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From YouTube: CRB July 2022 Rough Edit
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A
A
D
D
The
citizens
review
board
members
are
provided
the
investigative
files
in
advance
of
the
meeting.
The
citizens
review
board
will
hear
from
the
Department
whenever
matters
of
importance
or
interests
are
requested
for
review
by
the
board
or
the
department.
The
coordinator
for
the
board
is
Captain
Patrick
Mesmer.
Any
person
who
wishes
to
make
a
complaint
concerning
a
matter
which
may
be
considered
by
the
Professional
Standards
Bureau
should
see
Captain
Mesmer
for
information
on
how
to
file
a
complaint.
A
A
A
D
Comment
rules
are
as
follows:
speakers
will
be
limited
to
three
minutes
of
three
minutes
in
speech,
as
required
by
the
policy
speakers
will
announce
their
full
name
and
address.
This
is
for
the
benefit
of
the
clerk
who's.
Taking
minutes.
Speakers
may
only
speak
once
speakers
may
not
yield
their
time.
Comments
should
be
limited
to
matters
related
to
the
Tampa
Police
Department
comments
should
be
made
not
be
made.
Regarding
ongoing
Professional
Standards
cases,
comments
shall
be
directed
to
the
board
as
a
whole
and
not
to
an
individual
member.
F
Thank
you
and
I
have
a
lot
to
cover
I,
don't
think
three
minutes
is
going
to
do
it,
but
I
will
be
in
the
room
and
if
you
have
questions
about
anything,
I
have
to
say
happy
to
answer
them.
So
let
me
get
to
it
because
I'm
limited
on
time.
First,
the
crime
free
multi-housing
program-
you
do
have
authority
to
investigate
that
and
to
make
recommendations
to
the
chief
of
police
under
Section,
18-8
G6,
and
you
should.
It
was
a
program
that
led
to
hundreds
of
evictions,
it
had
a
disproportionate
impact.
F
91
percent
of
the
evictions
were
African
Americans.
It
was
probably
designed
that
way
by
The
Architects
of
this
program.
It
was
designed
by
a
right-wing
think
tank
in
Arizona
in
the
early
1990s.
How
exactly
was
this
able
to
happen?
How
was
the
police
department
able
to
Institute
this
program
that
that
had
such
an
impact
without
running
it
by
anybody?
You
can
investigate
that.
Look
also
at
their
efforts
to
kind
of
influence
policy
on
city
council
with
relation
to
that
and
make
sure
that
you
can
make
recommendations
to
make
sure
that
that
doesn't
happen
again.
F
What
it
really
brought
me
here,
though,
was
to
the
policy
proposals
that
are
in
front
of
this
board.
I,
don't
know
why
they
were
brought
in
front
of
this
board,
because
this
is
not
a
policy
making
entity.
It's
an
investigative
entity,
but
you
were
asked
at
the
last
meeting
to
vote
on
whether
or
not
to
have
a
quote,
unquote:
full-time
attorney.
Whoever
told
you
that
that
was
what
was
in
front
of
of
city
council
did
not
tell
you
correctly
what's
in
front
of
city
council.
F
Is
a
proposal
to
ask
the
voters
if
they
want
to
change
the
city
Charter
to
allow
that
to
happen,
because
city
council
had
been
told
that
the
charter
didn't
allow
it.
So
it
is
a
voter
referendum,
not
a
decision
that
this
board
is
making,
and
let
me
explain
why
you
would
want
an
independent
attorney.
A
couple
of
weeks
ago,
the
city
settled
the
case
of
the
estate
of
Arthur
Greene
Jr
in
a
lawsuit
arising
out
of
his
death
in
police
custody.
F
Do
you
know
who
defended
that
the
city
attorney's
office,
the
city
attorney's
office,
can't
advise
this
board,
for
instance
on
that
issue
as
to
how
to
go
out
and
get
information
that
might
cause
the
city
to
incur
liability
if
it
were
if
it
were
overturned
if
it
were
turned
up,
because
that
creates
a
conflict
of
interest?
On
the
one
hand,
the
City
attorney
has
to
protect
the
city
from
liability.
This
board's
job
is
to
go
out
and
find
the
truth
whether
it
hurts
or
helps
the
city
liability
wise.
F
Those
missions
can
conflict
and
that's
why
it's
best
practice
and
recommended
by
neck
hole
that
there
be
an
independent
attorney
as
for
subpoena
power,
I
want
to
be
clear.
Subpoenas
cannot
be
issued
to
police
officers,
it's
against
state
law.
Even
if
you
were
given
that
power,
you
couldn't
use
it
for
police
officers.
Here's
what
it's
for
it's
for
if
there
is
a
doorbell
camera
or
a
dashboard
camera
by
a
civilian
who
catches,
footage
of
something
happening,
and
that's
not
in
the
internal
affairs
of
file
Internal
Affairs
file.
How
would
you
ever
see
it?
F
Should
it
turn
on
whether
or
not
that
person
feels
like
giving
it
to
you
or
not?
There
are
people
who
believe
that
backing
the
blue
means
to
protect
people
from
the
protect
police
officers
from
the
consequences
of
their
own
actions.
Should
it
turn
on
whether
or
not
that
person
feels
like
they
want
you
to
see
it
or
not.
F
Let
me
tell
you
who
can
issue
subpoenas
the
human
rights
board,
the
code
enforcement
board,
the
code
enforcement
special
magistrate,
any
I
I'm,
an
attorney
and
I
could
issue
a
subpoena
over
a
scratch
on
a
car
and
how
it
got
there,
but
something
as
important
as
as
the
whether
or
not
the
the
police
have
exceeded
and
abused
The
Authority
given
to
them
to
shoot
and
and
use
Force
against
people
is
not
important
enough
for
a
subpoena.
It's
not
a
believable
argument.
F
So,
but
still
this
is
it's
really
not
a
decision
for
this
board
to
make
you're
being
manipulated
into
into
voting
to
tell
city
council.
Please
don't
ask
the
voters
whether
or
not
they
want
to
vote
on
this.
That's
what
you're
being
asked
to
do.
No
one's
explaining
that
to
you!
So
I
came
here
to
explain
that
to
you.
So
if
you
have
any
questions
I'm
here
to
answer
your
questions,
but
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
those
things
those
things
were
explained
to
you
adequately.
Thank
you.
G
Hi,
my
name
is
David
simenov
I
live
in
Tampa
at
307,
South,
Bungalow,
Park,
Avenue
I
am
also
honored
to
be
the
president
of
the
greater
Tampa
chapter
of
the
ACLU
of
Florida
I'm,
here
to
just
to
share
a
bit
of
information
that
we've
shared
with
the
city
council
and
then
talk
about
what
that
information
means
about
a
year
ago,
the
ACLU
commissions.
We
didn't
do
it
ourselves.
We
commissioned
a
poll
that
asks
people
what
their
thoughts
were
about,
what
the
crb's
power
should
be
and
68
of
the
people
that
we
reached
said
now.
G
This
is
a
representative
sample
done.
You
know,
by
a
polling
agency
agreed
that
the
crb
should
have
access
to
its
own
attorney
so
that
it
does
not
have
to
rely
upon
attorney
on
the
city's
payroll
to
get
legal
advice.
82
percent
said
that,
if
people,
if
the
sorry
82
said
that
they
want
the
people
of
Tampa
to
vote
on
what
powers
the
crb
is
able
to
have
and
74
said
that
the
crb
should
be
able
to
subpoena
information
and
Witnesses
and
I
I
will
hand
this
over
to
the
clerk
after
this.
G
But
the
numbers
are
clear
and
I
think
what
I
want
to
talk
about
is
what
this
means.
I
think
the
people
of
Tampa
trust
you
they're
looking
up
to
you.
They
want
a
degree
of
accountability
and
transparency
and
they
believe
that
you
can
deliver
it.
What
the
people
of
Tampa
are
saying
is
that
we
would
like
to
have
a
referendum.
We
would
like
to
be
able
to
vote
on
giving
you
those
Powers.
G
We
trust
you
to
use
them,
and,
quite
frankly,
those
Powers
would
make
your
ability
to
provide
transparency
and
report
back
to
the
people
of
Tampa,
easier
and
better
and
more
powerful.
So,
what's
going
on
is
that
there
hopefully
will
be
a
voter
referendum.
The
voters
will
decide
whether
or
not
you
all
should
have
more
power
and
authority
to
be
able
to
do
your
job.
G
A
H
Apologies
I
was
led
to
believe
that
that
was
just
a
sign-in
sheet.
I
did
not
actually
submit
for
public
comments.
Okay,
that's
fine!.
J
All
right
so
Jayden
Sherman
I
live
in
Sarasota
Florida.
So
let
me
just
start
by
saying:
may
not
live
in
Tampa,
though
the
issues
in
Tampa
Bay
do
still
affect
me
and
I
wish
to
have
say
in
them
to
better
help.
The
people
in
Tampa
so
I'll
be
talking
about
holding
Tampa
Police
Department
accountable
for
its
actions.
There's
currently
on
the
board.
An
18.5
percent
raise
for
Tampa
Bay
Police
Department.
Currently
they
get
paid
60
to
98
000
for
most
Rank
and
file
officers.
J
Which
is
higher
than
a
lot
of
other
public
servants
like
firefighters,
in
Tampa
Bay.
Now,
firefighters
are
not
in
the
world
as
many
scandals
as
Tampa
Bay
Police
Department
has
been
just
last
year.
There
was
investigations
into
Tampa
Bay,
Police
Department
in
the
use
of
their
police
funds
for
strippers
alcohol
and
gold
teeth
bought
for
the
officers.
They
also
shot
and
shot
a
dog
recently
in
the
attempt
of
arresting
someone
and
refused
to
call
the
veterinarian
to
Aid
the
animal.
J
So
I
do
not
believe
that
an
organization
that
regularly
abuses
its
power
should
receive
that
raise
and
those
funds
can
be
better
used
to
serve
our
community.
Those
funds
could
go
to
creating
housing
that
is
Affordable
to
the
lowest
socioeconomic
status.
Individuals
within
your
community.
It
could
go
to
increasing
public
transit
and
we
demand
that
landlords
within
Tampa
are
not
allowed
to
evict
tenants
over
arrests.
J
A
C
Evening
my
name
is
Peyton
hoey
and
I
live
in
5234
tennis,
court,
Circle,
Temple,
Terrace
and
I
am
a
proud
member
of
the
Tampa
Tenants
Union
tonight.
I
am
here
to
condemn
the
racist
and
backwards
crime-free
multi-housing
program
and
its
impacts
that
continue
to
harm
the
Working
Class
People
here
in
Tampa.
C
So
according
to
the
Tampa
Bay
Times
analysis,
90
of
1100
people
flagged
through
the
program
were
black
and
some
face
evictions
for
crimes
they
didn't
even
convict,
while
Tampa
Police
Department
claimed
the
program
was
made
to
Target
serious
crimes.
Some
renters,
including
entire
families,
who
did
not
commit
any
crimes,
were
evicted
because
a
housemate
had
been
arrested
for
panhandling
and
petty
theft.
This
is
unacceptable
and
blatant.
C
Racism,
tpd
notifies
landlords
for
arrests
that
happen
in
other
parts
of
the
city,
for
a
misdemeanor
arrest
and
for
shoplifting
which
again
have
no
impact
on
the
safety
of
our
neighborhoods.
These
are
Working
Class,
People
struggling
to
keep
up
with
the
rising
cost
of
living
inflation,
and
you
know
economic
hardship.
Yet
on
top
of
this
they
are
burdened
with
housing
and
security
and
evictions.
C
This
program
also
punishes
entire
families
when
a
single
person
allegedly
committed
a
crime,
including
children
and
other
family
members
who
did
not
have
their
names
on
the
lease
this
program
and
its
impacts
are
the
real
threat
to
our
community
landlords
have
already
begun
to
add
terms
to
leases
that
include
arrests
as
a
reason
for
eviction.
This
is
completely
unjust
and
irresponsible
as
it
threatens
the
lives
of
so
many
without
due
process.
C
True,
crime-free
housing
only
exists
when
a
housing
is
a
guaranteed
human
right
and
in
a
society
that
prioritizes
the
health
and
well-being
of
people
and
the
planet
over
profits.
This
wouldn't
put
people
in
the
position
to
resort
to
crime
in
order
to
survive
and
would
truly
protect
us
all.
The
Tampa
Tenants
Union
demands
the
defunding
of
tpd
and
an
introduction
of
a
public
approval
process
in
any
policy
changes
they
make.
C
It
is
the
public
who
will
face
the
brunt
of
their
decisions
and
we
deserve
to
be
heard.
Furthermore,
the
consequences
of
the
program
will
continue
to
damage
our
communities.
If
left
untreated
city
council
needs
to
pass
a
law
and
make
it
illegal
for
landlords
to
evict
tenants
based
on
arrests,
we
encourage
the
citizens
review
board
to
recommend
this
ordinance
to
city
council.
Thank
you.
K
K
K
I
stand
and
speak
for
the
truth
and
I
want
to
just
generally
extend
my
sympathies
and
regards
for
those
who
protect
and
serve
there's
a
lot
of
divisiveness,
it's
being
spread
by
the
excuse
me
I'm,
a
so-called
deep
state,
artificial
divisiveness,
that's
unnecessary,
and
this
needs
to
be
said
that
there
was
a
lot
of
conflict.
It
does
not
need
to
be
because
there
is
an
enemy
that
is
active
at
the
very,
very
top
levels.
K
K
K
With
and
I'm
also
follow
Scientology
and
there's
a
lot
of
there's
a
lot
of
waking
up
in
this.
That's
not
very
good
English
but
I'm,
sorry,
but
there's
a
lot
of
Truth
and
a
lot
of
waking
up
and
a
lot
of
supportive
anti-police
groups
are
taking
advantage
of
this
to
their
own
advantage,
and
this
needs
to
stop.
K
C
My
name
is
Simon
Rowe
I
live
at
9606,
North,
12th,
Street
area
code,
33612
and
I'm
here
to
speak
about
the
power
of
subpoena
I'm.
Speaking
in
support
of
the
citizens
review
board
having
this
power
I
think
it
would
be
help
this
board
be
more
effective
in
you
know,
doing
this
job
and
I
think
if
more
of
the
public
knew
about
the
discussions
going
on
here,
more
people
would
turn
out
and
actually
be
in
support.
C
I
know
there
are
ideas
that,
like
this
82
percent
number
by
the
ACLU
survey,
isn't
enough
evidence
but
I
think
if
the
public
knew,
if
there
was
more
media
reporting
there
would
be.
You
would
see
even
more
support
for
power
subpoena
or
independent
Council,
but
that
was
last
meeting
and
I.
Think
strengthening
the
crb
here
today
would
be
good
for
stopping
programs
in
the
tracks
like
their
crime-free
housing
program,
because
these
things
matter
I
know
Tampa
doesn't
luckily
doesn't
have
some
of
the
more
vile
murder
cases
across
the
country.
C
I
mean,
except
for
Jonas,
Joseph
of
course,
kind
of
like
Jalen
Walker
up
in
Ohio
I
mean
these
cases
do
happen
here.
We
just
downplay
them
and
I
think
it's
important
that
we
raise
awareness
about
them
and
that
they
are
treated
because
the
public
does
know
about
them.
C
The
families
know
about
them
and
they
need
to
have
trust
that
something
can
be
done
and
right
now
that
trust
isn't
being
strengthened.
When
you
know,
crb
can't
do
anything
about
it,
where
it's
treated
as
some
sort
of
Public
Relations
Board
for
the
police
and
not
something
that
earns
the
trust
of
the
community.
You
know
so
honestly.
I
want
to
see
a
citizen's
review
board
that
has
the
power
to
subpoena
and
has
the
power
to
make
positive
changes
for
this
community,
which
is
what
the
crb
should
serve.
In
my
opinion,
thank
you.
A
L
My
name
is
David
Jones
9606,
North,
12th,
Street,
yeah
I'm,
just
speaking
out
against
the
crime-free
multi-housing
program.
This
program
we
saw
affected
1100
people
with
90
of
those
people
being
black.
That's
over
a
thousand
people,
that's
over
a
thousand
Families
First.
These
families
do
have
multiple
people
in
them,
so
that's
well
over
2,
000
folks
being
hit
by
that
crime
free
program,
two
thousand
folks
whose
lives
are
being
changed
by
that
program.
L
L
This
program
be
used,
especially
harsh
at
Robles
park
over
in
East
Tampa,
a
predominantly
black
Nate,
a
predominantly
black
apartment,
complex
in
a
predominantly
black
neighborhood,
and
you
know,
we've
seen
how
that
hurt
those
folks
over
there
and
we're
seeing
how
the
how
like
that
program
has
only
led
to
continue
to
harm
coming
to
those
folks
whether
it
be
through
you
know,
those
folks
getting
kicked
out
in
their
apartment,
complex,
continuing
to
not
be
maintained
by
like
both
HUD
and
Housing
Authority
by
those
folks
being
moved
out
of
their
Apartments
come
December,
who
aren't
being
given
the
right
assistance
because
they
keep
getting
convicted
prematurely
because
of
these
programs
kind
of
echoing
the
last
speaker
on
the
power
to
subpoena.
L
As
far
as
I
know,
this
board
was
made
after
the
biking
wild
black
incident.
That
happened
here
under
a
former
mayor,
Bob
Buckhorn,
where
you
know
we
saw
a
tpd
actively
over
policing
black
folks
on
their
bikes,
and
you
know
the
goal
was
to
prevent
that
from
happening
in
the
future
and
clearly
that
hasn't
happened.
While
we
had
this
renting
wild
black
incident
come
to
light
this
past
year.
L
So
I
do
think
growing,
getting
this
board
a
little
stronger
so
that
they
can
actually
help
out
folks
in
the
community
so
that
they
can.
Actually,
you
know,
make
the
real
change
that
I
know.
Y'all
want
to
make
is
good.
You
know
folks
voted
for
this
board
when
it
first
opened
up
it's.
Why
half
this
board?
What
half
of
this
board
is
appointed
by
city
council?
L
While
we
have
that
NAACP
rep
on
this
board,
because
you
know
we're
expecting
y'all
folks
to
stand
up
for
black
folks,
you
know
who
these
problems
are
facing,
who
are
being
over
police
who
are
needing
this
board
to
you
know,
take
a
stand
to
make
sure
that
what
needs
to
be
done
is
getting
done
so
getting
those
powers
of
subpoena
continuing
the
fight,
so
that
y'all
can
get
the
power
to
more
strongly
investigate
to
the
more
strongly
investigate
time
police.
L
So
the
child
can
get
the
Power
to
make
some
real
change
over
this
policing
system
would
be
swelling.
Something
I
would
like
to
see
personally
yeah.
That's
my
time.
H
Hello,
my
name
is
Alia
abdulkatter
I
live
at
5234
tennis
court,
Circle
I'm,
a
new
resident
of
Tampa
and
I
just
want
to
Echo
what
a
lot
of
other
speakers
have
spoken
about
today
on
the
crime-free
multi-housing
program.
H
You
know,
I
was
really
disappointed
to
hear
about
this.
You
know
with
it
specifically
targeting
black
people
with
90
of
the
100
thousand
and
hundred
people
flagged
in
this
program.
Being
black
I
have
experience
with
a
program,
that's
very
similar
to
that.
It's.
H
Let
me
continue
it's
what
happens
in
Israel,
it's
how
the
Israeli
Army
retaliates
against
Palestinians,
who
you
know
someone
in
the
family
has
committed
a
crime.
Not
only
do
they
evict
the
entire
family,
they
demolish
the
house.
You
know
this
is
a
key
part
of
Israeli
apartheid
in
the
occupied
territories
and
it's
very
disappointing
to
me
to
see
you
know
tpd
sort
of
emulate
that
model.
You
know
it's.
It's
well
known
that
tpd
and
a
lot
of
other
police
departments
in
this
country
train
with
the
IDF.
H
You
know
because
the
IDF
is,
is
an
occupation
Army.
You
know
occupying
a
colonized
people
and
we're
seeing
it
happen
here,
we're
seeing
the
Tampa
Police,
basically
acting
as
an
occupying
Force
against
black
residents
here
in
Tampa,
and
it's
extremely
disappointing
to
see,
especially
when
you
know
tpd
gets
funded
more
year
after
year
after
year,
while
the
very
things
that
trap
people
in
cycles
of
poverty.
H
You
know
a
lack
of
investment
in
education,
a
lack
of
basic
necessities
being
available
and,
being
you
know,
affordable
to
people
like
housing
that
those
kind
of
programs
aren't
prioritized.
Instead,
what
is
prioritized
is
funding
the
police
to
deal
with
the
problems
that
are
created
by
this
broken
system
that
we
have
this.
This
broken
system
that
creates
these
broken
people
that
we
have
to
keep
funding
the
police
to
solve
so
I'm
here
with
the
Tampa
Tenants
Union
and
I'm
here
to
demand
the
defunding
of
tpd,
the
bringing
of
funding
into
social
programs.
H
A
E
Chair
on
Mike
Schmidt,
on
behalf
of
the
city,
attorney's
office
and
I
did
check
our
voicemail.
We
did
get
a
voicemail.
The
voicemail
couldn't
be
played
due
to
the
setup
of
this
where
we're
at
tonight,
but
I
did
have
it
transcribed
and
I
will
let
you
know
what
it
said.
It
was
from
a
Christina
Beeman.
She
is
on
the
CIP,
the
civilian
investigative
panel
with
the
city
of
Miami.
She
called
in
support
of
establishing
the
crb
for
the
City
of
Tampa
Advocates.
E
She
advocates
for
allowing
an
independent
Council
for
the
law
for
Law
Department
to
avoid
potential
conflict.
She
said
crb
May,
uncover
information
that
may
reveal
liability
for
the
city.
She
said
if
a
City
attorney
represents
a
board,
it
would
create
a
conflict
for
them
to
encourage
transparency
involved
in
such
material.
She
advocates
for
subpoena
power.
She
says.
Currently
officers
cannot
be
subpoenaed,
but
Miami
has
found
it
useful
to
you
subpoenas
to
get
surveillance,
camera
material.
E
She
says
most
recently.
She
felt
that
a
subpoena
for
camera
material
was
useful
for
an
officer
is
accused
of
double
dipping
when
he
was
working
both
with
the
city
and
the
private
employer,
and
she
provided
a
phone
number
for
which
she
could
be
reached
at.
That
was
the
only
recorded
comment
that
we
received.
A
A
The
public
comment
portion
of
this
agenda.
We
will
now
continue
I
like
to
applaud
those
who
participate
in
public
comment.
Your
views
and
opinions
to
the
board
we'll
be
taking
into
consideration
I'd
like
to
open
up
the
board
for
anyone
that
would
like
to
make
a
comment
or
statement
or
concern
in
reference
to
the
public
comment
that
we
heard
here
today.
I
will
open
the
floor.
M
Or
may
ask
a
question
to
one
of
the
public
commenters
yeah,
so
that
commentary
is
is
okay,
I
would
like
to
ask
Mr
Shaw
Mr
Shaw.
What
is
the
what's
the
Benchmark
for
validated
signatures?
I'm?
Sorry!
What's
the
Benchmark
for
validated
signatures
to
get
something
onto
the
ballot
for
a
voter's
referendum.
F
Off
the
top
of
my
head,
I
think
it's
10
percent
of
the
amount
of
people
that
voted
on
the
last
election
or
through
the
ordinance
process.
The
charter
allows
for
the
city
council
to
pass
an
ordinance
that
then
places
a
ballot,
a
referendum
question
onto
the
ballot,
which
is
what's
being
discussed.
Okay
and.
D
F
My
knowledge
there's
not
that's
a
very
expensive
process
and
it's
much
less
expensive
than
city
council
voting
to
put
a
question
in
front
of
the
voters
that
82
percent
of
the
voters
want
put
in
front
of
them.
F
Referendum,
there's
a
there's,
a
easy
way
and
a
very,
very
difficult
way.
So
it's
no!
It's
not
the
well.
The
only
way
to
change
the
charter,
the
to
bring
back
to
the
history
of
it.
The
city
council
was
told
by
by
the
city,
attorney's
office
and
I,
don't
think
that
they
were
right
to
be
candid,
but
they
were
told
that
it
is
not
possible
to
give
this
board
subpoena
power,
even
though
the
human
rights
board
has
it
in
the
code
enforcement
board.
F
They
were
also
told
that
an
independent
attorney
wasn't
possible,
even
though
the
human
rights
board
has
an
independent
attorney,
a
part-time,
independent
attorney
by
the
way,
unless
the
the
charter
is
amended
now
I,
don't
think
either
of
those
things
are
correct,
but
that's
what
city
council
was
told,
and
so
when
the
changes
were
made
by
ordinance,
part
of
that
conversation
was
later
on
when
we
have
a
charter
review
Workshop,
we'll
we'll
talk
about
putting
those
in
front
of
the
the
voters.
F
So
there
is
a
much
much
more
difficult
way
to
do
it,
but
so
that
this
isn't
the
only
way
to
do
it.
But
this
is
the
the
path
of
least
resistance.
Okay,
Mr.
M
Shaw
the
code
enforcement
board
and
the
Civil
Rights.
So
what's
the
name
of
The
Other
Board,
the
human
rights
board,
the
human
rights
board,
those
are
investigative
boards
correct
the
the
code
enforcement
is
an
investigation
sure
it
is
yeah
and
that
board
is
an
investigative
but
I,
don't
believe
the
crb
is
an
investigative.
Well,
if.
F
It
isn't,
then
it
should
be.
This
should
be
a
board
that
should
be
able
to
look
not
only
under
the
rocks
that
are
are
looked
under
by
the
Professional
Standards
Bureau,
but
also
should
be
able
to
talk
to
people
that
they
didn't
talk
to
to
look
at
surveillance.
F
That's
why
it's
necessary,
so
whether
you
call
that
investigative
or
not
as
a
okay
of
no
moment
to
me
that
this
board's
purpose
is
to
to
look
at
the
conclusions
reached
by
the
Professional
Standards
Bureau
and
assure
the
public
that
they
can
trust
that
result.
Thank
you,
Mr
Shaw.
Yes,.
N
The
survey
that
you
mentioned
and
let
me
press
it
up
my
my
question
with
as
a
board,
we
were
appointed
by
mayor
and
city
council,
and
so
we
are
citizens
review
board
and
we
should
be
listening
to
what
the
citizens
are
saying.
We
too
have
had
a
survey
to
make
sure
that
we
hear
so
my
question
to
you,
because
I
I
heard
the
comments
here.
I've
heard
the
comments,
otherwise
I've
seen
them
publicly
published
and
there's
a
lot
of
concern
that
this
board
should
have
a
council.
N
They
should
have
subpoena
power
and
and
I
understand.
That's
the
community.
That's
concerned,
I
think
it's
our
role
as
the
board,
with
our
support
staff
from
the
city
to
make
sure
that
not
only
do
we
look
at
it,
but
if
we're
not
pursuing
that
as
was
just
asked,
then
it
would
be
time
for
us
to
give
the
appropriate
education
to
the
citizens,
because
we
represent
citizens
via
the
appointment
by
people
who
elected
those
individuals.
You
did
a
survey.
N
N
F
You
remember,
the
number
is
in
my
email
to
you
off
the
top
of
my
head.
It
was
how
many
590
that
sounds
like
the
right
number
yeah
and
those
were.
Those
were
590
people
who
voted
in
the
2020
election,
and
that
was
that
was
city-wide.
It
was
not
those
weren't
primary
voters
or
those
weren't
voters
in
a
particular
area
that
was
city-wide.
So
those
are
all
voters
and.
I
N
No,
she
was
asking
another
question
and
the
only
other
thing
is
there's
a
a
wealth
of
information.
You
have
on
the
two
issues
that
you
did
mention
and
that
was
the
multi-housing
crime-free
apartment
complex,
and
that
was
something
that
we
formally
mentioned,
and
then
you
also
mentioned
the
independent
Council
and
The
subpoena
power.
N
N
F
I
And
I'm
gonna
read
my
comments
because
I've
spent
a
lot
of
time.
Looking
at
the
information
that
you
sent
us,
but
thank
you
for
wanting
to
be
active
with
us,
because
we've
been
help
we've
been
asking
for
people
to
join
us
for
a
long
time.
We
are
received
a
letter
from
you
and
yes,
I
was
one
of
the
board
members
that
questioned
the
poll.
You
didn't
mention
me
by
name,
but
I
knew
it
was
me.
I
was
not
given
the
information
regarding
who
did
the
poll,
but
regardless
I
would
have
had
the
same
questions.
I
I
personally
read
through
each
question,
with
a
very
small
number
of
people
that
had
no
background
or
little
knowledge
regarding
the
crb
I
actually
received
higher
percentage
on
question
three
four,
five
and
six
of
agree.
But
let
me
be
clear:
these
people
had
no
real
knowledge
of
the
crb
or
what
any
of
this
actually
meant
question
three.
In
my
humble
opinion,
led
the
way
by
stating
the
crb
investigates.
We
do
not
investigate
complaints
of
police
misconduct.
I
You
set
a
stage
there
for
the
rest
of
the
questions.
According
to
the
ordinance,
we
are
tasked
with
reviewing
close
closed
investigations
of
the
internal
investigators
matter
of
importance
or
interest
to
the
public
and
make
recommendations
that
is
in
the
ordinance
the
city
of
Tampa
has
about
400
000
residents
and
you
polled
590.
When
we
did
ours,
we
got
about
600.
It
is
hard
to
pull
people
but
I,
believe
your
questions
were
very
leading
I.
I
My
understanding
is
that
the
changes
are
still
being
workshopped
and
yes,
the
members
of
this
board
should
be
part
of
the
workshop.
All
of
those
interested,
my
question
would
be:
who
is
making
this
proposal
to
make
changes
to
the
Charter
to
the
city
council
and
what
are
they,
whoever
they
may
be
proposing
when
the
executive
order
did
not
pass
for
the
most
part
by
the
city
council
around
May
2021
you,
as
of
the
ACLU,
said
that
the
ACLU
says
the
changes
to
the
crb
are
not
meaningful.
F
I
I
F
F
F
F
F
I
Matt
on
you
know,
pushed
us
to
make
a
decision.
He
advises
us,
he
doesn't
push
us
to
make
decisions,
but
it
would
appear
Mr
Shaw
that
you
have
access
to
the
whole
Charter
proposal
and
you
might
want
to
share
it
with
us.
We
apparently
don't
have
it,
and
the
other
part
that
we've
we've
talked
about
many
times
is
that
you
know
investigations
done
by
internal
affairs.
I
If
there
is
any
indication
that
there
is
during
the
investigation,
if
there
is
any
conflict,
you
know
there
are
other
agencies
that
can
get
involved
with
the
police
department
about
specifically
the
FDLE.
They
can
get
involved
in
any
of
this,
and
I
will
I
would
just
say
to
you
that
I've
been
on
this
board
from
its
Inception
and
I,
have
never
and
I
mean
never
ask
anyone
at
the
police
department
or
the
attorney's
office
for
information
that
I
did
not
receive
I'm.
I
Speaking
for
myself,
I'm,
not
speaking
for
the
board,
there
are
members
on
this
board.
Who've
been
on
the
board
from
the
very
beginning,
just
like
I
have
but
I
would
ask
you
to
look
at
your
question
and
honestly
tell
me
that
if
I
read
a
question
to
you
that
said,
the
Tampa
citizens
review
board
investigates
complaints
of
police
misconduct
and
then
you
go
on
with
the
other
questions.
What
would
you
think
I.
F
I
I
I
Have
to
turn
up
our
company?
Well,
that's.
How
would
I
know
Susie
Smith
had
a
video,
I
wouldn't,
but
I
would
ask
you
to
go
back
to
this
question
because
you
sort
of
skirted
around
it.
I
A
And
just
to
concur
with
Miss
guy,
as
displayed
in
the
minutes.
Emotion
was
made
by
Miss
guy
second
by
Mr
Irvin,
to
continue
with
the
current
ordinance
and
not
implement
the
change
of
having
independent
counsel.
The
motion
did
carry
6-2
with
Collins
and
Valdez
voting,
no
in
the
absence
of
Mr
Banks
Reverend
Banks,
so
just
to
concur
with
the
minutes.
The
only
motion
that
was
tabled
was
the
motion
of
the
discussion
of
having
the
ability
of
issuing
subpoena
power.
A
And
that
discussion
will
be
held
here
tonight
and
that
was
a
four
to
four
vote
as
well.
So
we'll
continue
with
the
agenda
as
any
other
board
members
that
would
like
to
respond
in
reference
to
the
public
comment
that
we
heard
here
tonight,
Mr
Valdez.
O
Good
evening,
I
don't
have
a
question
per
se,
but
I
just
wanted
to
thank
everybody
that
came
out
to
talk
to
us
and
Mr
schaaf,
putting
you
the
information
and
emailing
it
to
us
in
a
timely
manner.
So
again,
I
appreciate
you
all
for
coming
out,
and
this
is
our
first
meeting
out
in
the
communities.
Thank
you
for
everybody
that
made
this
happen.
I
know
it
was
a
lot
of
work
in
the
Sydney
Park
to
get
everyone
out
here
and
televising
whatnot.
So
thank
you
all
foreign.
A
Item
six
on
the
agenda,
we
would
now
move
with
the
agenda
to
items
to
be
reviewed.
A
A
N
As
we
as
we
prepare
to
review
this
case,
I
just
want
to
ask
a
question.
I've
asked
this
question:
it's
a
second
time,
Avast
it
with
the
case.
This
is
a
case
where
the
students
came
to
about
three
meetings
back
to
back
and
asked,
and
we
indicated
to
them
that
we
could
not
respond
to
this
case
because
it
had
not
been
a
decision
had
not
been
made
and
once
the
decision
was
made,
they
would
be
notified
so
that
they
would
be
at
the
meeting
when
the
presentation
was
made.
N
My
then
question
and
I
saw
this
when
I
kind
of
got
in
the
depth
of
the
case
and
I'm.
Sorry
that
I
didn't
take
the
time,
but
I
just
assumed
that
they
have
been
notified
so
have
they?
Are
we
still
following
that
protocol?
Will
we
promised
the
public
that
we
would
notify
them
when
a
case
come
up
and
were
they
notified
of
this
case?.
P
Remember
kamaria
Pettis
Michael
from
the
city
attorney's
office.
I
was
not
aware
that
citizens
came
before
and
made
public
comments
on
this
particular
case,
so
the
agenda
was
posted
and
made
available.
P
I
did
not
particularly
notify
anyone,
because
I
wasn't
aware
that
there
was
someone.
There
was
public
comment
previously
on
this
case,
so
but.
N
Going
to
say
this
now
for
the
board,
thank
you
attorney.
If
we
say
to
the
community
we're
going
to
do
something
we
need
to
do
it,
we
were
the
one
decided
that
they
too
would
be
notified.
A
previous
case
came
up
like
this
and
we
pulled
it
because
the
individual
had
not
been
notified.
We
notified
that
individual
and
they
was
at
the
meeting
and
it
was
presented
I'm
not
indicating,
but
our
current
counselor
here
was
not
here
when
that
was
made,
and
we
may
too
have
forgotten
it.
N
When
we
pulled
the
case
I'm
just
concerned,
because
these
was
the
students
I
know
they
were
USF,
they
may
not
even
be
in
Tampa
anymore,
but
they
was
relatives
and
they
came
about
three
months
in
a
row
and
no
two
months.
They
came
up
and
they
mentioned
this
case,
and
we
said
that
once
a
finding
was
made
that
we
would
come
back
and
I
agree
with
it.
The
the
agenda
being
noticed.
N
I
wish
I
had
kind
of
kind
of
picked
up
that
deadly
force
case
even
earlier
myself
when
I
was
reading
it,
but
I
was
reading
so
much
this
past
month
of
what
we
had
I'm
sorry
that
I
missed
it
and
if
we're
going
to
present
it
tonight,
I
want
to
publicly
apologize
now
to
those
individuals
they
may
not
even
be
in
Tampa
anymore.
N
They
may
be
gone,
but
if
that's
what
we're
going
to
do,
we
need
to
find
a
way
to
tag
these
cases
so
that
when
they
do
come
up
and
we've
asked
that
this
be
done.
So
when
the
cases
come
up,
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we're
notifying
them
and
if
I
am
wrong,
I
stand
to
be
corrected.
I
would
ask
board
members
that
were
on
the
board
at
that
time,
if
I'm
mistaken
it
to
please
correct
me
now.
A
Just
to
concur
with
Dr
Collins
that
statement
is
correct.
I
had
this
particular
case
on
my
radar,
and
that
was
one
of
the
reasons
why
I
selected
it
because
it
was
completed
and
as
far
as
the
investigation,
that's
one
of
the
reasons
I
pulled
it
I
could
had
advised
our
new
Council
of
the
arrangement.
However
I
also
expected.
A
What's
this
case
was
part
of
our
selection,
the
the
comments
and
statements
that
we
that
we
put
forth
in
reference
to
the
community
to
have
them
present
would
have
been
done
so,
but
since
then,
we
have
changed,
counts
I
think
it
was
Mr.
Shaw
was
representing
us
at
that
time.
If
not
mistaken.
However,
we
do
have
this
case
on
our
agenda
tonight.
It's
up
to
the
board
members
where
we
would
like
to
continue
or
continue
with
our
earlier
commitment
I'll
leave
that
open
to
the
board.
I
Do
we
know
so
I
mean
I
can
go
back
on
my
minutes,
but
do
we
know
who
the
names
of
the
people
that
were
I?
You
know
it's
been
several
months
ago?
Would
we
have
a
way
of
knowing
who
they
were
I
mean
it?
That
would
be
I
mean
it
would
be
a
reason
to
postpone
it
if
we
know
who
they
are,
but
if
we
can't
determine
who
those
who
the
public
knows,
the
public
speakers
were.
A
Do
we
log
the
public
comment,
sign-in
sheets?
E
Individuals
most
likely
on
the
minutes,
it's
on
it
most
likely
is
on
the
minutes
and,
as
you
know,
the
crb
meetings
at
Old,
City
Hall,
would
have
been
recorded.
So
I
think
you
could
go
I
think
there's
a
way
to
identify.
N
N
It
gave
me
more
insight
than
what
we
got
with
them
when
they
came
because
we
couldn't
speak
to
them,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
maybe
we
need
to
assist
and
making
sure
they
want
a
case
like
this
come
up
and
I,
don't
know
how
many
other
ones
we
have,
but
this
one
as
soon
as
I
saw
it
I,
remember
the
case
and
yeah
so
I'm
not
saying
Mr
chair
to
hold
it
up
and
I'm,
not
even
asking
the
board.
A
I
agree
any
other
board
members
wish
to
make
a
statement
or
concern
in
reference
to
this
case
being
heard,
I
mean
being
reviewed
tonight
or
table
in
this
case
to
the
next
month.
If
we
can
get
a
notification,
the
chair
is
open.
If
not,
we
will
continue
with
the
agenda
here
in
Continental
Messmer.
Please
continue.
Thank.
Q
You
again
Catherine
Patrick
Messmer
Tampa,
Police,
Professional,
Standards
Bureau,
so
this
case
we're
reviewing
tonight.
It
was
a
officer-involved
shooting
that
occurred
back
on
February
10
2018..
Q
We
had
a
group
of
officers
who
responded
to
addressing
our
our
district
2
area
on
Marvey
Avenue,
the
9-1-1
callers
advise
that
a
family
member
who
had
a
machete
had
been
threatening
family
members
chasing
them
around.
Our
officers
arrived.
The
most
of
the
family
members
had
already
left
the
residence
the
individual
who
had
the
machete
a
Mr
Richardson.
He
had
fled
back
into
the
residence
with
his
niece.
Our
officers
were
able
to
obtain
a
spare
key
to
the
house
and
they
were
able
to
gain
entry
into
the
house.
Q
Officers
made
entry
into
the
residence
and
they
were
attempting
to
establish
a
dialogue
with
Mr
Richardson,
who
had
locked
himself
in
a
bedroom
with
the
teenage
niece
Mr
Richardson
was
not
engaging
in
any
dialogue.
The
niece
was
not
engaged
in
any
dialogue.
The
officers
felt
that
there
was
a
very
good
potential
at
that
point
that
maybe
she
had
been
stabbed.
They
felt
in
fear
for
her
life,
so
they
decided
to
breach
the
door
of
the
bed
room
after
they
were
unsuccessful
in
establishing
dialogue
with
them.
Q
At
the
point
that
the
door
was
breached,
the
Mr
Richardson
was
able
to
see
the
officers
he
began
to
raise
the
machete
over
his
head
and
what
was
described
as
a
as
a
fighting
stance,
a
combat
stance
and
he
started
to
approach
the
officers.
One
of
our
officers
attempted
to
use
the
taser
on
Mr
Richardson.
The
taser
was
ineffective.
It
only
struck
him
with
one
probe.
You
need
to
have
two
probes
actually
hit
to
be
effective,
so
the
taser
was
not
effective.
Q
He
kept
approaching
the
officers
with
the
machete
over
his
head
in
a
threatening
position
at
what
point
one
of
our
officers
fired
rounds
from
the
firearm,
which
caused
Mr
Richardson's
death.
So
the
detectives
responded
out
there.
They
interviewed
the
responding
officers,
the
family
members
on
the
scene.
The
state
attorney's
office
also
responded
out
there
to
conduct
their
joint
investigation,
and
that
was
let's
see
about
two
weeks
after
that,
the
state
attorney's
office
wrote
a
clearance
letter.
Q
State
Attorney
Warren
advised
that
after
the
office's
review,
they
determined
that
the
actions
of
our
officer
were
Justified
under
the
relevant
facts
of
the
law
and
no
criminal
charges
should
be
filed
and
the
disposition
letter
of
the
the
case
was
written
by
Captain
Flynn,
who
is
now
retired.
She
also
found
no
violation
of
the
department
policy
or
procedure
in
reference
to
this
unfortunate
incident.
A
So
did
Mr
Richardson
have
any
prior
violent
crimes.
A
And
what
is
the
necessary
training
and
what
is
the
necessary
team
would
come
out
to
respond
to
an
individual
in
a
possible
violence
situation,
a
possible
hostage
situation
that
has
mental
illness.
I
know
a
few.
We
had
a
few
presentation
in
reference
to
autism
and
things
of
that
nature.
What
is
the
training?
What
is
the
protocol
in
reference
to
receiving
a
call
on
9-1-1
prior
to
responding
that
this
individual
had
mental
illness?
Well,.
Q
And
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
different
question,
because
in
a
situation
like
this,
this
really
the
only
difference
between
this
and
a
and
a
gun
is
really
the
weapon.
So
this
would
be
looked
at
as
an
act
of
like
an
active
shooter.
It's
a
potential
act
of
violence
incident.
This
is
somebody
who
is
threatening
people
with
a
deadly
weapon
and
who
has
barricaded
themselves
with
a
deadly
weapon
and
a
hostage,
and
if
there
is
time
and
if
it's
a
person
in
crisis
by
themselves,
you
know
even
if
they're,
armed
with
a
weapon.
Q
If
there's
nobody
else
in
danger,
you
know
it's
a
much
different
situation,
so
we
do
have
a
behavioral
health
unit
that
will
they're
specifically
trained
to
deal
with
people
in
crisis,
they're
specifically
trained
to
they
have
co-responders
and
and
address
people
in
mental
illness
and
in
crisis.
But
when
you're
talking
about
somebody
who
has
a
weapon
and
is
actually
swinging
that
weapon
at
people
trying
to
hurt
them,
that
is
going
to
be
a
police
response
to
somebody
with
a
weapon.
You
know
we.
Q
We
talk
a
lot
about
active
Shooters
and
schools
and
workplaces
and
things
pretty
much.
All
of
them
have
mental
illness,
but
those
active
Shooters
still
need
to
be
met
with
deadly
force.
So
in
this
situation
the
only
reason
that
the
that
the
door
was
breached
was
because
there
was
just
no
dialogue.
You
know
these
officers
tried
for
a
couple
minutes
to
establish
dialogue.
Hey
are
you,
okay,
tell
us
you're,
okay,
come
out,
I
mean
if
they
had
said
something
to
to.
Let
them
know
that
they
were
okay.
Q
The
officers
probably
would
not
have
breached
that
door
and
would
have
engaged
in
that
dialogue
that
we
would
call
out
the
crisis
negotiation
team
and
we
would
have
engaged
in
dialogue
with
them.
You
know
indefinitely,
but
you
can
only
engage
in
dialogue
so
long
without
getting
a
response,
and
you
have
to
assume
if
you're
not
getting
any
response
that
person
you
know
could
have,
he
could
have
killed
his
niece
and
she
could
have
been
lying
there.
Q
You
know
seriously
injured
or
dead
bleeding
out
on
the
floor,
and
the
officers
have
to
go
in
there
and
and
try
to
render
Aid
to
them.
So
if
there
had
been
dialogue,
you
know
there
might
have
been
a
different
outcome
to
this,
but
at
some
point,
when
you
have
a
situation
like
this-
and
you
have,
you
know
an
innocent
person
in
danger
and
somebody
who's
known
to
have
a
weapon
and
was
been
trying
to
use
that
weapon
on
people
at
a
certain
point.
Q
You
just
have
to
make
entry
to
make
sure
those
people
are
okay
and
at
the
point
in
this
case,
when
they
made
entry,
that's
when
he
came
with
the
officers
with
the
weapons.
So
that's
that
that's
kind
of
the
difference
between
a
situation
where
you
actually
have
somebody
armed
with
a
weapon
making
threats
against
somebody
else.
Then
a
typical
9-1-1
call
of
a
person
in
crisis-
and
you
know
we
might
have
some
more
time
to
to
back
out
and
engage
in
dialogue.
Q
You
know
if
that
person
is
receptive
to
dialogue,
so
I
mean
in
a
situation
like
this,
where
we
have
someone
who's
calling
9-1-1,
because
they
have
a
family
member
swing,
a
machete
at
people
and
taking
hostages
that
that's
going
to
be
a
tip,
a
normal
Patrol
response.
You
know
anybody
else
who
would
be
able
to
to
get
up.
There
would
get
up
there
as
well,
but
that's
considered
a
one
of
the
highest
priority
calls
we
can
go
to
because,
regardless
of
the
mental
illness,
that
person
with
the
knife
can
still
kill.
Somebody.
M
Captain
Messmer
there
was
a
reference
to
a
visit
that
Mr
Richardson
paid
the
night
before
to
the
to
the
district
2
office.
Yes,
where
the
officer
who
took
Mr
Richardson
outside
to
speak
to
him
said
that
he
evaluated
him
for
possible
involuntary
ba-52,
which
I
assume
is
a
Baker
Act
correct
and
that
he
determined
that
he
was
not
a
danger
to
himself
or
others
at
the
time.
So,
if
you
could
just
speak
to
the
kind
of
training
that
our
officers
receive
in
determining
whether
whether
a
Baker
Act
is
warranted.
Q
Sure
they
all
receive
training,
there's,
there's
training
for
USF
about
Baker
actors,
additional
Crisis,
Intervention
training
that
officers
are
receiving
involving
Baker
acts,
I
mean
it's
a
it's
a
pretty
large
mental
illness
Block
in
the
police
academy.
There's
additional
training
after
that,
and
our
our
holdover
program
about
Baker
acts
so
they're
they
receive
I,
would
say
at
least
80
to
100
hours
of
training.
If
not
more,
you
know
on
not
only
Baker
Act,
specifically
but
mental
illness
and
a
bigger
Act
is
a
very,
very
strict
criteria.
Q
You
know
they
have
to
be
an
immediate
danger
to
themselves
or
someone
else
or
suffering
from
self-neglect.
So
you
know
that
that
call
that
was
referenced,
I
believe
he
came
to
the
district
because
he
was
questioning
the
living
conditions
of
a
house
that
that
they
were
living
in.
He
was
not
armed.
He
he
didn't
want
to
harm
anybody.
He
didn't
want
to
harm
anybody
else,
so
there
was
really
nothing
at
that
point
to
lead
them
to
believe
that
he
should
be
Baker
acted.
They
did
have
some
concerns
about
his
mental
health.
Q
He
did
seem
like
he
probably
had
mental
problems.
I
believe
they
offered
to
take
him
to
the
VA,
because
he
mentioned
that
there
was
no
immediate
concern.
There
was
no
immediate
concern.
They
obviously
saw
the
mental
the
mental
issues
they
offered
him
voluntary
treatment.
He
declined
it
there's
a
lot
of
people
out
there
who
have
mental
health
issues,
but
unless
they
are
a
danger
and
immediate
danger
to
themselves
somebody
else,
we
can't
just
force
everybody
with
mental
health
issues
into
into
involuntary
treatment.
Thank.
M
You
now
just
getting
to
the
to
the
night
in
question.
The
the
officers
arrived
right
before
seven
o'clock
in
the
evening,
so
the
sun
had
already
set
it's
pretty
dark.
I
just
want
to
establish
that
they
had
a
clear
view
of
what
was
happening
inside
the
home.
So
can
we
assume
or
do
we
know
in
fact
that
the
lights
were
on
in
the
home?
The
lights
were
on
in
the
bedroom
that
the
officers
approached
with
Mr
Richardson
and
his
niece,
so
were
the
lights
on?
Q
Q
M
Q
M
Q
D
I
want
to
drill
down
a
little
bit.
Excuse
me:
I,
want
to
drill
down
a
little
bit
on
on
what
my
esteemed
member
Mr
Tamayo
was
talking
about.
With
regards
to
him
coming
to
the
district
and
Reporting
coming
asking
for
help
for
his
I
believe
his
son,
he
was
concerned
about
the
safety
of
his
son.
One
of
the
things
that
I
noted
in
the
statement
was.
He
asked
he
specifically
asked
for
another
veteran
and,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
he
asked
for
another
Marine
veteran.
Is
that
correct?
Yes,
right
was
a
police
officer
Ramos.
D
Good
and
then,
if
I'm
not
mistaken
in
the
statements,
I
believe
it
was
the
day
prior
or
the
evening
prior,
he
had
an
incident
at
his
house
which
resulted
in
his
cousin
going
to
his
house
to
pick
him
up
and
then,
when
he
was
there,
police
were
also
there
because
I
guess
there
was
a
situation
where
the
decedent
and
the
cousin
I
can't
recall
his
name,
but
he
went
ahead
and
he
picked
him
up
and
he
brought
him
to
his
house
for
for
safe
keeping
and
to
basically
watch
over
him.
Is
that
correct?
D
D
He
probably
had
PTSD
and
I
believe
in
one
statement.
I
read.
They
said
that
he
had
flashbacks,
so
this
was
kind
of
known
amongst
at
least
several
of
the
officers.
D
What
I
didn't
see
and
I
could
be
wrong
and
if
I'm
wrong,
please
any
of
the
members
or
yourself
cap
messenger,
correct
me.
What
I
didn't
see
was
the
actual
the
shooter
I
believe
his
police
officer
Hernandez,
the
shooter
I,
don't
believe
he
was
told
or
advised
before
he
breached
that
that
was
a
a
combat
veteran,
a
Marine
Corps
veteran.
That
was
on
the
other
side
of
that
door.
I
believe
what
he
was
told
was
there's
a
person
in
there
dangerous,
possibly
mental
illness
and
with
a
machete.
Q
D
Okay,
okay,
that
wasn't
I,
read
it
I,
read
it
a
few
times
I.
Maybe
it's
a
Nuance
that
I
didn't
pick
up
myself.
So
if
that's
the
case,
then
I
apologize,
but
it
was
clear
to
me
from
the
statements
that
it
was
explicitly
stated
from
several
statements
that
he
was
a
veteran
a
Marine
Corps
veteran
had,
you
know
possibly
had
PTSD,
possibly
at
flashbacks,
so
it
didn't
intuitively
jump
out
at
me.
I
guess
the
point
I'm
making
or
the
question
I
want
to
ask.
D
You
is
if
Hernandez,
police
officer,
Hernandez
or
any
officer
in
the
position
that
he
was
in
if
he
would
have
known
definitively,
that
that
was
a
combat
veteran
on
the
other
side,
possibly
with
PTSD
on
going
through
that
condition.
What
if
any
difference
in
his
behavior
in
his
in
the
procedures
being
taken,
would
have
been
taken?
Or
would
he
have
done
the
same
thing
that
he
did.
Q
Q
So
you
know-
and
it's
this
specific
case
I-
don't
think
it
would
have
made
any
difference
one
way
or
the
other.
They
did
have
a
shield,
so
I
mean
they.
They
did
take
whatever
precautions.
They
thought
that
they
needed
to
take
to
go
in
there
safely.
But
you
know
in
certain
situations
if
a
veteran's
involved-
and
we
know
that
that
person
had
has
a
lot
of
firearms.
Q
You
know
that
may
be
approached
from
a
different
tactical
level,
but
again
if
we
think
somebody
is
inside
seriously
injured
or
dead,
we're
going
to
to
force
entry
and
we're
just
going
to
do
what
needs
to
be
done
to
go
in
there
and-
and
you
know,
ensure
they're.
Okay,.
D
During
this
scenario,
when
this
happened
basically
and
I'm
asking
this
was
basically
an
assault
or
a
breach
force
that
went
in
for
the
most
part,
you
didn't
have
any
other
service.
What
we
call
in
the
military
service
support
capabilities
like
any
sort
of
like
mental
health
professionals
or
counselors,
or
anything
like
that.
That
was
augmenting.
This
team,
based
on
the
situation
that
was
reported,
that
you
have
a
person
who's,
possibly
mentally
ill
or
even
a
combat
veteran,
with
possibly
PTSD
right.
Q
There
was
a
we
had
already
called
for
the
negotiators.
There
were
negotiators
on
the
way,
the
lieutenant
who
was
on
scene
again
because
they
made
so
many
attempts
to
begin
dialogue,
and
there
was
no
dialogue.
It
became
a
force
and
breach
situation
because
they
had
to
go
in
there
and
check
to
see
if
the
niece
was
okay
because
they
had
a
well-found
belief
that
that
she
could
be
seriously
injured
on
the
ground.
Q
D
I
just
thought
of
this
question
because
of
another
point
that
I
want
to
make,
and
that
is:
do
you
recall
because
I
don't
do
you
recall
in
any
of
the
statements
if
any
of
the
police
officers
spoke
with
the
young
17
year
old,
that
was
being
held
hostage
basically
asking
her?
Is
she
is
okay
or
she's
being
threatened
or
if
she
feels
threatened?
Do
you
recall,
after.
Q
D
The
indications
are
there
at
least
to
somebody
like
me
reading
this
that
he
was
not,
he
was
not
threatening
her.
The
indications
are
his
physical
demeanor
was
he
was
looking
at
the
breach
Force.
So
that's
why
I
was
really
curious
as
to
if
there
was
any
other
indication
that
I
missed
on
the
female.
If
she
yelled
out
to
to
the
police,
saying
that
she
felt
threatened
because
I
didn't
I
didn't
see
it
I
didn't
read
it
no.
Q
I
mean
in
in
the
statement
which
is
in
the
report
I'm
talking
about
Sydney
Marshall
statement.
She
was
scared
and
asked
to
leave,
but
Sydney
wouldn't
allow
her
to
leave.
So
she
did.
She
did
say
at
one
point
that
she
was
scared
of
him,
but
again
if
she
had
if
she
had
spoken
up,
if
he
had
spoken
up,
they
never
would
have
breached
that
door,
but
she
didn't.
We
didn't
know
that
at
that
point,
that
she
was
okay.
She
she
wasn't
speaking
so
we
is,
she
okay,
we
couldn't
see
through
the
door.
Q
D
N
Thank
you.
I
just
have
a
couple
of
questions.
I
think
you
just
hit
my
last
one
with
where
my
first
questions
was.
Yes,
he
it
was
mentioned.
Ptsd
I
thought,
I'd
sell
somewhere
in
there,
where
they
was
questioning
his
family,
whether
or
not
he
had
taken
his
medication
that
day
and
the
niece
actually
addressed.
N
She
was
scared
at
one
point
and
that
his
behavior
was
worse
than
she
had
seen
it
that
he
has
had
that
kind
of
behavior
before
but
I
think
even
she
referenced
that
his
behavior
was
somewhat
frightening
again,
as
stated
she
has
to
get
out
and
he
wouldn't
let
her
go
out
the
door,
but
she
never
responded
when
they
kept
from
what
we
saw
in
the
report
when
they
kept
asking.
She
did
not
respond.
Nor
did
he
respond.
N
The
family
we
I,
didn't
see
as
much,
but
the
family
was
all
out
on
the
porch.
They
were
I
guess
he
had
locked
them
out
and
they
were
locked
out,
but
they
had
the
keys
and
that's
how
they
gave
the
officers
the
keys
to
get
back
in
in
the
house.
But
even
the
family
was
concerned
because,
apparently
he
he
had
waved
the
machete
at
a
couple
of
family
members
and
after
he
was
hitting
on
the
table
with
the
things
of
that
nature,
so
apparently
whether
he
was
off
his
medicine.
N
She
talked
about
him
talking,
you
know
out
of
his
head,
like
she
hadn't
heard
him
talk
before
that
he
was
talking
about.
The
Marines
was
coming
that
somebody
was
going
to
attack
her
Etc
listening
to
her
say
that
the
family
members
that
came
before
us
at
the
crb
meeting
in
the
city
hall,
which
I
think
was
probably
over
a
year
ago,
it
was
right
after
it
happened,
so
it
had
to
be
if
this
was
in
18
2018.
This
had
to
be
maybe
shortly
after
that
they
came.
N
They
gave
us
a
story
that
is
very
similar
to
what
we
see
here,
but
they
told
us
the
niece
was
in
the
room
without
giving
the
details.
This
to
me
was
more
eye-opening
I,
whether
the
family
who
came,
and
we
found
out
who
they
were.
We
sent
them
this
to.
Let
them
know,
there's
a
disposition,
but
I
think
that
the
focus
of
the
officers
that
day
was
for
that
young
lady.
N
Q
Yes
and
you're
correct,
that
was
their
thought.
Their
thought
was
the
niece.
You
know
if
he
was
in
there
by
himself
with
a
machete.
We
would
have
been
there
all
night.
You
know
talking
talking
to
an
empty
room
and
at
some
point
we
would
have
used
another
method
other
than
sending
officers
in
to
get
into
the
door
and
see
if
he
was
okay
or
if
he
had
taken
his
own
life.
But
it's
different
when
you
have
a
potential
hostage.
O
Q
Specifically
to
the
Baker
Act
I
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
that
we
have
a
course
on
the
Baker
Act.
The
baker
acts
incorporated
into
our
40-hour
critical
intervention.
Training
are
I,
think
a
16-hour
training
on
other
mental
health
conditions.
We
have
additional
training,
that's
provided
by
Gracepoint
about
10
hours
and
then
the
Academy
I
believe
there's
30
35
to
40
hours,
also,
but
I
mean
specifically
Baker
Act
Baker
Act
is
included
in
all
of
those
blocks,
but
there's
not
a
specific.
You
know:
Baker
Act,
training.
O
Block
is
there
ongoing
training
throughout
the
year,
as
it
relates
to
Baker
acts
of
mental
health?
Yes,
I'm
a
bit
disappointed
in
the
fact
that
you
know
the
officers
responded
to
or
not
the
officers
the
the
he
went
to
the
station
the
day
before
and
not
much
was
done
to
be
able
to
address
the
red
flags
that
we're
presenting
at
that
time.
O
I
know
from
past
experience
with
the
population
and
the
work
that
I
do
when
I've
called
for
Baker
acts,
we've
gotten
no
response
in
the
sense
of
okay,
we'll
go
and
check
out
the
scene,
but
because
that
you've
had
that
present
time
that
the
officer
is
there
they're,
not
a
a
threat
to
themselves
or
any
other
adult
they
won't
take
them
into
custody,
to
transport
them
to
a
baker
act.
O
So
I
really
want
to
make
sure
that
the
department
that
moving
forward
and
from
this
instance
they
can
shed
more
light
and
more
training
and
discussion
around
mental
health
and
and
issues
such
as
what
we
see
here,
because
this
could
have
been
a
tragedy
that
could
have
been
prevented
if
that
gentleman
was
taken
to
custody
for
Baker
Act.
The
night
before
so
again,
more
so
a
common
that
I
would
like
to
see
more
training
in
place
of
this
magnitude
for
our
officers
as
it
relates
to
Baker
acts
and
mental
health.
Well,.
Q
Unless
the
statements
that
the
officers
wrote
are
incorrect,
there
would
have
been
no
legal
basis
to
Baker
active
the
night.
Before
so
I
mean
we
can
look
at
it
in
hindsight
and
say
that
yeah,
if
we
had
Baker
acted
him
the
night
before,
maybe
the
situation
would
have
been
averted
very
likely.
It
wouldn't
have
been
because,
as
soon
as
he
got
to
the
hospital
and
the
doctor
realized
that
there
was
no
basis
to
hold
him,
the
doctor
would
have
immediately
released
him.
There's
a
misconception
that
a
Baker
Act
is
a
72-hour
hold.
Q
It's
not
it's
a
hold
of
a
maximum
of
72
hours.
I've
seen
people
get
released
in
two
or
three
hours
who
get
Baker
acted
so
again.
If
there
was
no
no
legal
basis,
number
one
we're
opening
ourselves
up
to
Legal
liability
by
Baker
Acting
somebody
when
there's
no
reason
to
Baker
Act
them
under
the
law
and
number
two.
When
that
person
does
get
evaluated
by
a
professional
they're,
just
going
to
be
released
so
I
mean,
would
it
prevented
anything?
There's
there's
absolutely
no
way
to
know.
B
All
right
good
evening,
Captain
Messmer
Robert
Irvin
in
the
statement
I
noticed
that
the
suspect,
Mr
Sydney
was
found
handcuffed
by
one
of
the
senior
officers
that
arrived
on
the
scene
lying
there.
Was
there
any
medical
Aid
attempted
on
him,
because
I
see
that
he
was
pronounced
dead
by
the
fire
department
once
they
arrived,
but
the
time
between
the
shooting
and
them
arriving.
Do
you
know
what
happened
during
that
period
of
time?
Yes,.
Q
There
were
I,
don't
know
if
I
have
it
with
me.
You
know
the
report
was
very
very
long.
There
were
a
couple
officers
who
were
there
on
scene
and
they
did
right
in
their
supplements
that
immediately
after
the
shooting
they
went
in
and
did
provide
medical
attention,
they
were
providing
CPR,
but
yet
he
was
you're
correct.
He
was
handcuffed,
but
they
were
providing
CPR
he's.
Q
I
think
probably,
what
happened
in
this
case
was
that
the
officers
who
were
involved
in
the
shooting
after
you
went
to
the
ground.
They
immediately
handcuffed
him
and
then
other
officers
who
ran
in
afterwards
are
the
ones
who
started
the
life-saving
efforts,
because
there
were
quite
a
few
people
there
at
that
time.
B
Just
a
comment:
I
concur
with
the
statement
was
made
regarding
the
evaluating
this
situation,
based
on
what
happened
in
Texas.
You
know
you,
you
delay
in
an
attempt
to
to
negotiate
the
situation
versus
someone's
life,
possibly
in
danger
and
and
an
immediate
decision
have
to
be
made
as
to
what
can
be
done
to
save
a
life
so
unfortunate.
These
things
happen,
but
I
concur.
That
I
would
not
necessarily
criticize
officers
for
taking
the
action
taken.
B
Q
Yeah
I,
I
I,
don't
know,
I,
don't
know
the
answer
to
that.
I
don't
know
if
it
was
an
instinctive
thing
and
they
just
did
it
right
after
the
shooting
happened.
I
don't
really
have
an
answer
to
that.
D
Q
D
And
the
automatic
big
I
have
to
work
a
lot
on
a
personal
side.
I
work
a
lot
in
the
space
with
the
veterans
in
my
other
role,
when
that,
when
I
read
that
about
the
bad
conduct
discharge,
it's
significant
because,
as
you
probably
know
and
many
people
know,
if
you
receive
a
bad
conduct
discharge,
you
are
not
eligible
for
VA
benefits
or
services
or
disability
compensation,
and
so
it
kind
of
concerned
me
when
I
read
the
statement
by
Ramo
saying
that
he
offered
to
take
him
to
Haley
because
they
wouldn't
have
taken
them.
D
A
I
Captain
messver
for
being
here
today,
I
just
a
question.
You
know:
we've
we've
had
some
presentations
on
the
social
worker
partners
that
are
out
there
now
would
would
this
have
been,
and
this
is
before
it
they
that
this
wasn't
into
action
at
this
point.
But
would
this
have
been
something
that,
when
he
went
to
the
district
office
that
a
social
worker
may
have
been
called
to
help
determine
if
the
the
gentleman
should
be
Baker
acted.
Q
Potentially,
if
if
there
was
a
need
for
if
somebody
was
on,
you
know
the
cusp
of
an
officer
making
a
determination
of
do
they
need
it,
it
doesn't
sound
like
from
the
information
there
that
there
really
was
any
was
it.
It
wasn't
one
of
those
things
where
he
was
kind
of
on
the
cusp
of.
Does
he
meet
the
criteria?
Does
he
nod?
Q
It
seems
to
be
from
the
statement
that
he
wasn't
making
any
comments
to
that
nature,
but
if,
if
an
officer
thought
that
having
a
social
worker
or
a
mental
health
counselor
come
speak
to
him,
you
know
that
definitely
could
happen.
We
use
that
a
lot
with
the
people
who
we
have
frequent
contact
with
who
have
who
are
chronic
users
of
be
it,
the
fire
department's
resources,
our
resources
to
to
try
to
get
them.
You
know
the
help
they
need
long
term,
not
the
you
know
immediate
every
we
can.
Q
We
can
Baker
Act
somebody
for
a
short
term
and
fix
the
problem,
but
if,
if
they
don't
take
their
medication
like
was
was
the
issue
in
this
case,
you
know
they're
just
going
to
keep
having
problem
after
problem
with
them,
so
those
resources
are
definitely
available.
If
the
you
know,
officers
think
that
that
those
resources
are
needed.
Sometimes
it
like
I
said.
Q
If
that
person
is
kind
of
on
the
borderline
of
well,
maybe
there's
something,
maybe
there's
some
something
that
I
can't
do,
but
I
think
I
think
one
of
them
could
then
we
would
call
them
up
there
and
they
would
evaluate
them
themselves
and
maybe
offer
some
them
some
different
Services.
It
sounded
like
in
this
case,
though,
he
specifically
wanted
to
to
just
talk
to
a
a
veteran,
a
Marine
Corps
veteran.
A
Any
other
questions.
Thank
you,
Captain
Messmer,
yes,
sir.
The
question
for
the
board
is
whether
we
concur
with
the
finance
and
disposition
or
not
concur
or
even
able,
unable
to
reach
a
determination.
The
chair
is
open
to
a
motion.
Our.
A
I
also
let
the
record
show
that
Robert
Irvin
is
present
after
roll
call
board.
Member
Robert
Irvin
has
made
a
motion
to
concur
with
the
finance
in
his
disposition
board.
Member
leak
and
Tamayo
has
second
the
motion.
Any
further
discussion
for
now
continue
with
the
vote.
All
those
in
favor
please
show
by
raise
of
hand
any
opposed
showed
by
raise
a
hand.
A
Continuing
with
the
agenda
under
excuse
me,
Community
in
Tampa,
Police
Department
matters
as
Citizens
prepare
their
children
for
the
upcoming
school
year
has
raised
many
questions
due
to
the
unfortunate
shootings
which
has
taken
place
across
our
nation
and
upon
our
June
meeting
the
question
of
Rose.
What
precautions,
what
plans,
what
protocols
is
our
Police
Department,
taking
the
insuring
the
children's
safety
for
this
upcoming
school
year?
If
you
will
count,
the
Messmer
continue.
Q
Sure
so
again,
Captain
Patrick
best
Professional
Standards.
You
know
we
do
a
lot
to
ensure
safety
at
our
Public
Schools
I
didn't
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
we
do.
That
really
cannot
be
discussed
in
a
public
forum
because
they
involve
tactics,
equipment
very,
very
specific
things
about
our
operations.
That
just
don't
need
to
be
publicized,
because,
quite
honestly,
somebody
who
wants
to
commit
an
act
of
mass
violence
at
a
school
would
learn
those
things
and
use
them
against
us.
Q
So
there
are
certain
things
that
I
can
discuss
and
there
are
certain
things
that
I
I
can
very
briefly
kind
of
go
over,
but
not
go
too
into
the
Weeds
on.
But
if
there's
something
that
anybody
has
any
questions
on
by
all
means,
let
me
know
so
as
far
as
what
we
do
for
Public
School
Safety
as
far
as
getting
the
kids
to
school,
because
you
know
one
of
the
one
of
the
most
dangerous
things.
Q
I
know
everybody
talks
about
shootings,
but
you
know
traffic
and
pedestrians
and
all
that
we
work
very
closely
with
the
Sheriff's
Office
to
make
sure
that
all
of
our
crosswalks
are
manned
by
either
officers
or
crossing
guard,
so
that's
getting
them
to
school.
Now,
once
they
get
to
school
in
the
public
schools,
all
of
our
middle
schools,
K-8
schools
and
high
schools
in
the
city
of
Tampa
have
a
Tampa
Police
school
resource
officer.
Our
elementary
schools
have
a
officer
assigned
to
them
that
are
that
is
staffed
by
the
Hillsborough
County
Public
Schools
public
safety
department.
Q
We
work
very
closely
with
the
public
safety
department.
Their
Chief
is
actually
a
retired
Tampa,
Police
assistant
chief,
so
we
train
with
them.
We
have
interactions
with
them.
Quite
often
they
actually
a
lot
of
our
retired
officers,
go
to
work
for
them
as
as
school
safety
officers.
So
all
the
public
schools
in
Hillsborough
County
are
staffed
by
either
a
Hillsborough
County
Deputy,
a
Tampa
police
officer
based
on
jurisdiction
or
a
Hillsborough
County
school
security
officer
for
the
elementary
schools.
Q
The
Tampa
Police
does
not
staff
the
elementary
schools,
the
school
security
does
that
and
they
are
all
armed.
Our
sros
school
resource
officers
receive
very
specific
training
in
active
violence
incidents.
They
do
that
on
an
annual
basis.
They
do
that
in
in-service
training.
They
are
issued
specific
equipment
to
be
able
to
address
a
situation
like
that
to
the
rest
of
their
abilities,
as
well
as
our
many
of
our
Patrol
officers
have
specialized
Weaponry.
Not
just
you
know
our
tactical
teams,
our
Patrol
officers,
do
as
well.
We
have
other
protective
devices
there
are.
Q
There
are
ways
that
we
can
know
what's
happening
and
where
things
are
happening,
so
we
know
where
to
send
officers
specifically
in
a
you
know
a
certain
building.
It
might
be
difficult,
but
you
know
we
have
things
at
our
disposal
to
to
make
sure
people
know
where
to
go.
If
an
incident
happens
and
as
as
far
as
the
the
issue
about
threats
of
violence,
because
that
that's
come
up
quite
a
bit,
we
have
a
procedure
in
place
again
with
Hillsborough
County.
They
have
ways
for
students
to
text
tips
either
to
the
school
system.
Q
We
can
do
it,
they
can
text
to
us.
They
can
text
at
the
school
system.
The
school
system
works
with
us
to
vet
threats.
You
know
if
there
is
a
legitimate
threat
that
meets
a
criminal
criteria.
You
know
we
will
get
involved
with
that
and
file
the
appropriate
criminal
charges.
Many
of
these
individuals
who
make
threats
they
they
have
mental
health
concerns
and
again
that
is
something
where
we
will
initiate
Baker
acts.
Q
You
know
if
they're,
threatening
threatening
violence
that
definitely
meets
the
criteria:
theory
for
a
Baker
Act,
the
school
security
and
the
guidance,
counselors
and
counseling
staff
of
the
school.
Also,
if
something
doesn't
quite
meet
a
criminal
threshold,
they
also
will
get
involved
on
their
angle
for
the
social
angle
and
and
try
to
address
that
student.
Q
There
so
I
mean
that's
kind
of
a
very
high
level
overview,
but
all
of
our
officers
receive
training
and
active
shooter
we're
all
prepared
to
deal
with
that
special
training
by
our
school
resource
officers,
the
people
who
are
kind
of
most
apt
to
to
encounter
something
like
that
in
specific
training
about
how
to
identify.
You
know
a
troubled
child
who
says
there
is
a
profile
of
the
the
type
of
person
who
who
most
likely
you
know
would
commit
an
act
like
that.
Q
So
trying
to
you
know,
identify
those
people
with
the
help
of
the
school
and
try
to
get
them
some
sort
of
intervention
before
I
could
turn
into
into
a
tragedy.
You
know
those
type
of
of
intervention
techniques
are
also
trained,
so
that's
kind
of
a
very
high
level
overview
without
going
into
you
know
specific
tactical
details,
or
you
know
telling
everybody
about
exactly
who
has
what
equipment
and
what
it
is,
and
you
know
so
forth,
but
I
can
I
can
get
into
more
detail
if
I
can.
O
Talk
to
me
about
training
with
staff
at
the
schools
and
the
kids
is
there
any
type
of
training
or
drills
are
being
conducted
led
by
or
input
or
assistance
from
tpd.
Q
The
the
school
resource
officers
at
the
schools
that
actually
have
them
they
do
the
you
know
the
the
typical
run,
hide
fight
training,
so
they
will
do
the
training
about.
You
know
hard
corners
and
things
like
that
with
the
the
staff
and
and
with
the
students
for
the
the
schools
that
do
not
have
a
tpd
officer
for
the
for
the
public
schools.
I
believe,
most
of
that
training
is
done
through
Hillsborough
County,
public
safety,
I
know
from
some
of
the
charter,
schools
or
some
of
the
private
schools
that
are
in
the
city.
Q
D
To
your
knowledge,
our
our
schools,
do
they
have
any
or
you
can.
You
can
describe
or
tell
us
what
physical
safeguard
programs
do.
Any
of
our
schools
have.
For
instance,
I
was
watching
on
the
news
not
too
long
ago,
where
this
company
came
up
with
a
creative
way
where
they
developed
what
appeared
to
look
like
a
a
bookshelf,
but
it
really
was
mobile
and
it
had
wheels
and
it
and
it
was
with
reinforced
steel
and
it
had
a
dual
function
of
being
a
barricade
quickly.
D
Q
Not
specifically
aware
of
of
anything
that
the
school
system
has
has
purchased,
that's
like
that,
I
do
know
that
they
there.
There
are
definitely
procedures
in
place
about
locking
the
doors,
and
that
was
an
issue
in
a
recent
recent
incident.
You
know
they
do.
They
do
have
strict
policies
and
procedures
in
place
about
securing
the
campus
and
I
I
know
like
I've
mentioned
the
hard
corners
and
so
forth.
I
know
that's
part
of
the
training.
Q
You
know
as
far
as
any
specific
items
like
that
are
that
are
bullet
resistant
I,
don't
know
of
anything
that
the
school
system's
purchased.
Okay,
I
mean
it
may
exist,
but
I
don't
know
and
I,
don't
quite
honestly,
if,
based
on
what
it
is,
I,
don't
know
that
the
school
system
will
divulge
that
either.
N
On
TV,
for
the
involvement
of
it
might
have
been
the
shares
that
we're
doing
training,
and
it
was
quite
a
few
and
I
can't
remember
it
was
police
or
just
the
sheriffs
but
wood
and
it
appeared
to
be
multi-county.
Do
we
do
something
like
that
here
in
our
County?
N
If
we
weren't
involved
in
something
like
that,
and
they
wanted
people
to
know
so
that
it
was
for
today
because
they
didn't
want
you
to
be
alarmed
because
all
of
the
police
and
the
fire
and
everything
that
was
going
to
be-
and
it
was
training
at
one
of
the
schools?
Do
we
say?
Was
it
Pinellas,
okay,
yeah?
Do
we
do
any
training
similar.
Q
Stuff
we
we
definitely
do
active,
shooter
training,
that's
it
like
that.
We
do
live
fire.
Active
shooter
trade.
Well,
not
I,
say
live
fire,
we
don't
use,
we
don't
use
bullets,
we
use,
we
use
airsoft,
airsoft
weapons,
and
things
like
that.
So
there
is
a
you
know.
There
is
a
very
realistic
appearance
and
yeah
there
are.
Q
There
are
loud
noises
and
things
like
that,
but
we
do
use
schools
for
that
training
and
and
I
believe
within
the
next
week
or
two
we're
going
to
be
doing
a
you
know:
executive
level,
tabletop
exercise
for
with
with
multi-agencies
between
us,
the
fire
department,
the
school
system
and
several
different
other
ones.
Multiple
agencies
about
you
know
responding
to
to
such
an
incident.
If
it
were
to
happen.
P
Kamaria
Pettis
Knuckle
from
the
city
attorney's
office
board.
We
have
Ursula
Richardson
here
from
this
from
my
office
who's,
going
to
provide
some
information
regarding
the
topic
of
subpoenas.
So
at
this
time,
when
I
asked
for
her
to
come
forward
to
to
give
the
board
the
information
regarding
subpoenas.
Thank
you.
R
Good
evening
Ursula
Richardson
I'm,
an
assistant,
City
attorney
Chief
assistant,
City
attorney
with
the
city
attorney's
office,
I've,
been
with
the
city
of
Tampa's
attorney's
office
for
18
years,
and
my
primary
function
in
the
office
is
litigation,
so
I
lead
the
litigation
group
and
we
do
handle
the
bulk
of
litigation
that
the
city
has
just
to
kind
of
give
you
an
overview.
I
spoke
to
some
of
you
during
the
process
of
the
2020-2021
formation
of
your
your
current
ordinance.
R
So
I
have
spoken
to
some
of
you,
but
this
is
basically
just
a
backup
and
kind
of
give
just
like
a
little
bit
of
a
road
map.
You've
heard
some
poor
parts
of
what
was
happening
behind
the
scenes
from
Mr
Shaw,
but
essentially
in
June
of
2020
City
Council
made
a
motion
and
that
particular
motion
was
to
add
as
a
function
of
the
crb,
to
be
involved
in
the
hiring
process.
R
R
So
over
the
course
of
approximately
a
year.
As
you
know,
this
started
in
June
2020
and
we
had
a
lot
of
meetings
behind
the
scenes
and
we
also
had
a
lot
of
meetings
with
the
city
council
over
the
course
of
that
year.
Discussing
the
the
the
ordinance
the
proposed
changes,
what
things
could
be
done?
R
What
things
could
not
be
done,
and
ultimately
there
was
a
motion
made
that
if
there
was
something
that
our
legal
department
felt
like
could
not
be
done,
that
we
submitted
legal
memorandum
to
the
city
council
explaining
what
we
believe
could
not
be
done
and
what
our
basis
was
for
that,
and
so
in
September
2020.
We
did
that
and
one
of
the
things
that
was
a
resounding
theme
through
that
year
of
the
evolution
of
your
ordinance,
was
that
there
was
a
push
for
your
board
to
be
less
dependent.
R
That
was
kind
of
the
theme
less
dependent
on
Tampa,
Police
Department
for
support
and
other
issues
and
the
two
issues
that
kind
of
stayed
at
the
Forefront
of
those
discussions
over
the
course
of
the
year.
Were
you
having
independent
Council
because,
as
you
know,
before,
Mr
Schmid
works
for
the
Tampa
Police
Department
as
the
legal
advisor,
but
he
had
been
with
this
board
since
the
Inception
of
the
board
and
had
provided
service
to
this
board
over
the
course
of
that
time.
But
there
were
Community
stakeholders
who
basically
were
pushing
saying
that.
R
Do
you
need
to
be
more
of
separation
between
this
board
and
the
Tampa
Police
Department?
The
second
issue
would
have
been
subpoena
power.
Now.
One
of
the
issues
that
ultimately
came
to
kind
of
a
compromise
was
your
current
ordinance
recognizes
that
there
should
be
a
separation,
and
that
is
the
reason
why
Miss
Pettis
mackel
is
here
because
she
does
not
work
in
any
capacity
with
the
Tampa
Police
Department.
She
represents
other
boards.
She
would
not
be
involved
in
advising
the
Tampa
Police
Department
on
a
daily
basis.
R
She
would
not
be
involved
in
their
daily
activities,
and
so
there
is
a
distinct
separation
from
her
function
that
she
performs
on
a
daily
basis
than
Mr
Schmidt,
but
that
ordinance
also
sought
to
incorporate
the
ability
that,
if,
for
some
reason,
this
board
decided
that
there
was
a
conflict
or
if
something
arose
where
there
seemed
to
be
a
conflict
between
the
city,
attorney's
office
and
this
board,
or
some
advice
or
some
issue,
that
you
needed
legal
counsel
on
that.
R
You
have
the
ability
to
activate
the
ability
to
bring
in
outside
counsel,
to
ask
those
questions
and
have
that
person
give
you
that
legal
advice
in
order
to
guide
whatever
decisions
you're
looking
at
or
whatever
votes
you're
just
deciding
to
take,
and
so
that's
where
that
ordinance
ended
up.
We
ultimately
city
council
passed
that
ordinance
in
June
of
2021.
R
However,
in
the
course
of
a
year,
not
just
on
this,
this
issue,
but
in
the
course
of
the
year
of
the
city
council
talking
about
other
things
that
it
might
want
to
change
in
the
charter.
This
got
rolled
into
that
conversation.
So
when
the
workshop
was
set
in
May
of
this
year,
the
motion
that
had
been
made
by
that
city
council
member
for
an
ordinance
to
be
drafted
that
got
lumped
into
the
charter
workshop,
and
so
that
was
going
to
be
a
topic
of
discussion
as
well
as
subpoena
power.
R
It
was
the
the
legal
opinion
of
our
department
that
you
have
to
have
legal
Authority
behind
subpoenas
and
I'm
here
today,
just
to
kind
of
give
you
some
general
information,
because
obviously
all
I've
ever
done
in
my
27
27
year
career,
so
I've
been
a
lawyer
with
the
city
of
Tampa
for
18
years,
I
have
been
a
lawyer
in
total
for
27
years.
All
I've
ever
done
is
deal
with
subpoenas,
that's
either
in
the
criminal
Arena,
where
I
came
from
or
in
this
arena
for
the
last
18
years.
R
So
I
wanted
to
just
give
you
a
little
bit
of
information
about
subpoenas
number
one.
You
have
to
have
some
type
of
legal
authority
to
issue
a
subpoena
I'm,
a
lawyer
who
does
litigation.
I
cannot
just
pull
a
subpoena
out
and
issue
it.
It
comes
with
the
impromater
when
I
issue
one.
There
has
to
be
a
litigation,
that's
in
place
and
it
comes
with
the
authority
of
the
Court.
R
That
gives
me
the
right
to
issue
that
subpoena,
and
so
one
of
our
opinions
was
that
the
city
council,
based
on
the
way
that
the
charter
is
currently
set
up.
It
does
not
give
them
the
power
to
grant
you
that
legal
Authority,
the
citizens
have
to
do
that,
and
so
that's
why
this
has
been
a
continuing
discussion.
R
Just
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
information,
this
Thursday
they
are
set.
It's
item
number
16
on
the
agenda
city
council
is
set
to
have
a
discussion
about
resetting
that
Charter
Workshop
I,
don't
know
what
date
they'll
be
proposing
what
they'll
be
discussing,
but
it
is
item
number
16
on
this
Thursday's
agenda
for
city
council
to
discuss
getting
a
new
date
set
for
that
Charter
workshop,
and
this
isn't
the
only
issue
for
that
Charter
Workshop.
R
So
the
what
I
would
say
to
you
is
I'm
here
to
kind
of
to
give
you
just
a
little
bit
of
information
about
subpoenas
how
they
work
things
like
that,
so
that
it
may
inform
that
discussion
so
that
you,
if
you
choose
to
take
any
vote
and
I'm,
not
saying
you
should
or
should
not.
But
if
you
choose
to
take
a
vote
about
whether
or
not
you
do
or
do
not
support
any
effort
to
amend
the
city
of
Tampa's
Charter
in
order
to
incorporate
subpoena
power
as
an
authority
that
you
have
that's,
that's
all.
R
My
comments
are
here
today
just
to
talk
about
penis.
So
one
of
the
things
that
we
talk
about
is
you
have
to
have
legal
Authority.
Mr
Shaw
mentioned
the
code
enforcement
board
and
it
is
one
of
you
brought
it
up.
It
is
clear
that
the
code
enforcement
board
serves
a
different
function.
They
actually
listen
to
cases
make
a
decision
about
whether
or
not
our
code
has
been
violated,
and
then
they
have
the
ability
to
impose
penalties
against
those
people
and
those
fines
can
be
pretty
hefty.
R
But
what's
clear
about
the
code
enforcement
board,
the
code
enforcements
boards,
their
subpoena
power,
didn't
come
through
city
council.
It
came
through
state
statute,
the
State
of
Florida
decided
that
there
could
be
code
enforcement
boards
and
that
local
governments
could
Empower
code
enforcement
boards
and
the
State
of
Florida.
So
it's
in
the
statute,
it's
chapter
162.
in
chapter
162.
R
It
talks
about
the
formation
of
boards
what
they
can
and
cannot
do
it
talks
about
fines,
how
they
are
to
look
at
how
they
Levy
fines
and
as
a
part
of
that,
it
also
includes
that,
if
necessary,
in
adjudicating
those
issues
of
Code
Enforcement
that
they
basically
can
issue
subpoenas
in
those
instances.
So
that
is
one
place
where
you
talk
about
it.
Civil
service
board
is
another
statutory
creature,
so
Civil
Service
board.
R
If
the
city
takes
some
type
of
employment,
action
against
an
employee
that
employee
has
the
right
to
appeal
to
the
Civil
Service
Board
and
the
Civil
Service
Board
is
actually
adjudicating
whether
or
not
the
city
made
the
right
call
if
they
determine
that
the
punishment
was
too
harsh
or
that
we
should
not
have
terminated
someone.
They
can
actually
reverse
that
determination
and
also
impose
other
things
like
back
pay,
Etc,
so
they're
adjudicating
whether
or
not
the
city
has
taken
the
appropriate
employment
action
and
subpoenas
can
be
issued
again.
That
is
through
it's
a
statutory
creature.
R
It's
a
creature
of
State
of
Florida
law
that
would
allow
that
Civil
Service
Board,
that
if
they
needed
to
subpoena
witnesses
that
were
pertinent
to
that
employment
decision
or
action
that
they'd
have
the
ability
to
do
that.
So
that's
the
number
one
thing
that
I
want
to
say
that
there
has
to
be
some
legal
Authority
for
the
issuance
of
a
subpoena,
and
those
are
just
two
examples
of
where
that
Authority
comes
from
from
those
particular
boards.
R
The
other
issue
I
wanted
to
raise
for
you
is
I,
wanted
to
explain
what
a
subpoena
can
do.
Subpoenas
can
basically
compel
a
person
to
appear
before
you,
so
that's
number
one.
It's
a
command
I'm,
often
telling
people
in
my
cases
that
the
subpoena
is
a
court
ordered,
at
least
in
my
instances
it's
a
court
order.
It
is
not
an
invitation,
so
it
commands
presence,
and
it
can
also
compel
you
know
actual
testimony
now
whether
or
not
a
person
actually
cooperates
with
the
process.
R
R
So,
in
my
litigation
cases,
if
someone's
making
a
claim
that
there's
a
personal
injury,
because
one
of
our
city
Vehicles
had
an
accident,
if
the
person
is
claiming
to
be
injured
and
I
need
to
know
what
those
injuries
are,
I
can
issue
a
subpoena
to
Tampa,
General
hospital
or
wherever
they
got
their
treatment
and
compel
the
production
of
Tampa
General's
records
that
supports
whatever
this
injury
issue
is,
but
what
I'm?
What
where
my
parameters
are
set?
I
can't
subpoena
anything
everything
or
go
on
a
fishing
Expedition.
R
There
has
to
be
some
relevance
and
there
has
to
be
some
some
some
information
that
I'm
looking
for
I
just
can't
go
and
say:
okay,
this
person
is
making
a
personal
injury
claim,
I
think
I'm
going
to
send
a
subpoena
to
every
single
Hospital
in
the
city
of
Tampa,
or
every
single
Hospital
in
Hillsborough,
County
and
I'm.
Also
going
to
just
randomly
I
have
to
have
some
type
of
clue
that
I
need
the
information
and
and
where
that
information
can
be
found,
as
Mr
Shaw
told
you
earlier,
a
subpoena
cannot
be
issued.
R
You
know,
from
this
perspective,
from
the
citizens
review
board
perspective,
there
has
been
litigation
all
the
way
up
to
the
Florida
Supreme
Court
that
ended
in
2017,
with
the
opinion
that,
because
Florida
has
the
officer's
Bill
of
Rights,
that
compelling
a
police
officer
to
come
before
you
or
become
come
before
any
board,
but
come
to
come
and
testify
and
give
testimony
in
this
type
of
situation.
That
particular
instance
was
Miami.
R
Miami
had
basically
issued
a
subpoena
to
this
particular
officer
for
him
to
show
up
that
officer
then
went
to
court
to
challenge
that
board's
right
to
subpoena
him.
He
also
asked
the
court
to
quash
his
subpoena
and
give
a
protective
order
that
would
keep
him
from
having
to
testify.
That
is
the
litigation
that
led
all
the
way
to
the
Florida
Supreme
Court
and,
ultimately,
they
determined
no
police
officer
can
be
subpoenaed
in
these
type
of
situations
involving
investigative
panels
for
police
misconduct.
R
Etc
because,
as
you
well
know,
the
officer's
Bill
of
Rights
sets
up
a
process.
You
know
it's
all.
You
know
it's
their
process
of
how
things
are
to
be
investigated
and
if
discipline
is
going
to
flow
from
an
investigation,
only
the
agency
can
issue
that
discipline.
That
is
the
way
that
the
officers-
that's
in
a
nutshell,
the
officer's
Bill
of
Rights,
so
Mr
Shaw
is
absolutely
correct.
That
if
you
were
to
have
subpoena
Power
It
could
only
apply
to
non-law
enforcement
Witnesses.
R
The
next
part
is
the
process,
and
this
is
the
part
that
we
deal
with
on
a
on
a
daily
basis.
Essentially,
somebody
has
to
draft
a
subpoena
and
it
has
to
contain.
You
know
the
sufficient
language
and
information.
It's
usually
an
attorney
who's
drafting
it
because
you
want
to
craft
it
in
a
way
that
it's
not
over
broad.
You
want
to
make
sure
you're
actually
asking
for
the
things
that
you
want
to
ask
for.
As
opposed
to
being
on
a
fishing
Expedition,
an
attorney
has
to
sign
it.
R
So
from
my
perspective,
if
I'm
issuing
a
subpoena
and
one
of
my
litigation
cases,
I
find
that
subpoena
so
I
have
basically
put
the
Court's
power
behind
this
Sabina
and
because
I'm,
a
member
of
the
Florida
bar
I,
have
now
basically
signed
that
I
have
done
what
I
did
in
good
faith
in
pursuit
of
the
information
in
this
particular
litigation,
and
then
it
requires
somebody
to
serve
that's
the
Practical
part
of
it.
So,
from
my
perspective,
over
the
course
of
the
years,
the
cost
of
serving
a
subpoena
has
increased.
R
It
costs
somewhere
between
30
and
40
dollars
to
subpoena
a
person
or
records,
and
if
they
have
to
go
to
more
than
one
place
to
do
it,
they
charge
you
for
every
place.
They
have
to
stop.
So
if
you
give
them,
this
is
the
hospital's
address,
but
they
get
there
and
the
hospital
has
a
different
address
where
that
subpoena
needs
to
be
served,
they
charge
another
amount
in
order
for
them
to
go
to
the
second
location.
R
So
there
are
practical
considerations
for
you
to
consider
when
you're
you
know
thinking
about
what
this
means
as
a
global
picture,
average
cost
is
between
30
to
40
dollars,
and
then
the
issue
is
of
enforcement.
R
So,
if
I
issue
a
subpoena
in
one
of
my
litigation
cases
and
a
person
refuses
to
come
to
court,
excuse
me
refuses
to
come
to
a
deposition,
doesn't
show
up
for
a
trial.
My
recourse
is
I
have
to
talk
to
the
judge,
and
the
judge
is
the
one
that
ultimately
has
to
issue
a
penalty
or
contempt
or
issue
a
sanction
that
wouldn't
be
any
different
for
this
board.
If,
in
fact,
you
were
having
pushback
or
issues
about
a
subpoena
that
you
issued
the
remedy,
for
that
would
be
Circuit
Court.
That's
what
would
have
to
happen.
R
What
I
heard
in
your
voicemail
from
the
caller,
who
called
from
down
in
Miami
what
she
was
referencing,
is
that
the
CIP
down
there
wanted
to
subpoena
records
from
the
University
of
Miami
University
of
Miami.
They
basically
asked
for
the
records
University
of
Miami
took
the
position
that
they
would
not
turn
the
records
over
voluntarily
and
that
they
would
not
turn
the
records
over
without
a
court
order
period.
So
even
when
the
subpoena
was
issued,
their
position
was
this.
Subpoena
is
insufficient.
R
It
requires
a
court
order
and
there
are
places
where,
even
when
you
issue
The
subpoena,
say,
for
instance,
Tampa
General,
Hospital
I,
believe
St
Joseph's
is
also
the
same
way.
Even
though
I
may
issue
a
subpoena.
They
either
will
require
that
I
get
an
authorization
from
the
patient
to
release
those
records,
so
the
subpoena
sometimes
isn't
good
enough
to
get
it
done,
or
they
require
me
to
get
a
court
order.
R
So,
even
even
with
my
power
of
the
court
and
signing
the
subpoena
I
still
have
to
jump
through
some
additional
Hoops,
depending
on
what
type
of
information
I'm
looking
for
in
order
to
get
it
another
place
where
it
we
have.
Some
difficulty
in
obtaining
records
is
usually
cell
phone
records,
Social
Media
Records,
there's
a
bunch
of
Hoops
that
have
to
be
jumped
through
in
order
to
get
those
kind
of
things,
and
it
can't
it
can
be
a
bit
of
a
task
in
order
to
get
that
information.
R
But
just
so
you
know,
if
you
run
into
a
problem,
the
enforcement
mechanism
would
be
the
court.
That
means
filing
an
action
filing
an
action
means
paying
a
filing
fee,
which
is
usually
approximately
four
hundred
dollars
and
then
the
cost
of
serving
the
person
you
want
to
tell
to
come
to
court,
so
the
court
can
tell
them
what
to
do
so.
R
Those
are
practical
things
that
come
along
with
trying
to
deal
with
subpoenas
and,
like
I,
said,
I
deal
with
it
from
a
litigation
standpoint,
let's
see,
and
then
the
potential
issues
for
you
I
know
that
somebody
mentioned
something
about
Ring
cameras.
Privacy
issues
are
things
that
come
up
frequently
even
in
the
medical
records
situation.
R
There
are
also
the
potential
for
people
to
raise
Fifth
Amendment
concerns.
Obviously,
if
you
bring
somebody
to
testify
and
that
person
believes
that
that
testimony
can
incriminate
them
in
some
type
of
criminal
activity,
they
have
the
right
to
invoke
their
Fifth
Amendment
right
to
be
silent,
and
the
only
way
to
un
invoke
is
to
go
to
a
court
and
have
that
Court
basically
discuss
whether
or
not
that
person
has
properly
invoked
or
whether
or
not
it's
a
privilege
that
they
can
maintain.
R
We
do
have
those
issues
as
well,
where
we're
in
the
middle
of
a
deposition
and
a
witness
raises.
You
know
that
issue
that
they
won't
answer
a
particular
question,
because
they
believe
that
it
may
incriminate
them
and
won't
answer
the
question,
and
the
last
thing
is
also
the
potential
for
maybe
stepping
on
the
toes
of
another
agency,
and
these
are
things
that
can
be
addressed,
obviously,
but
if
a
subpoena
that
was
issued
in
this
instance
in
some
way
conflicted
with
a
subpoena
over
at
the
state
attorney's
office
and
their
criminal
investigations.
R
There
is
a
potential
for
there
to
be
an
issue,
but
there
are
also
ways
to
kind
of
work
through
that
one
of
the
things
that
they
did
in
Miami
is
if
in
Miami,
if
a
subpoena
were
to
be
issued,
it
has
to
be
vetted.
It
has
to
jump
through
a
couple
Hoops
of
vetting
before
it
would
be
issued
just
to
make
sure
that
those
it
doesn't
run
a
file
of
those
issues.
R
So
I
want
to
make
you
aware
of
that
and
then
again
cost
one
of
the
things
that
a
person
can
do
is
if
they're
subpoenaed
to
testify,
we
give
them
a
witness
fee.
The
law
requires
that
we
give
the
person
a
witness
fee
and
we
also
have
to
cover
mileage
those
Tampa
General
records
that
might
equate
to
2
000
Pages
worth
of
Records.
We
don't
get
those
for
free,
we
actually
have
to.
R
There
is
a
statute
that
says
we
get
the
first
I
believe
25
or
50
pages
at
one
dollars
per
page
and
every
other
page
is
25
cents
thereafter,
so
they
get
to
charges
for
the
cost
of
pulling
the
records
searching
for
the
records
and
they
also
get
to
charges
for
the
cost
of
copies.
So
nothing
is
free.
So
those
are
my
statements
or
things
for
you
to
consider
as
far
as
the
practical
application
of
what
it
means
to
use
subpoenas.
B
D
Me,
thank
you.
Yes,
thank
you
very
much.
That
was
that
was
excellent,
an
excellent
explanation,
a
question
for
you.
So
would
you
say
then,
hypothetically
if
we
have
citizens
concerned
citizens
and
they
would
like
to
see
this
board,
have
this
type
of
authority
subpoena
Authority?
Would
it
be
reasonable
for
them
to
let's
say
Lobby
their
respective
legislators,
their
elected
officials
sponsor
a
bill
that
would
in
fact,
you
know,
authorized
or
develop
this
sort
of
capability
for
this
board.
R
You
mean
from
the
state
of
Florida's
perspective.
Yes,
yes,
I
mean.
That
is
certainly
this,
because
the
State
of
Florida
is
the
one
who
basically
put
the
officer's
Bill
of
Rights
into
effect.
So
if
the
State
of
Florida
were
interested
in
making
citizen
review
boards
or
Pro,
you
know
private
citizen
boards
to
have
that
Authority
in
the
same
way
that
they
empowered
the
code
enforcement
board
right.
The
Civil
Service
Board,
then.
R
R
D
Q
And
several
different
City
of
Miami
Broward
County
labor
Dayton
County,
Orange,
County
yeah.
M
Miss
Richardson,
if
the
crb
were
to
be
given
Authority
to
issue
subpoenas,
would
that
Authority
come
through
a
vote
of
the
The
subpoena
issue
from
a
vote
from
the
crb,
or
it
cannot
be
done
unilaterally
by
any
one
crb
member?
What.
R
R
Just
like
the
Florida
state
constitution,
the
charter
is
our
Constitution
and
the
way
to
change
that
is
either
through
a
petition
through
the
voters
getting
enough
signatures
in
order
to
make
that
happen,
or
it
happens
through
the
city
council
itself,
passing
an
ordinance
right
and
then
getting
it
onto
the
ballot
for
the
next
election.
So
passing.
M
R
Correct
and
that's
the
way
it
works
and
the
panels
that
Mr
Shaw
is
referencing.
Those
panels
were
created
through
Charter
changes
and
they
have
a
procedure
or
process.
That's
in
place
that
the
board
would
need
to
vote
essentially
agreeing
that
a
subpoena
would
be
issued,
and
then
at
that
point
the
attorney
would
take
their
marching
orders
and
issue
that
okay.
Thank
you.
N
When
you
were
mentioning
the
changes
that
we
went
through
and
thank
you,
I
was
one
of
those
individuals
and
I
learned
a
lot
from
you
when
you
did
it
and
I've
learned
even
more
here,
so
I
thank
Ms
Pettis
for
bringing
you
here.
Thank
you.
You
mentioned
that
when
the
initial
change
was
made
that
if
the
crb
felt
there
was
a
conflict
of
interest
that
we
could
ask
for
an
independent
Council
to
come
in
in
any
issue,
is
that
what
you
said
is
that
already,
in
effect,
it's.
R
Already
in
your
current
ordinance,
so
you
know,
as
the
discussion
was
happening,
that
was
I,
think
and
I,
don't
want
to
say
who
exactly
made
that
suggestion.
But
at
some
point
someone
was
saying
that
that
would
be
a
compromise
to
the
extent
that
you
would
receive
a
lawyer
who
did
not
work
directly
for
the
Tampa
Police
Department
and
also
have
the
ability
to
get
outside
counsel
if
a
conflict
arose.
So.
R
Yes,
ma'am,
your
ordinance
was
passed
in
June
2021
of
last
year
and
it
became
effective
in
December.
So
as
of
December
2021,
that
provision
is
already
in
your
current
ordinance,
where
you
have
someone
who
is
separate
from
the
department,
and
you
also
still
have
the
ability
if
a
conflict
arises
to
get
outside
counseling.
N
With
that
already
in
the
ordinance
it's
in
the
hands
of
the
city,
and
they
made
these
changes,
city,
council
and
the
citizens,
is
there
any
reason
that
we,
as
the
crb,
should
even
be
voting
on
that?
Oh,
do
we
need
to
give
the
the
city
council
our
opinion
when
the
opinion
is
that
of
the
citizens,
let
them
go
to
them
and
give
them.
Is
it
required
that
we
give
an
opinion?
Why
should
we
even
give
an
opinion,
because.
R
You're
the
board,
who
would
be
carrying
out
those
particular
functions,
so
I
think
that
it's
one
thing
to
talk
about
people
I
think
it's
another
thing
to
talk
at
people.
It's
another
thing
to
talk
to
people,
so
the
people
who
would
be
most
affected
by
the
changes
are
the
people
who
serve
are
before
me
today,
serving
on
the
board.
So
from
the
perspective
of
I,
believe
it
was
chair
Akil
who
went
to
the
May
2023.
N
O
So
I'll,
first
of
all,
thank
you
for
the
information
and
for
all
the
you
know,
data
that
we
have
gathered
as
well
for
Mr
Shaw
I
do
want
to
bring
back
to
the
table.
The
motion
that
I
made
last
month.
R
B
There
any
other
Michigan.
B
I
But
that's
the
only
example.
Anybody's
get
come
up
with.
Is
there
another
example
out
there
that
you
can
share
with
me?
That
would
would
be
a
time
when
we
would
ask
for
a
subpoena,
because
I
can't
come
up
with
one
and
if
anybody
else
could
I
would
love
to
hear
it,
because
I
can't
imagine
what
it
would
be.
I.
R
I'm
not
I'm,
not
certain
that
I'm
the
person
to
answer
that
question
in
the
sense
that,
based
on
what
your
ordinance
says
in
your
function,
I'm
not
sure
where
that
would
come
into
play.
Necessarily
I
know
that
the
it's
been
said
over
the
course
of
discussions
that
there
might
be
people
who
won't
because
the
police
department,
even
though
they're
charged
with
investigating
the
Professional
Standards,
has
to
investigate
they
don't
actually
have
subpoena
power.
I
know
that
it
has
come
up
in
the
sense
that
maybe
the
people
might
want
to
you
know.
R
R
But
I
don't
know
even
again
from
the
Practical
consideration.
Compelling
me
to
appear
does
not
compel
me
to
testify.
I
R
Like
I
said
from
a
practical
standpoint,
you're
correct,
I'm,
not
certain
where
that
would
play
come
into
play
in
the
way
that
your
current
ordinance
is
drafted,
so
I'm
not
really
sure,
but
there
could
be
a
situation
where
something
is
ongoing
and
maybe
a
subpoena
can
be
helpful.
However,
what
I
will
say
to
that
is
that
the
the
police
department
works
closely
with
the
state
attorney's
office.
R
The
state
attorney's
office
can
issue
investigative
subpoena,
so
even
before
they
charge
people
with
a
crime
by
the
way
I
work
for
the
state
attorney's
office
under
Mark
over
so
I
know
this
for
a
fact:
I'm.
Not
it's
not.
You
know
not
telling
me
what
I
heard
I'm
telling
you
what
I
know
we
we
issue
when
we
were
at
the
state
attorney's
office.
We
issued
investigative
subpoenas
ahead
of
time
in
order
to
get
information
to
determine
you
know,
basically
how
to
move
forward
as
far
as
criminal
charges
were
concerned.
R
So
I
would
believe
that
if
it
was
something
imperative
for
the
police
department
to
have
that,
that
will
be
a
situation
where
they
would
reach
out
to
the
state
attorney's
office
and
ask
them
to
use
their
invest
power
subpoena.
In
order
to
obtain
that
information,
that's
that's
the
best
I
guess.
I
can
answer
that
particular
question.
Yeah.
Q
So
this
guy
again
Captain
Patrick
mess
with
Professional
Standards.
Let
me
just
jump
in
on
that
question.
Real
quick
first
to
point
out,
like
this
case
review
today,
is
four
years
old.
If
there
was
Ring
camera
video,
it's
gone,
so
there
would
really
be
nothing
left
at
this
point
to
subpoena
now.
One
of
the
comments
that
was
made
by
the
Miami
individual
mentioned.
How
subpoenas
helped
them
in
a
case
involving
an
officer
who
was
accused
of
double
dipping,
double
dipping
would
mean
getting
paid
by
the
city
while
you're
working
another
job.
Q
Well,
that's
also
called
theft,
which
is
a
crime
which,
like
Miss
Richardson,
just
said
we
can
get
a
subpoena
for
that,
and
that
would
be
a
criminal
investigation
in
addition
to
an
administrative
investigation
so
with
the
police
department
can
and
wood
and
does
get
subpoenas
in
all
criminal
investigations.
So
they
don't
it's
the
same
thing.
They
have
to
cooperate
with
that
subpoena,
that's
issued
through
the
state
attorney's
office.
So
while
it's
true
that
I
conducting
an
administrative
investigation
and
Professional
Standards
cannot
obtain
a
subpoena.
Q
If
there
is
a
parallel
criminal
investigation,
we
always
can
get
a
subpoena
in
a
criminal
investigation.
That
seems
to
be
a
lot
of
the
things
that
are
that
are
brought
up
here
like
in
a
shooting
such
as
the
one
issued
today
or
discussed
today.
We
could
get
subpoenas
during
the
course
of
that
investigation.
If
there
was
video
of
that
shooting
that
somebody
didn't
want
to
provide,
we
could
get
subpoenas,
or
even
even
go
so
far
as
to
get
a
search
warrant,
to
obtain
that
video
search
warrant
is
even
a
higher
standard
than
a
subpoena.
Q
So
there
are
ways
that
we
can
get
subpoenas
when
we're
investigating
police
misconduct.
I
don't
want
anyone
to
think
that
the
only
way
for
a
subpoena
to
be
issued.
If
we're
investigating
officers
for
a
board
like
this
to
issue
one
we
we
don't
operate
that
way.
We
can
get
a
subpoena
whenever
we're
investigating
FDLE
can
get
subpoenas
and
warrants
when
they're
investigating
anybody
for
a
crime.
So
just
wanted
to
throw
that
out.
There.
O
A
Emotion
and
reference
to
Independent
Council
has
already
been
performed
and
carried
out.
The
only
available
motion
on
the
floor
will
be
a
representative
power
only
as
the
amendment
to
the
city's
Council
in
reference
to.
O
K
O
A
And
just
to
clarify,
when
you
say
to
the
yields
of
public
the
opportunity
to.
O
Then
comparison,
the
the
motion
is
to
have
it
on
the
ballot
for
the
public
to
vote
on
whether
or
not
we
as
a
board
should
have
subpoena
powers
or
not.
So
if
the,
if
the
community
votes
on
that,
they
agree
that
we
should
have
it,
then
we
should
acquire
and
adopt
that
if
we,
the
public,
decides
not
to,
then
we
continue
conducting
business
as
usual
and,
of
course,
with
the
direction
of
city
council
and
our
attorney
that
we're
currently
working
with
the
board
members.
P
Sorry
kamaria
Pettis
knocker
from
the
city
attorney's
office.
We
need
to
take
a
brief
four
minute
recess
for
the
to
switch
the
camera
equipment.
A
And
I
just
want
to
re-implement
on
what
city
council
is
asking
from
the
citizen
reward
and
I
also
want
to
applaud
city
council
for
giving
us
the
opportunity
to
share
our
opinion
and
reference
to
the
subpoena
power
in
reference
to
the
Charter
itself.
Again,
the
city
council
is
asking
our
opinion
in
reference.
Do
we
want
to
support
it?
That
is
the
question.
A
So
I
want
to
kind
of
stay
on
script
and
give
them
what
they're
asking
for
again
I
applaud
them
to
allowing
us
to
have
the
opportunity
to
share
our
opinion,
and
obviously
it
is
vital
being
that,
as
what
Miss
Richard
said,
will
be
the
one
implemented
so
I
give
you
the
opportunity
to
restructure
that
motion
and
references
being
concerned
to
the
question
at
hand
that
city
council
has
placed
on
the
table
so.
O
N
N
N
A
set
of
orders
call
them
anything
that
we
want
to
call
them.
It
came
from.
The
city
did
not
come
from
the
state,
because
the
city
council
made
some
decisions
and
they
did
not
come
to
this
board.
They
made
decisions
to
give
us
the
the
council,
the
independent
Council,
the
way
it
has
been
stated
and
I
asked
a
question:
did
we
have
it?
So
if
we
were
in
Conflict
for
any
reason,
we
already
have
the
opportunity
to
go
for
independent
Council.
They
gave
that
to
us.
N
N
So
the
reason
I.
Second,
the
original
emotion
I-
have
not
withdrawn
it,
but
I
will.
If
the
maker
want
me
to
because
I'm
not
going
to
Second
That,
Emotion
I,
think
the
city
council
did
just
and
asking
this
board
what
we
wanted
and
what
we
need
to
say
to
the
city
council
and
not
turn
the
city
council
or
the
people
in
the
community
against
the
crb
is
do
what
you
feel
would
be
beneficial
for
the
City
of
Tampa
and
let's
give
it
back
to
them.
P
O
P
O
P
No!
No!
So
that's
up
to
you!
If
you
want
to
withdrawal
your
if
you
want
to
withdraw
your
second,
that's
up
to
you.
O
We're
going
to
go
with
the
motion
that
was
first
on
the
floor,
because
it
was
second
so
out
of
respect
for
Dr
Collins.
We
will
move
forward
with
the
motion,
as
it
stated
before,
that
we
recommend
for
the
public
to
be
able
to
vote
on
whether
or
not
this
board
should
have
subpoena
Powers.
B
A
A
A
Sorry,
we
could
continue
with
the
agenda
of
the
crb
staff
reports
in
business.
The
second
item-
I'm,
not
sure
if
a
discussion
is
necessary.
Regarding
the
Tampa
crime-free
multi-housing
program,
we
had
a
presentation.
We
also
received
the
update
in
reference
to
the
revised
program.
Is
there
any
new
changes
that
we're
aren't
aware
of,
because
I
believe
the
last
presentation
was
was
given
by
Chief
Dugan
in
reference
to
the
revised
editing
part
of
that
particular
program?.
Q
You
know
it's
Captain
Messmer
again
Professional
Standards
I
believe
it
was
back
in
January
now
retired
assistant
chief
interim
Chief
Delgado
did
make
a
presentation
of
the
board
that
you
know
the
crime
free
program
has
been
was
was
abolished
in
last
year
and
now
there
is
a
new
program,
that's
much
different.
That
has
replaced
that
and
the
board
was
presented
all
that
information
back
in
January.
But
there's
nothing.
That's
changed
since
then.
Okay,
question.
O
O
O
O
O
Q
I
don't
know
I,
that's
that's
I
thought
that
was
done
in
January,
but
if
the
board
makes
a
motion
for
that,
we
will
we'll
come
back.
If
that
motion
passes
and
we'll
do
a
presentation
so.
O
K
E
To
clarify
I
mean
what
what
Captain
Messmer
said
is
we
presented
it
in
January
we
presented
the
safe
program,
I'll
leave
it
for
the
boards
recollection
to
remember,
but
we
presented
the
Tampa
Safe
program
and
it
would
essentially
be
the
same
presentation
we
would
we
would
provide
again,
but
if
that's
the
board's
pleasure,
we
can
provide
the
the
Tampa
State
program
again.
So.
O
I
O
O
I
think
we
were,
it
would
be
a
great
idea
or
maybe
productive,
to
do
the
the
presentation
in
our
district
five,
where
the
program
may
have
the
most
impact
on
so
that
we
can,
you
know,
have
the
the
community
that's
being
impacted
the
most
present
and
and
invited
to
listen
to
and
have
their
voices
also
heard
on
what
you
know.
Their
thoughts
are.
A
Mike
Smith,
if
you
can
give
the
audience
some
direction
and
reference
to
Reverend
Bank
said
the
website
where
they
can
become
more
knowledgeable
of
the
existing
program.
So
everyone
could
be
on
the
same
page
until
we
find
the
results
of
the
current
motion
on
the
floor
that
Mr
Valdez
just
presented.
If.
E
A
It
thank
you
Mike
Schmidt,
there's,
there's
the
current
motion
on
the
floor
in
reference
to
a
presentation
of
the
Tampa
State
program
to
be
hailed
in
September
at
our
I.
Think
next,
open
Forum
meeting
in
District,
Five
correct,
except
in
September
District
Five,
do
do
we
have
a
second
Irene
guy
has
second
the
motion.
Any
further
discussion.
A
We'll
continue
with
the
vote.
All
those
in
favor
please
show
by
raise
of
hand
any
opposed.
Please
show
by
raise
a
hand
that
motion
passes
without
being
ample
enough
time
and
in
September
to
return
and
share
with
the
community
in
reference
to
the
Tampa
State
program,
great.
P
A
We're
going
to
continue
with
the
vote
all
those
things.
P
A
We'll
now
continue
to
the
next
item.
As
as
we
wind
down
while
down
here
the
items
that
was
continued,
there
was
a
item
continued,
it's
placed
on
the
agenda
of
the
case
number
21f-001.
In
regards
to
the
mor
1204.
There
were
board
members
to
want
to
get
an
explanation
in
reference
to
why
that
Mor
1204
was
not
sustained.
In
that
case,
a
21f001.
Q
Sure
and
again
Captain
Patrick
Mesmer,
Internal,
Affairs,
Professional
Standards,
so
I
did
the
disposition.
On
this
particular
case.
This
was
I
wasn't
present.
I
was
at
a
training
conference
when
this
case
was
presented
so
I
sustained
a
violation
for
criticism
and
gossip
and
also
sustained
a
violation
for
supervisor
responsibility
to
do
the
actions.
I
did
not
sustain
an
attentiveness
to
duty
charge
based
on
the
content
of
the
the
manual
regulation.
Q
I
didn't
find
any
information
in
the
case
that
basically
showed
that,
due
to
those
actions,
they
were
unable
to
actually
get
the
job
done
as
the
supervisors
of
the
DUI
Squad.
There
wasn't
any
evidence
that
the
productivity
of
the
squad
suffered
that
they
weren't
able
to
complete
their
reports
accurately
that
they
weren't
able
to
you
know
submit
the
required
things
that
they
were
supposed
to
do
as
a
supervisor
to
the
squad
administratively
or
you
know
operationally.
Q
So
there
just
wasn't
any
evidence
that,
at
you
know
sending
basically
sending
text
messages
that
were
not
really
appropriate,
impacted
their
actual
ability
to
be
attentive
to
the
to
the
job.
So
there
were
violations
there.
But
you
know,
based
on
reading
the
mor
employees
should
be
attentive
to
their
assigned
duties
and
responsibilities.
They
shall
not
convey
a
lazy
disposition
such
as
lounging
in
public
view
or
sleeping
on
duty,
definitely
weren't
sleeping
on
duty.
Q
There's
another
section
of
this
Mor
requiring
employees
to
report,
organized
crime,
racketeering,
Vice
conditions
or
violations
of
law
to
their
supervisor
that
didn't
apply.
Department
employees
shall
not
read
work-related
newspapers,
periodicals
or
similar
materials.
In
public
view.
There
was
no
idea
that
there's
no
evidence
that
they
were
doing
anything
in
public
view.
Q
Employees
shall
not
participate
in
any
activity
or
personal
business,
which
this
was
personal
business
which
could
cause
them
to
neglect
or
devote
inadequate
attention
to
their
duties.
So
you
know
I
mean
if
we're
going
to
say
you
can't
send
a
text
message.
So
an
officer
can't
you
know,
call
their
spouse
and
say
good
night.
They
can't
send
a
personal
text
message,
that's
just
unreasonable,
so
you
know
that's
that's
what
the
policy
says.
You
can't
participate
in
personal
business
which
could
cause
them
to
neglect
or
devote
inadequate
attention
to
their
duties.
Q
O
Q
There
definitely
is
a
difference
and
that's
why
the
criticism
and
gossip
was
sustained
because
they
were
sending
text
messages
that
were
gossiping.
If
they
were
sending
text
messages
to
loved
ones,
we
would
not
have
sustained
the
gossip
policy.
So
again
we
don't
have
time
stamps
on
these.
We
don't
know
if
these
were
being
sent
every
five
minutes,
every
10
minutes
every
30
seconds.
You
know
those
weren't
provided
so
there
again.
We
did
not
feel
that
there
was
enough
evidence
that
said
that
those
text
messages
caused
them
to
devote
inadequate
attention
to
their
duties.
Q
A
We'll
now
continue
with
the
agenda
for
the
announcements
and
any
new
business
Mike
Schmidt,
there's
any
new
business
to
be
discussed.
A
The
next
meeting
will
be
held
on
the
fourth
Tuesday
of
the
month
of
August
23rd
at
the
old
city
hall,
building
located
at
315
East
Caney
Boulevard
third
floor
at
6
PM
board
members.
If,
for
any
reason,
you're
unable
to
attend
the
next
meeting,
please
notify
our
city
clerk,
Ms
Tanya
Wilcox
at
least
48
hours
in
advance.
So
we
can
ensure
a
voting
Forum
before
I
adjourn.
This
meeting
I
would
like
to
give
any
of
our
board
members
the
opportunity
to
add
any
final
comments
or
statements
at
this
time.
If
you
will
Mr
Tamayo
Mr.
M
Chair
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
had
the
honor
of
representing
the
crb
yesterday
at
the
headquarters
interviewing
26
finalists,
a
scholarship
finalists
to
the
to
the
academy
and
I
was
very
impressed
with
that
group
of
26
they're,
very,
very
bright,
self-assured
committed
to
public
service
and
committed
to
this
city
and
its
citizens.
I
was
very
very
impressed
a
strong
representation
from
both
genders,
a
very
good
Spectrum,
racially
and
and
ethnically
very
impressed
with
that
group.
N
Mr,
chair
and
board
I
want
to
just
give
thanks
to
the
staff
for
this
our
first
coming
out
meeting
and
for
those
of
you
that
attended
in
the
audience,
including
those
of
you
that
had
to
have
the
videography
video
and
a
recording
responsibilities,
and
thank
you
all
so
much
for
this
first
meeting
and
I
think
the
first
meeting
was
successful
and
particularly
because
we
have
people
in
the
audience
that
Express
their
concerns,
and
you
made
it
happen
by
getting
it
set
up
for
us.
So
thank
you
all
so
very
much.
A
But
no
other
statements
or
comments.
This
meeting
is
adjourned.