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B
D
E
D
F
D
B
B
B
D
And
what
I'm
gonna
do,
because
I
know
I
told
you
this
before
is
that
I
was
hoping
to
do
sort
of
an
introductory
presentation
on
fines
and
fees
before
the
panel,
but
the
city
had
major
technical
difficulties
on
rpa,
so
I
was
unable
to
do
that,
so
we're
going
to
be
doing
things
a
little
backwards
where
we're
going
to
have
this
panel
and
then
I'm
going
to
reinforce
some
of
the
learning.
After
so
don't
worry,
I
think
that
you
know
the.
D
A
E
D
A
A
I
know
I
know
it.
The
rain
in
santa
fe
is
also
very
very
special.
It
is
yeah
it's
something
else
I
wanted
to.
Let
you
know
monica
and
everyone
councilwoman
via
real,
is
going
from
her
office
to
her
home.
So
she'll
probably
be
maybe
a
little
couple
of
minutes
after
that's
half
hour,
but
yeah
yeah
right.
D
I
was
gonna
just
tell
michelle
and
umi,
I
mean
they're
from
san
francisco
and
chicago
well,
they're
not
from
there,
but
that's
where
they're
at
right,
and
so
their
experience
with
rain
is
very
different
from
ours.
Where
we're
like
praying
for
it,
and
you
know
it's
like
an
event
when
it
starts
raining
here,.
A
D
You
we're
like
in
the
street
and
it's
all
anyone
can
talk
about.
It's
like
all
joy,
all
the
time,
the
best
thing
that
could
ever
happen
to
us
and
also
my
plants,
I
water
them.
I
give
them
so
much
love
and
they
just
react
differently
to
rainwater.
I'm
like
what's
in
this,
there
has
to
there's
something
in
rainwater
that
just
really
makes
my
plants
happy.
My
like
zucchini
and,
like
my
chili,
like
it
just
looks
so
happy
right
now,
so
it's
nice.
H
D
D
Be
good
all
right,
so
I'm
all
what
terrible
thing
is
about
to
happen
in
the
place
where
you
are
at
I'm.
So
sorry
that
I,
but
you
know
it's
interesting
yeah
yeah
I
was.
I
got
teased
in
law
school
because
I
went
to
law
school
in
san
francisco
and
I
am
from
the
desert.
I've
never
experienced
an
earthquake
before
and
there
was
a
small
earthquake
and
it
started
when
we
were
in
class
and
I
sort
of
was
like
what
is
that.
D
For
the
rest
of
class,
because
I
was
speaking
and
it's
law
school
so
they're
all
intense
about
when
you
speak,
and
but
it
was
nice
because
they
didn't
make
me
continue
to
speak
after
and
to
be
fair,
I
hadn't
done
the
reading,
so
it
was
really.
It
was
really
useful
in
that
sense,
but
I
got
made
fun
of
after.
H
H
D
D
C
D
J
I
put
it
in
my
calendar
for
two
hours
earlier,
so
5
30
in
my
david
pay
I
put
in
3
30.,
so
I
had
my
whole
thing
planned
around
3
30
until
bethany
called
me
earlier
and
said
the
7
30
meeting,
which
I
said:
no,
don't
you
understand
mountain
time,
so
I
tried
to
mansplain
her
on
mountain
time.
Oh
no
how'd
that
go.
It
didn't
go
well
and
then
I
was
disabused
of
my
my
notion
so.
D
K
C
D
D
J
E
D
D
F
L
C
C
D
D
I'm
gonna
have
and
our
panelists
don't
either
we're
just
going
to
talk.
When
I
follow
up
and
we
have
a
sort
of
deeper
discussion
on
some
fines
and
fees
reforms,
then
I
will
need
it
and
I
would
have
needed
it
doing
the
presentation
before,
but
I
just
didn't
want
to
cut
into
anybody's
time
so
we're
just
gonna
chat
today.
C
D
K
C
D
L
C
C
L
Just
on
a
side
note,
larry
he's
he's
helped
me
out
a
lot,
because
I
got
some
inquiries
about
teaching
firearms
training
to
school
resource
officers
that
aren't
commissioned
law
enforcement,
so
he's
he
has
a
lot
of
knowledge
there
and
it
was
very
helpful
in
working
with
the
school
district.
I
was
asked
to
train
for
each
forum.
C
Excuse
me,
I'm
actually
like
discombobulated
a
little
bit.
I
was
supposed
to
be
at
my
other
office
and
I
have
to
run
home
because
my
credentials
don't
work
anymore
city
credentials,
don't
work
anywhere
else.
I
found
out
about
the
rush,
so
I'm
glad
to
be
able
to
get
us
all
together
today
and
I
actually
think
I'm
just
checking.
I
don't
think
we
have
any
community
members
on,
but
most
of
our
task
force
members,
not
many
people
join
us.
A
Yes,
absolutely
good
evening,
everyone
and
welcome
to
the
city
of
santa
fe,
community,
health
and
safety
task
force,
a
re
really
quick
roll
call.
We've
got
councilwoman,
renee
villarreal,
monica
halt,
annie,
rasquin,
emily
kennobot
bach
and
bruce
finger,
and
I
believe
gino
will
be
joining
shortly.
Excuse
tonight
is
marcella
chris
and
mary
louise
and
we
have
our
our
gracious.
C
And
I
just
want
to
say
before
we
start
just
some
of
you
I
got
to.
I
didn't
actually
get
to
meet
fully
at
the
boot
camp
in
phoenix
in
march,
and
I
learned
so
much
from
many
of
you
and
so
excited
to
actually
be
able
to
see
you
in
the
zoom
and
be
able
to
hear
and
learn
from
you
and
actually
excited
that.
C
My
colleagues
get
to
listen
and
learn
from
you
all
as
well,
because
I
know
all
of
us
couldn't
attend
in
person
for
the
boot
camp
and
I
just
think
it
would
be
it's
the
work
you're
doing
and
what
you've
been
doing
is
extremely
important
and
we
look
to
you
for
guidance
and
I'm
just
excited
also
to
have
an
elected
official
here
as
well,
because
I
I
know
the
struggles
of
that
world
so
and
and
bethany.
You
totally
inspired
me.
C
D
Thank
you
so
much
and
thank
you
everybody
for
joining
us
tonight,
as
everyone
here
knows,
but
I'll
reiterate,
I
am
going
to
do
a
follow-up
presentation
on
fines
and
fees
reform.
We
were
hoping
to
do
that
two
weeks
prior,
but
we
had
some
technical
difficulties
with
the
cities
we
weren't
able
to
do
that.
D
The
main
thing
we'll
be
discussing
tonight
will
most
likely
be
fee
reform,
not
necessarily
fines,
but
just
so
that
we
have
sort
of
a
a
universal
vocabulary
for
the
evening.
Fines
are
part
of
the
sentence
in
theory,
they're
supposed
to
deter
people
from
crime
or
from
commit
breaking
the
law,
and
it's
really
it's
meant
as
a
punishment,
there's
a
range
of
different
fines
here
in
new
mexico
and
munici.
D
As
far
as
municipal
courts,
we
have
a
a
very
sort
of
different,
a
different
structure
and
we
we
impose
fines
for
criminal
cases
and
for
traffic.
That's
unique
here
in
new
mexico,
because,
unlike
some
of
the
places
we're
going
to
hear
about
today,
new
mexico
is
one
of
13
states
where
traffic
is
criminalized.
D
D
This
is
really
important,
because
when
you
criminalize
something,
there's
always
the
potential
that
you
could
go
to
jail,
it
may
not
be
part
of
the
punishment,
but
you
can
issue
a
bench
warrant
for
failure
to
appear
or
failure
to
pay
in
a
traffic
case,
which
means
you
can
go
to
jail
for
something
as
small
as
a
cracked
windshield
and
that's
also
true
in
the
city
of
santa
fe.
That
doesn't
mean
that
it
happens
all
of
the
time,
but
it's
possible
fees.
D
L
D
Yeah
right,
so
it's
something
that
a
lot
of
us
have
experienced.
A
lot
of
us
have
experienced
that
within
the
traffic
context,
so
we
have
something
you
know
there
there's
a
lot
of
stories
around
it.
The
other
thing
that
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
is
restitution
is
something
entirely
different
and
the
idea
is
that
it's
it's
compensation
to
a
victim
of
crime
for
costs
incurred
as
a
result
of
that
crime.
That's
the
idea
of
restitution
restitution
is
not
a
fine
or
a
fee.
It's
something
very
different
in
new
mexico.
D
Just
to
give
you
an
idea
of
how
how
fees
or
how
often
fees
are
in
this
system,
we
have
it
everywhere
right.
There's,
electronic
monitoring,
there's
drug
testing,
ankle,
ankle,
monitors,
sober
links,
urine
analysis,
ignition,
interlocks,
evaluation
classes,
counseling
pre-trial
services.
All
of
these
things,
you
have
to
pay
for
it
and
that's
pre-trial.
D
Then
we
talk
about
conviction,
there's
a
whole
host
of
conviction,
fees
that
are
attached
to
every
single
conviction
in
this
state
and
in
our
city
that
includes
for
traffic
offenses.
Then,
if
you're
on
probation,
you
have
to
pay
all
your
fines,
fees
and
restitution
and
you
have
to
pay
for
electronic
monitoring
classes.
All
of
the
things
that
you
had
to
pay
for
for
pre-trial
then
there's
other
fees
that
can
you
can
occur
incur
when
you're
in
jail
right.
D
There's,
communication
fees,
medical
care
fees,
commissary,
so
you
know
standard
hygiene
products
you
have
to.
You
have
to
pay
for
all
of
these
things
right
and
in
some
jurisdictions,
not
in
the
city
of
santa
fe.
Thankfully
there
are
things
called
booking
fees,
and
these
do
exist
in
the
state
of
new
mexico,
where
you
actually
have
to
pay
to
stay.
So
if
you
get
picked
up
you're
arrested
and
they
book
you
into
the
jail,
you
have
to
pay
25
to
stay.
D
D
They
will
actually
take
that
money
out
of
your
commissary
account
to
pay
for
your
booking
fee.
For
your
previous
booking
fee
and
your
current
booking
fee,
there's
also
fees
attached
to
things
that,
I
would
say,
are
sort
of
quasi
criminal
they're,
like
civil
fees
that
are
adjacent
to
the
criminal
process,
and
this
is
driver's
license,
reinstatement
fees,
towing
and
booking
fees
and
impound
fees.
D
In
my
experience,
as
a
public
defender,
I
very
frequently
experience
clients
who
would
abandon
their
vehicles
after
they
were
impounded.
Most
of
my
clients.
Their
vehicles
were
one
of
were
probably
the
the
most
valuable
possession
that
they
actually
owned.
So
when
that
was
taken
and
they
could
no
longer
afford,
they
couldn't
afford
to
get
their
vehicle
back.
They
just
left
it
there,
so
it
literally
drove
them
deeper
into
poverty.
D
So
these
are
some
of
the
and,
oh,
I'm
sorry,
there's
one
other
sort
of
bucket
of
fees
which
are
a
bench
warrant
fees.
New
mexico
has
one
of
the
highest
bench
warrant
fees
in
the
country.
It's
a
hundred
dollars
every
time
a
bench
warranty
is
issued
and
that's
for
failing
to
appear
to
a
court
hearing
or
when
you
can't
pay.
So
if
you
even
just
miss
a
payment,
you
they
can
issue
a
bench
warrant
and
you
can
be
charged
another
hundred
dollars
on
top
of
whatever
else
you
owe.
D
So.
I
just
wanted
to
provide
some
context
of
how
deep
this
system
is
and
and
give
you
a
little
bit.
I'm
gonna
give
you
one
little
statistic:
that's
useful
for
this,
and
while
it
doesn't
deal
with
the
city
of
santa
fe,
it
deals
with
santa
fe
county
and
the
state
in
general,
so
in
from
2012
to
2016-
and
this
is
across
district
magistrate
and
metro
courts,
almost
18
million
dollars
in
jail
credits
were
issued.
D
So
what
that
means
is
that
individuals
owed
that
amount
of
money
and
they
actually
chose
jail
instead
of
paying
and
it's
not
that
they
chose
it.
It's
that
they
literally
didn't
have
the
money
to
pay
those
and
they
went
to
jail.
Instead,
this
is
18
million
dollars
that
the
state
never
collected
and
instead,
what
the
state
did
is
they
doubled
down
and
paid
for
those
individuals
to
then
be
incarcerated
to
quote-unquote
pay
that
off.
D
So
this
is
sort
of
the
kind
of
perverse
practice
and
really
nonsensical
practice
of
of
fee
assessment
and
co,
or
attempt
at
collection
that
is
going
on
across
the
country.
There's
a
variety
of
reforms
that
are
going
on
and
we
have
some
wonderful
people
today
to
talk
about
how
they've
been
whittling
away
at
this
system
through
their
city
and
county
work.
D
I
Hi
thanks
so
much
I'm
so
happy
to
be
here.
I
think
I
have
about
10
minutes
for
my
kind
of
discussion,
so
I'll
try
to
get
through
everything
in
that
period
of
time.
So
I
work
at
the
king
county
department
of
public
defense,
I'm
our
special
counsel
for
criminal
practice
and
policy,
and
I've
worked
here
in
seattle,
king
county,
for
almost
16
years.
I
I've
spent
most
of
my
time
like
representing
clients
in
court,
mostly
in
juvenile
court,
defending
kids
charged
with
crimes
and
then
also
worked
in
adult
court
for
some
time
as
well
and
now
focus
on
a
lot
of
you
know,
policy
work,
and
so
some
of
my
work
has
centered
around
fines
and
fees.
Reforms
specifically
around
restitution
and
the
reason
we
decided
to
focus
on
restitution
was
because
we've
actually
made
like
listening
to.
You
talk
about
kind
of
the
situation
in
new
mexico.
I
You
know,
I
think,
we've
made
a
lot
of
strides
in
seattle
and
king
county
around
fines
and
fees
like
in
my
entire
career.
As
a
public
defender,
I
think
I
saw
one
client
issued
a
fine
on
a
case
that
I
was
like
in
complete
shock.
I
remember
at
the
time
I
was
like.
Oh
my
god,
I
was
stunning
to
hear
the
judge
impose
the
fine
really
stunning,
like
we
certainly
and
then
fees
there's
been
a
lot
of
work
over
the
years
to
try
to
reduce
those.
I
I
So
someone
will
be
found
guilty.
The
court
will
order
restitution
of
300
to
pay
to
the
harmed
party,
and
then
the
hermit
party
will
never
see
that
money
right.
The
person
doesn't
have
the
ability
to
pay,
nobody
thinks
they
have
the
ability
to
pay,
and
so
the
the
harmed
party
is
also
kind
of
like,
given
a
promise
that
they'll
get
this
money,
but
then
never
actually
receive
that
money,
and
so
it's
and
then
our
clients
can
see
kind
of
really
negative
consequences
of
that
right.
I
They
may
not
be
able
to
get
their
case
diverted
they
may
not
be
able
to
get
their
case
dismissed.
They
may
have
different
kind
of
pathways
or
case
benefits,
cut
off
to
them
because
they're
not
able
to
to
pay
the
restitution
obligation,
and
so
we
started
doing
work
in
king
county
really
in
2020,
where
we
were
starting.
A
youth
community
response
for
there's
always
been
a
lot
of
kind
of
increasing
amounts
of
community
responses
for
young
people
in
king
county.
I
But
this
one
really
was
broader
in
scope.
The
one
we
started
recently
called
restorative
community
pathways
and
also
handled
felony
level
cases
as
well
kind
of
a
varying
degrees,
but
one
key
part
of
that
was
that
the
prosecutor
said
that
before
they
would
kind
of
agree
to
this
additional
community
response,
they
really
wanted
a
government-funded
restitution
account.
I
I'm
having
restitution
paid
for
a
restitution
fund
that
was
funded
by
the
the
county,
and
so
that
was
a
key
kind
of
part
of
this,
and
it
was
much
better
for
the
harmed
party
right
because
they
would
have
their
material
needs
met.
It
would
be
done
much
earlier
in
the
process
instead
of
waiting
months
or
years.
Of
course,
a
lot
of
times.
The
process
was
hard
for
the
harmed
party
right.
You
would
have
someone
like
me,
a
defense
attorney
saying.
I
I
You
know
it's
an
important
process
for
us
to
do,
but
it
was
not
a
very
good
response
for
the
harmed
party,
and
so
this
way
they
could
have
a
better
earlier
response
closer
in
time
and
they
actually
are
suffering
loss
and,
at
the
same
time
it's
not
a
burden,
that's
attaching
to
our
client,
and
so
we
started
this.
I
think
it
was.
You
know
it
was
pretty
exciting.
We
started
this
in
2020
for
young
people.
I
It
was
a
much
more
concerted
effort
I
would
say
than
in
juvie
when
or
the
juvenile
the
youth
program
when
it
was
part
of
like
a
much
larger
initiative.
This
was
a
very
specific
targeted
approach
with
this
victim
compensation
fund
in
seattle,
and
so
we
really
got
a
lot
of
data
about
how
much
our
seattle
municipal
court
was
collecting
and
restitution
each
year,
how
much
they
were
imposing
how
often
it
was
imposed.
I
What
was
the
max
amount?
What
was
the
mean
amount?
You
know
all
these
kind
of
different
pieces
like
that
to
really
get
a
sense
for
if
they
were
to
fund
a
restitution
amount,
how
much?
How
much
should
it
be?
How
much
the
restitution
would
that
cover
and
just
kind
of
like
how?
What
sort
of
impact
would
it
make,
and
so
we
kind
of
came
together
collected
that
data?
I
We
worked
at
the
time
really
collaboratively
with
our
city
attorney's
office
to
to
make
this
recommendation
to
the
city
council
really
that
they
should
adopt
a
hundred
thousand
dollar
victim
compensation
fund
to
to
kind
of
respond
to
and
to
really
prior
to.
You
know,
look
at
those
situations
where
the
imposition
of
restitution
was,
it
was
happening,
and
it
was
also
harming
the
individual
in
some
way
right
that
the
individual
who
was
charged
right.
They
were
not
able
to
go
to
a
diversion
program,
maybe
because
of
it
they
couldn't
finish.
I
What's
the
max,
can
people
appeal
what
is
the
mechanism
for
how
they're
going
to
get
that
you
know
we?
It
was
really
very
important
that
you
know
our
community
partners
have
been
leading
these
efforts
here
in
seattle,
county
and
really
demanding
a
less
harmful
criminal
legal
system
and
better
response,
and
so
you
know
we
have.
I
You
know,
hopefully
much
more
tied
in
with
the
community,
much
less
kind
of
a
vestige
or
part
of
the
the
government
legal
system
response,
but
making
sure
that
we're
able
to
do
it
in
a
way
that
meets
the
needs
of
the
harmed
parties
and
also
does
it
in
a
way.
That's
can
also
mitigate
or
kind
of
help.
Someone
avoid
the
criminal
legal
system
process
entirely
so,
like
I've
talked
for
a
while,
now
really
fast.
So
I
apologize
for
going
so
fast,
but
really
eager
to
hear
kind
of
any
questions.
People
have.
D
D
D
I
Yeah
so
there's
two
funds,
one
is
for
youth
and
that's
solely
as
part
of
a
diversion,
a
community
response,
and
so
that's
for
kids,
who
can
be
charged
with
anything
from
misdemeanor
shoplifting
to
first
time
kind
of
lower-level,
robbery
cases,
and
so
it's
a
residential
burglary.
So
it's
pretty
broad
who
is
able
to
who
can
potentially
fit
into
that
community
level
response,
and
so
there's
that
restitution
fund,
which
I
think
is
a
hundred.
But
it
was
part
of
a
much
larger
kind
of
budget
proposal.
I
I
We
don't
really
like
to
call
it
a
diversion
and
the
youth
scheme,
because
we
really
like
to
think
of
it
as
the
primary
response
and
that
the
system
should
really
be
very
rarely
kind
of
turn
to
and
and
in
the
the
seattle
municipal
court
space,
the
seattle
space.
It's
kind
of
much
more
much
broader
the
types
and
of
cases
it
can
apply
to
it's,
not
just
in
the
kind
of
community
response
arena.
C
I
I
Instead
of
spending
the
money
on
me
and
public
defender
to
kind
of
fight
a
harm.
That's
the
government's
trying
to,
from
our
perspective,
cause
a
client
much
better
to
spend
that
money
on
meeting
kind
of
the
needs
of
the
individual
meeting,
the
material
needs
of
the
harmed
party,
and
so
with
the
diversion
program
kind
of
diversion
fund.
I
It
really
was
a
cut
of
to
the
system
to
say:
well,
there's
gonna
be
fewer
cases
because
of
this
program,
so
that
means
fewer
public
defenders.
Fewer
juvenile
probation,
counselors,
less
money
for
the
infrastructure,
we're
going
to
use
that
money
to
pay
for
navigators
for
kids
navigators
for
harmed
parties.
The
restitution
fund,
like
a
backup
fund
for
people
to
help
you
know
kids
and
families
meet
their
material
needs,
and
so
it
was
this
really,
this
very
principal
decision
to
say
that
you
know
with
limited
funds.
I
D
K
Allowed
to
ask
questions:
you're
a
guest
okay,
so
my
real
question
was
about
the
money,
but
since
renee
you
took
care
of
that
already.
I
want
to
know
about
the
controversy
with
the
money,
because
that
seems
to
be
like
my
entire
career
on
council
has
been
just
controversy,
trying
to
get
people
to
do
like
basic
things
for
our
community.
So
what
my
question,
I
guess
specifically,
is
is:
did
you
sell
this
divestment
model
to
council
members
as
like
a
package
deal
with
other
things,
or
did
you
do
like
individually?
Did
you
say?
I
I
I
Things
like
that
there
was
really
a
really
strong
call
from
the
community
to
say
that
it
shouldn't
be
the
government,
that's
trying
to
meet
the
needs
of
people,
it
should
be
community
organizations
and
that
probation
shouldn't
be
funded
to
do
that
work,
and
so
the
prosecutor's
office
decided
that
they,
they
weren't
gonna.
That
probation
wouldn't
need
to
monitor
the
diversions
here.
Instead,
we
were
gonna
really
fund
the
community
to
do
that.
Work.
D
B
You
so
much
monica,
and
thank
you
guys
for
having
having
me
here
and
all
of
us
here,
so
my
name
is
yumi
grigsby,
I'm
currently
the
chief
of
staff
at
the
chicago
foundation
for
women.
Previously
I
worked
at
the
office
of
city
clerk
of
the
city
of
chicago
as
her
chief
of
policy
and
advocacy
and
just
to
show
you
a
little
bit
of
the
overlap
of
you
know:
criminal
justice
and
fines
and
fees.
B
I
was
also
previously
an
assistant
state's
attorney,
so
I
was
a
prosecutor
prior
to
that
with
cook
county
here
in
illinois,
so
just
right
off
the
bat,
I'm
not
speaking
on
behalf
of
my
city
of
chicago
cook,
county
or
chicago
foundation
for
women,
but
I
would
like
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
journey
in
fines
and
fees
reform
so
in
the
city
of
chicago
of
2.7
million.
Only
because
I
took
notes
that
we
needed
to
tell
you,
you
know
the
size
of
the
city
that
we're
working
with.
B
B
What
is
our
wheel
tax,
which
is
the
city
sticker,
so
around
2018,
which
is
before
my
tenure
as
chief
of
policy
and
advocacy
wbz
propublica,
and
a
couple
of
our
advocacy
groups,
including
kofi,
had
put
out
information
and
reports
about
the
city
sticker
ticket
debt
being
the
number
one
driver
of
debt
for
black
and
brown
communities
in
the
south
and
west
sides
of
chicago,
and
knowing
that
city
clerk
anna
valencia
brought
together
a
working
group
in
december
of
2018.
That
was
a
cross-section
of
community
groups.
B
We
had
academia
represented
in
the
form
of
university
of
chicago
and
loyola.
We
also
had
aldermen
at
the
table
nonprofits
and
philanthropy
at
the
table,
as
well
as
the
head
of
different
city
departments,
including
the
department
of
finance,
the
office
of
management
and
budget,
because
one
of
the
things
that
should
also
be
clear
is
that,
while
the
city
clerk
sells
the
city
sticker,
the
department
of
finance
collects
or
enforces
the
city
sticker
ticket.
B
B
So
the
city
sticker,
I
think,
varies
in
in
amount
depending
on
the
size
of
your
car,
but
for
the
most
part
it's
about
93,
the
city
sticker
ticket,
though
for
not
having
that
is
about
200
and
then
their
late
fees
and
back
charges.
If
you
don't
have
the
if
you
haven't,
purchased
your
city
sticker,
if
you
fall
out
of
compliance,
so
ultimately
the
city
clerk
decided
that
she
was
going
to
put
forth
a
an
ordinance
that
was
passed
around
a
reduced
term
sticker,
which
is
about
four
months.
B
It
was
around
32
and
then
also
was
going
to
put
fourth
in
amnesty
month.
At
the
time
there
was
a
mayoral
election.
The
city
clerk
had
spoken
to
all
of
the
candidates
who
were
running
and
ultimately,
when
mayor
lori
lightfoot
was
elected,
they
came
together
and
talked
about
doing
a
joint
reform
and
doing
a
joint
amnesty
month,
and
so
what
ended
up
happening
was
the
city
clerk
was
going
to
go
first
and
do
an
amnesty
month
on
back
fees
and
late
charges
for
the
city
sticker,
the
city
sticker
itself.
B
Once
people
came
into
compliance,
then
they
had
the
opportunity
to
have
their
city
sticker
debt
ticket
debt
completely
forgiven
for
the
month,
so
it
ended
up
being,
I
believe
we
went
in.
We
went
in
october
and
then
november
or
december.
That
was
when
the
city
took
over
with
their
amnesty
month.
So
in
that
month
we
forgave
around
the
number
here,
but
around
11
million
in
city
sticker
debt
ticket
debt.
B
At
that
point,
we
then
were
selected
as
part
of
the
fines
and
fees
cohort
which
lots
of
my
partners
are
here
today
and
we
decide.
I
think
that
one
of
the
main
reasons
that
we
were
selected
is
because
not
only
do
we
have
the
department
of
finance
and
the
office
of
management
and
budget,
but
we
also
had
the
community
groups,
which
was
once
still
very
invested
in
making
sure
that
we
carried
things
across
the
finish
line.
B
So,
ultimately,
outside
of
that
we
had
outside
of
that.
The
city
clerk
also
was
a
part
of
a
group
that
was
lobbying
the
governor
around
stopping
driver's
license
suspensions,
and
so,
even
though
that
didn't
fall
under
what
we
were
doing,
we
were
able
to
say
this
is
also
a
part
of
the
problem.
Is
that
people
weren't
saying
that
they
didn't
want
to
pay
or
they
didn't
want
to
be
in
compliance?
It
was
just
impossible.
B
You
were
basically
trying
to
get
money
from
a
stone
I'm
from
liberia,
so
I
don't
really
know
what
these
sayings
are.
I
think
it's
something
about
not
being
able
to
get
something
from
a
rock
or
something
like
that,
but
ultimately,
our
our
argument,
all
along
was
that
people
were
not
saying
you
know
we
don't
want
to
be
in
compliance.
B
B
When
we
weren't
involved
involving
the
community
groups,
there
were
unforeseen
consequences,
which
is
that
you
know,
even
if
you're
saying,
okay,
we
stopped
the
doubling
of
city
stickers.
People
were
just
like,
but
look
at
all
of
these
other
things
that
you
know
you're
doing
and
all
these
other
burdens
some
of
the
pushback
that
we
got
was
you
know.
Obviously
there
were
aldermen
that
were
saying
things
like.
Oh
you
know
I
pay
all
of
my.
You
know
I
pay
all
of
my
tickets.
I
don't
understand
it's
not
that
bad.
Why
are
they
quote?
B
B
You
know
outcome
and
another
thing
that
the
I
think
the
community
groups
are
able
to
understand
is
how
the
city
was
interpreting
the
data
in
order
to
make
decisions
around
policies.
I
think
that
was
another
thing.
Is
that,
like
there's,
not
a
lot
of
transparency
in
the
data
that
is
available
and
then
there's
not
a
lot
of
transparency
in
the
way
that
data
is
being
used?
And
I
think
that
was
another
thing
that
we
did?
B
Was
we
opened
up
the
city
to
sharing
the
data
with
the
community
group
so
that
we
could
go
through
this
collaborative
process
of
having
both
a
community
group
say?
Okay,
we
understand
that
you
want
to
get
to
here,
but
ultimately
you're
misreading
this
data
point
or
you
know,
you're,
not
taking
into
account
you're
looking
at
an
average
right
you're,
not
necessarily
looking
into
how
this
is.
B
So
one
example
is
that
when
they
first
started
to
double
the
city
sticker
ticket
debt,
they
thought
that
they
were
going
for
people
in
wrigleyville
right,
and
I
we
kept
hearing
this
this
story
about
this
phantom
person
in
wrigleyville
that
had
this
porsche,
that
they
were
hiding.
You
know
in
someone's,
you
know
covered
garage,
and
so
you
know
the
idea
was,
if
you
double
the
city
sticker
ticket,
we're
getting
those
people
we're
getting
people
on
the
gold
coast
that
aren't
paying
for
their
city
stickers,
because
they're
hiding
their
cars.
B
You
know
in
the
in
their
garages
and
their
covered
garages.
But
ultimately,
what
you
weren't
hearing
people
talk
about
is
the
fact
that
certain
communities
are
over
police
and
certain
communities
have
more
of
a
presence
of
of
police,
and
so
therefore,
the
enforcement
wasn't
necessarily
happening
gold
coast
or
in
wrigleyville.
The
enforcing
was
happening
on
the
south
and
west
sides,
so
I'll
stop
there.
But
I
think
what
I'm
most
part
proud
of
is
the
way
that
we
worked
collaboratively
with
the
community
groups.
D
Thank
you
so
much
umi
dude.
Does
anybody
have
any
questions
about
okay?
It
looks
like
we.
We
have
a
couple
and
also
just
for
context.
Does
everybody
know
what
wrigleyville's
like
or
the
gold
coast
compared
to
the
rest
compared
to
the
south
side?
I
know
that
bruce
does.
But
you
know
wrigleyville,
that's
that's
where
wrigley
stadium
is
it's
that's.
B
So
one
of
the
issues
that
we
had
in
you
know
first
off
one
of
the
reasons
that
we
got
our
partners.
Our
academic
partners
was
to
be
able
to
evaluate
the
impact
that
we're
having
over
time,
but
once
we
started,
then
we
had
covet
hit,
and
so
you
know
everyone
sort
of
everyone
sort
of
came
to
the
conclusion
that
we
never
really
had
like
a
control
right
like
we
never
really
had
like
a
optimal
circumstances
within
which
to
figure
out
what
the
impact
was.
B
D
B
L
B
Suspension
is
how
are
you
ever
going
to
get
ahead
if
there
are
just
all
of
these
barriers
that
are
compounded,
and
you
just
get
to
a
point
where
you're
just
like
I
give
up
you
know
my
car
is
impounded.
My
driver's
license
suspended
debt
collectors
are
coming
after
me,
I
mean
even
the
credit
cards.
I
think
the
credit
card
companies
stop
after
seven
years,
and
you
know
the
city
of
chicago
does
not
have
a
statue
of
limitations
on
that.
So
that
is
something
that
we
brought
up
in.
D
D
There
was
a
wonderful
report
that
was
done
here
in
new
mexico
by
the
brennan
center
for
justice,
and
what
they
found
is
that
the
cost
of
collections
so
far
outweighs
the
actual
revenue
that
you
get.
They
found
that
in
bernalillo
county
alone
that
the
county
spends
a
dollar
17
to
collect
one
dollar
of
revenue,
so
that-
and
it's
one
of
the
so
and
this
this
particular
report
studied
three
different
states
and
three
different
counties
in
each
state
and
bernalillo
county
was
the
worst
offender.
D
It
was
they're
the
only
one
that
was
actually
losing
money
going
after
these
fees,
so
something
that
is
often
lost
on,
because
it
wasn't
studied
right
on
city
and
county
govern
governments.
Is
that
cost
of
collections
and
sort
of
the
cost?
Shifting
that
happens,
for
example,
counties
here
in
new
mexico
counties?
Are
the
ones
that
that
are
in
charge
of
the
jails
cities
pay
counties
to
house
their
to
to
house
people?
D
There's
some
very
interesting
cost
shifting
that
goes
on
and
the
county.
So,
for
example,
some
of
the
stuff
that
we've
worked
on
at
the
state
level.
The
counties
have
always
been
very
supportive
of
the
fine
and
fee
reform
movement
here
because
of
how
much
money
counties
are
spending
incarcerating
folks
for
failure
to
pay,
and
nobody
ever
sees
this
money.
D
If
we
change
this,
but
we're
actually
losing
money
right
now
so-
and
there
are
some
other
things
like
santa
fe
county,
for
example,
not
the
city
of
santa
fe,
but
santa
fe
county,
they
spend
41
cents
to
to
collect
one
dollar,
so
not
as
bad
as
bernalillo
county,
but
still
not
great,
still
far
exceeds
what
the
irs
spends
on
collections
for
taxes.
So
it's
an
interesting
way
to
sort
of
gauge
how
how
we're
achieving
these
goals.
Right
of
revenue
and
potentially
public
safety.
B
And
monica
I
do
have
to
run,
but
I
just
I
also
want
to
say
just
another
shout
out
to
the
fines
and
beast
justice
center
into
the
cohort.
Is
that
that
data
is
readily
available
and
they
not
only
give
you
the
data,
but
they
help
to
give
you
other
comparisons
like
monica.
Just
did
so
that
you're
able
to
make
that
argument
and
having
the
community
groups
there
that
are
feeling
it
in
real
time
is
just
so
much
more
effective
in
making
that
argument.
But
thank
you
guys
so
much
for
having
me
thank.
C
H
H
H
So
we've
been
doing
this
work
for
a
while
and
I'll
touch
on
just
some
other
reforms,
but
there
are
kind
of
other
things
that
we
have
been
working
on
and
that
we've
been
able
to
accomplish
so
just
some
context
about
san
francisco.
We
are
both
a
city
and
a
county,
so
that
does
give
us
a
little
bit
more
authority
over
some
of
the
fines
and
fees
that
we're
able
to
reform
and
and
work
on.
H
Our
population
is
just
under
900
000.,
and
so
when
we
got
started
in
2017,
we
brought
together
a
task
force
of
community
members.
Our
government
partners
really
just
to
hear
about
you
know
what
are
the
fine
and
fee
pain
points
that
people
were
experiencing,
and
so
that
is
really
where
we
kind
of
take
our
cues
and
decide
what
to
work
on.
H
So
in
terms
of
the
the
three
forms
I'll
go
into
a
little
bit
more
depth
on
the
first
is
towing
and
booting.
The
second
is
parking
tickets
and
the
third
is
quality
of
life
citations,
so
starting
with
towing
and
booting.
So
I
think
monica
said
at
the
beginning.
If
you
know
towing
is
extremely
expensive.
If
your
car
is
towed
in
san
francisco,
it
is
the
base.
Fine
is
about
550
from
there.
It
can
grow
to.
H
You
know
over
a
thousand
dollars
very
quickly,
because
there
are
all
these
storage
fees
and
all
these
other
things
that
kind
of
compound,
and
on
top
of
that
base
fine,
and
so,
as
monica
said,
you
know,
we
found
that
ten
percent
of
people
weren't
getting
their
cars
back
from
the
tow
lot
and
that's,
presumably
because
you
know
people
couldn't
afford
to
get
them
out
and
again.
You
know
getting
towed
can
be
just
devastating
for
people
who,
like
all
of
us,
need
our
cars
to
get
to
work.
H
So
we
started
working
on
this
problem
with
our
sf
municipal,
transit
authority
or
sfmpa
to
do
a
few
things,
so
we've
been
able
to
create
a
low
income
discount
for
towing
and
booting,
and
so
we've
used
200
of
the
federal
poverty
line
as
our
eligibility
criteria.
So
that's
about
twenty
seven
thousand
dollars
for
a
single
person
and
about
fifty
thousand
dollars
for
a
family
of
four
and
that
covers
about
twenty
five
percent
of
the
households
in
san
francisco
are
under
that
two
hundred
percent
of
the
poverty
line.
H
H
The
other
thing
that
we've
done
is
created
a
one
time,
a
year
waiver
on
toe
and
boot,
fines
for
people
who
are
experiencing
homelessness,
and
so
that
has
been,
you
know,
really
helpful
in
terms
of
people
actually
getting
to
keep
their
homes
and
a
lot
of
the
times.
You
know
if
someone
is
actually
living
in
their
vehicle.
All
of
their
belongings
are
are
in
that
car.
H
So
that
is,
you
know,
towing
and
booting.
We
still
continue
to
work
with
the
sfmta
on
on
all
sorts
of
things
related
to
towing
and
booting.
We
hear
frequently
from
people
that
you
know
even
with
the
low
income
discount
they're
not
able
to
to
get
their
cars
back.
So
it's
still
an
area
that
we
continue
to
work
in.
H
The
second
reform.
I'll
talk
about
is
around
parking
tickets
and
kind
of
similar
to
what
you
me
talked
about
with
the
payment
plans
we
have.
San
francisco
has
had
a
a
payment
plan
and
a
community
service
plan
for
a
really
long
time,
but
the
issue
with
it
was
that
it
was
a
to
get
onto
the
payment
plan.
It
was
a
62
enrollment
fee
and
then
for
the
community
service
plan.
H
So
you
know
you
can
imagine
that
someone
who
can't
pay
that
hundred
dollar
parking
ticket
probably
can't
pay
their
that
enrollment
fee,
so
we
were
able
again
to
work
with
our
mta
and
reduce
those
fees
significantly.
So
now
it's
a
five
dollar
enrollment
fee
for
the
payment
plan
and
no
fee
for
the
community
service
plan,
and
the
other
thing
that
we
did
was
lengthen
the
amount
of
time
that
someone
had
on
their
payment
plan.
H
The
other
thing
about
the
payment
plan
is
that,
if
someone
you
know
enrolls
and
successfully
completes
it,
they
can
have
all
of
their
late
fees
waived,
and
so
those
late
fees
can
actually
double
the
the
price
of
the
ticket.
So
that
has
also
been
been
helpful
and
then
the
third
one
I'll
talk
about
a
little
bit
more
in
depth
is
around
quality
of
life
salutations.
H
So
these
are
things
for
offenses,
like
sleeping
or
camping,
where
it's
prohibited,
blocking
a
sidewalk
loitering
most
of
those
tickets
in
california
start
at
two
hundred
dollars
and
they
can
grow
to
five
hundred
dollars.
When
someone
can't
pay-
and
you
know
before
we
started-
you
know
doing
this
work
police
were
giving
out
over
15
000
these
types
of
citations
a
year,
and
you
know
when
you
kind
of
think
about
who
receives
those
types
of
citations.
It
is
primarily
people
who
are
experiencing
homelessness.
H
So
it's
because
people
again
can't
pay
those
those
fines
and
in
particular
you
know,
we
heard
a
lot
from
community
that
those
citations
were
going
on
people's
records,
they're,
creating
barriers
for
people
to
get
jobs
to
get
into
housing.
So
again,
really
hitting
people
hard
just
harder
than
just
the
you
know
paying
the
fine
itself.
So
we
worked
with
our
district
attorney's
office
and
our
traffic
court,
which
is
where
all
those
citations
roll
up
and
created
something
called
the
connect
program.
H
So
this
allows
people
who
are
experiencing
hopelessness
to
connect
to
and
receive
20
hours
of
social
service
and
then
have
all
of
those
quality
of
life
citations
waived.
So
it's
one
way
to
try
to
engage
people
a
little
bit
in
services
and
you
know
be
able
to
help
them
clear
their
their
citations,
and
we
also
you
know,
design
that
program
and
what
a
service
is
to
be
pretty
flexible.
H
H
We
are
starting
to
work
on
restitution
like
king,
county
and
seattle
and
then
just
like
a
few
other
things
outside
the
criminal
legal
system.
We've
eliminated
overdue
library,
fines
because
we've
heard
that
people.
You
know
people
at
a
certain
point.
You
know
can't
access
the
library
anymore
after
they've
accumulated
a
certain
amount
and
overdue
fines,
and
so
once
we
got
rid
of
that
people,
lo
and
behold
came
back
to
the
library
and
could
access
really
great
resources
there.
H
And
then
we
also
have
a
program
called
sf
museums
for
all
which
allows
people
who
receive
public
benefits
to
go
to
a
museum
in
san
francisco
for
free.
So
when
you
think
about
kind
of
what
it
costs
to
take
a
family
of
four,
for
example,
to
a
museum,
it
could
be.
You
know,
over
a
hundred
dollars
in
terms
of
those
admission
prices,
yeah
happy
I'll.
Stop
there
and
yeah
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
I
think
monica
also
shared
kind
of
our
website
and
some
of
the
reports
that
we've
produced
as
well.
D
Thank
you,
michelle
does
anybody
have
any
questions
for
michelle?
I,
and
I
will
also
say
briefly,
that
in
the
city
of
santa
fe,
we
do
have
control
for
for
the
municipal
court,
there
are
particular
administrative
fees
that
are
controlled
by
the
city
in
the
form
of
conviction
fees,
some
of
the
other
types
of
probation
fees,
those
sorts
of
things.
A
wonderful
thing
is
that
we
don't
have.
There
is
no
cost
to
enter
into
a
payment
plan
or
in
order
to
do
community
service.
D
However,
the
length
of
time
that
you
have
in
order
to
pay
something
off
is
fixed
and
fees
are
not
conviction,
fees
in
particular.
You
cannot
waive
so
judges
are
not
able
to
waive
those
which
means
that
you
cannot
reduce
one
based
on.
You
cannot
reduce
fees
based
on
somebody's
ability
to
pay
by
statute
for
conviction
fees
in
particular.
That's
that's
really
run
by
the
state,
but
actually
eliminating
some
city
fees
is
a
possibility.
D
K
Mine's
more
of
a
comment
is
I
you
know.
I
know
we've
seen
each
other
before
and
I've
heard
about
the
things
you
were
doing
before,
but
really
everything
I
do
in
allegheny
county
is
just
copying
the
work
you're
doing
in
san
francisco.
So
please
keep
it
up
because
it
gives
me
ideas
every
time.
So
thank
you.
Yeah
same.
F
H
D
And
one
thing
too,
that's
interesting
about
this
discussion.
Much
like
traffic
here
in
new
mexico
right
is
the
is
the
sort
of
the
difference
between
decriminalization
and
legalization
right.
So
because
we
can
decriminalize
something
which
I
think
is
important
extremely
important,
because
then
you
can
no
longer
issue
bench
warrants
which,
which
is
what
we
do
here.
Then
we
can
issue
a
bench
warrant.
Somebody
can
be
incarcerated
for
something
like
that.
I
guess-
and
I
guess
my
follow-up
question
is,
that
is:
has
quality
of
life,
these
quality
of
life
citations?
D
H
Yeah
so
san
francisco,
it
kind
of
ends
up
in
our
traffic
court
system,
so
it's
kind
of
outside
the
the
criminal
process.
We
in
san
francisco
do
not
issue
bench
warrants
so
that
that
doesn't
happen.
If
someone
kind
of
doesn't
complete
this
but
yeah,
I
think
that's
a
great
question,
like
you
know
what
happens
to
that
person.
If
you
know
those
fees
or
that
fine
is
not
paid
off,
I
think
it
it
stays
kind
of
with
them
until
they're
able
to
to
pay
it
off
right.
So
we
do.
E
D
There's
other
avenues
to
try
and
collect
those
funds
through
the
civil
process
right
just
like
any
other
debt.
Yes,
that's
that's
the
way.
We
should
go
right
just
like
any
other
debt.
We
don't
need
to
criminalize
people
for
not
being
able
to
pay
for
anything
right.
That's
sort
of
like
the
baseline
of
this
work
is
that.
Why
do
we
essentially
incarcerate
people
because
they
can't
pay
sorry?
C
Thank
you
michelle
for
just
the
exciting
things
that
you
all
are
doing
in
san
francisco
and
that's
a
challenging
place
in
general.
I
feel
like
just
to
try
to
make
a
living
so
making
these
what
seems
like
no-brainer
changes.
I
really
appreciate
that
you're,
a
part
of
that
I'm
curious
about
the
connect
program
and
we
actually
have
a
connect
program
as
well.
C
It's
in
a
different
context,
but
it
is
helping
folks
to
kind
of
navigate
some
social
services
and
ways
that
they
can
get
support
for
whether
it's
housing
or
it's
kind
of
full
gamut.
It's
not
connected
to
our
court
system
or
anything
like
that,
but
I
guess
I
was
curious
too
about
how
a
person
who
who
checks
like
that
they
fulfill
the
20
hours
like
how
does
that,
because
every
time
I
think
about
government
structures,
it's
so
bureaucratic.
So
I'm
like
how
does
someone
make
sure
or
are
following
like?
C
H
Yeah,
so
in
in
the
connect
program,
the
da's
office
has
developed
this
kind
of
list
of
approved
social
service
providers.
So
it's
it's
pretty
broad.
I
think
they're,
like
20
or
so
different
organizations
and
the
service
providers
are
the
ones
who
are
keeping
track
of
the
hours
and
then
removing
that
back
to
the
da's
office.
C
Okay,
so
service
providers
send
a
person
in
the
dea's
office,
it's
probably
assigned
to
this
program,
and
then
they
just
let
them
know
if
they're
fulfilling
their
hours.
Okay
and
then
the
other
thing
I
didn't
catch
the
percentage.
You
said
that
for
those
quality
quality
of
life
citations
that
initially
san
francisco,
what
was
the
percentage
that
weren't
being
paid?
I'm
90.
wow.
Okay,
thank
you.
C
D
You
we
are
finally
with
allegheny
county.
Am
I
saying
that
right?
So
we
have
two
folks
from
allegheny
county,
and
I
you
know
I'm
gonna,
let
you
all
share
the
stage
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
you've
been
able
to
do
in
pittsburgh.
Do
you
guys
not
like
it
when
people
refer
to
it
as
pittsburgh?
Is
that
is
that.
K
D
D
K
K
Okay,
I
disagree,
but
okay,
I
will
go
with
that.
So
hello,
everyone,
my
name
is
bethany
hallam.
As
I
said,
I'm
from
coming
to
you
live
from
beautiful
pittsburgh.
So
pittsburgh
is
our
city
center
in
allegheny
county.
I
am
the
at-large
council
member
for
allegheny
county.
So
I
am
one
of
two
allegheny
county
council
members
that
represents
all
1.2
million
people
in
allegheny
county.
So
people
always
think
pittsburgh,
I'm
very
pittsburgh,
but
really
pittsburgh
has
a
population
about
300
000
out
of
our
1.2
million.
K
So
it's
really
most
of
the
most
of
my
jurisdiction
is
outside
of
the
city
of
pittsburgh.
So
I
mean
I
am
watching
that
timer,
because
I
could
talk
about
this
stuff
for
five
hours,
but
I
won't
do
that
to
nan.
So,
in
addition
to
be
a
council
member,
you
know
a
lot
of
the
work
that
we
do
is
rooted
in
my
past.
I
am
a
formerly
incarcerated
person.
I
did
multiple
stints
in
our
county.
Jail
and
life
has
come
full
circle.
K
K
Hence
why
I
just
finished
my
first
year
of
law
school,
but
we
are
doing
a
lot
of
work
to
not
just
keep
people
out
of
jail,
but
then
to
also
try
to
make
it
a
little
less
horrible
when
you're
in
there
you're
never
gonna
make
jail
a
great
place
to
go
and
it
always
breaks
my
heart.
I
think
it
was
umi
who
was
talking
about
people
who
take
the
jail
time
over
the
fines
and
fees.
You
know
people
do
that
here
too.
K
It's
because
they
can't
so
I'll
talk
about
some
of
the
reforms
we've
been
able
to
achieve,
because
I
am
so
excited
about
it,
and
I
think
it's
important
to
start
off
by
noting
that
when
people
think
of
allegheny
county,
they
think
pittsburgh
and
they
think
this
is
like
some
progressive
utopia
of
like
great
awesome
things
that
we're
able
to
do
all
the
time
and
the
reality
is
you
know
most
of
my.
I
don't
want
to
say
most
a
fair
split
of
allegheny
county
is
conservative
right.
K
It's
you
have
to
look
at
it
as
a
whole
picture,
because
a
lot
of
the
work
I
do
isn't
just
like
hey
here's,
this
great
idea,
because
I
already
told
you
I
take
those
all
from
michelle,
but
really
it's
about.
How
do
I
convince
people
who
maybe
don't
care
about
the
humanity
of
assessing
unnecessary
fines
and
fees?
Who
probably
don't
care
about
the
people
in
the
jail?
I've
heard
them
talk
about
it.
K
They
don't
you
know,
but
talking
about
this
in
a
way
that
makes
sense
to
everyone
and
not
just
abolitionists
and
not
just
folks.
You
know
who
are
working
in,
and
you
know
criminal,
defense
or
other
areas
of
the
criminal
legal
system,
keeping
people
out
of
it.
There's
a
way
to
talk
to
it.
That
gets
even
the
most
conservative
I
mean.
K
I
even
have
you
know,
law
enforcement
officers,
who
are
very
big
proponents
of
these
things
that
we've
done
and
I'll
tell
you
what
so
the
the
you
know,
one
of
the
first
reforms
we
did,
and
this
was
early
on
in
my
tenure.
I
was
on
council
for
two
months
when
coveted
hit,
and
so
you
know
all
of
these
grand
ideas
that
I've
had
my
whole
life
to
implement
it
was
it
really
turned
into
listen?
K
So
we
have
what's
called
an
incarcerated
individual's
welfare
fund
and
if
you
have
never
heard
of
that,
you
should
check
and
see
if
your
jurisdiction
has
it,
because
most
either
counties
or
states
across
the
united
states
have
some
variation
of
what
used
to
be
called
an
inmate
welfare
fund.
So
we
have
this
fund.
It
used
to
be
funded
by
the
profits
made
off
of
commissary
purchases
and
jail
phone
calls
over
the
years
it
has.
They
took
out
the
jail
phone
call
profits
because
you
know
they
wanted
to
put
those
in
their
pockets
themselves.
K
Our
county
makes
a
69
commission
on
jail
phone
calls,
so
they
could
make
the
cost
69
cheaper
tomorrow
if
we
just
eliminated
the
profits
right.
In
addition
to
that,
the
commissary
account
that
is
still
in
there,
so
the
profits
made
off
of
commissary
still
goes
in
this
incarcerated
individual's
welfare
fund.
So
when
I
came
onto
council,
it
was
hovering
around
three
million
dollars
and
it
was
just
going
up
and
they
were
using
it
to
spend
it
on.
You
know
chris
christmas
gifts
of
shampoo
and
soap.
K
You
know
various
things
that
we
have
argued
very
services
in
the
jail
should
be
covered
by
the
county
budget
and
not
profits
made
off
commissary,
but
what
we
decided
to
do
is
about
a
month
after
covet
hit,
so
this
was
april.
Maybe
our
may
jail
oversight
board
meeting.
I
introduced
a
motion
to
put
fifty
dollars
on
the
commissary
accounts
of
each
and
every
person
in
the
jail
and
fifty
dollars
on
the
tablet
accounts
of
each
and
every
person
in
the
jail.
K
Our
population
hovers
around
600
folks
in
the
jail
at
any
given
time,
and
so
you
know,
while
our
goal
is
to
do
you
know
what
they're
doing
out
in
san
francisco
and
eliminate
the
cost
for
phone
calls
provide
free
phone
calls.
We
also
have
tablets
we're
just
another
layer
of
the
racket
that
are
jails
and
prisons.
We
have
tablets
where
you
can
facetime
home
text
home,
but
costs
a
ton
of
money
to
do
so.
So
we
put
fifty
dollars
on
the
commissary
account
and
fifty
dollars
on
the
phone.
K
Slash
tablet
accounts
every
single
month
and
so
then,
over
time
we've
now
condensed
it
they
made
those
accounts.
The
same
thing,
so
we
give
a
hundred
dollars
a
month
same
amount
of
money,
but
you
can
decide
if
you
have
no
one
to
call.
You
can
use
it
all
in
commissary.
If
you
have
no,
you
don't
want
to
eat.
Commissary
talk
to
your
family,
see
your
kids
a
little
more
on
the
face
time
right.
K
So
that
is
something
that
I
am
most
proud
of
and
it's
so
wild
because
they
haven't
yet
realized
like
what
we're
doing
right,
we're
taking
the
money
that
we
make
off
of
incarcerated
people
that
we
should
never
be
making
off
them
in
the
first
place
and
we're
putting
it
right
back
into
their
pockets
because
remember
it
is
not
the
people
who
are
incarcerated,
who
are
harmed
when
they
need
money
on
their
books,
it's
their
family
at
home.
These
were
folks
who
just
lost
their
jobs
through
the
covid.
Kids
were
home
from
school.
K
You
know
everything
was
blowing
up
in
their
faces,
folks
were
getting
evicted,
left
and
right
being
forced
to
sell
their
cars
or
move
out
of
their
homes.
The
last
thing
that
they
should
have
had
to
worry
about
was
to
take
care
of
their
loved
one
on
the
inside,
and
so
we
wanted
to
take
that
burden,
not
just
off
the
incarcerated
individuals,
because
even
our
our
workers,
we
have
incarcerated
workers,
they
make
zero
dollars
an
hour.
You
might
hear
like
13
cents,
25
cents,
30
cents
and
think
that's
ridiculous
in
our
county
jail.
K
They
make
zero
sense,
and
so
every
single
penny
was
coming
from
the
outside.
So
that's
the
thing
I
I'm
really
most
proud
of,
because
it
has
happened
every
single
month
since
may
2020.
We
have
given
out
this
money
and
guess
what
there
is
still
three
million
dollars
in
that
fund.
Somehow,
because
that's
how
much
of
a
rack
it
is,
you
know
I
I
always
try
to
talk
about
how
people
talk
about
private
jails
and
private
prisons.
K
What
they
mean
is
for-profit
jails
and
for-profit
prisons.
Every
single
jail
in
prison
is
a
for-profit
jail
or
prison
because
the
county,
the
state,
the
commonwealth,
the
city
whatever
it
is,
is
making
money
off
of
the
people
on
the
inside
whether
it's
the
things
that
we've
talked
about
today,
that
all
cost
a
lot
of
money
or
the
commissary
phone
calls,
and
all
of
that.
K
So
we
decided
we'll
just
go
in
and
and
ask
ourselves
what
it
is
that
they
need
and
overwhelmingly
when
I
come
up
to
this
outdoor
or
I'm
sitting
down
at
a
table
with
them,
while
they're
eating
a
meal-
and
I
say
you
know
what
can
I
help
you
with
they're
like
well?
Can
you
introduce
us
to
that
girl?
That's
been
giving
us
100
bucks
a
month
and
I'm
like
guess
what
that's
us,
like
we've
been
doing
that
and
so
for
them
to
be
able
to
see
people
who
were
fighting
for
them.
K
You
know
I
spent
I
spent
some
time
in
jail.
I've
been
in
jail
multiple
times.
The
longest
time
was
for
about
six
months,
but
I've
spent
many
two
three
four
nights
since
in
jail,
and
the
worst
thing
is
feeling
so
alone.
You
know
when
you're
trying
to
pick
up
that
phone
and
no
one's
answering
when
mail
is
called,
and
nobody
sent
you
a
letter
when
it's
visiting
time
and
people
promised
you
they'd
be
there
and
they
wouldn't
you
know,
that's
the
worst
feeling
in
the
world.
K
So
more
than
anything,
we
had
to
show
these
folks
that
we're
fighting
for
you
we
care
about
you.
You
can
come
to
us
because,
unlike
I
think
it
was
katie
who
talked
earlier
about
their
cooperative
executive,
I
mean
we
just
don't
have
that
here
right
and
so
it's
a
bigger
fight-
and
I
don't
know
what
your
situation
is.
What
kind
of
you
know
makeup
of
your
legislative
bodies
you're
working
with,
but
it's
a
lot
easier
when
you
have
an
executive
who's?
Just
like
oh
yeah,
that's
a
good
idea.
K
You
don't
need
to
vote
on
that
I'll
just
do
it,
and
so
we
don't
have
that
here.
So
everything
is
an
uphill
battle,
but
there's
nine
people
on
the
jail
oversight
board.
So
I
only
need
five
votes
there
and
there's
15
members
of
county
council
and
I
need
eight.
So
you
know
that's
the
way
that
we've
been
doing
things
the
you
know
as
part
of
the
cohort.
K
We
you
know
got
to
talk
to
so
many
folks
from
so
many
different
jurisdictions
and
and
we're
trying
to
figure
out
the
way
to
address
our
fines
and
fees
and
justices
here
in
allegheny
county,
and
so
you
know,
brad's
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
audit
that
was
done
to
find
out
about
how
much
do
we
collect?
How
much
do
we
spend
collecting,
but
I
just
want
to
talk
about
like
what
we
did
to
kind
of
try
to
resolve
this.
K
D
K
Our
magistrates
are
actually
under
the
jurisdiction
of
the
state,
even
though
they're
like
our
local
magistrates
and
but
again,
we
elect
them
all,
so
they
work
with
us,
and
so
we
got
a
group
of
magistrates
together
and
they
said:
hey
we're
in
we
kind
of
sold
them
on
this
idea
of.
We
want
to
have
fines
and
fees.
K
Forgiveness,
clinics,
so
you
know,
ours
are
district,
magisterial,
district
judges
and
our
president
judge
of
our
you
know,
court
of
common
pleas
gave
unilateral
authority
to
the
first
one,
the
pilot,
one,
that
anybody
who
came
into
his
courtroom
on
this
given
day
or
time.
This
judge
could
wipe
out
any
fines
and
fees
and
convert
them
to
community
service,
not
just
in
his
jurisdiction
of
his
district,
but
anyone
in
the
whole
county
could
come
down.
K
And
again,
all
that
took
was
one
magistrate
and
one
judge,
and
we
were
able
to
change
the
lives
of
anybody
who
showed
up
since
then,
because
it
was
so
successful.
We're
now
piloting
that
with
other
magisterial
district
judges.
I
literally
have
a
lunch
meeting
tomorrow
with
three
of
them
and
it
was
such
an
easy
fix.
It's
just.
Nobody
gave
them
the
opportunity
to
do
it,
so
that's
that's
the
first
thing
we're
doing.
The
second
thing
is
that
we
are
working
because
we
have
a
unique
clause
in
our.
K
We
are
a
second
class
county
in
pennsylvania,
and
so
there
is
a
second-class
county
code
that
actually
allows
our
clerk
of
courts
unilateral
authority
to
wipe
out
local
fees
that
are
assessed
by
the
courts,
which
I
don't
need
to
tell
anyone.
This
call
right,
you
get
a
ticket,
it
says
it's
25
bucks
and
then
magically.
It
turns
up
to
400
by
the
end
of
the
edition
on
the
ticket,
and
so
all
of
that
other
stuff
can
be
wiped
out
by
one
single
person
who
is
appointed
by
our
county
executive.
K
When
I
hear
other
folks
talking
about
it
today,
that
was
such
a
battle,
so
our
charter
actually
prohibits
any
council
member
from
talking
to
any
directors
of
departments
and
with
an
I
know,
don't
get
me
started
on
it,
but
it
really
is
a
burden
because,
as
you
all
talked
about
like
community,
we
have
community
members
involved,
we
wanted
county
community,
we
wanted.
You
know
the
district
attorney
to
be
on
board
the
public
defender.
We
wanted
everyone
to
be
like
yeah.
We
have
to
do
something
about
this
injustice,
and
so
we
realized
that
hey.
K
K
You
know
the
foundation
community,
basically
anybody
that
has
money
that
wants
to
help
the
community
they
live
in.
We
will
work
with
you
because
there's
a
lot
more
than
fifty
000
worth
of
juvenile
restitution,
just
in
our
county
and,
as
I
think,
was
alluded
to
earlier,
when
it
when
these
kids
turn
21
any
restitution
that
they
have
against
them
is
converted
to
a
civil
judgment.
K
So
now
they're
going
to
get
apartments
and
they're
getting
denied
they're
going
to
get
car
loans
and
mortgages
they're
getting
denied,
sometimes
they're,
going
to
get
jobs
and
they're
getting
denied
because
they
broke
a
car
window
when
they
were
12
years
old
and
could
never
afford
to
pay
for
it,
and
the
parents
shouldn't
have
to
pay
for
it
because
they
didn't
do
it.
So
what
is
the
solution
here?
There
shouldn't
be
restitution
for
children,
but
we
have
victims
who
have
damages,
so
the
solution
was
we're.
Just
gonna
pay
it
right.
K
These
are
kids
who
have
been
working
so
hard
to
make
this
go
away,
but
are
never
going
to
be
able
to
do
it,
because
every
single
step
they
take
in
life
is
being
held
back
from
this
thing.
That
happened
5
10
20
30
years
ago,
and
so
we
are
paying
50
000
worth
of
restitution
off
for
juveniles,
and
we
have
some
partners
who
are
cooperative
with
potential
matching
funds
at
a
later
date.
K
Once
we
show
the
proof
of
concept
so
we're,
including
them
all
in
this
work
from
the
beginning,
because
they've
been
working
with
us
on
these
fines
and
fees,
forgiveness,
clinics
getting
the
word
out
finding
folks
to
send
our
way
for
them,
and
it
really
takes
a
collaborative
effort.
But,
like
I
want
to
stress
that,
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
has
been
missing
from
this
conversation
today
is
man
is
it
hard
right
is,
is
if
you
have
a
cooperative
government,
you
have
cooperative,
exact
executive.
K
You
have
a
cooperative
bureaucracy
which
I
feel
like
sounds
like
an
oxymoron,
but
if
you
have
that
sure
you
know
these
these,
these
changes,
these
these
reforms
are
gonna,
be
a
heck
of
a
lot
easier
for
you
to
implement,
but
I'm
just
gonna
assume
that
everyone's
isn't
that
easy,
because
mine
is
hell
sometimes
and
and
it
is
a
battle
and
so
to
me
it's
a
lot
about
messaging
right
is
it's
like
hey.
You
might
be
one
of
those
people
who
could
care
less
about
somebody
in
the
jail.
You
might
be.
K
One
of
those
people
that
thinks
everybody
that
comes
into
a
courtroom
is
a
criminal
right.
But
what
do
you
think
about
the
victims?
Because
there
are
victims
of
these
crimes
who
should
have
their
damages
rectified,
but
should
we
really
expect
a
10
year
old
to
pay
for
that?
Should
we
really
expect
somebody
to
be
punished
for
40
years,
because
they
could
never
afford
to
pay
a
thousand
dollars?
My
cousin
was
just
sent
back
upstate.
K
M
Our
accounts
receivable
in
allegheny
county
over
400
million
dollars-
that's
400
million
everyone
that
I
encountered
was
surprise.
I
don't
think
anyone
had
ever
really
put
it
together.
That
number
goes
back
so
far
that
no
one
can
tell
you
when
it
first
began
to
be
an
account
receivable.
It
has
just
been
carried
over
from
the
time
we
kept
paper
ledgers
in
the
treasurer's
office.
M
Most
of
that
amount
by
far
is
fees
and
the
average
amount
the
average
number
of
fees
for
any
criminal
offense
in
allegheny
county
is
approximately
12
total.
Some
have
more,
some
have
less.
None
has
less
than
five.
So,
for
instance,
if
you
have
a
dui
and
you
run
into
some
municipal
property
and
it
doesn't
involve
a
personal
injury
you're
going
to
have
fees
that
are
paid
into
17
different
pots,
whether
that
pot
belongs
to
the
state
or
the
county
or
the
court
system.
M
M
M
M
So
it's
it's
a
small
benefit
to
the
individual
service.
But
again
it
is.
It
is
quite
a
burden
and
we've
heard
that
from
community
members-
and
I
hear
it
everywhere
to
the
individual-
and
you
know,
as
I
sped
up
here
to
our
hotel
in
lake
erie
and
pushing
the
gas
down
had
I
got
a
speeding
ticket.
It
would
have
been
a
bad
day
for
me,
and
my
wife
would
have
gotten
angry
with
me.
But
a
bad
day
to
me
translates
into
a
financial
catastrophe
for
someone
else.
Who
then
has
to
make
the
decision?
M
How
do
I
pay
rent?
How
do
I
pay
daycare?
How
do
I
pay
food
and
that's
certainly
what
happens
in
allegheny
county?
So,
while
on
on
the
end
of
fines
and
fees
we
weren't
able
to
reform
anything,
we
did
present
a
a
pathway
to
some
solutions
and
we
made
a
document
that
has
indisputable
facts,
and
I
guess
the
one
thing
that
I
would
hope
would
come
of.
M
It
is
that
we
convince
the
judges
who
assess
fees,
because
it
is
primarily
fees
that
the
functioning
of
the
world
in
which
they
reside
does
not
depend
upon
them.
Clicking
the
box
that
says
fee
to
the
computer
infrastructure
fund
of
the
court
of
common,
please,
which
was
passed
in
1980
when
people
were
running
mainframes
that
took
up
a
whole
room
and
we
had
to
convince
people
to
pay
for
this
newfangled
gadget
called
a
computer.
M
M
D
It
then
that's
exactly
how
it
is
in
new
mexico,
though,
that
what
we
find
is
that
when
you
look
at
the
state
system,
the
way
that
fees
are
actually
collected
and
covid
was
an
interesting
experiment.
We
don't
have
all
the
data
that
we
need
for
this,
but
talking
to
the
administrators
of
these
conviction
fee
funds
here
because
of
fee
the
way
it
travels
through
all
these
different
hands
and
there's
payment
plans,
and
it's
a
very
slow
drip
process
that
you
describe
people.
D
We
still
had
all
of
these
services
and,
yes,
there
was
lots
of
other
problems
with
public
health,
but
as
far
as
the
things
that
the
fee
funds
fund
they
they
they
are
still
in
existence,
because
they're
not
only
reliant
on
this
particular
pot
of
money.
But
yet
you
are
so
correct.
What
it
does
to
people's
lives
is
tremendous
in
the
way
that
it
destroys
them.
D
D
I
think
it's
a
wonderful
what
you
guys
are
doing
and
and
the
way
that
you
set
that
up
bethany,
that
we
want
to
keep
people
out
of
jail,
but
if
they,
if
people
do
have
to
go
to
jail,
we
want
to
make
it
a
little
bit
less
miserable
and
the
way
that
the
burden
and
the
cost
who
it
really
falls
on
and
it
falls
on
families,
and
here
in
new
mexico,
it
primarily
falls
on
women,
women,
families.
These
are
mothers,
aunties,
grandmas,
right
and
yes,
kids.
D
Exactly
and
all
of
the
research
shows
that,
when
people
that
are
inside
have
contact
with
their
loved
ones,
they
feel
better.
They
do
better.
It
also
increases
safety
for
other
inmates
and
for
the
staff
at
the
jail
and
in
the
prisons
and
when
covet
hit,
they
completely
shut
off
in
person
communicate
in
person
visits.
In-Person
visits
are
free,
you
know
it's
not
free
or
phone
calls
or
tablets,
not
all
the
jails
here
in
new
mexico
have
tablets.
There
are
a
few
don't
get.
D
C
K
Yeah
I
mean
I,
I
don't
really.
My
knowledge
outside
of
pennsylvania
doesn't
isn't
as
expansive
I,
but
we
have
class
co
like
each
county.
Each
city
is
like
a
first
class
city,
first
class
county
second
class
city,
second
class
county
deans.
Have
that
like?
Do
you
have
any
way
to
say
like
this
is
a
different
county
than
this
county
within
new
mexico.
D
We
have
something
called
a
home
rule-
municipality,
yes,
so
meaning,
if
you
have
a
home
rule
municipality,
so
in
the
fines
and
fees
contest,
context
of
a
home
rule
can
have
their
own
fees,
their
own
conviction
fees.
Santa
fe
is
a
home
rule
municipality.
So
we
get
to
make
up
our
own
fees.
On
top
of
the
state
fees.
K
So
we
are
also
home
rule
in
allegheny
county,
but
that
is
separate
from
this.
This
is
I
mean
that
doesn't
say
that
in
our
homeworld
charter
that
that
this
specific
thing
it's
any
second
class
county.
We
just
happen
to
be
the
only
second
class
county
in
pennsylvania,
and
so
it
only
applies
to
our
county,
and
so
basically
there's
this
position
called
the
clerk
of
courts
and
what
did
it
used
to
be
called
brad
because
it
actually
used
to
be
called
something
else.
It
used
to.
K
And
the
clerk
of
courts
is
the
person
who
is
in
charge
of
that
department.
The
second
class
county
code
specifically
allows
that
person
to
have
this
jurisdiction.
It
is
wild
when
I
told
him
about
it.
He
didn't
even
know
about
it,
so
we
found
it
literally
just
by
trying
to
look
for
creative
solutions
to
addressing
fines
and
fees,
and
we
just
had
folks
like
digging
through
the
you
know,
state
statutes
and
county
codes
and
homeworld
charters
to
try
to
figure
out
like
what
what
unique
authorities
do.
K
We
have
that
we
don't
even
know
about
yet,
and
so
that's
where
we
discovered
that
our
second
class
counting
code.
So
I
guess
for
you,
if
you
don't
have
that
it
would
either
be
a
in
your
charter
in
your
homeworld
charter
or
be
a
new
mexico
statue.
That
would
say
there
is
this
person
that
exists
that
can
eliminate
all
fees.
D
E
K
C
K
C
K
He's
like
so
we
used
to
have
a
county
commissioner
structure.
We
had
three
executive
and
legislative
body
commissioners,
and
then
we
became
home
rule
in
2000
and
that's
when
we
went
from
a
three
commissioner
member
model
to
an
executive
and
then
a
15
member
legislative
body,
he
is
yeah,
he's
a
little
difficult,
but
also
he
has
very
very
much
authority
and
power
and
does
not
choose
to
use
it
for
good.
K
So
we
are
often
like
that's
who
we're
battling
with,
because
he
oversees
aside
from
the
row
offices,
which
is
you
know,
district
attorney
treasurer
controller-
is
that
it
disrespects
sheriff.
He
is
over
every
other
department.
You
know
department
of
human
services,
everything
the
entire
administration
is
everything
else
under
him
and
also,
I
should
point
out,
I'm
pretty
sure,
just
from
like
reading
that
your
sheriff
does
your
jail
stuff,
our
sheriff
is
completely
out
of
jail
stuff.
K
K
C
Thank
you,
bethany
and
and
brad.
I
really
appreciate
that
just
kind
of
the
insider
perspective
of
bureaucracy
and
I
think
in
the
future
there
there
may
be
a
way
to
kind
of
like
integrate
a
perspective
from
a
policy
maker
or
someone
on
the
financial
side,
because
there's
like
you
know,
I
think,
having
people
say
what
is
working
elsewhere,
would
help
some
of
my
colleagues
maybe
digest
things
easier
when
they
hear
that
it
works
in
other
places.
C
K
Just
add
on
to
that
renee
is
policy
wise.
There
are
two
things
that
we've
been
working
on
to
implement
the
the
first
is
eliminating
profits
made
off
of
people
in
the
jail,
so
we're
not
yet
at
free
phone
calls
or
you
know,
free
commissary,
but
they
have
to
give
it
at
cost
and
then
the
other
thing
is
that
we're
actually
even
closer
towards
is
paying
our
incarcerated
workers,
the
federal
minimum
wage.
So
we
are
saying:
okay,
you're
paying
them
nothing.
Other
places
are
paying
them
30
cents.
K
All
workers
are
workers,
we're
a
very
you
know:
blue
collar
union
county
here,
and
so
how
can
you
say
you
stand
up
for
workers
and
you're,
letting
folks
basically
do
slave
labor
inside
inside
our
jail
and
in
95
of
our
jail
are
not
serving
sentences.
These
are
pre-adjudication
folks,
so
they
are
in
here
either
for
like
the
detainers
violations
of
probation,
not
showing
up
for
hearing
something
like
that
or
can't
afford
their
bail.
K
D
Else,
one
thing
that
I
will
just
say
too
is
that
our
wonderful
folks
here
that
they
are
still
available
for
questions
I
can
bother
them
and
beg
them
to
come
and
speak
to
us
again
or
have
other
discussions
with
the
city.
As
michelle
and
bethany
said
about
michelle,
I
mean
the
things
that
san
francisco
are
doing.
They've
done
so
much
right,
so
michelle
I'm,
I'm
sure
could
spend
an
entire
hour
going
into
all
of
the
different
things
that
they've
done
and
more
in
depth.
E
D
Well,
thank
you.
I
did
not
do
it
alone
and
thank
god
that
they
all
didn't
mind
me.
Bothering
them,
and
also
one
of
my
colleagues
was
on
here.
For
a
moment,
her
name
was
joni
hirsch.
She
had
to
jump
off.
I
was
hoping
that
she
would
stay
till
the
end,
but
hopefully
I'll
invite
her
back.
She.
She
was
amazing
in
helping
assisting
get
all
of
these
folks
together,
because
she
works
on
the
cities
and
counties
project
which
I
will
talk
about
more
in
the
future.
K
C
I
K
You
want
to,
you
know,
send
our
contact
info
along.
We
would
love
to
talk
to
anyone.
I've
made
a
lot
of
really
good
connections
of
other
other
jurisdictions
who
are
working
on
this
stuff.
And
again
I
will
say
you
know,
for
the
probably
10th
time
most
of
the
ideas
that
I
introduce
as
a
legislator
are
not
my
ideas.
I
mean
I
never
claim
they
are
it's
from
listening
to
folks
in
the
community
and
it's
from
talking
to
folks
who
are
doing
the
work
already.
K
That
is
the
best
way
because
you
don't
have
to
reinvent
the
wheel.
I
literally
sometimes
will
take
legislation
from
another
jurisdiction.
Have
my
clerk
change
it
to
be
applicable
to
allegheny
county
and
just
introduce
it
because
it's
like
hey,
they
did
all
this
work.
They
did
all
this
research,
it
works.
I
changed
some,
whereas
clauses
to
be
applicable
to
us-
and
you
know
we
have
this
bill.
So
really.
K
D
Awesome-
and
one
thing
I
want
to
lift
up-
is
that
it's
possible
that
santa
fe
could
be
the
next
could
be
part
of
the
next
cohort
of
cities
and
counties.
I
want
to
lift
up
some
of
the
amazing
work
of
our
councilwoman.
That's
here
with
us,
she's
sponsoring
a
bill
to
or
well
like.
It's
still
a
bill
right
right.
D
It's
still
a
bill
or
an
ordinance
to
end
failure
to
pay
so
debt
based
driver's
license
suspensions
with
two
other
city
councils
council
members
here
in
santa
fe,
so
we're
hoping
to
get
that
done
and
then
there's
always
the
possibility.
We
could
apply
and
then
be
part
of
this
broader
cohort
of
folks.
If.
K
That's
what
you're
doing
since
we
have
two
minutes
left.
Can
I
just
tell
you
what
we
found
out
that
we
can
do
here,
real
quick
about
that,
because
you're
talking
to
somebody
who
just
got
her
license
back
after
a
10-year
suspension
six
years
into
my
recovery-
and
I
I
just
got
my
license
back
what
last
year
after
10
years
and
I
won't
even
get
to
how
horrible
that
is,
because
you
already
know,
because
you're
doing
a
bill,
but
one
of
the
things
that
our
county
does.
K
Is
that
let's
say
you,
the
one
thing
that
is
holding
you
back
from
getting
your
license
back
is
not
an
assessment.
You
know
not
a
time
suspension,
but
as
instead
you
can't
pay
this
undue
balance
right.
I'm
dealing
with
it
right
now
with
my
brother-in-law,
but
is
if
you
pay
consistently
for
six
months
and
you
you
motion
the
court
for
what
you
want
that
that
payment
to
be
my
brother-in-law.
He
has
two
separate
cases,
so
he
has
to
pay
25
on
each
case
every
month.
K
But
as
long
as
you
continue
paying
that
after
the
first
six
months,
you
get
your
license
back
and
it's
not
a
conditional
license,
it's
just
a
license
and
then,
if
you
do
mess
up
and
miss
a
payment,
you
know
you
go
right
back
to
losing
it
until
you
have
the
money
again,
but
so
many
people
just
needed
that
opportunity
because
they
were
making
payments
that
never
happened.
So
I
just
want
to
say,
like
think
about
something
like
that
too.
If
you
know
on
your
way,
but
that's
amazing
that
is
so
so
so
cool.
D
D
K
C
C
Obviously
there
was
more
discussion
and
panelists,
and
actually
people
that
had
experienced
incarceration
and
telling
their
story
about
how
certain
things
prevented
them
from
like
living
their
lives,
because
they
were
just
kept
in
this
like
circle
or
cycle
of
like
poverty,
trying
to
pay
off
things
that
just
kept
accumulating
so
anyway,
there
was
just
so
much
so
much
depth
and
breath.
Thank
you
so
much.
I
know
it's
right
at
time.
I
think
there
was
something
do
bruce.
You
have
a
question.
L
Yes,
real
quick,
I
don't
know
if
I've
mentioned
this
before,
but
I
don't
know
if
omi
from
chicago,
if
that's
still
in
the
fact
that
in
chicago
they
had
a
community
service
program
where,
instead
of
jail
or
a
fine,
you
were
asked
to
go
clean
up
the
trash
along
the
roads,
and
I
don't
know
if
that
would
work
here.
Is
that
something
we
should
look
at
or
maybe
talk
to
her
again
about
it,
because
I
don't
know
if
they
still
do
it.
L
D
L
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
We
had
communications
from
co-chairs.
The
only
thing
I
wanted
to
say
well,
there's
two
things,
but
one
is
that
the
contract
for
the
community
engagement
with
unm.
It
went
back
to
us
attorneys
and
they
made
whatever
changes,
and
now
it's
back
at
unm,
it's
taking
forever
like
this
back
and
forth.
I
don't
even
know
what
changes
are
being
made
or
why
it
takes
the
way
it
does.
But,
but
you
know,
dr
sanchez
warned
us
that
it
takes
long
on
his
end
and
then
well.
C
We
know
it
the
kind
of
bureaucracy
on
our
end
to
be
able
to
get
that
contract
in
place.
So
hopefully,
by
the
next
time
we
meet
there's
something
that
we'll
have
something
in
place
so
that
we
can
start
combining
efforts
to
get
that
organized
and
then
the
other
thing
I
wanted
to
say
is
that
we
have
a
quarterly
report
due
for
our
next
presentation
to
the
learning
body
and
valeria.
C
I
just
need
to
double
check
because
they're
already
formulating
the
agenda
for
next
week
and
they
may
already
have
too
many
presentations,
but
I
all
found
I
will
find
out
tomorrow
and
but
the
thing
is
we
still
need
to
prepare
for
that
presentation.
So
if
it
happens
next
week
which
it's
not
ideal,
we've
been
all
crunched
for
time
I
feel
like,
but
we
do.
It
would
be
helpful
to
get
and
give
an
update
at
the
end
of
this
month,
since
this
is
the
end
of
the
quarter
if
it
goes
into
july.
C
It's
okay,
but
I
just
need
to
double
check
with
the
the
city
clerk
who
puts
the
agenda
together
and
is
informed
by
the
mayor
and
other
folks,
and
we've
been
having
a
lot
of
presentations
lately,
mostly
because
we
have
to
get
a
we.
We
have
our
regular
audit
update
because
of
our
situation
with
audit.
That
seems
to
take
time
and
then
there's
other
presentations.
So
I
will
double
check
and
valeria.
C
Let
you
know
in
the
meantime,
valeria
sent
you
an
email
about
any
ways
that
working
groups
could
update
that
document,
and
I
think-
and
here
we
are
seeing
looking
at
it.
I
think
there's
just
ways
that
we
need
to
just
populate
it.
I'm
willing
to
like
take
a
first
stab
at
putting
our
working
group
info
in
there,
but
I
I
don't
know
valeria.
Is
there
something
that
have
you
seen
any
additions
lately
from
other
working
groups.
A
Nothing
I
mean
I'm
gonna
be
combing
through
our
meeting
notes,
because
I
highlight
things
that
I
think
are
gonna
be
relevant
to
reporting
like,
for
instance,
like
asking
emily
for
that
slide
deck
of
that
great
presentation.
You
gave
emily
because
there
was
a
lot
of
key
points
here
that
you've
all
highlighted
as
things
that
you
want
to
make
recommendations
on,
but
I
also
don't
want
to
just
populate
that
and
put
words
in
your
mouth.
You
know
because
it
has
to
come
from
all
of
you,
so
so
I
sent
this
link.
F
F
And
that
you
should
have
all
of
those
resources
that
I
sent
them
out
with
the
slide
deck
and
everything.
What
might
be
helpful?
I
was
just
thinking
when
I
went
in
there
is
that,
since
we
have
the
work
plan
that
we
developed,
we
had
those
priorities
already
laid
out.
So
it
might
be
helpful
if
you
could
just
put
those
priority
or
the
priorities
in
that
document,
and
then
we
can
go
and
populate
for
each
one,
because
I
think
we
already
had
those
laid.
A
Out
for
the
year,
yes,
and
that's
great,
absolutely
and
actually
for
the
report,
I've
already
populated
the
priorities
for
the
next
quarter
out
of
the
work
plan,
but
we're
reporting
on
sec
on
the
second
quarter.
But,
yes,
I
can
put
that
link
to
the
work
plan
as
well,
so
that
you
have
a
quick
frame
of
reference.
Does.
C
A
A
Yeah
everybody's
has
editing
power
here,
nice,
okay,
yeah
everybody's
got
editing
power
so
so
yeah
and
I've
already
started.
You
know
much
like
last
time
putting
together
the
slide
deck.
So
it's
more
like
getting
the
content
from
you
and
start
formulating
that,
so
that
renee
and
chris
can
review
it
before
it
goes
out.
Go
ahead.
Gino.
G
A
J
A
C
A
Exactly-
and
I
I
think
I
emailed
monica
and
emily
today,
because
I
think
the
reimagining
traffic
is
coordinated
by
one
of
you,
but
I
know
that
sophie
had
either
proposed
or
renee.
You
may
have
asked
her
to
present
on
community
violence
so
trying
to
see
if
reimagining
traffic
is
set
to
go
for
july,
so
that
I
can
find
some
other
time
for
sophie.
D
Thank
you
annie
thanks,
annie,
I
think
and
emily
I
don't
know
how
you
feel
about
it,
but
if
you
guys
have
something
planned
and
if
she
can
speak
on
that
day,
that
seems
good
to
keep
her.
Since
you
have
somebody
committed,
because
I
think
yeah
I
I'm
not
sure
if
we
folks
committed
for
that
particular
day
and
I
understand
that's
challenging
getting
people
to
come
and
for
a
particular
date
to
come
and
speak.
F
C
Well,
I
have
another
idea,
but
you
can
tell
me
if
it's
bad
for
you
july
july
5th
is
actually
our
next
scheduled
meeting
it's
the
day
after
a
holiday
the
day
after
my
birthday
the
day
that
brought
another
conflict
that
chris
and
I
have
when
whenever
we
have
a
holiday
on
monday,
the
committee
meeting
gets
shifted
to
a
tuesday.
So
we
have
finance
that
night,
and
so
I'm
just
curious,
if
you
all
still
wanted
to
have
that
presentation
to
sophie
for
all
of
you,
I've
already
heard
it.
C
Good,
you
did,
and
I
guess
I
was
just
trying
to
relate
it
back
to
our
work
because
remember
when
you
may
not
know
this,
but
she
was
hired
to
do
that.
Contract
work
and
it
was
never
like,
say
hey.
How
does
this
combine
efforts
with
the
task
force
and-
and
I
think
it
was
like
she
was
asking
us
for
data
and
we're
like?
Well,
we
don't
really
have
data,
I
mean
it
was.
It
was
kind
of
confusing,
I
think,
for
her.
I
felt
bad
because
she
was
like
you're
a
task
force.
C
Can't
you
can't
you
give
us
data,
I'm
like
we're
still
waiting
for
data.
It
was
really
odd,
but
if
there
were
some
good
things
out
of
there
that
I
was
just
wanting
to
see
if
there
was
kind
of
a
potential
to
extract
for
recommendations
for
us
again,
it's
up
to
you
all.
I
don't
know
people's
schedule
like
what's
gonna,
what's
july
5th,
looking
like
for
you
anyway,
because
I
won't
be
here-
and
chris
won't
be
here
for
this.
For
that
meeting.
C
A
C
Was
that
something
that,
because
you
know
marcella,
I
don't
know
if
you
all
know,
but
marcella's
been
on
vacation
and
probably
long
overdue
vacation
for
a
month
and
she's
coming
back
at
the
end
of
this
month,
but
I'm
curious
if
that
was
something
a
space
that
she
wanted.
Some
other
group
remember
she
was
going
to
be
putting
together
a
panel
too.
C
C
F
So
we
were
talking
about,
I
mean
there.
There
are
some
local
jurisdictions
that
have
done
some
reforms,
and
so
I
think
the
idea
was
that
we
just
present
some
case
studies
and
then,
if
there
were
specific
people
in
those
jurisdictions
who
could
join
us,
they
could.
But
I
don't
we
hadn't
gotten
them.
You
know
lined
up
yet
so
I
don't
know
monica.
Is
there
anything
else.
D
Yeah
I
had
spoken
to
somebody
out
of
philadelphia
that,
but
I
mean
I
spoke
to
her
a
while
ago.
I
haven't
confirmed
a
date,
but
I
think
that
I
think
emily
and
I
had
talked
and
and
actually
marcella
too
we
were.
We
were
talking
about
doing
sort
of
an
overview,
providing
context
of
other
places
that
have
done
different
reforms
and
trying
to
see
then
who
might
be
available
from
these
places
to
come.
It's
just
yeah.
D
I
think
I
think
it's
perfectly
fine
for
it
not
to
be
on
the
19th.
I
honestly
on
july
19th.
If
sophie
and
our
is
going
to
speak,
I
can
also
yeah
I'm
not
sure.
If,
if
I
need
to
do
any
more
on
sort
of
like
fines
and
fees
or
form,
I
can
do
that
to
provide
more
context,
or
this
potentially
is
enough
and
then
whatever
we
put
in
the
final
report
can
be
actual
tangible
recommendations
that
the
city
could
accomplish.
So
I'm
open
to
that.
Also
it
doesn't
matter.
D
C
D
D
So
at
the
same
time
it
may
be
good
to
just
have
her,
because
then
I
may
not
be
able
to
chat
to
discuss
something
anyways,
so
maybe
talk
to
her
or
or
keep
it
open,
and
there
could
be
other
task
force
things
because
look
right
now
at
7
47
we're
still
talking
not
a
good
idea
to
double
up
now
that
I
think
about
it.
So
why
don't
I'll
take
a
later
date?
It's
not!
I.
We
have
plenty
of
dates.
C
We
don't
we
don't
really,
though
I
feel
like
we're
like
running
because
of
the
community
engagement
piece.
I
feel,
like
that's
gonna,
also
take
up
some
initial
time
before
they
actually
start
implementing
it.
There
is
some
probably
feedback
and
I'm
curious
how
dr
sanchez
will
incorporate
our
feedback
with
that
process.
I
don't
know
how
it
right.
D
So
lydia
yeah
valedio.
Why
don't
you
take
me
off
of
the
19th,
because
I'm
sorry
that
I'm
just
talking
after
thinking
about
it-
I
probably
it
probably
won't
be
enough
time
for
to
do
all
of
those
things
in
one
one
evening,
and-
and
I
can
whether
it's
with
the
report
or
at
a
later
date,
we
can
have
a
little
bit
more
of
a
synthesis
on
what
the
experts
presented
on
versus,
what's
actually
possible
in
the
city
of
santa
fe.
D
F
F
C
A
No
thank
you
renee
yeah,
it's
just
the
well,
not
just,
but
the
quarterly
report
and
and
yeah
time
is.
I
know
it's
only
june
but
pre-planning
for
the
next
two
quarters,
there's
just
a
lot
of
activity
and
it
all
leads
up
to
that
final
deliverable
right
at
the
end
of
the
year.
So
thank
you
all
for
all
the
effort
and
sending
me
all
the
information
for
the
second
quarter.
Thank
you,
yeah.
I'm
I'm.
C
C
We
will
try
hard
to
figure
this
whole
like
in-person,
slash,
hybrid.
I,
my
gosh,
apparently
there's
legislation.
That's
going
to
go
through
that
the
mayor's
sponsoring
to
clarify
this
process
about,
like
requiring
community
groups
to
meet
in
person,
and
then
we
try
this
hybrid
and
it
didn't
work.
So
I
just
want
us
to
make
sure
that
our
time
is
used
wisely
and
not
wasted.
So
lydia
did
you
have
your
hand
up?
Oh.
A
Yeah
just
two
last
things,
one
just
I
could
do
this
here
when
everybody
signs
off,
but
just
to
confirm
our
working
session
tomorrow.
If
you,
if
you
still
first
see
us
working,
I'm
still
going
to
work
on
that
task,
force,
priorities
of
course,
and
can
stay
in
touch
with
you
via
email
and
then
the
second
one
is
that
I
this
whole
hybrid
thing
I've
I
sit
on
another
commission
and
they
they
don't.
It's
like
working
effortlessly
on
that
side,
so
I'm
so
confused
as
to
why.