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Description
Agenda and Request to Speak at the Meeting:
https://www.toaks.org/departments/city-clerk/agendas-minutes/city-council-agendas
Thousand Oaks City Council Meeting - 3/14/23
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B
Anyone
no
one,
okay,
say
again:
we're
going
to
move
item
13
Department
reports,
a
b
and
c
they'll
be
moved
up
and
heard
after
the
public
hearing
we're
on
item
eight
special
presentations.
Give
me
a
moment:
I
will
come
around
to
the
podium.
B
I'd
like
to
call
up
please
Denise
and
David
belkle.
B
B
On
a
personal
note,
I
would
like
to
First
say
thank
you
for
doing
this,
because
on
a
personal
level,
my
sister
had
a
heart
transplant
some
10
years
ago
and
she's
still
with
us
today
because
of
this
kind
of
a
program,
so
she
is
with
us
because
of
your
efforts.
I.
Thank
you
and
I'd
like
to
share
this
Proclamation
with
you
and
let's
come
on
over
this
way.
So
the
camera-
and
please
welcome
for
you
to
say
a
few
words
if
I
may
I'll.
Take
that
from
you
please
go
ahead.
Remember
you.
B
Next
I
would
like
to
welcome
Sabrina
ashkin
Sabrina
welcome,
come
on
over
she's,
a
member
of
the
board
of
the
American
Red
Cross
Pacific
Coast
region,
Miss
ashkin.
Thank
you
for
joining
us
tonight.
I
am
proud
to
present
to
you.
This
Proclamation
on
behalf
of
the
entire
city
council,
designating
March
2023
as
National
Red
Cross
month,
and
here
is
the
proclamation
for
you.
G
G
This
annual
tradition
began
in
1943
when
Franklin
D
Roosevelt
declared
the
first
Red
Cross
month
and
every
U.S
president
since
has
declared
March
as
Red
Cross
month.
So
we
celebrate
this
year.
We
celebrate
the
recognition
of
our
volunteers.
Our
donors,
who
make
this
life-saving
work
possible
I
just
want
to
share
a
couple
of
statistics
about
what
the
Red
Cross
has
done
in
the
Pacific
coast
region,
which
is
the
region
that
we
are
in.
So
we
have
held
225
blood
drives
this
past
year
we
have
assisted
nearly
100
families
who
have
experienced
Home
Fires.
G
We
handled
nearly
950
cases
in
our
service
to
the
Armed
Forces
branch
and
our
teams
have
helped
teach
nearly
9
000
residents
basic
first
aid
and
other
life-saving
skills.
So
this
month,
I
encourage
everyone
to
partner
with
us
to
help
by
taking
a
preparedness
class
donating
financially
giving
blood
or
by
becoming
a
Red
Cross
volunteer.
I
can
promise
you
that
by
doing
any
of
these
things,
it
will
promote
the
selfless
service
that
will
make
our
community
a
better
place
to
be
so.
G
H
She's
watching
I
think
my
wife,
of
course,
Sue
angler
is
heavily
involved
with
red
cross.
I
just
wanted
everybody
to
know
that
with
the
rains
and
everything
we've
had
in
the
past
few
weeks,
there's
active
actors,
there's
activity
right
now
up
and
down
the
coast,
there's
two
shelters
on
standby
in
Ventura,
County
itself
and
several
going
on
along
the
coast.
So
even
as
you
come
and
ask
us
to
support
the
Red
Cross,
we're
happy
to
do
it
well,.
B
H
Was
weighing
the
possibility
of
aging
her
so
council.
H
A
B
B
B
Presentation
this
evening
is
to
Proclaim
school
week,
March
27
to
31st
as
the
inaugural
city
of
Thousand
Oaks
crossing
guard
Appreciation
Week,
you
guys
are
well
trained,
you're
up
here
in
front.
This
is
excellent.
Thank
you.
I
am
pleased
this
evening
to
welcome
Mike
Hauser,
one
of
our
City's
finest,
the
city's
Transit
Pro
program
manager,
who
also
oversees
the
city
crossing
guard
program
to
provide
some
brief
comments
about
the
program
and
the
dedicated
group
of
our
area
residents
working
to
provide
safe
Crossing
for
school
children
in
the
community,
Mike.
I
Thank
you,
Mr
Mayor,
my
association
with
the
crossing
guard
program
began
14
years
ago
and
I've
been
proud
the
past
two
years
school
years
to
lead
this
remarkable
group
of
individuals.
Our
program
provides
crossing
guard
assistance
to
17
area
schools
at
this
at
this
time
and
it's
led
by
our
two
senior
guards
standing
next
to
me.
Cindy
Patterson
and
Lucy
Rojas.
I
I,
don't
believe
any
agency
is
blessed
with
a
more
dedicated
and
caring
group
of
individuals,
some
of
who
have
been
providing
this
service
to
the
community
for
over
30
years,
including
Debbie
who's
in
the
audience
with
us.
This
evening,
the
students,
parents
and
staff,
the
schools
they
support,
have
nothing
but
praise
for
their
efforts,
and
we
appreciate
the
city's
council's
recognition
of
their
service
to
the
community.
I
I
would
also
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
make
a
Shameless
plug
for
those
who
may
be
viewing
this,
that
we
have
a
very
urgent
need
for
crossing
guards
to
support
our
current
operations
and
to
supply
crossing
guards
to
the
three
schools
that
are
currently
authorized
for
across
the
guard,
but
do
not
have
one
applying
is
very
easy
and
can
be
done
online.
Please
visit
www.tokes.org
careers.
I
We
have
openings
for
both
regular
daily
assignments
at
specific
schools,
as
well
as
substitute
on-call
openings
that
can
be
flexible
around
other
jobs
and
other
commitments,
including
College,
even
so
on
behalf
of
the
25
crossing
guards
currently
working
the
program.
We
thank
the
city
council
very
much
for
this
recognition
and
support.
B
B
C
This
is
the
time
and
place
for
public
comments.
Speakers
are
requested
to
State
their
name
and
community
of
residence
for
the
record.
Four
individuals
have
requested
to
speak
and
pursuant
to
council
standards,
speakers
are
allowed
three
minutes.
The
yellow
light
displays
when
you
have
one
minute
remaining.
B
B
Let
you
know
when
three
minutes
is
up
Betty
you
are
on
zoom
and
next
up
would
be
only
per
negos
norrison
in
my
clothes,
please
come
on
up
and
just
have
a
seat
in
the
reserve
chair
there
you'll
be
next
up
after
we
finish,
the
zoom
call
so
come
on
down
and
just
sit
in
the
reserve
chair
right
there
behind
the
podium,
Betty
you're
on
we're
listening.
J
I'm,
the
Reverend
Dr
Betty
Stapleford,
a
almost
25-year
resident
of
Thousand
Oaks
and
a
member
of
the
American
Association
of
University
women
there's
been
a
lot
in
the
news.
Excuse
me,
T.O
is
a
City
and
I'm
not
answer
that
question,
because,
as
an
older
middle
class
white
woman
I'm
not
qualified
to
do
that,
I,
don't
experience
our
city
in
the
same
ways
as
residents
or
people
of
color.
J
To
what
I
do
know
is
that
I
have
seen
and
heard
about
a
number
of
racist
actions
here
in
our
town,
a
teacher
from
one
of
our
local
high
schools
was
in
a
restaurant
not
too
very
long
ago.
When
a
young
man
said
to
those
standing
around
him,
you
know
they
should
have
assigned
you're
saying
no
Mexicans
allowed.
J
J
There
have
been
a
number
of
swastikas
that
have
been
placed
on
both
public
and
private
property.
There
was
a
broadcast
of
a
speech
by
Hitler,
an
outdoor
High,
School
PA
system
and
I
saw
a
picture
of
someone
wearing
a
t-shirt,
a
local
Shopper
and
a
t-shirt
with
an
extremely
derogatory
statement
about
Jews.
J
J
That's
not
everybody
here
in
The,
Conejo,
Valley
or
in
Thousand
Oaks,
but
we
do
have
those
actions
that
happen
and
they
hurt
Conejo
Park
Creek
Park
was
a
wonderful
event,
but
it
wasn't
enough-
and
we
have
to
remember
that
it
was
not
put
on
by
our
city.
It
was
put
on
by
private
individuals
and
groups
in
our
city.
I
believe
that
our
city
council
needs
to
stand
up
and
speak
out
for
its
residents
about
racism
here
in
Thousand
Oaks.
J
B
K
Good
evening
my
name
is
olena
gorsen
and
I
am
the
vice
president
of
the
stop
joining
now
Club
at
Thousand
Oaks
High
School
in
2016
an
18
month
old,
visiting
his
grandparents
in
Westlake
Village
died
after
going
through
a
dog
door
and
drowning
in
the
Family
Pool
in
2019,
a
four-year-old
girl
was
with
her
mother
in
the
backyard
of
their
North
ranch
home.
When
her
mother,
unfortunately
lost
Focus,
the
little
girl
drowned
without
a
sound.
K
The
CDC
lists,
drowning
as
the
number
five
cause
of
death
in
the
United
States
and
the
number
one
cause
of
death
of
children
under
under
the
age
of
four.
On
average
in
the
United
States
Alone
10
people
die
from
accidental
drowning
per
day.
This
tragedy
is
one
hundred
percent
100
percent
preventable,
along
with
five
other
Stop
drowning
Now
High
School
chapters.
In
our
area
we
have
raised
money
and
awareness
for
drowning
prevention,
education.
K
We
have
presented
educational,
drowning
prevention,
Papa
chosen,
preschools
elementary
schools,
and
we
have
participated
in
many
City
events
in
our
community.
We
have
reached
over
600
students.
So
far.
We
are
asking
that
the
city
of
Thousand
Oaks
partner
with
us
and
help
promote
the
importance
of
water
safety
in
drowning
prevention.
K
The
city
of
Thousand
Oaks
can
help
educate
our
community
about
drowning
risks
by
becoming
a
Sydney
City
partner
in
our
ideal,
no
drown,
town
for
2
375
contribution
a
year
for
three
years
stopped
running
now.
Organization
will
help
the
city
host
a
water
safety
challenge
each
year
and
provide
a
stop
joining
now.
Drowning
educational
booth
at
City
events
staffed
by
stop
joining
Now,
High
School,
Club
volunteers.
K
In
addition,
the
stop
joining
now
organization
will
provide
co-branded,
swag
kits
and
easy
up
and
tablecloths
at
community
events
showing
our
City's
commitment
to
Drowning
education
as
we
work
together
to
educate
to
eliminate
drowning
in
Orange
County,
there's
an
active
County,
drowning
prevention
task
force
and
they
were
able
to
enact
a
county-wide
water
safety
day.
Seal
Beach,
Irvine
and
Laguna
Hills
have
established
no
drowned
talents
and
stop
joining
Now
is
working
with
the
drowning
prevention
task
force
in
the
Inland
Empire.
K
It
would
be
amazing
to
be
able
to
do
something
like
this
in
Ventura
County
with
the
city
of
Thousand
Oaks.
Potentially,
serving
as
an
example
for
the
fight
against
drowning,
this
is
something
positive.
We
can
do
for
our
community
to
become
a
leader
in
drowning
prevention.
Let's
be
proactive
and
prevent
any
future
drownings
in
our
community.
K
B
L
In
the
words
of
my
favorite
comedians,
what
up
Council
it's
good
to
see
this
Council
for
the
first
time
giving
public
comment,
I'm
the
bike
guy
self-proclaimed
in
Thousand,
Oaks
and
so
I
want
to
talk
about
bikes.
First
of
all,
I
want
to
highlight
a
ride.
I
did
this
weekend.
L
It
was
the
95th
Anniversary
of
the
Saint
Francis
Dam
flood
collapse
and
I
rode
that
route
on
my
bicycle
from
the
dam
to
the
ocean
in
Oxnard,
something
that
impacted
our
community
that
not
a
lot
of
people
know
about
so
trying
to
bring
some
awareness
now
to
bikes
on
city
streets
and,
unfortunately,
I'm
talking
about
crashes.
Today
there
was
a
31
year
old
in
May
of
2022
who
passed
away
riding
an
electric
motorcycle,
not
an
electric
bike.
There
is
a
distinction
going
up
to
Dos
Vientos
on
borchard
road.
L
He
unfortunately
lost
his
life
just
a
couple
weeks
ago
there
was
three
adolescent
boys
aged
15,
14,
15
and
16..
They
were
riding
an
electric
motorcycle
again,
no
pedals
indos
Vientos
and
they
struck
a
Mercedes.
The
woman
in
the
vehicle
stopped
She
rendered
Aid.
All
three
of
the
children
to
in
the
reports
did
go
to
Dos
Vientos
Hospital.
L
Let's
see
here
the
reason
I'm
bringing
all
this
up
is.
We
need
to
educate
these
young
people
on
traffic
education
on
how
to
ride
a
bike
safely
in
the
city.
I'm,
also
a
part
of
the
city's
bicycle
advocacy
committee
that
that
we
have
and
we
have
discussed,
bringing
education
to
the
schools.
However,
it's
usually
the
schools
that
request
that
education
after
something
has
already
happened,
and
so
I'm
here
asking
well
while
I
don't
have
the
organization
ready
to
provide
training.
L
I
am
looking
into
getting
certified
to
provide
bike
training
at
bike.
Rodeos
things
like
this,
but
I
would
love
if
the
city
could
engage
with
the
school
district
to
set
up
a
Bike
Rodeo.
We
have
amazing
class
one
bike
paths
at
Conejo,
Creek
South.
This
could
be
a
joint
venture
between
the
city,
the
school
district
and
crpd
to
provide
education.
At
this
time,
parents
are
liable
for
the
kids
and
I
think
now
kids
aren't
watching
outside
of
the
car
when
their
parents
are
driving
them
around
town.
B
L
B
M
I've
been
in
this
business
for
32
years,
33
years
now,
and
it's
it's
something
that
for
some
reason,
staff
will
take
up
and
they
just
kind
of
let
it
go
away
and
figure
that'll
take
care
of
itself
or
something,
and
it
doesn't
and
that's
why
I'm
here,
because
I
actually
live
in
the
area,
and
this
is
my
city
council.
M
So,
unlike
when
you
go
to
Los,
Angeles
you've
talked
to
14
people.
After
16
hours
of
conversation,
I
can
go,
go,
get
dinner
in
a
couple
minutes
and
it's
kind
of
Handy,
but
it.
But
the
issue
really
is
the
irrigation
systems
that
they
attach
to
the
filters
their
your
staff
is
allowing
the
wrong
ones
to
be
attached
and
then
they
fail.
And
then
everybody
says:
oh
great
Water
Systems
don't
work,
but
they
actually
do
and
they've
been
around
for
a
long
time.
M
M
If
you
want
everybody
to
be
happy,
you
have
to
have
the
right
irrigation
system
attached
to
it
and
that's
what
we're
asking
at
your
permit
department
require
the
right
irrigation
systems
attached
to
the
gray
water
filter
system,
and
that's
it
I
appreciate
all
that
you
do
taking
your
time
and
service.
I
really
do.
Thank.
N
Yeah
thanks
just
a
couple
quick
follow-ups,
I
know:
Mr
chem
Giles
is
going
to
step
down
to
chat
with
you,
he's
the
man
in
the
blue
shirt
right
behind
you.
He
oversees
our
community
development
team
and
we'll
chat
more
about
the
gray
water.
N
In
relation
to
the
node
round
town
I
know
we
had
some
engagement
with
those
folks
last
year
and
I
know:
Miss
Melissa
Hurtado
chatted
with
them
Melissa's
also
going
to
follow
up
with
Mrs
Stapleton,
because
she
heads
up
our
efforts
at
being
a
convener
as
it
relates
to
questions
of
Dei
and
then
in
relation
to
bike
safety.
I
can
already
see
our
police
chief
is
chatting
with
Trent.
Over
there
we
have
had
some
tragic
accidents
of
late.
N
We
had
one
very
recently
that
was
a
motorized,
a
a
essentially
a
motorcycle
riding
the
wrong
way
with
three
kids
on
it.
So
that
is
a
it
was
a
tragic
situation.
Thankfully,
they're
recovering
from
injuries
now
severe
injuries
at
that,
but
there's
a
lot
of
Education.
That's
that's
needed
out
there,
and
so
our
police
team
is
already
in
that
process.
Chief,
Paris
and
I
were
actually
talking
about
it
earlier.
This
morning,
so
on
the
same
wavelength
here.
B
B
We
have
any.
We
have
two
speakers,
so
we
have
three
minutes
for
this
public
speakers
regarding
consent.
Calendar
first,
one
we
have
on
Zoom
is
cat
film,
and
after
that
we
will
have
Betsy
Conley,
who
will
speak
after
cat
cat
you're
on.
O
Hi
good
evening,
I
will
try
to
just
take
three
minutes
good
evening.
Honorable
Baron
council
members.
My
name
is
Kat
and
I'm,
a
natural
resource,
professional
I'm,
a
resident
of
Thousand,
Oaks
and
I'm
here
on
behalf
of
the
Conejo
Climate
Coalition,
coming
to
you
tonight
to
talk
about
the
groundwater
project
at
Los,
Robles
golf
course,
and
just
generally,
the
sustainability
of
The
Conejo
Valley
groundwater
basin
I
understand
the
project.
Before
you
deny
my
consent.
O
Calendar
is
not
directly
related
to
what
I
want
to
talk
about,
but
I
just
want
to
share
some
information
from
my
experience
working
on
groundwater
sustainability
plans
and
the
the
knowledge
that
I
bring
to
this
project,
because
I
have
some
concerns
and
I
just
want
to
raise
them
and
make
you
aware
of
them
to
manage
a
groundwater
Basin
sustainably.
You
develop
something
called
minimum
thresholds,
and
this
is
a
numerical
Line
in
the
Sand
that
you
don't
want
to
cross.
O
That's
been
relatively
untouched
and
we
really
need
to
make
sure
that
we're
sustaining
our
namesake
trees,
our
Oaks
so
Oaks,
like
many
Majestic
Valley
Oaks
here
in
Thousand
Oaks,
can
use
groundwater
at
around
depths
of
about
80
feet
or
lower,
but
the
minimum
thresholds
that
are
set
for
several
wells
in
The
Conejo
Valley
are
much
lower
than
this
rooting
depth.
This
is
the
rooting
depth
that
you
don't
want
to
go
below.
This
could
spell
disaster
for
our
already
drought
stressed
Oaks,
and
they
are
still
drought
stressed.
O
Despite
this
one
good
winter,
it
doesn't
make
up
for
a
historic
desertification
Trend
that
we're
seeing
in
Southern
California.
So
in
addition,
groundwater
research
shows
that
plants
with
readily
available
groundwater
can
better
withstand
extreme
temperature.
Stress
like
what
we're
going
to
be
seeing
and
what
we
are
already
experiencing
with
climate
change.
O
Your
engineers
will
tell
you
that
this
Basin
is
not
overdrafted
and
therefore
doesn't
require
compliance
under
sustainable
groundwater
management
act
and
doesn't
require
us
to
consider
groundwater
dependent
ecosystems,
but
I
think
it
would
be
a
real
shame
if
the
city
of
Thousand
Oaks
lost
multiple
stands
of
Valley
Oaks
and
Coast
Live
Oaks,
simply
because
it
doesn't
it's
not
required
by
law
to
consider
them.
I
think
that'd
be
a
real
shame.
Considering
that
our
City's
name
is
Thousand
Oaks.
This
project
doesn't
need
to
come
to
a
halt.
B
O
Who
asks
that
the
city
preemptively
anticipate
the
future
requirements
of
Sigma
and
confirm
the
presence
of
gtes
in
the
Basin
or
groundwater
dependent
ecosystems,
and
that
the
groundwater
management
plan
incorporate
mitigation
of
undesirable
impacts
to
these
gdes,
including
Oak,
stands
in
the
refinement
of
those
minimum
thresholds
and
inform
the
sustainable
yield
of
the
Basin
with
those
beneficial
users
in
mind?
Thanks
appreciate
your
time.
Thank
you
appreciate.
P
Good
evening
Betsy
Connolly
I
am
a
23
resident
of
Thousand
Oaks
and
I
would
like
to
talk
about
the
used
bus
purchase,
I'm
glad
to
see
that
that
at
least
one
of
the
potential
uses
for
this
bus
is
to
support
the
summer
beach
bus
program.
But
I
do
want
to
urge
Council
to
consider
maintaining
the
bus
program
for
the
entire
summer,
regardless
of
the
usage
rate
last
year
in
the
year
before
the
bus
was
canceled
after
a
few
short
weeks.
P
The
year
before
that
covid
canceled
it
and
I
think
that
we
need
to
invest
in
programs
that
we
believe
in
and
give
them
a
chance
to
recover
from
Damage
Done
when
the
bus
only
runs
for
a
few
weeks
before
it
gets
canceled
families
forget
it
exists,
a
tradition
is
broken
and
it's
necessary
to
invest
money
in
bringing
it
back
and
making
it
stronger,
not
pulling
the
plug
after
you
dipped
your
toe
in
the
water.
So
let's
get
the
bus.
P
I
can
think
of
all
kinds
of
other
great
things
to
use
that
bus
for
and
I
hope
that
it
will
be
affordable
so
that
Community
groups
who
would
like
to
use
it
to
engage
the
community
in
a
variety
of
ways,
they're
able
to
I'm
a
big
believer
in
the
Summer
Bus
program,
but
I
do
believe
it
is
damaging
not
to
commit
to
supporting
it
for
the
full
summer.
Thank
you.
N
Just
I
had
to
just
share
and
I
know:
Mr
Hauser
is
here
and
he'll
catch
you
afterwards,
Betsy
thanks
for
the
comments
the
that
is
actually-
and
this
is
a
credit
to
Mr
Hauser-
gives
me
a
chance
to
share
that.
It
was
his
his
Ingenuity
that
came
up
with
this
idea.
Renting
the
bus
previously
is
a
cost
burden,
and
so
we
envisioned
this
being
used
for
that
purpose
and
having
ownership
of
that
bus
will
allow
us
to
bring
that
cost
burden
of
the
service
down,
thus
providing
additional
consistency.
N
H
B
Q
Q
B
R
Mayor
now,
I
pulled
these
two
because
they
both
have
something
to
do
with
each
other,
and
it
has
that
has
to
do
with
water
and
I
thought
the
public
might
be
interested
in
a
little
bit
of
what
is
contained
in
these
two
issues.
Jay
has
to
do
with
the
groundwater
that
we've
been
talking
about
tapping
at
the
golf
course
and
it
in
fact,
if
not,
it
would
come
up.
R
Maybe
you
could
even
talk
a
little
bit
about
cat
sounds
concern
about
you
know,
tapping
groundwater
over
drafting
or
whatever
from
what
I
understand
the
groundwater
is
public
up
out
of
the
ground
there.
So
it's
pretty
much
refilled
from
the
60s
when
we
used
to
be
tapped
for
cattle
grazing,
but
the
the
key
thing
here
is
that
we
now
have
a
way
to
treat
this
groundwater.
Maybe
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
that.
Would
you
not
her
yeah.
S
Sure
absolutely
good
evening,
council
members,
this
project
and
the
item
tonight
is
limited
in
its
scope.
The
item
on
the
consent
calendar
tonight
is
a
additional
engineering
study
to
help
uncover
more
information
on
the
project,
but
in
terms
of
the
background
council
member
Adam,
this
well
at
the
golf
course
has
been
used
for
almost
40
years
now
and
has
been
in
use
to
irrigate
the
golf
course.
S
So
it's
not
we're
not
talking
about
a
new
well
or
a
new
extraction
of
the
ground,
and
so
that
that's
important
to
note
and
it's
currently
being
used
for
that
purpose
as
well.
The
the
water
quality
has
been
declining
and
therefore
the
consideration
came
up
of,
what's
the
best
highest
and
best
use
of
that
water
and
with
drought,
considerations
than
others
and
trying
to
diversify
our
water
portfolio.
S
That
water
would
be
whatever
final
design
would
be
done
in,
which
is
still
well
in
the
future,
would
be
done
within
the
yield
of
the
Basin.
We
would
not
be
over
drafting
the
Basin,
because
there's
so
little
groundwater
being
used
out
of
the
Basin,
currently
we're
on
a
very
low
priority.
There's
no
impacts
that
are
apparent.
So
some
of
the
comments
that
the
the
speaker
presented
are
are
definitely
things
we're
looking
at
and
we'll
continue
to
look
at.
We
certainly
don't
want
to
impact.
S
You
know
negatively
impact
the
environment
and
that's
all
going
to
be
part
of
whatever
final
environmental
document
is
prepared
on
the
project,
but
in
terms
of
knowing
that
it's
an
existing
well,
this
is
not
a
new
well
and
many
of
the
trees
around
the
golf
course
are
being
fed
by
irrigation
and
Golf.
Course
run
up
and
surface
runoff
as
opposed
to
the
you
know,
deep
groundwater.
That
Basin
is
also
a
very
fractured
Basin.
It's
it's
not
interconnected,
very
well
because
of
the
the
volcanic
and
the
Bedrock
underground.
S
T
R
And
as
cat
salmon
said,
we
don't
I
overdrafted,
of
course.
However,
we
do
want
to
try
to
be
as
independent
with
our
water
consumption
as
possible,
but
the
key
here
in
my
mind
is
that
we've
found
a
way
to
treat
it
without
building
a
treatment
plan
ourselves
which
originally
we
talked
about,
which
would
be
very
expensive
but
less
virgins.
Municipal
Water
District
is
building
that
plant
and
we
could
route
it
through
them
and
back
to
us
so
that.
R
I
think
that's
significant
and
and
the
second
one
everyone's
everyone's
aware
that
we've
had
to
conserve
water
and
we're
at
a
a
level
four
water
consumption
right
now,
which
is
one
day
a
week,
and
this
consent
item
is
proposed
and
we
change
that.
Is
it
not
correct.
S
Just
today,
Metropolitan
moved
their
themselves
from
the
one
day
per
week.
Mandate
moved
off
of
that,
and
so
that's
allowing
us,
and
it's
basically
happening
in
real
time.
R
U
S
Correct
we're
still
evaluating
what
that
sustainable
volume
is,
we've
done
some
pump
tests
and
we're
going
to
use
that
data,
and
probably
additional
you
know,
pumping
and
flow
tests
will
be
done
in
the
future
to
find
that
Balancing
Act
of
what
can
be
extracted,
while
still
you
know
achieving
that
recharge
and
having
the
the
levels
not
not
drop.
Okay,.
U
And
and
then
in
terms
of
Transport
you'd
mentioned
pumping
water
up
from
Hill
Canyon.
How
are
how
are
we
intending
to
get
the
water
from
either
Hill
Canyon
to
the
golf
course
to
less
virginous
and
and
bad.
S
Yeah
with
the
extensive
pipelines
and
pump
stations
so
that
that's
the
that's
what's
being
evaluated
in
the
study,
the
route
from
the
golf
course
to
West
Lake,
where
Las
Vegas
is
going
to
build
a
future
Pure
Water
Project
is
less
less
challenging
the
one
from
Hill
Canyon
coming
all
the
way
up
would
be
involved.
You
know
more
infrastructure,
larger
pump
stations
and
more.
S
Right
significantly,
yeah
several
hundred
feet
more
elevation
to
to
overcome,
but
but
because
of
the
Water
Resource
needs
we're.
You
know
wanting
to
at
least
look
under
that
and
evaluate
those
scenarios.
Okay,.
U
And
so,
but
we're
talking
about
pipelines,
not
trees,
not
trucks
rather
correct,
right,
okay
and
then
my
final
question
is
you
mentioned
an
environmental
report.
Would
that
report
whenever
it
it
happens
along
this
timeline?
U
S
Mnd
they
all
they
do
look
at
tree
impacts.
However,
the
specific
issue
of
groundwater
dependent
ecosystems
is
not
typically
in
involved
unless
you're
that's
triggered
by
the
fact
of
you
having
your
Basin
is
a
high
priority.
Basin
or
your
Basin
is
overdrafted
or
too
many
people
are
pumping
or
you're.
You
have
to
do
a
Statewide
groundwater
sustainability
plan,
because
there's
no.
U
S
Not
for
this
specific
impact,
the
tree
impact
study
normally
would
be
what
impact
to
the
to
the
surface.
You
know:
are
there
tree
removals?
Are
there
a
tree?
You
know:
are
you
going
to
put
the
treatment
plant
in
place
of
an
oak
tree
grow
over
those
type
of
considerations?
That
is
typically,
you
know
a
standard
item
to
be
evaluated
in
the
environmental
document.
This
other
element
is
a
kind
of
a
sub
component.
S
It's
an
additional
piece,
and
that
is
not
required
to
be
evaluated
because
of
the
fact
that
there's
so
little
pumping
going
on.
So
that
would
be
a
potential
future
item
to
be
included
or
evaluated.
As
I
mentioned,
that's
a
required
component.
If
you're
doing
a
groundwater
sustainability
plan,
our
Basin
doesn't
require
that.
But
it's
something
that
you
know
that
certainly
could
be
done,
or
at
least
evaluated
in
some.
In
some
regards.
S
H
Mr
Engler,
thank
you.
Mr
Mayor,
don't
go
too
far,
I
think
I.
Think
Miss
Elm
did
bring
up
a
couple
of
good
items
that
we
need
to
be
aware
of
is
is
this.
Is
this
project
the
project
we're
approving
tonight
is
limited
in
simply
the
engineering
studies
as
to
how
and
the
cost
it
would
take
and
Is
it
feasible
to
to
move
the
water
from
the
either
the
hill
Canyon
or
the
golf
course
area.
That's
that's
what
we're
approving
tonight.
H
S
H
We'll
we'll
have
a
little
bit
of
lead
time
and
trying
to
figure
out
the
impacts
of
any
bumping
at
at
that
location.
Yes,
okay,
very
good!
Thank
you!
Thank
you
and
then
one
other
quick
thing:
Kevin
Mr,
Mayor,
sorry
I
just
wanted
to
thank.
On
the
other
item,
item
k
I
wanted
to
thank
the
citizens.
H
We've
we've
been
blessed
this
year
with
a
good
amount
of
rain,
which
is
wonderful,
but
the
citizens
really
step
it
up
this
year
and
helped
us
get
over
the
the
problem
that
we
are
facing
last
summer
when
we
had
to
go
to
the
one
day
a
week
watering.
My
hat
is
off
to
everybody
who
helped
contribute
and
lower
the
demand
on
the
system
so
that
we
could
get
through
it
and
thank
God.
We've
got
a
good
rain.
H
U
B
B
C
Hearing
advertised
is
required
by
law
is
open
to
consider
agenda
item
11a
city
council
boards,
commissions
and
committees,
meeting
procedures,
revisions
speakers
are
requested
to
State
their
name
for
the
record.
Three
individuals
have
presented
speaker
cards
and
pursuant
to
council
standards,
each
speaker
will
have
five
minutes.
C
C
First,
we
have
the
standards
of
operation
resolution.
Second,
the
guidelines
for
public
input
resolution
and,
finally,
the
City
Council
meetings
procedures
ordinance
as
is
best
practice.
Each
of
the
documents
has
been
revised
as
needed
and
at
least
every
few
years.
The
latest
revision
to
the
two
resolutions
was
done
in
2011
and
the
ordinance
was
looked
at
in
2020,
which
is
when
we
added
permission
to
have
electronic
signatures.
C
When
we
started
using
DocuSign
changes
to
the
three
documents,
either
memorialize
current
practices
and
procedures
are
updates
needed
because
of
changes
to
state
law
or
are
needed
to
clarify
or
clean
up
language.
These
revisions
incorporate
changes
to
the
law,
specifically
from
Senate
Bill
1100,
outlining
protocols
regarding
disruption
of
a
meeting
and
assembly
Bill
2647
regarding
the
distribution
of
documents
to
city
council
and
the
public
prior
to
the
meeting.
C
C
Just
as
a
reminder,
the
standards
of
operation
were
initially
adopted
back
in
August
of
1989.,
so
the
first
change
to
discuss
is
the
mayor
will
have
the
sole
discretion
to
continue
public
comment
period
until
later
in
the
meeting
instead
of
requiring
the
concurrence
of
city
council.
This
will
provide
consistency
between
the
standards
of
operation
resolution
and
the
guidelines
to
public
input
resolution
and
just
for
some
historical
information
in
the
past
seven
years.
C
This
has
only
been
considered
once
and
we
didn't
actually
do
it,
and
that
was
for
one
of
our
general
plan
discussions
back
in
2021,
a
second
change.
We
remove
specific
reference
to
types
of
posted
meetings
and
instead
we
simply
refer
to
meetings
posted
per
the
brown
act.
This
will
save
us
having
to
update
our
own
resolutions
when
the
state
decides
to
update
the
brown
Act.
C
C
Then
the
question
of
whether
to
let
it
later
agendize
the
matter
and
to
direct
staff
to
prepare
a
report
shall
be
voted
on.
If
a
majority
of
the
city
council
supports
that
request,
then
the
city
manager
will
determine
when
to
place
the
item
on
a
future
agenda
based
on
the
time
necessary
to
complete
the
research
staff
workload
and
how
that
might
affect
work
on
city
council
established
procedures.
C
The
next
resolution
is
the
guidelines
for
public
input,
and
this
one
is
easy.
It's
just
one
change
this
one.
Just
for
some
historical
information
was
adopted
originally
in
1995,
and
this
the
changes
to
also
propose
that
the
mayor
has
sole
discretion
to
move
public
comment
period
to
later
in
the
meeting
and
again
this
will
provide
consistency
and
again
this
has
only
been
used
or
considered
not
even
used
once
in
the
last
seven
years.
C
And
finally,
we
have
our
ordinance
on
city
council,
meeting
procedures.
This
was
originally
adopted
in
1984,
and
the
major
changes
that
are
proposed
tonight
include
the
following.
So
we've
added
language
stating
that
altering
or
defacing
approved
minutes
is
prohibited
as
set
forth
in
the
government
code
and
is
punishable
by
imprisonment
and
or
fine.
C
We've
also
added
decorum
guidelines
to
reflect
correct
terminology
and
to
comply
with
recently
adopted
State
legislation
and
we've
also
corrected
terminology.
Regarding
the
method
in
which
a
city
council
member
views,
a
missed
portion
so
that
he
or
she
may
be
able
to
later
participate
in
the
discussion
and
actually
vote
on
the
matter,.
H
In
the
past,
we've
we've
been
a
little
insistent
on
people
using
their
names
and
city
that
of
residents,
and
that
sort
of
thing
that's
no
longer
required,
or
is
that
no
longer
a
valid
way
to
go
about
things?
Is
that
what
I
understand
it's.
C
Not
required,
we
cannot
compel
someone
to
State
their
name
and
we
do
for
meeting
management.
We
need
some
sort
of
identifier
and
in
the
past
we've
had
someone
choose,
you
know
speaker,
one
or
speaker
a
or
even
get
creative
and
say
Pebbles
or
Bam
Bam,
so
yeah.
We
cannot
compel
them
to
use
their
own
name.
Just
an
identifier.
H
B
Any
others
I
have
a
question
for
you.
The
three
question
rule
was
put
in
place
just
so
other
council
members
have
a
chance
to
share
their
questions
and
not
be
monopolized
by
one
council
member.
Is
it
clearly
stated
there
that
they
can
come
back
that
council
member
can
come
back
and
give
three
more
questions
if
they
wish,
until
the
questions
are
exhausted,.
C
It
depends
on
your
reading
of
it.
We
do
say
at
a
time,
so
we
say
three
questions
at
a
time.
We
don't
explicitly
say
that
that
council
member
can
then
come
around
again.
So.
R
B
R
Yeah
on
that
business
of
the
public
comment
where
the
mayor
could
unilaterally
started,
it
cut
it
off
at
6
45..
How
did
you
phrase
that
it
it
concurs
with
resolutions
and
it.
C
Oh
because
we
do
mention,
we
mentioned
it
in
two
different
resolutions,
so
we
mentioned
it
in
the
standards
of
operation
resolution
and
we
mention
it
in
the
input
for
public
guidelines.
So
it's
just.
If
we're
going
to
change
it
one
place,
we
need
to
also
update
the
other
resolution,
okay
and
that
that's
the
only
consistency
and
policy,
it's
not
from
policy
somewhere
else.
Consistency.
R
B
Thank
you
for
the
comment.
We
tend
to
be
rather
civil
and
cordial
here
on
this
Council,
which
I
appreciate
any
other
comments
we
good
alrighty.
So
we
do
have
some
speakers.
We
have
three
of
them
and
given
this
is
a
public
hearing
and
the
few
number
of
speakers,
we
can
do
this
for
five
minutes:
correct,
Madam,
clerk,
very
good.
So,
first
up
we
on
on
Zoom,
we
have
Rosanna
Guerrera
and
then
after
that
is
Nelson
bus
Rosanna.
If
you've
got
five
minutes,
please
proceed.
V
Hello,
my
name
is
Rosanna
Garen
I'm,
30-year
resident
of
the
city
of
Thousand
Oaks.
As
a
citizen
of
Thousand
Oaks.
It
is
important
to
voice
and
amplify
our
opinions
and
bring
forth
those
thoughts
to
our
elected
officials.
It
is
part
of
our
heritage
as
being
an
American
and
a
First
Amendment
right.
Public
engagement
should
be
a
free
and
open
exchange
of
ideas
and
welcomed.
Voting
for
our
public
officials
should
not
end
the
process
of
public
engagement,
but
rather
continue
so
that
the
voters
hold.
You
are
elected
officials
accountable,
I,
understand
that
time
limitations
are
necessary.
V
However,
we
should
feel
free
to
openly
bring
our
grievances
to
the
city
council
without
fear
of
admonishment.
You
want
the
electorate
to
be
fully
engaged
any
limitations
or
pressure
regarding
rules
around
engagement.
Go
against.
Why
we
vote
why
we
are
a
free
Society
free
speech
is
a
neces
is
necessary
for
public
discourse.
Thank
you.
So
much.
B
W
Thank
you
very
much
mayor.
Thank
you
city
council
for
listening
to
me.
Real
quick
I
just
had
three
quick
comments
on
this
on
this
set
of
plans
and
I.
Think
you
guys
have
all
been
thinking
about
them
as
well.
Number
one
giving
one
member
of
the
city
council
Soul
discretion
for
how
public
input
is
handled,
seems
inappropriate
to
me
considering
it's
a
ceremonial
position
and
not
elected
directly
by
the
public.
W
There
is
currently
a
process
in
place
where
the
council
can
vote
to
table
public
speak
to
speaking
to
the
end
and
so
you're,
basically
giving
up
your
ability,
as
directly
elected
officials,
to
give
it
to
one
person
that
you
elect
ceremonially
and
tend
as
a
as
a
civil
group,
to
rotate
civilly
amongst
yourselves.
So
I
think
that
that
should
be
skipped.
W
W
The
third
one
I
wanted
to
comment
on
is
the
agendizing
items
becoming
a
two-stage
process:
I'm
not
thrilled
with
that
idea,
because
that
presupposes
that
everybody
on
the
council
has
heard
the
arguments
for
whatever
the
item
is
to
be
agendized
and
has
already
made
a
decision.
That
is
inherently
undemocratic,
because
the
reason
it
comes
before
you
is
so
that
you
can
debate
these
issues
and
form
you
the
ideas
in
your
mind,
based
upon
the
full
arguments.
W
So,
if
you're,
if
you're
disallowing
items
to
be
brought
before
you
by
one
individual
who's,
an
elected
official
who
reports
directly
to
the
people
without
an
actual
debate
about
the
item,
we're
we're
kind
of
short-circuiting
our
own
democracy
and
I
feel.
If
that's
inappropriate,
I
appreciate
you
guys
accepting
my
input
and
thank
you
for
your
time.
X
Five
minutes
is
such
a
luxury.
Also,
you
got
my
last
name
pronounced
right.
Thank
you
very
much
happens
infrequently
to
say
the
least.
I
am
Kyle
rohrbach
I've
lived
in
Thousand
Oaks.
Almost
my
entire
life
and
I
am
here
mostly
to
provide
my
thoughts,
particularly
on
the
guidelines
for
public
input,
for
for
several
reasons,
couple
of
which
are
practical,
one
of
which
is
is
a
legal,
actual
concern
and,
and
the
last
is
actually
on
principle,
but
the
first
the
Practical
ones
are
I'd.
X
Ask
you,
as
City
Council
Members,
to
put
yourselves
in
the
shoes
of
a
resident
who
would
like
to
speak
here
at
in
the
chambers
which
I
think
we
could
all
agree.
X
We
use
more
engagement
from
from
our
residents
if
there
exists,
which
it
sounds
like
there
already
does
exist,
a
possibility
that
at
any
time
you
know
the
mayor
and
with
concurrence
of
city
council
could
kind
of
Punt
further
public
comments
to
later
in
the
meeting,
if
you've
planned
your
evening
with
an
expect
that
you'd
speak
more
or
less
at
the
top
of
the
meeting
after
special
presentations
and
consent
items
and
then
are
faced
with
the
possibility
that
you
might
not
actually
speak
depending
on
how
many
speakers
there
are
until
significantly
later
in
the
meeting,
there
is
a
real
chance
that,
given
busy
lives,
jobs,
families,
transportation
that
you
may
just
choose
not
to
participate
at
all
or
you
may
not
come
at
all
or
may
not
jump
on
that
Zoom
call
at
all.
X
So
the
Practical
concern
is
that
I
actually
think
it
could
dissuade
people
from
engaging
in
civil
discourse,
which
is
something
that
I
think
is
against
what
our
goals
are.
The
second
practical
concern
is
that,
as
someone
else
has
mentioned,
the
mayor
rotates-
and
while
that
is
you
know,
obviously
civilly
done
and
and
as
we've
already
heard,
these
tools
are
used.
Extraordinarily
infrequently.
X
The
subjectivity
of
what
one
mayor
might
determine
is
too
many
speakers
at
6.
45
could
vary
quite
differently
from
what
another
mayor
determines.
Is
too
many
speakers
at
6
45,
and
it
kind
of
goes
back
to
that
first
point,
which
is
that
to
me,
goes
against
building
confidence
in
the
public
that
we
know
what
that
threshold
is
that
we
can
determine
when
we
may
or
may
not
have
an
opportunity
to
speak
towards
the
top
of
the
meeting
or
later
in
the
meeting.
Again
it
kind
of
goes
against.
The
the
whole
purpose
of
of
public
comment.
X
You
know.
Does
that
put
us
in
any
kind
of
legal
situation
where
there
could
be
a
scenario
where
someone
might
say
that
the
city
council
is
is
potentially
harming
a
First
Amendment
right
to
speak.
I
would
love
to
hear
any
any
thoughts
from
City
attorney
on
that,
and
the
last
is
is
on
principle,
and
that
is
at
any
point
in
time.
As
our
city
goals
have
outlined,
we
should
be
encouraging
a
welcoming
space
to
engage
in
civil
discourse
where
people
can
debate
ideas.
X
Whether
we
agree
or
disagree
on
anything
is
the
whole
point
and
any
item,
even
in
this
case
it
seems
small
and
trivial
in
an
effort
to
make
resolutions
consistent
with
one
another.
There
is
a
slippery
slope
to
me
that
that
on
principle
says
that
we
are
moving
away
from
having
this
be
a
more
welcoming
environment
rather
than
one
that
is
encouraging
people
to
come.
X
So
I
would
ask
that
whatever
decision
you
make
tonight
that
you
do
so
through
the
lens
of
Are
We
is
the
decision
that
we're
about
to
make
one
that
is
going
to
have
more
folks
engaged
rather
than
fewer,
and
if
the
answer
is
fewer,
then
I
think
we
should
take
a
hard
look
as
to
what
the
right
decision
is
here
on
I.
Do
understand
the
need
to
make
resolutions
consistent,
so
I
suppose
the
other
question
I
would
have
is.
X
Could
the
other
resolution
be
brought
into
consistency
with
keeping
the
the
idea
of
having
city
council
concur
to
move
speakers
on?
So
thank
you
for
for
listening
to
my
thoughts
this
evening
and
hopefully
we'll
continue
to
have
that
opportunity
moving
forward
thanks.
Thank.
C
Yeah
I
would
think.
I
would
like
to
thank
everyone
for
their
comments.
What
I
heard
from
the
speakers
tonight,
this
whole
discretion
of
the
mayor
is
not
appropriate.
That's
a
policy
decision
that
the
council
can
make.
You
know
we're
here
just
to
to
make
sure
that
the
meeting
is
is
able
to
be
managed.
C
So
whatever
the
pleasure
of
the
council
is
also
the
three
question
rule
clarified,
I'm
I
have
no
problem.
We
can
add
language
that
says
you
know.
Council
members
can
ask
questions
after
their
initial.
Their
initial
turn
is
over
agendizing
in
this
do
two-step
process
again
these
are
just
a
Tools
in
order
to
manage
agendas.
These
things,
as
mentioned,
has
been
mentioned
before.
Many
of
these
things
have
never
come
up
as
issues,
but
it
is
good
to
have
a
framework
from
which
to
to
work.
C
Let's
see
what
else
did
I
write
down
subjectivity
of
the
mayor,
we
do
not
have
a
strong
mayor,
directly
elected
mayor.
Again,
that's
going
to
be
council's
policy.
However,
they
would
like
to
proceed
with
that
legal
slippery
slope.
I.
Might
let
the
City
attorney
come
to
that
and
yeah
go
ahead.
Thank.
D
You
all
right
just
a
couple
of
comments
to
add
on
to
the
city
clerk's
comments.
First
to
redress
the
actual
public
comments
regarding
masgara
and
the
importance
of
citizens
to
voice
your
opinion,
their
opinions.
That's
absolutely
true,
and
in
fact
the
city
has
significantly
expanding
public
engagement
via
remote
participation.
These
rules,
just
at
the
end
of
the
day,
remind
her
that
these
rules
are
meant
to
balance
the
rights
of
the
public
to
comment
and
the
need
for
the
city
to
conduct
its
business.
D
This
is
how
the
city
conducts
its
business
during
these
meetings
and
we
have
to
ensure
that
that
business
is
able
to
be
conducted,
but,
most
importantly
back
to
the
public
engagement.
What
these
rules
do
what
this
ordinance
does?
Is
it
actually
codifies
the
right
for
continued
Zoom
or
remote
participation
by
the
public
at
a
time
when
a
lot
of
cities
are
actually
eliminating
that
option
in
its
entirety?
So
you
know,
I
would
I
would
ask
you
to
look
at
what
the
language
says
and
and
From
staff's
perspective.
These
rules
are
actually
expanding.
D
Public
participation
and
engagement
with
respect
to
Mr
bus's
concerns
over
the
how
to
agendize
items
and
has
concerned
that
pre
supposes
that
the
other
council
members
have
heard
the
items
again.
If
you
look
at
that
process,
the
first,
the
first
step
is
to
actually
have
the
staff.
D
The
council
member
write
a
written
report
to
provide
information
and
provide
information
that
will
allow
the
city
council
as
a
whole,
or
at
least
as
a
majority,
to
decide
whether
to
direct
staff
to
spend
time
and
resources
to
research
and
bring
an
item
back
to
council
with
respect
to
Mr
rohrbach's
concerns
over
moving
public
comments
at
the
end
of
the
meeting
again.
D
This
is
based
on
the
need
to
balance
the
desire
of
the
public
to
comment
and
also
the
need
or
the
requirement
that
City
be
able
to
conduct
its
business
and
I
want
to
remind
you
that
the
way
that
the
city
operates
as
public
comments
is
very
different
than
the
way
the
brown
act
requires.
Cities
to
conduct
their
Pueblo
comments
and
the
way
a
lot
of
cities
actually
do.
Most
cities
just
comply
with
the
brown
act.
You
have
your
agenda
and
you
have
one
public
comment
period
for
the
entire
agenda
unless
there's
a
public
hearing.
D
We,
however,
have
a
public
comment
period
for
every
single
agenda
item.
So
a
member
of
the
public
has
several
occasions
to
come
and
talk
to
the
city
council
about
every
single
agenda
item.
So
by
the
time
we
get
to
the
actual
public
comment
period.
Those
comments
are
directed
towards
items
that
are
not
on
the
agenda
that
Council
can't
discuss
or
deliberate
on
because
they're
not
on
the
agenda
and
to
do
so
would
violate
the
brown
act.
D
So
so,
when
you're
trying
to
balance
the
the
rights
of
the
public
to
speak
and
and
and
provide,
you
know
and
engage
with
the
city
council,
they
absolutely
have
that
right,
but
we're
also
trying
to
balance
the
need
to
conduct
the
business
I'm
sure
you
are
aware
of
many,
and
this
is
this
particularly
happened
during
covid.
D
Where,
especially
when
you
have
remote
participation,
there
were
cities
that,
were
you
know,
people
would
call
in
from
all
over
the
country
and
spend
four
hours
on
public
comment
on
an
atom
not
on
the
agenda
and
disrupt
the
ability
of
the
city
council
to
conduct
its
business.
So
that
is
the
reason
why
this
has
been
in
our
code,
allowing
public
comment
to
be
put
at
after
6
45
But.
D
Ultimately,
it's
a
policy
decision
for
the
city
council
and
that's
one
thing
I
do
want
to
want
to
mention-
is
that
the
vast
majority
of
these
are
policy
decisions
of
the
city
council.
That
staff
has
no
recommendation
one
way
or
the
other
there's
only
three
recommendations
that
I
have
one
is
that
you
comply
with
SB
1100,
and
that
is
set
forth
in
the
ordinance
with
respect
to
protocol
on
dealing
with
disruptive
individuals.
D
The
second
is
to
comply
with
ab2647,
which
is
the
requirement
that
we
ensure
that
you
don't
get
information
and
documents
prior
to
the
public.
They
have
to
get
it
at
the
same
time.
So
we're
memorializing
that-
and
the
final
thing
is
that
we
comply
with
the
First
Amendment
and
not
violate
the
compelled
speech
rules.
In
other
words,
we
cannot
require
them
to
State
their
name.
We
cannot
require
them
to
State
their
city
of
residence.
D
We
cannot
require
them
to
provide
identifying
information,
but
as
a
city
clerk
has
indicated,
we
ask
them
to
do
that
for
management
purposes,
so
we
can
call
them
to
the
diocese
if
the
city
manager
wants
to
do
follow-up
with
them.
It's
a
lot
easier
to
follow
up
with
someone
that
we
know
how
to
contact,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
it's
not
required.
D
But
again,
these
are
policy
decisions
for
the
council
to
make
I
I
did
talk
about
putting
items
on
the
agenda,
but
I
also
want,
to
just
add
a
little
a
little
bit
more
information
with
regarding
how
we
put
items
on
the
agenda.
The
income
there
are
inconsistencies
in
the
language
set
forth
in
the
resolution
and
the
city's
practice
for
at
least
the
past
15
years.
I've
been
here
for
11
of
those
years
and
then
five
years
before
that
and
the
practice
has
been
has
been
pretty
consistent
because
there
are
inconsistencies.
D
The
city
clerk
actually
reached
out
to
other
cities
in
the
state
to
determine
processes.
Other
cities
have
for
putting
items
on
the
agenda
again,
understanding
that
need
to
balance
those
competing
interests
at
times
and
what
city
clerk
learned
is
that
the
vast
majority
of
the
Cities
created
this
two-step
process
to
ensure
that
if
staff
is
going
to
be
directed
to
spend
time
and
resources
researching
and
bringing
an
item
to
council,
it's
actually
something
that
a
majority
of
the
council
want
to
hear,
and
it's
not
just
one
city
council
member's
issue
or
prerogative.
D
So
that
is
why
that
is.
That
was
addressed
in
that
manner,
but
again,
except
for
those
three
issues.
These
are
entirely
policy
decisions
for
the
city
council
to
make
and
staff
has
no
recommendation.
Sorry
for
the
long
and
involved
answer,
but
just
felt
like
I
needed
to
put
it
kind
of
into
perspective.
R
R
We
want
to
know
what
the
public
thinks
we
want
to
hear.
You
I
can
tell
you
I've,
sat
in
in
hearings
where
we've
had
60
70
80
people
come
up
to
the
podium
and
spend
two
three
hours
listening,
so
we
are
very
attuned
to
that.
We
advertise
it
in
social
media.
Come
on
down
to
the
council
meetings.
We
tell
you
how
to
participate.
We
take
Zoom
calls
whatever
it
takes.
We
want
to
hear
you
that
being
said.
I
love
that
expression,
don't
you
that
being
said
anyway,
I'll
just
go
through
these
quickly.
R
First
of
all,
there
is
no
three
question
rule
per
se:
okay,
it's
not
written
down
anywhere.
It
was
adopted
by
a
former
mayor
for
whatever
her
particular
reasons
were,
and
it's
kind
of
carried
over
I
for
one
I,
don't
I'm,
not
in
favor
of
frankly,
I
I
would
just
as
soon
see
that
stricken
I
think
that
it's
really
the
mayor
needs
I,
codify
him.
You're,
making
it
mandatory
and
I
don't
think
it
should
be
mandatory.
R
Every
mayor
has
a
different
way
of
handling
a
meeting,
and
if
a
mayor
wants
to
choose
this
three
question
business:
well,
okay,
that's
up
to
him
or
her
other
Mayors
may
feel
that
they
can
open
it
up.
A
little
wider
have
a
little
more
latitude
but
I
I
don't
want
to
see
that
codified,
I,
I,
I,
I,
think
it's
limiting
and
and
granted.
We
can
come
back
and
ask
questions
after
that,
but
for
me,
I
don't
want
to
see
that
put
into
law
so
to
speak,
to
make
it
mandatory.
R
As
far
as
this
two-step
process,
99
of
cities
use
it
I,
don't
I,
don't
have
a
problem
with
that.
I
think
it's
a
good
way
to
bring
an
agenda
item
forward
and
then
the
last
business
about
the
mayor
discretion
for
public
comments.
As
Laura
said,
it's
never
been
utilized
ever
in
the
history
of
the
city,
it's
there
and
but
there's
a
lot
of
stuff
that
we
have
laws
on
that
have
never
been
utilized,
but
I
mean
and,
as
Tracy
said,
she
made
a
good
point.
It's
really
there.
R
If
someone
tries
to
disrupt
the
meeting
disrupt
because
we
we
are
having
a
business
meeting
here
and
you're
invited
to
participate,
but
it
like
I
said
it's
never
been
used.
But
if,
if
the
rest
of
the
council
members
feel
that
you
know
it,
it
should
be
without
concurrence
of
the
council.
I'm
amenable
to
that
and
and
I'd
just
as
soon
hear
opinions.
If
you
think
it
should
be.
R
R
B
U
Thank
you,
mayor,
I,
want
to
start
with
a
general
comment.
I
endorse
completely
what
the
City
attorney
said
about
the
need
to
balance
our
our
need
to
do
business
and
the
Public's
all-important
right
to
be
heard.
We
work
for
you
and
we
need
to
hear
from
you
and
we
need
to
hear
each
other
I'm
new
here,
but
any
previous
career
I
chaired
Planning
Commission
meetings
for
more
than
two
years
more
than
two,
because
there
was
a
stretch
where
there
was
no
reorg
meeting
for
some
reason.
U
Looking
at
that
timer
and
saying,
oh,
no,
there's
23
more
people
to
go
I've
been
there,
but
but
where
there
were
sometimes
even
back
and
forth
discussions
between
members
of
the
panel
and
the
public
that
generally
tended
to
bring
out
things
and
had
more
meaningful
discussions
as
a
result.
So
all
of
this
is
a
long-winded
way
of
framing
that
that,
as
a
policy
matter
and
I
think
the
City
attorney
is
right
that
this
is.
This
is
mostly
what
policy
do
we
want?
Not
what
should
the
law
be?
U
What
policies
procedures
do
we
want
to
have
as
a
policy
matter,
I
favor
things
that
encourage
more
discussion,
more
dialogue,
more
more
debate?
What's
the
old
quote
about
democracy?
Is
it
terrible
system
of
government,
except
for
all
the
other
systems
having
that
debate
is
really
important
and
we
do
our
best
work
when
we
have
that
debate.
So
with
that
in
mind,
I
do
have
some
specific
concerns.
U
I
share,
Al's
concern
about
codifying
the
three
question
rule,
I
I,
don't
think
it's
a
bad
thing
practice
to
have
per
se,
but
I
agree
that
codifying
it
probably
is
not
necessary.
U
I
I,
don't
like
specifically
what's
what's
in
here,
saying:
there
can
be
three
questions
and
then
at
the
sole
discretion
of
the
mayor
there
may
be
more
questions.
I
think.
If
it's
the
sense
of
the
body
as
a
whole
to
continue
this
debate,
we
should
we
could.
We
should
have
continued
debate.
I,
don't
want
to
cut
that
off.
U
Another
change,
I
noticed,
is
that
the
matter
of
bringing
items
to
the
agenda
bringing
a
resolution
to
the
agenda.
My
understanding-
and
this
is
possibly
mistaken,
but
I
know
cases
where
it
has
happened
this
way.
My
understanding
is
that
in
the
past
any
council
member
could
go
to
staff
and
say
I
would
like
this
item
to
be
this
resolution
rather
to
be
on
the
agenda
and
and
then
it
would
be
and
it
would
be
voted
up
or
down.
U
There
would
be
a
discussion
didn't
mean
it
would
be
passed,
it
would
mean
it
would
be
up
for
discussion
as
I
read
the
the
posed
language
here.
It
says
there
would
be
a
there
can
be
a
resolution,
but
only
if
the
full
Council
approves
it
and
I
can
think
of
all
kinds
of
scenarios
where
that
would
not
serve
the
public.
U
Well
at
all,
where
the
will
of
the
people
is
one
thing
and
the
will
of
the
council
is
another,
and
the
council
uses
that
to
stifle
public
will,
or
public
descent
and
and
so
I
would
I
would
prefer
strongly
to
see
us
keep
the
current
system
where
any
council
member
can
bring
any
resolution
and
it
may
be
voted
down,
but
but
the
resolution
would
still
be
there
to
be
debated.
U
Another
point
that
the
City
attorney
raised
with
regard
to
public
comment.
I
have
a
concern
about
public
speakers
who
engage
in
astroturfing
where
they
they
present
things
and
I.
I
have
personally
witnessed
two
occasions
where
representatives
from
an
applicant
failed
to
disclose
that
they
were
high
priest
Executives
of
that
applicant,
and
the
public
I
think
has
an
interest
in
knowing
that.
U
Another
time
there
were
multiple
speakers
who
said
almost
the
same
thing
word
for
word
and
I
later
learned
that
an
applicant
who
was
these
people
were
members
of
the
public,
speaking
in
favor
of
an
application
I
later
learned
that
the
applicant
had
bought
pizza
and
beer
for
these
speakers
prior
to
this
hearing,
and
so
yes,
of
course,
they
came
and
said
in
favor.
They
didn't
disclose
that
at
the
hearing.
So,
while
I
agree,
we
cannot
compel
people
to
say
what
their
financial
interest
is.
We
can't
compel
their
name.
U
And
finally,
going
back
to
councilmember
Adams
a
point
about
continuing
public
comment:
I
agree:
it's
never
this
business
about,
there's
a
cut
off
and
then
there's
this
procedure.
That's
never
been
utilized.
If
it's
never
been
utilized,
why
do
we
need
it?
Let's
it's
just
not
not
have
it
for
the
same
reason,
I
think
that
you,
you
had
advocated
not
having
the
the
three
question
role
so
anyway.
That's
that's
all
of
my
concerns
and
I.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
Thank.
H
Of
the
these
are
a
set
of
rules
by
which
we
are
attempting
to
regulate
ourselves
in
how
we
approach
our
meetings
and
in
doing
so,
we're
inviting
public
to
also
be
part
of
those
guidelines
that
we
that
we
all
would
respect
each
other.
The
the
speakers
all
brought
up
good
items
I
enjoyed
the
parts
that
people
brought
to
us
tonight.
There's
one
thing:
I
think
that
I
know
I
agree
with
the
speakers
on.
H
Is
that
the
to
be
to
be
internally
consistent
as
the
as
the
city
clerk
has
mentioned?
We
also
have
something
that
we
do
at
11
o'clock
at
night,
where
we
decide
whether,
as
a
council
we're
going
to
continue
on
and
the
the
mayor
mentioned
say
it's
11
o'clock
with
the
concurrence
of
the
council.
Let's
go
forward.
H
I,
don't
see
why
the
645
rule
should
be
different
from
that
I
would
I
would
keep
it
consistent
with
what
we're
doing
in
other
parts
of
our
meeting
so
that
we
have
at
6
45
the
mayor
says:
hey
we
got
20
more
speakers.
We
should
probably
move
this.
Do
I
have
a
concurrence
of
the
council.
That
would
be
I,
think
consistent
with
that,
and
we
can
simply
change
the
other
ordinance
to
match
that
I
would
think
without
too
much
too
much
problem.
It
doesn't
have
anything
to
do
with
individuals
or
the
mayor.
I.
H
Just
think
that
that's
a
decision
we
all
should
be
behind
and
we
should
all
decide
that,
in
terms
of
the
use
of
having
having
council
members
put
things
on
the
agenda,
one
thing
Thousand
Oaks
also
is
noted
for
is
being
very
prudent
with
its
financial
and
efforts.
That
is
that
we
pay
for
one
of
the
things
that
this
would
cause.
H
Is
that
any
one
of
us
or
all
of
us
at
the
same
time
could
could
task
the
the
staff
with
five
different
topics
to
present
at
at
a
meeting
that
to
me
is
an
is
a
awkward
way
to
go
about
an
efficient
use
of
staff's
time
and
the
Public's
money
that
we're
paying
the
staff
I
would
prefer
that
we
have
the
the
screening
process
of
Simply
Having,
the
council
member,
be
a
little
bit
proactive,
come
write,
something
down,
send
it
over
to
have
it
on
the
agenda,
and
we
can
talk
about
it
whether
we
want
to
put
it
on
the
agenda
and
then,
if
the
council
has
a
hold,
decides
yeah,
that's
that's
a
good
use
of
our
funds
and
our
time
for
our
staff.
H
Let's
do
that.
I
think
that's
a
good
check
and
balance
on
the
expenditure
of
public
funds
and
also
allowing
our
council
members
to
bring
things
forward
to
the
diocese
that,
maybe
we
didn't
think
of
before
the
other
part
of
this.
Is
that
and
it's
not
really
seen
I,
don't
think
by
the
general
public
as
that
significant.
But
each
year
we
go
and
set
goals
for
our
city.
H
Those
goals
typically
have
multi-level
actions
that
need
to
take
place
and
because
of
that,
our
goal
setting
actually
is
a
way
for
us
to
really
set
an
agenda
a
year
in
advance
to
try
to
move
things
forward,
having
having
the
ability
to
bring
something
forward
and
be
voted
on
by
the
council.
I
think
is
one
way
to
do
it,
but
we
also
do
our
goal
setting
which
didn't
exist
back
in
the
day
that
preceded
the
last
five
or
six
years.
H
So
I
think
that
between
those
two,
the
ability
to
bring
things
to
the
city
council
have
our
members
vote
on
whether
we
want
to
go
there
and
having
our
goal
session
is
a
way
for
us
to
help
bring
the
Public's
interest
into
what
is
on
the
agenda
and
then.
Finally,
what
was
the
other
item
we
were
talking
about?
H
We'll
give
you
some
time.
Oh
the
three
questions,
three
questions
for
three
questions.
Rule
the
the
three
question
guidance.
H
It's
it's
a
three
three
question
guidance
has
been
an
a
agreement
amongst
the
council
to
show
deference
to
each
other
so
that
we
don't
get
sidetracked.
You
can
imagine,
as
you
sit
here,
there's
five
of
us.
If
each
one
of
us
gets
a
chance
to
ask
10
15
questions
by
the
time.
It's
your
turn.
H
The
discussion
has
moved
on.
So
it's
been.
It's
been
a
useful,
a
useful
way
for
us
to
be
able
to
be
timely
in
our
questions,
but
I
would
agree
with
my
colleagues
that
to
codify
it
is
probably
not
the
way
it
should
be.
It
is
it's
a
it's
a
a
gentleman's
agreement
for
lack
of
a
better
term
amongst
us
that
we
will
allow
others
to
speak
in
an
orderly
way.
To
me,
that
is,
is
where
it
should
stay.
It's
an
accommodation
amongst
us.
H
H
The
mayor
would
still
have
that
ability,
but
the
three
rule,
the
three
requested
rule,
has
just
been
a
gentleman's
agreement
amongst
us
on
the
diocese
that
of
the
former
mayor
before
me
brought
into
into
into
life,
which
I
thought
was
a
great
idea
at
the
time,
but
to
codify
it
and
say
that
we
must
do
that
kind
of
takes
the
cooperation
that
you
see
up
here
and
remove
it
from
being
cooperation
and
being
required.
H
Q
Thank
you
mayor.
Thank
you.
Mr
angler
for
having
me
follow
up
on
that.
That
was
very
well
said.
I'm
new
here,
so
I'm
still
kind
of
figuring
out
the
the
flow
and
what
works
well.
The
the
three
question
rule
I
enjoy
I
think
it's
efficient
and
you
know,
knowing
that
we
can
always
talk
after
our
three
to
get.
Everything
in
I
think
is,
is
good.
Q
I
agree
with
you,
I
I,
like
the
idea
of
just
being
respectful
and
having
that
be
a
you
know
thing
that
we
follow
I
I,
don't
think
I
need
to
have
it
codified
at
all
on
the
the
agenda
or
getting
something
on
on
agenda
I
guess
what
I
was
thinking
was
if
we
bring
it
to
the
city
council
and
the
city
council
denies
it,
they
don't
want
it
put
on
the
agenda
if
we
were
allowing
the
alternative,
which
was
just
let
anyone
basically
put
an
item
on
in
theory.
Q
That
item
would
then
go
through
the
staff
would
spend
all
the
time
working
on
it
then
would
then
it
would
just
get
to
the
city
council
to
then
get
denied
again.
So
I
guess
I.
Look
at
it
as
if
we
are
not
going
to
approve
it.
We
already
know
that
why
waste
the
the
efforts
of
the
city
to
spend
time
on
it,
if
that
makes
sense,
doesn't
make
sense.
So
let's
look
at
this
way.
Q
All
five
of
us
know
what
what
we're
thinking
as
far
as
if
we
think
that's
good
good
items
to
to
spend
time
on
bringing
forward
if
we
as
a
as
a
majority,
don't
think
so,
then
why
spend
the
time?
Why
have
staff
spend
the
time
working
on
it?
When
majority
is
already
saying
we've
declined
this
is
that
making
sense
am
I.
Just
please.
U
Thank
you
and
and
I
appreciate
the
need
for
efficiency.
I
I,
fully
concur
with
council
member
angler
councilmember
Taylor
on
that
I'm
more
concerned
about
the
rights
of
the
minority
than
the
majority
here
that
if
there
is
a
minority
View
that,
then
it
would
stifle
that
it
would
never
get
brought
to
discussion
if
a
majority
said
no,
we
just
don't
want
to
talk
about
that,
and-
and
let's
not
even
think
about
the
makeup
of
this
Council,
which
is
very
collegial
and
works.
Well
together.
U
That's
great
we're
not
designing
these
rules
just
for
us.
There
may
be
some
future
situation
and
if
you,
if
we
go
back
to
the
framers,
they
didn't
write
the
Constitution
saying
well,
George
Washington
trusts
John
Adams,
so
he
can
do
whatever
he
wants.
He
said
no
there
we
need
checks
and
balances
and
we
need
to
have
a
system
like
that.
That
puts
that
that
allows
minority
views
to
be
expressed
and
that
that's
my
concern
behind
it.
One
more
quick
point
and
then
I'll
yield
back.
U
The
I
fully
agree
that
it
would
be
chaotic
and
unmanageable.
If
five
council
members
brought
five
motions,
every
single
meeting
or
10
10
motions
or
whatever
that's
never
happened
so
I
I
think
that's
that's
that
concern
may
be
a
little
overblown
or
that
just
hasn't
and
been
a
thing
in
practice.
So
so
I
come
back
to
where
we
do
need
to
do
that,
which
that
there
should
be
some
mechanism
to
allow
it.
Thank
you,
Mr
Taylor,.
Q
So
I
guess
what
I'm
I
I
appreciate
that
councilman,
Newman
and
I
I
also
appreciate
that
you're
always
looking
for
maybe
the
one
who's
not
heard
I
I.
Think
that's
respectful
in
in
the
conversation
aspect
of
it,
though,
how
I'm
looking
at
it
either
way
we're
going
to
be
having
a
conversation
about
it.
All
five
of
us
are
going
to
be
discussing
it.
So
maybe
the
concern
for
you
is
that
the
public
just
gets
to
see
us
discuss
it
because
we're
not
removing
that
option.
Correct.
D
The
two-step
process,
the
first
one,
is
that
the
council
member,
who
wants
to
have
a
full
discussion
on
it,
will
prepare
a
report
right
and
submit
it
to
the
five
of
you.
It's
on
the
agenda
and
a
brief
discussion
on
whether
to
do
basically
to
direct
staff
to
research,
this
item
and
come
back
to
council
with
the
comprehensive
report.
So
there
will
be
some
discussion
on.
Q
It
right
so
so
I
guess
to
clarify
just
so
I'm
understanding
your
point:
it's
not
that
we're
limiting
discussion,
for
maybe
a
minority
view,
it's
that
we
would
potentially
be
discussing
it
and
the
public
wouldn't
be
seeing
it
or
is
it
just?
We
would
want
to
bring
it
to
the
point
of
being
able
to
vote
on
it.
Q
U
I
U
D
So
let
me
give
you
an
example:
you
want
you
have
a
resolution
that
you
want
to
bring
to
the
city
council
for
consideration,
so
you
bring
a
I.
Am
sorry
so
you
you
draft
a
resolution
and
you
asked
that
it
be
put
on
the
agenda
and
you
are
asking
that
actually,
this
item
be
formally
agendized
for
staff
to
evaluate
it,
review
it
and
bring
a
staff
Report
with
this
resolution,
you're
not
going
to
have
at
that
meeting.
They're
not
voting
on
you
guys
are
not
voting
on
that
resolution.
D
B
Understand
what
that
is
right,
I'm
going
to
do
a
point
of
privilege
here,
because
I've
been
very
quiet,
while
the
four
of
you
have
discussed.
What
has
happened
in
the
past
is
that
a
council
member
brings
something
forward.
It's
not
been
fully
vetted
by
City
staff,
thus
protecting
the
city.
The
methodology,
that's
being
recommended,
protects
the
city.
It's
been
fully
researched,
so
the
council
here
has
some
sort
of
point
of
reference
to
make
a
vote
during
the
discussions,
and
so.
U
B
D
D
That's
not
what
I'm
saying
I'm
not
saying
anything
was
illegal
was
illegal.
What
I'm
saying
is
it
did
not
go
through
formal
legal
evaluation
because
I
the
the
way
the
rules
are
written
is
that
we
we
operate
under
a
council
manager,
form
of
government
and
maybe
Drew.
You
want
to
talk
about
this
Council
manager,
form
of
government
says
you
guys,
create
the
policies,
and
then
you
direct
the
city
manager
to
implement
that,
and
part
of
that
is
that
no
one
council
member
can
direct
staff
to
do
something.
It
has
to
be
collectively
the
city
council.
D
That
does
that.
So
in
our
in
our
rules,
in
our
ordinance,
anything
that
is
brought
to
the
city
council.
That
staff
has
that
it
requires.
You
know
a
resolution
requires
it
to
be
signed
by
the
city
manager
approved
as
to
form
or
content
City
attorney
approved
as
to
form
and
then
also
signed
by
the
city
clerk.
If
you
have
a,
if
you
have
a
situation
where
you
have
one
council
member
bring
in
a
resolution,
I
don't
have
the
authority
to
do
that,
because
my
take
my
direction
from
the
city
council
as
a
whole.
D
U
This
I'm
not
looking
to
relitigate
the
anti-hate
resolution.
I
did
watch
that
hearing
multiple
times,
I,
don't
recall
a
statement
being
made
by
anyone
on
staff
that
this
can't
proceed
because
it
has
an
undergone
legal
review.
U
D
B
And
just
to
clarify
just
to
clarify,
in
my
summary
comments
as
to
why
I
abstained
on
that
was
specifically
on
that
issue,
that
it
had
not
gone
through
a
full
legal
review.
Subsequent
to
my
voting,
abstention
and
I
brought
that
out
as
well,
because
it
was
pointed
out
by
City
attorney
that
it
had
not
gone
through
full
legal
review
and
may
may
put
the
city
at
risk.
So
that's
essentially.
U
The
history,
so
this
is
maybe
an
ideal
case
for
the
concern.
B
U
Have
is
when
there
is
something
that
is
contentious
and
is
important
to
one
councilman
you
you
yourself,
Mr
Mayor
may
have
something
that
is
personally
important
to
you,
but
other
members
of
the
council
might
not
agree
to
I.
I
would
be
first
in
line
to
defend
your
right
to
be
able
to
bring
that
to
the
public
and
have
a
public
discussion
on
that.
That's
my
concern
again.
H
B
N
I
just
to
build
on
City
attorney,
noon's
comments
and
just
to
sort
of
State
a
couple
pieces
about
from
a
governance,
standpoint
and
I
know.
There
is
a
emotion
attached
to
the
issue
that
we're
we're
speaking
in
you
know
my
focus
as
your
administrator
is
always
on
the
procedural
and
so
in
my
in
as
a
city
manager
in
the
profession.
N
It's
best
practices
are
really
the
important
thing
that
we
keep
our
eyes
and
focus
on
in
running
this
in
prize
as
a
business.
So
from
that
standpoint,
balancing
that
with
the
fact
that
the
five
of
you
are
elected
by
the
people
and
so
Tracy
and
I
take
our
charge
from
the
from
the
five
of
you
and
so
ensuring
that
across
the
board,
opportunity
is
important
and
in
this
case
92
percent
of
of
cities
surveyed.
This
is
the
process.
N
That's
utilized
processes
years
ago
were
were
often
undertaken
before
we
had
a
priority
and
goal
setting
process.
I.
Think
that's
an
important
distinction.
I
know
that
councilmember
Engler
mentioned
that
it
was
partially
created
to
help
guide
the
focus
for
the
for
the
year.
So
I've
worked
in
three
municipalities.
The
practice
of
of
gendizing,
while
rarely
utilized,
because
in
most
places
there
is
very
much
a
business
focus
and
Rhythm
that
that
happens.
N
Ensuring
that
there's
an
opportunity,
because,
just
as
one
member
wants
to
bring
something
forward,
another
member's
questioning
the
city
manager
as
to
why
something
is
coming
forward.
And
so
having
you
to
have
the
opportunity
to
have
that
discussion
is,
is
what
this
policy
would
allow
for
and
and
the
reason
that
vast
majority
of
jurisdictions
utilize.
It.
B
And
I
just
want
to
comment
on
the
three
question
rule
that
was
implemented
two
years
ago
and
I
think
it
was
an
effective
measure
because
that
way,
one
council
member
does
not
come
off
with
many
many
questions
and
bogs
down
to
the
discussion
and
no
one
else
has
their
voices
heard,
and
that
was
cordially
introduced
and
accepted,
and
that
was
a
procedure
that
was
carried
on
for
the
rest
of
that
year
and
again
under
mayor
Engler,
when
he
was
there
did
the
same.
B
However,
I
want
to
point
out
that
the
Congeniality
disappeared
when
I
I
tried
to
implement
that
at
one
of
the
meetings.
Because
of
many
questions
coming
forth
by
a
council,
member
and
I
was
caught
afterwards,
where
the
council
member
objected
to
my
implementing
a
three-question
rule
if,
after
the
meeting
had
started,
thus
the
codifying
of
it,
eliminates
the
objection
of
well,
you
changed
the
rules
after
the
meeting
started.
So
your
request
of
being
congenial
to
accept
the
three
question.
Rule
didn't
work
in
that
case
and
I
got
an
earful.
B
While
you
implemented
the
three
question
rule
after
the
meeting
started,
therefore
you
should
not
have
done
that.
Does
that
make
sense?
So
that's
my
only
comment
on
the
three
question.
Rule
I,
like
it
being
codified,
I,
think
it
works
and
like
to
move
forward
with
that
aspect
of
it.
Mr
Engler.
You
had
a
comment
just.
H
A
quick
comment
on
on
some
of
the
item
as
far
as
the
having
a
resolution
brought
and
that
sort
of
thing
there's
no
intent,
I
think
of
anybody
to
try
to
limit
participation
by
council
members.
In
fact,
by
asking
that
a
council
member
come
come
to
us
as
a
body
and
say
hey
I'd
like
to
talk
about
this
put
on
our
agenda.
H
I
think
actually
gives
that
council
member
two
bites
at
the
Apple.
It
is
a
way
for
us
to
broach
the
subject.
Talk
about
it.
Does
this
subject
sound
like
something
we
want
to
do
great,
let's
come
back
in
a
week
or
two
or
whatever,
and
really
talk
about
the
subject.
H
I
I!
Don't
see
that
as
a
downside,
I
see
that
as
a
way
of
coming
to
us
with
an
idea
asking
if
you
guys
want
to
talk
about
this
idea
and
then
let's,
let's
have
staff
research,
it
spend
the
money
to
do
it
and
really
get
down
and
and
get
into
entries
with
it.
H
R
Adam,
oh
thank
you,
mayor.
Well
I.
If
this
three
question
business
is
not
codified,
that
doesn't
mean
a
mayor
in
the
future
or
a
mayor
right
now
could
choose
to
not
would
have
to
not
use
that
perfectly
acceptable.
I
think
what
I'm
saying
is
I
just
don't
want
to
make
see
it
mandatory.
That's
all
right!
You
could
continue
to
go
that
path,
no
problem,
and
so
could
future
Mayors,
but
future
Mayors
may
decide
well.
I
want
to
take
a
different
approach.
I
just
want
to
give
a
mayor
a
little
more
latitude,
I
mean.
R
B
R
Congratulations
who
were
implemented
a
council
member
may
not
like
it,
but
the
mayor
runs
the
meetings
bottom
line.
That's
where
he's
the
mayor
so
anyway,
I
just
don't
want
to
see
it
mandatory.
That's
all!
And
then
it's
this
business
of
bringing
an
agenda
item,
yeah
I
think
it
really
has
to
do
a
lot
with
staff.
Time
I
mean
staff
responds
to
a
majority,
and
then
they
know
what
to
do.
R
But
when
you
allow
just
one
council
member
to
bring
an
agenda
item
you're
going
to
take
up
staff
time,
it
hasn't
been
approved
by
the
rest
of
us
and
then
it's
going
to
come
forward,
and
it
makes
sense
to
me
that
if
you're
going
to
utilize
staff
time
in
that
manner
and
staff
time
is
very
valuable.
You
know
you
need
a
majority
of
the
council
to
go
ahead
and
be
allowed
to
do
that.
If
I
understand.
B
The
current
recommendation
here
from
staff
is
that
if
any
of
us
have
a
recommendation
or
a
proposal
to
come
forth
the
council,
it
comes
forth
to
say:
do
you
want
to
discuss
in
a
future
agenda's
item
of
subject
a
b
and
c
at
which
point
we
vote
then
now
City
staff
goes
back.
Does
the
due
diligence
to
protect
the
city?
It's
gone
through
all
the
steps
it
should.
Then
it
comes
back
for
a
full
discussion
and
a
final
vote
is
that
my
understanding,
the.
R
B
R
That's
what
I'm
about
to
do?
Thank
you.
As
far
as
the
three
question
business
I
would
strike
that
language,
okay
and
again,
not
to
say
that
you
couldn't
use
it
I,
just
don't
want
to
make
it
mandatory.
That's
all
I
think
the
two-step
process
is
fair
to
staff
and
it
it
tends
to
protect
the
council
a
little
bit
from
a
you
know
from
a
council
member
who
wants
to
dominate
and
keep
bringing
agenda
items
unilaterally.
I
think
I
think
you
should
get
a
majority
if
you're
going
to
use
staff
time
and
then.
R
Finally,
on
the
on
the
mayor,
discretion
business
about
public
comment,
I
almost
feel
like
taking
a
straw
I
mean
the
issue.
Here,
really
is
it's
already
in
the
law
in
our
ordinance?
What
what
staff
is
saying?
Do
you
want
it
to
be
it's
a
mayor
to
it
unilaterally
or
does
the
mayor
need
a
majority?
So
what
what.
B
R
R
U
Council,
member
Newman
favors
the
majority
as
at
just
because.
B
Three
personally
I'm
okay,
either
way,
but
we're
good
just
to
make
certain
that
or
Madam
clerk.
Are
you
tracking
what
we're
doing
here?
I
am
we're
striking.
C
Yeah,
we're
removing
the
three
question
rule
from
the
standards
of
operation
resolution,
we're
keeping
the
two-step
process
to
add
an
agenda
item.
We
are
keeping
Council
concurrence
to
move
public
comment
to
later
in
the
evening
and
also
for
the
public
input
resolution.
We
will
make
that
also
stay
as
concurrence
required
for
moving
public
comment.
D
R
B
H
B
B
B
C
B
Y
Y
So,
to
provide
you
with
some
background
for
tonight's
presentation,
the
California
government
code
requires
all
jurisdictions
to
prepare
an
annual
progress
report
on
the
status
and
implementation
of
its
General
plan.
The
annual
progress
report
covers
the
2022
calendar
year
from
January
1st
to
December
31st
and
is
comprised
of
two
reports.
The
general
plan
annual
progress
report
and
also
the
housing
element
annual
progress
report.
Y
The
law
requires
that
the
report
be
submitted
to
the
city
council,
the
governor's
office
of
planning
and
research,
otherwise
known
as
opr,
and
the
State
Department
of
Housing
and
Community
Development,
that's
hcd
every
year
prior
to
April
1st.
The
purpose
of
the
annual
progress
report
is
to
provide
city
council
and
the
public
with
information
regarding
the
implementation
of
the
city's
General
plan
and
housing
element.
This
report
also
allows
opr
to
identify
Statewide
Trends
in
land
use
decision
making
and
similarly,
similarly,
it
allows
hcd
to
track
the
progress
of
implementation
of
the
city's
housing
element.
Y
So,
starting
with
the
general
plan
annual
progress
report,
this
report
is
essentially
what's
in
the
body
of
the
staff
report,
which
includes
any
amendments
and
the
implementation
items
for
each
General
plan
element
in
terms
of
the
elements
there
were
two
formal
changes
last
year
to
the
land
use
map.
This
was
for
to
Ranch,
in
which
the
land
use
designation
was
changed
from
commercial
to
commercial
residents
to
allow
for
that
mixed-use
project,
which
was
on
approximately
10
acres.
Y
The
second
land
use
map
change
was
for
the
Baxter
Way
project,
where
the
landius
designation
was
changed
from
industrial
to
high
density.
There
were
no
formal
General
plan
amendments
to
the
remaining
General
plan.
Elements
also
summarized
in
this
report
is
the
status
of
the
compliance
with
the
state's
general
plan.
Y
In
terms
of
the
implementation
of
the
general
plan
for
most
of
the
city's
General
plan
elements,
the
goals
and
the
policies
are
implemented
at
the
project
level
as
part
of
the
Project's
discretionary
and
environmental
review
process.
That's
when
we're
applying
our
various
planning
standards,
safety
measures,
our
tree
preservation,
regulations,
Etc,
however,
for
some
projects,
I
mean
sorry
for
some
general
Planet
elements
such
as
circulation
and
safety
and
open
space.
There
are
a
variety
of
non-project
related
programs
such
as
Capital,
Improvements,
pedestrian
and
Bikeway,
and
safety
improvements,
land
Acquisitions
that
happen
as
part
of
the
implementation.
B
Y
Before
I
get
to
the
second
part,
I
just
I
just
wanted
to
give
an
update
on
the
the
city's
the
status
of
the
city's
six
heikel
housing
element
following
its
adoption
by
city
council
last
year
in
2022,
the
city
did
receive
a
second
letter
from
hcd
stating
that,
although,
although
the
housing
element
met
most
of
the
the
state's
statutory
requirements,
there
were
additional
revisions
that
were
needed.
So,
following
the
general
plan
contract
amendment
that
the
council
approved
last
September
staff
was
able
to
continue
working
with
our
housing
consultant.
Y
Make
those
revisions
resubmit
the
public.
The
public
draft
of
the
revised
housing
element
back
to
the
public
for
review,
and
then
we
were
able
to
resubmit
it
back
to
hcd
on
February
1st.
So
they
are
still
reviewing
that
right
now
they
have
up
to
60
days
to
review
and
then
tell
us
if
they
have
any
additional
comments.
Y
So
now
moving
on
to
the
housing
only
annual
progress
report.
This
report
includes
a
summary
of
the
proposed
residential
units,
a
summary
of
the
building
permit
issuance
status
of
the
city's
progress
in
meeting
its
Arena
allocation
status
on
our
implementation
of
our
housing
programs,
and
also
a
summary
of
the
progress
of
the
housing
successor
agency.
Annual
report.
Y
So
this
slide
summarizes
table
a
of
the
reports
attachment
one
which
documents
the
number
of
residential
units
that
were
proposed
between
January,
1st
and
December
31st.
So
only
formal
applications
that
have
been
deemed
complete
within
the
calendar
year
are
included
in
this
table
and
this
housing
activity
summary
this
table
does
not
show
applications
that
were
deemed
complete
prior
to
2022.
So
this
total
housing
unit
number
only
represents
a
portion
of
the
approved
units.
Within
the
calendar
year
there
were
162
applications
submitted
to
the
planning
division,
with
a
total
of
885
residential
units
of
those
units.
Y
So
the
reason
for
the
difference
in
the
number
of
the
total
units
that
were
proposed
versus
approved
is
primarily
because
of
two
pending
large
multi-family
projects
which
contain
about
85
percent
of
those
pending
units.
We
do
expect
both
of
those
projects
to
go
to
hearings
very
soon,
so
they
will
actually
be
reported
on
next
year's
annual
progress
report.
Y
Y
I
know
there
was
some
confusion
with
this
table,
so
I
just
want
to
clarify
the
table
on
the
previous
slide,
only
included
units
that
were
deemed
complete
in
2022..
This
table,
however,
includes
the
approved
units
from
table
a
plus
residential
units
that
were
proposed
or
deemed
complete
prior
to
2022.
So
this
captures
every
single
application
planning
application
that
was
approved
in
2022,
whether
or
not
it
was
submitted
in
the
reporting
or
not.
Y
So
that's
why
the
total
approved
units
for
this
table
is
much
higher
than
you
saw
on
table
a
this
actually
captures
a
better
representation
of
the
residential
activity.
That's
going
on
within
the
department,
so
a
total
of
845
units
were
approved
in
2022,
which
includes
affordable
units
from
two
projects
which
were
to
Ranch
and
Baxter
Way
and
compared
to
the
total
number
of
units
the
percentage
of
affordable
units
last
year
approved
was
10.5
percent.
Y
So
we
would
expect
this
number
to
increase
in
terms
of
being
approved
at
different,
affordable
income
categories
much
higher
in
the
next
couple
years,
as
the
city
has
made
more
significant
steps
to
achieve
its
goals
in
affordable
housing
in
the
last
couple
years.
So
it
does
take
a
couple
years
time
to
really
see
the
reflect
in
these
numbers.
Y
So,
in
terms
of
our
Arena
allocation,
this
did
East.
This
table
shows
where
the
city
stands.
The
city's
Arena
allocation
is
2621
units
spread
across
the
income
categories
and
a
total
of
117
building
permits
were
issued.
As
you
can
see,
the
city
has
satisfied
13.6
percent
of
the
above
moderate
units
so
far
with
a
total
of
4.5
percent
of
the
total
Rena
allocation.
Y
So
moving
on
to
the
next
part
of
the
annual
progress
report
in
in
the
progress
report
on
table,
D
is
a
list
of
all
18
Housing
Programs,
along
with
all
of
the
objectives,
the
time
frames
and
the
objectives
that
the
city
has
completed
thus
far.
Y
This
is
just
a
highlight
of
some
of
the
bigger
new
initiatives
that
the
city
has
completed
in
the
last
year.
There
are
other
additional
ongoing
items
that
the
city
continues
to
do,
but
last
year
the
abductive
standards
were
adopted.
The
city
received
a
significant
award
for
the
motel
conversion
of
77
permanent
Supportive
Housing
units.
The
city
has
moved
forward
with
three
different
organizations
to
develop
and
lease
and
operate
the
navigation
Center.
Y
The
city
initiated
the
update
of
the
inclusion,
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
last
year,
which
will
be
finished
shortly,
and
the
city
has
also
the
sorry.
The
cdbg
grants
have
provided
Rehabilitation
assistance
to
16
mobile
home
units
occupied
by
low
income
seniors
and
grants
from
cdbg
also
accomplished
the
rehabilitation
of
143,
affordable
rental
units
at
two
different
apartment
complexes.
Y
So
and
finally,
the
last
component
to
this
annual
progress
report
is
the
housing
successor
agency
report
back
in
2012,
there
was
the
dissolution
of
Redevelopment
agencies
and,
as
such
every
year
as
part
of
our
annual
report
progress,
we
are
required
to
report
on
our
expenditures,
values
and
the
inventory
of
assisted
units.
So
in
2022
approximately
just
shy
of
139
000
was
spent
in
administrative
expenditures.
U
Thank
you,
Mr
Mayor,
thanks
very
much
for
your
report.
Just
one
question:
what
impact,
if
any
did
sb9
have
on
housing
production
in
the
city
last
year
and.
Y
Y
U
H
H
Y
So
to
answer
the
first
part
of
your
question
right
now,
unless
the
city
has
proof
whether
it's
a
deed
restriction
or
affordability,
agreement
by
the
property
owner,
we
have
to
put
those
units
on
the
report
as
above
mod
we've
seen.
Some
flexibility
from
the
state
within
the
last
year
or
so
I
think
they
recognize
that
a
lot
of
the
production
of
housing
is
coming
from
adus.
Y
So
as
part
of
one
of
our
program
implementations
for
later
this
year,
which
includes
updating
our
Adu
ordinance
updating
our
application.
We
are
going
to
be
looking
to
see
if
there's
any
data,
perhaps
that
we
could
get
from
homeowners
that
are
proposing
adus,
because
some
cities
have
been
able
to
provide
enough
evidence
to
the
state
to
receive
some
credits.
However,
that
is
a
pretty
big
undertaking,
so
we're
going
to
our
explore
our
options
later
this
year
to
see
what
we
can
come
up
with.
H
B
Any
other
questions,
just
an
observation
and
also
perhaps
a
question
for
enforcement.
That's
been
brought
to
my
attention
last
week
that
a
investor
came
in
and
bought
a
house
put
a
junior
Adu
in
as
well
as
an
Adu
in
the
backyard
and
didn't
want
to
actually
live
in
the
location
and
they've
done
this
in
other
cities
around
Ventura
County.
B
B
B
My
concern
is:
there's
locket
checks
and
balances
in
our
city
governments
and
that
we
don't
knock
on
the
door
and
say
to
the
person?
Are
you
Mr
and
Mrs
Jones
here
you're
supposed
to
own
this
property
here,
and
the
person
living
in
the
main
unit
is
saying
no,
we
rent
from
them.
They
don't
live
here
on
the
site.
How
do
we
go
about
protecting
the
mission
and
vision
of
sb9
to
make
sure
it
is
being
lived
up
to
by
the
property
owner.
N
So
I'll
I
know
community
development.
Director
Parker
will
have
a
couple
of
comments,
but
I
can
speak
just
in
general
terms
that
this
is
one
of
the
inherent
challenges
with
the
state
regulations
that
are
being
brought
down.
They
established
the
state
by
law
is
establishing
The
Residency
requirement
around
the
jdu
and
then
by
virtue
of
that
there's
an
expectation
of
enforcement,
and
so
our
enforcement
and
our
mechanism,
for
that
is
the
sign
off
on
the
certificate
of
occupancy
once
complete.
N
That's
in
this
case
that
you
referenced
that's
the
tool,
that's
leverage
that's
being
held
back
because
they
were
unwilling
to
sign
the
affidavit.
So
from
from
that
standpoint,
you
know
I'll
be
very
Frank
and
honest
that
we
do.
N
We
do
not
have
proactive
code
enforcement
that
would
address
that
it
would
likely
become
a
civil
matter
and
that
the
neighbors
would
need
to
bring
and
carry
that
forward,
because
someone
has
essentially
lied
on
an
affidavit,
but
in
in
large
part,
what
you
were
describing
is
is
a
complex
scenario
that
every
city
is
facing,
which
is
the
unrealistic
expectation
that
that
you
would
really
have
a
regulatory
framework
and
staffed
accordingly
to
do
that.
So
anything.
To
add
to
that
Mr
Parker.
Z
Not
at
this
time,
I
think
you
covered
the
matter
perfectly.
It's
something
that
the
state
contemplated
with
the
law,
which
is
why
they
require
the
deed
restriction.
But,
as
Mr
Powers
mentioned,
it's
something
that
we
would
enforce
once
the
issue
was
raised,
either
at
sale
or
change
in
rental
or
if
a
neighbor
raises
that
issue
and
that's
consistent
with
our
code.
Compliance
policy
applied
throughout
the
city.
B
It's
none
of
my
business!
Then
next
thing
you
know:
we've
got
an
entire
city
filled
with
adus
that
are
not
owned
by
the
person
living
there.
So
I
would
like
Council
to
consider
that,
sometime
in
the
future
that
we
do
spot
code
enforcement,
one
car
one
person
goes
out
and
checks,
maybe
15
20
adus
and
that's
it
and
report
what
they
find
and
the
news
media
here
in
the
area
announcing
what
they
find
if
they
do
find
violations
sends
a
big
message
to
the
other
Adu
owners,
not
in
compliance.
B
P
We
have
heard
from
our
local
Biotech
Industry
from
our
local
businesses
and
employers
from
families
and
community
members
that
there
is
not
enough
housing
that
people
can
afford
in
the
city
of
Thousand
Oaks,
and
it's
in
that
category
of
moderate
and
low
we're
not
doing
a
lot
to
address
those
shortages
and
I.
P
Think
that
that's
the
housing
that
many
of
the
employers
that
you
council
members
have
so
much
respect
for
are
asking
for
so
I
hope
that
you
are
taking
your
tracking
responsibilities
seriously
here
and
not
just
worrying
about
whether
the
state
is
going
to
be
annoyed.
And
in
regards
to
that
I
heard
tonight
that
there's
more
housing
in
the
pipeline
and
that
that
might
help
adjust
these
numbers
well,
I
would
hope
that
you
on
the
council
would
ask
for
those
numbers.
P
If
we
know
the
housing
is
in
the
pipeline,
we
know
what
categories
it
falls
in
that
has
that's
already
underway,
nobody's
going
to
switch
around
whether
it's
moderate
or
low
or
very
low,
so
find
out
the
numbers
as
soon
as
possible
and
steer
the
ship
because
we
need
to
get
somewhere
for
the
good
of
the
city.
Thank
you.
Z
Yeah,
thank
you
Mr
Mayor,
just
as
a
sort
of
point
of
clarification,
this
item
is,
in
fact,
a
compliance
tool
which
is
required
for
state
law,
which
helps
us
maintain
the
funding
for
various
programs
throughout
the
city,
as
well
as
help
us
maintain
compliance
with
our
housing
element.
We
do
have
other
items
in
place
to
address
the
issues
that
were
raised
by
the
speakers,
specifically
Council
may
have
become
accustomed
to
receiving
CDD
updates
on
a
regular
basis.
Z
That's
designed
more
specifically
to
address
the
issues
raised
by
the
speaker,
and
it
provides
more
of
a
true
cap,
shot
a
true
snapshot
of
the
issues
that
may
be
of
concern
to
the
council
or
the
community,
as
it
relates
specifically
for
housing.
This
item
here
this
evening
is
something
that
Council
would
see
on
a
regular
basis.
It's
a
simple
compliance
tool
and,
if
not
for
account
council's
request
to
have
it
as
a
director's
report.
B
A
U
Just
a
quick
comment
to
follow
up
on
Mr
Parker's
comment,
even
if
this
is
a
compliance
tool,
I
look
at
the
entitlements
number
and
see
eight
percent
are
in
the
very
low
income
category
in
the
sorry
in
the
low
income
category
which
our
businesses
are
telling
us
is
the
biggest
need
in
housing
permits
all
of
the
affordable
categories
of
any
kind.
U
Those
are
all
zeros,
I
hope
we
can
use
that
data
to
inform
our
future
discussions
both
before
Council
and
at
the
Planning
Commission
about
the
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
given
given
the
number
of
zeros
and
the
lack
of
activity,
at
least
as
reported
here
I
hope
we
can
revisit
that
10
number.
Perhaps
the
non-residential
fee
numbers
because,
as
reported
the
data
is,
is
showing
very
low
production
in
any
affordable
category.
Thank
you,
Steph.
H
I
R
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
F
F
F
So
when
I
talk
about
speech
during
this
presentation,
I
use
that
term
synonymously
with
signs
most
important
government
cannot
restrict
expression
or
speech
because
of
its
message,
its
ideas,
subject
matter
or
content.
This
does
not
mean
that
a
city
is
prohibited
from
any
regulations
on
speech
or
signs.
The
type
of
Regulation,
however,
is
dependent
on
various
factors
when
the
city
is
a
property
owner.
F
The
constitutionality
of
speech
regulations
depends
on
the
type
of
forum.
The
public
property
is
designated.
A
city
is
not
required
to
freely
Grant
access
to
every
type
of
government
property
for
free
speech
purposes
without
regard
to
the
property's
nature
or
the
disruption
that
might
be
caused
by
the
speaker's
activities.
F
Now
there
are
three
types
of
forms
or
categories
of
government
property
that
determine
the
type
of
Regulation
government
can
impose
on
Free
Speech
rights.
The
first
one
is
traditional
public
forum,
which,
as
the
name
implies,
those
are
places
that
are
traditionally
opened
to
the
public
for
expressive
activity.
These
areas
provide
the
most
protection
for
speech
and
the
government's
ability
to
regulate
speech
in
these
locations
is
subject
to
the
strictest
scrutiny,
parks
and
government,
centers
and
other
locations
that
people
traditionally
gather
are
considered
traditional
public
forums.
F
The
next
one
is
limited
public
forums
and
those
are
places
that
are
open
to
the
public
for
a
specific
purpose,
including
speech
government
can
impose
certain
restrictions
to
ensure
the
business
associated
with
the
location
is
able
to
continue.
For
example,
the
city
council
chamber
provides
an
opportunity
for
the
public
to
comment
and
speak.
However,
the
city
has
imposed
certain
rules,
such
as
time
limits
to
ensure
the
business
of
the
city.
F
F
Government
temporary
completely
prohibit
the
exercise
of
free
speech
in
a
non-public
forum,
all
right,
so
that
was
government
property.
So
now
we're
going
to
talk
about
private
property
and
how
the
city
can
regulate
signs
on
private
property,
so
regulations
on
speech
imposed
by
government
is
very
limited.
Two
primary
principles
to
remember
for
purposes
of
tonight's
discussion
are
that
any
regulation
posed
by
the
city
must
be
content
neutral.
F
In
other
words,
it
cannot
take
into
account
the
message,
the
subject,
the
idea
or
the
content.
The
only
clear
exception
to
this
rule
is
that
government
May
impose
regulations
that
distinguish
between
the
content
of
commercial
and
non-commercial
speech.
Commercial
speech
is
not
entitled
to
the
same
level
of
first
amendment
protection
as
non-commercial
speech.
In
other
words
a
city
may
not
favor
or
provide
more
rights
for
commercial,
signage
or
commercial
speech
than
it
does
over
non-commercial
speech.
F
The
slide
here
shows
that
commercial
speech
is
speech
or
writing
on
behalf
of
a
business
with
intent
of
earning
a
profit.
It
is
economic
in
nature,
and
a
commercial
speech
includes
such
things
as
on
building
or
shopping
center
signs
permanently
affixed
to
a
building
or
property
of
the
business
Billboards
along
the
highways
or
roads
that
advertise
businesses
also
called
off-site
advertising
or
off-site
signs
are
another
example
of
commercial
speech
and
of
course,
we
have
temporary
banners
and
signs.
F
F
Non-Commercial
speech
is
afforded
the
greatest
protection,
and
any
regulation
is
subject
to
the
most
exacting
strict
scrutiny
in
the
past.
Cities
routinely
established
different
regulations
for
different
subject
categories
and
Thousand
Oaks
was
no
different.
However,
case
law
has
significantly
limited
the
ability
of
cities
to
do
so
today,
any
restriction
imposed
by
a
city
must
be
content
neutral.
That
is,
it
cannot
consider
the
subject
matter.
Any
regulation
must
be
based
on
a
time
place
and
manner.
F
In
other
words,
without
considering
the
content,
a
City
May
regulate
the
location
of
a
sign,
the
size
of
the
signs
and
the
length
of
time.
A
sign
is
permitted
to
be
placed.
A
regulation
must
be
narrowly
tailored
to
serve
a
compelling
government
interest.
For
example,
a
compelling
government
interest
could
be
restricting
the
location.
Signs
can
be
placed
to
ensure
that
they
do
not
impede
The
Pedestrian
movement
or,
for
example,
the
they
block
the
line
of
sight
that
you
might
have
to
a
an
uncontrolled
intersection.
F
Finally,
any
regulation
cannot
unreasonably
limit
alternative
communication
forms.
The
basic
test
for
gauging
the
sufficiency
of
alternative
channels
is
that
whether
the
speaker
has
afforded
a
forum
that
is
accessible
and
where
the
intended
audience
is
expected
to
pass
this
criteria.
Criteria
is
primarily
concerned
with
the
locational
restrictions
on
parades
and
protests
and
requires
a
government
to
ensure
the
location.
Restrictions
imposed
are
sufficient
for
the
protester
to
have
access
to
their
intended
audience.
F
Now
again.
For
years
cities
Across
the
Nation,
including
Thousand
Oaks,
establish
different
regulations
for
different
subject
categories:
for
example,
nearly
every
city
in
the
country
had
a
regulation
that
treated
political
signs
different
from
Civic
or
non-profit
signs
and
from
sales
events
at
a
local
business.
F
They
based
these
distinctions
between
categories
of
signs
on
objective
factors,
so
they
did
use
objective
factors.
They
were
not
based
on
the
actual
message
conveyed
that
we
thought
was
good
and
for
years,
lower
courts
relied
on
prior
U.S,
Supreme
Court
case
law
that
held
that
a
law
is
content,
Mutual,
so
long
that
it
is
not
Viewpoint
based.
F
In
read
the
basis
for
the
challenge
was
the
towns
regulations
that
treated
political
signs
different.
They
treated
them
differently
from
the
temporary
religious
directional
signs.
Good
news,
Presbyterian
Church
was
a
church
that
had
no
permanent
home
in
the
town
of
Gilbert
and
therefore
would
post
temporary
signs
each
week
providing
directions
to
their
services
under
the
town's
ordinance.
These
signs
can
be
no
larger
than
six
square
feet
and
were
limited
in
duration
to
12
hours
before
and
one
hour
after
the
the
service
or
the
event.
F
F
So
the
U.S
Supreme
Court
struck
down
the
regulations
as
unconstitutional
it
held
that
government
regulation
of
speech
is
content-based,
which
is
bad
if
it
applies
to
particular
speech
because
of
the
topic
discussed
or
the
idea
or
the
message
expressed
most
significant.
It
held
that
if
a
sign
regulation
on
its
face
is
content-based,
its
public
purpose
doesn't
even
matter
in
this
case
the
town
of
Gilbert's
sign
ordinance
distinguished
between
political,
ideological
and
temporary
directional
signs.
Thus,
its
regulations
were
considered
content-based
on
its
face
and
therefore
unconstitutional.
F
In
response
to
the
read
case,
the
city
adopted
a
message
substitution
policy
in
its
sign
regulations.
It
states
that
any
Constitution
only
protected
non-commercial
message
of
any
category
or
content
may
be
substituted
in
whole,
learn
and
holding
in
part
for
any
allowed
commercial
message
or
any
other
protected
non-commercial
message.
F
F
While
this
policy
is
content
neutral,
it
can
be
confusing
when
a
particular
sign
specifically
identified
and
regulated
in
the
city.
Sign
regulations
does
not
meet
the
specific
regulation,
but
is
still
legally
permitted
under
the
message
substitution
policy
now.
The
second
thing
it
did
is
it
ensured
that
certain
non-commercial
messages
are
not
favored
over
other
non-commercial
speech.
F
T
With
that
I'd
like
to
transition
from
the
case
laws
and
the
First
Amendment
discussion
to
the
city
codes
with
the
most
of
the
city
sign
regulations
found
in
Title
IX
of
the
Thousand
expensive
code,
there
are
numerous
Provisions
which
are
considered
content
neutral.
For
example,
the
regulations
set
forth
criteria
based
on
whether
a
proposed
sign
is
about
permanent
sign
or
temporary
sign.
It
also
sets
forth
criteria
based
on
the
zoning
code
and
a
locational
standard
from
The
Zone
on
which
that
sign
is
located.
So
it's
a
commercial
institutional,
industrial
or
non-residential
sites.
T
T
T
The
regulations
also
set
forth
various
size
restrictions
depending
on
the
type
of
sign.
For
example,
political
science
could
be
12
square
feet.
Religious
directional
science
could
be
four
square
feet,
grand
opening
banners
could
be
60
to
90
square
feet
and
a
new
subdivision
sign
can
be
up
to
150
square
feet.
T
T
T
T
F
Thank
you,
Mr
Kearns,
so,
with
that
staff
recommends,
the
following
city
council
received
the
report
regarding
the
city's
current
Municipal
Code
sign
regulations
and
changes
in
the
law
provide
comments
and
direction
to
staff
regarding
any
desired
revisions
to
the
city's
signed
regulations
and
find
that
this
action
is
not
a
project
as
defined
by
the
California
Environmental
Quality
Act.
Thank
you
for
allowing
us
to
do
this
presentation
and
staff
is
available
for
questions.
Thank.
B
W
Hello
again,
Council
and
mayor,
my
primary
interest
in
this
ordinance
is
a
greater
clarification
for
my
industry.
In
particular,
we
deal
with
a
number
of
different
cities
that
have
different
permitting
requirements
as
far
as
open
house
signs
relative
to
our
our
other
signage,
and
so,
if
you
consider
making
any
changes
in
that,
I
would
appreciate
it
if
you
would
consider
Consulting
with
our
body
on
csmar
regarding
any
changes
you
make
or
notify
Us
in
in
that
situation,
but
otherwise
I.
W
B
Thank
you,
Mr
bus
Steph,
any
response
to
the
public
comment,
city
council,
any
questions,
Mr
Adam,
any
questions.
No,
no.
Okay,.
F
I
was
gonna,
say
first
for
staff
as
to
Mr
bus's
comment,
certainly
when
we
do
any
type
of
sign
regulation
changes
that
of
this
magnitude.
That
would
be
required
if
that
takes
place
at
some
point
in
time,
we
would
reach
out
to
the
stakeholders
to
ensure
that
they
have
provided
us
their
input,
that
is,
is
very
important
from
all
stakeholders
to
be
part
of
it.
R
Thank
you
mayor
and
yeah.
This
is
a
very
complex
issue.
There's
a
lot
to
it
and
it's
a
way
we
have
it
set
up
is
a
little
murky
I
like
the
idea
of
reviewing
this
making
it
simplifying
it.
Just
the
things
that
you
suggest
there
you
know
reduce
the
categories,
be
careful
that
everything's
non-content
based,
etc,
etc.
You
know
it
seems
to
me
we
should
get
the
general
plan
out
of
the
way
first
and
then
we
can
tackle
this
afterwards.
R
I'll
just
say
as
far
as
political
signs,
yeah
I
know,
some
of
the
folks
in
Thousand
Oaks
get
a
little
tired,
sometimes
of
seeing
the
political
signs,
but
I
would
just
remind
you
that
that's
what
makes
America
great
I
mean.
I
drive
down,
Thousand
Oaks
Boulevard
during
campaign
season.
I
see
those
signs
up.
That
may
it
makes
me
happy
I
mean
it
shows,
shows
you
that
there's
political
involvement
in
the
community.
You
know
we
can.
We
can.
We
can
endorse
candidates,
we
have
a
democracy,
it's
important
I,
don't
think
they
have
much
of
that.
R
North
Korea,
for
example,
back
too
many
political
signs,
but
so
for
the
folks
who
get
a
little
tired
of
them
just
be,
you
know,
be
patient
because
it
really
is
democracy
at
work.
It's
the
core
of
our
first
amendment
to
right
so
I'm
sure.
If
we
end
up
reviewing
this
as
I
think
we
should
that
you'll
be
taking
that
into
consideration.
B
H
Yeah,
thank
you.
Mr
Mayor,
the
I'm
I'm
relieved
to
hear
that
we
compare
favorably
to
North
Korea
I'm,
happy
to
hear
that
we.
H
I
think
having
a
comprehensive
look
at
our
sign
ordinance
is
probably
well
overdue.
In
reading
some
of
the
earlier
signed
ordinances
of
some
of
the
original
sign
directions,
there
was
a
lot
of
discussion
or
a
lot
of
direction
to
the
on
the
Aesthetics
side
of
of
signs.
We
don't
have
Billboards
and
Thousand
Oaks,
for
example
along
the
freeway.
H
That
was
a
conscious
effort
made
by
earlier
councils
and
earlier
peoples
who
had
are
part
of
this
community
I
think
we
need
to
keep
that
aesthetic
part
in
our
minds
as
well,
because
we
what
we
enjoy
today
is
a
result
of
some
attention
to
Aesthetics.
H
That
said,
we
also
need
to
make
sure
that
we
do
treat
our
our
signs
in
a
neutral
way.
I
do
not
want
to
get
in
in
any
way
in
in
the
abridge
someone's
free
speech.
That's
not
what
we
want
to
do
at
all.
H
As
far
as
Mr
bus
did
bring
it
up
and
I'm
glad
he
did.
There
are
some
legitimate
business
sides
of
signage
that
we
should
keep
in
in
line
I'm
sure,
as
we
go
forward
with
a
comprehensive
approach
to
our
signs,
we'll
be
contacting
the
chamber
and
other
other
organizations
in
town
that
have
a
vested
interest
in
signage
for
their
commercial
purposes,
but
also
if,
if
we're
talking
about
political
signs
to
contact,
perhaps
political
parties
and
that
sort
of
thing
to
find
out
their
take
on
it.
H
That
is
that
is
something
that
you
know.
I
think
I
encourage
staff
as
they
research
this
to
come
back
to
us
with
some
well-founded
input
from
other
organizations.
Thank
you.
Mr.
U
Thank
you.
My
first
comment
is
one
of
thanks
to
staff
for
explaining
a
complex
area
in
a
clear
way.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
that.
Well,
that
walk
through
my
my
next
comment
is
I.
Guess
more
of
a
question
to
my
colleagues
of
imagine
for
a
moment
any
of
you.
If
you
woke
up
one
morning
and
found
in
your
next
door,
neighbor's
yard
that
there
was
a
20
foot
tall,
hot,
pink
neon,
sign
advertising,
some
political
Viewpoint
that
you
found
really
onerous.
U
Well,
we
can't
do
anything
about
the
political
Viewpoint.
That's
the
First,
Amendment,
but
I
think
we
would
all
agree
that
that
we
do
we
do.
U
We
are
able
to
impose
restrictions
on
Aesthetics,
as
council
member
Engler
said,
and
along
several
other
dimensions,
that
staff
identified,
such
as
location
on
perhaps
time,
perhaps
zoning
and
other
things
so
I
don't
have
a
specific
suggestion,
but
my
ask
is
that
since
I
I
think
I
hope
we
all
agree
that
we
none
of
us
want
that
20-foot,
hot
pink
neon
sign
next
door
that
as
we
haggle
over
price
over
what
we,
what
we
do
find
acceptable
and
legal
that
we
take
these
other
dimensions
into
consideration.
Thank
you.
B
B
B
So
Mr
Adam
go
ahead.
You
have
a
follow-up.
R
Just
a
quick
follow-up
on
the
Aesthetics,
you
know
we
do
not
allow
signs
in
our
right-of-ways
and
we
do
not
allow
signs
on
our
medians,
unlike
some
of
our
neighboring
cities,
which
do
so
we
we
are
we're
very
aware
of
Aesthetics,
so
I
I
hope
we
will
continue
to
be
so.
B
Just
as
a
thought,
one
of
the
things
that
really
changed
this
last
campaign
cycle
was
the
way
our
ordinance
read.
Regarding
the
time
frame
in
which
you
can
put
a
sign
out
relative
to
the
day
of
voting.
Well,
it
turns
out
day
of
voting,
was
moved
to
mail-in
ballots,
so
that
lengthened
the
time
that
we
get
allowed
to
put
out
political
signs
that
extended
it,
whereas
making
it
shorter,
which
it
was
beforehand.
B
That
was
a
minor
inconvenience
for
a
short
time.
Now,
we've
got
a
longer
time
period
for
the
inconvenience
of
the
science
being
out
as
long
as
they
are
so
again,
it's
one
of
those
changes
that
occurred
and
I
think
our
city
does
a
very
good
job,
both
those
that
run
for
office,
as
well
as
the
ordinances
to
allow
political
expression,
especially
during
campaigns,
but
also
maintaining
the
Aesthetics
that
we
enjoy
here
for
a
short
time
here
in
Thousand
Oaks
every
couple
years,
any
other
questions
by
Council,
Mr
Newman.
U
This
is
a
question
for
for
Council
are:
are
we
able
even
to
impose
time
limits
on
political
speech
since,
since
we're
not
able
to
do
any
sort
of
content
regulation
distinguishing
political
from
anything
else?
That's
non-commercial,
because.
B
D
D
Can
you
know
what
what
some
cities
are
starting
to
do
and
we've
started
looking
at
it
is,
perhaps
you
know
you
know,
I
I
in
our
my
conversation
with
you,
I
talked
about
different
signs.
I
have
a
couple
garden,
flags
and
I.
Have
you
know
the
address
on
my
house,
and
you
know
I
love,
monarchs
I've
got
a
little
monarch
sign
and
what
some
cities
have
done
is
they've
taken
approach
to
not
prohibit
people
from
having
those
types
of
signs,
but
have
a
a
total
square
foot.
D
You
know
a
total
number
of
signs
you
can
have
and
what
that,
but
no
time
restrictions
on
it.
But
what
that
means
is
I
can
also
have
a
political
sign
in
my
front
yard,
365
days
a
year,
whether
it's
vote
for
so
and
so
or
I
support,
whatever
political
ideology
I
have,
it
can
be
whatever
I
want,
because
cities
can't
control
the
content.
U
B
D
Right
so
one
thing
I
just
need
clarification
on
in
in
again,
as
staff
has
indicated,
is
that
there
there
is
an
intention
to
do
a
comprehensive
sign
code,
update,
From
staff's
perspective.
The
timing
of
that
comprehensive
update
should
occur
after
the
general
plan
is
adopted
to
make
sure
it's
consistent
with
the
general
plan.
Land
use,
designations
goals
and
policies.
So,
if
that
is,
if
that
is
in
your
agreement,
I
would
need
a
motion
as
that
being
part
of
the
direction
of
the
city
council.
B
U
H
One
one
quick
question:
we
have
a
comment
go
ahead.
One
moment
just
say
a
caveat
of
that
and
you'll
say
heads
up
to
all
the
people
in
our
community.
That
does
mean
that
we
probably
will
not
have
something
in
place
by
the
next
campaign
season.
So
that's
when
we
get
most
of
our
complaints
about
signs.
I
just
want
everyone
to
know
that
probably
we
won't
have
something
in
place
by
then
wait.
B
B
D
Anticipation
again
remember
any
regulation.
I'm
telling
you
right
now
will
not
have
a
specific
regulation
regarding
political
science.
So
you
can't.
You
cannot
do
that.
So
you
know
I
I
appreciate,
there's
a
lot
of
confusion
with
respect
to
our
sign
ordinance,
because
we
did
what
we
could
to
ensure
constitutionality
with
that,
and
we
adopted
that
message.
D
Substitution
policy
that
does
result
in
a
lot
of
confusion,
though
so
I
can
have
a
political
sign,
but
it
doesn't
meet
that
political
sign
criteria,
but
it
meets
a
commercial
sign
criteria
or
another
non-commercial
message
criteria
and
it's
legal
and
ultimately
any
comprehensive
sign
regulation
will
make
sure
that
we
are
not
regulating
based
on
the
message
or
the
content.
So
when
that
occurs,
it'll
happen
after
the
general
plan,
but
to
process
a
development
uptake
up
date
takes
a
lot
of
time
as
well.
It's
not
just
the
signs
that
are
being
considered
in
the
development
code.
D
B
B
U
D
D
Not
doing
anything
like
that,
the
city
will
still
continue
to
remove
any
sign,
regardless
of
its
content
that
is
located
within
our
public
right-of-way
or
our
medians.
That's
what
we
have
been
doing.
It
doesn't
matter
whether
it's
a
mattress
sale
or
a
campaign
sign
or
a
fundraiser
event
doesn't
matter
what
it
is.
If
it's
in
our
public
right-of-way,
we
will
remove
it.
If
it's
on
our
property,
we
also
have
our
own
rights
as
well.
It's
the
private
property
issues,
and
it's
also
commercial
speech
we
can
continue
to.
U
D
For
example,
when
I
talked
about
when,
when
Patrick
talked
about
how
one
type
of
sign
gets
to
be
150
square
feet,
I
have
to
take
that
into
account
whether
the
message
substitution
policy
right,
it's
very
complicated
and
it's
very
complex
and
I
I
totally
appreciate
the
confusion,
because
it
is
very
confusing.
So
the
types
of
regulations
within
on
private
property
for
non-commercial
speech
it's
very
difficult
to
enforce,
because
as
council
member
Adam
discussed,
this
is
core
First
Amendment
activity.
U
D
Q
B
You,
let's
move
on
to
13c
campaign
contribution,
update
City
Clerk,
it's
yours.
Thank.
C
So
good
evening,
again,
mayor
and
council
members,
this
presentation
will
cover
discussion
of
the
campaign
contribution
limit.
Yes,
you
get
me
twice:
Mr
Adam!
So
just
first
of
all,
just
some
history.
In
1998,
the
city
of
Thousand
Oaks,
adopted
a
local
campaign
Finance
ordinance
in
2013.
It
was
extensively
reviewed
and
updated
for
consistency
with
state
law
as
well
as
Council
decorate.
Excuse
me
direction.
The
update
included
an
increase
of
the
campaign
contribution
limit
from
380
dollars
to
500
and
then
directed
that
that
500
base
be
reevaluated
in
five
years,
which
was
December
2018..
C
C
So,
for
some
comparison
purposes
we
pulled
other
Ventura
County
cities
to
determine
which
cities
have
adopted
campaign
contribution,
ordinances
and
then
what
those
amounts
are
so
out
of
the
nine
cities.
Four
have
limits,
as
you
can
see,
from
the
chart.
Simi
Valley
has
a
higher
limit
of
a
thousand
dollars.
Fillmore
Ventura
and
Oxnard
have
lower
limits.
Film
Wars
is
250
dollars.
Ventura
has
a
slightly
different
calculation,
so
they
have
a
voluntary
expenditure
ceiling
in
the
amount
of
forty
six
thousand
dollars
and
contribution
limits.
C
C
So,
just
for
some
historical
perspective,
we
did
review
the
city's
last
seven
elections
from
2012
to
2022
and
we
figured
out
that
the
average
amount
of
money
that
was
raised
by
candidates
was
by
a
candidate.
Excuse
me
was
thirty,
six
thousand
two
hundred
and
twenty
five
dollars,
whereas
the
average
amount
spent
was
thirty,
six
thousand
seventy
five
dollars.
C
So
it's
also
worth
noting
that
during
the
past
four
General
Municipal
elections,
we
did
not
receive
any
comments
from
candidates
regarding
the
limit,
either
positive
or
negative,
and
as
directed
in
the
ordinance
every
five
years
city
council
must
reevaluate
and
give
us
Direction.
Regarding
that
500
base
limit
in
setting
the
amount
for
future
elections,
I
do
want
to
point
out
that
there
has
been
some
recent
legislation
affecting
the
campaign
contribution
limits.
C
As
mentioned
earlier,
we
have
assembly
Bill
571
that
states
the
state
campaign
contribution
limit
applies
by
default
to
City
candidates
when
the
city
does
not
have
its
own
law
regarding
contribution
limits.
So
the
current
state
contribution,
as
mentioned,
was
fifty
five
hundred
dollars
per
contributor
per
election.
The
law
went
into
effect
in
January
2021,
but
does
not
affect
the
city
because
we
have
adopted
our
own
contribution
limits.
C
This
year,
however,
Senate
Bill
1439
went
into
effect.
This
bill
extends
the
Levine
Act
of
the
political
reform
act
to
local
elected
officials
before
it
had
only
affected
State
officials.
So
the
new
law
prohibits
city
council
members
from
accepting
soliciting
or
directing
a
campaign
contribution
of
250
or
more.
C
So,
pursuant
to
the
fair
political
practices
commission's
official
opinion,
Senate
Bill
1439
does
not
apply
to
contributions
for
the
2022
election
cycle,
but
will
apply
to
all
future
contributions.
However,
it's
again
worthy
of
noting
that
the
author
of
the
bill
has
requested
the
State
Attorney
General
opine
that
the
new
law
does
apply
to
the
2022
election
and
we
are
still
awaiting
a
response
from
the
attorney
general.
C
Should
the
council
provide
Direction
on
potential
changes
to
that
500
base
limit
staff
will
return
at
a
future
meeting
with
an
update
or
a
draft
ordinance
for
a
council's
consideration
and
I
do
as
outlined
in
the
staff
report,
I've
laid
out
some
options
that
could
be
considered.
So,
of
course,
we
could
do
nothing.
We
could
make
no
change
and
continue
to
increase
the
limit
and
keep
the
base
at
500
and
increase
the
limit
by
CPI.
C
You
could
choose
to
increase
the
limit
to
a
new
figure:
that's
not
based
on
CPI.
You
could
remove
contribution
limits
from
the
city's
ordinance
altogether
and
defer
the
state
limit.
Therefore,
using
ab571
you
could
remove
contribution
limits
and
affirmatively
state
that
there
is
no
limit
and
then
ab571
will
not
apply.
C
However,
the
text
of
the
law
states,
it
applies
to
contributions
of
more
than
250.
I
thought
it
had
250
or
more,
but
it
was
not
so
that
has
been
changed
so
much
like
the
sign
item.
We
are
requesting
direction
from
the
council
regarding
the
city's
campaign
contribution
limits,
and
we
need
to
find
that
this
action
is
not
a
project
as
defined
by
sequa.
C
B
You
for
the
presentation,
Council
any
questions.
B
B
C
I'd
like
to
read
this,
so
it
says
before
decision
is
made
on
the
application,
you
must
disclose
on
the
record
that
you
received
more
than
250
in
the
past
12
months.
12.
V
B
Money
received
receive
the
money:
okay,
yeah,
very
good
counsel,
any
other
questions.
Okay.
So
let's
open
up
to
speakers,
we
have
one
back
for
popular
demand:
Mr
bus.
You
have
three
minutes.
W
Thank
you,
I
just
wanted
to
add
my
input
on
this
I
believe
that
the
system
that
we've
had
in
place
for
for
almost
20
years
now,
or
maybe
it's
a
little
more
than
that,
has
been
highly
effective
and
I
would
like
to
see
it
continue.
I,
definitely
don't
want
to
see
us
raise
our
limits
to
5500
I.
Don't
think
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense.
W
I
think
that
it
would
behoove
us
if
we
were
considering
it
to
to
do
a
tiered
system
if
people
are
interested
in
in
capping
their
their
contributions,
but
I
don't
see
that
being
super
popular
with
this
crowd,
so
I'll
leave
it
at
that,
and
thank
you
for
your
time.
C
B
Council
Mr
Adam
any
comments
or
questions
of.
R
Staff,
no,
no,
are
we
in
the
discussion
period,
just
one.
R
Section,
thank
you
officially
in
the
discussion
period,
excellent,
that's
wonderful!
Okay!
Well,
we've
all
campaigned,
we've
all
been
elected
and
I
think
we
would
all
agree
that
a
campaigning
has
become
increasingly
more
and
more
expensive.
Over
the
years.
I'll
tell
you
a
quick
anecdote.
I
was
speaking
with
a
former
mayor
who
ran
for
City
Council
in
the
1960s,
and
his
campaign.
Expenditures
were
exactly
two
hundred
and
fifty
dollars
and
it
consisted
of
running
a
wagon
down
teal
Boulevard,
saying
to
vote
for
him
Okay.
So
we've
come
a
long
way
from
that.
R
You
know
to
run
a
successful
campaign
here
in
Thousand
Oaks.
It
is
expensive
and
if
you're
a
Challenger,
it's
even
more
difficult
because
you're
trying
to
unseat
an
incumbent
who
has
an
advantage
of
being
able
to
raise
money,
you
know
relatively
easier
versus
a
Challenger,
so
I
think
I.
Think
we've
been
very
conservative
with
with
these
numbers
think
think
about
this.
For
a
minute
in
1999
it
was
250
bucks,
okay,
24
years
later,
it's
580..
R
So
that's
24
years.
The
difference
between
those
two
numbers
is
330
dollars
divide
that
by
24
years
we've
raised
it
13.75
cents
a
year
between
1999
and
today,
I
would
say
by
any
measure
it's
been
pretty
conservative,
so
I
I,
for
what
I'm
getting
at
for
me
I
think
there's
room
to
raise
it
a
little
I'm,
not
not
to
the
5500
that
that's
off
the
table,
but
I
I
think
that
considering
campaigns
are
more
expensive
and
considering
Challengers,
who
need
a
little
more
latitude,
I
think
to
raise
money
to
take
on
an
incumbent.
R
Frankly,
I
think
we
could
consider
raising
it.
I
I
have
a
number
in
mind,
I,
don't
know
if
you
want
to
hear
it
or
not,
or
do
you
want
you
do
okay,
this.
R
B
R
I
think
that's
reasonable
and
I
think
that
certainly
you
know
would
would
appear
to
people
running
a
little
bit,
especially
Challengers.
Give
them
a
little
bit
of
chance.
Let.
R
B
R
Think
that's
a
little
more
than
it
was
a
little
more!
Oh.
B
U
B
My
favorite
position
is
I
want
to
go
with
the
state
limit
of
5500
and
index
to
CPI
from
that
point
forward,
because
I
think
helps
the
Challenger
candidate
to
unseat
and
elected,
because
it's
easier
to
identify
a
smaller
number
of
people
who
are
willing
to
give
the
5500
as
a
state
level
and
have
a
reasonable
chance
of
getting
elected
anything
lower
than
that.
In
my
opinion,
this
is
favoring
us
as
council
members
and
to
me
that
sense
of
fairness
does.
R
Not
hold
I
I
understand
what
you're,
saying
and
and
I
was
very
surprised
to
read
in
the
staff
report
that
six
out
of
the
ten
cities
in
Ventura
County
actually
have
that
defaulted.
5500
number,
the
only
thing
I
would
say
to
that,
is
I,
don't
believe
they
ever
had
any
campaign
Finance
laws
to
begin
with,
but
we
do
we
we
do
so
I
think
I
have
to
I
feel
like
I
have
to
honor
that
and
the
history
behind
it
and
to
make
that
jump
from
where
we
are
now
at
580
to
5500
I.
R
Think
that
might
be
a
little
prohibitive,
tighten.
B
Your
seat
belt,
my
friend
correct
me,
if
I'm
on
Westlake
Village
City
of
Westlake
I,
believe
they're
5500
as
well.
Is
that
correct,
unfortunately,.
B
C
B
Information
I
believe
they're
5500,
but
to
your
point,
Madam
clerk,
how
many
cities
in
Ventura
actually
have
5500
one
two,
three
four
I.
R
An
exception
to
the
rule:
we're
not
like
them,
though,
because
see
me
Ventura
us
and,
and
one
or
two
others
have
had
a
tradition
of
a
campaign.
Finance
law
and.
H
B
B
B
D
P
P
D
D
R
B
U
You
mayor
I've,
talked
with
a
whole
lot
of
candidates,
both
in
my
life
in
politics
and
for
many
years
in
newspapers
and
magazines
before
that-
and
this
is
the
first
time
ever
in
my
life
and
I'm-
a
pretty
old
guy
that
I've
ever
heard.
Anyone
suggest
especially
a
candidate,
saying
gee
I,
wish
the
the
I
think
a
higher
campaign
ceiling
would
would
be
lower
barrier
to
entry.
I've
heard
exactly
the
opposite.
U
From
every
single
candidate,
I've
ever
talked
to
they've
all
said
that
the
higher
the
campaign
contribution,
that's
possible,
the
more
it
favors
incumbents
and
is
a
higher
barrier
to
entry
for
Challengers
council
members,
Adam
mentioned
Challengers
and
their
their
right
to
get
in
there
and
I
guess
the
question
I
would
ask
around
this
is
if
we
change
the
system
we
have
now
and
I
agree
with
Mr
bus's
comment
that
it
worked
has
worked
quite
well
since
1998..
What
what
problem
are
we
solving.
B
B
B
They
don't
have
the
access
that
we
have
to
the
big
money,
people
who
have
talked
to
us
over
the
years
that
we
are
here
in
elected
office.
Therefore,
the
person
that
goes
out
and
is
elected
sitting
here
at
this
diocese
behind
this
diocese
on
this
Council
have
an
advantage
over
the
Challenger
when
it's
a
lower
limit,
because
it's
going
to
require
more
people.
B
U
The
Challenger
candidate
to
get
elected
problem-
and
there
are
other
factors
I-
think
we
need
to
consider
here,
for
example,
the
the
the
issue
of
influence,
but,
let's
reduce,
let's
reduce
it
by
half.
Let's
say
you
can
get
there
with:
let's
set
the
cap
at
ten
thousand,
so
only
10
people
need
to
do
it.
That's
a
small
enough
number
of
people
that
10
10
people
could
say
we're
influencing
this
person.
We
got
them,
we
put
them
in
this
race
at
some
point.
U
A
U
Can
finish,
A
system
that
that
favors
oligarchs,
where
a
very
few
well-heeled
contributors
can
Define
the
the
who
is
and
is
not
a
candidate
is,
is
not
a
is
not
a
fair
playing
field?
It's
not
it's
not
an
accessible
playing
field.
It's
not
it's!
Not
small
D
Democratic.
So.
B
U
B
Q
Q
The
three
of
us
here
that
won
was
more
than
thirty
thousand
so
having
to
get
so
many,
even
if
Max
donation
580s,
that
was
the
hardest
amount
of
money.
I
have
ever
raised
and
I
raise
money
for
a
living.
I've
been
raising
money
for
the
last
12
years.
I
know
how
to
do
this
very
very
well.
It
was
insanely
difficult
and
I
was
a
newcomer.
I
just
happened
to
come
from
an
industry
that
I
was
trained
to
do
so.
Looking
at
the
other
people
that
were
running
with
us,
I
watched
a
lot
of
them
struggle.
Q
It
is
difficult,
so
I
tend
to
believe
that
if
you
have
a
big
lead
list
which
is
typically
going
to
come
from,
if
not
one,
two
or
three
attempts
of
running
a
campaign
until
you
get
elected
you're,
just
building
that
list
over
and
over.
So
there
is
this
idea
that
you
have
an
unfair
Advantage,
because
you
can
go
straight
to
that
list
before
starting
so
I,
I
I'll
just
get
the
three
and
then
I'll
open
it
up
to
you.
Q
Q
I
think
it
incentivizes
you
to
use
independent
expenditures
and
start
getting
big
donors
to
money
and
outside
packs
that
are
then
going
to
run
your
marketing
for
you
or
take
some
of
the
expenses
down,
and
it's
almost
an
incentive
to
remove
transparency,
because
you
don't
know
who
these
groups
are
and
you're
kind
of
going
around
the
system
to,
even
though
it's
legal
to
get
a
larger
donation
in.
So
me
personally,
I
kind
of
like
the
idea.
Q
If
we
raise
this
this
amount
up
in
theory,
it
offers
more
transparency
because
now
you're
seeing
the
actual
dollars
coming
in
now,
we
at
least
have
transparency
for
your
risk,
which
is
who
who's
giving
you
these
dollars
and
how
are
they
influencing
you
because
I
think?
That's
something
that
everyone
needs
to
see
so
I,
actually
like
the
idea
of
the
limit
coming
up
for
those
reasons,
but
I'll
open
up
to
you.
H
Go
ahead,
thank
you.
Mr
Mayor
yeah.
It's
an
interesting
topic
because,
having
having
been
a
challenger,
an
unknown
Challenger
politically
in
town
really
and
also
running
as
an
incumbent
I
have
a
sort
of
a
an
advantage.
From
perspective
that
everybody,
but
perhaps
Mr
Adam,
has
it
takes
work
to
raise
funds
for
a
campaign.
Mr
Mr
Adam
was
correct.
It
Thousand
Oaks
has
been
judicious
in
its
campaign.
Finance
limits.
If
you
look
at
I,
did
a
little
bit
a
little
bit
of
work
on
on
this
there's.
H
As
you
pointed
out,
Mr
Adam
there's
five
cities
in
in
Ventura
County
that
have
the
state
limit.
5500
bucks,
there's
some
others
that
don't
Fillmore
has
a
250
dollar
limit.
Roughly
half
of
our
limit.
Their
population
is
16
000
people.
Ours
is
125.
H
of
there's
a
difference
in
scale
there
that's
hard
to
to
match.
Ventura
has
limits
and
it
has
a
campaign
limit
of
46
000.,
their
districts
yeah.
We
we're
elected
at
large,
Oxnard
same
thing:
districts,
a
500
limit,
Simi
Valley
has
a
thousand
dollar
limit.
Their
districts
we're
the
biggest
city
by
far
with
the
lowest
donation
amount
in
all
of
Ventura
County.
By
far
so,
we've
been
very
judicious
in
how
we've
approached
it.
H
H
H
I,
don't
want
to
see
us
make
it
too
low,
but
that
said
we
have
had
a
not.
This
is
to
Mr
buss's
comment.
We
have
had
a
system
in
our
city
that,
for
the
past,
20
years
has
worked
very
well.
It
is
it
is.
It
is
hard
to
raise
the
money.
H
H
H
I
think
that
we
have
a
right
now.
We're
at
580.,
we'll
probably
have
I,
would
say.
Eight
percent
because
of
CPI
this
year,
probably
put
us
in
the
five
or
six
30
range
that
that
is
just
Joseph.
We
go
with
what
we
have
Mr
Adam
has
recommended.
700
I
really
have
no
problem
with
that
I
think
700
is
a
number
that
is
a
will
accomplish
what
we
need
to
have
accomplish,
because
things
are
expensive.
I,
don't
know
about
my
colleagues
but
I
I
know
a
single
mailing
to
Thousand.
H
Kicker
CPI
kicker
yeah
same
as
what
we
have
now
just
reset
at
700.,
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
influence,
pedaling
and
being
a
a
bought
Soldier,
so
to
speak.
H
If,
if
that's
a
concern
to
people,
you
really
have
to
look
at
who
you're
voting
for
then
in
term.
For
for
me
personally,.
H
My
Integrity
would
not
allow
that
to
happen,
and
people
who
vote
for
me
I
hope
know
that,
no
matter
what
people
or
who
gives
me
a
donation,
my
Integrity
stands
way
above
any
amount
of
money,
even
if
it
was
the
fifty
five
hundred
dollars
so
I
I
would
encourage
everyone
out
there
to
look
at
who
you're
voting,
for.
If
you
think
that
that
person
could
be
influenced
by
any
amount
of
money,
don't
vote
for
them.
H
With
that
said,
I
think
I
would
I
would
go
with
on
my
colleague's
advice
to
go
to
a
700
plus
a
CPI
that
keeps
us
in
the
same
mode
of
operation
that
we've
been
in,
but
I
think
reflects
the
inflation
we've
seen
in
campaigning.
Mr
Newman
your
hand
was
up
it.
U
Council
member
angler
went
through
I
concur
with
almost
all
of
it
he's
right
about
campaigning
being
very
hard
work
and
it
should
be,
and
if,
if
you
have
to
go
to
a
lot
of
people
to
raise
money
you're
connecting
with
the
people
who
put
us
here
and
that's
a
good
thing,
and
and
yes,
this
is
one
of
the
hardest
things
you
can
do
to
get
here,
but
you
earn
that
and
you
earn
it
by
talking
to
lots
of
people,
not
10
people
on
the
influence.
U
Part
I,
don't
know
anyone
with
more
Integrity
than
my
calling
and
that's
a
wonderful
thing.
The
issue
as
we
learn
in
our
ethics
training
is
we
have
a
duty
to
the
public
not
only
of
to
have
actual
Integrity,
but
also
the
perception
of
integrity
and
so
really
high
dollar
caps,
that
that
would
allow
very
few
people
to
essentially
get
one
candidate
elected,
create
a
perception
problem,
not
just
a
reality
problem
that
that
concerns
me
very
much.
U
This
discussion
started
with
council
member
Adam,
suggesting
700
I,
think
plus
CPI
I
hadn't
actually
voiced
an
opinion
on
where
we
should
be
I'm
I'm.
Okay,
with
that
I
I,
would
be
okay
with
leaving
it
at
five
five.
U
Eighty
plus
CPI
I,
don't
think
700
is
that
big
of
a
bump
it's
a
little
bit
more
I
will
close
by
noting
that
in
the
most
recent
election,
the
three
council
members
who
got
elected
were
the
three
who
raised
the
most
money,
and
so
it
is
in
terms
of
barriers
to
entry
in
terms
of
making
it
difficult
for
Challengers.
It
is
a
concern,
so
I'm
I'm,
much
more
comfortable
at
the
700
end
of
this
than
I
am
at
the
5500
in
thank.
R
H
Over
to
Mr
Taylor,
thank
you,
Mr
Mayor,
just
a
quick
comment.
If
we
go
to
anything
above
the
250,
though,
currently
we're
not
allowed
to
have
holdover
accounts,
the.
What
will
happen
is
if,
if
in
practicality,
if
somebody
comes
to
us
or
we
discover,
one
of
our
donors-
gave
us
a
donation
and
that
then
now
work
for
somebody
that
has
work
comes
before
us.
H
We
have
to
be
able
to
pay
that
person
back
or
recruit,
so
anything
we
do
I
think
needs
to
have
a
carryover
account
that
we
can
draw
from,
because
that
that's
gonna
you
have
to
do
your
state
reporting
on
that
and
keeping
all
that
going
for
at
least
a
year
after
you
get
elected.
So
that's
one
caveat
I
would
put
there.
Thank.
Q
Where
I
agree
with
you,
especially
if
you're
someone
new
with
with
no
name
recognition,
it
costs
money
to
get
your
name
recognition
out.
I
think
I
raised
more
money
than
you.
You
beat
me
in
votes,
so
you
know
I
I.
It
gets
you
to
a
point.
I
still
think
you
have
to
perform
beyond
that.
Q
One
thing:
I'll
say
about
the
the
750
I'll
talk
to
700
700
700,
700,
okay,
I,
really
like
what
what
you
said,
Mr
Engler,
about
putting
in
the
work
it
that
was
exhausting,
but
we
got
to
you
know,
benefit
from
the
fruits
of
our
labor
right
I,
really
like
how
you
phrase
that,
and
so
considering
that,
and
also
considering
that
I
think
we
should
all
make
efforts
towards
having
everyone
see
where
these
dollars
are
coming
from
or
or
not
putting
money
into
IES
right.
Q
B
C
It's
not
I,
couldn't
tell
you
the
exact
date,
but
it's
been
decades.
B
Okay,
second
question:
as
you
know,
with
statistics,
when
you
have
a
number
of
candidates
that
raise
zero
or
five
hundred
a
thousand
dollars,
which
we
do
have
quite
a
few
of
those
that
just
love
the
Limelight
to
put
their
name
in
the
ring
and
be
invited
to
debates
and
put
out
their
message
about
aliens
coming
in
to
visit
the
Earth.
If
we
removed
all
those
our
average
would
definitely
go
up.
B
Would
you
agree
there
was
a
there's
like
three
four
candidates
every
year
that
basically
put
in
zero
to
their
campaign
potentially,
and
that's
what
I've
noticed
over
the
years
when
I've
done
it?
The
last
18
and
20
Cycle.
My
point
being
is
that
by
our
having
low
campaign
limits
of
700
dollars,
this
hurts
the
low-income
candidate
who
may
be
coming
from
a
low-income
family,
because
they
don't
know
a
lot
of
people
that
can
come
up
with
that
number
of
700
550
580
whatever
it
may
be,
because
they
can't
do
that.
B
But
yet
they
may
know
10
people
that
will
say
I,
believe
in
you
and
I'm
going
to
give
you
the
5500.
now
you're
cooking.
So
by
our
having
low
limits
again,
Hurts
The,
Challenger
or
candidate,
but
it
also
hurts
those
that
are
low-income
candidates
who
do
not
have
the
resources
of
a
bob
angler.
Who
knows,
people
that
are
millionaires
and
billionaires,
Bob
hangs
with
those
folks,
and
he
knows
them
very,
very
well.
Don't
you
Bob,
but
the
point
being
is
that
Bob,
your
network
is
huge.
You
and
Sue
are
well
known
in
this
community.
B
B
So
that's
why
I
say
the
higher
limit
helps
the
candidate
who
wants
to
come
in
and
get
elected
who's
the
Challenger,
and
that's
why
the
550
limit
I
think
is
appropriate.
It
shuts
down
the
dark
money
from
going
into
packs
to
pay
for
their
candidate
of
their
choice.
It
shows
where
the
money's
coming
from
and
it
helps
those
low-income
candidates
who
can
get
10
people
together
to
give
them
fifty
five
hundred
dollars.
So
with
that
I
believe
I've
got
Mr
Newman,
then
I'll
come
back
to
Mr
Adam.
U
Yeah
two
things:
one
one:
we're
appearing
dark
money
spread
around
or
talked
about
and
as
a
fear,
a
lot.
What
we're
talking
about
here
is
not
that
we're
talking
about
money
that
we
all
report
in
public.
These
are.
This
is
contributions
that
must
by
state
law,
go
on
the
460
report.
So
that's
not
by
definition,
not
dark
money.
U
There
is
a
concern
and
I
think
a
polluting
and
corrupting
influence
of
iecs
from
the
outside
that
that
threat
exists,
regardless
of
whether
the
limit
is
580
or
700
or
5500.
That's
a
separate
problem
and
kind
of
a
bogeyman
in
this.
In
this
debate,
number
one
number
two
I
didn't
quite
understand:
council
member
English
point
about
holding
the
holdover
account
the
need
for
it.
U
He
just
explained
it
to
me
really
clearly
and
I.
Think
it's
going
to
be
a
very
good
question
for
staff
attorneys,
which
is
if
there
is
this
one-year
window
post
contribution.
U
C
We
have
a
requirement
that
you
cannot
raise
money
90
days,
post
the
election
and
that
money
must
be
used
in
very
specific
ways,
but
I
just
did
check
with
staff,
and
we
have
four
campaign
committees
that
are
still
open
from
the
2022.
The
onus
is
on
then
the
campaign
manager,
Treasurer
or
the
candidate
himself
or
herself
to
maintain
that
those
reporting,
the
semi-annuals
and
also
they
have
to
talk
with
the
Secretary
of
State
about
paying
that
fine
again.
C
So
historically,
the
city
clerk
department
has
advised
that
we're
going
to
get
you
that
that
refund
from
the
county
as
fast
as
we
can
in
December
and
have
you
turn
that
paperwork
around
and
stay
stamp
it
in
by
the
31st,
so
that
you
don't
have
these
lingering
reports
and
you
don't
have
to
pay
the
SOS
again.
In
addition
to
Mr
Taylor's
point,
you
don't
have
to
pay
Personnel
staff.
U
So
to
to
council
member
English
Point
you're,
saying
a
campaign
would
be
allowed
to
keep
a
campaign
checking
account
or
some
kind
of
account
open
year-round
that
there's
no
prohibition
on
that.
It's
it's
it's
the
reporting
requirements
that
would.
C
Come
correct
and
it's
the
use
of
that
campaign,
so
we
do
not.
The
city
of
Thousand
Oaks
does
not
allow
you
to
use
campaign
funds
raised
for
one
election
for
future
elections.
Fppc
has
a
different
rule
on
that,
but
but
Thousand
Oaks
is
very
clear,
so
you
would
be
able
to
keep
that
and
you
would
have
to
keep
that
because
you
cannot
co-mingle
your
personal
and
your
campaign
fund,
so
you
would
have
to
keep
a
dedicated
account
for
those
reasons.
U
So
practical
as
a
practical
matter,
I
just
want
to
understand.
If
we
do
something
that
we
we
have
to
comply
with
this
250
limit,
if
there
is
a
need
to
refund
a
campaign,
can
keep
the
account
open
and
make
refunds
from
that
and
that's
the
end
of
it
for
for
a
year,
because
after
the
year
after
the
last
contribution,
it's
moon
right.
B
Yeah
very
good,
my
question
for
Council
Members,
I'm
I'm,
looking
at
550.
and
it
sort
of
sounding
like
an
auction
here,
5500
we're
looking
at
5500
and
then
we're
talking
50..
So
there
you
go
and
then
we
have
700
with
a
CPI.
We
have
a
thousand
as
another
number
I'm
thinking.
What
are
your
thoughts
on,
say,
2500
with
a
CPI
built
in
so
that
way
it
helps
the
incumbent
candidate
to
raise
money,
and
yet
it
still
keeps
it
comfortable
for
some
of
the
other
council
members
here.
What
are
your
thoughts.
R
Go
ahead,
Mr
Adam,
let
me
just
say:
councilmember
Taylor
brought
up
a
good
point
when
you're,
when
you're
new
and
you're
an
unknown
and
you're
facing
a
incumbent,
it
it's
hard
to
raise
money,
and
so
I
ran
as
a
challenger
twice
twice
and
it
I
only
had
so
many
people
I
knew
to
call
for
money.
So
what?
R
And
so
it
would
have
helped
me
if
I
called
Joe
Smith
and
was
able
to
get
750
instead
of
500,
because
I
had
a
very
limited
amount
of
people
to
draw
from
so
as
it
turned
out,
I
had
to
kick
in
my
own
money,
which
Maryland
may
never
forgive
me
for,
but
regardless
to
try
to
be
competitive,
I
couldn't
be
competitive.
R
But
you
know
what,
regardless
of
what
amount
we
list
here,
I
think
these
independent
and
expenditure
committees
are,
you
know
a
reality
and
they're
going
to
exist,
no
matter
what
and
they're
going
to
raise
big
money
and
we're
not
going
to
know
where
it's
coming
from
a
lot
of
it
and
it's
I'm
not
so
sure
it
has
a
direct
influence
on
what
our
campaign
Finance
number
happens
to
be.
I
think
that
the
wave
of
the
future
they're
already
happening
now
and
they're
already
influencing
elections
by
by
far
anyway.
R
C
Do
we
see
both
of
your
points?
Yes,
for.
R
R
C
D
B
U
U
I
am
going
to
concur
with
Mr
Adam
I
share
his
concern
about
not
being
the
most
the
highest
regulated
place
in
the
county.
It
I
don't
think
that
makes
sense.
U
I
agree
with
other
comments
that
our
system
has
worked
very
well
since
1998.,
so
I,
don't
I,
don't
see
700
as
that
big,
a
bump,
I
think
I.
Think
it's
a
reasonable
increase
and
doesn't
have
some
of
the
the
downsides
of
the
concerns
that
I've
raised
so
I
I
would
I
would
support
emotion
as
Mr
Adams
suggested.
Thank.
B
R
K
R
Meet
you
there,
mayor,
I'm,
sorry
for
me,
so
I
I
will
go
ahead
and
make
a
motion
since
I'm
allowed
to
thank
you
very
much
and
really
I
guess
the
motion,
just
whatever
the
right.
C
R
Five
different
choices,
but
my
choice
would
be
to
raise
the
contribution
limit
to
750
bucks
with
a
CPI
kicker.
So.
C
D
B
C
C
With
the
CPI
escalator
and
to
find
that
this
is
not
a
SQL
project,
and
would
you
also
like
to
include
another
review
in
an
odd
Year?
Yes,.
I
C
We
have
to
vote
okay,
so
council
member
angler.
Please.
C
L
B
B
B
B
AA
This
action
tonight
is
the
first
step
in
our
biennial
budget
process,
although
this
is
the
first
time
we
are
presenting
at
city
council.
During
this
budget
process,
staff
has
been
diligently
working
on
our
user
fees.
In
specifics
since
mid-2022.,
we
also
presented
the
proposed
user
fees
to
our
finance
audit
committee
last
week
on
March
9th.
AA
The
proposed
user
fees
manual
includes
261
fees
with
approximately
660
sub-component
fee
items.
The
fees
comprise
both
development
related
user
fees,
as
well
as
non-development,
related
user
fees
also
included
in
our
user
fee
manual.
Our
development
impact
fees
rates
and
special
assessments,
which
will
all
be
discussed
during
this
presentation.
AA
Prior
to
discussing
the
proposed
fees,
it's
important
to
Define
what
constitutes
a
fee
versus
a
tax,
as
the
distinction
is
important
in
November
2010,
the
public
voted
on
an
approved
proposition
26,
which
specifically
defined
what
constitutes
a
tax.
The
proposition
defined
attacks
as
any
Levy
charge
or
exaction
of
any
kind
imposed
by
a
local
government
that
doesn't
meet
one
of
seven
specific
exceptions
set
forth
in
proposition
26,
whereas
a
fee,
on
the
other
hand,
is
charged
to
an
individual
or
group
that
actually
receives
a
private
benefit
from
the
service
that
is
provided.
AA
I
always
like
to
give
the
example
of
the
city's
Library
as
it's
a
straightforward
way
of
understanding
the
distinction
between
taxes
and
fees.
The
library
itself
provides
a
public
service
users
receive
a
public
benefit
that
library
is
funded
by
property
taxes
that
are
charged
to
all
residents
in
the
city,
whether
they
utilize
the
library
or
not.
They
are
paying
a
tax
to
provide
our
library,
but
on
a
private
benefit.
AA
AA
Taxes
can
only
be
approved
by
a
majority
vote
of
the
people
either
a
simple
majority.
If
it's
for
a
general
purpose
use
or
for
a
two-thirds
majority,
if
it's
a
special
tax,
however,
fees
can
be
approved
by
a
vote
of
the
city
council
via
a
public
hearing.
So
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
it's
so
important
to
have
the
distinction
between
what
classifies
attacks
and
what
is
a
fee,
because
how
that
tax
or
fee
is
approved
is
different.
AA
As
mentioned,
there
are
seven
specific
exceptions
that
are
listed
in
proposition
proposition,
26
to
a
charge
being
classified
as
a
tax
and
I'll
go
through
each
one.
Of
these.
The
first
exception
is
a
specific
benefit
or
privilege.
An
example
of
that
is
a
fee
that
is
charged
for
a
restricted
parking
permit,
such
as
for
residents
that
live
in
an
area
with
parking
by
permit
only.
AA
AA
AA
The
six
is
developer
charges
which
are
charges
imposed
as
a
condition
of
development.
Many
of
our
building
and
planning
fees
follow,
under
this
exception,
and
the
last
is
the
benefit,
assessments
and
property
related
charges
which
are
governed
by
proposition
218..
It
includes
our
lighting
or
in
Wastewater
utility
rates.
AA
There
are
several
common
fee
Concepts
that
guide
the
development
of
our
user
fees.
We
just
discussed
it
has
to
meet
one
of
these
seven
exceptions.
There
are
some
other
items
as
well,
though.
A
fee
must
also
be
based
on
the
cost
to
provide
that
service.
As
a
government
agency,
we
can
only
legally
charge
the
user
what
it
costs
us
to
provide
that
service,
excluding
things
like
fines
or
penalties,
the
FEMA
specifically
benefit
those
who
pay
that
charge.
The
feem
is
not
unintentionally,
be
subsidized,
which
is
insured
by
performing
cost
of
services
studies.
AA
It
must
be
reasonable.
We
often
Benchmark
our
fees
against
other
agencies,
although
I
would
add
a
caveat
that
it
can
be
very
difficult
to
do
that,
as
fees
really
vary
widely
between
agencies,
you
may
have
a
city
that
charges
certain
fees
by
evaluation
and
another
agency
charges
by
square
footage.
You
may
have
fees
that
do
it
based
on
a
deposit
based
and
another
city
may
do
it
on
a
fixed
fee.
AA
AA
Good
practice
is
to
periodically
perform
a
comprehensive
cost
of
services
study
in
order
to
ensure
that
our
fees
are
based
on
the
cost
of
service
and
not
unintentionally,
subsidized
the
city
completed
a
cost
of
services.
Study
last
go
around
two
years
ago
in
fiscal
year,
2020
2021
for
CDD
planning
and
Code
Compliance
fees,
as
well
as
our
Public
Works
engineering
fees.
During
the
next
user
fee
cycle
in
fiscal
year,
2024-25,
we
plan
on
performing
a
comprehensive
cost
of
services
study
for
cvd
building
and
safety
fees.
AA
The
city
has
a
full
cost
recovery
policy
when
it
comes
to
setting
our
fees
based
on
our
commitment
to
fiscal
sustainability.
Our
goal
is
for
the
fee
Revenue
to
cover
the
cost
of
Staff,
providing
the
service
to
the
user,
so
it
is
not
subsidized
by
our
general
tax
revenue
or
by
our
taxpayers.
When
a
fee
is
set
under
full
cost
recovery.
That
means
our
taxpayers
are
subsidizing.
The
private
benefit
that
a
user
receives.
AA
AA
Pw25,
the
appeal
of
traffic
and
Transportation
Commission
decision
to
city
council
is
also
a
decrease,
just
like
the
other
fee
to
be
consistent
with
the
fee
that
you
see
listed
above,
and
then
we
are
adding
one
new
fee
in
pw25.
It's
an
appeal
of
an
administrative
decision
to
city
council.
We
had
an
appeal
of
administration
and
administrative
decisions
to
traffic
and
transfer
to
Transportation
Commission,
and
we
had
an
appeal
of
traffic
and
Transportation
Commission
decision
to
city
council,
but
dude.
AA
We
didn't
have
one
directly
from
our
administrative
decision
directly
to
city
council,
so
we
are
adding
that
fee.
We
had
initially
proposed
it
at
four
hundred
dollars.
For
that
appeal
and
in
meeting
with
our
finance
audit
committee
last
week,
they
actually
recommended
that
we
set
that
fee
at
250
instead,
so
you
can
see
that
revision,
it's
not
in
our
proposed
user
fees,
but
we
would
upon
council's
approval
tonight
include
that
in
our
public
hearing
and
our
final
fees.
AA
Our
proposed
user
fee
manual
is
comprised
of
development
and
non-development
fees.
These
fees
cover
services
from
the
majority
of
our
departments.
It
covers
various
building,
permit
fees,
rental
of
City
facilities
fees.
We
have
developer
charges
that
are
also
included,
which
is
our
development
impact
fees,
and
that
is
governed
by
ab1600.
We
have
it
fines
and
penalties.
We
have
rates
and
charges
for
water
and
wastewater
utilities
and
then
our
assessments
for
our
lighting
and
Landscaping
districts.
AA
In
order
to
keep
up
with
the
rising
costs
of
service,
an
inflationary
factor
is
being
used
to
increase
certain
fees.
The
city's
standard
for
CPI
is
the
Los
Angeles
Long
Beach,
Anaheim
CPI
for
all
items,
and
since
we
update
user
fees
every
two
years,
we
look
at
a
two-year
CPI.
So
for
this
time
period
it
was
from
December
2020
until
December
2022,
which
was
11.82
percent
for
our
traffic
impact
fees,
which
is
our
developer
impact
fees.
AA
That
resolution
establishing
our
traffic
impact
fees
set
the
increase
at
the
CCI
for
Los
Angeles,
so
the
December
2020
through
December
2022
CCI
for
Los
Angeles,
was
23.92
percent.
Our
traffic
impact
fees
are
paid
by
developers
to
pay
for
their
share
of
infrastructure
projects
that
the
city
has
to
do
to
service.
The
additional
traffic
to
due
to
developments
staff
has
felt
that
the
impacts
of
inflation
in
bids
that
we
are
receiving
for
construction
projects
and
and
if
we
we
have
seen
those
bids
come
in
much
higher
due
to
inflation.
AA
So,
although
23.92
does
seem
like
a
pretty
significant
increase,
we
are
seeing
that
in
our
construction
projects
in
the
biz
that
we
were
receiving,
and
we
feel
that
if
we
are
not
increasing
it,
based
on
how
the
resolution
stipulates
that
we
should
be
doing
it,
that
a
greater
share
of
the
project
costs
will
be
borne
by
our
taxpayers.
Instead
of
by
those
that
are
developing
the
projects.
AA
Our
proposed
manual
is
broken
out
into.
Do
two
different
sections:
the
first
section
includes
a
feed
detail
sheet
for
each
user
fee.
The
fee
detail
sheet
includes
such
as
information
as
the
fee
title,
the
department,
the
fee
structure,
the
specific
proposition
26
exception.
Our
second
section
of
the
manual
includes
the
comparison
of
our
current
fees,
with
our
proposed
fees
for
the
next
two
years,
foreign
so
going
into
each
department
and
their
fees
are.
We
currently
have
49
development,
related
fees
and
Public
Works.
AA
We
are
proposing
two
new
fees,
an
encroachment
permit
fee
for
utility
companies
and
a
FEMA
floodplain
permit
fee.
There
are
32
fees
that
we
are
recommending
to
increase
by
CPI
in
order
to
get
closer
to
full
cost
recovery.
Two
fees
are
recommended
to
be
decreased
in
order
for
consistency
with
similar
fee
and
to
convert
to
a
fixed
fee.
AA
AA
Fees
that
are
I
would
add
that
fees
that
are
deposit
based
and
time
and
materials
based
are
not
recommended
to
be
increased
by
CPI,
as
the
user
will
ultimately
be
billed
the
cost
of
that
service,
foreign
CDD
building
and
safety.
There
are
27
currents,
fees
and
we
are
recommending
16,
be
increased
by
CPI
again
to
get
closer
to
full
cost
recovery,
and
then
11
fees
are
not
proposed
to
be
changed
due
to
them
being
deposit
basis
or
type
of
materials,
or
they
may
be
set
by
a
County
of
Ventura.
AA
On
the
non-development
side
of
our
Public
Works
user
fees,
one
fee
was
eliminated,
the
EV
charging
fee,
seven
fees
were
adjusted
by
CPI
to
get
closer
to
full
cost
recovery
and
the
tot
bus
fare.
Adult
unlimited
Ride,
Pass
sub
fee
was
decreased
slightly
for
CD
planning
and
Code
Compliance
non-development
fees.
Three
fees
were
adjusted
by
CPI
to
get
closer
to
full
cost
recovery.
AA
For
cultural
Affairs
Department,
we
have
47
current
fees,
we
are
proposing
adding
three
fees
of
VIP
event:
Creations
fee,
a
box
office
agent,
Services
fee
and
an
e-blast
Services
fee,
and
then
we
are
recommending
that
eight
fees
in
cultural
Affairs
be
recommended
to
increase,
and
this
is
because
those
fees
have
had
several
years
of
no
change,
some
of
them
over
15
years,
without
being
increased
at
all.
So
we
felt
that
it
was
prudent
at
this
time
to
recommend
increases
in
aid
of
their
fees.
AA
In
the
finance
department,
we
added
one
new
fee:
the
tephra
hearing
fee
for
outside
entities
at
their
request.
A
fee
had
never
been
established
to
charge
for
this
service,
and
so
that
we
felt
since
staff
was
doing
work
and
bringing
their
requested
tougher
hearing
to
city
council
and
holding
that
hearing
that
we
should
be
charging
a
fee
for
that.
Four
fees
were
increased
due
to
service
level.
Changes
such
as
different
differentiating
on
the
business
license
administrative
fee
between
doing
an
online
submittal
versus
a
paper
submittal.
AA
The
paper
submittal
is
much
more
staff
and
labor
intensive,
because
we
have
to
manually
input
all
that
information
on
the
business
license.
First
doing
it
online
with
our
new
software
takes
the
staff
a
lot
less
time
to
process,
so
that
online
fee
is
actually
less
than
us.
Preparing
a
manual
update
to
the
license
for
police
fees.
AA
For
our
city-wide
fees,
one
new
fee
was
added
a
city
facility
rental
at
various
city-owned
locations.
We
are
proposing
to
delete
the
Cameron
Center
facility
rental
fee,
because
that
is
now
being
leased
out
by
Costco,
and
then
we
are
recommending
one
fee
to
be
increased
our
facility
rental
for
MSC
in
order
to
maintain
consistency
with
other
City
facility
rentals.
AA
AA
So
on
to
our
development
impact
fees.
These
fees
are
governed
by
the
mitigation
fee,
act,
AB
1600
and
are
charged
to
new
development
to
pay
for
the
required
Capital
Improvement
infrastructure
costs
that
arise
from
development
projects.
These
include
Road
and
traffic
fees,
Water
and
Wastewater,
Plant,
Improvement
connection
fees
and
a
facility
fee
per
ab1600.
The
city
annually,
reports
to
city
council,
the
revenue
and
expenditures
associated
with
these
development
impact
fees.
AA
If,
for
some
reason,
the
city
did
not
utilize
the
fees
collected
for
an
infrastructure
Improvement
project,
the
fee
would
be
required
to
be
returned
back
to
the
developer.
Public
Works
completed
the
traffic
to
impact
fee
study
in
April
of
2019..
The
road
and
traffic
fees
will
be
increased
by
resolution
by
the
construction
cost
index.
AA
Like
I
mentioned
our
Water
and
Wastewater
Plant
Improvement
and
connection
fees
were
adopted
by
City
Council
in
October
2020,
so
those
fees
are
not
being
adjusted
at
this
time,
but
we
will
be
coming
back
to
Council
in
the
fall
with
any
proposed
adjustment
to
those
in
our
water
and
wastewater
rates,
and
the
police
facilities
is
being
adjusted
by
1.47
percent
and
that
is
per
resolution
in
our
place.
Facilities
fee.
AA
AA
AA
So,
for
tonight's
recommendations
are
to
receive
the
information
on
our
user
fees
and
our
development.
In
fact,
impact
fees
provide
direction
to
staff,
and
we
would
also
schedule
a
public
hearing
for
April
25th
2023
to
establish
our
user
fees
and
our
development
impact
fees.
That
would
be
effective,
July,
1st
2023
and
in
the
staff
report.
We
also
have
the
sequa
recommendation
as
well.
It's
just
not
on
the
slide.
AA
B
AA
Right
so
for
that
one,
our
Revenue
operations
manager
works
with
our
staff,
who
are
actually
processing
our
business
license,
applications
and
assessing.
How
long
does
it
take
them
to
process
a
paper
application
which
again
I
mentioned
they
have
to
physically
enter
in
all
of
that
information
into
the
software
versus
how
much
time
does
it
take
to
process
the
online
application
where
all
the
information
is
already
entered
in
by
the
business
owner?
B
B
Feel
free
to
step
up.
You
have
three
minutes.
P
P
So
you
will
probably
recall
that
I
spoke
at
the
last
meeting
about
crossing
guards
and
the
fee
for
appealing
a
staff
decision.
An
administrative
decision
on
crossing
guards
will
now,
if
I
understand
what
was
said
since
it
wasn't
in
the
report,
will
be
250
dollars.
P
250
dollars
is
not
free
or
near
free.
So
first
point
second
Point
is
that
the
I
think
there's
a
ticking
clock
in
the
policy
as
well
that
a
group
or
individual
who's
concerned
about
this
decision
has
a
very
limited
time
in
order
to
make
this
appeal,
so
they
have
to
recognize
that
they
have
the
right
to
appeal.
They
have
to
have
the
money
to
appeal
and
they
have
to
be
organized
in
time
in
order
to
appeal
the
decision
to
you.
P
P
Is
that
one
fee
or
is
it
250
dollars
for
each
school
that
is
losing
a
crossing
guard
and
then
the
last
thing
that
I
want
to
say
I
want
to
use
Weathersfield
Elementary
as
an
example,
it's
one
of
the
schools
that
if
the
numbers
stay
the
same
as
they
were
last
year,
will
lose
their
crossing
guard
in
two
years
when
the
new
policy
is
implemented.
Well,
they
have
well
over
a
hundred
kids
crossing
that
intersection
every
morning
and
every
afternoon
what
they
don't
have
is
over
300
cars.
P
So
I
don't
know
how
you
feel
about
child
vehicle
conflicts
as
they
call
them
in
the
business.
But
a
hundred,
kids
and
200
Cars
is
kind
of
a
scary
idea
to
me
that
we
don't
need
a
crossing
guard
there.
So
I
would
like
to
appeal
that
so
now,
I
have
to
pay
250
dollars
and
I
have
a
ticking
clock.
I
think
this
is
a
mistake.
It
should
be
free
or
near
free,
Mr,
Adam,
Ms.
AA
I
just
wanted
to
add
that
we
did
calculate
what
we
estimated
staff
time
was
to
process
that
appeal.
It
was
significantly
more
than
even
the
400
that
staff
proposed
setting
the
Fiat
and
after
a
lot
of
discussion
at
our
finance
audit
committee,
we
did
come
to
a
decision
on
proposing
that
we
reduced
that
to
250
dollars.
It's
still
well
under
what
it
does
cost
staff
time.
As
for
any
questions
on
the
policy,
that's
that's
not
able
to
be
discussed.
B
AA
R
About
a
thousand
okay
and
when
we
discussed
this
in
the
Finance
audit
committee,
we
had
it
at
four
and
Bob
and
I
said
well.
Let's
we
need
to
drop
that
and
we
concurred
with
the
250.
I
might
have
been
a
little
overly
optimistic
Betsy.
You
know
in
the
in
the
hearing-
and
it
just
seems
to
me
that
250
is
25
of
what
what
it's
going
to
cost
us.
R
So
we
did
drop
it
from
what
the
staff
recommended,
but
I
guess
the
free
or
no
or
close
to
free
can't
quite
get
there.
But
it's
a
significant
discount,
very
significant.
Any.
U
U
Didn't
have
any
questions
this.
This
is
the
comment
period
now
so
I'll
like
to
make
a
comment
I'm
incredibly
grateful
to
what
great
staff
we
have
and
how
fiscally
responsible
they
are
in
managing
our
fees.
This
is
not
an
operation
to
make
money.
It's
it's
to
recover
actual
costs
that
we
incur,
and
we
do
a
very
good
job
of
that
and
we're
being
very
fiscally
prudent
and
I.
Don't
really
see
any
problems
at
all,
I
think
a
very
thorough
report
and
I
appreciate
your
explaining
it
to
us.
U
However,
you
knew
you
knew
that
was
coming
as
I
made
clear
at
the
crossing
guard
hearing
I
think
the
proper
purview
for
that
decision
is
here
not
at
staff.
U
I,
don't
like
that
250
fee
I,
don't
think
there
should
be
an
appeal
in
the
first
place,
so
I'm
I'm
unable
to
support
this,
but
I
want
to
make
clear
that
the
rest
of
the
fees,
the
way
you're
thinking
about
this,
the
work
that
you're
doing
to
look
after
our
finances
I'm
fully
in
support
of
that.
Thank
you.
Mr
Mayor.
R
Wonder
if
I
may,
thank
you
mayor,
well,
fear
no
fee
going
to
relive
the
crossword
business,
but
the
real
issue
here
is:
we
have
two
years
before
anything
gets
reviewed
and
if
we
get
our
student
numbers
up
like
I'm
hoping
we
will,
because
the
school
district
and
the
police
department
and
the
city
are
all
going
to
supposedly
work
towards
that
goal,
no
one
will
have
to
appeal
anything.
That's
the
real
answer
to
this.
We
need
to
get
the
numbers
up.
C
U
B
B
N
Thanks
mayor
back
of
me,
our
next
meeting,
just
as
a
reminder,
will
not
be
until
the
April,
the
4th
Tuesday
April,
the
4th,
as
some
of
three
of
our
colleagues
on
the
diocese,
will
be
heading
for
Washington
DC
for
the
annual
lobbying
effort
and
the
national
league
of
cities
conference
at
the
meeting
on
the
fourth
currently
slated
for
a
couple
special
presentations,
a
development
hearing
that
was
recently
taken
up
by
the
Planning
Commission,
which
is
the
Chappelle
Arroyo,
Apartments
extension
repeat,
another
public
hearing
on
a
repeal
residential
resale,
Municipal,
Code
Amendment
and
a
study
session
on
our
Capital
Improvement
project
budget.