Cloud Native Computing Foundation TAG App Delivery / Cooperative Delivery WG, 25 Jul 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: WG Platforms - 2023-07-25 - Project Meeting

Description

TAG web site: https://tag-app-delivery.cncf.io/
TAG Slack channel: https://cloud-native.slack.com/archives/CL3SL0CP5
TAG git repo: https://github.com/cncf/tag-app-delivery
TAG meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OykvqvhSG4AxEdmDMXilrupsX2n1qCSJUWwTc3I7AOs/edit

A

That they are being cut.

B

Right, oh I, see because you've got the recording going for different meetings, and so you turn it off and turn it back on. For this one.

C

Basically, it starts recording as soon as someone joins, but if I stop it, then it lets it'll cut out everything till this point, but there's also the risk that I'll forget to turn it back on. So it's.

B

A tough dynamic.

C

Youtube does I mean the way the process works. It doesn't have to work this way, but at least in this tag we moved the videos over to YouTube, so um it has functionality to edit so I, sometimes you know tell it to cut the first few minutes out there.

D

C

E

C

Be a video editor. Yes,.

B

Get the small talk out of here.

A

No, it shows how how chill we are and how much we like each other, and it's very.

E

A

C

People watching the video want to see this. That's what I've always seen like. Let me at least get them to the where they want to start from I, don't even know how many people watch the video yeah you.

B

Can have like a little like label that says like Small, Talk At the beginning, and they can just go.

A

And see that I think YouTube. Does these automatic chapter thing.

B

You say the word Small Talk enough. It should pick up on it.

C

B

I will uh yeah.

C

I guess I, don't I'm, not I, don't really know how to delegate the YouTube stuff. At this point, although I'd love to figure that out but yeah, if somebody is passionate about putting in chapter markings and stuff, maybe we can figure that out.

F

uh Yes, sir Josh, like if you're like the way you do, work is like if you have slide, and it's actually capturing your words and thoughts. If you have talking like a story telling like conversation, that it can generate the uh timeline. Otherwise it's not it's not very uh heavy AI generative. So this has to be either a slide either you're talking in a very timely manner. But if you don't talk like random talks, then it won't generate any timelines.

C

That's a good tip, I guess: if we, if I posted like a slide deck, maybe you would pick up transitions there like it would say intros when we start intros and then each topic could somehow I don't know. That's interesting, yeah all these good ideas, but it's yeah hard to Implement, sometimes just trying to get by get these meetings around.

C

A

You're doing a great job, Josh well done. Thank you.

C

All right well we're at four minutes so uh I pasted in the uh pasted in the notes that people want to follow or if you want to add any agenda items.

C

um Right now, we'll start with intros. If there's anyone new, then we maybe we'll discuss the Prototype platform, which has come up a little in the slack I want to at least mention to you all the stuff about project annual reviews and then the last thing in the list here is just a couple things to make sure people see um yeah. So do we have anyone new today, I, don't I, don't think so. Unless anyone wants to.

G

One quick thing: uh we we're trying to empower our team members to join these and the app delivery meetings and cartographers and some of the other stuff really kind of helped me give some backup too, but um uh I'm trying to we're trying to kind of let people know to observe and listen first and stuff like that. But you may see uh four or five folks from our group start to join in uh on these regularly or we're trying to to get them to help out.

C

Thank you Colin, that's awesome, maybe I mean one of the things I was thinking about, for these intros is, if probably not the first time you show up but like maybe people want to tell the story of their platform or something uh or of a customer's platform. You know anonymously or something because we've been yeah I was just thinking. Maybe in this intro we could start asking people that.

H

Like tell us your interest, so.

C

We can, you know, know where to plug you in and consider telling us your story. If you have one.

F

Exactly uh yes, yes, Josh I think that's a good. If that's a good idea, if you can ask people to talk about story in a five to ten minute, not more than that. Otherwise, the whole goal could become uh less story. Lesson story lesson, but if that's the case, I am actually on this platform. Engineering, slack Channel.

C

F

There are 12 000 folks there and very good discussion happening, so I can post the link in there and that's driver the conversation forward. That's one way to catch people other than just join the call and just start listening to us.

C

It's an interesting point: that's the platform, engineering slack from the platform engineering.org you mean. Is that what you mean saying.

F

Yes, absolutely that's a wonderful! Yes, that's the one of the slack, but also there are also slag Channel, but that's not much oriented around platform Engineering in general, but they still live in the domain of the platform. Engineering like they're, smaller subset of the platforms.

C

The reason why, like I, think this is worth just talking about for a second.

H

C

Think we really want more user stories, like we tried to run the survey to kind of help with that and and we're still trying to pursue that a bit. But I tried to reach out actually this week to the folks that lead the uh the user, um the user end user group and see if we can get that way. To some end, I mean, of course we all talk in our jobs and stuff, but it would be. You know like a five minute presentation but like on the yeah, I guess: I'm I'm a.

H

C

Tiny bit worried like we don't want, like a million people showing up to tell their story and to get out of hand, but, like you know, a couple would be, would be nice. So yes, well.

F

Like I think, the other idea would be like I think like like, if folks can help us, lay down the structure of the block every time we done a meeting on this score and we can write a blog post and then we can share this on our socials and I'm also running a LinkedIn group on the platform engineer, I can post that there, as well so having a Blog to lay down what we actually discussed on the goal today and what is actually the next agenda for the next call and if people can join in and so these are the points we're looking at specifically like to mentioned.

F

The survey so main point of the doing is a survey. So blog is.

H

F

One way to fill in the gaps for the survey: okay,.

C

All right, let's yeah, let's keep thinking about that. uh Maybe we yeah, let's, let's keep I mean if there's somebody that wants to come talk to us like, maybe just they could put it in a slack or just show up and we'll ask themselves next time. That's a that's the you know.

C

If someone new here will ask each person like do you have a story, and you know here's maybe next time, maybe that's a good way to start today and if they want to trim it and slack and say oh I'm, coming and I'll tell it today, then that's another possibility.

H

One technique I've used in another event, is it's called a 99 second talk and 99 second may or may not be uh the length we want to go for, but uh I would say that a short, concise spot to be able to talk about things and making the timer visible to everybody might help with setting expectations without it being rude like with it just being like. This is the way we do these things uh and, and you have as much visibility into the timings anyone else so nobody's cutting you off.

H

It's like this is the the timer and that kind of thing just because I think yeah. If those are our goals, that might be some techniques, we could use to try and maintain it.

C

Instead of strategy, I put that down I'll try to find a way to run a timer or something here in the corner. That is a good idea. Okay, so thank you. um Let's move to the first item in the agenda, so uh we had a request and it's yeah I'm.

H

Trying to figure out.

C

Here, where to go with it, you know: Eloise had developed a master class building the kind of prototype platform for Progressive delivery and I think he was kind of suggesting. Maybe we want to build on it. um Leanne I think you've talked with him, so I was hoping. Maybe you maybe you could share what uh what the state is and if we should consider this, and maybe we can all discuss it if we think it's worth pursuing.

A

Yeah I would suggest to uh we can discuss it, but let's timebox it to like, let's say 20 minutes, because I don't think we're gonna get to a solution in this discussion, but um yeah I think it's a good point to just start. The discussion off um so yeah Alloys uh has given this um uh web. No, not webinar uh workshop on Progressive App delivery and he built this um pretty cool platform, prototype, thingy and um yeah. The idea was like what what can we do to make this kind of an.

H

Official platform.

A

Prototype another thing is: as I wrote in the slack Channel, we didn't really discuss the logistics of how to do it, um because this is my personal opinion. We have this exam exact, same discussion with uh Mauricio's prototype and there's a very good reason why this doesn't go anywhere either and always put us very well, um which is he said that things are being maintained when they're being used and almost by definition prototypes, are not something that people tend to use uh they people use and maintain products.

A

So already the question is okay: if we have this prototype, who owns it? Who would maintain it um I think we had this discussion already at kubecon. We started this discussion. We didn't get to a solution there either um and we were mainly discussing like what's the value that we actually want to provide. Is it just a showcase right, a showcase that people can just try? You know just like oh download it and then spin it up on your local environment or somewhere and then just play with it.

A

uh So if it's something like this, we should probably think about like about this as a proper, open, sourcey kind of project right where we have maintainers, who probably should be separate from this particular group.

A

um It's to be honest, I feel it's pretty difficult to get this group to do things together for long term, um especially, is there something that needs to be maintained until who knows when right we're, not planning to throw it away? I mean that the platform maturity Matrix, for example. That will be done at some point and then it's done same with the white paper. It's done at some point. I, don't see this prototype. This won't ever be done. We have to always come back um update dependencies, maybe replace tools with other tools.

A

I don't know so that was the biggest thing that we just couldn't figure out how to do or find a solution that we think will actually last a test of time. So the other thing that we were discussing was like: okay, what if we don't actually have an actual prototype that is actually workable and usable and Untouchable, but rather you we would do something like what?

A

What is your use case, and we give you like 20 questions, and then we give you like a list of tools that you can check out or, like uh I, don't know an architecture diagram or something like that, so something that is not an actual prototype. uh So we didn't really come to any solution again.

A

It was just more about what is the actual thing that we actually want to give to people, and does it have to be an actual prototype that we cannot guarantee ever will actually be maintained because no one's actually using it as a thing other than a showcase. uh So this is the I. Would I would just like open this discussion Maybe if people feel like? Oh, it doesn't matter I'm, just gonna like build something, uh maybe even say: okay on our website.

A

We have this section that is prototype exam or platform examples, and then we put examples in there from you know that just the way they are right now we just list the examples we list Mauricio's thing we list. Otherwise this thing we don't give any kind of guarantee that it's working or anything it's just a a platform or a you know: I, don't know how to how to call it uh where people can share their examples yeah. So anyone who has an opinion, please love to hear your thoughts on this.

C

I'm, actually super excited that you came to that conclusion. I kind of felt like we came to that conclusion in Amsterdam, so I actually.

H

C

Already, you know been going been digging down that path like we're not going to be able to maintain these like Potato Head. We see the same kind of thing like so instead, let's do them point in time. You know they. Last for six months we put I love the idea of like a showcase. You know, publish it on the blog. The person tells the story here. Maybe in this meeting you know we all learn from each other there. It's like a Sandbox project. It's like a way for us to learn from each other.

G

Yeah I think that was one of the original motivations for soliciting vendor input too, was kind of give them a place where they can say how does their platform products meet the white paper and some of the other things there so giving them a chance to um talk about that as well as say, hey, here's, a link to our platform; go, try it or something right.

G

D

Think that was one of the things sorry I think one of the things that we were struggling with was getting to a starting point and I. Think those uh 20 questions and answers to those being the starting point for what you want to showcase and how it relates to the efforts that are ongoing is a great idea, so at plus one that heavily.

A

Yeah, the question is just like: how do we get from the ideas to the the thing that we I mean we? It could be something simple like do. You need I.

B

A

Multi tendency on the same cluster: these are tools that you could look into right. It could be a very like I'm, always for let's do the simplest thing that we can possibly do something. That's scoped and it's done when it's done um I, that that could be something right where we, but then someone has to like set up that list, like these tools. Have these capabilities so I don't know if it's like a web form. So someone has to build that as well, but maybe it's that's, even though that seems like the quickest solution.

A

It might not be the. It might not be actually quick.

C

Hey I just thought to show this like. Is this like kind of what you're thinking about Leanne like spring initializer, where I can go in and add dependencies and they say oh I need sessions so then I recommend something and maybe a little more.

A

Yeah, that would be the I think that would be the most beautiful one right and.

B

A

If you can, just like click, generate and we'll just create the platform for you, I mean, obviously that would be the greatest thing ever but yeah, something like that would be cool Eddie.

H

Yeah I think it's awesome and I think you're, hitting on all the challenges associated with like an open source working group that isn't like building something in Anger right for a long-term use. um I do I, think I hear two different outcomes that are being teased out right now and I. Don't know if that's true so I'm gonna try my hand at it. So the first thing is I'm hearing an outcome which is we've had a lot of conversations about.

H

How do you enable people to actually be successful with the capabilities a platform needs to deliver. So how does someone who needs to worry about multi-tenancy like decide between the different cncf and other open source projects, Associated multi-tenancy or associated with persistence or associated with all these things and I? Think that, like so that's one of the conversations that I think we we want to be getting towards, and this is like those 20 questions, and can you make a bit of a like mix and match and make your own thing would be awesome.

H

The other side of it, though, the thing that I think when we talk about um like the maturity of a platform and platform as a product, and things like that that I I'm hearing separately and maybe I, was hearing Collins conversation about like giving vendors like the Forum to have a conversation about how they are pushing forward. The conversation of a mature platform model is like is different than you can have databases, it's more about the behave, the experience of a platform Builder and the experience of a platform user and those would be a different.

H

In my opinion, those are a different set of questions. Those are like how do I create a brand new application from scratch? How do I manage my application? That needs an upgrade? How do I introduce a new capability to my platform? How do I like those would be the types of the 20 questions which are slightly different from the types of the 20 questions like how do I do? Multi-Tenancy on or I do multi-tenancy on a cluster?

H

How do I do that, like so I'm wondering if we're teasing out two different like use cases and therefore two different things, but then that means two different things to maintain so I'm hoping I'm wrong. So tell me if I am uh yeah I, don't know I.

I

I agree: Abby I think those are two different things, something from like the platform user versus the platform Builder. Those are two separate things that that we tackle and I'm not sure. If you want to go to the details of providing blocks, that will be more of a product versus the ideas that we're trying to share and or the guidance that we're trying to give um yeah.

H

I think it's I think that you're 100 right, like the block details, are an opportunity, but are they for us and that it's the experience so so far and the things we've published are very high level, and none of them particularly tell you uh that, like persistence, is a must-have in your in your platform as much as the experiences to reduce the cognitive load on the users of the platform and to enable consistency, enable platform Builders to to Define, consistent, Secure Solutions right, like persistence, is something that we've articulated as a high likelihood of inclusion in your platform, but like we've, stayed away to a little bit away from being like these are the must-have capabilities and instead said these are the common capabilities um yeah.

H

I

H

Think it's that experience that we're talking about correct.

I

And I don't think we need to go to the low level of implementations. We need to keep it high, maybe maybe lower the high a little bit, but not too low to the to the details of what we were just instructing people to do. It would be too much and it will not fit the majority, because each one has their own uh choices and their own uh ways of living. Their platforms.

C

E

C

A way to experiment here like what, if we instead.

H

C

To officially bring anything in, but we could start a list of ones that we're aware of- and maybe we prereq like you gotta, come and present to us for 10 minutes and share the story here. But then you know if we're like Eloise's Potato Head, maybe Mauricio's I haven't seen that in a long time, but and they could just be a list in the website- you know maybe a little blurb about them and it's just like a loose coupling to begin with.

C

At least you know, these are things that the the group has kind of looked at and think they would be helpful.

A

um To me that sounds like the that actually sounds like the easiest thing to do, because we don't have to do much. We just have to vet them the the tools uh put them on the website, maybe tag them. You know like if we want to talk about multi-tenancy or whatever uh we can tag them, so people can like filter by tags, at least just to give them a point to start, because if you just give them a prototype- and just say this is a prototype, uh no one's gonna walk through three of them.

A

Just to see that none of them, you know, help help them with the problem that they actually have um that pounds. Okay, uh I think we also need to think about. Do we want to showcase products like complete products or uh only stuff that is uh self-built um consistent of multiple um projects, I I, that might not be super important, either way, but I think we need to at least come up with the list of requirements like what would we consider to be a platform?

A

What would we consider to be uh open source enough for us to to um showcase it on the website or wherever um yeah I'd.

H

Be sort of keen to not completely limit it to open source, especially if we're not taking on any ownership of of like owning it or whatever I think that that was one of the benefits of uh Potato Head. Like a lot of times, the the marketing machines, Behind Closed, Source SAS products are the ones that are driving the public discourse and enabling a deeper dive into how those tools actually compare to open source.

H

Solutions I think is a really like useful thing to do, because I think that it can identify where, like marketing versus reality exists and where, like ease of solution versus roll up, your sleeves exists like why you're paying for the closed Source versus what you can you know what you can imagine you could build with the open source.

H

Just it involves a bit of elbow grease like I, think I, don't know, we don't live in a world where people only use open source and so I think enabling that conversation across both will I think drive a much better industry movement, which is really what we're looking for.

I

And and I think if we start by categorizing, the tools like, maybe this tool will fit in persistent this tool can help you with multi-tenancy just kind of putting kind of some similar to the landscape, the cncf landscape, but for the platforms.

I

I think this is a good starting point and maybe on the next level, if you, if we kind of find this, is useful, you can do kind some kind of comparison of like features. What are the features here? What are the features there? And if you tie that, with our recommendation in the papers, the customer will have the way to choose which feature or which product, instead of us just pointing them to specific projects or products.

G

Yeah I'm thinking about it as um going back to the capabilities of platforms on that map and being able to maybe start with the cncf landscape and we've had conversations in the past about how do we facilitate bringing the different applications or the different components from the landscape together the different projects, because we know they don't necessarily work together.

G

I know several of your companies are also doing that internally in your platforms like as part of the product experience, um but to me it could make sense as a path to go and build an inventory of the landscape projects or get the projects to help us fill out, and we can give them a list of capabilities that they're um their tools their products, whatever we want the projects actually fulfill, so maybe storage, right or um yeah buying services to workloads like messaging right.

G

Let's see which area is there and focusing on those capabilities might give us a way, also to say: hey, you have a vendor solution or another platform. What tools do you currently use underneath the hood and what capab like as far as landscape? And what capabilities does your platform fulfill I've done that in a few places for like minimum viable platform?

G

If you install this product, if you, if you install this platform, it comes with this much coverage of platform capabilities, and then you can add things on top of it and that's been a really easy way to just basically cherry pick and compatibility Matrix or a feature Matrix. So this is the thing this platform has, but I think that kind of ties the two ends together a little bit. Maybe that leads into the ability to have a tool to build your platform by selecting. Okay I want to see what storage uh providers are here.

G

What messaging options we have and build your landscape basically.

F

Just just a small thing from my side: it's actually right now, actually there's a two conversation happening all the time when I'm, interacting with a lot of the customers that in the company have and with a larger Community is around one is kubernetes world and one is non-kubernetes word and currently there's a huge customer base that live in the both places.

F

Kubernetes and non-kubernetes were one other thing, I see, while the platform working group for the policy working group is, they have so many different options to use policies in kubernetes we have oppa, kyberno and there's I, think one from the Rancher as well and few other as well. What they end up is doing is actually they credit a capability Matrix, and if you have this scenario, then the highway no is the best fit in.

F

In contrast, we have a different scenario if we can actually come up with a capability Matrix for kubernetes and non-kubernetes world, that is a huge, huge first, resolving the huge frustration for the customers, because a lot of the debate is like currently when I'm actually except uh telling people around the white paper they mentioned. There's a there's just an open source and the kubernetes word: how do we actually mix and match those word that can be okay capability Matrix? If can define those terminologies can be best fit, and now.

G

Yeah I agree the um we see a lot of places where people when people are building their platforms right or assembling their tools. They use a completely commercial off the shelf solution and they have no idea that it's, whether it is or isn't kubernetes under the hood and it's totally relevant I, definitely agree.

A

So I would just like to cut this conversation short because I time boxed it for 20 minutes. We have two minutes left, and this is. This is good that we're having this conversation, but it's already starting to derail in like exactly the conversation that doesn't go anywhere to the point where we actually do things. So what I would suggest now, because that seems to me to be like the easiest thing for us to do- is to only provide a space for whoever want to showcase their platform.

A

So if I have a platform tool or a platform that I've built whatever there's a chance for you to Showcase it on our website, and it would basically be like a cfp for a conference you come in, you propose like I, wanna, I wanna show this. You need to like explain it. A little bit write some text whatever um you show it to this group, my or you can just I, don't even think it needs to be in this meeting like if you just want to send it via GitHub issue that or like pull request.

A

That would be fine with me, um so we will vet it a bit. We will say like okay. This is good enough. Has all the points that we think is are important, uh and then we put it on the website and we don't the tagging we just like. All of that, we leave to the person who's submitting it right if they want to make it more visible by using proper tagging. By really like you know, going very deep into the stuff. Let them do it.

A

If they don't want to do it, then we don't do it. I mean it's whatever like having something is better than not having anything. um Yeah Victor.

E

Sort of a question: is it even possible to build a standalone platform, in other words private cloud with kubernetes alone, without virtual machine or Hardware only platform? So that's uh just a question at this point, so we can.

E

Answer here, but that's a just when people decide to build platform, is that even possible.

C

I mean it seems like any kind of platform. Would we would consider like you know if it's based on VMS and you can show up, you know, terraform-based platform with VMS like seems reasonable too, for.

E

Example, um the 5G World, um the Telecom world I believe it's a either. uh Mostly it's a mix of virtual machine and uh VM and containers kubernetes, so I don't know. Is there any pure kubernetes-based implementation at all? At this point,.

G

Yeah, there are some things in Telecom.

E

Pure uh container, nothing bare metal, nothing or to.

G

Machine well, I mean bare metal is going to be underneath the hood on all of it. It's got to run on something.

E

Yeah, what I mean is resolve container? Basically, yeah I can't follow up with you offline.

A

G

Yeah I see I, see what you mean.

C

So uh do we have I think what Leanne said is a great place to start. Let's get something going, you know we can still vet based on PRS. If they come flying in and we have 50, then amazing we probably will only get one or two, so you know at least to start I. Think that's a that's a good plan. I mean we've got some ideas in here that we can iterate on from those first few.

A

Yeah, we can start with the two that we already have and wanted to do: the progressive delivery stuff and then the um Mauricio's platform I'm just going to call it Maurice's platform now, um so we could start and figure out like okay. What would be a good format to present them, which is actually perfect because it leads us to the next.

H

A

Conversation which is about the website, um because then once we get that the new structure um merged, then we can start adding new stuff to it.

H

I love it start by looking at those two. What do they have in common? How could we ask for more contributions? Put that up as the call to action with those two under and as people ask well, can I do it like this? We can add that, to the context for the call to action and more examples if it makes sense, um yeah.

A

Yeah I will put the result of this discussion this with the the current idea. We're having I will put that in the issue. There's an uh GitHub issue, four platforms prototypes and.

B

I'll just add.

C

A

C

Thank you Leanne. That's awesome. Thank you for taking the initiative to put it in I'll link the issue in this chat here with our notes, number 293.

C

Okay uh yeah, so the next thing on the oops next thing on the agenda is discuss, helping with project annual reviews so.

C

um Let me find a good link to share with you all so in last week's uh Toc meeting, we we went over the project annual reviews. I think this is the right link yeah.

C

um So right now the backlog is pretty big. It's usually not this big, but these are so. These are sandbox projects, one of the requirements and if somebody is, is really deep in the details you know correctly, but this is the general idea uh every year they have to get an annual review it. It isn't. It doesn't seem like it's super deep.

C

Technically, it's a lot of process make sure they have contributors and significant growth and the right you know, people involved, um so they wanna consistently delegate these to tags um and this round you know some might get shifted around, uh but there are four that are tagged for Tag app delivery here um ones that might be relevant to us in this group sealer, which is something for Secrets um cdk8s, which is like a palumi-like kind of programming, interface for configuring infrastructure, probably preaching to the choir and then Porter and oras, which actually I kind of want to go to the artifacts group.

C

Maybe and ask them about that, although they might have a vested interest in oras, um that's oci registry as a service, um something like that, so I guess I just wanted to mention like it's right now. It's kind of informal, there's, there's some processes in let's see I should have posted the the issue in talk. I didn't put that in there. Let me find that.

C

um Here's the pro I want to share the issue where the process is getting ironed out, so the exact things that people would need to look for I'll post it in the chat and I'll post it in there Notes too.

C

um So yeah that kind of describes, you know what you need to do. We kind of need people to just take a look uh at the four I mean, especially for Tag app delivery. If there's one that you want to volunteer to follow this process for help us, you know it's the first time, so it's going to be a little bit of you know. Rough edges help us Define the process.

C

um Consider it the goal is that you shouldn't have to spend more than a couple hours. Although you know this first round might be a little bit more um yeah.

C

If you want, you know more details, you can listen to the top meeting. Last week, that's recorded, you know what they're looking for or the Chats on those docs or chats and slack. You know what we're trying to iron out this process.

C

I just want to share. If anyone has any questions, I'll pause for a second.

A

What's the deadline for this again.

C

So, if you're willing to pick one up, tell us by the end of the month so by let's say, August 1st I think we want to start the reviews. Otherwise I think uh the talk Emily will start delegating them to first comers from any tag. That's the plan.

F

So, just like again is any any information like what is. Is there a document? What is actually the review like? What is the is? We need to review the documentation of all the processes like I'm, actually wanted you an opinion like what the review means actually in general,.

C

F

You can see that thing I.

C

Just post just a high level idea of what has to be done and then there's a doc in development. Let's see if I can find the link to that uh yes link to draft deep in there, but I can post that here too, give you an idea of what we're asking um you scroll down: I, guess to this heading, conducting annual reviews of sandbox projects, that's kind of the process, um yeah I'll just share really quick, so tag leadership assigns an individual and I basically said: I can't assign anybody I'm!

C

Looking for volunteers, um here's a little discussion about that. Here's! What you have to do, those six criteria, kind of assess them.

C

um We do expect I, think we do expect that the project will give you some information to start with.

C

um This is all in the annual reviewer, then the annual draft's recommendation.

C

Is it continuing progress towards incubation uh and then basically share it with the tag leads and with our talk liaison, which is Justin cormack for us.

C

um You know, if there's any concerns, then you know, maybe we have to spend a little more time on it. If it's pretty straightforward, then it just you know, gets approved and goes through.

C

Yep so I guess.

C

Yes, we do really need volunteers, I'll be honest, like I'm, not great, at asking for things um so I'm recruiting folks like if you can volunteer it would be. It would be amazing, and you know it's a good opportunity to show contribution here. You know if you're passionate about one of these projects you get to you probably get to interact with some of their maintain or some um you know, get a chance to meet Justin and folks. If you want in the talk, so please consider it.

A

And we choose the project that we're reviewing.

C

Of those I mean I would hope, like we have the four for uh app delivery. So, like maybe choose one of those first but yeah. If you have a real passion for one of the ones in tag runtime or security, I think they're looking for folks too, so you could offer over in their channels.

A

I'm, just really confused, there's a there's, a list of reviews for 2022 those are not the ones right. Those are the ones that are already done, I'm just really confused about like.

C

No I think that I think that list is all they're all open this. This 30 36, but.

A

Most of them, like.

C

Tag runtime tag, Network, tax security, okay,.

A

I'm just confused because if they say 2022, but these are the ones that we're supposed to do.

C

Yeah, these are the ones I, don't know why it says: 2022, maybe they're, just delayed, which makes sense.

C

That's what they're asking us to do, though, if you go to like tag runtime in cncf Slack, uh there's trying to find the thread.

C

H

There's a thread.

C

There, where they're.

C

They have a PDF, uh sorry, a Excel spreadsheet, going.

C

There it is I'll just share this link, there's the straight link for Nikita's work, she's she's been trying to iron out a process for tag runtime and tag, storage um and I think that she has a spreadsheet somewhere there. Yes,.

D

Create a spreadsheet.

C

C

So, let's see yeah so like look what they did and I'm totally open that if.

H

C

Wants to help with us be great like yeah I need help um like here is the tag runtime spreadsheet they made, and so at the very far right you see the tag contributor, that's assigned themselves to it.

C

Yeah it's gonna be hard to find folks I think so, if you want to help them I'm sure that's welcome too.

F

I, just just Josh a quick question like uh previously I'm working on the perilous open source project and is this project is recently accepted in the cncf sandbox project in I. Think last year, December and this meaning like now newer project is now becoming a CFCF sandbox or being a. They actually required all the stuff they needed to be taken, and we want them to review it to look at their status. How much of the criteria they met for the Assumption. So that's I can volunteer because I already know some of the stuff.

F

But if, if that's different from this, then might be, I have to learn about it.

C

C

Yeah, it's I, I, don't know a thousand percent I, don't look over the docs, but.

H

I'm sure your experience.

C

Would be helpful, it's it's not that different from the original criteria. You're.

D

Gonna have to submit one for perilous, probably two I.

C

Guess not total not for another six months or something, but we also wouldn't like to that point. We wouldn't necessarily ask we wouldn't allow a maintainer of something to review that one, at least that's the idea.

C

Okay, um moving on uh I did put at the end of the notes here. Just a couple please take a looks. One is the one that Leanne mentioned the the pr for the new website. Leanne I asked Chris at, but he's in New Zealand, so it'll probably be tomorrow um to regenerate the the site. So we could just test out all the links, work and stuff otherwise, I mean it looks good to me um that other people take a look uh and then we have a platforms.

C

Maturity model, deep dive on Thursday, uh which Abby's going to be facilitating, um so I put the link in there. You know RSVP if you want, or just show up on the zoom.

H

Quick reminder that this one will be looking at how we align on the model, changes and one of the things or facilitation is I. Understand that different people think differently, uh and everyone will have been coming at this from looking at an existing model and trying to evolve it, and so as a part of facilitation for this session. Anybody's welcome to put an uh example model into a Google drive as like a starter for 10 uh for the conversation. So, rather than feeling like you need to evolve, something that already exists.

H

If you want to start from scratch, taking on board all the things that we've learned for the last couple months like that works, and then that will give potentially airspace to new conversations that maybe would be harder through an evolutionary technique. So don't feel like you have to, but just know that that's open if it's something that you're interested in.

C

Okay, that's the end of our agenda. Does anyone have anything else to talk about from what we've talked about now or anything else got a couple more.

G

C

All right, then um I guess I'll see you all online. Thank you so much for your contributions and uh any questions. Let me know or ping in the slack and we'll see you soon thanks.

E

A

Thank you see you soon, thanks.

F

Everyone have a wonderful day. Thank.

I

You everyone bye.