►
From YouTube: WG Platforms - Maturity Model Deep Dive
Description
Find the paper in development here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bP8-LQ-d41eIdQB3IC2YsncDhawpFLggql2JxwtE0XI/edit
B
A
All
right,
how's
everyone
doing,
are
you
ready
for
all
sorts
of
funness
we're
gonna
be
chatting
the
details?
The
nitty-gritty
of
the
maturity
model
just
sent
the
link
I'll
also
do
a
screen
share,
but
I
know
I
like
to
be
able
to
scroll
around
a
bit
sometime
soon,
so
I
want
to
make
sure
everyone
has
the
link
as
well.
If
that
is
helpful
to
them,.
A
A
So
yeah
so
I
have
two
hours
set
aside.
I
appreciate:
that's
quite
a
lot
of
time.
I
don't
want
anyone
who
is
here
for
an
hour
to
feel
like
they
have
been
left
in
the
dust
and
all
the
interesting
things
happen
in
the
second
hour
or
whatever
so
I'd
like
to
look
at
a
ways
that
we
can
get
coverage
during
the
first
hour.
A
Even
if
that
means
we
go
deeper
in
the
second
hour
if
people
still
want
to
be
around
for
the
second
hour
and
want
to
go
deeper
on
something
like
that,
but
I
don't
want
to
yeah.
So
that's
kind
of
my
goal
for
facilitating,
but
hi
Matt
I
like
appreciate
you
calling
out
for
first
time
hanging
out
for
the
maturity
model.
I
was
gonna
say
that
might
be
helpful
to
set
a
bit
of
stage
of
like
who's
here.
A
What
made
you
interested
in
joining
this
call
if
there's
something
in
particular,
you
want
to
to
dive
into
because
that
will
help
us
also
like
I
know.
Some
people
can't
come
for
right
at
the
beginning.
Some
people
might
have
to
leave
early
if
they
say
I
really
care
about.
Speaking
on
this
topic,
then,
we
can
try
and
prioritize
that
and
make
sure
that
we
get
people
speaking
as
they
as
they
want
so
I'm.
A
Basically,
here
as
facilitator,
that's
my
that's
how
I
view
my
role
at
this
stage
is
making
sure
that
everyone
gets
voices
heard
and
that
we
mix
our
ideas
together
to
the
point
where
we
can.
We
can
come
to
push
it
push
it
Forward,
I,
don't
think
we're
going
to
be
in
some
final
State
at
the
end
of
today's
call,
it's
more
like
push
it
one
step
forward,
get
it
a
bit
more
more
closely
with
that,
so
cool!
A
Sorry,
do
you
want
to
introduce
yourself
I
know
some
people
will
know
each
other,
but
I
think
we
should
all
do
intros.
There's
enough
new
faces.
B
Yep
I
can
start
yep,
so
my
name
is
cesarean
kansa
I
work
for
a
company
called
plan
view.
We
make
project
management,
software
and
I'm
a
senior
platform
engineer
with
yep
I've,
been
kind
of
hovering
around
this
working
group
for
the
past
like
month
and
a
half
or
so
it's
been
a
lot
of
fun,
especially
this
maturity
mile.
So
it's
a
little
bit
about
me,
pass
it
to
Matt.
C
Hi
thanks
I
met
German
prey
I'm
from
the
chaos
project.
We
do
open
source,
Community,
Health,
metrics
and
software
I'm
interested,
because
we
are
actually
also
working
with
the
to
do
group
in
our
ospo
context,
working
group,
as
well
as
with
University,
I,
suppose
and
scientific
software
communities
around
things
like
maturity
models
where
we're
setting
goals
and
then
thinking
about
the
metrics
and
metrics
models
that
we've
developed
in
chaos.
That
can
help
kind
of
speak
to
those
particular
goals.
So
here.
D
F
Hi
I'm
Marsh
I'm,
a
product
manager
at
Google,
I,
started
working
on
apogee,
doing
API
management
in
20
2009.
Oh
my
God
a
long
time
ago
and
as
devops
is
morphed
into
platform
engineering.
How
that
intersects
with
API
management
is
really
interesting
question,
and
so
there
are
two
things
that
I'm
curious
about.
F
In
particular,
one
is:
what
is
that
role
that
API
management
plays
in
platform
engineering
and
two,
both
API
management
and
platforms,
are
really
about
understanding
what
it
means
to
have
a
product
mindset
and
to
me
that
is
what
are
you
doing,
you're
trying
to
create
the
space
for
people
to
fill
right?
You
can't
force
growth.
You
can't
force
people
to
think
all
you
can
do
is
create
the
situation
where
they
can
do
those
things
and
that's
the
part
of
the
maturity
model
that
I
want
to
make
sure
it
comes
through.
Is
how
do
we?
F
F
G
G
G
For
the
naive
people
to
understand
what
the
platform
gingering
is
all
about-
and
this
is
one
of
my
actually
craze
writes
now
the
platform
engineering
platform
working
group
and
one
of
the
things
I'm
really
excited
that
Abby.
Is
he
taking
the
initiative
of
the
platform
in
charity
model
I?
Think
it's
really
really
important.
G
As
for
the
as
at
this
moment
of
now
and
we're
talking
to
a
lot
of
the
Enterprise
and
the
customer,
I
think
this
sees
either
the
lot
of
the
pain
currently
when
adopting
Technologies
in
particular,
and
there
is
so
much
in
the
cncf
landscape
and
if
we
can
give
them
a
golden
path
or
something
that
can
have
them
gain
visibility
and
an
easy
process
to
solve.
I
think
this
our
job
going
to
be
a
lot
more
easier.
So
I'm,
looking
forward
to
I
think
next
person
might
be
the
Josh
I
can
forward
to
the
Josh.
E
Sure
my
name
is
Josh
cavan,
I,
lead,
Ouija
platforms,
I
think
I've
met
most
of
you.
I
really
read
that
really
passionate
about
helping
end
users
make
the
most
of
cloud.
So
yeah
I'm
excited
to
learn.
I
feel
like
these
conversations,
the
ones
we
had
like
these
around
the
the
top
level
paper
were
I
learned
a
lot
from
them,
and
it's
impacted
me
to
this
day.
Some
of
my
thinking
so
looking
forward
to
the
thoughts
here.
H
Short
Andrew,
it's
always
hard.
Well,
my
name
is
Robert
and
I'm.
One
of
the
chairs
of
the
the
platforms
working
group
I
in
the
first
Ambassador,
our
club,
MVP
of
rashford
and
the
hospital
Ambassador
and
I
do
way
too
much
stuff,
and
for
this
you
know
I
I.
H
You
know
I'm
just
following
everyone
else's
lead
on
this
one,
but
I
I
think
it's
turning
out
really
great,
so
I
just
wanted
to
be
here
to
make
sure
that
that
continues,
I'm,
not
in
any
way
shape
or
in
doubt
that
it
will
not
be
doing
that.
But
I
just
want
to
be
part
of
this.
That's
why
I'm
here
now.
I
J
Good,
how
are
you
so
John
Gardner
here
from
chromewear
I
was
told
I
might
be
interested
in
this,
so
came
to
check
it
out
mostly
here,
to
observe
and
learn.
J
I
am
a
senior
applications
engineer
and
grimoire
and
I've
done
some
open
source
work
in
the
past,
not
currently
on
any
particular
project.
But
I
worked
a
lot
with
can
JS
at
a
previous
job
that
I
had.
If
anybody
has
heard
of
that
and
yeah
here
to
excited
to
be
here.
A
Cool,
please,
please
do
share
opinions
a
lot.
This
is
just
about
what
people
have
seen
in
their
history
right
and
how
that
might
affect
the
round.
So
please
don't
it's
you're
more
than
welcome
to
be
more
in
listen
mode,
but
also
don't
feel
like
you
have
to
be
an
expert
on
what
we've
been
doing
so
far
to
still
have
an
impact
on
the
conversation
today
and
that's
true
for
everybody
in
the
room
right
so.
J
K
I'm
independent,
so
I
was
a
physicist
before,
and
this
is
interesting.
That's
why
I'm
here
so
trying
to
learn
landscape
and
history
and
the
involvement
of
the
architectures
and
abstractions
of
the
concepts
thanks.
A
Awesome
cool
so
with
that,
as
I
said
so,
I
didn't
really
introduce
myself.
I
work
at
a
startup
called
centasso
working
on
platform
engineering
things
so
I'm
on
the
product
side.
Now
vendor
product
side,
I've
been
a
platform
engineer
up
until
about
a
year
ago,
when
I
started
this
for
five
or
six
years
and
before
that
sort
of
in
developer
experience
stuff
from
a
testing
point
of
view
for
many
years,
so
sort
of
this
is
the
stuff
I
enjoy
the
internal
stuff
and
I
just
have
started
to
join
both
Robert
and
Josh.
A
They
they've
been
kind
enough
to
help
me
join
them
as
the
leads
with
the
working
group.
So
that's
why
my
role
here
is
facilitator.
So,
yes,
like
I'm
helping
make
guide
things
in
some
ways,
you
may
hear
me
do
things,
but
the
biggest
most
important
part
of
my
job
is
making
sure
everyone
has
a
chance
to
review
and
input
to
stuff.
So
if
you
ever
feel
like
that
is
not
happening
a
please
tell
me,
but
B.
A
If
you
don't
feel
comfortable
telling
me
tell
Josh
or
Robert,
and
they
can
help
make
sure
that
the
voices
get
heard
as
as
need
be,
so
that's
definitely
our
goal
so
to
intro.
Just
a
quick
recap:
at
the
top
of
this
document,
we've
got
a
contributor
guide,
It's,
All
About,
please,
let's
contribute
everybody
has,
should
have
comment
and
whatever
the
suggesting
mode
options,
so
they
can
make
suggestions
to
updates
if
they
see
a
better
way
of
saying
something
or
want
to
add
something.
A
The
biggest
thing
that's
hidden
in
here
that
you
may
not
know
from
this
tell
from
the
surface
is
that
this
is
a
fairly
high
level
document
still.
So
this
is
something
that
we
want
to
be
targeting
kind
of
more
Architects
directors
sort
of
levels.
A
Yes,
of
course,
individual
Engineers
can
read
and
and
get
benefit
from
this,
but
we
don't
want
to
dive
into
the
weeds,
and
for
that
there's
not
going
to
be
any
comment
as
to
like
specific
projects.
So
that's
one
thing
where
I
will
like
be
a
bit
more
strong
in
the
in
the
leadership
is
saying:
no,
we
won't
do
that.
We
will
not
add
in
any
any
reference
to
any
projects,
cncf
or
otherwise,
yeah,
that's
just
not
in
the
scope
of
this
paper.
A
We
have
lots
of
exciting
projects
that
we're
planning
on
doing
that
will
will
explore
potential
projects
that
can
help
lead
to
these
outcomes,
and
so,
if
that's
something
you
want
to
do
definitely
reach
out,
we
can
find
something
that
will
that
will
scratch
that
itch
for
you,
but
unfortunately
that
won't
be
this
paper.
So
that's
sort
of
that
and
then
I've
been
talking
about
our
paper.
A
This
maturity
model
is
having
sort
of
three
sections
sort
of
this
intro
section,
which
is
like
the
paragraphs
and
I'll
talk
about
that
for
a
second,
then
we
have
this
like
screen
shotter
section.
This
is
like
the
table
where
we
want
things
to
be
short
and
snappy
and
like
screenshotable,
for
like
conference
talks
papers,
point
at
this
kind
of
thing.
A
We've
gotten
lots
of
really
good
feedback
on
the
table
and
and
in
the
paragraph
section
as
well,
we've
sort
of
let
the
paragraph
section
at
this
stage
wither
a
bit
reason
being
that
if
we
don't
have
the
relationship
that
each
of
these
aspects
have
to
each
other
and
how
people
might
grow
through
them
kind
of
solidified
and
confident
within
the
group,
then
adding
lots
of
paragraphs
of
detail
around
them
is
likely
to
to
require
a
lot
of
refactoring
and
changing
as
we
improve
the
the
relationships
that
we
have.
A
So
these
paragraphs
are
likely
to
be
out
of
date
from
what
you
see
up
in
the
table
and
that's
okay.
They
really
just
give
an
idea
of
where
we
could
go
with
with
details
and
we'll.
We
will
definitely
dive
into
that
once
we
get
a
little
bit
more
confidence
in
the
model
itself,
the
table
version.
That
makes
sense.
A
So
today's
focus
is
really
around
this
table.
This
table
is
the
guts
of
the
model.
If
we
get
it
right
on
how
we
have
relationships,
how
we
Define
the
different
aspects
of
the
model,
meaning
the
things
down
the
side
here,
and
we
get
right
how
we
progress
the
evaluation
and
the
maturity
of
someone
across
those.
We
can
do
a
lot
of
damage
and
Improvement
of
of
giving
examples
of
this
through
more
detailed
writing.
A
Any
of
that
sounds
surprising.
Any
of
that
anybody
want
a
question
or
challenge
cool
all
right.
So
with
that
in
mind,
I
had
said
that
I
want
to
sort
of
put
like
a
timer
so
that
we
go
for
breath
over
depth,
at
least
in
this
first
hour,
so
that
every
so
we
can
figure
out
where
hot
spots
are
right.
A
So
if
there's
like
something,
that
is
absolutely,
we
cannot
talk
through
and
kind
of
eight
seven
or
eight
minutes,
like
that's
a
good
thing
to
know,
and
we
can
make
a
decision
at
that
point:
do
we
go
deeper
or
do
we
try
and
figure
out
if
there's
another
hot
spot,
we
need
to
worry
about
or
not
throughout
the
model.
So
with
that
in
mind,
I'm
going
to
set
a
timer
and
I'm.
A
Very
sorry
if
I
cut
you
off
today,
but
I'm
going
to
try
and
facilitate
and
make
sure
people
can
can
all
speak,
and
so
please
don't
be
offended
if
I
suggest
someone
who's
got
their
hand
raised
or
something
else
to
that
effect
like
that's.
It's
just
trying
to
to
get
the
conversation
going.
So
with
that
in
mind,
the
first
row
is
currently
called
investment.
A
There
is
discussion
around
whether
or
not
this
could
or
should
be
called
budget
and
I
think
there
was
another
original
naming
of
it.
That
was
funding,
so
the
general
gist
of
this
first
aspect
is
how
things
get
paid
for
I'm
gonna:
try
not
to
use
any
of
those
words,
so
that
we
don't
I,
don't
try
and
lean
people's
opinions.
A
How
do
things
get
paid
for
and
paid
for
means
both
time
and
money,
and
that
has
always
been
the
intention
behind
this
row,
though
it's
not
always
been
clear
with
the
wording
so
take
it
away.
How
do
people
feel
about
that
being
an
aspect
of
platform
maturity
at
all
and
how
do
they
feel
about
the
naming
of
Convention
of
it
and
the
levels
that
are
currently
listed.
E
H
I
think
that
is
one
of
the
later
categories
that
kind
of
ties
into
that
I
like
the
wording
investment,
because
it
kind
of
makes
sense
from
the
perspective
of
both
like
monetary
and
just
people.
H
A
A
Are
we
talking
about
build
versus
Buy,
and
my
first
reaction
to
that
question
was
like
you
should
be
able
to
be
mature,
whether
you're,
building
or
buying,
because
your
context
on
whether
or
not
you
can
buy
the
things
and
have
the
outcomes
that
you
need
or
you
have
to
custom
build
or
you
want
to
custom
build
but
like
something
about
how
you
put
that
it
like
I.
Don't
know
made
me
interested
I'm
like?
Should
we
be
building
in.
H
I
think
it's
somewhat
in
there
like
the
first
stepping
having
a
voluntary
contributors.
That
means
someone
is
not
taken
off
like
whatever
it's
a
primary
thing
that
you're
supposed
to
do
and
get
dedicated
to
doing
platforms.
H
So
you
kind
of
you
know
working
after
after
after
hours,
but
it
could
be
more
present
and
actually
I
think
I.
Think
I
think
it's
to
me
the
devil's
more
or
less
what
it
means
when
it
comes
to
that
yeah
I
think
it
makes
sense
if
you
can
say
investment
as
in
money
and
time
having
having
you
know,
designated
platform
engineering
team.
You
know
the
designated
product
manager,
that's
a
new
level
on
top
of
that
again
Etc,
so
I
think
it
makes
sense,
as
it
is
I'm
not
sure.
J
Or
so
can
I
get
a
little
bit
of
clarification
on
the
wording
of
the
designated
platform
engineering
team,
because
so
at
previous
jobs
we
didn't
have
a
designated
team
necessarily,
but
basically
in
between
any
client
work.
We
were
just
expected
to
to
pick
up
and
work
on
our
platform.
Is
that
kind
of
synonymous
with
what
you
mean
there?
J
F
H
J
Were
actually
like
during
you
know,
paid
hours,
though,
and,
and
there
were
times
when
we
were
given
that
as
like
our
project
to
work
on
so
I
I,
think
it's
a
it's
kind
of
the
same
thing
as
level
two,
but
just
more
Dynamic.
So
you
know
basically
people
rotating
in
and
out.
It
was
more
Dynamic.
H
Yes,
yeah
and
I
I,
like
the
update
that
got
in
temporary
contributions,
so
the
way
that
I
see
it.
If
you
you
you,
depending
on
your
company,
you
could
be
somewhere
where
you
have
two
mindsets:
I
am
a
principal
Cloud
engineer
and
I
work
against
customers,
but
I'm
also
kind
of
the
lead
on
the
platforms
internally,
so
I'm
split
between
two
different
roles.
H
But
the
fact
is
that
we
have
a
dedicated
team
for
it
and
we
dedicate
time
for
it,
we're
not
just
like
picking
up
whenever
there's
when
there's
available
time
or
set
off
temporarily
time
for
it.
We
have
specific
time
set
off,
but
I
think
I,
think
that
is
kind
of
kind
of
the
difference
between
level
one
and
two,
if
you
want,
but
obviously
you
can
land
in
between
in
some
aspects,
I
think
yeah.
A
B
Good,
you
kind
of
had
a
lot
of
what
I
was
gonna
say
there
I
think
some
reading
team
topologies
right
now
and
a
lot
of
what
they
emphasize
is
the
importance
of
like
someone
needs
to
own
the
project
which
I
think
that's
a
level
of
maturity
when
there's
ownership-
and
it's
not
just
like
someone
somewhere
when
they're
free
is
going
to
work
on
this.
It's
like
specifically,
these
people
are
going
to
own
it.
This
way,
it's
actually
going
to
look
like
to
own
this
platform.
B
B
I
think
the
phrasing
designated
full-time
people
probably
could
be
phrase
different,
because
that
can
be
taken
a
lot
of
ways
like
what
is
full
time
like
what
what
exactly
I
think
but
I
think
kind
of
what
it
sounds
like
you're
trying
to
get
at
is
like
there's
some
intentionality
with
this.
This
there's
a
there's,
people
that
are
sets
and
they're
going
to
push
this
product.
This
platform
forward.
J
That's
kind
of
what
I
was
trying
to
get
at
with
the
the
full-time
people
as
well
like
whenever,
so
it
wasn't
just
our
free
time
and
what
I
was
thinking
of.
It
was
more
like
okay,
like
in
between
this
client
work.
We
want
you
to
actually
do
this
feature
and
you
are
full-time
on
that
feature
until
you
get
that
integrated
into
the
platform
right.
One
thing
that
I
mentioned
as
far
as
just
wording
is
concerned
is
maybe
like
a
well-defined
roadmap
could
be
put
into
there.
Somehow.
D
Yeah
and
that's
down
that's
down
in
the
road
maps
and
backlog,
I.
J
A
It's
a
great
it's
a
great
point
and
that's
where
it's,
where
it's
interesting
to
try
and
like
balance
the
aspects
and
keep
them
independent
enough
like
there's,
definitely
going
to
be
this
munging
of
things
where,
like
you
know,
but
that's
why
I
feel
like
what
we're
doing
right
now
with
a
little
bit
of
the
wordsmithing,
is
trying
to
separate
those
a
bit
better
right.
So,
like
I
started
with
like
like
annual
something
and
I'm
like.
A
Oh
no,
it's
like
it's
more
about
your
horizon
right
and
like
that
includes
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
wordsmithing
needs
to
be
done.
The
idea
is:
are
we
on
the
same
page
of
like
what
we're
trying
to
achieve
within
each
box
and
do
we
have
enough
pointers
that
we
can
like
Wordsmith
the
Box
accordingly,
I
am
at
time
and
I'm
rolling,
with
the
punches
here
on
how
to
facilitate
this.
So
I
want
to
ask
your
all's
opinion.
That
was
eight
minutes.
A
A
That's
a
thumbs
up,
not
that
this
is
the
final
model
that
we're
gonna,
publish
thumbs
down,
means
that
there
are
fundamental
concerns
with
this
aspect
and
that
we
should
stop
and
spend
a
few
minutes
on
it
all
right,
so
yeah,
rubber
or
like
on
the
screen.
That's
fine!
So
the
count
of
three
one,
two,
three,
all
right,
so
a
little
bit
more,
there's
still
some
questions
being
out
held
for
this
aspect.
Marsh
is
there
something
can
you
can
you
share?
What
your
concern
is
so
that
we
can
yeah.
F
I
just
want
to
go
back
to
the
comment
from
a
little
bit
earlier,
whether
this
considers
the
organizational
structure
I
think
it
does
to
me.
This
line
is
about
creating
space
in
the
organization
for
this
to
exist
and
I.
Think
the
if
I
understood
down
below
I
think
the
alternative
would
be
the
technical
team
topology,
maybe,
and
that
to
me,
is
about
the
relationship
to
other
teams.
F
That's
how
I
think
about
it.
In
my
head.
H
I
I
would
agree
with
you,
but
I
think
it's
kind
of
that's
kind
of
what
it
spelled
out
to
be
in
a
level
I
feel
because
it's
because
you're
starting
off
by
having
no
no
investment,
directly
or
or
little
low
investment
into
the
platform
to
dedicating
and
investing
in
the
platform
which
is
people
or
money
depending
and
then
you
have
more
maturity.
And
then
you
have
basically
a
platform
like
full
on.
F
F
There
are
their
whole
point
of
those
is
to
get
from
one
to
two
and
then
I
think
there's
a
big
leap
to
get
from
two
to
three,
because
I
think
you'll
face
organizational
challenges
in
making
that
jump
and
so
that
it
feels
like
gathering
strength
in
order
to
make
that
leap.
That's
how
I
feel
it,
but
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
how
we
capture
that
or
even
if
others
agree
or
disagree.
E
F
D
D
D
F
Interesting
point
because
I
think
looking
for
examples
that
contradict
what
we're
claiming
is
is
a
good
way
of
testing
this
too,
and
that's
one
of
those
is
it?
Do
they
need
that
dedicated
demonic
is.
H
Yeah
and
I
think
that
actually
kind
of
proves
the
point
of
going
from
less
to
more
mature
the
the
idea
of,
and-
and
this
is
what
we
did
like
we-
we
had
no
role,
you
know
everyone's
role,
less
and
basically
just
do
whatever
you
want
type
thing,
and
it's
like.
Oh
we're,
gonna,
create
platforms
and
we're
going
to
prepare
these
services,
but
no
one's
dedicated
to
that
which
then
turns
out
to
people
just
taking
random
stuff
and
it
doesn't
progress
and
then
I
go
like
no.
We
need
to
have
some.
H
We
need
to
have
a
dedicated
platform
team
that
creates
these
platform
stuff
and
as
soon
as
that
I
said
that
and
took
a
little
bit
of
charge
of
it
things
starting
like
actually
moving
somewhere.
So
it's
it's
kind
of
obvious
and
I've
been
saying
this
as
like
a
consultant
for
many
years.
It's
obvious
that
having
a
dedicated
team
for
this
makes
sense,
you
you
don't
progress
fast,
you
might
progress,
but
you
you
will
not
just
understand
efficiently,
which
again
kind
of
leads
up
to
the
maturity.
Well,
you
know
the
further
along
the
scale.
H
You
know
the
the
levels
here
make
sense
like
we're
in
the
ballpark,
if
nothing
else,
on
the
different
levels
and
referencing
back
to
when
we
created
the
getoffs
principles,
there's
only
four
principles
and
we
had
five
six
meetings
per
principle
just
to
get
the
word
incorrect,
like
we
knew
what
the
principle
was
like
principle,
one.
This
is
principle
one,
but
then
we
needed
to
get
the
wording
correctly.
So
there
could
be
no
doubt
that
this
is
the
principle
and
that
it
means
what
we
feel
admit
and.
A
That's
why
this
is
kind
of
same
thing:
yeah,
that's
why
they
say
this
is
not
about
finalizing
the
table.
It's
about
moving
ourselves
closer
to
feeling
like
we
know
what
the
principle
is.
Even
if
we
can't
get
down
to
the
one
word
and
that's
where
like
Matt
was
asking
like.
Oh
can
these
also
have
one
word:
it's
like.
Yes,
that
is
the
definite
intention
of
all
these
boxes,
but
that
doesn't
mean
we're
there
yet
for
all
of
them
right
for
some
of
them
we're
still
sort
of
aligning
on
it.
A
So,
based
on
listening
to
this
I'm
gonna
make
I've
made
an
suggestion
and
I'm
gonna
I
wanted
to
make
a
suggestion
before
I
just
went
and
did
this
one
level
further
feels
to
me
like
level.
One
is
about
that
voluntary,
temporary
and
inconsistent
contribution,
whether
that
be
time,
money
otherwise
level.
Two
is
about
that
consistency,
but
that
could
be
a
consistency
of
a
project
manager,
managing
outsourced,
purchased
platforms.
It
could
be
consistency
of
platform,
engineering
teams,
building
something
that
are
Engineers
based,
but
it's
about
that
consistency
versus
we
get
to
three.
A
It's
about
that
holistic
consistency
that,
like
dedicated
roles
that
covers
both
Technical
and
non-technical
sides
of
things.
So
what
I
would
suggest
that
we
do?
Is
we
delete
this
second
bullet
from
two
because
that's
basically
been
moved
up
to
like
it's.
If
there's
an
annual
Horizon,
you
have
people
like
you,
have
someone
even
it's
just
a
project
manager
managing
your
Beach
of
Consultants
right.
A
I
think
I
captured
here
Marsh
this
idea
of
like
what
is
this
to
do
with
the
org
and
making
space
for
this
and
and
that
comment
you
made
right
at
the
beginning,
so
I
think
that
that's
the
thing
that's
worth
true,
like
not
the
thing,
but
anything
that's
worth
chewing
on
that.
You
said
that
I
think
that
we
aren't
going
to
come
to
a
great
conclusion
on
very
very
quickly,
but
it's
like
yeah
I
want
that
present
and
captured,
because
I
think
it
was
an
interesting
thing
to
track
all
right.
A
I'm
going
to
push
us
I'm,
a
terrible,
timekeeper
I'm
going
to
push
us
into
the
next
one,
which
is
adoption,
advocacy
and
marketing.
And
again
these
are
all
like
suggested
words.
We
have
to
word
Smith
down
to
something
capturable,
but
that
doesn't
mean
we're
there.
Yet
this
section
is
all
about
the
fact
that
there
are
that
platforms
are
about
users
and
consumers
of
offerings
and
services
by
the
platform,
and
how
does
that
relationship
get
nurtured
or
get
in
handled
and
managed?
A
And
how
do
you
encourage
adoption
or
or
make
sure
you
have
users
right?
Is
this,
like
you
will?
Is
this
carrot?
Is
this
stick?
Is
this
anything
in
between
so
that's
sort
of
the
like
high
level
topic,
but
there's
lots
of
room
for
discussion
around
how
we
phrase
that
and
how
we
level
that
so
who's
got
questions
or
ideas.
B
Just
a
quick
question
for
clarity,
I'm
confused
by
the
purple
and
the
so
like
yeah.
What
is
this?
This
is
just
like
I
guess.
The
suggestion
is
adoption,
comma
advocacy
and
marketing,
or
we're
just
trying
to
figure
out
yeah
I'm,
just
trying
to
see
kind
of.
Where
do
we
have
like
I
guess
a
row
title
that
we
want
to
use,
or
are
we
still
trying
to
figure
that
part
out.
A
E
Yeah
yeah
I
just
put
some
suggestions
out
there
and
I
put
them
in
this
area
so
that
you
know
we
could
debate
them
like
we
are
I.
Don't
know,
advocacy
is
a
term
that
I
hear
a
lot
in
technology
companies.
For
you
know
marketing,
essentially
products.
So
that's
why
I
put
it
there
cool.
A
Cool
so
I,
just
trying
to
like
consistently
have
a.
If
there's
a
question
mark,
it's
like
I,
don't
know
one
of
these
things.
Hopefully
maybe
we
can
remove
some
of
these
as
options
today,
if
we
feel
like
they're,
not
good
fits,
but
that's
where
we
stand
today.
Yeah.
E
Like
the
question
itself,
what
compels
users
I
know
that
I'd?
Actually,
what
attracts
users
I'd
mentioned
that
but,
like
we're
we're?
How
do
you
bring
users
to
your
platform,
like
that's
the
Primitive,
we're
kind
of
going
for
here
and
I
guess,
like
advocacy,
marketing,
adoption
and
there's
a
little
difference?
Adoption
is.
E
Adoption
could
be
like,
are
they
using
it?
I
guess
like
just
raw
numbers
and
advocacy
could
be
like.
Do
you
have?
How
do
you
Market
it?
How
do
you
inform
them?
It's
almost
two
different
motions.
The
advocacy
informs
them.
You
know
like
in
marketing
than
a
product
like
it
informs
the
market,
hey
we're
here.
We
have
a
great
product
for
you
and
then
adoption
is
okay.
Are
they
you
know
measuring?
Are
they
actually
using
it?
H
It
it
is
a
little
bit
difficult
with
these
words,
because
they
kind
of
overlap
in
some
aspects,
depending
on
your
outlook.
I
feel
that
advocacy
is
something
you
actively
do
not
something
that's
measurable,
so
I,
don't
think
that
should
be
the
name
while
adoption
would
be
more
fitting.
Marketing
is
also
something
that
you
do.
I
like
the
added
growth,
but
it's
kind
of
not
directly
clear
so
I
would
say.
Adoption
makes
sense
like
come
on.
Yeah.
F
Yeah
and
I
had
a
growth,
because
I
think
it
does
capture
both
marketing
and
advocacy,
and
all
this
does
it
is
about
you
know:
how
are
you
growing
your
user
base
right
in
the
beginning,
you're
showing
people
and
trying
I
think
in
the
in
level
one
you're
trying
to
understand
what
people
would
need
right.
There's
a
lot
of
learning.
F
That's
happening
there
as
you're,
trying
to
understand
the
kinds
of
Returns
on
the
investment
you
could
get
to
and
then
I
think
you
know
then
I
think
you've
sort
of
you're
trying
to
establish
whether
you
have
a
kind
of
product
Market
fit
internally.
Like
is
this:
are
you
seeing
the
results
that
you
expected
and
and
I
think
then
the
leap
becomes.
You
know
now,
when
you're
actively
trying
to
drive
growth
with
internal
resources.
That
feels
like
a
new
level
in
three
and
the
last
one
would
just
be
established
right.
A
The
established
best
way
to
work
in
your
company,
I,
think
I,
just
I
think
we're
saying
the
same
thing,
but
just
to
double
check.
It's
that
your
internal
offering
is
so
so
appealing
and
so
aligned
with
the
requirements
of
the
company
that
everybody
is
like
why
the
heck
would
I
go
anywhere
else.
It's
not.
F
A
That's
that's
the
one
thing
of
like
making
sure
it's,
because
it's
a
big
deal
is
like
it
can
also
erode
right,
like
you
could
have
a
product
that
was
fantastic
like
there's
tons
of
freaking
slack
and
it's
new
removal
of
the
thread.
Sidebar
like
great
products
go
sideways
and
like
that
is
a
part
of
internal
products
as
well.
Right
like
you,
are
you
seizing
things
and
it
turns
out.
They
go
away
that
doesn't
align
with
the
company
anymore
it
and
you
can
actually
drop
almost
immaturity
in
some
ways
to.
F
K
A
B
Yes,
sorry
yeah
well,
all
I
was
gonna
say
was
that
I
think
kind
of
going
back
to
the
growth
Concepts
I
think
you
hit
him
kind
of
around
the
nose
Abby,
where
I
don't
think
growth
should
be
the
goal.
I
think
it's
really
figuring
out.
How
do
we
Elevate
right
the
larger
organization's
goal
like,
ultimately,
that's
that's
the
that's
the
purpose
right.
B
They
want
to
make
more
money
or
whatever
it
is
right,
so
the
platform
should
align
to
that
purpose,
whatever
that
being,
and
that
could
be
like
the
platform
could
just
be
like
man,
this
specific
group
of
people-
and
it
could
be
a
small
group
of
people
building
a
platform
for
them
could
absolutely
like
be
the
most
important
thing
that
could
help
to
elevate
or
or
raise
up
the
company's
goal,
and
so
it
doesn't
necessarily
connotate
like
growth
in
the
traditional
sense,
but
really
having
like
an
impact
to
help
achieve
those
goals
by
abstracting
whatever
so
yeah.
E
E
E
A
Find
that
that's
not
that's
not
uncommon,
that
a
section
starts
with
a
certain
name.
Then
it
turns
out
that
actually,
that
name
is
really
a
stage
and
like
trying
to
generalize.
The
thing
is
that
that's
happened
a
few
times.
I'll
put
it
that
way.
Platform
is
a
product
like
product
was
like
a
name
where
backlog
and
roadmap
is
for
a
while,
and
it's
like
well,
but
no,
but
that's
actually
a
stage,
possibly
Maybe.
Not
maybe
we
want
to
undo
that,
but
it's
a
conversation
I
think
that
comes
up
quite
a
lot.
A
So
I've
I
I,
probably
sullied
your
idea
of
growth
Marsh
by
adding
the
word
user
in
front
of
it
because,
like
that
idea
of
like
this
is
about
the
end
users
like
more
so
that
and
that
maybe
takes
us
away
from
that
idea
of
like
the
economic
growth.
A
That
Josh
is
talking
about
like
the
or
away
from
the,
like
the
thought
that
that
might
be
what
we're
talking
about
when
that's
I,
don't
think
our
our
Focus
here,
but
I
also
have
since
added
driver
to
use,
which
is
a
terrible
phrase,
and
we
could
definitely
Wordsmith
that
better,
but
it
I'm
hearing
what
people
are
saying
and
it
feels
like
it's
like
that.
That
is
the
the
best
yet
of
what
I'm
hearing
everyone
saying
and
what
like
to
capture
it.
Even
if
it's
a
terrible
header
does
that.
F
Me
just
like
I
think
it
made
me
wonder
like:
is
it
about
user
growth?
What
other
growth
is
there
like
I?
Think
as
you
get
towards
levels,
three
and
four
you're
you're
like
what
is
the
total
time
it
takes
to
have
a
successful
deployment
or
to
troubleshoot
an
issue
like
there
are
other
metrics
you
might
be
looking
at,
you
know,
so
you
know
you
have
your
your
addressable
Market
once
you're
fully
realized
as
a
pro
in
level.
Four
I
think
is
pretty
small.
F
D
Yeah
one
thing
that
I've
been
thinking
about
a
little
bit
around
the
level
three
is
I'm
kind
of
looking
at
it
from
even
like
an
open
source
project
standpoint
at
at
what
point
do
people
start
to
actively
seek
out
the
platform
like
actively
seek
using
it
and
leveraging
it
and
even
turn
into
more
of
a
contributor
level
relationship
or.
D
Form
of
consumption,
if
that
makes
sense,
I
feel
like
there's
a
lot
of
parallels
there,
but
I'm
not
entirely
sure
how
to
I.
You
know,
I
didn't
know
what
that
was
like
three
or
four
right
like
at
four:
are
there?
Are
their
teams
actively
contributing?
But
then
the
platform
team
becomes
more
of
a
facilitator
versus
doing
the
active
who's
on
ground
development.
A
So
yes,
we
can
so
we've
hit
the
timer.
Are
there
any
words?
People
want
to
take
off
of
this
list
based
on
conversations.
G
There's
one
like
I
think
like
if
you
look
at
the
first
words
like
adoption,
embracement
advocacy
and
marketing
the
word
marketing
is
look
like
a
difficult
here
to
tell
people
what
would
what
do
we
actually
mean
by
marketing?
Is
it
the
marketing
means
selling
a
product
whether
it's
the
marketing
mean
for
because
there
is
the
same
word
like
advocacy
and
evangelism
is
actually
is
used,
interchangeably
and
sometimes
advocacy?
If
you
talk
to
a
lot
of
the
some
of
the
community,
members
do
fail,
advocacy
mean
influence
without
Authority.
G
A
Josh
said
a
similar
point,
I
think,
which
is
that,
like
both
marketing
and
advocacy,
are
almost
like
activities
in
comparison
to
the
other
words
on
that
list,
which
are
more
like
descriptors,
maybe
I,
don't
know
I'm
wondering
if,
if
for
the
same
reasons
Siam
that
you're
saying
marketing
isn't
quite
a
right
fit
Josh,
you
mentioned
advocacy
as
like.
A
A
A
You
can
measure
right,
that's
actually
what
each
of
these
aspects
should
be
something
you
can
measure,
because
the
whole
point
is
we're
measuring
it
at
different
levels
and
like
are
we
measuring
their
marketing,
no
we're
measuring
their
user
growth
or
their
adoption
or
their
like
something
else.
That's
there
and
I'm
not
saying
we've
selected
one
yet,
but
sorry.
E
H
A
F
H
A
Comfortable
leaving
those
all
there
for
us
to
Stew
on
them,
I
don't
feel
like
we
have
to
get
down
to
one
word
today
so,
but
I
feel
like
we
successfully
removed
a
few,
because
we've
talked
about
the
idea:
I
want
to
do
the
same
thing
thumbs
up
thumbs
down
and
really
what
I'm
looking
for
here
actually
is.
I
can
save
you
all
the
thumbs
up
if
you
want
what
I'm
looking
for
is
similar
to
I
thought.
A
Marsh
did
a
really
good
example
of
why
it
was
useful
to
ask
this
question
on
the
last
section:
if
there
is
something
you
feel
like
you're
uncomfortable
with
the
direction
of
travel
for
this
aspect,
I'd
love
for
you
to
share
that
now,
even
if
we
don't
solve
your
uncomfortable
feeling
today,
it
gives
us
something
to
think
about
so
I'm
going
to
leave
a
bit
of
space
if
anyone
is
uncomfortable
with
anything
on
the
direction
of
travel.
For
this
aspect,
please,
please
share
now.
This
would
be
the
right
time.
A
Cool
all
right
doesn't
doesn't
mean
you
can
never
again
disagree.
It
just
means
that
that's
good
we're
on
the
right
direction
of
travel.
All
right,
we've
got
10
minutes
left,
I,
I'm
gonna
keep
going
down
the
list,
but
the
next
time
we
do
this
we're
going
to
start
from
the
bottom
and
go
up.
So
we
don't
just
always
talk
about
the
same
ones,
but
we're
going
from
the
top
of
the
list
today.
That's
what
we'll
keep
doing
and
I
say.
A
10
minutes
left
in
that
like
if
you
had
a
one
hour
block
I
will
be
here
for
two
hours.
For
anyone
who
would
like
to
be
but
I
know,
some
people
are
have
kind
of
one
hour
blocks,
so
the
next
one
is
around
user
experience
and
documentation.
A
The
really
the
big
thing
about
this
that
I'm,
not
sure,
is
well
captured
in
all
the
words
so
I
want
to
talk
about.
The
intention
is
around
like
the
the
I
guess:
I'm
gonna
use
the
term
user
experience
which
is
terrible.
It
doesn't
mean
it's
the
right
name
for
the
section,
but
it's
about
that
Clarity
of
of
the
offering
and
how
it
actually
addresses
the
needs
of
the
users
right,
and
so
this
is
one
of
these.
A
This
is
the
first
situation
we're
running
into
where
the
the
maturity
in
the
row
that
we
were
just
talking
about
and
the
maturity
in
this
row
have
overlap
but
are
not
actually
dependent
on
each
other.
A
If
you
make
in
a
if
you
make
a
adoption
mandatory
but
you're,
but
the
thing
you're
making
is
tailored
to
the
experience
that
those
users
have
to
go
through
as
a
part
of
like
working
internally,
you
could
be
quite
mature
in
the
experience
and
be
potentially
immature
in
the
adoption
or
the
embracement
or
the
user
growth
or
the
driver
to
use
right.
So
they
are
Deca.
They
are
intended
to
be
decoupled,
but
we
might
find
that
they're
more
couple
than
than
we
want
them
to
be.
A
So
that's
a
good
thing
to
suss
out,
but
it's
that
idea
of
like
how
much
cognitive
load
as
a
user
of
this
off
internal,
offering
set
of
internal
offerings
am
I
taking
on
is
I,
guess,
maybe
the
way
I
would
summarize
it,
but
try
me
because
I
think
that
it's
it's
tough,
so
please
who's
uncomfortable
with
this
or
has
questions
or
ideas.
With
this
with
this
row.
E
I
read:
I
read
this
as
interface,
what
is
the
inter
the
style
of
interface,
that
your
platform
provides?
That's,
why
I
added
the
word
documentation
because
I
think
that's
part
of
the
interface
I,
guess
I'm,
not
saying
that
should
be
the
word
I
think
a
lot
of
people
use
the
word
user
experience
to
mean
interface,
so
it
kind
of
fits,
and
that
like
to
me
it's
whether
it's
like
you
just
said,
I
liked
how
you
just
said
it
whether
it's
adopted
or
not.
Is
this
platform.
E
E
J
So
one
thing
that's
a
little
ambiguous
to
me
is
the
level
three
and
level
four
and
kind
of
the
that
seems
like
a
little
bit
blurred
to
me
there
and
kind
of
the
definition
of
a
programmatic,
API
and
golden
path
templates.
J
So
there
to
me,
what
that
seems
like
it
would
be,
is
more
like
I,
don't
know
being
able
to
pull
something
from
like
npm,
JS
or
whatever,
and
then
potentially
like
up
to
having
like
a
full
like
CLI
tool,
to
walk
you
through,
like
the
setup
of
the
platform
and
to
ask
questions
and
set
it
up.
That
way
is
that
am
I
kind
of
on
base
there,
or
is
that
and.
B
J
As
far
as
user
experience
and
like
the
title
of
it
kind
of
like
on
onboarding,
is
what
I'm
getting
out
of
this
right,
like
how
easy
is
it
to
like
use
this
like
pull
this
into
yeah.
A
Yeah
I
think
what
I
realized
is
I
was
trying
to
describe
the
intention.
My
understanding
of
the
intention
of
this
row
is
that
there
are
two
things
being
muddled
here,
so
one
thing
that's
being
muddled
here
is
the
experience,
and
that
includes
what
you're
onboarding
into
the
experience
is.
What
your
documentation
of
the
experience
is,
what
your
interface
of
the
experience
is
and
so
forth,
but
the
other
thing
that
I
use
the
term.
F
I
mean
it's:
it's
interesting
to
pick
this
up
right
after
talking
about
adoption
and
user
growth,
because
to
me
growth
is
often
in
products
considering
what
is
friction
you
could
remove
to
facilitate
adoption
and,
and
so
there's
an
interesting
intertony
and
we're
going
to
I
think
find
this
all
over
the
place
where
these
rows
play
off
each
other,
but
I
wonder
if,
if
it's
a
way
to
think
about,
you
know
it's
a
kind
of
Engagement
and
that
you
know
sort
of
fits
into
that
option.
F
There's
just
because
I
have
the
floor.
I'm
going
to
steal
one
more
thought,
which
is
that
you
know
I
was
again
thinking
about
the
how
I
might
label
the
levels
one
to
four
and,
for
example,
not
saying
we
adopt
that
this
necessarily.
But
you
know,
thinking
about
these
levels
is
proving
learning
growing,
sustaining
just
as
an
example,
then
each
of
these
rows.
What
would
be
examples
of
those
qualities
in
each
cell?
F
F
F
A
H
I
I
well,
first
of
all,
I
think
that
user
experience
makes
sense
because
it's
not
about
a
particular
task.
It's
about
the
entirety
of
the
user
experience
so
whether
that
is
adopting
the
platform
or
using
the
platform
or
getting
benefits
out
of
it.
For
me,
that's
all
about
you
through
experience,
so
I
think
that
makes
sense
as
a
title.
H
I
would
also
kind
of
I
feel
that
the
the
levels
are
a
little
bit
off
or
in
my
mind,
golden
path.
Templates
is
a
lesser
maturity
than
having
curated
offerings
or
whatever
you
want
to
call
it.
H
So
if
you
are
Distributing
templates
and
that's
how
you
do
your
things,
that's
still
a
manual
process
if
you're
offering
a
full-arm
solution
through
API
a
portal,
a
whatever
that
is
a
more
mature
way
of
doing
it
in
my
mind,
I,
you
know
think
of
it
as
if
the
the
the
cloud,
the
big
cloud
platform,
vendors
that
here
here's
some
text,
please
update
it
and
then
press
apply
versus
you
go
into
a
portal,
and
you
say:
I
want
one
more
of
this
thing
you
know
for
for
me.
A
J
Put
in
chat
kind
of
like
my
quick
thoughts
about
this
as
far
as
like
kind
of
the
four
different
levels
for
discussion
and
yeah,
it
kind
of
goes
into
that
as
well
like
basically
well,
you
can
see
them
in
the
chat,
but
that's
kind
of
where,
where
I've
seen
it
at
in
the
past,.
A
I'm
starting
to
come
on
board
I.
Think
with
that
idea
like
that,
it's
really
trying
to
tackle
here
is
the
cognitive
load
and,
like
obviously
like,
there's,
there's
going
to
be
discussions
around
what
the
four
levels
are
exactly
but
like
the
the
user.
Experience
is
a
combination
of
the
desire
for
people
to
want
to
use
your
thing
and
the.
A
F
A
H
Don't
know,
and
if
you
like,
put
into
your
like
an
example,
if
you
tell
your
runtime
developers,
who
managed
to
get
something
into
a
container
that
you
need
to
use
this
templated
yaml
solution
to
get
your
stuff
out
versus,
go,
you
know
through
an
API
or
through
a
portal.
Just
you
know
point
the
thing
in
the
right
direction
and
it
will
go.
That
is
gonna,
be
the
the
better
solution
for
them
and
then
obviously
we
are
different
kinds
of
developers
and
different
kinds
of
like
it.
H
I
A
All
right
so
we're
we
just
hit
eight
minutes
and
again
I
realized
that
we
never
have
enough
time
for
any
of
these.
Just
just
so,
you
all
realize
I'm,
just
as
like
duh
like
heartbroken
of
these,
but
it's
it's
worth
a
check-in
that
the
the
thing
we
want
to
try
and
Achieve
is.
A
Are
we
on
the
right
like
direction
of
travel
right,
and
we
will
need
to
pick
words,
and
there
will
be
an
edit
made
to
this
document
at
some
point
in
the
future,
where
we
pick
words
and
then
we
can,
we
can
worry
about
the
words
but
like
how
do
how
do
people
feel
about
the
direction
of
travel?
Are
people?
Do
people
feel
like
there's,
there's
things
that
they
want
to
raise
right
now
on
this
row,
where
they're
like
I'm,
uncomfortable
that
we're
going
to
tackle
this
in
a
way
that
feels
fit
for
the
document.
E
E
And
and
integrate
it
into
there,
the
idea
is
like
as
your
the
idea
here
is
as
you're
coming
to
the
power.
How
easy
is
it
for
you
to
use
whatever
the
platform
offers
to
actually
get
your
work
done
like?
Is
it
a
click
button
and
my
database
is
in
there
my
secret
Turner
I?
Don't
even
think
about
it
or
is
it
you
know
the
Other
Extreme?
Is
it
a
doc
that
says,
do
these
25
steps
and
then
you're
ready
to
go
so
yeah
just
wanted
to
call
that
out?
H
I
could
just
set
it
integrates
into
it.
Oh
yes,
the
integration
right,
I,
I
and
I.
Think
again
when
it
comes
to
not
to
go
over
time,
yeah.
Of
course,
I
am
I
borrowed
the.
H
H
A
Yeah
I
think
I
think
what
I'm
I'm
more
and
more
feeling
like
Josh
I
appreciate
you
pulling
that
in
and
I
think
that
your
desire
to
put
in
that
last
row
speaks
to
the
fact
that
this
row
is
trying
to
tackle
two
different
things
and
I.
A
Think
that,
like
cognitive
load
and
experience
are
two
different
things,
and
whether
or
not
those
need
to
be
split
because,
like
as
I
said,
like
my
my
canonical
example
right
now
of
this
is
like
a
request:
queue
is
low,
cognitive
load,
but
huge,
annoyance
and,
like
documentation,
is
potentially
High
cognitive
loads.
A
You
have
to
like
learn
how
to
use
the
documentation,
but
like
at
least
it's
self-service
and
that's
like
actually
fairly
mature
when
it
comes
to
like
how
autonomous
your
team
is
so
like
I
think
that
there's
possibly
some
like
things
that
need
to
be
talked
about
in
there
need
to
be
tackled
in
there.
I.
I
H
I
I
would
say
if
we're
adding
word
or
or
potential
titles
that
we
want
to
go
through,
I
would
remove
cognitive
load
management
for
using
just
streamlining,
because
I
I
agree.
That
makes
sense
as
a
word
in
this
category,
that
doesn't
mean
it's.
The
final
word
that
you
should
be,
but
I
think
it's
at
least
a
step
in
the
right
direction.
G
Yes
and
also
I'll
be
like
I
think
like
if
you,
when
you
talk
about
user
experience,
sometimes
it's
actually
it's
a
bigger
umbrella
for
the
interface,
meaning
is
a
if
the
interface
is
a
subset,
then
user
experience
is
a
superset
of
these
things,
so
user
experience
actually
sometime
encapsulate
interfaces
and
when
we're
talking
about
interfaces
and
might
be
there's
a
problem,
because
people
think
like
we're
talking
about
add-ons
or
like
third-party
broad
third-party
tooling.
Is
it
with
talking
about
this
thing
in
the
third
party
tooling
that
interface
trying
to
be
a
good
word?
G
A
Interoperability,
so
what
I
was
actually
going
to
add
when
I
thought,
where
I
thought
you
were
going
with
that
and
I
may
have
misunderstood,
is
like
we
need
to
remove
this
as
a
focus
on
third
parties
or
as
a
as
a
possible
focus
on
third
parties.
May
need
to
like
talk
about
the
consistency
of
solution
internally,
like
that.
There's
this,
like
the
interface
we're
not
talking
about
how
well
you've
how
well
terraform
is
documented
if
you
use
terraform
or
whatever
we're
talking
about
how
the
people
in
your
organization.
A
Manage
their
resources
across
all
the
different
tools
you
probably
use,
including
your
CID,
cicd,
automation
or
infrastructures,
code,
automation
or
whatever,
and
like
that,
that's
your
interface
to
your
necessary
tools
to
do
your
job,
necessary
capabilities.
Do
your
job
was
that
I
saw
a
bit
of
nodding,
but
also
I.
Don't
think
I
fully
captured
what
you
were
saying
so.
G
Yeah
I
think
like
like
for
interface
like
I'm
when
I
talking
about
it,
because
this
is
used
in
a
lot
of
the
other
articles
in
the
CNC
are
publishing
interface.
If
you
look
at
the
other
article
as
well,
when
you
talk
about
what
actually
people
and
the
reader
actually
compelling
to,
you
know,
we
actually
really
really
actually
heard
we
actually
really
really
know
about
from
interfaces
from
the
programming
world.
G
The
same
way
like
this
is
a
platform
definition
is
actually
definition
is
in
the
platform,
but
the
implementation,
the
outside
of
the
third
party
tooling
like
if
the
platform
is
actually
is,
is
built
in
for
the
governance
and
policy
management
management,
its
meaning
is
not
doing
by
its
own,
but
it's
actually
implementing
via
third
party
tooling.
That's
one
of
the
one
of
the
feeling
people
might
clot
from
the
interface
rather
than
interoperability
mean
that
the
platform
is
actually
capable
of
interacting
with
the
third
party
tool
and
that's
at
the
different
context
to
it.
A
Yeah
I
think
captured,
captured
to
be
thought
about.
Definitely
so
thank
you
again.
Josh
like
when
I
say.
Does
anyone
have
any
concerns
with
the
direction
of
travel?
It's
not
in
an
attempt
to
make
nobody
say
anything.
It's
genuinely
an
attempt
to
get
people
to
raise
these
bigger
questions,
so
thank
you,
Josh
for
raising
that
are
there
any
other
questions.
People
have
around
the
direction
of
travel
for
this
row.
Obviously,
there's
no
final
word
for
this.
Yet
the
and
and
the
four
boxes
are
kind
of
thrown
completely
up
in
there.
A
If
this
becomes
two
rows
or
merges
with
that
last
row
or
whatever,
but
the
direction
of
travel
of
the
conversation
around
there
being
a
way
in
which
users
consume
capabilities
and
as
well
as
a
level
of
knowledge,
they
must
have
to
be
successful
with
consuming
those
capabilities,
that's
sort
of
what
we're
trying
to
tackle
here.
A
What
what
concerns?
If
any,
do
people
have
about
direction
of
travel,
John.
J
Yeah
so
I
I
apologize
for
I
yeah,
the
integration
part
was
kind
of
what
I
said
at
first,
that
that
is
actually
what
I
was
kind
of
talking
about
and
then
I
just
added
a
comment.
That's
more
of
like
the
the
user
experience
side
of
things
as
I
see
him
for
discussion
later.
Awesome.
I
A
A
A
Oh
cool
good,
on
awesome,
so
then
I'm
going
to
suggest
we
go
to
the
next
one
and
I'm
gonna
be
optimistic
with
my
eight
minute,
timer
again
once
I
describe
it,
the
this
one
is
all
about
how
changes
get
suggested
introduced
tracked
within
your
offerings.
So
how
much
of
like
the
delivery
timeline
is?
A
How
is
a
delivery
timeline
identified
tracked,
influenced
Etc.
Does
that
make
sense
and
if
it
doesn't
make
sense,
this
is
the
time
to
say
that
makes
no
sense,
but
that
was
I.
Think
the
intention
behind
this
row,
so
so
we're
on
this,
this
road
that
right
now
has
backlogger
road
map
as
to
possible
titles.
D
I
had
some
comments
in
The,
evolutionary
one
that
actually
kind
of
applied
to
the
whole
row.
I
didn't
know
if
you
could
yeah
okay,
I
didn't
know
if
those
would
help
too.
A
Oh
I,
like
the
word,
responsive,
okay,
so
another
take,
is
reactive,
responsive,
proactive,
strategic
when
and
then
pass
Pap,
so
out
of
necessity
versus
requests
that
can
be
anticipated
and
and
fulfilled
and
being
kind
of
adding
capabilities
to
facilitate
engagement,
enhancements
and
then
active
role
to
influence
and
consumption
of
new
capabilities
cool
that
feels
sort
of
aligned
with
the
like
direction
of
travel,
though
I
I
do
really
like
some
of
the
word
suggestions.
D
Yeah
I
think
the
the
core
of
it
for
me
was
around
that
in
anticipation
and
taking
like
a
deliberate
approach
to
platform
development
there
to
a
degree,
it's
like
the
reactive
part
was
again
was
this
thing
was
created
because
we
needed
better
tools
and
it
was
created
out
of
necessity
and
then
we've
kind
of
formalized
as
far
as
investment
you
know,
so
we
kind
of
formalized
that
we're
we've
got
a
little
bit
of
a
thing
going
and
we've
got
some
platform
strategy,
and
so
our
our
teams
are
asking
us
for
tools
and
things
and
we're
starting
to
develop
what
our
platform
is
we're,
starting
to
improve
some
things.
D
But
the
The
evolutionary
piece
for
me
was
like
that.
Turn
to
this
is
proactivity.
We've
got
a
full-time
team
or
at
least
a
strategy,
and
we
are
finding
new
ways
to
provide
tools
to
our
developers
right,
so
we're
trying
to
kind
of
turn
that
corner
where
it's
not
just
like
the
I.T
is
responding
to
a
request
from
the
developers.
Now
it
is
more,
let's
give
our
folks
better
tools
and
develop
some
new
things
and
improve
the
platform.
H
When,
when
I'm
looking
through
these
and
with
the
wording,
suggestions
from
Colin
and
with
watching
just
that
literally
I
I,
feel
that,
like
the
headline
for
this,
one
could
potentially
be
strategy
because
it
is
like
do
you
have
a
strategy?
Is
it
is?
Are
you
just
reacting
to
what
people
want?
Is
that
the
strategy?
Are
you
actually
setting
off
saying
that
we
need
to
make
like
what?
H
I
F
Like
that,
and
it
feels
like
in
the
early
stages,
you're
you're
much
more
tactical-
your
strategy
is
not
emerged
yet
and
that
feels
like
you're
on
the
Spectrum.
But
Robert's
comment
goes
to
something
that
I've
been
wrestling
with,
as
we've
been
talking,
which
is
you
know
why
so
many
rows?
Are
these
the
right
rows
like
to
me
I?
Think
I've,
gotta
I've
started
to
wrap
my
head
around
what
the
levels
are,
so
the
vertical
slices,
but
the
horizontal
slices.
What
are
they?
What
is
each
of
these
things?
F
I
think
you
know
in
some
ways
you
know
one
way
to
look
at
this
is
what
sort
of
visible
what
things
could
you
see?
That
would
help
you
understand
where
you
are
in
this
Matrix,
but
another
is
what
are
the
organizing
principles
around
how
they
group
these
things
together
and
so
I?
Don't
think
we're
going
to
figure
it
out
today,
but
it
feels
like
we
have
too
many
rows
because
I,
don't
I,
think
we're
mixing
things.
We
haven't
arrived
at
the
principles
that
divide
this
up.
Yet
that's
not
a
huge
criticism.
It's
just
like.
I
D
A
couple
of
us
were
in
the
thing
last
week
in
the
doc
last
week
and
I
think
like
Josh,
you
added
a
couple
rows
and
stuff
too,
and
it
was
as
we
were
chatting
about
that
stuff.
It
was
clear
that
there's
some
bleed
over
into
this
into
some
of
the
new
rows
and
then
some
got
deleted
and
some
got
created
and
some
got
deleted.
I
think
it's
a
good.
It's
a
good
thing
that
we're
kind
of
going
through
that
exercise,
there's
definitely
stuff
that
gets
discovered.
K
A
A
So
how
does
the
person
who's
consuming
it
think
about
how
they
consume
it
versus
row?
Four
is
more
about
the
producer's
Viewpoint.
How
do
you
produce
the
thing?
How
do
you
track
the
work
you
want
to
do
to
produce
it
like?
How
do
you
gain
input
into
what
what
you
want
to
produce?
Next,
that's
totally
off
the
cup
I'm.
Seeing
a
lot
of
nods
I
must
not
have
been
talking
total
and
other
crap
a
sorry
ago
before
I
talk,
more
crap.
B
You're
good
yeah
I
think
this
is
I,
appreciate,
I,
think
us
kind
of
talking
about
the
general
concepts
of
like
the
rows
and
how
they
kind
of
form
together.
I
think
talking
about
the
row
at
hand,
I
guess,
with
backlog
and
road
maps,
I
think
how
that's
definitely
different
than
the
last
one.
Is
that,
like
I,
think
there's
a
difference
between
like
interactions
between
the
platform
and
its
users
and
like
work
actually
getting
prioritized
like
what
should
the
platform
actually
accomplish.
B
So
that's
where
I
think
going
back
to
sort
of
these
columns
I
like
I
forgot,
who
suggested
it
I
think
it
was
Colin,
no
someone,
but
they
were
talking
about
kind
of
having
strategy
sort
of
be
the
focus
of
number
three
and
I
think
even
with
strategy
and
we're
talking
about
like
road
maps
and
backlog.
It
shouldn't
just
be
somebody's
asking
for
this
functionality.
Let's
just
go:
do
it?
B
There
should
be
some
type
of
like
alignment
with
the
group
where
organization's
overall
goals
and
so
I
think
that's
a
at
least
a
pattern
of
maturity
is
like
having
sort
of
like
there's
alignment
like
I'm,
not
just
having
to
guess
what
requirements
or
requests
should
come
first.
There
should
be
like,
as
a
group,
we
know
what's
important,
what's
going
on
and
aligns
with
the
platform's
backlog
and
road
maps
as
well.
C
D
Just
a
quick
note
for
a
refresher
for
folks,
the
cloud
native
maturity
model
does
a
decent
job.
I
know
they're,
reworking
the
way
that
they
format
and
stuff
like
that
too,
but
they're
horizontals
are
essentially
people,
process
policy,
technology
and
business
outcomes,
and
so
that
the
way
that
they're
kind
of
grouping
that
does
make
sense
or
the
different
outcomes
you
expect
from
different
functional
groups
and
things
there,
but
just
a
kind
of
a
refresher
on
that.
Just
in
case
it
helps
I.
A
Think
that
drives
well
with
I
think
it
was
something
Kirsten
said.
Last
time
we
met
was
around
like
I,
try
and
think
about
who
cares
about
each
row
if
somebody
said
that
made
that
astute
realization
and
I
think
that
that
idea
of
like
what
defines
a
row,
is
it
a
combination
of
who
cares
had
said
that
I
don't
know,
but
but
yeah
like
I
think
that
getting
Clarity
on
what
defines
a
row
like
what
is
the
characteristics
of
a
row
will
help
us
figure
out
how
to
clarify
the
rows.
I
think.
G
So,
like
I'd,
be
like
I
think
like
I,
just
understood
like
the
rule,
number
four
is
actually
it's
telling
consumers
about
the
road
map
about
the
stuff
or
the
product
is
actually
in
the
pipeline
or
how
they
eventually
like
there's
two
things
to
look
at
it.
The
row
three
is
for
the
consumer
perspective
of
using
the
platform
and
row,
four
is
for
the
producer
and
we
is
telling
them
the
correct
way
or
the
obvious
ladder
to
follow
to
add
services
for
the
platform,
so
that
is
actually
I.
G
Think
the
goal
here,
according
to
the
understanding
of
mine,
so
I,
think
right
now.
There's
the
terms
proact
log
roadmap
and
strategy
is
a
bit
weirdly
for
the
conversation
around
producer,
because
sometimes
people
I
really
look
at
the
articles
that
read
it
when
they
often
talking
about
the
for
the
road
map,
they're
talking
about
vision
and
goals,
they're
talking
about
committed
to
Excellence
support
and
resources
and
flexibility,
adoptability
and
those
are
the
words
now
we
can't
add
so
many
of
these
words
in
here,
but
the
backlog
roadmap.
G
It's
very
difficult
to
understand
from
these
words,
so
we
have
to
be
more
generic
in
terms
of,
and
then
there's
a
reactive
and
tactical
and
responsive
and
in
the
third
category
we
see
proactive,
strategic
and
evolutionary
I
think
the
term
committed
to
Excellence
can
be
fit
and
they
actually
overlapping
with
these
words,
but
it's
very
more
genetic
than
to
this,
so
I
think
right
now
this
is
is
this
is
the
Row
4
is
actually
a
need
to
have
more
investment
and
we
need
to
more
have
we
have
to
research
more
on
this
topic,
because
currently,
if
you're
not
challenging
me,
this
is
the
rule.
E
L
No,
no
I
just
wanted
to
go
out
what
Eddie,
just
added,
where
we
were
commenting
off
and
on
a
couple
weeks
ago
about
the
product
mindset
which
is
in
in
in
the
way
I
read
it
is,
is
exactly
what
this
world
is
about.
What
what
this
role
is
about
and
I
can
share
like
from
a
lot
of
organization,
I've
seen
it's.
It's
really
shifted
from
the
reactive
tactical
side
or
even
the
the
the
I
know.
L
Best
kind
of
thing
like
I
would
tell
you
how
to
use
my
how
you
should
use
a
platform
and
why
I
build
the
way
I
build
it,
where
all
the
where,
if
you
compare
all
the
like
towards
the
other
end,
the
platform
as
a
product
is
now
I.
Listen
to
you,
the
consumers
and
I'm
building
stuff
I'm
building
things.
Services
pave
paths
that
really
designed
to
help
you
deliver
your
job
so
and
you
know
being
being
on
both
sides
of
the
equations.
I
K
Sorry
I
just
wanted
to
just
read
out
I
guess
what
I
just
put
in
the
chat.
So
a
platform
team
can
streamline
the
cognitive
workload
to
improve
user
experience,
so
this
is
from
user
perspective
and
then
strategize
the
product
roadmap
to
make
a
solid
platform.
So
streamlining
and
strategy
probably
will
work.
L
Another
another
option
is
to
like
another
way
to
read:
it
is,
is
to
read
it
from
the
team
topologies
book
where
they're
talking
about
the
four
different
kind
of
things
themes
and
then
towards
the
end.
They
also
recognize
that
the
platform
team
wears
two
hats,
where
the
second
one
is
a
stream
online
team
delivering
features
and
values
to
the
organization,
their
consumers.
Their
customers
are
internal,
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
they
don't
have.
A
Customers
in
some
ways,
I
wonder
yeah
I,
wonder
if
that
they'll
change
on
V2
of
their
book
in
some
of
these
things,
but
so
Robert
I
see
you're
hand
raised
I
want
you
to
have
time,
but
then
everyone
else
be
thinking
we're
at
a
point
where
we
need
where
I'd
like
to
ask
the
question
of:
where
are
people
uncomfortable
with
the
direction
of
travel
for
this
row
right
so
again,
I
know
that
we
don't
have
a
word
yet.
A
So,
yes,
Robert
go
and
everyone
else
be
thinking.
Is
there
anything
that
you're
uncomfortable
with
on
the
kind
of
direction
of
travel.
H
Yeah,
so
I
I
just
wanted
to
point
out
that
the
more
people
are
speaking
about
this.
The
more
people
are
not
internalizing,
I'm
good,
you
know
contemplating
and
and
vocalizing
what
their
thoughts
are
it.
It's
really
hard
for
me
to
hear
anything
other
than
this
is
the
strategy.
H
Is,
is
really
hard
for
me
to
see
how
how
this
can
be
anything
and
strategy,
because
it's
literally
that
the
a
backlog
roadmap,
those
these
are
tools
that
you
use
to
achieve
your
strategy.
A
I'm
very
comfortable,
my
personal
opinion
is
I'm
very
comfortable,
removing
backlog
and
roadmap.
As
the
current
title
options
I
wanted
to
capture
the
idea
in
here
of
product
mindset,
which
we
now
have
as
a
separate
option.
So
I
feel
like
the
comment
thread,
is
no
longer
bringing
anything
additional
I
do
think
strategy
and
product
mindset.
A
There's
still
some
open
questions
there
and
I
want
to
leave
space
for
those
conversations
and
for
that
to
that
to
percolate,
but
I
I
feel
like
I'm
hearing
quite
strongly
from
people
that
backlogs
and
road
maps
are
examples
of
tools
versus
product
mindset
and
strategy
are
are
arguably
higher
level.
We
don't
know
which
one
yet
is
the
right
one,
so
I'm
getting
some
nods
is
anyone.
So
this
is
where
I
ask
is
anyone?
A
B
Very
quickly,
I
think
my
only
concern
is.
It
doesn't
feel
clear
to
me
when
we're
thinking
about
strategy
or
product
mindset.
Are
we
thinking
about
just
from
like
a
shared,
just
platform,
point
of
view
of
like
how
we
want
to
add
to
the
platform
I
heard
kind
of
cross
talk
about
like
how
do
we
take
on
work
for
the
pen
like
the
products
that
are
relying
on
the
platform?
Are
we
just
all
of
them
together,
like
producers,
consumers
or
just
the
roadmap,
entirely
I
think
that's
kind
of
what
it's
coming
down
to
or.
A
A
It
was
in
the
description,
so
they'd
be
making
clear
who,
who
is
I,
knew
it
see.
This
is
why
I
typed
so
much
we'll
come
back
around
to
everything.
Eventually,
sorry
I
want
to
include
what
you
were
saying
and
what
you're
saying
there
is
like.
What
does
this
incorporate?
Is
it
like
it.
B
I'm
sorry
Target
of
this
strategy,
who
is
who's
the
strategy
targeting
and
it
may
be
like
more
broad
of
like
it's
targeting
all
parties
involved,
I-
think
that's
where
we're
more
so
leaning
towards,
but
yeah
I
think
it's
just
unclear
to
me
like
who
this
is
meant
for.
F
I
I
dropped
in
the
graphic
just
for
fun
because
it
also
came
up.
Someone
mentioned
earlier
skateboarded
car
right.
It's
it's
to
me
that
reflects
these
one
to
four
stages:
right
it
like
it
eats
these
times.
It's
a
product,
that's
solving
some,
you
it's
addressing
some
user
Journey,
and
it's
just
like.
If
you,
if
you
try
to
go
straight
to
car,
you
will
fail
right,
and
so
how
are
you
going
to
evolve
to
the
through
these
different
stages
and
each
of
those
requires
having
a
product
mindsets
that
you
meet?
F
F
You
know
strategy
also
works.
These
are
I,
don't
have
a
I,
don't
I
don't
know
yet
what
the
right
label
is
for
this,
but
they
feel
like
we're
at
least
triangulating
on
some
Concepts.
H
I
I
would
agree,
but
but
I
think
I
think
you
would
have
to
get
to
that
and
and
set
that
as
the
the
the
direction
that
you
want
to
go
in.
A
The
the
reality
is,
there's
a
lot
of
words
and
a
lot
of
inputs
going
into
this
and
I'm
really
glad
it's
recorded
So
that
we
have
the
chance
to
like
re-rehear
in
people's
owns
words,
what
they
were
thinking
when
they
were
making
suggestions
right
versus,
like
what
I
happen,
to
manage
to
type
fast
enough
to
try
and
capture
in
the
right
spot,
but
like
I,
think
what
we're
going
to
end
up
with
is
an
attempt
to
try
and
boil
down
the
row
to
a
word.
We're
gonna
have
to
pick
a
word
and
a
description.
A
That's
like
kind
of
one
sentence.
What
are
we
trying
to
capture
here
and
then
revisit
it
again
and
there's
gonna
have
to
be
that
attempt
to
kind
of
like
diverge
and
converge
and
like
this?
Is
our
Divergence
like
we're
trying
to
capture
how
are
people
thinking
and
what
are
people
thinking
and
then
we're
gonna
have
to
go
okay?
How
do
we
capture
all
that
into
something
that
is
capturable
on
this
table,
knowing
that
it
will
be
imperfect?
A
And
that's
why
we're
going
to
have
the
paragraphs
down
below
that
are
going
to
talk
about
that
nuance
and
are
going
to
bring
in
those
ideas
of
like
the
actions
that
you
do
and
and
those
kinds
of
things
so,
yes,
cool?
What
other
concerns
do
people
have
around
directional
travel
for
this
one
before
we
move
on
to
the
next
row,.
A
Marcia
I'm
going
to
capture
those
categories
in
the
thing
up
here
which
is
sort
of
on
what
Colin
was
saying
so
like.
If
we
go
more
like
the
cnmm,
so
the
cloud
native
majority
model,
then
maybe.
F
A
I
think
it's
I
think
it's
great
and
like
I
think
that
if
we
come
out
of,
if
we
end
up
publishing
a
maturity
model,
that
has
none
of
the
original
rows,
because
what
those
original
conversations
drove
was
a
better
like
domain
grouping
of
things.
That
would
be
a
humongous
success
of
the
working
group
right
so
like
there
are.
A
The
value
of
having
concrete
things
is
that
we
can
challenge
them,
and
so
thank
you,
Josh
that
people
like
I
think
that
the
first
version
of
this
paper
was
quite
concrete,
which
is
what
has
created
fairly
strong
reactions
from
people
which
is
going
to
allow
us
to
drive
the
a
better
domain.
Modeling
of
this
right
and
so
I
think
this
is
all
part
of
the
journey,
in
my
opinion,
so
this
is.
This
is
all
really
good.
A
All
right,
I
haven't
given
any
space,
so
I'm
going
to
give
now
five
seconds
if
anyone
has
any
reason
why
they
feel
like
they're
uncomfortable
the
direction
of
travel
of
this
one.
Obviously
you'll
be
uncomfortable
with
some
of
the
words
but
the
direction
of
travel.
Please
please
do
share.
So
we
can
capture
that.
A
Okay,
then
I'm
again,
please
continue
to
raise
them
as
it
happens,
but
I'll
move
on
for
now.
So
the
next
row
is
the
again
I'm
going
to
talk
about
what
the
intention
is
more
than
what
the
words
say,
because
the
words
have
shifted
from
the
original
wording,
but
I
think
the
intention
is:
is
it's
all
in
an
attempt
to
capture
that
intention,
the
intention
being
about
how
and
I
think
actually
Marsh?
You
brought
this
up
earlier
today.
A
This
idea
of
like
there
is
how
the
team
works
and
then
there's
how
the
environment
around
the
team
support
success
of
that
team
right.
So
when
you
think
about
like
a
career
development
of
an
individual,
you
think
about
like
a
junior
Dev
cares
like
is
all
about
making
themselves
effective.
Then
you
kind
of
get
to
A,
Team
level
level.
Effectiveness,
then
maybe
in
a
department
level,
then
maybe
an
org
level
and
then
maybe
industry-wide
right
and
that's
sort
of
one
way.
You
can
look
at
the
maturity
of
a
individual
contributor
over
time.
A
This
is
taking
into
trying
to
bring
to
the
Forefront
the
fact
that,
for
a
mission
of
supporting
an
internal
set
of
capabilities
via
platforms
or
otherwise,
how
your
organization
interacts
with
you
and
interacts
with
that
internal
thing
like
how
is
organized
matters
by
blabbering
attempt
not
to
use
all
the
words
in
that
row
is
complete
Robert.
What's
up.
H
I'm
not
a
100
sure
about
the
wording
in
the
the
title
and
itself
and
what's
and
what
a
better
position
would
be,
but
when
I
look
at
what
we
have
and
where
we're
at
right
now
and
then
seeing
past
that
took
the
next
two
rows,
I
feel
that
the
two
next
rows
are
kind
of
redundant.
At
this
point,
I
think
we
I
think
at
that
point.
We
captured
everything
these.
H
H
If
not,
you
know
again
again
it's
something
that
I
feel
that
it
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
be
in
this
type
of
maturity
model,
because
that
could
mean
a
lot
of
things
in
different
scenarios
and
the
integration
part
again
I
feel
is
kinda
in
the
user.
H
Experience
which
we
mentioned
before
so
I
feel
that
if
we
have
investment,
the
adoption,
the
strategy,
user
experience
and
now
potentially
an
organizational
elements
that
shows
as
to
what
do
we
as
a
community,
feel
that
is
kind
of
like
the
highest
level
of
structure,
organizational
structure
that
makes
sense
for
platform
development
I
think
we
I
think
we
have.
H
Basically
the
matured
model
like
essentially
and
it's
yeah
and
and
I
I
I
feel
that
it's
going
to
be
a
little
bit
hard
with
word
in
here,
because
the
technical
team,
topology
team
topology,
if
he's
just
say,
team,
topology,
you're
gonna,
specifically
reference
a
book.
H
And
organizational
structure
also
feels
it's
it's
a
little
bit
too
heavy,
it's
it's,
but
it's,
but
it's
more
descriptive
than
technical
team
topology,
because
you
know
like
I,
said
at
that
point:
we're
basically
just
referencing
a
book
or
a
wording
that
came
from
a
book.
K
Not
sure
topology
change
and
re
a
structure
change
is
all
about
corporate
realignment.
So
maybe
alignment.
H
I,
like
alignments
a
lot
more
again,
if
we're
trying
to
and
I
see
a
hands
up,
I'm
not
going
to
talk
that
much
I'm
going
to
try
to
be
quick
about
it.
If
we
come
back
again
to
the
to
the
the
ghettos
principles
it
is,
we
try.
We
try
to
have
like
a
very
concrete
word
for
each
principle
and
then
build
it
out
with
a
little
bit
of
flavor
text.
I
H
Still
not
as
long
as
it's
an
easy
to
read
sentence
if
we
think
investment,
adoption
user
experience,
strategy,
alignments
that
started
to
sound
like
something
very
specific,
you
could
reference
right
and
so
I.
Like
the
word
alignment,
a
lot.
A
Yeah
I
think
just
to
be
clear.
That
is
Our
intention
to
get
there.
It's
the
the
table
currently
contains
a
lot
more
information,
because
it's
us
trying
to
capture
we
don't
yet
have
it.
You
know
that
that
old,
saying
of
like,
if
I
had
more
time,
I
would
have
written
you
a
shorter
letter.
It's
like
that
like
right.
A
Now
we're
not
yet
at
a
point
where
we
can
go
to
one
word
in
all
the
categories,
because
we
don't
yet
have
that
alignment
of
what
we're
trying
to
get
across
and
therefore
that,
like
deep
dive
onto
that
one
word,
but
yes,
100
just
reiterating
that
is
absolutely
where
we're
gonna
get
to
or
where
I
I
suspect
we
are
traveling.
I
I
intend
to
travel
yeah.
I
L
L
I
I,
remember:
I,
don't
remember:
I
had
this
conflict
in
my
mind,
the
first
time
already
like
they
read
the
whole
dog,
the
the
draft,
but
now
this
road,
the
the
the
alignment
one
and
the
user
experience
interface.
All
these
kind
of
things
like
has
some
overlapping,
at
least
in
my
view,
because
the
way
I
see
like,
if
you
think
about
user
experience,
a
document
documenting
and
then
on
this
side,
we're
just
let's
leave
aside
the
world
that
we
want
to
give
for
this.
L
For
this
section,
what
we're
calling
out
the
the
progression
of
of
how
platform
expose
their
services?
It's
it.
It
kind
of
read
the
same,
maybe
I'm
completely
off,
but
there's
no
one-to-one
mapping,
but
it
it
feels
some
somewhat
related.
So
I
wonder
if
others
see
the
same
and
whether
we
should
combine
those
two
together
or.
A
A
You're,
bringing
up
a
good
point
of
user
onboarding
and
documentation
we've
been
trying
to
do
a
bit
of
a
culling
of
like
we
don't
want
activities
to
be
the
like
header
word
or
like
or
read
or
like
something
you
might
produce
to
be,
like
the
header
word,
so
I
think
those
are
are.
Maybe
we
got
better
about
that
as
time
went
on
so
I
think
in
my
opinion,
user
onboarding
and
documentation
are
things
that
would
be
addressed
within
the
squares
like
within
the
like
row.
A
Columns
I
meant
not
a
header
for
the
whole
row,
and
so
that
doesn't
reduce
the
question.
You're
asking
just
to
be
clear.
I
hear
that
there's
a
question
of
does
that
entire
row
overlap
with
the
row
we're
talking
about
right
now,
but.
L
A
H
I
I
think
I
understand
where
you're
coming
from,
but
if
you
start
thinking
in
the
lines
of
user
experience
being
the
potential
experience
of
a
developer
or
your
consumer
of
the
platform
trying
to
do
something
which
is
which
is
something
that
will
be
affected
by
how
much
adoption
you
have
now
many
are
using
it
and
and
strategy,
like
only
is
kind
of
tied
together
in
some
aspects,
but
if
we
try
to
distill
what
is
the
user
experience
of
using
this
platform
versus?
H
How
is
the
organization
around
or
how
is
your
organization
set
up
for
consuming
a
platform
or
not
consume
a
platform
like
who
is
responsible
for
what
part?
How
much
should
be
in
the
platform
bone
and
so
forth?
H
H
How
can
you
then
create
a
platform
for
your
developers
to
not
be
responsible
for
how
stuff
is
running,
but
just
how
are
you
using
the
platform,
it's
kind
of
like
again
the
same
like
that
type
of
maturity
model
like
if
you
put
into
perspective
that
the
public
Cloud
providers
are
very
mature
platform
service
and
you
want
to
make
it
easier
for
your
developers
that
is
kind
of
the
same
direction.
You're
going
in
right.
L
So
you
you
basically
call
out
and
I
think
like
this
is
if
I
extract
one.
One
word
from
your
answer
is
responsibility
and
I'm
coming
for
May
the
worst
and
we
have
the
shadows
I'm
not
saying
like
we
should
use
that,
but
the
shared
responsibility
model
explicitly
calls
out
was
on
me
on
as
a
platform
and
what's
on
you
as
a
consumer,
yes
and
there's
a
contract
which
both
of
you
like
most
of
us
agree
as
as
the
provider
and
the
consumer
like
this,
the
contract.
H
Yes
and
I
think
that
might
be
something
to
take
into
consideration
when
we're
trying
to
figure
out
what
to
call
this
type
of
level.
H
A
We
rely
on
the
cloud
providers
right
so
I
think
that
that
is
a
activity
and
a
resource
that
is
like
hugely
valuable
in
the
space
that
we're
in
so
I'm
really
glad.
You
brought
that
up,
because
I
think
that
that
is
like
a
a
tenant
of
of
being
a
platform
is
that
you
can
tell
people
what
you
own
and
what
I
own-
and
this
is
where,
when
I
think
Robert
was
was
saying
earlier,
he
was
confused
by
templates
being
more
mature
than
apis.
A
Pretty
sure
that
was
a
shift
just
out
from
under
I
didn't
notice
it
because
I
would
have
been
on
the
same
page
as
you
of
like
I
would
have
asked
the
same
questions
because
with
a
template
who
owns
the
thing
you're
creating
from
that
template
who
owns
the
updating
of
that
template,
like
you,
forked
that
code,
so
you
own
it
because
it's
your
fork
like
I,
don't
know,
and
so
with
an
API
there's
a
clear
contract
there
or
there
there's
the
potential
for
a
clear
contract.
L
This
is
what
you
meant
Robert,
but
like
responsibility
and
how
the
responsibility
gradually
shift
from
eye
ability
to
run
it.
You
just
call
it
out
here
and
it's
it's
like
in
every
second
English
impose
out
there
do
I
have,
does
it
mean
really
mean
I
did
I,
run
it
or
there's
some
high
level
of
obstructions
that
I
believe
that
I
run
it
I
have
the
tooling
to
run
it.
But
if
something
fails
on
the
back
on
the
back
end
of
it,
I
can
still
have
an.
L
H
I
would
I
would
say
that
the
the
responsibility
Matrix
and
the
things
that
you're
mentioning
now
would
again
be
a
a
doing
thing
like.
If
you
get
to
a
certain
level
of
maturity,
you
should
probably
have
a
responsibility
model.
I,
don't
think
the
the
this
particular
line
is
about
responsibility,
but
it
comes
very
much
into
it
when,
as
you
mature
in
the
start,
it's
basically
the
wild
west.
You
know
you
know
who's
responsible
for
what
we
have
no
idea,
because
everyone,
just
you
know,
are
you
know
arguing
about
that?
H
H
It
just
makes
sense
what
Microsoft,
Amazon
or
Google
is
responsible
for
when
you're
deploying
your
stuff
on
their
platform,
you
know
because
it
is,
it
is
a
platform
as
a
service.
So
you
put
in
your
things
you
you
have
to
protect
your
data.
Besides
that
they're
taking
care
of
the
rest,
if
you're
doing
the
infrastructure,
you
know
as
a
service
part,
you
have
more
responsibility
that
shifts
towards
you.
L
G
L
G
Absolutely
absolutely
so,
let's
Abby
and
like
I,
think
I
think,
like
I'm
actually
agreed
with
what
how
Psy
I
think
is
correctly
named
to
pronounce
it.
G
Okay,
so
I'm
actually
totally
agreed.
It
was
I
said
it's
more
oriented
toward
team
interaction,
it's
not
about
structuring,
because
the
reason
is
that
I'm
actually
from
the
debate
is,
let's
say
you
are
the
producer
of
the
platform
and
I
want
to
appreciate
your
platform
and
then
I
made
a
team
that
is
actually
is
actually
interacting
with
the
platform
and
they
have
their
needs.
That
is
actually
solving.
G
So,
if
we're
talking
about
the
organization
structure,
a
lot
of
the
company
I'm
actually
happened
to
work
with
whether
we're
selling
the
platform
for
the
Enterprises
and
the
Enterprise
has
their
developers,
their
customers,
and
once
you
actually
bought
the
platform,
then
a
platform
is
actually
eventually
grows
in
time.
Let's
say
today
you
have
policy
engines
tomorrow,
you
add
service
matches.
Later
you
add
git,
Ops
and
monitoring
Observer
data.
Let's
say
you
take
it
down
the
road
now.
G
You
right
are
responsibilities
and
structuring
Alignment,
so
I
think
for
the
next
few
rows,
it's
better
to
have
one
row.
Let's
talk
about
the
organization
structure
and
the
one
we're
actually
talking
about
is
organization
communication.
You
can
call
it
or
the
interaction
we
can
call
it.
A
This
is
going
right
now,
where
it's
we
are
doing,
I
think
the
group
is
doing
a
really
good
job
of
sussing
out,
where,
like
buzzwords
and
like
techniques
or
whatever
have
like
snuck
into
generic
titles
of
things
and
I,
think
that
this
one
is
an
example
of
that
and
I
think
that
that,
like
responsibility,
Matrix
thing
and
what
you're
talking
about
saim
and
what
you
talked
about,
sahi
and
and
Robert
like
are
good
examples
of
where
we've
kind
of
sussed
out
like
this
isn't
about
Dev
versus
Ops
and
his
devops
dead.
A
What
I
so
I
do
want
to?
We
have
eight
minutes
left
and
I
do
want
to
because
I've
heard
a
couple
people
be
like.
Oh,
it
sounds
like
this
cross-functional
representation
I
feel
quite
comfortable
the
integration,
the
final
one.
We
don't
need
to
talk
about
because
Josh,
as
the
author
of
that
was
like
that
falls
into
what
we
were
talking
about
up
with
user
experience,
so
I'm
comfortable
moving
that
to
another
conversation.
A
If
we
want
to
keep
talking
about
it
but
cross
functional
representation,
I
think
has
been
looked
at
as
redundant
a
few
times
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
the
intention
is
there
and
it
can
still
be
considered
redundant.
But
I
don't
know
if
the
intention
I've
heard
in
why
other
people
think
is
redundant.
The
intention
here
is
that
there's
a
lot
of
pressure
on
the
producers
of
capabilities.
The
producers
of
these
platform
offerings
internal
offerings.
A
To
basically
like
do
everything
and
like
there's
a
lot
of
conversation
like
our
platform,
Engineers
infrastructure,
Engineers
or
should
platform
Engineers
be
building
on
top
of
what
other
infrastructure
Engineers
are
providing
in
the
way
of
virtual
machines
and
kubernetes
clusters,
and
whatever,
like,
should
one
team
own.
The
creation
of
the
infrastructure
and
the
like
productizing
of
access
to
that
infrastructure
by
internal
teams
and
I
think
that
the
cross-functional
representation
this
row
quite
possibly
very
poorly
described.
A
The
intention
of
it
is
to
say
that
the
that
there
is
a
there
is
not
an
ex.
What
is
the
expectation
on
the
creators
of
these
internal
experiences,
these
internal
capabilities,
to
manage
all
complexities
to
manage
the
security
requirements,
the
performance
requirements,
the
auditing
requirements,
the
infrastructure
requirements
like
should
do?
A
They
have
to
become
experts
and
implementers
of
all
of
these
policies
and
requirements,
or
is
part
of
their
role
to
create
a
essentially
a
second
class
of
users
for
their
platforms,
which
is
a
way
in
which
they
can
enable
non-software
Engineers
to
apply
their
Specialties
to
the
consumers
of
the
platform
right.
So
you
actually
have
this
like
Marketplace,
essentially
of
a
platform
and.
H
I
I
think
the
things
you're
saying
now
fits
in
through
the
platform
as
a
product
strategy
that
is
I
feel
that
that
is
part
of
that
strategy,
not
necessarily
something
that
has
a
least
or
most
mature
level.
H
I
think
that
it's
you
need
to
get
to
that
point
to
be
at
the
top
of
the
scale
of
maturity
or
strategy.
H
You
need
to
again
you
don't
you,
don't
necessarily
have
to
have
security,
it
would
help,
but
you
don't
necessarily
depending
on
the
company
again
organization
it
you
don't
necessarily
have
to
have
someone
that,
specifically
in
like
information,
security
or
something
like
that,
but
you
should
be
able
to
be
able
to
get
in
that
input
from
the
people
who
are
responsible
for
that
and
make
sure
that,
on
a
technical
level,
that
is
taken
care
of.
H
So
it's
easy
for
the
company
to
use
your
platform
in
a
safe
manner
as
fitted
by
your
whoever
is
in
charge
of
security,
which
is
again
why
I
kind
of
feel
like
the
two
last
rows
are
redundant
because
they
they
fit
into
some
of
the
other
levels
in
the
difference
strategies.
A
H
A
H
I
I
think
we
could
I
think
if
the
the
the
every
world
before
that
makes
sense
as
a
grand
category
or
whatever
we
would
call
it
and
then,
like
cross-functional
representation,
feels
like
a
sub
maturity
level
like
a
a
maybe
that
that
that
kind
of
fits
into
several
categories.
H
It's
not
one
of
the
main
categories
of
of
becoming
a
mature
and
having
a
mature
platform.
It
is
some
of
the
things
you
need
to
go
through
and
I
feel
that
the
way
again,
the
wording
here
when
it
comes
to
cross-functional
representation,
I,
don't
know
which
one
of
these
is
more
mature,
because
I
feel
that
this
kind
of
depends
on
the
organization.
I
H
It's
kind
of
hard
to
have
a
definitive
starting
at
one,
going
to
number
four
on
something
like
cross-functional
representation,
because
I
I
don't
think
that
exists
to
be
honest
like
that,
is
not
something
I
would
promote
when
I'm
talking
to
a
client
about
creating
a
platform
team
I
you
would
have
to
you
would
have
to
think
about
how
you're
supposed
to
do
that
within
the
com.
You
know
within
your
organization,
I,
don't
think,
there's
a
Better
or
Worse
way
of
doing
it.
H
So
again,
that's
why
I
kind
of
come
back
to
the
like
investment
adoption,
streamlining
strategy,
alignment
or
or
team.
You
know,
organization,
structure,
whatever
I
think
those
are.
That
is
the
maturity
model
in
my
head,
and
then
we
have
the
other
two
that
I
feel
is
actually
like
a
sub
category
in
multiple
of
the
others.
It's
hard
to
have
that
as
its
own
category.
From
here.
G
Think
we
don't
need
a
separate
cross
cross-platform
or
the
cross
communication
or
anything,
or
rather
we
can
actually
add
or
actually
encapsulate
the
same
input
in
here,
because
that's
where
very
important
we
interact
with
telling
for
the
program
maturity
model,
how
the
user
experience
would
look
like
and
somewhere.
We
need
to
capture
like
if
we
talk
about
interfaces
for
the
third
party,
tooling,
we're
talking
about
friction
reduction,
cognitive
load
when
we
talk
about
I,
think
interruptability,
so
something
I,
I
think
added
in
here.
G
If
you
can
create
a
separate
list,
then
this
list
is
keep
on
growing
you're
talking
about
cross
a
cross-platform
or
cross
communication,
then
there's
a
thing
coming
up
like.
Are
they
talking
about
Services
infrastructure
or
tonight?
If
you
didn't
actually
end
up
in
in
tooling
categories,
so
I
think
we
don't
need
a
separate
role.
We
need
a
one
column
to.
A
Be
added
yeah,
so
I've
got
that
added
now
in
three
places
under
the
investment
under
the
user
experience
which
and
under
the
strategy
which
I
realize
we
don't
have
final
words
for
those
but
yeah
I,
think
those
are
three
three
examples
for
sure.
So
we're
at
the
time
for
two
hours,
so
I'm
sure
everyone
needs
a
bit
of
a
leg,
leg
stretch
and
a
brain,
a
brain,
relax
but
I
super
appreciate
everyone.
A
Who's
spent
any
amount
of
time
on
this
call,
let
alone
the
people
who
have
been
the
Troopers
for
the
full
two
hours
with
me.
I
appreciate
that
wildly.
My
thought
is:
is
that
I'm
going
to
leave
the
space
open
right
now,
if
anyone
does
have
the
time
to
again
raise
any
concerns
with
the
direction
of
travel,
but
it
feels
like
we've
done
a
really
good
job
of
like
kind
of
diverging,
with
lots
of
words
and
lots
of
conversation.
We
sort
of
need
to
create
another
straw.
A
A
Maybe
the
things
down
the
side
should
be
like
the
very
high
level
organization
technology
process
right,
so
this
could
be
wildly
different
or
it
could
be
fairly
the
same,
but
just
kind
of
wordsmithing
I
haven't
had
no
idea
yet.
A
My
brain
needs
time
to
to
think
through
all
of
this
really
good
information,
if
anyone
would
like
to
do
that,
try
their
own
hand
at
that
huge,
huge
suggestion
that
you
do
and
again
I
think
what
we're
trying
to
get
to
now
is
like
this
has
been
a
information
gathering
session,
but
the
only
way
we
can
really
determine
if
we
are
hearing
the
same
thing
that
people
are
saying
like
actually
shared
understanding
here
is,
if
we
put
new
words
in
front
of
people
with
concrete
ideas
and
challenge,
did
this
capture
your
essence?
A
Did
this
capture
your
targeting,
so
I
will
put
this
into
the
the
slack
Channel
as
well,
but
I
encourage
anyone
to
take
their
their
attempt
to
with
the
inputs
from
this
call
create
a
like
straw,
man
model
in
a
separate
document.
Please
don't
try
and
completely
rewrite
the
table
in
this
document
and
then
the
next
time
that
we
find
time
to
talk
to
each
other
again.
A
A
G
No
I
think
that's
a
very
convenient
approach
to
follow.
I
think
that's.
It
makes
a
lot
of
sense
because
some
people
have
their
different
opinions
on
mine
and
having
all
the
information
in
the
same
place
is
difficult
to
read:
I
think
it's
a
having
a
copy
in
everyone's,
their
Google
shoot
or
anywhere.
You
know
their
laptop.
They
can
add
those
values
in
it
and
then
we
can
share
with
the
our
internal
branding.
I
think
that's!
That's
gave
us
a
lot
because
right
now
the
the
issue
is
that
there's
a
lot
of
conversation
happening.
G
A
lot
of
suggestions
are
happening.
It
may
feel
like
one
place
where
we
can
actually
becomes
exploded
with
a
lot
of
information,
so
I
think
having
a
copy
is
more
more
easier
one,
but
I
definitely
do
what
Abby
said
like
I
will
take
a
copy
of
it
and
then
I
add
some
of
the
stuff
in
here,
but
I
think,
like
I,
think
we
going
forward.
A
All
of
that
for
just
to
be
clear,
I'm
not
going
to
put
rules
around
anybody
at
this
point
other
than
I'm
the
only
one
with
edit
rights
to
this
document
me
and
Josh,
I
think
and
I'm
not
going
to
accept
any
suggestions
that
are
like
rewriting
the
whole
table.
That's
the
only
place
where
I'm
going
to
exert
any
level
of
of
authority
is
that
I'm
not
gonna.
A
Have
anyone
rewriting
the
table
in
this
document,
but
what
I
might
do
is
I
might
start
up
a
Google,
Sheets
and
I'll
create
a
sheet
and
put
my
name
on
it
and
if
other
people
want
to
add
a
sheet
and
that
be
like
open
editable
and
if
people
want
to
add
a
sheet
and-
and
that
way
it's
just
it's
just
a
spot
for
you
to
for
each
individual
person
to
Think
Through.
A
How
would
they
do
it
and
then
we
can
possibly
create
sort
of
like
a
gallery
of
them
essentially
and
and
be
able
to
maybe
grab
from
there
to
again
what
we're
trying
to
get
to
is
we've
been
diverging.
How
do
we
converge
on
something
that
is
closer
to
what
we
want
to?
Actually
publish,
even
if
it's
you
know,
still
needs
a
bit
of
molding,
so.
H
I
I
I
think
all
of
these
ideas
are
good.
I
I
also
would
kind
of
suggest
that
we
try
to
in
the
same
fashion
as
you
would
kind
of
do
blind
reviews
of
of
presentations
during
the
cfp
review
type
thing
where
you
know
so
so
that
you
don't
necessarily
if
everyone's
starting
to
do
this
in
the
same
sheet
different
pages,
you
are
bound
to
start
looking
at
what
other
people
are
doing
and
that
kind
of
shift
your
ideas
that
and
that
might
be
good.
H
But
at
the
same
time,
if
you
can
do
it
like
just
based
on
what
your
opinion
is,
I
I
would
try
to
just
like
sit
down
and
make.
This
is
the
matured
models
as
I
see
it,
and
then,
when
you
start
compare
it,
it
would
be
very
obvious.
These
are
the
things
that
everyone
agrees
with
yeah,
not
just
because
they
get
swayed
by
someone
else's
opinion.
A
So
yeah
we
can
create
maybe
like
a
Google
Drive
like
directory
and
let
people
and
and
say,
there's
basically
a
deadline
of
dropping
something
in
there
for
not
a
deadline
forever,
but
a
deadline
for
the
next
call.
Do
we
feel
like
that's
something
that
we
want
to
like.
So
this
is
the
type
of
thing
where,
if
you
give
it
it,
it's
like
it's
water,
it
will
fill
the
cup
right.
A
If
we
give
it
a
month,
people
will
spend
29
days
doing
nothing
and
then
try
and
do
something
on
the
30th
day
to
submit
it.
Okay,
maybe
I'm
speaking
for
my
own
experience
but
like
so.
What
do
we
think
is
a
reasonable
amount
of
time,
given
that
it's
not
an
easy
task,
but
it's
also
not
that
we're
asking
someone
to
create
the
the
thing
that
can
be
published.
It's
more
like.
A
H
I
I,
like
quoting
laws,
so
Parkinson's
law.
You
know
the
time
that
you
alluded
to.
It
is
what
it's
going
to
take
so
I
I
feel
we
just.
We
just
set
a
date
which
makes
sense
like
a
Cadence
that
makes
sense
and
and
then
just
say
you
have
until
that
point:
I
guess:
cool.
A
So
a
couple
weeks
doesn't
feel
like
that
would
be
absolutely
oppressive.
The
one
thing
I'm
looking
at
is
I'm
out
of
country
in
two
weeks.
So
if
we
want
to
set
a
Cadence
of
every
other
week,
a
fortnightly
I,
don't
know
if
I'd
be
running
a
call
from
my
holiday
and
they
either
be
slightly
shorter
or
slightly
longer
than
fortnightly.
H
I
feel,
personally
and
and
again,
I
always
speak
for
myself
that,
if
we're
doing
this
type
of
work,
having
it
getting
paced
out
too
much
might
mean
that
people
will
start
falling
off
and
not
being
able
to.
You
know,
do
like
it.
This
is
kind
of
like
a
yeah.
For
me,
it's
more
of
a
Sprint
thing
like
we
I
I
would
like
this
to
be
done
quicker
more
than
like
pacing
it
out
and
giving
people
a
lot
of
room
to
think
I.
Think
a
lot
of
people
have
been.
H
You
know
been
in
there
and
have
contributed
a
lot.
There's
always
going
to
be
room
for
people
to
protest
if
something
all
of
a
sudden
goes
in
the
wrong
direction,
because
nothing
is
going
to
get
published
until
you
know
it's
it's
put
out
there,
so
I
would
rather
have
not
two
weeks
between
calls.
I
would
rather
have
something
like
a
week
or
something
just
to
kind
of
start
hammering
you.
A
Know
it
out
cool,
then
I
will
I
will
come
up
with
a
plan
based
on
all
this
amazing
feedback
and
I
will
put
it
in
slack
so
that
anybody
who
wasn't
here
still
has
a
chance
to
participate
and-
and
obviously
people
have
had
to
leave
rightfully
so
after
two
hours.
So
all
of
that
makes
sense
to
me
Robert
and
we
just
have
to
try
right
if
it
turns
out
that
we
set
the
timing
wrong
as
in
it's
too
fast
and
people
can't
get
it
done.
A
We
move
it
and
if
it's
too
slow
and
we
start
losing
people,
we
have
to
figure
out
how
to
regain
them
right.
So
it's
just
one
of
those
like
we'll
give
it
a
shot.
So
I
will
come
up
with
a
plan
and
get
it
into
slack,
but
it
will
include
basically
a
attempt
to
enable,
like
a
blind
review
of
people's
final
drafts
post.
B
A
Of
this
input
so
that
we
can
give
people
the
chance
to
to
test
how
aligned
are
we
on
what
we're
trying
to
achieve
and
and
call
and
and
more
clearly
identify
where
there
are
still
things
we
need
to
discuss
and
things
we
need
to
align
on
which
I
think
is
the
the
outcome
we're
hoping
for.
So
yesterday,.
G
Just
a
small
small
feedback,
as
you
can
still
be
happy
like
I,
think,
like
usually
like
I,
think
the
best
is
for
in
terms
of
the
date
like.
A
No,
thank
you
all
really
appreciate.
This
is
for
everyone.
Who's
still
here
appreciate
it
and
everyone
who
hopefully
will
follow
up
on
and
finish
off
the
video
that
had
to
head
out.
This
has
been
absolutely
awesome.
It's
what
I
was
hoping
to
achieve
with
this
conversation
and
yeah
I'm
looking
forward
to
seeing
you
know
how
we
now
converge
right,
because
I
think
we're
starting
to
understand
where
we're
trying
to
get
to
conceptually.
A
But
how
do
we
Converge
on
on
specific
words,
so
amazing
I
hope
you
all
have
a
good
rest
of
the
day.