City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Technical Advisory Committee, 3 Jan 2023

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From YouTube: 1.3.2023 Technical Advisory Committee

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1.3.2023 Technical Advisory Committee

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All right here we go I'll call. The january 3rd 2023 site plan, review technical advisory.

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Committee meet to order I'll note that we have a quorum present.

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The first item of business is the approval of the december 15th minutes. Are there any.

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Changes or emotions approve minutes as written.

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All right, all in favor, aye aye minutes are approved um first item for old business, 375.

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Banfield road they've requested to postpone again I did hear from the applicant and they.

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Are still working with um des and epa on environmental stuff, so that brings us to items b and c which.

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I'll read in together and we can take up under one hearing the request of frederick day bailey.

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Iii and joyce nelson arnish and tuck realty corporation applicant for properties located.

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At 212, 214 and 216 woodbury avenue requesting preliminary and final subdivision approval.

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For a lot line, relocation to create the following lots proposed lot, one to be sixty thousand.

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Twenty five square feet of lot area, where twenty six thousand twelve square feet are.

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Existing proposed lot, two to be twelve thousand four hundred and seventy seven square feet.

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Of light area, where twenty nine thousand five hundred seventy one square feet are existing.

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And proposed lot three to be seven thousand nine hundred and seventeen square feet a lot.

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Area where twenty four thousand eight hundred and thirty six square feet are existing no.

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Changes in street frontage are proposed, said properties are located on assessor map 175.

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Lots one two and three and lie within the general residence. A district and item c is.

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The request of the same applicants and owners for properties located at 212 woodbury for.

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The site plan approval for the construction of an eight-unit condominium development consisting.

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Of four single-family living units, two two family structures, 18 parking spaces where.

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13 are required and associated stormwater utility and site improvements with access.

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To the development from boyd street, so properties are located on assessor map 175 lot, 1 and.

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Lie within the general residence aid district who's here to present. uh Thank you, uh joe.

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Coronati jones, the beach engineers with me, I have mike gerpy working for the applicant.

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I guess at the last couple of meetings we had a um kind of an offline meeting to discuss.

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The project it was a discussion on the the I mean two things with the drainage and the.

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Existing vegetation, so the the main changes that you see out here that we went out located.

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Every tree on the property, six inches, roughly six inches or greater and then added those.

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To the plan set and with that um you'll see obviously a lot a lot of additional trees.

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Mainly down the property lines and quite a few along woodbury ave around the existing.

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Houses that are to stay um so we added those in the plans and then we we modified the drainage.

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A little bit as well, we had uh previously talked about that. We were, um we were trying.

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To infiltrate 100 of the storm water from this site, but we have a which gave us a quite.

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A large detention pond um and we had a huge reduction in storm water. But to have that.

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Large detention pond also required us to remove more of the vegetation, so we still have similar.

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Size pond we pulled it off the northern property line which is adjacent to the hotel. You can.

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See this on sheet c3, I think it's that one there um up on the uh um up on this northern.

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Property line we're able to keep all of these trees and there's a lot of brush in this section.

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Here as well on and off lot so we pulled this corner of the the pond bin and we widened.

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The spillway, so the any water we do have flowing out of that pond, which is a anything above.

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A 10-year storm anything below a 10-year storm, it infiltrates anything above a 10-year storm.

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There would be some overflow and it would be spread out across this um width of a spillway.

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And then right about here is a is the catch basin where all the storm water from this.

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Site or I'd say, 80 percent of this site currently goes now is a into the same catch basin. So.

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We basically just widened that spillway and uh shrunk the pond a little, and then we also.

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We tweaked some grading, for instance in here around this existing or there's an existing.

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Home here that we're taking down these trees would remain all these trees can stay. The.

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Grade changes are, are minimal, we're also keeping all the all the tree line and brush in between.

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These homes here we previously had this proposed as to be planted areas but we're given the.

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Fact that there's so much existing vegetation there, with with the um this, makes sense to.

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Keep it and there's a couple other places towards boyd, um where we.

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The tree here that we eliminated a couple of landscaping trees around it as well as.

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One here so we have proposed landscaping all along here, but we put gaps in where the existing.

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Trees can be saved, um and that was pretty much the we also answered quite a few of the.

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City engineer comments from altus um regarding the uh where the sump pumps are going to go.

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Into the infiltration areas and all those items are outlined in the response to altus.

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And I know um we don't have a response yet back from them. Yet eric, I think, was gone most.

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Of last week, and um and so we'll be getting that, I assume shortly.

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And that was mostly it and then we've received your comments as well. Obviously, um uh just.

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The other day, if you want, I can go through those quickly. I won't go through every one.

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The there is a the requirement of a landscape architect is that a requirement we've been.

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Working with lee mcnaughton for quite a few years, she's, not a landscape architect, but.

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She's done quite a few of our plans.

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In this city, as well as others for us look, it up was that a standard was that a requirement.

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Inside review who's, whose comment was that mine? I don't think it's a. I don't think it's.

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A visitor family, I didn't even look- I just assumed you'd, have a landscape architect, prepare.

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A landscape she's, a landscape designer she's, just not licensed architect yeah. Then we have.

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We did submit the green building statement, we'll kind of just speak to the landscaping.

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While you're there, it uh sure do you mind if I just asked to put a comment on that, I.

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Think that's fine yeah, so I'm not doubting any of her credentials, but it it seemed odd.

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To me that she would just put a line of giant arborvitae from one end of the site to the.

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Other behind those two existing homes, it's kind of a model culture that you're proposing.

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There to act like a fence and it would seem to me- and maybe you can go back to her and.

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Ask if you're willing to consider it that you inters first in that wall of giant arborvitaes.

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Of which there are 19 of them here that you consider replacing, maybe every fourth or fifth.

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Arborvitae put in a an evergreen tree, you know just to break it up, so it's not just.

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Again, a wall is that between the long hair yeah, we can do that for sure. Yeah, okay,.

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Keep going then number two we did submit a green building statement back in. I think june.

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um So hopefully you have that I think it was uploaded. I resent it as well. So oh okay, yeah.

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And I received that just make sure that it's in every submission so that we have it available.

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And we know it's still out sure.

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And we'll talk to there's a mention of a sycamore tree in front of 216. uh woodbury.

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I'm not sure we're getting rid of any of the trees. You've got one in the front here. Oh.

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For the side right here, yeah yeah- I see it now uh yeah we can go to the the tree committee.

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For that then, while you're on that plan, I don't think you want to plan a norway. Well.

D

Maybe norway's bruce is fine down at the entrance yeah. That's all right! That's a new tree right.

D

You're, looking at the existing I'm looking at the demolition, yeah yeah, one yeah, that's.

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An always spruce, yeah kind of maple yep.

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I think everything else was.

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Fairly straightforward: what are you doing during construction to protect these trees before you put the wells.

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In you're going to put snow fencing around them at the drip line or something that prevent.

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Them from being damaged, yeah we've noticed a lot of tree well plans here we have notes.

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About uh protecting trees with the fencing, so I do it at the drip line. If you could, if.

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It doesn't say that snow fence or hurricane fence would be located at the drip line of any trees, opposed to be.

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Preserved or retained yeah, it's no note 13 on l1 says that exactly okay with the drip.

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And we can certainly add notes about a lot of these landscaping and irrigation items.

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And the timing of the plantains and the.

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I don't think any of those are problems, as well as the sidewalk and.

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There was a request to extend that, obviously to the next sidewalk, which would we'll add.

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That, as notes, so where is that yeah where's the next sidewalk it's right at the hotel.

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Property to the north, it's just off our sheet so up here: yeah, okay, beyond our survey, but.

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We can add notes saying to extend it. It's not far beyond our survey.

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I think it ends on the other side of their drive curb cut entrance. How does someone living.

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Here, cross woodbury to get downtown or on thornton. Is there a crosswalk at the at boyd.

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Road, that's not shown on the planet. I just want to down the street. That's just about.

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The sheep, okay and they'll likely be one at thornton street in the very near future. Street's.

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Going to be under construction, this spring.

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Presumably that's across from the proposed to family because peak the shape of that driveway.

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I'm not sure what side of the street mark is planning, but I think that's the sign. There's.

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One at the uh the manor as well- oh there is right there just a little bit further south.

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Yeah, although there's no sidewalk to it.

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That's all we have.

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Is anyone from technique any more clarification on any of the comments or so you're in agreement.

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With all the changes in the comments, yes,.

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Very last one suggests a redesign though, so I don't think that's one that we would agree.

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But other than that, yes.

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Any questions from tech members, if not we'll open the public hearing, anyone from the public wish to speak to this application.

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Let me check zoom.

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No one on zoom all right, we'll close the public comment portion and open up for discussion.

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Seems like we're still waiting for altus to do a review of this latest changes to the.

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Is the the overflow under the adjacent property, although they wouldn't need such a big detention.

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Basement they'd have so much new impervious, but it's better than it was. I think they took.

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That rip rap away and made it more of a cheap flow across the whole side. There.

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Would rights be needed to flow across that property for anything larger than 10-year.

K

C

We have existing flow there now, so we're allowed to maintain our existing flow paths. We can't.

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Increase certainly, uh but we're actually incredibly decreasing it. Okay,.

B

This eco paver, so there's one comment on here: that's your note. That's on the grading and.

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Drainage plan c3 that allows for eco paver slash standard asphalt. Is that just because.

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You don't know the ground conditions there. What's the yeah? No, it shows the the difference.

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Between the two eco pavers and and then their standard asphalt, so you're not you're, not.

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Doing this driveway here we are not no. Does it not make sense to do all four of those.

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No, that one's in two two into the water table due to the cut there's a little bit of a cut.

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In the slope, the other three are in um in slight fills and we need separation to groundwater.

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Separation to seasonal high water table with the treatment course of the eco pavers, so.

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We couldn't do them on any of the other driveways, so we had to design around that. So how about.

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Doing papers that aren't eco pavers, so they all look the same.

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Visually I'm presuming these pavers look like pavers, not asphalt, right, correct, they're, not.

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Stamped asphalt, it's real pavers with the gaps in the middle and you know, but to do.

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Something so they're all consistent myself. Can you do the pavers and then drain it under.

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Drain it instead of the you know, you know typical bed of stone or whatever you need.

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Under it, let's do it put those same pavers but capture the stormwater or let it run onto.

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The site like it's going to do now, yeah, the only place would be is in the under the stone.

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You know would be to create a stone uh area under them, then line it and under drain. It.

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uh Which we probably could do especially on that floor and I think next point I mean five.

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We I think we could do that, because we have a pipe running right through anyways yeah.

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That'd be a good idea, otherwise you drive down that street and that one will stand up.

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Pretty dramatically: okay, how are you planning on water metering? These duplexes? Is there going to be a water.

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Meter room for each building yeah, we we sort of um yeah. We brought all the water into the.

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Same side of the building, uh well, the fire having a little fire room uh for the sprinklers.

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On the sides- and then we would have, we were thinking individual meters. We should be in.

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The same room, no, I guess we were. We had water shutoffs going to each unit separate from.

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The um how do you get there, though I don't see it. Sorry if you uh dave, if you look up.

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See here you can see uh this is c4 there's so there's a shutoff the front of each of.

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These garages, but the water wouldn't go into the garage it could I mean it's like a domestic.

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Normal domestic human space, what would go under a slab into uh into the basement in.

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A sleeve or into these donut basements, but uh they could they could come if you want.

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Them to come in under the deck get into there. We also you can go in under the garage floor.

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But you just need to put in the sleeve, and that needs to be detailed. All right. We have.

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We also have the a fire room right here on the right side: yeah. That would be the best.

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Spot because it's already gonna have to have heat, so we could bring all the services.

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I mean all the both shut offs and the fire service all into that one yeah, especially.

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If you're not going to have basements in those two units, then right and that's probably the.

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Best possible solution right, yeah, it's easier. We can save some digging in the front area.

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You know the yards and we can bring everything in. We just have to plumb the water through.

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One unit into the other what you're gonna have to do for the fire service anyway, right.

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For the fire yeah so.

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I'm not sure we told you we're gonna need the the water easement thing for leak, detection.

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And yeah that was either a note or it's already on the okay utility plan.

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You still like the shutoffs in the pavement area right, not enough. Generally speaking, we.

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Put them in grass areas all right.

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um I know we went through this on another project, but um domestic valves need to be.

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Painted blue and fire valves need to be painted red on the caps recall that, oh really, I don't.

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Know if I've ever heard that one so domestic drive remember we did that project. I do not.

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Do the pictures, no okay, it was mike's, uh so valves water valves are blue yeah. The caps.

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The haste box caps, yeah blue, is domestic red. Is fire services.

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Usually, the blow-off is two inch two inch lower hydra, not a one inch at the end of the.

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Road there yeah the other of maine.

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We included that one too sorry.

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Okay, basically just waiting for altus and to make sure all the comments that you just.

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Go get addressed, hopefully we can get through this next week.

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Is that emotion statement I wanted to be a motion yeah or I'll, make a motion that we postpone it until the next meeting address all office comments and the comments we have tonight. Second, all.

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Right all in favor motion carries thanks.

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Foreign item d under o business, the request of one market square llc owner for property.

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Located at one congress, street requesting site plan review review approval for the partial.

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Demolition and expansion of the existing structure to construct a three-story building with 58.

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780 square feet of gross floor area, 12, 080 square foot, building footprint, 13 parking.

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Spaces and associated on-site and off-site improvements said property is shown on assessor.

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Map 117 lot 14 and lies within the cd4 cd5, downtown overlay and historic districts. Hello.

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Good afternoon the chairman members of the technical advisory committee, john shagman,.

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From ambit engineering, haley ward here today also with me, is mark mcnabb, the developer.

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Tracy kozak project architect and terence parker project landscape, architect, we've came.

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To the november of technicalized, recruiting meeting and addressed as a part of the submission.

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Of lengthy list of comments and um made a full presentation, then the plans have not.

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Changed considerably other than addressing the comments, except that the uh as we discussed.

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At the november attack, the off-site improvements would will be a separate uh process going.

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Forward for the public streetscape improvements, I got a small list of comments and I can go.

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Over those, if all right, please thank the committee. The first was that the uh to move the eight.

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Inch valve connection to the water on ladd street, so it is not directly over the sewer.

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Main- and that is shown on this revised sheet c4, it's a very small change, but make that.

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Change and um show details on connection to four inch main on lad, and so in that same.

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Area and if you want to bring up the c4.

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Just to point out the area that it shows on the plan.

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Foreign, so we move the valve over and then we added some detail references here and we can work.

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With the department on just those detail, references we need some updating. um Those are the only.

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Two comments: I did want to point out that one of the comments was that we adjust our.

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Sewer details to conform to the city sewer details, we didn't have time to thoroughly.

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Review but we did get thankfully, from uh thanks to the public works department, some standard.

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Details I included that sheet in the set where d6 would be and we've had the time to remove.

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That specific sheet against our previous sewer standard sheet and there's a few minor changes.

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That we would make to the our sewer standard sheets to bring them all in compliance and.

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Alignment, so if you have any questions.

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Okay, you're all set john. Yes, any other comments from tech members.

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Foreign all I wanted to do with you at some point before this gets to the planning board.

D

Is review the the zoning analysis that's shown on one of the site plans just looks like a.

D

Couple of things don't quite jive with the new zoning, I don't see any red flags, uh the.

D

Open space is important to make sure we're on the same page as to how you achieve it.

D

You have enough land area. The issue I want to work through you with you on is the amount.

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Of the open space that's porous or non-imperious, it looked like there, maybe wasn't quite enough.

D

Shown on the plan, but there are opportunities to get it with using force pavement. Maybe.

D

In particular places so apologies, you didn't get that in the list last week, but I just.

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Reviewed the plans this morning, so no major issues just want to make sure we sit down.

D

The building height, for example, is 45 feet here and 35 is listed in the table on the.

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Left so little things like that, let us know when you want us to come over as soon as as soon as you're, ready.

L

Okay, a couple things um now that we're separating uh yes yeah off-site work. Looking at trying.

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To figure out how that can is going to impact our access, the high street, with in its current.

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Configuration with the parking do we know what to clear width is, or the sidewalk to.

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The side of the parking on there with the car parked there yeah yeah it's. I think, 14.

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H

Oh, I want to see a tractor and template or something that we can get our the ladder. Trucks.

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In the corner of haven- and I.

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With the plan, with the parking going away and the sidewalks being flushed that wasn't.

L

A concern right, yep yep, I'm not sure how we do it now. We still plan to do all that. Yeah.

B

Yeah, but we're not changing any of that. That's all, and that would all be done before we would.

E

Get a building permit or be finished. What we're doing, though, is just giving the lengthy.

E

Time we've been working all year trying to get consensus and it just was recently thrown.

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Out that the better way to do it would be to separate it. But in terms of our commitment.

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To the off-site commitments, dropping all the curbs doing all that we're still saying we're.

E

Doing that and paying that, um is there a way to memorialize, just in case that doesn't go.

L

Through yeah, I think that's the way to do it if something doesn't work out as mark just.

D

Proposed then, then, the turning templates and things would need to be re-reviewed. So, let's.

D

God forbid we get there so so I mean I would recommend because it's you know we're planning.

E

To do such extensive improvements to high and layout and haven to fleet, I would just.

E

Recommend that we put that condition on it that the off-site site improvement plan.

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Is mutually approved by the city and us and then you can layer any other conditions which.

E

Would be in this case that the kurds go away so that it meets the fire department's needs.

E

But that's all going to be a condition. The off-site one so just layer it the other site.

E

Plan just layer, it yeah, I mean we could do the condition instead of being specific about.

L

Certain items like curves going away, you said it means access requirements for fire departments.

L

Perfect, I think I think that's the best way to do it, because there was so much confusion.

E

Like when you go to the city council for what they need to approve, what does staff need.

E

To approve what does the planning board need to approve? Should the public be weighed into.

E

It the butters and that's when the latest recommendation was: let's give us all the breathing.

E

Rooms and just put that in a separate conditional plan for all that, but that allows us to proceed.

E

Forward because there's significant investment in all that so for us to kind of just be la.

E

La land is hard, so as long as there's some condition that we will have our accesses happy.

L

L

L

They would be connection which storage, where the parking behind the parking and look at.

E

What you're referencing.

E

Is it storage or the trash it's? There are two fairly decent size under the old village.

L

In the front, uh pb a0 pba zero up in hong kong, yeah nearest to congress street that.

E

Would just be storage for that retail in the front? Whoever occupies that front of the building.

E

You are red stare in that corner.

M

You cannot fire uh barrier enclosure around it.

E

And it's its current shoes now so we're actually improving that.

I

I

Street light polls, I'm still hopeful that we can possibly get some building mounted.

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Lighting on the two older buildings that you're renovating in lieu of those poles, because.

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I just can't prove those because they're just too, um and I understand that, there's a whole.

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Design process- that's still going to happen with the streetscape, but um I'm going to hold.

I

Back on approval of that whole system absolutely agree with you. We we are committed to doing.

E

The catenary lights and I think that when we can point to brick market and show people.

E

How successful they are? um You know we're hopeful that the city west will prove that.

E

We'll approve that well, looking specifically at the at the sconce lady on the new building.

I

I'm wondering you know, obviously those probably aren't appropriate on the two older looking.

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Buildings, but maybe pick something that maybe would be appropriate. They would serve the.

I

Same function, sure- um and that would be great- I would like to have no street lights at all.

I

I agree on that whole side if we can avoid it right on board on that, we'll pick something.

L

Up for that, for sure.

E

Yeah, I don't want to get lost that you know we're we're committing to do substantial improvements.

E

In highland haven court, you know, I'm sure it'll be three million dollars anyhow and.

E

I'm not selling a price limit on it, so we we want to be very intentional in that process.

E

And we wanted to include everything we've been talking about and wherever that journey.

E

L

You know that fixture, would you want it to be a totally different, fixture or yeah? I think.

I

It should be completely different yeah because that's something appropriate, but really different.

I

Right something it doesn't look like a the portsmouth light is more of a 10 foot tall.

L

I understand street mode gotcha foreign.

A

Questions at this time.

A

Anyone from the public like to make a comment on this application.

A

uh Let me make sure no one's on zoom.

A

All right, we'll close the public comment portion and open it back up for further discussion.

A

I don't think we have anything left to to go over on this right. I didn't move to recommend.

J

Approval second, um just a couple of stimulation right. Well, I think uh to what mark was saying.

D

Earlier uh and patrick, something to the effect of prior to issuance of a building permit.

D

The proposed offside improvements for high and land streets in haven court shall be reviewed.

D

And approved by the by the authorized city entity to ensure building pedestrian vehicular.

D

And emergency vehicle safety- something like that number two that the applicant will meet.

D

With the planning staff to clarify the zoning compliance table, as shown on whatever page.

D

That is, I can't remember, seeing two.

E

Two and three the light fixture will be: what's that gonna be three sorry c3 and the light.

D

Fixture will be substituted to the pull, pull lights will be removed in a suitable building.

L

Mounted light will be somebody getting that proposed. So that's number three.

D

Did somebody second, that I think they did right yep [music] and I guess number four.

I

Just for clarity, just uh the uh any utility work that's necessary to uh to actually construct.

I

A fully operational building needs to be approved by the department of public works.

I

All right anything else, just to be clear. That's.

I

Kind of thing sort of yes.

L

All right, we have a motion in a second with four stipulations: yep conditions, any other.

A

Discussion all in favor uh all right, any opposed motion carries. Thank you.

E

A

All right on to new business and I'll read items a and b together, another request of.

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Peace development authority owner for property located at 80, rochester avenue for site plan.

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Approval for the construction of a 209, 750 square foot, advanced, manufacturing, building.

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Including 1845 square feet of office space, two parking areas, two loading dock areas, minor.

A

Realignment of a portion of rochester avenue and associated site improvements consisting.

A

Of underground utilities, landscaping lighting and a storm water management system said properties.

A

Shown on assessor map 308 lot 1 and lies within the peas industrial district item b. Is the.

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Request of peace, development authority owner for property located at 80, rochester avenue.

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Requesting a lot line adjustment to add 22 251 square feet to the existing lot as part.

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Of a realignment of rochester avenue for proposed lot size of 496 584 square feet, said property.

A

Is located on assessor map 308 lot 1 and is in the peas industrial district.

A

Great how's everybody today all right.

N

Thank you good afternoon, I'm patrick crimmins with time bond, um just a quick intros for.

N

The team sitting beside me here is neil hansen from time bond. The project manager um to his.

N

Right is uh john stebbins, representing the development team. There's two other members.

N

Of the development team, uh behind them, evan, tormy and joe bohegan and also behind me- is.

N

Mike mates with the pda.

O

Thanks um so proposed project that peter wrote read in there is this uh 209 000 square foot.

O

Plus advanced manufacturing facility, the existing site is, is currently vacant. uh There's some.

O

Old remnants of former parking lots and drive aisles on the site and the former buildings.

O

Had been previously demolished by the pda a number of years ago, um the proposed site.

O

Plan uh so there's there's kind of two separate uh loading and parking areas on the north.

O

End of the site, um we're showing the 99 space parking lot and then truck loading um loading.

O

Bays and then similar on the south end of the site is another surface parking lot of.

O

48 spaces uh both of these parking areas also have areas identified for potential future.

O

Parking should the end user require some additional spaces on site. uh We did calculate the the.

O

Required parking uh based on the pda regulations um for uh employees on the largest shift.

O

Using sort of an assumed uh employee count for for this proposed use uh that arrived.

O

At the the total of 147 spaces that we're showing here, this project also did receive.

O

A variance from the zba for the front yard setback um the other item that was right on.

O

The record on the for the lot line, revision uh um between submitting these plans and today.

O

um We did some further research on that and, along with the pda, determined that we will.

O

No longer be pursuing that lot line revision uh instead, we'll be seeking another variance.

O

For a rear yard setback um that that is tied into one of the comments we received related.

O

To the city's drainage infrastructure that runs along that existing uh rear, right-of-way.

O

Line um this project will still require a subdivision as due to the way the pda and.

O

Their lease lease uh these plans work. This parcel needs to be broken off of the overall.

O

Pda parcel to be leased to the applicant, um which will go through the subdivision process.

O

And it will be the or use the existing right-of-way lines as they are today. If you want to go.

O

To the next probably flip a couple more of the drainage plan, please thank you. So the.

O

Grading and drainage for the site so, as I mentioned before, the site's currently unoccupied.

O

And has no storm water treatment, so the proposed system here would collect all of the storm.

O

Water from both the north loading and parking areas, the building and the south loading and.

O

Parking areas and route them into an underground detention system. Under this, the south parking.

O

Lot uh that would then go through a uh jellyfish filtration unit uh prior to discharging back.

O

Into the the city system, this project will require an alteration terrain permit through.

O

Nhdes uh to review you know the stormwater treatment on this site utilities for the site.

O

um Typical water sewer, electric infrastructure and those are shown on sheet c104. So that's.

O

A brief overview of the project and we'd like to go through the the comments that were sent.

O

To us at the end of last week, um so the the first comment was: uh please confirm. This project includes a lot line. Adjustment.

O

And not the creation of a new parcel so, as I've previously mentioned that that lot line.

O

Revision shown on these plans were no longer be pursuing, uh but we will still need to go.

O

Through the subdivision process for the lease area, uh rochester ave pavement is too far.

O

Deteriorated for the mill and paid process, the road needs reclamation fortified, a new.

O

Pavement stratham and newfield streets need to be reconstructed as well. That's we acknowledge.

O

That we can update the plans to show those two changes. uh Common three is related to.

O

The the lease line and a the drainage system, um so we have the the existing right away.

O

Line does kind of run right over the top of the city's drain line. uh It does cross onto.

O

The site in a couple spots, um so we have no issues providing the city a license or easement.

O

Or whatever the proper um conveyances for that that drain line that sits on the existing.

O

Parcel, I believe it's pda, not the city you'll, just see, if probably stating things for we.

I

Have the duty maintain, but we don't know it right, so the license would be too back to.

O

Pda, okay, gotcha, um so uh comment for uh pcb 18 should tie into the street drainage and not the site.

O

Drainage, so we had originally shown it that way and received a comment from the pda to.

O

Connect it into the on-site system, so I don't. I don't know if mike, if you want to speak.

O

To that at all, or the only reason, I'm sorry, my name is michael made. Some director of engineering.

P

And peace development authority, the only reason you get into a microphone please.

H

The only reason we requested to tie that catch basin into the site drainage system was so.

P

That it would get stormwater treatment. It's the only reason.

P

Originally it didn't have treatment went straight into the system, so so we have no issue either.

O

Way, um putting back out was or leaving it as we show it. um I don't know who makes that decision.

O

um Drain manhole 1925 is likely a lot not large enough to accept such a large new core.

O

Please confirm this design will work by investigating the structure with the stormwater division.

O

From dpw, uh so we have no problem doing that investigation. um The existing pipe going to.

O

That structure is a 36 inch rcp, so we will have to expand the opening a little bit, but.

O

um We anticipated we'd be able to do that, but we'd have no problem going out and.

O

Coordinating that investigation work to just to confirm that yeah, the 60 inch pipe requires.

I

A six foot core, so it's a.

I

It's a much bigger hole doesn't seem like a lot, but.

O

Sidewalk should be at least five and a half feet wide, preferably six feet wide. um Assuming.

O

Pdas has no objections to that. We can. We can make that revision. um The five foot sidewalk.

O

Width is is what we've typically done out at the pda on other projects out there.

O

And the sidewalk was added at the request of the pda, um along with the the two crosswalks.

O

On new hampshire ave as part of the preliminary process, uh which those those come up in a.

O

Couple of further comments as well.

O

um Third party review of stormwater design is location of pre-treatment outlet, structure.

O

After detention based inappropriate and his treatment prior to detention, basin, more appropriate.

O

So, as I mentioned previously, we do need a an alteration terrain permit for this. This.

O

Project, so you know we, the stormwater will be reviewed by the state. um Obviously, the.

O

City is, is within their, you know, means to request an additional third party review, but.

O

We feel the nhds review is would serve that purpose. The jellyfish treatment post attention.

O

Is the same configuration we've used uh on multiple other projects within the city? Most.

O

Recently, the wanza parking expansion project has the same configuration along with a number.

O

Of others are just detaining underground you're, not infiltrating correct. That's the difference.

O

We're not there's no infiltration alonso or portsmouth hospital, or here or here correct.

I

If you're infiltrating, you should be clean before you infiltrate, but you're, not so you're.

I

Okay, well, we have pre-treatment upstream in this as well. There's pre-treme and upstream.

O

Of the detention detained no infiltration um and then per the prior approvals through.

O

Ds when we do the the post detention treatment, we use the water quality flow to size. The.

O

Treatment unit, as opposed to the the one inch storm um state sizes, domestic and fire services, uh we'll we can work with the the project.

O

Architect to get those sizes added to the plans, um provide fire flow or flow tests to.

O

The existing water main those can be completed um has there has the city done any testing.

O

Recently out there we would give you the results. If we had okay, we require you to get your.

I

Own results: okay, uh 10, provide vehicle, speed data for new hampshire ave to confirm adequacy.

O

Of sight lines at driveways and to determine need for additional safety measures, both crosswalks.

O

um So, as I mentioned that we had added those crosswalks at the request of the pda that.

O

That ties the site into their existing put history and infrastructure. That's on the opposite!.

O

Side of new hampshire as far as site distances go new hampshire ave is a very long straight.

O

Road and this site is situated right near the middle of that that long straight stretch.

O

Which is about a mile in length, so we don't anticipate any issues with with site distances.

O

At the driveways for vehicles or pedestrians, um additionally, the traffic studies being.

O

Peer-Reviewed at the request of the pda, and is that is that currently being reviewed? Yes,.

O

Yes, so that's already being reviewed uh by a third party um speeds are important out.

J

There, because, as you mentioned, it's a long straight away, yeah um and then similarly with.

O

With 11 pedestrian counts, vehicle turning movement counts at intersections of new hampshire.

O

Ave with new fields and stratum to document the need for the crosswalks um again, the crosswalks.

O

Were added the request, the pda and- and this is already under under review by by vhb.

O

So I'm not sure when we'll when we'll get those comments, but um I'm sure they they may.

O

May have similar concerns that we can address at that time. um So those are the comments.

O

We received prior to the meeting and, if there's any other comments or questions, be happy to.

O

J

One one question about the building layout: it looks like there's more room if you're looking at it to the right. Looking at the long way, it looks like there's more room to.

J

The end of the site that way, I'm just wondering why you couldn't push things down that give.

J

Yourself, a little bit more room in your truck turning areas. um So my understanding of the.

O

Building design is, it has to do with the the base spacing between the columns and if we.

O

Added um one way or the other, I don't think the geometry works with with the parking layout.

O

I know we looked at a number of configurations prior to kind of landing on this. One.

O

And we we do have um turning templates that show the trucks coming in and out of the site.

O

And being able to turn around, it just seems like if you took the whole thing and just shifted it, there's a potential for.

Q

Additional parking needs by the end user, so we wanted to keep that uh that area available.

Q

For additional parking, yeah where's the front of the building uh be a long new hampshire ave is going to have.

O

100 amp drive address, then yes, yeah likely the egress stores you are shown on elevations.

L

I think, but uh should show the walkways from the doors out to the sidewalk public ways.

L

L

I don't think we need the truck coming template for the parking lot.

L

Okay, just probably just take it out because it if, if we were to have it, we would need the parking.

L

Spaces in there- and I don't think it would work, but we don't really need to get the truck in there. We have access on both streets on the long sides of the building, so we're good.

L

And he hazmat associated undetermined, okay, we don't know who the end user is yet. Okay,.

Q

Right, so what you're saying is all these doors need connections to the sidewalk system? Yes,.

L

They don't all have to have their own, they can have, they can be a common yeah. It can.

L

Be a common one that runs along the building yeah so basically like you'd like a sidewalk.

Q

Along each side of the building.

I

Yeah, it's a sidewalk in new hampshire, have yep okay, one or the other.

A

Any other comments.

A

Anyone from the public like to speak on this application.

A

All right, we'll close the public comment portion and open it back up for further discussion.

K

Should catch basin 18 romanus design, then running through site, stormwater trim.

I

Makes the applicant forever responsible for the pda's stormwater.

I

It's under all our catch wasting suit.

I

Anyway, should it be eliminated, then it's dead middle of the driveway sure. What's going to catch.

K

Yo, did you did you look at the I I never went to rochester street and um does that catch.

I

Me isn't even necessary reason.

O

So is the other one in the other driveway, the other one ended up there. I believe the.

O

Other one's replacing an existing catch basin.

I

The next submission and just see if you can get rid of those kids or if they should move.

R

To the corners of the driveway, so they're more appropriate yeah.

L

Yeah, I guess I don't have a problem with them tying into the just a little background information.

P

On what we're trying to do there yeah, um I'm not sure who's familiar who isn't, but we recently.

P

Had a settlement with the conservation law foundation for certain items on the trade.

P

Port and one of our agreements was that we were going to reduce impervious coverage on.

P

The trade for it by five acres and any new impervious surface that we put down that isn't.

P

Treated counts against us on that settlement, yeah. So that's why we're trying to get as.

P

Much new pavement treated as possible yeah, so just a little background. So you understand.

P

What we're trying to do? No, I understand that like, but this is a new payment. Well, it's not.

P

I don't know we thought there was a little. The last time I looked at it, looked like there.

P

Was a little on-site water running out into the into the road.

I

Maybe there's existing paved area that we're talking about.

O

There would be, but we could probably shift that catch basin onto the site, we'll look.

N

At as far as the next submission yeah just look at the grading and see I just putting.

I

Catch basins in the middle driveways always a bad idea.

I

And I assume eversource has already looked at this and.

I

Sent us an emails from somebody saying that they looked at the design and they agree with.

I

The polls that you've picked and that there's adequate power supply for the building of.

I

This magnitude yeah, I believe there is a wheelchair water from eversource in the and there's a.

I

Similar letter from the gas company saying they don't need to upgrade yes, their gas man.

I

All the way down to hampshire avenue to feed the building, and, yes, I actually said in the.

I

In the letter, it says that they have the ability to serve the building without running a new.

I

Gas main all the way down here: does it say that wrap it in front of me because that's.

I

What we're going to be looking for that's the letter.

A

Are you okay, not requiring a third party for traffic, or I think they said they're having.

J

One done right right so that that'd be good. Maybe they could just coordinate with you.

I

With hp, yes, yes, that would be good. Okay. uh I still have a little question as to what.

J

Type of facility- this is, it says, advanced manufacturing, but in the traffic study it.

J

Says that it uses innovative technologies in the manufacturing process, which, in turn.

J

Reduces the number of employees needed, but then you say you may need more parking spaces.

J

So the two things don't seem to diver, it's very up to you eric. um We don't know who the.

Q

User is yet we've been marketing it to advanced manufacturing companies and what advanced.

Q

Manufacturing is, is you know just it's not it's the mechanized manufacturing not necessarily.

Q

The hand assembly, widgets right and so the users that we have had talked to have required.

Q

Similar parking needs to pdas report requirements, we haven't signed any of them yet and we just.

Q

Wanted to leave our options open if someone needed you know a larger, a heavier office.

Q

Use maybe the office component is, you know, rather than 5 000 square feet, 10 or 15 000.

Q

They would be more office employees just something to consider when they look at that trip generation and the traffic study.

J

Too yeah, okay,.

I

City, storm water rules, don't apply to the pda, correct peter; no, they have their own. They.

B

Have their own straw model so the whole advanced stormwater section of the ordinance that we.

I

Have now doesn't apply, this bill doesn't apply to them, no, okay, no, they have their own, but.

P

In our rules, we require filtration or infiltration in this case filtration with the jellyfish.

P

Filters what they're providing.

A

Do you think you'll have the subdivision the new subdivision application in for before.

A

The next submission, or is that yeah something that's in the works yeah we can include it.

N

We do have to go to the zba to get the program.

H

All right motion to continue yeah, okay,.

N

Thank you, no problem, more jobs, yeah! No, I don't think so. Yeah really nice! Oh thank you for sure.

Q

Yeah yeah, so you know he left us and uh he left some a great place.

Q

Nice to meet you yeah, likewise, all right uh item c, the request of nicole gusto and david.

A

Sinclair ownership property located at 765 middle street, requesting site plan approval.

A

For a fourth dwelling unit and a new detached structure with a three-bay garage, including.

A

Stormwater management improvements, expanded driveway utility services and landscaping.

A

Said property is located on a sister map, 148 lot 37 and lies within the general residence.

A

A and historic districts are you good afternoon. Let you back across the border. It was a long wait.

S

Not easy to get back into the states from canada for the record eric weinberg with all.

S

This engineering, ken ramsey um david, sinclair and marissa seoul from our office, I'm here.

S

To discuss uh 365 middle street, I'm mr sinclair is proposing to construct a fourth dwelling.

S

Unit on the property he has single-family home on the property. He has two apartment.

S

Carriage house and he's proposing a garage with an apartment above on the in october.

S

uh We were before the zoning board of adjustment received relief for where density and setback.

S

Variances for this project to allow us to proceed. uh Jen is working on the um the architecture.

S

I'm working with the hdc through the approval process and we're here today to discuss the.

S

Engineering aspects for for tac at one time it was, uh it was two parcels it was merged.

S

At one time in the past and a pool was constructed on the say, the northerly parceled, the vacant.

S

Parcel and because of that, and it's since been removed because of that the um lot merger.

S

Ruled on does not apply, so we could not unmerge those the parcels. uh So what we're proposing.

S

Is to keep them as a single parcel. Put the four on units on the property maintain the.

S

Access on off of lincoln the lesser travel road and on maintain that private feeling.

S

By having that fence remain there and keep the streetscape of middle as well, there are.

S

No wet ones on the property or within 100 feet um we're proposing to remove the existing.

S

Driveway and reconstruct it with pavers on and I'm going to jump ahead. It was the battle.

S

I lost during the design phase where I said that the city is going to want us to have.

S

Pavement up to the property line and the design team said no. We want to have pavers up to.

S

The street I said, okay, we'll put that on the plan and we'll see where it goes. So I want.

S

To be a comments, so we will make that revision as part of one of the comments uh we did complete.

S

A detailed drainage study on the property um we're adding a lot of treatment where there.

S

Was none uh the back side of the uh of the new building will have a stone drip edge on.

S

The runoff from the front side of the building, the driveway side, we'll have gutters go into.

S

A stone infiltration basin and then have an overflow into a depressed area, while I'm in.

S

An infiltration, surface infiltration pond um would that be effective, um impervious on the lot will be decreased on and that will.

S

Be decreasing the peak rate of runoff leaving the site in regards to the uh the comments.

S

That we received after business hours on the beginning of a holiday, I appreciate getting.

S

Those thank you.

S

That the proposed in garage and deck on and garage and on in residence is 2200 square.

S

Feet of surface surface area adding in the deck is 22 on 48 67 and the overall impervious.

S

That in our or building area coverage in our computation remains the same at the 23 percent.

S

The green building statement indicates that there will be a reduction of site superbius.

S

Now typographical error, it's actually the impervious lately goes up, but it's the effective.

S

Impervious untreated surface areas behind.

S

Item three: I would like us to install a catch basin at the low point of the driveway on.

S

You know the parking space up there at elevation 23.75. We have no issue with that in in its.

S

General concept, um we would prefer to have it as a leaching structure. There's a small.

S

Amount of flow going to it and there's mature landscaping along lincoln that I'm in order.

S

To connect that into the city, drainage, I think, would be more disruptive than productive, so.

S

We'd like to make that a leaching structure: fine, if that's okay, with with the board on.

S

Also connecting our closed drainage and infiltration drainage system, I I don't think that it's.

S

Really necessary on when we ran the calculations on you know in the 50-year storm our highest.

S

uh Elevation of water surface is 0.2 below the high point of the uh the device and then.

S

We ran the drainage computation today looking at well, if the drainage infrastructure failed.

S

Completely and there was no infiltration in either the reservoir under the pavement or.

S

In the surface on the pond would not, over top even in a 10-year storm, going beyond the.

S

10-Year storm there would be would be some discharge, so we feel that as design is pretty.

S

Conservative and that I'm connecting those devices would not be productive. Additionally,.

S

There was another conservative measure in our design is that the existing single-family.

S

Home has gutters and all the gutters are actually connected to drywalls, so we didn't model it.

S

That way, but every one of those gutters off the main house and I think, two-thirds of the.

S

Gutters from the carriage house fully infiltrated so our computation, both pre and post development.

S

Inflate the amount of storm water that generated from the site, so we have more storage on in.

S

Our infiltration basins and what we've computed.

S

We will provide a one-inch domestic water line to make the feed the main house and then.

S

We'll continue that on to the um service, the exist, uh the new garage and apartment as far.

S

As sizing the water service for the fire protection- uh and it will be need to be a separate service.

S

What what we believe and what we haven't brought a mechanical engineer in yet so what we'd.

S

Like to be have that as a condition that it would be on prior to getting a building permit,.

S

If that's acceptable to the town city does that show somewhere.

A

So you got to bring that into the existing structure so that you can then feed the secondary.

I

Building from there, what was that dave you're going to bring, since you have to redo the.

I

Water service from the street to the principal street yeah, I believe anyway, are you going.

I

To bring both mains and the principal structure so that, if you want fire protection of the.

I

Future, the mains already there.

S

Into the main home, yeah yeah, we could do it in that manner.

H

Okay, so just for clarification are you asking? The line will be shown, but the size of it.

L

Would be what should we determined later? Yes,.

H

um I mentioned the uh the asphalt to the edge of the right away and just as a clarification.

S

Or note on mr sinclair lives in the large residence he rents out, the two carriage houses.

S

And he does not have any intention of selling these making them into condos. This is an apartment.

S

And he'll be using at least one of the bays of the garage, I'm think, I'm out of words do.

S

You have any questions of jen or david all the time. I didn't see anything about the comments.

I

About filling in the second driveway off of lincoln, what was that? Oh yeah? It was in my.

I

Car yeah closing the other card. Oh yeah, yeah.

T

S

You'll, remove it and replace sorry, never mind good. Thank you.

I

With the the textured surface, coming up to.

D

The back of the sidewalk you, you rec, you suggested to your client. If I heard you right that we're.

D

Not going to allow what you designed right and that's in fact, maybe in the comments I've.

D

Read which I think you said correct, so so it would be traditional pavement, [applause].

S

Appears to be coterminous to the back of the sidewalks on the lot line, yeah more or less.

D

Okay, so is it impossible to have a cobblestone apron? Why? Because it's not easy acceptable.

D

Ada acceptable who's walking on it. Well, the crossing of the sidewalk you have to cross.

S

The driveway, no, no, no hang on aka sidewalk, which is your property, would be textured sidewalk.

D

Would be concrete, ada compliant from the front of the sidewalk to the curb line I mean I've.

D

Seen that cobbled all over the place- maybe not here but everybody- I'm not here- you know.

D

Why not what's the problem, we don't allow it. Why? Well hey it's maintenance in the right.

I

Way which we can't afford, but certainly we don't allow the apron to be anything other than asphalt. Yeah, especially.

I

Where it crosses the sidewalk system, we wouldn't be crossing the sidewalk system. It would be.

D

And not what I'm just saying it: wouldn't the sidewalk would cross the driveway okay. I just.

D

Wanted to understand the city's position, anything they want on their own property, yeah yeah.

I

Still, america, because I think you had the right ideas.

H

um Yeah I get it so die.

R

So the uh is there is there? Are there a set of stairs from from the second floor down.

R

Into the garage, or is that separate, it's all external, isn't it there's a there's, an internal.

S

Stairs so the the three bays one will serve the owner and then the other two serve the.

R

New accessory drawing unit- I know it's there's one bay for the accessory dwelling unit, which.

T

Is page down so the southern side lot by that set of stairs and then there are two center.

T

Bays that will be used by um the the owner of the property and the fourth bay is flexible.

T

It you can get a car and it should be need to, but inside people calling it a garden room.

T

On the plans which has access to their yard, which will be where their garden gets me too,.

R

I think so the one the single entrance to the second floor, excluding the garage, would.

R

Be the exterior set of stairs okay, so just to be clear: it's not an adu! It's a fourth.

D

Unit in the property, so it's not an adu any garage bays inside interior. It's not just.

L

Open they're all separated, but right that um they're partitioned off yeah.

T

Yes yeah, so the residents have the zone yeah two separate and then the third saves you.

L

From also having to carbon monoxide, detection and ventilation, so it's tdap, I mean one of.

R

Those bays there's an interior set of stairs that leads down into yes exactly and that.

L

Would essentially make that part of that unit.

Q

All right, do you know if it's the suppression system is going to be nfp13d or 13? Have you.

L

Got an fr, we haven't. We typically developed that when we're doing permit drawings, which.

T

Would be our next step after approvals and either ourselves or the general contractor.

T

Would bring in the engineer to develop the suppressed drawings so and that's what you're.

L

Waiting for as far as terminator yeah any other comments, if not we'll open it up for anyone wishing to make public comments.

A

On this, you can come up to one of the microphones.

A

So uh my name is nicole bodo and um I'm here on behalf of 729 733 middle street, which is.

U

If you look at the map, it's north at the top, that's a an old duplex home that was built.

U

In 1820, originally as a duplex.

U

And so um I mean in terms of water, water runoff. I just wanted to point out that our building.

U

Has terrible problems with flooding we always have um so I I can't imagine that this won't.

U

Exacerbate that issue, but I think actually the larger issue that I need to point out.

U

Is that I believe there is another variance needed for this application, uh namely a variance.

U

From section 10.814 of the portsmouth city, ordinance, which is the provision governing.

U

Accessory dwelling units, so uh man just so this is not considered an adu. It's a fourth.

A

Dwelling unit well the application for uh the initial application for the variants.

U

Called this, it was a variance from the requirement of having just one principle dwelling on the.

U

Property but um the building is described as a new detached garage with dwelling unit.

U

Above so, a garage is an accessory use and there is a dwelling above it, and so I mean.

U

You can call this a principal dwelling, but that doesn't change the substance of what.

U

It actually is for nicole, yes, I'm nick from the playing department. Yes, I remember okay,.

D

We've met at the htc yeah, so you'd be right. If this was simply a garage structure right.

D

Now, there's nothing there right. I know you're an attorney and you're you're smart at this.

D

So I'm not trying to not my area by the way yeah. If, since there's nothing there, there's.

D

Nothing there uh if there was a garage there or a shed or barn you'd, be correct, because.

D

The principal use is not within the building that would be considered a necessity accessory.

D

Structure if there was a barn or a shed or a garage with no dwelling in it, but as soon.

D

As you put a dwelling unit into a structure like that, whether it's proposed or existing.

D

It either has to be an adu, because you ask for that in an existing structure, a conversion.

D

To put a unit inside it, or in the case of this application, you go seek a variance to.

D

Create essentially, a four family use for the property, with multiple principal structures.

D

They already had multiple principal structures with two: the carriage house, with two units.

D

In the main house, with one, this is simply a third principle structure on the lot once.

D

It's built and it would not be an adu. They have not asked for an adu under the local.

D

Ordinance, it is a dwelling unit and it's considered a principal structure when it's constructed.

D

So there'll be three principal structures on that lot, but I could offer one more perspective.

R

As well- and this is interesting too, because in this situation the garage happens to be.

R

Below and the volume it happens to be above so sometimes when, when I think of that, I think.

R

Of an accessory dwelling unit, but it's just a matter of layout so in reality that garage.

R

Could be on the ground level with a big old colonial right next to it, and it would meet.

R

Our additional principal drawing unit on the property, so technically, what is it? Is it a.

R

Garage with a drone unit, or is it just a single family home with an attached garage? So that's.

R

What this is it's a single family home, exactly we're going to attached garage, but the garage.

R

Happens at 90 of the structures build at single-family homes, the united states, since the 1950s have.

D

Garages on the ground floor, yeah, that's right. They do yes, I I used to live in one, but.

U

I guess my comment to that is that it isn't, and we just talked about that or you just.

U

Talked about that, it isn't just uh the whoever is living in the house. That's going to be.

U

Using the garage, the owner of the lot is going to be making use of that garage. That is an.

U

Accessory use to his principal residence that still won't make it a principal structure.

D

In my opinion, I'm excited we'll make an accessory structure. It's a principal structure and you.

D

Also heard we heard a comment from the applicant that you know his intentions is not to sell.

D

It but that's all irrelevant he could condo this project next year. We have no jurisdiction.

D

Over ownership, so his intentions uh might be good for him to convey, but we don't assume.

D

That that cannot be condoized, it can be into four units and, however, they arrange the parking.

D

And the use of the ground floor is up to them, not us. They won't violate zoning by having.

D

A condominium with four units with shared parking throughout the site.

U

Well, I guess my question then, would be if this is permissible and there's no requirement.

U

For a variance from the section governing accessory dwelling units, then why even have.

U

This section of the ordinance at all I mean anyone could circumvent it by saying I'm building.

U

A garage with with an apartment above it so here's I'll answer that, because it's a good.

D

Question so we've we've allowed since the donna time multiple principal structures on a lot in.

D

This case they're going to three, so they needed a variance to do that. We have not allowed.

D

Until five years ago, accessory dwelling units that wasn't even in our terminology from 1940.

D

To 2015 there were no 18, no accessory dwelling units, that's a new, relatively new term. Yes,.

D

But the fundamental difference between what they've got and an adu is an adu can never.

D

Be condoized and a property owner that seeks out an adu has to live in one of the two units.

D

On the property, either the principal structure with the big unit or the adu, and they can't.

D

It can't be an investor coming in and renting both units, so an adu is is more like a it's.

D

An in-law apartment that you can rent to anybody who's not related to you, where this thing.

D

Could be rented because of the way it was permitted through the variants and the zoning.

D

Allows the multiple dwelling units on that property? It doesn't exceed the number of units.

D

Per lot area, so it's an allowed use. It just wasn't allowed to be in three buildings without.

D

The variants it got, the variance they can rent that unit to anybody anytime forever.

D

If it was an adu which was another pathway, they could have chosen, they would not be able.

D

To ever, rent all four units and not live there right, there is a difference which is yet another.

U

Reason for wanting to circumvent that section of the ordinance. Well that the use, though,.

D

Is allowed the use of of a fourth unit, as I understand it, the use was allowed on that.

D

Property and the variance was for the number, how principal structures and some of the setback.

D

Issues with the building so that they're not circumventing the use of the property as a.

D

Poor family they were circumventing through the only means in which to do it. The setbacks.

D

Required for that structure and the number of principal structures on the lot and they.

D

Went through the process to get those permits right, but how do you reconcile going back.

U

To use how do you reconcile the accessory use of this garage, slash house by the owner.

U

Of the lot, the owner of the principal principal residence and by the way, how do you have three.

U

Principal dwellings, I mean personal structures, principal structures, that, in the english language.

U

Principle means the main one: it's referring to one, not three or four: every shopping, mall's.

D

Got multiple and any property with mult, you can have multiple principal structures. It.

D

Means the principal use of the property is contained inside the structure. That's there.

D

So this is a residential neighborhood where residential uses are allowed. They just happen.

D

To have it in three separate structures. As far as I understand and I could be wrong, there.

D

Isn't even an accessory structure on the property, I could be wrong. Do you have a [ __ ], no.

D

So there there is no accessory, there's a carriage house actually, and you raise a good point.

U

There's a carriage house, that's been converted into two apartments correct, so the carriage.

U

House would normally be an accessory structure and it is an accessory structure um and just.

U

To look back at the ordinance for a second, um the ordnance specifies that one, and only.

U

One accessory dwelling unit and an accessory use is use of a garage which is what the owner.

U

Intends to do with this shall be allowed on any lot containing a single family dwelling.

U

So an accessory dwelling unit shall not be allowed under this section 10.814 on a lot.

U

That contains more than one dwelling unit, so we already have more than one dwelling.

U

We have, we already have three dwelling units here so because the owner is going to be making.

U

Use of the garage that's in this dwelling unit, it is an accessory dwelling unit. It's.

U

Not a principal dwelling unit, there's no restriction to the owner using that bay for himself in.

R

Other words: he happened to state that, but for all intents and purposes, we've got a single.

R

Family home with an attached garage and one of the owner will happen to be using one of.

R

Those bays but he's, but that's not a contingent or in other words right. So I'm just interpreting.

U

I'm just using the language, that's in the ordinance and um the definitions that are.

U

In the ordinance of accessory use- um and so you know, the ordinance doesn't doesn't talk.

U

About what you're talking about, but it does define accessory use and it defines accessory.

U

Dwelling units, and uh for that reason um I believe there is another variance, that's needed.

U

For this application, anything else, that's all I have to say thank you. Thank you.

A

um Any other comments from anyone in the public. Let me check on zoom.

A

I would just want to add to the one we when we go through the inspection process with.

R

Respect to drainage, we have run into several situations where we were promised that the.

R

Drainage wouldn't become any, wouldn't become additional or any problematic to the butter.

R

And it did, and it was a nightmare to try to get straightened out still working with several.

R

Projects, so it would be nice to come up with a mechanism that guarantees that the drainage.

R

Is not you know worse with your butter than before the project began, but it's hard to.

R

Set that baseline, this is what I was told as well, so, in other words, how do we know if.

R

It's worse or you know the same: it's based on what the butter tells us. We've got to rely.

D

If, if you, if one believes, there's a drainage concern that needs to be studied, I would imagine.

D

We answer that question by asking the applicants design engineer to document existing conditions.

D

And certify in some manner that in his or her opinion, it is not exacerbating in existing.

D

Condition and we go, you know as long as it isn't eric we're going to go with that report.

D

It's being valid, sorry [laughter], because that's surprisingly the situation we have at hand right. We have.

R

Someone alleging that there's drainage issues already and we don't want that condition, exacerbated.

R

S

What I can say is we did prepare detailed drainage study. It's in the application. I stamped.

S

It and if you look at the general contours across the lot looking at on ex1, you can see.

S

Up near the house, I'm near middle street in television 28 and the contours run across.

S

The property down towards 20 24 into the easterly butter so- and there is a little ridge on that.

S

Is a 25-26 that does flow in that direction now and so the natural flow of the water across.

S

The property is not towards on the northerly abutting property so that the drainage that.

S

We've heard is a problem on the site on her site: it's not coming from our site, so she.

S

Has a baseline drainage issue, that's been reported at this meeting, we're taking the.

S

Runoff from the front portion of the site and collecting it and keeping it away from.

S

Her the back portion of the building, we're putting into an infiltration stone drip edge.

S

If that stone drip edge is not working and that we go out there in a storm event and.

S

The water is flowing away from the on that stone drip edge. Then I think there is a mechanism.

S

From the city for us to come in and make that work better, and I think it's a very easy way.

S

To see that, that's where our, if there's a drainage problem, it's going to be coming from.

S

The back of that building, where the stone drip edge, doesn't work, and we, you know, put.

S

Computations into it, we looked at that closely, we sized it, um I believe, there's a detail.

S

With the amount of stone uh whatever it may be, so yes.

S

So I got a comment on the storm water as well: d2! Sorry, if you're done when you're done what.

B

Was that are you done, I'm I'm out of words yeah, so uh the site review, rags uh section.

B

7.6.1 say that there has to be it says in your maintenance requirements. um I guess it's.

B

A bio bio attention area um it says that at least once animated system should be inspected.

B

For drawdown time, fire retention does not drain within 72 hours of rainfall about a.

B

Qualified professional should assess the condition, there's a lot of sheds, but there's no identification.

B

Of who and how they're gonna I mean the house there, but not the who, so you need to specify.

B

In here that they shall inspect it and who that person shall be and what happens if they.

B

Don't because that's in our certainly racks that you do yeah, so we need that. I mean that.

S

Can um I don't know what you've done historically on you know, non-commercial I'll call it a.

B

Conversations but this does trigger obviously site review, so we can make it that it's a.

S

Design professional, whether it's just a certified professional roads and sediment control or.

S

It's a pe we're fine with either as long as you identify it and show how it's going to.

B

Happen yeah, so we can follow up because we with our new stormwater regs. We have to follow.

B

Up on these in the future and we're going to have to do more and more of that, so all.

B

That information has to be with the approval.

D

Yes, so take this in the spirit of trying to be helpful. um Nicole was at the historic district.

D

Commission, which everybody here knows I staff and there were some issues and concerns raised.

D

By her and a couple of commissioners weighed in, and I made a couple of comments at the.

D

Htc- and I just want to reiterate those for you guys to consider and and nicole didn't.

D

Bring this up today, but I think they're relevant to the site plan review regulations in respect.

D

To the screening between property owners, um I'd like you to refine or augment your design.

D

With with a proposed screen along the property line, whether it's a fence or a combination.

D

Of a fence with it may already be there, I'm just just throwing this back out there, while.

D

Everybody's in the room um and and or landscaping with that fence and in particular I brought.

D

Up the issue with the htc, and I'm only saying that, because everybody wasn't at the htc meeting.

D

Who's in the room, but it seemed to me worthwhile to look at reducing the the size of the deck.

D

Somewhat that sticks out of the the front of the front of the carriage house, the side.

D

Of the carriage house, depending on how you're looking at it along the north side, maybe recessing.

D

It a little bit off the outside building wall. I don't think a whole lot. Panelizing the the.

D

Two, uh the railing along the property line, so it's more opaque, more more privacy for.

D

You on whoever's in that unit in the carriage house and the butter. uh I think it's also.

D

Pretty deep, it looks like it's at least 10 feet, project projecting out of the carriage.

D

House, eight's probably enough in my mind, but that's just food for thought and I think you.

D

Should look at doing something like a pergola on that to allow landscaping to provide even.

D

Or lattice or a combination thereof, so when the people are on that deck looking into either.

D

Nicole or her neighbor's property right next door, there's the ability to again filter out.

D

And provide mutually beneficial privacy between the outdoor user on your deck and whoever's.

D

Living next door- and the last thing I would ask you to think about you've, got one double.

D

Hung window on the second floor on that side and that then you've got the little windows.

D

Maybe look at a bahama shutter on that window. That's a louvered screen again still provides.

D

Ventilation but provides some privacy just stuff to think about. I would like to just.

S

Comment on one thing along that common property line is that um sinclairs are not utilizing.

S

Their full property yeah- that's the applicant, the applicant, so that I'm that's one of the.

S

Things that we've been respectful with the design is we haven't pushed on. You know the.

S

Design and the landscaping and all the grading up to the property line we kept what I'll.

S

Call is the the fence line, is our limits of work so that we we haven't encroached into.

S

More of our land, taking away what is perceived the butters property and in order for us to.

S

Provide more landscaping, we may need to do that. Okay, I'm not sure. I followed all that.

D

But I'll trust your judgment right here. What's so I mean I think, jen and probably mr sinclair.

D

Understand what I was suggesting talking about the the barrier along you said, discuss things.

V

So this fencing exactly okay, uh if you already have that thing, is we actually own up to four.

V

Feet on the back side of the fence: yes, but we're not gonna we're not touching it so point.

D

I'm trying to make beyond and that's very helpful to know where the fence is this is.

D

About uh minimizing any privacy impacts, it's not just nicole whoever's living there. If.

D

I live there, it's so this is demonstrating to me if I'm standing in my driveway things.

D

Are pretty good right now, but not necessarily for what's going to now pop up right behind.

D

The fence at a story and a half above the fence, with windows and a deck right behind.

D

The fence, so the other comments I made I'd ask you to consider, because I think they're.

D

Good design solutions allow you to get the functionality and the programming of the deck.

D

But maybe in a more not that this is a disrespectful, it's not, but maybe in a more sensitive manner.

D

To who might be living around it because it's an elevated deck, it could have eight ten people.

D

On it and they're looking down into everyone's yard anyway, I own one of those. So I know how.

D

They function yeah um right.

A

You'd have to come forward nicole. Yes, if you want to make another public comment yeah, I.

U

Just wanna, I just wanna point out one thing about this map um and the photo renderings.

U

So when I looked at the photo renderings of this property it, the deck appears set back.

U

Much further than it actually is, if you look at the map, you can see that the deck comes.

U

Up all the way to where the gate is on my property that leads out to the driveway and.

U

So the way this deck is situated right now, whoever is standing on there will have direct.

U

Views into my dining room and I will have direct views into their deck. There will be.

U

No other place to look other than the deck, and, what's beneath it, we don't have those.

D

Photo renderings for this audience, so um we had seen it at the htc. So I know what she's.

D

Talking about, but we don't have them here so point wall taken, I think, that's all we.

D

Can do with that at this time? Yes- and I I agree with you that it is that the privacy.

U

Of whoever is living in this residence is also important. um I mean I will be looking.

U

Into their windows just as much as they will be looking into mine, so that's all. I have.

U

To say on that, thank you, okay, any other public comments, all right, we'll close that portion and open it up for discussion.

A

A

Discussion or emotion, or does this need to come back? Everybody.

B

I mean they're going to fix that driveway debacle and I'd want to come at least the.

B

Stipulation about the storm water, but I could make that as a stipulation and the sizing of the fire service could be a stipulation because they're not going to.

L

Have that information until later.

A

So what would you want sizing because they're not going to do that until after so that could.

A

Be the build improvement I would think prior to a building permit yeah. I would think so.

D

I'm fine with all the things I said not being stipulated because I'll reiterate them at.

D

The historic district commission and see what you come up with and I'd want to stick with.

B

It they identify who's, going to do the maintenance on the storm water system and make that information.

B

Available for review by the city on an annual basis.

B

At least, I guess at least an annual basis.

I

Eric have you seen the drywall system for the existing structures? I have not do you.

I

Know for a fact, there is one and they're not just tied into the sewer system down below.

I

Great, oh, we did it about seven years ago. um We did the entire yard. We graded it um before.

V

Nicole, moved in uh I hate to say it: we did flood her yard, um it helped larry garfield.

V

And then we did the landscaping because of the situation where the pool was they. You.

V

Know 20 years ago they made mounds and redirected water, but we made it better. Seven years ago.

V

And that's when we did the drywalls: where are the drywalls? It's on all four corners.

V

Of the main house, okay and then also there's one on the carriage house, they're very good.

V

Thank you, so they go into a six by six foot. I don't know four feet deep hit of gravel.

V

Understood. Thank you.

I

Is all set, I think, I'll make a motion to approve with this together three stipulations. I have.

A

Two, what was the third? I have uh provide sizing a fire service line for review and approval.

A

Prior to building permit and then identify who's going to do the maintenance of the stormwater.

A

System that first stipulation should include the domestic water line as well. That needs.

I

To be sized as well yeah, I think it's four residences here it might be bigger than one.

I

Inch and the plan should show where it is a planning board approval and sizing we'll show where.

S

It is right and the stormwater want to identify who will do the maintenance and provide annual.

B

Report upon request.

K

We did have a comment about adding that catch basin at the low point of the driveway.

K

Which they said they put in that yeah infiltration, one yeah we're committed to the beach and.

S

Catch basin, but not interested yeah.

S

F

Can I just make fun clarification, so the domestic water line and the fire service line can be.

F

Done prior to building permits, but after approval by the planning board, they should be shown.

I

That they could be size uh prior, okay, yep.

H

Sized and approved by dpw, in other words, who's looking at it, though, in other words,.

R

Typically, you would be the one that would be looking at no okay, no! No! I do so so as.

R

Long as I say, someone chose me and are my approvals: yeah we've sized it then I'm good.

R

To go, I can issue the building permit. Generally speaking, though, as I understand it, the water.

I

The water domestic water gets sizable number of fixtures inside yeah. The number of these.

I

Three dwellers and the fire protection has to be sized by the fire protection yeah yeah.

R

Number of fixtures and then- uh uh and you know, you're tying in from the street or they're.

R

Tying in from the street they already have they're. I guess they already have their primary.

R

Line coming in from the street, it's not big enough.

H

It's not big enough so that whoever their engineers will determine count up all the.

R

Fixtures and then determine the size. Yes, according to the plumbing code, I assume so all right so do either the fire department.

F

Or public works need to review anything. No, you won't you'll, be just just a utility engineer.

F

Needs to sign off on it yeah! Well, I mean we'll review it all right. Well, that's part of the.

L

Billing problem yeah, it was a great club permit. You just need to show the lines before they.

I

Go away I mean so their interest to get right, so they have to dig it up and do it again.

A

So right, yes, so was there a third stipulation right now? Well the catch-based enough to the point of.

G

The driveway which the applicant has agreed to but we're going to move it forward as a stipulation, but I think it's going to be a different kind of it's going to be a bleaching.

B

Bleaching catch facing yeah, okay, we have them. Is there a motion? I made a motion.

B

All right there's a motion in a second any further discussion, all in favor all right.

I

Any opposed motion carries.

A

All right is there another motion to adjourn so move all right. All right, bye,.