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From YouTube: ADHD: Understanding, Awareness, And...- Bart Farrell, Heba elAyoty, Farrah Campbell, Rich Burroughs

Description

Don’t miss out! Join us at our upcoming event: KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2023 in Amsterdam, The Netherlands from April 17-21. Learn more at https://kubecon.io. The conference features presentations from developers and end users of Kubernetes, Prometheus, Envoy, and all of the other CNCF-hosted projects.

ADHD: Understanding, Awareness, And Shared Experience - Bart Farrell, Data on Kubernetes Community; Heba elAyoty, Microsoft; Farrah Campbell, Amazon Web Services; Rich Burroughs, Loft Labs

Speakers: Rich Burroughs, Bartholomew Farrell, Heba elAyoty, Farrah Campbell
The cloud-native has a welcoming, diverse and inclusive community. However, are we as a community aware and inclusive of neurodivergent people? Are we neurodiverse? Is our documentation, talks, processes, conferences, applications, interactions and resources in line and aware of neurodivergent needs as it is for the neurotypical? How can we recognize and support our neurodivergent people? What efforts, approaches, and awareness programs are accomplished by the cncf or the community to accommodate and extend such inclusivity and strengthen our neurodiversity? What community data do we have on mental disorders among us, our developers, advocates, and the rest of the community? Join us, neurodivergent people answering the above questions and sharing our experiences, journeys, concerns, and insights reflecting on the CNCF community ecosystem and how it can benefit from being more neurodiverse. Presenting tips and tricks on how ADHD might be recognized as early as possible for you, a member of your family or the community? Our contribution is how to continue the self-care journey and extend inclusivity to mental health disorders, starting with ADHD. Hopefully, this will encourage more, including specialists and professionals, to come forward and help.

A

We're here to talk about ADHD today um we are a group of folks who have ADHD um I want to point out just to set some context were um obviously not experts in ADHD. We are people, who've lived our own experiences, everybody's experiences with it are different and that can depend on even things like you know, coexisting conditions that you have and so we're just speaking for ourselves and our own experiences.

A

What we say may not apply to you as an individual um and uh just to get started if you're comfortable doing it raise your hand if you have ADHD or think you do or know someone who does all right a lot of a lot of folks I think that um probably more people know someone who does than think they do as well um yeah.

A

This is unrehearsed um we're just talking about our experiences, um we're going to start off with some intros, but before we do that, I want to mention somebody who's, not here today, um Wally Chari who's, the person who um put this all together actually and then, unfortunately, he wasn't able to make it here. So uh big big shout out to Waleed um I'm sure he is here in spirit, um even though he couldn't make it um so we're going to start off with some intros I'll just go really quick.

A

I'm I'm, rich Burroughs I work at Loft, Labs um I'm a middle-aged and uh was diagnosed about a year ago, a year and a half ago, I think it was um Farah.

B

Okay, hi everyone, my name is uh and I am the head of the modern applications. Community at AWS, I live in Portland Oregon have two boys and I was diagnosed when I was a teenager.

B

C

Okay, so hello, everyone, my name, is um I'm working for Microsoft, a software engineer, an AKs team I am a mom for two daughters, I live in California, um originally from Egypt, and what else yeah I've been diagnosed with the ADHD uh almost one and a half years ago,.

D

Hi, my name is Bart Farrell I'm, a freelance consultant working with the data on kubernetes community and I'm from California, but I currently live in Spain I've been living there for the last 11 years. With my amazing partner, Maite I love you um and I got diagnosed with ADHD this year, so I guess I'm kind of the new kid on the Block yeah.

E

A

um So I wanted to start off by asking everybody um how you learned that you have ADHD.

B

Well, School assignments, I wasn't completing my school assignments and uh I, actually I would complete them. I just wouldn't turn them in. So it was a done deal for me um and my mom decided that we should probably see somebody because she didn't understand why I was such a good student, but would get you know bad grades on like my homework and things, but I would Ace my tests, so none of it made sense uh and um remember when I got diagnosed.

B

I like I didn't really want to have that, because then I kind of felt like something was weird with me and I expected like ADHD, to be like this hyper kid running around everywhere, that you know can't sit down or things um but yeah, that's I was diagnosed and because I wasn't turning well turning in completed assignments.

C

um I was diagnosed a little bit late and actually I started to feel like what's going on when I started to you know like my journey, was you know like kubernetes and everything I loved it so much and I felt like okay I. This is what I wanted to do. uh I tried to learn. I tried to read book. You know, like read: lots of books, Never finish the book. uh You know like listening to any. You know like anything. It's like.

C

Okay, no I cannot complete, but I feel you know like I wanted to do this. So what's wrong, I struggled a lot uh a lot, um so yeah I started to you know like get depressed, get a lot of funny like lots of an anxiety and I feel like yo I'm, a failure you know like I cannot do it.

C

uh I cannot learn anything new and you know like blah blah blah all this stuff, I I know you know like we can't relate so yeah I started to just seek help uh and my Psychiatry my psychiatrist. She was great. She spent a lot of time until it's like hey. You know, let's do this. Let's do this test and yeah I got an ADHD. So yes I'm, not you know, like uh you know, like dancing.

C

You know like moving a lot, but I'm I'm, so distracted, so I cannot concentrate for more than you know like specific time.

D

All right, um my ADHD story actually has a lot to do with this particular community and I had always I've always been a very active person. Very energetic, very passionate and also like have I have the tendency to get distracted. Difficulty focusing really like starting things, have certain challenges, maintaining or finishing them, and but when it really got sparked realizing about adults with ADHD was listening to a podcast.

D

Where does anybody know who Redbeard is okay, so I was listening to a podcast where Red Beard was interviewed and I listened to podcasts, while I go running so that I get different pieces of information and I generally tune out the technical stuff.

D

I don't have a technical background, but when Redbeard started talking about his experience being diagnosed as an adult with ADHD a lot of his experience resonated with things that I've been going through and in addition to that, I saw a tweet from Rich yesterday or a comment about uh the pandemic kind of opening up a lot of folks um to realizing that you know. Maybe some other things are going on and that helped me get on the path towards uh diagnosis.

D

Then I had the whole doubt about doing it in Spain, because ADHD has dealt with differently in Spain and it's uh ADHD in adults is not as uh dealt with as it is in the United States, so that while I was going through, I decided that I did want to go through it and with the support uh from from my uh my partner, um I I went through the process and while going going through it, when all the things they're asking me, it was quite clear that I was going to pass with flying colors, get a 10 out of 10.

D

um and so yeah. So since then, that's like I, said it's kind of. In my experience. It's been it's an ongoing process, but I'm really grateful to this community to giving me a space where I can explore that and share that and get support for it.

A

That's great, thank you all um my story. um I was uh um I, helped organized the devops days conference in Portland and um a friend of mine. Actually, someone I knew came in and did talk, Aaron Aldridge and the talk was about uh their experience with mental illness and I knew it was going to be about that. But I didn't know they were going to be talking about.

A

Adhd and I was just blown away because um I'd never really understood it and I was watching this talk and almost had tears in my eyes because they were just describing my experience completely and so in typical ADHD fashion.

A

I didn't get diagnosed for like a year and a half I put it off, but I was struggling so much in the pandemic. That I finally did and um it's helped me a lot.

A

um Maybe we could talk a little bit about um what um some of the ways are that you kind of try to deal with your ADHD symptoms in your life.

B

Studying lots of reminders uh I have all my bills set on electronic because again for me, if I like wrote, the check then like to me it's done and I won't remember to to send it.

B

um I for big projects are just for tasks that aren't necessarily exciting to me like when I just cannot force myself to do that. I actually have accountability partners that I'll, like actually text, and you know we'll set up time to actually work together because I know I need to get this project done. I've been waiting for two weeks, it's still sitting there, uh you know, and or maybe some more like that strategic, where you actually have to like sit and think about things. So it's just actually having somebody there.

B

That knows what I'm trying to accomplish that's also working too, but then you could also like engage with a little bit so that I don't get super bored like when I'm doing that, I found that that's been really really helpful. um For me, um medication definitely helps me. I went off medication for a bit just because I felt like there was such a stigma tied to it and even like I, remember like picking up my prescriptions. Sometimes I felt like I was being judged, and so I just didn't want to do that anymore.

B

um But then, as my career grew and responsibilities, grew um I I was yeah when I was failing, I decided to go back on medication, and you know that actually really really helped me, but really that accountability partners and having friends that I can reach out to when I, when I'm struggling to actually get something done, even though, like I want to do it and I'll wake up every day with a good intention to do it. uh You know setting that time with somebody like on a Friday, or you know.

B

Sometimes it's on Saturday when I need to catch my friends to actually accomplish that. Work has been really really helpful.

C

Well, it's um I cannot say that you know, like I. um I know that, like what should I do uh to, you know like to to be like very effective, but at least um I can share with you like what I've you know like I've done so far, so um because I, you know, like I, intend to have lots of commitments without you know like it's like over commitments, all the time so before you know like it's like um I I got this uh this habit. Now.

C

If anyone asked me about any project- or you know like contributing to anything, it's like hey, yeah I will you know, like you know, like I? Will reply to you in you know, like a couple of you know like next day, or maybe you know like after a few hours and I have I, have like a small whiteboard in my desk that you know like writing everything, uh because I will forgot uh so, and you know like it's like: okay do I have any place.

C

Do they have any any time to do this or not so I'm? Trying to just enforce me to enforce myself to you know, like it's like think think, before Comet um to anything uh the second actually I I just told you about that. The Whiteboard is my friend. Now, that's that's my lovely friend so I'm trying to add like to-do list every every day morning with you know, like maybe 100 things you know like I know that you know like I'm, not I'm not be able to finish.

C

Even you know, like percent over them, but it's like take. You know like taking them from my mind, putting them in front of me. It's just a relaxation. You know like because it's like I feel, like my mind, is you know like running all the time I can you know like it's like I cannot concentrate in only one thing, so I need to just you know like uh take all this information from here, put it in in other places.

C

So it's like a uh you know like someone something you know like shared this with me, and uh if, if there is any something that you know like I need to accomplish, uh I need I need, I need a company. You know like someone to accompany me to to have this done uh so sometimes the my husband I love, you I love, you I mean so he's like. Okay, uh I need I need someone you know like I need to.

C

You know like um tell you what I understood I understand so far, so you can ask me questions and these questions you know like I will come back and you know like start to.

C

You know, like oh I forgot, you know like to read the sport or you know like I, just kept this chapter or so, for example, if I wanted to read a book, I cannot, you know like you. I cannot read the book, so it's like okay I will pick some chapters, I will go through them. I will just highlight them with a marker or anything just to be focused. It's like I need to have a pen.

C

All the time with me uh so, and you know like I, would have this conversation with my husband because he's a software engineer as well. So it's like okay, you know, you don't know this part. So it's like yeah. This is my task. I will go, and you know like have this back uh what else the medication uh is like a life change for me and the important thing is accepting accepting what I have it's like I'm, not a failure. um You know like I'm, not a bad person.

C

I'm, not you know, I can I can do this. I I can do it, but just in a different way, so I'm trying to figure out with myself how to do it just in a different way.

D

I can agree with things that were said by both of them in, in my case, um well, I. Think with all this too, something that comes up a lot for me is you know, ADHD I turn that into ADH me in the sense that it's my experience and so I can only really speak to that.

D

While there are things that are in common, it's always a mixture and depending on you know when, when it starts in your life and how you approach it, the support systems that you have in place, but like with what both of them mentioned, having using reminders I'll put stuff in my calendar, I use, Evernote I start out the day. Writing like have a probably about 500 things. Has anybody actually ever successfully used the Eisenhower quadrant of urgent, important and stuff like that?

D

That should be erased? I mean it's put out there like yeah, you just separate an urgent important and then everything takes care of itself right um and so I struggle with I struggle with that about knowing about what I need to do. First, like with what pharah said doing the things that I like the most and then the rest, just kind of you know put them off or hope they disappear, which doesn't happen.

D

uh The IRS hits you up for taxes um and so yeah that that's been part of it, um but it is helpful and I re. It's funny is that I never really considered myself to be someone who liked to make lists, but I make a lot of lists, and one of the things that it's helped me is that I do have a sort of personal assistant um who I work with on other projects, and he said one of these days, I'm going to wake up inside of a list because of all this that I make.

D

um So that's one thing. Another thing that's important for me is: uh is trying to eat healthy and and so making sure that you know having like healthy snacks during the day and stuff like that and brain food, not drinking too much coffee um drinking enough water exercise is a really important thing for me too, to like have that time, um to sort of calm myself down and um other things like something that that Heba mentioned that that's really challenging about uh ADHD and not and once again, as Richard said in the beginning.

D

We're not you know, medical professionals, but something that's talked about. A lot in ADHD is what's called uh rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria and it's not necessarily a specific clinical term, but it's a mixture of different things that many people have ADHD say is the the hardest part about it that low sense of self-worth, not just a reaction to being rejected, but the fear of being rejected. The expectation anticipation, that's going to happen and then a sort of what can happen about emotional dysregulation um if that happens, or even before it happens.

D

So the stress that you go through jump into the worst case scenario, assuming that things are going to go well and in general feeling like a failure and that's really hard um and so to build that up, you have to find different ways to be kind to yourself, because and and it's challenging and there's no magic solution to that. So once again, I I really want to tell everybody out there who has ADHD or is helping someone who does that it's trial and error, it's not going to be a straight shot.

D

um Medication has also been part of my process and that's still an ongoing thing of you know, figuring out, what's the best mixture and and how to make that right. um I also, when I got diagnosed, should have asked more questions about that. So I once again, I encourage anybody when they're starting this process, ask all your questions and and ask them twice if you're not sure or make a list, um but I would say those are the things that definitely help me also in in and it's up to everybody and I.

D

Don't want to jump ahead too far ahead to the next questions, but another thing that has helped me in certain situations is telling people that I have ADHD so that they understand my like certain things about my way of working. I never wanted to try to sound like it's an excuse, and so sometimes I'll, maybe even shy away from it when I should say it, um but I I, more and more try to figure out when it's appropriate to provide context.

D

um So I would say those are generally the things that um that I've been doing and yeah and then other things as well too, like um I'm, also very impulsive, so I always keep like a guitar or ukulele like close to where I am where I'm working and stuff I want to take a quick break. I can do that time. Blindness is another thing. That's talked about with ADHD and so like with what uh what the others were saying as well. Sometimes thinking that, oh, it's only been five minutes.

D

No, it's been two hours uh or or the opposite. So, like I said, these are things that's just anticipating that and then building that into your to your routines, I've always been someone who's very anti-routine, so it's like I have to sort of you know. It's like I know that if I set up a routine, my other my ADHD self will come in and sabotage and destroy it and a bit of an anarchist as well um so yeah.

D

These are the things that um that I'm still working on, but it's been I'm, seeing positive changes and that's really that's really promising, because I know that I'm just getting started with this I'm 37 years old. So it took a while to get here um but excited about the progress that I've been making and also interacting folks, like the wonderful people here here on stage and while they love you.

A

Great um I'd add that um I do think the structure is important like having reminders, and things like that can be really helpful, but keep in mind that you might get bored with those things. So one of the things I've learned about ADHD is that interest is very important if, if something is novel and interesting to you, you're less likely to struggle with it um and so I work with a coach- and um you know I was talking to her about oh I.

A

Couldn't you know, keep up with my to-do app and I just wasn't opening it anymore and, and she said hey, maybe you need to just try a new to do app every three months. You know and and not beat yourself up for the fact that you know this. One didn't work for you forever. You know, instead of considering it a failure, you know just recognize that this is how your brain is, and maybe you need to do something else um and yeah medication. I think, is a really personal thing: I'm I'm taking Ritalin.

A

It does help me, but um you know everybody has their kind of own journey, and sometimes it is really even a struggle to kind of figure out which of the medications is the right one for you. If, if any of them are we want to save some time for Q a so I think we've just got time for one more question here: I want to ask folks, um uh in the context of the kubernetes community itself, like what your experience has been like.

A

If there are things that you found really great, you know about having ADHD in this community or things that have been hard.

B

I would say the things that are hard is when you're meeting people uh you know having conversations like I get distracted really easily and so like sometimes I like won't, look direct at the person or sometimes I'll start thinking or I'll be talking through something. But then somebody walked by and now I forgot totally what I was going to say and then I.

B

You have to pause and try to remember where I'm at or sometimes I'll be telling a story and then start like on some other tangent and then trying to figure out how to get back or what I was really even trying to say and so I think those are like the harder things that you know: I'm newer to the the kubernetes community and so just trying to make sure that, like I'm, like my looking and I'm, paying attention and I'm like actively listening and like I, have to practice that and like tell myself like be an active listener.

B

You know like try to look at somebody in the eye and not keep you know, looking away the whole time or even like even like you know, when you're at the booth and having those conversations you know like I have to really focus hard because, like everything, that's going on around me, I'm constantly you know trying to like I want to pay attention. I'm, like look squirrel, you know um so I think for like the harder part and like I, think the good part is obviously like things like today.

B

You know that we have this safe split, this safe space. You know to kind of talk about it and to have shared experiences, so you don't feel so alone uh like it's not just me, I'm, not lazy, because I can't get up and do this thing that I didn't want to do and like I have a bunches.

B

I have a bunch of lists and I've tried really hard to organize my life and I do have to change how I'm doing it, because I do get bored with what, however, I get bored really easily and I need to move on to something else. So I think like that the hard part is making sure that I'm you know participating and that I'm not looking like I'm not trying to participate and the good things are.

B

That I really think that's you know like we have this safe space, a safe space to to share and learn with one another.

C

Well, um to be honest, I'm I may I, maybe, like you know, like I'm I'm I, don't want it to look like to be like a phony person, but you know like it's like I'm really happy these. You know, like the last at least the last two years, not only because you know like I I knew what was going on since I was a teenager and why I'm?

C

You know like studying so hard, but you know like I, just forgot in the exam or something like that, um but okay, so this community, they validated me so it's like I, always have this fear of the rejection. It's like you know like people will not uh you know like they. Don't want it to talk to me or you know, like maybe you know like lots of excuses. Oh the accent is not clear. um You know like, maybe because you know like I'm Different, whatever it's like a lot of things on my head.

C

It's like you know like they will reject me. They would reject me, but actually what happened when I started to you know like to uh contribute and start to just you know like get started. They were welcoming. You know, like you know, like lots of people just reach out to me, and you know like in private uh private messages or whatever it's like hey. They wanted to speak. You know they want to talk. Let's have, let's have a conversation. You know like people, you know like, especially in Twitter. It's like I have friends.

C

Finally, because you know like it's: for my whole life, it's has been struggling so much because you know like um someday I would be very active, someday I will not I, don't want it to do anything because I'm, just bored and I cannot continue anything I can I cannot do it. I cannot do anything in just this routine. You know like it's like every day. I will wake up. I will do it's it's very hard for me.

C

The second thing that helped me a lot um is having you know like um you know, like variety of work, so I can you know so. I have I, have BRS and you know like fake.

D

C

Testing, but you know like oh I- can work in SEC release now. Oh.

D

Yeah, it's exciting.

C

You know like I, can have something here: I can review another another PR, you know like I can open an issue and another sec, so I feel like I'm I'm moving, while I'm sitting there doing doing code. So because you know coding is so hard to just you know like Focus for sometimes to to have it done. So this variety is it's. It's really helpful, um so yeah I really like what I'm doing right now.

D

I would Echo that that you know, because sometimes there can be a tendency to talk too much about the positive things that can come along with ADHD and ignore the negative ones, but some of the positive ones I completely agree with how about like. For me, being part of this ecosystem is being able to plug so many different things about my life, whether it's speaking Spanish having lived in different countries working and working in events, video production, all these different things.

D

At the same time with what she said, I suffered a lot when I got started um because of imposter syndrome, because I don't have a technical background and thinking like someone is going to call me out and tear me to pieces, and it was really really stressful and then getting to the point that when someone asked a very technical question, I would say honestly I, don't think I'm the best person to answer that. But I can definitely find you, someone who can and people say, oh great, so I get to meet somebody else.

D

You know, and and realizing the value that I can provide in networking and having resources depending on what people might need, that that adds value, and so I I really think that I feel extremely lucky, because um I told my my wife this when I first got started out that for me getting into this space is kind of like uh getting to Neverland, as if like it was an alternative universe.

D

That I wasn't aware that uh existed and, like I, said, being able to to use those different things, whereas someone who doesn't have ADHD might just want to focus on one thing: I'm someone who likes to jump around what I would say, though- and this is also what Heba said um and and pharah mentioned too, is in terms of working with people that have ADHD.

D

Is that, because of the fear of rejection a lot of times, ADHD folks will some some will go out of their way to be people Pleasers and we'll have a real hard time saying no to things if they're offered and we'll end up with have a set about over commitment and so before, saying yes, or that you can always have a nice?

D

No is that before I say yes to something: I really need to check all the existing things that I have going on, so that I don't spread myself too thin and then get really angry at myself and beat myself up for not being able to do things that it's literally impossible to get to um and then having to get out of something when I've already committed to it.

D

So those are things that I would um say to keep in mind, um but most of all, I, just and and also as well too, going back to being welcomed in this space I. We don't have enough time to give shout outs. One of the first people that I interacted with is with us right here is Chris short and shout out to Matt broberg as well.

D

All the folks in the in the country of X um group and I got into that because of Divya because of Rin because of Savita because of a lot of wonderful people. That knew my background experience and still encouraged me to get in, because I thought I'm not going to be able to do anything here. I.

E

D

A religious studies, degree and I've never written a line of code in my life, but I have tons of stuff to do here and I'm super grateful for that and I feel extremely loved and supported, and for me, it's just a privilege to try to give that back and really pay it forward.

D

That's something an expression, I didn't know before getting into this space is the idea of paying it forward and I think we all have something to give whatever it happens, to be and I just really like being in an environment where those kind of things are happening and those experiences are being built.

A

Awesome, thank you. All I I just add really quickly again the the importance of interest, and you know, I very much Echo what Heba had to say. You know when I came to work at my current job. I talked to my boss about this. Our CEO Lucas and I mentioned that um you know I I struggle sometimes, and the boredom was really bad and his response was well. We've got a lot of different things. You can do so um you shouldn't get bored, but um it's been.

A

It's been really good to have that kind of out in the open. um We are going to I. Think we're just gonna have time for some quick questions, but before we do that, I just wanted to mention that we really are just hoping to kind of start a conversation with people here.

A

um This isn't, you know, meant to uh uh be the end of it. um There is the burnout channel in the cncf slack and some folks have talked about these kind of issues there. Some uh I understand um there's a couple other other things that you might check out here too, but you know we we weren't sure Oh. We must type burnout, didn't we we have. We have ADHD by the way, uh but uh but we, um you know we talked about.

A

Potentially you know advocating for a new channel in the slack or something like that and we weren't sure if people even want that, so we kind of want to kick this back to the community and- and you know, maybe we can start some conversations about whether this is worth. You know pursuing more um I think we have time for just one or two questions. Oh there's a lot of hands. Oh my gosh. What we're gonna do yeah yeah yeah.

A

um So uh so you are, you gonna bring the mic around or um how about their and um speakers. What um I guess when we hear the questions, maybe just give me a little wave if you're super excited by answering that one okay.

E

Go ahead! uh Okay, so.

E

E

Has meditation ever entered your like mine in terms of ways to it's, not a magic, Silver Bullet by any means, but if it's something that you've ever uh tried extensively or you tried it once and then like just gave up or one of those things so.

A

The question is meditation. Okay, let me I'm just going to say one thing: real quick, which is that I've done it at times, but like everything, I have trouble, keeping the routine up right and I literally just forget to do it uh part.

D

Of the 30 second answer: I start every day with like an affirmation where I have a bunch of different things, written down and I, take deep breaths in between and it lasts about five minutes and so, like all the different things that I want to remind myself about whether it's about self-worth, whether it's about organizing myself, whether it's about all those different things so that I start the day with like at an equal like we can say playing field or um with the same sort of uh focus and that's helpful and but, like I said that's just my case.

D

Yeah other times, I've tried, like mindfulness things and stuff like that. I do listen to ADHD concentration, music, stuff, that's on YouTube and that's helpful as like background music, because, if not I love, music and I'll just jump around from song to song, and then that becomes really distracting. So that's.

C

My case yeah yeah go first, oh no go ahead, yeah, okay, okay!

C

So for me uh having music in the background helps a lot um in the morning. Okay, so in in my my phone I have a lot a lot of reminders. A lot of reminders. It's like reminding me to take the medicine, remind remind another reminder for take a break another reminder for uh drink a coffee. How many times I drink coffee I have meetings. uh You know like another reminder. My you know like in my phone or you know, like my Apple watch and again accept yourself. This is really important.

C

Accept yourself accept that I will try. I will fail. I will try again. Oh I, you know like it. It happened this time. It's okay and you know, like start, you know, like start again, start again, all the time.

B

So I meditate- it's it's taken me a long time to get there. I can get to you know 10 minutes before I think my mind starts to to wander. uh I used to wonder like why I couldn't get further but like even getting to 10 minutes uh was a big deal for me. I also practice Yoga Nidra at in the evening, which is kind of like this talk down of your body.

B

Trying to relax myself along with, like I, think music is very meditative for me, um so yeah I, definitely I've gotten to 10-15 minutes and that's about as far as I can get.

A

All right, I, I'm, sorry I, don't think we're gonna have time for another question: we've got one minute left. Did we have ADHD and like to talk, um but I really want to thank everyone for coming. This is such a great turnout and um we're really excited that. So many folks wanted to talk about this.

A

um Like I said: um let's, let's please keep the conversation going and um thank you all I hope you all enjoy the rest of your kubecon.