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E
A
A
C
A
Marcela
monica
can
you
try
to
unmute,
so
we
know
that
you
at
least
there
we
go.
Okay.
Can
you
hear
us
monica?
Okay?
Great,
I
think.
That's
it
right!
Chris.
Are
you
missing
anybody?
No,
let's!
Let
me
document
this
road
quick,
our
usual
facilitator.
It's
her
birthday
today,
valeria,
so
she
will
not
be
joining
us,
which
is
good.
A
She
should
be
off
so
chris
and
I
will
be
running
most
of
it
and
we
primarily
have
presentations
today
and
these
are
information
sessions.
So
we
can
start
the
meeting.
Then
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
call
the
chris
you're
going
to
go
ahead
and
take
this,
but
I'm
going
to
make
sure
we
have
a
correct
roll
call
for
the
community
health
and
safety
task
force
meeting
for
february
22nd
2022
and
we
have
annie
and
emily
and
marcela
and
monica
and
bruce
and
mary.
I
C
I
A
I
I
J
They
did
a
very
thorough
job
of
of
talking
with
women,
firefighters.
Looking
at
some,
you
have
the
report,
so
you
know
what's
in
the
report,
but
some
national
trends
and
and
coming
up
with
some
possible
suggestions
about
how
to
create
more
gender
equity.
So
I
think
there's
a
as
you
can
see
a
lot
of
interest
in
this
topic
on
the
call
based
on
everyone
who's
here
and
chief
moya.
Would
you
like
to
say
anything
and
introduce
and
introducing
the
work.
K
Yeah,
madam
chair,
I
think,
comes
over
our
left,
so
thank
you
for
having
us.
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
let
these
great
individuals
speak.
I've
known
both
of
them
for
a
very
long
time
and
they
have
both
given
me
the
presentation.
So
I
support
what
they're
doing
100
and
I
feel
like
us
moving
forward
and
me
being
the
new
chief
will
continue
to
develop
and
hopefully
be
able
to
change.
I
will
let
you
know
both
of
them.
K
Let
me
know
I
can
do
this
by
myself,
so
I
need
the
support
of
the
my
boss.
I
need
the
support
of
the
counselors.
I
need
the
portfolio
everybody,
so
this
is.
This
is
something
that
is
a
huge
undertaking.
It's
not
gonna
be
fixed
in
a
year.
It's
not
gonna,
be
fixing
one
or
two.
You
know
it's
gonna
take
a
lot,
so
I
appreciate
both
of
them
and
I
will
turn
over
to
both
of
them
right
now
and
we'll
get
this
started.
L
L
Yes,
I
think
I
just
have
to
be
close
to
the
screen.
Okay.
Well,
I
just
like
to
start
by
thanking
adam
chair
rivera
for
inviting
us
here
tonight.
Thank
you
to
chief
moya
as
well.
He
called
to
reassure
me
that
he
did
not
want
to
make
me
change
or
edit
my
presentation
or
what
I
had
to
say,
but
he
was
very
curious
and
wanted
to
understand
it
and
then
also.
L
C
L
Is
native
american
gave
me
a
little
perspective
in
two
different
worlds,
so
I
you
know
I
graduated
from
the
santa
fe
prep
school,
so
I've
experienced
privilege
and
I've
also,
you
know,
taken
part
in
life
at
the
pueblo
and
seeing
what
that's
like,
which
is
very
different
than
some
place.
Like
the
prep
school.
L
I've
been
in
the
fire
service
a
little
over
25
years.
I
started
as
a
volunteer
in
like
94,
came
on
full-time
with
the
city
in
97
and
worked
here
for
about
nine
years.
Before
I
moved
to
the
county,
I
worked
in
the
county,
which
is
a
mixed
system,
so
there's
volunteers,
so
it
just
opened
my
eyes
just
to
the
what
it's
like
to
work
with
that
kind
of
diversity.
You
know
volunteers,
there's
very
many
different
kinds
of
volunteers
and
we
were
able
to
you,
know,
fight
fire
and
provide
ems.
L
L
L
I
think
I
got
my
emt
license
just
so
I
could
be
in
the
fire
department,
but
over
time
I
realized
how
that
we
are
like
we're
a
health
care
provider,
so
that
intrigued
me,
I
became
a
paramedic
and
it
took
me
a
little
longer.
I'm
still
working
on
it
just
to
understand
the
what
what
it
means
to
be
a
healthcare
provider,
the
vulnerability
that
a
person
has
when
they
are
a
patient.
L
C
L
L
L
I
L
L
I
guess
I
brought
that
up
through
the
chain
of
command.
I
spoke
with
my
chief.
We
spoke
to
his
chief,
we
spoke
to
chief
babcock
and
after
that
discussion,
chief
babcock
asked
for
us
to
pursue
it,
and
we
worked
on
a
survey.
We
sent
a
survey
out
to
the
16
women
that
we
could
identify
who
had
worked
for
the
fire
department.
Historically,
I
think
we
made
contact
with
13
of
them.
L
We
did
our
best
effort
to
to
give
the
questions
that
would
help
us
understand
this,
but
you
know,
I
think
some
of
the
feedback
we
got
was
that
the
the
survey
didn't
adequately
adequately
provide
the
safety
that
might
be
needed
for
some
of
the
women
to
report
some
of
the
more
egregious
or
scary
things
that
happened
to
them.
So
the
report
does
not
include
some
of
the
more
sensitive.
I
L
That
women
experienced
so
we
compiled
that
after
looking
at
some
other
paperwork
like
reports
on
it
on
diversity
in
the
fire
service,
those
are
included
in
the
report
and
as
I
reviewed
the
report,
I
saw
a
lot
of
the
use
of
the
word
I
and
I
became
sort
of
self-conscious
about
that
and
after
further
reflection,
I
just
I
remembered
and
realized
that
you
know
this
is
a
sensitive
issue.
It's
kind
of
a
can
be
upsetting
to
me
personally.
L
L
Despite
a
lot
of
people
contributing
to
that
report,
the
committee
was,
I
guess,
the
chief
asked
us
to
put
the
committee
together.
We
had
seven
members,
there
were
four
women,
three
men,
one
hispanic
one
native
six
of
us,
were
currently
employed
in
the
fire
department
and
we
had
one
retired
chief
as
well.
K
L
L
L
Curious
why
why
we're
having
trouble
doing
it
again,
so
we
have
not
been
able
to
get
a
woman
through
probation
since
march
of
2010,
and
I
believe
that
this
is
directly
related
to
the
process
by
which
we
recruit
test,
hire
and
train.
So
without
further
assessments.
We
can
look
at
this
fact
and
either
accept.
L
This
is
what
we
want
or
face
the
fact
that,
in
order
to
improve
diversity,
we'll
have
to
make
substantial,
uncomfortable
and
perhaps
controversial
change,
something
I
I
guess
I
also
have
a
note
in
that
I
didn't
mention
is
just
that.
As
far
as
I'm
aware,
I
don't,
I
don't
believe
we
have
any
openly
lgbtq
plus
firefighters,
currently
so.
M
M
On
the
first
hand,
experience
of
being
a
woman
in
the
fire
department
how's,
my
audio,
can
you
guys
hear
you
sound
great
thanks?
Okay,
all
right
so,
like
rummas,
my
history
is
pretty
varied.
I
started
volunteering.
When
I
was.
I
can't
I
actually
can't
find
my
start
date
and
my
little
personal
planners
from
back
then,
but
actually
my
dad
happens
to
be
on
so
maybe
he
remembers.
I
was
14
or
15
at
the
time
I
got
my
emt
license
when
I
was
16.
M
got
my
emt
intermediate
license
when
I
was
17
and
started
working
as
an
emt
when
I
was
18
and
actually
at
chief
moya,
and
I
were
teenage
volunteers
together
in
santa
fe
county.
So
I
I
took
some
time
off
between
high
school
and
college
to
work
full-time
as
a
as
an
emt
on
the
ambulance.
I
worked
in
espanola
city
espanola
or
rio,
arriba
county
town
of
bernalillo,
ems
and
valencia
county,
and
I
also
started
working
around
that
time,
part-time
as
a
firefighter
at
santa
fe
county.
M
So
at
that
time
santa
fe
county
had
a
program
where
they
would
backfill
absences
from
their
full-time
field
staff
with
part-time
firefighters.
So
I
was
going
to
school
in
washington
state,
but
I
would
fly
back
sometimes
on
weekends,
sometimes
on
breaks
and
work.
24,
48,
72,
96
hour
shifts.
I
was
just
so
so
in
love
with
the
profession,
and
I
mentioned
the
santa
fe
county
part,
because
I
think
that
it
was
really
integral
to
my
having
gotten
into
the
city
as
in
2000
winter
of
2008.
M
I
finished
so
I
went
straight
from
school
in
washington
state
to
paramedic
school
at
the
community
college
here
and
then
straight
from
that
into
my
internship
and
then
santa
fe
city
was
hiring
and
I
had
always
wanted
to
work
for
santa
fe
city.
I
think
chief
or
councillor
rivera
had
helped
me
start
third
riding.
M
I
I
don't
know
how
long
ago
I
think
I
was
15
or
so
when
I
started
third
writing
at
the
city
fire
department,
and
so
I,
when
the
testing
process
opened
in
the
winter
of
2008
2009,
I
was
pretty
excited
and
I
do
think
that
it
was
because
I
had
access
to
the
same
tools
that
they
use
for
firefighter
tests.
I
both
at
the
santa
fe
county
fire
department,
where
I
was
working
and
at
actually
espanola
fire
department.
M
I
was
working
on
the
ambulance,
but
we
were
friends
with
the
firefighters
and
I
was
able
to
go
almost
every
day
and
practice
the
hose
voice.
The
dummy
drag
the
ladder
raise
all
of
those
skills
and
I
pretty
much
lived
in
a
45
pound
weighted
vest
leading
up
to
the
testing.
So
I
think
that
that's
why
I
was
able
to
pass
the
test
to
get
in.
That
was
that
testing
process
again
was
winter
of
2008
and
then
rolled
into
the
26th
cadet
academy
march
2009.
M
So
for
the
next
few
slides
orange
will
represent
men
and
purple
will
represent
women.
So
I
believe
that
the
26th
cadet
academy
was
started
as
19
men
and
me
that
was
march
of
2009
and
finished
as
16
men,
and
I
see
a
few
of
my
academy
mates
on
there.
So
maybe
they
could
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
or
on
the
on
the
attendees
list.
M
I
remember
pretty
well
well,
I
should
say
around
that
same
time,
then,
chief
rivera,
you
were
getting
ready
to
hand
the
chief
position
over
to
chief
salas
so,
and
you
can
see
chief
sullivan
in
this
newspaper
article
on
the
right.
There
was
a
lot
of
press
about
women
in
the
fire
department
at
that
time.
M
I
remember
this
article
on
the
left.
I
actually
had
thrown
it
away.
I
never
wanted
to
see
it
again
at
the
time,
because
I
was
so
humiliated
by
it
like
pit
stains
and
all
right,
but
they
that
we
were
told
the
day
before
that
reporters
would
be
coming
to
interview
us
during
the
academy,
and
I
actually
requested
to
decline
the
interview
and
to
not
be
pictured.
M
I
just
thought
it
was
kind
of
interesting
that,
as
I
was
searching
for
this,
I
remembered
that
one
of
the
articles
was
titled
breaking
into
the
boys
club,
and
so
I
searched
that
and
an
article
from
july
2021
came
up.
I
think
it
featured
some
women
who
some
women,
or
at
least
one
woman
who
passed
the
agility
test
at
that
time
so
this
last
summer,
but
they
didn't
end
up
in
the
academy
that
that
we
currently
have
so
so
no
women
are
current
cadets.
M
M
I
think,
if
I
remember
correctly-
and
I
I
couldn't
do-
I
could
do
one
pull-up
at
the
beginning
of
the
academy-
and
I
think,
during
the
examination
from
the
training
seeing
us
that
I
would
be
offered
the
opportunity
to
do
a
hang
test,
the
women's
equivalent
that
the
military
used
for
pull-ups
at
that
time.
But
I
really
was
hopeful
that
I
would
be
able
to
do
some,
the
actual
pull-ups
and
to
get
out
of
the
academy.
M
If
I
remember
correctly,
I
ended
up
doing
chin-ups,
so
under-handed
pull-ups,
not
over-handed,
pull-ups
and
then
to
get
off
probation.
I
did.
I
just
worked
my
butt
off
in
the
on
pull-ups,
specifically
in
the
few
months
between
getting
out
of
the
academy
and
probation,
ending
and
geeked
out
ten
pull-ups.
Although
chief
martinez,
I
see
you're
on
here-
and
I
think
you
were
in
there,
so
you
might
be
questioning
my
form
on
those
pull-ups
but
ended
up
taking
the
test
to
the
male
standards.
M
M
But
I
didn't
realize
at
the
time
so
much
that
that's
kind
of
a
common
thing
that
happens
with
with
marginalized
groups
and
with
tokenism
and
that
each
of
those
comments
is
actually
a
comment
at
the
expense
of
other
women
in
the
department
and
that
I'm
sure
that
they
were
receiving
that
many
or
more
comments.
Similar
comments
about
me.
So
I
actually
at
that
time,
especially
when
I
got
in
and
actually
probably
for
the
first
decade
that
I
worked
in
the
department.
M
M
M
M
This
is
only
including
women
who've
been
through
the
academy,
so
it's
not
including
our
administrative
assistants
and
case
managers
and
fleet,
and
then
I
just
wanted
to
personalize
it
a
little
bit
and
show
some
photographs
with
the
women
and
that
I
have
had
the
opportunity
to
serve
alongside
so
on.
The
far
far
left
is
janet
deluzio.
She
was
not
a
firefighter
she's,
actually,
the
wife
of
frank
delezio.
M
He
was,
I
think,
the
chief
who
I
know
he
made
it
one
of
his
goals
to
hire
a
bunch
of
women,
and
I
think
that
he
might
have
been
the
chief
who
hired
the
most
women
so
starting
from
the
purple
sweatshirt
on
to
the
right.
It's
all
women
who've
worked
at
the
fire
department
at
the
city
fire
department,
so
we
have
chief
kitty
cassidy.
M
That's
me
hiding
in
the
back.
We
have
chief,
barbara
solis,
chief,
sheila,
buehler
and
linda
who
retired
as
a
captain
and
then
in
the
bottom.
We
have
a
fun
on
duty
picture
of
chief
bueller,
captain
snyder
and
myself
doing
some
pt,
and
so
something
that
sticks
out
to
me,
as
I
look
back
at
this
report,
is
just
the
average
career
length
for
women
in
the
department
is
11
years
or
10,
depending
on
whether
you're
looking
at
median.
C
M
And
I
think
that
that
really
speaks
to
the
fact
that
this
conversation
can
so
easily
lead
to
us
having
debates
about
how
to
get
more
women
in
the
door
or
how
to
train
women
so
that
they
can
pass
the
agility
test.
But
I
think
it's
also
imperative
that
we
look
at
once.
Women
are
in.
Is
it
a
comfortable
place
to
work?
Is
it
a
welcoming
and
inclusive
place
to
work,
and
that
brings
me
to
my
last
slide
for
this
portion,
which
is
just
most
of
these
conversations
that
I've
heard
around
have
involved?
M
M
Cultural
change
is
really
tricky.
I
don't
think
it's
something
that
I,
as
a
fairly
less
powerful
person
in
the
department,
can
speak
to
how
to
do
in
particular.
But
I
do
have
some
ideas
about
structural
change
and
structural
change
could
mean
everything
from
the
way
the
stations
are
laid
out.
Uniforms
lots
of
different
things,
but
the
one
that
I
thought
might
be
useful
to
point
out
is
an
alternative
shift
schedule.
M
So
we
typically
firefighters,
work
two
days
on
and
then
have
four
days
off
and
a
day
shift
instead
is
something
like
12
hour
shifts
like
say
sunday,
monday,
tuesday
to
thursday,
friday,
saturday
and
then
alternating
wednesdays,
and
that,
first
of
all,
it's
pretty
dang
hard
to
argue
that
it's
not
a
more
efficient
staffing
model,
but
second
of
all,
it
is
perhaps
more
friendly
for
new
families.
This
came
in
to
be
a
little
passion
of
mine.
M
When
I
was
a
new
mom,
I
had
a
12
week
old
at
home
and
leaving
him
leaving
my
kiddo
at
home
for
48
hours
at
a
time
was
it
just
felt
super
unnatural?
So
it's
not
just
a
maternity
accommodation.
I
think
I've
talked
with
a
number
of
men
who
would
appreciate
that
accommodation
for
their
family
members,
whether
it's
a
new
baby
or
an
aging
parent,
so
just
having
some
alternative
shift
schedules.
M
L
L
But
what
I've
come
to
understand
now
and
believe
is
that
you
know
the
4896
can
still
exist
and
people
that
that
works
for
should
be
able
to
access
that
and
have
that
and
enjoy
that
schedule,
but
that
to
have
an
option
as
well.
So
it's
an
and
sort
of
situation-
and
that
applies
to
the
lactation
policy.
Part
of
the
proposal
in
the
lactation
policy
was
to
allow
a
mother
to
work
some
sort
of
day
shift
type
schedule.
So
there's
a
few
options
in
that.
L
L
The
diversity
committee
was
also
lacking.
A
larger
community
perspective,
which
I
think
might
give
us
some
accountability
to
the
broader
community
because
it
only
included
the
currently
employed,
firefighters
and
then
one
retired
chief
and
the
the
last
two
bullets
I
just
want
to
frame
in
a
way
that
it's
not
trying
to
make
anybody
look
bad
per
se.
I
do
feel
that
that
it's
important
to
you
know
you,
I
think,
you're
getting
a
report,
a
presentation
on
restorative
justice
and
and
that's
really
about
not
vilifying
anyone
or
making
anyone
wrong.
L
L
L
L
I
hope
this
isn't
taken
in
a
negative
way,
but
I
do
feel
that
it's
an
accurate
statement
that
change
there's
has
to
go
through
hr
they're,
a
big
player
in
this,
so
any
effort
will
have
to
have
their
full
and
enthusiastic
support.
So
I
hope
you
can
hear
that
in
a
in
the
most
positive
and
factual
way,
without
feeling
like
anybody
needs
to
be
on
the
defensive.
So
with
that,
I
think
that
concludes
our
report
and
I'll.
I
E
Thank
you,
councillor
rivera
and
thank
you
all
for
your
time.
I
appreciate
the
work
that
the
team
has
put
into
this
effort
and
I
just
wanted
to
let
everyone
know
that
hr
wholeheartedly
supports
efforts
to
have
our
policies
be
more
inclusionary
and
definitely,
if
I
receive
a
lactation
policy,
we
would
explore
that
and
determine
what
needs
to
be
done
for
implementation.
E
We
currently,
of
course,
abide
by
federal
and
state
regulations
that
allow
for
reasonable
break
period
times
and
location
for
lactation.
So
that's
that's
already
in
place
and
they're.
We
work
closely
with
the
department
not
only
fire
department
but
all
other
city
departments
in
these
efforts
for
these
types
of
accommodations
and
again,
certainly,
we
would
love
the
opportunity
to
review
any
draft
policies.
I
J
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
First,
I
just
like
to
thank
captain
applewhite
and
ramos
sosi
for
their
dedication
to
the
department
to
the
community
and
to
getting
to
the
heart
of
this
issue.
This
is
a
difficult
conversation
to
have
it's
a
difficult
conversation
to
have
publicly.
I
think
it's
important
and
I
would
like
to
say
that
you
know
they.
J
I
read
their
report
when
I
first
came
on
to
the
job
as
the
community
health
and
safety
director,
and
I
take
responsibility
that
it
didn't
go
to
the
top
of
my
list
of
things
that
I
had
to
do
in
the
first.
You
know
90
days
of
my
of
my
time
here,
but
I'm
glad
we're
having
this
discussion
now
to
the
point
about
hr.
J
I
really
think
that
we
we
are
all
are
all
are
all
a
team
at
the
city
and
our
departments
need
to
work
together
as
a
team
people
within
the
fire
department
need
to
be
a
team.
People
within
the
community,
health
and
safety
department
need
to
be
a
team
we're
getting
to
the
bottom
of
why
that
policy
didn't
make
its
way
to
bernadette
it
didn't,
and
it's
not
that
you
know
she.
She
saw
it
and
didn't
regard
it
and
again
it
in
looking
at
it.
J
Initially,
it
looks
like
it's
a
miscommunication
between
fire
department
staff
and
hr
staff.
That's
all
I'll
say
for
now
we're
trying
to
get
to
the
bottom
of
that,
but
I
think
what
that
speaks
to
is
not
any
sort
of,
let's
say,
intentional
disregard
for
an
issue,
but
a
context
in
which
we're
all
working,
which
is
bureaucratic,
overloaded
and
in
that
context,
culture
change.
Structural
change
is
very
challenging.
J
So
I
think
what
we
can
do
is
give
each
other
the
benefit
of
the
doubt
work
together,
as
we
very
much
want
to
work
with
the
task
force
to
really
improve
on
the
situation.
I
think
what
captain
applewhite
the
part
of
the
presentation
that
stood
out
to
me
was
her
very
poignant,
description
of
coming
to
a
family's
home
and
a
woman
telling
her
how
happy
she
was
to
be
served
by
another
woman
which.
K
I
A
Many
you
know
some
may
may
appreciate
this
conversation.
Maybe
some
feel
uncomfortable
about
it,
but
it's
really
not
to
place
blame
on
any
individual
or
past
leadership.
It's
really
about
focusing
on
the
now
looking
at
cultural
shifts
and
also
like
what's
happening
across
the
country
and
changes
is
happening,
and
I
think
it's
just
good
to
to
think
about
ways
that
we
can
go
against
the
grain
and
that
it
potentially
will
be
better
in
the
long
run
for
everybody.
A
I
just
think
that
it
takes
that
bravery
that
we
talked
about
that
captain
applewhite
and
ramos
brought
up.
So
I
appreciate
them
taking
the
time
to
do
that
and
actually
being
vulnerable
with
us,
because
I
think
being
vulnerable
makes
us
human.
So
we
want
to
be
human
when
we're
interacting
with
people
in
the
public.
J
That
will
give
us
a
portrait
of
the
workforce
which
may
be
able
to
implement
some
of
the
schedule,
changes
that
captain
applewhite
mentioned
and
then
also
we've
started
to
do
to
do
crisis
intervention
training,
and
I
intend
to
do
much
more
training.
We
have
a
lot
more
resources
than
we've
ever
had
in
the
fire
department
to
do
some
really
high
quality
training.
So
those
are
just
a
couple
of
things
that
we
are
doing
to
address.
Some
of
the
issues
raised
tonight.
A
It
was
at
the
request
of
members
of
the
community
health
and
safety
task
force,
so
we
we
are
actually
doing
this
in
many
different
ways:
presentations
on
just
information
gathering,
so
this
was
one
topic
and
there's
plenty
of
other
topics
that
we'll
be
having
presentations
on
so
I'll,
go
ahead
and
pass
it
to
annie
and
then
bruce
and
chris
I'll.
Let
you
know
if
there's
anyone
else
raising
their
hand
thanks.
F
A
F
F
Is
there
a
plan
to
move
the
hiring
testing
and
the
training
away
from
like
pull-ups,
as
faith
had
said,
to
more
patient
care
and
then
my
second
question
is
I'm
a
former
firefighter
with
the
city
of
santa
fe?
I
was
a
female
firefighter
there
for
seven
years,
so
knowing
the
internal
culture,
if
someone
complains
about
harassment
or
abuse,
how
are
they
protected?.
K
Hey
mr
chair
counselor,
our
committee
member
raskin,
thank
you
for
the
question.
We
are
not
going
away.
We
still
have
to
hire
firemen.
We
are
a
pr.
The
plan
is
pra
plan,
five,
so
fire
plan.
So
if
we
go
away
from
that,
we
lose
that
plan.
So
we
will
have
to
change
things.
We
can't
just
go
away
from
doing
fires,
you
know
it's
it's
a
safety
net.
We
will
be
more
cultural
changed.
K
I
have
my
training
officer
on
the
call
with
me,
but
we
we're
we
still
have
to
do
all
of
these
things.
We
are
not
going
to
just
go
away
from
this
structure.
We
still
have
to
prepare
provide
that
kind
of
service
to
the
community.
We
we
we're,
but
we
will
be
more
trans,
more
changing
in
the
way
we
do
things
in
the
future.
We
have
added
the
new
training
that
we
gave
the
whole
department.
K
We
have
added
that
to
the
academy
this
time,
but
but
it's
it's
not
just
changing
how
we
do
things
or
doing
that,
because
that
one
call
happens
and
we're
not
prepared
for
that
fire
or
whatever.
That
is
we
will.
We
will
struggle
we're
going
to
struggle.
We
might
lose
a
fireman.
We
might
lose
that
person
in
that
house
if
we're
not
prepared.
K
So
we
might
prepare
more
for
the
fires,
because
we
don't
do
them
as
often,
but
we
still
have
to
continue
to
move
forward
and
we
still
have
to
continue
to
provide
that
service
to
the
community.
So
just
because
our
numbers
are
low
and
our
fire
fires,
we
don't
have
as
many
it's
due
to
our
good
fire
prevention,
so
I
have
a
division.
We
really
don't
talk
about
fire
prevention,
does
a
great
job
in
preventing
fires
and
helping
the
community
move
forward.
K
So
we
we
will
continue
to
strive
to
make
changes,
but
our
name
is
santa
fe
fire
department
and
we
continue
to
support
that.
I
believe
in
that
I've
been
here
doing
this
for
20
years
now,
so
we
can.
We
can
add
those
things
to
us.
Just
like
the
d
chef
thing,
I
can't
do
it
with
do
it
with
the
current
models
we
have
to
expand.
We
have
to
put
more
people
on
there.
You
know
we
still
have
to
have
those
response
times
in
district
8..
K
You
know
I
don't
have
a
close
ambulance
or
fire
truck,
so
we
have
to
be
within
that
two
minute.
You
know
two
minute
time
frame,
so
we
still
have
to
move
forward.
I
know
that
I
know
that
we
need
to
change.
I
know
we
need
to
do
a
better
job,
but
we
also
have
to
provide
the
whole
service.
We
still
provide
for
the
community,
we're
not
just
going
to
go
away
from
this
because
we
don't
have
enough
fires.
C
K
I
E
E
There's
the
complaint
process.
Employees
can
also
file
grievances.
They
can
go
that
direction
as
well,
but
they
we
definitely
have
anti-retaliation
policies
in
place
and
through
the
course
of
a
complaint
process.
Anyone
filing
a
complaint
is
reminded
that
if
they
experience
any
retaliation
in
the
process,
not
only
after
but
of
course
during
the
process,
when
investigation
interviews
are
conducted,
they
are
provided
with
a
resource
to
call
in
the
event
that
they
might
experience
that.
So
we
take
that
very
seriously
to
ensure
that
people
don't
have
those
experiences.
F
I
do
have
one
last
question
for
captain
applewhite
and
for
mr
sosi
I
I've
noticed
a
lot
of
the
same.
People
are
in
this
presentation
that
were
in
the
mijo,
the
alternative
response
unit
and
I'm
wondering
what
your
perspective
is
on:
patient
care
and
public
service
from
the
fire
department
and
diversity.
If
increased
diversity
has
an
impact
that
you've
seen
on
patient
care,.
L
L
Everybody
here
really
wants
to
serve
the
public,
and
so
I
think
we
yeah
I've
been
here
all
these
years,
because
I
feel
like
it's
such
a
great
opportunity
to
serve,
and
I
get
a
lot
from
that,
but
I
think
yeah
it
does
help
to
have
an
understanding
of
the
the
the
person's
perspective
and
and
the
more
diversity
we
have.
I
think,
would
improve
that.
So
you
know
like
like
the
description
of
what
captain
applewhite
had
about
women
being
patients.
L
My
wife
actually
joined
the
fire
department
because
she
saw
a
rape
and
saw
that
the
woman
wanted
wanted
a
woman
to
be
there
for
her,
and
so
that's
what
motivated
her
to
join
the
fire
department.
So
it's
not
to
say
that
anybody's
bad,
but
just
more
diversity
is,
is
good.
It's
I
think
it
helps
us
open
our
eyes
and
be
aware
of
different
sensitivities
and
perspectives.
B
But
my
question
would
be
in
the
light
of
what
the
santa
fe
fire
department
most
of
their
calls.
Now
are
medical
assist
type
from
what
I've
seen
and
correct
me.
If
I'm
wrong
medical
assist
type
issues,
could
could
the
city
modify
the
testing
procedure
to
allow
people
that
you
know
can't
do
20
pull-ups
come
into
the
fire
department?
K
Mr
chair
member
finger
yeah,
so
we
have
changed
how
we've
hired
people
when
I
was
health
and
safety
officer
three
years
ago
we
changed
how
we
did
it.
We
went
to
an
outside
company
with
the
help
of
director
salazar.
We
went
to
a
different
company.
We
don't
require
pull-ups
to
get
into
the
fire
academy.
So
we
went
to
a
different
strategy.
We
made
it
so
it
was
able
to
be
validated.
We
validated
internally.
They
had
a
they
had
a
company
come
in
and
validate
this
process.
K
We
did
things
differently
because
some
things
weren't
right,
we
never
really
pulled
up.
You
know
three
inch
hose
up
the
side
of
the
tower.
That's
how
I
got
in
the
fire
department.
So
we
we
have
changed
how
we've
done
it.
We've
given
people
all
multiple
times
to
come.
Try
our
physical
agility
course.
We've
changed,
how
we've
done
things
chi
frick,
and
I,
when
I
worked
for
him
in
the
training
division
we
did
saturday
sessions.
We've
we've
expanded
it.
K
So
on
saturdays,
they
can
come
practice
each
assessment
of
the
course
and
then
they
can
test
out
at
the
end
of
the
day
and
if
they
pass,
we
give
them
a
certificate
and
they
can
use
that
to
apply
when
we
have
an
opening
and
they
don't
have
to
redo
the
course
again.
So
we've
given
we
have
changed
how
we've
done
things.
We've
changed
the
culture
we
have
tried
to
make
it.
You
know
we
want
you
to
proceed
when
I
started
20
years
ago.
K
If
you
failed,
see
you
in
a
year
and
a
half
or
see
you
in
two
years,
so
we've
tried
to
make
the
process
better,
probably
make
the
process
easier
to
the
fact
of
we're,
giving
you
more
chances.
We
want
you
to
work
for
us.
We
don't
want
you
to
get
discouraged
and
have
to
wait
a
year
until
we
hire
again
and
I'm
also
doing
a
lot
of
laterals.
I
just
hired
two
laterals
firefighters
and
I
hired
a
lateral
paramedic
and
I'm
seeing
the
value,
and
we
don't
have
to
train
everybody.
K
You
know
if
they
can
come
from
a
different
department
and
they
have
the
skills
we'll
give
them
a
short
training
and
we'll
put
them
out
in
the
field.
So
we
are
changing
how
we
do
things,
we're
changing,
how
the
culture
and
and-
and
it's
done
over
time-
it's
not.
It's
not
changed
overnight,
so
we're
getting
better
at
you
know
showing
the
crews
that
we
can
do
these
things.
We
can
do
them
differently
and
it
still
is
the
same
outcome.
So
I
hope
that
helps
with
you
member
finger.
D
D
The
way
that
the
we,
the
cadet
academy
works,
is
generally
the
first
13
weeks
are
related
to
firefighting,
because
we
need
people
to
get
credentialed
in
that
and
then
the
next
weeks
are
devoted.
Excuse
me,
the
next
eight
weeks
are
devoted
to
ems
training,
and
so
they
get
substantial
training
and
both
to
more
directly
answer
your
question:
could
we
direct
training
more
to
ems,
certainly,
but
what
we're
doing
is
how
do
I
say
this?
D
The
emt
training
is
a
licensure
in
the
state
of
new
mexico
and
we
prepare
people
specifically
to
become
an
entry-level
emt,
which
is
the
emt
basic
level
for
those
who
choose
to
move
up.
There
are
additional
trainings
that
come
later
if
they
volunteer
for
what
is
called
emg
intermediate
and
paramedic
those
happen
outside
of
the
context
of
the
cadet
academy,
so
they
get
extensive
training
in
both,
and
it
is
worth
me
adding.
There
are
no
pull-up
requirements.
We
changed
that
stuff
a
decade
ago.
D
There
are
physical
requirements
and
they're
specifically
related
to
the
the
tasks
of
firefighting,
there's
nothing
related
to
a
specific
amount
of
weight
per
se
on
a
bar
or
a
number
of
pull-ups.
So
in
that
way
it's
changed
quite
a
bit.
Could
that
be
up
for
discussion?
Obviously,
people
are
going
to
have
their
opinions
on
on
on
any
number
of
things
that
we
do
and
that's
a
fair
discussion
to
have
for
sure.
B
Thank
you
eli.
I
I
appreciate
your
standing
in
the
department
I
I
retired,
as
a
training
director
for
department,
so
I
I
know
where
you're
coming
from.
I
was
just
concerned
with
the
entry
level
re
physical
requirements,
because
sometimes
they
can
be,
they
can
weed
out.
People
that
are
really
would
really
be
productive
to
the
department
on
the
emt
side.
But
now
I
understand
all
the
state,
regs
and
stuff.
B
N
Hi
good
evening
really
want
to
thank
captain
applewhite
and
mr
tosi
for
the
presentation
and
the
leadership
and
the
candid
information
shared
with
us
today
and
just
as
a
parent
of
an
eight-year-old
girl.
I
want
to
thank
you
captain
for
being
this
incredible
role:
model
model
for
our
children.
I
and
I
was
also
struck
captain
by
your
comment
about
the
the
easy
changes
we
can
make
are
around
recruitment
and
branding
and
how
that
really
does.
K
N
A
M
Here:
okay
how's:
this:
the
report
did
have
a
few
recommendations
in
regards
to
culture
change
and
I
think
that
we
also
would
look
to
stakeholders
like
you
to
advise
on
that
and
and
the
chiefs
and
everybody
the
whole
community.
I
think
the
recommendation
in
the
report
was
that
maybe
a
moderator,
a
change
facilitator
be
brought
in.
I
don't
really
know
a
lot
about
organizational
culture
change,
but
but
yes,
certainly,
there
are
also
some
more
structural
changes.
That
could
happen.
L
Yeah,
I
can
just
add
that
there
are
recommendations
in
the
report
and
that
was
mostly
composed
by
me.
So
it's
one
person
just
keep
that
in
mind
one
person's
interpretation
of
of
what
I
heard.
So
I
tried
to
take
what
I
heard
from
the
people
who
responded
all
the
women.
They
had
different
experiences,
and
I
I
really
wanted
to
try
to
pass
that
along
and
not
edit
it
and
say
this
qualifies
for
a
recommendation,
and
this
doesn't
so.
L
I
hope
you
can
see
that
the
recommendations
in
that
report
anyway,
are
a
result
of
the
feedback
that
I
had,
after
speaking
with
the
various
women
that
responded
to
the
initial
survey,
and
then
there
were
a
few
that
I
was
able
to
have
like
a
longer
conversation
with
and
talk
more
about
different
options.
So
that's
how
those
things
got
into
the
report.
M
I
think
I'll
just
add:
there's
there
are
other
changes
that
I
know
are
kind
of
slow
in
coming
just
uniforms
that
fit
women
stations
that
are
comfortable
for
women,
bunk
rooms
that
are
comfortable
for
women
bathrooms
that
are
comfortable
for
women.
Those
are
all
kind
of,
in
my
mind
at
least
examples
of
structural
changes
that
are
not
no
cost,
but
they
are
also
not
super
difficult
or
challenging.
Culturally.
So,
thank
you.
L
N
A
You
know,
be
able
to
interview
people
and
make
them
feel
safe
and
circ
in
in
their
assessment
and
the
other
thing.
It
would
be
good
to
kind
of
get
an
assessment
too,
of
the
folks
that
weren't
part
of
the
set
study
like
having
an
overall
picture
of
the
attitudes
and
perspectives
or
the
lack
of
gender
diversity
in
the
in
the
force,
and
not
just
serving
a
small
group,
but
just
looking
at
it
from
a
holistic
point
of
view
and
then
narrowing
down.
A
So
I'm
just
suggesting
that
as
we
move
forward,
if
staff's
thinking
of
doing
something
to
get
a
clear
picture
about
what's
happening
and
maybe
update
from
what
was
already
done,
because
I
think
that
was
helpful
from
a
qualitative
point
of
view.
So
that's
just
a
comment
and
then
the
other
question
I
had.
A
M
A
M
A
M
A
M
Okay,
so
I
think
that
it
was
that
that
was
the
context
of
or
the
framework
of
the
policy
throughout,
because
that's
the
federal
requirement,
but
we
would
definitely
be
open
to
longer
longer
accommodations
being
in
play.
It
felt
like
a
big
lift
just
to
just
to
try
to
structure
that
one
year,
so
that
was
that
was
the
context
that
the
conversations
had
been
in
just
because
that's
the
federal
law.
A
L
I
think
that
came
from
feedback
from
a
woman
who
worked
here
for
a
while
and
then
an
ems
system,
and
they
would
hire
people
sort
of
as
a
lateral
but
like
just
come
in
at
a
certain
whatever
position
throughout
so
the
way
most
fire
departments
work.
Is
you
have
to
start
as
a
you
know,
probationary
and
work
your
way
up
through
the
promotional
ladder,
and
so
their
experience
was
that
bringing
some
people
in
straight
through
to
different
leadership
positions
was
what
she
had
recommended.
A
Okay,
thank
you
and
then
the
other
thing
was
about.
We
were
talking
about
physical
ability
tests,
and
I
was
just
curious
if
you
all
actually
have,
along
with
the
physical
ability
tests,
which
makes
sense
for
certain
aspects
of
your
job,
but
also
is
there
a
mental
agility
test
that
goes
alongside
with
with
the
whatever
training,
whatever
you're
required
to
do?
I
don't
know
if
you
call
it
that,
but
I
I
called
it
that
mental
agility
test.
D
D
The
first
round
is
a
panel
interview
with
a
variety
of
personnel
from
the
department
and
we
take
the
highest
ranking
candidates
at
that
point
to
the
chiefs
interview
where
final
selections
are
made
once
they
get
offered
a
position,
they
go
through
contingent
offer
testing,
which
involves
a
background
track.
Excuse
me
background
check,
psychological
evaluation
and
a
drug
screen
and
a
medical
physical.
I
should
say
so.
That's
that's
kind
of
the
comprehensive.
So
did
that
answer
your
question
or
for
mental
agility?
What
what?
What
do
you
think.
A
I
think
the
aptitude
test
may
cover
it,
but
and
then
maybe
there's
psychological
tests,
but
maybe
it
would
be
helpful
to
look
at
the
like
flow
and
you
could
send
that
to
us
via
email.
I
just
want
to
see
it
like
I'm
a
visual
person,
so
if
you
could
see
the
flow
of
like
what
people
have
to
go
through.
D
So
in
2019
the
department
hired
a
company
what's
their
name,
I've
got
it
written
here,
fire
and
police
selection
incorporated,
and
they
do
a
validation
process
that
involves
giving
out
multiple
questionnaires
to
individuals
in
the
department
related
to
what
they
consider
their
job
tasks.
For
instance,
as
chief
moya
mentioned,
we
used
to
have
a
requirement
to
hoist
a
hose
up
a
tower.
Well,
nobody
hoists
a
hose
up
a
building
in
santa
fe.
It
just
doesn't
happen,
so
we
got
rid
of
it
now,
they're,
the
ones
who
use
that
information.
D
In
addition
to
times
that
we
put
people
through
to
validate
the
actual
required
time
that
was
needed,
and
then
they
gave
us
those
times
that
they
recommended
we
use
and
the
course
obviously
that
if
we
wanted
it
to
be
validated
under
their
name,
they
designed
it.
So
we
basically
set
it
up
then,
once
they
designed
it
based
on
the
feedback
that
they
had
received.
A
I
I
K
Oh
contemporary,
yes,
so
yeah
we
we're
a
one-tier
system,
so
we're
the
biggest
one-tier
system
in
the
state
where
we
run
fire
and
medical
calls.
So
by
us
doing
that
we
are
able
to
provide
better
service
to
the
community.
We
don't
have
to
wait
for
an
instance.
Albuquerque
fire
responds
to
a
call
and
if
they
don't
necessarily
need
to
take
this
call,
they
have
to
wait
for
albuquerque
ambulance
to
arrive
to
to
take
that
patient
to
the
hospital.
K
So
we
are
able
to
do
all
of
this,
so
we
show
up
to
the
call
we
are
able
to
transport
say:
med,
one
transports
and
engine
one
goes
back
to
the
station
we're
able
to.
If
we
get
another
call
in
district
one
engine
one
first
responds
and
they
give
render
care
first
and
then
our
secondary
ambulance,
if
it's
coming
from
district
4
or
district
3
respond
to
that
call
to
assist
so
we're
not
only
trying
to
evaluate
our
fire
trucks,
not
running.
You
know
as
many
fires,
but
we're
also
they're.
K
But
what
else
can
they
do
to
provide
help
them
be
better
at
their
jobs
and
better
that
they
want
to
stay
as
a
paramedic?
So
I
think
that
is
those
are
the
big
keys
that
that
are
different
for
santa
fe
fire
department
compared
to
anywhere
else
in
the
state,
and
that
is
what
we're
unique
is
where
we
don't
have
to
worry
about
an
outside
ambulance
waiting,
we're
there
for
30
minutes.
Well,
we're
helping
render
care
to
this
person.
I
So
in
our
last
presentation
we
heard
about
the
idea
of
getting
social
workers
on
the
fire
plan
and
then
tonight
we
heard
about
just
hiring
people
for
ems
work
and
not
necessarily
firework
which
could
be
done,
but
they
wouldn't
be
part
of
that
20-year
or
25-year
retirement
plan
that
the
fire
department
has,
because
that's
a
fire
plan
is
that
correct.
Is
that
a
fair
statement.
K
That
is
a
that
is
a
fair
segment.
I
think
I
think
that
is
a
lot
to
do
with
the
future.
If,
if
we
want
to
go
to
legislature
and
spite
for
the
case
managers
that
I
have
currently
on
my
staff
to
get
that,
I
I'm
on
board
100,
I
think
I
think
there's
some
changes
that
we
need
to
do
moving
forward,
but
currently
that
is
how
it
stands,
and
that
is
something
that
we
look
forward
to.
K
E
I
I
I
K
Mr
chair
yeah,
council
rivera,
I
did
some
research
today.
I
just
wanted
to
see
if
we're
in
left
field
and
we're
all
by
ourselves.
I
don't
know
if
many
of
you
know,
but
my
wife
is
a
fire
woman.
She's
been
with
santa
fe
county
for
14
years.
She
had
to
leave
the
field,
doing
it
due
to
an
injury,
so
she
runs
their
mobile,
integrated
health.
That
chief
mercado
runs
for
us,
so
she's
a
one-man
show
over
there
with
one
one
council
person
that
helps
her.
K
But
I
did
some
research
and
currently
santa
fe
county
has
three
people
in
operations
and
two
in
support.
Los
alamos
only
has
two
female
firefighters.
Currently
they
have
one
that
just
got
off
probation
and
one
chief
officer
and
rio.
Rancho
has
eight
female
officers
and
the
last
time
a
female
officer
has
been
hired.
There
was
in
2018.,
so
those
are
comparable
departments
that
you
know
similar
in
size
to
what
we
carry.
We
have
145
operational
staff
and
then
I
have
a
support
staff
on
the
other
side.
K
So
I
just
kind
of
wanted
to
make
sure
I
wasn't
you
know
santa
fe
fire
department's
all
in
left
field.
Where
we're
you
know
very
unique
and
not
hiring
people.
We
haven't
hired
a
body
in
10
years,
but
we're
not
out
of
the
realm
of
you
know.
Not
many
departments
are
higher
than
female,
so
it's
not
just
santa
fe
fire
department's
problem.
It's
it's
it's!
You
know.
It's
closer
departments
near
us
have
the
same
issue
that
we're
having.
I
D
Counselor,
I
can't
give
you
specific
numbers
off
the
top
of
my
head,
just
because
I
I
don't
have
those
in
front
of
me-
and
I
don't
recall
specifically
so
I'm
hesitant-
to
give
you
specific
numbers.
I
can
tell
you
generically
the
number
of
women
who
apply
is
consistently
low.
This
is
every
year,
and
so
certainly
an
increase
in
volume
of
applicants.
I
think,
would
be
key
to
actually
hiring
more
women
onto
the
job.
D
C
I
D
Again,
we're
dealing
with
small
enough
numbers
that
how
much
we
can
take
from
them
is
is
challenging.
Chief
moya
mentioned
that
we
do
information
sessions
as
a
part
of
our
pre-hiring
process
and
those
are
designed
to
help
people
understand
what
the
fire
department
does.
A
lot
of
people
have
misinformation
about
that
and
a
big
part
of
that
day,
which
is
a
four-hour
just
voluntary
session,
is
we
show
them
the
physical
ability
course
and
we
we
give
them
opportunities
to
practice
it.
D
We
give
them
tips
and
tricks,
and
we've
set
it
up
so
that,
knowing
that
this
is
a
challenge
for
a
number
of
people
they
get
to
test
out
that
day
and
if
they
pass,
they
get
there
they're
done
meaning.
This
is
before
the
hiring
process
even
starts.
We
give
them
a
cert
and
they
pass
through.
We
also
let
them
retest,
basically
on
a
weekly
basis
at
that
point,
so
there
are
numerous
opportunities
to
re-test,
but,
for
instance,
we
did
have
a
female
candidate
all
right.
D
I
I
B
B
So
is
it
not
a
state
standard
or
is
it
a
standard
that
santa
fe
has
adopted,
because
I'm
just
I'm
just
wondering
why
why
that
if,
if
the
officers
aren't
I'm
just
that,
that's
that's
it.
I
just
wanted
to
know
if,
if
we're
following
the
state
standards
or
if
it's
a
standard
that
this
we've
adopted,
that
the
city
has
chosen.
D
I
M
M
I
just
wanted
to
just
note
that,
in
addition
to
one
of
the
things
that
the
diversity
committee
spent
some
time
talking
about
also
is
just
accepting
the
national,
there
is
a
kind
of
a
better
known
national
standard.
The
cpat,
and
one
thing
that
is
super
seems
like
a
super
low
cost
fix
for
us
would
just
be
to
accept
the
certification
if
any
applicants
have
it
of
the
national
test.
I
Thank
you
any
other
comments
or
questions,
and
I
know
faith
didn't
say
this,
but
when
I
was
there
when
she
went
through
her
physical
agility
and
she
smoked
it,
she
smoked
all
the
men
in
in
the
yeah
he
did
yeah.
I
remember
I
could
probably
recite
your
time
that
you
did
it,
but
she
did
a
great
job.
So
I
was
proud
to
be
able
to
bring
her
on
when
I
was
in
training
so,
but
she
did
a
great
job.
So
she'll
never
say
that
about
herself,
but
she
smoked
it
bruce.
I
I
H
Hi
everyone,
it's
it's
almost
seven
o'clock
and
there's
another
presentation,
and
I
feel
like
everything
that
we've
heard
is
so
important,
but
I
also
think
that
being
meaningful
and
respectful
of
people's
presentations
is
really
important,
and
so
what?
If
we
rescheduled
us,
if
that's
okay
with
you
marcella,
and
we
allow
the
third
presentation
to
show
up,
because
I
know
that
there's
going
to
be
questions
in
regards
to
restorative
justice,
and
I
want
to
say
this
now
that
I
have
the
floor.
I
wasn't
at
my
best.
H
H
We
don't
have
to
be
great
to
start,
but
we
have
to
start
to
be
great
and
today's
our
day
to
walk
away
from
this
meeting
and
recognize
what
needs
to
be
updated,
and
sometimes
it's
attitude
and
it's
the
way
that
we
show
up
every
day
at
work
and
the
way
we
view
people
and
the
way
we
see
people.
I
see
you.
I
just
want
you
to
know
that
marcella
go
ahead
and
speak.
O
No,
I'm
perfectly
fine.
I
think
I
think
there
will
be
a
lot
of
questions
about
the
intro
and
I
I
just
don't
think
we
have
enough
time,
because
that
presentation
went
with
the
q
a
over
over
an
hour
and
a
half
it's
about
an
hour
and
a
half.
So
I
don't
know
if
the
second,
the
third
presentation,
if
the
folks
are
ready
and
if
it
it
can
be
compacted
into
a
half
hour
or
not
it's
up
to
you.
A
Yeah
we
had
that
we
had
that
on
the
schedule
we
talked
about
it
at
the
last
meeting.
It
was
really
just
to
give
us
an
update
of
like
public
safety
legislation
that
did
and
did
not
pass.
It
wasn't
like
this
big
formal
thing
we
had
actually
designated
about
10
minutes
to
do
it.
I
don't
know
if
that's
something
you
even
want
to
just
like
off
the
cuff.
Do
that
or
wait
till
next
time.
P
Yeah,
no,
I
had
no
idea
that
we
were
gonna
present
on.
I
guess
what
passed
and
what
didn't
pass
and
talking
about.
Why
there's
a
lot
there's
so
many
different,
it's
something
that
I
mean.
There's
lots
of
publications
that
do
that
we
could
certainly
I
mean
I
could
certainly
discuss
it
briefly,
but
it's
really
if
people
have
questions
or
if
there's
something
they
were
particularly
interested
about
interested
in,
we
could
go
into
it.
But
it's
it's
pretty
easy.
I
mean
we
could
quickly
say
sort
of
what
the
package
was.
A
Well,
it's
a
it's
up
to
you
all.
I
think
visually.
It
was
helpful
when
you
all
presented
the
initial
legislation
that
had
numbers
and
that
whether
it
was
in
the
house
or
senate
and
then
where
it
was
at
only
did
a
great
just
update
on
where
things
were
last
time.
So
if
you
want
to
wait
or
you
could
send
it
to
us
via
email,
I
was
just
interested
in
like
not
all
the
ins
and
outs
and
the
political
fun
that
happened
at
the
session.
P
N
So
I
don't
think
they're
necessarily
any
big
announcements
to
make.
You
know
we
can
share
in
writing,
which
bill's,
past
and
potentially
you
know,
monica
I'm
happy
to
work
on
like
how
it
might
impact
the
work
we
do
and
only
pull
out
those
pieces
of
legislation
so
because
I
I
don't
think
we
need
to
go
through
each
each
bill
that
we
had
presented
on
the
first.
N
You
know
a
month
ago,
right,
it'd
just
be
too
cumbersome
so
again,
yeah.
I
think
that
you
know,
as
monica
mentioned,
I
think
the
big
one
that's
sitting
on
the
governor's
desk
is
house
bill,
52
which
decriminalize
the
possession
of
drug
checking
supplies
and
devices,
so
that
people
can
check
for
purity
and
adulterance
in
their
in
their
drugs
and
allows
for
the
distribution,
and
I
think,
that's
really
important
from
a
public
safety
and
public
health
perspective
for
this
group,
and
so
I'm
excited
about
that.
P
Yes,
I
think
that,
what's
going
to
be
interesting
is
really
looking
in
into
the
budget,
because
oftentimes,
what
happens
is
that
the
actual
bill
won't
pass,
but
people
were
able
to
sneak
money
into
the
budget
like,
for
example,
the
crime
victim
reparation
fund
got
a
huge
boost.
I
think
like
over
a
million
bucks,
and
I
believe
that
that's
going
to
be
recurring,
so
there's
different
programs
that
are
going
to
receive
injections
of
funding,
including
and
also
big
time
for
police
police
training.
That's
primarily
state
police,
but
more
of
the
substantive
things
didn't
pass.
P
So
there
was
a
bunch
of
stuff
on
on
training
for
law
enforcement.
I
don't
believe
that
went
through,
but
I
believe
that
it
is
going
through
through
the
budget,
so
there's
not
gonna
necessarily
be
an
expansion
or
any
kind
of
control
over
what
kinds
of
things
they
are
trained
on.
There
will
just
be
more
money
to
be
trained
on
the
things
that
they
are
already
trained
on.
As
emily
mentioned,
there's
house
bill
68.
P
P
The
actual
bill
didn't
pass,
but
the
policy
was
put
into
the
budget,
and
this
was
something
that
the
new
mexico
sentencing
commission
was
also
working
on
so
but
but
we're
trying
to
sort
of
pick
through
that
and
make
sure
that
it
gets
signed.
So
this
is
the
other
thing.
Is
that
we
don't
know:
what's
gonna
actually
make
it
into
the
final
budget?
P
P
P
There
was
a
model,
there's
already
a
model
that
exists
in
albuquerque
which
has
been
operating
since
2020,
but
or
some
something
along
those
lines,
but
it'll
be
interesting
to
see
how
this
money
will
get
allocated
to
different
communities
and
sort
of
what
it's
going
to
look
like,
but
I
can
certainly
pick
through
that
because
that
seems
actually
relevant
to
our
work
and
how
that
could
be
used,
but
any
of
the
other
really
great
stuff.
It
didn't
quite
make
it
through.
P
It
was
a
difficult
year
for
for
a
lot
of
us
and
I'm
happy
to
talk
about
that
more
I
I
would
say
that
you
know
you
know
both
both
our
beloved
city
councilors
here
in
this
task
force
are
going
to
be
accompanying
me
to
go
to
phoenix
to
a
conference
on
fines
and
fees
reform.
I
would
say
that
local
fines
and
fees
reform
is
extremely
important,
since
we
haven't
yet
been
able
to
do
any
major,
comprehensive
reform
on
a
state
level
outside
of
the
juvenile
justice
setting.
P
P
Really,
the
bill
just
gave
children
that
were
sentenced,
sentenced
to
life.
It
would
just
give
them
that
the
option
to
have
a
hearing
it
didn't
release
anybody
all
it
said
is
that
in
15
years
you
could
be
in
front
of
a
board
to
have
a
hearing
to
ask
to
be
released
and
that
that
failed,
so
it
was,
and
and
had
vehement
opposition
by
certain
groups
and
which
was
interesting
because
the
bill
didn't
quite
I'd.
I
don't
feel
like
the
bill
was
that
it's
not
really
that
controversial.
I
O
O
I
think
that,
if
we're
going
to
do
presentations
that
really
are
about
sort
of
what
this
committee
is
tasked
to
do,
which
is
to
really
sort
of
be
innovative
in
our
thinking.
I
think
we
have
to
think
through
our
presentations,
the
timing
and
and
the
breadth
of
q,
a
which
is
great
to
get
all
the
information,
but
I
felt
like
I
was
on
a
public
safety
committee
or
the
city
council
meeting
for
a
second
there,
and
so
we
just
need
to
go
first
next
time
and
we'll
try
to
get
it
done
a
half
hour.
O
O
And
this
is
just
in
part,
because
you
know
we
have
a
community
health
and
public
safety
department
now
and
we,
as
a
committee,
are
tasked
with
thinking
beyond
just
sort
of
straight
law
enforcement
issues.
Right,
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
add
that
there
was
just
a
lot
of
money
with
a
1.6
billion
dollar
surplus,
a
lot
of
money
in
housing.
Families
are
going
to
get
rebates
of
250
or
500.
O
These
are
community
health
and
safety
issues
for
all
of
us
right,
because
people
are
getting
more
monies
and
more
money
in
their
pockets,
more
money
to
agencies,
even
the
department
of
workforce
solutions
got
more
money
this
year,
which
is
great,
which
means
that
they're
going
to
be
able
to
hopefully
do
a
better
job
at
enforcing
weight.
You
know
wage
an
hour
policies
as
well
as
sick
leave.
O
N
I'm
so
glad
marcella.
You
mentioned
that
the
other
piece,
if
you
did
say
this,
I
apologize-
I
didn't
catch
it
in
the
list,
but
the
capping
the
payday
loans
again
like
we
know
that
people
who
are
struggling
financially
end
up
being
further
criminalized
and
engaged
in
our
criminal
legal
system
and
have
poor
health
outcomes.
So
seeing
some
of
those
you
know
there
were
some
really
good
pieces
of
legislation
that
passed
again.
N
I
I
O
I
O
Took
such
a
long
time,
but
obviously
ithaca
I
mean
there,
they
have
a
big
presentation
to
make,
and
so
we
should
give
them
the
time
they
deserve.
So
if
they
say
no,
then
we're
happy
to
go
and
we're
ready.
We
have
our
powerpoint
ready
to
go
we've.
You
know
we
practiced
yesterday
right,
mary,
louise
and
so
so
any
time.
I
Yeah
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
was
out
there
before
before.
You
know
we
promised
anything
or
or
said
anything
else,
so
any
other
questions
or
comments.
I
you
know,
I
don't
think
we
can
do
a
lot
more
in
15
minutes,
I'm
looking
forward
to
the
conference
in
phoenix
with
monica,
and
I
appreciate
you
bringing
that
to
our
attention.
Hopefully
we
can
do
some
great
things
when
we
get
back
and
hopefully
provide
some
information
that
this
committee
can
make
recommendations
to
the
governing
body.
I
P
One
thing
that
I
wanted
to
add
just
as
far
as
the
legislative
session.
Another
really
great
thing
that
was
stripped
out
of
house
bill
68
was
the
creation
of
a
I'll
just
say,
of
a
police
database
for
police
officers
that
have
had
discipline
or
other
type
or
firings
these
sorts
of
things.
This
was
actually
removed,
which
is
pretty
interesting
and,
I
think,
extremely
relevant
to
sort
of
some
of
the
work
that
we're
doing.
P
A
lot
of
the
pushback
has
to
do
with
employment
law,
and
I've
been
thinking
about
this
a
lot
specifically
because
my
mother
is
a
nurse
and
I
was
looking
at
the
board
of
nursing
and
the
board
of
nursing
actually
posts
all
of
their
decisions
that
they
make
against
the
license
same
thing.
For
me
with
my.
This
is
interesting,
though,
because
it
has
to
do
with
a
license
right,
which
sometimes
can
be
a
little
bit
different.
P
But
for
me,
as
a
lawyer,
if
I
get,
if
I
get
reprimanded,
that's
posted
in
the
bar
bulletin
right
and
sent
publicly
to
everybody
that
something
happened.
So
I
think
it's
something
that
you
know
an
opportunity
for
us
to
think
more
to
be
more
innovative
when
we
think
about
police
discipline,
especially
in
a
state
where
often
times,
officers
bounce
from
from
department
to
department.
P
That
and-
and
this
should
be
something
that
police
should
support
right
because
they
don't
want
to
be
considered.
You
know
it,
it
hurts
they're.
You
know
when
you
have
a
good
cop,
it
hurts
their
reputation
when
they're
working
with
somebody
that
you
know
has
been
in
four
different
departments
and
acted
very
poorly.
P
So
it
was
too
bad
that
that
was
removed
and
that
was
removed.
It
seemed
like
by
the
request,
from
the
governor's
office
by
senator
peter
worth
on
the
floor
and
yes
and
and
supported
by
the
rest
of
the
senate
and
the
house.
So
it
wasn't
just
these
people,
but
it's
an
interesting
thing
to
talk
about
about
discipline.
C
I
A
I
A
H
H
So
I
heard
monica
I
heard
you
see
that
we
about
discipline
with
cops
and-
and
I
just
want
to
put
this
out
there
when
renee,
we
asked
you
to
send
questions
to
different
or
different
departments,
and
one
of
my
questions
isn't
what
discipline
looks
like,
because
I
know
that
we
look
at
just
like
you
were
talking
about
monica,
like
I'm
held
to
a
higher
standard.
My
my
stuff
is
pull
pushed
out
there.
H
My
my
biggest
concern
with
my
wearing
my
restorative
justice
hat
is
not
what
discipline
looks
like,
but
how
are
we
responding
to
misbehavior,
and
so
I
want
to
put
that
out
there,
because
you
know
what
we're
not
going
to
change
what's
hid
under
the
rug,
but
we
need
to
know
as
a
task
force
how
things
are
being
responded
to.
What
kind
of
tools
are
are?
What's
the?
What
is
the
the
reparation?
H
I
P
P
I
think
that
the
you
know
the
idea
behind
this
is
to
try
to
stop
those
police
from
continually
being
hired,
because
they're
brutalizing
certain
communities
and
and
then
there
is
no
repercussion-
that's
sort
of
the
whole
thing
right
that
they
just
sort
of
continually
get
passed
around,
but
I
think
it
would
be
amazing
if
there
was
some
sort
of
if
there
was
a
different
process
to
repair
sort
of
how
that
happened.
Right
like
why
did
they
get?
You
know?
Why
did
they
end
up
in
that
particular
place?
P
He
told
me
this
entire
story
that
was
on
the
record,
recorded
and
told
me
sort
of
what
he
learned
from
it
and
he
never
tased
somebody
again
that
was
handcuffed
in
the
station
and
hopefully
that
story
actually
helped
other
officers.
I
really
appreciated
that.
He
did
that
and
it
sounded
like
he
had
changed
some
of
his
ways.
P
So
I
think
that
there
is
some
power
in
people
being
honest
in
doing
that.
But
I
appreciated
that
and
it
also
resulted
in
better
training
for
law
enforcement,
so
I
think,
there's
ways
we
can
figure
out
how
to
do
that.
The
question
is,
you
know:
do
we
have
the
teeth
to
your
point,
mary?
Louise
about
you
know
our
city
counselors.
Do
we
have
the
teeth
to
actually
push
those
policies
so
that
they
become
law
or
they're
there?
We
have
that
sort
of
sustainable
change.
O
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
follow
up.
Thank
you
all
for
that
part
of
it,
and
I,
and
maybe
we
should
do
more
than
30
minutes.
We
were
really
just
planning
on
doing
sort
of
an
introduction
to
the
principles
with
some
really
good
examples
of
what
other
communities
are
doing
and
then
we're
going
to
have
people
come
in
as
a
part
of
panels
from
those
communities
and
in
just
serving
these
incredible
d.a
court
community-led
police
involvement
in
rj
programs.
O
O
So
part
of
what
our
plan
just
to
tease
you
a
little
bit
is
just
what
we
really.
We
were
thinking
about
what
our
own
objectives
were
for
a
half
hour
presentation
and
really
it's
to
provide
our
committee
with
a
common.
You
may
not
agree.
Bruce,
may
not
love
this
as
an
ex-law
enforcement
official,
but
I
suspect
he
will.
I
know
he's
off
now,
but
or
he
at
least
turned
his
camera
off.
O
Is
we
just
wanted
to
provide
a
common
vernacular
for
us
so
that
whenever
we
say
a
restorative
justice,
people
are
understanding
the
breadth
of
programs
that
that
means
the
inner,
multi-disciplinary
and
multi-jurisdictional
approaches
that
that
means
we're
just
trying
to
create
a
common
vocabulary
for
the
approaches
that
when
we
talk
about
transformative
justice,
restorative
justice
and
diversion
programs
that
include
restorative
justice?
So
that's
what
you
guys
can
expect
from
our
presentation.
Maybe.
C
O
A
Well,
we
didn't
do
working
group
updates,
but
I
didn't
I
did
want
to
let
you
know
that
we
have
not
heard
back
from
staff
about
those
questions
yet
and
when
they're
going
to
provide
us
with
answers.
So
that's
still
in
the
works
and
I
will
ping
them
say:
hey
can
you
let
us
know
when
you
think
you
could
get
these
to
us
and
part
of
it's
also
because
they're
in
the
process
of
the
hiring
process
for
the
police
chief.
A
So
just
as
a
reminder,
I
don't
know
if
you
all
participated
in
the
survey,
but
I
would
love
for
you
to
share
that
with
folks.
You
think
would
be
willing
to
share
that.
You
don't
have
it's
anonymous.
There
were
no
there's
a.
The
survey
is
also
in
spanish
and
we
have
not
received
any
spanish
responses
yet
from
what
I
heard
from
staff
recently.
So
I
don't
think
that's
very
good.
However,
I
did
hear
the
community
panels
went
well
the
community
panel
and
then
the
public
safety
related
panel.
A
There
were
two
different
panels:
they
weren't
open
to
the
public,
but
yeah.
I
don't
know
if
anyone
has
anything
to
share
about
that,
but
I
think
that
was
important
and
they've
staff
is
going
to
whittle
it
down
to
the
top
two
or
three
and
then
there'll
be
an
opportunity
for
counselors
to
ask
questions.
I'm
not
sure
when
that's
supposed
to
happen
and
then
there's
some
kind
of
public
engagement
piece.
O
Well,
mary,
louise
and
I
put
that
presentation
together.
That's
our
working
group,
which
is
a
part
of
the
alternative
approaches
section,
but
I
just
wanted
to
add-
and
I
don't
know
monica
if
you
were
a
part
of
the
public
safety
one.
I
didn't
see
you
listed
in
the
paper,
but
I
was
a
part
of
the
community
panel
one
and
all
last
week
we
did-
and
I
just
want
to
share
because
none
of
it's
like
super,
confident
I'm
not
going
to
share
information
about
them.
O
But
I
wanted
to
share
with
you
all
the
process
I
mean
we
was
about
eight
people
who
interviewed
and
we
all
got
to
maybe
ask
one
or
two
questions
in
a
short
amount
of
time,
but
really
kind
of
get
a
sense
of
people.
We
have
their
resumes
their
letter
of
interest.
We
have
to
fill
out
community
survey
or,
like
a
feedback
form
that
we're
going
to
get
to
them
by
the
end
of
this
week
to
kira.
O
I
do
want
to
say
that
our
our
city
manager,
I
guess
who
gets
a
big
new
city
manager
who
gets
a
big
say
and
who
gets
hired.
I
guess
with
the
mayor,
I'm
sat
in
on
every
single
one,
and
I
do
want
to
say
this.
One
of
the
things
that
I
really
appreciated
about
it
was
that
he
is
new
to
the
position
and
I
had
never
met
him
before,
but
he
was
there.
O
I
N
I
just
wanted
to
add
to
the
work
group
conversation
and
it's
more
of
a
question
because
in
our
work
plan
and
our
respective
work
group
plan,
we
are
working
towards
developing
presentations
and
panel
conversations
for
this
group
and
it'd
be
helpful
to
know
what
that
timeline
looks
like
I
had
a
convert,
I'm
starting
to
reach
out
to
folks
to
be
on
the
panel
for
alternative
response
around
traffic,
behavioral
health
and
drug
possession.
I
had
a
conversation
with
local
progress.
I
don't
know
if
folks
know
who
they
are,
but
they
support.
N
They
have
members
all
across
the
country,
usually
electeds,
but
they
put
out
issue
briefs
on
all
kinds
of
issues
and
they
do
have
some
really
interesting
information
around
alternative
responses
that
they're
providing
to
their
members
and
they're
willing
to
come
and
present
to
this
group.
So
just
love
to
know
sort
of.
As
we
start
doing,
some
of
the
you
know
curating
some
of
these
panels.
We
know
what
the
timeline
looks
like
and
then
just
a
reminder.
If
we
can
get
an
update
on
the
community
engagement.
A
N
C
A
Maybe
we
can
have
valeria,
give
us
a
calendar
so
that
we
start
plugging
them
in
and
then
we
can
all
see
it
and
that
we
won't
won't
stray
from
that
unless
some
changes
like
ithaca
decides
not
to
come
the
next
time.
Just
so
you
know
we
we
send
out,
we
sent
out
notes,
saying
hey
we're
having
three
presentations.
If
you
all
thought
that
like
no
way
because
I
was
kind
of
like
yeah
three
presentations
and
it
didn't
work
out,
so
we
just
have
this-
is
our
second
try.
A
I
I
C
C
O
I
I
D
O
J
I
A
O
Ithaca
this
is,
I
think,
what
happened.
Ithaca
is
a
big
presentation
right
and-
and
these
are
the
kinds
of
presentations
we
want.
These
are
the
kinds
of
panel
presentations,
because
it
it
goes
to
sort
of
the
bigger,
innovative
things
that
we're
supposed
to
be
really
thinking
through,
and
so
I
think
it's
going
to
be
hard
to
do
two
presentations
of
that,
like
that
in
one
meeting.
O
P
I
P
C
P
P
Good
yeah,
no,
I
appreciated
him
see,
there's
wonderful
people
that
go
into
law
enforcement.
They
can
do
a
really
good
job
right,
especially
when
they
have.
What
can
I
just
say
this
real
quick?
He
came
from
fire,
so
he
had
a
really
interesting
perspective
that
I
think
was
so
useful,
then
as
being
a
thoughtful
prosecutor
right
like
it's,
these
experiences,
these
real
life
experiences
that
makes
it
so
that
we
can
have
a
safe
community.
I
know
we're
all
over,
but
I
appreciate
that.
Thank
you.
Counselor.
I
A
Good
night,
everyone
and
eight
roommate
renee
monica
and
all
of
you
by
the
way
tomorrow
night,
we
are
getting
input
on
what
we
should
be
budgeting,
like
the
public,
can
weigh
in
about
what
priorities
that
the
budget
should
have
in
it.
So
I'm
gonna
send
it
out
social
media,
but
if
you
could
tell
any
of
your
contacts
that
have
any
interest
in
sharing
perspectives
on
that
for
our
budget
this
year
does.
A
A
We're
waiting
to
marcela
of
what
the
plan
is
for
that.
This
is
specifically
about
the
next
fiscal
year
budget
and
if
there's
things,
if
there's
anything
you
want
to
share
about
in
the
public
realm
about
public
safety
or
any
anything,
that's
related
to
your
jobs
or
your
networks.
People
can
come
at
seven
and
log
on
to
be
heard
from
petitions
from
the
floor
so.
H
H
Say
this
super
exciting.
The
city
is
actually
funding
an
elementary
restorative
justice
person,
and
so
I
would
love
for
you
guys
to
see.
I
was
helping
her
to
do
her
stats,
but
I
think
that
you
would
love
what
our
elementary
person
has
already
done
and
she's
working
at
all
the
schools.
So
you
could
just
imagine
how
we're
overwhelmed.
H
She
does
all
elementary
and
I
do
middle
and
high
school,
but
you
guys
don't
fund
me
you're
only
funding
the
elementary
and
I'm
hoping
that
the
city
will
also
be
funding
a
middle
school
person,
because
that
would
help
me
so
much.
But
I'm
sharing
that
with
you.
So
you
know
how
do
you?
How
does
that
get.
I
H
Yes,
it's
through
julie
and
kira,
so
they
I
you
know
what
it's
the
office
of
student
wellness.
That
does
all
of
that
part.
I
do
all
the
training
like
homeboy
over
here
eli,
but
I
do
the
training
for
our
restorative
justice
people
in
really
building
those
relationships
with
students
so
that
they
feel
a
sense
of
belonging.
H
But
I
want
to
tell
you
our
elementary
restorative
justice
person.
I
just
helped
her
with
a
case
of
kids,
third
graders,
calling
a
black
kid,
the
n-word
and
the
parents
just
really
being
so
lovable
and
allowing
us
to
create
a
safe
space.
So
we
could
have
those
conversations
so
actually,
tomorrow
night,
I'm
actually
going
to
be
facilitating
a
closing
meeting,
because
the
kids
have
already
met,
and
then
we
brought
in
those
that
were
affected
by
the
word
by
the
word,
the
n-word.
H
So
we've
done
those
circles,
but
the
last
part
that
we're
doing
is
bringing
all
of
the
parents
together,
along
with
their
kids,
to
celebrate
their
kids
and
to
allow
the
adults
to
learn
from
the
kids
about
how
these
this
behavior
impacts
us
as
a
whole
and
as
a
community,
so
cool
stuff.
But
I
thank
the
city
for
investing
in
restorative
justice
in
schools.
So
thank
you
guys
for
that.
A
You
should
send,
or
if
you
could,
participate
and
say
that
if
that's
something
else,
we
should
think
about
budgeting
through
the
community
services
division.
So
if
you
want
to
send
me
an
email
to
say
that,
that's
how
you
feel
if
you
can't,
if
you
can't
make
it
to
the
petitions
from
the
floor,
but
I
think
that's
an
important
edition
can.
H
A
H
Absolutely
I'll,
I'm
I'm
gonna,
get
that
to
you
tonight.
Should
I
send
it
to
everybody,
so
you
guys
could
see
what's
happening,
okay,
I'm
gonna!
Send
it.
If
you
don't
want
to
see
it,
don't
open
it,
but
I
think
it's
important
for
you
to
know
that
if
you
have
a
child,
that's
in
the
santa
fe
public
schools
that
we
are
a
resource
and
your
babies
are
our
babies
and
they
need
to
have
a
place
where
they're,
safe,
mentally
physically,
emotionally
and
spiritually
to
have
a
voice.
Just
saying.
O
Renee
and
chris,
can
you
hold
on
a
sec?
I
just
in
in
response
to
that.
The
other
thing
that
julie
just
said
is
that
they
have
a
rfp,
and
so
that
means
that
they
might
have
had
the
money,
but
your
your
counselor
via
real
resolution
in
2017
on
the
sort
of
renewed
sanctuary
policy,
even
though
we
don't
call
it
called
for
a
language.
Just
a
language,
access
assessment
and
four
years
have
passed.
The
pandemic
has
passed,
it's
never
happened
and
julie's
putting
an
rfp
out
for
it.
O
Now
I
don't
know
if
she's
using
money,
that's
already
been
allotted
allocated
to
it
or,
if
she's
doing
it,
trying
to
get
money
for
this
next
year,
but
the
immigration
committee.
We
did
a
whole
set
of
recommendations
on
what
that
language
access
assessment
would
be
a
part
of,
and
so
she
took
that
and
put
it
into
the
rfp.
I'm
not
sure
if
it's
money
that's
already
been
allocated,
although
I
doubt
it,
but
it
could
be
money.
So
I
wanted
to
put
that
on
your
radar
because
part
of
it
I
know
it's
connected
to
this.
A
O
And
it's
so
important,
I
I
think
I'll
I'll
be
happy
to
do
that
and
and
and
counselors
part
of
the
reason
why
I
mean
we
just
lived
through
two.
We
did.
I
think
the
city
did
a
fairly
good
job
on
language
access
around
all
things
pandemic
and
and
the
immigration
committee.
You
know
we
did
a
series
of
facebook
lives
and
the
whole
bit
but
yeah
it
is.
It
is
a
it.
The
pandemic
really
showed
how
absolutely
crucial
it
is
long.