.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 22 May 2018

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Description

00:00:00 - Approved: Adding GetChunks which allow efficient scanning of a StringBuilder https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/29770#issuecomment-391080101
00:37:47 - Approved: Exception.HResult setter should be made public https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/29696
00:42:36 - Approved: Add SpinWait.SpinOnce overload to specify or disable the Sleep(1) threshold https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/29623#issuecomment-391085259
00:53:21 - Approved: Enable EnvelopedCms to work with an external private key https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/29327#issuecomment-391088582
01:03:36 - Approved: Add DecompressionMethods.All? https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/29243#issuecomment-391095592
01:26:10 - Approved: Implement portable support for TCP_KEEPCNT, TCP_KEEPIDLE and TCP_KEEPINTVL socket options https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/25040#issuecomment-391097721
01:30:40 - Approved: [Cookie] CookieCollection should implement ICollection(Cookie) https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26975#issuecomment-391098529
01:34:28 - Needs Work: Support struct Enumerator for ConcurrentDictionary https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/28046#issuecomment-391102771
01:47:52 - Approved: TypeInfo doesn't expose a parameterless constructor https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/14334#issuecomment-391103797

A

B

Righty so no be alternate lawyer.

B

C

Right so purposes for water, I think they're. All.

D

B

B

E

Let's see the sexy stuff.

B

E

F

G

C

The numeration which allow efficient scanning of the screen door.

H

But I don't know Kristen have you spent time in that you.

I

A

J

First case would be you get stop something ever healed.

J

K

You changed to what.

L

Someone I Oh God.

K

K

To be able to do something with the data, so if you want to send this, if you want to copy the data from the stringbuilder to a text, writer.

F

K

You want to search it in a particular way for some concepts. We don't expose any way to get at the underlying data other than to string.

K

What you couldn't implement text right there already is a string writer which just wraps the string builder. Basically, you could choose to just implement methods like copy to text, writer or a copy to a sick text, writer and all the various versions of that, or you expose this underlying thing as a primitive and then either. We can also expose those, but if we don't anyone collect them on their own.

M

K

A mismatch that we specifically with screens famous fights string builder stars, but if you got past that, if you run into rap a string builder in a text reader, for example, there's no efficient way to do that today, the only the only way we have to get out the data in a string builder today is indexer Whitehead to straight. But if shoestring allocates a big string and indexer is not efficient, I.

A

Honestly say like I'm.

B

Not constrained by sleeping effect that we had challenged, because that seems like almost the logical implementation selection list of TV. You can't really hide the fact that it's a building the random occurrence right that this type of the communication about that.

B

Yeah but streamer that doesn't try to be a super generic attraction. Let's mingle, that wants to be a very cheap way to produce the store.

N

O

B

But it's based at the capacity right like I, mean like I mean the underlying I mean it's it's trying to be a very cheap building drop. It doesn't try to be generative. Section I mean this stuff teas, not an abstraction. Readers can go there. I.

P

Mean how can we discuss this? Some of this I find it okay.

Q

To them effectively.

R

What was the reasoning for now.

K

I think it's it's a fuzzy reason it's you could go either way. The argument is this is a niche scenario and making a template by innumerable surfaces. Arguably services support that you want, but you know that's.

R

There's no performance or other I.

S

K

There's I don't think so.

T

K

It's not over a sprinkle you're gonna, get it char them. If you close those, let's, let's raise.

T

This one we could make it.

K

Implement ienumerable, if you do, though, and you don't have these public api's you're going to be allocating every time you call it so you're.

F

Gonna have to allocate.

K

Give you a river, so if you want to be a regardless of whether you implement on your work, will or not, if you want to be good allocation free, you have to have a start base to the render, which means you need these public. Eight guys right. Okay,.

B

It's me, the only argument not infinity I knew was that you make it part of people to accidentally go through the allocation of a according to make metric back.

U

M

M

K

M

P

Allocate forties yeah.

P

Something that you know.

P

R

I was just we have this pattern on other places where we have to suppress instructing in Reuters and I. Think they this one's a little.

K

Bit interesting or I think he talked about another related issue last time that this is one of the first times, I think where we've introduced the struct of innumerable that's new, but it's sort of necessary here and if you don't.

P

K

D

K

No I, guess you, could you don't, do we I guess we don't.

M

K

Assuming we don't, then I guess you could just make it a public get a numerator. It might be a little strange, but that of your winner returns chunks rather than charge. We're like another.

J

P

V

The question is why we would also say these computer interfaces to indicate things like before eating.

V

K

Nothing, there's probably nothing that prevents us from having this interfaces.

W

Because that I would.

B

I think you probably defeat the purpose for that point.

K

Well, I'm not sure to keep the purpose it did it.

K

You go from not allocating to allocating, but there are there's a spectrum to how much you allocate it's difference between allocating the enumerate or or give the enumerable and eating right or versus allocating the entire strength. Nobody.

B

You don't have to right, I mean they give her. Just one enumerate the streamlet today. I can just write a for loop of length and and the indexer, but people don't do that because that's the more efficient way of doing it. So why would you call the nape method on the more efficient way.

L

That's actually, it's actually terribly.

J

M

B

That's not even like, like slightly worse. That's like a course of magnitude words.

M

U

There's no way for us to fix that at all.

M

Why ministry go.

M

B

But it's done I would argue that small obvious people looking at skin.

M

M

K

A

K

Does make certain things.

X

B

That would almost dictated like swimwear that maybe stream weather should be at least for each of all, so that the normal enumeration does not subject. Time is adjusted in order for you.

M

B

You could have a strap, a secure that does exactly what Eddie suggested for before you can't ride. You could just- and you know the last chunk so when so you don't you sudden, go and spread without any more Chris.

K

Bonuses forget: where do we land and how does this relate to home? What we'd only see planes thing like? How is this relate to a read-only sequence of chart.

P

You know honey, you have to pay their link this to take us.

P

I, just don't think it's working okay, one thing that I would do to make it less. So one thing that worries me.

P

Like sometimes I just thinkin.

K

You mean have a single total hearing, I think that place, but I think you have a single struck that has all three of those methods on it and I've get a numerator just returned this.

K

Some people have used that trick like I. Do that when I'm writing example folk with a week and a customer later, I don't have get a waiter return, something, and it's basically getaway to return to this.

K

It's possible, we do it well, we do it as an implementation detail. Inside of the implementation for the numerators like with length. That's when you call get a numerator, we return assuming. No one else is using it. You returned this, but that's that doesn't show up as part of the public. Api is just I mean.

B

Normally, my concern would be that you have no mixed state and the same thing that, even though these are structs, and you already have to call the method to get them to begin work like collapsing and oh, he seemed like a battery at all.

G

R

Still don't know why we can't just go. You know, return to get well.

B

That's the thing I've discussed with Jared the other day and he said yeah he's awesome table F is fixing the competitive employee to me. Where does this soon as you have that, like there maybe do.

W

New hope for the future. Yes, we cannot.

B

Even read it here: let's.

P

Just so, let's just keep the name talking very yeah that.

Y

B

Really is it yeah.

P

B

I mean you can only do that today. It's another feature: I.

U

K

We don't the only downside, there are only two downsides that I can pick up. So we don't remember a person's really span. One is it's slightly bigger things, so you're handing out a little bit a larger thing, each time passing out a little more data and two is you then have to access the span.

F

K

In exchange for that, you wanted a copy to a sink from a stringbuilder to a text. Writer you can do that.

P

One thing we could do is there's a convenient for you hei and then share the medical discharge.

B

So why is he willing to give her the memory? Because we only have one or no.

P

H

You can really be.

D

S

Kristoff, could you.

Z

AA

Krista yeah, what.

P

I was saying, is.

P

And or attacks feel like.

AB

P

Know normally you for each and if you will worry about the performance of getting, is part of this memory, you switch their wire loop and then you'll.

AB

Access transplant- oh I, see so.

K

And so, rather than doing current thoughts fan, we would just have it construct. This fan the same way.

P

Just doing a conversion of the array- yes, but this pencil version is much I mean they been. The big benefit of it sounds like it's. A very similar set of you know cause but Spanish optimizing. The drill, yeah, the cost of those very simple operation.

AC

Rather than saying it's not like, we wouldn't need so carts, man wouldn't call current Oxfam and we need the direct conversion.

AC

K

If we measured, it's actually being measurable, that seems like a pretty reasonable solution to make. This up question is what we add it now before it.

K

Probably want to wait until he need it, but we could also ask fans to go and measured. It's like.

F

K

He may not have considered it suggested it.

K

F

I'm the one day.

K

Like I can absolutely imagine there being a huge difference over between this for every character, but if you're doing if every character, you're doing something wrong. So it's a question of you know we're in the middle of is Falls.

P

Howard's other thumbs, there's.

K

A by default stringbuilder starts with a 16 character chunk and it doubles from there. So you know you're not going to have that many generally, you might have a thousand characters straight.

K

Or whatever they're not for exception, but- and there are certain constructs where basically could end up with many and smaller chunks.

B

Is any scenario wouldn't like to them so.

K

I said it: againi is.

B

Any scenario I want to like for this to be actually trust. You I know you can't read me, could you could be better? You don't need.

K

And I guess you could come up with one but I'm not sure, maybe come up with one when.

B

I'm thinking that things like to offer, for example, right or like you know where you can potentially character by character, hi.

K

Are you asking like why are you I mean.

B

We can't grow right, I mean, like you feel, like you, basically get the structure that we have for you, but it's important after all. Similarly, there is a beautiful thing: yeah.

K

I mean I: guess if you wanted to learn like your own custom, replaced operation that to change the size of anything, but you wanted doing that. Public methods on stringbuilder didn't support, I guess be picky value. Where would fall down as the moment you wanted to change the life we.

AD

Have to replace one.

K

Character with two or something.

H

Then just wanted my to be regretted only Troy, the.

K

Other downside to memory is probably our to get this other places where we that will talk about having a threat for training methods, is you're handing out the internals of this guy's invitation. The moment like that, you can also the other options, expose two properties, one called chunks and one called chump count, and then you can enumerate the junks.

K

Just by saying you can an excellent give you the next one that said I think either the sequence position or that supper I.

AA

Forget what is sequence doesn't have what a sequence position Hawaii you constructed.

AA

K

AA

P

K

Part of the problem is and I, don't know why this can case. Maybe we should go look at this again, but stringbuilder maintains a reverse linked list of a reverse singly linked list of the chunks. That's part of why the indexer is so expensive, so the string builder, it has basically a reference to last check and then that chunk reference is the previous jump, because it's optimizing for the attendance case.

K

So if all you have is the index, we have the link to a particular chunk with the current implementation you can't get to the next one. It's the previous work.

P

K

It has two paths: one path. This quickly counts, how many there are, and if it's under some threshold I think it's like he chokes. He basically does it recursively and if it's more than that, he does an allocation for a way to store all the chunks and etcetera.

AE

K

Else my question is I. Don't know why it's not.

L

Challenge accepted into default sizes.

M

M

I'm not unrelated question: what does they can try that you've been quite a for each other, something that.

AC

One of them is right on that right right. If not you had to cast it wasn't right, there's no way.

AC

Well, didn't you Atari if you implement.

V

Its high an interval of charlatan.

AC

And then you've also died in doing so. It was probably that way.

M

So we could do that we could swing the other offer the job.

M

B

That's almost worse, because that is in that is too much undiscoverable I. Think at that point. I would rather have a message like this one and just.

AF

AG

He wanted to be yeah.

H

All right, then, let me just slide to copy and paste it into notepad.

X

That's twice recognized for our season.

Q

Well, it was easy when he took just a long time.

P

Sequence position position.

AC

It allows if I'm gonna be walked through all of the data, but.

P

That's different then: well, yes, but the compiler.

P

An intention of such a few little people in disguise for.

P

P

W

B

I mean it looks almost a little dusty, stl I. Don't know why I complain.

AG

AG

AG

Can be overlooked, the puss-puss operator.

G

All right what.

H

G

H

That capturing what we just said before we go on with.

K

Yeah, we just I, don't know after about the other, what was Kurt's fan and we could consider making this country that really memory or in the future adding a current read writable, whatever Christophe Pelton.

P

AH

Have depth level Xfinity your.

AI

J

AJ

R

D

Like even meets.

R

AI

AI

Maybe you're creating instances time so.

B

What it's saving for for each list of T and the same thing right if you modify the list of people, writing their little.

K

B

M

Does that mean.

K

She mode as I mean what makes an exception if current or an exception, if it change like what its track version no.

B

I would say it's I mean it's the same as if people have a method right back either it works or it doesn't like. That's that's all solving or there's no point.

M

AK

B

What property they could modify the object when you actually modify something they access. The property doesn't want to fry the object.

R

Why isn't every other animal.

AL

R

K

How easy to write test B chunks, dot current like what does that do or SPI move next, if you don't go through the integrator.

K

B

The behavior is you're getting.

P

K

Move next, as what.

AD

K

We just say that get a new predefined get a numerator to know.

R

You numerator is only there to help this language.

H

The resentment, why.

N

Don't you pull.

H

H

You would write you just get the ball, get Chung's, you get this guy, you just say 100. You would never call the network.

AK

AM

Happening now, everyone's done.

AF

AG

45 minutes it's an important site, exact exception. A preservative should be made public yeah I knew that. Why do you know maybe something.

D

R

Was never meant to be exposed individual.

C

B

AN

Agree hosts age.

B

Without an exception, during the winter t timeframe, because we wanted to have a way to say we right now, we Flo exception directly for cases that we don't have an exception type of map. Well,.

R

The really added in the future we can. We.

B

R

A whole bunch of Drive things from exception in the API servers, so we need some people still needed a way to get that error code. So we exposed together right. We weren't trying to make it center because said it was almost always through construction through the constructor parameters and not through the property. We didn't.

M

B

Being like, if you make it acceptable, you can still like set the message.

H

C

Reflects it's only in all its you can do writable, there's anything set of electronics and.

W

A

C

C

AH

Link this to my case, yeah, if you like the city.

C

What happens those we change protected to hopefully doesn't break anyone, but I'm still not.

X

Sure we want to.

P

AH

Often helpful, why.

P

Wouldn't we go to when you're over now you can say.

P

AC

Whatever placement.

AJ

H

Yeah I think this is not virtually.

H

Who we think its.

R

R

Usually at conventions.

B

A

But like you can already.

B

Set the help, link or the we don't want the target side, whether it is that I was at home within source, must slaughter source and anxious, but also a source and helping I, basically advanced things that you may want to set in you see if you can still get out of singing at the same way, you could argue the edge with autism, advanced I need to know what it said.

AJ

B

I mean if you modify exceptions after you caught them, you're dissin in you. Look at that point. The deck looks super.

AG

B

AG

Well, after you caught it now before, you throw it short.

AD

C

It's called being an ass.

C

K

It's a very soos is just Soviet if someone, for example, has an exception and they're two string factors and H results and they cache the two string. That's that's you know it's subsequent calls just return. The cached version. Making this set of Oh doesn't provide any way to invalidate cache data. Do we care.

K

B

Message I'm so like.

K

I'm, saying like someone is someone who catches it in the exception, I haven't yet found that in cases where we do that, but it's very possible. You make the exception. The hexadecimal result.

AC

Now you change the message to send fielding well.

B

How what do we do for help link in and source? Isn't that also? Isn't it also exposed by to string.

K

Who knows what someone's to string does.

B

Yeah I think honestly, though, in practice, people will not do it after day today that called it I think the practices we would like to pull you through, but I, don't think people actually care I mean you can go write code that is affected by this yes and continue.

AE

Throwing the same exception object.

AC

That's modified.

AJ

Yeah, this grow semicolon.

AC

Modified, they used an exception because it serialized the decedent.

H

It will continue with the current.

AC

K

AC

K

Used the same object, but it updates the stack trace.

B

Well, the sector's won't be fixed right, so let me go into the longer body flight, even in the same method, right.

S

B

You say: throw semicolon I.

AK

B

N

Is what the parameter it seems a bit short, you should make it longer.

K

What, while the name of this parameter, is terrible I can tell you what it's doing.

AH

K

So spin weight is used in a bunch of places, the framework and external as a way of doing kind of back off, or you try something it's someone else concurrently has inflicted with you, and so you want to back off a little bit before trying again, there are, and usually with these back off schemes, try again very quickly each eigen very quickly and then, after a few times of trying again, please say you know what this trying again quickly thing isn't working I'm, gonna back off a little more and then you try again and you back off a little more, and so what spin wait does it has various kind of thresholds for what, when you back off into what first it can try just doing a red dot, spin late, which just does some computation, then it could try doing a thread yield to allow other threads on the same.

K

The same physical core to you know be swapped in then it could do thread dot, sleep zero. Then it gets on its last step is thread not sleep, one which in theory says sleep for a millisecond practice, and even that is a long time in practice. Windows.

K

And that's a insanely long time and he recently hits an issues where, because of some changes that count made, that changed spending mystics in certain cases, we ended up hitting that spin wait thread that sleep one more frequently, which ends up that's a cliff that you fall off, and so internally there we have these hard-coded thresholds. For when how many times we end up spinning before we get that next question- and this is control, one of those flips faces that last clip. It's saying how many times in West threshold people begin it.

B

Seems reasonable yeah I mean it seems that many mostly professionals might be good enough of the name, and then you can just documented what that actually means.

V

Are all the things.

AH

V

Reasonable step sizes, like could one parameter, describe all of the step. Things are different. Exposing this.

K

Oh sorry, how does I'm you if you bring up the IM window email, I pasted a link, so you can see the source for what this is doing and you can see where the various thresholds are. The.

B

First, I have to join the meeting because the only popping up on the conference monitor, which is not really helping and sorry.

K

I can just email you directly, no.

B

P

And also not like this going.

AH

H

Move those feet one little them.

V

Yes, I mean that the question.

V

Is this the only.

V

K

That's probably good question for count who thinks there's any decent mean suppose those and, if so, come up with a proposal for what that looks like.

V

Most polling books have senators whether it's a previous offset.

V

Is the parameter order? Those and the last thing we'll get through first thing, we'll get to.

Z

K

You know sleep zero, be given all the difference in their sleep, Sarah I believe. Is it just checks to see if there are other runnable threads on the same ideal processor, something something the priority gets factored in and if there's something else, it'll it'll kind of force switch to one of those. But if nothing else is runnable, this dredge is keep running I, think they detect a 50 millisecond. So you go to the ignore.

AC

AC

Excitedly, so you just go behind everybody else. Cruise.

AH

D

Good seeing Ally.

D

Oh man, this sounds complicated.

AO

H

P

AG

Australian dollar sprouts and.

P

AH

Say your style.

D

AH

D

H

We're gonna take that.

D

B

Not before the second half of another one for the second, how that's possible and I think today was a different yeah. Two four nine two in this do a three point: nine two sets not too bad after you, Tatooine, alright,.

D

K

Gonna disappear for a few minutes, I'll be back alright.

AN

Oh actually had something for drinks. I was thirsty.

AN

That is awful. This yeah.

N

Sorry, what yep I tried to get it.

B

Alright, so the question is: are the screaming is actually I think it did not stop the screen. So that's good I guess do I get the cable here.

AN

That's honest: alright, take the mic take this morning.

Y

AP

AQ

You should not.

AP

Christophe w has the written we're just waiting on.

AP

AR

Oh, thank you, my shoes. Oh god, this hurt alright.

AR

So now let me actually, the screen is also up just at this one.

G

F

AS

Q

Right so actually is the like Marilyn cookie shares at round table. It is.

F

AT

Yep I think it is alright.

AQ

W

That's a good point.

H

Except for business.

Y

What is happening did.

AT

You, oh it's! Oh yes, I'm clicking on the thing.

F

All right, so this fair.

AT

Isle actually.

W

I'm in the wrong.

F

O

AR

All right, so we are making visit.

W

AP

All right so envelope, CMS is a class whose purpose is the sender of data. Has a certificate with a public key identifying the person they want to send data to they build up the data as a encrypt just for that entity and they send it receiver gets. It calls decrypt this today. If what the current decrypt methods do, is they search through various windows certificate stores to find the certificate that matches the description? Because all that gets written down is an identifier representing your certificate about the actual certificate so we'll search through we'll find one?

AP

If we find one that's a match, we'll use the private key handle that we can get from the certificate and then we'll decrypt it. This doesn't work for places that we have private key handles that we can't associate such as when they're from key Balt and.

AP

So the solution and then the other one, which was a stack overflow question someone had, is, if I'm, in the middle of a certificate rollover, how do I know which entity which certificate they use when encrypting it for me, and there was just no way that you could accomplish that so on the portion of sign, CMS and envelope CMS, which identifies what certificate was used somewhere, which is subject to identify ur, adding an is match for you give it the certificate that you want to know is this the is this significant that you represent and then it will tell you yes or no, and then so now we being able to loop over the recipient infos, which is an existing thing that you can do when you find this recipient who's.

AP

Subject: identifiers as it matches this certificate, then now you can either pass in the private key handle yourself off of the certificate or, if you get it externally, because you know it's a t-bolt, you can call the new decrypt method and then this one won't search the store at all because you've told it. This is the key that you will use to decrypt.

AU

So why is the method? Coat is much and not something like matches certificate whatever and me you didn't think about.

AV

You know alternatives. You kind of, like just I, didn't look for what we had for consistency. I figured that this this room would know what we had for consistency, so.

AU

It's not realistic. It's just I can imagine that, like you have the subject, identifier is much much for work so much as certificates. Much.

AW

Consider different right now: it's still methods, but it's in plain.

AP

What does it have two properties, one of which is object.

AP

Mean I'm telling you what the object property is.

AP

AV

Match assert, if you did some time, I think.

AU

I just asked so you I have no idea how these things would use in practice, but I gave.

AV

You my day, yes.

AU

AV

AU

AV

Taking it was a his match was a top.

AP

Of my head method, name that I gave for Christophe W to prototype is that if things would work.

W

AQ

AP

F

Sojanet, gender.

AQ

Name trophy notices.

AP

Want to get the other CMS issue, he'll.

AQ

Have they should whoo things work faster, oh well, the to droop. So can we do 25 for.

AQ

Q

AP

What work so for Assigned CMS there's the thing that you can do when when signing, which is you could have some signed attributes on your signer and you can have unsigned attributes on your signer. The purpose of unsigned attributes in the spec is they can be added after the fact, but our our API design only allows you to have all of the attributes that you don't care about signing during signing time. This complicated some scenarios for nougat because as part of nougat package signing which uses sign CMS, they need to add attributes after the fact.

AP

So they got to use some knowledge about when some signature values, don't change, etc and they essentially just reconstructed the whole object and copied the signature from a previous value.

AT

Only question is on the existing signer info type. There is two properties called authenticated attributes and are nothing together, attributes in the book type of ArrayList. So the way.

AP

You would basically add those you would say on authenticated action, you add those are detached copies from the document by the time you read them and no longer knows what document that came from making it know. What document that came from would be a functional change like anybody who was already mutating them. That would be mutating a live document when they never had been before it.

AT

Gets all I'm trying to say is like it should it be unsigned attributes dot.

AP

Add, rather than a dunce on item you look at that's the unsigned attributes returns a copy that then doesn't know what document to came from it is you can modify it because it returned you, a collection, but that does not modify your document. You say document would be my document, the signer in full-time assigned to CMS that the signer info came out. Was it yet normal time, so signer infos can only be constructed by sign CMS.

AP

So you have a CMS document, you've loaded it into the science CMS class, to ask it. What's going on you move over the signer infos? If you ask, if you read the the collection property off of it, you can modify that to your heart and if you call encode to go, write the bytes out again, it doesn't understand you modify. So we already have that property could unsigned attributes I have like we call them unauthenticated attributes that the spec calls them unsigned.

AP

So so we ordered the pivot property if the proper rule modified the property relation you're.

AT

In the mana, one yeah I'm not sure whether that's just because it happens to be the first entry, because.

AW

AU

Sure ours is called.

AT

AU

Outside and if you modify, the collection is as it has.

AV

A different meaning than on.

AU

AP

Own hi, that's kind of weird cuz, if you, if you modify the collection, so the collection has been mutable since dotnet framework, oh, but the collection has never known what object it came from. So if you grab the collection, you remove things, you add things, you replace things and then you call encode on the sign. Cms object itself: it's not aware you mutated, a signer input.

AU

Since it uses a list in the signature, it has watch behavior, where the methods on collections have different meaning than methods you should.

AV

AU

AV

We have that that's the one you're talking about right, yeah,.

AP

So we don't have a realist, we have yes, we have a very complicated collections type and so.

AT

Basically you're saying: is it like a dunce on attributes is different from unsent attributes. Dad, yes,.

AW

AP

That's, which is the same as our existing add counter Siler says: should we be assigning four? Yes, so remove countersignature and counter signers that remove already have that problem as of dotnet framework, oh and you think, having.

AU

Such complicated semantics make is it easy to write, secure code? No, because we've been beaten up to submission when we designed own memory that, like complicated semantics, make it easy to write. You have sir teachers.

A

Are tighter than you.

AU

AV

Yeah this is everybody, knows that there's this collection here that is detached all mutations to it. Well, whether or not they know it, if we made it all of a sudden, be attached.

AP

And made it have live modification semantics that would be a break. That would be a potentially breaking change to people. A lot.

AQ

AP

Between desktop I'm, a right so so I don't want to change the behavior of the existing code, which means we need a new method. So the for counter signers, you can add them with compute counter cider and remove counter cider. And so then this is a done signed, attribute or Groupon set attribute to mirror that so.

AT

When I started, this viewer I said it's crypto. Who cares just approve? That's what I meant, because, like every time you look into it, we try to improve it. It's like it's already, but.

AU

Let's make it consistent to what we already had, so it's the same, remove methyl ads and you add methods rules. Well, thank you to fix it. What was it yes, when I was reading on, write and writing and reading and like glazed.

AP

Write some buffer api's, so that's the top one and then the the bottom one or the the other half of the issue is on the sign, CMS class. It can have a collect. It can have a collection of certificates that you're supposed to be able to use when walking through all the signers again.

F

When signing you.

AP

Can you can put a collection of certificates of go merge this in with the set, and you can also get that collection back and you can modify it, but it doesn't have any any effect if you modify it so then ads should be getting removed certificate to modify the one on the document instead of modify the collection. Let's.

W

Go this is a well I mean I, guess Ruth.

AU

Can we add, like a boat to github if it's in systems security, cryptography.

AV

We approve or a mad, you change the name of one of my mouth see this meeting provided I agree. There was.

AP

The other one I had.

AV

Precedence yeah.

AP

AX

Ready for next season once.

AT

What can I say all right? Is this one easy? Yes,.

R

Api is using is the future not so much as Jude's. Everybody settled on the pattern for this runtime feature to class, yet I'll be doing it. I.

AP

Mean it should not be a bull. I can tell you that you want it to be a trillion renewable yeah.

R

Like a pattern is just whether or not this defined or not is the bull, because I'm we don't actually need to complete a Pilar should not be actually execute, go to figure it out exactly shine.

AT

Your existence, so it can be, saw it. No, it's actually this that it's the presence of the field and the idea is that, like you, would pass it into is supported. You won't put it one time I.

AT

So the idea was that, like any of this type, is that it's ethically discoverable, where that features are available based on the target, interacts seasons. Edit feature is there? If you want to compile against it say an older version of nest and I would the field is missing? You would call is supported, passing the value of set string. Yes, well, that's not what Morgan wants yeah I was going to say that has JIT thing.

AP

Is not going to be in that boat so why not because he won, but he wants the feature for his mi na ot or not or something like is a jitter going to run and therefore I can use dynamic or not, and therefore I can't.

AT

Well, last week, while I, wouldn't that the aesthetic feature of the targeting URL thermic retargeting, is you Nikita had to do you? Don't.

AU

Have the defense.

AP

On that on time, not on the framework that sounds it can be, the il that was emitted by CSC is the same, and then a ot would change the runtime environment. You're in or you could be, you know, I would say peer interpreted that that would probably.

F

AP

One time yeah this is actually a runtime question like like are am I running on a Mac.

AU

Sensing the runtime features type, but the other ones damaging.

AV

This is where it's yan kotas.

AP

Told him to put, which is why I I see a boolean property of a runtime feature and Yan code has told him to put in there. So it sounded easy.

AY

Maybe discard kinetic ability, we have that runtime environment class, but it's a closest thing.

AP

Yeah, so there's what he wants is an actual I need to know. If my runtime is capable of sitting using a dynamic bending I.

AU

Mean listen areas, sound I would say, should it be cold? Can I use dynamic, metal, presumably.

AP

There's more than one thing tied into whether or not as a JIT yeah.

AT

I, don't really college it, but, like basically, you know, has what I'm cooking but yeah, which.

W

Is basically but any method.

AU

Well, there are many different kinds of from around the cultures and they can all be independently chart off and on some, for example, or FM. It is very different from 2d.

AU

AP

We have a gym environment, doesn't ever I. Think.

AU

So so I think our doesn't like you. Don t allows you to cheat in some cases, but.

F

I'm, not I wanna.

AT

AU

Not stress emitter, something you.

O

Know if you know, there's.

AU

An orphan it out what kind of response affected.

AP

Not like it's like the it's a valid point. If we think that we would have a case where dynamic can work, but ref omit can't and have interpreters in some cases will remove depression of Irish and then maybe maybe the passage it isn't actually the interesting question it may be in addition to figuring out, if that's the right place, to put it, we need to be a bit more expressive with what we're asking for here, because it would be bad to get a bunch of things using the same value here and you.

AV

Find out later that we need.

AP

To bifurcate them it's just later.

AU

AP

Spend we have more precise.

AU

You know we later on can add more precise checks. This one is just a matter of.

AP

Factly, do ravage it or not, that's been and then I guess. If something was like well, what I really cared is this dynamic work and we have an environment that has a JIT that doesn't care about the dynamics and then go fix this broken check, so I guess we find out I would.

AT

Say there's two kinds of like one option that we have is not 48 or 110 feature and instead of having it literally on things like dynamic matches or assembly builder and say, is that emic massive dog is supported and then that's the way. It would do that because I think that's more 9, completely checks, if you have like registry daughter's support or whatever and I think that will be a better model, because one-time features is really designed to be static.

AT

Lookup for the compiler, that was the design of the time I mean you could argue the nameless. Unfortunately, pen.

AU

Check no one suspects, maybe it should be called compiler feature support. No, but it's not about compiler interest. It's really about that capability at the right time at compile it.

R

In lamb, I'm execute how he's even making this code work at all while she's rough Amit is not really standard anymore. So I can't write it as a library he's got a target one of the core platforms that have some reprimand or exposed. Listen.

AT

Riff admit but isn't.

R

That, in on some recommend a sure, yeah I, just looked.

AT

It up it's in the recommend, play that doesn't yank.

AT

It's gone in standard, but it does this in system reflection by the mid-thought lightweight, which is different from system but affection, but in it yeah. But it's in the same pocket back adjust sure it's in the same bucket. But like. Could that not be available for.

R

Necessarily know there's a whole issue. People are not very happy with me right now. Cuz I unlisted this packages because they.

AT

Were no but the the full resection when the problem was we couldn't build. The package again said that if he couldn't do why from try it, but then I think NASA doesn't have that problem so that package we could actually build against God. Is that right? Okay.

R

AT

R

Because of type in fulcrum, the type input doesn't have a exposure constructor nor I get that. But why.

AT

Does it feel for that there's other than boom? That's the memorable! That's what I'm thinking like I think again it why it doesn't work for full section, but it should work for that. So well, we don't currently have that it doesn't exist, become we don't have it. The question is whether we could have an answer. Might be yes or no I mean.

R

If we didn't have it.

AT

We couldn't add a new API to it status. Well, muffle friend up, that is true, but what about run type feature? There is a potent there. I didn't be shipped on time future as well. We had a police yeah so like then, that one that should net sale tomorrow might be put. If you have to figure hobby work back so I don't know, I would I would prefer, if put on any method and I'll, send a bullet or a typo or whatever, and then that's.

AU

Where you look it up, and then we figure out whether we can make that I mean it would be good to have Morgan here enjoy that I might notice. We are doing lots of issues where the owner is not well here, because I.

AP

Sit well that one's it's.

AU

AP

The the previous meeting is supposed to be fast things where we decide. We need the owner or we can approve it without and Morgan had actually asked me if he needs to show up and I said. If it's easy, we usually approve it, and if it's once it turns out that it looked easy, but it's hard, then you'll get summoned.

R

This isn't the whole bucket up, you know, figuring out dynamic, feature discovery. We have the whole other issue about how to turn what framework I'm running on my free time, I'm running, on which.

AU

Teams we already covered lots of ApS gear. It seems like 1% of the framework surface, I guess for it and.

AP

And every time we ship one we a lot kind of going. Yes,.

R

One person I consider the whole reflection, API service or.

AU

Maybe we should have a dynamic ATI for it, so we don't have to add new API significant. Is it definitely just like dynamic object, and then you can call whatever method you want on it.

AU

If the method works, the feature is supported. Teacher doesn't yeah, we've talked about that.

R

For feet, we we we asked, it was even have a patent.

AT

All right, this is what I wrote any concerns of that, otherwise it would just I thought we should just add this needs.

AU

Now that you said that I remember that we have will I hope you.

W

Okay, let's debate that right.

AX

um For use it once.

AT

AX

Right 9 for free is the compression all yeah good.

AX

Basically, we have the compression methods we recently did broccoli in there and before people you know hard-coded like hey, deflate or gzip. The option is actually put there, like you know, known Nana or negative. None, that's all very good on discovery, so you're thinking opening all like you know, hey I, don't care which the compression of this whatever you support, give me all of them.

AX

Their whole, you.

AT

AX

I think it's a dependent. Actually, you would just pass to the metal ball already compression.

AT

Boy can really say all their Britney.

W

AT

Demon yeah any or all because you're, not pressing with all, are you pressing, good you're picking up your.

AS

AT

AS

As the name is good as well yeah.

W

AT

Guess anyway, I think others will be better, because all it like it, the book, some sort of policy that you did. Somebody has to come up with right till your.

AX

Exit list or ending or nom nom as default and the.

AT

Other options can just change the initialization of the property.

AQ

Change one, the.

AR

Only compression is x1.

AX

Well, we could change it to all, but it's a breaking change.

AX

Currently people are used that the only big operation compression was impart even.

AT

How would you rely on because I mean the idea? Is that already compression just means that if the server is supported, you're opting into that automatic yep just make more scenarios work, I'm.

AX

Going to actually be sent over to server like you know, these are the the compression mobility support. Oh sorry,.

AT

So there's a lot of the right actually long make sense, because you're saying I support, all of them yeah or.

AX

You basically say like whatever, whatever about what I'm, what I'm running on whatever.

R

It supports like yeah.

AX

Hello, I'm, okay, to use just you know for anywhere else, so that didn't.

R

Sound right, I, don't think so.

AU

So one thing: that's kind of I understand why we are doing this, but all would mean all ones and when you eat basically it is smart at all.

AU

It's all present.

AX

And future yeah, it's all that you know. What are you learning on supports?

AX

Basically, you want to stay away from listening explicitly rich once you know, I won't do list I'm earning going to be CL. You know, I'm, a library I think something whatever it runs on like you know, I want.

AZ

All of those yeah, so you.

AU

Get let's say you get the value all and you end it with pin 32 set.

AU

It gives you a value that doesn't exist yet you can then do today nice what my honor can do it, but you can do it by using numbers, not using parties of the enum, ah but when it has a paper one, maybe it was called all the question is: should all be all ones or it should be just all these values, or rather than upon fee. You would have changing animating now.

AT

You can do the random by.

Y

AT

So I think it's either going to be like this or it's going to be like not only invite all this there's another improper th declined that it says, I, don't know said all or something which seems a little bit weird spirit and not unhelpful. Also I mean I, don't like the compression enough. It already is specific for networking, so it seems like adding that in emergencies all.

AX

Right honestly, it's just shortcut for the notes or you know a river of lava, which is something that you would recommend people to do. It's.

R

Just what be honest like it's not obviously there's a whole bunch of headers because it looks like for each one we're basically adding a new header for this diversity into which requests. So all of this basically has a fishing on one of them all the time. So there's a what made the check will be the same, only added compression, but it's somebody understand.

F

It did check will.

R

Be assumed because the way we're feeling know about it, but I'm saying it's gonna, we're going to add a whole bunch of headers to do. We want that to be sort of the what people do I just.

AX

I, don't know if it matters too much but yeah if people care about the size of the headers or something eventually, if it goes over ten or something which, when I, have an all right. Let you know, then they can explicitly say that I care about nominees, because I know what my separate us right and if your library, your problem to work against any server I.

AT

Think it's actually one header, it's just more separated pipe separates it from suburbs. It's pretty good. Yeah yeah.

R

It is the same pattern: everybody's.

AX

O

AX

Number three.

O

AT

But much sleep yeah. What's the next one? Twenty five zero! Forty under.

AX

Networking one so this is about TCP keep alive.

AX

And right now we have I believe we have the option to kind of enable keep alive, but there are three things that can be set and that's the people, lifetime interval and retry count, so we're proposing that we're gonna add them to the socket option, name which we already have like IP specific things in there, so kind of protocol specific options on the sockets. So it's not new thing. The only caveat is that you know these options are not all implemented or supported on all operating systems, especially the retry count.

AX

So we're going to be doing not know up in certain cases.

AX

So older version of Windows.

AQ

AU

Windows done so, if they are not, if they are no obscene some cases, would it make sense to add some suffix prefix implying that, like, for example, added hint, you know keep a life retry count hint.

AU

That's the suggestion.

W

Would be against that.

W

It is sort of flexing right. How do you combine him? You.

AX

Don't uh I don't know you.

BA

See they use example.

H

Usage over there, you.

AX

Know it's basically hey I want to sub this here's the video you know.

K

The way can you guys hear me yep yeah, so the way TCP and the networking stack handles this is there? Are all these different named options, some of which apply to specific quote levels which could be like IP TCP socket? Some of them can apply to one. Some of them can apply to multiple, and so the native API is provide a function of sock hops, which you call and you pass in the level the option name and the value you want to set it to.

BB

That power set socket option is a very thin wrapper around that right. Thank you mean that this is effectively the pattern that we already have I, don't see it falling and.

AT

A given I mean basically also seems like there's no, when this is indication that that stadium for the thing is using right already, cuz I mean I can call Brendan stuff on my stay. There may not make sense right, yeah.

K

I have to know what level to use with what name with what value. And if you choose a bad combination, that's dictated by the OS.

BB

You get back an error, or it just ignores it, and that one will work across back like this is various that working.

AX

Yeah, we basically translate the numbers do each operating system. These are actually.

AQ

AX

AZ

K

Ends why these things end up getting defined by us here, because the numbers do differ across platforms. So we can't just provide like a generic set, socket option and say well just just cast it city, that's whatever your value is to be enum and it'll just work, because the number is different across OSS, but.

AT

The years that this is not window specific, we just happened to take the windows number, so our intro, so it's easier but like yeah I, can do is any discover Linux in the world. Right. Yes,.

BB

There's different numbers.

AT

So did we address.

AX

The hint so Steven you've already said that we have a couple of things that we, you know do know of when we sell it in certain cases. So I have.

K

To go home and say I would err on the side of keeping the name as close to the native platform name as possible, and so not adding additional words like hint, but I'm, not sure it really matters. We can double check to make sure that there are in fact ones where we currently ignore them. I'm 90% sure there are but I'm, not 100% positive.

F

AU

Know totally, it was just a solution and especially they are like. If we already have some things I ignored, then they completely doesn't make sense. We don't and it's something to consider because, like a silent, that's something else than you'd expect.

AX

I'm sure they're going to bring this is all for the httpclient Expo here right now,.

K

Carol, are there any places we're going to use these new values internally in our implementation and core effects like sequel, client or h3 client journey such things sequel.

AX

Kind is actually the one that would benefit in two point: one time: training crews just to wait. So there was one of the investigations on the next that you know that Tomas did.

BC

So, as part of this work, part of the work is not only exposing a bit using it. That's.

AX

BC

Of this work, but yeah we will tell the sequel time climb team, like guys, you can now go and use it if you're tracking, now there.

AX

W

AX

One two: six: nine seven, five.

AX

So we have the cookie collection. The today exposed I collection such as tuna stew, well expose interface, Alpine collection, who.

AX

AY

All of my beer, your brain. What about I read on collection, Imam,.

AM

BD

AT

I'm, looking forward to the.

AT

I ain't collection but yeah it will cry rough at the center. But that's already.

AX

The most I only this is one generic one. What.

AU

About what about the I read on the list we don't have. Many of them is awesome. No.

F

AU

Collection is at least I think I. Remember.

AU

Movie stupid, you know I collection. Well, what I meant is I collection, disease.

BA

That one might be true, but a tire list is in decimal: no, no, no! Okay, yeah! Oh.

AU

I see yeah yeah I collection of these basically correct.

AT

That's there is some hula virtual connections between generic substantially okay.

AM

AX

You're, putting in the wrong place or open API yeah, that's fine, just open the first one, and then she went 800 600 for it take.

AU

R

AU

You have I blame anders. He agreed to an idea from the crazy junior.

AT

The only ones are messed up but and I'm playing for that, but the non generic ones, indirect ones I- did not work.

AU

Little did not command process. Look how many years it survived. It was even added to that standard.

W

The default thing game.

BE

We talked about this for my oh.

Y

Well, that was the moment. Oh that's why I talked to Jared about this and the Jared said basically, no.

AT

Come on vamos uplands, weepy, new woman and said every time you ask for a voyage to change. The answer is always going to be.

AU

Then, okay, so what we could do is the compiler could understand. Method called get a numerator to encode and prefer it over get an American.

AZ

Channeling Jarrett no, but.

AT

They could so the only thing we could do.

G

Is effectively.

AT

Like add a new method or property right, it returns everything. So then you can at least write a for loop about endings about it.

AU

Let's call the method get into later to.

K

The other option, which is I, think what y'all was suggesting we could do, is simply wait until some future date when the JIT supports escape analysis and could stack, allocate the innumerable.

W

AT

Twenty years from now, we will have an implementation for that. That sounds reasonable.

AT

Yeah I think if you want to have something fast and I, think adding a new API is probably the the best thing you can do.

AT

This one I, don't know like to me. It seems like it all whole like up on a hack to just having the time that you have to directly construct, and then you cannot even enumerate it I mean correct family. You could make the type itself in you mobile, but just adding to get you more rate or the deterrence to this. That may be okay. Alright, then Lisa can write a four-issue.

AU

What you will change an existing return.

AT

AU

Of an existing method.

AT

I will just.

AU

Add in method on enumerate or.

AU

How do you get an instance of a numerator two color metals of it like this sign is good white, but you still have to manually and is reach it afterwards. I don't have to like yeah but like so. Why would we not just add a method, you know and get the numerator 2 maybes and I'm denied, but like get struct a numerator.

AT

Or value yeah yeah I mean that that will work.

BE

Even probably, don't want to call it get value, a numerator on something that has a t-value.

AU

Things are everything who said codons chart instruct us.

AT

Getting him writer little bit kind of been just utakata to say: if there's a higher number I made it, we use that one.

Y

Schwartz jarred it up for that.

AU

And over low dose get eliminated.

AY

What would your argument be? Would fast.

AY

Though, a look, allocating or not I think.

BE

I, even if you, if you call a trophy just a unit, dummy object, exactly just okay.

Y

W

Yeah, there's no good way to do it.

AT

So Steven it's up to you, you file it also only if you otherwise I declined to wait.

K

That's fine I mean hey I filed it, because I saw it show up in a profile my memory profile, but not it wasn't like a hot bath thing. I, just I saw it in the trace and I was like. Why is that? Oh crap right, so we could hold off on it until we find a real need and then do whatever the best option is at that time, because.

AT

I also feel like, if you know, if people have to change their code and drastic ways, it's very hard to get the benefit in I got across the board and, like that's I mean, what's appealing with the odds option. Is that you know you just don't change code. It just is no magically faster, but I'm always skeptical of these features because they tend to break stuff. And then we can't actually do that.

W

AU

So, okay, so is it really a breaking change to return the change, the return type yeah, because I.

AT

Don't require you to the signature, is burn-in is the return type plus the other one.

AT

Well mmm and see, show me cause we kind of had the other one return path, because I was completely it's good.

AU

This is so unfortunate, well.

AU

We can encourage, from concurrent dictionary height this method than that one.

W

Let's go end it here. All.

AU

We had getenumerator to pattern like when is Janet opposed to something like this, like you know how for each works on the compiler? Yes, it's.

AT

Crazy, so like every time you try to add something. It's basically like all resolution requests, but they're like well, that's started no and let's see where it exists, because there oh.

AW

AU

I think if we feel that this actually shows on profiles, we should just do this feature and gather it and a method. I will just add some method. We invent a name, then.

AT

Ethical fighter binding. Is that one? No, you.

AU

Just a little one yeah, it's just you know. Basically it's like you know it's all with our pattern and it yeah I. Guess.

AU

We have this issue.

AT

In several places, so Jeremy was supportive of just name icon fire just make make it even right or for you alright, so you could just say for each R X.

AT

AX

That one I think seems like it. Wheeze little fix you just there you just close the top. What does it mean? It's gonna bring them excellent next time, fine like either close it or approve it or options list it here, suck.

AU

You have professional language.

AW

F

AT

Five minutes before he replies well, you already like told me that he's in favor all.

AZ

AX

AU

Don't you very.

W

Sad, we have a plan all right well this because he wants to do this. Video.

AT

AU

We can have the API and then it just for it starts working.

AU

Just like we added the long length to erase.

AU

No but I got the talk.

AU

The talk was just like: we ended the long neck's we're ice.

AZ

Hitting a long time thinking, it's been thinking about that it has long in the name. What do you expect.

R

Do we really want to shake to more descriptive.

AU

Value animator, which would make sense, except for the.

W

Fire you, you should I mean I mean that's the thing I like I. Guess it's a no.

AZ

That's what you think, there's gonna be! No, if you don't like it.

AT

Too then DX, oh yeah, the X is great, better, not have ever x2.

Y

Okay, so it is, if you can't come over the better noon. That's what.

AU

And besides the Eliminator enumerates balance.

AZ

AU

Our debugging session would expect.

AZ

There will be no need to change compiler at all, but that's right. No, there would be because he disco doesn't know you cannot wait for all.

X

AX

All right, so, okay, so we're gonna, do I'm gonna, keep it I feel ready for of you hold on. Oh.

AU

So they're, the change that jared is interested in doing is a numerating and Emeritus, not.

F

AU

Eating can enumerator to write.

BE

It really means marker, is it just qualms until we, you know, have a need for it? This is like what are we supposed to do at this point yeah this.

AT

Is a big I think more or less like you know, I'm interested in Jerrica feel any action actors signing.

Y

AQ

Asking what we're doing not yeah.

W

But then it's not talking the best of the world, which could be mean and.

W

AT

Monday would be honest all right, so then I think we are done for the day, because it's not the weekend in a few minutes unless you.

AX

Can make Christian happy, but it's not gonna see what 14 three three four, because I have more question for bus because it feels weird sitting predicted.

D

AX

Of 14 3 free-for-all doesn't expose parameter less constructor. Oh.

R

AT

Why don't you just take that there's.

R

Nothing I can do to fix it. Yes, you get put in all the platforms in order before you make extend, you can put it in core right now. That's not going to help the problems of people with morning, which is the standard. No, but I mean if you want to change it like better start, something.

AT

There I have no issues with putting it important till then API.

O

We just push it for. What's.

R

Changed there's no issues with me, but people were wanting it for standard which is not not gonna. Have them so.

AU

Basically, now you can just create type in front of the group production yeah. You can hear it from type info and then you've always.

AY

AU

That for type anyways, then you have to pass something to the constructor. I just got four empty protected structure, all type, not diabetes.

R

It's the same thing: we're just trying to hide it. Alright, I'm gonna, do it you didn't make your page. You won't be able to use a great one before you don't write a hundred billion methods, all right, all right, perfect, quite.

AX

A few refresh just for fun m26 towards 1918. What to do.

Y

W

All right, I would say: there's a line.

AW

It's the letter at.

AT