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From YouTube: CNCF CNF WG Meeting - 2023-05-22
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A
B
A
B
C
Oh
yeah,
that's
not
great
I!
Well,
I
I
share!
In
your
experience
somewhat
my
son,
my
my
my
senior
high
school
student,
went
to
a
friend's
graduation
in
another
state,
drove
there
on
on
Friday
and
had
to
drive
back
on
Friday
night
and
call.
He
woke
me
up
at
12
30
at
night.
To
tell
me
he
was
on
the
side
of
the
highway
with
a
flat
tire
and
he
needed
help
so
yeah
I
was
that
was
an
interesting
experience
doing
that
over
FaceTime.
C
B
C
B
Meeting
notes
in
the
chat
right
I
have
got
a
hard
stop
at
half
four
today,
but
obviously
carry
on
after
I've
gone
just
so
you
know:
I'll
I'll
need
to
drop
off
so
I.
Think
last
week
was
the
big
5G
event.
B
D
D
D
Smaller
Metro
and
as
well
as
large,
Metro
type
of
communication
Solutions,
and
some
of
that
ended
up
going
into
like
Wi-Fi
six
overlapping
into
5G
and
how
those
can
be
hybrid
type
setups
and
that
won
everything
from
people
talking
about
deployments
that
are
either
active
or
going
in
right
now
to
folks
that
are
doing
like
I
think
next,
the
next
Generation
type
research
or
building
out
Hardware
demos
and
products
IEEE
folks
were
there.
D
D
So
it's
easier
to
get
around
speak
with
people,
but
had
tried
to
get
more
of
the
service
providers,
aware
that
the
smaller
ones
specifically
and
and
then
on
the
larger
ones,
spoke
with
several
folks
from
like
Verizon
and
T-Mobile,
and
you
know
normally,
we've
had
the
most
engagement
for
the
Cloud
native
Telecom
work
that
we've
all
been
doing
from
Deutsche
Telecom
and
you
know,
of
course,
votes
on
Tom
and
and
I
would
say
a
lot
more
of
the
European
rather
than
the
North
America.
On
the
larger
telephone.
D
D
In
any
case,
there's
interested
in
the
Cloud
native
Telco
day
interested
in
the
working
group,
as
well
as
the
certification
and
test
Suite,
including
from
some
vendors
and
a
lot
of
system
integrators.
There's
a
lot
of
system
integrators
there,
but
I
did
post
with
I
think
the
comment
there
was
I
I
put
as
much
as
I.
Could
I
tried
to
put
summaries
on
LinkedIn
so
of
of
some
of
the
panels
and
talks
that
I
was
at
and
Lucina
Watson
they've
they've
shared
and
put
some
stuff
up
as
well.
D
D
Yeah
some
of
the
questions
were
actually
about.
If
where
the
resources
should
be
allocated,
and
then
it
came
down
to
what
type
of
fix
would
be
engaged,
and
so
then
those
discussions
seemed
to
happen
to
decide
on
you
know,
or
are
they
wanting
to
be
Hands-On
for
something
like
implementing
tests
and
the
test
Suites
or
there
were
definitely
interested
in
writing
it
challenges
and
those
would
be.
The
working
group
would
be
a
good
place
for
that.
D
D
Those
patterns
that
you
see
that
are
under
what's
called
get
Ops.
All
of
that
would
be
very
applicable
for
a
lot
of
the
automation
and
and
then
I
think,
there's
a
blend
between
private
5G
stuff
that
you're,
seeing
over
in
Iran
and
the
automation
end
to
end
that
a
lot
of
them
have
talked
about.
But
I
mentioned
the
the
multi-network
which
some
of
y'all
were
have
been
seeing.
The
pull
request
from
multi-network.
B
D
For
adding
a
new
network
object
that
it
expands
on
the
capabilities
and
I
I
think
that,
from
like
the
network,
automation
point
is
going
to
be
a
a
key
change
in
automating
for
kubernetes
in
a
non-vendor
specific
way.
That
probably
has
a
pretty
big
impact
on
innovating.
How
you
do
that
and
a
lot
of
new
projects
are
probably
gonna,
really
push
forward
and
we
may
have
new
new
projects
pop
up.
D
As
a
result,
too,
I
expect
stuff,
like
Dan
M,
to
take
the
ad
support
I'm
interested
to
see
what
happens
with
projects
like
multis
and
everything.
The
new
network
object
from
the
multi-network
is
supposed
to
be
a
superset
and
it'll
support
cnis.
D
So
you
could
just
continue
acting
like
a
normal
cni,
but
then
you
won't
be
taking
advantage
of
their
stuff,
so
anyways
put
forward
as
any
of
those
type
of
things
that
seem
to
be
related.
So
that
would
have
entry
points
for
discussion
like
the
folks
and
be
follow-ups
and
trying
to
get
more
engagement
for
the
next
few
weeks
as
well
as
mwc
in
September
mwc,
Las
Vegas.
So
there's
requests
to
some
of
them
want
to
meet.
If
there's
enough
folks
that
are
going
from
CNF
working
group,
then
maybe
we
can
put
something
together.
B
No
I
don't
even
got
any
questions
sounds
like
it
was.
It
was
a
good
conversations,
though,
certainly
sharing
the
challenges.
That's
always
useful
gives
us
stuff
to
work
from.
A
So
they
learned
that
you
know
if
they
they
are
going
to
make
up
available
their
recordings
or
like,
or
do
you
know
if
anyone
can
have
access
to
the
to
the
videos.
D
D
D
Yeah
we'll
share
them
for
sure
if
we,
if
we
find
this.
B
So
the
next
event
on
the
list
is
the
lfn
DTF,
which
is
virtual.
Only
cfp
is
actually
extended
to
the
end
of
today,
because
there
were
so
many
bank
holidays
at
the
end
of
last
week
across
Europe.
Certainly
so,
if
anyone
does
have
any
ideas
for
that
in
terms
of
the
work
in
between
the
test
suite
and
the
anarchips
projects,
for
example,
then
the
city
police
still
open
today
for
that.
B
B
You
just
double
check.
You
know
from
Germany,
possibly
so
do
we
want
to
keep
or
cancel
working
group
I?
Think
given
the
three
co-chairs
are
either
a
us
or
UK
based
I'm
going
to
suggest
we
cancel
it
unless
anyone
objects.
B
A
A
Propose
health
problems
could
be
a
good
candidate.
Okay,
try
to
do
others.
The
comments
and
and
move
forward
like
yeah
I
know
that
this
could
be
very
controversial
topic,
but
but
I
guess
we
have
a
lot
of
information
and
to
provide
to
do
something
like
if
this
is
something
that
we
can
make
it
like
a
best
practice,
let's
move
forward
and
to
meet
the
proposal.
A
If
this
is
not
a
best
practice,
probably
we
have
to
document
why
it's
not
a
best
practice
and
why
all
and
document
all
the
reasons
why
we
didn't
consider
that
this
is
our
best
practice,
but
yeah
I
mean
reading
the
comments
like,
for
example,
Gregory
was
saying
like
and
he's
he's.
The
main
main
point
is
like
best
in
performance,
so
so
I
don't
know
if
yeah
definitely
there
are
pros
and
cons.
A
So
I,
just
I
just
want
to
bring
this
this
particular
now
and
try
to
do
something
like
that,
like
like
try
to
find
like
a
sweet
spot
where,
where
anyone
can
feel
agree
or
or
disagree,.
A
Well,
that's
what
I
found
in
in
most
of
the
the
relevant
topics
about
this.
What
I
have
heard
is
like
the
best
practices
to
use
like
a
additional
or
an
external
like
a
service
to
manage
the
different
processes.
A
A
Guess
it's
like
the
best
way
to
summarize
it
now
that
we
have
like
a
more
for
more
Quorum
here,
like
I,
would
like
to
to
occur
your
ideas
and
know
what
what
do
you
think
about
if
this
could
be
a
good
potential
like
a
best
practice
or
like,
if
not
like,
what?
What
do
you
think
like.
D
So
the
some
of
the
comments
and
there's
make
this
a
little
bit
confusing
it
overlaps
a
couple
of
things.
So
this
is
a
the
the
issue
was
put
forward
as
a
best
practice
to
discuss
and
then
and-
and
that
could
be
documented-
put
forward.
There's
comments
in
here
that
are
related
to
the
CNF
certification
and.
E
D
Saying
whether
it's
a
best
practice,
it's
just
saying
remove
it
from
the
well
there's
three
categories
in
the
CNS
certification,
essential
and
normal
and
bonus,
and
one
of
the
comments
from
Greg
ages
is
referring
to
the
certification
and
whether
it
should
be
essential
or
not
so,.
D
It
I
want
to
make
sure
like
how
are
we
talking
about
this,
because
we
could
respond
to
a
piece
and
then
it's
not
relevant
to
the
whole
context
of
what
it
means
in
the
certification
versus.
Is
this
this
idea
in
general
a
best
practice?
Okay,
we
can
talk
about
it.
That
way,
should
it
be
part
of
a
set
of
tests
in
a
in
a
certification.
That's
a
different
thing.
Is
it
going
to
be
in
the
test
suite
at
all?
There's
a
related
pull
request.
That's
just
over
in
the
test.
D
Suite
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
when
we're
discussing
this
or
what
are
we
talking
about
and
I
will
bring
up
the
certification
just
momentarily
and
then
I
want
to
bring
it
back
to
say
what
are
we
going
to
discuss
on
the
certification
side?
There's
a
whole
set
of
tests
and
it's
not
past
failure
done
it's.
How
are
you
doing
in
an
area
you
can
have?
D
If
you
are
passing
a
certain
number
of
tests,
you
can
still
pass
the
certification
and
when
we're
looking
at
potentially
saying
that
certification
may
have
different
levels,
then
it
would
be
how
many
tests.
So
this
is
unlike
some
tests
where
they
are
going
to
be.
You
must
pass
everything
so
I
think
that's
important
and
then
related
specifically
to
this
idea
is
a
best
practice.
D
This
is
related
to
microservice
best
practices
and
we
could
go
down
to
a
specific
area,
but
there's
other
tests
that
are
in
progress
to
go
into
the
test,
Suite,
which
could
also
be
written
up
as
best
practices
which
should
be
related,
at
which
point
on
the
certification
side
you
could
say:
well,
we
passed
three
out
of
four
of
those
related
tests.
We
didn't
pass
the
one
process
time
or
we
passed
it
my
past,
a
couple
of
others.
We
still
are
showing
that
we're
following
best
practices
for
microservices.
D
D
There
was
no
question
on
that,
including
from
anyone
that
would
say
a
specific
one.
You
could
find
documentation
from
any
of
those
groups,
so
I
want
to
start
from
there
and
and
try
to
what
is
our
context
and
I
know
Watson
you.
You
were
actively
working
on
the
those
newer
related
ones,
but
what
what
do
we
want
to
do?
Context
and
focus
here
in
the
working
group.
D
Do
we
want
to
focus
on
moving
this
forward
as
a
a
proposal
for
the
cert
for
the
I'm?
Sorry,
not
certification,
for
the
working
group
so
that
we're
adding
it
to
that?
Can
you
open
that
Dev
CNF,
Dev,
doc,
Victor
or
Tom?
Whoever
I
think
this?
Is
your
screen
Tom
this
this
one?
D
No,
the
the
Google
Doc
and
the
in
the
working
group,
repo.
B
D
D
Whistle
yeah,
so
this
has
categories
and
areas
and,
and
then
we'd
be
adding.
You
know
best
practices
under
any
reason
or
any
area
that
we
think
is
the
most
Focus
for
it.
If,
if
this
makes
sense
for
the
categories,
but
the
idea
is
to
add
recommended
best
practices
here
and
we're
not
talking
requirements,
I
want
to
restate
this.
Some
some
folks
already
know
we're
not
saying
hard
requirements.
Everyone
must
meet
every
best
practice
that
is
listed
here.
This
is
a
guide
as
recommendations
for
people
to
follow.
The
CNF
certification
is
a
separate
thing.
D
The
scene
of
separate
certification
would
be
looking
towards
best
practices
that
are
listed
here
and
going
well.
Here's
some
that
we
are
listing
in
the
certification.
If
we
have
different
levels
of
the
certification,
then
some
of
the
best
practice,
we
may
say
are
essential,
which
are
strong
recommendations
or
and
get
maybe
weighted
more
in
if
you're
following
them
or
not,
and
then
some
are
going
to
be
bonus.
D
D
Thank
you,
Victor.
Can
you
take
over
the
screen
share.
D
That
was
that's
really
a
point
in
the
working
group
coming
together
and
talking
about
what
are
the
challenges?
What
are
the
use
cases
related
for
context
and
then
what
can
we
say
are
best
practices
to
solve
those
Cloud
native
and
kubernetes
Native,
best
practices
that
we
were
saying
and
would
recommend
for
the
community
to
follow.
D
A
Okay,
for
me,
this
particular
proposal
seems
to
be
related
with
with
the
microservice
area.
I,
don't
know
if
you
have
a
place
to
put
it
so.
A
Yeah
I
know
that
they
are
processing
different
ways
to
implement
it,
but
I
guess
like
it
definitely
makes
the
manage
of
microservices
easier.
A
B
C
I
guess
Taylor
as
well:
I
I,
think
I
I
agree
with
what
everything
everything
Taylor
just
said.
I
mean
I
think
that
it
just
feels
like
this
is
a
best
practice
proposal.
I
agree,
it
probably
goes
under
microservices
I
think
it
just
you
know:
I
don't
want
to
say
it
got
derailed,
but
maybe
I
mean
there's
probably
a
way
for
us
to
handle
that
when
we
have
questions
that
sort
of
take
the
take
it
you
know,
causes
the
best
practice
to
take
a
turn
or
or
sort
of
the.
C
The
comments
take
a
turn
on
the
on
the
on
the
proposal
just
to
bring
it
back
to
this
is
a
best
practice
proposal.
So
I
guess
it's.
We
don't
have
to
worry
about
certification
or
anything
like
that
and
I.
Think
that's
pretty
clear
to
me.
So
I
think
it's
just
a
question
of
how
we
take
this
now
too.
At
what
point
does
this
become
a
best
practice?
Do
we
all
give
it
a
looks
good
to
me
or
what
is
it
that
we
need
to
do
to
get
to
that
state?.
D
Yes
agreed
this
proposal,
you
know
I
open
this
issue,
so
this
was
when
I
opened
this.
It
was
for
putting
forward
a
best
practice
in
the
working
group.
I've
added
a
comment
in
the
Google
doc.
I
want
to
put
one
I
got
to
fix
my
login
here
again
on
GitHub,
but
I'm,
going
to
add
one
into
this
issue.
If
we're
going
to
do
something
for.
D
This
CNS
certification,
let's
open
a
different
issue
for
that
all
right.
Let's
dig
into
this
just
from
a
best
practice
and.
D
I,
don't
know
about
responding,
live
for
anybody
that
had
I've
just
saw
Anne's,
I
hadn't
even
seen
the
message
until
today,
so
but
anyone
else
has
felt
for
you
to
talk
and
what's
not
to
ask
if
you
can
just
give
feedback
not
on
on
the
Ian
stuff,
unless
you
want
to,
but
the
general
reason
this
was
a
best
practice.
I
know
that
maybe
link
the
microservice
drop,
a
link
to
the
microservice
article
that
you
worked
on
and
which
has
a
lot
of
references
to
other
people.
D
B
A
A
If
this
idea
is
it
does
it's
not
making
sense,
that's
fine,
but
I,
guess
even
in
that
case
again
we
have
to
document
and
say
why
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
have
it,
but
maybe
like
an
anti-patter
or
something
like
that,
and
if
this
doesn't
make
sense
like
with
several
exceptions
or
like
something
to
consider
also,
we
need
to
document
it.
So
that's,
basically,
my
idea,
like
I,
cannot
refuse
any
any
of
the
things
that
has
been
discussed
here.
A
All
of
these
are
very
valid
points,
even
even
when
I
remember
like
we
received
like
a
feedback
in
LinkedIn
someone
also
pointing
or
like
saying
something
about
this
particular
thing.
So
it's
nice,
like
a
it's
great,
to
receive
this
kind
of
attention
and
and
different
opinions,
but
again
like
I
guess.
A
E
D
A
E
Okay,
all
right
see
ya,
yeah,
going
I,
think
it's
interesting
or
it's
useful
or
even
mandatory
to
when
you're
talking
about
architectural
decisions,
you
should
kind
of
put
forward
the
trade-offs.
That's
really
what
we're
trying
to
to
do
and
the
trade-offs
here
are
from
what
what
I
can
tell
there's
a
performance
trade-off
versus?
B
E
That's
really
all
of
the
arguments
go
under
that
I
would
so,
when
you're
able
to
separate
all
that
you
have
deployability
and
your
logging
reasoning
and
all
of
these
other
things
that
come
into
play.
I
would
say
that
that
is
the
only
reason
why
this
is
even
a
consideration
is
because
of
the
performance
requirements
of
Network
and
network
functions.
E
E
But
what's
another
interesting
thing
is
one
of
the
critiques
of
the
the
article
is
actually
saying
we're
not
going
far
enough
like
how
can
you
possibly
think
that
you
would
need
to
even
worry
about
putting
more
than
one
or
separating
the
concerns,
and
by
container
you
have
pods,
so
you
can
have
multiple
containers.
The
person
didn't
even
understand
the
article,
so
everyone
in
even
more
my
position
in
the
article
is
that
oh
no,
we
have
to
worry
about
low,
latency
and
all
this
stuff.
E
So
here's
some
things
that
you
can
do
to
try
to
work
within
the
system
like
in
your
process,
communication
that
will
increase
the
between
processes
and
all
of
this,
so
that
that's
kind
of
the
high
level,
I
would
say
I
would
say
for
Ian.
He
probably
needs
to
read
the
article,
because
he's
I
mean
there's
some
things
that
he's
saying
then
are
we
talking
about
only
one
process
per
container?
No
we're
talking
about
process
types.
E
These
types
of
things
I
also
address
that
there's
new
scheduler,
provisioning
or
I
guess
configuration
for
kubernetes
that
can
allow
you
to
do
certain
things
that
before
it
couldn't
so
there's
lots
of
things
there,
but
I'd
like
to
see
more
on
the
performance
side
from
the
network
from
the
Telecommunications.
A
So
so,
what's
on
the
the
example
that
you
you
provide,
I
mean
it's
kind
of
very
radical,
like
I
mean
obviously
red
silver
like
database
from
the
front
end.
It's
like
very
obvious.
A
A
A
I
mean
even
here.
For
me,
like
I,
mean
it's
better
like
that
I'm
in
favor
to
separate
this
sign
of
process
types
in
different
containers,
but.
A
Well,
anyway,
like
I'm,
also
like
in
favor
of
like,
like
not
trying
to
rewrite
and
having
everything
like
like
trying
to
use
like
a
additional
process
manager
instead
of
a
container.
So
do
you
think
that
we
have
others?
Those
particular
use
cases
where,
like
I
mean
it's
not
clear
like
or
the
the
banters
to
to
separate
them,
a
catch
portion
versus.
A
E
So,
are
you
saying
that
in
the
example
of
using
a
cache
separate
from
the
let's,
whatever
functional
application
process
that
you're
doing
yeah,
that's
a
bad
example
or
you're
saying
that
that's
a
more
realistic
example
yeah.
A
I
guess
that
that's
more
realistic
example
like,
or
at
least
a
little
name,
a
little
bit
more
hard
to
to
distinguish
the
the
separation.
B
A
The
benefits,
so
how
can
we
address
those
particular
cases
like
or
definitely
we
have
a
a
better
like
a
performance
in
favor
of
Maybe,
architectonic
design
or
whatever.
E
E
Right
so
I
would
just
say
that
if
that
functional
cache,
so
that's
one
process
has
a
life
cycle
reasons
to
restart
all
of
these
things
that
are
different
than
the
actual
application.
Let's
say
the
other
process,
that's
inside
of
the
container,
then
you've
got
a
trade-off.
You
got
a
problem.
E
The
decision
to
make
now.
Why
not
have
it
in
another
container?
Well,
someone
would
say
well
in
order
to
reference
it
I
need
to
go
out
to
the
network.
No,
you
can
use
inter-process
communication.
You
don't
have
to
go
out
to
the
network
that
still
works
within
this
environment
that
we're
talking
about
another
thing:
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
I
think
sometimes
people
for
whatever
reason,
they're
calling
threads
a
process
so.
B
E
The
thread
is
not
a
process.
New
threads
is
not
what
we're
talking
about
do
all
the
threads.
You
want
you're
going
to
do
shared
memory,
do
whatever
you
want
inside
of
fine,
but
we're
talking
about
total
processes.
So
we're
talking
about
execution
and
memory
isolated
from
each
other.
That's
two
processes.
E
E
For
some
reason:
Within
These
examples,
someone
is
saying:
I
want
to
start
up
a
new
process,
a
new
OS
process,
I
want
to
tell
operating
system
startup,
allocate
new
memory
isolated
and
all
that
and
start
it
over
there.
But
inside
of
this
container,
for
what
reason?
That's?
What
we're
trying
to
figure
out
trying
to
find
out
real
examples
of
that
on?
Why
you
would
do
that
and.
E
E
You
want
more
speed,
that's
again,
it's
a
trade-off
again
so,
but
you're
handling.
All
of
that
within
one
one.
Pod.
A
Yeah
also,
now
that
you
mentioned
about
security,
like
I
mean
one
process
can
have
different
security
requirements
versus
another
one
right
like
a
for
example.
Your
application
maybe
requires
certain
privilege
that
maybe
the
cash
portion
doesn't
need
it
like,
or
they
need
a
completely
different
set
of
permissions.
A
So
also
like,
like
managing
the
security
permissions
like
for
every
single
process,
it's
like
a
different
if
we
want
to
follow
like
the
less
privilege
best
practice
that
we
create
yeah,
I,
guess
like
the
best
way
to
do
it,
is
isolating
the
process
types
and
and
manage
their
permissions
per
process
type.
Instead
of
like
having
multiple
processes
having
all
the
the
privilege,
I
think
so,.
E
B
E
Level
security,
which
is
multiple
containers
for
five
and
then
there's
also
container
level
right,
so
scalability,
scaling,
One,
processor
process
type,
is
easier
to
reason
about
and
then
scaling
multiple
types.
This
can
be
for
completely
for
complexity
reasons,
so
one
process
type
is
harder
to
scale
than
multiple
process
types
or
because
the
rate
of
change
is
different,
but
is
different,
so
one
process
needs
to
be
increased
based
on
different
conditions
than
other
processes,
so
again,
scalability
for
your
that
example
of
the
cash
versus
the
application
in
the
same
container.
Okay,
we
need
to.
E
We
want
to
scale
up
the
cash.
We
need
more
processes
for
the
cash.
Is
it
hard-coded
to
one
process,
or
can
you
increase
it
remember
as
far
as
Target
talking
about
cloud
nativeness
and
all
of
this
one
of
the
arguments
is
we
want
to
develop
things
so
that
they
can
scale
up
so
by
increasing
processes
or
pause
for
whatever
and
those
different
processes
have
different
arguments
or
rationale
or
conditions
for
scaling
up?
E
What's
the
what's
the?
What
are
the
implications
of
that?
You
need
that?
All
of
that
is
should
be
configuration
declared
based
off
of
the
process,
but
if
they're,
both
inside
of
the
container
you're,
essentially
writing
your
own
orchestrator
and
having
to
do
all
that
yourself
right
so
again,
complexity,
reasons
or
or
what
have
you?
So
that's
a
scalability
argument.
You
have
testability
it's
easier
to
test
when
the
processes
are
separate
deployability.
E
So
when
the
process
is
binary
and
dependencies
are
all
deployed
in
container,
the
deployment
is
coarse,
grained
and
relative
to
the
rate
of
change
of
the
binary
and
the
container
But
A
fine
grain
deployment
relative
to
the
rate
of
change
of
the
other
processes
and
their
dependencies.
This
makes
deployments
adjustable
to
where,
when
a
change
happens
in
your
dependency
tree
instead
of
redeploying
everything
in
a
lot
of
stuff,
so
essentially
they're
saying
is:
if
you,
when
you
have
a
process,
you
can
have
a
process.
E
That's
all
all
of
it
is
fun
from
one
binary
in
your
example
like
having
a
cache
versus
application,
that's
two
different
binary
and
so
those
all
have
their
own
dependencies
and
everything
behind
them,
but
now
you're
having
to
deploy
them
in
lockstep
with
each
other.
Guess
what,
when
you
have
a
security
deployment
or
patch
for
one
of
them,
you've
got
to
redeploy
both
instead
of
it
having
been
per
container?
E
That
makes
sense.
So
composability
is
another
reason.
Telemetry
someone
post
it
in
here
it's
easier
for,
instead
of
having
your
Logs
interleaved
with
each
other
based
off
the
processes,
they're
separate
and
you
can,
you
can
easily
reason
about
them
per
container
and
as
far
as
orchestration
I
would
say,
orchestration
is
the
number
one
you're
writing
your
own
sophistic.
E
What
I
call
a
sophisticated
supervisor,
something
that
knows
when
to
restart
the
order
to
restart
all
of
this
other
stuff
inside
of
the
container
you're,
essentially
rewriting
kubernetes,
and
it's
declarative
configuration
all
that
stuff
inside
of
it.
I
just
don't
see
how
I
know
old
school
programming,
that's
what
you
did,
but
you
know
this
is
we're
trying
to
get
away
from
that
trying
to
have
agnostic,
orchestrators,
so
I'll
set
up
and
let
people
comment.
A
S
well,
basically,
what
I?
What
I
was
reading
about
that
is
so
so
I
mean
yeah.
I'm
agree
with
you
like
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
to
repaint
the
wheel.
I
can
try
to
put
everything
there,
foreign,
so
probably
the
recommendation,
besides
just
one
single
process
type
per
container,
was
to
making
sure
that
your
application
is
managing
properly
the
the
OS
finals.
A
So
I
guess
like
it's
something
to
to
just
to
keep
in
mind
as
a
developer
like
okay,
if
the
OS
is
going
to
raise
this
particular
signal,
I
need
to
catch
them
and
propagate
properly
to
the
to
the
orchestra,
which
in
this
case,
is
very
like
to
manage
everything
properly
keyword
methods,
like
not
saying,
has
to
be
this.
A
This
internal
supervisors,
so
probably
that
that
could
be
only
just
to
consider
like
a
or
or
as
part
of
the
best
practice
like.
Okay,
once
you
separate
these
things
in
in
in
one
process
per
container,
also
considered
like
that
the
process
I
know
properly.
If,
if
not,
this
is
going
to
you're
going
to
lose
some
of
the
capabilities.
But
probably
this
is
something
a
little
bit
different
or
maybe
another
best
practice
to
be
considered
but
associated
with
this
particular
case.
I
think
so.
E
Yeah
yeah
I
addressed
those
in
the
paper
too.
You
have
to
do
those
as
well,
it
is
in
either
or
you
have
to
do
so.
Those
aren't
sophisticated
what
I'm
calling
a
sophisticated
supervisor,
even
though
it's
a
super
supervisor,
D
run
it
money
and
all
that
stuff
like
that,
those
will
do
two
things.
One
of
them
is
platform.
They
will
do
proper
signaling.
E
E
B
E
What's
at
stake
here,
so
you
need
to
handle
graceful
termination.
You
will
have
a
serious
problem.
So
again
we
can
go
off
into
the
rabbit
hole
here.
Also
you
have
things
that
handle
State
like
writings
of
hard
drives
and
all
that
stuff
you
know,
and
then
you
have
things
that
don't
do
that.
Having
that
all
interleaved
that's
another
problem,
but
now
we're
not
talking
about
that
so
handling
signals,
So,
Graceful
termination,
having
the
capability
of
doing
that.
E
That
would
be
the
pin.
One
needs
to
be
a
process
manager,
something
capable
of
passing
on
signals,
so
supervisor
D
run
it
monitor
dominant
S6.
Those
types
of
things
like
you
talk
about
in
the
paper.
That's
one
problem.
Another
problem
is
zombies,
handling,
zombies,
pin
one
needs
to
be
smart
about
when
the
process
dies
that
it
doesn't
just
stay
out
there.
It
needs
to
run
a
Check.
It
basically
needs
to
do
a
call.
E
I
forget
the
name
off
the
top
of
my
head
to
to
kill
the
process
and
to
remove
it
from
the
pit
table.
Essentially
what
what
are
the
implications
of
that
there's?
A
finite
amount
of
pids
that
are
available
and
you
will
blow
up
the
system
if
you
do
not,
that's
the
that's.
What
are
the
implications
of
having
zombies?
E
This
is
those
are
two
things
in
addition
to.
You
should
only
run.
You
know
one
process
type,
so
you
need
to
do
these
things
most
programming
languages
are
pretty
good
about
handling
signals.
So,
if
you
were
to
run
Java
Azure
paid
one,
it
can
handle
signals
and
handle
all
of
its
processes,
and
all
that
now
will
it
handle
the
zombies
out
of
the
box.
What
we're
finding
is
oftentimes?
E
No,
sometimes
yes,
sometimes
no,
so
those
are
things
where
having
a
pig,
one
that
handles
zombies,
that
you
know
handle
zombies
correctly
is
a
good
thing.
E
So
yeah
you
need
to
do
these
as
well,
and
it's
recommended
in
the
paper,
and
you
know,
as
an
aside,
we
have
these
now
as
part
of
in
the
test
Suite
checking
to
see,
if
you
have
these
top-end
pin
one
something
within
this
list.
Also,
do
you
handle
zombies?
E
We
actually
create
a
zombie
attach
it
to
your
process
and
then
send
kill
it,
and
then,
if
it
doesn't
get
erased
from
the
pig
we
know
you
don't
handle
zombies,
the
fun
fact
a
lot
of
containers
out
there
are
not
handling
zombies
properly.
E
Even
kubernetes
itself
had
problems,
problems
with
zombies,
scds
would
say
and
then
handling.
Signaling
I
have
examples
in
the
paper
of
get
Labs.
Very
subtle
and
Insidious
areas
happen
when
you
don't
handle
signaling
very
hard
to
trap
track
down
so
yeah.
All
of
this
by
the
way
is
exacerbated
when
you
have
more
than
one
process
type
work
made
worse.
A
Well,
we
are
reaching
them
the
top
of
the
hour,
so
I
don't
know
if
someone
else
has
any
any
additional
comment
on
this
or
what
could
be
the
the
action
that
we
can
take
on
this
particular
topic?
Can
we
start
writing.
E
D
Victor
Dewey,
do
you
know
if
we
have
a
draft
document
for
this?
One
I
was
trying
to
look
for
it.
I
know
we
do.
We
started
creating
Google
draft
docs,
but
I
didn't
find
a
link
for
this
one
and
I'm
I'm,
trying
to
see
if
we
have
it
somewhere,
but
that
would
be
the
what
I
would
suggest.
D
Let's
write
it
up
like
we
were
doing
for
the
other
practices
as
a
draft,
so
that
we
can
see
I
think
some
of
of
the
problem
with
why
this
is
sitting
so
long
is
the
content
is
linked
out
to
other
places
and
they
would
have
everyone
would
have
to
go.
Read
like
this
article
that
Watson
was
talking
about.
There
was
a
lot
of
other
content.
D
This
idea
of
separating
concerns.
That's
a
pre-cloud
native
people
talk
about
concerns
as
far
as
separation
concerns
for
a
long
time.
So
if
we
can
take
all
of
that,
including
like
going
into
the
article
where
Watson
just
went
through
and
talked
about
specific
things
that
are
addressing
these
questions
and
write
it
up
into
the
proposal,
I
think
it'll
be
easier
for
folks
to
come
in
and
see
how
we're
recommending
it.
D
So
that's
what
I'd
say
we
we
focus
on
right
up
a
Draft
Source
it
from
content
available
this
article
and
other
places
and
then
I'll
link
that
into
this
issue,
and
then
at
that
point
we
can,
you
know,
put
it
forward
if,
if
we
have
enough
in
the
draft
or
when
we
have
enough
in
the
draft
and
then
we
can
put
in
a
pull
request
to
to
add
it
as
a
best
practice
recommendation.
A
A
D
A
Any
has
any
other
particular
comment
or
like
I
I
will
invite
you
to
your
thoughts
in
this
particular
issue.
That
way
we
can
and.
A
All
right,
Taylor,
you're,
going
to
say
something
else
like
I
just
interrupt
you,
oh.
D
It's
it's
fine,
I'm
I
didn't
find
everywhere
that
I'm
like
and
I'm,
not
finding
the
a
draft,
so
I'm
I'm
gonna,
create
one
over
in
the
working
group.
Folder,
okay
and
I'll
share
the
link.
I'll
add
it
to
I'll,
add
the
link
into
the
GitHub
and
then
anyone
that
wants
to
help
you
can
jump
right
in
the
document
or
ping
me
on
slack
up
for
a
working
session
as
well,
where
we
can
focus
on
this.
A
All
right:
well,
the
next
meeting
is
going
to
be
canceled,
I
guess
so
we
will
see
you
in
two.