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From YouTube: CNCF Research End User Group: Cartografos WG
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B
C
Yeah,
absolutely
thank
you
danielle,
so
danielle
and
myself,
along
with
john
foreman,
are
co-chairs
of
the
cartographers
working
group
and
we
started
to
collate
the
model
also
with
with
robert
glenn,
also
who
who's
been
collaborating
with
us
also.
So
we
formed
the
working
group
approximately
a
year
ago
just
to
start
working
on
a
cloud
major
majority
model,
I'm
based
in
london,
danielson
and
others
from
the
u.s
yep.
C
Okay.
So
why?
Why
have
a
maturity
model?
This
came
out
of
a
out
of
something
that
we
had
all
independently
observed,
which
is
that
we
have
the
cloud
native
landscape
and
the
cncf
also
has
the
cloud
native
trail
map
and
one
of
the
first
challenges
for
anybody
encountering
the
landscape
at
first
glance
is
first
off
it's
a
real
eye
test,
and
then.
Secondly,
where
do
I
start?
What's
my
path?
C
B
So
our
just
for
an
overview
of
the
maturity
model,
so
we
have
five
different
stages
that
we
so
when
we
were
coming
together.
We
took
these
different
models,
looked
at
them
and
was
like
okay.
How
do
we
break
this
up
and
make
sense
of
this,
and
so
we
came
to
the
realization
that
there
were
kind
of
five
main
stages,
and
this
is
what
this
represents
and
it's
you
know
the
first
stage
is
when
you're
building
out
your
environment,
then
you're
learning
how
to
run
it
and
you're
figuring
out
how
to
move
to
production.
B
Then
stage
three
you're
scaling
four.
Now
that
you've
figured
out
okay
scale,
you're,
going
to
go
back
and
revisit
things
and
look
to
improve
some
of
the
decisions
you
made
early
on
and
then
in
five.
It's
all
about
optimization
and
like
what
tweaks
you
can
get
for
measuring
and
your
metrics
and
monitoring,
and
all
of
that
so
within
each
five
stages
or
for
each
five
stage.
We
also
broke
it
down
to
four
key
themes,
so
people
process
policy
and
technology,
so
the
people
theme
looks
at
well.
B
What
do
you
need
to
do
culturally
at
your
organization?
In
each
phase
of
the
model,
so
you
know
in
the
beginning,
you
need
to
get
the
people
on
board
to
decide
like
yeah,
I'm
I
want
to
do
cloud
native
I'm
bought
in,
and
you
know
you
need
to
then,
as
you
move
through,
like
change
the
structure
of
your
teams,
maybe
look
at
how
who's
leading
adopt
to
make
sure
you're
adopting
this
devops
culture
etc.
B
B
And
you
know
how
can
you
automate
this
and
then
technology
is
really
where
it
we're
suggesting
like?
Okay,
here
are
the
tools
you
can
use
now
in
the
technology
section
we
have
decided,
we
would
only
include
cncf
graduated
projects
or
incubating
projects,
so
we
did
not
include
any
sandbox
projects.
Just
because
you
know
that's
where
people
are
trialing
it
we,
you
know,
we
don't
know
if
it's
gonna
make
the
cut
in
the
end,
and
we
wanted
to
make
sure
we
had
a
clear
cutoff
point.
B
We
also
don't
talk
about
any
commercial
software,
so
you
have
to
be
open
source.
You
have
to
be
in
the
cncf
to
be
included
now.
What
we're
doing
today
or
at
the
moment
is
we're
going
out
to
each
of
the
tags
within
the
cncf
and
looking
for
their
expertise
around
the
technology,
but
also
like,
are
there
areas
in
people
process
and
policy
where
they
could
enhance
that?
B
But
in
the
technology
technology
section
looking
at
recommendations
for
the
technologies
you
need
to
be
looking
at
and
that
may
include
some
of
the
projects,
but
they
may
also
just
include
some
themes
around.
You
should
be
looking
for
software
to
help
you
with
this
that
and
the
other.
So
we
did.
You
know
the
four
of
us
who
put
this
together
spent
a
lot
of
time
looking
at
what
to
include
what
not
to
include-
and
we
know
that
you
know
four
of
us
cannot
completely
cover
the
full
technology,
ins
and
outs.
B
I
can
share
them
in
the
chat
in
a
moment,
but
we
have
a
github
repo,
where
we
have
the
the
prologue
of
explaining
how
we
went
about
this.
What
we
did
some
prerequisites,
so
we
basically
looked
at
it
and
said:
look
you
have
to
you
know,
don't
come
to
this
unless
you've
decided
cloud
native
is
the
way
to
go,
and
we
gave
you
some.
B
You
know
when
is
the
right
time
around
the
key
for
themes
and
then
for
each
one
of
the
areas
we
have
like
the
people
section
which
gives
you
okay,
what
do
you
need
to
do
at
each
level?
So
here's
your
high
level
overview
for
people
and
then
we
broke
this
out
into
themes
as
we
build
the
model
so
like
there
was
an
organizational
change.
What
you
have
to
do
with
your
teams,
how
you
need
to
incorporate
developer
agility,
upskilling
developers,
security,
etc?
We
did
mention
some
of
the
cncn
certificates
you
can
have
here.
D
B
A
B
No
problem
so
in
the
process
again
and
you'll,
see
like
some
of
these
are
weighted
heavier
than
other,
depending
on
the
content
we
had
and
what
we're
doing
so
process
follows
it:
we
go
through
audit,
logs,
cicd
change,
control,
etc,
and
then
policy
and
I'll
just
click
on
technology.
To
give
you
an
overview
of
that,
so
you
know
we
put
up
front
that
it
is
only
graduate
or
incubating
projects.
B
We
give
you
an
overview.
We
talk
about
infrastructure,
application
patterns,
refactoring,
container
runtime,
etc,
etc,
etc.
So-
and
this
is
where
you
know,
we
put
it
in
github,
because
we
want
people
to
contribute.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
it
is
useful
to
the
end
user
community
because
we
want
it
to
be
guidance
to
help
when
you
are
navigating
this
journey
and
that
that's
essentially
our
quick,
very
quick
summary
of
the
cloud
native
maturity
model
we
didn't
want
to.
B
C
A
I
think
one
one
thing
that
I
was
thinking
while
seeing
your
presentation
before
and
now
as
well
is
like
navigating
towards
a
goal.
I
guess,
like
the
different
different
people
will
have
different
needs,
of
which
components
they
need
and
how
they
fit
together
for
the
purpose
that
they
want
to
to
achieve,
but
like
for
for
is
the.
Is
it
dedicated
per
community?
Or
do
you
see
more
like
a
general
guidance.
C
We
would
see
at
the
moment
at
the
level
that
it's
at
it's
aimed
at
the
general
community
because
and
part
of
the
challenges
is
that
we're
well
aware
that
every
industry
is
different,
so
the
needs
that
you
have
within
research
will
be
quite
different
to
the
needs
of
of
finance,
potentially,
depending
on
what
they're
working
on.
I
am
aware
there
are
similarities
actually
with
hpc
there,
so
so
that
that's
one
of
the
things.
C
However,
one
of
the
intentions
of
the
model,
also,
is
that,
while
it
is,
is
general,
it
is
a
resource
that
is
there
and
potentially
should
you
wish
to
fork
it
and
or
create
create
your
own
model
that
is
better
suited
to
specific
parts
of
research.
Then
we
really
encourage
that,
and
indeed
in
turn,
we
would
really
welcome.
B
And
I
definitely
see
it
as
an
opportunity
for
different
groups
to
say
we
created
this
supporting
paper.
This
supportingly,
like
we
created
this
content
out
here
to
help,
and
so
we
link
to
it
throughout
the
cloud
native
maturity
model.
So
if
you're
saying
we
really
think
this
should
be
included,
we
can
highlight
it
and
go.
This
is
a
supporting
resource
which
you
should
read
because
it
talks
about
acts.
So
we
want
to
use
it
as
a
way
to
cross-polling
pollinate
all
of
the
like
deep,
rich
content
that
everybody
is
producing
in
their
groups.
A
B
And
that
was
our
big
takeaway,
because
we
could
have
done
a
maturity
model
on
technology
and
just
called
it
a
day.
But
when
we
looked
at
it,
it
was
like
there's
more
to
this
whole
space,
because
you
are
changing
you're,
changing
everything
to
go
cloud
native,
maybe
not
everything!
That's
extreme,
but
you're
changing
a
lot.
So
you
know
make
sure
you're
thinking
about
these
things
as
you
go
along
the
journey.
C
F
Anyone
else,
just
at
what
point
in
the
process
would
you
advise
people
to
connect
with
your
group
or
I'm
still
not
quite
sure,
about
the
interaction
with
the
cartographers
group
and
what
that's
better,
because
we
we
have
a
project
that
we're
signing
the
sandbox.
But
at
what
point
reach
out
to
do?
We
go
to
meetings
like
what's
the
relationship.
B
So
we
don't
want
to
cause
more
work
for
your
group,
so
we're
happy
to
join
meetings
where
it
makes
sense
for
you.
But
in
addition,
we
meet
every
other
week
on
a
tuesday
at
one
eastern
and
we
have.
We
have
a
bevy
page,
two
on
it.
So
that's
where
we're
talking
about
next
steps.
What
do
we
want
to
do?
How
do
we
want
to
get
people
involved
so
you're
welcome
to
join
our
calls,
we're
happy
to
come
back.
B
We
we
have
one
tag,
who's
going
away,
think
going
through
all
of
the
content
and
they're
going
to
come
back
and
either
comment
via
you
know,
make
some
pull
requests
via
github
and
trying
to
update
the
content
and
that's
how
they
want
to
do
it,
but
we're
completely
flexible
in
that
we
want
contributions
and
we
want
additional
people
to
join
our
group,
but
at
the
same
time
we
don't
want
to
make
more
work
for
anyone.
So
simon,
do
you
want
to
add
anything
to
that.
C
C
A
Yeah,
I
think
this.
This
is
really
like
something
that
we
should
look
at
to
build
like
danielle
was
saying
to
take
it
as
a
baseline
and
build
on
top
and
then
see
where
we
could
contribute.
I
think
one
one
thing
I
was
just
checking
the
agenda
from
the
past
and
we
do
have
quite
a
lot
of
projects
that
come
into
our
agenda
that
are
in
early.
B
E
Right,
matthew,
yeah,
it's
just
have
just.
I
guess
one
thing
I
understand
like
whom
I'm
talking
to,
but
is
that
in
discussing
any
cloud
native
technologies,
it's
as
a
means
to
manage
existing
local
resources.
So
there's
a
lot
of
existing
perspectives
of
cloud
is
over
there
rather
than
local
here
and
also
a
matter
of
it's.
I
have
bare
metal
slurm
running.
E
Why
do
I
need
to
build
up
all
of
this
additional
architecture
and
it's
you
wave
at
them
that
cncf
landscape
and
they
go
nope
nope
that
this
is
a
waste
of
my
time
due
to
complexity
and
whatnot,
and
is
that
how
it's
how
you
folks
have
pitched
this?
As
you
know,
you
must
fully
transition
into
cncf
methodologies
and
whatnot.
E
Is
that
do
you
have
any
recommendations
on
not
how
to
not
scare
people
off
it's
just
because,
there's
a
you
know
a
lot
of
work
and
some
right
skepticism
and
it's
with
regards
to
using
some
of
these
technologies.
You
know
why
not
use
openshift
openstack,
rather
than
going.
You
know,
kubernetes
management
of
stuff.
You
know.
B
B
I
just
wouldn't
necessarily
look
at
every
single
technology
project
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
did
recognize
in
this
is
that
you
know
you
might
take
one
application
and
you're
containerizing
and
you're
adopting
cloud
even
you're,
doing
all
that,
but
the
rest
that
you're
using
bare
metal
you're
on
prem.
What
not
you're
only
doing
that
for
one
part,
so
your
maturity
might
be
at
level
five
for
an
app
and
then
you
know
the
right
you're
doing
everything
else,
so
you
can
be
at
different
stages
of
the
model
depending
on
what
you're
doing.
B
But
it's
it.
You
know
it's
guidelines,
it's
helpful!
It's
not
supposed
to
be
prescriptive,
because
if
you
read
this
and
you
go
oh,
this
is
exactly
the
way
the
cncf
says
to
do
it
like
everyone's
going
to
debate
that,
like
you,
might
read
it
matthew
and
go
I.
I
would
do
this
way
earlier
and
you
know
ricardo.
B
You
might
be
like
no,
no,
it's
in
exactly
the
right
spot
and
that's
you
know
we're
we're
trying
to
be
helpful
here
and
give
some
guidelines
and
guidance,
but-
and
I
think
that
the
kind
of
other
point
is,
if
you
are
not
bought
in
to
doing
any
cloud
native,
you
probably
aren't
going
to
need
this
maturity
model
right.
There
is
a
prerequisite,
our
prologue
that
says,
you've
decided
as
an
organization
that
this
is
the
right
thing
for
you.
F
I
think
I
think,
actually
matthew.
The
that
question
you
bring
up
is
a
question
we
should
talk
about
as
part
of
this
group.
Just
in
general,
you
know
the
the
high
performance
computing
back
scheduling
universe
has
skepticism
about
kubernetes,
just
like
you're
saying,
but
that's
yeah
to
daniel's
point
like
th.
F
This
tool
of
cartographers
is
is
maybe,
after
you've
decided
to
to
about
the
bullet
and
go
into
it,
but
but
we
should
have
that
discussion
separately
about
you
know,
there's
all
this
entrenched
opinions
about
how
you
should
do
batch
scheduling
and
how
you
should
do.
How
do
you
set
up
clusters
for
research
and
you're
right
people?
Look
at
kubernetes
and
get
scared
off
so
so.
E
My
apologies
for
asking
a
sort
of
meta
question
in
a
in
a
guidelines.
Talk,
but
is
this
to
be
like
you
know,
I
I'm
interested
in
praying
playing
around
with
the
systems
as
in
investigating
certain
things,
but
is
that
it's
a
matter
of
like
okay?
It's
and
I
have
no
opinion
on
you
know
what
goes
where.
Maybe
it's
in
the
overall
guidelines
thing,
but
as
I'm
just
sort
of
thinking,
okay
yeah
some
of
this
might
work,
but
it's
always
a
okay,
always
in
the
back
of
my
head,
how
the
hell
do
I?
E
B
B
Is
that
what
the
leaders
want
and
how
do
you
communicate
to?
You
know
your
ceo,
your
cfo,
that
doing
this
is
going
to
help
move
the
business
forward,
and
so
you
know
I
can.
I
can
dig
out
that
blog
and
shoot
you
the
link
to
it,
but
that
is
definitely
something
we
want
to
get
into
the
maturity
model
in
the
next
iteration.
C
C
For
example,
if
you've
got
a
an
on-premise
hpc
cluster,
that's
on
bare
metal
and
works
incredibly
well,
some
of
the
other.
Some
of
the
points
that
we've
attempted
to
address
are
things
like
security
and
around
policy
and
what's
running
on
the
cluster,
how
how
am
I
ensuring
that
only
the
workload
that
should
be
on
there
is
there
and
that
I'm
not
bitcoin
mining
inadvertently
on
there
so
also
are
also
around
potentially,
what
processes
can
we
undertake
to
speed
up
releases
on
onto
that
platform?
C
So,
while
the
the
platform
itself
may
be
on
premise,
maybe
within
an
organization
and
not
be
within
a
cloud
service
provider
and
may
not
even
use
kubernetes
itself,
it
might
open
up
a
space
for
for
the
further
discussion
around
housing
policy.
Looking
how
do
I
start?
How
do
I
move
down
down
that
journey
and
how
can
I
provide
the
insurance
so
we're
not
spending
money
unnecessarily
yeah.
C
So
that's
an
element
where
perhaps
the
other
three
areas
may
benefit
organizations
as
well
makes
you
working
with
a
with
an
organization
migrating
a
grid
actually
at
this
point
in
time
to
from
off-premise
to
cloud
service
providers
and
undertaking
refactoring
as
well.
So
it's
been
a
really
fa.
You
know
to
to
run
on
kubernetes
and
that's
been
a
fascinating
exercise
to
be
working
on
so
yeah
appreciate
that.
D
B
Simon
and
I
can
add
in
our
chat
our
emails,
so
if
you
do
have
questions
afterwards
or
want
to
follow
up
with
us
and
again,
I
put
all
the
links
in
the
chat
as
well
to
the
content.
So
if
you
review
it-
and
you
want
to
get
involved
with
our
group
or
you
want
us
to
come
back
or
you
want
to
talk
about
next
steps
one-on-one,
we
are
happy
to
do
that.
D
D
D
D
Cool
okay!
Well,
thank
you
very
much
everyone
else.
I
don't
know
if
there's
much
more,
we've
got
to
cover
today.
We
could
just
quick
note
that
we'll
be
back
here.
I
guess.
Let
me
have
a
quick
look
at
the
date.
It's
going
to
be
on
the
second
of
feb,
so
two
weeks
today
and
the
topic
is
dealing
with
deprecations.
So
all
the
various
things
in
the
latest
kubernetes
releases
and
other
things
disappearing
as
time
marches
on.
D
Good
question:
yes:
normally
we
do
normally.
I
would
do
that,
but
I
don't
have
a
laptop
today.
Unfortunately,
but
yes,
if
you
could
or
in
fact
catering,
if
you're
there.
If
you
wouldn't
mind
popping
a
link
to
the
google
doc
in
the
chat,
then
everyone
can
click
that
and
just
make
a
note
of
their
their
name
and
where
they're
from
and
then
we've
got
a
record.
That's.
D
D
D
E
Yeah,
I'm
I'm
I'm
good
with
that,
but
this
yeah
I
it's.
I
inhabit
a
it's.
As
a
software
engineering
at
a
university
centralized
group,
I
inhabit
a
weird
nether
space
between
a
bunch
of
the
computing
design
paradigms.
So
getting
some
sense
on
how
to
talk
to
people
about
different
ones
is
would
be
useful.
F
Yeah,
I
think
winning
people
over
in
the
hpc
space
is
a
complicated
process.
I
quit
jamie
and
ricardo,
and
I
are
planning
to
chat
with
some
hpc
people
in
boston
tomorrow
tomorrow,
something
like
that
and
similar
emotions,
as
you
described
from
that
community,
and
so
anyway,
it's
just
interesting
an
interesting
conversation
to
keep
on
bringing
up
in
this
group,
particularly
because
I
think
this
group
is
a
lot
of
people
like
you
who
deal
with
a
lot
of
historical
entrenched
and
working
systems,
and
should
they
move
to
kubernetes.
F
E
E
E
Was
people
should
come
to
kubecon
and
is
this
to
be
like
well
yeah,
but
it
is
also
a
matter
of
you
know:
it's
it'd
be
good
to
meet
people
where
they
are
not
necessarily
just
invite
them
to
where
you
are
already,
and
is
that
it's
I
grant
that
there
is
a
lot
of
going
and
talking
to
people
it's
about
stuff,
but
just
the
interactions
is
often
you
know
come
to
me.
I
don't
know
if
there
are
regular
like
is
there
visits
to
ics
or
isc
or
sc
for
this
research
group?
E
You
know
at
a
particular
time
or
one
of
the
or
perk
or
various
other
things.
It's
just
a
matter
of
you
know,
go
meet
the
people
where
they
are
as
well
as
invite
folks
to
come,
see
the
cool
stuff
that
you
have
in
your
garage
and
it's
it's
not
just.
You
know
disparage
the
active
efforts.
It's
just.
I
think
that
would
be
just
useful
as
well.
F
F
E
G
E
F
I
I
see
what
you're
saying
jamie
we've
never
discussed
that
as
part
of
this
working
group.
I
don't
think
have
we,
but
it
might
be
interesting
to
to
think
about
it,
we're
often
at
other
conferences,
besides
the
cncf
stuff.
So
maybe
we
should
think
about
going
as
emissaries
of
this
research
user
getting
a
booth
and
and
doing
that
kind
of
a
thing.
We've
we've
only
ever
done
that
at.
F
Right,
okay,
anyway,
I
wonder
whether
any
one
of
those
characters
can
help
us
with
funds
and
things
like
that
for
setting
up
booths
at
other
places.
We
can
get
into
those
details,
but
it's
a
good
idea,
especially
on
the
things
that
we
already
planned
to
attend
any
one
of
us
on
that
front.
Are
you
headed
to
any
of
those
things.
E
So
is
that
it's
just
been
on
my
mind
about
you
know:
how
can
I,
how
can
I
one
sell
my
meeting
outside
our
normal
bubble
and
also,
I
think
it
could
be
potentially
really
advantageous
to
just
be
melodramatic
to
go
into
enemy
territory,
yeah,
it's
and,
and
is
that
to
really
say
hey,
you
know?
No,
we
are
people
like
you.
You
know
we
have
on-premises,
we
work
with
commercial
cloud
providers.
This
is
how
we
manage
our
stuff.
E
F
Maybe
let's,
let's
keep
that
on
as
like
a
standing
item
to
keep
on
talking
about,
because
I
think
for
this
group
you
know
we
want
to
be
reaching
out
to
more
people
and
in
particular,
sort
of
interdisciplinary
realms,
because
for
this
group
in
particular,
that's
important.
So
it's
wonderful
that
you
bring
it
up.
Let's
keep
on
talking
about
it.