steps toward the end that I just read from our regulatory guidance.

J

It's it's not clear to me what happens next here I mean these draft amendments are going.

J

To be presented to the city council, then somehow it comes back to the planning board.

J

Well, if I can it's already a draft amendment amendment by the time it.

J

Comes back to the planning board, so how is the planning board actually doing its core.

J

Work of drafting amendments and and presenting them as recommendation to the city council.

A

I've touched on this a little bit before, but to restate some of that and also to address your.

A

Points I hope, or if I'll try. First of all, if you have some specific ideas with regarding to some.

A

Of the issues luke raised in his presentation tonight is a good night to talk about those.

A

The statute that you're, citing most of the state of new hampshire, is towns, not cities and.

A

I've been on a town planning board versus a city planning board, it's very different and in a town.

A

The planning board has the only role in presenting zoning amendments to the voters. There's no other.

A

Way to do it, whether the petition has to go to the planning board planning board itself has to.

A

Go to the planning board, select them think it's a good idea. It has to go to the planning board.

A

Here, the planning board of its own volition can come up with a proposal for a zoning amendment or.

A

Luke could present something, or you know, members of the audience we can get a petition or the city.

A

Council can do it, it still comes to the planning board, but ultimately it doesn't go to the voters.

A

Until it goes to the council, the council actually goes through the process of presenting it in form.

A

Of hearings, and then the council votes on it. It's not a not a town, a city-wide vote on a zoning.

A

Ordinance, so it's a different process, but this is it's a parallel track, we're doing what we're.

A

Doing and I've talked about other things that this board could be doing. You know if this board.

A

Wants to jump in and look at other things like the master plan or parking regulations or other things.

A

I'm all for it, it's more work, more meetings, so we can do that. um This is something that was.

A

Identified by council as an important priority, and that's one of the things that the land use.

A

Committee has been doing sort of attempting to be a fast track if you will to get it here,.

A

For us to talk about and to see things now, when I'm listening to luke's presentation and andrew's.

A

Comments and your comments, I'm thinking things like this- could benefit a lot from some graphics.

A

A lot not just words but graphics in a proposal that makes it idiot proof so that the homeowners.

A

Can come in and say here's something we don't necessarily need a liaison officer.

A

For something, that's really simple, we've got something. That's you know it fits this checklist.

A

It looks like this thing on page four, those things have been presented to the public as a part of.

A

These public hearings that we're talking about, I think, there's a way to make a simple application.

A

Facilitated to fits the goals involves this board very much in creating those.

A

Those regulations and goes to the council for the final council action.

A

I hesitate, I mean it's easy to think that the council is trying to cut the planning.

A

Board out, I think the council is trying to augment the planning board with this part of.

A

Something they identified as something that has been it's needed, statewide, it's needed.

A

Nationwide, it's really hard, it's a difficult problem. Many jurisdictions are looking at it, so.

A

By all means, please, if you have ideas about how we can do it, let's do it together.

A

And not it's not a competition, so you know there are um other things if you.

A

Want to talk about as a part of this or related to it. Let's talk about them.

A

But I hope that helps a little bit. Mr chairman, if I can also add, I do think that part of the purpose.

K

Of the regulatory work plan is to help manage the staff workload we spend I'd say that 80 85.

K

90 of our time is with four boards. We have split agendas almost in every board, past few months.

K

Is to manage development review. This helped set a cadence for staff to and we have support with.

K

Luke this summer we also have some professional consultant support. These are labor and good public.

K

Outreach that I think that is being represented tonight is labor intensive. This started a couple.

K

Months ago, getting these meetings set up at the queued up questions working with public.

K

Information getting the survey out compiling the report, which is a beautiful report. If you didn't.

K

Get a chance to look at it, and so I think it's partly to help us manage our work plan because.

K

uh Regulatory amendments, they always seem small, but they are like every one of them ends up being.

K

Open heart surgery, it seems like they're intensive they're hard. We always think. Oh, this is a quick.

K

Fix this is easy. This is a cleanup, but it ends up being more intensive than that. So it is. These are.

K

Big big lifts done well with good public outreach. Good summary, good guidance for the community good.

K

We hope to bring a table that shows the amendments and how they were informed by.

K

What kinds of comments has you worked to refine these amendments, because that is your job is to.

K

Refine the amendments as they come to you, uh so that is a that is a very staff intensive.

K

Prospect- and that's I I hope, I'm not speaking a term, but I think that for me it's been.

K

Very helpful that the council establishes, through the city manager, the staff work plan.

D

B

um Just to add to that, so the whole point of bringing all this information to you.

B

Is if you do have ideas to get them to the land use community, because they're going to.

B

Or to staff, so they can bring them to us, because we are staff working on with the consultants of.

B

Red lines now based off of the information, that's come in, so the direction that we want them to go.

B

Is this information has been presented now, you'll be the third group. That's heard this information.

B

And and received it uh so we're gonna, look at the red lines which um once we feel like they're in a.

B

Motion to set them forward city council will get them to review and refer back to here and.

B

At the planning board level that will be when those red lines we can pick them apart change.

B

Them reveal them, we have, you can have a work session on them, we can and we have to have a.

B

Public hearing on them and then we make a vote of recommendation back to the city council, where.

B

They're reviewed again there's another public hearing, there's a first reading. The second reading.

B

Public hearing and a third reading before they actually get enacted, so there are many.

B

Steps to the review of every single ordinance that we work on so we're just trying to keep the.

B

Ball flowing, but keeping you involved as far as all the information that we are trying to gather.

B

From the public so that we have a good idea about where portsmouth sits. One of the questions that we.

B

Put out there to some of these groups were: do you read ordinances in other communities that.

B

Would be helpful to make ours better and I was shocked to hear that there aren't. There wasn't.

B

A single community anyone could point us to, and I thought that was very telling that clearly we.

B

Already have done a good job, but I think we could do a much better job. So I think that all of your.

B

Input is important in order for us to get this formulated and drafted so that it can be reviewed.

B

So submit them verbally tonight, if you want to think about it, write it down, you can send them.

B

All to the city staff and then they can put those all together. Jim then andrew then greg.

G

Luke, nice job never never gets old. Hearing that I bet anyway, um I have a question about the history.

G

The 80 ordinance started in 2017 is that true, yes, sir yeah and um about 60 have been approved.

S

um I think I think it's only been 31 since 2017. I've been approved. I thought 31 has been built.

G

Only 31 adus have been approved. Yes, and do you know how they've been built? There have been 25.

S

Those are the ones I show on the screen that have pulled the building permit. Okay, all right um and.

G

The other question I had is you mentioned the word uncertainty a lot as far as a drawback for.

G

The owners or anyone's involved is that financial uncertainty is it approval, uncertainty. I think.

S

It's both financial uncertainty and also approval uncertainty when applying for a.

S

Variance there's a risk that comes with that, and especially the architects mentioned how.

S

When they presented the feasibility studies to some of their.

S

Clients they just didn't, want to go through with the process because of both the risk and the cost.

G

But don't we have like an 80 or 90 95 approval rate for adus. um I'd have to double check that.

G

But it's it's high, it's uncertain, I can see on financial uncertainty, but the.

G

Having 90 approval rate is, is pretty it's pretty good odds. I would think yeah. Okay, thanks.

K

I think we had actually one that went for variance last last month and did not make it so I think.

K

Maybe there is a small uncertainty, although not as great, maybe as as some might think, but.

K

uh Given the cost maybe there, but we did hear that that was part of what we heard. It's also.

A

Perception versus reality when you're looking at a an ordinance that requires a lot of submission.

A

It's not a guarantee, it's, it seems risky to many people, even in ninety percent, seem frisky.

D

You've done yeah.

M

Yeah and I think even certainty aside, it's still very cost intensive time intensive.

M

And and a large undertaking to go through that, certainly if you're not familiar with how the.

M

Process works and you just get thrown into it and you're there. I have a lot of thoughts, but.

M

I think primarily the two highlights would be uh you don't want adu to become a workaround for.

M

Getting more square footage approved on your lot and then uh someone else moving. Are you selling.

M

The house with that additional square footage and then it becomes misconstrued and it's like.

M

Oh, we have an adu, but it's just really a lot more square footage and it's a master wing or whatever.

M

You know it ends up being so that that's a hurdle in my mind that we want to be aware of.

M

And then the second thing is uh need versus want, and so is it a need because of mobility issues or.

M

I mean there are probably a couple but mobility issues come to mind.

M

Only because of the average age here in town and whatnot, so is it a need because of that or is.

M

It a want because of the income, and so I feel as though that has an influence where that influence.

M

Lies within this approval process that we're discussing here tonight I don't know quite yet.

M

But to me that may have an impact, because um if someone is just wanting to build an additional.

M

400 square feet on their home and then they decide that they are going to collect a 1500 check. Every.

M

Month, I don't know if that stands out in my mind as much as a mobility issue, much like the.

M

300 square foot studio that someone is building on because they want to be living in the house.

M

For the duration of their life, so I don't know quite how that balances out or if it does at all.

M

So I'm still trying to determine that, among some other things so just thoughts great.

C

A lot of very complex issues and, and this report is fantastic.

C

We just need to take it apart and pick direction theme.

C

You know take it down from 100 points to 10 that we can work with, um but.

C

I find it interesting that they spent a lot of time on a public involvement summer report on this.

C

Which is a very important issue, but we didn't have this on, like the building height issue,.

C

And this other stuff that we're trying to chew on that seems to have been half baked when we got it.

C

This type of information talking to the abutters talking to developers talking to people that are.

C

Either for or against all the changes we're trying to make without a whole lot of hard input would.

C

Have this is the framework this is the. This is a great piece to start. The changes for the adu.

C

Zoning changes and it kind of feels like we. If we would have had this, it would have given us a.

C

Good starting point as to: why are we trying to address the other stuff we're addressing.

C

This is a wonderful starting point. Thank you for whoever cooked it up it's. This is. This is.

C

This is great work and he did a good job and whoever told him to do it did a good job. So.

C

Thank you. No, this will be something we can work from. Yeah jane made a good point that.

A

It's a technical question that actually came to my mind when you made the point about master plan.

A

And it ties into what you were just saying: the the other zoning amendments that we're talking about.

A

Are directly tied to the master plan process, so there was a master plan process that.

A

Created the maps that are now being amended and they're not being created anew, that's the.

A

Difference so the reason that um I would challenge they, you know, I you, like the term half-baked.

A

Sorry, you know they needed work. You know if all this stuff is complicated as as planning as.

A

Several people said the stuff is complicated. We have to get it right and.

A

uh That's why we have these meetings to talk about it. So that's the big difference, though the.

A

The other amendments are following the master plan process. I don't know that the master plan provides.

A

The right foundation for what we're doing with the edu do we need to consider that we did pull.

K

All the city, council goals and master plan goals. As part of that original, you may recall how they.

K

Aligned with all the master plan- and um so you got the foundation there- we were talking about all of.

B

Those about the same time frame, if I remember, but I think the master plan was actually done.

B

Just after we finished the ad use the original adu ordinances as it sits today, yeah. If I remember.

B

Correctly, I'm sorry jane, you had your hand yeah. It is back to the master plan because I think I.

J

Don't know when I look at the master plan and I was involved with the master plan, so I I'm I'm.

J

Complaining about you know things that are missing in something that I looked at and reviewed.

J

I I don't see enough specificity about these questions of density, because, as a planning.

J

Board when we see adu by adu and we have like our 90 approval rating, we can be. You know happy about.

J

That but we're looking at it project by project and we're not looking at the cumulative effect.

J

We're not looking at questions about managing growth, but certainly adu, and that type of infill.

J

And other types of infill, it's it's it's part of it. It's not the whole bucket, you know, should be.

J

Looked at strategically about how much density is acceptable is needed because of housing issues and.

J

Is acceptable to the people who are paying taxes in this town and I don't think it's in our master.

J

Plan, I think it's a real priority, for I think it's the planning board. Looking at that issue.

J

Or you know suggesting a revised master plan that includes more specificity, more detail, a clearer.

J

Measurable objective, around density, you know some rate of growth, I don't know I don't. I don't know.

J

Specifically, what it would be, but it's hard to find in between the pages of our current master.

J

Plan, um I also really wanted to ask how the people who were chosen for respondents, participants.

J

How they were chosen, I mean you, have there are 40 total and then you have another group of 27 of.

J

Butters, I believe who participated because you said you had that ten percent in the 40 you have.

J

Eight engineers, you have seven architects, you have ten applicants for adus different types of adus.

J

And five neighborhood representatives, so I'm wondering how those specific 40 people.

J

Which is not a huge denominator, how they were chosen, and then I have a comment about how I think.

J

It can be improved in terms of being able to apply for adus, but I wanted to ask that first.

J

Yeah luke, would you like to yes yeah, I actually I I came on right as we were doing the uh as we.

S

Were starting the zoom meeting, so I I didn't really. I went to the zoom meetings, but that.

S

Was my first round? Okay, sorry, we had already put those together yeah added more of the uh I'm happy.

S

To take that one on so we for, like engineers and architects, we started to put together a list of.

B

People who come before these before these boards all the time so we're trying to look at a cross.

B

Section of ones that are I'll, say, repeat: customers, they're engineers and architects who end up before.

B

You know the htc and all these different boards, because we know they deal with our specific.

B

Zoning a lot so in that respect, that's who we were looking at. um We looked to the land use committee.

B

To actually give us recommendations on people in the community as well uh for the abutters that was.

B

Sent to every a butter, um so every butter of an existing one, the uh neighborhood ones. I actually.

B

Went to the citywide neighborhood committee and asked to reach out to their contact list, which.

B

Really only gave me one or two, so we ended up just sort of by word of mouth trying to ask.

B

Who you know we're looking for different people in different neighborhoods that are somewhat.

B

Outspoken, as far as you know being involved, and so we tried to create a list of people that we knew.

B

Are involved and pay attention and um would be a valued asset and knowing there a specific.

B

Neighborhood in the city, so that's how that all came together was that all of them did. I miss any.

K

Republicans, applicants right. We, we also wanted to take a cross. Thank you. I forgot.

B

About applicants themselves, we want to take a cross-section of people who have.

B

Applied so we drew up a list of just some garden cottages, some detached and some attached adus.

B

We were trying to keep the numbers to 10 or under uh just because, if you have too many.

B

People in those groups, when you're going through a lot of questions, it can become too much and.

B

In some cases people just didn't get back to us, so it was the ones that could make it and.

B

Make the time frame that we were trying to set these up in like a two week period of time, so.

J

Thanks and then um in terms of you know what I could see happening going forward.

J

Is I I am it's really sad to hear that you know so many of the respondents, particularly abutters, are.

J

Concerned about things like short-term rentals, you know like situations getting out of control like.

J

The one the one, a butter who said you know I actually helped you know the application.

J

Of my neighbor and now I've got noise and I've got traffic and I've got like that's obviously,.

J

We don't want that kind of situation and we don't want it repeated throughout portsmouth.

J

I don't know how we address that issue. I am just really concerned about it as we. You know.

J

Continue to find applications for adus, but if we are really trying to increase ada adu applications.

J

By the average citizen, the average layperson, who should not have to require particularly a lawyer.

J

To you know, fill out paperwork to in application. I mean I, I don't see any reason why we can't create.

J

A toolkit that that includes the checklist that someone mentioned about what needs to be included.

J

For a complete application also includes the steps that one will go through but includes in a set.

J

Instructions, along with paperwork that can be filled out and can make it really simple.

J

For a home owner to you know make this application. The architectural piece is another question and I.

J

Think each homeowner will have to answer that for themselves. I hadn't realized before the report.

J

Which is really interesting that apparently there are architectural designs available online. I guess.

J

You can google for anything um online, and so they could elect to adopt that or the applicant can.

J

Seek architectural assistance in some in some way and I'm sorry that there's that cost to it.

J

But I don't, I don't think that we should have such an onerous task for application. I think there is.

J

A way to very simplify it, put the paperwork in order, have instructions for each sheet.

J

And be able to have the average citizen be able to complete.

J

Application to their city boards without the without the need or the the.

J

People think that there's a need that they have a lawyer for this. I think that's, absolutely terrible.

J

And that can be avoided. I think that's all. I have to say right now, joe um I've been concerned.

N

In the past that that sometimes the the edu, it gets villainized for a lot of unfair reasons.

N

The comments that I saw from the negative comment that I saw had nothing whatsoever to do with noise.

N

It was aesthetic really, it said that it towered and there was lights. I didn't see anything in.

N

That comment about parking or noise at all, um and I've spoken to people that do live next to an adu.

N

And, and and also short-term rentals into them, and to myself as a landlord, the bigger concern.

N

Is if you sign a one-year lease for a wild tenant that has parties every night, I mean a short-term.

N

It so this fear that something crazy is going to happen next door to you.

N

For you know a short period of time, but why isn't there such a concern for something crazy happening.

N

For years lisa, it's kind of a strange argument, but also um when we we talk about the need for, for.

N

Adus, my gosh, you you with you know whether it's in and I'm speaking from from personal experience.

N

Whether it's an aging parent or the need for a live-in care for a parent or another or another.

N

Family member, whether it's for us a child going to college or or the need, is very real and.

N

I also am very sensitive to the fact when we hear people say or you know, sometimes people just want.

N

To make money well, there's nothing wrong with making money, there's nothing wrong with generating.

N

Income from an adu to pay your taxes and to pay your bills and so forth, I think that's one of the.

N

Reasons why why the adu was created? It was, it was, there's a need to generate income specifically for.

N

You know, maybe people who have a you know burden some. You know the tax bills are getting larger.

N

And so forth, and we don't want to relocate people out of their homes. I'm just very concerned about.

N

um When I, when I I sense, sometimes that that the existence of adus gets gets villainized, and I just.

N

I don't think it's. I think we do need to simplify the process. There's no question about it, but.

N

But um this is a. This is a positive thing. In my opinion, I have some thoughts but corey had.

A

His hand up yeah just I'll, keep it brief. You know one thing I think we just want to.

F

Keep and keep in mind and in context when we're reviewing all these um the edus and coming up with.

F

um Amendments is that you know we get. We got to keep property rights in mind. um Certainly you.

F

Know there's a lot of there's a lot of instances when someone could buy a relatively small house.

F

Demo, that house quadruple the size of the house and the butters have no input whatsoever. They're.

F

Completely within the zoning and everything else that may be way more impactful than one.

F

Of these small 600 square foot edus going in, um and so I think we just have to keep in mind that.

F

You know abutters certainly provide a valuable input, great input. You know, I think everybody.

F

Deserves the right to you know be heard, but at the same time it is property rights and you know.

F

People have the right to do um what they choose with the property as long as it's.

F

In accordance with the applicable zoning and laws and everything else so trying to you know.

F

Get that balance and the fact that you know we're talking about homeowners residents. It's not like.

F

We're talking about um you know huge developments that you know that are have the financial backing.

F

To um to do this, and you know, have all the everything else to uh to pull off. You know very.

F

Very uh you know when we, when we apply various stipulations, or we have um other criteria that.

F

They have to meet and have to abide by, or you know, given trade and that sort of thing I mean.

F

Once again, well that we all saw one of the biggest hurdles here is, uh is financials so.

B

um I just like to remind everyone that we are actually required under state law to have.

B

Attached adus right, so we can't not create that density. Whether we wanted to or not we're required.

B

We either had to accept the model that they gave us or we could accept it and make some changes. We.

B

Did uh the detached edu's in the garden cottages, because we thought based off of our makeup of.

B

Our city, that that might be a good thing to try to help. So I'm all on board with trying to streamline.

B

This and make it easier that was part of getting this information and making sure we're going in.

B

The right direction, so one of the suggestions um I'd made was that if you're gonna do an attached.

B

Adu within your footprint, like nothing in the outside of your house, changes you have enough.

B

Parking then you should be able to do that based off of a checklist, and I think that we've also.

B

Talked about at land use whether or not we could actually put together a handbook of some sort. So.

B

That there was the you want, an edu here's. You know how to do it kind of thing so that it does.

B

Make it easier because we were astounded when I I actually was the moderator for one of the groups.

B

When they told us that they're telling some people it's 20 to 30 000 in order to do that, I mean I.

B

Almost fell off my seat, I was sitting down so um that and really that's why we wanted to get this.

B

Information, so that we could really make these changes, so um I value everyone I think we'll make.

K

The handbook luke's christmas project come on. Don't you have some time when you're at college.

A

Well, I think we've got a couple of options here.

A

The land use committee is working on this, as we've heard, and it's going to come back here and.

A

There'll be a red line for us to work on now. Some people may want to work on it before that. I think.

A

That might be premature. You know it's going to create sort of a two competing teams. If you will.

A

Might be better to build from the work that is being put together. But I'm.

A

Open to discussion before it gets too much later.

A

I was trying to get us out of here before too late tonight. Andrew, are we able to sit.

M

In on the land use commission, of course it's open to the public and we take people comment.

M

Is that is that preferable to just writing in and sending it to you I'd say it doesn't matter either.

B

Way, keep in mind that there are certainly some things that I think are, as we pointed out, narrow.

B

This down to some things that we can do more quickly than others. So when you talk about the.

B

Pre-Approved plans that was brought up to us about seattle. I actually went out and looked at those.

B

I don't think it's impossible to do here, but I think we need to do a lot more research before.

B

Something like that gets enacted 100, and so it's not an idea that will go away, but it's not an idea.

B

That's probably going to be part of this group right. I think there are some things that are.

B

Longer term changes and some things that are shorter term changes so.

B

That's what we're trying to work through now, what can we sort of more easily implement and see how.

B

Effective how effective it can be right away. So if there's things you see or ideas about.

B

How we can change this that gets to that goal, then please tell us, I don't care how you do it, whether.

B

It's at the public hearing, whether it's right now, whether it's written submitted to the city.

B

Get them to us, because we are continuing to look at this. The land use committee.

B

Will be hopefully reviewing these on august 5th. That's the next meeting.

G

I was struck by, I think. Council monroe said that when you looked around other new hampshire cities,.

G

And towns for guidance and you came up empty. No. We asked the architects and engineers if they.

B

Could give us other towns they've worked in using their adu zoning, whether or not there were models.

B

That were better or more easily used or better than what ours was and, and we got a a big zero. So.

G

The take take back there, I'm sorry, the takeaway is that.

G

There's nothing better out there to work off of correct that was directly quoted from architects.

B

In the group that I moderated yeah that we pretty much lead the way, so our rules are the best yep.

B

That's what they tell them. I can only tell you what they told me. It's all recorded, I'm not.

B

Lying about this, I I was in on more 80 years. We asked and I asked I asked more than once.

D

And even even outside of the state, you know: okay, how about maine. You know I asked about maine too.

A

And beverly and I just got a proposed amendment for new market or new england,.

A

I haven't had a chance to review it yet, but it's it's a proposal so.

G

um Brave new world- I guess.

B

I just want to compliment the city on doing a good job.

D

Thanks very much luke. Thank you luke. Thank you. So much.

A

So, are we good with letting this proceed through the land use committee or not.

A

I'm not by the way I'm not advocating to have the land use committee do all.

A

The zoning amendments forever and all time, that's not at all what I'm saying.

A

I'm suggesting that it's a special circumstance and it seems to be working so for that purpose.

A

Andrew I'll, be very brief, so my my thought about proceeding to the landings committee I think goes.

M

Back to like the diversity of our neighborhoods in portsmouth, because I go to like tucker's cove.

M

Versus lincoln ave versus uh uh maple haven, neighborhoods right, like just those three.

M

Alone uh differ so so much and then then you go to like rock creek, neighborhood kate street area.

M

And so thinking about the way that we have general residence, sra, srb and those types of.

M

Zones like are we looking at umbrella zoning changes, or are we looking at the adu for this.

M

Topic right now and preceding it, particularly, I think it will vary depending on zone.

B

The edu, I'm pretty sure, is a cross zone, but it's across single family.

B

Residential zones right- it's single-family zones right.

M

Because corey had hit on the non-conformity non-conformity of all these situations,.

A

But that might tie into how simple certain zones might be simpler than other zones. So, oh most.

A

Definitely yeah. I can tell you, because we've been working on the ordinance that most of the.

K

Changes really do impact across the board. There's not we're not calling out. There might be some.

K

Changes to the zones, but really the regulations, as you see them now tend you know, there's I think.

K

A couple exceptions, but tend to apply to all the zones wherever they're allowed. Similarly,.

K

A

Anything else on that.

A

Okay, um two points quickly: some things have come up recently and I've been talking with.

A

The planning director and other staff there's been a request that I support.

A

To have communications, if you have a question of staff, that's not something normal.

A

Responding to their request, please run it through me, so I can have a look at it and.

A

Then I'll work with staff to get the correct answers back and the other thing just very briefly,.

A

Jim's letter the editor today, in my opinion, that was okay because it dealt with a legislative.

A

Matter, you can talk about legislative matters. We have two two sets of things we do up here.

A

Don't ever talk to an applicant outside this room about a specific application.

A

That's wrong: it violates the right to know law, but if you were talking about zoning amendments.

A

So if somebody sees you on the street wants to talk about building heights or something else.

A

That's being proposed, that's a legislative matter, that's something you can talk about now that being.

A

Said I would prefer, despite the exuberance of getting more public input before we send private.

A

Letters- let's talk about it here and decide about what the best course of action might be.

A

If we're going to put an ad in the paper or maybe have a little bit more outreach, I just I think.

A

That would be better practice and better form and present things better to the public generally. So.

A

That's all I had for tonight. I just have a request. A formal request through you, mr chairman, to the.

J

Planning department that for future meetings, please can we please use something like.

J

Surveymonkey or the equivalent so that we have a chance of having the most people who are really.

J

Available coming to meetings, um and can we have as much lead time as possible because now that we're.

J

Sc, you know it's a great thing for scheduling, trainings we're scheduling special sessions, but.

J

I'm afraid that it's it's really not going to work for people who have like dense schedules unless.

J

There's some upfront time and we use some kind of tool- that's fair for getting the most.

J

Representation from the pub from the planning board as possible.

J

And I've asked for this a number of times.

A

A

A

I'm going to adjourn the meeting. Thank you.

A