►
From YouTube: Panel: Starting a company using Cloud Native
Description
Oliver Gould, Niraj Toila, Ashar Rizqi
Talking during Kubernetes Community Day on January 30, 2021.
https://community.cncf.io/san-salvador/
A
Thank
you
for
for
for
joining
from
southern
northern
california,
and
what
I'm
gonna
do
is
just
to
share
a
couple
of
sentences
about
your
background,
things
that
I
have
learned
highlights,
and
then
we
would
like
to
cover
a
couple.
A
couple
questions,
and
the
most
probably
everybody
is
really
eager
to
to
know,
seem
to
be
changing
the
air
in
terms
of
the
possibilities
and
so
we're
looking
forward
to
learning
from
you.
A
A
People
who
want
to
be
wanna
be
part
of
the
community
as
well.
We
had
one
of
your
employees
to
present
the
community
already
service
mesh,
and
so
what
we
learned
is
that
he
joined
the
google
summer
of
code
and
then
through
that
then
went
to
cncf
and
then
ultimately
secure
a
full-time
job.
So
the
participants
here,
I
think,
have
a
lot
to
learn
from
from
that
as
well.
A
Ashar
whiskey,
he
identified
with
him
because
he's
an
electrical
engineer
and
thinking
about
telecommunication
and
also
very
familiar
with
that
journey.
Coming
from
pakistan
to
the
united
states,
many
many
of
us
in
latin
america
tend
to
think
about
that
journey
as
well
in
terms
of
going
to
to
to
coming
here
to
the
united
states,
and
so
I
think
we
we
have
a
lot
to
learn.
You
know
from
that
in
that
journey
as
well.
Please
start
with
sharing
about.
A
I
know
you
have
companies
at
different
stages
right
what
it's
like
you
know
when
we
think
about
a
startup.
You
know,
for
me,
startup
is
a
temporary
organization
in
search
of
a
scalable
and
repeatable
business
model.
I
like
a
small
business.
Both
are
good,
but
you
know
we
want
to
think
at
that,
and
so
please
just
take
a
few
minutes
to
talk
about
your
journey
as
an
entrepreneur
what
it
means
for
you,
especially
in
the
context
of
you,
know,
cloud
native.
B
Yeah,
thank
you,
raul.
Thank
you
for
the
kind
words
and
the
a
nice
intro
that
is,
you
know
promising
much
more
than
I
that
I
hope
I
can
deliver.
So
let
me
just
share
very
quickly
my
background.
My
journey,
my
sort
of
association
with
the
you
know,
sort
of
cloud
native
foundation
and
sort
of
the
just
being
part
of
that
journey.
So
I
I'm
originally
from
pakistan.
I
was
born
there,
but
I
grew
up
in
the
middle
east
in
dubai.
B
Actually,
and
you
know
my
family
just
like
a
lot
of
immigrant
families,
are,
you
know
going
to
the
places
where
they
can
find
a
lot
of
opportunity?
And
you
know
once
I
finished
high
school.
I
have
an
older
brother
who
you
know
my
my
my.
What
I
really
wanted
to
do
was
just
do
everything
that
he
was
doing
so
he
he
had
graduated
in
electrical
engineering.
B
You
know
it's,
it's
all
this
fuzzy
code,
but
you
know
real
engineering
is
all
about
what
you
can
touch
and
feel,
and
I
was
like.
I
want
to
go
and
work
for
intel
and
you
know
semiconductor
company,
because
that's
very
real-
and
you
know
the
universe,
obviously
had
different
platforms
as
much
as
I
tried
you
know
to
get
into
that
space.
B
You
know
I
just
wasn't
smart
enough
or
whatever
the
reason
was
like
I
just
couldn't
get
any
of
that,
and
you
know
my
the
time
was
ticking
for
me
in
terms
of
getting
a
visa
and
you
know
finding
a
job,
and
I
had
a
my
girlfriend
at
the
time
who
well
girlfriends
like
who
became
my
wife
eventually
was
like
hey,
let's
get
married
and
we
had
a
long
distance
thing
going
on.
So
I
was
like.
B
I
really
want
to
go
back
into
the
semiconductor
space
because
again,
real
engineering,
real
hardware
engineering,
you
know
so
it
was
a
very
young
kind
of
inexperienced
mindset
and
then
you
know
I
moved
to
silicon
valley,
because
I
found
an
opportunity
to
kind
of
join
this
hyper
growth,
startup
called
box.com-
and
you
know
my
my
and
at
the
time
devops
was
really
just
in
its
beginning
phases.
The
word
devops
was
really
starting
to
come
in
and
a
lot
of
education
was
going
on
around
it.
Companies
were
really
debating
whether
we
should
adopt
this.
B
These
principles,
these
practices
at
the
time,
chef
puppet,
were
really
kind
of
the
big.
You
know
orchestration
and
automation,
sort
of
companies
at
the
time,
they've
kind
of
fizzled
out
a
little
bit
over
the
last
decade
or
so
so
that
attracted
me
to
that
stack
attracted
me
to
come
and
work
on
the
infrastructure
side
for
box.com,
and
that's
where
I
got
to
see
a
whole
world
of
you
know
what
does
it
take
to
build
a
cloud-first
cloud-native
company?
And
you
know
why
do
we
do
that?
B
B
You
know
our
own
alerting
system,
our
own
observability
system,
because
you
know
that's
what
I
like
to
do
and
so
anyways
was
part
of
that
journey
then
joined
another
sort
of
pre-ipo,
fast-growing
company
called
mulesoft,
which
was
later
went
public
and
then
was
acquired
by
and
had
a
very
large
presence
in
south
america.
So
I
had
a
chance
to
come
visit.
B
But
what
gets
left
behind
is
really
the
people
challenges
like.
How
are
how
do
you
make
your
developers
more
efficient
and
you
know
give
them.
You
know
super
power,
so
they
can
manage
complexity
and
that
kind
of
became
the
seed
of
of
blameless.
Because
what
ended
up
happening
was
a
lot
of
the
the
operations
folks
would
get
left
behind
and
say:
oh,
you
know
what
I'm
just
going
to
write
code
and
ship
it
and
then
there's
some
guy
with
the
title.
B
Sra
or
operations
engineer
who's
going
to
take
care
of
these
problems
for
me
and
that
wasn't
really
a
world
that
I
wanted
all
of
any
of
us
to
live
in,
and
so
that
became
the
genesis
of
blameless.
You
know
we
when
we
got,
you
know
applied
to
y
combinator
got
accepted,
ended
up
not
going
actually
doing
y
combinator,
but
because
we
ended
up
raising
a
seed
round
and
a
series
a
round
later
on
from
some
tier
1
vcs,
which
is
a
very
fortunate
journey.
B
But
the
one
thing
that
I'll
I'll
just
say
and
then
I'll
transfer
over
to
oliver
is
my
biggest
learning.
There
was
really
at
the
time
it
looks
like
it
was
a
very
smart
thing
to
do,
but
I
promise
you
one
thing
is
that
in
that
moment
I
had
no
clue
what
I
was
doing
and
why
we
were
able
to
raise
money
and
why
this
was
exciting.
B
But
the
biggest
learning
for
me
there
was
to
really
look
at
step
back
and
look
at
the
you
know:
what
are
the
high
level
market
trends
that
are
really
going
to
you
know,
drive
or
determine
your
success
because,
quite
frankly,
99
that's
what
people
refer
to
as
luck?
It's
really
not
luck!
I
would
say
I
mean
there's,
obviously
an
aspect
of
luck
to
it,
but
it's
really
having
some
kind
of
a
sense
of
okay.
B
Here's
where
we
are
today,
here's
what
the
past
does
look
like
and
my
prediction
and
what
I
think
the
future
is
going
to
look
like
so
I'll.
Give
you
a
very
simple
example,
which
seems
more
obvious
now
than
it
did
maybe
three
years
ago,
which
is
really
around
the
complexity
of
running
and
managing
and
maintaining
microservices
I
mean
we
can.
B
We
all
know,
because
we're
part
of
the
cncf
community
is
that
there's
just
now
more
sort
of
energy
excitement
ubiquitousness
around
the
adoption
of
you,
know,
containerized
platforms
and
passes
and
stuff
like
that,
even
up
until
three
years
ago
or
four
years
ago.
This
wasn't
the
case,
so
it
was,
but
a
lot
of
companies
that
made
that
bet
at
that
time
are
now
benefiting
from
this
really
big
wave.
That's
pulling
them
from
a
lot
of
you'll
hear
about
this
in
a
lot
of
observability
companies
and
stuff
like
that,
but
anyways.
I
know.
B
A
C
C
Sorry
about
that
timing
yeah,
so
it's
actually
funny.
I
think
my
background
is
very
different
from
shows,
but
very
parallel
in
some
ways
I
think,
especially
in
the
summary,
so
I'm
from
new
jersey,
originally
I'm
the
first
one
in
my
family
to
go
to
college.
I
went
to
a
small
engineering
school
in
new
jersey,
called
stevens
institute
and.
C
There
to
get
kind
of
early
in
my
academic
career
of
some
exposure
to
like
linux
and
unix
systems,
and
that
really
sparked
an
interest
for
me,
like
I.
I've
always
been
kind
of
interested
in
like
how
things
work
and
really
I
got
into
computer
science
at
all,
because
I
wanted
to
have
a
website
with
a
counter
and
to
have
a
counter.
You
had
to
have
a
web
server
somewhere
held
that
state,
and
so
I
learned
pearl
to
write
a
counter
and
then
like
that
really
spawned
this
whole
career.
C
C
Was
working
in
production
operations?
So
what
what
was
like
an
ops
or
system
and
team
and
really
working
on,
like
you
know
the
start
of
cloud
services
at
yahoo
like?
How
do
you
provision
vms
yourself
without
having
to
go
through
hardware,
revision,
requisition
processes?
And
then
I
went
to
twitter
in
2010?
C
I
was
probably
the
second
or
third
programmer
hired
on
the
ops
team,
and
so
where
my
full
focus
was
going
to
be
programming
and,
like
I
sure
said,
we
were
building
our
own
observability
systems
and
twitter
was
building
mesos,
which
was
kind
of
a
predecessor
to
kubernetes.
But
a
lot
of
these
core
infrastructure
technologies
were
developed
at
all
of
these
companies,
and
a
lot
of
this
comes
from
google
and
facebook
too,
where,
like
google
facebook
did
it
this
way?
C
And
then
all
those
engineers
want
to
go
do
this
at
other
companies
and
we
that
was
really
fortunate
timing
to
be
there,
because
I
got
to
see
twitter
go
from
a
single
rails,
application
to
a
big
distributed
microservice
and
you
know
really
see
how
the
organization
shifted
and
so
like.
When
I
started,
I
was
on
an
ops
team
that
had
a
single
pager
for
the
whole
company.
C
Two
years
later,
I
was
on
call
for
my
own
services
that
I
would
work
on
during
the
day
and
get
paid
on
at
night
and
so
going
through
that
transition
and
really
being
able
to
internalize
the
things
that
are
difficult
about
it
and
are
unpleasant
about
it
and
and
what
what
makes
things
work
well
not
is
really
what
informed
when
we
wanted
to
go
start
a
company,
and
I
never
wanted
to
be
an
entrepreneur.
My
dad
was
kind
of
an
entrepreneur,
my
whole
life
and
it
seemed
like
a
very
stressful
busy
life.
C
We've
been
in
the
middle
of
this
and
like
docker's
happening,
kubernetes
is
happening.
All
of
these
things
are
gonna
happen
and
we,
we
should
go,
apply
our
skills
not
in
the
like
back
room
of
one
of
these
consumer
companies,
but
we
should
go,
provide
value
directly
at
what
we're
good
at,
and
so
that
was
really
the
start
of
buoyant
and
that
happened
early
late,
2014
early
2015.
That's
when
we
actually
started
the
company
and
we
really
took
the
same
techno
open
source,
technical
things.
C
C
Like
well,
if
you're
at
a
company
and
you're
trying
to
do
microservices
you're
going
to
have
to
solve
all
of
these
communications
problems,
and
the
communications
piece
is
really
what
becomes
the
interesting
part
of
a
very
high
leverage
piece
of
the
system
and
no
one
was
working
on
it
at
the
time
right.
Everyone
in
the
mesos
land
was
just
focusing
on
getting
containers
up
and
running,
and
no
one
was
talking
about
how
to
make
them
communicate.
Well,.
C
A
And
the
thing
is
that
these
can
happen
everywhere
in
the
world.
I
mean
like
the
basic
I
mean,
I'm
thinking
that
the
basic
all
basic
needs.
You
know
we
need.
We
need
schools,
we
need,
we
need
food,
so
I
mean
the
the
active
companies
right
now:
the
supermarkets,
you
know
the
food
delivery
systems,
and
so
those
are
large
distributor
systems
as
well.
Right
I
mean
everything
starts
small,
but
it
can
grow
from
there.
C
C
A
C
I
I
yeah,
I
think
I
mean,
as
as
part
of
the
journey
of
starting
a
company
there.
I'm
sure
sean
was
kind
of
saying
this
too.
Like
you
start,
you
don't
really
know
why
people
are
interested
in
it
or
if
it's
a
good
idea,
and
you
kind
of
have
to
like
trust
yourself
and
be
willing
to
fail
quickly
and
like
accept
that
it's
going
to
be
hard
and
yeah.
I
think
that
it's
been
the
journey
of
starting
a
company
is
one
that
is
a
lot
about.
C
A
There's
a
there
is
a
question
here
from
don
clark.
I
think
he
says
I
and
few
industry
colleagues
telco
entrepreneurs
are
trying
to
address
the
severe
challenges
for
startups
to
engage
with
telcos
telecom.
I
put
a
link
to
a
group
in
the
demand
chat.
Do
you
guys
share
the
view
that
telecom
is
a
graveyard
for.
A
B
They're
very
they've
been
built
to
the
point
where
it's
more
about
governance
and
risk
and
control
than
it
is
about
innovation.
Of
course,
this
a
lot
of
this
is
changing
by
the
way,
and
generally,
if
you
take
a
very,
like
sort
of,
you
know
very
like
a
an
open-ended
approach
to
engaging
with
telcos,
then
I
100
agree
that
you
know
you
will.
Probably
it
does
become
a
graveyard
very
quickly
because
just
to
navigate
decision
making
understanding
that
decision
making
in
itself
can
take.
B
Can
I
find
that
one
small
team
of
let's
say
five
to
ten
engineers
that
is
kind
of
really
moving
away
from
the
rest
of
the
pack
and
just
like
moving
very
quickly
and
adopting
cloud
technologies,
adopting
new
practices,
new
cultural
patterns
and
stuff
like
that
and
you're
not
going
to
get
that
just
by
googling
and
sort
of
just
doing
some
random
linkedin
searches?
You
have
to
have
the
connections
in
those
companies
to
identify.
Very
specifically.
What
is
that?
One
team?
B
That's
a
small
sliver
of
hope
that
I
would
that
I
have
for
a
lot
of
these
large
companies
and
something
that
we've
seen
where
they've
engaged
with
very
very
early
stage.
Companies
is
it's
it's
the
ones
that
are
just
like
a
small
five
to
ten
percent
team
that
is
kind
of
empowered
to
make
its
own
decisions
and
move
quickly
right,
I'll,
just
say
one
more
thing,
which
is
generally
my
the
other
thing.
B
What
is
the
horizon
2
and
horizon
3
going
to
look
like
when
everybody
has
a
cell
phone,
that's
performing
at
4g
5g
levels,
and
you
know
your
the
needs
that
your
basic
needs
need
to
be
fulfilled,
and
I
would
recommend
folks
to
kind
of
look
beyond
that
and
assume
for
a
second
that
the
infrastructure
to
you
know
for
your
cloud
and
app
ecosystem
has
kind
of
been
put
in
place.
The
network
infrastructure
is
in
place.
What
does
the
future
look
like
and
that's
where
I
think
the
opportunities
become
really
really
exciting?
It's
a
pattern.
B
I've
seen
in
a
lot
of
developing
countries.
I
myself
am
from
pakistan,
so
I've
worked
with
early
stage
companies
in
pakistan,
and
I
see
this
pattern
where
they're
like
hey
the
telcos,
have
money
and
we
want
to
go
to
them
and
we
want
to
get
them
excited
about
what
we
want
to
solve
problems
for
them
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff
and
again
it
what
ends
up
happening
is
you
know
it
really
comes
down
to
like
who
do
you
know
at
those
places
that
can
help
you?
B
C
Yeah
on
that,
like
I
I,
what
I'm
most
excited
about
is,
I
think
our
users
are
going
to
be
the
people
who
are
our
customers
and
our
open
source
users
are
going
to
be
the
one
that
disrupt
the
telephones
like
we're
not
going
after
the
market
incumbents,
we're
going
after
everyone
who's
trying
to
eat
their
market
right,
and
I
think
you
know
we
can
be
a
part
of
that
transformation.
That's
great
for
our
company
and
it's
also
great
for
the
industry,
because
that's
kind
of
the
how
things
should
work
right.
A
Thinking
about
that,
the
other
question
that
I
wanted
to
address
so
a
lot
of
folks
in
here
would
be
maybe
interested
in
this
question
as
well
is
knowing
what
you
not
know,
and
you
you're
very
much
involved
in
different
parts
of
the
world.
You
know
in
the
past,
you
know
the
the
idea
was
that
things
happened
in
silicon
valley.
B
Yeah,
that's
a
that's
a
really
great
question
raul
and
I
think
you're
spot
on
in
terms
of
like
because
of
covid.
So
this
is
a
two-part
answer
right
because
it's
a
little
bit
more
nuanced.
The
reality
is
that
look
at
the
end
of
the
day,
a
lot
of
the
talent,
the
when
I
say
money
I
don't
mean
like
just
any
capital,
I
mean
just
like
a
smart
capital
that
has
you
know
decades
worth
of
experience.
B
Investing
in
building
technology
company
happens
to
be
concentrated
very
much
in
silicon
valley,
so
that
is
a
reality
that
I
think
people
it
is
now
starting
to
slowly
diffuse
out
into
other
areas
and
it'll
be
probably
three
to
five,
maybe
maybe
a
longer
time
frame
before
we
start
to
see
more
of
these
hubs
and
when
I
say
hub,
it's
not
just
like
where's
the
talent
but
the
talent,
the
money,
the
connections,
the
customers
all
coming
together.
You
know
that
those
kinds
of
hubs
you
know
austin,
just
in
the
united
states
austin-
is
a
place.
B
B
If
you
know
maybe
it's
just
your
sort
of
non-r
d
kind
of
function,
that's
there
at
the
same
time,
what
I'll
say
is
what
I
found
over
the
last
you
know
five
to
seven
years.
Is
that
the
because
of
you
know,
communities
like
cncf
and
open
the
open,
just
general
open
source
community,
which
is
incredible
just
the
shift.
That's
happened
in
terms
of
knowledge
and
mind.
B
Share
kind
of
diffusion
that
has
gone
out
to
the
rest
of
the
world
is
actually
pretty
amazing
right
where
I'd
say
seven
to
ten
years
ago,
it
used
to
be
oh
we're
gonna.
You
know,
companies
had
this
decision
to
make
hey
we're
gonna
there
was
this
conception,
which
now
is,
is
definitely
a
misconception
that
oh
silicon
valley,
engineering,
talent
is
much
higher
quality
than
or
north
american
engineering
talent
is
much
higher
quality.
B
Rising
tides,
lift
all
boats,
and
I
think
you
know
for
those
folks,
you
know
the
the
the
key
thing
for
me
is
that
the
talent,
the
the
technical
engineering
talent,
is,
has
really
come
up
to
par,
where
it's
becoming.
You
know
it.
It's
it's
kind
of
reached
this
tipping
point
where
you
can
say
you
know
what
I
can
get
a
similar.
You
know
a
similar.
B
You
know
quality
in
terms
of
engineering
talent
which
I
couldn't
get
before
outside,
where
I
don't
have
to
be
paying
people
top
dollar
because
they
happen
to
have
the
what
I
like
to
call
the
pedigree
more
than
anything
right.
It's
like
oh
they've,
worked
at
these,
these
big
name
companies,
but
it
really
comes
down
to
can
they
deliver
and
execute
and
solve
the
same
kind
of
problems
that
I
am
and
I
think
that's,
the
biggest
shift.
That's
happened
and
I
think
that's
a
that's.
B
B
We
are
have
achieved
the
same
levels
as
kind
of
you
know
for
looking
from
the
outside
you're,
like
oh
wow,
there's
this,
like
you
kind
of
get
star
struck
by
silicon
valley,
but
what
I'm
challenging
that
to
say,
like
that's
no
longer
true
anymore,
and
you
know
you
should
really
believe
that
and
you'll
see
a
lot.
You
know,
and
I
it'll
create
a
domino
effect
of
money
that
flows
out
into
a
lot
of
these
countries.
C
So
I
think
I
see
we're
seeing
investors
become
smarter
about
this
stuff.
I
think
cncf
especially
like,
and
now
my
father-in-law
asked
me
about
kubernetes,
because
he's
heard
about
it-
and
it's
like,
I
think
the
tides
are
shifting
there,
but
the
access
to
capital
is
very
unique
in
the
bay
area.
I
think
yeah.
B
B
B
It's
like
okay.
What
does
the
developer
ecosystem
look
like
you
know?
How
does
it
change
the
way
we
do
product
development?
What
are
the
product
managers
going
to
need?
What
are
these
kind
of
tools
that
really
plug
into
what's
coming
out
of
cncf
and
so
on
and
so
forth?
How
can
we
make
people
better?
You
know
sellers
of
software,
you
know
and
stuff
like
that.
So
it's
just
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
adjacencies
that
I
think
it
sort
of
creates
and,
and
you
know
I
think
people
should
think
about.
C
Yeah
also,
we
were
both.
You
know
blessed
by
having
good
networks
from
working
at
companies
where
we're
meeting
people
and
cncf
is
that
network.
Now
that
kind
of
spans
beyond
you
know,
unemployment,
boundary,
and
so
I've
now
become
great
friends
with
folks
at
you
know
all
of
the
major
cloud
providers
and
other
startups,
and
that's
all
through
going
to.
A
A
C
Well,
it's
a
lot
cheaper
to
get
started,
I
mean
you
can
most
startups
can
get
free
credits
on
the
cloud
providers.
You
get
a
whole
bunch
of
tools
that
you
can
just
take
off.
Buying
software
like
we're
customers
of
countless
other
startups
who
just
provide
kind
of
tiny
little
functions
that
we
would
have
to
hire
for
or
you
know
so.
I
I
think
the
that
ecosystem
just
pays
dividends
and
lets
you
lean
on
common
things
that
are
being
solved
by
everyone
instead
of
by
individual
companies.
B
B
B
That's
what
a
lot
of
companies
like
a
lot
of
these
accelerators
kind
of
make
you
you
know
when
you,
when
you're
part
of
that
that's
the
ex
that's
kind
of
the
the
motion
that
they
really
drive
you
to
is
that
within
three
months,
you're,
you've,
you're
sort
of
doubling
your
user
growth
and
stuff
like
that,
and
all
of
that
comes
from
just
leveraging
cloud
technology
sort
of
native.
So.
A
B
I
think
it's
a
it's
a,
I
think
what
you're
asking
is
like
what
are
the
leading
indicators
that
kind
of
demonstrate
or
show
startups
that
are,
you
know
more
likely
to
succeed,
because
obviously,
success
is
not
guaranteed
but
more
likely
to
succeed
and
get
to
a
reason.
You
know
a
good
outcome
and
I
would
say
you
know,
there's
there's
a
few
few
ways
to
look
at
it.
You
know.
B
Look
at
you
know
the
the
most
important
thing
is
the
founding
team
is
like:
what
is
what
does
the
team
look
like
and
like?
If
I'm,
if
I'm
an
investor,
if
I'm
like
looking
for
a
co-found,
whatever
I
look
at,
who
is
the
founding
team?
That's
one
again
understanding
the
problems
base
is
pretty
important,
but
that's
that's
pretty
abstract
at
this
point,
but
you
you
know
you
look
at.
B
Where
are
the
the
tier
one
investors
putting
their
money
consistently
and
what
industries
and
stuff
like
that,
and
then
you
go
to
linkedin
and
look
at
you
know
how
many
people
they've
hired,
how
many
job
posts
there's
like
a
bunch
of
different
sort
of
things
that
you
can
look
at?
That
can
kind
of
give
you
a
sense
of
like
hey.
Where
is
a
company
headed
and,
of
course,
there's
just
like
the
brand
awareness
right.
Like
you
hear
constantly,
you
know
a
name
like
you
know,
buoyant
and
linker
d.
B
You
know
you
guys
have
done
a
pretty
incredible
job,
because
you
know
a
lot
of
you
know.
I
would
be
surprised
if
folks
don't
know
about
like
you're
just
tied
to
service
mesh
and
service
mesh
technology,
and
you
know
linker
d
being
open,
source
and
stuff
like
that.
It's
just
this
constant
drum
beat
that
you
hear
about.
So
it's
never
one
thing:
it's
always
like
a
multitude
of
things.
C
Yeah
yeah
and
I
I'm
a
little
bit
of
a
broken
record
today,
but
I
the
network,
is
so
important
right.
I
the
way
I
meet
new
startup
founders,
who
are
trying
to
like
get
their
products
off
the
ground,
is
through
their
co-workers,
who
they
worked
with
before,
who
I
know
or
their
previous
founders
at
the
last
startup.
They
were
at
like
the
network
of
folks
who
are
trying
to
build
things
is
so
important,
and
really
I
mean
one
of
the
great
things
about
silicon
valley
for
all
problems
is
that
it's
a
really
encouraging
environment.
C
B
C
A
C
An
easy
answer,
but
I
think
the
ultimate
answer
is
to
you
know,
build
something:
valuable
and
like
being
confident
building
good
demos
is
a
great
way
to
get
interest,
and
you
know
I
think
ashara
said
this
before,
but
most
investors
invest
in
teams
more
than
specific
product
ideas,
because
the
product's
gonna
change
a
hundred
times
before
it
gets
open
to
the
public,
but
they're
gonna
select
on
the
people
that
they
think
can
execute.
Well.
So
you.
C
Like
investors
had
done
all
this
reference,
checking
that,
like
they
found
people
who
sat
next
to
me
two
jobs
ago
and
like
asked,
if
I
was
you
know,
a
diligent
worker,
so
it
can
be.
You
know
again
it's
a
lot
about
relationships
and
kind
of
having
the
right
references
and
yeah.
You
know
good
good
product
sense,
kind
of
always
wins.
A
In
the
past
right,
this
is
just
from
personal
experience.
In
the
past
investors,
okay
went
to
central
america
to
find
investors
as
well.
You
know
because
people
in
central
america
there
are
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
business
owners.
They
have
these
businesses
for
a
very
long
time
right.
You
know
families,
you
know
for
for
long
periods
of
time,
and
so
they
need
to
invest
their
money,
so
they
invest
in
their
money.
Through
you
know,
private
equity
or
or
obesity's.
A
B
A
B
They're
they're
both
really
good
points
all
over
and
around
one
thing.
One
thing
that
I'll
say
is
the
most
important.
So
there's
a
couple
of
things:
one
is:
investors
are
not
going
to
invest
in
something
that's
big
today
I
mean
there
will
be
they'll.
Do
it
they're
going
to
invest
in
something
that
is
going
to
be
big
right,
and
so
what
is?
B
Why,
as
a
particular
problem,
is
the
way
it
is
today
and
how
it's
going
to
be
in
the
future
and
how
it's
evolving
and
getting
you
know
potentially
worse
and
how
your
platform
or
your
system
is
the
thing
that
comes
in
and
solves
it,
regardless
of
what
sort
of
domain
that
you're
in
right,
and
so
that's
the
story
that
the
story
arc
that
you
as
an
entrepreneur
need
to
tell
and
whether
that's
central
america
or
any
other
sort
of
part
of
the
world.
I
think
that's.
B
B
A
But
it's
you
know
it's:
it's
half
traction.
You
know!
In
central
america
you
got
rappy
who
has
raised
one
billion
dollars
in
an
investment
as
well
right
and
it's
making.
You
know
significant
progress.
So
all
these
companies
start
happening.
You
know
in
latin
america,
in
central
america
so
now
for
for
those
for
those
folks
that
perhaps
are
in
school
right
now
in
college.
We,
you
know
the
the
the
community.
A
By
joining
the
the
group,
and
so
in
part,
it
is,
I
would
say,
the
challenge
is
to
believe
that
I,
how
can
I
find
if
I
am
in
business
right
or
I
mean
I'm
studying
computer
science,
but
how
can
I
you
know,
I'm
not
programming
right.
What
other
things
can
I
do
for
the
community,
and
so
I
think
that
putting
out
together
an
event
like
this
will
be
one
right
or
documenting.
You
know
a
program
or
translating
right,
or
sometimes
you
know
connecting
just
reaching
out
asking
questions.
A
C
C
C
A
lot
of
times
just
helping
people
right,
so
we
have
a
slack
room
and
github
issues,
and
you
know
a
lot
of
what
would
I
do
with
my
day?
If
I
let
it
happen,
is
like
I'll
just
be
asking
questions
and
trying
to
help
people
debug
their
problems
with
them,
and
that
is
both
the
way.
I
learn
a
lot
about
how
different
people,
systems
work
and
different
person
kubernetes
that
I
haven't
seen
before,
but
also
it
it
is
a
real
contribution
to
the
project
because,
like
they're,
you
know
it's.
C
Like
we,
our
job
is
to
help
people
be
successful
and
when
people
help
us
help,
other
people
be
successful,
that's
even
better,
and
so
that
is
yeah.
Documentation
is
a
big
help.
There,
you
know
just
being
involved
in
debugging
and
reproducing
issues
can
be
a
really
good
way
to
learn,
and
you
know
ask
questions
at
the
same
time,
also
blog
posts
and
tech
meetup
talks
have
been
great.
I
know
sergio
who's
in
the
audience
today
has
done
a
bunch
of
both
of
those
where
he's
done.
C
C
B
A
Yeah
yeah,
so
that's
that's!
That's
the
next
question.
Well,
when
we
first
started,
you
know
thinking
about
this.
We
we
we
saw
the
possibility
of
drilling
face
to
face,
but
then
quickly
you
know
turning
to
into
virtual,
but
yeah.
We
look
forward
to
to
the
next.
You
know
the
next
step
in
in
all
this
and
get
you
to
come
back.
C
So
I
was
lucky
to
do
summer
code
when
I
was
a
student
and
it
was
really
difficult,
but
a
learning
exercise
yeah
and
we've
done
that
a
few
times
and
it's
a
great
way
to
kind
of
get
hooked
into
a
community.
But
it's
always
kind
of
starts
by
finding
projects
that
have
interesting
things
that
you're
excited
about,
and
spending
lots
of
time
on
like
way
too
much
time
is
the
only
way
you
learn
anything
in
the
space
of
my
my.
C
I
think
it's
basically
who
pays
so
summer
code.
Google
pays
and
they
it's
not
just
it's
not
just
cncf.
It's
like
any
open
source
project,
apache
foundation.
Many
many
many
apply
there.
So
if
you
want
to
do
react
development
you
can
usually
do
I'm
sure.
There's
some
react
summer
code
projects
and
things
like
that
lxf,
as
far
as
I
understand,
is
much
more
focused
on
the
linux
foundation
and
cncf,
so
they're
they're
parallel
project
interim
projects
there.
How
big
are
those
programs
google's
number
of
codes,
massive?
C
It's
been
10
or
15
years,
they've
been
at
it
and
I
don't
know
how
much
money
they
spend
every
summer,
but
it's
quite
a
bit
and
lsf
is
probably
a
bit
smaller.
I
think
you
know
in
the
linguity
project's
quite
small
as
far
as
number
of
maintainers,
so
we'll
do
between
one
and
three
interns
in
a
summer,
but
a
project
like
kubernetes
might
do
you
know
ten,
so
it
depends
on
the
size
of
the
project
and
and
yeah.
You
know
what
what
what
what's
going
on
that
summer
for
the
company.
B
B
So
you
know
they'll
sponsor
these
fellowship
programs
hire
a
bunch
of
students,
pay
them
a
stipend
and
then
they'll
give
them
a
bunch
of
sort
of
it's
a
great
opportunity
to
bring
open
source
projects
into
the
government,
and
I
think
that's
I've
seen
that
program
work
really
really
well
and
then
it
it
becomes
exciting.
Because
then
you
can
expand
beyond
that
very
quickly
into
sort
of
more
adjacent
domains
beyond
that.
B
But
if
there's
a
way
or
there's
a
program
or
some
kind
of
like
an
accelerator
incubator,
fellowship
type
thing,
you
know
it
can
be.
Maybe
at
the
local
government
level,
there's
a
there's
one
called
there's
this
code,
4
movement
that
was
started
here
called
you
know
it
was
quote
for
america,
code,
africa
and
stuff
like
that.
So
a
lot
of
I
would,
I
would
highly
recommend
folks
to
look
into
that
as
a
way
to.
I
think
there
might
be
one
for
guatemala
as
well.
There's
definitely
one
from
mexico.
B
That's
a
really
great
way
to
kind
of
engage,
and
you
know
take
on
some
of
these
projects
and
again
bring
in
a
lot
of
open
source.
You
know
a
lot
of
open
source
into
these,
these
environments,
which
is
very
cool
when
you
hear
about
the
end
results
which
is
like.
Oh,
this
government
transformed
the
way
in
which
you
know
people
get
their
driver's
license
and
it's
all
powered
by
you
know
kubernetes
linker
d,
and
it's
just
like
wow
like
we're,
really
changing
people's
lives,
so
yeah.