►
From YouTube: CNCF TOC Meeting - 2018-10-02
Description
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A
A
B
They're,
just
both
live
for
Asia
and
North
America,
also
including
some
co-located
events
like
Envoy
con
that
we're
putting
together
for
the
community,
so
I
just
wanted
to
raise
awareness
that
all
these
things
are
out
and,
more
importantly,
if
you
go
to
the
next
slide,
we
have
the
dates
for
2019
locked
in,
for
our
three
major
events
so
feel
free
to
pencil.
Those
in
your
calendar,
so
any
questions
on
them.
I
have.
A
A
question
I
was
involved
in
the
program
committee
for
Copenhagen
and
other
things.
That
was
a
lightning
rod
issue
in
the
selection
phase
was
whether
there
was
a
double-blind
selection
process,
and
it
was
promised
at
the
time
that
that
would
be
used
next
time,
meaning
later
in
the
year,
was
that
used
for
the
Shanghai
and
Seattle
conferences,
and
if
not
these,
can
we
use
it
for
the
next
conferences.
C
D
No
okay
and
I
am
strongly
in
favor
of
double-blind.
It
is
done
effectively
everywhere
now
in
computer
science,
academia,
computer
science,
academic
computer
science
had
some
of
the
same
arguments
against
double-blind
that
you
probably
make
they
have
since
moved
to
all
double-blind
and
they've
seen
much
better
results.
So
there
are
a
lot
of
arguments
in
favor
of
double-blind
and
it's
something
that
I
think
we
should
be
considering
as
a
TOC
I,
really
don't
think
it
should
be
up
to
each
individual
conference
to
decide
whether
they
are
double-blind
or
not.
D
A
C
A
A
So
next
slide,
please
alright.
So
this
is
very
important
and
I'm.
Sorry
that
not
everybody
who's
normally
on
the
calls
is
here
today
due
to
flights
and
stuff.
We
had
a
bit
of
a
huddle
after
the
last
TOC
call,
because
we
haven't
had
a
proper.
You
know
private
face-to-face
for
some
time,
and
you
know
some
topics
that
we
discussed.
Then
the
last
one
came
up
again
and
there's
a
strong
feeling
now
in
the
TOC.
A
So
we're
going
to
change
how
we
build
the
agenda
and
we're
also
going
to
require
that
minutes
be
taken
and
the
way
that
we're
going
to
do.
That
is
very
similar
to
how,
for
example,
the
kubernetes
sig
would
work
for
an
open-source
project
might
have
a
weekly
face
to
face
hangout,
which
is
to
have
a
living
document.
A
You
can
see
an
example
link
to
their
toc
public
notes,
and
in
that
document
you
take,
everyone
can
contribute
an
agenda
if
they
have
write
access
to
the
document
and
the
agenda
will
be
shaped
a
day
or
two
before
they
call
by.
You
know
the
chair
and
folks,
like
Chris
and
Dan
and
so
on,
and
to
create
you
know
some
structure
and
water
and
then
we'll
take
notes
on
the
same
document
during
the
meeting,
so
that
we
can
then
have
a
system,
a
record
for
what
was
agreed
and
and
so
on.
A
Thank
You
Dario
see
you
there
on
the
chat.
We
will
use
this
in
the
next
meeting.
Okay,
not
today,
we
just
have
time
to
get
there.
I
would
really
appreciate
it
if
one
or
two
people
who
either
are
t40
OSI
contributors
or
part
of
the
executive
staff
or
TOC
voting
members
could
just
help
out
to
get
this.
This
way
of
working
up
and
running
otherwise
Chris
and
I
will
have
to
do
all
ourselves
and
we
will
go
a
bit
crazy,
well,
crazy
error.
E
A
We
have
had
a
lot
of
meetings
where
we
sit
through
presentations
and
you
know
in
addition
to
that
becoming
a
bit
samey.
We
feel
that
we're
being
that
valuable
time
is
being
squeezed
out
from
you
know
by
that
process,
and
we
should
spend
that
time
in
a
more
focused
manner
on
some
other
things,
which
means,
of
course,
that
we
need
another
way
of
doing
the
real-time
presentations.
A
Some
of
them
will
be
moved
to
two
norm-
real-time,
so
we're
probably
going
to
drop
the
real-time
sandbox
presentations,
but
keep
the
ones
for
incubation
in
graduation,
and
we
want
to
divert
the
time
available
during
the
meeting
to
focus
discussions,
aka
working
sessions
and
we'll
have
the
first
one
of
those
today
around
the
topic
of
end
users.
So
we'll
get
a
chance
to
do
an
alpha
round
of
this
approach
and
then
the
idea
is
the
next
meeting
in
two
weeks.
A
A
We
also
might
change
the
cadence
and
the
length
of
the
meetings
please
bear
with
us,
while
the
TOC
members
figure
out
exactly
how
we
want
to
spend
our
time
on.
This
don't
be
alarmed.
The
purpose
is
to
scale
better.
It's
not
trying
to
exclude
anyone,
we're
actually
trying
to
make
it
more
inclusive
and
more
scalable,
but
it'll
take
a
little
bit
of
time
to
figure
out
how
to
get
there.
Does
anyone
have
questions
about
this.
F
This
may
have
happened
already,
but
I
would
propose
that
projects,
for
example,
that
are
coming
in
for
sandbox
both
really
need
to
not
just
like
throw
thirty
minutes
of
YouTube
up,
but
actually
need
to
write
a
document
that
has
some
specific
format
and
is
kept.
You
know
relatively
short
enough
to
digest
I
think
we
will
get
a
lot
more
review
if.
F
F
A
Bob
and
Camille,
could
you
send
me
an
email
or
send
it
to
the
TOC
public
list?
I,
don't
mind
wish
just
for
the
few
bullet
points
of
things
you
might
think
should
be
in
such
a
document
and
yeah
we're
in
the
process,
as
Chris
is
pointing
out
here
on
the
chat
channel
of
making
some
updates
some
of
these
processes,
and
especially
around
sandbox.
So
just
please,
please
PLEASE
send
send
send
suggestions
to
the
public
lists
or
or
to
me
and
Chris
and
whatever
just
just
send
it
send
it
send
it
says
it.
A
B
E
Excited
to
be
here
so,
if
you
haven't
read
the
blog
post,
yet
this
is
my
second
day
as
director
of
eco
system
and
my
mission
is
to
make
our
end
users
more
successful
and
productive
and
help
the
community
ensure
that
it
has
some
feedback
and
get
feedback
between
the
projects
and
the
end
users
who
are
using
them.
So
my
background
is
as
a
product
manager
at
a
container
storage,
startup
called
slaughterous,
who
are
a
CN
CF
member
and
as
an
engineer
at
Google,
where
I
was
probably
the
best
example
of
an
end
user.
E
H
C
Didn't
think
that
Matt,
if
you
don't
mind,
just
as
we
had
to
kind
of
hone
in
on
the
definition
over
the
last
couple
years
with
our
end
user
community
and
such
and
I
I,
don't
want
to
claim
that
this
is
perfect.
But
if
it's
working
well
enough,
which
is
companies
that
don't
offer
cloud
native
services
to
their
customers
and
so
Pinterest
is
a
perfect
example
of
a
company.
That's
using
kubernetes
and
other
cloud
native
technologies
internally.
C
But
they
offer
the
pinboard
platform
to
their
customers
as
opposed
to
get
lab
or
Google
or
lots
of
other
folks
who
offer
something
but
I
don't
where
it
gets.
A
little
fuzzier,
as
we've
sort
of
arbitrarily
said
to
telecom
firms
are
not
end-users
and
then
there's
been
some
other
ones
that
have
been
somewhat
close.
Calls.
E
Thought
a
lot
about
this
myself,
because
I
come
really
from
a
developer
background.
I'm
very
involved
with
the
meetups
and
so
I
speak
to
a
lot
of
DevOps
engineers,
and
so
so
far
the
definition
of
vendors
who
are
not
setting
cloud
native
services
makes
sense
to
me,
but
I
wonder
if
it's
broader,
if
it's
is
it
a
particular
type
of
role
within
those
places
like?
Is
it
more
engineering
focused
or
is
it
I
don't
know,
I've
spent
a
lot
of
time,
thinking
about
what
exactly
end-users
mean
and.
H
You
know
when
I
think
of
end-users,
by
the
way,
for
those
of
you
don't
know,
I
do
say:
gaps
over
on
kubernetes
side,
so
I
deal
with
end-users
a
lot
and
I
work
on
home,
which
is
so
when
we
think
about
it
right.
We're
trying
to
hone
in
sometimes
on
individual
types
of
people
to
figure
out
what
do
they
need
and
how
to
set
them
up
to
be
successful.
I
H
H
C
J
E
A
C
Was
just
gonna
add
the
two
places
where
the
definition
has
needed
to
come
up.
The
most
are
one
on
our
end
user
community,
where
we
do
require
that
they
may
not
sell
cloud
native
services
and
and
thinking
there
was
to
try
and
and
essentially
keep
the
foxes
out
of
the
henhouse,
and
so
that
have
to
have
end-users,
who
were
potentially
customers
of
vendors
to
have
a
place
where
they
could
communicate
bluntly,
but
in
a
vendor
free
environment
and
then
the
other
area.
So
all
those
people
are
seen.
C
So
you
have
members
or
supporters
by
definition,
but
the
other
area
where
it's
coming
up
more
and
more,
is
in
submissions
to
coupon
Club
native
con,
where
we
do
ask
people
to
check
a
box
to
say
that
if
one
of
the
speakers
is
an
end-user
and
by
that
again
we
mean
not
a
vendor
offering
services.
But
this
stuff
isn't
perfect
so
and
we're
very
open
to
modifying
the
definition,
particularly
now
that
we
have
show
on
board.
A
This
is
a
screen
shot
you
may
have
seen
before
of
what
was
the
feedback
from
the
TOC
in
June
and
early
July,
leading
up
to
the
GB
off-site,
and
this
was
the
slide
that
I
presented
summarizing
that
feedback
Cheryl.
Do
you
want
to
say
a
few
words
about
you
know
what
your
thoughts
are
on
this
initial
feedback
from
the
TSO
you
bear
in
mind.
This
is
somewhat
random
and
I
speak
of
somebody
who
is
very
much
aware.
A
E
So
understanding
why
why
end
users
use
the
projects
in
the
first
place
beyond
the
there's,
always
a
there's,
always
a
reason
and
purpose
beyond,
because
we
want
to
use
this
technology,
but
the
end
users
will
have
different
ideas
of
exactly
what
they
want
and
from
those
they
need
guidance
and
templates
on
how
to
prove
those
things
and
then
how
to
go,
how
to
actually
execute
and
implement
them.
I
think
there's
a
feeling
that
there's
a
lot
of
projects
and
people
don't
have
the
time
to
investigate
how
they
all
work
with
each
other.
A
Okay,
I'm,
actually
a
nurse
that
we
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please
thank
you.
So
I
was
hoping
that
now
now
it's
23
minutes
past
the
hour
just
for
the
next
five
or
ten
minutes.
We
could
solicit
some
feedback
and
you
have
a
conversation
between
Cheryl
and
perhaps
others
from
the
CN
CF
executive
team
as
well.
K
Hey
this
is,
this
is
Kim
just
kind
of
add.
Add
to
that
like
the
two
areas
that
I
only
get
a
most
important
for
the
TOC
to
be
involved
with
end
users
is
in
either
the
the
gaps,
the
some
of
the
issues
that
we're
running
into
and
then
music
space
with
implementing
cloud
native
technologies
is
one
and
then
the
second
area
would
be
some
of
the
projects
like
I
know
it.
K
Masek
I
were
working
in
some
some
unique
security
areas
that
there
are
no
solutions
in
cloud
native
today
and
we
want
to
contribute
that
back
to
the
community,
but
we
don't
want
to
do
it
as
a
heavy-handed
like
you
must
do
it,
because
Master
Kukai
did
it
way
bit
more
of
a.
This
is
like
really
good
for
the
community
to
look
at,
and
we
want
t
osee
input
on
on
that.
J
On
end
users,
yeah
some
kind
of
forum
clicking
involved
direct
interaction,
I'm,
not
thinking
of
a
track
so
much
in
the
sense
of
talks.
There
are
good
end
user
talks
at
the
conference
or
that
have
been
in
the
past,
but
more
of
an
opportunity
for
project
maintainer
and
end
users
to
discuss
the
you
know
how
end-users
are
using
the
CNCs
projects
and
where
that
friction
and
gaps
are
especially
in
using
them
together,
but
also
just
independently.
J
H
So
this
is,
this:
is
Matt
Farina,
again
I'll
just
pipe
up,
you
know,
I
know
some
projects
are
proactive
and
finding
who
their
their
big
users
are
and
going
out
and
sitting
down
with
them
and
interviewing
them
and,
having
conversations
you
know,
some
of
the
projects
will
actually
do
that.
But
I
bet
you
a
lot
of
maintainer
zhan.
A
lot
of
projects
are
engineers
and
aren't
those
folks
who
organize
and
get
around
and
sit
down
and
get
good
actionable
feedback
from
their
end
users
and
so
forth.
H
E
Sort
of
formats
do
you
think
that
should
come
in
because,
as
coming
from
product
management
background,
I've
spent
a
lot
of
time.
Thinking
about
how
to
take
lots
of
unstructured
feedback,
especially
as
we're
not
working
with
three
end
users,
there's
already
50
or
60
companies,
and
putting
that
in
a
structured
way,
so
that
we
can
communicate
and
we've
got
the
same
idea
about
what
everybody
needs.
Do
you
have
any
thoughts
on
what
formats
we'd
like
to
see
that
in.
H
You
know
I've
got
a
thought
again.
Is
this
something
we
could
actually
go
back
to
the
end-user
leaders
on
and
ask
them
what
format
they'd
be
up
for
presenting,
because
I
think
we've
got
a
bunch
of
folks
here.
Work
for
vendors
and
things
like
that,
and
maybe
letting
the
end
users
to
a
certain
extent
extent
drive.
The
conversation
might
be
helpful
because
then
we
vendors
aren't
trying
to
push
it
into
a
way
that
fits
into
what
we're
already
looking
for.
E
It's
definitely
gonna
be
we're.
Gonna
iterate
on
this
sure
I
think
both
sides
need
to
understand
will
have
input
on
the
best
best
way
to
communicate
user
needs.
So
if
you
have
I
would
definitely
go
and
talk
to
more
of
the
end-user
leads
as
well.
But
if
you
have
any
thoughts
now,
I'd
really
appreciate
I
mean.
G
I
will
say
that
I
wish
cube
con
had
a
lot
more
in
user
talks.
I
am
I,
you
know,
I
am
basically
telling
people
so
I'm,
sending
a
lot
of
people
to
keep
Khan
and
I.
Think
the
people
that
I
that
I'm
sending
that
work
directly
on
kubernetes.
It
will
be
somewhat
useful
because
they
need
to
know
you
know
a
lot
of
what's
in
the
ecosystem.
A
E
D
I
would
also
add
that
when
you
are
looking
at
users
at
cube
con,
you
have
to
you're
getting
a
certain
kind
of
user
that
may
not
be
representative
of
the
broader
user
that
may
have
different
issues.
I
would
liken
it
to
talking
to
customers
in
your
own
customer
briefing
Center
whenever
you,
if
you
look
at
a
big
company,
you've
got
a
customer
briefing
Center
whenever
your
toe.
If
you
only
talk
to
customers
in
your
own
customer
briefing
Center,
you
are
getting
the
customers
that
are
invested
enough
in
you
to
travel
out
and
everything
else.
I
I
They
surprisingly
open
up
to
a
lot
of
things
and
if
I
captured
I've
been
bringing
back
to
this
project.
The
other
thing
we
do
is
that
we
ask
people
to
come
to
this.
They
attract
a
lot
of
people
from
our
side,
show
up
Indonesia
or
whatever
already
the
challenges,
and
you
can
usually
have
like
a
thousand
or
so
different
folks
standing
I
find
that
these
private
setup
did
it
help
them
open
up
a
little
more.
So
in
combination
with
those
things
they
found
it.
There
include
DD
valuable,
the
interior
point.
E
Yeah
I
actually
I
think
that
end
user
community
well
there's
the
monthly
cause,
but
that's
about
it.
I,
don't
know
that
there's
much
activity
between
those
course
that
happens.
Perhaps
if
there's
any
anything
that
I'm
not
aware
of
there
then
feel
free
to
enlighten
me
but
improving
the
communication
channel.
So
we're
not
talking
to
the
same
people
over
and
over
again,
or
only
people
in
a
certain
geography
on
certain
verticals,
because
those
are
the
people
we
already
know.
I
think
that
will
help.
E
The
other
thing
that
I
see
from
running
I
won
the
cloud
native
London
meet
up,
so
I
speak
to
a
lot
of
developers
and
engineers
and
DevOps
people
in
this
space
is
there's
a
lot
of
projects
and
there's
a
lot
of
confusion
about
how
why
what
what's
the
value
of
having
lots
of
different
projects,
if
the
CN
CF
ends
up
with
a
thousand
projects,
then
does
that
help
them
I,
don't
know
the
answer
to
that
yeah.
So
there's
a
there's,
something
that
I've
thought
about,
which
is
playing
more
of
a
product
management
role
across
projects.
A
E
E
A
Another
thing
that
we
could
do
is
so
I
was
lucky
enough
to
be
invited
to
an
end-user
call
not
too
long
ago,
and
I
saw
a
really
good
presentation
from
I.
Think
it's
the
University
of
Michigan
that
Chris
had
organized
for
that
call,
and
you
know
be
nice
to
show
that
one
again
to
people
on
the
terrace
II
mean
I
mean
the
most
thing.
We
should
do
that
every
time
now
and
then
that
would
be
an
example
of
something
we
could
do.
Yeah.
E
A
A
A
Excellent
thanks
do
see
right
next
slide,
please,
okay,
so
the
other
is
to
do
another
session
a
little
bit
like
this,
maybe
a
bit
longer
actually
next
time
covering
helping
projects
as
the
theme
and
I'm
not
saying
we'll
only
do
this
on
the
call,
but
I
want
to
touch
on
another
theme
together.
So
this
is
a
topic.
A
That's
come
and
gone
with
lots
of
different
people
with
different
points
of
view,
I'd
like
to
make
it
very
clear
that
Chris
and
other
members
of
the
CNCs
staff
do
a
lot
of
kind
of
below
the
waterline
work
that
we
don't
always
see.
Personally,
I'd
really
like
to
hear
more
about
what
that
is.
Actually,
but
it's
a
big
picture
item
I
do
know
that
it's
a
recurring
question
from
people.
How
can
we
help
projects
more
and
I
hope
that
we
can
go
through
it
in
detail
in
the
next
in
the
next
session?
A
Chris,
do
you
have
a
document
that
we
can
add
further
suggestions
to
I
know
you
started
compiling
some
thoughts
from
the
mailing
list.
Discussion
that
yeah
one
second
I
thought
I
linked
to
it
here.
Is
it
in
the
chat?
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much
Taylor.
Would
you
mind
adding
that
link
to
the
document,
please
the
slides,
so
people
can
see
it.
A
Thank
you,
so
Chris
you're,
the
person
who's
been
doing
a
lot
of
this.
Could
you
talk
us
through
a
little
bit
about
what
you've
done
personally
and
also
with
other
members
of
the
team?
I
mean
how
many
interactions
there
are
being
and
thoroughly
give
everybody
a
sense
of.
What's
the
what's
the
state
of
the
art
in
terms
of
working
with
projects,
so
we
can,
we
can
move
on
from
there
yeah.
B
Sure
you
know
basically
the
way
it
works
is
when
a
project
gets
on-boarded
to
become
an
official
ciencia
project.
Whatever
level
they
are,
they're
basically
asked
if
they
want
regular
meetings
with
staff.
Essentially
we
do
a
monthly.
You
know,
fifteen
or
thirty
minute
meeting
depending
on
their
needs.
B
I
would
say
a
little
over
of
half
of
projects
essentially
opted
for
the
meeting,
the
others
generally
say
their
final
reach
out.
If
we
need
anything
recently
shared
a
calendar
with
the
TOC
in
terms
of
those
meetings,
if
you
wanted
to
actually
join
one
of
those
we're
structuring
and
doing
well,
so
we
have
a
service
desk
for
anything
that
projects
require
from
funding
outreach
interns
to
documentation,
help
migrating
a
website
from
you
know.
B
You
know
whatever
WordPress
to
Hugo
or
whatever,
so
we
probably
accomplished
about
100
or
so
tickets
through
that
over
the
last
year
in
we
recently
did
a
survey
in
the
first
half
of
the
year,
which
I
linked
to
over
here,
which
kind
of
discussed
thoughts
from
maintained
errs
in
terms
how
the
staff
was
doing
in
certain
tasks.
So
we
publish
those
results.
B
A
Cool,
so
I
have
two
two
comments
on
that.
First
of
all,
first
of
all,
actually
thank
you
very
much
and
just
to
remind
people
that
you
know
this
is
a
topic
where
a
lot
of
effort
goes
in
from
different
sources.
We
don't
always
see
it
so
I
think
it's
really
important
if
we're
going
to
discuss
it
in
detail
that
people
start
for
an
appreciation
of
what's
already
being
done.
A
My
two
comments,
which
are
shown
here
are
number
one
I
think
the
service
desk
is
okay,
clearly
working
getting
a
hundred
requests
through
it,
but
it
does
still
strike
me
as
a
little
bit
on
the
passive
side.
It'd
be
good
to
come
up
with
specific
proposals
and
solicit
feedback
for
the
projects
and
many
other
communities
and
users,
the
TOC,
etc
around
that,
and
also
with
the
survey.
You
know,
I
think
that
survey
was
pretty
good,
but
it
did
feel
a
little
bit
like
a
glass
half
full,
or
at
least
maybe
two
thirds
scroll
one-third.
A
Not
at
all.
You
know
you
can
interpret
the
results
of
the
survey
in
different
ways.
I
think
it's
really
important
with
these
surveys
to
ask
very
directed
questions
and
Mike.
The
number
one
question
that
bothers
me
is:
if
you
spoke
to
a
project
lead
from
a
CN
CF
project,
would
they
recommend
other
projects
during
the
CN
CF
and
if
so,
why
would
be
kind
of
shrug
their
shoulders
and
say?
Well,
it's
been
okay.
It's
a
neutral
hi.
We.
A
A
A
You
truly
anticipated
when
they
got
started
a
couple
of
years
ago,
so
we
have
to
be
as
best
as
possible
as
gracious
as
possible
in
dealing
with
this,
but
we
really
do
want
to
make
a
clear
distinction
between
incubated
and
graduates
projects
which
we
see
as
have
getting
over
quite
a
high
bar
and
deserving
of
a
large
amount
of
attention.
Even
if
they're
not
the
only
project
in
a
particular
area
and
sandbox
project,
some
of
which
were
thought
of
yesterday
and
a
very,
very
new
and
may
not
succeed.
A
So
we're
just
trying
to
adjust
some
of
the
process
and
marketing
in
order
to
align
with
that,
and
then
we
also
want
to
understand
better
how
to
you
know,
get
the
CNC
app
to
scale,
because
the
TOC
has
become
becoming
more
and
more
of
a
bottleneck.
We've
really
got
to
empower
the
community.
More
intelligently
than
we
have
done,
without
necessarily
creating
you
know,
alternate
political
universes.
A
This
is
gonna,
take
a
bit
of
time
to
figure
out,
but
as
an
example,
you
know,
I
was
asked
to
look
at
a
project
today
that
there's
something
in
security
and
if
you're
really
good,
to
send
it
along
to
the
working
group
for
security
and
ask
them
to
come
back
with
a
readout
on
it,
but
we're
not
quite
at
the
point
being
able
to
do
that
systematically.
Yet.
A
Okay,
so
that'll
be
a
topic
for
the
future
next
slide.
Please
I
think
we're
to
the
end
of
the
session.
Now
we're
not
going
to
do
the
key
cloak
presentation
today,
I
apologize
for
that,
especially
to
the
Key
Club
team
I
saw
you
did
some
really
nice
slides
for
people
who
want
to
look
at
the
slides.
They
are
in
the
deck
and
we
will
revert
to
these
projects
very
very
soon
in
a
slightly
revised
form
in
terms
of
the
presentations
etc.
A
Can
we
go
on
please
to
the
next
slide,
not
going
to
do
working
through
updates
today
cover
they're
going
to
come
back
to
that
backlog,
move
on
and
then
just
to
remind
you
on
the
conference
is
looking
and
then
the
last
slide
is
the
new
agenda
style
for
next
time.
I
hope
everyone
understands
what's
being
requested
here.
Does
anyone
else
want
to
have
anything
to
add
in
terms
of
wrapping
up
for
today
and
preparing
for
the
next
presentation
in
to
you
in
two
weeks
time?
The
next
meeting
I
mean.