City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Planning Board, 16 Feb 2023

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2.16.2023 Planning Board

A

You can go down one more chair, please good evening. Everyone welcome to the.

A

February 16th 2023 meeting with planning board. We do have one.

A

Alternate member, who will be here any minute but we're going to get started.

A

First, item on the agenda is approval of minutes.

A

Everybody's had a chance to look those over, they incorporate the minutes. We skipped at the last meeting.

B

Do you want them individually here, all together, do you want them individually or all together.

A

If nobody has any comments, if you want to do them all together, I'd make a motion that.

B

We approve all the december 15 2022 january 19th, 2023 january 30th, 2023 minutes. Second, all in favor.

A

Termination of completeness we have the request of one market square llc for property.

A

One congress street recycling approval for profit, demolition expansion, resisting structure, construct.

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A three-story mixed juice, building with 58 780 square feet of gross floor area, 12, 080 square.

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Feet of building footprint, 13 parking spaces and associated on-site and off-site improvements.

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This is plan ready for com. Acceptance is complete.

C

Okay, is there a motion, no I'll make a motion to be voted as a friend that the application.

D

Is complete according to the site regulations, and to accept the application for consideration.

E

Second, any discussion: all those in favor aye aye, opposed basically accepted.

A

Public hearings: we have a request again to a community mutual to postpone property at.

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225 borthwick avenue requesting a wetlands conditioner use permit under section 10 1017.

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This project's of shoreline stabilization work for two existing ponds on site, with erosion impacts.

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Etc, uh they've again requested a postponement. I have a motion to postpone so moved. Second.

A

All is in favor. Bye. Excuse me, do we get to say a comment in there? I'm sorry. I should have asked you.

A

I didn't it would be, but you can comment now. I I'd just like to say that I I would prefer.

F

To have an actual reason like it says we are still held up and I see the previous you know.

F

um Request for extension from january, but to me it's not really very clear, like what's the.

F

Reason for holding them holding them they're working on their state wetland permit and so.

G

They've been held up with that process, it's the state permits because it said state permits and.

F

Design plans by our engineer right so one of the conditions of the approval for the concom was to.

G

Get the state wetland permit and they had to do a plan, so I guess they're still working on that plan.

A

Okay, there can also be an iteration with the state, depending on their comments. The plan.

A

Might need to change to adapt to those comments, so I mean I just would like to.

F

Like to then, we are still held up. That's my only comment. Thank you.

A

We have uh the one congress street also coming up as public hearing.

A

um I'd like to consider a motion to take it out of order and bring it now on the agenda.

A

Folks are so inclined I'll make that motion. Second, any discussion, all those in favor.

A

Aye all right, I suppose, who's here to present for request of one market square I'll read it.

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Again: llc owner for property, one congress street requesting site plan approval for the partial.

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Demolition, expansion of the existing structure to construct a three-story mixed-use building.

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58 780 square feet of grossful area, 12, 080 square feet of building footprint.

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13 parking spaces associated on-site and off-site improvements. This property is on.

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Assessor's map 117 lot 14 and lies in character, districts, 4 or cd4 characteristic, five cd5.

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The downtown overlay and historic districts who is here to present for this application.

H

uh Thank you, mr chairman, members of the planning board, john shagnan.

H

From ambit engineering also here tonight is architect: tracy kozak, landscape, architect,.

H

Terence parker developer, mark mcnabb and some of his team and council fx bruton.

H

The project is tax map, 117 lots, 14 and 15 known as one congress. Street proposal is to construct a.

H

Three-Story mixed-use building a little background in february of 2022. The two lots that comprise.

H

The development area were merged, the zoning line, though between cd4 and cd5, still remains and is.

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Located in the area or on the line that used to be the dividing line between the two properties.

H

We came to the planning board and did a design review that was completed in april of 2022.

H

Subsequently, the project went through other approvals, the historic district.

H

Commission approved it in august of 2022 and the technical advisory committee approved it.

H

January of this year, three conditions from the technical advisory committee.

H

Were carry forward or met with the submission you have before you subsequent condition is that.

H

Off-Site improvements are worked out with the appropriate bodies. The developer is excited.

H

To propose improvements to high street fleet street haven court and ladd street.

H

This approval here tonight, though, of the on-site improvements, will get that process.

H

Started so there is a site plan that can then be built upon, and the street improvements can.

H

Go through a public process just as other student improvements do the street improvements are not.

H

Jermaine in a sense of needed for the project, the.

H

Developer is committed, but we ask for the site plan approval of the on-site.

H

Facilities and improvements proposed here tonight before we move into that second phase of the.

H

Public process of I've seen improvements in your submission package. We have a traffic memorandum.

H

You should find that in your submission, it shows that the development would only add 13.

H

P morning peak trips to the network, and otherwise there would be reductions in.

H

um Parking trip generation based on the change of use the parking meets the on-site parking meets.

H

The zoning requirements that's shown and talked about in the memorandum and also on sheet c6 of.

H

The site plan set the details of the calculations and the layout of the parking spaces is included.

H

Also, there's a green building statement, an average grade plane calculation sheet.

H

Some lighting information lighting is at this time proposed to be along the building, with the cut.

H

Sheets that you have in the package currently the pole mounted street lights are in a sidewalk that.

H

Doesn't provide appropriate clearance for city plows, and so the developer has agreed to move.

H

And shift that lighting to on building lighting and the department of public works has agreed.

H

There's a drainage analysis, that's also included the site. Development plans show the demolition.

H

That's associated with the project, the some of the structures, all along high street sort of the rear.

H

Of one congress will be removed to make way for the new building which is shown on the site plan.

H

The parking that is at grade will be lowered and be below level below first floor parking.

H

And that will be the basement is parking. Other utility functions the first floor.

H

Is proposed as retail second floor is office and with residential uses on the upper floors.

H

There's some landscape plantings shown on haven court. That's sort of the next part of the plant.

H

Set of the landscape plans, we're going to be redoing sidewalks on the development side of.

H

High street and putting in a new sidewalk along the back in the rear of the structure that will.

H

Connect to haven court for the utilities, new sewer and water are being proposed for high street.

H

And the building will connect to those for grading. There's no major changes to the grading, except in.

H

The back where the walkway will be elevated so that it will pitch out to haven court.

H

But one of the major improvements of the site plan is that we've added some catch basins.

H

In high street high street is really flat at this time, and so it does.

H

Tend to puddle immediately after rain storms, so we're extending some drainage.

H

Which includes catch basins at street level to help to mitigate that issue.

H

Also in the plan set is the detail of the lower level parking showing where the spaces are.

H

That's pretty much um the plan in a nutshell and if there isn't any other site questions at this.

H

Point I'd like to turn the presentation over to tracy kozak to talk a little bit about the.

H

Building and the htc process and then terence parker, to talk about any landscaping issues.

H

That you might see or want to hear about and then back to us for questions and final wrap up.

A

Sure show proceed. Okay! Thank you, mr chair. I just have one quick site question.

I

uh You mentioned earlier that you're seeking only site plan approval tonight correct.

H

We're seeking site plan approval for the on-site development. Yes, so none of your.

I

Proposed off-site improvements are required for the approval, and I was just trying to understand.

I

Is this something the applicant is donating to the city or what is he.

I

Obligated to do this or how's that all work into the project.

H

So the um there are some on-site off-site improvements in high street relative to.

H

Utility infrastructure that are shown on the plans and are a part of this approval.

H

uh We did come to the board in the design concept phase. With a you know, a wider project, including.

H

Off-Site improvements: um do we still want to do that, but in order to proceed.

H

We need to get the site on-site plan approved and then mark will probably want to speak to that sure.

J

Mr chairman, members of the planning board, I'm mark mcnabb, to answer your question specifically.

J

None of the improvements that are going to be betterments to city property are required for.

J

This project, the site plan today, is a standalone project with the utilities, drainage, building.

J

Necessary to meet the code and pass tac to go forward. It's my desire to give something.

J

That long outlasts me and I'd like to rebuild high street and ladd street and haven court.

J

With even walking surfaces, cat, mary lights, landscaping improvements, uh I think if I improve.

J

That whole area, it provides a connection to other things happening in the city and.

J

Maybe we don't see that much where somebody comes forward willing to make that kind of improvement.

J

But I I've done the same thing in brick market and I I just believe in that um it'll be two to three.

J

Million dollars to rebuild the city streets and do that and it's a lengthy process, so we thought.

J

It was all going to happen. Last year we worked on it hard last year with staff, with with met at one.

J

Point's planning board there what it was, but it got complicated and it turned out that, based on.

J

Lots of reasons that probably we're all familiar with and read about that it needed to be an.

J

Open book with the community to talk about what those streets want to look like like, because we.

J

Envision them like the musical or that the burying ground you know very high quality, granite, walking.

J

But it was determined the city would prefer us to really address it. Public hearings with the public.

J

On what they look like those betterments that aren't needed for our project, that are, let's call.

J

Them beautification projects, that's really what they are um and that seemed to make sense took us.

J

A year to get through to that, to know that that's really the advice of tac was separate. This out.

J

um And then go your route with public hearings with the staff with the council. Ultimately, all.

J

Those parties have to buy in so that's the uniqueness of these improvements that we.

J

Refer to as city improvements, this project has the off-site improvement stuff that are necessary for.

J

The building the sewer lines, the water lines, the electric- that's all part of your package-.

J

um So that's why we've broken it. This way tap thought that would be the best way to do it for.

J

Our end, we recognize, you know it'll, probably be a six month to a year process. It's significant money.

J

You know and and we needed to make sure and know that the actual project we have.

J

Is approved and real, um I am committed, though, to making those improvements I'm committed to paying.

J

100 of them, I'm not looking for any involvement from the city, not design fees, not sharing costs.

J

I'm representing to rebuild high street lad street in haven, court fleet street.

J

um As a city improvement um subject to the city's approval, though you know, if the city decides.

J

Or the council decides they don't want that? Ultimately, you know that won't happen, but it.

J

Won't because of me, I um I'm committed to that. I'm committed to seeing haven court connect to.

J

Fleet, I think it'll be wonderful. So that's the explanation. Why they're two separate.

J

um We were asked to really do it that way, just want to clarify that. Thank you. Thank you. I think.

A

I think the applicant wanted to have us hold our questions until everybody made the presentation.

A

Not you, okay, we appreciate your your filling in the details and the offer, but if we can wait for.

A

The rest of the team to present, then we can ask questions about all aspects of the plan.

K

Thank you and good evening, chairman and members of the planning board, tracy kozak with arco.

K

Architects here to talk about the building, as previously mentioned, it was approved by.

K

Htc last august, this is a new addition to the back of an existing historic building. Circa 1900.

K

And it is mixed use, as mentioned first floor retail second floor office, the upper two floors.

K

Are 18 residential apartments, total varying from studio one bedroom and two bedrooms.

K

There's one level of underground parking and uh that's kind of the summary.

K

The new building in the back will be clad with on the bottom, with granite and the.

K

Upper floors are a terracotta tile with a natural finish, and the roof is copper.

K

With some glazing in between uh buttresses a glazed corner and um happy to answer any questions.

A

Okay, well, I think I thought you guys wanted to do your whole team presentation, okay, but.

A

Maybe I misunderstood all right so now we'll move on to landscape design.

L

Good evening, terence parker, tara from a landscape architecture, my presentation.

L

Could be even briefer than tracy's, because there is a small strip of landscape on the north end.

L

Of the building that will work in concert with the off-site improvements that mark alluded to.

L

Before because most of my work is really the off-site improvements that go from fleet all.

L

The way to the intersection of high and lad and, as mark said, a lot of those off-site will replicate.

L

Some of the work that we did at chestnut street some years ago, so for the most part you can see.

L

In this plan that there's a small green strip of foundation, plantings on the north side will.

L

Be primarily ornamental, shade, tolerant plants that can handle city conditions there'll be some.

L

Porous pavement that goes down to the alley on the west side of the building that will have.

L

Temporary planters as well movable planters and that's really it for the on-site improvements of.

L

In relationship to the landscape architecture portion, thank you now. Questions from the team.

A

Yes, jane uh yeah, um actually.

F

I I kept looking at it and understanding that there's off-site landscape that really doesn't.

F

Have to do with the on-site application that we're looking at tonight, but on page 231 of our meeting.

F

Packet, there is a picture of the building from congress street and it has a tree in front of the.

F

Old historic building like on that corner, that's the existing tree and what is going to happen to.

F

The existing tree, um nothing yeah, it's going to stay yeah fabulous. That was my first question.

F

Great, thank you that was my landscape question. Thank you and then um I just wanted to understand.

F

The parking because, in the summary that that we have it, keeps saying 13 parking spaces. But then.

F

I clearly see that the basement parking is 23 parking spaces. So could you just clarify that.

K

Sure it's 23 parking spaces right now. I was going to comment on that that the description.

G

And the agenda had 13, but it should be 23., so it oh, it's a typo or something okay, they're required.

G

To have 22. right, I understood that. Okay, thank you. Thank you um and then um I went and stood outside.

F

Those buildings actually- and I I just wondered if the actual facade facing congress street is.

F

Going to change or if that's going to be preserved because it has it says chess club. It actually has.

F

Not engraved but embossed, if you can do embossing to brick, it's got like a raised lettering that.

F

Seemed very historic to me um is that a condition by the historic district commission or very.

K

Observant to see that the htc actually didn't comment on the chess club lettering, because it's.

K

Way way up high and very tiny, but I'm glad you noticed it um we're not planning to remove that.

K

We are, it is a full restoration of the coroner building, the brick building with the brownstone. It.

K

Needs a lot of attention. A lot of the brownstone has begun to spall. The the mortar joints are.

K

Missing in a lot of places, it just needs some care and attention the first floor, original storefront.

K

Was removed, mid-century that will be restored to the original condition based on historic photos.

K

um The firescapes are proposed to be removed and there is one window at the.

K

Far end on high street, which used to be a door, we're gonna make that a door again.

K

And that's pretty much it for the corner. Building the building to the left, which is three congress.

K

Street has a bit more attention to it. We are adding a dormer to the attic level and we're.

K

Also, restoring the storefront at street a slightly different than the very original.

K

um Photos, the original historic photos showed one door on one side, we're going to have two.

K

Doors but other than that, it's very similar and the second floor windows are being restored to.

K

How they were around circa 1920., they were a little. This building is older. It's 1860.

K

So we're not going all the way back to day one but we're going kind of halfway back on.

K

Those windows keeping the same openings that are there now, so that was a discussion with the htc.

K

That they came to agree on that direction, but you're going to keep all the historic.

F

um Words, I I don't know, oh the lettering, yeah and there's even more on the sign band above the.

K

Corner building it, it's a mechanics bank carved in granite that I couldn't remember what I I did read.

F

That yeah yeah yeah yeah cool. I think that that's important and then my last question is about.

F

Windows- I just want to understand um so as you're walking down lad street outside the building.

F

And on the sidewalk are, is there an overhang non- awnings, but is there an actual overhang.

K

Well, there are awnings um on high in congress of different natures, depending on which building they.

K

Are uh and then there's no overhang, there's just you know the normal gutter and roof.

F

So I don't know what I can't remember what um view it was, but I think it may be in the.

F

Rooftop view it shows a whole set of windows down lad street, but those are like literally.

F

Part of the building of the top floor. They're not like windows of an overhang.

F

Is that right sure it's there was a very a much earlier version that had a.

K

um A drive under along high street, but that is changed in its storefront windows along the.

K

Facade there is the back corner which protrudes out on the upper level, so that is a little bit of.

K

An overhang right on the corner, okay, yeah! I see it from that picture. Actually, that's the back.

K

Facing newberries yeah yeah, but I just thought there was something along that lad street, but I.

F

See in that picture, there's not okay! Thank you sure. Oh yeah, it's on the is this view. It's.

F

Oh okay, I just totally lost it, never mind it's. Okay,.

F

uh I'm sure it was the rooftop view yeah that one, what are the? What are the windows that are a.

F

Yep um they're sky windows, they're glazing, they're, they're, kind of skylights, they're.

K

On the angle of the roof, they're uh ganged in three between the buttresses, and so they.

F

They're just seen within that top story: they're they're skylights in a very steep roof pitch.

K

So um from street level, because the streets are so narrow, you don't really see them when you're on.

K

The street, you might be able to see them if you're far far away, maybe at the end of ladd street or if.

K

You're on the top floor of the garage, you could certainly see them: okay, cool. Thank you very much.

C

Corey, thank you chairman, um so I got several questions and I guess I'll. This might be an.

D

Architectural question, but maybe not um so the car's kind of coming and going and conflicting.

D

With pedestrians, you know obviously we're not redoing haven court just yet, but even so.

D

um Obviously, cars are gonna have to make a pretty good swing coming into the the building to get in.

D

The elevator, so how do you guys see that playing out under real time? Well I'll, let I'll let in.

K

More detail, but as far as the architecture we made the entrance into the garage door wider by.

K

About a third wider than it needs to be, if you were just coming straight in so that allows for.

K

A little more of a turning radius uh in for traffic patterns I'll, let john speak to that.

H

uh Sure so haven, court, currently and in the future, is used as the primary delivery um access for.

H

The newer east building, so there is traffic that goes up to the newberries building up haven, court.

H

There will be traffic in the future. There will be this traffic too, that is entering the garage and.

H

um There will be pedestrians there too, so it's just going to be something that will be dealt.

H

With, as in other situations, that sort of uh where there's some mingling of types of traffic, the.

H

Good thing is that nobody's going fast because you have to take the corner at high street.

H

So there will be they won't. It's not a street that sees through traffic, it's a dead end, so the.

H

Only people really that use it are going to be the people that live in the building and so are very.

H

Familiar with it or the delivery people that go to jj newbury's building, do you see signage at the.

D

End of maybe there already is signage, but sign is at the end of haven. Court just know through street.

D

Local traffic only delivery, only kind of just so people don't drive down there and then get stuck.

H

Yeah, that's a good! That's a good point. I don't think there's signers there now.

H

um People sort of I think when they, when they look at it, they they don't go down there, but.

H

That's probably a good idea in the future to think about some sort of signage, because if.

H

They see people turning into the garage, they might be tempted to follow them. So that's.

H

Probably not a bad idea, okay, great and then do you see the the parking in the basement? Is it.

D

uh I see it's like stacked parking, is it um per unit or is it going to be a valet system.

H

Yeah the stack parking, those two spaces will be assigned to one unit, okay, as required.

D

And then um in the uh in the alleyway, I know from what I recall: it's not a fire access alleyway. I.

D

Don't believe or anything like that, but I see there's you know you have bike racks in the.

D

Middle of the alleyway there's also the gas meters on the corner is that going to conflict with any.

D

Safety stuff going on in that area. I just want to confirm that that wasn't you know.

D

The separation between this building and the adjacent building is just kind of a.

D

I guess owner's preference so to speak sure, so the primary primarily that.

H

Rear alley is to provide light and air to both buildings and to provide egress. I don't even.

H

Know if it needs to be there for egress, but it's primary light and air and um the fire department.

H

Would not need to get over there as a fully sprinkler building they are. They did put in the.

H

At the attack committee meeting they talked about high street and the potential improvements the.

H

High street providing better access for fire safety, and they would be very happy with that.

H

But they did not talk or need any other access to provide for life safety. Okay, chairman: I have a.

D

Couple more, that's all right, thank you um and then just I guess. Moving on to a couple other topics.

D

So uh I saw the storm water looks like it's slightly: higher flows, um post construction.

D

And I know you're doing filtration on the downspouts from the roof drains coming.

D

Into the catch basins, uh did you guys look into on-site detention or anything trying to? I guess.

D

Hold some of that water back before it enters into the storm water system, um so the plan.

H

Was that part of the plan was developed before we decided to make the back alley porous.

H

So I believe, when we reanalyze, based on that, the peaks are going to go away and.

H

We're going to match the existing runoff, okay, great and I know um so.

D

Because we've kind of changed the way heights are measured, particularly in this urban environment.

D

And I believe the height was measured based on the old requirement. um Is that uh I guess my question.

D

Being with the new requirements, does the height still all work work out for this current zoning.

D

So I'm not sure about the answer to that question. I just know that we went through the process of.

H

Design review so the height is based on that older ordinance and it works with that ordinance. That's.

H

True, because it's based on the design review, here's your question: does it would it conform.

A

To the current one is that is that yeah yeah, but since do you know the answer to that question.

A

We did in fact update the drawings you have here to reflect the current and it does comply.

K

It is a hip to top mansard, and the average grade plane is for the whole building based.

K

On the current ordinance and it's well below the maximum right and they were vested back.

D

At the end of design, review anyways, so, okay, can I answered my own question all right. Thank you.

A

Any other questions the applicator and just a quick break. Mr simonis has joined.

A

Us, mr samana, should be sitting for marissa mahana tonight, who's out of the country.

A

Excellent apologize for my tiredness any other questions. The applicant.

F

Mr chair, okay, I don't have a question for the.

F

Applicant but I do have a question: that's a process, question embedded.

F

In our meeting packet, it's not for the applicant, should I ask it now or later.

A

Well, I guess we need to hear what it is. Okay, um because at the top of page nine in our meeting.

F

Packet, it's part of the tack review so and it's that separation of the on-site improvements from.

F

The off-site improvements that we discussed earlier and it says that tac will review the.

F

Off-Site improvements before seeking approval from the city council and I'm just wondering, isn't the.

F

Planning, doesn't the planning board still get a chance to review the off-site improvements.

A

Now the planning board will just review what it's reviewing tonight. The offside improvements are a.

A

Council matter, it'll go it'll, go directly from the tax to the city council and they may not. I'm.

A

Not even sure if they have to go to attack for that it's it's improvements on city property, so.

A

um It was in the tech process, it was recommended that they come back to tack to get input from.

G

City staff on the iso improvements because they're going to be significant utility work.

G

And grading and stuff and then tac would provide input to city council when they go to city council.

F

We want to see what that off-site plan is. We have to attend the city council meeting.

G

With the attack meeting or the attack meeting okay, there is a request in the packet uh for a waiver.

A

Of license fees for the offset improvements- that's not something we can approve, but we.

A

Could make a recommendation to council if if the board is so inclined, so there are other questions.

I

Mr chair yeah, just to clarify jane's question the reason why the planning board doesn't have.

I

Purview over the on-street improvements is because it's municipal property is that how.

I

That works and technically all municipal property projects, do not have to come to planning board.

A

Municipal property for municipal services does not have to come to this board.

A

Public streets or municipal services, okay,.

A

Any other questions for the applicant or me or anybody else before we open the public hearing.

A

Welcome to public hearing is anybody here to speak too far against this application.

M

Good evening elizabeth brighter property owner 159 mcdonough street, I have been following this.

M

Since the I think the very beginning, I might have missed one meeting out of all of them and I did go to all the htc, all the tech. I was definitely I'm sure. I'm.

M

Might be mugged on the way home, but it's okay. um They did a wonderful job trying to.

M

Maintain the congress street look, they put some modern things in the back. As you come.

M

Out of the parking garage which are kind of the welcome to the city, they try to maintain the look.

M

There's a view that you can see, as you come out of the parking garage of the north church.

M

Which is absolutely beautiful at night. They try to maintain that so they've been through the ringer.

M

So to speak, and I think they've done a good job of trying to make changes as they've been requested.

M

I've always found that every development that I follow starts out with a certain white look and.

M

At the end, we've only been able to modify a little bit a little of it, and that's kind of my goal is.

M

I like to see things become more compatible with the city, at least from my perspective, and I think.

M

They did a nice job. The front is like I said it maintains that historical look they've, preserving.

M

A lot of it, the back, has some modern aspects. They fix some drain issues in the back. I especially was.

M

Watching it because of the parking, and they did, they were able to fix any parking issues that were.

M

Originally there they did some nice stuff on the top. I believe solar panels are up there. I do yes.

M

There's so many solar pairings up there, something you don't see too often a lot of projects are nice.

M

And square this project has a real mansard roof, something that is typical of downtown. So I all.

M

In all at this point in the game, after having done this for a long time and complained about a lot of.

M

Things I think they should be passed. I think they did a nice job. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else.

N

uh Good evening, mr chairman, members of the board, kevin schultz with port city.

N

Realty group, I am management for pierce block condos, it's a direct to butter. uh We start our.

N

Building starts on market street a little bit before starbucks wraps around down high street.

N

And then continues around around ladd street we're excited for the new building. Obviously,.

N

um It's going to be a great improvement for that back end. We are just there's a couple points that.

N

We just want to make sure that either one we're notified or two just bring to light.

N

That high street in ladd street become very tight during construction, I.e the garage and we have a.

N

Lot of patrons coming from starbucks all the way around to the back side, which are doctors, offices,.

N

Up on the fourth floor, so we are concerned of just you know, preliminarily concerned of road.

N

Closures: construction, where, where there is a lot of foot traffic coming and going.

N

um With the underground garage we're all obviously concerned, I know this will be.

N

Brought up later, if there is any um blasting to be done for for the garage, I don't know if there.

N

There is, or if there was any uh testing done, but um I think our our point is we just want to.

N

Try to be kept up to speed and for the board to consider us because of the mass of our building.

N

And how tight it gets down there, but we're very happy for the for the mr mcnabb's new building.

N

um And I was happy to hear tonight regarding the approve the improvements of the water drainage.

N

That back area of high lad and haven corner very flat, very a lot of water, just accumulates there.

N

And the sewer system- just drainage systems not not adequate, but I will mention that if there.

N

Are some improvements we may on lad street? We might want to look at the the sidewalk.

N

Because people actually walk on the road, not the sidewalk, because it's such at an incline.

N

That it's actually dangerous to walk on and to have this beautiful building erected and and.

N

Have that old sidewalk still there, it seems to be wouldn't fit proper after everything's done.

N

But we're very excited for the building, but I just wanted to bring forth. You know the light.

N

Of how many people we have coming in going in this building, especially they park, downtown and.

N

Walk down high and walk down, lad, street and so we're concerned about you know just construction.

N

Maybe there's a construction plan or or something that might be available to us. Thank you. Thank you.

O

Good evening peter huta 280 south street, I also have been following this project all along and.

O

um Tonight, in reading the project background, I was a little confused um as to um the timing.

O

On all of the approvals here, it says the applicant was before the board in april 21st 2022 originally.

O

Proposed as a hotel, the current proposal is mixed-use. Building with a retail restaurant.

O

On the first floor and and everything else, so my question is, as you go down further the.

O

Project review, discussion and recommendations, um historic district, technical advisory. It says.

O

About project was approved, so these were done in august of 22 and january of 23.. So my question is.

O

Which project was approved and viewed by these boards at that time? It's not really clear to me.

O

um How this process works and which one uh was was approved as I I don't I'm not speaking for or.

O

Against I'm just wondering what kind of process we have here as far as which project you're.

O

You're actually looking at so um that would be my question and then uh on. The other side is um when.

O

You added the conditions and the conditions in the back that were added by the the other boards.

O

um If this was the other project, then are we really satisfying the conditions here.

O

um I I don't know who's who's supposed to answer that, but um as a resident I.

O

Was confused on somebody as somebody who's who is following this and by what's in here, so thank you.

A

I'll try a little bit on that. um Just the projects can evolve as they go through the process and.

A

They get revised reports along the way to tac so well. I can tell you that the.

G

Project, that's before you tonight is what was recommended from tech and the historic district.

P

P

So I think the confusion is um and looking at all the evidence, esther kennedy, 41 pickering.

P

Now sorry rick, um we're chairman um and looking at all the evidence, it was looked at as a hotel.

P

And I guess uh with mr mcnabb get being so giving tonight, as we heard earlier,.

P

Maybe we could look at some low income housing since we are looking at housing.

P

And I guess I'm taking back a little bit, but that hasn't been brought up.

P

If we're, but the reason it hadn't been brought up before, was because we were looking at a hotel.

P

So I would encourage us to really um think about and look at the project as.

P

It goes through the system. uh The other thing I noticed is that I didn't see any demolition.

P

um Any of it going to the demolition committee and I'm kind of asking this committee doesn't need to.

P

Go to the demolition committee, um it is losing part of an old structure and I heard tonight.

P

From the team that it's just you know back there, well we're keeping a mcintyre building. That's.

P

Only a little over 50 years, so I guess I would want to know um if we're demolishing the some part.

P

Of the project, then I would ask that it go through the committee and, as we know, there's pictures that.

P

Need to be taking all that kind of thing, so um those are some questions that I had for the.

P

Project, but if we're really looking at um a change where we're going to have units for rent or condos.

P

um After we get to the second level of the of the business, then have we looked at some options since.

P

There was some requests to change things around. I know we changed our zoning for the project, but.

P

um What else did we change? So I appreciate if we could have some kind of feedback on that. Thank you.

A

Thank you. Anybody else in the room.

A

We have two people on zoom, I think would anyone on the zoom call like to make any comments.

G

No one traced their hand. Would the applicant like to respond to any of the during the public comment.

K

Sure tracy kozak, um just to clarify the demolition, was thoroughly vetted by hdc and.

K

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but my understanding with the demolition committee is if there is.

K

A project in the city which is demolished, which is not within the ordinance or under.

K

Review of htc, then it goes to the committee, but in this case the htc.

K

Fully evaluated and discussed and voted on the demolition that is presented here.

K

Building use, it was originally proposed to be a hotel and it was the upper well. The program.

K

Was revised to what you see here tonight quite a while ago and all as was mentioned, the tac.

K

Approval and the hcc approval are exactly what you see here tonight. [music] Thank you.

H

One last uh note that the planning department, recommendations and condition of approval are.

H

Acceptable to the applicant, we appreciate your review and the city's review of the project and.

H

The time spent to make it the best project it can be. So are there any other parts of the project.

H

That need explanation or other questions before we wrap up well, I think I spoke out of turn we're not.

A

Supposed to be asking questions now, but we're talking about changing our rules, which might.

A

Allow that sort of thing, but we can't right now, so thank you very much. Okay, all right! Thank you.

J

Mr chairman, I wanted to address.

J

um Something you had brought up before, I wouldn't have, if you didn't bring it up on the.

J

License fees in public ways on high street and landstreet, and I understand that this.

J

Board doesn't approve that but could provide a recommendation, and I just wanted to make sure.

J

Nobody took that the wrong way, because the reason that will be in our request as we go further.

J

Down the road is because this is not asking for matching money from the city of portsmouth or any.

J

Money to redo all the streets, and it's all at our expense, we just kind of felt it was a little bit.

J

Of a rub to then turn around and pay a license fee to encumber high street and ladd street and haven.

J

Court to spend two to three million dollars to improve them, so it was just a fair play. Question.

J

That and that's the difference. We wouldn't ask for any fees to be waived on our project.

J

On the main project, but that's where that came from in case anyone had any confusion of why, as we.

J

Propose all these improvements in the street those license agreements to make those improvements in.

J

The street to close those streets, regrade them eliminate sidewalks on hard surfaces, is extensive.

J

And the fees can be extensive per the license agreement, so I just wanted to give the back.

J

Story of why, as we go down that process, we'll be asking the council that, because we're not asking.

J

For any money from the city that that we would appreciate not having to then also pay the license.

J

Fees for doing that work. Thank you. Is there. Anybody else like to speak either here or on zoom.

A

You know and nobody else, I'm going to close the public hearing.

A

Or discussion, I I just have a question, mr chair. That's all right.

D

um On condition, 2.2 the construction management and mitigation plan.

D

um Peter, do you mind kind of going over what that would entail, and would that also include a traffic.

D

And safety plan as part of that right, that will include um how they're gonna load the site you.

G

Know with with construction deliveries and and the butters will be involved in that process.

G

Fire and police and all of the public works will be they'll all be involved in that process.

G

So it handles it's pedestrian safety things like that: okay, fantastic! Thank you.

I

Yes, I just want to clarify the planning board: doesn't have the authority to waive utility.

I

Fees, do we that's the city council, we're going to make a recommendation of recommendation. Okay.

A

Andrew again, I apologize for being late um in a clerical question on the note that jim just made.

Q

Should this project be approved, and should we make a recommendation to the city council.

Q

And subsequently, they accept that, where the developer will fund the changes to the public way.

Q

In the event that something happens, whether it's economical or some turn of events, where.

Q

The developer can no longer fulfill the promise to change that again, economical or what have you? What.

Q

Happens then, well, I think I need to clarify that if I misspeak like the board, can ask you to speak.

A

Again, but the public hearing is actually closed, so we've got what's before us is not those offside.

A

Improvements what's before us is the plan on that's up there on the screen and that, if you know.

A

There could be surety involved with that. If you have a concern about that anything specific to the.

A

Plan that we have authority over those are issues on our table. We can make a recommendation for the.

A

Adjacent off-site improvements, which I personally support, making that recommendation to waive those.

A

Fees because I think it's a tremendous benefit to the city and a tremendous gift, that's being.

A

Offered so I think we should try to take advantage of that if the city can but that's separate.

A

So this this project is not contingent on that, and that is not contingent on.

A

This so that may not be true, but at least those improvements are not contingent on this project.

Q

Yes, did you, I guess the end of my statement or thought there would.

Q

Be it's yes and it's not contingent, however, and and there's always that consideration of.

Q

um Would the city like to better align their timing, as in regard to this public alleyway.

Q

um Right so should he not be fun, should the developer not be funding.

Q

um This public improvement, would the city see it as um inhibitive to their plans? Is.

Q

To improve that public alleyway uh again, should he not, should the developer not be improving it.

A

Well, I think, if the if the partnership broke down and because the this project.

A

Does propose accessing the rear of the property for its down its underground parking? So if the.

A

Relationship with the city broke down, which would be terribly unfortunate, that is a separate matter.

A

um In the counselor is desperate to speak. Well, I just to try to help clear it up that part. You.

B

Know- and I I sort of like the idea of talking about doing those separately because uh as.

B

A city council we've actually set some money aside for our coming budget year to actually.

B

Rethink all of market square down congress and all the feeder roads. So I think, as part of that.

B

Rethinking of what all of that could possibly look like- and this is tied into my request of trying to.

B

Move the route 1 traffic over to state street as well, making that two-way. So I think we have the.

B

Possibility of rethinking all of that space that we could rethink it all at the same time, and that.

B

The city council can then deal with those concerns at that time, as well as as we go down that road.

Q

So I guess the larger consideration for me was yes, it's amazing to have a developer willing to.

Q

Contribute- and um I think the payment in lieu of other licensing fees is absolutely fine.

Q

um And so to your point, counselor.

Q

If we he were to, if the developer were to be contributing funds uh and and willing to help with.

Q

The design would we be relying on that, would the city be relying on that and would the developer be.

Q

Assuming the development design influence, it just has nothing to do with this project. Okay, so, and.

A

I know I don't want to get it. Those questions. Those are council, questions, yeah, okay, you know.

A

Let's look at the project, it's hard, not to talk about that. It's a big! It's a big thing and you.

A

Know it's an exciting thing too, so I understand that I saw some hands raised down here. They.

I

Fight for for everyone- I guess on andrew with it.

I

What we're looking at tonight is the site plan, and everything else is great.

I

Discussion but we don't know if it's going to happen or could change or what have you but.

I

It's exciting, I hope it happens, but uh we're here just for the site plan yeah, absolutely.

D

Not to muddy the water, but I will um go ahead on stipulation 2.5. It does call out prior to.

D

Issuance of a building permit, the proposed off-site improvements for high street live.

D

Stream haven court will be viewed and approved authorized by the city entity to ensure building.

D

Pedestrian vehicular and emergency vehicle safety, so it is somewhat tied in the current now. Maybe.

D

It's a question a little bit for staff, just kind of the uh the background on that one stupidly. I.

D

Know the applicant said that they were comfortable with all the stipulations, but I just want to.

D

um I guess clarify that, and I wondered about that one myself right and it you know it's up for.

G

You can certainly pull that one I mean if you want to completely separate it from.

G

The offside improvements- um I think this came out of tax discussion just to ensure that they would.

G

um Have that off-site plan reviewed and approved kind of concurrently with this? But you know you.

G

Can definitely pull it if you, if you feel like it shouldn't, be a part of this approval.

R

I do think after all the conversation we've just had about it. It only makes sense to pull it.

R

It is truly separate and to then circle back and have a simulation that attaches.

R

A condition that we've been saying all night is separate doesn't make any sense. You could.

A

Just delete the first few words and say: have it start with the proposed off-site improvements.

A

Let those be reviewed and approved and authorized by the city.

S

Say, city council, not city entity. I think that was just a typo yep.

F

Excuse me, so how would it read, can you can you just say that, as a sentence post off-site.

B

Improvements for high street live street haven court will be reviewed and approved, authorized.

B

By the city council to ensure building pedestrian vehicle via vehicular and emergency vehicle safety,.

B

Just taking up the prior to issuing the building.

A

You understand that yeah, I understand if I just think we should take the whole.

F

Thing out, because again, it's still referring to off-site improvements.

A

Well, what's the pleasure of the board, we take the whole thing out.

I

Future is there, should we separate between utility off-site improvements and community.

I

Enhancement, improvements yeah, because that was my concern because there are off-site improvements.

B

Regarding utilities that are being done for the building, so we don't want to lose that part of it.

B

um So that's why it was fine as long as we don't make it pertaining to issuing to the building.

B

Permit but that they're still reviewed, buy the proper entities whatever is needed, whether it's.

B

Easements or whatever is needed for the soft side, improvements to make sure everything's appropriate.

A

So should it be, are you saying necessary offset improvements? Is that what you're, saying or.

A

Because what is proposed in this, which is not those additional things, it's just.

B

What's proposed in the site plan yeah right, it's just what's proposed, that's the way I read it so.

A

Would you propose to eliminate that I propose to leave it exactly as I wrote it.

B

Or rewrote it okay and peter's got that right, but that still includes lad street and we're.

A

Doing a lot of editing without emotion, but the utilities come down lad street. That's why.

A

Okay, any other discussion before somebody makes a motion to really talk about this.

F

Or is there anything else other than utilities? I mean, I think, just because that the terminology.

F

Off-Site improvements is a whole thing, separate from this site plan. I'd just like to.

B

But it's proposed in this site plan oxide improvements only.

F

But it's just utility off-site improvements. Well, it might be also sidewalking around the.

B

Building and that sort of thing, so it does like the lighting, the lighting's lighting.

A

Off the sidewalk and go down to the building, so I'm ready to go ahead and make a motion.

B

That we vote to find the site plan application, meets the requirements set forth in site plan.

B

Regulation, section 2.9 evaluation criteria and adopt the findings of access presented. Second,.

A

Would you like to explain your motion.

B

um I think this is a great project. I think that it's gotten even better with time. I.

B

Think it's a beautiful building that fits in with downtown. I love the activation of haven, court and.

B

Where that might go in the future- and I think it's going to be a great addition to the city.

R

Yeah I'd like to elaborate a little bit on that. I think that um you know this. This design, team and developer are setting a new standard, a new bar downtown and.

R

I this will be one of the top developments in the city. It's it's a beautiful project. It really is.

R

Just to give a non-technical opinion on it, it's I can. I agree. It's come a long way. It's a nice.

A

I I guess we had a second on that um I was. I got so caught up in all the uh happy thoughts.

A

Here all those in favor aye aye opposed motion gary's. I will continue to uh make a motion that.

B

We vote to grant site plan approval with the following conditions to be satisfied.

B

uh Subsequent to final approval of slate plan, but prior to issuance of building permit or.

B

Commencement of any site work construction activity which is 2.1 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 2.5, to.

B

Be read as the proposed off-site improvements for high street and lead street in haven court.

B

Will be reviewed and approved authorized by the city council to ensure building.

B

Pedestrian vehicle and emergency vehicle safety and then 2.6 and then 2.7 as well.

D

Second, discussion can I just possibly add one more to the maker of the motion that signage.

D

Be added to the end of even court to indicate that there is no l in local traffic only can.

B

We make that prior to certificate vacancy at 2.8 sure. Could I just comment one thing: when.

R

You brought that up. I thought it was a very good point, um knowing that the only way to view that.

R

Sign would be to mount it on the high end of a garage. Do we speak to the look the placement.

R

Of the sign- or maybe I'm sorry you leave it to signage, it could be the discretion of the cmmp.

S

And okay, oh yeah, great department, great I mean I. I would push forward to actually be mounted on.

R

The garage versus you know the building, but isn't that beautiful entrance exactly yeah.

A

Just the subject to you know proper signage for their garage. I am okay with that.

A

So that was a motion to amend she just accepted it now. Second, the amen, yeah, okay,.

A

Yes, um there's something I was about to say and.

B

Then I just totally lost my train of thoughts that got confused.

B

It doesn't matter, it's gone, it's gone, it's completely gone any other discussion.

A

All those in favor I proposed non-motion carries unanimously.

A

Thank you very much.

A

We have two other items this evening that could take a little bit of time.

A

One is to request deer street for extension, I'd move to move item 6a.

Q

I have to excuse myself from the deer street extension. Okay, we've had it motion to move it.

A

Up in the agenda, which is what I was leading up to, thank you for jumping right in second discussion.

A

All those in favor, aye, aye and andrew, I understand.

A

You'll have to recuse yourself on this one to do your street application. Okay,.

A

We have a request for the 238 deer street llc for property, 238 deer street, requesting.

A

A one-year extension, the planning board site plan approval granted march 17 2022.

A

And to modify the conditions of approval and the conditional use permit that it.

A

That the expiration can coincide with the extended term of the site plan approval.

A

I'm going to ask that you explain the technicalities on this for us, but.

A

Who's here to speak to this application, this request actually thank you, mr chairman members,.

H

Of the planning board, john sagin from emmett engineering, speaking on behalf of 238 deer street,.

H

Llc also here tonight, sharon summers council for the applicant. The property is tax map, 125 lot, 3.

H

And um the board approved one year, we're asking for sorry a one-year extension of the site plan.

H

um To uh which would expire one, a one-year extension was granted about a year ago and.

H

We're asking for that that will expire on march 17th of this year, um so we're asking for a second.

H

Year, extension of that site plan approval, which is pretty normal, but we're also asking you to modify.

H

The conditional use permit, uh which was extended on february 17th of 2022, and what we would like.

H

To do is: ask you that ask that that condition, use permit uh track with the site plan agreement.

H

And become a part of the site plan approval. So briefly, the timeline of the project is that the.

H

Project conditional use permit was granted by the planning board in february 18th of 2021.. I.

H

Not sure a majority, but some of you were a part of that approval and that was sort of a threshold.

H

Issue for the proposed development: the developer has a lot that he wanted to develop into micro.

H

Housing, which is definitely a need there, wasn't the ability to provide parking on the site so.

H

We asked and received a conditional use permit to allow that project to go forward. That was a.

H

Key part of the of approval that the developer did not really, and you would not expect him to expend.

H

Design, time and effort without that being in place so subsequent to that.

H

And in september of 2021, the project design proceeded and it as a result of the design. There.

H

Were some variances that came to light that were needed to be approved so in september of that year,.

H

Variance is for open space, rear yard setback and issues regarding the penthouse level were approved.

H

At that point, the project then could proceed on the next step in the process, which is a historic.

H

District commission so november of 2021 the project received historic district commission.

H

Approval and then at that point we were able to go forward with the site plan and this board approved.

H

The site plan in march of 2022 so fully a year and a month from the grant of the conditional.

H

Use permit uh that a time was taking up taken up in getting the project to the final uh finish line.

H

Now it's only been a year, but the planning board condition.

H

S that included providing some temporary construction easements. Some of those were.

H

Amended by uh and one of those was eliminated by a request to the to technical staff in november.

H

Of 2022, but that, though, that is condition number one. Initial number two is that the project.

H

Submit a cmmp plan and it was recognized at the technical advisory committee that the site is.

H

Pretty much occupied by the proposed construction so that that was going to be a key part of moving.

H

Forward and the developer did submit uh a uh instruction management mitigation plan to the city.

H

The review of that was held up through various issues, and so that has not.

H

Progressed to a completion point edition three is that we record the site plan.

H

And that recording the site plan is being held up while we meet all the other conditions.

H

The fourth condition is that the city be granted an easement for additional pedestrian walkways. I.

H

Don't know if the site plan can be put up but, as you were, the people that were here.

H

In the site, plan approval adjacent to the east and south sides of the building is an existing.

H

Community space easement to the city and the space between that property line and.

H

The building is going to be dedicated to the furtherance of that public space, so.

H

That easement is signed and ready to be recorded, but again there's a lot of things that have to.

H

Cascade into place, because it doesn't make sense to record that unless the project goes forward,.

H

But it's ready to go. The fifth condition is that we fill out the ptap online portal. That's done.

H

Identify an engineer of record, that's done and we make some minor plant corrections and that is done.

H

So so we get to the conditions of the conditional use permit that, theoretically, if we weren't here.

H

For a more time, we would have to comply with immediately before it expires, and that's the.

H

Long-Term leasing of seven parking spaces and the updating of the lease that was presented.

H

To the board regarding how those spaces are accounted for in the rental of the micro units,.

H

And without further ado, I'm going to turn that issue over to sharing.

T

Members of the board, my name is sharon; summers, I'm with donahue, tucker and shandella, and I've been.

T

Involved with this project in front of a couple of the land use boards, but not in front of all.

T

I would just like to piggyback on what john had said in terms of the the progress that we've made.

T

Since we originally received the conditional use permit back in 2021 and then progressing.

T

Through we actually got the site plan approval a year ago, so this is our first extension for.

T

The planning board site plan approval, um as john has summarized. There are a number of conditions.

T

um Which we've made significant progress on from the site plan approval we've made a substantial.

T

Progress in obtaining or finalizing the easements uh that are necessary from either of the butters.

T

Or from the from this from the city, one of those easements is still outstanding. It's.

T

Been it's under review by one of the butters and he's conceptually in agreement about the idea of.

T

Signing it, he just wants to finesse some of the language to make sure he's adequately protected.

T

um With regard so so, I think that, with uh the the site plan conditions, john.

T

Has described those to you um and they are moving along frankly as quickly as.

T

As a complicated project can can allow for uh with regard to the conditional.

T

Use permit just- and this was a couple years ago so just to refresh your memory quickly.

T

um What was discussed at that meeting was the notion that this board really wanted to ensure.

T

That the tenants that were going to be in this building would not abuse the nearby neighborhoods.

T

For off-street parking, and so one of the things that the board did was to require that there'd.

T

Be lease provisions within the lease for each tenant that has been provided to the city attorney.

T

I I believe that that's been approved, but I can certainly get get that confirmed and the notion.

T

Would be that each tenant, when we go to have our ceo and start signing people up for tendencies.

T

um We'll need to indicate whether or not they have a car and how and then we're going to have that.

T

Lease indicate where they're going to be parking as part of the discussion with the board back in.

T

2021 there was also concern that that, just that that might not be enough, that they wanted to have.

T

Kind of a backup or a plan b in order to ensure that, if, for whatever reason, the foundry garage was.

T

Completely booked up, but there was some sort of an overflow or surplus. If you will so the planning.

T

Board asked us to obtain a lease or an option for seven off-street spaces. Now what has happened.

T

Since then is as john has described, um a lot of time has gone by getting a lot of these other.

T

Approvals and we've made efforts to reach out to various people, who would be the logical parties.

T

To enter into either an agreement or an option with, and they have voiced not inappropriately the.

T

Question of well geez: when is you know, what's the term of this option going to be? When is the lease.

T

Actually going to start, when will the option be triggered and it's been very difficult frankly to.

T

Answer that question, and so while we have a lot of feelers out there, nothing has yet materialized as.

T

Recently, as today, I actually talked with another person who might be able to do something but again.

T

The question is, you can't really enter into an agreement until you have a lot more certainty as.

T

To what, when that is going to start and when it's going to stop, and so our thought would be that.

T

um We would get an extension if it's the board's pleasure tonight for meeting the the conditions.

T

Of the site plan, approval which are underway and have been pursued in good faith. And then we would.

T

Tie the obligation, which we readily admit that we have to obtaining this lease to the completion of.

T

Our conditions on the site plan approval so that one will will dovetail with the other.

T

um We think that that's an appropriate solution to this practical set of issues that we have and.

T

We think, frankly, that it's it's a solution which which is going to without granting it.

T

um Mean that this project may not go forward because we'd have to come back and seek.

T

Another conditional use permit in front of this board so um with that and I'm going.

T

To try to preemptively answer a question which I know some of you may ask, which is.

T

What is the thinking of the applicant? What what are they intending to do? What is their time frame.

T

For trying to make some decisions and to you know, try to actually complete the deal. My understanding.

T

As with many of the projects that may have been before this board recently, is that between.

T

um Last year's a slew of bad information in terms of the cost of construction materials and also the.

T

um The difficulties associated with getting financing and the interest rates.

T

um That there's been some reluctance and difficulty and actually.

T

um For various developers trying to make a decision as to when they're going to be.

T

Moving forward, I have spoken with my client and they they are telling me that that right now.

T

They feel that the construction material cost is in fact stabilizing, and they are cautiously.

T

Optimistic that the financing world is is going to become a little bit more stable and that the.

T

Interest rate situation is going to become a little bit more stable so that they do feel.

T

That, by springtime, they will be able to make more clear-cut decisions on moving forward. Wrapping.

T

This thing up and then being able to pull the building permit, which would be the time when.

T

They would uh finalize the the easement or not the easement. Excuse me the options. So uh if the board.

T

Has any questions for either john or myself we'd be happy to answer that and other than that we.

T

Would ask that this board grant the extension and coordinate the conditional use permit.

T

Condition so that it ties in with the with the extension and enables the project to go forward.

A

I've got some questions, but I'm curious if the board has yes. um I just want to confirm.

B

That you're requesting just to make sure it's very, very clear that you're requesting that we.

B

That you will complete the conditional use permit prior to any issuance of a.

B

Certificate of occupancy- and this will be the last request for any extensions.

T

Will be the well I I can't guarantee that we might not need an extension for the site plan, because I.

T

Think we're entitled to two: uh am I correct in that john yeah? No, this is the first. This is the.

G

First site plan: this is the first for site plan. um Once you pull a building, permit you'll be you'll.

U

See it yes, the conditioning use, permit conditions must be satisfied prior to a building permit. So.

T

So I I think that would answer the question so that so they can't get. I just don't want.

B

To tie it in and then they're getting an extra extension dc, and we do understand that you do.

T

Understand that and we we would need to have it in place anyway, once we had the.

T

Co because that's when we're going to start um entering into tenancies or leases with tenants.

A

Any other questions. Yes, yes,.

F

My question: I find this really confusing the way that you are trying to fold these in together.

F

um And so in your explanation about how the lease is going to be triggered and how that's difficult.

F

With the way that it's set up right now, isn't aren't the you you can set a date for when you.

F

Need to lease these required seven parking spaces according to the timeline that you yourself will.

F

Be setting about when building will start. I do not see how the time of the leases has anything.

F

To do with our extensions, so let me let me try to to explain that so when we got the conditional use.

T

Permit our obligation was to enter into either an option to lease or a lease itself, while there.

T

Was no particular time constraint on when that option or that lease needed to be entered into.

T

The term of the conditional use permit approval itself was for one year, I believe, and then we got.

T

An extension- and so here we are our conditional use permit- is due to expire. I believe tomorrow.

T

What has happened during that two-year time period is that, in order to enter into an option and I'll.

T

You know, let me just pick randomly and I'm not suggesting for a moment that he's committed to.

T

Anything but let's, let's say that we decided to uh enter into an agreement with granite state.

T

Minerals for an option to lease when we go to start uh leasing. Some of these units to tenants.

T

The question that would be answered by us drafting the option and also by the person who would hold.

T

The option is when how long is this option going to be for how? How long do I keep my valuable.

T

Parking spaces off the market, so other people do not rent them, and what we have had to say is that.

T

We're not sure now. If, because we don't know, we have not been able to know when the conditions of.

T

Approval would otherwise be completed so that we would be able to pull a building permit. I think a.

T

Better way to try to answer your question is that once the conditions of approval for the site plan.

T

Have been completed, we will then be in a position to be able to go to a particular vendor of parking.

T

Spaces and say all right: we're ready to pull our building permit. It will take my understanding.

T

Roughly, as it will take 15 months to construct the building um and so that the the option period.

T

Would then be 15 months, let's say in rough figures, after which, at the conclusion of that option,.

T

Period then, the lease itself would be entered into and just to kind of close that out the.

T

um The conditional use permit called for the lease itself to be for a period of.

T

um An annual lease to be reviewed at the end of each year for a period of up to five years.

T

Following the certificate of occupancy, and the purpose for that was to determine whether or.

T

Not the off-site spaces were even really necessary. It's a kind of a safety valve. It may turn out that.

T

Once these, these apartments go online, that there was going to be adequate parking for the people to.

T

Simply go to the foundry garage, but the planning board and I think wisely- wanted to have some sort.

T

Of protection in place so that they could have a lease on the books check it once a year and then.

T

Determine whether or not it was needed, and at the end of five years that obligation went away.

F

Yeah, I understand that I think there were a number of neighbors who were very concerned.

F

Too, so I think that that is actually responding to neighborhoods, who are really worried about.

F

Off-Street parking, so I understand that, but in your review of where you are regarding the.

F

Conditions being met for the site plan, aren't you completely there, except for this one outstanding.

F

Easement that you feel is about to come in so again. I don't understand why yeah yeah I'm going.

T

To let john speak to that because he's more in charge of the the site plan, mechanics that I am.

H

H

Condition number two of your approval was that a.

H

Construction manager and mitigation plan be submitted, and I think I I need to just.

H

Read it, construction management and mitigation plan will be required to address at minimum access.

H

And use of the missile right away, construct the building and proposed staging areas.

H

Heavy machinery staging and access shelby from deer street that was submitted to the city.

H

But because the construction involves not closing deer street, which is a concern there.

H

Has to be some staging areas off-site and so, once again the process is being held up.

H

At the planning department, because those off-site areas are not identified.

H

They were identified in the cmmp plan, but agreements were not signed because construction.

H

Is not imminent and those spaces are too valuable for a developer to just say, I'm going to hold them.

H

Until you get through the entire process- and it's not fair to the applicant to have to lease.

H

Them now, when they got to get through the planning department before they can even get the building.

H

Permit application reviewed, so that's why we're here put in a nutshell: it's processes that take a.

H

Lot of time, and then you have to also you know, get a building construction proposal financed and.

H

The bank isn't going to finance it until the site plan is approved.

H

In the site, plan won't be approved until.

H

Because the condition was was was written that way until that cmmp is executed or that's the.

H

Interpretation, so you don't execute the cmmp until you are ready to build. So it's kind of creating.

H

A problem hope that answers the question.

A

Yes, jim, um I'm not sure if this is for mr shagin or miss summers. um The way I read the packet.

I

um I kind of feel the planning board's hands are tied with respect to granting.

I

A second one-year extension on the parking cup, and is there any way you can explain why.

I

Our hands aren't tied or how we are able to grant a second one-year extension on the parking cop.

T

I don't think that I would say that we're not asking for a second extension and we're.

T

Aware that we cannot ask for a second extension, I think that what we're asking.

T

For is to simply have that particular condition of approval tied to the the.

T

Length of time when the the site plan conditions need to be to be wrapped up.

I

But it is changing the clock on the on the parking cup. Nonetheless, I think it's changing the clock.

T

Let me let me try to answer this. Yes, it's changing the clock on when that particular.

T

Condition needs to be honored, but I also think that it is changing the clock on that particular.

T

Condition for reasons which are good and which are consistent with all the other.

T

Reasons that we have outlined in connection with the site plan extension, the two are inextricably.

T

Entwined is there any hardship and reapplying for the parking cop, I would say. Yes, there are.

T

Two types of hardship: one is the hardship of the additional delay that will be caused in.

T

Having to go through the planning process again, the the second hardship would be the.

T

Uncertainty of knowing whether or not we would get the same relief, um I don't I've not done a.

T

Zoning analysis, so I don't know if there are any differences in regulations that may have.

T

Come into play between 2021 and now that may have an impact on the ability to get that and various.

T

Other factors means that we may have expended a lot of time and money and effort to get to.

T

This point and then have to basically start from scratch on what is essentially a threshold issue.

I

Okay, thank you. If I could follow up on that before you. um As you may recall, I voted in favor of.

A

This project to remain in favor of the project, but I I feel constrained by the the ordinance.

A

um The initial letter of decision tracks the language of ten two four six ten, which allows.

A

One, and only one extension and a conditional use permit is an innovative land use control, as you.

A

Well know: it's not just a simple condition, like um you know, talking to your neighbor.

A

Or securing an off street parking spot, so it's different than a site plan condition.

A

And I technically, how do you, how can you merge them and how can we get away from.

A

That what appears to me to be a prohibition in the ordinance show us a way. I'm willing to hear.

T

Well, other than what I have just said, which I, which is that I think that the condition is, is.

T

Linked to the um to what I've just described with regard to the site plan conditions.

T

um You know you're correct in that the ordinance says what it, what it says is just that we're.

T

Asking for the timing of the honoring of it to be to be linked to this. This extension.

T

Need a couple minutes: yeah.

A

The word like to take a break while we're, while they're talking good idea.

A

Not my idea, it's a manager's idea, good idea. Thank you. How many minutes five five minutes.

B

Well, we have to wait till everyone's seated now.

A

Folks, we are back, and you guys have had a few minutes to commiserate so.

T

um An answer to your question: I went back.

T

On our request, you will text of the um of the the relevant uh regulation, which is.

T

10.246.10 and what we are asking the board to do tonight, we're really asking for two things:.

T

One is to extend the site plan approval um for a year and then the second thing that we are.

T

Asking the planning board to do is to modify the condition on the conditional use permit.

T

um That the applicant produce a lease and so forth such that that condition can coincide.

T

With the extended term of the site approval, and I think that there is authority to be.

T

Able to do that under the ordinance or under the regulation, language, which indicates that.

T

A conditional use permit shall expire within one year unless otherwise, from the date granted. Unless.

T

Otherwise stated in the conditions of approval, so I believe that if this board were to modify.

T

The conditions of approval that you would then be able to um get past that time constraint.

A

Where do you see that language in section 10.246, 0.10, okay,.

A

Because that language, it does say, can be ascended by as much as one year. If.

A

An extension is requested, enacted upon no other extensions may be requested and that.

A

Was contained in the letter of decision two years ago, no other requests may be requested.

A

So, if you're proposing that, because of the because of the light plan, you want to try.

A

To somehow incorporate the cup into the site plan and make the extension of the site plan.

A

Envelop, the cup is that your that's that's one way of putting it and also, I think, to modify.

T

The condition of approval I mean another way of phrasing: it is to modify the condition of approval.

T

In accordance with that language, which I just read, which would allow that condition to be satisfied.

T

In a time frame consistent with the site plan approval, so I think if you did that, if you took.

T

That approach, if you modified the condition, you would then get past that one year time constraint.

A

It doesn't get me past it, but I'm only one okay, so any other discussion.

B

Requested all of these hoops for the record and reason I did it was because.

B

That is my neighborhood that's back there and we are have a lot of parking issues so.

B

I think that we worked really hard to come up with some.

B

Innovative ideas in order to try to you know, look at the parking over a long period of time and see.

B

Because we don't have any true micro units in or small, very tiny units in portsmouth. As of.

B

Yet downtown like this, and so the idea that keeps getting floated out is: do they really.

B

Need parking or don't they well, the idea of they would have to find them parking if they do need.

B

Parking and that we could look over this, you know continuously for five years and be able to try to.

B

Figure out, I thought it was a really great way for us to be able to figure out what you know.

B

As we are starting to look at parking regulations, this would be great information to have as well so.

B

I'm willing to move forward and try to modify this with. The idea is that this I kind of rewrote the.

B

Actual motion that it has to be completed prior to issuance of seo and the extension.

B

Would be final for the conditional use permit like it would have to be done within the next.

B

Basically, we're given a year and a month and if they don't draw a building permit in the.

B

Next year, in a month, then that conditionally is permanently go away, and I think we have since.

B

We're being so flexible and modifying and have the ability to do that, I think we can say that.

B

So that's my thoughts on it. I'm willing to try to go out there. It's been a rough road and I.

B

Did think that they kind of brought that to us so early that I thought. How long is it going.

B

To take before we actually see site plan, which it was quite a time frame in between the two so.

B

I'm willing to stretch the idea of modifying and modify it in that way, but that's just me I'd be.

R

Willing to support that. That idea, especially considering that the applicants are asking for.

R

More time to simply do what they've been asked to do, they're not looking to change uh their plan.

R

They're not looking to they just need more time to achieve what they've been asked to achieve, and.

R

um I don't think it's precedent setting because I mean this is a very unique situation as counselor.

R

Said um you know, micro units are a recent all right. We don't have a lot of. We don't.

R

Have a lot of micro units to refer to, um and I would I would speak a little bit to.

R

um The idea of these off-site leaf spaces and whether or not it's a good idea and it's.

R

Going to help us solve our problem micro units because it doesn't actually force the person.

R

To use this space that might be a little bit remote, they can still park wherever they want.

R

You don't you can't tell someone you must park in the spot, so they could simply lease spots.

R

Wherever they wanted to I'm talking about future development, sorry, the the idea of it.

R

At least I still, I think, needs some some more thought, but for all the reasons that we've.

R

Just spoke about, I do believe it's valid too there's some extension to the project for sure.

S

And for the purpose of discussion, we want me to make a motion and we don't have a motion on the.

S

Floor correct, I was just about to say that I I be happy to make my motion that I drafted here as I.

A

Wrote it uh vote to grant a one-year extension to the planning board, approval of the site plan and.

B

Amend the conditions of approval for the condition use permit to be completed. Part issuance of a.

B

C certificate of occupancy and the extension would be final for the conditional use permit.

B

Does that add in everything I said.

A

Did you put the absolute limit that you talked about in there right? It would be final, like.

B

This extension, that's why I put the extension, would be final for the conditional use permit.

A

They're a second to that second.

G

But I was going to suggest a time frame well so it would be what march, whatever the march.

B

2024 time frame is whatever that date is, I just didn't have the date in my head. Basically, it's a.

B

One year and one month march, 17th 2023 yeah 2024, so that would be march. Yeah would be final. First.

R

Get the vote on this before 1201 right, otherwise, it is.

R

Yeah, so I'm uh I'm very sympathetic to your conditions. I believe you all have legitimate.

I

Concerns here, but uh you know, our zoning ordinance is not a they're, not suggestions.

I

They're rules and I I feel myself bound to the rules and uh I feel that it wouldn't.

I

Be too much of a hardship for you just to come back and ask for a cop extension on the parking.

A

It'd actually have to be a new one, they're asking for an extension.

A

Any other yes yeah, I in debating this.

F

You were able to make a lot of progress in two years on the site plan. um I don't.

F

Really know this, but I assume that the planning department, when they're when, when they they know.

F

The dates that things are going to become due so I'm sure they are also paying attention to.

F

These deadlines also, so I just tend to believe that there's more to the story than just that,.

F

It's the planning department that um needs to work with you guys on the cmmp, um and you still.

F

Have the one outstanding easement also, so I tend to agree with you jim. I think I think you know.

F

I don't think that we should make an extension of another year on this when our ordinance says.

F

Quite the opposite and that you're welcome to you know, come back and ask for a parking cup.

A

I'm just going to add um all the reasons submitted are reasonable.

A

And equitable and to me, I've actually made a note that this is something in.

A

The ordinance I'd like to see changed, I think it's too constraining, but all right.

A

I spent too much of my time with running ordinances. I can't I can't go against these words.

A

Even though I think it's a good idea, I support the project. I voted for it. As you know, I didn't even.

A

Support the offside leasing for parking spaces for this project. So but I I don't see that the.

A

Ability to do what what's been asked under the ordinance which written any other discussion.

A

Do we need to, we may need a roll call on this. Let's have a roll call. Can someone repeat the.

I

Motion, please yep uh vote to grant a one-year extension to the planning board approval of.

B

The site plan and amend the conditions of approval for the conditional use permit.

B

To be completed prior to an issuance of a certificate of occupancy and that the.

B

Extension would be final for the conditional use permit as of march 2024.. Thank you.

A

Okay, we have a roll call. Would you do the honors follow those in favor.

F

If you put okay to this entire conglomerated motion, I say nay. I am, however, in favor of an.

F

Extension of the site plan, but because it's all together with the second part, I say no.

B

I can break it into two motions. Well, we have a motion and a vote.

A

But let's we can there be another motion: okay, next councilman! Yes,.

G

Mr hewitt, no sure amita. Yes, mr clark, yes, ms connor, yes, mr chair, no.

G

Four to four motion fails.

B

uh How about I start with a motion to grant a one-year extension to.

B

The planning board approval of the site plan.

A

A second second, any discussion.

A

All those in favor aye, aye opposed, is it even worth making another one.

B

I don't know anything further on the cup.

D

Yes, not that I'll change any minds, but I'm the only one that hasn't spoken on it. um I think.

D

Just as others who have said you know, the city has really looked at trying to pull off these.

D

Micro units in a number of different places and for one reason or another they they have been.

D

um Either, basically, the developments have shifted direction, um so I think it's something that.

D

We all want to see try to to occur in this city and given the constraints of the site.

D

um You know, I'm not sure how else we can tackle the parking issue out there without completely.

D

Changing this project, and so while they would have to come in front of us for another cup, if, uh if we.

D

If we don't amend this current cup, I don't think I think the project as a whole will not move forward.

D

um I do feel for the applicant when it comes to trying to get various city approvals and.

D

Other permits and of the such from regulatory agencies, it is a very time consuming process, a.

D

Lot of times you have come conflicting, um even within the city itself, you have conflicting.

D

uh Requirements from different departments, then you would think that you know the the.

D

Planning department be helping things along and I'm sure they are, but at the same time,.

D

It doesn't, you know, it's not a fine-tuned machine by any means, and so a lot of times.

D

The applicant is, you know, sometimes having to go around and around uh you know, get a permit.

D

From this one get a permit from this one: oh you got to go back to that one, and so it's.

D

um You know, maybe they could have done things differently and tried to speed things up, but.

D

There's that and then also as we all know, you know, the past year has been been uh pretty interesting.

D

um And we ran into similar issues when, uh when covet hit, you know, applicants you know.

D

Went from not uh not thinking that they would be able to build projects at all. To you know a.

D

Boom of projects- and so things are always you know very dynamic and everything else, and I would just.

D

um I would just hate to see you know something that I think folks in the city really want to try.

D

um To you know, essentially a pilot program.

D

um To see if it's feasible to make it work and I'd hate to see, you know something such as this.

D

uh Shoot it down, I don't think that we are bending the rules by any means. um I do think we are just.

D

Amending the conditions at this point in time, and so I think uh that, along with the extension.

D

I think it's reasonable request by them, and so I will be voting in favor of amending the cup.

A

And you did yeah there's no new motion right um just to if I'm just gonna explain because.

A

I do support the project and I agree with everything you set up until the very end.

A

The provision of the ordinance that constrains me and, I think, constrains the other people.

A

Who voted against it doesn't apply to just this parking cpu. It applies to all cups and.

A

I think, given the realities of construction, vagaries and all the approvals processes and.

A

Interagency activity that you talked about, that paragraph needs to be changed, I mean, if it just.

A

Said for good cause, we could give it another. The extension I'm with you 100, but it doesn't.

A

And I don't I'm not sure why it doesn't, but it doesn't so we are. We constrained that we.

D

Cannot make any changes to the conditions of approval? After the fact, the cup yeah.

A

It's done, we can only grant an extension. We can't change it without a new application. In my opinion,.

A

And again the 10 10 2, 4 6 10 applies to all cups and their innovative land use controls.

A

As I mentioned to the applicant, that's a special section of the statute. It's not like a site plan.

A

Approval a site plan approval: that's why you're allowed more extensions for site.

A

Plan approval, those are traditional planning, board responsibilities, conditions, innovative.

A

Land use controls are more recent and that's why an appeal of a innovative language control.

A

Doesn't even go to the gps, it goes to the housing appeals board or the superior court. So it's to me.

A

All the reasons you've mentioned and the folks who voted in favor of it. I agree it's it's logical, but.

A

As mr hewitt said and the other people I feel constrained by the way the ordinance is written.

D

Well, I guess my only comment to that would be.

D

You know the the staff certainly understands the ordinance and the intent of the ordinance, and so.

D

Having the staff put forward the ability for us to amend the conditions of approval, that's you.

D

Know I guess I'm relying on staff for that that interpretation that we can amend the conditions.

D

Of approval is, as I had to say in a deposition recently. Sometimes bonding boards make mistakes.

A

So I was going to say I'm so sorry.

F

That, in addition to this whole piece about the ordinance and staying true to the ordinance, I.

F

Mean I don't think it's you know now now a couple of years have gone by and the parking terrain in.

F

Portsmouth changes constantly, as other buildings are built as people search for parking, which is.

F

uh It is a pursuit of many people I meet on the street the pursuit to find parking so.

F

It wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'm just looking at it from the point of view of.

F

The applicant applying for a parking cup to be able to have another round of discussion.

F

Including from people who are butters and are in the neighborhoods that are.

F

Possibly impacted by all of this before we decide, I mean I think I think that.

F

The environment is changing enough that it actually warrants applying for new parking cup.

A

A

The board can make another motion if it wishes to.

A

Who doesn't wish to I'm going to move on.

D

I'll make another motion that the uh we vote.

D

To amend the conditions of approval for the conditional use permit, as requested.

A

So it's the same as the counselor's motion just severed to be completed prior to an issuance of.

B

A co and the extension would be final as of march 2024.. Thank you, councilor, then I'll. Second, all.

A

Right, don't know that we can actually re-vote on something, but I guess it's been separated so.

A

Another roll call vote, I suspect sure I say no, hmm mr harris no counselor. uh Yes, mr hewitt, no.

G

You show me it yes, mr clark, yes, miss connor! Yes, mr chair, no order, four.

A

Motion fails sorry.

A

We have a continuation of a public hearing on the I can find it. The phase two regulatory amendments.

A

Continuation from the planning board meeting last month- and this is on the article 2.

A

Regulatory amendments, including tape, 10 440 table, uses 10814 accessory dueling.

A

Units section 1080 garden cottages, section, 11, site development standards, section 10, 1110 off.

A

Street parking and article 15 definitions- I believe mr cracknell is here to present.

V

Good evening, mr chairman of members of the planning board for the record nick cracknell.

V

The planning department, I'm the principal planner. The purpose of my presence tonight is to continue.

V

The conversation and the presentation and pick up where rick tanner left off uh in january, I believe.

V

On the 30th was the meeting a couple of weeks ago, what I'd like to do is really focus in on.

V

The uh briefly on the revisions that we've made to the ordinance as a byproduct of the conversation.

V

Here on the 30th and also discuss some follow-up comments and questions from uh board members as.

V

Well, as the public that have have sort of dribbled in over the last week in an effort to uh to clear.

V

The air, or make subsequent amendments or agree to uh to to put them aside and come back to them so.

V

I have a very quick uh overview here as rick said last month. This is really about removing barriers.

V

As much as we can here in the adu ordinance, which has been on the book since 2017., I believe we've.

V

Had 37 applications since the adoption of the ordinance and we've had 13 of the units.

V

Actually go through to occupancy and a number, obviously in construction, but quite a few units.

V

Have gotten approvals and not chosen to build the actual unit, uh and I can't tell you why but.

V

I'm sure it's a myriad of reasons and part of the uh the housing navigator position is to do some.

V

Interviewing with prior and applicants, as well as current ones, to uh to answer some of those.

V

Questions why the units are not actually coming to market? The second goal back on that slide is.

V

Obviously, to strengthen the provisions. This is a really important one uh for many of us, it's to.

V

Make sure the subordination uh standards, as well as the design standards for the actual unit itself,.

V

Are as compatible as possible with not only the abutting structure on the lot, but the surrounding.

V

Context, there's a lot of variability in portsmouth in the neighborhood sort of quality and character.

V

The idea with the ordinance is to calibrate this more closely to the immediate context of.

V

The proposed adu and the last uh but not least, uh component here, which is which is more challenging.

V

Than it reads is to make this ordinance easier to understand and read for the user.

V

So sorry, my voice is failing me a little bit, but what rick went through in uh january on the 30th.

V

Was sort of an outline of the proposed changes that have come out of the land use committee.

V

Which includes a couple of members of the board myself and other staff. There were changes made.

V

To the use table, we've shifted away from the garden cottages to just having attached and.

V

Detached adus I've tried to refine the language of the purpose and eligibility section of the code.

V

And then really get into those subordination standards to regulate the size, mass and volume of.

V

All adus, whether they're attached or detached, uh clarify, refine and maybe beef up the architectural.

V

Design standards that were in there in the 2017 ordinance and then uh there's an effort in this.

V

Version to create an as of right condition where units within an existing accessory structure could.

V

Could possibly be built with an administrative approval from the planning director outside of.

V

The conditional use permit process there wouldn't be many of those units, but the possibility would.

V

Exist should this ordinance be adopted in its current form and then, lastly, just dealing with.

V

The post approval requirements uh how we track these units annually and certify the units and.

V

Really deal with the enforcement issue of making sure people are following all the rules over time.

V

By introducing the idea of a recorded affidavit, so if there is a reported incident of somebody.

V

Not adhering to the requirements, at least in the registry of deeds, there's a recorded affidavit.

V

That they were aware of those ignorance will not work as an excuse. All right so what's happened.

V

Since the last meeting there are four main sort of areas of agreement that we heard. I.

V

Heard them from afar, but our team got together and uh we looked at the adu's size maximums that are.

V

Allowed in the ordinance we looked at the parking requirements, the architectural standards and again.

V

That review and approval process focused primarily on the administrative approval.

V

So if we go to the uh there were the other comments that came in over the last few days.

V

Or in the next slide I'll circle back to these at the end of the conversation, but.

V

There's questions about you know we we currently since 2017. We still to this day allow adus in the.

V

Rural and the sra and the srb district, some of these districts going without two family uses.

V

We've actually had a half a dozen adus approved in those districts, primarily because we don't.

V

Consider and we haven't that an adu is actually a second qualifies, a property to become a two family.

V

So I think we're going to need to make some clarifications to that. If there's.

V

Some confusion about whether an adu plus a single family actually equals a two-family structure. It's.

V

Not the way we've looked at it in the past uh some questions about some of the language and.

V

The purpose and eligibility again we'll come back to these. At the end, uh questions raised.

V

About the parking and now that we have addressed the size of the adu there are, there are instances.

V

Where you wouldn't need two parking spaces for a single family home, um the dimensional requirements.

V

uh The questions there about the language we have versus the state statute and dealing with the.

V

The minimum lot area requirements that we have in portsmouth versus the state statute and we.

V

Can we can talk about that? uh A good pickup was that, since we're allowing adus in the character.

V

District cdl one and two along islington street court street. uh There needs to be a reference.

V

For them in the dimensional requirements, which there currently isn't and hasn't been since 2017.,.

V

um The subordination standards one one thing we did and I'll get to it with the size of the.

V

Units is shift the size of the adu from 750 gross floor area to gross living area, which.

V

Is really the condition space the the heated and conditioned space? The living area of the.

V

Unit versus the thickness of the walls in areas that are uninhabitable under the building code.

V

So we have a new definition for that and I, I think, there's some consistency. That's been pointed out.

V

That we need in the terminology of conditioned and unconditioned space and then, lastly, on there.

V

We want to make sure since we're we're now moving towards, should you want to do this uh not allowing.

V

Adus to be over 750 square feet and not allow the planning board to waive that, which is what has.

V

Happened since 2017, we need to make sure that the waiver provisions that are in the code today don't.

V

Allow the board to waive the size of the unit, so I think we need to make an adjustment there.

V

So we'll go to the main four areas of so-called agreement from the meeting a couple of weeks ago.

V

The adu size again, we were allowing adus to be up to a thousand square feet in the in the amendment.

V

That was before you two weeks ago, and it was based on the gross floor area again, including the.

V

Thickness of the walls, that's what's in the code! Now it's been there since 2017 gfa, we were talking.

V

About moving it to gla, which is again the living area, so you measure the size of the unit based.

V

On the living area of the unit, but this would cap it at 750 square feet. This version of the.

V

Amendments we have a new definition for the gla, so as rick showed this slide last time, there's still.

V

Two types of attached, adus one within an existing building.

V

There's a typo there I meant to strike more than it would say up to 750 square feet and the yellow.

V

One on the left, but it's gla the changes that its gross living area now instead of gross floor area.

V

That does allow the adu to be a little bit bigger than if it's gfa, but we're talking pretty small.

V

Amounts, okay and then you look at the detached units. There used to be four categories now, there's.

V

Only three because the last one was the units from 750 up to a thousand, so I've struck it out.

V

So there's still seven districts allowing up to 600 square feet in existing building.

V

That's not expanded seven districts with a cup if it needs to be expanded or it doesn't comply.

V

With all the standards dimensional standards of the code, then the last one is up to 750 square.

V

Feet in a brand new building that complies with all the standards that needs a cup so.

V

There's very few types that actually could be done administratively by the planning director.

V

So we'll go to the second area that was discussed was there was a and I'm not suggesting everybody.

V

On the planning board said: hey, we, we need to be able to waive parking, but there was a general.

V

Consensus as we understood it that, because there would have been an instance with the larger adus.

V

Where four parking spaces could be required for a single family and an adu, that's over 750 square.

V

Feet there was an interest in having at least the ability up at the planning board to waive.

V

That without requiring a separate conditional use permit, so we do still require one uh parking space.

V

Off street space, which was in here a couple of weeks ago, it's still in the code that you need.

V

One, regardless of the size of the adu. So if you do a 450 square foot adu- and we do have some of those.

V

They would normally only require half a space, and if you added that to 1.3, if, if the single.

V

Family was 2 000 square feet. You'd only need two spaces, and people felt like that was inadequate.

V

So we're requiring one parking space for every adu created, regardless of its size,.

V

And the one of the questions I I got, I think yesterday from one of the planning board members.

V

Was we also had in that january version that a single-family structure needed two spaces and.

V

The question was raised: well what if it's a really tiny house and it's not over 750 square feet, there.

V

Are some of those imports not many? They wouldn't technically need 1.3 space spaces, which would.

V

Round up to two they'd only need one space under the code if they were a 700 square foot house. So.

V

We made a very minor adjustment or we need to not in the version you've got, there's a number two.

V

In the parking provision that would just need to be removed, but we'll go back to that in a second.

V

So I don't think, there's a need for a waiver provision because we got rid of the larger adus.

V

Questions can come in a minute, we're almost done here, so we, this is what rick showed a couple.

V

Of weeks ago, you needed one to two spaces for a principal, and actually it was two spaces. I put the.

V

1-2 in there today and you'd have two scenarios. If the adu was up to 750, you'd need three cars. If it.

V

Was over 750 you'd need four, and we no longer are looking at adus of that size. So there's only one.

V

Pathway to take it'll be three cars or two cars, or every adu, depending on the size of the single.

V

Family, that's already on the lot, so go to the next slide. The third piece or the architectural.

V

Standards- and there was some questioning about how rigid they may or may not be applied.

V

Some of the language I think for some folks was maybe too narrow. We've always had architecturally.

V

Consistent with, but I think, a planning board member hewitt offered a really good suggestion.

V

That it also include the words similar in appearance too, so the idea here is that there.

V

Would be a high degree of consistency between the existing principle structure and the adu. But it's.

V

Not intended to be a verbatim replication of the quality of the of of the primary building. That's.

V

Already on the lot, whether it's historic or not, this is just an example of how that this would be.

V

An obvious candidate from an architectural design standard standpoint that would work.

V

That's behind the house and you can see they're definitely relating so anyway. Ultimately, you.

V

Guys would be making that decision anyway, under the conditional use permit, which will still be.

V

80 to 90 percent of every application that comes in here if this is adopted,.

V

Okay, so number four, the last area was really getting our arms around the language for the.

V

Administrative approval process- and you know there's certainly uh no surprise. There are a.

V

Number of folks, both in the public and maybe board members as well, that are still concerned about.

V

Creating and establishing this new pathway for as of right, adus administered solely by the planning.

V

Department through the planning director, but in an effort to try and make this work so at least.

V

Some adus in existing structures that conform to the zoning in their current location can address.

V

The concerns about the review period, what does the notice entail? What do the neighbors get to know.

V

And when and who are the abutters, what what does direct to butter mean and how much time do they.

V

Have to respond and to whom, and what does that person that receives the comments do with them.

V

So we've tried to tighten up that that language and the sequence of events we're envisioning a.

V

Sign that would be very similar to the demolition notice that the demolition review committee uses.

V

It would be posted in a prominent location on the property and that same notice would.

V

Be photographed and mailed through certified mail to all the butters within 100 feet of the subject.

V

Property and the butters would be given notice that they have 30 days to provide written comments.

V

To the planning director on the application, the planning director would be reviewing the.

V

Application against the standards and making a determination whether it meets the standards to.

V

To be approved, or not, if it doesn't, the applicant then would seek a conditional use permit in.

V

Front of the planning board, so that's how we addressed that issue. So these follow-up comments.

V

And I'm not going to suggest I've got all the answers today for some questions that even came.

V

In this afternoon, but I think in respect to the the rural, the sra and the srb, I think maybe at.

V

Least two: if not all three of those don't allow two family uses and they haven't for many years.

V

We allow currently some adus, not in I don't know about the world district, but.

V

The sra and srb actually have applications. It obviously makes sense, at least to me that the.

V

Easiest places in portsmouth to to insert an adu are those large lot. Rural locations.

V

With much more land than the urbanized neighborhoods in the city.

V

So if we do have a conflict internally, where one can suggest that hey, you have a single family and.

V

You have an adu somehow that equals a two-family use, because of maybe how the definition was.

V

Written in 1970 of a two family use in the back of the ordinance, I would suggest we amend the adu.

V

uh Ordinance to make it very clear that we don't consider an adu in a in or next to a single family.

V

Of two family use because they really aren't a two-family use. Two families can be condoed.

V

They can be, they can be sold off rented to anybody. There's no occupant owner occupancy requirements.

V

They are different animals, but I I appreciate the potential conflict between the table of uses.

V

And the definition uh and the adu ordinance that we currently have on the books.

V

um Secondarily there on the purpose and eligibility, the intention of the code is yeah.

V

You don't generally need municipal infrastructure when you're inserting adus, where there's already.

V

Roads pipes there are secondary lines for power and water and sewer, but you're you're, not building.

V

uh Trunk lines like you would in a new subdivision, so there's a there's a.

V

There's an efficiency that comes with adus, it is infill, and uh you know whether you're meeting.

V

Local needs or contributing to local needs. uh It's word smithing, but yeah. It's a contribution.

V

It's not the be-all end-all. That's going to solve all our affordable housing needs just doing. Adus.

V

So we could insert something like that into that paragraph for the purpose and eligibility.

V

And I I do think it's worth looking at the rsa or um how we're treating the requirements of meeting.

V

The local lot area and frontage requirements for adus and essentially waving that to open.

V

The spigot up here! So, if you, if you're on a lot, you don't need to meet portsmouth lot area for.

V

Dwelling unit and have twice the lot area to support an adu application because that's how.

V

It's been since 2017 and that that prevents a lot of people that have sufficient space to to have.

V

An adu either in their house or or in a detached situation, but they don't have twice as much land.

V

Area as the zoning requires, they have to do the adu and then on this subordination standards again.

V

That conditioned versus unconditioned space the target with uh the gla, the gla, is only for the.

V

Adu, the building itself still has to be gfa when you measure how big the building the adu.

V

Is in we want to use the whole building, we want to use the thickness of the walls, so we we need.

V

Both of those terms embedded in the ordinance- and we need to be consistent with condition.

V

Space and and lastly, we need to make sure that we remove the waiver possibility for a larger unit.

V

From the planning board's menu, if, if we truly don't want units over 750 square feet,.

V

I think that's that's it, and these words these next steps, were presented by rick, a.

V

Couple of weeks ago, speaking to the handbook and tracking these that are moving forward.

A

Questions for nick.

A

Andrew mr cocknow, to your point about aiding in meeting.

Q

But not overwhelming infrastructure and solving housing needs in the entire city.

Q

I think it's really important to dial in that language only because.

Q

We've often heard proposals come before us and as soon as the applicant feels pushed back or.

Q

Any sort of restraint from this board in regard to their plan, one of their first comments is well.

Q

This is going to contribute to the housing issue, the housing crisis so on and so forth, and so we.

Q

Want to keep that language consistent with our mission and vice versa. That mission should really.

Q

Help and enable I think, this board to make those decisions and point being, is we don't want to be.

Q

At a crossroads of well is this in the spirit of the ordinance and if the ordinance is saying.

Q

That adus are going to really solve and help and contribute. We want to make sure that that goes a.

Q

Line and that those jive so just understanding and really ensuring that that language.

Q

Makes sense for all parties, both applicants and us and the city is, is really critical in my mind, so.

Q

That's my thought on that and then lastly, on page uh 15 and section 10, 81463.

Q

um You know we talked about off street parking and uh modifying.

Q

Certain plans, but are we able to modify the overall size, and I know that you actually.

Q

Just use an example that we recently had um where it was an overwhelming plan, and so one.

Q

Of the largest comments was the actual size of the unit, the adu, and I'm wondering if, in that, certain.

Q

Line item we can modify the size of the adu without having to deny it outright.

V

So your question is presumably making a unit smaller. They can't be bigger than 750 square.

V

Feet if this, if this version of the ordinance was eventually adopted by the city council, so.

V

There's already there's already a governor on the size of the adu: it's it is expanded to the gla. So.

V

It's a little bit bigger than the gfa, but the subordination uh constraints or standards that.

V

Are in here that govern the size of the building, for example, a detached adu would be placed in.

V

Are substantially better than what we have today, which is essentially next to nothing.

V

So you could theoretically build today a 4, 000 square foot accessory building and stuff a 750.

V

Square foot adu inside it and then call all the rest parking and cold storage. And what have you.

V

A tool shed you're not going to be able to do that with this ordinance because of the subordination.

V

It can only be 75 percent of the height of the building beside it rather than something that's.

V

Shorter, which could be an inch it can't be more than 75 percent. The height can't be more than 75.

V

Percent of the the footprint the the volume of the building can't be more than 1600 square feet.

V

If it's multi-storied- and it still can only have a 750 square foot unit in it, so I think I think a.

V

Lot of the the problems that the current ordinance has presented to both you, the neighbors and the.

V

Community have really created an unbridled uh set of of uh circumstances that have allowed adus.

V

To be inserted into pretty big buildings and and to sort of game the system by calling certain.

V

Rooms, uh you know we don't have the condition space, we don't have the gla, so it gets difficult.

V

Sometimes, to differentiate between a living area and a non-living area and one's ability once they.

V

Get in there to start using the non-living area as living area, which goes afoul of the.

V

Of the code, so we've tried our best to create governors here. That'll allow you, the neighbors.

V

And the in the larger community to uh know what they're getting and and not have it gained.

V

If that answers your question, I think so I think my question is.

Q

More pointed at the modification when pursuing um make sure I get it right.

Q

So a modification of a specific standard set forth in sections.

Q

Eight four eight one, four, two, six, eight one, four three so on so forth, so.

Q

We can require additional off street parking. We can require that some of these modifications are.

Q

Consistent with the required sections, but the last one is modifying size, and even though they.

Q

May be under 750 square feet that still may not be consistent with what we feel is appropriate.

V

Well, I I'm not sure this is going to fully answer your question, but since you're in the.

V

Right section, uh which I think is 81463, where the waiver, so-called waiver provisions, are.

V

I think there's a section missing. We need to add to that, though you see in that paragraph, where.

V

It says accepting sections 10.81441 and 81442. I think we need to add eight one. Four three two.

V

Those three exceptions which mean you can't go there and waive those things. Those all pertain.

V

To the maximum size of the adus, the 600 and the 750., and that's the spirit here is to remove.

V

The the ability, if you want to to wave the size of these, to make them larger, not smaller, larger.

V

And our understanding was from two weeks ago we were working towards.

V

No bigger than 750 square feet, so I I would recommend you add 814.32 into that.

V

Into the parentheses that takes those away from the planning board being able to waive them.

V

Again, not really what you asked, but yeah I mean the lines.

V

If you want to waive the size, then you would strike all three of those.

Q

A

It yes I'd just like to make a suggestion. I actually was thinking.

B

We'd remove the exceptions that are listed there and maybe just the one in the height.

B

Could be added in so it could never be more than the 22 feet that we've sort of maxed out at, but.

B

If it's, I just keep thinking of belle isle and how it had one that was much bigger, but it was.

B

Appropriate based off of where it was located so giving the planning board the flexibility.

B

If a larger one came along and it made sense, you'd still have the ability to do that.

B

So either we strike out all of them and just give the planning board the ability for height.

B

And size of the unit they can, they don't have to. It would be completely up to the planning board.

Q

Suppose that's where it gets very subjective.

V

Just think you're, sorry, I can't respond to that real fast sure. Can you.

V

For that, I guess I did um my read says those two accepted sections are off the table.

V

From the planning board, that's my read of it! So if you struck them, then you you're back kind of.

V

Where you started being able to waive anything anywhere and maybe have a lot more requests here,.

V

From this podium than you're comfortable with because they're not on bell island.

V

Belle isle, so that that is a policy decision. I think you either need to add in this third.

V

Height this size, governor here for um the reference I just gave you or take them all out.

R

Sure I I just wanted to it, maybe as a way to when we're considering you know changing this language.

R

The the cover slide to your presentation, maybe if we could go to it, that might be a good visual aid.

R

Anything that supports the first three words on that cover slide, which is to.

R

Say yeah. The second slide. Sorry number two. He has the first words to remove barriers.

R

And provide reflect, I I think that what we were trying to say is to simplify we're.

R

Trying to simplify this process and make it more clear and flexible right.

R

So I I would just always the test for me would always be: does it do any of these minor changes.

R

That we're making make it harder or clearer or easier to so I would. I would argue that removing.

V

The discretion makes it easier on the public and the applicant because they're not enticed.

V

To come in here and negotiate the size of their adu one by one case by case there will be cases.

V

Like belle isle, where they, where it's appropriate yeah, but maybe they need another pathway than to.

V

Allow everybody to come in here and say I want to do 800, 850. and and they're spending a lot.

V

Of money to get to this position and if it's not something that's going to be regularly supported.

V

That's a ceiling and it's clear what it is. Maybe you need a variance if you're going over.

V

But anyway, that's one way to interpret the barrier question.

S

Yes, peter nick. Thank you. This is a great summary and and overview of the the.

U

Document that we had provided, I I asked why can't we get these presentations in advance.

U

For review on our end like this one, yes uh well, I I take responsibility for that. I I.

V

Was out sick for the week? It's not an excuse. I didn't get this done until today. It's hard.

U

I get it it's a really helpful document and it would help me in my preparation and.

V

Point well taken, I I almost and we have to all our presenters at bring that are builders or.

U

Developers coming in have to provide that information to us. It should be part of our.

U

Preparation requirements note noted yeah jim mr cartel. um I noticed one of the new terms.

I

Between last what january, 30th and today was gfa versus gla. Yes, could you go through the thought.

I

Process of why you felt that was needed or how it was going to help us or help the adu ordinance.

V

So the the thought was with gla the live it gross living area.

V

Was that it's it's very easy to define when somebody's got an application and they're.

V

Showing you a floor plan, it's easy to define where that habitable space, where the condition space the.

V

Living space is going to be in the unit where it gets tricky with gross floor area, which is the.

V

Current standard is it's not clear where the adu is and isn't inside the building. If the building.

V

Is much bigger than just an adu? It has the garage the tool shed, the storage area, the the rec room.

V

um It's more difficult to judge, I think, if you're with a gfa, if everything's, all gfa and you're not.

V

Defining where the adu is and isn't it it it's just easier to see where it is and it's easier to.

V

Enforce it, should it bleed into those other areas uh which I'm telling you happens not necessarily.

V

Just here it happens all over the country with gfa and far standards that people have and.

V

You know plum island's a great example in newburyport people put caller ties in their.

V

Attic and these pieces, that would you know, be six feet and the building code is six foot three or.

V

Eight or something for the ceiling they get their occupancy permit, then they they're almost on wing.

V

Nuts and they take them all out and they've got habitable space in the attic that wasn't.

V

Allowed under the ordinance and it's difficult to get to I'm not saying gla is going to you.

V

Know solve all those problems, but you know we're trying to get to identifying very clearly when.

V

Someone's here and you're up there, where is the unit? How big is the unit and not get into.

V

Storage, well, that's a storage room, all the stairs don't count or the utility room doesn't count.

I

Expression gla helps prevent gaming. The system, I think so I think it helps prevent yes, helps. Okay,.

P

Jane yeah, so we're still just asking him questions right, not making comments.

F

I just want it to be clear about that. This is different than an application.

A

Before so, you can talk more okay, well, there's some things that I've read in.

F

Here that are are tiny comments. I mean tiny edits, but maybe important like, for instance,.

F

In your opening part, section 10.440, the table of uses you're still saying that there's four.

F

Categories of detached adus and now there's three: it's a tiny thing, but you know important and then.

F

More substantial is I, I still think when we move to purpose and eligibility that.

F

That upfront, paragraph, which I know you've also spoken to it, just needs to be more explicit and.

F

um It needs to be explicit about what it is for, and it needs to be explicit about what it is now.

F

Because again I don't see the language around shall not be used for short-term rentals, which.

F

I think is really critical to adus, also like throughout this document, and I think I get it.

F

Because I mean it's architectural language, but you use the terms or we all have used the terms.

F

Principal residence principle structure- sometimes it's even principal family, but actually I think.

F

What we're talking about for adus is legal primary residence that the owner must have one of those.

F

Either the home or the adu to be their legal primary residence and, and that is a.

F

Legal terms, so I think that that needs to appear somewhere as much as the not short-term rentals.

F

um So then, when you move down to.

F

um I have now obliterated 10.814 point three three. I I still think there's so many negatives in these.

F

Sentences that why don't you just say what you say in the little comment box, an existing accessory.

F

Building converted to a dadu continues to be governed by the yard standards for accessory.

F

Buildings, because it is really confusing- I mean I keep reading it over and over that it.

F

That a detached accessory dwelling unit that is not re not created within an existing accessory.

F

Building is not an accessory building for purposes of the ordinance. I don't know.

F

I I don't think that makes this more simplistic or more easy to read or more easy to move through.

F

That some of the language is really convoluted and then in the next section, are we basically saying.

F

That all garages, any garage can be converted to a to a dadu as long as it meets the size.

F

Requirements and all the others standardized requirements, basically we're saying yes right.

V

Yeah I mean if they meet the standard sure so that open that that fact alone opens up.

F

Additional housing options tremendously in this town. That's to me, that's it.

F

um Again, on 10.814.

F

0.22 we're saying the accessory unit shall be occupied either the principal dwelling.

F

Unit or the accessory drawing unit will be occupied by the owner of the dwelling. As his.

F

Or her principal place, but I think it's legal primary residence. I mean, if you're paying, if.

F

You're, if you're stipulating to the irs that this is where you live full time.

F

And you're paying taxes on that, then it's your primary residence and we can look at that. I think.

F

F

On 10.814.26, it says at least one off street parking space shall be provided.

F

But shouldn't that be a maximum like it, it shouldn't be stated as a minimum.

F

We're just saying you only get one: it's both the minimum and a maximum.

F

It's it right, so you could strike at least I think you should take at least out of there.

F

um Many other changes were made. I mean, I think this is a great next revision. Don't get me wrong.

V

um On that, on that paragraph, that's where I was suggesting the the number two be struck.

V

Yeah just say uh in addition to the spaces that are required for the principal in case, it's a.

V

Very small house yeah, it doesn't require two spaces. I really agree with that.

F

Then I it just a point that I'm confused about 10.815.422.

F

um Yeah it talks about the detached adu.

F

Or has doors higher than eight feet above grade facing and adjacent property, so this is all.

V

About privacy, yes- which I really I think it's a great point but then further down on 10.814.32.

F

um The height can't, you know, can't be greater than 22 feet, but.

F

How do you get? Those are two different buildings. Potentially the first one you read, 422 yeah is.

V

A building a detached adu, that's with that's, located within a side or rear yard. So it's in.

V

A non-conforming situation I see and that other one may not be yep that answers that that's great.

F

I I thought maybe we could put in something in this architectural section so like 10.814.622,.

F

623-624 somewhere in there, I really like the language about the privacy and everything, but.

F

I thought there needed to be something about the character of the neighborhood, so that.

F

Yes, it's similar in appearance to the principal building, but also.

F

In agreement harmony, I don't know what the right term is with the character of the neighborhood yep.

S

I mean if you look at uh 6.64, it says the ad will maintain a compatible relationship to.

G

Adjacent properties in terms of location, design that might capture the surrounding neighborhood.

F

Scan that wording about primary residence in 10.814.71.

V

., so in in just before you go back to the primary residence on 624. What peter just.

V

Read it certainly wouldn't hurt to insert the word character between uh compatible relationship uh to.

V

The the character of adjacent properties, right yeah, something like that yeah we can insert that.

A

Are you pretty well done, jane or dude.

A

You get another chance if you find something else: okay, yep, yes, joe. Could I just simply.

R

Since we're right, we're speaking on, you know, architectural requirements and standards and.

R

I I was going to bring up the point that I don't necessarily understand the need, the the.

R

Statements that insist that the character of the adu um match the character of the existing.

R

Structure there could be instances where it's not allowing for for uh for a different architectural.

R

Expression or a contemporary expression or a maybe the existing character of the existing.

R

Structure is subpar to what the you know. The adu could be better than it. I just don't. I don't.

R

Understand the um we're delving a little bit into an architectural review board here, which we're not.

R

Really qualified to do that's not what we do and is there a limit to how much architectural review.

R

Be should be giving to these projects. Is there? Is there? Is there actual legal limit? Is there.

R

Do we because this is not an acc? It's not a heritage district, there's only so much.

R

Architectural review that I think we're allowed to do is that not true we are allowed there's.

A

I don't have it in front of me, I can dig it out. There is a. There was a case on this and.

A

The gentleman from the municipal association pointed it out. I asked him about it at one of.

A

Our meetings, I'm not sure if you were there, it might have been before you came on the board.

A

um This board does have a set of control. Now it's redundant and sort of like double.

A

Jeopardy in the htc, because the htc clearly has that in a historic district.

A

But we don't have guidelines for most of the city. So how do you apply a standard when you.

A

Have no objective criteria: it's not fair! So that's what that's what this is about now, if.

A

You don't like it that's a different topic, but I do think there is authority for it.

C

um I I would also argue that I think, if this is the spirit in which you approach architectural.

V

Design review you're all qualified to do this because you have a frame of reference in what.

V

You're looking at if your goal is to create contemporary and modern expressions where.

V

They don't currently exist, then I, I think the points well taken, but those are the exact kinds.

V

Of projects that are creating the most problems in getting through this permitting process today,.

V

Because they clash and they often are not well executed, I mean we have 37 of them to look at.

V

And the least successful projects are the ones trying to deviate in a substantive way from.

V

The architectural style of the of the principal structure which that single family is, it's meant.

V

To be the dominant structure- and I think it's fair your point that yeah somebody could come.

V

Up with an amazing contemporary expression for a garden cottage or an a unit in the backyard.

V

But the pos, the fact that that possibility exists is not what we're seeing in the frequency of that.

V

Event being proposed and done well is so low. We've got to think about the greater good of.

V

Lowering barriers and not having everything, be wide open because we, god forbid we're going to.

V

Give up one great idea that hasn't arrived yet and force them down a different pathway. That's.

V

Maybe a little harder, whether it's belle isle, doing a big building or somebody moving here.

V

From new york city, that's got the the money, the budget and the talent to pull off a building that.

V

Doesn't look anything like the one they're trying to put it beside we'll find a way to.

V

Get that person through this process when they come but leaving it wide open, is not doing it.

V

We got 37 applications and only 13 built, but it actually what it all goes back to is the.

B

Fact that we still want these neighborhoods to look like single-family neighborhoods, so.

B

If you have two structures on one property, that don't look anywhere alike, then the idea.

B

In someone's brain walking by is well, that's too fam. That's two different houses on the.

B

Same lot, so the theory behind trying to make these all very similar or inconsistency with.

B

Their principal structures is through the look of oh, we still have a single family.

B

Neighborhood, that's that's the idea behind trying to give the guidance to that and the consistency.

I

um I believe I don't obviously have the rsa memorized, but I believe the state I would say.

I

On adu speaks of architectural consistency, I'm not sure, um and also I I've come to.

I

Come to know that the city of concord believe it or not, that.

I

In order to get an adu in concord, you have to go through the planning board.

I

And then, once the planning board approves it, it goes to a separate architectural review board.

I

So that's how important least concord thought architectural consistency was for adus.

I

Turn, I think we think it's important too jim and the reason we think it's important is we as the.

F

Planning board are guided by the master plan and the master plan has entire chapters on preserving.

F

The character of neighborhoods in this town, so I think it's the explicit answer to having some.

F

Modernistic impressionistic, whatever attached to a traditional house, is no. It would not be voted.

F

Through and we do have the right to that degree of architectural oversight- I mean I'm not pretending.

F

To be an architect, but you can look very easily start going through neighborhoods and see. Is the.

F

Character of the neighborhood changing or not, and I also really agree with what beth said.

F

Does it look like you know it's one property, or is it starting to look like multiple properties.

F

Which we don't want, so I really disagree. We do have architectural oversight to that degree.

A

We need to hear from the public and I'm going to make a suggestion based on part.

A

What nick said and what I'm hearing from the board members I'm? I don't like going line by.

A

Line on a committee basis on a document, but I'm thinking we might need to do that here and we.

A

Have this room a week from tonight so while the public is speaking, think about whether you want.

A

To get through this, because I I would like to see us get through this and present it to the council.

A

As a recommended document, if we can do that- and it's been- it's been a while so think about.

A

Whether you're willing to do that next week, I'm going to public hearing will continue to tonight.

A

I'm going to open it up now, so anybody would like to speak too far against these zoning amendments.

O

Good evening peter huda, 280 south street, so as the board had noted, I don't know what version.

O

I have, I don't know what version you have so and I don't know what version nick has.

O

So I I'll make some comments and I hope I'm using the version that everybody's looking at.

O

um And I don't want to make this too long, because I don't know if I am.

O

um Ten, eight one, four one, two uh basically my comment here.

O

Is uh your two sentences say the same thing twice.

O

Number 814.26, uh I think, jane hit this, and I think this her comments were good.

O

um My only comment on 814 1081426 is the off street parking. uh Unless you want to get a cup.

O

So my question is um at that point: in time: are you giving the planning board the ability to.

O

um Adjust the parking spaces here, the the purpose of this is really not clear to me.

O

uh 81422, uh I know we did change from uh gfa to gla.

O

um The question I have is on the box on the side and adu up to 750 square feet is permitted uh and.

O

Then we note uh use 1.211. I could not find 1.211 or 1.212 if somebody could define what that is and.

O

uh What that actually means uh is this something that is different than what we're looking at here.

O

um On 814.331, uh the last sentence, um one door shall be designed as a principal residence.

O

Entrance and the other door shall be signed to appear secondary, um who makes that call.

O

Okay on 814.452 and 814 dot 333 um in five two you're just talking about the building.

O

Height and the next one you talk about the footprint, so it's not the same statement.

O

Here I don't understand why they're together and um the old statement was, was no increase.

O

In the building footprint, but the new one says includes an increase in the building.

O

Footprint adus are not supposed to increase the the building footprint or it's an addition.

O

On uh 10 815-421.

O

uh uh An existing accessory building shall not be expanded either vertically or horizontally.

O

Other than through the addition of the front, entryway 50 feet, 300 feet.

O

um This is basically extending your footprint with a cup, so the question is why.

O

10814-432, uh basically, it's a redundant statement.

O

At the end, the building height of the building containing the dadu shall be.

O

Greater than 22 feet in height building height in height just a little word, there.

O

O

This I'm still having trouble with the numbers here. If you could, please clarify.

O

If this is above a garage with gfa for two floors, um the two floors would be 800.

O

Square feet the gross floor area of the of the building containing the dadu shall be no greater.

O

Than 1600 square feet, where, in the paragraph and all over we're limiting everything to 750.

O

um If you're above a garage is that mean the garage can only be 800 if you divide 1600 by 2,.

O

um That's what you're going to get so and it could be 75 percent of the gross floor area.

O

Of the principal dwelling, whichever is less, um this is not simple folks. It's confusing.

O

um The only other comment I would have is on the notification process. I think we're going.

O

Maybe a little overboard here on the butter notice and putting all this on the applicant.

O

The applicants shall also provide a sign notice. That's great certified mail. We do.

O

Not you do certified mail for notifications of a butters for anything else, so why would we require.

O

Them to do certified, that's an increased expense on that. That's just my question.

O

And the same old question on administrative approvals, I.

O

Noted last time that you, you said it, I have asked two or three times um I do not support.

O

um Administrative approvals going only through the planning director. I think that is a job.

O

Of the planning board- and I will say it again and I will say it in front council.

O

O

The only note I had here was: what does this mean? The adu complies with all the applicable.

O

Standards of this section, 814, except as modified by the conditional use permit.

O

I don't know what that means.

O

um 814-622 uh exterior design of the adu is architecturally consistent with.

O

Similar with or similar appearance to, the ex the principle dwelling on the lot.

O

um Jane I I liked your comment on the neighborhood. The only question I have there.

O

Is who makes this call? Is somebody going to go out and inspect this and make this judgment call.

O

um And the last one 1081463.

O

um Granting the conditional use permit and you leave out some. I know this was discussed, but.

O

um This looks like it's very vague and it creates a possible loophole here.

O

So that was the end of my comments and thank you for listening. Thank you.

E

Evening, liza hewitt 726 middle road. I still have some questions that I hope can be addressed. I.

E

Find it hard to believe that, after six months of work at the land use committee, you're still.

E

Making changes to the wording of the document, so I am glad that you're going to go you're going.

E

To continue to to take a look at this, this adu ordinance has the potential for making.

E

Significant changes to neighborhoods in the city and you need to get it right.

E

um I appreciate the further explanation tonight. I I left the last meeting extremely confused.

E

Even after sitting through five months of land use committee meetings, um so I'm glad there was some.

E

Further explanation it was, it became a little more clear. um You know I before I got here, I I.

E

Had kind of questioned what had happened between january 30th and now that would require changes.

E

uh Such as changing the phrase gross floor area to gross living area, I understand it a little.

E

Bit better now, I just hope: there's nothing tricky hidden in there and why did you change.

E

The phrase entire building to just building in several places, including as it relates to height.

E

um I've asked for months as to why the lot area requirements now combine the dwelling unit and the.

E

Adu- and I got a little bit of an answer tonight, but the way the ordinance has been revised will.

E

Drastically impact the infill in neighborhoods and as a resident, I would just like to hear some.

E

Discussion from the planning board on the thought behind drastically reducing the necessary lot size.

E

um Finally, my vote would be for making the language clearer and not allowing the leeway.

E

And the exceptions um at the rate, this is going that housing navigator is going to certainly.

E

Have their work cut out for them if they are going to develop a guidebook to explain this to.

E

People as they're going through this process, because it is confusing. Thank you. Thank you.

G

There's one person, but please.

P

Esther kennedy, 41 pickering ave um and I'm gonna, keep it real simple. I do believe it should go.

P

Through the planning board, um I think that it allows people to have any neighbors can look.

P

At it have a question: it's not sex doesn't look like it's being snuck through the city, so I really.

P

Think it allows people to be part of the process and I don't see any reason to hide a process. So I.

P

Would encourage you to do that for the record and I want to put it on the record. But I am worried.

P

About 80s and to be honest with you, I'd love to do one, so I respect them. However, I heard something.

P

Very interesting the other day and when I followed up, we heard from nick tonight. But it's not.

P

um Two dwellings, however, when I followed up, because I was at a closing with a banker and.

P

If it has a kitchen or even a kitchenette, if it has a closet, if it has a bedroom.

P

It has a bathroom, it can be considered. Second dwelling and two dwellings on one property.

P

Will limit some funniest companies so for what we want to do for now?.

P

And maybe it might be a quick fix. My worry is that people will not be able to afford these.

P

In the second round, the young home buyer that needs fannie mae or freddie mac.

P

So I took it and I went to a couple of real estate agencies just to kind of follow up and.

P

Kind of get their thoughts on it and they most definitely agree for veterans loans.

P

So what we think we're doing to add property, I would really encourage you to investigate.

P

We might be short selling ourselves, so people coming after us will not be able to buy a house.

P

Or buy at this house, so um that is my short-term investigation in the whole.

P

Thing, but it really worries me that when we think of some of our homes up in elwyn park,.

P

First time home buyers can buy and I know things are pricey now, but I also have seen.

P

The market take a major dive in years past. Hence the reason I was able to portsmouth.

P

Are we setting ourselves up so that, first time home buyer can't get a loan.

P

So I would again encourage you all to look into it. I never really put much thought into.

P

It until I started investigating it, because the comment that was made when I asked about.

P

It at a real estate closing- and um I guess I just don't- want to set us up and I don't want.

P

To have the next generation be set up because of a decision we made today. So thank you. Thank you.

M

Elizabeth ryder property owner 159 mcnair street, it's obvious that they still needs to be more.

M

Cleaning up to the language and making it a little clearer and easier to understand. I think that.

M

um Maybe we should hype petra to do this to work with nick, because obviously she picks up.

M

Even more details than I do and that's wonderful but, generally speaking, I think we are moving in a.

M

Direction that is new for this city. I think that um adding anything to your home, if you've done.

M

Any work anywhere, I have two projects going on in two different cities and I'm ready to shoot myself.

M

But the cost is phenomenal and I believe that an adu may be helpful if you have a family member.

M

That you have to take care of, and they may provide an opportunity for people who have not very much.

M

Money coming in when they get elderly to be able to rent out that space and be able to able to stay.

M

In portsmouth and maybe afford the taxes which is going to be a huge issue, as our valuation goes up,.

M

I don't necessarily believe they will become usable housing for someone young moving into.

M

The neighborhood, because I think, in order to build them, they will be very expensive. But I.

M

Think making them available to people is an idea, I don't think everybody's going to do it and I think.

M

Some people will not like it because of the fact that you are going to change single-family homes.

M

I recently wrote a letter to our legislator, legislator's body um to remind them that we.

M

Don't have to take single-family home areas and turn them into four dwellings, because that takes.

M

Away the idea you pay extra to move into a single family home and have a yard and a place for your.

M

Kids to play and to have neighbors who are not right on top of you, like those those of us who.

M

Are property down on mcdonough street, where you can hear the person across the street cough much.

M

Less have a conversation, so you do pay more money to have those and putting the adus in.

M

Those areas may or may not change the character of the neighborhood. This is an experiment and.

M

I agree that it is a necessary experiment to some levels, but I think the cost is going to.

M

Change the way they work and I think it is important that we do clarify all this wording.

M

That has been brought up by the public as well as you to make sure that what we're presenting.

M

To the city, council is something that we would really like in the city. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Anybody else present or by zoom if anyone on zoom would like to speak, please raise your hand.

A

More discussion guys thought about what I suggested a few minutes ago.

I

So could you kind of explain how that would work? um A meeting I mean. Is it like you said we just.

I

A new revision would be prepared, correct and then we'd get that at some point and we go through a.

I

Line by line, I think that's what we need to do and if the entire board doesn't want to do it.

A

That you know- and I I appreciate your frustration but that's what.

A

I'm hearing that was happening. We were going line by line different stages tonight.

A

I know lots of notes have been taken. I've taken a few peter's been taking a whole bunch. There's a.

A

Lot of comments, so I think there would be changes, but I think there's still some things to talk.

A

About that maybe a little bit in the weeds, but as as I heard, I think we do need to get it right.

A

I don't think it's that hard getting from where we are to a final product, but I think it's really.

A

Hard doing it like this, I think we have to sit at a table like there or in that room on the side.

A

That's what I was thinking.

A

Yes, beth um I'd be ready to make a motion with some um amendments to this, um but I I personally.

B

Think that we could clean up some of this through some amendments and and move it forward.

U

I hope to see you thank you, big reader, I'd hope to see the presentation provided and if there's any.

U

Revisions based on tonight have those included.

U

It's it's. I think it's it's important to have that stuff provided to us in advance for review.

A

Right, but to get, I think what council moreau is saying is she wants to propose a motion.

A

That basically says we're done yeah. Try to this would be interesting. I'm not sure how.

A

You can do it but you're going to make emotions so I'll leave that aspect of it.

A

Up to you uh to propose a motion that would incorporate changes to be passed on to staff.

A

And based on that, um come back to the board for a final vote.

C

Or uh no just some amendments to move forward a recommendation so you'd want to you'd want.

A

A planning board endorsement without seeing what they are but well telling. Well, I have.

B

Written down, but what your amendments are or going through them in more detail.

Q

At this point, I feel as though we've um gone through a lot of leg work and to have one more.

Q

Meeting to ensure that we go through it line by line, and I have a lot more confidence in.

Q

What we're recommending doesn't seem out of the question or out of the realm of realistic.

Q

Possibilities and I understand the motivation and the awesome behind counselors position, but.

Q

Good enough is not the same as as confidence, and so hopefully we can satisfy all of those question.

Q

Marks through one more reading push it forward with what we think is a rigging endorsement and.

Q

Feel really happy about it and satisfied.

A

Before you make your motion just anything, no I just gotta say I don't think we're ever going.

B

To make everyone all happy, no, by no means that's just it's the fact of the matter. You can't make.

B

Everyone happy some people don't want these to be permitted by use or administrative approval.

B

And I can tell you that city council is never going to approve something that doesn't have.

B

Some as permitted use- I just I've, heard it over and over again that was actually what we.

B

Were tasked to come up with, and so that's one of the things that is just not. I don't think.

B

It's going to be feasible to get through on the other end, so yeah. I can certainly.

Q

See your position- and I empathize with that as you're, the one that has really stewarded this.

Q

um But as we sit here and go through certain changes to me, the way that the chairman has.

Q

Presented going through line by line, although it's one more meeting and some more time.

Q

That will ultimately give the balance of where everyone is.

Q

Standing and thinking about each line item and by the end of that meeting, I think that'll be fairly.

Q

Clear, where we can go from there and people will feel a lot more heard more than anything.

A

um Okay, okay and then corey. I just had a quick question, so I.

F

Just want to assert that that meeting would be a public meeting. Oh yes, okay,.

D

Yeah, I guess my question was on that. um Do we then have to so it'd basically be? Do you see it being a.

D

Work work session with a public hearing or something of that nature and then voting.

D

On it to move it to council on the 16th next month or because I don't know about, I was just.

D

Wondering about public notice and all that stuff. I just brought up the statute to look and see.

A

What we might need to do in terms of the public hearing is still open, so it hasn't been closed.

A

um If the board or a quorum of the board was willing to do this, then it'd be a public meeting.

A

At which a vote could be taken at the end of that meeting to advance it to council, or it would come.

A

Back to the full board, if it was just a workshop smaller group, my preference would be to see you at.

A

Least a quorum to get through this. You know, rather than you know this paragraph, that paragraph and.

A

Just be able to sit closer to nick, so we can have a conversation, um and you know get these final.

A

Comments- and here we've got a number of comments from the public tonight too. I don't think anything.

A

These things are hard and I think, um picking up what beth said, I think there is a possibility.

A

That there can certainly be administrative approval of some things. I think it might. We.

A

Need to talk about that a little bit more! I think. That's just me um so this meeting that we speak of.

R

um It would be dedicated specifically to this topic correct it wouldn't be. We wouldn't have.

R

Any other items on the agenda. I had planned a meeting next week to talk about something else.

A

But that gets bumped off the table. I mean we we joke tonight about. You know wanting to be.

R

Brief- and we ask nick to be brief, and but the fact of the matter is we keep pushing him to.

R

The end of meetings and we're all tired, and so if, in order for that meeting to be successful,.

R

We'd we'd get the information well in advance and we would all really do our homework and go.

R

Through that individually and understand it fully, but we can, I mean, understand our questions fully.

R

And so we're not hearing things for the first time here and in general, you know.

R

Yes, but I think it's also not going to be we're not going to be given a final copy. I.

A

Think there'll be some edits happening at the meeting exactly so then I think the meeting.

R

Would be useful if that, if that's how it would happen, that's that's exactly what I was thinking.

A

But thank you for mentioning that and clarifying it.

I

Mr chair, just to be clear that the meeting you have in mind is a week from today.

A

We have this room next week, so next thursday, yes and.

I

How how far in advance do you think be reasonable to get the document they're going to be reviewing.

S

Saying tuesday I was going to say monday monday's a holiday. If you go this route, how about I get you.

V

Whatever the revised presentation is and that that's just the presentation.

V

You did have the ordinance in advance of tonight I'll get you the revised ordinance.

V

And whatever presentation material would go with it 48 hours before your meeting.

A

Sounds reasonable that that's end of business tuesday, then right everybody remember that.

A

Yes, jane yeah, I guess I would just ask that that actually does include clarity about lot.

F

Size, I thought that was a really good comment. I it's not a it's, not a comment that I can answer.

F

Even having read this document, so I just want to get more clarity about lot size. I think the extra.

F

Meeting is a good idea, but having said that, in all transparency, I'm actually traveling next week so.

F

I will not be here for the for that meeting and I don't know if that of you know looking at quorum.

F

Getting a quorum, etc. You could provide your comments if you're able to see them. I I really.

F

Feel, like my calm, my comp, though also tonight's, on a positive note, and there will be another draft.

A

And this is this is unlike a regular application. You can provide your comments. Okay, okay,.

A

Is that our plan? We continue this to next thursday.

A

Or I'm sorry, you wish to make a motion. I've been up.

B

I don't even think I'd get a second, so.

U

It doesn't make a motion want them to continue to the next meeting.

U

No to next week and we take a vote at that meeting- that's what I want.

B

If we can't take a vote at that meeting, I'm completely against doing this. That's the goal.

A

So we have a motion to continue the public hearing and our workshop to next thursday. A second.

A

At seven o'clock in this room is that correct.

U

And have nick's presentation provided to us two days in advance.

U

About the one from tonight, too, there'll be a new one.

U

Thank you all. Those in favor opposed, I'm opposed. I'm opposed promotion carries.

A

And let's hope it is the last discussion on this topic.

A

Thank you nick.

A

A

Right, the the next item is the 325 little harbor road, updated land management plan.

G

This is just for your information, as it was a condition of approval.

G

That any updates be provided to the playing board. So it's just you know for your information.

A

um I'm going to go really quickly through the last few things here. The.

A

Only update I'll have loops into the master plan. I have a discussion with the mayor about the.

A

Master plan he's interested and excited to have us working on that, and I mentioned the idea of trying.

A

To get the high school students involved he's interested in that I thought it was a great idea.

A

uh Superintendent and I have traded phone calls, he's excited about it, he's a civics teacher, so.

A

He's he's into it we're meeting tomorrow to talk about it to see how that might advance.

A

So part of and as the mayor said, it's not just students and I'm I'm completely.

A

In agreement with this, it's as many people, the most participation we can get the better. So it's.

A

Early in the process, but that's why I think it's important to have these conversations.

A

The the rules, if you folks, have had a chance to go through them and have any comments you can.

A

Get them to me, the legal department wants to go through them and they want to provide their input.

A

They didn't want us to vote on them tonight, so let's not do anything with them tonight, but if you.

A

Have any comments give them to them to me? Whatever can I make? Can we requests that they be reviewed.

B

By our legal department, that's what they're doing! Okay, because I have questions as to whether or not.

B

Everything that's in there is we're allowed to do so that they're it's in their hands, excellent yeah.

F

When do you need those supplies, is there a dead deadline? When would you like the comments on or.

F

Whatever, well, we won't it. It's there's only one thing on the agenda next week and those.

A

Are not going to be on the agenda, so it'll be at our march meeting so there's time. Okay,.

A

If there's nothing else, I'm going to adjourn the meeting we good good meetings adjourned. Thank you.