City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Public Works, 8 Dec 2022

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From YouTube: 12.8.2022 Bartlett Street Public Information Meeting

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12.8.2022 Bartlett Street Public Information Meeting

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Good evening everybody um I'm mark bachelder, I'm the design engineer for this project. The.

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Bartlett street area reconstruction project- um if you haven't done so, there is signing.

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Sheets in the back, so at the end of the end of the meeting feel free to decide in there.

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You can go over a couple of quick introductions uh in the back. It's peter rice be very strict.

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Very public works, uh dave defosis sitting right here is project manager, um tyler reese.

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Is our associate engineer and our traffic engineers eric right here so uh that's kind.

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Of the design team for public works of this project, so a quick, uh quick overview of the project on uh things that we've done so far schedule.

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Wise, uh we have been doing uh some some data collecting fact finding of existing conditions.

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uh Both um the roadway layout in traffic volume counts and that sort of thing we've completed.

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Our land survey that's going to be our baseline for our design. We have completed a conceptual.

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Roadway layout we presented that last year it will be presented multiple auctions. Last.

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Year but that's been completed, uh we've also reviewed the utility infrastructure on existing.

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Conditions to see what the underground utilities uh are going to be needing replacements and.

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So that's been completed and we're starting we're underway on our final design and we.

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Anticipate uh that's going to take a few more months here so that we have bit uh bid documents.

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And advertised and sent out the bids sometime in the spring for a summer, 2023 start of the.

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Project anticipate, um let's see here our existing conditions. These are some of the photos that we had on.

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Our last presentation, as you uh I'm assuming that uh all of you have uh driven up and down.

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Bartlett street, you can understand the existing conditions. It's uh fairly uh fairly wide road.

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That allows parking on both sides and there's dedicated travel lanes uh center with white.

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Fog lines um from the upper part which we consider between bennett and uh and woodbury.

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Give or take is, is between 34 and 36 foot wide existing depending on the area and then.

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As you go on the lower end between woodbury and reaching lumber and kate street, it narrows.

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Down to about 24 foot wide.

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There are some uh some. There are sidewalks on both sides until you get down to morning.

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Street uh then, then, there's only sidewalks on one side and there's um pretty old asphalt.

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Sidewalls uh existing positions, thornton street thornton street's a fairly wide street for.

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The amount of traffic flow- that's there, there's uh sidewalks, essentially on one side and on.

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The other side there's partial sidewalks uh again. These are asphalt sidewalks. That.

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Haven't been updated lately and then morning street um is just uh just this existing condition.

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Just shows the asphalt conditions on morning street that we plan to see here uh the other.

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The other part of the existing conditions is the traffic uh speeds. Traffic counts. Now.

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What we've done uh in august through september is a traffic monitoring equipment out of miscellaneous.

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Locations, uh it's six total locations. Sorry, to give you an idea of what we're identifying.

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As average speeds and 85th percentile speeds, um as you can see for for the most part of.

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Bartlett street the average speeds are 20 25 miles per hour or less and uh 85th percentile.

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Or the high is 29 miles per hour, less the speeds are a little bit higher on woodbury.

A

Ave uh coming into garfield street um is eric. Would you like to speak to anything on the.

C

Yeah the reason 85 percentile speed is that's generally. What is used in the industry to.

C

Set speed limits so if we were to set the speed limit on these streets based on the.

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85Th percentile, it would probably put it either 25 or 30 miles an hour. So the next due to.

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The characteristics of the road you know wide setbacks, nice straight shot, not a lot of turning.

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Movements and that's why we're seeing the speeds we are seeing up here. uh You know the.

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Target speed limit the minimum speed limit statewide for roads like this is 25 miles.

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An hour and we've identified this street as a city core connector, with a target speed.

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Of 25 miles an hour so ideally, if you'd like to get those 80 panel speeds down to the more.

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To the 25 mile, an hour range and that's the idea behind traffic common measures that we're.

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Looking to implement to bring those feeds down from the 2829 down to 25., make it more.

C

Reasonable eric what is 20, what is 85th percentile mean 85th percentile is the speed at which.

C

85 of the traffic you see the traveling at or slower there. That means 15 of the traffic.

C

Is traveling faster than that speed.

D

May I ask a question sure: how did you measure this? Like you have calculations, it's a radar.

E

Device that we attach to the utility pole, it's a little gray box. You might have seen.

C

Tyler out there climbing a platter many days, but he was out there putting it out a couple.

C

Of times and uh it's a gray box that nobody knows that you're being monitored, so people.

C

Are driving their their local speeds right? Normally because they don't know, I mean yeah.

C

That tells us you know the number of cars each direction, the speed, a lot of detail. We.

C

Get out of that, but this is a very important summary.

F

How long does the box stay on the hole? Typically like how long do you record that data for.

G

I believe it was three or four days at each locations. Okay, so you know uh evenings around.

G

Five o'clock, the traffic will back up from uh part of the street or from islington back.

G

Or sometimes other way to woodbury, and so cars are really not are moving very very slowly.

G

Does that uh packaged in when the radar? Well it it only measures that the cars that are.

C

Moving, I mean well they're moving but they're moving at very slowly yeah, but this these.

C

Are you know, averages over the course of the whole day, so I mean the few times when the.

C

Traffic backs up it's a very small percentage of the overall time, so it's not going to impact.

C

Your speeds, but we do have the ability to look at it hour by hour by hour and see what.

C

The speeds are during those intervals right. You know certain certain data sets, so you.

H

Can see you know yeah I mean it would be slightly lower in the during those peak hours when.

C

You have the backup, but it'd be up slightly higher around it, but.

C

Speed is clearly an issue, but the volume, I think is even worse, yeah, it's because it's.

C

Constant yeah all right, a very interesting thing: you've seen from the volume measurements.

C

Is the uh violin and wood reacts is like a couplet system, the traffic coming towards.

C

Islington is almost all coming in woodbury this way and they're coming in violet, whereas.

C

Traffic leaving is coming up coming all the way to thornton and then taking a left and.

C

Coming out this way, very little traffic goes up this way right, yeah, so, which we all know.

C

Yeah right yeah, so you've got probably got three times as much traffic heading this direction.

C

That you do that direction, but then, once you get down to this area, it's pretty much even.

H

It's good, let's see.

H

Okay: um okay, oh okay; okay, all right! So.

A

So this similar to the presentation that we had last year this uh we had three three alternatives:.

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That we were presenting on and we got a consensus uh that the this this version, which is similar.

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To the situation we have a castrate in lincoln avenue uh was the third solution which would.

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Be a um it's a 32 foot wide road that allows parking on both sides with a shared or alternating.

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uh 16 foot lane uh travel lane in the center that essentially uses self-regulating alternating.

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Traffic, so this the attempt of this- and it's in and of itself is, uh is a traffic calming.

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uh Feature of of the road, so so just just this alone, we expect some of the some of those.

A

uh uh Average speeds or 85th percent they'll speak to come down. uh This road is 36 now.

H

The the road varies between 36 and 38, depending on where you're at. I think it's a little bit.

A

Wider from from thornton to dennett, it's a little bit wider and then it's 24 from the.

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uh From uh from woodbury down in towards kate street, which that would stay 24, because it's.

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It's no other, there's no room there in that section. um So now this is just going through.

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Slide by slide about uh each section that uh that we're showing what the proposed layout.

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Is so again, uh this section in here pretty much stays unchanged, except for we are.

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Altering the uh curve line on this side here to allow for a sidewalk to come through on.

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This side, that is currently not there in front of position auto and down to the uh the new.

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Intersection down there, yes.

A

No, no I couldn't see on morning street is that possible between yes still be across.

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What there is in a stopwatch.

D

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um Let's see here and then coming further up to the woodbury ave intersection uh again.

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24 foot in this section and then this is where it transitions to 32 foot wide, maintaining.

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A straight shot through the there is a little uh transition uh changing in this section.

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Here that will help uh with sight distances coming out of woodbury, as well as uh um narrowing.

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Up the crosswalk across so you're gonna do the existing sidewalk extended. So it's a little.

D

Bit but some other side like to be replaced yes in new alignments. Yes, the the sidewalks.

A

That we're uh we're designing for five and a half foot wide sidewalks in the area. They.

A

uh They vary between four and four and a half feet. That's it! That's the dimension set. That's.

I

Going to remain the same, no, no we're going to find that yeah. Okay, we try to make this.

H

Side, large, five and a half feet so that two people can actually walk down the sidewalk.

H

Besides that, there will also be a grassroot between the curve and the sidewalk, so the.

H

Reason why the grass strip is there is for signs, it's been telephone poles, but it's also.

H

A place to put the snow bag so that we can actually plow the sidewalks probably and have.

H

A place to put the snow both for the road and for the cyclone is there any possibility.

F

Or wait, I don't know, is there any other option besides grass just because it gets? You know.

F

Really full of weeds and a lot of people have done take their crusts from the house like.

F

Maybe we're at brick strip or something I don't know what you would recommend uh whatever.

F

Oh, it's in the budget expressed, you know if you as a homeowner, want to do something else.

H

What's in the budget is nebraska, are you talking on both sides about no strength, then there's.

B

Going to be grass, yes, so you're going to make round trip this way, narrowing the street or.

E

Narrowing districts so the first slides. What is that the road is 36 roughly wide? It's going.

H

To 32., so it's going to get two feet wider on each side. That's your grass straps.

F

There's no way to is it, um would it be an issue, a budget issue to just extend the concrete.

J

Side up all the way over anyway, I suggest that you know, let's get through the presentation.

K

Perfect and there'll be a lot of opportunity to ask questions it's good stuff, but hold on to it. For a second yeah, we'll answer some of your questions, yeah.

A

And uh the other thing is with these, with these drawings that are showing up right now,.

A

I just want, I just want to say this: is the base uh uh layout for this now there's other.

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Traffic calming uh alternatives uh and auctions that I'm going to present later, that can be.

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Added on at certain locations in here- but this is essentially, this is drawn as the blank.

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Slate like minimum we're going to do this, and then we can pick and choose alternative.

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Then we're going to go further down so.

A

Yeah, there's only a few more slips all right, uh so this is uh from pine street to thornton.

F

Again same setup, 32 foot wide sidewalks on both sides uh and then so that would be no.

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Center line, it wouldn't be any middle paint correct until you get to intersections and.

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Things like that and then and then this is from thornton to dennett street again 32 foot.

A

Wide um all right, so that's kind of a subtle thought as we're always going to hearing about.

H

To do get rid of all the people crosswise.

H

Do a bicycle designations: okay, never went dead street. Yes, yes, 32.

H

Same way, they're closed. Actually, the closer you get up to middle. It gets up to 20 20.

A

It's even narrower when you get towards middle. um So, let's see here. Oh sorry, uh then thornton.

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Street uh this looks a little bit different than what we had last time. We're uh we're.

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Posing to tee up this intersection with woodbury more than it currently is and move the utility.

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Pole, that's currently in that island essentially moved the island, but it'll have a much larger green space here uh to have.

A

Its heat up intersection and the reason for doing that is the controlled traffic, so that.

H

People aren't zooming off woodbury and turning on the thornton, or vice versa and tfd intersection.

H

It's more of a controlled spot you'll have to stop and work better than they do some.

H

Controls control speed, it's another: it not only increases the site distance. So it's single.

H

But it actually is a traffic common measure.

C

A lot easier yeah- and this this also allows us to finish off the uh sorry I'm trying to.

A

Find the right click, the highlighter.

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Options: okay, so this also allows us to complete the sidewalk there's. Currently a sidewalk.

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On this side that ends at this driveway, this will allow us to uh continue to sidewalk up.

A

All the way to connect into this portion of wood, bearing so, if you're, really trying to.

H

Work on position, connections.

H

Okay, uh so then again this just a cut section of what thornton would look like with a dedicated.

A

Parking on one side and then two lanes of traffic uh morning street- and this just illustrates.

A

uh The transitions and widths of morning street for uh for resurfacing there yeah so morning.

A

Street's kind of boring to talk about as a presentation is it pretty much has to go back.

H

There's really nothing you can do we're just going to fix it. We're going to repave it we're.

D

Going to fix needs we're gonna, make it all new like morning, streams. There's nothing really.

H

You can do it absolutely yeah.

D

I think on that, are they gonna limit the parking on that one side of morning streets and turn.

D

Around yes, yes right, yes, yeah! I just talked to sign shop. Today they were out they're going.

C

To take something to put sign in a few days yeah, they were originally going to put it.

C

Was a water meeting they didn't want to build through that.

C

Down five feet, I don't think so. No parking signs will be put in very shortly. Sorry.

D

Just right up here at the intersection next level, I'm sorry.

D

That's right! Oh this is over here it's just going up the hill okay! um So now now we're going to get.

A

Into talking about uh alternative traffic coming uh features, um I also we did. We did.

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Receive yesterday, um some some additional features from a neighborhood meeting that.

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Would happen and they were fantastic ideas- we're trying to incorporate as much as we.

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Can um we did just get them yesterday, so we are kind of digesting them, some of them. I've.

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Tried to put it some of whom we already kind of had that uh idea going in, and uh so just.

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You know as we're going through this. We printed out those those drawings out back. We can look.

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At later, but uh just understand we just got them yesterday, so this presentation is kind.

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Of showing us what we had anticipated uh going forward um so sorry, so uh one of the the locations.

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Is the intersection of thornton and bartlett street um and and one of the design uh features.

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That came in from the neighborhood meeting uh was something similar to this, where we.

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Would uh have some additional pump outs to kind of narrow up the intersection and and.

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And have a raised intersection at that uh in a scenario like this, um we would only be.

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Having stop stop in two directions on thornton street and the and on bartlett street, they.

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Would not have stops in this business with a raised intersection, it's it's creating that.

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That purpose of slowing down, if you've, got the stop signs, they're they're, slow stories.

A

So the other other consideration that we tried, which might be a little bit um bold. I would.

A

Say would be a roundabout scenario where, um where, where these these uh these medians would.

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Be mountable for in case you know, you've got a school bus or like a moving truck or something.

A

Like that that uh needed to make a left-hand turn that sort of thing um could do it.

A

I've got some pictures at the very, very end of publications that this has worked in the.

A

Past so um that's just a an alternative to consider. Let's see uh pine street crosswalk.

A

So right here is the existing crosswalk uh at pine street. uh So we have two alternatives:.

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That we were looking at is one is creating a speed table that would have a raised crosswalk.

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On it um and and then the other alternative would be to have to narrow this down, to something.

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Like 20 feet wide the roadway 20 foot wide and have these bump outs that would allow.

A

Us to also have some trees in there. This also creates a much shorter crosswalk uh and that.

A

Sort of thing for for the pedestrians, so those are two alternatives that we're considering.

A

Would that include some signage? Yes, absolutely.

A

So then these are, these are the neighborhood uh requested features from uh from the neighborhood.

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Meeting that I just wanted to include these in the in the presentation that, um if we needed.

A

To highlight any of those, but all three of those are in here that we can. We can discuss.

A

um I know we took a quick look at it. We had some uh like I said. Some items were great.

A

Ideas that we do uh we're already anticipated using some others. I know we had some issues.

A

With um because we're going to be having a sidewalk coming down on this side of composition,.

A

Otto there's no real need to have a crosswalk at this location. um This median here, I think.

A

Was meant to be somewhere else, I'm not not exactly sure, um and then some of these bump.

A

Outs, we were, we want to take a little bit more in-depth look at like I said we just.

A

Got these uh yesterday um and then and I could speak to the medium that describes nikes somewhere.

L

Else so um the intention was to have that island uh drive over island, but with some.

L

Bollards and signage, to prevent a right term by a larger vehicle that needs a larger turning.

L

Radius coming out of the routine number right.

H

Yeah, okay, yeah: this is actually a driveway right here, yeah I I we figured it's the same.

L

Okay same ideal, just we knew what you meant. Thank you, sir right. [music] Okay, um so and.

A

Then and then again oops sorry. This is a section from essentially pine street down to.

A

Thornton yeah you get, uh the the drawing shows a raised intersection there, which is one of.

A

The things that we had already considered, there are multiple bump outs in a scenario.

A

Like this, I think um you know, could you speak to how traffic calming would work with bump.

A

Outs in a scenario like this and what the you know, uh distance between these features.

A

Yeah generally you're trying to keep speeds the 28-25 miles an hour range, the optimal.

C

Spacing is to have a traffic called, they measure every 400 feet, or so I feel what the distance.

C

Is here, but I think if we have one here and one there, is that remember the distance on.

C

That I thought that was about eight one between six and eight hundred from pine to yeah. So.

C

Maybe, rather than doing several like this- and maybe you have one other one at this location.

C

Halfway in between which my service, this as well one of the difficulties with the multiple.

C

Is keeping the street maintain your clearing snow allowed in wintertime? um You know it's.

C

A good idea, your trees would be having have a good narrowing effect on the street. It's.

C

Just that it does make maintenance is the difficult and uh you know, having one item.

C

Rather than several smaller ones, maybe this is a factor yeah and with many pump outs, the.

A

Other thing is the drainage, um though most what we like to do on home pellets is is in.

A

Areas like right here would have a catch basin. So then, therefore there would be a touch base.

A

And we we'd have a lot more catch bases, because the flow line, storm drones, first uh yeah storm.

A

Drains so the flow line would follow the curb line here. So every time there's a bump out.

A

There essentially needs to be a storm train to get that water out of there. The water won't.

A

Be able to actually go around because of the crown of the stream, um so those those are.

A

Just some design considerations, utilities inside considerations on the phone belts.

A

And then thornton street uh it looks fairly similar. There's a proposed uh bump out in.

A

This corner here, which I think is definitely something that we can implement to help.

A

Slow down the traffic that turns right here, this looks a little bit different because.

A

I think we at the time we opposed just keeping an island there, but now we're looking at seeing.

A

That intersection um so now I open the floor to questions uh a question and I don't know one is camille.

G

Make a comment first and then I I think there really should be a crosswalk at morning. Street.

G

There's a lot of pedestrians from morning street across they turn left. They go up to.

G

The park- and you know that side is much more favorable. It's a better sidewalk than it is.

G

On the left side of bartlett that avoids having a cross at woodbury, which is a bad place, surprise.

G

It's much easier cross at um morning street and then from lab to go up up and then across.

G

Clinton there's some cross whatever, so I'm just trying to say there's a lot of people.

G

Currently, using that as a as a place across and also I mean people go to richie lumber.

G

Too I mean and that you don't want to go all the way down to kate street across the street.

G

And come back, but you know it's not a community. um I would urge to include a crosswalk there.

G

um And then also is this question when you do the survey, if you uh counted the cars that.

G

Are actually parked on part of it because um in my observation, kxg works uh well, oh.

G

Sorry sorry capacity works well because there are a lot of um cars parked and that does.

G

um That is effective, um but this is um on the street. There's not that many in my observation.

G

There's not that much uh use of on-street parking and I would like the way it works.

G

Like because there's no cars parts, there's no room for parts to your parked on the lower.

G

Apartment you're going up pretty fast and then once you get asked clinton likes, I wouldn't.

G

Want my car to be parked there, but you know be that first car on the right. You know.

G

That it's like a pity. You know it was just where's. You know cast where there's parking.

G

All the way along, you know, but you they have this. um This launch ramp up up the hill and.

G

Then all of a sudden, our car is um games anyway. So I just went music uh there's not that many.

G

Parked cars to to slow the cars and there shouldn't be because I wouldn't uh I wouldn't.

G

Leave my car there.

A

And to his point, my car was total.

A

I'm not sure I could make any clearer. It was hit by a drunk driver, speeding, totally.

A

So so what I'm hearing is that you don't want parking on privacy? No, I don't want that to.

G

Be hey. What are you saying I'm trying to say? Is it's not sufficient to consider that.

G

Traffic colony because they're not right, that's not what's being proposed. No, you did say we're.

L

Talking about choke points to be able to officially restrict the roadway but still allow some.

K

Parts, I think the issue that is at hand is that we have traffic calling and slowing on.

J

The upper bartlet there's a concern for folks who live on lower bartlett that that the the.

J

Frequently used ending up, the bartlett is often a acceleration. Yes, there's nothing blocking.

J

Them and they're going up a hill, so they hit the gas and that um there's when they get.

J

To the upper bartlett section, if they're traffic calming elements there, that's great but there's.

J

Nothing that I'm seeing specifically that slowing that trajectory into the upper bartlett.

J

Area I agree and that that's the area- that's currently 24 foot widest there's a there's.

A

Only a small amount of that can be done in that particular area and also based off of.

A

Our our data collections also the lowest speeds that we've observed in that entire area is.

A

24 as an average, I don't think we're asking you to reduce that. I'm asking you to after.

D

That not make it so wide and open right right. Well, I'm just saying you're modeling, the the.

G

Design after kate uh castry, I'm saying cass street in bartlett are not nowadays because.

G

Yeah yeah because there isn't as much on street parking used, and so that's not. You can't rely.

G

On that, as a um yes and so again, what we're also going going from is existing lower bartlett.

A

24 foot upper bartlett 36 to 38 feet going down to 32 already so at some point there.

A

Has to be a transition going from 24 to 32.. Unfortunately, it's it's right at woodbury.

A

With that transition currently happens, one of the options you're proposing, though, is.

K

To choke down the pine street crosswalk, yes, so you're taking it, you know you're pushing.

K

It down that's right, so your point about trying to calm down the acceleration. We should look.

K

At you know, how do you know how to address that? But if you're, if you're coming into a.

K

20-Foot area yeah they may they may start to get to that point. They're not going to.

K

Go fast through that appointment section, but they said most of the traffic that's coming.

D

Up it's shooting so fast. Where are they trying to go so they're trying to probably go to.

D

95 or go out with the other way right when we get there, so we had talked about it. The.

D

Last meeting having a sign before the ugly railroad bridge, because that would direct.

D

People to the student street and not even fit part with people shooting past thornton.

D

And all that, so I don't understand why and actually um I was almost in an accident today.

D

Where someone didn't see that flashing stop sign and we were coming up onto kate street.

D

From islington and they almost decide swipe the whole car I mean it came within like of.

D

Course I'm getting hit and I think if more people knew that that was the turn and we're.

D

Guessing that the driver- I don't know how didn't see but there's not enough signage.

D

There and if I saw a sign and that I recommend- and I don't know how we can't make people.

D

Use their language, but they should use their believers right or left somehow, because if.

D

I see someone going to the right going up or bartlett, then I I start I mean I use bible.

D

English to go right, I also use my wingers to go left because that driver at that flashing.

D

Stop sign wants to know, so I think if you've had better signage there, it might probably.

D

Be able for traffic going up partly, and I think, having cars on both sides of the street.

D

Is a negative because there's no bike and then bikes have to risk being in traffic totally.

D

And to me it's more confusing, I think, there's more drivers getting confused about what the.

D

Heck so there's no so you're talking about the intersection! Well, I'm talking about the.

K

Signage, so so the signage I can understand. You requested that and eric actually looked.

K

To see if we had space to be able to replace those signs, it's a very clouded area already.

K

So we, you know, we don't believe this adequate space to be able to provide, and we don't own.

K

The railroad bridge it'll mount the signage, I'm not talking about.

D

Sure, having a sign well, there's something visible when you're at that massive part of.

G

The street I go through there every day, multiple times if people follow their rules for their.

K

Training were they supposed to put blinkers on. It, helps people know what you're doing.

G

I agree, though, is that we should be directed.

C

Yeah I mean we've done a lot of traffic studies in the area in traffic house and it's really.

C

A bigger picture issue that has to do with the traffic circle and the bypass uh you know.

C

If you go out kate street hydrogen way, you come to the end of the road. There's a signal.

C

Across the boardwick, but then immediately you should take a ride out of the bypass you.

C

Come to the next segment, like hopefully in college and those two singles just don't work.

C

Well together, then, after that, you have a long line of traffic to get in and around the circle.

C

So what people are doing is you said: they're cutting up behind the street over to woodbury.

C

Then, if they're going north on the turnpike, they take a lap on the rockingham app and.

C

They go that way. They avoid the circle all together until we can get that problem fixed.

C

They're going to continue to go up violet street, regardless of what any signs is people.

C

Who know the earrings will not go out, they know it's quicker to go up our way, but even.

D

On the one-way section of woodbury- and we were talking about the your car being totaled.

D

I I was witnessed a three-car collision right on the way there and the driver was not drunk.

D

In the morning in the sun and there's chick it's to it's blinding, so if that is going.

D

To continue to happen and that they need to slow traffic down in the latter ways and and.

D

Even maybe cul-de-sac that street out, that would actually say, lower bartlett if they.

E

Brought the sacked off if woodbury the tackle, woodbury and cabbage and they locked it off.

D

And made morning a whole new turn straight, like just a whole blue shade, so that the only.

D

People that would be going on those streets would be the people not trying to get people.

D

To cut through they're bigger picture type things right now, we're focusing on the broad street section.

K

um So we could just kind of drill down a little bit more into that specific stream um yeah.

C

My folks in the traffic circle and the bypass that's in the 10-year plan, so I mean it's.

C

Out there, but we're looking at something we can do next year, just to close the loop on that, because I think it's very relevant to part of the street assigned on you know so that folks.

G

At the islington, so you can see, but kate street is a way to 95 to route 16.. That's one of.

G

The stuff, because they do my thing, I know there are plenty of both who are regularly.

G

Locked in using part of that stream, but there are also a lot of tourists, so I don't know.

G

If I've tried to put it on my gps and it doesn't update fast enough once you go under the bridge.

G

So just some sort of notice would be helpful. I know it's. It's tough because the you know.

G

The railroad track- I don't know if there's a way to coordinate with those boats or yes,.

G

I don't know what the history is there, but it would be helpful yeah I mean I think we.

K

Understand what the request is, and you know we'll look to see what we can do. You know.

K

We haven't, we have heard that request before, so it is something that we understand what.

K

The value, so I would say that I think that the designs that you showed us generally speaking.

J

I, like, I think, they're positive and um I like the trees and the bump outs at the park. I.

J

Know I have a four-year-old and a ten-year-old who crossed there all the time I like the.

J

Wider sidewalks, especially because I am on a really bad direction, whatever the side woodbury.

J

Is on I'm on that side of bartlett street and the sidewalk from the from where I live.

J

Up to the park is not great, um and so I, like all of that idea, I, like the grass, I think.

J

That would be aesthetically much better than what we have now and I would love a buffer.

J

For when I'm walking with my four-year-old and we're not holding hands, not to feel the.

J

Entire time that if she trips and falls into the street, it's like a crisis. um I think that.

J

um I it would be a nice to have that crosswalk there on morning street, because there is a.

J

I mean I live at the corner of woodbury and bartlett below woodbury. I see people jaywalking.

J

There constantly it's like just it's just the way of the world. It's going to be able.

J

To have another safe place to cross, I think, would be nice. um My only concern that I didn't.

J

See in this plan is something addressing the crossing at woodbury clinton, [music] um intersection.

J

So the big problem that I have as somebody who lives below woodbury, is that when I walk.

J

With my children up to woodbury, there are two utility poles. Nobody can see us. I have.

J

To basically like stick my body out into the intersection, and hopefully people stop and.

J

As I'm sure you're aware, people do not always stop right at the stop, and um so that for.

J

Me would be something I would like to see change or to have something. That's um a little.

J

More traffic calming in that I know it's not a proper four-way, but in that area it would.

J

Be something I would like to say, I thought your design showed a more of a bump out right.

F

There, where woodbury comes down in his partner yeah on the other side, where those hedges.

F

Are just because abilities that you could address that yeah and then and I believe the.

A

Correctly has been rolling, the existing the crosswalk goes across yeah, so one of the things.

A

Is we moved it up here to get better sight lines, um and this this is coming out? This.

A

Is kind of bumping out like four feet, I mean I know it's kind of a curve there anyway is that is that more of a curve, or is that.

J

That's existing condition s. The existing conditions is this on the right hand, side. Oh, this side.

A

Here, it's it's pretty much following the same line that it's in this, this kind of bumps.

A

Out a little bit just because the curved lines here don't really match the curb lines over.

A

Here, this kind of just creates the a set uh radius, but it's about the same still the same.

L

As it is yeah I mean this is very awkward driveways. Yes, yes,.

A

It's going to be very difficult to get this section completely at ada, compliant with slopes.

A

Because this thing, so this driveway is steep. There's a lot of a lot of slope issues so.

J

I'm the second one in from that intersection. uh No, I think that's john's.

D

In between not that one yeah that grayish part there, that's where we are. Oh, that's.

D

Yeah, it's funny the way that is because there's a there's, a driveway and then a driveway, so.

A

Maybe you're combining our driveways for the there's a few of us here that are.

J

At the lower part of the area and the uh just the non-stop you know, there's nothing you're.

B

Going to do about it, I know people are going to cruise to that intersection. It's something.

J

That I knew when I bought the house, um it's just anything that we could do to change the.

J

Shape of the intersections, so that people are not thinking that it's a slight lane as.

J

Opposed to a hard, stop and a right hand.

H

So we can does it eric. Is it? What do you think about community crossword yeah right here.

C

No here there there, um as opposed to pine or in addition to what's the distance between here and there, is that.

C

H

A

It's my only concern on something like that would be that that from right here then the.

A

Grade goes down quite a bit, so you find somebody that likes to go fast, yeah. They will slow.

D

Down to the first one, that's true, they would have to really guess yeah right. [music] The.

D

Crosswalk, is it it's over here right there and you're taking it away from there.

A

It's a shrub, it's it's right, but that's somebody's house right there right, so somebody's houses.

D

With a lot of bushes around the corner are is: are they going to do something with that.

D

That's homeowners, property, property right! That's that's! Why that's why partially this.

A

I'm proposing to bump this out- or this transition this out a little bit more so that you can.

A

Increase your sight distances when a car is parked here, you're not staring at bushes and.

A

Then you have to kind of like inch out this. The the stop bar is probably moving four four.

A

More feet out, so you can get a little bit more sight distance around those bushes and.

D

We can't do anything so.

D

So you can look at it to see if we can see it up a little bit more, but the property lines.

A

Far very close to the edge here- I'm not talking about this- I'm talking about here, yeah.

D

Yeah, I'm sorry can you make this like here? Maybe if we took away the parking at the end.

H

Of woodbury avenue, yeah.

C

Because there shouldn't be any parking for 30 feet, anyways we'd have to take the last.

C

Two spaces yeah on this side here and shift the travel lane toward the bushes yeah.

C

That's not for that issue. It's to slow down, it's a completely different. um I think it's.

D

A good idea, but we would have to take those parking spaces away, which is why we didn't.

H

Do it when we did woodward avenue in 2008., I would say the more dangerous intersection.

J

For pedestrians is woodbury avenue versus bartlett, because you have a very long view.

J

Of who's coming down bartlett and you can cross easily, whereas woodbury you cannot see.

J

The cars that are coming unless you stick your body out into the road around the utility.

J

Floor, but if we did that, if we did that just hold on because you're changing you're changing.

H

Everything you do that so all of a sudden, now off the edge of the roads.

H

If the edge of the road is now here now, you now you're coming out.

H

So I think what we should do is maybe go out there with some pain and paint it out. So we.

H

Can look at it and just see if it works? Who are not? You know, people who are attending.

D

From homework, I don't mean to believe from this point when I walk this every day,.

J

Have children and that those neighborhoods have said that's a main issue for them.

A

So there's also a couple, so what we're talking about is potentially squaring this up on this.

A

Side, yes, some, no, no yeah, the other. The other thing is is because this has been. I don't.

A

Even know what the numbers are, but more than 90 of people in woodbury take a right-hand.

A

Turn so all they do, is they look left they're, not looking to see if somebody's walking up.

A

Absolutely that's true everyone, but that's every situation, but we're talking about we'll.

A

Take a look at it, uh go out in the field and check to see if there's any opportunity to.

A

Square, this up to get better angles sight lines for pedestrians and to maybe square.

A

That up a little bit more people can talk on woodbury for traffic, calming purpose right.

D

No, but I mean if there's like someone a tenant, because there are some tenants on that side.

D

Who lose our parking spot? They can always walk on by that students.

H

Thinking to myself, while you were talking.

H

Before it might make sense to do something here, mark just to protect the sun space so.

H

We can look at that. That's what we've seen you're going to do on that we've been seeing.

H

Where you understand so uh he's talking about potentially doing a bump out here, it looks very. It would look.

A

Very similar to what uh is on the proposals from the neighborhood, uh I believe they had.

L

A bump out at that location, so they put something like that where right and then you don't have.

A

To have a sacrificial car so as you're coming up, you would see around magazine and now again.

A

Also narrow up the crosswalk yeah yeah as well. So that's a good idea.

F

I think most of us are pro the tree idea pro as many bump outs and trees as we can get.

F

um How do you handle like that is a business there, for instance, all right? Let's stop.

F

How do you handle individual homeowners who don't want to lose or businesses who don't.

F

Want to lose it space in front of them, so in this particular case, you're not allowed.

H

To park within 20 years, 25 years, it's 20 feet in an intersection unless you've got a stop.

C

Sign then it's 30 seconds.

L

I just wanted to state that I'm impressed by what I'm saying that you've embraced the.

L

Neighborhood design in a lot of ways- and I very much appreciate that I I I've seen some.

L

Things that are that are impressive, that are, it's never going to be a panacea. The fact.

L

That you gotta a a sidewalk in front of precision. Auto, that's a big, that's huge and- and uh I.

L

Quality for that, that's that's wonderful, um so I want to start out with all the positive.

L

I think we should be talking about the intersection. I think the intersection is going to have.

L

A huge impact on this whole neighborhood and I could I could support someone, but I know.

L

There are a lot of people who don't get cringe at the idea of of a roundabout. I I think around.

L

About is very successful in a common traffic, so I'm surprised we're not sort of see that.

K

One, you know a staff standpoint. We would like the opportunity to try a roundabout. I mean.

K

It's yeah, we propose it a number of times shut down every time.

D

The residents come together and say this is what you'd like to do. You know that gives.

K

Our ability to you know, I think I think everyone here is so funny about it, yeah how many residents.

D

Do you need no tell us about it seriously? You've been through this political process.

K

Which is you know better than 60, but we're not going.

K

To go out and do surveys and numbers and if there's a there's, an overwhelming support.

C

And not overwhelming who inquire did not do it.

A

And number three I'd like to point out that you're a professional engineer for a living.

A

So, to some degree we have what we want, but we also want you to give us advice. What you're.

A

Doing so, I assume you bring this idea because it's a good idea in other places: oh yeah, they've.

C

Been done, many neighborhoods, like we think it's a good idea. It's just a little. It's a.

H

Little different, so can we hear that I want to jam it down your throats? How do you fit.

H

It here because I I live right on the corner and I wonder how do you fix it? Yeah the islands.

C

Have to be mountable, you have to be able to be driven over by larger vehicles.

H

Sure yeah, so this this is just an example of one that's. This is just chicago, but it's.

A

A small this is an 18 foot, diameter island and it's got about two foot. That's mountable.

A

um And what's what's nice about this, is that um there is enough opportunity to say a truck.

A

Comes through and needs to make a left-hand turn there. They can theoretically go to the.

A

Left of that, in this scenario um versus having to go all the way, the intent is to go all.

A

The way around, but that's just that's just an example, other ones that we were talking.

A

About right would be, and that's why, on this version, splitter islands.

H

That I don't know why chicago does some of the things [music] yeah. It should be a year.

A

Yeah, okay, yeah so um but yeah. In this scenario, I think we were talking about not necessarily.

B

Having a plant or anything in the center island, it would be something random to make sure.

A

That school buses or the errant truck that came through, could could get over it. um This.

A

Also allows for it. It moves the pedestrian walkways a little bit further away from the.

A

Intersection that has areas of refuge in the in island state they're, dealing with car.

G

Crossing cars in one direction at a time. um The other thing is, I mean it will slow, slow.

A

People down it's, it's something, it'll be a some kind of visual structure in essentially.

A

In the middle of the road that somebody coming up to that, I would hope, as a driver, that you.

A

Slow down, if you see something in the middle of the road that um and there's a median at.

A

Each of the street s: yes, he lives on the corner. He raised to a half, oh she's, in the corner.

A

There: okay, let's uh see if I can figure out.

A

Teresa 360 heroes. Oh yes, can you hear me yeah, okay,.

I

um Yes, I'm at 340 thornton um on the corner. There um I've been here since 1995, so I lived.

I

At this intersection, when we had only two stop signs- and my concern has always been.

I

Whatever other options, we talk about, whether it's a raised table or it's a roundabout.

I

We lose our stop signs and I was always amazed at how quickly somebody could try and make.

I

That left-hand turn if there was no stop sign.

I

My other concern is, and always has been school buses, fire trucks and plows and just putting.

I

Stuff in the middle of the street, I don't think is, is the answer. I love the bump out.

I

I love trees. What was done on dennett was amazing. Again I lived here when done it didn't.

I

Have any of those bump outs or designated parking spots, and it was a speedway, and I.

I

Never really believed that if they were going to straighten out the street and make more.

I

Sidewalks and and make it a better street that it would slow people down, but it did.

I

And the stop signs did there didn't used to be a single stop sign on dennett street, so.

I

That's where I'm coming from thanks.

D

So can we can we have it as a as a test? As a um you know, a few years ago you put the.

D

Bollards to slow down traffic and then I think one person something or can this be or is.

D

It too big of a deal to do this as a trial.

D

It could be done probably as a trial in the springtime or you know you wouldn't want. We.

B

We could make a circle using you know: bollards, linears or barrels or cones, or something to.

C

People to drive around I mean to give people an idea. I think it will stop people, whereas.

D

A stop sign does not stop, because you really have to worry about. I mean I'm from france.

D

They're everywhere they in my village 300 people, they are everywhere, they slow traffic.

D

Okay and the stop sign, you don't have to stop at a stop sign. But when you have the round.

B

Thing you stop yeah, so please.

K

um It's I mean, I know I mean it's, we don't have them here, so we're not used to them, but.

B

Yeah, I'm from sweden and europe like they're, everywhere yeah, it's so annoying like yeah.

D

But you got used to it: you're annoying but yeah they're, so annoying because it's so slow.

D

To get home like some of those great roads where you used to shoot like 50 miles an hour.

D

But and every single intersection slow down slow down and it truly does go down traffic.

D

And when my dad lives in sweden, it they have that stupid roundabout right in front of his.

D

House and it's not even a four-way intersection, it's just like a three-way intersection and.

D

It's not really like a roundabout. It's barely just like something painted in the street.

D

But like yeah, the only challenge about holding off the spring to we're probably going to.

K

Do that um we're pilot, it will impact. You know we're in design right now we're trying.

K

To move forward so it would be good to get consensus about what we want now um I don't.

K

Know how we can do a lot of it. You know, finally, up to that point and just kind of leave. It.

A

Rough for now, whether that would impact the design schedule, foreign.

A

Intersection like this, that it's going to require the total catch bases, the additional.

A

Drainage, which is fine, it's just that if we're going down the road of the roundabout, it's.

A

Completely different drainage scenario, but it could be something where we you know just.

A

Head off drainage on either side or something and then with the anticipation. One way or.

A

The other final design- something like that, but the whole lot of this means to try to.

K

Firm up selection, so that we can, if we want to get into construction, you know in order.

K

For us to do that, we need to finalize the society, so we have to an apartment safety.

K

As well, I perform them, so you know what I would anticipate is would incorporate some.

K

Of the stuff we're hearing tonight we go to parking traffic and safety with what the refined.

K

Design is- and you can all you know, participate in that um as well, and we look to finalize.

K

The design in the next month or so last year on vacation. So so when you're thinking about.

K

You know the other day, so do you, okay, do you, as as village experts of engineering and streams.

D

Do you have a favorite to yeah, because I I mean, I think that between those two I mean.

D

They're both excellent options with help and then to you know, be like testing and stuff.

D

That would slow down the progress of bartlett street and we really want to do that as a.

D

Neighborhood now we're finally thrilled that, because it's finally coming together, I don't think any one of us here is tell them. Let me know if I'm wrong, we want to slow down.

D

That progress, so I'd like to make a program in seven episode, so what happens is we do.

K

Something that's too far, afield um we're going to hear everybody in the cities. Everybody.

K

In the city drives they're all experts, standpoint.

K

um I I think the race intersection is probably the least impactful radical change. People.

K

Have seen the race intersections they've interacted with them they're not too far afield, part.

K

Of the street is a very high profile road. Well, no everybody else! So if from uh from.

K

Something that would get done and probably not live on for three years talking about.

K

You know what was done wrong, um you're, better off one of the race of reception. If you don't.

K

Care about that um see they would start talking like a roundabouts real soon. No, no! No! No. I mean if we put around.

D

About a thornton and brightlands yeah, that's not bad at all! Right! That's a great idea.

D

Because I, like both options, that, with the raised table interception, why do we need to.

F

Lose the two-stop signs. Could we why just explain that? Well, the the intent of the stop.

C

Sign is the slow driver sure right and it's not the proper use of this officer and they're.

C

Not working correct because they're not warranted in the first place, yeah 10 times the traffic.

C

On barley that you do on thornton street, so people come up ireland and say well. There's.

C

Never anybody coming here. They just go right through it, which is why they move away from.

C

Yeah and so with the rice, they would be forced to at least slow down a little more or about the same as they do now. Maybe rolling through the stop side they get up there and then they.

C

Come off it, so it's I don't know if you've been to cambridge or well. We have them right.

C

On uh maplewood yeah yeah and it does slow traffic down sure yeah. Absolutely so. The really.

C

We'd like to get rid of that stop sign because it's not warned it's not the proper treated.

C

That intersection, they have a four-way stop at that location, they're not going to fully.

H

Stop anyway, because there's not enough traffic on the side streets that they're scared! That.

H

Something's gonna come that's why they don't stop. It makes people disrespectful change.

H

It you don't, do it again and you don't win before we start then you're going to get the.

H

Same situation, you get a raise intersection with a four-way. Stop it's the exact same thing.

H

As you go around it's just to raise intersections here, yeah I feel like for children and the.

F

Only thing that I thought I had as a mother, my kids are grown now that they walk to me.

F

Franklin when they were little and they braved that intersection, and I would all the time.

F

Watch cars not stop for my daughter, even with four stop signs for a child walking alone.

F

They would just blower off at rush hour right, um so I'd like to stop sign called pedestrians.

F

A little bit to have that priority, but I understand your point and and one other thing we could.

C

Do is you know with a raised intersection if we were to get rid of the stop signs on.

C

Bartlett they could be replaced with an rrb on the flashing signals.

C

H

And then also with the I mean, because you would still have a stop on thornton and if.

A

It was raised that will oh, ultimately slow down the vehicles that just blow right through.

A

There I mean it's, you know it's they're gonna. They it's like a stop sign and uh and the.

A

uh And ramp up so that would definitely slow that down plus we're talking about in this.

A

Scenario you can see this is the existing yeah and edge the edge of pavement corner.

A

Like so we're we're talking about like really bringing this up, so it's it's a it's a sharper.

A

Turn I'm the first I'm the next house over. So I just watch them cut the curb and accelerate.

F

Similar to maximize having the most measures.

E

They're, approximately okay, it's theater, you know you're talking about the voice, the public.

E

uh If you go with the roundabout, I can get behind the roundabout. If you need backup, I.

L

Think this group here will defend the neighborhood consensus. Is the right to do that and you.

K

Know where, where are our desire, is to put something else together that you all want.

K

We don't want to do something that you're all going to be. You know those pitfalls at.

K

Us afterwards, um you know we need we need. You know our jobs to try to answer problems.

K

Make things safer and try to you know, invest the concerns of the residents. So that's that's.

K

What our effort has been to date and that's what we're hoping to be able to do so if you.

K

Know what we could do is we could bring into parking traffic and safety saying you know.

K

Here's the overall we'll bring it sooner than later and say: okay, here's the overall thing.

K

We want to input we out of a more public viewing, so that will be advertised and then you know.

K

It'll then get accepted by city council um the end of the day, and so it's like we went.

K

Through the process it was public, betting will then slow down the schedule for the summer.

L

Construction, uh I think we can still do it. Okay, so my feeling is that most people in.

J

This room, their concern, is speed and volume. So I think both of these options are mine.

J

um I kind of feel like the roundabout, might be more successful in reducing volume in that.

J

People tend to avoid that, whereas a bump out is too similar to a regular intersection where.

B

It's more familiar, I'm just throwing that out there as a part of the consideration. Curiosity.

K

Show of hands, you know who would prefer the roundabout.

F

S [music] versus the raised intersection.

A

In your professional opinion, what option slows traffic and minimizes volume to two or what.

A

Is a better shot of work.

K

Volume is not going to really change until until the invest a lot of computers, yeah.

C

Which means, I would say, the roundabout would be better for the speed, because I mean I'm.

C

Taking driving down maplewood right now, but you do have to slow down somewhat but but.

C

Also here you have such a heavy left turn. You know with that who raised the intersection.

C

Being uh it wouldn't discourage that left turn.

C

The only problem, the roundabout you just have to make sure people don't have it like this.

C

This corner here so all right, yeah, all right, you mean eric, oh yeah and.

C

Yeah, because we can keep the stop signs in place for that.

K

Yeah, the only thing I'm worried about a temporary thing is since people.

L

Look at the barrels and stuff and they they don't take it as seriously they they get confused.

L

And and there there were, if they're, worried about their tires things that they're uh you.

L

Know suspension the tires and things like that with something more permanent uh they'll.

L

Treat it differently, it's you know that I I'm I'm just worried that we're setting ourselves.

L

Up for failure that we don't do the trial, maybe if we do a trial, then we're bringing.

D

Attention to a solution that can be changed because it's only temporary, whereas if we.

D

Just go for it, it's got to be much harder, it will be maybe more painful, but so I agree.

F

With both of them, I agree with both of those points wholeheartedly. I think the ballers.

F

The barrels all the time yeah just irritate people yeah and they don't like the way they.

F

Look and they want to run them over and then they all get things and they all start waiting.

F

In on their opinions- and I know that may sound really so serving that we- we are the media.

F

Resident, I think, there's challenges. You know. You've gone investments to putting a bunch.

K

Of money into the ground, significant investment, if we get to that point, everybody's, like oh.

K

Yeah, that was a mistake yeah. Why did why didn't you try it out ahead of time. You know yes,.

K

A temporary trial is not perfect, but at least we'll give you some indication of traffic.

K

Flow of you know, and I think you could do it in a manner of learning. That's you know.

K

We can put spikes in the ground or something like that.

D

I mean: how can you be a mistake aside from perception, I mean, why would it be a mistake.

K

I mean so the new council gets elected.

K

We end up tearing it up. My point is: if, if we are, we want to make it successful, we should.

K

Show that we've done due diligence that we've done pilot effort, that we've shown that you.

K

Know we keep very public, we talked about it very, you know, do advanced advertising talk.

K

About it residents requesting around about city looking at trying a new thing experimenting.

K

Multiple multiple times we talked about it with big variable message: boards up to make it clear and they'll still be upset after the fact, but it won't be for like a try. If.

K

We just go ahead and do it. We just got to make sure.

F

Tonight, traffic circle used to be a four-way intersection. Yes, yes, I mean. So it's exactly.

K

Like that is right, that was bigger.

F

K

Something else.

D

Is because guess what the four different states that I lived in did not have roundabouts.

D

Which is fine, but I'm saying okay, I'm still getting used to the roundabouts. So now my.

D

Question here is I've been driving a long time on the roundabouts? You can only go in.

D

One direction everything is to the right correct, so I can't make left turn. I have to go around.

D

The whole around.

A

I'm saying I can learn this, I'm still not too old to learn. Hopefully, but I'm saying.

D

If that's what works and that's what the majority wants, then why not just stories.

A

And then you have arrows pointing in the direction right that people know that, like a lot of.

E

Talk nancy johnson, hi.

I

The only couple of things about the roundabout versus the the raise table and I'm looking.

I

At the maps here.

I

I think it would be very difficult to get a good idea of how people would react to a.

I

Roundabout with bollards or cones or whatever you want to do only because it wouldn't compare.

I

It to first of all permanent structures, but it also wouldn't compare it to the alternative.

I

And if you look at the two intersections, what the roundabout's going to do is it's going.

I

To open up the intersection and put some stuff in the middle, whereas the raised table, if.

I

You look on every corner, we have bump outs, so the intersection gets smaller.

I

And you're, not you wouldn't be comparing apples, and you know these two alternatives. It would.

I

Be do we do the four-way stop or we do. We do the roundabout and I'm not sure, there's.

I

Any way to test a raised table or narrow the um you know bump out the curbs to see if that.

I

Has the same effect, I don't think other than the right hand, turn from scoring on to bartlett that there's going.

A

To be much difference with the race intersection compared to what's existing right, so the whole.

A

Thing that we're talking about is the traffic going from bartlett, making the left hand turn.

A

On the thornton, be it existing with a stop sign or what we're proposing with a with a.

B

Raised intersection is pretty much going to be the same as it is now, so I think that was.

A

That was one of the things that we.

I

So so the bump outs would not be different between the roundabout and the raised intersection.

I

No, they would be you're correct, but what mark is saying is that the room, the intersection.

H

Would be tightened up for sure and the race intersection configuration and it would help.

H

To slow the traffic down, that's supposed to be stopped anyway, but it would slow them down.

H

The roundabout would definitely slow down the process of migrating through the neighborhood.

H

And that's really the difference. One is going to be homeless. What's there now, but slower.

H

And the other one is a totally different experience for navigating through the neighborhood and.

H

What that might do, you know it might be that some people decide or they don't want to go.

H

Around around about 270 degrees, maybe they'll go down thornton street to go to debit and.

H

Take a look to demonstrate, I don't know how it's going to happen. What's going to happen.

H

But it's going to be different. It's going to be very different.

I

Right so I see what you're saying about basically scaring people away, but what about the people.

I

Who who actually have to go through the neighborhood yeah, the fire trucks and the dump trucks? And.

I

The and the school buses- and we would make sure that all those vehicles through there.

H

Without a problem believe me traffic right: it's uh we've discussed a lot of these concepts.

H

With the fire department and the police already, and because it's not a principal response.

H

Response rule their pretty much on board preliminarily, but they have not seen final design plans.

H

And they'll comment at that time: they sit on job safety board, so they will give their.

H

Import at that point, if you end up going down.

H

Well, I'm just looking at these two: there is a difference in the pedestrian path, certainly.

C

This is more out of the way if you wanted to continue along, as I would have to come,.

C

Over here and up and around like that, whether it's a straight shot over there you're not.

C

Altering the pedestrian castle raised intersection.

B

But it's because you know you do have to wipe things out with it, because you can't keep.

C

The existing crosswalks here because then you'd be driving into it.

C

You have to make sure they're pulled back, so there's a room to maneuver around the circle.

C

So uh driving over the crosswalk. So if we could um maybe put this aspect of the project.

K

On just aside for a second and I'm not hearing a lot of other feedback for the other areas,.

K

It seems like we gotta, we have similar concepts of what we want to do from what you guys were.

K

Looking at the martin, where your property's right there on the corner of thornton are.

K

You, okay with that concept of teeing it up a little bit. Is there any feedback on that.

L

um If I could I I would like that. I like what I'm saying I I didn't think that was possible.

L

um This is my own yeah. uh A lot of traffic goes very close to the house, um since we have.

L

Gained some real estate here is it possible just to to take the curve out just ever so.

L

Slightly so that it's more of a 90 degree turn slowing traffic down and just pulling.

L

The traffic away from that that dwelling- I don't self-serving, sorry people but yeah. We.

L

Are not absolutely if you're, the only one here.

D

Just like just let me know before you go bulldozing it so I'll ask and we're going to pull those.

F

Flowers: okay: I just feel that it is kind of a a country, road kind of effect, of teaming up to get onto.

L

Woodbury, where it should just be a little bit less of a of a ramp onto woodbury and.

L

And more of a 90 degree turn. So if you follow my grip, so the key is teeing it up, meaning.

K

It is so you want, you want cars to come up, you have to move it's a sharp and green versus.

K

Smooth it's what you're looking for! Well, if I'm just saying, if you have all that extra.

L

Real estate, maybe you could be a little more.

H

Just shift this line two feet this way right and they already yeah they've got plenty of.

H

Room on the side so yeah, because it's a race, it would just end up being a tighter. This.

A

Radius here would just be end up being tighter in order to keep the uh parking a lot here.

A

So I might come out a little bit forward, come out a little bit further here and then so.

A

Just that radius would just get a little bit tighter yeah. You need a few feet over to do.

A

That yeah, so we can play with that a little bit. So martin gets a little bit more space.

K

Yeah, I'm just teasing, I'm sorry we're going to improve the roadway uh by adjusting for.

K

The neighborhood- that's right, um the section from gordon bartlett to denon didn't seem.

K

Is pretty straightforward? uh There we talked about potentially doing some living intermediate pump out or chokers scenario.

A

Where you'd have two bump belts.com.

K

A

Yeah, I don't know it's such a short piece and the traffic volumes or yeah I'm much lower.

C

On that end, especially now that the trucks are, in theory off of bartlett, that that strip.

F

Isn't getting really the traffic teresa hasn't been.

F

I

Yes, this this happens to be where my driveway is. This is the thing that changed when the.

I

Stop signs changed when there were only two stop signs on the thornton side of the bartlett.

I

And thornton intersection, nobody turned left, everybody went straight.

I

D

Right so so that's that's going to change. That's my only point if, if you're taking away.

I

The stop signs, whether there's a roundabout or there's a raised whatever, and particularly.

I

If the the bit of thornton between bartlett and woodbury gets narrowed, there's just going.

I

To be more traffic, I don't know what you do about it, but that's my two cents, yeah yeah.

D

I yeah, but I don't think so, yeah it's in better. You know splitting the burden between woodbury.

C

And bartlett, you know right now: blueberry gets most of the traffic through that block.

C

Whereas bartlett doesn't do much at all- and I I do I will say I don't go straight ever.

F

Because it's a much harder when you take that left on dinner, it is a much harder intersection.

F

Done it in woodbury than thornton and woodbury, it's just more games.

F

So people avoid, I feel, like people tend to not go straight as much because of the locals.

F

Because of the intersection, which is why pulling the stop signs, perhaps people will take the.

F

A

Yeah, I don't, I need going done it. No one is using a stop time. I don't know because I live.

A

Right there, no, I said my kitchen window faces that they just slow down. They don't stop.

D

It's just a continuous and it's and it's in order to get to woodbury in this direction.

A

It's two stop signs one here, one there right here, you come around, you have one stop sign.

A

Yep, so it's just one: it's an extra stop sign to go this way. Anyways.

G

Just at the sidewalks are substance, so it's all going to get improved yeah, so we're narrowing a little bit and because there's.

A

Some pretty substantial sized trees in this area, so we're actually pumping the street.

A

Or narrowing the street out by bumping the the sidewalk into the street in this area.

A

So the sidewalks will be uh the sidewalks will be here, and this sidewalk will go away.

A

So there'll be more green space in the back and the trees. It was really difficult to get.

A

A five and a half foot sidewalk on the back side with those trees. Do you know when the.

D

New development's going to take place there and work there.

E

So it's not going to happen at the same time.

K

There may be construction, that's happening elsewhere, so just I'm trying to make sure.

K

We move forward so this section we're going to narrow additional sidewalk at it to get.

K

All the way to get it so then, the next back to the section you had before.

A

um Okay, so that's starting to pine, so at the pine street park we were talking about the a choke down to 20 feet versus a.

K

Raised sidewalk, so those were two options.

K

These were the two options here: okay, uh race crosswalk. This is essentially a speed table.

A

At 32, foot wide or doing pump outs on either side down to 20 feet wide um and some extra.

A

Greenery space for some trees, the the drawback to this details is: they do create noise. You.

C

Know, vehicles going over them, they're, actually hauling trailers or something like that. We.

C

Put one in aldrich, the boss and the neighbors that the reason is actually what they want.

C

So one of the feedback we heard from you was that you'd like more trees- and this is an.

C

Option to put a couple trees in yeah, so that that to me- and you really create a pinch point.

K

You know coming into that sections are really visible, you know yeah and I'm thinking you.

C

Know the comment about not much parking, uh I mean. Maybe we could keep the edge lines.

C

The white lines, which gives it a narrowing effect as well, you know we could keep those.

C

If there's not enough partner going on to 10, otherwise it does seem like a wider street.

C

If you don't have the parked cars out there, the additional bump outs yeah with the lack.

A

Of work essentially yeah, potentially material.

L

So yeah and that's a part you go back in that section. What we're talking about from pine.

K

Street to thornton we're talking about doing one intermediate pinch points. um You know.

K

We don't believe that multiple bump outs are going to serve you. Well, I think it's going.

K

To frustrate you a lot, I think the residents, because you're not really getting any functional.

K

Parking when you have, especially in the winter time it's just going to be snow bands pushed.

K

Out so uh you know from a traffic common standpoint, something intermediate between it will provide.

K

You that function and also you'll still have some parking work. I'm not.

K

Sorry so we'll revisit the uh that intersection, we talked about adjusting and teeing it up.

K

A little bit better off of woodbury, that's um out there yep. um You wanted us to revisit.

K

The morning street crosswalk, um I'm not sure about the site distance, whether I'm thinking.

K

A member of the cross boxes just because you paint the road doesn't make it safe. No, no.

K

um So people across there anyway, I know they do, but it would look nicer.

D

Legal, whatever the terms are um I'll chip in with me, you know you do already in texas.

K

Thank you, yeah.

A

Teresa you there. I have one quick question. He moved down the street before I could get.

I

It out the um with the table at thornton and bartlett the um there's a bump out at the.

I

Corner there, which accommodates moving the sidewalks with a roundabout, would there be.

I

Enough bump out to do that, and what would that look like okay,.

A

I

So this uh in this section here.

I

I would be there if I could yeah sorry, I'm going to pointers okay. So obviously this section.

A

Here this, the the stream would get uh fighter in an outlier, but this side in particular.

A

um This light gray is the existing curve line, so the curve line would be a little bit further.

A

Out there wouldn't be yeah real bump outs, except on this corner. I believe it does actually.

A

Come bump out a little bit more right. No I'm asking about the sidewalk between.

I

Thornton and dennis yeah, he was saying that uh that the forgotten section uh perception.

I

Of dennett, where you showed the sidewalk moving out because of the trees yeah either way, it's.

H

Going to move over- yes, okay, either way this this line here, this curbline proposed curve.

A

Line is the is the curb line that uh that is right. I'm actually looking at the corner.

I

Of the where 340 thornton is where there's no across the street to the right.

I

uh Across road, oh! No! No! No! I'm sorry! You're right! I got myself turned around, so the bump.

I

Out for the roundabout would be sufficient to move the sidewalks as well. Yes, yes, okay,.

I

Okay, I see it now. Thank you.

K

So going back down to woodbury, we talked about that intersection um morning. We wanted to.

K

Try to see if we can get a crosswalk there and then we're adding the sidewalk along the.

B

Past uh precision, auto or yep and then we'll look at I'm not sure we're going to accommodate.

K

That island from richie's um something we'll look at, but I would suspect we're going to.

K

Get a lot of pushback from business just because, yes, they don't contracts, you that way. All.

K

The time but occasionally they will have delivery trucks that go up into your neighborhood.

K

And they're going to want to be able to swim, so look at it see if we can accommodate it.

K

But uh expected might be a challenge: the space, that's um in the travel lane. You know there.

G

Were two travel lands going uh down part of the street yeah, and it's around about that.

G

First case you provide um and and now there's only right turn lane and is there can we what.

G

Could things go into that land like into the white boy yeah like.

G

Yeah we could look at something through there. I mean aaron. You know right now. It's it's.

K

I mean something will be taken up with the sidewalk that we're showing here and we'll.

C

Get pushed beaten up, but some beautification welcome to the neighborhood. You know and we're.

D

Getting a light to seven right, a street light. Yes, please yeah. We put in a request to ever.

C

Source or a street light on this pole right here so do we have to go us bank now, yeah.

C

The work order is in it's just a matter of eversource uh thing: okay, we'll do it and we'll.

C

Give them the street light and build and swallow for us yep. Oh that's awesome. I actually was.

C

Out there one day and the guy from david source was there, and he said oh yeah, we could probably.

C

Do that- and it will also I'm sorry but that's a serving, can we put lights around the stop.

D

Sign that's on the right on the precision auto side, because you have blinking light.

D

On the other stuff side, but not on that yeah.

C

They put it on that one, but now that the lane is over on that side, it makes more sense.

F

Thank you. Communication as you know, enter, and then we talked about that way back here.

F

Australia walker was like yeah we'll do like beautification flower pots or some something.

F

In the middle of the road, maybe if it's feasible, with the trucks still being able to make that left, turn yeah, that's the problem right now, but yeah yeah. It depends on what, if anything,.

C

Ever happens to this and you need access in and out of the pawn shop, driveway, yeah and.

B

There's a lot of transition going on, especially whether the development gets done by richie.

K

I I think getting the sidewalk in there is going to be a huge benefit from straightening.

D

Out the um scooter places making that it's a huge open, big area, yeah.

A

Everybody's aware that gigantic tree right there really over it like it's, not a healthy.

D

Tree, I don't know.

B

The roots to start you know, so don't don't do a concrete.

A

But I'm just showing you with the lines currently are drawn. It's right in that tree. I don't.

A

Know if there's room to kind of nudge things, I wanted everybody to be aware of it. So why.

A

Don't we have our squad take a look at the trees, you know as if it's, if it's a declining tree already, um it may be a pretty thing to do.

H

I know it's a boring subject but utilities. Oh you want to talk about this stuff. Yeah.

H

So what you're seeing is the above ground stuff, the real the real challenge themselves.

H

That's that's the hardest actual engineer, so we know for a fact about this [laughter].

H

So uh the water main west of woodbury avenue needs to be replaced. Okay, so that's impact.

H

Number one: so that's from that intersection to the dentistry. It's from what we call original.

H

Equipment cast iron, it's it's of a certain age and it is time for it to retire. um We.

H

Also know that the sanitary sewer line um throughout most of the most of the bar on.

H

The streets are replaced, it's quite. uh It's leaking quite a bit of an infiltration. There's.

H

Certain areas that we can't we have a little, you know a camera bot and then we go to the.

H

Sewer line and it looks for problems with roots, and it looks for infiltration because.

H

All that goes to the super tournament.

H

So the bot can't make it through some of the sections of pipe, which was a place of got.

H

Enough shape now the storm drains, a lot of the storm drains were actually added in the.

H

Early 80s, the original broadway street project, so they put in uh rcp storm greens to conquer.

H

Them things uh at the time, so we need to extend those because I don't want ihop to be able.

H

To get to the intersection of thornton street that we all know when you drink so.

H

um We need to work on storm drainage and what we have to do, but that's um in a big picture.

H

Of what we have so we have water main work above woodbury avenue. We have sewer lines.

H

All over the place, and then we have to take the storm drainage system that was installed.

H

In the 80s uh to whatever the current lights, so that's that's all the stuff that has to.

F

Happen underground and will you have like a contractor.

D

Memorialize, like our waterline, that goes into the house, the house, [music] some contractors.

H

Will do that some contractors require um they're generally, not seems best interest, but we generally.

H

Don't get involved, but we sign our best interests for them to be working on their house.

H

So sometimes certain contractors have a code crews that they can do that inside of work.

H

So we can't guarantee those stuff. That's why I'm not going to guarantee you that you can.

H

Get your private work done at the same time when I can guarantee and that we do it all.

H

The time that we work with plumbers, we need to bring in somebody to do your own work, we'll.

H

Work with you or need everything so that everything gets as cheaply as possible done and that.

H

When it's no additional hassle, just because we're under construction that you have to.

H

Go through all this stuff, just because you want to do the right thing, so we generally.

H

Speaking, we try to coordinate everything, we're very good working polymers electricians, all.

H

The other things that happen when you do one of these jobs you get in the you get into.

H

Stuff- and it's just like you know, you know, there's something you need to do this. My house.

H

Exists: yep! Well, you know get your people over here. I'll talk to them, we'll coordinate with.

H

Them our contractor and, generally speaking, were very successful because I'm pretty sure.

F

Yeah mine's definitely I mean several of the homeowners we've spoken about not so much.

F

Tapping in using your same contractor, my concern was: the sidewalks are brand new right so before.

F

The sidewalks are completed. It would seem to make sense that we don't cut into this.

F

Right away right, here's here's! What we do we do is what we do: yeah, okay. So when we replace.

H

Utilities, generally speaking, it's always yeah. Okay, so we're going to go we're going to do.

H

The section that's under the sidewalk okay for you, okay, because we don't want you digging.

H

Up, okay, okay! So whether we do it before or after or it doesn't really so, the most important.

H

Thing not everybody's here but take this home, is that if you have a galvanized steel, 101.

H

I don't go into your house, you should seriously think about everything I do because those.

H

Are all of the vintage that they're all about the burst? Yeah.

H

So the time to do it is before it bursts, it's cheaper when it's on emergency. Okay. So if.

H

You have a topic. I was generally speaking, you're good, no when they, when they came out.

D

Came into our houses to look at the meter and stuff like that, she was just like.

F

She did not like she's falling anyway, so [laughter].

H

If you have a clay sewer line, that leaves your house and you can't tell because it's.

H

Cast iron, but if you're a clay line, there are services all over the place and usually.

H

The services that do the root removal for people they have little cameras, they will.

H

Look down and play and they will be able to tell you if you're sure, alive and that's the.

H

Type of information that you should be having as homeowners from now until sometime in the.

H

Spring, so that you as a homeowner, can budget in case you want to do something that makes.

K

Sense so the thing to remember is we will have a full restart the construction. We will.

K

Have a pre-construction meeting which we'll talk to you all again about it? The contractor.

K

Of the design, when marksman design will be like identifying areas, so this is not your.

K

Only time to get you know say the one of our lives. It's not the last time, you'll be able.

K

To have this conversation know that it's going to come up again and we'll bring it up again.

K

um So and we'll probably most most likely will request to get into basements to uh to.

A

Check locations and also, if you have sump pumps, that tie into the sewer right now.

K

Be aware that that's illegal and they need to be pulled out of the sewer, so you know.

K

We'll work we'll be ready to get that done, but it's really really obligated to do that.

K

uh On janet, I know when you guys have done it. There was a lot of unexpected issues on.

G

Whatever, like do, should we probably expect that that's happened.

G

The best case scenario is going to last like two three years or um instruction yeah, no.

K

It's a construction, it'll likely be you'll, get utilities in and then probably spring.

K

Restoration roadway so.

H

Okay, so that's a year of travel column. Yes, yes,.

B

So we'll put together a kind of finalized version and then we'll get that posted on.

K

The website, so you guys have a chance to see it and then what we'll do is we'll bring it.

K

To partner practical safety, we'll make sure you know you guys are aware of that, but if.

K

You wanted to once your finalizing a lot of them on the web. You can show it to your neighbors.

B

And you know try to make sure you know everybody understands the direction we're going in that.

D

Would be a big help? Yes,.

K

I'm sorry have you talked to the businesses to adjust to the to that are get sorry precision.

F

Model and these guys, these guys lower um businesses and and does the sidewalk there's a sidewalk.

D

It doesn't deal or do you have to take. We have to take your lips.

L

All right, thank you. Thank you very much.

L

That's great and if you haven't signed the sanity, please do.

D