City of Punta Gorda 2021 Burnt Store Isles Canal Advisory Committee, 8 Jun 2021

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From YouTube: Burnt Store Isles Canal Advisory Committee 6-8-2021

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Burnt Store Isles Canal Advisory Committee 6-8-2021

A

So much too, they can't just live out of the.

A

B

C

D

D

E

I guess it's that time isn't it looks like it.

E

E

Meeting in a bark store, isle canal advisory committee will come to order. Let's start with the pledge of allegiance.

E

Please I pledge allegiance to the fight.

D

For the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

E

Oh, our next scheduled meeting is july 13th. Does anybody have any problems with that?

E

Okay sounds like we're good there moving right along, um I guess approval of. Let's see. No, actually, we got uh citizens comments on the agenda items only.

B

Excuse me, mr chairman,.

E

Yeah did I have to do.

B

Roll call first.

E

Okay, did I miss roll call? I'm sorry, you did.

B

It's okay, we'll keep you in line, yeah fight.

E

You keep me straight.

C

All right so uh david perkins ian milne.

F

C

Shawn harrigan here rick dardy, here norman ashworth,.

C

B

Then next we have the election of chairman.

E

Okay, we've got to redo that again, don't we.

C

There was a procedural error during the last meeting, so we're going to open the floor for nominations for chairman at this time.

G

C

Okay, do we have.

G

C

All right, any other nominations, last call for nominations. In that case, we're going to do a vote by show of hands those in favor of uh rick dardy raise your.

D

Hand, sorry it's okay,.

C

And those in favor of sean harrigan.

C

All right, so you have been appointed.

F

Elected chair again.

C

By a majority of the board, so at this time.

C

F

Our base chair.

C

Do we need to do vice chair? We do too yeah.

E

I think we do that's right.

C

We will also open the floor for nominations for vice chair at this time.

H

So uh sean harrigan I'd like to nominate norm ashworth.

D

I'm nominated sean.

C

Do you have any other nominations at this time? Last call for nominations right same process, those in favor of norman ashworth. Please raise your hand.

C

And those in favor of sean harrigan, please.

F

Raise your hand.

C

All right, in that case, you have been elected vice chair by a majority of members.

C

If it is okay at this time, I would also like to go ahead and swear in our participants for the quasi-judicial public hearing, so everyone who is planning on participating, please stand and raise your right hand. If you would like to offer testimony.

C

Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in today's proceedings? I do when you're ready to speak during the public hearing. Please come to the podium state, your name and indicate that you have been sworn thank.

E

You, okay, you got that done. I guess approval.

B

Of the minutes now uh well, we gotta do citizens comments.

E

Oh citizens, comments: okay, yeah alrighty.

E

Does anybody have any comments concerning agenda items.

E

Okay, nobody has any comments moving knowing then right, so we have to approval.

B

Of minutes, yes,.

H

Yeah move sean harrigan. I move to approve the minutes as.

E

Presented okay motion's been made in second, any further comments.

E

None all in favor all right opposed, carries moving right along. I guess we're up to reports then kathy.

B

Okay, I wanted to bring back to the board again this month the um replacement results. I just wanted to bring to your attention because you guys are going to be talking about budgets today. I just wanted to bring to your attention that, um as of 2020, we have replaced almost three miles of sea walls in the burnt store isles district that is 16 of the of the walls in your district. Okay, so it's 2.93, so we have 18 18 miles in burnt store aisles, so we still have 15 miles of original wall.

B

I'm not saying those walls need to be replaced. I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just giving you some statistics, because you guys are going to be making some decisions today. Okay, did you guys have any questions about the information that has been provided to you? As far as the statistics go.

H

All right so kathy sean harry, just one question previously, you had presented uh a, I don't know a breakdown of how bad the walls were. You know rated one through five correct nothing's changed from that. It's still, the data is still what it is.

B

Correct the data is the same. um I just wanted you guys to have a snapshot of how much sea wall we've replaced in the past years. How much has been replaced? How much remains as original wall? The the condition of the wall is still the same.

H

Okay and if I'm running from memory, we've got roughly 14 000 feet in front of us, that is in some state of disrepair that needs some attention.

B

D

B

I apologize I didn't bring that information with me today.

H

And I'm working from memory, so it may not be entirely correct, but gary.

B

H

B

A

Right that does sound. I thought we were saying that it was like 14 years of replacement ahead of us for the the.

H

Monitors yeah, you know one.

A

Two three fours that were all monitor conditions. So it's some sort of had you know some sort of issue with it.

H

Okay, so the number's roughly correct, we've got about 14 000 feet that.

A

I could bear we could pull up um like the last meeting of agenda. I think it was did we have that or I.

H

Don't think we need that okay.

A

We just sound right.

D

Directionally, correct yeah, okay, okay, okay,.

B

So next on our agenda is the presentation of the budget and oh, miss kristen you're.

B

I

I

Good afternoon chris and simeone finance director and nice to see you all again, it's been a while.

I

Today, we're going to go over the fiscal year 2022 budget and get your advice on how you would like to move forward on certain items regarding the budget and the assessments.

I

As you recall, the last update we had was the long-range financial plan, which was um about the february march timeframe when we brought it to you all. It had been presented to council um prior to coming to you.

I

So just as a reminder. Our fiscal year, 2021 operating assessment, was 460 dollars. We were able to drop off the dredging assessment a year early because of the change in the funding that came from the um fema and state for hurricane irma, so we were able to. um Since we got a little extra money, we were able to just put that towards the assessment and reduce the assessment early so for fiscal year, 2022 we're going to offer you four options.

I

The first option is 460 dollar assessment: um that's a status quo, meaning we're not going to increase the program at this time. Option b is adding the hundred dollars. So when the seawall assessment study was brought to the advisory board, they had recommended a hundred dollar increase in the assessment rate which had been brought to council. So during that discussion with council council also asked for some additional options of phasing it in um starting at a lower rate and phasing it in.

I

So that's why we have more than two options right now, so we have and I'm so sorry I had switched a couple things around and so d should really be c and c should be d, but um the third option is starting at the hundred dollars in 2022, adding that assessment rate for the seawall program and then increasing it slightly every year, and this one was added because when we brought it to pgi, they said hey, we were just starting there. We know there's a problem and we wanted to like slowly increase it.

I

So we did add that to yours as well in case you um want to do that at this time as well, and then the last option is um the one that council had asked us to present was starting at a little bit lower amount.

I

So we started with a 50 assessment increase per year and then increased it, an additional 50 dollars per year in the pro forma. So as we go along, you go 50, 100, 150 and we'll see how that all plays out in the the performas that are at the end of the powerpoint.

I

Looking at these options, you can see how much it adds to the program. So your base program right now is about 906 linear feet of seawall replacement per year, so option b would get you about adding 320.

I

option d is 320 and then adding another 80 linear fee each year thereafter, and the final option was splitting that in half so you'd be adding 160 per year and then each year adding an additional 160 linear feet.

I

um So again, the other issue that is facing this board is that there are some proposed projects and, in the last fiscal year, budget development. Those projects were not approved to move forward. So these are these projects are still pending any approval to move forward with the projects.

I

So, if you do decide to move forward with one or more of the projects, we would have to talk about the assessment rate that would possibly be needed to do those projects.

I

Again, here's a history just starting in 2007 of what your assessment rates have been over the years and again that dropped off. um We didn't need it for 2021, and that was specifically for the dredging project.

I

So we'll start with our base the status quo, so that just shows an operating assessment of 460 dollars.

I

It doesn't show any additional rate increases in the out years and again the special projects are below the line, so you can see how it does affect the fund balance, but it's it's below what is approved already so below operations and you'll see that on the pro forma, as we move forward again, we did talk about the federal and state assistance um going up to the 95 percent. However, in the pro forma we still have our riprap mitigation program um going and again it may still be delayed another year.

I

um We're still waiting on that permit to move forward with that.

I

Operating requests are um pretty standard across the um city, so four percent merit increases and even though this you all don't have personnel technically in your division, you do get a share from what's in pgi, so there's um for the maintenance and then also for you know the um they they code their time when they go out and do work in bsi, so that the time can be charged to your division.

I

When they're working in your division, um the pension increase is going to go from seven and a half percent match to a ten percent match. um Health insurance is estimated at seven percent, um we're still waiting for our rates, so we'll see if that comes in lower we're hoping ten percent workers comp insurance estimate.

I

Our liability is estimated at a six percent increase. Right now and again we talked about the 906 linear feet of seawall.

I

Currently we have these the administration estimated at a three percent increase that is determined at the end as when all funds are um have their budgets in place, then we allocate the administration, and so it may be less like if other funds have higher increases.

I

Sometimes it does change the percentage that is for your, that is allocated to your division.

I

Fiscal year 23 to 26 mangrove trimming will stay the same at 26, 000 inlet dredging is at 30 000 per year and all other increases are pretty much standard. Three percent estimated increase in sea wells as well as operating six percent health insurance, ten percent workers, comp five percent liability insurance and three percent all other operating.

I

So again, for fiscal year 2021 we do have the riprap mitigation project already budgeted.

I

However, we have not spent those funds yet so if, if the permitting continues to be delayed that will move out a year and then the repayment that we talked about on the revenue side would also move out a year, because again we have to submit that for reimbursement.

I

Fiscal year 22 to 26 are the special projects we're going to talk about those in on the next slide, and then staff has requested a hundred thousand for fiscal year 2022 for the channel corner, widening project so we'll again, that'll be on the next slide.

I

Okay, so here are the three special projects and in the agenda item you have some detail sheets on that. So, if you have any questions, staff is here to answer about any of these projects.

I

um They've requested land acquisition for staging, and that starts in fiscal year 23, with a estimate of a hundred thousand per year, the inlet winding project, which is for barge access the prior year, 80 000, was approved. That was for some of the permitting.

I

um However, the rest of the project has not been approved, so none of the construction or anything has been approved at this time and then the channel corner widening project. And again you see what the totals are for each year and staff is requesting the hundred thousand be allocated in fiscal year. 2022 to start that project.

I

I did add a little extra footnote that wasn't in your packet. It was, it was at the end of the powerpoint, but I put it on the slide just so you could see it was that if you're looking at these projects, you um and you wanted to see understand like what the assessment might be for any of these projects.

I

A hundred dollar assessment equals about a hundred and three thousand in revenue, so in any year we can kind of like look at that and say well. What would your assessment need to be for that project? In those years now, we do have some reserves which we're going to go over next. That could help fund some of this project or one of these projects.

I

It depends on how you want to allocate it and we'll go over that so part of your 460 dollar assessment rate is going towards funding the reserves for either to be used either specifically for seawall increases or these special projects, because the board had recognized that there were staging areas were becoming scarce and what they were going to do about that.

I

So they were starting to set money aside for that, and so that's 45 000 annually has been going specifically to that reserve so that money that has been accumulating can be used either for your projects or, if you decide these projects, aren't what you want towards the seawall program.

I

So here is the base. So this is leaving everything at 460 dollars in all the years and towards the bottom. Here is where let me see just a little.

J

Oops, sorry, let me go back. I was trying to see if the pointer would show in there.

I

It's not there. Let me see if this pointer works.

I

Okay here so over here is where you can see the funds accumulating that 45 000 per year, so by the end of fiscal year 2026 you would have about 450 000 accumulated from that 45 000 per year, and you can see where your regular reserves are below that so 447 by the end of fiscal year, 2026.

I

then in the bottom. Here again, this is where I was just trying to show you that, if you put in all of those projects, what would that do to your reserves, so that would use up the 450 but then also you're at a negative by the time you get out here. If, if you don't add any additional assessments for those projects,.

I

So for the seawall program, if you were to add a hundred dollars, as you had originally recommended to the um city council back in january, um this is what your pro forma would look like.

I

You can see how it added to the assessments. I put everything in a specific color, so you could just focus on those lines, because those are the only lines that are really changing. It's your c wall program going up and your assessment is going up and then you can see what how that affects the um the reserves and again there's a little bit of fluctuation just because of the increases that are scheduled each year and.

J

Any questions so far.

H

So I I have one well, I believe we have to maintain some form of contingency reserve and that's typically down as a percentage of either expenditures or revenues. Yes, what is it for the town and what should be for us.

I

So the um the standard nationwide is at least 16.7 percent or two months operating.

I

However, you all are a very small um district and there's some special considerations that we've been that have been in place with this fund, and that is um the storms that come so if you were only to do 16.7 percent, it might be a little bit too low because you really wouldn't have that back up for a storm.

I

So generally, it's been a little bit higher for your fund overall.

H

So what are you recommending? Is it 20 25.

I

Yeah um we've been recommending in that range and again each year we look at it, so you can decide, but um right now you have extra because you have that extra 45 000 per year. So when we when we're looking at the 20 or 25 percent, we're only looking at the bottom line area, but typically you see what your program is and it's about a thousand. You know a little less than a thousand linear feet.

I

So if you have a storm and it takes out a lot of feet, that's why you want to have a little bit extra to cover to cover there.

J

Any other question.

K

Yes, I have a question kristen me and milne. um Your additional operating rate that you're going to show on the next couple slides is that, in addition to the regular seawall assessment.

J

K

Okay, it's not like the dredging assessment that was separate.

I

So, for the purposes here, I did include it as a separate like you can see it. um Oops use this one up here, just so you could see, but really it would just become part of your normal rate, um but I wanted you to see what the different alternatives that we were offering for this.

K

Okay, so if this is the alternative that we selected, our new seawall assessment would be 560 correct a year: okay, okay,.

I

So the third alternative was, if you wanted to start at 100, but then slowly build that up again trying to get more feet into the program.

I

So this one is starting at 100 and adding 25 dollars per year to the assessment and adding 80 additional feet per year.

I

And the last alternatives was, if you wanted to start a little bit lower starting at 50, but then increasing it, an additional 50 each year, so you'll get to you'll start off a little bit lower, but then you'll kind of get catch up back up to where the one before it also was showing.

I

So you would see that you have fifty dollars um starting and then by the fiscal year, 2026 you'd be at um an extra 250.

I

Any questions so far, do you want to have a discussion about this, or do you want me to continue on to the special projects and then come back to this.

E

Anybody have any comments.

G

Did this get kicked back to us or something because the city council wanted price or something like that.

E

I think they were asking they were asking for options, because we had already suggested a hundred dollars. I thought I've heard right.

G

Obviously, the dollar.

F

G

E

Right, I know sean has been kind of well. It's been very concerned about all of these numbers, but I I guess the city council had kicked it back to us to make sure we were looking at possible other alternatives.

K

So, do you want to discuss it now.

E

Yes, okay, okay,.

K

My concern is those folks in burnt store isles that have more than one sea wall. So, if we're going to increase, let's say we select alternative d in 2026, we're going to be paying 710 a year in seawall assessment and people with two sea walls are going to be paying 1420 dollars a year.

K

I think you're going to get some pushback just saying uh I don't particularly care for any of these uh alternatives other than alternative b, where we keep the hundred dollars across the board.

E

Yeah, I know you're new here, you haven't seen some of the the discussions that have gone on the past year, but there is a recognition that the sea wall now are uh kathy hey. They were put in the early 80s for the most part and uh they have an engineered life of what was it.

E

B

Years, fifteen, fifty years three years so.

E

As we approach that you you have alternatives, one is to to start building a reserve fund now to offset uh the can. You know the um increased deterioration 10 years, 15 20 years down the road. We don't know exactly, but it's it it pretty well will happen so or you can be assessed five, ten, twenty thousand dollars at that point in time.

E

So I think, from our perspective it was being proactive and saying, let's start a reserve now, and it was suggested, a hundred dollars. You know a year as a good starting point. That'll get us many years down the road before we have to to do something else and nobody likes increasing.

E

You know the cost of what we have, but the reality is that uh the sea walls are going to cost us something.

K

Well, I understand that and I read mike mcintosh's paper that he put together on it and I understand that we need to increase the seawall assessment. I think 100 across the board is going to be more.

L

K

Our folks than seven hundred and ten dollars in 2026., so okay.

F

L

K

What I would like to see happen if we're going to go ahead and increase the seawall.

E

Which is option a.

K

E

That's option b.

K

B, option a is, do nothing.

E

Oh okay, yeah you're, right option b, yeah.

G

So rick um other than the two major significant events, the hurricanes.

G

I can't remember that required. I read that whole taylor that engineering report- yes, I don't recall where it's showing that historically, this is what we're going to look at each year of replacing and how is that? Is that trend flat going up? You know what is it doing and is this a realistic number.

D

G

You know, but there has to I like data, you know real data.

E

G

Not blue skies right.

E

Because blue sky.

G

That's somebody's, it's an opinion based upon.

E

And that's exactly was my concern when that report was presented to me- and I I said the same thing- I mean that's their best- guess that's the the engineer's best guess as to how long these walls are going to last.

E

I, you know and they've been somewhat conservative in those numbers, and so you can say okay, you know from my perspective, I think the walls will last longer than 50 years. It might be 60 years 70 years 90 years, but at some point there is going to be a failure and there could be a hurricane come along. That will impact those numbers too.

E

So uh I know in the past year in you know, gary and kathy will talk about this if we need to, but you know how do the failures occur? You know what's happening and how long can you expect that and there's things we can do I suggested you know you could probably put a coating on some of the exposed concrete to give it another to five or ten years worth of life and that sort of thing, and I don't think that you should be replacing walls just because they've met their their life expectancy.

E

So I've said let's leave them in until they are to state of failure that they do need to replace. Then you do it at that point, but whether it happens at 50 years or whether it happens at 70 years. I don't know that anybody other than continually watching these walls and we do that on what is a semi-annual basis. The.

I

New program is semi-annual.

E

So they can get better.

I

Data because before they just kind of saw the tops and they're trying to get some.

F

I

Below the line below the water line, I.

E

Was going to say, gary's got some good good data on that. So I mean it to me. It's an ongoing effort, but you just can't say you know, I don't believe in replacing these walls at 50 years. I do not support that at all. I support replacing them as needed whenever they become in a some state of failure and whether that's can be described as fifty percent or seventy percent or ninety percent or whatever the case is so you know we have to be prudent.

E

I think that's very important, but gary you want to add something.

A

Yeah one quick thing: I guess we got a unique situation where we've got pgi started in 1965..

A

Bsi's walls were finished out in 58..

A

So far to date, we've replaced almost 50 percent of the walls in punta gorda isles, so they had a 15-year head start on us, but we're at what was that percentage on our replacement, 18, 18, yeah, we're like 18 and yet in pgi, which same developer, built yet were a little different situation based on where we, you know where the canals are.

A

They say the ground's a little harder in bsi things of that nature, but that unique snapshot is the fact that we've got history, that we've had to replace 50 of the walls in pgi with the 15 year head start and now we're at 18. So are we going to see those failures start to escalate?

A

um You know that's a crystal ball. We don't have, but we're doing our best on gathering that data and trying to forecast those numbers.

G

Because the failures due to the construction of the wall, or is it when I say that the materials used you know, that's where you're showing it.

F

G

Is it you've had it blow out.

A

And that's where it comes into where your water line cracks the rebar degrades and once the rebar starts corroding, because originally they just used raw bar, so it wasn't coated or anything like that. That bar starts expanding cracks. The walls faster, saltwater intrusion, faster degradation of the seawall and then then you'll end up with uh bottom kick outs. You know the top failures things of that nature.

G

Compared to the pgi canals and the two hurricanes, their water exit, others, mind body, there's so many canals. We've got like two choke points.

G

So what would be the percentage of the sea walls in pgi that were replaced because of hurricanes that make up that 50 versus what percentage and feet in bsi? You know how does that? How do those two correlate and match up yeah.

A

I can pull that data.

G

I don't have that on the top I'd be interested just because that's kind of a yardstick, that's out you're, measuring apples to apples. Of course you know- and we know we have the choke point, so we don't get the water just evacuating out like it does over there and there's no resistance over there. So it's going to blow out hydraulics. We can't win that game.

G

Yeah I'd be interested to see that good one.

A

Sounds good I'll, write myself in it I'll get that number next next meeting I'll.

E

I'll offer my thoughts on that dave. It's it's not so much the volume of water, that's against the wall. It's the velocity, the water exiting the wall too, so.

G

We've lost that opposing force, yeah, that's keeping that thing straight. Yeah.

A

It all comes down to duration of storm too, because irma was the first one we had with a negative tide like it. It was the other storms were complete saturation and once you're like where your dead men are and things of that nature once that whole soil profile gets hydrated, you know there's that this the resistance isn't there, and so you may have had more top failures and some storms, whereas at irma we had the bottoms I'll just be honest,.

A

And then one other thing to mention the budget that we're approving this time is just next fiscal year's budget. So, looking out to the 2026, every year we come back, kristin comes back. Those numbers are going to be revisited each and every year. So at this point the critical one is obviously the fiscal year 2022 budget. So keep that in mind when you're making your decisions, there's there's an opportunity to modify this each and every year that it comes back. Yeah.

I

So, regardless of which one you choose we'll be back again next year talking about either you know, it just gives us a starting point of planning. But again we look at everything, so some things that you have to consider, as well as the cost of materials continually rising and this year, um just to be aware that there's been a higher than normal increase in construction materials, and I I don't know when it'll go back down so or if it'll go back down. You know again, you know we.

I

We think there might be a bubble, but is there a bubble? We don't know so that would cause you or cause the district not be able to do as much as they might want to do in future years. If those prices don't come back, because we estimate, you know an inflationary factor, but this year was just um a lot higher than normal in the cost of construction materials.

I

So I just kind of want to throw that out there when we're talking about sometimes adding that extra little bit throughout the years to help cover those types of costs that go up.

I

So, regardless of which one you decide to like, say hey, this is the one we recommend to counsel. As gary mentioned, we will come back next year and have some similar discussions as well. Okay,.

E

Any any further discussions are you: are you far as you want to go in this, sir?.

I

So then, so um we can wait. I just want to go over the special projects last, so I don't know if you wanted to give me a decision on on just the the seawall program assessment rate and then go over special projects. Or would you like me to finish up the special projects and then make a recommendation for both.

H

I I believe they go hand in hand we're talking about taking money out of the same pocket yep, it's just a function of. How do you want to segregate which pocket do you take it out.

I

So let me um finish that piece up and then we'll make the final okay.

I

So again, as I mentioned, um reserves by the end of fiscal year, 2026 will be at about a 450 000 and these reserves could go to one or multiple projects that you decide if you want to move forward on any of these projects, so the additional assessment would be required more in the out year because we could start using those reserves for those any one or three of those projects that are there, and this is where I put the hundred dollar assessment would generate approximately 103 revenue and again it's more for planning, because you could always start a project and decide.

I

Oh, we don't want to move forward or you you know, so I'm going to go back to the projects page so that we can kind of look at that and staff is here to answer any questions on these projects to determine.

I

If you want to move forward with any of these projects- and I guess the biggest critical one is the fiscal year, 2022 is the channel corner widening, because a staff is requesting to move forward on that.

B

So if you'd like, I can give you a little bit of a narrative for each of the projects. Yes to help the new members, one of our oldest project, is the bsi um lock winding.

B

As you guys know, we recently got our permit for that and what the board decided to do was you guys were going to wait and see what we had to do when we got our permits and decide whether or not you wanted to start with construction, so you can see in past years we had some expenditures, eighty thousand dollars and that's what that was spent for that was for the design and permitting of that project, and then we had estimated 125 000 um each year to fund the construction of that project.

B

uh Mr disher, well, when does that permit expire? We just got it last week or so yeah.

A

B

A

Permit expires march 20th of 2025.. We can always request an extension. We were. We received the initial profit permit from army corps which the city manager signed, and it has been submitted back to army corps, so we haven't received our final permit yet, but we expect it to be. You know granted. Finally,.

G

Okay, that means we can break.

A

Around that means we could break around. That's the last permit on the project was waiting for the army corps, which also included national fisheries service and all the others. So that's the last one to let us go to construction.

B

The second project we have is the bsi channel corner. Widening we've been talking about this for a couple of years. We have four there on the map. We have four corners that we wanted to widen, just to increase two boats passing, and we had some rock out there that really narrowed the channel and stuff like that.

B

So, and that was the project that kristen spoke about where we had a hundred thousand um budgeted for this year, and that is just to start the process get the design and the permitting started. Okay, we also and.

H

So, okay kathy weren't there, five at one point corners. There was one down in de luca, I'm only seeing four in this and I'm wondering if that just.

B

Dropped off, I can look into that, but I thought they were four, but let me look at that. You said it was deluca. I don't think we list the corners in here. Let me look into that. Yeah deluca's up north.

H

No, I think to luke is: oh I'm sorry, it's not delirious.

A

H

The one at the end, yeah.

F

A

And I know the snapshot here for the cip report that one, I believe was still on the list.

A

um We were going to look at all the corners, but those were the the major ones that we've had the big issue, obviously other than the two boats passing is getting the barge to move through the subdivision during any tide level, and at this point they've, you know they've waited for the optimal tides to get those barges to move around those corners, and this would allow them to move through the system, especially once the vacant lots are gone and that's what these projects are really gearing us up for. Is the last vacant lots going?

A

We got to find a place to move this stuff too.

H

Okay, so we think there's five, I guess one of the discussions I think we need to have within this or on this topic is.

H

There's an obvious problem on candia and I think every one of us would say: yep, that's an issue.

H

We can't get around there's a bundle of homes beyond that, but if you go all the way up to deluca's on the north right, so deluca, that's the next corner. That's there are we servicing enough homes within that to justify the additional expense? And you know we haven't broken this down to say how much it would be to do one corner versus five corners.

H

But you know if I look and count the number of homes that go beyond that, I think there's roughly 60 houses or something um that would be covered by the expense of opening up those three corners. It keeps the expense worth it.

A

That all ties back to the one chunk of dirt we talked about potentially taking down for uh the land acquisition staging project happens to be that commercial parcel across from the subdivision at um the north end of terran court, so those corners. If that happens, you know that was what we had discussed as part of the board.

A

That would be the one piece that would be the most palatable to potentially take down and turn it into that staging area, so that would necessitate getting those four corners opened up to get that barge up to that staging site.

H

Okay, my question remains the same. Is it worth it? Does the cost justify this? We have a staging site today on candia, it's not an ideal staging site right.

F

H

It is a staging site that it's owned by the community.

H

Let's talk about the four hundred thousand dollars at this point in time to buy that additional lot you know, are we sure.

D

H

Because when I go through this and kristen you mentioned that number, I did a very back of the envelope calculation here and god knows how correct it is, but it came out to if we look at all these various projects and say we want to do that.

H

The um our fee is going to go from 460 a year and, let's say we add 100 um and we just keep it at 100. with all these other projects. Added into that we're going to be at 902 000 as an assessment to do these various projects.

F

H

And that's not even addressing an aggressive, let's go after the 14 000 feet of I don't call. It failed uh compromised sea wall. That's within the system today.

B

Let's not forget, we do have some reserves, you guys have been building upper reserves to address these projects.

F

B

Help fund these projects.

H

Yeah, so what I hear is that we have to keep it about a 25 reserve, that's about 150 000 um in our pocket. In case we do have a storm, so we can't just go, spend that reserve. We have to hold some of that in abeyance um to address these issues, so I for sure.

B

M

B

If you guys want to move these projects out in future years, if you just want to keep them budgeted on paper, you know, and and we can move that money out in future years every year, we're going to come back and talk about these projects.

A

And these all came out of all of our discussions of the whole seawall program. How should it evolve once we run out of those staging lots and during the development of the taylor engineering study, so those all all those items were addressed. As you know, potentials like opening up the uh the inlet widening getting that south side gone so fully loaded and assembled barge could move through there. Maybe there's a staging lot on the outside down alligator creek.

A

Do we share a staging site with pgi? Yes, it's a lot longer barge bush, but those options are going to be opened up, potentially with the uh with that one project being completed.

G

Health tying into pgi is beneficial to us, because.

A

Is tying into pgi well,.

G

Wherever their staging is because, unless I'm wrong time is money, time is money, and in this thing, you're talking about what two miles an hour moves.

A

I mean you figure, it's a.

G

Big speed, so you're gonna have to go from bsi to some place. That was really convenient for fiji.

A

And not so much.

G

For you guys, yeah, that's a long time. Do you think this assessment's bad wait till we start paying for that.

A

Number yeah: we looked at all those numbers on barge travel time and things of that nature during like. I was saying that development of that study as to what are our best options out there, we looked at everything from uh what was it dirigibles, just an amazing amount of items that were brought to the board or just as to look at items, and this is what was kind of parsed out of all those discussions as the best options.

H

And at this point, we're still only talking about replacing a thousand feet a year right, so the staging requirements for replacing a thousand feet a year are vastly different from doing 20 or 25 000. completely.

F

H

Know the lot that we own on candia that we own on candia, I think, is suitable for replacing a thousand feet a year, especially if we can get a 35-foot barge in for the majority, let's say: 90-something percent of the uh sea walls that are within our system and then we have an issue of. Do we go up north and you know even down south at trieste. I think you said kathy, I'm not even sure we could get a fully loaded barge down that canal. To be honest with you.

A

um We even hung up the dredge barge when we were doing the dredging project. They were trying to go around a lift down there. They got hung up.

H

A

That canal is so narrow.

H

It's very narrow, very nice, and um you know, there's a pretty good um ledge on one of the sides there that about halfway down.

A

That outer edge yeah.

H

Yeah so good thing.

A

Is we've got a lot of the wall replaced in that back basin? It's a smaller basin, so we can look at what's been replaced in that area in total, and um you know, like you said, what's the the cost in household how many are left in there?

A

Do we move in and button up those last few gaps to seal that off before we have you know before it gets completely sealed off um not in regards to depth but ease of construction, and then you start that clock at when the first epoxy coated walls were replaced or when the first epoxy coated was put in the technology in 50 years from now may be drastically different for replacing these things.

H

G

Go ahead getting back to this point, do we already have a warm fuzzy that will get permissed to even do this and to be ripping out hard bottom with this little sawfish, that's swimming around.

A

I wouldn't say.

G

A warm and fuzzy on that, and so I'm looking at that is there a way to even float a balloon to see what you know. What's the weather saying, if, if we want to cut into bedrock basically limestone, what's the core of engineers and everybody else going to say, they're going to say you had your chance, I don't know.

A

G

There's also property acquisitions.

A

Required for that, because it's not you know it's outside of our uh burnt store aisles, platted canal limits, so we'd have to get property acquisitions and little pine island mitigation bank credits. I just verified that a couple weeks ago, they're up to 300 000 of credit right now, but they just skyrocketed.

A

So even mangrove mitigation um is just gone up like plywood. Has you know it's just nuts.

G

Well, is this number, is it realistic to do that? Why anything or a week we could be a magnitude off or something.

H

You know, I think, when we first started looking at this back in was it 17.

A

Okay, 2017 2018.

H

2017., it's been.

A

Several years and the development of the whole process.

H

You know, I think the thought was a good one, because the experience that we had after hurricane irma, where we really didn't, have anybody who wanted to bid on doing the work there. They couldn't get a large enough barge in the majority of the canal and that, in combination with the safety issue, with a lot, I think led us to the discussion of opening that up.

F

H

I still think is a good idea. I think that's something that at least I support the ability to get a larger lot in and to be able to address a good majority of the homes within the system there with a fully functional, fully wide barge.

H

I I think, as these costs have escalated, you know when we first started talking about this. We were talking about three hundred thousand dollars and now we're at 725 uh for the corner widening, and I suspect that, given how these things have escalated over the past couple years, that's not the the final number that we'll see at that.

F

H

But I would be more in favor of addressing our issues slowly, but surely, let's take care of a majority of the issues within the system by way of opening up that lock.

H

Let's look hard at the 14 000 linear feet of of a compromised wall that we have, because if that goes, we know it's going to take something with it. That probably is able to withstand these things when they fall. They seem to it's a domino uh they take things down and then, let's continue to address these issues about what do we do with land acquisition which we had previously brought to the board in 17 as well, and the board had recommended not to go forward with that.

A

um Yeah for residential lots for.

H

Residential residential, that's correct, but that's.

A

How we look for anything adjacent commercially, and that was the one piece that was close enough to be able to get to and now one thing when you're bringing in sectional barges. You could float those in push them in by tug but to be able to get the crane brought in and then erected I've seen them. That takes a couple lots.

A

So if we're stuck with a pie, shaped candy a lot, I don't know how easily they can go in and offload an erect a crane crawler crane to be able to then get out onto a sectional barge.

H

However, if we have the lock open, then.

A

We don't have to worry about that, because we can have the crane on the barge and then push it in assembled. So that opens up a you know being able to move that machinery in from pgi much easier without having to break it down and truck everything in.

B

G

So in that lighting everything was taken into account. Did you make a right or left turn.

A

It's a full 42 foot wide can come in yeah. We talked with the contractor on what size barge they used and right now our navigational channels are only 40 feet wide now along the perimeter channel and they're for the most part able to get around everything. That's in the way.

A

You know, there's a couple: four post lifts that are sticking out there: they can still make it around there. So a 42 foot wide um with the length of the barge and the push boat they they can get on in and around the corners or through the lock and make the turns to either head north or south.

B

So what we would like to do this afternoon is to get a consensus from the board on whether or not they want to move forward with each of these projects, as defined in your cip project. Okay and again, if we want to resurrect them next year in the following years, we can always do that.

B

Okay, so if you want to start with the first one, the bsi inlet widening, if I could get a consensus on moving forward with how it's presented in the cip.

H

How do we want to do this? Do we want to do a vote.

E

Or, do you want to do a vote or you want a motion.

I

C

I

Need a motion christian, I don't think we need a motion, but I guess we would get.

N

I

N

B

You would might.

I

Want to recommend to council, so I think that's that's.

E

If that's the case, then I can say a show of hands is who supports? Yes, the inlet, widening, correct, okay, show hands support the inlet, widening all right, everybody in agreement with that. So we all support that. Okay, the second one is the um I've lost. My piece of paper.

B

Channel corner widening all right: the corner, widening.

E

Now can can I offer uh listening to sean a little bit. Can I offer a rather than maybe going at it all at one time? Do we have to do all four or five at one time, or could we do one a year or would that increase cost.

B

It would increase cost, I mean, if you think about it, I mean we could go ahead with the design and the permitting yeah. You know, and maybe even the acquisition land acquisition at one time. That would definitely be a cost savings and then construct them, maybe one or two at a time.

B

We could do something like that.

E

Does that sound a little bit better sean no doesn't.

H

No, I just you know again, I I think if we were to sit down rationally and do this put your business hat on and say where's the cost benefit analysis for spending this amount of money to basically deal with 60 homes. I I think there isn't anybody in this room that could justify that.

H

I think what you'd have to do is say: yep, it's going to cost me more to get a 20-foot barge through here, there's going to be more labor involved, there's going to be additional costs from what we have today, but that's far more economical than going and widening all these corners that um that serve a smaller portion of the community, and I don't think, that's discriminatory. I just think that's based off of financial considerations right.

E

A

um We could always um schedule a pre-application conference with fdep and army corps and get their pulse on the problem. You know another one. I believe we've had one on this project already, but have a uh another more form I'll have another formal one with them and sit down and here's what we're looking to do.

A

What's the current pulse of the permitting world, not that it's in time for the budget talks, but I mean, if you guys, decide to push it off a year and then we can come back with some more data on that from the agencies.

G

That sounds like a good idea. You've already approached the core once on this.

A

On all the projects- yes, it's been a few years, though so, and the permitting world changes not as fast as our um our prices have been. But uh you know it depends on who you, who you get.

K

A

K

I like that idea: let's do some more research, so look at it later.

E

Okay and let's ask this in in favor of the channel corner, widening going ahead with that, those not and asking for further review.

H

I I'd be open for further review.

E

H

Let's, let's approach this as we would have 15 years ago: okay,.

B

So let me just clarify: we have budgeted um 200, I'm sorry, a hundred thousand dollars for next fiscal year to fund this project. We can change that and put that funding out for another.

I

Year so we had not budgeted. We were asking for them to approve that in the budget.

J

I

um In the base budget, we did not include that hundred thousand. It was dependent upon whether you were wanted it in there and then we would have added it. So currently, it is not.

E

I

E

So I guess we're we're in favor here of saying: let's continue to review the the corner whitening for the next year.

I

So what we'll do is we'll move this project out a year and bring it back to you again next year or at some other time. If they get additional information before then,.

E

Right sounds good and then the third item out there is uh land acquisition for staging and whether or not we want a budget for that. Any further conversation on that guys. Where did that number 400 000 come from.

B

Mr disher did some research on some vacant: lots that were adjacent to the perimeter canal that would be accessible by barge and he was just I'll. Let him.

D

Talk about waterfront lots in bsi.

A

That commercial tract of land was on the market and there was a percentage of it, the whole commercial tract and it included that little nuisance strip and the the other area, that's all full of pepper, bushes and whatnot now, so that was part of an overall larger tract of land. So it was a percentage based on what their ask was on the total parcel for what was left um on that point. So it was a disconnected from the other parcels, but it's it's just part of uh just.

H

D

H

Of land- okay, that's where they did all that clearing.

A

So that was how that price was developed. You know, based on that probably twice that now.

K

But if candia is going to work for us to stage out of candio, why do we need to buy any more land.

A

Right of course, three years ago we didn't know what the the options were, so we had to bring forth all the options to, let you all make the best decisions possible. Put the data in front of you.

K

So if they can widen the lock to 42 feet and candia will work for us and we don't.

F

N

K

The the corner.

G

K

Then we wouldn't need to buy any other property to stage correct, so it sounds to me like we can push that off too.

G

How big is the barge? What they're talking about.

A

What was it it was 24. Why.

B

Is what I want to say: yeah 24.

A

By 60 yeah with a 20-foot push boat or so 24 foot push boat, possibly.

A

And they bring in the small crane for us, 60 plus 44 60 plus the 24 foot push. But if I recall correctly, it's been a.

G

A

I've looked at those numbers, but there.

G

B

When we originally started having these conversations, we did present that.

A

That's why the candy a lot was. It was there, but we're shutting down the inlet when we, when we load and unload it, yeah.

G

Would you have to take the dock out to get more clearance? Another fee.

A

I would think so just be able to get that thing pushed up and we would have to find a basin adjacent to store. It would only be there short term load and unload because a boat now it's hard to you, know with a good, strong incoming, come in and make that corner without hitting the docks now so yeah. That would just that would be the I guess. What would you call it?

A

You know some of the the issues in regards to staging yeah they spud down, so they can move it off to a basin and spud down where there's a wider area for boats to pass around and we're only in burnt store several months out of the year we go in and we get the program done and we get out. It's not like we're there in pgi, like non-stop.

B

We're typically there what three four months.

H

B

H

Really that long, we did four lots this year.

B

Yeah four or five projects.

A

Projects which include multiple lots.

B

Right some projects will encompass three lots which take a little bit longer because they have to pour the cap in sections, and you can't touch that cap for a week to start the next section.

H

Okay, and do we pour the cap from the barge.

A

From the stream that's pumped from the street, it's just the removal in the set of the wall and the backfill, and then obviously we go stage that backfill somewhere and we've talked about this. Before you know, do we have barges that have just a big pile of dirt on there's the backfill barge? That's where we store the dirt? If we can't store it on candy, you know all those options were talked about, can't store it on kid. Dude.

F

A

Store it on candida, but then you've also got all your sea walls and marshalling people and materials on and off and candy is not a big lot per se. Most people aren't right and that was why the original buying lots around the subdivision was dropped. Nobody wanted a permanent staging site in their side yard.

G

So you're only there three months out of the year.

D

And then you're.

G

Out you don't go back unless there's.

A

Even if one falls down, we typically wait to the next wait until the next see, I'm not sure how cathy's right. No, no.

B

If we have a failed seawall.

G

We're out there okay, so what is when is the season.

B

Well, it all depends on the contractor, it's his schedule. He creates a schedule. Typically, they wait for the summer months, but this year they were in there during the winter months because they brought in a smaller barge.

G

I'm just trying to figure out the impact of people living there with that.

B

Yeah, if it's summertime.

G

Less people yeah.

B

But we're also selling a lot of houses and a lot of people are moving temporarily or permanently, and so I just need a consensus on the land acquisition. Did we already do that.

E

No I'm about right. We were having some.

B

Discussions so.

E

I'm I'm asking for show of hands in favor of the land acquisition any hands I'll raise mine uh opposed.

E

Pre-Opposed one day, I'm opposed to it right now. You're opposed okay, four opposed one four, so, okay.

I

So what we'll do is for presentation.

I

We will move the one project up because you have said: let's move forward with the inlet widening barge access and based on just the one project it um there might be a small increase needed in fiscal year 2026, because we're remember we're going to have that 450 000 that can cover that construction. The 80 000 was already budgeted before and spent for the permitting.

I

So you don't have to come up with the 80. That's already taken care of okay, so um the other two um we'll keep below the line, we'll move the hundred thousand out to 2023 and again, if at some point you say, hey, we don't want to talk about land acquisition anymore. You let us know, but we'll we'll keep it in um below the line, so that, if you do want to talk about it again in a future um fiscal year budget, we can bring it back. Okay, is that good?

I

Okay? Okay, so then our so that takes care of projects. So now we can just talk about the um which um alternative you would.

F

I

To um present for us to present to council we'll present, all of them to council like we're doing for pgi. However, we put a box around the one that they chose to um carry forward because they wanted to make sure they did not want to decrease. But council had specifically asked us to look at a smaller amount in the first year, so we'll still present that but we'll let um let them know whatever choice you were putting forward as a recommendation.

G

So that just they were opposed to the first year of going up 100, they would take so.

I

When did our problem.

G

Go from 50 to 100 and bounce that way.

I

Yeah they had asked us to look at a smaller amount at first they wanted um they actually asked. If, like there would be more um if people you know outreach to find out. If that's what was wanted, um I'm not sure if, if we've heard any different, that anyone was opposed to it or not, but they specifically asked us to look at a smaller increase and like stepping it up over the years tgi in their discussions.

I

They said that was our step because they would have gone a little higher, but they wanted to start they're doing 150. Just so you know, and then they're increasing it every year, so because their step, that was the lowest step that they wanted to do.

E

I think you know our our base recommendation was the 100 a year and you know that's where we'd agreed to. uh I can ask uh again if, if you guys still agree with that or do you want to do something else.

G

Well, if you still get in the long run over three years, I'm just saying if you still get the same dollar.

E

You're still good yeah.

D

E

Mean the sooner you get.

J

E

Though, maybe it's not going to be so much 34 years from now so.

H

So my perspective on this is, you know, you know mulligan every year, the out years. Why not take advantage of it? You know, let's take the hundred thousand dollars, recommend that moving forward yes and we need to have a good conversation with the constituents in the community to say this is why this is being done and- and I still haven't heard, how that's going to happen, but.

H

We're hearing that these are going to fail.

H

Yes, right, yeah would be negligent if we didn't step up and address that, and but we have to do that with the uh fixed income, largely fixed income community, that we have in place in mind. We have to communicate to them. This is going to take place.

H

Let them complain, let them moan, but have them understand what this is doing um for their property value in their community as well.

F

E

G

You're talking 100 a year, though.

E

100 a year right and if you and from my perspective sean, I know you don't necessarily agree, but when you move to bsi, you expect a certain level of lifestyle and 100 a year. In order to maintain that lifestyle, I think, is relatively nominal. Oh.

H

Absolutely and- and I think it's nominal as well- but um you know I I'm not my neighbor across the street who's 85 years old and has you know run through um you know. We have people here been here a bunch of years sure and you know they're on a pretty fixed income. At this point right, um we have to explain to them why this benefits them. We have to figure out a way to do that, because we're going to spend the money it's going to.

K

Happen, oh yeah right! Well, the berkeley's association sends out a weekly.

E

That's kind of what I'm thinking is. I mean.

K

That only hits half the folks, because only 50 of the residents belong to that association of those of the whole of the whole community are going to see that email, but that's one way to get it started.

H

Anyway, so at least you start the conversation.

E

Yeah, I was, as I said, I can see that that would be something I would need to do. I want to start doing is to maybe have an insert into that and talk about these issues. Then it may not hit everybody, but at least it's you know it's it's heading in that right direction.

D

They have to start on the basis that puna gorda is the only city in florida, I believe- and maybe the only city in the country that covers the sea walls right and if we start out by explaining the cost per lineal feet a lineal foot.

D

This is what it's going to cost if 50 feet or 80 feet of your seawall goes down. This is what you're going to have to pay. If you didn't have this kind of protection from the city right and all we're trying to do is build up our reserves and be ready when things collapse, so that we can fix them. But if we start with that, linear foot, yeah.

F

I think we can work on that, which is.

D

Pretty expensive, what is it three four hundred dollars.

F

D

Replaced after irma finally 90 times, 400. it's expensive.

A

Not to mention the fact that that your assessment covers mangrove trimming, the dredging, it's all-inclusive, you got a depression in your backyard. You pick up the phone, you call we're out within a week or two and we're filling that depression. You know all those items.

N

Are covered under that same.

G

Fee, it's not just seawall.

A

Replacement, so it's okay, full service.

G

Right, you know rick it's it's kind of like we're, saying it's an insurance you're.

D

Buying one question.

G

Or you're self-insured and if a hundred dollars a year, hurts you what's 30 dollars or more and that's one way to sure you're saying to present.

E

Okay, yes, I I think we've had enough discussion, so those of us we show some hands then in favor of the continuing our recommendation 100 can I have that all right. I got full support there and.

I

That's the 100 each just yes straight across so.

E

That would be option b.

I

Option b yep correct and I just want to go back to one more question. So sorry I'll get back to the projects.

I

Since you have decided to go ahead with the inlet barge, widening access and not do the channel corner winding staff has asked me. Would you like to move that project, so they could start working on moving forward with construction of that project so right now it was scheduled to start in 2023.

I

Would you want us to start that in 2022.

E

My opinion, if there is one question or one comment that I get from other residents of bsi it's: how soon can we get that when is that coming? That is by far and away the question is asked by more people that I've talked to than any other question.

E

So that's just my comment for what it's worth and I'm all for it.

G

I'm not being familiar.

E

H

The uh so that's where the yeah, that's, where that number came from.

E

We're just talking about the windings.

G

So the widening! How much did that so? Is that what it's showing there, the five.

H

Well, we started at 3 30, we went to 3 45 and now we're at five.

J

Here I'll bring it back, I'm sorry so.

G

Here's my question on that that 580 is there a change in scope from what originally went in it? No.

A

Just project development and the cost have been increasing since we started the permitting process a couple years ago.

A

So as this project is increasing, I think uh sean you were talking about over the years we've talked about this project. It's gone up in price.

H

From 330 to 580., that's what I'm saying yeah.

A

The project in in a nutshell, hasn't changed: we're tearing out the old infrastructure and putting the seawall.

G

Up on the same exact thing now I mean, in other words what you said well.

A

We had estimated you know putting in concrete wall now we're doing a vinyl.

G

A

The same thing difference.

G

In scope between the 330 bit and the 580 bit well,.

A

I wouldn't say not materially I mean not that great of a scope, change, okay, so.

G

I used to in my past evaluated government proposals.

G

I couldn't justify this; in other words, the contractor would have to sit in front of me and show me no change in scope. How did it go up? Two hundred thousand dollars.

G

How do you justify your numbers.

F

From three years ago, to now.

G

Because we sure, as heck haven't, had that much of a price increase and cost living increase. So where are your numbers coming from and how do you justify it.

A

Right you, you.

G

Had staffing you hadn't, you had everything: okay,.

A

We didn't have a full design. We were going off of tearing out the old infrastructure and setting in seawall on.

G

That one side to widen it, it doesn't change. The scope is what you just said.

A

Well, it's the same scope, we're still trying to do the same, we're tearing out the same sea wall but.

D

G

Have far more detail in what's gonna be changing.

A

Yeah, I guess something yeah, because.

G

I want to tear it out, that's that's the concept.

A

We were working.

G

Those pieces weren't in the 330.

A

No, we didn't know what those the total design, of course, because back then we were going off of here's. What we think it could take to tear this out, um we'll need x, number of feet of seawall, okay, we're estimating the labor on pulling out the old wall. um We've got teraflex on the floor now, um which I'm not sure if that was in our original design, because when you start digging in on it, you know. Okay, now we've got the terraflex added in right.

G

You'd be wrong in saying it's a swag, the first one yeah.

A

They always are, I mean we're coming up in napkins you're, actually developing.

G

A

As we move through a project correct.

G

And that's how you've got this number.

A

That's that's similar to our you know uh any one of these, the channel quarter whitening. What do we think it could be and asked me three years ago that one probably went up as well, because hey look mitigation has gone from what was it several years ago? 100 something thousand now it's just 300.

I

um And I will point out again that the pricing from last year to this year is significantly different on materials. So that's another reason you don't know, I'm just.

J

G

Of that's just a big jump and if I was doing an evaluation I couldn't accept, because now you have to justify from what I told you to do to what now you're telling me, because what they've done is they come back basically with a cost plus.

G

You know this is what you want to do, but in doing it you have to have this to be successful.

A

Of course, we didn't even have an engineer on board.

G

F

A

Yeah, that was strictly staff, giving it a a good once over. You know, like I said, napkin sketch no real design. We just hired the engineer and just got it permitted what I'm used to gotcha gotcha yeah.

G

We didn't have an engineer on board, then.

A

For the permits.

I

So um currently, they've got scheduled approximately 500 000 for the project, and if we want to move forward um when they put the project together, they were actually putting 125 000 to accumulate that 500 000. However, if we want to get the you know, construction done more quickly to avoid some, maybe additional costs that might come down waiting for. You know a few years you have at the end of fiscal year 2022. I can go back to the um pro forma oops.

J

I went the wrong way.

I

And we'll go to this one because it's the 100 in there you've got 270 000 available from the 45 000 we've been accumulating through fiscal year 2022, then um the carryover ending is at 737 000. So we could use some of those funds towards that project and kind of like pay. Our standard reserve back from the 45 000 that would have accumulated over the through fiscal year 2026 because, as you see at the end of fiscal year, 26 you're at about 324 000 and again um just this being a small fund in having anything.

I

That's catastrophic, you're, getting kind of close to where you wanna. I mean it's a little more than 25 percent, but you might still want to keep it a little higher if there were some significant failure or hurricane.

H

So, having said that, what I'm hearing you say is that we ought to plan on keeping a a reserve, a capital reserve of somewhere between 150 and 200 thousand dollars. And if we can spend down to that point and then build it back up.

F

H

We don't have to go to the community to ask for um an additional assessment to deal with this lock.

I

Or this one project for this.

H

One project.

I

We couldn't support that for all three projects. We can support it for this project.

H

Let's do that yeah.

E

No, I'm I'm in favor of that too. You know and we can then go back to the community and say where you know work is actually starting on this and again. Inevitably I get questions from almost anybody that I talk to in the neighborhood about. When is that going to happen, so we can say: hey it started yeah. So.

H

That'd be a great thing.

I

So we'll move the 500 in total to fiscal year, 2022 to get that project going and that way you won't see it spread out and then the other two are just going to remain below not right, not in the not in your um plan at the moment: yeah, okay, okay, thank you.

J

I

Else, nope, that's it! I appreciate your help.

I

It's a lot of information, but we want to.

E

You know understand, especially when it comes to money, who's up next candy.

B

um So the next item under reports is the finance report that was hand delivered to you earlier today. I don't know if you had a chance to look at it. If you have any questions or concerns.

H

Nope, you said kathy you're starting mangrove trimming is that mangrove.

B

Trimming will be started this week as a matter of fact. They should have been out there today. Okay,.

B

Okay, we'll move on to the seawall um replacement status report. We've obviously replaced all of our sea walls, so our program is done for.

F

This year,.

I

But I'm going to keep submitting.

B

This to you guys, every every month, just let you know another piece of paper, yeah um budget utilization report- we didn't have any expenses this month, like I said, I'm still waiting to get the mangrove trimming completed um and then we'll get that done, and we are expected to do some sonar readings uh just to sonar the perimeter canal, see if we got any high spots that need to be dredged, so we're going to be doing that at the beginning of july I'll have a crew out there. We do that in-house.

B

Okay and um I do not have a permits authorized by city staff, we had a little bit of a glitch in our computer system, so I don't have that report for you, but I can give it to you next month, for this month, capital improvement, cap improvements.

A

The record gary disher, um you got your capital improvement program. There, we've already discussed the burnt storage inlet widening. We got that army corps. Permit, that's been submitted back to them, signed by the city manager, we're just waiting on that permit to to come back and we'll be ready to turn dirt on that project and then on the uh the other one was our channel quarter widening and I'll? Remove that one from the report, since we've opted not to move forward on that one or put it on hold so we'll uh any questions.

E

On the kepler improvement projects, nobody, okay, moving right ahead,.

A

Master permit agreement, um we have um been working with the consultant and army corps trying to get a call to coordinate our efforts on our permit application. It has not yet been submitted from army corps off to national marine fisheries services, so uh we're still in their pipeline. um Our conference call was canceled two weeks ago and we finally got another one set up with army corps so tomorrow, as long as they don't cancel it before the meeting, we will have our call and hopefully get this project moving on their side.

A

And our dredging permit for our inlets we've got the po issue to hans wilson associates on that and um let's see the other ones are the lashley marina you guys aren't associated with that one and then the dredging for the dockside permit. That po was also issued to hans wilson to get him moving on those permits.

A

H

E

E

Nope all right moving right along um any other issues on any of these reports before we move on to special permits.

E

Okay, we're moving on to uh when I moved to the public hearings uh special permits. Anyone wishing to speak uh needs to be sworn in if they haven't been sworn in. uh If anyone needs to speak, I ask you to go up to the podium up here to state your name and your ad. Let me give you: was it two minutes to speak? Here's three three minutes to speak.

E

So with that we'll get started bob you want to start. Yes,.

O

I will for the record bob nichola public works, engineering division have been sworn.

O

Ccsp092021, this is an application from mr charles otani. Who's seeking approval to install an elevator style boat, lift at a property. It's currently a vacant lot has a street address of 595 macedonia at this particular location, which is located on the perimeter canal. The canal is approximately 46 feet in width.

O

The proposed lift would extend into the water up to 7 feet or, excuse me above the water in the elevated position it would, it would be uh seven feet. Waterward the property, while I said is vacant, has had a dock in place since the 2008 2009 time frame, uh the dock is five feet wide or yeah five feet wide fifteen feet long. uh The proposed location of the elevator style lift would be about 22 feet south of the existing dock.

O

This is before you because per code with a canal, that's 46 feet wide.

O

The navigable channel is is determined as anything more than three feet. Waterward at this location.

O

Under this code, we determine the center line of the waterway, which would be 23 23, feet, waterward and then the 40-foot navigable channel is 20 feet on either side of that center line. Point. So that's why this is before you. Staff has reviewed the uh the six criteria uh located at the back of your packet.

O

uh It should be I'll refer to the code section. It's chapter six section, two dash subsection e subsection 4 the criteria to be met for the granting of a petition for special permit. These would be something you base your decision on of course, however, based on staff's review of of the application and its impact to the navigable channel, we are not recommending favorable approval be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

L

D

If this lift is not approved, is there any other way a lift can be put on this lot.

O

Well, under the current code.

O

It could, but it could only go three feet: waterward so for practical purposes. No.

D

So you bet we're basically telling this landowner that he can't have a lift.

O

Well, that would be your decision that that's ultimately this committee's decision. There are other lifts in the canal between here and mayor's cut. This property is about five properties, south of the mayor's cut, and I did include an aerial in your packet.

O

It's maybe a little hard to see, but the mayor's cut where this four post lift is located right here, that's directly across from the mayor's cut subject parcel the applicant's parcel is, is the one highlighted here so there are other boats, there's other lifts, there's other docks between that point and the mayor's cut. The other thing that I did not add in in my initial report was the the canal width is, is fairly.

O

Uniform between mayor's cut- and this point uh varies anywhere from about 46 feet wide to up to about 50 feet wide.

A

And now, mr ashworth for the record, gary disra have been sworn one. Other item that I just verified with kathy as well, that we could do or that could be done by the homeowner davits- could be installed completely self-supportive on the land side. But that's that is an option. That's that is available, not a a.

D

Level and I have a lift right and.

A

You prefer the ladder a.

D

Lift is whether it's an ella, lift or a regular lift is much preferable.

K

Bobby and melon, um I have a a concern here. I know the goal is to keep 40 feet of navigable canal and this thing is going to go seven feet into 46 feet of navigation water, so we're we're losing out on one foot. Is my math correct, or am I not following.

L

Your math is correct.

K

So if we were to grant this we'd be giving a one foot exception,.

O

Well, under the current code again where the navigable channel begins is the center line of the waterway. So while there would be 39 feet of water between the lift, that would be seven feet: waterward and the mangroves uh by definition, the navigable channel. This would extend out into that navigable channel four feet.

K

Okay, so what it would really do is adjust the center line, four feet to port.

O

There's a there's, a process that that's spelled out in the code that you know absent any type of bathymetric survey or sonar readings or something the center line is assumed to be the middle of the water between the sea sea wall and the mangroves.

K

Okay, I'm just I'm thinking we're for one foot. We could make it a set a exception.

P

Brian clemens of public works engineering. I have been sworn one thing to keep in mind with the elevert we're referring to seven feet. That's sticking out. We believe that to be in the up position and it depends on how the boat is positioned on those bunks. So, as you go down, it's going to angle out it's going to come out more into the channel plus whatever boat overhang you may have so seven feet is the bare minimum in the upright position.

H

And do we have a bathymetric survey for this particular location that we could view? Does the channel wander towards the mangroves or like in several sections? Is it right up against the wall.

O

It's it's pretty well centered between the wall and the mangroves in this, but again that survey data is from 2017.

H

Okay, so it's not a million.

G

H

G

The origin of this 40-foot point.

A

G

Mean it was just doors it used to be.

A

50 feet and then the board years ago um decided to go down to 40 feet because the waterway was didn't support a 50-foot navigable channel, because the water just wasn't.

G

There it's just based upon.

A

Right and you know.

G

Having two boats passed, not something the coast guard's come down and said anything like that. It's.

A

Part of our city ordinance.

G

Okay and how many houses are downstream from this a handful.

E

No hundreds yeah hundreds yeah.

G

They really are, I thought that was like. I didn't think there was any more outlets on no.

E

G

E

All those houses past the mayor's cut have to pass this point in order to get to the.

G

Canals going off.

E

It's on the rim canal, okay, right.

H

Next to the neighbor's county, I don't know that dave, but I'm going to guess half the community is yeah. Okay,.

E

G

I've been down.

E

G

The boat- it's just I didn't think much. I don't think, there's.

E

Any more canals! Oh! That's! It's a lot! It's it's yeah you're talking.

E

That whole area right there.

A

Yeah, so here's the mayor's cut. So it's it's everybody down. Okay,.

H

First, half third.

A

P

Subversion of the community.

K

How would this compare to the uh the corner at uh candia, where there's a elevert there and a rigid inflatable on that eleventh.

D

K

We come around the corner from say, cassandra, okay and I'll. Make that turn headed for the uh the lock? What sort of spacing is there? Is that 40 feet? No.

E

I don't think so. That's that's.

A

The only contention, let me go to a website where I know would.

E

That be approved today. No, it would not be.

K

Okay, well, that should.

E

Have never been, but it's there.

K

Well, it seems to me that the president's been set.

A

No, each each of these has to stand on their own merit. That's what I say you don't.

D

You know I brought this up the last three or four meetings about this perimeter canal business, and I think I mentioned that. I think it behooves the city to contact owners of houses and lots on the perimeter canal and explain the problem that we're now discussing.

D

I don't think it's fair that somebody should come in and buy a house or a lot and then find out later on that, if I'm going to put in a dock or a lift or ello or whatever you want to call it, then I've got to have a special permit, because the canal is not wide enough for me to do anything I mean it's, I think we're doing it incorrectly by not informing these people that they may have a problem, and I think it affects their property values.

D

D

All got a letter from this bob fitz, who makes some interesting points.

D

And he says I'll say again that the bsi perimeter canal should not be treated the same as the pgi rim canal about 98 of the pgi rim canal is over 100 feet wide. The vsi canal is primarily between 40 and 60 feet wide in this case. One size does not fit all and there's no question about that, but I don't think I think we should.

D

Be flexible enough to permit a lift whether when there are others that have already been permitted along that canal as well as I think we should. I still think we should inform the residents and owners of of empty lots that they may have a problem.

G

Or even people that want to put up a new lift and they want to put the four posts lift up too. He can't put a four position. I understand, but there's someone that can.

H

And those some on that canal have really effect impacted the navigation going down right that piece there I mean so somebody who draws four feet of water right here.

H

um I don't go down there anymore, because I can't I can't get back out in anything less than a full time. The channel is all the way over by that four post.

G

O

I've got a a picture on the uh the overhead that that I took um standing on the the dock. That's five feet wide um generally, looking in a northerly direction toward the mayor's cut, so you can visualize what's there today again, our analysis was based on what the code states, because the lift or excuse me because the dock was there before uh 2011.

O

There is a section in our code that um august 17 2011 if there were docking facilities in place. Prior to that date, a lift is not required to be built, but for properties that don't currently have a dock and.

L

Are on the rim.

O

O

If they want to have a boat, they are required to have a lift if there, if the dock um is if they had no docking facility in place before august 17th 2011..

O

So if you know to mr ashworth's question about what people can and are, can and cannot do on the rim canal, as well as what they're required to do by our code. That's that's another thing to consider, because there are vacant properties there that didn't meet that timeline.

E

um Bob, let me ask you this, uh and I didn't see it in here. Maybe I missed it, but what size of lift is that albert that they're, asking for.

O

uh I think I'll defer that to mr atari who's, the agent for for the applicant.

Q

Q

For the record, my name is peter atari and um I represent um the otanis in this matter and as well as um marine contracting group, I'm not an attorney.

Q

I'm sure you know that, but I do represent them as their as their salesman and the person that did the drawing and walking through the the project directing the project. That's a 7 000, pound capacity left about 23 24 feet and under I believe they have a 22 foot uh boat. Now, that's 24 24.

E

Q

That's maxing out that lift looking.

E

At the bob, if you go back to that previous one, where you're showing an alivert yeah.

Q

I'd like to see that as well.

E

You've got the arms that are sticking out way beyond the supports for the uh yeah there. If you notice the arms stick out way beyond where the actual boat supports are at. Is it possible to cut off four feet off of those arms and still put a seven thousand pound boat.

Q

E

Q

E

Gotta you got this.

Q

This is about this, the height of the elevated position that would come just about those are eight foot arms, but they come over the sea wall cap which are non useful, no.

E

On the outside, on.

Q

The outside they're about level with the dock they're, those are those will be at the seven foot mark in the elevated position and that's where you keep the boat. You know that, with the the the lift when you this is by the way, this is only 75 feet away from this installation, and this gentleman is going to need to be taking this lift out and replacing it. Or is he going to be allowed to do that?

Q

Because these arms are shot so now, it's time to replace that because it wasn't properly taken care of with zincs.

E

Well, you can replace in kind without permitting.

Q

Yes, the itanis are not going to be able to possibly put in a lift just 75 feet away. That's why I got involved.

E

Well, what I'm saying is on on the canal side. uh You've got your two bunks. Yes, sir, and there's dead-ended steel sitting out beyond those bunks. Can they cut that steel off, but you could but.

Q

The boat's gonna overhang, the boat's gonna, the boat- would be over.

E

The boat would overhang the steel itself.

Q

Yeah, but you could you could cut that that steel off and not have it there when the boat's, not there, uh not all of it. I I would be comfortable taking off, maybe 16 inches, maybe a foot but uh yeah the boat. You know because this is the center line of the boat.

Q

uh So that's about this is right about where the boat would hang, maybe about eight inches inside the end of that beam. So, yes, you could take a tip of it off. They actually make box beams uh golden. Does that slide over the top of this I-beam?

Q

And then you would uh you would notch it in so you could make them shorter, but only as much as where the boat would fit. You wouldn't want to jeopardize that outer bunk being too close to the end of the I-beam.

R

Q

Well, you would you, would you wouldn't.

R

Q

You you wouldn't want that bunk to to be right at the edge of the I-beam you wanted to set in at least a good foot.

E

I'll disagree with that, but that's that's! For another conversation.

Q

Sure I didn't engineer the lift. Is this going against my three minutes.

O

Peter you actually have as long as you need, I believe it's up to a half an hour. First staff report, as.

L

O

uh Your reports.

O

There's a couple of boat lifts.

G

On that come out full post, you just did the distance from that.

G

Candy candy one! So if you go up towards america.

O

I think the question was: how does it relate to the what's up at candia uh when.

G

40 feet and do it there, in other words, just see the boat lift up right.

G

There just curious how much it.

A

Now that's the track line 28 feet. So that's where it should have been based upon when you look out to the mangrove at 45 feet, but you're, not um you're, not supposed to come through and have to you know dip out into the you can see the shallowness so yeah it was that uh 30 feet.

A

Which, when that applicant came in the distance out to the mangroves, must have been shown further and it wasn't taken from where the you know the limit was, so that's. I believe how um that one this one most likely were permitted through.

A

I don't even believe those ever made it through to you guys, because they were done within the so-called limits of the 45s. If I'm not mistaken,.

L

Limits of the 45 and and the 40 feet further down right.

E

Yeah yeah there's several of them along there, but.

H

E

Should not have been approved, there's another.

H

One further up as well.

A

Yeah so yeah there's there's several out there that we're aware of 33 feet and that's up on the shelf.

A

That's good yeah. That's got an opening, so it kind of I'm good all.

A

A

L

And that particular property that has a floating lift and a four post lift.

A

Not sure if that was permitted is.

L

That permitting you're supposed to have 85 feet of seawall in order to have two lifts.

O

That's not been through this committee.

F

E

Anyway, I guess my opinion well, I've got several thoughts here is that you know previous wrongs, don't make this right um and we're dealing with losing uh the perimeter canal for for barges and dual boats and everything else, but at the same time we've got a homeowner that bought this because of being able to put a boat out there on a lift.

E

um My thought is that maybe we could ask the the homeowners go back and see what they could do, maybe again shortening down some of these arms. Maybe there's uh a little steeper slope on on the alivert itself or something to you know, try.

Q

It's a joining property um mass speaker.

E

Q

May I speak, I don't know I don't know, I'm not sure protocol. I'm sorry. Let me interrupt you either side of this property. Is it's got a seven foot structure going out.

Q

You know it's we're not asking to go out we're trying to stay in the general, the you know the the code states to be in general harmony with you know existing construction in the area either side of this property has got a structure. You know within 70 feet going seven feet outward.

E

But does that are those right? uh You know they're right because well.

Q

That's kind of the norm on that canal.

E

You know the code has been rewritten.

Q

No, I understand that, but we're not going out any further than than then I mean there's others that are much further out, that I agree with what you're saying that that's not right right.

F

Q

These are two, this is to a minimum. I mean he'd, be the only person on that canal so far that wouldn't be able to have a boat.

A

Anything, mr daltry, would you like peter to go ahead and go through his full, because obviously staff has done their presentation.

A

It's not quite time for board deliberation yet, but if we let mr atari give his presentation and support all of his facts and then then you can go and maybe some more questioning, maybe it um he'll provide you guys with some information to then carry on the discussion and we can move forward that way, hoping.

Q

More for questions, and then presentation- I mean that that was my. That was that was my presentation was that you know it's generally in the in the norm of what's in the with the adjoining properties not going out any further than than than what's existing and and the simple fact that.

Q

That he'd be the only property owner in there and say you can't have a boat. If you do, you gotta go to the boat ramp, you know and that's not why they bought the property, and uh I still feel you know we we go through there, a lot with barges. We've got five and we've never had any issue with getting by these other properties that are much further out.

Q

So this is not going to have an effect on barge traffic.

Q

um As far as some of you have deeper draft boats, I don't know because I haven't been on your best. I don't know how hard it is to get by there. I don't know what what you know a foot foot or so we'll do um we didn't do a bath metric survey, they're expensive, to make these homeowners go to get a bath dimension, so I mean I've gotten estimates for twenty five hundred and three grand for bathymetric survey: they're, not 200 bucks.

Q

You can't you can't get a ground survey for 200 bucks, so it makes it it's very expensive to pay 450 for a special application 450 for special engineering, because my drawings are no longer accepted, but you know for special permitting they are for building permits day and night. I've been doing them for 28 years, and these these this canal. These canals are narrowing. This perimeter, catalyst, narrowing I've been doing this for 28 years in punta gorda.

Q

This canal was wider 28 years ago, back in the days of shirley hummer, these mangroves grow and if they're not maintained, you know you close that canal up in in a period I've seen it happen in north port, where 10 and 15 years have gone by and the mangoes have just taken over the canal, so you know where's it going to go next. Is it going to be even narrower?

Q

You know without the without the uh um maintenance of the mangroves. I don't know. If I don't. Even I I don't come to all these meetings, so I don't know what the mitigation is on that if they talked about that issue of maybe trimming the mangroves back some.

Q

But um I don't I personally, I don't think the seven feet is going to harm the traffic pattern on that, especially since there is a structure within 75 feet on each side, at the same distance and further you know, but but a minimum of seven feet, there's the dock, the boat left to the north directly north and then there's a dock to the south.

Q

So I know the autonomies may have something to say uh having much more invested in this than I do and uh if they could have a moment to be permitted to speak. They are present. Thank you and if you have any other questions, just.

O

And before mr otani speaks, um I didn't want to be dismissive of your question or comment. This is the bathymetric survey information that was done in 2007 uh this that I'm pointing at is the otanis property next door. There there is a house there now it's owned by christopher nicole pena, who will have a special permit application before you next month um and then then, of course, there's a vacant lot here. But uh you know this is the the dredge and and bathymetric data in that canal. So it's pretty well centered.

O

um If anything, it might be a little deeper on the mangrove side.

F

E

You you want where to speak.

N

Yes, my name is charlie otani and I'm been sworn in and I'm the homeowner, my wife and I are the homeowner of the lot that we were going to build. We began the process. We bought that property about 2016..

N

We looked into the lift, then just to see what it was going to cost and things like that, but we weren't ready to build yet so we didn't want to start in october of this year we hired peter, and if that's when it sounds like this whole thing changed your statute changed, I think in october as well. If I would have known that, we would have built the lyft right then, and there and got it done before we had all these problems.

N

That's the only things has changed. Is you guys is way? You're looking at the canal has changed since when we were really started looking to get this thing built right without a lift we're not going to build it's just that simple. We want to have a home with the lift right and that's what our plan was we're going to retire in bucks, eight months. That was the plan.

N

So now we got to change our plans. If you guys don't give us a permit right and we're not asking for anything special above everybody else around us right. Just like peter said- and I did I looked it just like they did. The google maps measured everybody's uh width and their their dock, the widest part of their dock and the average distance into the canal for everybody else is about five feet.

N

I'm only asking for four right, and so the six things that you guys need to consider. I saw that to you on the chapter. It says that you know one of the things is the the waterway. Is it changing the waterway where people are have to avoid my my property, because I did something different: they don't it's still the straight line right. So that's all we're we're just asking for consideration that we get just the same consideration as our neighbors.

N

We're not asking for anything beyond that right just but for us the frustrating part was if we would have known in october. You guys were changing the rules. We would have asked for the permit right then, and there got started.

N

That's what's frustrating for us. I guess so. I appreciate your time. Thank you and for the consideration. Thank.

E

O

uh At this point, I think you can call three times for anyone in the audience. You know before you deliberate. If you're ready to go into board deliberation, you can ask for public comment three times then close the public hearing.

E

uh Anyone else want to speak on this application, so that's the first time right, no one! I have to ask two more times so second time. Anyone else would like to speak on this application now, the third time. Anyone else would like to speak on this application.

K

Ian milne, I move we close the public hearing. Second.

E

First and second, anyone opposed everyone agree all right. Okay, now we go into, I guess our deliberation.

P

E

Does anybody have anything they want to say then.

K

I move we allow this special permit.

D

I second the motion.

H

I I second the motion, but I'd like to also uh request that the otanis one of the dangers in this perimeter canal with these eleverts is folks. Stick them in the water they lower the elevate and go off for the day, leave the the tines sticking out into the canal and that's clearly a hazard in navigation. I know of several of these that have been hit, even though I think that made it into the code as a requirement for the.

A

I believe it did, I believe they have to mark them when they're in the water. I think there was some reflective tape. I forget exactly all the details, but I believe it is in there.

A

Just for the clerk's benefit of not being able to hear peter, they are going to purchase a remote, yes for the uh or the lift, so they will take it out of the water when not in use.

E

I I would be inclined to prove if there would be a an effort made to trim out or trim off those extensions to as much as practically possible, and you were suggesting at least 16 18 inches.

Q

That's that's a little bit of a lift with box beams.

A

Q

I we can order the lift.

A

Q

Extra cost, uh with the box beams and after the lift is on there we can slide them in and then through bolt them. So that's where they'll they'll be and use just as much beam as necessary.

Q

They won't come with more than seven feet from the factory um and then we can push them in once we set the set the bunks and we'd agree to that.

G

F

G

Sir question on regards to that they're, both and with because he brought up a good point where humans they may forget to raise it back up. Is there room the way that's configured right now and it take care of his problem too, to put a ballard on each one of those? So if it was inadvertently left in the water, you've got these two ballard sticking up, says hello.

E

In here, if the boat overhangs, that.

G

I'm saying if the boat overhangs it, you can't do it. You can't.

E

Unless you could.

G

Put a rig, you know and help them even getting it on the lift as well.

Q

I mean something that would float up in the water when it's in when it's submerged.

G

It's like on a four post, yeah.

E

You know you got the ballads.

G

You go in it lines you up on a four-post boat, lift.

Q

The only problem with that is that, then, you wouldn't be able to put the you'd, have to have the arms extended beyond the boat in order to put.

G

The guide posts on that's what I was asking is there a boat? Is there a way to do it? It doesn't fit within that.

Q

No, no! No, but we could. We could get the box beams and push them in any unused portion. That's what it's for, because down in the keys they're, they only have like 40 foot canals, so they they're specifically for the key. You know the keys are.

E

Like marathon box, actually slides, slides.

Q

In and then you through bolt it.

E

You know where you don't need it.

Q

Just set it inside where the, where the bunk is.

E

Q

And the boat will, when it's in the elevated position be sitting a portion over the seawall. You know in the elevated. So so, if it's a seven and a half foot, eight foot beam. It's going to be portion of it's going to be 18 inches over the seawall cap, because we'll put the rails at 21, 21 and a half degrees. They won't be at 45, so they'll be able to pull it.

E

Back all right, so are you guys? Okay with that.

H

Move to approve, as uh presented.

K

It's already been uh moved.

E

Moved so in favor, with the box beams being added all right, all right, everybody, okay motion carries all right all right. We got another one yep, no sir! Oh, that was the only one we had bob special apartment. Yes,.

O

There was one that had been submitted, but before it even went to advertising, uh they went through their application.

E

E

uh I guess we're up to new business. You got something gary. I.

A

E

Not you do not.

E

Is there any unfinished business there.

A

Is um I should have brought this up earlier as well? I'm looking at my notes here: unfinished business business mayor's cut pilings, uh mayor's cup pilings. uh As you all know, we submitted our application to army corps back march 18th of 2021.

A

um I sent a bump email june 1st just to find out where, where we were, we had responded to their rai back on april 30th.

A

We received comment today that they they received our response and it looks like they have everything they need, but that's the only news, so we don't know yet when we're are they sending it off to national marine fisheries? We don't know what the current trajectory of that project is so, okay, all right and that's it for the unfinished business that was on on the list there. Okay.

E

uh Does the board have any issues they want to talk about.

A

Well, I do have um on the next one their staff comments. uh Mr keane would like us to show you a boating safety.

A

M

Hello and welcome to the city of pontegorda, I'm pam davis, chief police for the punta border police department. The city of pontagona is a boating friendly community with over 55 miles of canals and surrounding waterways. We really want you to enjoy your time on the water, but we also want you to practice good boater safety.

M

This video is going to provide you with tips on the safe use of a vessel. It's also going to provide you with examples of a no wake zone and a minimum wake zone. When operating a vessel. Please enjoy the video and, on behalf of our pontogordo city, council, city manager, greg murray and the entire pontagona police department have fun and be safe on the water here in florida, harborside hometown punta gorda,.

R

Hi, I'm corporal true fan with the point of order police department marine unit in light of national safe boating week, we'd like to emphasize a few points to ensure the safety of boaters here in southwest florida. The first point we'd like to cover is the carriage requirements in general. Recreational boating need to have serviceable life jacket for everybody on board to ensure your life. Jackets are in compliance. You want to make sure they're proper, fitting they're, not frayed or torn, and they fit each individual occupant of the boat appropriately.

R

Any child under the age of six is required to have a life jacket on. If the boat's under 26 feet in length type 4 throwable flotation devices have to be immediately accessible, which means they can't be stored away in a hatch or a compartment.

R

You need to have a fire extinguisher, that's rated at a class b fire extinguisher. Typically, they are white in color that would ensure that you're able to put out flammable liquids and class cs also put out electrical fires. Typically, your marine fire extinguishers are both class b and class c.

R

Also you're going to have a whistle or sound producing device, an air horn, whistle electrical horn on the boat, but also flice, as well as a type 4 throwable, that's immediately accessible on board an article expands over two nautical miles, you're required to have visual distress, aid which could be flares or a non-pyrotechnic distress aid such as strobe or flag. We encourage the operator of any vessel while underway to operate wearing a kill, switch that will kill the engine in the event of a man overboard incident.

R

Recent federal legislation has required this on a federal level. However, still in legislation with the state, so it's not technically required, but we encourage every operator to wear one. Any vessel operated or stored on waters of the state is required to have proper lighting. According to the united states coast guard, a vessel underway needs proper navigation lights, as well as all-around white light and stern any vessel, while anchored is required to have one all-around white 360 degree visible light at all times in low light or night time.

R

Setting we'll follow proper boat ramp etiquette here at lashley or down at foster program and also comply with city ordinance. When you get your boat in the water like this gentleman down here is doing you want to pull it out and move it over to one of the docks that way: you're not parked right in the ramp and then go move your truck, try and avoid parking. Your boat right in the ramp, because sometimes it gets very busy, especially if there's a tournament.

S

All right so to demonstrate safely docking without having to have people with their arms over the sides or using boat hooks or anything like that. We're going to demonstrate, what's called a prop walk technique. We're going to come in at about a 45 degree angle, get the boat parallel with the dock and turn the engine all the way towards the dock and reverse it. To pull the stern in towards the dock.

R

So when we're talking about going underway, leaving the dock the safest way to do it is to reverse away from the dock. A lot of people like to push off or try and pull forward away from the dock, and that causes an issue where your boat's going to be bouncing against the dock and again we don't want to have an excess of people reaching over and pushing, and things like that, because then that's when injuries can happen. Recently, we've had several calls regarding speed violations in our local waterways, an example of slow speed.

R

Minimum wake would be the boat completely settled in the water, with no rise in the valve. The difference between slow speed, minimum wake and idle speed is idle. Speed is the slowest the vessel can possibly travel and maintain steerage we'd like to remind everyone to boast safely and sober impaired driving can be just as bad on the water as it is on the road. It could also end up in a boating under the influence charge and land you in jail.

R

If you have any specific questions on what you may need for your exact vessel, because sometimes it varies based on size and types of engines, you can refer to uscg.org city of puna. Gorda is very much a boater-friendly community. We encourage residents and visitors alike to get out and enjoy the water, but we want everyone to do it safely.

O

And I just to follow up to a question mr perkins had found on in our ordinance on page 6-18. It's section 2 2-3, any permitted structure, including elevates, which remain lowered into the water, shall be marked in such a way. That said, structure is clearly visible above the water line for the safety of passing vessels.

O

So we do have something that requires it.

O

Perhaps that'd be a good, a good thing for us to just put out in our uh you know in our city managers, weekly report or or something just to like, like this for boater safety, um just to remind people that it is a requirement.

O

Q

We do, um we do put reflective tape on the end of those eleverts. You know the rails and also we put our marine contracting group logo.

Q

It's like a bumper sticker. You know on each trail, there's.

F

A

Q

G

Okay, I was referring like when it's in the water you've got that balance set. So there's something other. You have no idea what you should right, but stay clear of it.

E

Anything else gary.

A

Any other staff comments any other. We good you good committee board comments, yeah.

E

We still got committee any and we got citizens final comments from the committee. Okay, if that's the case, uh any final citizens comments before we close guess we're ready to close in all for jeremy, all righty we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank.

G

G

You don't regret, I know it wouldn't extend even more but to me the same thing, because they're gonna put reflective tape on there when it's elevated to see it especially at night and if they just put the witness post out there they're ballard what they are. If they did have to forget. There's no issue because there's a ballot sticking about the word.

E

Well, the guy, that's on the corner. We all talk about yeah. They made him always keeping an.

E

E