City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Technical Advisory Committee, 12 Sep 2023

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From YouTube: 9.12.2023 Technical Advisory Committee Work Session

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9.12.2023 Technical Advisory Committee Work Session

A

All right, we'll call the um site plan review technical advisory committee work session meeting to order for september 12th.

A

First item we have 11 55, sagamore avenue.

B

Good afternoon john chagdon from engineering haley ward with me is thomas frangos. The developer.

B

The uh thank you for taking the time to have a workshop and talking to us today we're looking.

B

Forward to your feedback, property is 1155, sagamore avenue this. Currently a two-story structure that.

B

Has had a number of uses over the years? I I really don't want to speak to exactly what the permitted.

B

Uses are currently, I don't know that that matters, so the existing conditions and demolition plans.

B

Shows the property survey, information and the fact that the existing structure will be removed.

B

Along with um some sheds and chicken coops and other things that exist on the property, if you.

B

The site is just north of the entrance to the sea star condominium on the bottom. You see the sea.

B

Star driveway, which is a private road and there's a hatched area that comes from sagamore avenue,.

B

Goes a little bit along the driveway and then runs northwest towards the 1155 property. That was.

B

Ending that is an existing force, main connection that was installed during the sea star condominium.

B

Project to provide for future sewer for a future sewer connection to this lot. Currently, there's a.

B

Septic system, the lot has not hooked up, but that will be part of what is used going forward. There's.

B

Sidewalks that were constructed along the frontage and there's also a note to the west of the site is.

B

A piece of conservation land that there's public access to that and that access is shown to the.

B

Just to the east of the first sea, star unit condominium number 10, which is down bottom.

B

Left sheet, so the next plan shows the proposed site plan. The proposal is to construct one.

B

Building with townhouse style, residential condominium units utilizing the same driveway.

B

Coming off of sagamore road, there would be four parking spaces for guests shown on the.

B

um On the east end of the building and the beginnings of some landscaping, so the.

B

um Rear yards so to speak, which is sort of in the left side yard. They would be separated by.

B

Some landscaping to provide some areas for the individual unit owners to have outdoor space. The.

B

Driveway approaches on the north side with an entrance into two-car uh at grade level parking.

B

The zoning data is supplied to the right of the impervious surface area chart on the upper left.

B

Hand corner the site is becoming more impervious, but still complies with the minimum open space.

B

Requirements and then, if you look at the proposed zoning data, the site meets all of the.

B

Well, coverage and open space and lot area per dwelling unit requirements.

B

Moving on the next sheet is a grading plan, the site slopes from the south east to the northwest.

B

And the proposal is to capture. There is a little bit of runoff that goes to sagamore ave. We would.

B

Continue that wouldn't increase it, but the runoff that flows towards the northwest. We.

B

Would capture in a curbed edge of pavement, so we would run it down to a proposed rain garden with.

B

An outlet control structure that would be the stormwater treatment and mitigation component.

B

The next sheet is the utility plan, so the proposal would be to install.

B

Four separate e1 sewer connections and a common sewer, lateral that connects to the stub that.

B

Was left so that's shown on the south side of the structure. Water service would come off of.

B

Sagamore avenue that's shown on the east side and we would propose to tap the pole to a proposed.

B

Transformer with an underground electric service on the north east side of the proposed structure.

B

And then the last sheet or next to the last sheet, I'm sorry there's two detail sheets. The.

B

Usual details and erosion control and then the next sheet, which is the last sheet, shows the.

B

um E1 service connection details uh and I would look for some guidance as to uh if those details.

B

Still apply, they were the ones that were used for the rest of the development of sea, star.

B

If there's a more up-to-date uh standard, we would appreciate and be glad to put those on the plan.

B

Here to answer any questions and look forward to your feedback.

A

All right thanks john uh comments, questions.

C

Yeah um the parking, the guest parking, the visitor parking.

C

um You've got it between the building and the street, and I think you need a variance for that.

C

So if there's a way to put it either in the back or along the side as parallel or slide.

C

The building forward and move it, the other switch it with the building satisfy that.

D

Comment parking as well: um your calculation shows 1.3 by four units.

D

And then it's round down to five, it needs to be rounded up to six, because it's 5.2 spaces.

D

Sure, okay, um john, if you could just move the label for the map lot label into the correct parcel.

D

That would be helpful.

D

um And on the cover page, I believe you have the sra district highlighted when it needs to be mro.

D

And then my last comment is: if you've approached the a budding.

D

Property about the easement, if they're agreeable.

B

The sewersman yeah, the sewer easement, is in place. Oh it's already in place. Okay, yes,.

B

And the pipe exists up to the property line. Yes, I did want to talk about that because.

E

I believe it's in uh one and a quarter inch pipe designed for a single e1 pump connection.

E

Can you confirm that it will handle four.

E

And uh does mr volinsky still own this lot? He did.

E

Sign an mou to connect the existing structure to the the sewer system.

F

He is still a property owner. Okay, the applicant has a valid purchase and sale agreement.

F

Okay, that uh may come up at the the property owner signs.

E

uh Contract with the city to connect the existing structure to the sewer.

B

Just uh before the demolition and rework the problem before the tear it down would make sense.

G

So there's no evidence that he's done. That connection is.

E

What you're saying I don't? I don't believe it's been done yet now, yeah.

E

H

E

Question but uh all right.

E

um Need a dot driveway permit because it's d.o.t, but you mentioned, that it's dot.

E

Easement over the sidewalk.

B

um Yeah we would, there was a valid dot permit. We would confirm that reuse is acceptable.

B

Sorry, what um so that there is a valid dot permit that was issued when.

G

Property was a daycare in like 1996. yeah, I believe you're changing the driveway, though.

E

It's just a general note comment: yeah yeah, we're gonna uh confirm with the department.

B

That this reuse, that is acceptable or if we need to get a new drive, permit all right.

E

Are you going to curb this parking lot or is it gonna? Yes, the back the north side would be.

B

Curved to direct all the flow to the rain garden, okay, so, specifically john, we have questions about.

H

The south side how water gets trapped in there, you know we're involved with the prior owner.

H

Trying to solve the drainage problems that the sea stark got built and we need to.

H

Show that the water is coming out of that there without flying back on the sea, star property, so.

H

There's, as you know, there's a swale that's through there. That's not shown on any of the draining.

H

Drainage plants, including the new proposed ones, so you need to show that is happening and then.

H

Want to see what you're doing with the with the roof flow from the from the.

H

Whether that's getting picked up into some sort of drainage system, that's going to that rain garden.

H

And then some of that front, visitor parking is going that way too, but it.

H

Sounds like that's moving we're going to need a variance for it.

H

um We need to look at that, treating it.

H

And then fire protection, whether that's required or not? ah Yes,.

H

And then, whether they're going to be condos or whether they're going to be apartments.

H

It's going to be a condominium, you know correct yeah, it's going to be a condominium. Okay, you're.

H

Gonna do separate metering for the condo or are you gonna have one water service for everybody.

B

Is there a possibility of four meters or four services condo, you can do four services other.

H

Than that you're gonna need to carve a hole in that end unit for a water metering, room.

H

Heated and everything for that: okay, yep.

E

Is this property gonna need a fire service, yeah? Okay, so.

I

So you probably need a room for them: sprinkler sprinkler. Yes, my arm, anyways yep,.

G

With an access door to the outside, probably the excess from the outside; okay- yes, no just.

J

Be aware, they were on the 2023 electrical code and we have some amendments that might affect how.

J

You're running your your uh your feeders. So um if you're coming from one end and you need to get to.

J

The other end of the building everything has to go underground through this lab can't go through the.

J

The the floor framing of the adjacent units, it all has to go or separately you know, but if it can't.

J

It can't be exposed anywhere, it's either going to go underground or it's got to enter each unit from.

J

The exterior and that's a portsmouth amendment, so that's not 20 20. 2023. It's push a building code.

G

So the electrical code that the state is on is it 2020.? Okay, we've adopted the 2023 is point a point.

J

B is we have an amendment to the 2023 code that would even go above and beyond the requirement.

J

For the through penetrations of the feeders, as they go through from unit to unit to unity,.

J

Unit, so just be mindful that we're designing and also we'd be on the for the building code would.

J

Not fall under the residential code because it's four stories so it's going to be under the ibc.

J

2018 international building code- commercial rather than residential, because it is four stories.

J

It may not make a bit, you know a lot of difference, but just be mindful when your architects are are.

J

Designing this yeah, I think the upper floor is, is dormer, but that still means. What's that story.

B

The upper floor is dormer, but I it still would qualify as a four-story yep yeah yep.

G

Because it's not a basement, it's not a lower level parking. Well, regardless, we wouldn't even.

J

If there was a basement yep, we wouldn't classify that as a story, but once you're.

J

At grade level, even though it is a garage, it still counts as a story, and then you, you know.

B

So the 2023 electrical code is the uh portsmouth yeah portsmouth adopted and changed the standard.

B

Though, is the for some of the through penetrations yay right, correct, nfpa, 70.

J

70 and the national electrical code are the same book. Yep yep.

I

So you're saying there were four independent underground services.

J

There will be more than likely five meters right, you'll have four and then.

J

A house meter and they can for supply power to any of the common elements.

J

um That uh that the condo association will be paying for maybe lighting or site lighting.

J

I don't know what the case, but um yeah you would more than likely have five meters on that property.

J

But I would imagine yeah and then you dropped down underground from there and run outside.

H

To each unit, you could do that yep disconnect and then pop inside exactly right, yeah unless.

J

For some reason, or logistically it made sense iguana's lab. Then you could do that as well. Yeah.

B

And then, if it was a single apartment, just for my own understanding would that change yep so well.

J

An apartment anything you only have one owner and then um so that would depend on. I suppose how the.

J

Owner wanted to configure the service if he wanted to build the electrical bill into the monthly rent.

J

Or if you wanted to make sure that every tenant was responsible for their own and that's how that.

J

Would be orchestrated, you know you have options right, I'm just talking about the feeds would still.

B

Have to be that way, it couldn't go through the one unit to the other. uh I'd have to no, they couldn't.

J

So it would more than likely this seems a little unorthodox, but it may have to be incontinental.

J

Next year, but we'd have to talk to electrical inspector gotcha, I can't remember how he how he.

J

Awarded that exactly for the apartments it may be meters on the outside and then um and then conduit.

J

You know going up into the respective unit, I'm not sure yeah. The whole idea, though, is, is not to have.

J

um Gas lines or electrical feeders go through someone else's property, which.

J

Is what was happening in the past because I could be renovating my ceiling and there's.

J

My neighbor's electrical lines that run right through my garage ceiling and then.

J

I'm sawzalling through and then I cut them you know. So that's that's the concern. The problem.

K

Peter yeah, I had a question about the rain garden in the back. What um there's a head wall.

C

An outlet control structure: when do you anticipate that being used, and it looks like it will then.

C

Drain to the neighboring property- or I guess it's still, the property it comes out of, but then pretty.

C

Close on the given property exactly for big storms or is what's the plan for that. It seems like.

C

So the easement for next door or how the natural drainage pattern right now here.

H

Just so you know is all the water is being directed to. If you go back to that sheet,.

H

One, so you can see the existing condition, a crushed stone area by the shed in the hot tub.

H

And all the sight water is discharging onto that spot right now,.

H

It drains across the property line further us down to that 30 and then 29 contour into that.

H

Bowl, that's there so the difference the water goes now recreating it it's basically. So it's mimicking.

H

The flow it's going into the other part of that 29 contour on the neighboring property, but it's going.

H

That way, so that would be appropriate, but it needs to be the outlet controls. Construction needs to be.

H

Sized for the appropriate drainage, storms, all of them yeah. What would that be? uh 2, 10 25 to 10 25.

B

So the two would be held in the rain garden. Two would be helped yeah and then 10 goes into the.

C

Pipe and 25 in the overflow, no, they would probably both be. You know it wouldn't overflow till 25.

B

Until past 25 but you'd match the flow rates to the adjacent properties at the 210 and 25.

H

Or maybe you can move that I'll, let john so it's more in the center of that rain garden.

H

So it's closer to where it discharges. We can look at that. The the property does go lower as.

B

You go that way, but we'll look at that because, as you get closer to that that corner there, you.

H

Get closer to the way the trail comes through mm-hmm, something to think about yep. Thank you.

G

Yeah, we'll probably want to go out and locate the trail. A little further show it yeah.

B

Right now, there's a lot of landscaping. That is.

B

In the area between the driveway she's, our driveway and the property, so.

B

And there's a fence: that's there now, so uh I'm gonna be working on a landscape plan, but.

G

um A lot of the landscaping would be behind the fence, so it might just be more uh planting.

B

Trees for future growth, as opposed to you, know shrubs and stuff. You might do the landscaping.

C

In the front that front island you have, there have some landscaping, probably uh yeah up by the.

B

Street yeah yeah yeah we're gonna have to rethink things moving the parking from the front yard, yeah.

C

I don't know if you have enough room to parallel it along the side or just flip. The building in the.

G

Parking or we just put the guest parking on the other side yeah, you know be easy enough. Yeah yeah.

G

Brings this building out to the street, but it's a pretty small required setback.

A

All right any other comments or questions.

A

Are you all set john yeah? I guess we gotta research. This comment about the.

B

Current owner connecting to the sewer so right, but also you had.

A

A question about the detail on the last sheet: uh yes, the e1 details.

B

Other new details from the sagamore project, the recent project that we should use or.

B

uh I don't know is that pro was that project did that project utilize e1? They did yes, the.

E

Sagamore officer extension project uh plans are on the city's website.

E

So I'll I'll take a look to confirm our comment that if they need anything, thank you.

H

All right thanks, thank you. Thank you.

A

All right next up, we have 635 sagamore for.

C

It's a work session, so we don't have public comment but when they come back.

A

For full tech, we'll have public hearing and public comment yep.

A

um So next up we have 635 sagamore for site plan reviews.

L

Thank you very much. This is a pre-tac hearing. I don't know if you want me.

L

Just to open up with my couple of questions, keep it brief sure and then give us kind of.

A

A background of the project sure this is the um the luster king site on sagamore.

L

um And uh mr gerpy and mr ward are working together to develop the property uh at the zoning.

L

Board a couple times uh have zoning approval for four units: four single family units, which.

L

Would result in the removal of um the buildings that are out there today and the existing use.

L

And so then, now that we're past zoning board and we're past the appeal period.

L

The question of how to actually time to actually design the site and come up with a layout that.

L

Works for us and you guys and everybody um so that started to lead to more questions.

L

um And, as you probably are aware, um maybe you haven't paid tons of attention to it, but there's.

L

A big giant, uh you know, there's a peak of a hill right at sagamore just to the uh the south of us.

L

um And there's a wide open, curb cut at luster king.

L

um Where they've been using, that curb cut, I don't know for how many years.

L

um A long long time, and so the question of what's the best location for the future curb cut, was the.

L

Key question here: I guess, is: there's the uphill side and the downhill side, um and so we did a.

L

We didn't want to design the whole thing and come in and have you ask us to change it to the other.

L

Side of the property- and I know this may take more work than enhancer right now, but I didn't.

L

Know how else to start that conversation- and I know mister eric abby- has worked with us before.

L

On a kind of site on beverly hill that was similar to this, and it might require, I assume, a sidewalk.

L

um Or some more deeper looks, but um so we took a look at the uphill side, which is what.

L

Peter has on the screen up there. This is the and we pushed the drive as far to the north.

L

Or south I get turned around uh on these um as we could to see over the crest of the hill, which does.

L

Put our our flare of our driveway, you know over the extension of the butters property line uh to.

L

Get it that far to the um to the south and then at that point we're scraping over the top of the hill.

L

And then the next option would be to put it at the low side, which I don't think we provided. That.

L

L

Planned from the low side, um we did not, we showed the calculation.

L

Of the site, distance requirement um and that's based on design speed, not on actual.

L

um Traffic speeds, which I think is sometimes we look at the 85th percentile of the actual.

L

Speed but we were looking at a 40 mile, an hour design, speed when calcs.

L

So first question kind of a tough one and the second one I think, is easier, which is a.

L

We know you guys are doing work out there on the road. Soon we've been talking to severino and roger.

L

Roger rivets been keeping us abreast of what's happening and um david he's installed already.

L

The sewer line to this piece, but I think the next step for him and I think he said the.

L

Springtime there'd be would be the final paving of sagamore in the sidewalks. If I.

L

Understood correctly, all right, maybe that'd, be the soonest or the uh or could be sooner um well.

M

I think I think roger was saying maybe april at the earliest, but we're just we like to get you.

M

Know get out of the roadway before you. You guys do that. You know moratorium. That's the big! The.

M

Big concern for us and roger's been great to work with. I know that the owner has been helpful with.

M

Providing the property as a as a lay down area for severino for this whole process, so they've been.

M

Trying to keep us updated on what's happening so that we can stay ahead of the game a little bit so.

M

We're still in design of the widening and re-grading of the road, a couple things have.

E

Come up this being one of them on what our best approach on the road would be, whether.

E

It would be to work on the crest of the hell a little looking at whether that would cause.

E

Us to install retaining walls on the surrounding properties uh or whether requesting that you guys.

E

Mirror it that the driveway on the low side, that was a discussion I wanted to, have you guys and if.

E

Your property would require some additional work on changing the grade of the road that.

E

Probably requires some contribution on your part due to that change being needed for this property.

E

um We pretty much just started looking at this now, so we don't really have a full.

E

Answer for you either yep, that's be sure newly seen this. You know configuration.

L

Yeah the so if we want to work together on it and come back, I think that makes sense. Then, if.

L

um If you're just starting to look at it, and I think that.

L

um I don't know what entails that crest of that hill. I assume. I know why it's there, yeah yeah yeah.

N

Going back to your first question on sight lines, that's the important one here because and what.

N

You've shown here is uh stopping side. Distance is really an intersection site distance, which.

N

You've provided, but there is another calculation called stopping site distance, which you need to.

N

Also provide which is a two foot object, so it would be for like a vehicle to stop to make a.

N

Left turn into your site. You need to be able to make sure that you have clear. You know vision over.

N

The crest of the hill to see that vehicle stopped so down the line down down the street yeah yeah of.

N

um Right right in the travel path, so the one you're showing is someone pulling in.

N

And out of the driveway looking to see, if you know there's any traffic on the main road you want to.

M

See someone turning left into this way, what they have yeah? That's a two-foot object height in the.

N

Roadway ahead of you, and so it really depends on how that plays out whether or not this is.

N

The best location or moving like you, said to the other end of the site, because you do if you move.

N

It to the other end, then you're getting around the curve which helps but you're getting away from the.

N

Crested hill, so it right you got to see which one is best there and look at both sight lines. What.

H

Do you want to use for the metric 85 percentile yeah? I use the percentile speed yeah when we have.

N

That speed data- I think it's around 35, but we can get that to you. Okay, so you have the actual kind.

L

Of whatever speed information yeah, that would be great too. That would help us if it was only 35.

L

But so it's intersection site distance, not stopping site yeah. What you're showing here is.

N

Intersections like distance, which is something you definitely need, but stopping side distance, is the.

N

More critical right, the calculations for stopping site distance, though that we provided, but oh I.

H

See what you're saying but yeah yeah, because this this one you're showing here has an object, height.

N

Of three and a half feet and the driver's eye of three and a half feet, but the other one with.

N

Stopping side distance is a two foot object and a three and a half foot driver's side.

N

But they'd all be based on 85th percentile speed.

L

And then you'd probably want to see all four examples of.

L

uh Yeah, the two with the north or whatever and two at the south yeah.

L

And then um and then the the water line size well, we can so I understand that we.

L

Can certainly provide that and then provide it to both you guys. I don't know if that.

L

Assist with whatever you're looking at for that crest of that hill.

L

And then the the other question was the water line size and the layout with the.

L

um Would the fire department require us to have a hydrant because that'll.

L

Determine that we need a uh you know, eight inch tap off the water main.

L

If there is no hydrogen required, we could probably get away with a two inch tap for.

L

Domestic or something much much smaller is there a hydra at the top of the hill should be.

I

It might be on the westin sampson plans, but I don't have those.

L

It should be on our plans if we shut it.

E

There is a hydrant at the top of the hill on the other side of the road. I assume nope.

H

There's one difference: it is a hydrant top of the hill one there and right in the middle.

I

How long is that.

L

H

L

It's 259 feet: 260. yep,.

I

Yeah, we probably want to hide her it's more than the 150 right and where would you want.

I

Can we show one on sheet c3 if you look at sheet c3, which is the third sheet.

L

We're showing right at the entrance.

I

C3, you said yes.

I

Yeah, that's fine.

H

As far as suppression.

I

If you, if you can't come up with a compliant turnaround,.

I

Can be the 2018 ifc appendix d, then do you need to put better suppression in a p13d systems.

I

Sprinklers yep and does that we show it. We have a turnaround, but the where we show.

L

It's in the middle of the project, not quite at the end, and it's not nearly big enough.

L

It's just barely big enough, so we can make it bigger too in the ifc it. It lays out exactly.

I

What's required for the turnaround with the minimum width is going to be 20 feet.

I

Okay, all right you'll probably do that. There's multiple options: there, the hammerhead sack of y.

L

'all yeah, we were trying to keep it not go past. The last unit with more road for the.

L

Turnaround but the uh we can it's all going to depend on where that road actually comes in so.

L

If we could widen it, if we can make it the dimensions that work for you can.

L

We keep it in that location or does it have to be after the last unit, so.

I

That, essentially, what they'd be doing, yeah.

I

What what's the distance between the turnaround and the end of the road.

L

um I'd say about a hundred feet.

L

Truck lengths almost.

I

Yeah I'll have to look at that a little closer.

L

So I guess, if you work, that's something we can work out as we go forth, because the water line.

L

If you're going to require a hydrant, that's really the determining factor of our tap size.

L

That just means we've got to bring an eight inch off the road which was.

L

The key to making sure we did that before these guys paved it uh right.

I

If you were to sprinkler those buildings, you probably we wouldn't require you to have a turnaround or ride.

I

But we would need just an option, yeah sure.

L

So the sprinklers would get rid of the turnaround and the hydrant.

L

Walk in are you talking about the width of the road? Well, the with the road potentially could be.

K

Good as well yeah, I was actually joking, but now that you mentioned with the road that would yeah.

M

Would it make sense to get out there on the site at all with that's a smaller group or.

I

Take a look at some of the sight line stuff or.

I

For my stuff, I don't know if necessary,.

I

Happy to do it if you'd, like.

N

For sidelines, it's probably easier to do it on a plan, yeah yeah sure, because you need the profile along the road and the one sure.

L

And at this moment you don't know if the road profile is changing. It's really up to you. You.

H

May need to lower the road in order to make the safe distance work. So we need to kind of know that.

H

Right of course, how quickly are you able to get us those uh sight lines? uh I assume pretty quickly as.

L

Long as I don't need to get more survey, work, which I don't think I should um you know probably a week.

E

To do a little shorter than that shorter than a week? No okay, I thought you were meaningful that.

L

Was pretty fast do it today, um yeah, potentially, I have to work with the you know, mr esteem, mr perna.

L

Is uh trying to retire and we keep trying to pull him back into the fray of things to review our.

L

Safe distance analysis, so I can, we can do the plans, but I may need his assistance and the.

L

uh Some of it, but the yeah we'll get it to you as quick as we can all right. I don't know where.

L

The southern or the lower driveway would be just yet. We don't have a layout for that. You.

L

Know what it would look like if we reversed. um Obviously the first two homes are pretty simple.

L

um I don't know what the last two would end up, looking like if they'd be at the end of.

L

A hammerhead we can make up something for that. For now, eric you'd mentioned something about the.

E

Driveway for an extending beyond the property line is that yeah. He mentioned that in his introduction.

L

Yeah, normally we don't do that, but we were trying to get the to get the sight line up.

L

The hill as high as we can, we have to be up in that area or have a um you know: a reduced radius.

L

Well, we had designed it to be a 24 foot, wide per cd ordinance, uh opening on the southern side of.

E

The property, so that's where the existing through lane to the back garage, was along.

H

On the edge of saggin, one will be left or right uh staying in the same spot. It is going to be.

E

Same spot on this side, but this property never had sidewalk in front of it.

E

Fully open so we're the design closing that up quite a bit yeah.

E

But along the edge of the road there, no grass strip the curve large thing in the.

H

Same spot, we're maintaining the back of the curb on the upside down so west side.

E

E

Sorry back of back of sidewalk is curb would be a little bit into the road inches.

H

I guess the biggest problem with this life not sight distance notwithstanding, is the.

H

Okay, the width of the driveway. Is that going to be adequate or do you need.

I

The width is adequate as it is. The turnaround is not because you have a 20 foot bed.

H

Drainage in water, coming down the hill to our tide, watch and they're.

H

Already having washouts down there, so they can be very interested in.

H

Your design plans and how you're going to stop that from happening.

I

Sure understood: okay,.

C

And this is going to be condominium, yes correct, and do you have a condominium site plan? You can.

C

Show us, how do you read the conceptual site plan is all we have at this moment: c2. Okay, we get to.

C

See that as when you put your application in so we can look at the common areas and whatnot.

C

And then the landscape plan, um obviously, if you can save as many trees as possible.

C

That they get and they got plantings of a bunch of trees in front of the tree line. I'm just curious.

C

About that is that yeah, so so, just some backstory on that um we've been working with tide watch for.

M

I don't know how long now a year and a half, or so um we had submitted a zba application for for five.

M

Single-Family units on this property- and you may all be familiar with this- this story already, but.

M

um That wasn't that wasn't well received by the tide watch folks. We did um reduce it to four and.

M

Provided that landscaping plan to the typewatch board, which then sort of agreed to not oppose the.

M

Project, but that didn't stop the actual residents coming out and they weren't necessarily that.

M

Happy about it and, unfortunately, the concept plan that shows the landscaping on it doesn't show the.

M

Topography on it, so if you kind of look at both c2 and c3, you can see that, where we're showing.

M

A whole bunch of trees to remain on c2, as noted, um and it's a pretty good. You know fairly dense.

M

You know existing stand of trees, that buffer us from the tide watch folks and then the proposed.

M

Hybrides and hemlocks, and what have you are proposed to be sort of at the top of the slope.

M

um To provide even more of a buffer between the time to watch folks in us is in elevation.

M

Change. That's pretty significant so hopefully with with the existing trees to remain, and then those.

M

Abrovides and hemlocks that'll grow to some decent sizes that will offer most of the visual view.

M

So that's what that was intended for okay and to sort of complete the understory too. If you.

L

Know a lot of the existing trees are taller just tall with no understory yep exactly. I was just.

C

Wondering why I didn't leave the tree line out there, but let's see all right, that's all pines.

M

Okay, that was the idea, and this was just the start of a landscaping plan. It wasn't.

M

A complete plan, by any stretch, it's more of a buffering plan than anything else.

M

So yeah, so I guess the main goal is obviously to get disapproved ultimately, but in the short-term.

M

Goal is to figure out where that road needs to go and then get that water line in.

M

um And well in advance of us getting plans to to the full tack.

M

That would be our hope would be we'd, we'd kind of be get a permit to get that line in.

O

I just had a quick question about site note number six. This.

O

um There should be a letter from gov environmental services. uh We.

M

Weren't able to find that in the digital or the hard copies, so I don't know yeah.

M

I don't know if we submitted it as part of the zba packet or not.

M

But I had a globe environmental evaluate this property at the same time that they were doing the.

M

The project on woodbury avenue that we were doing so we had a similar situation.

M

Where the city gis was was showing a wetland wherever there wasn't one. So if you just want.

O

To submit the letter next time and then maybe the delineation that he did yep absolutely can do that.

E

Was there any consideration of extending the gas to the property all right? It's a good question.

E

It looks like it, it ends in front of 607 the lot next to yours. Past tide watches, driveway entrance.

L

That'd be something that unit 2 would work directly with you guys on. I would presume.

L

Right you'd have, to put it all, I don't know so there was no intention that they.

L

Were going to go all the way to the bridge or anything, no at all, with their gastric.

M

The there's a lot in the ground right there.

L

We could talk to dave, mclean and see if he has any man's thoughts are on that sure.

L

I assume it's not a big enough of an area to warrant.

H

For four horses to go another 100 feet may do that. Yeah.

L

um Are you ripping up that sidewalk, um oh yeah, all the way from tidewater, oh yeah, it's beyond.

L

Tide watch as well all the way yeah all the way down to the bridge, yep all right.

L

Can we lower the sidewalk at the top of that crest of that hill, so it's lower.

L

Than the road, instead of uh one of our sight line, goes over the sidewalks yeah.

K

D

um Could you guys just provide a complete zoning table? You did some of the calculations, but if you.

D

Could just um complete that table of proposed and required zoning requirements? Sorry, that would be.

D

Helpful and then did this project go through preliminary conceptual, with the planning board.

M

It has not, I don't think so, does it need to it does yep, because you have uh more than one.

D

Principal structure on the site: that's fine! We can do that too. Let's figure out where the rope goes.

C

Yeah it'd be good to do that yeah um and then, if you can, if you could apartment to get the.

D

Preliminary addressing straightened out um that'd be helpful to change your attack great. Do that.

I

Assassin, speaking of actors, so this would actually be a private.

I

Road, because that's of course so I would have it, it would be named yep.

M

M

We were going to call it the luster cluster, but I think maybe we could.

C

We did, I don't think I don't think so. They didn't go for blur exceptional.

A

Not since january so yeah like american, look back it may it may have gone. I can't remember because.

M

Before you went to many of you like a bad joke in front of the planning board, the luster cluster, I.

L

Feel, like that was said, yeah this goes back to 2000. You know early 2000s, oh okay, way back so.

M

We can, we can look late 2000s, we may have gone, I mean it wouldn't hurt. I mean I wouldn't be opposed.

M

To going back and getting some of their feedback in before we got the design nailed down anyway, so.

E

The eight inch sewer stub you guys are connecting on to I'm, assuming it's still.

E

Eight inch uh into the property is the main see, there's six inch sewer services. That's what we.

L

Were picturing was that if we're not 100, we haven't even got to the point where, if we're.

L

If we know we're running gravity yet um but yeah, we would presume.

L

That anything between the between the manholes would be eight inch all right.

L

Probably I mean I don't know if the road goes there, it may change.

L

How we end up sooner ring it.

L

All right so just email, we can email the three of you. I guess it would be the key.

L

People on the plans for the site, distance and the uh yeah do that yeah.

L

L

Would be, uh I guess, once we've resolved, that we don't need to come back for a pre-tack, we can go.

L

Right to design and come back with a real attack at that point, it's up to you all right, so you.

L

Don't mind if we come back again, one more time if anything arises all right. Thank you. Folks. Thanks.

A

All right next up, we have 815 lafayette road.

A

It's like playing review and experiment.

P

Take away good afternoon, everyone, uh neil hanson, with time bonds and mike brown, the owner of the.

Q

Property, um so we did preliminary at the ponyboy right you did. We did yeah, okay, let's just saying.

P

I think I think we've been there as well um so yeah so we're here for for work session.

P

um This is the old heb site on lafayette road route. One.

P

um So the project we're proposing is uh three uh 24 unit um apartment buildings. The.

P

Development will be um contained. Can you go back home actually, thank you. The the development area.

P

Is uh limited to the the front portion of the site where the uh the old radio station building is.

P

um As part of this project, we'll be removing the the building and all of the uh paved.

P

Parking areas that are within the 100 foot wetland buffer and pulling everything back.

P

um Up onto that uh higher area closer to the budding retail property uh we'll.

P

Also be reusing, the same, curb cut on route one um as well as.

P

Oh no nevermind, um you can go to the next sheet.

P

So yeah, so this is the uh the proposed plan. It's it's 324 unit buildings, uh they're four-story,.

P

Buildings, uh the first floor is uh under underground or underground, under building.

P

Parking there's 24 parking spaces within each building and then we also have some exterior.

P

Service parking well, which brings the total to 118 spaces, uh the third building into the site.

P

The last building also includes a leasing office for the development. It's a 1200 square footprint.

P

We also have a a path that runs along the backs of the buildings along the 100 foot buffer.

P

That will be included as community space, which will be required as part of this being.

P

A development site under the gateway regulations and then between buildings. Two and three, we have a.

P

Path down to a viewing overlook area that will be overlooking the the sagamore creek area we've kept.

P

That up at the top of the bank, so we won't have to do any disturbance within the 25 foot, setback or.

P

Along the the bank of the creek there it'll be up sort of within that existing disturbed area. That.

P

Will be um doing some buffer enhancements on as well? If you go to the next sheet.

P

So grading in storm water, the preliminary plan, where we're capturing the paved areas and the.

P

Roofs and running it into a detention system along the rear of the buildings, and that will be treated.

P

With a jellyfish unit, and then we also have a rain garden proposed up near the front of the site.

P

um Obviously, he's still early in the design. This isn't, you know fully vetted, but this is sort of.

P

The initial approach that that we're looking at for storm water treatment on the utility side.

P

uh We have had a meeting with eversource related to um how we're going to power the site so again.

P

The electric runs along the the rear of these buildings with transformers for each one and then.

P

We'll loop back to the existing overhead that runs along the property line, the overhead utility lines.

P

That are closer to the sagamore crates out of the property will also be removed. As part of this.

P

And then water and gas will come off of lafayette, as well as the proposed sewer for the project.

P

So, as part of this we'll, we will need a conditional use permit for work in the in.

P

The wetland buffer that work will be mostly just pulling out the existing impervious buildings.

P

And then the construction of that that overview area, um I don't think we've we've really looked.

P

At materials for that and we'd be open to working with the conservation commission on.

P

What they would like to see in that area um as well as some you know, buffer enhancements.

P

And plantings in the areas that were pulling out that existing pavement um and buildings.

P

I think that's sort of the general overview of the project uh we'd, obviously like to get as much.

P

Feedback and comments from this group as we can so we can incorporate it into the design of this.

P

Before we come back for for a formal submission all right, thanks comments and tech members.

I

Equal access, due to the height of the building's.

I

Aerial access roads required just for 26 feet to 24, but.

I

Apply turn around that meets one of the.

I

Turnarounds that contain independence day of 2018 ifc, bye-bye.

C

I just had some comments about the community space, I'm just not clear. Maybe I need a better.

C

Plan or a delineation showing the highest observable tideline, I just want to make sure.

C

You're at the back edge of the salt marsh, where you did that not just the rack line.

C

And then um it looks like you, it looks like when I see it on the plan, it shows it, but then you label.

C

Stuff as salt marsh, that looks like it's further up the bank. So when I look at the community space.

C

Plan that has that purple color it's got the salt marsh as community space. I don't know if that's.

C

What you intended or if that's mislabeled, but um I don't know you know that doesn't seem like.

C

That would be very functional community space. You couldn't really go into it and it's also pretty.

C

Well, protected by the state and the city, um it seems like if you're going to put community space.

C

Like that, you'd want to do it in an upland area or an adjacent area. Further inland than that to me.

C

um And then, while we're on the community space, I guess the other comment about community space is.

C

Where you have the green community space and the pocket park community space, this is all supposed.

C

To be publicly open to the public, I mean, I guess the public could go in there, but would they really.

C

Go into people's apartment buildings between them to use community space is kind of the question I.

C

Guess I have is: is it accessible, how are they going to get there? Is there a place for people.

C

To park, if they want to go in there and use it or do they have to walk in from lafayette road.

C

Just questions about the community space- I guess and we can talk more about it, but it's my initial.

C

Just looking at this initially, what I got my take on it, but the biggest one is where, where you've.

C

Got the edge of salt marsh that should be the hotline it looks like it is, but then does that.

C

Mean all the community space is in the salt marsh, a a good chunk of it is yeah. There's there is.

P

um Inland wetlands between there's a couple pockets of them um that are so the that's where.

P

The that highest observable tide kind of looks like it cuts into the salt marsh, because there's.

P

Some pockets of of england at the at the toe of that slope. um One sort of near the closer to the.

P

Lafayette road and then there's another one sort of up near the pinch point of the site there: okay.

C

So is the is the white area community space as well? No, no, what's that is just is that going.

C

To be, is that activated space at all, or so the the white is just that we're just showing the.

P

Overall, odd area as part of the calculation and so what's included right now is just the.

P

The trail, the pocket parks and then um everything in purple there, which does include the salt marsh.

C

Yeah, it just seems like that that area in the I guess it's the buffer yeah. I guess it. You know.

C

How how it qualify as being so regulated by the state and the city and the fact that it's.

C

Salt marsh community salt marsh: what do you mean it is? It is part of the property.

P

And it I understand it would count against us as part of the community space calculation.

P

Which would make me think that we should be able to include it as community space.

P

If it's part of the lot area like goes into that calculation, the percentage yeah.

P

I mean it's a substantial piece of land, that's yeah on the property.

K

I have to think about that. I've never seen it being used for that, and it seems like it's a.

C

Conservation area already by nature of how it's protected, so it's not like you can you're not.

C

Like you're, giving anything away or setting any aside for the community, it's more like it's area.

C

That's already protected and you're, calling it community space. I guess that's my take on it.

C

So, okay, that's my comment yeah. So ultimately the planning board's.

A

Gonna have to accept this if they consider this community space or not.

A

I mean, I think I don't know, what's playing for the rest of the upland portion.

A

But um all right, you know, I think, maybe like a perimeter trail or something would be more.

A

Visible for the public, if that, if that was an option.

A

It's something that the community could use.

C

Yeah I mean that's the attention of it is to get the community onto the property and using it so.

C

I guess that's.

P

Yeah we can, we can take another look at it with the team and okay see we can come up with.

I

It, um how is trash being managed? It looks like there might be some dumpsters in front of the.

D

Middle building yeah, we have a location in front of the middle building for for three dumpsters.

P

um And then the owner would have to work with a management company to.

P

Schedule pickups, depending on.

P

How much ease it gets? Okay, so there's no internal trash storage or anything so.

N

The in the parking garage or not the garage but underneath the first floor.

N

There you do need to have a handicap spot in there as well yeah. I think.

P

The layer might just not be on there, but I think I think yeah. I think the intent was that we would.

P

We would have one um yeah: they all need to be so they're all treated as separate lots, yeah yeah.

Q

I think it just didn't make the picture.

E

You may want to run just one eight inch main up with a hydrant at the end, instead of the two.

E

uh You know domestic and a fire all the way through to the end. Okay,.

E

Sorry for water, yeah.

H

I'm gonna need that blanket leak, detection right, yeah, amusement that we do.

E

Looks like the sewer connection is in the wetland buffers that would probably need a conditional.

E

Use permit as well peter uh if it's, if it's crowd, disturbance in the buffer, it would yep.

E

And we had some discussion on a placement of that sewer manhole, whether we would.

E

Want to yeah, we went back and forth. We decided that another superman is not where we want to.

H

Go okay, so we would do an insertity into that existing ec line, and then we put a.

H

Manhole just outside the right away: okay, so that we can clean it from there. So not.

H

Which is a lot easier? A lot cheaper.

K

That existing parking lot from the plaza neil. How does that drain how's? That drain down to.

H

This property, or does it- have some kind of containment system so that it doesn't drain.

H

That's why we don't know, I haven't seen a drainage study yet, but you need to look at.

H

That make sure that you don't have all kinds of off-site flow that you have to deal with. Okay,.

I

Oh by the way and they're like what I believe, the outfall there, the drainage off of lafayette.

E

Is is dot. She may need to talk to them about whether that outfall from the rain garden and.

E

The drainage all along the back uh can handle that or that area can handle these additional.

E

Flows that you're going to pipe there. Okay, is that drain. Going from that, there's a there's. The rain.

C

Garden and then this looks like a stone area and then a drain on the lafayette. Does it all make.

C

Its way into lafayette strain, uh no, that's not fall for the state drainage system. Yeah! That's.

C

The states- that's the states, I'll call into there so you're, using that same area got it yeah, okay,.

C

Foreign thing down below it, I believe: that's the billboard. Oh.

P

Oh, I did forget to mention we are doing a full traffic impact study for this project as well.

P

So that will be included when we submit formally.

A

Which no I'm just going to comment? You are going to the zoning board this month for two.

A

Variances, yes, yeah. We did switch to the zoning board um for the front law line, build out and.

P

I think yeah yeah, the front facade is not parallel right.

N

What's the significance of that 100 foot right away to the north of the.

N

Site is that another possible future access to this, that portion of the site.

N

Foreign on cheat c5.

P

Oh it's up here. This thing: do you know the story with that, so that there's a.

Q

Right away, but the question is, is where it can dump out too.

Q

Because it goes right into the pump station and there's an oreo stop light right there. So.

Q

The question is, is you know where would we be able to access lafayette road from that.

Q

Because if you go down on the page, that's where the stop light is and then obviously up a little.

Q

Bit is where the pump station is so to make an access point. There would be very difficult.

Q

Unless you guys are interested in that.

N

I didn't know if it gave you rights to come to the stoplight through there, their property or not.

Q

uh It doesn't technically go to the stoplight yeah.

K

H

So there are other easements that go through those parking, lots and you're, not necessarily a party to.

H

Those so that all those other parcels can get to the stop signal the signal margaritas. It appears.

Q

That way it it appears that way. You know um we were trying to simplify the project. To be honest,.

Q

With you and keep it on the lower side of the the land without getting into a bunch of different.

Q

uh We're just trying to keep the project simple at this point, yep.

H

The antenna is staying in the back, the large one is yes, the small one was a.

Q

Removed by the previous owner, which is what it shows, an antenna being removed. But between the.

Q

Process of coming in to planning the initial presentation they had in the in the purchase.

Q

Agreement had we made it, so they had to take it down and they have since removed that hour. The.

Q

Small tower that was there, but the big one on the back is stick that is staying and we do not own it.

Q

We own the property around it, but we don't own the tower. Okay, uh the access road that is staying.

H

This day, so that needs to be kind of extended through the end of the parking lot yeah. That's.

Q

Where we kind of made the you see where it kind of comes to a ahead and make that blend together.

H

But that's in the buffer zone is that why you're not sure uh the existing road is yeah? Yes, that's.

Q

The dotted line the buffer's on that's why we did the path where it is so we could try and stay out.

Q

Of the buffer zone and the the place where you can look over sagamore creek, we put that in.

Q

Because we figured it'd be a nice amenity, but if everybody doesn't want it we'll just take it out.

P

That road does connect through it's just the where we cut the line doesn't meet the curb which it.

P

In reality, will so it's just a layering thing we'll need to clean up in that little park is.

Q

Basically, what's already cleared out, and we were just thinking that we would work with you guys.

Q

To put in a something that you know or something just to kind of get out there and be able to look.

Q

At it, since it's already cleared, but if it doesn't work for everybody, then we just take it out and we.

Q

Have one less thing: we've we're trying to go to com with it. His little impact is if any and.

Q

Obviously, we have to have it in order to remove all the stuff. That's within that 100 foot setback.

Q

So that's why we have to do it, so we figured we'd put something in there. That would have a.

Q

Nice view, because if you go down in that area, it's really it's- it's actually beautiful to look over.

Q

And we just figured it'd, be a nice thing with the public to go in there and be able to look over and.

Q

You know in the future if we went to the state, for maybe a kayak launch or something.

Q

Like that, it would already be set up for that, but on the same token, um you know if.

Q

It's creating too much heartache for people, then we just remove it and it is what it is.

C

I don't think the heart. The overlook is where the issue is for me: it's the community space being the whole salt marsh.

C

And then the accessibility there's no public access in the back behind the plaza right.

H

Yeah, are there trails back there uh sort of it's something I think there are to the east.

P

On um the adjacent property, maybe or two properties over and those trails go to like.

Q

Nothing you have to cross the creek in order to get across over there, where everybody's thinking.

Q

You can get over to the high school there's a creek that kind of on the next property.

H

It's kind of system that drains the clearance the pond in the fields yeah and it's yeah. You.

C

Got to hop across it low tide or you can't get across it correct and creates a lot more.

Q

People just traveling, through with it yeah there's a lot of people that use that area.

Q

That might be, but if it was short term it'd be great.

C

It is a really nice connection to the open space if there's a way to activate it all.

C

Take some it would take some planning. I think um I agree, but it's a big area.

H

A

It's good just yeah. You have any other questions. I think we're.

C

Good all right all right, thank you. Thank you. Guys appreciate your time.

Q

A

Next up, we have 581 lafayette road.

B

Good afternoon attack committee members, john tragman, from eminent zone, kaylee ward,.

B

With me here today is tracy kozak part of the architect and I'll fix bruton, legal counsel.

B

For the applicant we're here to talk about the additional site, development at 581, lafayette, road.

B

Appreciate the opportunity to get your feedback on our submission.

B

So the plan that you see up there is the existing conditions plan. The site was.

B

Going back to those who remember was it cinema, which was then converted into the tuscan.

B

Restaurant and marketplace the restaurant occupied the the north end of the building as reconfigured.

B

And the marketplace was the south end and that building was sort of left in the same place. It.

B

Wasn't a complete teardown, they saved front of the building and rebuilt. So the building placement has.

B

Kind of been forged over many years, it is where it is. Ledgewood drive, is on the north lafayette road.

B

On the west and the lafayette road ledgewood drive, intersection was reconfigured in around 2011.

B

The property was extended out, it's kind of this kind of a faint line that runs from the.

B

Lafayette road frontage about a third of the way south of the north part of the building.

B

And then has a curve and then runs just past the corner of the existing building. That's where the.

B

Right away used to be when the intersection was redone to eliminate the route 1 bypass.

B

Flyover bridge that used to be how you would access the how you would access lafayette road.

B

The continuation of lafayette road after the high school, so they took they did a stop intersection.

B

And reconfigured, so there was some land that was created. Some of it got deeded to the 581 and.

B

Then some of it became a large open space area in front of 581.. There's a parking spaces along the.

B

Back and the south side, some landscaping in the front, it's a drive-in entrance as you come off of.

B

Lafayette road to access as you come along, wedgewood drive and there's a second entrance.

B

Further down, the first entrance is a one-way inn which continues through as you exit the plazas.

B

Plural, because the development of this area was done with shared use.

B

Agreements for parking and access- and it was actually a single property all the way from.

B

A two houses down from south street all the way to sagamore creek at one time.

B

This part was the orchards and there were fields and other parts anyway, too much history.

B

um So, as you come from the south through the rest of the development, you have to take a.

B

Right turn and exit through the back side, so the proposal is to put some additions on the property.

B

um That I can go back to that one peter. It's just a demolition plan so highlighted in the shaded.

B

um Colors are the areas that would be removed, some walkways and.

B

um Then there's a cut line for pavement there'll be a lot of pavement that will be taken out to be.

B

Regraded repurposed us a lot of that will be under the proposed editions. The next sheet shows the.

B

The proposed [music] additions to the existing building, so the project proposes to add.

B

Structures to the existing building and we've kind of color highlighted this, because there.

B

Are various levels to the addition, in that the additions are the um blue, green, exterior.

B

Perimeter but the green area is an area where there's basement below and what we're showing.

B

Here is, what's at the first floor level, so uh there's a basement below and then at the first.

B

Floor level, there's parking that is accessed at grade so, as you come in from the north side, second.

B

Entrance off of ledgewood there's some parking spaces that you would turn in and then further.

B

Down there's some stack spaces. You turn in and then there's a larger area that you would turn.

B

Into an aisle that runs from east to west and has parking associated with it on either side, the blue.

B

Areas are, and then the green also has upper floor space space above, but not all of the green. The.

R

The left side is what we call building a the right side is, building b underground is connected, but.

R

Above ground, it's never connected. It's always a part and you'll see that on the upper floors.

B

So the blue represents the [music] basement area and upper floors, and uh it is at the first.

B

Floor level, which we see here, building not accessible parking, so you have a.

B

Starting from the south, you have a stair core, you have another elevator core and then some building that is located in the sort of.

B

Middle of the building and then another stair core and access and storage.

B

On the north end, then there's a little purple area shown on the east side of the building and.

B

That is basement only level, so we have some zoning information on the top left. The imperial surface.

B

Calculations at this time, the lot coverage is 82 percent.

B

And the zone has a, I believe, a 20 open space, but the property was granted a.

B

Variance in the previous redevelopment to go to, I believe it was 16 and a half.

B

So we're increasing the open space with this proposal, so the next sheet.

B

Shows- and I sorry peter sir, should have gone gone back and stayed there for one second, so.

B

On the north side, we're adding an entrance to ledgewood drive that would access the building.

B

It would come off a little bit west of that second entrance, which is relocated a little.

B

Bit to the east, and then it would go to the building with the garage door and access a ramp.

B

And now the next sheet shows the basement level, so uh there's a ramp on sheet right. That brings.

B

The grade change down to a lower level of parking, and this shows the layout of the parking spaces.

B

Also included on this page are all the unit areas and parking counts.

B

And calculations, regarding conformance to the code for a number of parking spaces and the.

B

Conformance requires, or it conforms because there's 13 spaces not on.

B

Site but there are agreements in place for shared parking amongst the other.

B

Properties within that development plaza area, so the 13 would be available off site.

B

The next sheet shows utilities, so currently a lot of the utilities come into the back of the.

B

Existing building, so we've made arrangements or shown here some relocation of utilities.

B

And I guess we've just learned earlier today that the electrical will have to go under the slab.

B

Not be on the on the side wall so yeah, I actually looked it up so.

J

um Specifically for for town houses yeah, what it says is that the the electrical.

J

Cannot penetrate the firewall starting the slab all the way up through to the roof? So that's for.

J

Townhouses because they didn't want them going across okay, so we'll have to look this up for.

J

The rest of it, you just have to default to the um to the uh to the to the current electrical code.

J

To the 23 nfpa 70 right, so whatever it says in there for for service for feeders to the service.

J

Is what you would apply to this project so you'll have to look that up? Okay, all right! Thank you.

B

um So right now I think, there's a there's a radial electrical feed that comes from lafayette, road.

B

Pole out there to a transformer on the northeast side of the building, because the property is.

B

Being converted to residential use is going to have to be a loop feed, so we're showing a new.

B

Transformer at that lafayette, road pole and then running the conduit into the building around out.

B

To the existing transformer and then coming from that transformer and running out along.

B

Ledgewood drive to connect back to the electrical grid service at the lid, with lafayette corners.

B

The gas service is currently comes off at the ledgewood side to the metering on the building.

B

And all we need to do, there is reroute the service, it would come into the same.

B

Place as long as the utility providers are, okay with that, and then.

B

The sewer would be displaced by the construction of the basement level, so we've shown a taking the.

B

Existing sewer service and again connecting that service that comes out of the existing structure.

B

Running along the new basement wall, with the sewer pipe coming out on the west side at the beginning,.

B

Of the addition area to a new manhole and a second manhole and then connecting to the sewer.

B

In a manner and location that is similar to the existing flow there's a grease trap that would be.

B

Impacted by the construction of the basement, so what we would we're proposing is that the.

B

Grease trap be put in the basement area, so whatever requirements there as far as.

B

Link code for portsmouth code relief would be looking to talk to you about that.

B

That covers the utilities, the next plan, so the sewers.

H

It's above it right right now the existing building is slab on grade, so uh you would be.

B

Able to grab the sewer and make it go, it would go gravity, it could go by gravity along the proposed.

B

Basement wall and come out grease truck and so the grease trap. If you go back peter to the.

B

Lower level plan, what we would propose is that the grease trap be placed on top of the basement slab.

B

And then there would be a pump force main.

E

So it would be sitting in the basement in the basement. Okay,.

B

But very accessible so and obviously you're worried about a car hitting it.

B

There are you, how do you so the covers and stuff are eight feet in the air.

B

So there'd probably have to be a flyway to get to the covers and stuff like that.

B

Yeah, it's it's going to be uh take some shop, drawings and design. Yes, yeah, okay,.

B

um And part of the issue with not you could go gravity all the way out, but it would be too long.

B

To run you know what I mean, because you got to have it closer to the source, so we're trying.

B

To work this that way, yeah um next plan, as far as the um grading and drainage, um the property.

B

And it's not really shown, but it will be detailed with the complete submission right now. The.

B

Property flows, two directions: uh a lot of the west goes to the collection system that is coming off.

B

Of lafayette, road and taking drainage, it runs down further and then I believe it cuts back across.

B

You know it either cuts back across or it goes to that outfall that you were talking about before.

B

And then the back side uh collects and goes across ledgewood and goes to an outfall in sagamore creek.

B

In the back, so the design here is going to be mimicking. The existing flow patterns by.

B

uh Apportioning the roof drainage we're going from parking lot to roof, so we're going to very.

B

Carefully apportion the roof drains to match the existing flow, so you've got a couple of connection.

B

Points one being on the top left or southwest, so that replaces a drain that goes out and collect.

B

Some of the parking lot run off. That's to the left of that connection and then the next connection.

B

Is on the bottom left of the page, and that will be another roof drain that will mimic the area.

B

That flows to the other uh drain that is being removed, that's under the stairwell and actually.

B

The drainage scheme for the previous approval had a water quality unit in the back and we're going.

B

To replace that water quality unit- and this area I just spoke of- did not go to the water.

B

Quality unit, so we're going to be introducing more runoff that gets treated by the water quality unit.

B

And then they can flow to pick up on that. What's left of that, driveway aisle outside the.

H

South south wall they're, not necessarily showing yet right. The degrading goes that.

B

Way so we'll make sure it continues that way. Yep is that what you mean yeah you're, going.

H

To need to pick up some flow out there, yep outside the building, yeah right, yep and the.

B

um So that cb2 will stay then there's a an existing roof drain for the building out front.

B

That's in the on the east side of the building out front about the middle and we're going to run that.

B

Connect that in a manner that will bring it out to the front and connect it to a proposed catch basin.

B

The jog is there to line up with the column lines in the parking below and then some of the drainage.

B

From ledgewood drive, just south of ledgewood drive runs over and we would reroute that.

B

To the new set of basins and piping along the east side of the relocated drive, so you.

B

Can kind of see by the contours that the driveway is moving to the east.

B

Not shown here, but in the final design, there'll probably be a retaining wall.

B

At the terminus, or just somewhere before the property line to allow for the grade change.

B

um And then I don't know if tracy you want to talk about the architectural plan sure so we.

R

The basic concept is, we have two two buildings which are separate and separate from each other.

R

And attached to the existing podium construction, there's one level underground, which is what you.

R

See here basement, which is one parking area, one podium structure underground. We have a total.

R

Of 135, we have 136 135 spaces in the building, most of it's underground. Some of it's upstairs.

R

This is at grade, which we've been talking about. The pochette area is the existing.

R

Restaurants, tour and the thai restaurant to the left. The addition to the left is.

R

What we call building a the addition to the bottom right is: building b the space.

R

In between is open to the air above, and that is for deliveries for the restaurant.

R

The five that's five story building are a total of.

R

72 units of rental housing, 20 percent uh minimum, will be workforce, rental housing, a variety of unit.

R

Sizes, ranging from a studio to we, have a couple of large units which may qualify as boarding.

R

House use at the top at the end of building at the street facing ends of each building on each floor.

R

And the in the purpose of that is for extremely affordable housing, traditional housing, where.

R

There would be a roommate situation, the smaller units are envisioned would be private, rentals.

R

And they both each building building a and building b every unit has access.

R

To a balcony, there are two fire stairs and one elevator.

R

Per building and it gets smaller as you go up with step backs from the street.

R

And if you go to the next couple of pages, you can see that transitioned the top floor. um I think if.

R

You go one more level. Five, uh the ends facing the streets of each building has a rooftop community.

R

Deck and a rooftop lounge available to all rest all residents of the buildings they're fairly.

R

Large, those are the kind of the big amenity for the property um in terms of within the building.

G

Yeah and then we have substantial solar arrays on top of each building, we're trying to get as close.

R

To net zero as possible, um that is our our goal: we're not quite there yet, but we'll at least have.

R

A 50 reduction of of baseline energy usage and we're going to try to get it as close as we can.

R

And elevations we are pursuing, so we are pursuing as john mentioned 36 units.

R

Per building as the incentive, as whereas the base ordinance allows 24 per building because.

R

Of workforce we're going with 36 units per building and we are also pursuing the extra.

R

Floor level of height for five stories, instead of four at 50 feet,.

R

We meet the modulation and building length requirements for both buildings, a and.

R

Building b they are connected underground, but we figured out the basement. So I don't.

R

Think the modulation facade requirements apply to underground. That was our approach.

R

um We've just taken uh we're paying special attention to sun shading and.

R

To try to reduce solar heat gain while allowing natural light and access to.

R

The outdoor for every resident, we think that's really important for healthy living.

R

Other than that, it's pretty uh simple trying to keep these units cost effective and functional.

R

And these are just some renderings, some 3d views to show you the masking. We have.

R

A lot of detailing to do, but this will give you an idea of how it looks from the road.

B

And yeah, I think that's the that's the set so we're looking forward to some feedback today.

B

Anything else to add um just again: my name is fx brewton with bruton and beruby uh properties.

S

Obviously, in the g1 zone uh combining this as a mixed-use building, the gold.

S

Creating that zone was to create some flexibility and design. So as part of that, some of the relief.

S

We might need, for instance, the setback from the frontage. My we understand we can deal with at the.

S

Planning board level in terms of as part of the cop that we'll ask for so we're looking forward to.

S

Maybe sitting down with both peter and peter again just to kind of go through exactly where we're at.

S

In terms of those requirements, that's all I have thanks and there is a requirement because we're.

B

On lafayette road regarding the setback from the center line of the road and right, I think, because.

A

You're getting the requesting the incentives, you can ask for modifications from the sections from.

A

The gateway zone so yeah it would be good to meet separately and yeah, doesn't come onto the property.

B

So I don't know how that impacts. We can ask for that, but that's just something because you're.

G

Going you're asking for the incentives through the workforce housing you can right, but the yeah.

B

The 90 foot setback from the center line doesn't even get to the property right. He doesn't reach it.

C

Doesn't reach the property because they relocated the road and they have that large, open spaces.

K

A

All right welcome out for comments from tech.

E

um So we aren't opposed to a second fire service coming into the other building.

E

um Just a question on if the existing one would be able to uh yeah sprinkler uh the two additional.

E

Buildings put on okay, yep yeah, we're, I believe, we've engaged the mep with that question. So.

I

Okay, I'm not sure that we would view these as separate buildings.

R

Underneath with so, we like, basically it's four buildings right, the existing buildings building.

R

One, the underground parking and level one uh underground parking, is building two and then.

R

um Building three and four are the above ground separate buildings, so we would have horizontal.

R

Fire separation, as well as vertical, where they attached to the existing the two new additions.

R

Are far enough apart that they don't need fire separation up above so the area limitations in.

J

Other words you're creating a three hour: fire separation, so that you can reset your.

J

Area limitation is that under or is it unlimited? It's not based on area limitations. It's um based.

R

On construction type because of the parking right right and then, of course, the existing building is.

R

A different construction type in use, so we need the fire separation from that as well. Okay, so.

J

The basement level, though the construction type yeah um you have unlimited area, is that correct.

K

Okay, all right so there's, okay! So there's no! So you can go as big as you want down below and.

J

Then, once we get up above then we have different construction type. We need to separate yeah, okay.

I

But uh yeah I mean we dealt with this before the old county bean center um and it gets.

I

Confused- and I mean I get it from a technical standpoint but from a response standpoint.

I

You're down in the lower level- and you don't know what sprinkler system you're feeding like it, gets.

I

We try to avoid having multiple systems and what is.

I

Essentially, one building as far as response as far as how we.

R

So we could do separate sprinkler rooms. Perhaps we do separate entrances, that's what we were talking.

R

About right, because we showed an entrance that could be done, yeah off of lafayette.

B

But yeah, I think, he's saying I'd. Rather it's a split only served by just one single system.

I

I

um Two fire time connections, one on each side of.

I

The building, but they were both feet- the same system.

I

I

The hydraulic demand of the system right because it's based on it's going to be based on the.

I

Fifth, floor 1500 square feet regardless, so it should really increase hydraulic.

I

Do you have the the pressure for five floors there without a pump? I don't know yeah.

B

The system pressure you mean the street pressure or sorry. I didn't.

G

Know what was the question? What was the question? Not pressure to supply.

I

um You know 1500 square feet of sprinklers on the fifth floor, of whatever volume that is.

I

But it might actually be less than that because it's residential.

I

No, you wouldn't want to determine that because if you don't and you need a fire pump run, then your sprinkler room has to have a door direct to the outside.

I

Okay, now what you can do is lay down because there's an outside wall there.

R

Yeah, well, we can add one to the building a and building b. It's already right there, um the outside.

B

Could you you could actually also if it's connected internally, you could move the.

B

Sprinkler room to the other side and make that the sprinkler one right, yeah yeah,.

I

What are the implications of the having it be? A mixed use.

I

So they it all falls under our r2.

R

um So it's still one use group with different use types within that same use, group of r2, so nfpa so.

R

We'll need some fire separations. You may not yeah we'll have to. This is a tricky building. um There's.

R

A lot of fire separations going on here for sure I know there was a problem with um the sole project.

I

Yeah we're redesigning that to be smaller apartment because it was a single exit, yeah.

I

Yeah, so you might be able.

J

To be okay in here, I thought it was more of a zoning implication. Is it allowed use? There's.

C

A some two zoning questions, one is if it's a boarding house, the maximum number in a boarding.

C

House is 10., it will be a lodging or roaming house. I don't know how that applies to zoning. Well, it's.

R

Not short-term stay it's long, it's one year, yeah! So enlarging a rooming house definition at least.

J

An nfpa right is, we call it a boarding house yeah zoning would be different right sure, I'm not sure.

C

Yeah: okay, either way they're in npa. Lodging enrollment is exactly it's permanent uh with.

J

Or without meals, right um and without separate cooking facilities was exactly what this is yeah.

C

But we say no more than 10 people in arizona ordinance, so that might need a variance if you.

C

Go that route, and I we kind of thought it would be worth you weighing in from the building code.

C

Standpoint and safety standpoint what's better, the other option is the definition of family is three.

C

Three or fewer three unrelated three unrelated one plus people, which is why the four bedroom one.

I

Doesn't kick it in, but that was in nfpa 2015, not 2018.. I think I think we got removed in the 18th.

R

The family language- I don't know if it's relevant, though they're qualifying themselves as a lodging.

J

A rooming house so they're not trying to say this is a single family. It's not a unit. Well, it has to.

C

Meet I mean, I guess this. I guess the bottom line is it's not really anticipated in our zoning and.

C

We just have to figure out where it fits and the best fit from a building code. Standpoint.

C

And a zoning standpoint and whether it needs a variance or not, we need to work through that yeah.

A

Right, I guess the bigger question is the larger units that have seven bedrooms. What is that.

A

But yeah multiple fives, more fives yeah over anything over four of us and and I think the.

C

Parking implication of it's going to be something that gets brought up for sure. You know how's the.

C

How's, the parking need going to be met, and can you come up with this uh rationale? You know a parking.

C

Demand study that works for this site, and maybe that includes your scooter spots and your bike.

C

Spots and car share, or whatever you're gonna you know make your argument on, would need to see. Okay.

R

Okay, we do have a lot of bike and scooter parking.

N

Other questions on parking as well looking looking at the plans is like several sheets.

N

Show little squares or circles within the parking spaces are those columns or like 6a and 9a. Both.

E

Have what appear to be columns in them? Oh those are not located correctly yet, but there will be.

R

Some columns in there we've oversized the spaces so that each space has an extra foot of width and.

R

Once we figure out the actual structural location of the columns, we'll start to define the islands.

R

Between the spaces, accordingly, just not there yet, and the tandem spaces are looks like on the lower.

N

Level parking there's, definitely tandem spaces because you're underground, but on the first floor.

N

At grade are those the castle from the outside as well. The ones on the left at grade are accessible.

R

From both sides, um the ones to the right, you would have- are there or go to the site plan.

B

Pb102, I think oh no, if he had it up, did he have it up this one mickey had it up. He had it up. Sorry.

G

And those are only from one side, so those are truly tandem. Those.

G

Would be a sign, those would be the same unit. Are they not all assigned.

I

Yeah um so actually shared. This is a shared from what I recall the owner saying the on this level.

R

The ones on the left that are accessible from both sides would be for the restaurant in the.

R

Tandem spaces and the ones to the right and underground would be for residents.

R

Because this also serves the existing restaurant, as well as the outdoor parking yeah. Yes, yeah.

N

Because I think it's like 112 spaces needed for the restaurant, but you only have maybe 40. outside.

N

Of the structure yeah so with the new design, there's 33 spaces that are open to the air and.

R

The others are covered in the parking spaces in the front that aren't shown here. They remain.

N

And then but our 10, the space is required to both be signs. The same unit yeah.

R

It's also worth mentioning. I know you know this, but there's a bus stop right there as well.

E

The length on these parking spaces 18 feet.

E

Believe: okay, let's see it's supposed to be 38 total for 38 total for tandem, yeah.

A

And 19 other ones 19. right and then the drive aisle needs to be what at least 22 22.. Yes,.

A

Except for community space, just having the rooftop decks or so community space includes.

B

Outdoor dining, so if you go back to the site plan and we need to put some numbers to it,.

B

So that there's a space up in the um sort of where the buildings come together on the south.

B

End, oh yeah right there that was approved outdoor dining for the thai restaurant and then on the.

B

North end, that space is outdoor space, that's for for the tour or people from the restaurant.

I

Not but yeah I mean that's part of their learning. License is included in that. I'm not sure that.

I

Would cool, but I think the ordinance says that restaurant outdoor spaces counties community space.

D

I thought it was public realm. Improvements were needed to.

C

Yeah, I think, would have more accessible. I have look it up. The orders just change in that regard.

B

I'm talking about the august 7th jane, we had we added some community space types but yeah.

D

If you could do an incentive section in your cover letter or some sort of.

D

Incentive analysis that goes through how you meet each section. That would be.

B

Good with me, if I'm wrong, but that's part of the section that talks about.

B

The whole section can be elements of the section can be waived by the planning board yeah in the.

C

Five in the process of the conditionally use permit application right right. But if you go for.

A

More than one incentive you're going for dwelling units per building, 36 and then also height, yes,.

A

So you have to provide workforce, housing and public realm improvements.

A

Check that out, okay, okay, yep yeah, I mean we look forward to sitting down with you guys and kind of.

S

Parsing through all that, make sure we get what we need and what we need to ask for. Obviously,.

I

It's a separate note: the solar you're showing, even though this this part of.

I

This it doesn't have any adequate width for the perimeter right. The cleaners, okay,.

I

Depend on the size of it we'll make that more accurate.

C

So is there any specific, green building type we're using or just doing a green design.

C

You're not meeting any standard or trying to oh, uh it won't be certified as.

R

Going for reducing the energy usage primarily and hopefully it'd be great. If we can try to use some.

R

Low carbon materials, definitely in the envelope installation we're looking at options for the.

R

Floor slab, it looks like ivc, 21 might be, in effect by the time.

R

Permit drawings are issued, which is way down the road which has some additional options for type.

R

4 construction, if it gets adopted, if it gets it, if you will but I'll, be stuck with the 18, but so yeah.

R

um Currently, we're starting out of the gate with type 2b construction above the podium, but.

R

Trying to use low carbon materials in the envelope fruit and then low energy, and it's all electric, no.

R

Electric um there's probably going to be two gas fireplaces.

C

There's some gas to the existing existing gases there yep yeah, that would stay for the existing.

C

uh I decided one other question: it was about the drainage to sagamore creek.

C

Is that all private drainage, through the ledgewood or is that do you know about that?.

C

Yeah, where does that come out? Is that that little pipe that comes into the.

C

Creek behind the high school, I'm back there once it's been many years, though yeah I've.

C

Seen the pipe I just didn't know where it came from. I guess this is where it comes from.

B

Yeah and it it goes and grabs more drainage from the rest of the development, so yeah well.

B

Then it goes through ledgewood, but it go right to ledgewood. I'm sorry yeah, probably it's pretty high.

B

Six: six: no, I think it might go along the back of the mall or.

B

Grab more drainage before it goes through ledgewood and then out under that huge.

C

Outcrop or further down just all the way down to the river before the ledge outcrop, because.

S

Because the so the I mean the 100 foot right away just goes way back to when the beginnings of this.

B

Were being developed in the property in the back chose to put their road.

B

Where ledgewood is now, you know that big development acts they could have accessed.

B

Through that 100 foot that they came in the side and then that became electric.

B

But the bigot rock out crops are behind the margaritas and.

B

You've got the whole bowlarama, that's south of here, so it takes off before okay through there.

C

And then goes a long way across country boy.

G

So it doesn't go through college now.

N

um Yeah so back to the park, I think just need to show the dimensions of everything and make.

N

Sure they all meet requirements and lengthen with the miles and things like that. Some of.

N

Them seemed really tight, especially in the basement to maneuver in there.

N

Some of those candle spaces like 16 a and b.

D

Going off of the parking, how are you a.

D

Sport, or will it be assigned well, as as I mentioned before, the part of the.

R

Of the first floor, spaces that are accessible from.

R

The drive aisles would be assigned to the restaurants, tour and the thai restaurant.

R

Everything below grade and the spaces to the right would be assigned to apartment, renters, tenants.

D

Okay, are you assigning the handicap? Please marked those would probably be guest spaces. I.

R

Imagine unless there is a handicapped tenant, they would get a handicap space assigned.

C

Is there accessible apartments or are they all across alone?.

R

We haven't got that far yet yeah we've gotten some that are, I believe there will have to be some that.

J

Are designated there's a minimum requirement which I believe is 10, but um I can't remember.

J

Yeah, but there is a number, though right right, so they won't all be 100 accessible. um The entrances.

R

In and out of, each apartment are accessible, so you can visit your friends, but not every bathroom. In.

R

The building will be a wheelchair bathroom and some will need to be designed that in the future.

J

If they need to be type a type b, adaptable right, that'll, you'll figure all that out in design sage.

F

A lot of that is just bars and features like that right, general layouts, yeah vehicle.

G

Assistance, how does the shared parking agreement work with the butters right? You know, you're, taking.

N

Some credit for that parking, but how do you limit how much credit you can take? How much can you take.

S

There's not much uh in terms of that limit in that agreement.

S

Certainly work with the everyone involved. You know, but uh it's not it's not that defined yeah.

R

When that agreement was drafted is when it was the jerry lewis cinema, so there was a much larger.

R

Parking load on the building at certain times. This will be a very different parking use with.

R

72 units of housing, as opposed to a movie theater, so it seems within reason and not.

R

Far off from what was originally envisioned many years ago, but yeah those will be discussions with.

R

Your butter to make sure they're on board what the plan to have is what to be assigned parking.

J

For the um for the apartments or for the units, or you show up and all those places are taken.

J

Up on this parcel, and now I've got to go to the voters to find a spot to park. Yeah we'd have to.

S

Look at how to kind of coordinate that I don't think we've gotten that! Well, so we have 72 units.

R

And there's 136 spaces inside the building, so I think we have extra well new randoms have to.

N

Be to one unit, though right yeah, because you had seven unit five units, how many actual some have.

R

Multiple veterans, so I'm not sure exactly which unit will get two spaces or which unit gets one or.

J

um How many occupants are you know how many occupants, how many bedrooms there are actually.

J

For these for the buildings you know, oh, I don't that's a good number to have. I haven't done.

R

That haven't no, how many bedrooms in the total building yeah yeah! Well, we can get there yeah.

E

uh The sewer, um I think, 72 additional dwelling.

E

Units uh to the existing sewer look downstream to make sure handle it.

D

um Prior to planning gorgeous middle just make sure you submit a draft workforce housing covenant.

D

A review from paralegal definitely.

N

Peter, have you reviewed the parking calculations on the decimals? You.

N

Know the fractional spaces doing. I don't know how I can deal with those.

N

1.3 yeah, I mean where it's all added up. Do you add up do you round when do you round.

N

How often you're around you know? How do you round things like that? We need to review that yeah. Okay,.

N

And you got there's the loading spot out back. He said it was for the restaurant.

N

I think it's in between the two buildings- yeah yep, there's a so there's a trash room to so there's.

R

That drive through between navy yeah right there, so the right is a trash room and if you just go.

R

Straight back, those are gates that go into um an open area for deliveries for the restaurant yeah.

R

If you could just show you know a truck turning maneuver getting in and out of there yeah be.

E

Worth it for the other trash room under building a as well yeah the trap yeah the trash room for.

R

Fee is much larger. The trash room for building a is not envisioned for the restaurant. It's just.

R

For the apartment use, so it's smaller and I don't envision. Trucks would be backing into that garage.

R

That, though, that would be more of a rolling out totes to the drive uh way the drive aisle.

N

So and it will be two separate driveways out back, some of these plans show it.

N

A bend in the driveway and being one driveway on pb 102. It looks like yeah.

I

So that that's not yeah, that's been updated by the site. Civils yeah, all right.

A

A

K

Thank you. Thank you very much thanks a lot.

A

All right with that we'll adjourn for the day. Thank you.