City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Planning Board, 30 Jan 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 1.30.2023 Planning Board Special Meeting

Description

1.30.2023 Planning Board Special Meeting

A

Your response good evening, everybody welcome to the january 30th 2023 meeting.

A

Of porcelain planning board calling the meeting to order peter harris.

A

Will not be joining us this evening. Andrew simonis will sit for peter.

A

I haven't heard from joe almeda. He may join us a little bit late. We have a.

A

Is this any better, just wasn't close enough! Thank you.

A

So I just called a meeting to order. Andrew simonis will be sitting for peter harris who won't be.

A

Joining us this evening, I'm not sure about joe almeda. He may join us late. This is a hunting board.

A

Public hearing and receipt of staff presentation on the proposed owning amendments for the.

A

Accessory drawing unit provisions of the zoning ordinance, the land use committee has been working.

A

On this topic for about a year and would have been working with rick tanner and the planning.

A

Staff and others mr tanner, is here to present. He will begin the meeting with his presentation on.

A

What the proposed amendments contain I'll open the public hearing after that and the public.

A

Hearing is going to stay open through board comment, so the public have an opportunity to.

A

Speak after staff presentation and after board comment, mr tanner, would you like to present.

B

um As the chair mentioned, I'm rick tainter I've been working with the assisting the land use.

B

Committee and the planning department staff- probably since about august, I think I started.

B

Getting involved going through the revision of the city's zoning ordinance provisions.

B

Regarding accessory dwelling units and garden apartments, two sections of the ordinance and.

B

It was quite a comprehensive revision. I'm going. This is going to be a long, but really.

B

Collapsed uh presentation, I'll try to do is give you the high points, and then we can talk about.

B

Any questions as we go along so go over the next slide, please peter. So the the purpose of this of.

B

These changes uh were, there were really three purposes and they were set out. um I think in.

B

The original charge to the land use committee um to remove barriers and provide more flexibility.

B

For the creation of accessory dwelling units to strengthen provisions to ensure that adus fit into.

B

Established neighborhood patterns and to minimize any adverse impacts on abutting properties.

B

And to simplify the ordinance and to make it easier for users to understand and navigate.

B

The ordinance you may not agree with that when you see it, but that's the intent in brief, I'm.

B

Not going to go through all of these at this point we're going to go through all of these.

B

Throughout the presentation in the use table, we added more detail to the use table and a big.

B

Thing was folding the garden cottages provisions into the into the use table into the category of.

B

Accessory dwelling units, so we no longer, we will no longer have a garden cottage category.

B

um We added information about the purpose and and tried to clarify the eligibility of properties.

B

To support accessory dwelling units, we have standards uh three sections of standards. I.

B

Think there was one section of standards to begin with, but because we added quite a few.

B

Standards, we felt it necessary to break it into three uh headings, so there's standards.

B

That apply to all accessory dwelling units which relate to things like ownership and.

B

Owner occupancy maximum number of bedrooms and the off-street parking requirements and then.

B

Separate sets of standards for attached, adus and for detached adus and then there's a new.

B

Section on architectural design standards, which has been beefed up quite a bit from the previous.

B

Draft revised standards for review and approval and for post-approval requirements next year.

B

Next slide: here we go okay, so in the table of uses we have, there was there previously was just one.

B

Category for attached dwelling unit, it's actually accessory dwelling units and the new proposed.

B

Revision breaks us into two types of attached: edus. The first type is up to 750 square feet of.

B

Gross floor area and entirely within an existing single-family dwelling unit, so you just take an.

B

Existing home and you carve out a piece of it as it is attached accessory dwelling unit and then.

B

The second subcategory is more than 750 square feet or expansion, or addition to an existing.

B

Building an existing principle single single family dwelling unit, now the one the the first.

B

Category up to 750 square feet and entirely within uh an existing single-family dwelling is proposed.

B

To be allowed in by right in seven uh seven zoning districts, those are all the residential districts.

B

Except for the garden apartment district and then the mixed residential districts and the.

B

Cd4 character, districts and um and then by a conditional use permit in the gateway districts.

B

The ones with more than 750 square feet or an expansion or addition to existing dwelling unit.

B

Is in the same zoning districts, but all of them would require a conditional use permit. So there's.

B

An additional level of um control or review for larger accessory dwelling units or those that.

B

Involve some type of structural change to the existing single family development next slide.

B

Please then, under detached accessory dwelling units, we have four different subcategories.

B

And the um the first one is really similar to the existing garden cottage provision in the ordinance.

B

So we're in place of garden cottage. We would have this detached accessory dwelling unit up to 600.

B

Square feet and in an existing accessory building that complies with all standards for accessory.

B

Buildings, so if you had a a garage- and it was compliant with all the setbacks for accessory.

B

Buildings and and height and so forth, then it could be converted into a detached accessory.

B

Dwelling unit of up to 600 square feet, and that would be by right in the seven districts this the.

B

Residential districts, mixed residential districts and the cd4 districts, the second subcategory is up.

B

To 600 square feet in an existing accessory building, where, in cases where the building.

B

Doesn't comply with all exist all standards for an accessory dwelling for an accessory structure.

B

Or requires a modification of the standards or a variants or includes an expansion. And so that.

B

Would be permitted in the same zone districts but by conditional use permit only the third category.

B

um Those first two again are existing accessory buildings. The third and fourth categories are a.

B

New accessory buildings or new structures that would house an accessory dwelling unit and the.

B

The first or the third category here is up to 750 square feet in a new building that complies with.

B

All the lot and building dimensional standards for a single family dwelling so where the the top blue.

B

uh Blue category there is about the stat complying with the standards for an accessory structure. The.

B

The third one down the second blue category is: it must comply with all the standards for a single.

B

Family dwelling so larger setbacks, for example, and that would require conditional use permit.

B

In the same seven districts, and then the final one is the the most uh the largest one up to up.

B

To one thousand square feet gross floor area in a new building that either does not comply with a.

B

Dimensional standard for a single family dwelling, or that requires any variance to construct it and.

B

That would only be allowed in three residential dis or five residential districts. The the rural.

B

The single residents, the two single residence districts and gra and grb okay next slide in.

B

The purpose and eligibility section we there's a revised purpose section. That explains why.

B

um Why what the purpose of these edus is and has to increase the supply of smaller, more.

B

Affordable housing units without the need for more infrastructure or further land development to meet.

B

Local housing needs and provide opportunities for adapted reuse of existing accessory structures.

B

And it says the standards are intended to integrate more housing options into the.

B

Community with a minimal negative impact on the surrounding neighborhood, there's some tweaks to.

B

The language in the purpose section and and then a clarification that because portsmouth has uh as.

B

You, I'm sure you know, has um something that many communities don't have not only a minimum lot area.

B

But also a minimum lot area per dwelling unit in the ordinance, and so this clarifies that accessory.

B

Dwelling units are subject to all applicable municipal standards for single-family dwellings,.

B

Zoning and zone non-zoning, and that comes out of the state law, with the with two exceptions.

B

One is the it does not need to comply with the minimum lot area per dwelling unit, so it.

B

Needs to comply with a minimum lot area, but not the minimum lot area per dwelling unit.

B

And that accessory existing accessory buildings don't have to comply with the requirements for.

B

Single-Family dwellings, they have to comply with the dimensional controls for accessory structures.

B

Next, one of the big things that came out of the discussions uh it had to do with off-street.

B

Parking- and so this really clarifies we hope that um parking has to be required. So you have the two.

B

Spaces for the existing single family dwelling and then for an accessory dwelling unit up to 750.

B

Square feet: you would need one additional parking space and for over 750 square feet. You would need.

B

Two additional parking spaces. So that means, if you have a an accessory dwelling unit with um that's.

B

That's a smaller accessory dwelling unit under 700 under 50 square feet. uh The owner would have.

B

To supply a minimum of three off street parking spaces and for a larger adu, the owner would have.

B

To supply four parking spaces go ahead uh so now getting into the the revised standards- and I said.

B

There's a there's quite a few: some of them are tweaks. Some of them are are more uh substantive.

B

um We've carried forward here well, first of all, we've said that that a uh an accessory dwelling.

B

Unit can be increased up up to a thousand square feet by a conditional use permit in certain cases.

B

um We've also specified in this section that there's no more than two bedrooms.

B

To for any accessory dwelling unit- um and I'm sorry it was, did we skip this.

B

Space here no, I guess we didn't sorry um I'll, just wing it here.

B

um And then we included an affidavit of restriction for the owner occupancy in the.

B

um It has to be recorded in the registry of deeds to to enforce that now in this slide, so.

B

The uh attached accessory dwelling units can be increased in florida up to a thousand square feet.

B

By conditional use permit this simply repeats uh the second subcategory of accessory dwelling units.

B

In the use table um and then there there are new standards that relate to the idea of subordination.

B

Of the the attached accessory dwelling unit to the the principle, uh the single family dwelling.

B

And the subordination talks about where doors are located, um talks about if they're an addition or.

B

Expansion has to be either recessed or projected at least eight 18 inches from the existing front.

B

Wall, so you don't get a really long front wall to the building any garage. That's added has to.

B

Be recessed at least 10 feet from the existing front wall, so you so the house isn't dominated.

B

By a garage facing the street um and then there was a lot of discussion about how to deal with.

B

um Height and horizontal expansions and the last two bullets here really deal with that.

B

uh Single family single story, dwelling like a ranch house, can be expanded either vertically.

B

By one story to to have the accessory dwelling unit or horizontally, in which case, there's no.

B

Increase in building height, so that's the first bullet for singles, a single story, dwelling for a.

B

Non-Single story dwelling an addition or expansion uh that includes a horizontal, a vertical expansion.

B

That includes a horizontal expansion must be no higher than the or I'm sorry, a horizontal expand.

B

Any horizontal expansion must be no higher than 75 percent of the height of the existing structure.

B

And um I think that pretty much covers there's a lot of complications in the ways we looked.

B

At this, and and we revised a lot of the uh the language in that section, moving ahead to detached.

B

um And I want to say, there's a mistake here: the second item here: maximum expansion of.

B

Existing existing accessory building- that's a mistake. You should ignore that.

B

um The uh what we, what we did here is say that the maximum again, the maximum size of a detached.

B

Adu is 750 square feet unless a conditional use permit is granted to increase it to a thousand.

B

Square feet, but probably more important. The maximum size of the building containing the.

B

Detached edu is 1600 square feet or 75 or 75 percent of the principal building's floor.

B

Area, so what that means is you could have a 750 square feet: foot adu on an upper level of a larger.

B

Building but the the sum of all the floors of the building could not exceed uh 1600 square feet.

B

B

That's good, um so a new detached accessory dwelling unit has to be placed at least 10.

B

Feet further from the front lot line than an existing building, the building height.

B

No greater than 22 22 feet uh in if the. If the detached accessory dwelling unit.

B

Is taller than the principal building, so in other words, if the if the existing building.

B

Is a single story: that's less than 22 feet um hi! Then there has to be increased setbacks from all.

B

Property lines uh based on that change on that difference in height um the building.

B

Footprint for a detached accessory dwelling unit can't be greater than 750 square feet.

B

um So, that's again, that's looking at the entire building, not just the the unit within the building.

B

uh The building with the building and the phrasing is wrong there. The building within which the dadu.

B

Is located can be no greater than 1600 square feet? I've covered that already and then dormer.

B

If their dormers are added to the roof of an attached accessory dwelling unit, they can.

B

Only be outside required setbacks and no more than one-third of the booth plane area and the.

B

Reason for being outside the required setbacks is for privacy for budding property owners.

B

um And then just kind of general requirements that the adu comply with all drainage and lighting.

B

Requirements at the zoning ordinance and with minimum building separation.

B

Requirements of the building code- okay, there are detailed architectural design standards.

B

um That are that I'm not really going to get into it. Just they just say that the the building has to.

B

Be the same or similar to the existing principle, building with respect to the to the items that.

B

Are listed here, the bulleted items, and that if the items on the right are provided, which are.

B

They're not provided in all accessory buildings, they again have to be the same or similar to the.

B

Corresponding elements on the principal building, so it's it's our architectural design, consistency.

B

With the existing principle building, not necessarily with with surrounding areas, okay.

B

So I guess the uh I don't have a slide for the review and approval process.

B

um But there's a there's a detailed process about public notice for.

B

um That a an application for an accessory dwelling unit has been has been or will be submitted.

B

um And then the there's, a determination uh by the planning director as to whether the adu complies.

B

With the requirements, if there's a, if there's a a an adu that shows in the use table as a p,.

B

Is a permitted use and the planning department planning director finds that it does not comply.

B

With some provision, then it automatically gets bumped to a conditional use. Permit.

B

And then there were findings for the planning board to to make regarding accessory drawing.

B

Units before granting a conditional use permit, uh it has to the adu, has to comply with all the.

B

Applicable standards, the exterior design is consistent with the principle dwelling. The.

B

Site plan provides adequate, appropriate open space and landscaping and complies with the off-street.

B

Parking requirements and the adu will maintain a compatible relationship to adjacent properties.

B

In terms of location, design, off-street parking and that's actually in the existing ordinance.

B

And then the planning board can can modify standards and that's also in.

B

The existing ordinance and then there are these post-approval requirements, which are really the.

B

uh Pretty much the same as as in the existing uh ordinance, no, no significant change there and.

B

um Yes, then, we made uh changes some some small changes to the off-street parking requirements.

B

So this is not in the article 8 section. This is an article 11 and the change was essentially.

B

To uh there's an exemption for um for single and two family dwellings or actually yeah for single.

B

And two family dwellings regarding the location of parking spaces and we're just including the.

B

Parking spaces that that are associated with the accessory dwelling unit in that exemption and then.

B

There are minor revisions to the definition of accessory building structure uh detached.

B

Accessory dwelling unit and deletion of the term garden cottage, that is a quick summary.

A

Thank you. I think I may have heard it wrong, but just one quick thing in case anybody else is.

A

Keeping notes, I believe, when you talk about lot area, which is mentioned in the state statute, you.

A

Said that uh it, these accessory dwelling units had to be on a lot to conform to the lot area.

A

I believe they can be on non-conforming lots as well. There's a provision for that is that.

A

Correct, I suppose they would be able to be to comply with non-conforming if it's.

B

A legal non-conforming lot: yes, because that would be the same. That would that.

B

Would be the same requirement as for, as applies to a single family dwelling right.

A

And I know we have our principal planner available by zoom. Did you have anything to add nick.

A

Nick is not at the moment yeah. Can you hear me? Yes, take care of yourself I'll wait for questions.

A

I'm going to open the public hearing, um any members of public have questions. Please direct.

A

Them to me and then we'll get into board discussion after we hear from the public.

A

As usual, please give your name and address, as you begin.

C

Esther kennedy 41 pickering half. um I guess I really have one question.

C

I'm not clear about how big these units can be. It says um a thousand square feet.

C

And I I find that a little big, my house is a thousand one hundred square feet.

C

So if we're seeing a thousand square feet, that's almost a full house and I'm in favor of this whole.

C

Process of having capability of putting in a little apartment on or something like that.

C

But I really think that we need to stick with the state standards. Now it was kind of mumble jumbled.

C

So I don't know if something changed from what I read, because this was definitely a different.

C

Presentation than what I had experienced in the reading of the documents that were presented.

C

But um so maybe it changed and I missed it, but um I would go back to the state recommendation and.

C

Not have it as a thousand feet. That is a big unit. I don't see these and I know councilman monroe has.

C

Said this in her meetings when I've watched him they're, not um necessarily too they're there to.

C

Support our aging population they're there to support our uh x generation that has to move.

C

Home, I don't seem to be a unit that people are going to build to make a lot of money on.

C

So there again is another reason to be moving back down to the state amount of square footage.

C

I do ask that um you think about that. I I lived in many of these neighborhoods from bartlett state.

C

To eunice street to little harbor and a lot of those houses, I can't imagine having a unit that.

C

Big and is in addition to their neighborhoods, so I would ask that you consider that thank you.

A

Thank you, I'm going to jump in just and if I misspeak mr tanner, please let me know, but the.

A

State statute provides a lower threshold. We can't require units to be of a certain small size and.

A

It also says you have to allow two bedrooms, so just as a point of clarification, that is uh that.

A

Is in the state law, I'm not advocating anything, I'm just trying to explain it. Next next person.

D

Roy health, so 777 middle road unit, 22. question I have- is a on the variances.

D

Are you going to let them go within five feet of the property line within five foot of it.

D

With a variance and the other thing is, are all neighbors going to be a buddy neighbors.

D

Going to be an old knowledgeable about the person doing this, that's all I have.

E

Good evening peter huda, 280 south street.

E

So since I've never seen this presentation before and I had been to all of the meetings, I'm going.

E

To go by the standards that were addressed in article 8., um ask questions and address that.

E

um The first question I would have mr chair, since uh you've requested, we ask, you, is on um 10 814-24.

E

um Who is going to verify on the occupation and how are the sewer services going to be verified.

E

That's my first question: um next, um the adu shall be no larger than 750.

E

Gross floor area, except as permitted through a conditional use permit, as provided by a 10 440.

E

In no case, shell, an adu be larger than a thousand square feet grow sport area, my house, like former.

E

Counselor kennedy is, the footprint is less than a thousand square feet. This is too large for an.

E

Accessory dwelling unit, whether it be included in the house or detached in my opinion, I strongly.

E

Object to a thousand square feet being put in here, and I ask you to look at this very carefully.

E

um The next thing, the building height. I appreciate that you changed.

E

Based on the input from what we had before and 10 814-333, the building height of any addition.

E

Or expansion that includes an increase in the building footprint shall be no greater than 75.

E

Percent of the height of the existing building great- this is for a single family dwelling. I'm.

E

Only asking for one word here in the case only of a single story, building or a principal building.

E

On 10 814-41 again the same issue here, uh the da this is dad use shall not be larger than.

E

750 square feet, except us per minute through a conditional use permit. So on one hand you say it.

E

Shall not be greater than 750, which, by the way is, is what came down from the state and rsa 674 31.

E

So what I'm asking is that you take out or delete ten eight one, four four one, one in no case shall.

E

The ddau be greater than one thousand square feet. Just from my perspective. Please take that out.

E

Next 10, 814-412 and okay shall the ddu-d-a-d-u that was created from an existing accessory.

E

Building that does not comply with the minimum yard requirements for a principal.

E

Structure be larger than 600 square feet in gross area. This, not this doesn't meet.

E

The the standards, the way they are now, if you go to the next page, you have a contradiction.

E

On ten eight one, four, four, three: five: the gross floor area of the entire building containing.

E

The dadu shall be no greater than 1600 square feet and the one above that says, 10 814-434.

E

The building footprint of the entire building containing the dadu shall be no greater than 750.

E

This is very confusing. The whole point of doing this was to make.

E

It easier for people to understand this. You have contradictions in both places here. Please review.

F

Next, let's see.

E

In your whole, section of dad use, you don't have parking addressed where I can see it. I looked.

E

Through the uh down to 10 81453, where you describe the width of a garage but.

E

You don't describe any parking here if the parking is described in the attached. Why.

E

Isn't it described here or is the user just supposed to assume that that is included.

E

I would like to uh thank whoever put in the architectural standard designs. I think you we.

E

Need to be consistent in the neighborhoods, and I think that was a great addition.

E

um The notification um 10814611.

E

For a period of at least 30 days from the date of application to the city, the property.

E

Owner shall post notice provided by the city that require that describes the proposed adu.

E

That is a great sentence, but on the back at the very end, it says, furthermore, the signs shall they.

E

Shall post a sign with the information shall be mailed to the abutter? So I would ask that.

E

You put those two together, so it is clear to all of butters that there will be a sign placed there.

E

And they will have a mail notification before anything happens as far as dad use the other.

E

Question I have is on the administrative approval by the planning director. You have contradicting.

E

Statements here this is ten eight one, four six one, two, the determination as to whether an adu.

E

Complies with all of the requirements shall be by administrative approval by the planning director.

E

Planning director determines that the application does not comply with any of.

E

The standards and section in this section, the adau, shall require a conditional use permit.

E

The next one says the planning board, so I guess I would ask: why would you have the planning director.

E

Do an administrative approval, the administrative approval does not require any notice to a butters.

E

And the administrative approval could be the interpretation of a staff member on this.

E

This deprives the the alia butters of due process.

E

And if you want to go into due process of property rights, there is a court case versus litchfield.

E

And it's very specific to property rights. The only time is, there is a constitutional right to.

E

Be heard at a public meeting is during public hearing concerning a matter which affects a.

E

Person's property rights, the people who abut any of these properties have property rights also.

E

I think you, this is one of the big ones that you really need to consider as far.

E

As notifying a butters and just doing an administrative approval by a staff member.

E

The next one contradicts this 10 81462, when section 10 440 requires conditional.

E

Use permit for an attached or detached adu. The planning board shall make the following.

E

Findings, so you switch back and forth right in the next right in the next uh sentence.

E

um I think that oh nope, I'm the last one 10 81472.

E

This was a little confusing to me because I went through all the permitting processes in the city.

E

And you're adding this post-approval requirements, a certificate of use is issued by the planning.

E

Department is that really the planning department or is that the building department? First question.

E

Required to verify compliance with the standards of this section, including the including the owner,.

E

Then it goes on occupancy and principal residency required requirements. That's.

E

Fine said certificates shall be issued by the planning department upon issuance of a.

E

Certificate of occupancy by the inspection department and shall be renewed annually.

E

Upon submission of such documentation, as may, the planning board may require to verify this.

E

So if you require additional documentation, please tell the either the person who was.

E

Applying here or the butters, what will be required of them up front? You don't want to.

E

Get them to the end and they they thought they did everything, and then they still have to have.

E

Further requirements of paperwork- that would be my comment on that. Thank you very much. Thank you.

G

The hewitt 726 middle road- I guess I'll- be brief for.

G

um Two things I'm going to say this because I've said it in every one of.

G

The land use committee meetings the parking I feel strongly. It should be one spot per bedroom.

G

um On that, um the other is the lot area. um I I hope there'll be some discussion around that there.

G

Really wasn't any discussion around it at the land use committee meetings and when I asked about it.

G

At the november meeting beverly mesa zent, who was the planning director at the time, said she felt.

G

That that was one of the the biggest changes in this is that the you know before it was required.

G

That, if you had those two dwelling units, the adu and the main unit um on the property um it it was.

G

Three up at least three thousand square feet, and now my understanding is that you are only counting.

G

It as one dwelling unit, which is the main house, and which means that it only requires fifteen.

G

Hundred square feet at least that's the way it was explained to me at that november meeting and if.

G

That is the case. I have some real concerns about what that will do to the density in neighborhoods.

G

um Because it seems to me that if you're now putting two dwelling units on.

G

um One essentially one lot uh lot area size. It's going to be a lot more dense and I I'm concerned.

G

About what that would be like for neighborhoods, so I hope you'll have a discussion or explain to.

G

Me what maybe I don't understand, but that was the way it was explained. Thank you. Thank you.

D

H

Good evening elizabeth bradder property owner 159 mcdonough street, there are a lot of good things in.

H

This ordinance change. There are a lot of details having gone to the land use for the committee's.

H

Meetings quite a few of them, it was hashed out and there was a lot of work put into this, but.

H

There are many many details that are coming together and obviously some need to just be.

H

Cleaned up and others need to be addressed, but one of the things that I've been thinking about is the.

H

Thousand square feet, and so I have rental units and um if you have a two bedroom and it's you've.

H

Got one bedroom which is 12 by 10, that's 120 feet, and then you have another bedroom. That's also 12.

H

By 10, that's another 120 feet. You give yourself a good sized living room, that's 14 by 10! That's.

H

140 feet a 10 by 10 kitchen would be a hundred feet and an eight by eight bathroom. That's a.

H

Good sized bathroom in this area would be 64 feet that would be 544 square feet for that apartment.

H

So if you wanted to go big, you could make the bedrooms 14 by by 10 14 by 10. You could.

H

Go 160 foot living room, 100, foot, kitchen, a hundred foot bathroom, that's a good sized.

H

Bathroom you could have company in there it's going to be 640. now, if I want to get to 750, I.

H

Can generously add on a 10 by 10 deck on the back, and now I'm going to be close to 750.

H

So, just to get an idea of how big a 750 square foot accessory unit is so when you start to go.

H

Up you want to get up to 840, you can do a 12 by a 240 square foot bedroom, a 200 square foot, bedroom.

H

A 200 square foot living room, a 100 foot bathroom and a 100 foot kitchen now, you're.

H

Only at 840., so the the goal of he of this conversation is just to make you aware that.

H

To me, when I think of an accessory dwelling unit, I think of a 12 by a 12 by 10 bedroom.

H

A 14 by 10 living room because it's going to be a living room, kitchen, room, dining room type thing.

H

Maybe a 10 by 10 kitchen, a 64 square foot, which is an eight by eight bath, which is 424 square feet.

H

So I think we're going really big here, we're being very generous these some of these are.

H

Close to three bedroom apartment sizes here in portsmouth, so just to keep that in mind when.

H

You're thinking about distinguishing between 600 square feet and a thousand thank you. Thank you.

I

Good evening, evan mullen 82 austin street just a few comments. um Generally speaking,.

I

I think this is a big step forward for uh revisions regarding accessory dwelling units.

I

Which, I think, are an excellent opportunity to provide uh some good solutions for our.

I

Ongoing housing issue here in the state of new hampshire and, of course, in portsmouth,.

I

um These, I think, in general, are uh helping reduce some of the restrictions on adus. That.

I

Are currently in the zoning, I would just add that uh I think under the right circumstances, uh it.

I

Would be reasonable to um consider a waiver to the parking requirements in the right neighborhoods.

I

And under the right application circumstances, my other comment is about the architectural.

I

um Design standards: this is a great addition. However, I think that the first two bullet.

I

Points in here could cover the majority of what the objectives are for the design.

I

Standards and the subsequent bullet points again, I think I think they restrict some.

I

Flexibility and opportunity to uh to provide some architectural styles and materials that.

I

Would would be inspiring and progressive here in in the city? That's it! Thank you. Thank you.

A

A

Anybody on zoom we have two people on zoom. If anyone would like to speak, please.

J

um Okay, this is elita morgan for me. So later, morgan.

K

Yes, hi, it's elita, uh richards avenue. I have a quick question and uh I appreciate all the.

K

Speakers and um getting a little bit more insight into how big it is, or they can be, or.

K

They can get to and considering how large or how big they can be, as other speakers have described,.

K

So do they really fit into this description of being accessory dwellings? um I think that's one.

K

Question and the second question is I've read a few of the materials and the language around.

K

um I mean our resources are limited right and um what is the, um how has the impact.

K

Of these um dwelling units right will be in terms of our environment in purview, uh um sewage.

K

um So what is the adequacy of our resources, and how has this been assessed if it has been assessed.

K

um And again, this is, we portsmouth cannot be. This is here aside, opinion and comment.

K

um Portsmouth is not going to solve the problems of affordable housing in new.

K

Hampshire, because new hampshire has a a taxation system, that's very different.

K

And we could go on and that's not the purpose of this meeting here.

K

um What with that said, um we kind of have to look into also the character of our neighborhoods.

K

um What is going to be the character and communication with the brothers.

K

Will a butters be or will whatever proposed ordinance require all of.

K

Others to be notified, regardless of the size, regardless of the type of dwelling.

K

Because some of these can be like really a house right, so I would appreciate if you.

K

Considering these thoughts and thank you for the work, if you enjoy- and that was it.

A

Thank you. We have another, um we do have another, but they haven't raised their hands. So, okay,.

A

Does board want to have the staff ask answer any of these public questions? We.

A

Want to get into it greg I've. Three questions, select comments for stuff.

L

L

I'm a little surprised that, um with two sections terms and definitions,.

L

You didn't take the time to add the district zoning codes so that people.

L

Could understand what the columns meant? I think that that should be added immediately.

L

You know what I mean: it's not in there.

L

The next thing: why did you guys decide to go to seven digits with two decimal points? Instead,.

L

Of sticking with all the other zoning in the city, which is five digits of one decimal point,.

L

So I'll just back up the go, the goal of everything that we've done so far was to simplify adus and.

L

Lower the cost of doing adus and those two steps are completely backwards, so those need to change.

L

Architectural design standards, your intent, I haven't gotten an answer yet so I'm just.

L

Going to continue actually can I I'm just trying to catch up with you, so the existing zoning has.

B

10.814.33, let's say we're changing it from 10.84.33 to 10.814.24, so we haven't added.

B

Any numbers in the in the numbering system- I just looked up the zoning. It was five digits.

L

In one decimal, so I'm not sure. Okay, if you look at the I'm sorry, if you look at the.

B

At the existing zoning, for example, the under 10.814 accessory dwelling units, unless I'm totally.

B

Mistaken I may be as well, but I'll look at it. I'm back to the goal of simplifying and lowering cost.

L

And so far I don't see any of that and back to my original thing, why is there no footnotes or table.

L

Helping the people that are trying to read this to determine what the different zoning codes mean.

B

I mean they're in the existing zoning ordinance, so we could copy them somebody's not going to.

L

Read the whole zoning ordinance to find the zoning codes for the districts that you're.

L

Trying to apply the adus to or there's no reference to the page in the zoning codes.

L

Where they can find that it's fine, that's an easy thing to do. Good architectural design standards.

L

We worked, we talked about this at the at the um various meetings. Apparently, nobody was listening.

L

um Good intent, but the level of detail that you're acquiring and the use of the words.

L

Shall, instead of should is overbearing and my examples back then, were we've got a lot of old.

L

Housing stock in this town and if you've got a a nice house on mill, street or islington or.

L

Something like that that has a slate roof. That's 40 years old and probably costs 200, a square foot.

L

To replace and you want to put a little adu, you know on a shed you, you shouldn't, have.

L

To have a slate roof on the edu. Furthermore, I mean in houses. I've remodeled you'll have.

L

Mahogany doors mahogany window frames, mahogany trim everywhere you you simply can't require.

L

Somebody to put mahogany trim and doors and windows on an adu. You know now you're at 400.

L

A square foot so using the term shell and going to the level of detail, is financially ridiculous.

L

So we should figure out a way to meet the intent of.

L

Architectural design standards without requiring identical materials, which is exactly what it says.

B

Let's say same or similar, I think we tried to say same or similar to b, what's similar to mahogany. I.

L

Mean I tried to do something in a historic district and they wouldn't. Let me use azac.

L

They made me use pine, which was ridiculous. I said. Thank you. It cost me half as much. I believe the.

A

Sections that were relate to conditional use permit do give the board flexibility.

A

Under um 8 14 63., I agree but- and I think this board would be flexible but I'm afraid.

L

Other boards would interpret mahogany to be mahogany. Okay, that's all I have thank you.

A

Yes, andrew um certainly more of a visual person, and I think that there's a lot of.

M

Revisions here I I guess I was unsuspecting of some of them, but nonetheless.

M

On the single story, dwellings, adding one story and keeping that in compliance with an adu, I'm.

M

Wondering how that's done in practice. And if we have any visual examples of that and the.

M

Reason I bring it up is because, if you go to um neighborhoods such as maple haven or that.

M

Area off of route 1, you may see a row of single story ranch homes with an additional story. There.

M

And in my mind, I can't see that floor plan and layout acting and complying with the other adu.

M

Standards and so I'm just hoping that we can have a visual that supports or dictates that.

A

I think I'm not sure if this is going to be a question for council moreau or rick. I believe.

A

Where the city's new housing coordinator is going to be working on a manual yes, I just spoke to him.

N

About it this afternoon, and will that address some of this it will, it will basically walk any.

N

Homeowner through the code and how they apply it to their home, so it should simplify it and put it.

N

In plain terms, so their job is to take this code and make it so that any homeowner can pick up the.

N

Home the guide, but, of course we have to finalize this in order to give them something to write the.

N

Diet off of so it'll help them. Anyone be able to pick up the guide and be able to say okay.

N

You know this is my house. This is what zone I'm in these are the things that I might be affected by.

A

So it'll be a process manual, not not necessarily a visual manual. We don't need to be determined. We.

A

Don't know yet it's just the idea that that is one of the tests once this is finalized to be.

N

Able to have a manual for it yeah and although what I'm bringing up is extremely nuanced and.

M

I guess specified it's really kind of intentional and I think that we have very nuanced and specif.

M

Specific housing here that much like uh greg just pointed out is, is hard to replicate and if you're.

M

Giving them no other design standard, except you can't be more than just one story above.

M

It that to me just gets uh too vague, and so I'm trying to be very intentional in these examples.

M

So that when they come to us in a proposal, we can be prepared and have an educated background with.

M

It so I guess that's my first point and my second point is right: now we have um an ordinance that.

M

That takes 400, a micro unit can be 400 square feet and we've had projects permitted and.

M

Existing housing stocks that have units of that size, where we still get questions about parking.

M

And we still get questions about density and how many people are allowed in those types of units.

M

And moving forward, I feel, as though portsmouth will become more of that more efficient housing.

M

Stock and this thousand square feet in my head is just really intensive for a lot of neighborhoods.

M

And adding the fact that they'll have to go to a conditional use permit in my head is sure it's.

M

Another row of uh acknowledgment and approval, but it doesn't really help us trim down the.

M

The this question of size, and so overall point being is there's a correlative effect between more.

M

Square footage and more parking and more people and I'm not sure that adding 250 square feet on.

M

Top of the 750 is a solution, or it's just a reach, and so now my point to you and my question to you.

M

After all, that is, I would be really interested in seeing how many proposals came to us in the.

M

Last two or three years that requested an adu of at least a thousand square feet. And if there was.

M

A purpose and reason to those proposals that that person wanted that much square footage.

B

So uh I don't know, I know the staff knows, but I don't know um the uh the details of each unit.

B

That have come in, but I know I know the staff has collected that data. um What I would say.

B

About the the 750 versus a thousand- and I don't have a strong feeling either way- and this this.

B

Is just how the discussion came out in the land use committee right now in the existing ordinance.

B

um A thousand square feet is allowed we've, given a certain amount of land lot area, and so what the.

B

Committee did was say: let's extend that to just allow it by conditional use permit and- and there.

B

Are two things that went on here? One is going from conditional use permit to as of right use for the.

B

Smaller units for the units under 750 square feet or or under 600 square feet for a an existing.

B

Accessory building, and so that was meant to make it easier for those small units to be permitted.

B

Then the the committee also said well, let's look at expanding that that thousand square.

B

Feet for detached or attached units, given you know, given specific additional requirements.

B

So it's it's not for every unit, but it's just for you have to look at it and look at the conditional.

B

Use criteria and the additional the stricter uh dimensional standards, like the setbacks um and.

B

And one more thing I was going to say: um oh yes, and then the the third part of that is that the.

B

For a detached accessory structure, because we're looking here not only at as I'm sure.

B

You're aware we're looking at this the square footage of the accessory dwelling unit itself.

B

The footprint of the building that has the accessory dwelling unit in it and.

B

The total square footage of the uh of the building that has the square foot the the.

B

The accessory dwelling unit in it, so yes under certain situations you could allow by.

B

By conditional use permit a thousand square foot accessory dwelling unit, but that would have to be.

B

In a building that only had a 750 square square footprint, so it would be, you know like it could.

B

Be a one and a half story, building for example, or it could be a floor area above a two-car garage.

B

um And the the floor area of the garage counts as part of that of that 1600 of that it comes.

B

As part of the 750 square footprint and the 1600 square foot total floor area, and in addition, this.

B

Total square foot square footage can't be more than 75 percent of the existing single-family.

B

Dwelling so if you know there are examples and- and I I know that they're true uh the that um of.

B

A one thousand square foot single existing single family dwelling that that single family dwelling.

B

Could only have, regardless of what anything else it says in the ordinance, it could only.

B

Have a 750 square foot accessory dwelling unit because it can't be more than 750 square 700. The.

B

Whole building can't be more than three quarters: 75 percent of the florida of the single family.

B

Drawing all these things there's so many moving parts and they all kind of work together, and I can.

M

Appreciate that and I understand the complexity of it, I think when we again it goes back to a.

M

Proposal so imagine if you or somebody coming to us and we were reviewing a proposal from you.

M

The question that always passes in my head is: is this in the spirit of the ordinance and obviously.

M

If you're approaching 750 square feet on a thousand square foot primary residence, you have.

M

To scratch your head and wonder what the intent is and then how that's going to blend. And if that.

M

Thousand square foot resonance is still at the thousand square feet in 2023. There's a good chance.

M

That probably it couldn't have been expanded. Otherwise, so then you start to ask well what kind.

M

Of intensity and density is going to be created by permitting this 750 square feet. In addition to.

M

So can I just add one more thing there yeah and the thing I think we kind of lose track.

B

Of is that the state law uh says that we can't require the accessory dwelling unit to be less.

B

Than 750 square feet or less than two bedrooms, so that's a that's an area we're stuck with that 750.

B

We can argue about the thousand, but you're stuck with the 750.. I understand yeah and again it's.

M

Like when you pull a string on a sweater- and it just keeps going and going so, I'm trying to.

M

Prevent that strength from just going on and on and on where we have a thousand square foot adu.

M

And I live on richard's ave. I live in a house that is exactly a thousand square feet and I.

M

Can tell you that if you were to add that to any other house on richard's app, if you were to add.

M

My house, to any other house on richards ave that would be extremely overwhelming and, and I think.

M

A lot of my neighbors would agree, and there are other examples of adus attached and detached on.

M

Richards that may suggest that you can have less than a thousand and still be sufficient.

M

um So I guess that's where I rest my thoughts, but they may have more. Thank you.

D

Okay, uh yes, I I just really, I think I have mostly a process question and then um an initial comment.

O

I have like so many comments. I don't really know how to quite organize them at this.

O

Particular second, but my process question is that I think that the public asked very good questions.

O

um And made very good comments, and so I just want to make sure I understand how.

O

Those are going to be addressed one by one. They cover many of my own questions.

O

um I think that's important. I also think that, in terms of process.

O

In terms of this conversation, I think we need to really actually start on page five of the.

O

Document, which is the actual purpose and eligibility for accessory dwelling units.

O

Before we get there's lots of weeds and there's lots of moving figures, but I I have, I guess my.

O

Initial comment is that I think that the def these these this section about purpose and eligibility.

O

um And definition of accessory dwelling unit later on in the document.

O

Etc, it needs to be really specific in ways that I don't see in terms of limiting its.

O

Uses, I think, there's one place in the document where it says it won't be used for business.

O

Instead of that, I think it should be explicit about no short-term rentals, no commercial use.

O

These, as stated in our staff memo, the whole adu issue is kind of rolled up with quote senior.

O

Housing facilities, I mean I, I want us all to be collectively clear about who the intended users.

O

Of the adus are to be other than, of course, the owner, who has the choice of living in the adu.

O

Or living in the principal residence, that's not what I'm talking about! I'm talking about getting.

O

Really clear about intended purpose about limits about who is going to be using these that's one.

O

General comment and then my other general comment for now is about back to density, neighborhood.

O

Compatibility and character and parking because all of those are interrelated and the problem is.

O

Is that multiple adus are already going into small neighborhoods, my own included and with.

O

Parking that I I don't I don't exactly know the answer I mean I'm not sure that I do agree that.

O

A two-bedroom unit should then automatically refer to two parking spaces, because we have little side.

O

Streets that are I, I have no idea where people are going to park when we get into snow situations for.

O

Instance, when you end up with a tiny house that was only a thousand, you know square foot, cape.

O

And now you've got a 750 unit. You know square foot unit with two bedrooms and now you've got.

O

Four cars and five cars trying to park there's there's not the lawn space, there's, certainly not.

O

The side, space and there's abutting neighbors that have to back out into all of those cars that are.

O

Additionally, parked on tiny side streets, so the density issue is one that's going to grow. It's.

O

Not just as it is and looking at individual adus, I think it's something we really need to think.

O

About with regards to we're trying to make it easier, we're trying to have a higher prevalence.

O

Of adus, what that kind of density inside small residential neighborhoods is going to look like.

O

I think there's a huge discussion to be had about parking is my point, but I think we should.

O

Start with answering the public's questions, they were specific and very good, and then I.

O

Think we should go into the actual eligibility section to make sure that there's harmony about.

O

That I don't even think that that section is clear and then there's you know lots of detail.

O

Not sure how to proceed. [music] Okay! Well, to answer your process question the planning.

A

Board is charged with having a public hearing on the zoning amendment proposal and making.

A

A recommendation to council now we can make a recommendation based on the draft we have tonight.

A

We can make suggestions for edits to the draft we have tonight or we can say that we think that.

A

Additional changes that are needed that we can't cover with a conversation with rick at the podium.

A

So we'd have to continue the public hearing for another conversation with work in between.

A

I think those are the three options. It's the council that has the final authority to either.

A

Adopt or not adopt the zoning amendment, as we all know, and they have additional public process, but.

A

um The this is the first time this proposal has come to the full board. It is a very important.

A

Topic: it's a very important topic for the city. It's a very important topic statewide and I do.

A

Think we have to get it right and I know the land use committee which, by the way, folks, I am.

A

On the land use committee, I didn't attend the last meetings because the client conflicts, but earlier.

A

In the year I did attend, the vice chair is also a member and council. Moreau, of course, runs the land.

A

Use committee, so we have representation on it, but this is the first time it has come to the.

A

Planning board, so this is our first official planning board process and this board needs to.

A

Be comfortable with the public input and its own input before sending it on to council, so.

A

I don't know if that helps hinders. Maybe people can understand things a little bit better.

A

Board comments.

A

Enter again um only because it, I have sorry recency bias towards it, um we had a proposal with.

M

A detached adu- and there are some concerns about drainage and lighting with that proposal, and so.

M

I'm wondering if that, under the raj sanders, with the touch adus.

M

uh It has now compliance with drainage and lighting requirements as a zoning ordinance.

M

And so is that going to be a full drainage plan.

M

I don't know who I'm asking, because that would be a question. I would I mean the the.

B

It could be, it depends on how the board decides to do it. You could look at a at a you, wouldn't.

B

Want to have a full drainage plan for every single application that came in obviously so.

B

You took on it if you had one that came in for a conditional use permit, and you had some questions.

B

About it, you could send it back for for a plan. I think this is something that's you're going to.

B

Need to look at on a case-by-case basis, because otherwise you're just going to be undercutting.

B

The whole purpose of this, which is to provide some more affordable housing, uh uh I'm not sure that I.

M

Understand your answer. Well, I mean just. I don't think that every uh you know if you have a.

B

A detached accessory dwelling unit added on top of an existing garage. It wouldn't make any sense.

B

To require you're not doing anything to the site, it wouldn't make any sense to require a drainage.

B

Plan in that situation sure so I think that you're going to need to look at this on a case-by-case.

B

Basis and just and when, when a plan comes in with a new structure, that is, you know in an area that.

B

You know neighbors coming to the public hearing say: we've got drainage concerns here then you may.

B

Just determine that you need to hold off on making the approval and ask them for a drainage plan.

B

I just don't think it's a is a, it seems, very subjective, yeah, it's not subjective, but it's.

B

Case specific- and we did that recently right but now so my question, I guess, is.

M

How is that specified in these revised standards like and I'm asking you simply.

M

Because I don't understand myself, so is there a way that we can say.

M

If you're creating a new building versus, if you're, just adding it on top of your garage.

M

Clarity yeah, you again, I'm not sure that it's always going to be the case that you're going.

B

To require a complete drainage plan for a new accessory structure, so I think absolutely agree.

M

So I think that you can you have the power as a planning board uh when you're reviewing a.

B

Plan to say, we need more information sure, but the reason we heard it most recently among.

M

Concerns from the boards itself, we had a lot of butters speak out in that same concern, and so, if.

M

It does not go to the butters, because it's by right or what have you then they may not even.

M

Know- and we may not know, given that we don't live there or around there right. So I guess.

B

That would be the case in in a small, um well, the only the only time you're actually getting a buy.

B

Right situation is when it's within an existing building so you're, not anything that involves.

B

An expansion or a new building is going to come to you for conditional use, permit and.

B

Public hearing and the neighbors are going to be notified and in the way they normally.

B

Are so, I think I think you're always going to have that option to request that information.

P

Okay, jim and then corey have uh one comment and three questions um addressing mr mahana's issue.

Q

With architectural standards, I just had an idea that maybe, if it was rewarded to say same or.

Q

Similar in appearance, kind of should or shell same thing go back to the way it was. I just thought.

Q

Well, yeah, it's just it's the same material or a different material. That looks the same. So you know.

Q

That's just a thought. um My first question has to deal with uh the notice to butters is that cover.

Q

The male, the male notice, is that for everyone, or just the ones for administrative approval.

B

So you know the if it's a conditional use permit it's going to have it's going to follow the same.

B

Provisions that you have for any conditional use permit now, so it's nailed notice. Okay, if it's the.

B

Only the only the the concern that the land use committee had and that many of the neighbors had.

B

Was what happens when you've got oh when you've got something that is an administrative approval.

B

That doesn't require a condition use permit and the final wording that the committee came up with.

B

Or actually, staff came up with it was the this notice. This position point on 814611 about posting.

B

A notice for a period of 30 days in a clearly visible location along public streets, okay and.

Q

In general, when a butter is notified is that by certified mail I have to ask the staff? Yes, yes, all.

Q

Right, um my second question is: uh does portsmouth have a minimum square footage for a dwelling unit.

A

Can't for accessory dueling units so you're talking about regular any dwellings. Any dwelling.

Q

Unit the minimum size a human can occupy, there may be a a a a state health standard building.

J

Code, encoding yeah, it wouldn't be specific to ports, not in the zonings. Exactly okay and.

Q

um Third question is just curious about an update on the number of adus in portsmouth right now,.

J

That sounds right, I don't I mean we can check, we can 27 is what.

A

We're hearing it it's in that gen general vicinity. Okay, that's it.

F

Just to continue when it's a permitted use the the signage, but the directive.

N

Butters around that permitted use also gets the notice information in a mail letter.

N

Mail to them in the regular mail so that they would get it both ways. Just for the.

N

Direct butters not the whole, like they do for conditional use. Okay now, corey, are you trying.

P

um And I know we discussed as the land use committee, but I'm just trying to.

P

Wrap my head around, so how did we settle on for 10.814.333 in the case of a single story, building.

P

I remember having this discussion and I forgot where it went so help me jog my memory.

P

If you have an example of someone with a single story building- and they want to add.

P

A two-story garage with an adu on top as it's written. They cannot correct, correct.

P

And but I know we had the discussion of that so.

P

Forget how it went, maybe nick knows, but you know in essence, if I had a two-story house, then I could.

P

Do that you could do that, um provided that uh the addition can't be greater than 75 percent of the.

B

Existing building height, wise height, wise, yes, yeah, so and so, but and but the but you can't possibly.

B

Do that with a single story, building right, so that was why the if you said you're going to.

B

um If you're going to add a story, um you can, if you have a single, if you have a single story.

B

Single family dwelling, you can either go up or go out, but you can't do both yeah so but.

P

You can currently put a two-story garage with an open space. If you have a single story house.

B

Right I mean, if you so so the physical building can be the same size. It's the age right. So so.

B

So basically, I guess what you're saying is: you could probably put a because we don't I um and.

P

This goes back to that conversation. We had about accessory buildings and you know, limitations on.

B

Those so if you had a so if you have a um if you're building a new accessory dwelling.

B

Unit a new structure to hold an accessory dwelling unit with a single story, building.

B

The section you're looking at is attached, it's not detached, so that's I'm going to have to go.

B

Back and look at this and see what it says on the next page yeah and I don't think detached.

P

It may call it something different, but yeah just in print it can be taller and a detached. It can be.

P

Taller in the details, it can be taller in the detached. Yes, yes, and that was where we talked.

B

About increasing the setbacks right, okay, okay, all right did everybody follow that conversation.

A

Was that it for you yeah? That was it! Thank you any other board. Anybody new [laughter], you don't want.

A

To say anything, I mean I'm happy to answer some questions. uh If you don't mind I'll tackle the.

N

Architectural designs, I I get that they seem more restrictive, but the idea was when you're going to.

N

Have some permitted uses, we were trying to give people direction and be able to give the staff.

N

Direction on what to look at, I know that there were some questions uh that seem like one thing.

N

Was contradictory to the other as far as talking about um the 1600 square foot? So when we're.

N

Talking on, like eight one, four, four, three, four, the building footprint of the entire building so.

N

We're just looking the footprint can't be greater than 750 square feet. The 1600 is actually talking.

N

About the entire gross floor area of the building, so it's volume it's going on multiple floors. It's.

N

Not just the footprint, so it might seem like we're talking about the same things, but it is.

N

Actually two different things and talking about different areas. So when you're talking about the.

N

Admin, administrative approval section- and you start talking about the planning director- has.

N

The right to say, I don't think this is a permitted use. It's going to kick it to the planning board.

N

To then have a conditional use permit, so the planning director has the right to say I don't.

N

Think you can form based off of the standards here and now you need to get a conditional use.

N

Permit, at which point then it does go to the planning board to then go through that process.

N

um So I'm hoping that answered some of the questions that came up earlier. If there's more.

N

I'm happy to try to explain the stuff of what I know. Thank you andrew. You had a again like I.

M

Know it might be the youngest one here, but I did like the past fourth grade. I know how to read. I.

M

Know I know how to like digest these things, but I'm now in the zoning ordinance and I'm looking.

M

At all, these characteristic illustrations with nice, shading and really good depictions of what.

M

Is allowed and and what is suggested, and it even goes into like pocket parks and pauses. So all I'm.

M

Trying to say is, I think some illustrations would allow me to have like an aha moment, and I think.

M

Would also allow the public to have some aha moments where, if you live on richard's ave and.

M

You see that or you get in the mail, you know so and so is doing a detached adu. I don't know what.

M

That means what what if I don't know how what that means or have any perception of what that is going.

M

To do to my property, if I can log on to the zoting ordinance and and get some sort of indication of.

M

Like, oh, that's what that is going to look like, or even a rough reference in our zoning orange. We.

M

Have specific buildings in portsmouth in certain characteristics that are called out and say: hey.

M

Here's an example of this, and so I think that's maybe one of my points is like we. It doesn't take.

M

Much to go around take some photos hey. This is a natasha to you, here's a detached to you and then.

M

Even like having some technical components that illustrate or again provide some parameters for.

M

Neighbors and a butters uh that they can look at to get a better digestion point of what is going.

M

On that's going to help me with some clarity, and I think it would help the public as well.

B

I think that's really directed to the staff right. I believe the adu handbook, that's the that's. What.

M

That's called functioning that's the goal that is going to be able to walk the citizens through.

R

That, but also have illustrations of what things will look like. That's a little bit curtain before.

L

The horse we're trying to approve a telephone book that doesn't have the pictures. I think what we're.

A

Hearing is that at least some people are saying that the handbook should have illustrations in.

A

It because that hasn't been determined yet so I'm I'm. I haven't, worked on several form-based codes.

A

Myself, I'm a proponent of having illustrations as well, so I think they're very they're, very useful.

A

um I don't know that we have to have those to look at this, but that's your point by no means.

M

And I'm not like I'm just trying to get my point entire in an articulate way. So I apologize, but I.

M

Know that I brought this up to a neighbor of mine on richard's ave and I said, oh, you know.

M

The planning board's uh kind of reviewing and recalling some of the adu parameters and she said.

M

So, what's that and I was like you have an adu on your house and she was like. Oh no, that's an in-law.

M

And I was like yeah: that's what we're talking about so um again, definition versus illustration.

M

And clarity, no matter who you may be in the city, it's always nice to have two forms of directions.

B

Again again, this is that's something we'll have to be discussed with the staff and or.

B

The land use committee, but you sit on that. No, no, I'm just. I was just hired to help work in this.

B

I'm a consultant on the landings committee. No, I I have assisted the language committee, I'm not on.

B

The landings committee you have mistaken, it he's a word smith, great yes, jane yeah, and then I would.

O

Just like to like be on the record to say that I agree with the public comments that I've heard.

O

um I actually think that uh the whole provision for the fourth type of dadu that allows for up.

O

To a thousand square feet, I just think it should be dropped. I I think it should be.

O

Capped at 750 square feet due to concerns about um an accessory dwelling unit. Looking.

O

Except and being and operating in an accessory fashion, there's a lot of primary residences in.

O

Portsmouth, that are a thousand square feet and, as we build more and more micro units, they're.

O

Going to be well under a thousand square feet, so I just don't see any reason why we're making.

O

It so possible to have bigger units than the state statute. I don't agree with it. So that's my comment.

O

And again, it also relates to parking noise density, neighborhood character. We don't need it.

A

Anybody else I have some comments. Nobody else does.

A

I'm I'll agree with that. I'm concerned about this, the maximum size. I think a thousand square feet.

A

Is too big for the city of portsmouth? I think the state standard of 750, which is a statewide.

A

Standard that applies to many rural areas as well. It is fully adequate. So that's first comment.

A

On the I'm concerned about the permitted administrative approvals.

A

Even with the notice provisions, because it doesn't give.

A

Members of public a chance to come to this room and speak their minds. And let us know the drainage.

A

Issues and other things that just don't show up, because the landowner is not going to bring those.

A

To the attention of the planning director, if they are trying to get something as a matter of right.

A

In that regard, whether the entire they're all done or not in the.

A

Single family residents, a and b and general family residents, a and b two family dwellings.

A

Aren't permitted and yet we're allowing inside existing buildings these up to 600 square feet.

A

As administrative approval that to me seems like a character, changing aspect to a neighborhood that.

A

Perhaps shouldn't be allowed, you know I. There are a number of issues here in my mind,.

A

There's the statewide issue of trying to provide more affordable housing, which is.

A

Critically important, but also we have to be careful about neighborhood character,.

A

And that goes to the heart of every aspect of the zoning ordinance and I think if we.

A

Are not allowing two family dwellings? Why should we allow an accessory dwelling unit.

A

Which is, by definition another dwelling, it can have another family in it by definition,.

A

As a matter of administrative permit, that seems to me a missed a missed point.

A

I've got other comments, but I'm just going to skip through the the major ones that I see.

A

The definition of accessory detached successor dwelling and it's not being accessory buildings.

A

It's an 814 133. um I think, rather than saying that the big red truck isn't red and it isn't.

A

Big, we should say if we have detached accessory buildings, they have separate.

A

Setback criteria because they are accessory, or they should be by being reduced in size,.

A

And scale to the principal dwelling: that's the definition of accessory.

A

And that just it's a more of a cleanup thing than anything substantive.

A

It's kind of a big one: how how do you measure the gross floor area of an attached accessory dwelling.

A

In it, that is in fact, attached to a major building definition of gross warrior's entire building.

B

I thought it was the within the walls of the unit, but it's not. Mr chairman. We had.

L

This discussion about heated versus unheated and we had to take that into account with an.

L

Idea that we approved and it should be defined well in some jurisdictions, it's living area.

A

As opposed to say, storage space like attic space that you know might just purely be storage, may.

A

Not be heated, that's very unconditional yeah, but gross floor area is a very inclusive term and it.

A

Seems to me if you're it contradicts, I know the intent and I'm with the 750 square feet. You know.

A

Obviously it's state law requirements, so we better be with the 750, but um that that seems reasonable.

A

And could you explain 814 331 to me about the doors on a dwelling unit.

D

It says this is this: is an existing regulation.

B

um So the existing regulation says if there are two or more doors in front of the dwelling in.

B

Front of the dwelling one door should be designed as the principal entrance and the other door.

B

Should be designed to appear to be secondary, and the change that was made here was to insert the.

B

Words principle and unit, so it says in front of the principle dwelling unit instead of in front.

B

Of the dwelling, so there's no substantive change to this. uh I'm just trying to understand it. So the.

A

Idea is that one door would be for the accessory building in it. One door would be for the principal.

A

It's just to maintain the the character of the single family home to have one door.

B

Appear to be your front door and the one other one appeared to be a secondary door.

B

It's just a it's! What, if you have I'm proposing to put an accessory drilling.

A

Unit on a house that already has two doors: do I have to change the doors.

B

I would say: no, it doesn't it's not really clear. If you have this, I mean there's two.

B

Doors facing the street- I suppose that can happen in some situations.

B

But normally that would happen. One would really be. Would look like a front door.

A

Well, I like the front door to look like a front door. Yeah right. We all do but.

A

um I mean, even though this was in the existing ordinance, um it doesn't say what you just said.

A

You know it if it was if it were two existing doors or if it's a new door. You know if it's a new.

A

Door for an accessory drawing unit, it should be designed to appear to be secondary. I mean that's.

A

What you're saying it should say you could change the road, I mean. That's, we didn't. We didn't try to.

B

Look that deeply into the existing ordinance, but you could actually make that change. Okay,.

L

A

The I circled the notice requirements for the permitted uses. I it's a good way to do if you're.

A

Going to have administrative approval, that's a good way to do it, I'm not in favor of ministry.

A

Of approval for these I'd rather see have very simple: you have a separate set of conditional use.

A

Criteria that are just simple check box, but give people give the butters the opportunity to come.

A

To the public meeting to be heard, I don't think it should be held upstairs. That's my personal opinion.

A

Another sort of one of the members of the public raised this generally in 814 612.

A

If you have administrative approval, the planning director.

A

If, if he or she determines that the application does not comply with the standards of age 14, it.

A

Goes to the planning board and then the first requirement there is that a flying.

A

Board has to determine that it does apply with the standards of 814.. um It seems like.

A

There's just a missing clause there unless waived, you know as a part of the cup process.

B

Are you, are you entirely within 612 612 and then the next section, six eight fourteen six, two one.

A

Six well got it: okay,.

A

I agree with one of the folks um the way it's worded right now, conditions permit the way I.

A

Read it wouldn't allow the planning board to waive parking. I think that that should.

A

Be permitted given the conditions specific to a neighborhood and a particular site.

A

I don't know how the rest of the board feels about that.

N

True that we can waive any point of a conditional use permit if we so choose.

N

Well, the antique 1463 says we can do it for 8 14 30 through 50, but not the parking is in. Is it 20.

A

Different section, so maybe we just need to add the additional section if you added that section that.

A

Would give the board the authority yeah, I thought and again any any kind of substance of changes.

B

We'll probably have to go back to the land use committee. I would assume.

B

um But I thought there was a specific decision not to allow a reduction in off street parking. That's.

B

Why we include that's why we excluded that section from this? That's that's a great explanation. I.

A

Personal opinion, I think there should be the flexibility, but that's my personal opinion.

A

um I think there's some members of the city council that would agree they didn't want.

N

There to be any parking requirements, so I mean the other overarching thing that I didn't say.

A

It ties into the size thing I mean we are looking at a planet with increasingly limited resources.

A

And trying to promote less auto dependence- and you know smaller size units that aren't required.

A

To have multiple parking spaces provide more opportunities for those more conservation of.

A

Building space less traffic- potentially I know from the work I do if you provide parking.

A

You generally generate more trips, you get more driving when you have more parking. It's a it's a.

A

Fine balance and there's certain neighborhoods in the city, where you absolutely will need at least.

A

Two more spaces for some of these, but other parts of the city and that's.

A

Why I say the flexibility would be useful, um especially in the more the nearer the downtown.

A

I'm again speaking personally, I would see many waivers for parking requirements, so that's my.

A

My input on that one.

A

Any other board comments.

A

Yes, jane yeah, I'm back to the parking section at the very end, which is the 10.

O

111 3.20 location of parking facilities on a lot that this makes a point about not allowing.

O

Any of the parking to be located in front yards and again in very small neighborhoods.

O

With multiple residences, multiple adus, I I don't understand how that is going to be.

O

Possible we're going to get into snow removal issues. I don't know how I I literally don't.

O

See any other place where people are going to be able to park. The lots aren't that big.

B

So I just just to clarify what this says is so the existing ordinance. uh I don't know whether you're.

B

Looking at the marked up copy or the or the clean copy, but the existing ordinance has everything.

B

Except for the parenthetical phrase in it, uh so basically right now the city doesn't allow.

B

Parking off street required off street parking spaces, but to be between uh the front yard.

B

A principal building and a street except for single family dwellings and two family.

B

Dwellings where we do allow the city does allow parking in the front yard and because.

B

This this is really the in the in the uh area of trying to fix something where the.

B

City wasn't in compliance with state law, um because the state requires that.

B

um If, in the case of attached accessory dwelling units that the regulations.

B

And an accessory dwelling unit, we felt that we had to include this parenthesis in there.

B

Because otherwise, we'd be stricter, we wouldn't be allowing something.

B

We would have a regulation, a city regulation or an accessory dwelling unit that um or a.

B

City regulation for a single-family dwelling that wasn't available to its single family.

B

Dwelling you and the an accessories rolling in it. I mean it's really technical. It's really just.

B

Trying to make the regulations comply with you know, comport with state law and specifically in.

B

The case of accessory attached accessory dwelling units, so this allowed this, this provision allows.

B

Parking between to be between the front of the building and the street, it doesn't prohibit it.

O

So many knots in one little tiny paragraph and I understand I guess that language already existed.

O

But you know it could be. The language could be clear, like that. An exception is made in.

O

The case of or something because you've got lots of negatives in three sentences.

O

Again, I think it's going to change the character of our neighborhoods to see cars parked.

O

And taking up entire front yards right, we're gonna any sense of green space. It's going to be cars.

O

We're going to have crowded residential areas with.

O

When, when we start getting into multiple adus in these neighborhoods, and I'm already seeing it.

A

So rick with what you were saying, would it be correct to maybe change it to say that the.

A

Restrictions shall not apply.

A

To single family dwellings and accessory dwelling units just make it simpler. Well, I think that might.

B

Have to look at that because then you might say well: does it apply to single family duangs.

B

By themselves, you know what I mean if you say it applies to single family dwellings and accessories.

B

Rolling units we'll have to look we'd have to look at the wording, but you could you could.

B

Because then, you also have to include two family dwellings in there too. It's, but they already.

A

Accepted, I don't remember, they're already accepted yes, the only thing that is being changed here is.

B

The parenthetical phrase that's being added in adding single family with an accessory product.

A

S so what about a detached? I don't remember it might have been a meeting. I missed a detached.

A

Successor dwelling in it could that parking be in the front yard? Yes, so then it should just be.

A

The three situations- single family, two family and accessory doll units- that's the exemption.

B

Thank you could work in the wording.

A

I mean it well. Wording aside is, is that that's right is that's the intent. Yes yeah. Okay,.

A

Any other board comments.

A

I did keep the public hearing open. Do you know if any members of public would like well before I do.

A

That did nick did you have anything to add. I know you're suffering at home, sick you're still with us.

S

But yes, I'm still here um just just a couple of comments. I agree with rick and the gandry jane and.

S

Certainly, members of the public brought up the issue of the size of the unit and I think it's.

S

Been made clear by rick tanker and um beth that there's no real magic to the thousand square feet.

S

We we've had a few applications, come in in the last couple of years that have asked for waivers.

S

To get to a larger size than 750, which is why we created the conditional use permit to be clear.

S

Given there was some dispute as to whether the planning board had the authorization to.

S

To grant a unit larger than uh 750 square feet, using that provision uh towards the end of the.

S

Existing ordinance, so I think the land use committee we put it in there to provide the.

S

Planning board the discretion to say yes or no. If somebody has a sufficient lot area and arrangement.

S

Of structures on it to have an adu, that's bigger than 750 square feet and one project that comes to.

S

My mind is the recent application on belle isle, with that very large property, with an adu which.

S

Would clearly support up to a thousand square feet and clearly be subordinate to the existing.

S

Principal structure of the proposed structure that was part of that project. So again I don't think.

S

There's magic to it, I think, what's really critical in listening to some of the public comments, and I.

S

Think it was addressed by rick and others on the board that the subordination requirements really.

S

Limit the ability in in many instances in the more densely developed portions of portsmouth.

S

To get over the 750 square feet, you can't, you can't be more than 75 percent of the.

S

um uh Height of the existing structure, uh you can't be more than 750 square feet of.

S

The footprint and you uh you can't be more than uh 75, of the existing volume of the principal.

S

Structure on the lot, so there are, there are binding constraints beyond the 750 square foot.

S

Maximum, I I think, jim's uh offering or idea for the architectural design standards of inserting.

S

Similar in appearance, if that's what jim said, I totally agree with that in addressing some of the.

S

Concerns about uh the potential for rigidity and interpreting what uh the same or similar means.

S

um Because the intent is not to duplicate verbatim what the existing principle structure.

S

Is in respect to the adu, so if that takes us to a better place, I think that's a good suggestion.

S

um I think andrews um and others request to see some examples is something.

S

um I think staff can prepare if we're coming back to this at a subsequent meeting.

S

And I do think the handbook that we're going to be putting together should be illustrative to make it.

S

Easier for people to understand, uh what's expected when they come before the planning board and have.

S

To address with subordination requirements and the architectural design standards and.

S

I agree with, uh I think, jane and rick, and maybe others that brought up the parking requirements.

S

That uh it makes sense, the planning board have again flexibility to weigh, in certain instances.

S

The full requirements uh as a baseline in the ordinance and then lastly,.

S

You know, I think we really struggled in the land use committee to.

S

To address the issue of an as of right scenario, or a new administrative approval process for.

S

Very limited projects very limited adus within existing structures, uh and I think it's fair to be.

S

Concerned about establishing a new administrative approval process that we don't currently have.

S

With a sign that has to go out and still notice to direct the butters still with certified mail, we've.

S

Almost in in moving through that conversation at the land use committee, we've almost arrived.

S

At almost the same place as a conditional use permit that it may make sense to send everything.

S

As is the case today to the planning board for approval- it's all in there, but I'm certainly.

S

uh Going to sit down with rick and others to go through the comments tonight and uh if, if you'll.

S

Afford us the opportunity make make some changes uh that we can discuss in a subsequent meeting.

A

Thank you nick. Thank you.

A

Any other board yeah. No, you did you have anything you wanted to add. I'm done.

P

One thing chairman, I was just thinking about the whole permitted use in the sra, grb or srb.

P

um As far as you know, like you, you indicate or I'm sorry if I had those zones wrong, but.

P

The ones that only allow single fan, one single family doing you know. I know one thing that we.

P

Had discussed quite a bit was uh the fact of lot size and trying to get rid of that requirement.

P

Where we have lots that meet the actual lot size, maybe that's a place, we could actually still allow.

P

A permitted use, even though yes, it becomes two dwellings, but the lot size itself is generally.

P

Much bigger than what the typical lot sizes, because, typically most lots don't actually meet.

P

The square foot requirements so that would kind of fit a little bit with the the way we kind of.

P

Have it worded where it has to meet entirely within an actual accessory dwelling building.

P

Or accessory building, or it has to be entirely within the existing structure, so it you know, helps.

P

Maybe just another suggestion I was just thinking yeah, I think and as I think about it,.

A

As I recall, the state law, which I don't have in front of me and you.

A

Can help me out on this rick? If I'm, I think, if you.

A

Permit a single family dwelling you have to permit an accessory drawing in it is that correct.

B

Actually, the it's actually uh not quite that clear and basically in any district, where you.

B

Allow single-family dwellings, you must allow ex attached accessory dwelling units and you can.

B

Require a conditional use permit or special permit for the special exception for them. So that's.

B

The way that's the way the existing ordinance is structured. We we allow attached accessory dwelling.

B

Units in every district, where a single-family dwelling unit is permitted, but we, but we do.

B

Require a conditional use permit, even though the single family is allowed as of right, so you don't.

B

Actually, you have to allow them in that district, but you don't have to allow them as permissively.

B

As you do the single family dwelling, okay, that that explains it. I think my concern remains that.

A

Where we're not allowing two family dwellings, but we are allowing accessory drawing units as we.

A

Should I don't think that should be administrative approval and the separate? The other question is.

A

Corey brought up and one of the members of public brought up, and I hadn't really thought about this.

A

But it's a good point. I think eliza hewitt mentioned it on non-conforming lots of a small.

A

Size should there be a density calculation that relates in some fashion or relates to the size.

A

It and that's going to be a difficult that would will require a look at the state.

A

Statute, because in those lot coverage and other restrictions that can't be.

A

Addressed but on non-conforming loss. I think it may be different, so I don't know if that.

A

I don't remember that conversation, but again I didn't get to all the meetings so.

A

If there's nothing else up here, I'm going to let the public.

A

Give us some last comments if they have any.

H

This is a spreader property owner, 159 mcdonough street. um The whole idea of having permitted.

H

Things was, if I remember correctly, was not really related to the land use committee. I think that's.

H

What the city council asked the land use committee to do was to allow it to be more streamlined.

H

The restrictions on the mailing and stuff are things that the public brought forward and said.

H

You got to have a sign by the street, so people can see it. People should get stuff in the mail in case.

H

You're in florida or on vacation- or you don't live here at all in the winter and now you have.

H

A a sign that you're never going to see. So I agree with you in what you're saying in terms of the but.

H

I think that the land use committee was assigned the job of coming up with a way to make it easier.

H

I guess would be a good way to put it to get them without having to go through meetings and stuff.

H

So that was why the idea there were different ideas that came up as to how to make it possible.

H

For the public to be aware that we just it was decided, you can't see that in a newspaper you.

H

Know not nowadays before everybody read it um and the best way to do that would be to send letters.

H

Directly to the people who are going to be most affected by which are the director butters, so.

H

Not that I agree with, but you know it's what was assigned. Thank you.

A

C

Get your hooda 280 south street um just some clarifications for questions. Andrew.

E

10 814 437 looks like the only place that drainage would be addressed. I did have a question on that.

E

But I let it go, it basically says shall comply with drainage requirements listed under section.

E

10 1320, my question was to find us what so you have to go cross-reference whatever it says here.

E

And this is under the dadu section, so I don't know if it would apply to the adu section and.

E

How you would know that um the other thing I still have a confusion on is ten eight one, four.

E

Three two and three three: it seems that these two contradict each other. One says 22 feet: the.

E

Other one, I don't know what it says, it's it's very confusing to me. um Basically, you have to over the.

E

Required setback from a property line shall be increased between the difference of the building.

E

Height between the dadu and the physical building, that's still confusing the reason I was confused.

E

On the next one 10814-434, the building footprint of the entire building containing a dagu shall.

E

Be no greater than 750. the next one 435 says the gross floor area of the entire building containing.

E

The dagu shall not be greater than 1600., so, if I add- and of course I had to do this- the 750 and.

E

750 is 1500, so if you're even putting something on top of something, are you saying in one you.

E

Can't do it, but in the other one you can and it could hang over. So that was my confusion. There.

E

um I don't know if you could answer that, but it didn't make any sense to me. Thank you.

A

A

A

What's the boards pleasure, we have uh the three options I mentioned earlier. Can I make a motion.

L

Make a motion to continue public hearing until which time we get to see a fully vetted version.

L

Two of this ordinance, meaning if it has to go through land use committee, it has to go through.

L

Alliance committee, the suggestion in the staff memo was to continue until next month, but that.

L

Doesn't in my mind, give it enough time to go through land use or whatever I don't know. Mr.

F

Chairman, I think we have to continue to a date certain okay, and that would be the reason to.

F

Pick a date and let's say we get to the next meeting and we're not ready. I think we could.

F

Continue again, but I I believe, that's the lead, if that's the case, I'll defer to what it says in.

L

The motion to continue public hearing february 16 2023., is there a second for discussion was that a.

A

Second sure uh just declare clarify that if you continue to a date and time certain there's no.

A

Need for a new notice, if you don't do that, you have to re-notice it that's the requirement so.

A

Makes sense this motion with this motion in second there's no requirement to re-notice.

A

Any discussion, I just think that I think mr tanner has a lot of direction from the board and from.

L

The public for requested changes, I don't know how those changes will get vetted. I don't know.

L

How that can be done in one board meeting, but well, as the language committee meeting friday.

N

Yes, there is, there is I'm doing the agenda tomorrow. I think you might have to rewrite it. Nick.

A

Is offered to provide some examples and whatnot, so perhaps a lot to get done, yes, corey. Thank you.

P

Chairman yeah, it's just quickly kind of going back to the public involvement summary report. That was.

P

Put together um over the summer for this, and you know, I really just want folks to keep in mind that.

P

You know a lot of the comments came in that this is too expensive too hard too onerous.

P

To do, and so you know with that in mind and also you know the the whole property right thing you.

P

Know I I do think that folks need to be aware of what's going on in their neighborhoods, but.

P

Once again, a building permit doesn't require a better notification. You know tear down your.

P

House and build a three-story in the place as long as it meets the zoning you're good.

P

To go, nobody needs to know, get out of pickleball court in my backyard. Don't need to tell anybody so.

P

I just want to make sure you know we don't want to turn portsmouth into a homeowners association, so.

P

um I think all the comments tonight were were well founded and just I just you know, we just.

P

Got to keep that in mind as we work on these, not just this ordinance, but all of them so.

P

um I'm wholeheartedly in favor of you know, moving this continuing this conversation, but I just.

P

Wanted to keep that have folks. Keep that in mind. Along with you know the comments that we've uh got.

P

From members of the public, both um folks who have gone through this process, engineers, architects,.

P

um Who have been involved with it as well? So thank you and just to clarify, because.

A

I did speak to some of those engineers and architects and I am one of those beasts so.

A

um I I the idea of bringing more here, isn't to create a burden. I would see a separate set of.

A

Criteria that are really you know, hand sketch and no no drainage, nothing. It's basically just.

A

A purpose to give the butters a chance to have a public meeting that would be the.

A

Only additional requirement which, as nick said it's basically almost the same as what's being.

A

Required already with the notice and the sign and the mailing and everything it's just what.

A

Does the butter do if they get the letter and they see the sign, what do they do with it? They.

A

Talk to the planning director, they can appeal it as a administrative appeal, and it goes to the zba.

A

But if there's an issue that could be raised at a public meeting like we had.

A

On the drainage, in that one recently, the planning board could consider it. um I don't know it's it's.

A

A difference of opinion- and I I respect the other side of opinion- that that's all yes, jim.

Q

I'd like to follow up with corey said about uh making this process as user friendly as possible.

Q

And I think he's right: a lot of people have come up. They don't want to jump in it's way too.

Q

Confusing for the average person to understand what you have to go through to get an adu and.

Q

So I hope that everyone involved keeps the end user in mind when they're preparing this, because.

Q

That's what we're here to do we're not we're not here to produce a document for the planning.

Q

Board or the planning department to use we're preparing a document for the public to use and.

Q

uh I hope everyone remembers that when we again, we want to make this simple, and I I read these.

Q

Ordinances a lot and it's confusing for me, so I think we should work hard on that end. Thank you.

N

um Just to add to that, that's what I think the handbook will really do. We.

N

Need the code to be legally defensible, but the handbook can be what really explains it.

N

In words that, hopefully every homeowner can read, we can put pictures in like none of the.

N

Decisions on what it's going to look like yet have really been made. Just the fact that we.

N

Want one and how we put that together will be one of the um steps once we know what the.

N

Actual legal language is going to be. We can then put together that handbook for everyone.

P

Counselor, how do you see the handbook flowing you know flowing through this board? I guess and the.

P

Land use committee, as far as you know, input that sort of thing um haven't really thought that much.

N

And since the person on staff, that's going to be doing it just started today, I might want to.

N

Have a discussion with that person first to see um what kind of input they might be? Looking for, okay,.

F

Mr chairman, can I just add this conversation. uh The gentleman who started with us today is named.

F

Howard snyder, he will be a land use committee on friday. He I'm sure he will make himself available.

F

To the planning board, he had a previous commitment tonight, otherwise he would have been here, but we.

F

Look forward to his addition to the team. Thank you anybody else. We have a motion. We have a second all.

A

Those in favor aye aye opposed. We are continued to the net that february 16th. I think the date was.

A

Yes, correct [music] public hearing remains open, but the meeting is closed. Thank you very much.