City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Technical Advisory Committee, 7 Feb 2023

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2.7.2023 Technical Advisory Committee

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February, 7th 2023 site plan review technical advisory committee meeting to order.

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First, item of business is approval of the minutes from the january 3rd meeting.

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If you have any comments or changes or a motion.

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Move to approve second motion, a second all in favor minutes have been approved.

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um First item under oh business, 375 banfield, they are postponing again.

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Hopefully, we'll hear well, I'm not going to make any assumptions about when that will be back, but.

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um Please don't so that brings us to item b and c I'll, read them both into the record item b, the.

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Request of frederick j, bailey iii and joyce nelson owners and tuck realty corporation applicant.

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For properties located at 212, 214 and 216 woodberry avenue requesting preliminary.

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And final subdivision approval for a lot line. Relocation to create the following lots proposed.

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Lot one to be sixty thousand twenty five square feet lot area where 26 000 12 square feet are.

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Existing proposed lot, two to be 12 477 square feet of lot area where 29 571 square feet are existing.

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And proposed lot three to be 7917 square feet of lot area were 24 836 square feet are existing.

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No changes in street frontage are proposed, said properties are located on assessor map, 175 lots.

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One two and three and lie within the general residence. A district item c is the request of.

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Frederick j, bailey iii and joyce nelson owners and tuck realty corporation owner and applicant.

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For properties located at 212, woodbury avenue requesting site plan approval.

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For the construction of an eight unit, condominium development consisting of four single living unit.

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Structures two two unit structures, 18 parking spaces where 13 are required; an associated.

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Stormwater, utility and site improvements with access to the to the development from boyd street.

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So properties are located on assessment, 175 lot 1 and lies within the general residence. A district.

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Hello welcome. Thank you peter uh joe coronadi jones beach engineers representing the applicant.

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Tuck realty, um I think, since the last meeting we've we've received a sign off on the stormwater.

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Design from altus, uh we received the staff comments uh yesterday and I don't think we.

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Have any real questions on those there may have been a question for us on. I think there were two.

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Items one was um finalizing the layout of the of the water slash fire services to the units.

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um The second one was the clay core berm detail that we added, um and that was added to sheet d4.

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um And it was something that we were going back and forth with with altus um as the reviewer and.

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And then the final item was something new that we have to file a conditional use permit for.

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The highway noise um overlay district, which we will we will do prior to- I guess, if the sport.

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Overlay district, which we will we will do prior to. I guess if this board moves us forward, we'll.

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Do that prior to have to do it prior to going to the planning board and all those are fine with us.

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Okay, thanks joe any questions or comments from anyone on tech.

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Hearing no comments so ask anyone from the public wish to speak on this application or on zoom.

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If anyone on the zoom call would like to make a comment, please raise your hand.

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Seeing none we'll close the public portion any further discussion from tac or.

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Motion of any sort, I'm like a motion to send this on to the planning board with.

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The stipulation that the dbw review the final review and approve the final water.

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Service locations going into the building buildings. Second, any further discussion.

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All right, um all in favor, any opposed heart motion carries.

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Thank you very much, and then I assume we'll we're not set to a date. Obviously, at this point, we'll.

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Have to apply the cuc and then find figure out a date submit the full application yep.

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And and then you'll get the date if you meet all right. That sounds great. Thank you. Thanks.

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Okay item I'll read the next two I'll read it together. Also item d and e.

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um Item d is the request of peace development authority owner for property located at 80.

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Rochester avenue site plan approval for the construction of a 209, 750 square foot.

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Advanced manufacturing building, including 18 145 square feet of office space, two parking.

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Areas: two loading dock areas, minor realignment of a portion of rochester avenue and associated site.

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Improvements consisting of underground utilities, landscaping lighting any stormwater management.

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System said, property is shown on assessor map, 308 lot 1 and lies within the peas industrial district.

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And item e is the request of the peace development authority owner for property located at 80.

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Rochester ave requesting a lot line adjustment to add 22 251 square feet to the existing lot.

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As part of a realignment of rochester avenue for proposed lot size of 496 584 square feet,.

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Said property is shown on assessor map, 308 lot 1 and lies within the peas industrial district.

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Is that still correct now what I just read the realignment? I know right. That was from last time.

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So that's yeah the subdivision. We are still moving forward with right. It's to define the.

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Lease area, so let's not take e into consideration, we'll just uh stick with d for now that for the.

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um That will be part of the the package that needs to move forward right. Okay,.

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um All right, thank you, uh so neil hansen uh project manager with time bonds, uh patrick.

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Kermans from time bond is also here, as well as uh mike mates from the peace development authority.

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um So, since the last time we were here, we we received the third party reviews for traffic.

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And for storm water, um we are still working through a response to the the traffic.

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Peer review comments uh and we uh turned over the the stormwater peer review earlier today.

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um Back to the city into uh to underwood, um we also received the staff comments last night, um so.

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I just like to run through those, um so the first comment was related to the third party traffic.

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Review not addressing the concerns uh previously raised about the crosswalks in new hampshire have.

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And it says, based on the projected traffic volumes and width of crossings, additional.

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Safety measures could be warranted if speeds are in excess of 35 miles per hour. Crosswalks are not.

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Usually warranted, if less than 20 pedestrians per hour, so the we ran this by our traffic.

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Group and their preliminary response they that they provided us, is that our data shows the 85th.

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Percentile speeds between 37 and 40 miles an hour and the average daily traffic volumes of up to 5.

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000 vehicles, I said, based on federal, highway administration guidelines, enhanced crosswalk.

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And warning signs should be provided to put an rfp would not be required and we don't currently.

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Anticipate pedestrian volumes over 20 miles per hour or over 20 per hour. So we can detail that.

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And as part of our traffic peer review- and um you can review it further- I guess at that point.

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Two is to consider a hydrodemic separator prior to stormwater entering the detention.

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Chambers so we have utilized offline, deep sum: catch basins with oil, water separator.

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Hoods for pre-treatment, which is an approved pre-treatment method for nhdes the size of a.

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Hydrodynamic separator pre-detension would be incredibly large, given the the size of the site.

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Provide estimated average daily and peak water usage so, as this project currently does not have.

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A an identified, end user. We could per provide an estimate uh based on an assumed use, but that.

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Would likely need to be updated as a user was identified and we went into a more detailed.

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Design of the the building itself, so that's something you'd like us to provide. We can.

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um Connect sewer service into or do not connect super service into existing structure. 2041 install.

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A new structure upstream from the existing proposed connection, we can make that revision.

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um The sewer main in rochester between and including manhole's 2041 and sewer manhole.

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21-14 is in poor condition; it needs to be replaced. Applicant will need to work with.

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Public works to replace the section and the two manholes, so that is fit for use, so we can get that.

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Onto the next submission set um and add a note about coordinating that with that work with dpw.

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Identify waste stream characteristics, types of waste discharge and concentrations so again is.

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There's not a defined end user, yet we wouldn't be able to provide that information at this time.

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um But that that could be reviewed further once once a user has been identified for the site.

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uh This is a large manufacturing facility, any potential food prep area for employees.

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Will require a grease trap so again as part of this current plan, we're not anticipating any.

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Food service on this site, um but again as as the the build outs develops and if that need.

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Arises we're aware that a grease trap would need to be put in place um that would likely.

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Be identified prior to construction, though so we'd be able to work through that. At that point,.

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um Verify this development adheres to all storm water requirements. It stayed in the site plan.

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Review regulations- chapter 7., so this site falls under the pda regs so that the chapter.

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7 regs uh wouldn't apply. However, this project uh does require an alteration of terrain. Permit.

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Which follows the uh the requirements under that 150703 of the state, stormwater regulations and.

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We did submit the alteration and train permit. I believe it was on monday yesterday or friday.

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As that has gone into the state, uh please label lee street and aviation have on plans, so we can.

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Do that uh to install electric conduit pads equipment within five feet of existing sewer.

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Main or drainage pipes we can make that revision as well label new fields in stratham street on.

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Plan set both they're shown to be milled with overlay, neither are in the condition.

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That the solution would be acceptable both need reconstruction via reclamation, fortification.

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With two inch angular crushed stone a new pavement, we can make that revision as well.

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As a telephone manhole in the tip down of the north driveway raised a grade, add telephone lines.

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To the plan to be starting to avoid conflicts, so we can add we'll add the telephone lines to the.

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Plan- and uh we have utility note 14 is currently on the plans that states uh contractor to adjust.

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All manholes catch basins, curb boxes, etc. Within limits of work to finish grade.

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Truncated dome plates are not to be used in the sidewalk system crosses driveways. We can remove.

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Those at the driveway crossings eliminate old drainage structures, catch basins and.

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Add drain manholes on the main pipe at all pipe junctions during rochester street narrowing. We.

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Can make that revision? I think there was another comment on here about a couple: catch basins that.

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Were missing uh existing catch basins near lee street, so we can get those on the plan as well.

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Raise all structures encountered to finish grade similar to the previous comment about utility note.

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14., uh all concrete curb is to be replaced uh with vertical granite. We can make that revision.

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Sidewalks on site do not need to meet the five and a half foot wide standard unless desired.

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um I think we'll, I think, we're probably just going to keep them that way for consistency, but.

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um It's good to know for the future. uh The four post indicator valve posts along rochester street.

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Are remnants of old water services that are likely still active and need to be terminated at the main.

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By contractor we'll add a note and call that out on the demo plan as well. For that to be.

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Coordinated with uh dpw, it looks like a guy. Pull across from lee street is on top of a sewer line.

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Pole may need relocation to affect sewer repairs, so we'll call that on the plans we did review that.

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It looks like it's it. The poll itself is very close to the existing drain line, but there's.

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Also, a guy wire off that pole that may go on top of the sewer. So we'll get a note on there for the.

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Contractor to verify that and make the appropriate provisions during construction for that.

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Relocate the proposed sidewalk on newfield street, so the utility poles on the sidewalk.

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Will make that revision there's a tree across from lee street? That's supposed to remain, but.

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Is not account for in the grading, so the tree is planned to be removed. The two remain tag was.

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Referencing, the utility pole- that's adjacent to that tree, so we've relocated that note.

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To avoid the confusion and specifically called out the trees to be removed, the tree is right.

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On top of the sewer main in that section, that was called out to be replaced earlier.

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uh Replace all curb inlet, tombstone style, catch basin, grates to type b, we'll do that.

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And then the last one was related to underwood's comment: the peer review for stormwater about the.

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Future parking um and that impervious surface was included in our storm water calculations.

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And we referenced that in the the response to peer review, so we've accounted for that.

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um So those are all the comments we've received prior to this meeting, um we'll be.

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Happy to take any more or answer any questions thanks. You know any questions or comments.

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um You mentioned you were gonna, have to go back to the zoning board. Is that correct? Yes for the uh this, so we received a variance for the front lot line, setback and.

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um Because of the the change with the approach on the subdivision, we need one for the rear.

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Lot line now, so I believe, we're on the agenda for this month. Okay, uh to get that all right is that.

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A question um you had said the hydro hydrodynamic separator was too big to fit. Is that what this no.

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So we're getting pre-treatment with off offline catch basins and uh deep sumps with hoods.

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um Which is a standard pre-treatment practice uh hydra? We didn't actually look at it because.

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um We have the offline catch basins, so we don't, it doesn't perform any different than that.

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um I'm just uh side of this size with the pre-detension flow rate would be extraordinarily.

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High in the size of that hydrodamic separator unit would likely be extremely large. Okay,.

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So, wouldn't you put it right after it leaves the drainage pipe sleeve the parking lots.

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Because that's really what you, what you need it for the comments, so you do it upstream of where.

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The roofs tie in we're done upstream that so that you're only cleaning the area, that's on the ground.

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Yeah, that would be a strategy, but again we we are getting our pre-treatment through.

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Offline catch basins, so there's it's not. It wouldn't serve any additional purpose.

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Any other comments before we open public comment.

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All right is there anyone from the public who'd like to speak on this application.

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uh Okay mark go ahead.

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Good afternoon um for the town of greenland, here representing the board of selectments and the.

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Planning board [music] um into the continuation uh of the concern that the town agreement has.

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Relative to the development of peace, uh we were before the planning board doing the lonza.

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Application expressing our concern about the added traffic strain to route 33.. We have one of the.

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Intersections 133, that's currently at failure, so significant backups in the morning and am periods.

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We express those concerns to the playing board for a larger project than we hear today again.

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Expressing our concerns, it's been over 2 million square feet of space out of the piece with no.

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Off-Site mitigation to offset these impacts, the traffic study done by time on, we believe continue.

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To use clause analysis that our engineering has highlighted a couple years ago in front.

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Of the planning board, which we face, downplayed the impact to route 33 and that continues, I heard from.

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The discussion that there's been a peer review of the traffic study. I didn't see that in the.

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Documents that that's available we'd like to see that. But our concern with the continued relative.

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Piece is that boot 33 is being ignored. We have an estimate through finesse to fix that intersection.

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Ranges from 3.3 to 5 million dollars because of the bridge we have made.

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Efforts to get on the 10-year highway plan and we are way back in the line with that.

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um We'd like to see some consideration to address the traffic concerns in greenland and would.

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Appreciate the ability to have those discussions with appropriate people involved with this project.

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Thank you. Thank you mark any other public comments.

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I'll see, none will close that portion of the hearing today.

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Any other comments or motion yeah, so over the third party traffic view, do.

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You plan to respond to those comments and yes, yes,.

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Because they did point out a lot of intersections that are failing or have have significant impacts.

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From this traffic yeah we'll be providing comment, our responses to solve of those comments.

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And we still, we just got the storm water third party right so.

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Yeah we just submitted our responses to that earlier today.

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I don't have any other comments than anybody else. Should we we're gonna have to wait for that.

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Postpone it till we get the results here, we'll go through your response and then get the results.

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On the peer review, all right, all in favor motion carries postpone continue to the next one. Thanks.

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All right, moving along to new business item, a is the request of lucky 13 properties, llc owner for.

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Property located at 147 congress street requesting site plan review approval for a 700 square foot.

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Edition front and rear, canopies and associated off-site and on-site improvements said property.

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Is shown on assessor map 126 lot 4 and lies within the character district, 5 and historic district.

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Good afternoon good afternoon, eric weinrib with altus engineering, I.

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Have for a small project, quite a few people with me. I am the owner of lake.

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Labrie architect, sarah howard and from oj a building company. I have lewis hamilton.

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Right there he moved on me, andrew wilson, uh very simple project. I had a small 700.

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Square foot edition onto 147 congress, it's the area in sort of in orange, on.

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The infill along the sidewalk of maplewood avenue, I'm in addition to being here and.

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Going through tac and planning board, the application has already been through the.

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Hdc and for the building expansion, as well as improvements to the facade and new canopies.

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We're in the downtown overlay district and character, district, five.

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Project does not require any new utility service upgrades last fall before the application came.

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In when they were started, doing interior renovations, uh new domestic fire, domestic.

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Water and fire service protection services were upgraded, there's a separate sewer and I'm.

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Drainage for roof drain connection to the build from the building. uh Very so, as I said, very simple,.

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Project I'm andrew is in the process of ensuring that um there's no cross connection with the sewer.

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And and drainage at this point he's having those line scope just to confirm and I'm I will I'll.

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Be the messenger on the grease trap we do have lewis here who has been in contact with the city.

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Plumbing inspector kevin gagnon's confirmed that we are providing an interior grease trap.

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um And for space issues and um capacity it doesn't require the or space issues it doesn't meet. The we.

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Don't have space for a thousand gallon we're providing a 750 on in the basement and that.

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Is appropriate based on flow and volume, and I think that um if you have additional questions.

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When I get done, lewis can talk further about this and then lastly, the only other comment that came.

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Up was uh access into the building from the rear parking lot and I'll. Let sarah jump in.

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Hi, um so the rear building page north in the yellow there is an existing ramp and.

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Platform that accesses two doors which go into the upper and lower egress stairs. That's that's.

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How you get in the the rear, stair there's two one: the door to page left access is only the.

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Basement and the door to page right accesses the main and upper floors only they do not cost.

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Okay, thank you. um Any questions from tech members.

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But the space between the doors seems very small, is it is that an interior door on an.

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Exterior door, no, they are both exterior doors, there's a space that is about 1.

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Month, so it is very tight, yeah right there on the back, it's a solid, it's a spandrel panel. It's.

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A solid panel, no, I don't mean that this I mean it looks like you have a door once you open the door.

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There's another door right in front of you looking at the plan that that's what that appeared to be.

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Maybe I'm just not reading the playing cards pull the plan up on the screen, yeah.

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Oh, I see sorry, it's just a it's a graphical error. They both swing out and the hatch was.

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Not updated so there's no, no, no, okay, yeah! That would be weird. That would be super weird, because.

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They're also swinging the opposite directions and confusing yeah. I was confused foreign.

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Anyone from the public like to make any comments on this application.

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No one, and no one on zoom will close the public comment portion.

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Back to tag for discussion or motion.

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So what were your comments on the grease trap? Louis, do you.

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Want to jump in if you could yeah, you need to go over and be on microphone.

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The grease trap hasn't actually been sorry. Can you just state your name? My name is lewis hamill.

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From oj building company thanks, the grease trap will be sized appropriately based on the flow.

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And um and the volume from the first two bays of the pot sink and the sprayer for the dishwasher.

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um That is being provided to us by the tenant and as far as eric.

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Can answer questions with regard to space outside, but there's no.

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Space on the property in which to put a thousand gallon on a ground pre-strap.

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I believe that kevin our plumbing mechanical inspector has been working with you, lewis. I.

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Called him this morning, yes, okay and um and you you know if william uh vernon, vernon yeah.

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Has he been involved in that conversation as well? Not yet, but but kevin did bring.

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That up this morning, that would be best to work with him based on usage flow and.

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Volume and location right, so I think, between kevin and william. You will make sure that.

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Degree strap is in a suitable location and sized appropriate sized appropriately right, yeah, okay,.

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Are we yeah? Is it moving forward I'll write it down? If you guys want to keep discussing.

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um All right, I guess, uh make a motion to move this forward with that as a condition.

K

It's like second condition would be uh tvw review. The.

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Observations for the uh make sure the storm, water and.

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Sanitary sewer are currently separated properly, and they need to be obviously as a final.

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The situation and, uh finally, that the in excavation excavation permit.

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And permission from the dbw be pulled for replacement of the sidewalk and that.

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Will include replacing the sidewalk in front of jimmy's, which is still asphalt. We now okay, good.

N

Thank you there's any licenses, probably that's probably out of my purview but.

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This will go to planning board and then licensing will occur at that time because it probably will.

M

Be closing down that area of the street for a while, I would imagine it's definitely the sidewalk.

D

Yeah sidewalk obstruction yeah on the sidewalk yep right. uh The footings are going to be under.

C

The right away, or if they're they're, not they're, they're, intended to stay on the property. Okay,.

D

Thank you and you're not changing that tree in the front. That's existing. It is an existing tree.

D

And we're intending to leave the tree planter there. Yes, good.

A

All right we have, we have a motion and a second with three conditions.

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Are there any other conditions? [music] Does anyone need to hear the conditions? No, no.

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I'm married um all in favor, aye aye. Any opposed motion carries.

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So we can be on march right if you get your packet in on time. Okay, try! Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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Yeah all right item b under new business, the request of lucky 13 properties, llc owner.

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For property located at 361 islington street requesting site plan review approval for the.

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Redevelopment of the existing property, including a 695 square foot edition and a 73 square foot.

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Edition with associated site improvements, including lighting utilities, landscaping and.

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Storm water treatment management and a conditional use impairment approval in accordance with section.

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10.112.14 the zoning ordinance to allow 12 parking spaces where 22 are required said property is.

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Shown on assessor map, 144 lot 23. and lies within the character district, 4l2 and historic districts.

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Again, all right, eric weinberg with altus engineering.

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And also with me is jeff dyer, the applicant and michael brady, the owner. We have derek.

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Durbin in the back who's, the project attorney and robert whitmire who's, the project architect.

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I I think we all know this tax map 144 lot, 23, the former getty station at 361 islington street.

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We've been before the city for several approvals on that uh site: uh rap check, auto.

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Detailing um as well as some other stuff that just never went forward or or wasn't very successful,.

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So we're here now to convert the former gas station to a bagel shop.

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um We believe that the project will improve the vitality to the site, to.

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The neighbor neighborhood and it will feel eliminate the abandonment feel to that corner.

H

We do see that it's a challenging site because we're trying to balance on preservation and meet.

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The zoning and site plan review objectives, and with this we've been to the htc, and we.

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Get approval from the htc we've gotten zoning relief on for several items on the property just.

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Because of the on the character, character, district, trying to preserve the building- and uh you know.

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The where the building is located on the lot and not utilizing all the the frontage of the parcel.

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And if we were to meet all the zoning criteria, I think that one is we would have to remove the.

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Building but also, I think it would change the character of the character of the.

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Neighborhood and it would I'm not allow us to even come close to meeting parking requirements on this.

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Property just because I don't think that zoning works for this corner lot for this type of use,.

H

So when we started looking at the site design, I'm we have an easement on for.

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The abiding property on the west, so we had to maintain that egress into the site. We.

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Wanted to make sure that we were making the site as safe as possible, so we eliminated.

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The access which had already been closed off on into the gas station closest to cabot street from.

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Islington and then we moved the parking the access it's far back onto the lot as possible,.

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To create more separation between islington street and the entrance on on cap foreign.

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We went out and looked at the existing 48 inch oak, that's in the rear of the site and.

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Met with chris campana arborist and we determined that that tree is, is healthy.

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And I think it would it very much worth saving and that's drove a lot of our site design, which.

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Made it a narrower sight getting around the building in the addition area, I'm creating.

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That one-way access, which, which is what we wanted anyway, but making it a tighter site.

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Levine eliminated a lot of pavement on the site: we've greened. It we've done a lot of landscape.

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Improvements and traffic flow improvements with and added a formalized parking lot. We've added on.

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Catch basins and storm water management devices to treat the runoff with pre-treatment with.

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With deep sump catch basin and improve the fact that we're reducing runoff, but also on.

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Right now, the water, it the site's pretty flat in front and then it steepens in the rear. But.

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There is no treatment and it kind of sheds off onto everyone's property untreated. So now we're.

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Collecting it pre-treating it and putting it into the closed drainage system on cabot street.

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Adding a new grease trap and sewer service, new domestic and fire protection services, new gas.

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Natural gas service from islington street and new underground electric from islington street as well.

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I guess I'll jump into the on the comments that were provided uh last night.

H

I so, as far as section seven of the site plan review regulations on we are incorporating low.

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Impact design development planning minimizing to the extent possible to reduce runoff volume.

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Maintain pre-development hydrology and protect water quality in receiving areas we're reducing.

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Impervia we're adding green space, we're adding pre-treatment on rain gardens and.

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Underground storage and infiltration devices are not practical on a former service station property.

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We're not in a well-head protection we're not near wetlands, we're not near the flood hazard zone.

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We've provided a storm water management and roads control plan, we're reducing peak rate and volume.

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Of runoff and we're not disturbing more than 15 000 square feet, so the p-tap requirements on are.

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Not required, so I believe that we are meeting the the goals and requirements of section seven.

H

Item two uh refers to uh separate lines for fire protection and domestic water.

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Our plans indicate that there are two services there. We just drew.

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For ease of drawing a single service, you can see that on the utilities plan.

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So right in the middle of the parking lot, it says two services but we're just showing a single line. There.

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Item three is a comment regarding a crushed stone service surface rather than a stone dust surface.

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On the landscape plan for the access ways into the site, and we had a distal plow issue with crushed.

H

Stone and it does walk as well we're fine with whatever that this committee recommends. We can.

P

Ask you a question on that because I wasn't in the office last week to participate in the comments.

P

But that stuck out to me like uh not a sore thumb, but it seemed really odd to me that you've got all.

P

These concrete sidewalks, as I at least read them on the plans and most of the connections to the.

P

Concrete sidewalks and right away are these crushed stone, connectors and it doesn't make.

P

Any sense to me why you do that versus carry the concrete out to the concrete sidewalk. So I don't.

P

Know if there's a drainage reason, you did that and what terence was thinking. It was more of an.

P

Aesthetic an aesthetic it was, I think it's more difficult, terence yeah, so I I you know personally.

P

Personally, I'd love to see you, you know, use the textured surface in there, but that that's a much.

P

More expensive proposition than the concrete and use the concrete be interesting. If you dyed the.

P

Concrete to make it a little more interesting on your own property, not on ours. But if you didn't.

P

Even do that continue the gray. I also thought the two crushed stone connectors on the parking lot.

P

They encourage people to park here and use and visit neighbors go to other properties. I I just.

P

Wonder who's using or it's encouraging, even if it's only your customers that park there.

P

Pedestrians in the neighborhood to cut through your parking lot to get to the front door instead.

P

Of going along the sidewalk- and I think that's exactly what he was thinking was that people will.

H

Take the shortest path, so, instead of them going through the landscaping, give them a place to go.

P

So I think anybody on cabot street is going to cut in anywhere. They want, I'm not sure. That's.

P

Going to work- and I again I if I was the operator versus somebody trying to perceive how people are.

P

Going to use it and desire lines, I would have my landscaping fill in those gaps and and direct.

P

People more explicitly to your two entrances off of islington street, if they're on cabinet.

P

They're coming through the parking lot, but I don't know that they're always going to go to one spot.

P

uh Just because it's it's amongst the ground cover, I mean I I see your point. I I also could see.

H

Someone walking down islington and coming to the site and going through the landscape area and then.

H

Cutting that first corner straight into the site- and I don't disagree, but I don't know that we want.

P

To encourage people to walk through a parking lot to get to the front door, you know if they.

P

Got a stroller or whatever else, it's inviting that to happen. We can remove uh anyway, and we.

H

Can make it hardscape? That's all just perfect uh hardscapes! No, uh no! The the two connectors yeah.

P

I mean I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you what I'm observing but [laughter].

P

Can I add a few more things on the landscape planner? Do you want me to wait till he's done.

P

You go ahead. Will you go ahead, yeah sure yeah, uh just while we're there all right, I'm not a big fan.

P

Of the crushed stone, nosing you've got, I get that there's, terence, is probably thinking things are.

P

Going to have a tough time growing at the ends of some of those sections uh personally, rather.

P

Than see something with crushed stone again, I'm I'm taking the eyes of an operator here.

P

um And the curb appeal of my business I'd put ground cover in there. I'd put ivy or something.

P

In there just to green it up, even though you know, and you can beat upon a lot of plants.

P

Like that with salt and snow, but you won't just have stones rolling out into your into.

P

Your parking area in your driveway over where you're, connecting to the neighbor on the left.

P

With your easement area, the the nose by the tree.

P

Those are the and I wondered what you're doing behind your retaining wall down to the butter.

P

Is that is that what is it? And if it's just great lawn or something we're just going to lowman seed.

H

It yeah, so I would just note that uh maybe it is and I missed it, it's a there's. I believe, there's a.

Q

Asphalt from their site, it's almost asphalt all the way up and and that's actually a discussion.

H

Point further out: yeah, I'm not! I just thought I'd ask um obviously the brick who's doing the.

P

Improvements on islington, are we doing them or are you doing them you're, showing them the tree tree.

P

Boxes and then the same project so we're doing it. Yes, yeah! So I'm just trying to make sure that.

H

Your kids understood that we were aware of what's going on, and so I'm good with that for what it's.

P

Worth drafting-wise, I I'd bring your curb to where it's going to go and it looks like there's some.

P

Conflicting information at the curb cut coming in as to what we're proposing and what you're.

P

Proposing so whatever it is, there's a lot of lines. Something we need is the cad file when they get.

C

An approval so that we can import it and we'll build it to meet their plan, not a problem. Fine.

P

um We're near what what it is, we're narrowing up the driveway yeah so which is good. So the curb is.

P

Going to actually go out to your line right, yes, yeah, um okay, what take care of them? What we do.

P

um All right, you know otherwise, for what it's worth for me. I think it's a great project.

P

Unlike the approach you took adaptive reuse, I think you've done a really good job doing that.

P

Even though my preference would be to get rid of the whole thing and start over, that's not.

P

What you're doing and it's not what you got approved, so I think it's a great great reuse.

P

Of an eyesore and a blighted building on islington street, so I applaud you for that and I just want.

P

To thank you for uh you, eric for the first time and and your client also for the first time.

P

Recognizing that the importance of that 48 inch tree and how great it is, you've narrowed down the.

P

The traffic aisle that one way I appreciate comments from the public on that as well, because I.

P

Think we all missed that repeatedly when you came in with the other proposals and that that tree.

P

Will probably handily survive all this work, given its age and health, considering it paved right up.

H

To it right correct, so thanks for that, I'm done you want to keep going on. Can I yeah go ahead.

H

uh The we can make a change on the uh the plan to make sure that it's uncertainty time and we can.

H

Also add plant notes, sort of plans indicating that the water service will be cut at the street. That.

H

Was our intent? It is added as a note, um and we can also work with jamie to get the as built locations.

H

For those water services and the existing sewer service- and hopefully we can utilize those.

H

I will make sure that terence revises details and notes to ensure that the cage and burlap are.

H

Removed from the treatment, packings and number eight is on trying to wrap my head a little bit.

H

Around the request to change from 14 foot pole down to 12 on, I just want somebody to sign off.

C

Poles are gonna, be low enough that it's not going to be shiny in windows.

C

So- and I understand you picked a special pole and it seems like a very nice lighting, fixture.

C

But I just want to be out there so that we send it make sure bubble shore, but we're not going to.

C

Get complaints about bleed lights, so there's no spill beyond the property lines. We have cut-offs.

H

We understand, regardless of where you are. If you look out, you can still see the light, but they're.

H

I can't put up curtains around the property so and I'm not sure what what effect the two.

H

Foot will change but but our concern is when we, because the polls don't throw a lot of light so.

C

They're connected by two feet: it's not a mandate, it's a comment and we just want to make sure.

C

That somebody looked at it: okay, okay, we're gonna, keep them. Okay,.

H

uh And then number nine is the maneuverability around the site and our.

H

um And the retaining wall in our um what we did when we laid out that retaining wall is one is.

H

We looked at the existing on fence, that is, on the abutting property to the north.

H

And we didn't want to cut off any of that fence, and you also look that the butters on.

H

Driveway encroaches onto this property, and so we didn't want to take away any of that driveway. So.

H

What we can do, we can actually move remove part of the fence, that's on our property and we can move.

H

A little bit closer to the northerly property line with the retaining wall gain about a foot.

H

And that will, I think, meet the goals of what I think you were looking for. Eric with that would.

H

That suffice yeah I mean because you don't want vehicles going back there and getting stuck or.

G

Hitting the wall damaging the vehicle damaging the wall, something like that, it's it needs to.

G

Be usable, it needs to be realistic. Okay. So if we move in a foot, you think you're, okay,.

G

As long as the vehicles are small enough to get through there, yeah yeah, I mean you.

G

Never know what size vehicle you're going to get attempting to make a maneuver back there well or.

H

They line themselves up improperly, that's just a fact of yeah okay chair for the corner of that.

C

Tote enclosure a little bit make it easier for them to get around the inside corner.

H

Yeah we could, we could do something. Let's take a look at that that'd be great.

H

I think that that's that's a viable alternative as well.

G

Because, certainly it's more desirable to have them drive around the building rather than back out onto islington. But, yes, you have to be able to make the agreed.

H

I'm so I think that brings us to item 10 in the on conditional use permit, so we put together. I.

H

Think a very thorough explanation of the need for the conditional use permit and why we're.

H

um I think meeting the requirements of the property. uh Yes, we do assume that the foundry.

H

Garage will be used. I believe that it's it's much closer to the site on than a lot of the properties.

H

Along the downtown waterfront you'll be the intent would be for employee parking, it wouldn't be. I do.

H

Not anticipate any patrons would ever parked at the foundry garage and come to the site.

H

I'm I do disagree that two-wheel transportation is not a year-round option. I I believe it absolutely.

H

Is this morning I saw three middle school kids biking down middle street. I on the way over here. I.

H

Saw a bike park in front of the clipper tavern and I'm pretty sure I saw an e-bike parked in front.

H

Of the building here today coming in so it is a year-round option. It's not something that works.

H

In inclement weather, but it it is a year-round option.

H

um And I think that we're providing uh more parking than two similar uses on islington.

H

Street and I don't think that there's any significant issues with either of those.

H

Those properties, so I I really think that we meet the requirements of the conditional use permit.

H

All right, I'm done, do you have anything done not covered well all right. Any questions or comments.

A

From tech members that the um the canopy area that's going to be outdoor seating, yes,.

R

Is there anything that would protect the people in the outdoor seating from vehicles for parking.

H

Robert, you want to talk to it a little bit sure.

S

Hello, robert whitemeyer, with winterholden, so the question is about seeding: how to protect.

S

The people underneath the canopy yeah from the people that are spaces that they would be pulling.

S

Well, it's all curved all the way around there uh to begin with, we have anticipated outside of just.

S

The columns that support the canopy between the street and the seating as you can see that planter.

S

Bed there, which will have some fairly- I forget exactly what terence had in there but they're not.

S

They're, not daisies um there'll, be something a little larger for sure.

S

um Between the parking and the seating, on the right hand, side we're anticipating.

S

uh Basically, a planner box, slash, sort of standing rail and that area.

S

um But yeah I mean that's, that's basically the anticipated.

S

Impediments between somebody I mean, if somebody really wants to do it, we don't.

S

Have like bollards all the way in through the ground or anything along those lines outside.

S

Of like between we've got like some lighting poles, some short ones anticipated between the.

S

um The motor scooters parking and the and the seating areas.

S

I cut you off there go for it. I I think it's it's drawn on this as a rope, enclosure.

Q

In fact, yeah it's, what we have shown is in some sort of enclosure. Yeah I mean I, I could foresee.

Q

A planter of some sort to match the fencing in the back or something that's low enough. That's.

Q

You know certainly a much more of a impediment than a rope.

H

What are your concerns, patrick and what would you like seeing there? Well, I mean.

C

I said there was a baller right in front of each parking space. People jump in the car.

M

Yeah I've seen her quite a few times. I've seated where's it seriously right through.

M

The wall of bank I've seen it twice in seven years, we're not going to want every parking.

P

Space in portsmouth to have a bollard on the end of it you've got a raise curb. You know.

P

You've got to want to go over that to go over it. I don't think that's the case, because I've.

R

Been on a few of those calls, you understood, that's exactly what happened pretty rare, but.

P

I mean it's true. It will be two two balls cages, so maybe so maybe that handicapped signs you put a.

C

Ballet right there they do have the ones we have a bollard in front of the handicap space. So it.

H

Really only leaves on the right side of vehicular or automobile that one space where uh the the.

H

Cursor is, and there's a curb in front of that one, I'm about the on the motorcycle side. We do.

H

Not have curving there due to grading. Oh those are the motorcycles. Just like market square right, yeah.

H

So I just put that one. I would say that one space is really what it sounds like you're concerned.

R

Yeah I mean, if you could just do something that would stop the vehicle. Doesn't that be every space.

R

um But certainly that space would probably be a nice.

H

We could put us a baller in front of that one space and maybe live employee of the week or.

C

Customer you see the employees are going to park at the phone. That's why I said just say: customer.

H

Of the week it could be in front of the space could be on the other side of the sidewalk and.

R

However, you want to design something that looks good, but it's you know if it was parallel to the.

R

Sidewalk, as opposed to perpendicular, it wouldn't be an issue yeah kind of pulling directly in to.

R

People aren't paying attention whether people are walking on the sidewalk or paying attention yeah.

S

We could hide the surprise in that planner. You can do that too. I think nick, what I've seen twice only.

M

Is that look behind you the thing you know they think they're in reverse and they give it gas.

M

And then go right forward and that's that's how it's happened historically, but you know they get.

P

That power to have it everywhere has that yeah we have an opportunity right. We've got a new, a new.

H

An application you know that was the last time my father drove.

H

And I took his license the next day, bro.

C

She drove over terence the stone distance [laughter].

C

Well, she wrote about that. I'd rather see you go to vertical granite and start yeah vertical.

H

Granite, there's vertical granite there on that side. Yes, what's the reveal an inch and a half.

B

Yeah, so how are you getting over that, without without an on-ramp, you think you're pushing on the.

R

Brake by pressure as though you're pushing on the brake all right and you're push on the gas. That's.

R

How you know we've seen vehicles inside buildings importance before okay, we'll make it pretty.

H

Do you have other questions for us? I do have one more. It's uh the bikes bike parking. Yes,.

G

That's on uh stone, crushed stone as well, yes, and how on a different surface- or I mean I'm not.

G

Thrilled with that location, how do they propose to get to that location, not if you're on a bike.

H

So they're all come down, islington street from one side or the other and they will get onto.

H

The sidewalk and then walk their bike on the sidewalk, because you know that it's not legal.

G

To ride a bike on a sidewalk correct, that is why I said they will walk their bike on the sidewalk.

G

Somewhere closes the front door would be preferable, but.

H

Did it's a tight site and you have the canopy and it takes away from.

H

Some of the seating area outside, and so I we thought it was a fairly welcoming spot.

H

With that wider walkway entering the site yeah, if you could just do make a.

G

Hard service that would be better yeah the papers which you said right done.

D

So you're parking cop. Can I ask a question about that? I I know we talked about it already, but I'm.

D

Bringing it up again, um so your solution is that people are going to ride their bikes and mopeds.

D

And and there's going to be it's more of a neighborhood field, a lot of people are going to be.

H

Walking here, have you considered finding a place for like employee parking off-site or something.

D

To reduce the demand, I think that's, the intent is to have the employees park in the garage. No okay.

D

I mean you know it's not our decision, it's a plenty of worse decision and they're, pretty.

D

Tough on those, so I just want to make sure you're ready for a close scrutiny on it. Yep.

D

And this neighborhood has been going through the neighborhood parking program in recent.

G

Years and it's a very high priority issue for this neighborhood to make sure that they're.

G

On street parking is not taking up by other businesses. Yeah I mean, I think we eric alluded.

Q

To it, there's two other businesses on this on his lincoln street that have less parking than this.

Q

I mean they're not going to be before the planning board. That's a perk. Initially, we understand that.

H

But we, you know, we look at it and say: is there severe issues with that and we don't see that.

D

Yeah, I'm just I'm just offering that if you could find you know a space, they.

D

Could park in and have it be employee parking off site whether it's founder.

D

Garage or somewhere, that's not just a recommendation to your employees, but a.

D

Contract or a arrangement, then it'll go a long way. I think, to help you.

A

um Any other comments at this time, not we'll open it up for public comment, absolutely.

J

You want to cut it down now.

J

Is the top three? Is the top.

G

J

All right, so you have all your your 8x10 glossy photos, glossy I'm sorry! I don't have a glossy.

T

Printer good afternoon, elizabeth brad or property owner 159 mcdonough streets, any improvements.

T

To 361 islington street would be celebrated by neighbors. It has looked pretty bad for a long time.

T

The key things brought up repeatedly have been the number of parking spaces noise, especially.

T

At night and the desire for a neighborhood friendly business, which a bagel place would.

T

Be but a lounge, not so much each committee or board has the ability to regulate these.

T

Issues by reflecting on the consequences of the changes and recommendations they make.

T

For example, a ups and fedex truck according to the internet for home delivery are listed as.

T

Seven feet tall 26 feet long and 10 feet wide a side load. Trash truck can use anywhere from 9 to.

T

14 feet clearance to pick up individual barrels and then that arm rests next to the side of the.

T

Truck either in a pocket, sometimes they have a really elaborate system where they pocket.

T

Right in and otherwise they hang on the outside of the truck by anywhere from six to four inches.

T

A standard pickup truck that has a nine foot plow, which is about what most people have some.

T

People have bigger ones, but the average is nine feet may have difficulty clearing that smaller.

T

Section in the rear of the building, when there's three inches of snow on the ground.

T

Clearance is presented are based on the numbers that are added into a program.

T

So the question is: will nine feet six inches be wide enough.

T

One of the most important things to remember is that this law is only fifteen thousand one hundred.

T

And forty four square feet and according to the plans over 13 600, will be disturbed.

T

That leaves only one thousand five hundred and forty four screen square feet that won't.

T

Be disturbed: where exactly is that, let's talk about the tree, if you look at the tree picture.

T

Has been surrounded by asphalt and granite for at least 40 years or more opening up what.

T

Looks like if you look at the top, can you slide the picture down a little bit peter.

T

Just to submission, thank you. So if you look at the top, it looks like over 17 feet of green space.

T

Will be added to one side of the tree that has been living for at least a hundred years, with no.

T

Green green space whatsoever, so it causes one to wonder: will this encourage more surface roots to.

T

Grow, or will this change its growth onto 361 lot due to there being an uneven access to light soil.

T

In water, just something to think about all right, let's turn the page. Please look at my design plan.

T

The parking spaces on the right are not to scale. Everything else is to scale it's 1, 16 of an.

T

Inch equals one foot the outside seating. Sorry yeah. Take that take that back. So if you take a.

T

Minute to look at the design plan, it includes moving the 30 by 17 foot kitchen inside the.

T

Existing building and expanding some of the dining room into the presented outdoor area.

T

The outdoor searing see, if you turn to the next pitch, but keep that for.

T

Reference, but this is what was presented the outdoor this rendering was presented to.

T

This historic district commission, what they are showing on this plan, is not what was presented at.

T

Least my understanding of it. The outdoor seating area, is about 1200 square feet. It's listed as 1183.

T

That's bigger than an allowed adu and bigger than many single-family homes in portsmouth. The green.

T

State space that's presented is about 595 square feet, which is about the size of a micro apartment.

T

Which would be great because I'm all about green space, except the needed parking is not even close.

T

To the very minimum they're supposed to have 22 spaces they're, showing you 12.. On top of that, the.

T

Presented seating area, although it's proposed for only 31 people, which is about 30 38 square.

T

Feet per person shows nine to a nine. You can see on there there's a nine two of twelve seats for.

T

A proposed lounge and that's how it's listed on this thing that that's going to be a lounge and.

T

There's at least five six person tables, that is a rendering, but that seems like a lot of space.

T

The most interesting thing for me about this rendering is that all the vent all.

T

The venting is shown on that edition. That's 695 square feet, which is less than 15 feet from a.

T

Residential property line now it could be 32 feet if they used my plan, even if they just.

T

Reconfigured it it would protect the neighbors and their cars from the noise smell and grease.

T

Those vents are going to be pulling grease above the building. It's a one-story building. It sits.

T

Higher it sits just a little bit higher than the land below which sits about three feet lower. So.

T

That grease is going to naturally go there, so it's just something for you to keep in mind.

T

The basic reconfiguration of moving the kitchen into the original building could yield 85 square.

T

Feet more for the kitchen bathroom area, which is enough room to put lockers or an.

T

Enclosed coat rack for the employees and it would also allow for a safer egress.

T

From the kitchen, if there was a fire, because if you look at the plans of the kitchen.

T

They show two bathrooms and the kitchen and then a small door to get out. This would allow for a.

T

Larger door for in case of a fire it could allow for the use of the original serve plant. So if you.

T

Go to the next page. I did some artsy crafty stuff, because I know you guys love it. The first page is.

T

Is the precise preparation and the second page is the store line? If you hold it up, I made it dark so.

T

That you can see the proposed or a line is further up and closer to the tree. So if you look at that.

T

It would allow for the original sewer line it right now. There's.

T

From what I understand and I'm not an engineer, the original store water pipe.

T

To be to be to become the a new separated sewer line, and it would move it a little further from.

T

The proposed location, which is about nine feet away from those roots of that tree.

T

It would still keep the proposed water pipe about 10 feet away from the new soar pipe, thereby.

T

Meeting the regulations which are found on plan c, 4, page 14, which is the next page. This thing tells.

T

You that they have to be 10 feet away. So if you move that keep the sewer line where it originally.

T

Was it's going to be capped? According to this, the site plan thing you could move the sewer line.

T

There it would still be coming off of there and if you look at the plan that I drew you're going to.

T

Move that green space out of there you're going to put five parking spaces in the back you're going.

T

To move the green space and move the grease trap, and it's going to be right where that sewer line.

T

Goes it's going to be perfectly lined, there'll, be none of that kinky stuff! That's going on! It's.

T

Going to come straight out, we all know pipes like to be straight at the hdc meeting on november.

T

2Nd 2022 the existing size of both the garage and the canopy were provided. That's this page.

T

That's plan ae11, however, the new plans, if you just turn it over to the back.

T

Show the layout of the outdoor seating, but not any lengths, widths or uses, are marked. Now they.

T

Already told you on another page that that side is going to be a bar, but it doesn't what's going.

T

To be a lounge, whatever you need for bagels and having a lounge, I'm not really sure, maybe they're.

T

Going to have recliners there, but there's going to be a lounge there and the other side is going to.

T

Be in outdoor seating, but there's no references to what the use is going to be. Please encourage.

T

361 islington street to maximize protections from noise for neighbors maintain at least the minimums.

T

As the latest business, which was liar's bench, they provided all 26 parking spaces to this area and.

T

Do and do not allow allow them to add a lounge when they're already two breweries within two to.

T

Three blocks of this proposed establishment, which both have had many noise complaints over the years.

T

Because they too have the sliding glass doors that are garage doors that open all the way up.

T

And these sit directly across from two residential homes. Thank you for your time and consideration.

T

And reflection on the consequences of the recommendation and changes made by this committee.

A

Any other comments, public comment.

A

A

A

No one on zoom or word any other all right, so we'll close the public comment portion.

A

um Any other comments, discussion amongst tack.

G

I did uh lindsay mentioned the delivery of ambient 26. That's what I've seen as well as the 26 is a.

G

Standard size for a band where they're showing 21 on this turning diagram, so it'd be great. If.

G

You can get a 26 foot band unless that's if we look and that's pretty much the largest that.

H

We're expecting to be able to maneuver the site and we're going to have to work with that. It's.

H

26 is not going to work at all with the building edition. No.

M

Oh yeah, maybe this was addressed earlier, but um the grease trap is under the snow storage. Is that right.

H

M

How can you have both, in other words, if you needed a service degree, strap.

M

Then they will, I guess so: yeah yeah frozen ice. The fact that the heat off that concrete I mean.

H

That cast iron cover is probably going to melt it pretty quick. So it's a snow melting area, yeah.

U

Can I ask some questions sure what are the hours of operation that might be on the plan set, but I.

H

Can't remember, I did a quick look. I couldn't find it so just point me in that direction. The the.

Q

Intent is not to late night place for sure I mean general use is going to be a.

Q

uh You know bagel shop and you know kind of sandwich shop into their early evening hours.

Q

um You know it's hard to pitch and hold what a business is going to be till until we start so.

Q

So as of right now, it's not really a dinner spot.

A

Good, any other comments has to address the fire safety concerns.

R

That were brought up uh they're putting the sprinkler system in this building.

R

And the egress will certainly will be meeting the building over by our coasts.

R

So let's see yeah we have a separate yeah service, so that will be sprinkled.

R

No real concerns safer than it was before.

K

We say awesome, I can comment on the the grease trap concerns that were brought up. It is.

K

Greece-Laden water, waste off of washed dishes or prepared food, it would be then collected in.

K

This grease trap uh it would not travel up and out of any any events, if that is a large concern, but.

K

It would be maintained in this in this interceptor. It's not the grease.

T

Traffic, the vents on the ceiling on the roof that have grace in them.

T

Stuck up, you have grease when you cook french fries. Are you making the bagels there.

M

Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, okay. I don't believe that the business is a you know, a deep, fried type.

H

Of business that you're, it's going to be a very little grease that generated from.

H

This property, so I don't think in there um their vents and you're going to have a lot of food odors.

H

It's more steam from the baggling bagel process, yeah you're, really, the hood is really acting as a.

Q

You know conduit for the heat from the oven to get out of the building more than anything.

P

If you have an existing location somewhere else, no all right.

Q

Currently, a test kitchen in our homes, they're, good, okay, yeah, it's a nice reuse of the property.

A

I'll just point out that there will be another conditional use, permit, that's required and.

A

That's for the outdoor seating, outdoor dining, I think the applicant's aware, but it didn't.

A

Need to come before attack, but that will be for the planning board for the planning board.

H

Any other questions of us.

D

Be all set, I think so I'll make a lotion to approve, recommend approval.

P

Changes discussed today yeah what were the stipulations that the ballard the parking lot? The.

D

Gravel changes they're going to look at changing the gravel yeah and then the landscape area.

D

Change that out to some kind of ground cover in addressing the uh inside the drain connectors to.

D

Our comments and moving the retaining wall back of foot yeah and nick's going to shovel the snow yeah.

Q

Does that include all of the comics discussed from staff? Some of them didn't apply because of.

H

The light, I think, just sure, but the ones you've noted you'll revise- are correct. No absolutely yeah.

D

We'll look at the revisions for before planning board too. I guess we're committed to that. I do.

U

Have one question for the chapter: seven uh storm water regulation or say plan review regulations.

U

Do we need that in writing or on the plan or anything or is the verbalization that they needed.

D

So do we have those stipulations clearly enough, do you want me to go through them again? I think.

U

I got them, but if you wanna, I don't know if I got them either. Okay, I think I got them.

D

So it's the landscaping and gravel, but just don't the wall movement bollard.

C

That's it lighting not to be a nuisance lighting, not.

D

To be a nuisance, that was, that was in the comments.

U

The wall which which wall the retaining wall behind the building nowhere is.

D

Going to move back and forth or towards the property line of foot.

U

I think that's everything.

U

Does there want to be any review on the baller placement.

R

G

Oh, I got a question. The getty sign what's happening with that on the.

G

Corner this is relocated by city, but is that staying so our you have to move it aside.

C

Granted the city when we were going through permitting earlier and your signals going.

H

In this season, and so my understanding having a discussion with dave is that we show a location.

H

For it, the contract appraislington street will put it in that location. The same side.

H

Will be refaced does that need the easement to be.

D

Renewed or adjusted to us right place it it's good. Okay, yeah! It's within the easement area,.

H

Well, your signal will be in the easement area. Our sign will be moved out of the easement area. Okay,.

C

They can't be in the same spot yeah, but that we don't need to change the easement language. Okay,.

C

No we'll just pluck it out and put it down where the toaster.

G

And it won't say getty.

J

It will not eat here and get a bagel bagel eat here and get cast right.

G

We used to be a place like that all right, any other stipulations.

A

We all set so peter made. The motion: was there a second.

A

Second, from dave all in favor aye, any opposed motion carries. Thank you. Thank you very much.

N

Well, they'll need at least administrator all right last, but certainly not least, the requests are.

A

Brandon kunkel applicant in the city of portsmouth, owner for property located at 305, greenland road.

A

Requesting site plan review approval for the construction of a 19, 500 square foot.

A

Skateboard park, including walkways and a 25-space parking lot with associated site improvements.

A

Said property is shown on the session map 241 lot 18. and lies within the municipal district.

A

Well great, thank you it's great to be here this afternoon and.

V

To discuss this project with you, we did, we did receive uh the comments.

V

um I believe the expectation is we'll just work through them and have discussions as appropriate.

V

So just off the top of the head number top of the list number one confirm the existing catch basin.

V

To be reset can't accept an additional 12-inch hdpe pipe. My civil engineer says: yes, it can based.

V

On uh sorry, the size of the existing structure you guys haven't presented here right, we have no could.

V

You just go and overview yeah. That's! Okay! Yeah, no trouble those other guys that were in front.

D

Of you, they had been before us a couple times: nope no trouble, I apologize um sure. So this is.

V

A skate park that the city is looking to provide to the community. It will, as it.

V

Was noted approximately uh nearly 20 000 square foot skate park. It is really the first phase of.

V

A uh intended to be multiple phase program at the end, including a bicycle, bmx pump, track.

V

Called a half rectangular field for small pickup uh recreational style games as well.

V

As additional parking and a future trailhead for the boston and main railroad connection.

V

Up at the north side, currently the site is being used for city projects by a contractor.

V

For staging, that's what the giant mounds of dirt that you see on the survey to the.

V

North of the project area, the intention is that uh he will be allowed to use the site.

V

Until this project is completed and then ultimately, he will remove any material or.

V

His materials from the site uh to be back to the original condition prior to him being on site.

V

The it does include a 25.

V

Space parking area, as well as a sidewalk from greenland road into the site and then down to the.

V

Skate park area, we are going to be providing the empty conduits for future lighting.

V

um For of the skate park, so that uh when the city does have the funds available, they.

V

Are able to install the footings and light pole stanchions for the skate park itself.

V

um We are also currently in the midst of a alteration of terrain application with the state.

V

So they are also aware of this project as well. um Any questions at this point.

V

All right, thank you, yeah no trouble um the so the existing catch basin and I believe it's the one.

V

uh That is a long greenland road. uh I apologize. Actually, no it's uh if you're well, I guess maybe.

V

That, perhaps is the confirmation, but if we were to zoom in a bit there's an existing catch base and.

V

um I got a utility plan yeah. That would be helpful.

V

Next, one right there is perfect and then towards the parking lot.

D

On the left, correct.

V

So down by- uh and this will address a few of the comments so there's a note down by reset.

V

Existing catch base and I believe, that's the catch base and that's being referred to.

V

um It is a quite large structure. Currently, it's already got a 24 inch pipe coming into it, and I.

V

Suspect, that's why the concern is: is it large enough, but given the inverts and elevations, we.

V

Believe that there's and where we're coming in on the opposite side of the 24 inch, we believe.

V

There's enough room to accommodate an additional 12 inch, we will show all electrical connections to.

V

The cabinet either conduit or overhead, they will be conduits, we did add them to the plant already.

V

We are going to come from the utility pool. We will get the utility pole number and add that.

V

To the plan as well, I believe that was one of the comments and this will allow for when the.

V

City's able to get lighting and provide the power they will have it all. The infrastructure in place.

V

um We will extend the curbs up beyond just beyond the gate to ensure that people are.

V

Not driving around the gate, I know there's been some internal discussions related to.

V

The contact cds unit that we're currently currently proposing my understanding is.

V

That that's actually been been okayed uh related to whether or not it's contact or.

V

Another product type, but it does meet the requirements of the stormwater treatment.

V

uh So we plan on keeping it as a contact at this point unless there's uh concerns related to that.

V

So the original design and uh was not intended to treat uh greenland road. I know there is a.

V

Inlet coming off a greenland road and it ties into that reset catch basin. However, we can.

V

Move the contact system to be just downstream of that, so we are now treating the road as part.

V

Of this project it will get slightly larger to accommodate the road, but that that is fine.

V

uh It's a win-win, I think, for everybody, um we will change the detail of the gravel.

V

Parking lot, the city is going to provide the recycled asphalt, pavement topping so we'll.

V

Adjust the profile and that will be brought in by the city in place by the contractor.

V

This the storm water design, does adhere to um the treatment of the the size of the development.

V

As well as the nitrogen requirements as well- and I guess perhaps if someone could elaborate.

V

A little bit on the nitrogen treatment, so we believe between the contact as well as.

V

You know the swale that runs along uh greenland road.

V

And the management of uh the city in their organic fertilizers that we are managing the nitrogen.

V

Appropriately, but I guess if there's other concerns beyond that, we're happy to hear that.

V

um You will provide a mark at the end of the conduit for the future cabinet and transformer no trouble.

V

There um we've already added the two five inch conduits from the utility pole. As I noted.

V

uh We will make a note on the tree planting detail. All burlap is to remove be removed entirely.

V

um We are gonna: we've increased the driveway radius to allow for larger vehicles to turn in.

V

Particularly during construction, the existing contractor will maintain access to the site.

V

Or his portion of the site, but also at the end for emergency vehicle purposes,.

V

um We will add additional seating outside of the skate park area. That's a great comment.

V

um Thank you we'll add a few benches um on concrete pads. We'll also add some bike.

V

Racks near where the accessible parking comes into the the walkways down to the skate park,.

V

There is a comment here related to: please explain the layout of the parking lot um and.

V

I'm not exactly sure what that is inferring, but I think it's the end yeah. So we've modified that as.

V

Well already and it's related to a snow storage, so we've basically have just continued to wear.

V

The hammer head ends and just provided a giant square for snow storage in that general vicinity.

V

At the end of it, so the so the curves go in it's just so. Currently there is no curbing beyond the.

V

Entrance of the parking lot can you go so? What is that at the end, the plan? I chose this one here.

D

The blair section, so that was just a gravel turn around hammer. Oh okay, yeah! You put! Do you really.

P

Need that versus just a short connector off the end of the driveway that maybe goes 10 15 feet.

V

So there's another comment related to snow storage, so we just have basically gotten.

V

Rid of the hammerhead and it's just a big square at the end now.

P

Can you park in there so does it just extend the parking then, because none of it's really marked.

C

Correct hilarious, just flush, gravel, the whole area, so it's normal parking yeah. You can roll right off.

C

And you can turn around anywhere, you want to and right well, it makes it more gravel, yeah.

V

um We we are going to add a.

V

Bathroom portage on canopy, with accessible porta, john.

V

At the site, it'll be located in the future that actually intended to be a smaller.

V

Pavilion between the triangular sidewalk area in the skate park will put it generally within.

V

That vicinity of the triangle area, just so it's accessible for cleaning and maintenance.

V

From that perspective, so it'll be between the parking lot and the skate park itself.

V

And then uh maybe this goes to your question. uh Please explain how the flow of traffic will.

V

Work inside the park, including beginner areas, spectator areas and crossing into the middle.

V

Shaded section, I guess so it will be asphalt, paved sidewalks, um ada accessible. It general. The large.

V

Majority of the skate park is actually pretty flat. The big rectangular square in the middle.

V

Is a shade pavilion, the pavilion will be an alternate giving where we are currently.

V

Within the budget, but it is intended to be installed if it can be within the budget, but.

V

um The general, the the large rectangular portion, the central core of the skate park, is very flat.

V

For a beginner learning there are some walls. I am not the skate park designer full disclosure, so.

V

um I'm happy to follow up with additional details. I know it's been well vetted by the city as well.

V

As the skate park committee, that's been formed to support this project. I do know there are plenty.

V

Of seat walls within the skate park itself for sitting, but also skating um and then in general,.

V

I I know the skate park designer is very aware of the ada requirements I have to.

V

Imagine it is meeting day requirements for accessibility, as outlined here.

V

um But if, if there's further detail that is required or additional questions, I'm.

V

Happy to follow up, and we can have him be part of that conversation.

P

I have a quick question about for you. Let me move on. How are you edging that bituminous sidewalk.

P

From from the parking and anything else, is there an edge there is a guard rail on the inside of the.

V

um Asphalt sidewalk uh to prevent cars from driving in okay, so, along between the parking.

P

Space and the and the sidewalk there's a guard rail, no it's on the back side of it. So it's to.

P

Prevent people from getting into the skate park or not not driving right, so there's no.

P

Edge, it's flushed, the gravels, the sidewalk right there there's your classic. That's that's! Not the.

P

Safest condition, I would agree in that case, if they're at grade with nothing separating.

P

The sidewalk from the parking we can probably want at least bumpers or something in the lot.

P

Along that edge to keep the cars off the sidewalk, at least on the left bay.

P

Area, would you be amenable to moving the guardrail to the front of the sidewalk.

J

It's probably better: okay, yeah, I'm less concerned about people who are watching and paying attention.

R

But certainly it would be better, be more safe to have it between the pedestrians.

R

V

So we will move the guard rail to be that edge between the parking and that sidewalk yeah.

J

Okay, give it a foot yep yeah. I think the sidewalks are eight feet wide at the moment.

V

So plenty of room.

D

So I know you said that there's a future plan to connect to the rail railroad. Is there.

D

I guess people just find their way from the from there over to here, or they go up to give a sense.

D

Of how that'll work well, ultimately, there will be uh continued sidewalk up to the upper north corner.

V

uh But it currently not part of this project. Can they get through there, though, if they wanted to.

D

Walk on gravel or yes, the dirt yeah, okay, yeah and there'd, be a pathway, probably 10 feet wide great.

C

So I want a slight structure to this point, but it'll be there so they'll have they'll be able to.

D

Find it that way, yeah I mean ultimately, there will be a kiosk to sort of serve as a trailhead. Okay,.

V

Is there somewhere where the next phase planes live? Could those be provided sure you can see what.

R

The plans are understanding, it could change for sure yeah. There is a master plan that was.

V

Performed by the city, um I assume they're public document. Yes, I can provide those they'll be on the.

O

Website on the website they probably are, but I don't know I'll throw mad. Maybe you already.

M

Answered this, but did you do you address comment number 16? Will there be security fencing around.

V

The I did not come and I missed that, but the answer is currently. There is not intended to.

V

Be fencing around the skate park area and how deep are the bowls? The concrete bowls.

M

uh The deepest bowl is about six feet. I was only about six feet: okay, yeah they're,.

V

All things considered, they're relatively shallow in the skate park world. I guess.

M

Is is that a concern for anyone? You know animals, a deer is getting down inside there. I mean it.

M

Happens and happened in my swimming pool right, um I don't know it would seemed like you'd have some.

M

Sort of a perimeter to keep you know, but can they get out? I guess I haven't really looked.

M

At the layout, maybe there's like a rollout and- and you know there so it's hard to tell.

V

In the plan and uh again, I'm not the skate park designer, but up in the corner, where you.

V

See the kidney, uh the 3d images might be good, yeah that show's gonna look for there. You go.

V

I believe the bowl is sort of terrace. It's two different elevations there's a shallow side and.

V

A deep side, much like a swimming pool, got it probably get out of there pretty easy. It goes.

V

From yeah six feet at the deepest and then I think the shallower is about three feet: okay, all right.

R

A little concerned about access for an ambulance in that area I mean we.

R

Wouldn't need the larger apparatus. Can you put it in the parking lot? I don't think, but.

V

So there is a, I believe: it's uh approximately 12 feet wide if you were to go back to the overall.

V

Site plan, or at least the plan we were looking at with the drainage that would.

V

Wear the ada parking is going to be that's about 12 feet wide in between the guard rails.

V

Is that is that wide enough.

V

Yeah where's where's here correct yep.

R

You know just that's it wide enough to get through.

P

um If the spaces are empty, well, that's true too,.

R

We would want to be able to get to different areas of the park.

R

Or at least up to the gate, the main gate of the park and get out again without.

R

Backing up, if possible, maybe you should widen out but handicap spaces and have a.

P

Wider striped area there, so it's always open a dedicated access, speed, wide okay.

C

Yeah that works do not park good work, yeah.

C

It's cross hatchet, so nobody parks there yeah, okay and then that's kind of where maybe.

R

Understanding the future plans sure you know what else is going out there and how.

R

It connects and how we're going to be able to get out there if we need to.

R

I can get our specs for the ambulance to you, okay, to give to the designer okay, so just to.

W

Clarify that at this point peter, can you come up to the money please and just state your name.

W

Peter rice, director of public works, just to clarify that master plan hasn't been fully.

W

Developed and our intent is not to have this be that master plan. So we understand the desire to.

W

Have access to the to the skateboard park and we will make sure that happens. But in terms of.

W

Informing this discussion, I wouldn't hang your hat on. You know what the master plan and we were.

W

Showing an identified project in the future, it's an out-year project. It's not a near-term project.

R

And all we're worried about right now is this project I'm just looking down for ease later on.

R

You know to build it so that it lend itself for your future expansion just but that's a.

R

You know for you guys to figure out yeah as long as we can get to win. No we're fine digress to a.

W

Future project that you know we'll make sure that that project accommodates access right.

A

Any other comments at this time. Anyone from the public like to make any comments.

P

Just come to the microphone. Introduce yourself, are you sure, we're in 1821, islington street or.

X

Buttered, the property- I just have a couple of concerns- uh I'd say that the first concern I.

X

Have is, is traffic in grass egress out of this site? um I think if you talk to the contractors.

X

Or even some of the staff in the public works department that uh area there in islington are.

X

33 intersection of islington and middle road is dangerous. You've got uh traffic coming westbound.

X

um Two lanes facing the entrance to that you have two lanes: eastbound one turns down to islington.

X

And the other one goes straight, and then you also have islington coming up with a right-hand term. So.

X

You've got all this in that small within 150 200 feet of that entrance. I just think if anybody's.

X

Going you know when you go to those lights on on middle road uh to route 33. you've got two.

X

Lanes you've got two cars side by side racing to go to the one lane that goes over the bridge.

X

You know to me, you've got and I think you can probably concur with that or add to this you've.

X

Got 16 to 21 year old, 22 year old, youth driving out of that area there and it's difficult. I mean.

X

You know I talked to the guys at severino and sometimes that trucks have to wait. 10-15.

X

Minutes to get out of there, so I I just think there's got to be some um change there. I mean.

X

Obviously, you can't change that site, but maybe you can just do right turns only out of the site.

X

And make it safer, I'm just afraid that there's going to be an accident there.

X

I don't know what the traffic count is. You know I looked at the the brief little study here and.

X

It just said: you've got a sight line of 450 feet or greater well, you may, but you have cars going.

X

At probably 40 plus miles an hour, you've got traffic, turning in different directions. Coming.

X

Off islington street coming onto middle under 33., I just think it's a dangerous intersection.

X

Right there with the potential of problems and I'd rather see it addressed now than have an.

X

Accident and then in the future you go back and say: well, we should have done something different.

X

I mean it, is it's a tough spot, I mean it really is, and- and I don't know what else you can do with it.

X

um The other concern that I've got is that we've got 25 parking spaces roughly.

X

What's going to keep more traffic from going in there in terms of at the end of that parking area,.

X

Is there going to be a gate there, for you know to block it off, or can they just drive drive.

X

Around it- and I'm also thinking about people that want to use the rail trail, because we have people.

X

Going into our yard asking us where the rail trail parking is, and you know, maybe we can make a little.

X

Extra money, you know a little parking lot back there, but seriously. um I think you can have a lot.

X

Of people that are going to are looking for that rail trail and they want to use it if they figure.

X

The skateboard people can be in there. Why can't they be their parking and then get access to it?.

X

um Other questions I've got drainage, okay, so so you've got this system with this new cds.

X

uh Thing and I think the idea of picking up the the middle road catch basins is really good and.

X

I don't know how much more that's going to cost, but- um and you indicate that it says clean water.

X

Is going to be coming out of this 24 inch pipe that goes into the city pond? [music] um What is.

X

Clean water, I mean, is it something that you can just take a class to and start drinking or is it.

X

Hydrocarbons and and nitrogen, and some of these other things are taken out, but.

X

It still isn't clean enough technically to be drinking water. Is that how that, for this.

X

And that's my question is: is how clean is the water that's going to go into that pond.

D

So this is just a public comment session. We're not. Oh, we don't typically answer a question. Okay,.

X

Well, all right, that's fine, we can take it. Then I say: maybe we should look at how how clean clean.

X

The water is going into the pond yeah and um and uh then think about what that pond.

X

Is I mean this whole area? I mean when I was a kid. uh A hundred years ago we used to play in the.

X

uh In the quote, stump dump the gravel pit. It was water down at the bottom of that it was a pond and.

X

Then, during the 60s 70s and early 80s, they ended up filling it up with stumps.

X

And everything else now the problematic in in uh the problem with this whole area is.

X

That for a period of about from the mid 70s, well, actually the early 70s to the mid 80s.

X

That was an unregulated landfill. There was no public works control. There was no gate.

X

People would just come in there and dump anything, and it didn't matter when they.

X

Dumped it, it could be sunday morning sunday afternoon or anything, so you have to think.

X

A little bit about the site itself in terms of overall aquifer and everything, because I remember.

X

In the in the mid 80s, I have pictures of, I think, a stove in refrigerator and 55 gallon drums.

X

Sticking out of piles that were actually over our property. So so I'm just saying that that is.

X

A you know: unregulated. It was an unregulated landfill that never was closed, even though.

X

It was supposed to be closed and I don't know how you would close it and there was never any.

X

Call it a barrier waterproof barrier underneath it so anyways. um I think the traffic and and the.

X

Quality, you know, the control of the environment is the most important thing to us and one other.

X

Thing, I'm sorry, but the other question uh and the the other thing is that I don't know how I.

X

Just think this is going to be extremely popular and I think 25 parking spaces may be a little.

X

um uh Not as much as is necessary uh and I'm just wondering what accommodations are going.

X

To be made for, if there's overflow parking that you know it needs to do, there's no place on on.

X

That road you're going to park, maybe people at the ball field- you know, but then that's really.

X

Busy too so I mean it's a nice, you know it's a busy area and I I think personally I mean I.

X

Think peter peter might think that I would be here against the skateboard park, but I.

X

Actually, I think it's really necessary for this group of kids because they really don't have.

X

um A lot of things going for him, you know, and they really think that this is going to help.

X

Them out- and they really, I think, it's a great alternative for them, and I it's long overdue.

X

um And that's why I you know I'm pretty passionate about the uh uh the traffic going in and out of.

X

This site, because I you know it's- it's there's a lot of blind spots and it's very difficult.

X

That's what that's my piece right. Thank you yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Y

You as well thanks for your comments now so hey guys, michael mandarioli,.

Y

1877 islington street my wife taylor over here um recent purchasers of that land and.

Y

um Peter, mr chairman, would you mind going to 366 for me, please sure thank you.

Y

There's there's our little parcel our humble about um you can call it sherburne island, maybe.

Y

Just kind of over enclosed by their land, but um we've only been there since late last year,.

Y

um Been in portsmouth since about august of 2021., and I just want the record to show that you know.

Y

Like peter or sorry, I, like andy and his family as well, we're definitely not opposed to this.

Y

At all, we think is, we think it's really cool the the drawings are awesome. It's.

Y

Really cool to review this, and have it be so close to our property and also.

Y

As well our our comments and our concerns, which I'm about to voice with you, have nothing to do.

Y

With the nature of the sport of skateboarding itself, um just there's no prejudice around.

Y

That at all, you have to take my word for that. um We'd have the same concerns if this was an extra.

Y

Ball field that had parking so close to to our property. I know that I just this is new to me.

Y

So I didn't know we couldn't ask questions, but um the hours of operation would be one concern for us.

Y

I know that there's no lights in the initial plan, but we did see the conduits on the on the plans.

Y

And I would be concerned about the operating hours and seeing some photonics plans for that.

Y

Light spillage, especially into the the back of our property, is the is the gate going to.

Y

Be closed after hours, so the parking lot cannot be used for for us. That would be a safety concern.

Y

Without a fence or any sort of barrier on, I'm not sure what direction it is. That um would that be.

Y

The north is up all right perfect. That makes it easy, so the east side of the property um of the.

Y

East side of the parking lot really we'd love to see some sort of fencing there, especially one that.

Y

Blocks light and blocks anyone from like, I would think six to eight feet to prevent people from.

Y

Hopping over it- and you know I double- dare you to go knock on that door and run back before they.

Y

Say anything um you know throwing beer bottles into our yard, trying to hit the house that sort.

Y

Of thing and again, this has nothing to do with the nature of the sport that we're talking about.

Y

Here it just has to do with the age group that we're going to be looking at, especially once.

Y

They get to drive their own vehicles and have access to something fun to do. Extracurricular.

Y

Activities that come with being of that age, um soundproofing on the fence would be something.

Y

Else that we think would be a great idea as far as the parking lot is concerned right there.

Y

um If possible, moving the parking as far away from that part of the property would be great. I think.

Y

That, if the intention is to eventually make this part of a trailhead for the b m railroad trail.

Y

Maybe just nestled in north of where the skate park is, it would be great to see you know the.

Y

Flow of traffic move over to there. You know any parking lot. Tailgating extracurriculars.

Y

Would be, you know, dealt with on the other side of the parcel. um Let me see if there's anything else.

Y

Yeah, just the safety safety of my of my family, there yeah with the parking lot there not knowing.

Y

You know wandering or trespassing onto that part of the of the private lands that are there.

Y

um Yeah I mean the trailhead would be great, we'd love to see this. You know this place used.

Y

For more than you know, I we haven't been there long enough to see a stump dump, of course, but.

Y

um You know that when we have a great relationship with the construction, firm, who's working back.

Y

There they respect, you, know the operating hours and um you know I would love to see that.

Y

You know the same be done for a recreational spot. I think that's all I got but again let.

Y

The record show this is really cool. We're not opposed to this we're just trying to make it.

Y

Something that you know is agreeable for for uh where we live awesome great. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Anyone else I don't see anyone else here.

A

Or on zoom, um so we'll close, the public comment portion for now um and open it back up to tack.

A

Any other comments, sorry, what it's worth. um I do think this will be very popular not only for, for.

M

Local, but for a lot of kids out of state, I was in that world for many years. I was a skater and.

M

um And we would travel wherever wherever we could go to find. The best buy and 25 spots seems to me.

M

You know extremely small, it is what it is. You show up, you can't get in there. You got to find someone.

M

Else to park, so that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be in the city, but I do believe that.

M

You know a concrete skate park, a lot of design and thought and energy went into this- that it will be.

M

Popular maybe not every day, but but I do believe that you'll overflow, that parking lot extremely.

M

Quickly and then to the point of the, um I actually have not looked at the traffic report and I'm.

M

Not sure how busy that intersection is, but um two lanes going out seems like will be ideal or maybe.

M

That's how it was depicted. I didn't see that, but one in and two out so you could go left or right.

M

um Something to consider so that when you're trying to leave you know it's not so miserable.

M

And then the other thing was regard to lighting, and that was a question I was going to put on.

M

My comments, but I just figured it was covered, but now perhaps it's true that there is no lighting at.

M

This stage, okay, um so then, of course, there would need to be hours set because there would be a.

M

Serious safety concern um that folks are skating, you know as it as it does. You know begin to get.

M

Dark I've been to a few parks and there's really adequate lighting, so you can stay after hours, but.

M

um Letting the hours would go along with the uh lighting with the hours and then lastly,.

M

Would be, and I I understand and respect the concern of of a butter with a commercial use.

M

You know right next to it and maybe even some you know some signage right: private property.

M

No trespassing, something that would um you know, make the the uh the folks that are going to the.

M

Park realize they've got to show some respect. um You know it should be obvious, it is, you know it.

M

Is to me, but but it's not to everyone. Sometimes just a little bit of signage goes a long way so.

M

That's all I have for comments. May I speak to a couple of those things sure, thanks um and if.

O

You don't know, I'm todd, henley, recreation director um so in terms of the lighting.

O

That uh that project is to be there there's currently a group. That's fundraising for that.

O

So it is not part of the initial project. It is something that we're hoping to have uh put in.

O

Later on, um however, it would be organized just like we do any of our athletic fields.

O

Or the tennis courts, so um the intention would probably be to have it stay on just like we do.

O

Our basketball courts and pickleball and things which should be until 10 pm and that wouldn't.

O

Necessarily be year-round depending on the weather, but that's the the usual schedule that we have.

O

um For our fields, the other thing was for parking with the rail trail being slated. I.

O

Believe this upcoming year to be paved from the downtown section out out there. I think it's just.

D

Going to be constructed, I think the paving might come the next year. Pavement might come.

O

The next year, so part of the reason why this site was was chosen by the committee was for.

O

The access to the rail trail and being able to have that pave paved area to downtown. So it was.

O

Accessible from the downtown area, so essentially kids could park anywhere. They could live anywhere.

O

In town and you're you're taking the rail trail to the park itself, so I think the intention was.

O

Never that there was going to be, you know there, the parking issue might be uh from out of town.

O

Folks, like you said, but I think the intention was most people were happy- that these kids, their.

O

Only access, you know, might not be cars, it's on skateboards and bikes so to be able to get there.

O

Safely and then one other just comment about you know being able to respect the property and.

O

Things like that, from working with this group of of adults and kids in the skateboard community.

O

They have, they have been really good about. You know they understand that this is. This is like.

O

You know a once in a lifetime opportunity for them to get a park like this, and so it is widely.

O

Been already talked about about, you know, policing themselves and, having like you know, these group.

O

Of people sort of be the the stewards of this park and uh looking out for property owners.

O

Around the corner and stuff like that because they know that you know if something goes wrong, then.

O

It's it's! It's going to be on them and they're going to lose out on this. This beautiful last.

O

um You know new park, so I just wanted to throw that in there too, foreign.

G

I can make a couple comments about the traffic I mean based on where the site is the the driveway.

G

Location is the best it can be because, as you move closer to the railroad you're going up.

G

The hill, where your sight lines are limited, so this location is the best possible site.

G

For this driveway for this parcel, um ideally you know if, if we had front of john islington.

G

You would come in off of visiting you'd have a driveway there, but we don't have that. So this.

G

Is the best location for a driveway and it's one of the comments we've made was make sure their.

G

Sight lines are open, you know the vegetation is cleared back, so you can see it coming out.

G

um You know we have two lanes merging into one. You know you're going to be using that right.

G

Turn lane to slow down to come into the site, so that will help alleviate some of that concern.

G

um I would not recommend two lanes coming out of the site, because then you have side by side.

G

You have vehicles, one blocking the view of the other it is, it will be take longer to get out.

G

In one line, but it's safer to do that in this location um yeah I mean it's not a great the.

G

Perfect spot for a driveway, but it's the best we can do with this site under the conditions.

G

G

A

Foreign feeling just are there revisions that we want to see.

A

With another submittal, I think I'm comfortable working with.

R

Side for access- I was probably is more being explained to me: yeah.

D

A lot of motion I would like to get some action from so I I don't have any further things to.

D

Come back, anybody else have anything to bring back. I feel like we've got an opportunity and.

D

There's some things to to maybe address or look at, but I don't have anything.

C

I agree: there's some water quality things that were brought up, that we still need to.

C

Address, but we can do that internally before we that's how the project go.

D

So I'd make a motion that we approve the site plan review, approved site plan review for the state park looks like.

A

I uh for the comments all in favor aye all right. Any pros motion carries.

A

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

K

Any other motion to adjourn all right, a second for your turn.