►
Description
CNCF SIG Contributor Strategy Contributor Growth WG 2021-02-16
A
Hey
there
hey
there,
so
I
don't
know
if
there
was
anything
planned
for
this
call,
because
I
just
got
my
power
back
on
this
morning.
Oh
so
I
was
gonna
say,
I'm
surprised
you're
on
the
call
yeah.
Well
I
just
I
saw
that
catherine
couldn't
make
it,
and
so
I
was
caroline
couldn't
make
it
so
I
thought
I
should
dial
in
just
in
case
the.
C
C
C
A
The
so
yeah,
so
I
don't
even
looked
at
the
agenda
if
any.
C
I
think
I
have
only
maybe
something
regarding
the
framework
next
steps,
so
I'm
just
gonna
add
here:
let's
do
it
right.
C
Yes,
so
I've
been
working
on,
I
don't
know
if
it's
the
right
word,
but
I've
been
calling
it
the
contributor
growth
framework,
kind
of
a
high
level
framework
of
what
to
think
of.
If
you
want
to
grow
your
contributor
base,
be
it
code,
contributors
or
non-con
contributors,
and
so
I
interviewed
a
few
people.
C
Scott
from
microsoft
came
on
the
call
and
he
wanted
to
help.
So
he
interviewed
someone
as
well
and
we're
gonna
actually
meet
right
after
this
call.
So
I
think
this
is
ready
to
go
on
github
yeah
and
then
get
feedback
kind
of
stuff.
So
that's
basically
where
we
are
at-
and
I
can
add
maybe
I'll
just
add
this.
C
B
Do
you
know
if
these
are
like
the
seems
to
get
approved
by
our
yes,
our
toc
chair
people
like
so
like
for
the
templates?
I
think
paris
was
going
to
our
chair
or
our
tsu
rep
to
like
get
the
documents
approved?
Do
we
need
to
do?
No,
I
thought
you.
C
Kind
of
submitted,
and
then
they
go,
the
approval
goes
through
there,
but
so
they
would
approve
the
work
doc
because
I
know
that
nothing
goes
through
approval.
Nothing
is
published,
but
I
thought,
like
you
kind
of
submitted
and
then
so.
What's
the
process,
because
I
I
thought
when
we
were
talking
with
carolyn,
it
was
like:
okay,
just
get
it
on
github
I
was
like
okay.
A
C
C
I
just
learned
how
the
basics
of
github
last
week
I
was.
I
had
no
idea
how
to
read
so
one
of
the
reasons
I
had
no
idea
when
I
joined
this
group,
because
I
did
not
know
how
to
read
that
page
and
where
to
find
what
because
it
all
has
like
the
contributors
like.
Oh
my
god,
that's
why
I
like
that's.
Why?
No
one
told
me
because
the
information
is
here
so
yeah.
I
just
had
these
aha
moment
right
now
and
I
was
trying
to
find
it
and
then
I
went.
C
I
couldn't
find
it
and
then
I
went
through
your
draft
thing.
So
I
think
that's
where
it
should
live
right,
so
those
are
kind
of
the
little
questions
that
I
have.
So
I
would
just
create
a
new
file
and
that
will
create
a
folder
right
because
it's
like
it's
actually
I'll,
create
a
new
file
right
in
the
drafts.
Folder,
oh
okay,
because
I
think
right
now
let
me
see
you're
the
only
one:
it's
draft,
oh
yeah,
yeah,
yeah
yeah.
Now
I
see
it
okay,
this
is
experimentation
for
me.
C
Learning,
while
doing
I
know
it's
not
difficult,
but
it's
the
first
time
it's
kind
of
different
yeah,
so
the
process
would
be
adding
it
in
there
submitting
it
submitting
the
pr
and
then
someone
would
review
and
see
like.
If
this
is
something
shareable,
I
guess
and
then
once
it
is
or
is
the
draft
always
a
draft.
B
I
think
the
plan
was
to
put
it
in
drafts
so,
like
the
rest
of
the
people
in
this
state
can
take
a
look
at
it.
I
think
a
lot
of
times.
People
just
do
like
lazy
consensus
and
say,
like
hey,
like
you
know
like
look
at
this
by
you,
know
the
25th
and
like
if
there
aren't
any
other
comments
like
I'm
gonna,
move
forward
with
it
and
then
from
there.
I'm
not
sure
I
don't.
I
think
if
at
that
point
you
feel
like
it's
good
to
go
and
like
get
approval.
C
Okay,
well,
I
think,
like
the
first
step
is
just
to
get
it
on
here
and
then
I
think
it's
it's
by
then
we'll
probably
well.
I
can
ping
people
like
or
paris
ask
her
what
like
once
it's
there,
but
I
guess
like
it
would
be
like
let's
wait
until
two
weeks
and
then
see
what
we
do
once
it's
in
there
and
because
I
think
like
maybe
I
can
get
some
feedback
from
other
people
that
we
already
know
before
yeah
and
then
we
discuss
in
our
next
meeting.
B
Yeah
because
I
like
went
through
this
and
then
right
like
then
like
josh,
felt
like
there
were
other
things
to
add,
and
so
we
kind
of
have
we're
still
working
on
ours
and
we
haven't
gone
back
to
paris
to
get
it
approved
yeah.
So
there
may
or
may
not
be
like
more
iterations
to
come,
but
you
want
to
start
putting
it
yeah.
Oh
yeah,
I'm.
C
B
Yeah,
I
would
drop
a
note
to
the
file
like
the
github
link
in
the
slack
channel
when
you
post
it.
Okay.
B
So
I
took
another
look
at
the
contributor
ladder
template
and
I
think
the
only
thing-
that's
kind
of
glaring
for
me
right
now.
It's
just
the
difference
or
like
how
we
want
to
describe
a
reviewer
versus
approver
right
now
I
added
I
mean
I
just
kind
of
put
like
a
reviewer
reviews,
pull
requests
before
they
get
merged
by
approvers.
B
I'm
not
totally
well
versed
in
the
specifics
of
the
different
roles.
So
josh
is
that
something
you
could
look
over.
B
But
I
don't
know
for
missing
anything
else.
A
B
A
A
A
B
A
Oh,
like
for
reviewer,
for
example,
the
so
saying
how
is
this
different
from
you
know,
clarifying
with
both
review
and
approver
how
the
two
are
different
from
each
other
four
organizations
that
can
use
both
and
also
probably
with
a
comment
I'll
add
this
with
a
comment
saying
a
lot
of
organizations:
don't
use
both
a
lot
of
organizations
just
use,
approver
or
just
use,
reviewer
and
and
owner
sub
project.
B
A
A
A
A
Well
leads
are
often
approvers.
If
you
follow
me
and
you
can
be
an
approver
without
being
a
lead,
but
you
can,
you
know
the,
but
most
leads
are
going
to
be
approvers.
C
B
B
Well
because
so
I
asked
the
question
about
the
lead
portion
being
or
like
because,
like
you
have
the
subproject
lead
section
as
well,.
A
The
well
some
project
leads,
so
some
project
leads
are
for
projects
that
are
actually
divided
out
into
sub
projects.
Sure
like,
for
example,
with
I
network
tools
or
what
is
it
called
network
network,
something
working
group.
A
I
don't
remember
anyway,
they're
a
weird
project
where
they
have
these
individual
tools
and
individual
tools,
each
have
their
own
maintainers,
so
subproject
lead
subproject
maintainer
would
also
be
a
name
that
we
could
use
if
we,
if
that
was
clearer
to
people
so
so
like
for
all
these
things
for
approver
sub
project,
maintainer
maintainer,
it's
all
these
are
all
ownership
permissions.
It
just
varies
what
the
scope
of
their
ownership
permissions
are
and
then
also
with
anybody.
B
So
so
does
it
make
sense
to
just
tuck
those
into
the
other
existing
titles
right
now,
as
opposed
to
having
their
own
categories.
A
You
know,
because
for
a
lot
of
projects,
I'm
dealing
with
approver
and
maintainer
are
the
same
thing.
There
are
no
sub
projects,
you
know,
there's
only
one
sort
of
level
right
I
mean
those
projects
generally.
Have
they
have
a
contributor?
You
know
org
member,
and
they
have
you
know
approver,
slash,
maintainer
and
that's
all
they
have
that's
going
to
be
true
for
a
lot
of
projects.
B
A
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
guess
the
difference
is
for
those,
and
actually
this
is
just
a
matter
of
filling
it
out
right
is
that.
A
Because
we
have,
we
have
sort
of
sub
project
owner
more
filled
out,
but
that's
just
because
we
have
it
more
filled
out,
it's
not
and
actually
no,
we
don't
have
it
more
filled
out
because
it
still
has
a
bunch
of
stuff
in
it
that
doesn't
belong
there.
So
a
lot
of
that
stuff,
that's
in
it,
belongs
under
a
maintainer.
A
A
A
I
moved
all
the
handling
cncf
relations
et
cetera
because
that
all
belongs
to
maintainer
or
whatever
the
senior
most
position
is
got
it.
Okay,
the
and
I'll
need
to
block
that
out,
because
in
some
projects
where
they
have
a
steering
committee,
all
the
cncf
relationships
go
to
the
steering
committee
and
which
has
some
substantial
overlap
with
who
the
maintainers
are.
But
it's
not
the
same
body,
so
the
I
knew
it
was
going
to
be
complicated
to
do
this
sort
of
generic
grab
bag
of
rolls.
A
A
Where
we
have
contributor
slash,
org
member
has
the
same
role,
reviewer
and
then
maintainer
slash
approver.
So
basically,
three
levels
like.
A
B
A
The
because.
A
Because
this
is
otherwise
going
to
be
a
little
bit
terrifying,
the
because
even
kubernetes
doesn't
use
all
of
these
levels.
A
A
A
A
B
A
A
A
A
I'm
kind
of
thinking
that's
going
to
be
better
than
giving
a
super
simple
example,
and
we
might
want
to
give
a
super
simple
example
also,
but
if
you
look
at
what's
above
that
maintainer
line,
it's
not
very
complicated.
What's
above,
that,
maintainer
line
is
not
very
complicated.
It's
one,
two
three,
it's
four
roles
with
some
notes,
saying
that
you
know
you
might
not
have
this
role
if.
A
I
don't
know
about
that
because
it
doesn't
correspond
to
what
we
have
it's
like.
The
network.
Working
group
is
a
sandbox
project
and
they
have
sub-project
leads
sure.
Whereas
xcd
has
is
a
graduated
project
and
they
have
a
two-level
contributor
ladder.
Okay,
right,
you're,
a
contributor
or
you're
a
maintainer,
and
that's
pretty
much.
It.
B
A
A
A
People
often
don't
recognize
who
their
participants
are
good
or
bad,
though
it's
not
necessarily
a
good
thing.
The,
but
I
mean,
aren't
you
know.
The
only
thing
you
have
to
do
to
become
a
participant
is
to
make
a
post
on
a
mailing
list.
You
know
or
a
slack
form
or
whatever
somewhere
right,
the
and
so
that's
why
people
don't
often
think
of
those.
As
a
group,
it's
helpful
that
people
think
of
them
right,
because
people
are
saying
how
do
we
get
contributors?
A
And
you
say:
okay
well,
who
do
you
have
participating
in
your
community
forums?
Yeah
right,
that's
your
first
pool
to
draw
from,
but
people
often
do
not
call
that
out
as
a
specific
role
in
their
contributor
ladder.
B
I
guess
I
so
I
feel
slightly
inclined
to
include
it
just
because
it's
kind
of
like
this,
like
the
baseline,
I
guess
or
like
the
starting
point
before
you
become
a
contributor
where,
if
someone
were
to
come
upon
a
ladder
right
and
they're
like
oh
wait
like
hey
community
participant,
that's
me
and
then
I
guess
I
don't
know
you
you
sure
are
hanging
out
like
I
feel
like.
If
they
like
self-identify
with
something,
then
they
can
start
seeing
themselves,
move
up
it
yeah,
as
opposed
to
just
seeing
like
contributor.
A
A
They
just
go
kind
of
straight
to
approver
yeah,
if
you're,
not
a
general
contributor,
I'm
if
you're,
not
an
organ.
If
you
go
above
organization
member,
ultimately
some
of
them
lump
reviewer
in
with
organization
member
that
is
organization,
members
have
reviewing
rights,
so
the
and
and
just
making
it
clear
that
that's
sort
of
in
there
I
mean
in
kubernetes.
A
We
have
those
as
separate
levels
because
of
prowl
largely
and
projects
that
use
prow
tend
to
have
those
a
separate
levels,
because
it's
built
into
how
prowl
works,
but
but
most
other
projects,
don't
so
yeah.
So
then
we
would
have
five
levels
of
which
one
is
optional
for
a
sort
of
basic
file.
And
then
we
have
a
big
thing,
saying
hey.
A
B
Yeah,
I
think
so:
okay,
let's
try
and
understand
the
like
order
in
which
one
to
read
the
section
under
the
maintainer
roles.
So
right
now
it
says
approver
dash
maintainer
and
then
you
go
into
we'll
explain
right.
A
A
You
are
now
a
maintainer
of
the
project
in
general.
Right,
that's
the
one
level
they
have
right
and
we
put
a
big
note
there
saying
hey.
This
is
how
a
lot
of
simple
projects
get
simple
in
terms
of
code
base
projects.
Do
it
if
your
project
is
structurally
more
complicated
than
this.
B
A
I
kind
of
feel
like
having
two
files
is
a
bit
more
readable
just
because,
among
other
things,
the
second
file
is
a
little
bit
different
because
with
the
maintainer
types,
we're
saying:
hey,
here's
like
eight
different
maintainer
types
yeah,
and
not
only
are
you
not
going
to
use
all
of
them?
You
in
fact
can't
use
all
of
them
because
some
of
them
contradict
each
other.
B
A
A
A
C
C
C
C
I
really
like
the
idea
of
breaking
it
up
by
the
way,
because
I
think
it
it
gets
overwhelming,
especially
for
small
projects
if
they
and
probably
most
people
using
this
they're
small
and
then
they
will
grow,
and
it
will
be
like
very
so,
I
think
like
making
it
really
kind
of
the
bare
but
like
this
is
like
the
simple
version
and
then
hey
you're,
more
advanced.
I
think
that's
a
really
good
move-
or
here
are
more.
You
know
like
more
for
more
mature
projects
or
bigger
projects
or
whatever.
C
C
No,
I
do
think
you
need
like,
I
think
it
makes
sense
to
have
them
all
yeah,
also
for
smaller
projects
to
understand,
like
all
these
are
the
role,
and
it
makes
sense
to
understand
how
bigger
projects
work
or
even
if
they
don't
need
it
yet,
because
that's
maybe
where
they
get
at
some
point,
or
so.
I
think
it
does
make
sense
to
have
a
complete
letter
for.
B
B
Yeah
I'll
go
ahead
and
clean
this
up
and
I'll
send
this
over.
Hopefully
this
afternoon,.
C
I
have
a
quick
question,
so
I've
been
slacking
charles
a
little
bit
because
I
was
like
looking
at
starting
to
add
like
the
first
thing
into
github
and
because
it's
so
long,
I
wanted
to
have
like
the
introduction
and
then
like
the
different
sections
with
a
little
summary
and
then
linking
to
a
different
page,
because
it's
just
too
long.
You
know,
and
you
may
be
interested
again-
it's
overwhelming
right,
so
you
may
just
read
the
section
that
you're
interested
in.
C
So
what
is
the
best
thing
because,
like
charles
was
saying,
there
is
no
way
of
doing
sub
pages.
So
should
I
create
a
folder
in
the
dr
in
the
draft
folder.
B
C
It
would,
I
just
feel
sometimes,
if
it's
so
long
and
it's
ever
ending
the
never-ending
scroll
yeah,
I
think
that's
kind
of
overwhelming.
C
A
I
yeah
I
mean
if
this
is
going
to
go
on
the
contribute
website.
Eventually,
I
think
it
would
be
better
to
actually
have
sort
of
chapter
pages.
A
If
you
follow
me,
is
to
divide
this
up
into
sections
and
have
each
section
be
a
separate
linked,
page
yeah
yeah.
It
makes
it
easier
for
people
to
digest
and
it's
really
a
lot
better
if
people
are
going
to
refer
to
it
right.
If
somebody's
going
to
say,
oh
hey,
the
contributor
framework
had
something
about
this:
here's
the
link
to
the
pr
workflow
portion,
yeah
and-
and
while
you
can
do
that,
based
on
header
tags,
it's
more
trouble
for
people
to
find
the
header
tags.
Yeah.
C
So
that's
what
I
was
trying
to
do,
but
I
don't
know
how
to
do
it
in
github,
because
charles
was
saying
you
cannot
create
subpages.
C
Because,
like
you,
you
have
like
the
main
overview
right
and
then
you
have
the
different.
So
it's
like
on
on
a
website.
It
would
be
the
link
and
then
yeah
one
page.
Let's.
A
C
A
What
what
are
we
using
for
hold
on?
Are
we
using
doxy?
Are
we
using
something
else?
That's
a
very
good
question.
Don't.
A
Web
framework
for
documentation-
I
don't
know
what
we're
doing
using
carolyn's,
not
here,
let
me
hold
on.
Let
me
take
a
look
at
it.
A
D
C
I'm
thinking
of
a
regular
website
too
right
which
is
but
so
basically
it
would
be
what
charles
was
suggesting.
I
create
a
folder
in
the
draft
folder
and
then
create
separate
files
and
then
link
to
those
pages,
and
so
one
is
the
main
one
and
then
the
other
ones
you
can
link
from
it.
Okay,.
A
We're
using
doxy,
okay
and
doxy
actually
does
have
a
way
to
make
directory
structure
reflect
in
in
sort
of
document
structure.
Okay,
the.
D
B
B
B
A
A
A
A
Yeah
right,
yeah,
yeah,
the
yes
there's
a
question
of
whether
you
have
to
manually
link
to
the
stuff
in
the
folders
or
whether
it
automatically
displays
a
table
of
contents,
because
nice
thing
is
with
a
regular
doxy.
Repo
is
that
I
can
actually
do
that
where
I
can
just
put
a
toc
tag
and
it'll
pick
up
all
of
the
documents
in
that
particular
folder
and
automatically
create
a
table
of
contents
for
them.
Yeah.
B
A
A
C
A
A
A
I
mean
one
of
those
that
I
think
I'm
going
to
have
to
tackle
as
a
to
do
is
really
looking
at
the
whole
more
seriously,
at
the
whole,
devising
metrics
to
figure
out
how
you're
doing
in
contributor
growth.
A
Is
that
in
devstance,
except
that
we
don't
have
a
good
mapping
of
here's
things
you
can
look
at
in
dev
stats?
I
see
and
there's
a
lot
of
reasons
why
we
don't
have
a
good
mapping
which
has
more
to
do
with
a
hey,
we're
really
having
trouble
defining
exactly
what
it
is.
We
want
to
know.
A
A
You
know-
and
I
devised
that
because
of
some
issues
we
had
in
kubernetes
and
said:
okay.
This
is
my
first
stab
at
this.
Somebody
give
me
some
feedback
on
one:
that's
working
for
you
silence,
so,
which
is
probably
a
no,
except
that
we
talked
about
taking
it
away
and
then
somebody's
like
no
I'm
using.
That
so
seems
to
be
the
only
way
I
find
out
if
anybody's,
using
metrics
as
you
discontinue
them,
you
find
out
who
yells
at
you.
A
A
Dawn
already
took
a
stab
at
a
short
list
in
one
of
the
other
documents
of
of
sort
of
things,
to
see
how
your
community
is
doing,
but
you
know
she
was
doing
it
based
on
hey
here's
kind
of
what
we
have
already,
not
a
hey,
here's
what
we
would
like
to
have,
because
we
we
have
the
ability
to
change.
What's
there
you
know
based
on
what
it
is.
We
think
projects
need.
A
Okay,
because
I
was
looking
there
in
chaos
and
I
realized
you
were
just
referring
to
the
chaos
stuff
for
community
for
building
a
community
rather
than
the
cast
stuff
for
their
monitoring.
A
I
it's
it's
unwieldy.
I
was
on
the
committee
and
I
dropped
out
because
I
was
looking
for
like
I'm
saying,
okay
well,
I've
already
worked
on
dev
stats.
I've
already
worked
on
grimoire
right.
I
know
all
the
stuff
I
can
pull.
What
I
want
is
the.
What
should
I
pull
that's?
What
I'm
interested
in
right
show
me
the
fewest
number
of
metrics
I
can
get
in
order
to
get
an
accurate
picture
of
what's
going
on
and
that
wasn't
the
direction
they
were
headed.
A
So
the
and
you
know
because
things
like
I
feel
like
we
got
a
few
of
those
one
of
the
ones
I'm
more
proud
of
in
dev
stats.
That
I
feel
is
underutilized
is
the
first
time
in
occasional
contributors
chart
because
I
feel,
like
you
know,
as
a
sort
of
end-to-end
test.
That
tells
you
a
lot
about
how
easy
it
is
to
contribute
to
your
project.
D
A
A
C
A
Next
time,
yeah
next
next
project,
the
also
the
cncf
pays
for
a
bunch
of
really
high
octane
arm
servers
to
run
all
the
devstat
stuff.
We
did
as
our
experiment
in
running
kubernetes
and
other
things
on
arm,
which
worked
really
surprisingly
well,.
C
So
I'm
not
familiar
with
any
of
those
tools
that
you
mentioned,
so
I
guess
we
should
add.
A
C
Here
so
charles,
can
you
then
help.
A
A
A
As
well
as
the
crms
the
and
so
then
let
me
put
that
down
right
below
that
section,
because
it's
weird
because
right
now
you
have
the
crms
and
then
you
suddenly
jump
back
to
a
non-software
issue.
A
A
C
Since
this
is
kind
of
like
really
high
or
a
really
high
overview
thing,
I
wanted
to
kind
of
link
to
the
different
other
resources
that
we
have.
So
it's
also
linked
to
the.
A
A
A
C
A
A
But
also
the
the
other
reason
to
divide
it
up
into
files
for
separate
chapters
like
we
were
saying
with
the
contributor
ladder
is
this
means
that
you
could
actually
start
publishing
the
chapters
that
are
done
sooner.
C
Yeah
yeah
and
I
feel
like
the
latter
chapters,
are
because
it
was
based
on
interviews
and
it
was
like.
People
were
like
very
giving
a
lot
of
information
at
the
beginning
and
at
the
end
of
the
interview
was
like.
Okay,
people
are
getting
tired.
I
was
like
oh,
I
should
have
like
flipped
it
around
for
some
and
just
start
with
the
last
question
so
yeah
they
probably
need
a
little
bit
more
work
as
it
goes.
It
gets
to
the
end.
A
C
A
A
Stuff
and
now
I'm
really
curious-
do
you
have
so
speaking
for
tuning
tracks
to
like
future
meetings
and
stuff
give
anybody
that
you
talk
to
with
this
crm
usage
thing
that
would
be
willing
to
like
do
something
at
a
contributor
strategy,
meeting
or
maintainer
circle,
or
something
because
I
have
not
actually
used
crms
ever
for
contributor
management,
and
now
I'm
really
curious
is
to
see
how
people
do
that.
D
Ahead,
there
are
two
that
we're
using
or
evaluating
one
is
called
orbit
and
the
other
is
called
savannah.
C
I
mean
I'm
sure
that
I
mean
you
want
to
have
a
contributor
talking
about
it
right
because
I
think
they're
relatively
new
and
one
of
the
things
that
I
did
is
like.
I
actually
contacted
the.
I
don't
know,
founders
whatever
and
was
like
hey
we're
writing
this
stuff.
Can
you
just
walk
me
through
it
like?
How
did
you
picture
it
like?
What?
How
how
do
you?
How
do
you
want
us
to
use
this
right
like
and
then,
and
they
could
do
that,
like
a
little?
C
I
don't
know
if
that
it's
a
vendor,
of
course,
showing
it,
but
if
you
have
like
maybe
two
two
competitors
who
get
like
because
it's
it's
actually
really
useful
and
they
have
a
lot
of
really
cool
things
and
I
think
a
lot
of
people
don't
know
it
just
because
it
is
relatively
new.
You
have
lots
of
sierra
here,
no,
your
rms
now
but
like
for
traditional,
you
know
like
sales
cycle
and
stuff
and
they
have
a
lot
of
kind
of
like
the
con
community
metrics
in
there,
which
are
kind
of
nice.
A
C
But
we're
not
using
it
efficiently
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
why
I
was
doing
the
framework,
and
so
we
really
want
to
kind
of
improve
the
efficiencies,
and
we
have
a
lot
of
tools
and
we
wanted
to
make
a
decision
and
kind
of.
We
have
also
a
new
team
member
who
is
going
to
be
looking
more
at
the
community
stuff,
and
so
at
some
point
we
will
know
more.
I
think
we've
been
using
it
a
little
bit
here
and
there,
but
not
like
really.
C
You
know
we
didn't,
since
we
didn't
commit
we're
using
several
things
at
the
same
time
and
I
think
we're
not
getting
the
best
out
of
it.
So
we
may
be
able
to
talk
to
one
of
them.
Maybe
in
two
months
or
so
right
I
mean:
do
you
fee
right,
charles,
because
I
don't
feel
like.
We
really
know
all
the
in
an
ins
and
out
yet
because
we
haven't
been
using
it
well.
A
Yeah,
so
what
I'd
see
is
you
could
actually
kind
of
do
a
back
to
back
right?
The
vendor
could
present
the
thing
and
then,
if
you
could
talk
about
how
you
were
using
some
pieces
of
it,
yeah
well,
it's
just
because
how
vendors
think
that
we
will
use
things
and
and
speaking
for
a
vendor,
how
vendors
think
that
people
will
use
things
and
how
people
actually
use
them
are
often
quite
different.
Yeah.
C
Well,
yeah,
I
I
I
wanted
to
know
is
like
what
was
his
vision
and
why
did
they
create
things?
Because?
Since
because
there
were
a
lot
of
things
we
weren't
using?
Probably
so
I
wanted
to
get
those
nuggets
and
then
like
if
it's
useful
and
if
we're
gonna
it's
a
different
thing,
but
yeah
that
was
kind
of
the
idea.
C
A
I
wouldn't
I
would
never
use
salesforce
to
manage
a
community.
I
know
people
have
tried
and
they
install
800
different
sales
force
extensions
in
order
to
try
to
make
it
work
and
they
still
end
up
doing
a
lot
of
stuff
outside
the
system.
A
B
A
C
But
if
you
want,
I
you
know
like
in
two
months
or
so
when
we
kind
of
have
learned
and
we
can
do
the
vendor
and
use
it
like
right
now,
I'm
not
sure
we're
ready
for
that,
but
I
do
and
that's
why
I
wanted
to
have
it
here,
because
I
I
mentioned
it
and
carlessia
was
like
what
there
are
crms
for
communities.
So
it's
like
okay,
a
lot
of
people
probably
don't
know
about
it.
C
B
Because
I
well
chrome
crashed
on
me
a
while
ago
and
I
lost
my
savannah
tab.
They
couldn't
remember
the
name,
but
now
that
you
brought
it
up.
I
remember
the
name,
so
I
was
gonna
look
into
that
and
then
I
was
also
looking
into
orbit
and
I
don't
know
like
the
the
founder
reached
out
to
me,
probably
because
I
work
at
microsoft
and
like
wanted
to
like
see
how
I
was
gonna
use
it.
B
So
I
don't
know
if
you've
already
talked
to
him,
but
I'm
happy
to
yeah,
like
I'm
happy
to
take
some
time
and
explore
these
two
tools,
because
I
was
gonna.
Do
that
already.
C
Yeah,
I
mean
like,
if
you
wanna,
if
you
think,
there's
more
to
add
as
well
like
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
wanted
to
kind
of
create
here
is
a
little
bit
best
practices,
what
how
to
use
crms
in
open
source
community
kind
of
setting-
and
I
think,
that's
kind
of
important,
because
right
now
I
think,
like
there
are
a
lot
of
things
you
remember
or
there's
not
a
lot
of
process
right
and
that's
kind
of
where
you
lose
a
lot
of
you
know
track
of
things
or
yeah,
so
I
think
like
basically
what
the
sales
people
are
doing
really
well.
C
Some
of
that
can
actually
be
translated
into
because
they've
been
doing
it
forever.
You
know
very
strategically
and
they
have
a
very
strong
incentive
right,
which
is
the
sales
and
the
commission.
So
they're
they've
really
mastered
a
lot
of
these
things,
but
I
think
a
lot
of
the
things
that
I've
mastered.
We
could
actually
use
to
better
manage
our
communities.
B
I
wonder
if
this
is
something
that
like
cncf
would
help
cover
for
cncf
projects
and
how
that
would
look
like
as
well.
If
these
things
have,
you
know,
substantial
costs.