.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 17 Oct 2017

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From YouTube: .NET Design Reviews: GitHub Triage

Description

00:00:00 - Approved: Rename MemoryHandle.PinnedPointer to Pointer https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24426#issuecomment-337305000
00:18:08 - Needs Work: Disposables in CoreFx: SerialDisposable, CompositeDisposable, etc https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/14891
00:40:23 - Approved: Add DateTime.UnixEpoch and DateTimeOffset.UnixEpoch fields https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24449#issuecomment-337315763
00:51:47 - Approved: [ExcludeFromCodeCoverageAttribute] should be applicable to assemblies https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24694
01:49:06 - Approved: Add Base64 conversion APIs that support UTF-8 for Span(T) https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24568#issuecomment-337334707

A

Like I watched the livestream as well and then I, let the audio up and then bad thing sends it happen about.

B

15 seconds later, yet yes, exactly.

C

So I have it tortured over here. Alright, then tell me the number: are we ready for transformation status, enum from Carfax lab no.

D

We should do the utf-8, parsing, formatting and base64 I.

C

Detect we have the span in the second hour, so we can leave it for okay yeah. So if the transformation status is not ready, why, oh, it's marked blocked. Okay,.

E

C

Second, one in.

E

Someone share the screen.

C

Oh yeah I could but you go to just watch the YouTube and you can ask comments on on the YouTube as well. Yeah else. You.

F

G

Youtube, don't.

H

See your streaming I'm streaming, but the problem is that it's in public.

A

And I can see it right now, so it's really happening.

A

I

The PM version of works on my box exactly it seems on my book all right. What's the number.

C

That's the end PTR versus you and PTR door, 22.

D

0 to 5 6, so I found it adding is here because of the u.s. utf-8 parsing and formatting. Should he come back in an hour or we should do it now or re? Maybe you want to just I'm, mostly observing cz kind of you don't mind sitting here for two hours, um I.

J

Don't know well, okay, they'll never be precisely 11. So.

C

That's 2 2 is the UTF parsing kind of related to spam or in the second hour or not well,.

D

J

C

C

So we have this issue open for three weeks. We can postpone this or I know ready for ready.

D

In front oh I see, this is related to the whole discussion about native ins.

K

I

Yuri allergic to be observing I'm allergic to native it.

A

We can't I mean, like the only reason we should probably bring in awesome, because I think he only comes at 11:00. So, okay thinking earlier that we can okay, this one I did I just didn't do all right. So then, so we just go with this one then, before we I don't have strong opinions, because, as already on the screen that I.

G

L

H

E

M

G

E

C

You can treat it. I did.

H

It just unlisted: hmm do you have any.

B

So these are everything on the screen here is new API being proposed, is everything on the screen down here.

N

Somebody said that you will probably expose new.

A

Ties by the compiler it will not map to in PD. Are you.

D

In PR there will be net new types right: it's it still not closed, whether they will map to this type or not. We haven't made that decision, but there are compatibility problems if we want to. If we would want to map the new language teacher stood to this type, but regardless whether you're posting it, whether the language teacher will be mapped to this new type or not, it would be I think good to expand. What in pointer has in terms of API surface plus.

D

Right now, it's kind of you know it's a strange type. It has some operations, it doesn't have others.

D

D

There were people who wanted to keep in pointer, you invite them to be super super simple, and then there were people who wanted to have more and more operations, and we kind of ended up over years in the middle and I. Think the Battle of having in pointer being super super super simple, is already lost, so I think it just makes sense to you know. Fill in the API is that people want to use is the.

O

Intent behind this to make this a proper type, where you can do addition subtraction, so on so.

D

This is the this is the native in discussion that we have. If we, if we decide to map, then language features to this type. Then yes, but it's there are so many issues, for example like language native int, the types you would like them to other checked unchecked blocks in in the language. We cannot do it for in pointer because it would be a breaking change. For example, there's.

P

D

Are some ideas how we can I call it hack it such that it kind of works, but they all kind of solutions? So, as I said to summarize, it's not yet clear whether the language teachers will map to this type or not, but I think it just makes sense to add API. Smack people have been asking for these api's for when.

Q

We get native him when.

D

We had his API if we prefer.

Q

A man deprecated now.

D

Q

Think these operations will just be using Internet.

D

So many people said that if we don't map the language features to these types, they will keep using these types anyway, because they have too much code invested, and you know using in pointers, hearing pointers. So they said, even if you don't provide the language mapping to these types, we still want. Additional API is because we we need them and we're not gonna move away from each pointer.

A

So what was the compatible issue again? I think that was the idea that it.

D

Was like the check/uncheck problem right? Well, it was checked and check and it was a behavior of two strain other two I.

D

Forgot there was maybe one more and anything is to resonate and I mean if we're not all. In boxing there were like differences that you know that you would be good, detect, diffused reflection or boxing and.

B

So if it's not being uses a full numeric type, then I I think that the rule equals event. Hitter is the only thing which that.

B

The boolean equals event fitter and.

P

R

B

D

Another well even can you show existing IP ice on a pointer yeah because.

M

D

It will change your mind. It's already kind of a bit I liked.

S

Edit on this, it's not a pure, like arcing.

O

Doesn't make sense so I actually have a developer house that I did work around it without too much my work around it. You can use it by.

P

You all I used all because I'd.

B

P

O

Run 164 and then I can subtract a few yeah.

B

That's my objection to all the interface things is: is we expect most of our people these days to be working on a 64-bit system, so.

P

All the end stuff.

B

Is just setting you up earlier.

D

Well, why is just compared to an it? Why wouldn't you have option yeah like.

E

D

We know K we. If the comment is the API should be expanded than sure hope. We have.

A

Yeah so that gets far as existing, if you guys don't they.

E

Q

P

Of zero, valuing.

Q

This is not necessarily.

D

So we already have subtract that takes an int which is interesting.

D

We already started on the path of having arithmetic operations, understand.

B

Yeah but usually you're, not like long jumping your memory, more than 4 Giga way from I. Have this thing here. I know that I want to be the thing. That's 8, gig that way.

D

So one thing I will be interested who found this proposal like why this subset of AD I said not some others. So that's an interesting question because it still feels like a subset of something that people want to do with well,.

A

I think I think what he has done is. He is basically looked at it and added the api's that it has to this side like in, doesn't have operators 4, + and pretty much none of the other ones, because your whole bill did well yeah.

D

Because them, but like they ability yes, so.

A

This tightly doesn't excel operators.

D

Like it's just but the reason for it is that, if you have methods, then the language has to call them and cannot provide the unchecked semantics semantics. Yes,.

A

Well, there's that it's also just.

E

A

A

See the question is, like you know, what do we do of? This means that, even if you were to add operator, then if the language starts to actually map to these types in the corner ourselves again into weird position right now, the compiler has to decide to it called operators or do I will treat them as intrinsic sign, and we don't want to do that, which kind.

Q

Of begs the question whether provided quality I feel like this is a little premature. My dream is that on the native anything about here's, it work yeah.

B

These methods, here, like comparisons and parsing unrelated right, like I, think the thigh I comparable with it pointer, is reasonable. I couldn't like it's like less than exists, so.

D

And in addition, I would say we should have language people in the room when we make that this. This decision on this API, like jayate, has been involved in some of the discussions about motivates. You should be here and.

O

You unit said that it was told over surest on a date. Event would be exposed as design and.

Q

If we have more EPS to him that might meet that harder.

H

I think no like one of the concerns Missouri.

H

B

I think tabling this until native enters resolve this so.

A

Who's driving the native man's.

D

Told me he will schedule a meeting very soon. um I I forgot it. It can be like within two weeks or or something like this. He gave me a date. I forgot what it was.

A

Q

A

C

N

643 stops go description for wife, good job and now there's a description in this number. It was a Esther you eat.

K

And you see somebody commented with Tom Bob.

E

N

Everywhere, open up resistance, people like.

T

N

Like it, one person me and the other person.

A

Let me handle it is the thingy that you return when you work well.

D

So when you, when you basically retain memory of D, you get the candle and you can, you can get the pointer out of the handle if the memory was pinned.

H

So, which insidiously it's.

S

D

S

That's why the proposal is useful and finally, maybe.

A

Not to the Corvette's SRX left.

U

A

In context, because.

U

It's, of course you are more Apple. You have been bugging you to.

U

R

K

A

Buzzing, what about ones I think the data is, is a searchable work.

N

It's a buck in the general vicinity, but Lundy.

A

So I think it's all about the opponent Laster this me and yes,.

D

A

Call the pinpointer, because.

D

Because they are no not really other point like it's either in native memory or expand pointer, it cannot be unpaid pointer. There are.

V

No unpin pointers. What's the return type of this.

B

Property, which.

V

Right on the stage start yeah, that's something.

B

You have a pointer to it, you didn't, pin it so. The garbage.

B

T

Pinned itself was a misnomer, because you could easily create, for example, an owned memory around native memory. There's no pinning that happens anywhere. Memory is not moving because the memory doesn't move. So it's not a pinned pointer. In that case, it's just a pointer.

B

Rename the property we should probably renate the constructor parameter unless this is a ship type, but you most will suggest it'll help I hope. Not it isn't. Yes,.

N

It will suggest the type doesn't even exist right.

B

That's why I suggest that it's not part of that.

N

This deterrence voice down right do we have any other places I've.

Q

Returned the pointer PTR looks like I has a two pointer which returns a void start, which is a method. It was very good. No.

A

I'm just trying to look at.

Q

Other residents, if you have anything else, called pointer.

A

Whatever we are calling it, because what I mean I, don't know what else you would call the pointer, unsafe reference.

C

Is pointer on system type.

C

Pointer on and PTR.

E

D

You get a feedback.

C

E

C

Trip no no 94 before.

U

W

Europe, if you're still with us.

T

Yeah, so we added, we already agreed to add two new methods to sock it or extension methods on socket for reading and writing really sync right, a sync with memory and we added them to the socket task. Extensions class, because that's where the existing task based methods for socket are I, think you know when this was originally added.

T

We'd assumed we'd be adding this stuff out-of-band and yadda yadda, but we've progressed since then. That's not really happening, and so it makes sense to you know it logically makes sense to just add them, as instance, methods directly to sock it.

T

The problem with that, as we end up having conflicts with the existing extensions, because the compiler, once it finds instance, methods of a given name, it doesn't consider extension methods so by adding the newel signatures which aren't compatible with the old signatures.

T

You know if someone was passing an array segment and socket flags, whatever the compiler will say. Oh I I can't I can't use that. With this new overload and it'll fail to compile, which means we have two options: either. We, we add them to socket ass extensions as we originally decided, or we add them to the socket class, as instance methods and we had instance based methods of the existing extension methods to the socket class as well.

C

So how many existing you know, extension methods? Do we have to.

T

Of relevance, there are a bunch of extension methods that we could, if you look at socket, ask extensions, there's like ten of them or something, but the only ones that are relevant, for this in particular, are.

X

Actually, this under sense a sink right, say, yeah and to say: sundae sink as well, yes, and a sink and receive anything yeah. So four of them are actually hundreds receive from a sink.

T

No just because we haven't, we haven't decided to add meth memory based over those four that we could. We just haven't yet and the same percent to a sink. So there's a question. You know we could. We could just define the new methods, as they're currently checked in there on socket, ask extensions. We could just leave it like that or we could choose to move those to socket, as instance, methods and also add the ones that could result in conflicts to socket, as instance, methods at which point the socket task.

T

Extension methods are basically obsolete or we could choose to move everything from socket task. Extensions in create instance, methods for all of them, at which point the entire sock, extensions task. Extensions class is obsolete.

C

So what is the conflict that you're gonna get to like if we, if we just move the two new methods into into instance, methods? So.

T

Like, for example, it's a it's a receive async overload that takes a memory of bite and a socket flex once you add that, as an instance method, you then have socket receive a sink that takes a memory bite and socket task. Extensions receive a sink that takes an array segment. Aha,.

P

T

You have an existing call that takes the the raised segments. The compiler stops considering the extension method once there's an instance method of the same name. Oh so it doesn't look for overall on extension methods at all right. It doesn't consider extension, I.

B

O

My name matching.

B

Is all that's considered if no missing method is found at all extension methods? I see our result.

B

Okay, so Steve is a issue.

D

Because there is a conversion from the from array segment.

Y

To memory actually.

T

I misspoke: it's it's not the array segment once if the iowa's, once oh.

K

T

There is no conversion for my list too. You know memory system calls that use the I list ones because it won't consider any of the extension methods and you can error, saying, can't convert a list memory. So if you can change those.

B

People they switch it to a static call, but.

X

Actually, don't think it's we have. We have buffer there. Why do I know if I'm alright does.

C

It make a difference buffer.

X

A

C

A

I just tried what you said: I don't think we just said it's true. The compiler will resolve overloads between it's at an extent.

T

Think that's about that's not the same situation, because this.

B

May be the in assembly. Oh.

A

No, they don't care about, which is somebody sub is in so long it's an extension, but it's an extension that no matter where it's coming from it doesn't change. My.

W

Rules yeah but you've specialized X, that's not the case here. What do you mean a special.

T

Noise X you're calling a method on an extension method on hint. Yes, that's the case versus the instance, an extension method, onion.

C

To shrink instance, method on.

A

C

A

And I added an overload for to string by an extension method. The compiler calls that one instead, isn't it the same? No just.

I

Create new type ax less.

A

Into special I, don't think, and we can try but I'm pretty sure the compiler results over those between the only problem is. You have so many issues where you know when you only consider instance method, it finds a unique match. But if you find, if you consider overloads from extension methods- and you would no longer find a unique one- then they discarded it volatile it.

A

So the only considerate of a name and they physically cannot resolve it. So, in other words, let's say I have an overload that takes an int on the instance and then you also add extension methods and you say I add one that takes a long. Let's say sorry, I'm sorry the instance one has it long, I think sense, but it takes an Internet passing in it.

A

It's the extension method will be the better fit, but that don't consider the extension methods, because this one already applied I think that's true I think they only consider overloads on the extension time if they cannot find a match on the instance method at all. But it's not just by name it's given the types so.

T

A

Do something that's.

T

Going on in this case, because simply by adding it, it fails to compile with that error that I was talking about so.

S

What zero you're getting.

T

What about the error is you're getting dick and I'll convert Alyssa to memory.

A

Maybe the same example, because it only.

P

P

Someone like been helping.

G

P

A

That Palmer provided I can't go.

A

Anyway, okay, so then, if we take this as a as a given that you can't do it on the extension, Phibes I mean I personally, wasn't a fan of the saga tax extensions to begin with, because almost felt like a giant heck, they really should have been there.

A

It is like a good point in time to do that change. That is any concern doing it on the instance scene. Its justification.

T

Duplication and we've created this weird socket cast extensions thing, so I'm distracted, I'm trying to create a repro before we're done discussion when.

E

I prove me wrong.

A

So I mean I I'm, not too concerned that we actually have the same signatures on the other tribe, because in that case we can just literally hide this type, and no existing code is is affected by this I mean it seems like a very clean change, so.

D

Why would we not just keep all of these methods, as extension methods I understand all we wanted? We have to keep them anyway for compatibility right. We cannot just.

C

Remove them no, no.

D

What I'm saying is this issue presumes that we wanted to move some methods to be instance, methods right. What.

Y

Introduced them recently, why.

T

God, yes, she was asking the first option here is: leave everything as extensions yeah.

D

Why would we not do that.

A

What is one of the reasons why we headed earlier, like because I mean, generally speaking when you have stuff like this, you really wanted to have it on the type usually because sometimes you want to exploit things in your implementation, that you can clearly do from an extension type or you want to make things virtual if you want to make the type inheritable I think socket.

D

Is not a senior class but.

A

D

Hypothetical, do we want to.

A

Do any of these like what is driving no I, think about sake tasks I mean I may be wrong, but I believe you know giving the demo. You voted YES on that and pretty sure Schumann I brought up the issue that there are certain things they couldn't do. Nixon can support that.

D

So I had to do something differently than whatever. Oh it.

E

D

Be good to know what it is because I have to say like a change that basically duplicates the methods. It's not I mean there's some, you know less cost to it, and so we shouldn't.

A

Do it without knowing.

D

A

Should the miss extension, but eventually that was already.

A

Okay, so in principle I agree like this I mean it just seems wrong to add more extension methods now like, if you already like said you know, maybe we should make a mint because they just make the debute there. It still.

D

Doesn't change the fact? Maybe we said that we will move them to be instance, methods. What is the reason for it.

D

Don't get me wrong, I, like instance, men talk small, but given the way we are, it would be good to have some non-trivial reason to do it.

D

And also, if we duplicated them, how does it look in intelligence when you have instance and extension methods with the same retention package? Extension methods are completely not visible. Ok, so that's it's not too bad. There's not sure. There's.

Q

A tip, that's not gonna lose power, don't make any sense right. There's.

U

A separate temper.

Q

It doesn't get extension method so I put through then you might get takes it to other.

H

A

That being said, all.

Q

We have to do it shows it, but you can never call it would be a static I guess your completion was auto completion, gonna change it to a static call.

D

Yeah wes is right. Our method shows in intelligence. In the moment you try to call it, it won't be cold, but that's true.

A

Overriding that's the same thing as anything else. What effectively just find the other one.

D

But having said that, I think what you said is right: we could apply editor browsable force, which will kind of solve the problem.

A

Or defines both the five in the method and don't show up in intelligence in the extension syntax and like the other one was you.

E

Don't see the time you don't.

A

See the methods and that's.

E

Q

If we do this, then.

Q

B

C-Sharp language 5.0 specification, says emos coaches out of compile. What did comp us over here as well language spec says it doesn't well.

A

The specs are usually hard to read like.

J

Anyway, so the self remote is a common scenario. There.

B

Are many times the SC deviates from the spec? Usually when the spec says it should fail and CSE is an Ag I suspect I've done hundreds hundreds expect.

J

B

J

A lot myself I can't hear.

A

Some loud anyway, like so I, think if you were to move extension methods, I would I would only hide the ones which we actually duplicate. You want to be still leaving you would leave in and then, if there's at least one extension method, they believe on I wouldn't hide the time.

T

City Hall, okay, but I would all also double check to make sure I'm full of crap yeah.

E

Q

To your wirel implementation, not the spec.

C

G

C

Did actually get.

C

A

Altar, this is an older version of the spec, because I haven't read this day anyway, so I believe you want to wait for them to come back and then either go. Look. I would say number two things to me: is there any benefit of reading something off.

U

A

I would at that point just call the same to Ed. Just everything seems very weird. The.

C

Only thing that might be a little bit against that. We, you know a.

A

C

Months ago we created this guidance of like what we should make instance, methods versus extension methods and that stuff are we in line with that so I forgot. But we.

E

C

You created, or we created the guidance really yeah I. Remember that it was like at some point like we said like: oh, we can add new extension methods and naught and encore types he said like. Oh, we don't want to just blow to the number of number of methods on that and the type of stuff doesn't apply here, but Sony.

E

What I said, but I wish.

A

I had said: don't do it unless absolutely necessary, whatever.

E

I said that, folks with you, but.

A

I remember that discussion, because we wanted to make them in some method a be good, so that was basically compromise in any way it seems like we have just to make sure.

T

And if I was wrong, which I will figure out after the meeting- and we can just add the new ones to sock it, do we want to do anything with the existing ones.

C

I would just leave that.

Q

Stephen is there any permanent games if you make those to be interesting methods as well, so this is the question number one that.

D

You might ask like what will people see as a benefit of moving them? I give this. You know perf improvement, or maybe they've heard from customers that there's some confusion about why these methods are extensions. People cannot find them whatever. There is on this and we should probably move if there's some reason to.

Q

Keep in mind want to do the same thing out. That's not refer to if there's any electric wire.

A

They even exist in desktop right now, I think the only should they stay out of that leg.

Q

That extension library got a different look.

Z

E

Z

E

Man in it well.

Z

Just became part of the standard yellow step. Yes, so just.

G

Takes one platform.

Z

To ship it right so think, with.

G

All the pendants.

G

Should probably call it in badness lot of badness in badness.

H

C

All right, UNIX, a poke two four, four, four: nine I.

T

Miss curious this was added 12 days ago. Does that mean we don't have any ready to review older than 12 days ago yep? We.

C

Cooked up pretty well what.

B

U

We have some unique style.

AA

Systemd time offset thought to universe time seconds so.

B

Date, time do you get it, but they have offset because it makes sense, because it has to.

O

Be usually safe.

H

Saying the handsome.

H

From unit time, sir.

H

B

Time offset you could get this by calling daytime offset from UNIX time zero, but and.

A

Then you don't need to have the epoch on date, because.

H

B

Mean so we should definitely I think it makes sense on date. Time offset. It probably makes sense on date time, and this is a question of how much we feel like evolving day time for saying instead used a time offset I.

D

Think people still use both so.

Y

I think it's fine dad.

AB

Especially if they want to represent in DC, so there.

O

O

Where yeah people were, do we want to keep.

A

My question walking home, she uses a garden I.

E

B

Well, you would be the economic value you have they time that UNIX epoch. You just want to know what the time span is because you're doing something with no wait, just JavaScript use the UNIX D bucket. Is it define its own? There's an example on the top or the.

L

B

B

I mean their example usages. They just want to you next time.

AA

All right date, I'm upset yeah. What do you next time.

A

X

D

Would just take like people on UNIX, especially, are used to this concept. We should just connect for the sake of somebody to next time.

B

It's not that it does different thing like well, it's it's on. We have to file time, which is the windows value. We have that on date time, but the to you next time is only update time offset date. Time is terrible because it has the I, don't know if I'm local time or UTC time, and then it always assumes. Whichever thing you don't want it to do, and big time offset removes that ambiguity by always knowing what time zone, but.

D

They also will say that yeah you can use to UNIX time, but you have to know that you have to first create date time. You know zero.

D

That's a core concept: helix programming, I.

L

Think we should just add those yeah.

B

I, don't have it I.

L

Think it's fine to Adam. So do we need to add the one on the date time of signup or.

C

You know the consistency with existing to unique style like how do we think about that.

B

Private static read-only- and this is just why don't we just make it look static, really.

D

I, don't know, I said: why would we not add it to datum offset because.

C

We have the to you next time over there or it's.

D

Different thing, exact time gives.

B

You technically, we can use it, but more technically you can care that you want. The difference is measured in ticks instead of in seconds, because you next time is defined in seconds, but you want to be relative to that same type once so. The interest income is like the sample code.

O

Here is actually well served by the field. Yes,.

D

This is exactly since I agree with Exxon, but not with the to you. Next time is a perfect substitute for UNIX. That ebook I mean you. Can you can use one to compute the other? But it's like you have to write some code and yeah yeah.

A

I think it's fine to expose yeah I have to say, like this whole idea of like not giving it on day time, because when people to push to date and offset I'm thinking, that's not yes, fair is a question. I think the better way to do it is expose the API and then, for example, have an analyzer that detects that, because you're using day time, don't you know, UNIX epoch probably want to look at data officer, because, whatever you know, you're doing you're, probably assuming the wrong things anyway.

A

If we don't add the API, we have nothing to keyed off of no VA. Now we have to fly kerosene usage of day time. That seems like I'm.

D

Not sure whether.

A

It's incorrect.

D

Because I understand, when you called a time that UNIX epoch, it will give you a UTC instance, basically date and kind I don't see but little it drops. But it's probably UTC it's it's a perfect. It's actually what the epoch! It is. It's even better than representation. Then they time offset frankly, because the offset doesn't make too much sense for UTC plate times. Well,.

E

Well, time offset with an offset.

B

D

Well, LC, then,.

B

It doesn't make sense, it's just a wasted space. The work I mean the problem with date. Time is, if you take a day time and you subtract UNIX epoch if you're a local if the date time that is the left hand, side of the expression, you is the unspecified day time for your answer, makes no sense, but we.

V

Can't but you know.

D

Basically, in your program, you're kind of a careful and all the date times through by UTC. This is a perfect.

H

A

I think we should just at it. This is imperative that the guidance that they time offset is diminished for their time. It's not actually true, because that sounds like what you're saying. Thank you basically,.

P

Represent everything.

A

With absolute zeros, effectively using your TC and in your videos, then they time is fine, because it's a short of area. It's.

B

A smaller major date time is because otherwise, the most.

O

32-Bits smaller, the thing is, like everyone sure or unusual state time, not now inside their applications. Nantes I'm, not you to see well.

A

That's true too, but I mean think that they're the same problem over the.

E

House now is well, cannot unspecified.

O

B

Problem is, when you say new date, time of you know: 2017, comma, 10, comma twenty one at a time and you just hit the close parentheses, that's unspecified, which is whatever you don't want it to be once you start doing operations. So if you my guess, you subtract you.

O

See I need to check on pretty sure that it shouldn't be called.

D

A time optimistic now day.

V

B

The whole goal may.

V

N

Will try to make make it work we'll try to make it work alright, so then I think boutonnieres.

C

Api prove, and so let me let me ask one more question, so what bothers me a little bit on the data offset, we have the two UNIX thangai, which seems to be at least the one of the major like you know, reasons for that. Would it make sense to add instead of adding the UNIX epoch and exposing that and to UNIX matter like? Would it satisfy all of the requests or is there another scenario where the UNIX epoch is really interesting?

C

A

Well, let's say you any.

B

Item that it specifies you have.

A

To write the seconds pass.

B

That, like you, want the minutes, you want the milliseconds. You want a greater than operation. You want, like it date. Time has things that can do this.

O

Is just a number for enough, so we mentioned earlier your application over and you do teams I'm not now by the state I'm, not either. Example. The number you can act.

D

Yes, well, Sammy could do you know they are now any other date that yet then it's not local just.

O

But if we're exposing date time, dot, UNIX epoch is a first-class citizen and we expect people to use it in things like subtraction operations, but.

AB

You know that that's what you know actually I'm thinking, maybe it's actually what you said is.

D

That I just worked fine, then I'm within a code. It doesn't because we know that they time now is throw out. It's not unspecified, and we know that this one is UTC yeah, a little surprised myself.

AB

It's rate Alex, it's a text text, okay,.

C

But that's what's pre-existing problem of the dates time, hello.

B

This question is: are we are.

O

We setting people on certain failure by adding its date. No I think a better thing to do probably would be to take B to your next time from you there's time methods from days, I'm off sub copy, those onto date time. In that way, you can ensure that's the return date times all this in the director.

O

L

Had a hundred.

A

Again, I'm someone hesitant to like try to guide people by omission of API and the reason it doesn't work is that if you can find the API I think you're, not necessarily likely to read up on hold the whole thing works right. You just do some other crazy, hackneyed new daytime offset your thing there and then you save time.

I

And get it back.

A

B

At the end, they get sick. It's a mother. You essentially would want to add it as obsolete. Please call the one that date time offset. No I think this.

A

Work is fine, but it's very easy to detect a second Alice's that you they typed up null daytime, look UNIX epoch and let me say you know what you should call the method of passing arguments regards to me and it seems like a better fix into all of our way. To not give people. Api is just because their name is used because then like. If there are valid ways you can use the API, then the question is: what way do we add by not giving you the API? It seems backwards.

C

Most people can do to date time UTC token, all right, but no. What does it I don't sign up, but once you hit that and oh there's a buck, you can I think you can see I've.

B

Read it enough, people on server teams I've worked on they, they finally started.

B

You'll Equinox they they learn how to not get unit.

R

C

You have a numeral all.

B

Right ALR from then I conclude, that's my old role, I'm, trying to give it up triple buttons. Trying time do a good job.

H

Should we add the guys, because it's the leg like UNIX to.

A

Anyone unit time day.

H

Y

F

K

Feel next time, okay,.

D

It's just so, we should talk to Carrick and ask him, because the semantics of UNIX epoch are very clear. It's a UTC time of you know certain time. These Parekh needs to say like what. What would this amount is be of to you next time, given all the different modes that they tie this in.

B

It would I daytime to Universal Time unity that one. So if you have an unspecified it'll change it because that's what unspecified does I think and that will just be like that will go.

P

In the remarks of.

B

It treats unspecified as.

D

B

D

You know you are, you are pointing out some of mistakes that you can make like I'm, more I'm, less concerned with like exposing the epoch time, and then people not understanding what they tank now is or others. We could say that it has to throw if it's unspecified, but.

B

Right well, this is an ambiguous result. Please please pick which format here it now. What's your above.

W

All right, oh it didn't so we should go with the other two issues. Then people will do. Can we go? Can we go back to the sock and one just briefly.

AA

To two 608.

T

U

Partially right.

T

Partially wrong or I was wrong about my explanation. The issue is exactly that. The compiler does find the conversion from array segment to memory, so it binds more strongly to the new instance method, then, to the old extension method, which would be fine, except that they have different return types and so any code that was performing operations on the return of the operation rather than just awaiting it will break.

A

N

Like reinforces like earlier.

A

Is like you should avoid a situation where we have to do this on an ongoing basis to basically demand that the compiler? That's all the solution between new and old and then just have them either consistently on the extension class or consistently on this since type, so that it's easier for us to reason about overload to me at them.

T

T

A

Because to the hand-picked a method to just said for a given name, we should have. We should move the whole method group, not just part of all right. So then Chris I've just ran out.

A

H

Is already here so like.

AC

Look at this before right, so what has changed since the last time we looked at this I'm a couple of things. First, we don't have them as encapsulated into decoder, encoder classes, nextrip types they are just flat. Api's second, is we added renamed with some of the arguments based on some feedback and method names and added a s, file, block optional argument or.

D

Multiple ideas, so I have a question about this final blow. I added a comment to your PR yeah I, don't know if we want to discuss it now or first, let people kind of understand the API and that can get to it.

AC

Hi idly people to the bottom proposed API.

AC

One of the common ones- that's Pro, question open question, or one.

A

So Bridget lien like the idea, design, revered, nested types that are basically the.

D

Transformer right now, so there was basically base64 outer tie and then two nested, subtypes or utf-16 and utf-32 scan last week. This whole thing with nested types really doesn't work super well in our ecosystem. That is not ready for this, like we didn't, have many nested types in the framework, so our intelligence doesn't work. Refactoring like I now concluded we shouldn't be doing nested types or shall we fix it Tony or maybe fix the Tony, but fixing tuning is like not a super practical solution, so we are nested and that's why they're?

D

You know the names now it says fights to utf-8, because if we ever need to add bytes to utf-16, it would be super convenient. What.

O

What is it as opposed to like.

O

D

If we could call it in code, like sometimes in code and decode, it's not clear which one to switch but.

O

D

D

I in general, I find it's not super clear. What encode or decode is like which direction is which it's like. With the you know, we have some api's that say in and out and depending on the on your perspective in this writer or a reader.

O

T

Wouldn't we address this Christoph with the source destination naming for the arguments like in code to utf-8 and that's you know: read-only span, bytes source and a standby destination, and then it's just the name of the method, because.

Y

If you type base64 that you don't get seen.

D

The parameters.

T

Why do you need to see the parameters of that point? It's like you. Only care.

Y

About which parameters go where, when you know it's about like basics,.

D

Before that, I now see a list of api's, which one do you do I choose to convert my byte array to string.

O

Are you saying that normally.

AB

D

Know it's normally, but some people do in general, it's better to design api's that work well with intelligence unless they're series on that one.

T

Because I guess I'm confused is the concern that we're gonna add additional methods to this class that we'll be using something other than bytes.

D

No, so we all know discussing like should the methods, because you know in County code I was just saying: I found it sometimes confusing which direction is encode and decode. Well,.

O

It sounds like you could. You could actually make a good argument for maybe if your support is, you have 16 in the future, then you have.

O

So that the bytes.

D

Yeah, whether it's span of chartres, founded by anyway.

M

D

Feel super strongly about this. I was just saying like we used to have it. As you know, decoding code and decoding code doesn't, like always I know that people use these names, but it's not as crisp which direction is, but.

O

What they use for basically.

O

You have to kind.

D

Of know a bit more, these ideas are like if I have a byte array of bytes to utf-8 I.

A

Don't know I think, logically, in generally, when you say encode and decode, you expected to be encode ins into whatever. That format is, which means, if I say encode for basics before expect to get a basic support string back, because that's the total building code and that context means. But if I say m for encoding, I expect to get an impact back right, I don't get expensive normal I, see you falling back, I mean that's I, think jelly ho ho and Cody cook and I mean different name.

A

There's also fine, but I think that it's a bit weird that.

A

It's a bit weird to have set like causing an important t48, guys I mean I'll put it in it. You know system buffers not taxed in it and it seemed like missing like the verb of the activity. At this point, and it's like I mean biting it's not really a same light or.

O

If you hold this pattern, what happens if you have a transform in the future that is utf-8 utf-8 or vice bites like at that point, you would need.

O

F

For the names will have to be it's app for those scenarios, they don't have to.

O

D

So I think we, for example, we have some idea is that it was even less clear which direction it goes. As I said, I don't have a very strong opinion on this. If people don't like the naming pattern, I I don't care too much. I.

T

Think I think whether it's, instead of or in addition to I, think we need any.

D

So basically, so, let's, let's, let's do a kind of a prototype in mechanic's like copy and paste. This whole type I mean the members and just rename.

D

Them to use the in cortical terminology.

D

So the first one would be called in code to utf-8.

D

Now that the int property I mean the intima total Islam.

H

W

U

We just type it.

N

M

D

So if we had, if we add utf-16, what would this method be called.

H

O

Mean I still don't I still conversation.

O

D

Doesn't change that this method.

O

Was it? What is it? It would be the same. You.

P

O

O

D

There, if the it is no, it's.

O

D

But so it for utf-8 it would be number of coding units for yourself. Then it's not the same.

D

Because some coding units in utf-8 53, if you need some code points, are pre calling you the.

AB

A

Stream name for both utf-8 utf-16 is the same. Is.

I

The same neck motor functional goodbye- it's me for forever transpose.

D

This this is kind of interesting as well, because so I have utf-8 string.

D

If it is not asking, the decode method will fail cause, it will do validation, correct, but this method of this one would return kind of a wrong result. Well, you know I mean.

O

You could give it a string. All spider faces right at this. One storage.

D

Eight, an output buffer called the decode method and it could run out of space before it hits the.

D

Resonator, it's like this thing is not able to validate hello the contract. The contract of these methods together is the following. If I compute the length and then I call Depot with an output buffer that is equal or larger than the length that was computed.

D

Will never fail with output buffer too small right. There is not the case if you, if I, if I pass an invalid utf-8 button, others.

O

Stood upon a over to smaller over here with ml arrow.

D

It may fail with too small how.

D

If the probably won't I was thinking that basically it could run out of data before it hit hits an embed invalid code points, but that's probably not the case. Maybe it's fine I.

A

Go in the legs for a second, how we have to work the method name for the other three days, because I would say that looks pretty good to me.

D

C

Atoms through in such as jump rename the class to base64 encoding and then have to utf-8 and from utf-8 adults.

A

I have to say I kind of prefer that, because it it names what the thing does the reverse today, this one is not too bad because ECF, encode and decode as the primary operations, and it gives you a vocabulary, but the other one was. Actually. You have a bunch of methods, and there is nothing you can say across the salt type that will allow you to like four things or giving you a sort of like keyboard based vocabulary. But now we have a district here is encode and decode. Is we actually make this?

A

The basics, appoint, coder and then I think is even better because I.

D

Don't like it so I have to say: I, don't like it! Why? Because in both encodes and decodes, and then we remove the encode and decode from the method names and we are back to the original problem that people I.

O

D

O

Are going if you hold encoding instead of encoder you're, going into the encoding and from you he.

R

Suggests an encoding of the editor makes it forever. Okay,.

D

I see, okay, that one is a bit a bit better than.

A

What I like about this is also that it kind of that gives a convention across all time in it again. Basically becomes you know whatever you want.

D

AC

Except we do that for our in corners, they could get paid importing. We already have those so.

O

The convention would be whenever you're doing any coding it's to whenever your tea protocol stop.

A

This way right how.

M

A

There are some.

H

A

Like very happy so that we would have utf-8 encoding.

H

Succeeding program, records and they're not the same hi, it's logically because they not operate over stands but.

A

I think that is something that we just have to think about in general, because it's kind of a can have two concepts. Coding coding with very different API shapes I mean that something ages, I, don't know how you would call this thing like. If you don't call it, we said to call it something. Just because you don't name the API I mean there's no name for the console.

D

All right, so we have two alternatives: I have to say I'm, okay, with either of them. Now that we initially I I thought that we've been proposed to call it in code area, but encoding is fine. There are pros and cons on both.

M

Second, it's better because you don't need to decide which is important, which is decoding because decoding is from more complex to kinda raw format. But how do you know which one is raw I mean more raw? Did you just come to the room cific? It is cancer.

Z

Video magnet, decode and encode is confusing.

M

Yes and the second soldiers, drooling from I'll kind of like more explicit, is importing. It is encapsulate the the format it doesn't tell you, which way is encoding or decoding all the desert went from it's not encoding or decoding is just transformed, so.

D

Did you did you see the original APs yeah they cook, they don't talk about and I was talking. That's why I asked I was.

M

Very you know when I came, it was already encoding decoding no.

D

No, no, the original one doesn't even use the word decode in year, old I was saying that I kind of sometimes find it confusing, which one they switch direction, but we are not designed ApS for me. So what's the also trouble the degree TFN coding and adjusting concepts and stuff.

AB

So the existing.

A

Classes that we have thanks to debated coding, utf-16 coding there forever well, there sits, should be one right so forever. I think they they are, there's an abstract type, calling coding. Then there's derive types right, and so that's a completely.

P

Different, what this is.

A

Messy and they work one byte, arrays and strings is what works on awkward span. They.

Q

Can change are going to make them more vessels, fans and others too well.

A

That doesn't change the fact that the API shape open an operator, maybe Center up now, but I can still have different technologies. So should we just call it maybe transform.

D

Also, we have a hierarchy of the encoding like there's a base, encoding type atom, base64, encoding kind of implies that it inherits from the coding base line. It's just a 64th transforms like yeah. We had some suffix or no, you know like it doesn't add value. This is actually why I called the basics before without any suffix, because everything else after.

A

All exist is the thing this is. We select.

D

For example, like we will eventually have this type.

A

Of API, for you see right, you turn 16 yeah.

D

You mean for transcoding between encoding steps: encodings, yes, mm-hmm.

A

K

All you call the whole.

A

Utf-8 but the type is now called utf-8. You know if utf-8, utf-16 and base64 what you call the group of these types o named steps exactly there's the thing. Maybe you just try harder to avoid different encoding. So let's call it something else: I'm just making up well.

D

Stasis and operations so date; okay, so they you know they return operation styles. Maybe they are operations. Sorry base64 operations, even.

Q

When you bring up the existing basics for message, I think there are no convert existing like this ones. I am.

A

O

Here edits, it's a system were taught to base64 string and from basically four trainers, also Charles.

P

A

Operations is like it's like the method, gooble enough utilities or usuals, we're like if I couldn't.

N

Number with your.

A

Name, that's why coin well, the same with transformation right! That's why I I well, I mean transformation. I think is slightly better because you already have this whole operations that it's okay, great but I, used to call it transform standards or.

H

A

Real question: yes, oh, oh actually, oh well, we have two of the other nations naughty, better I, think if we call it transform and they have transformation status, I mean that okay, it could become.

D

Transformation status, it was renamed because it was used in IP is that were enjoy transform, like cope from one part to another yeah, which.

J

C

Operations that is like tons of eregion it.

A

Should be but it's out, but it's.

C

You know for me that type the operations that does not come from surplus is not all tied to just the Transformers.

A

True, but like once, you have a name called I, don't know transforms it kind of makes sense that we're on those methods when you to transformation status, it seems logical if you also reused information kind of somewhere else, I think it's not too bad or.

C

You can think about transformer transform as like specific operation or your subtype of operations, some kind subgroup, whatever.

G

A

Momentum corporation is that everything's operation right like that, makes the technology like super generic. It's.

D

Like what is it goes, this time is super super generic thing. Is it? Yes, this type is returned from an interface method that is called like you know. We don't have it yet. This far as I know right here, but we will so just.

O

But really this is yeah, you have a source buffer and you have a destination buffer in some kind of showing this movie to its attention. No.

A

I really think that's at the bottom I think this very good I think we need to name their concept. I really think we do again someone you want to buy talks about this and say how do you do this thing? They are monitor operations. Okay, Buffalo seems.

E

A

E

Here but then it's a bit long yeah, but.

A

Basically, form of operations like a longhand but I never be.

D

Fine, that's pretty fun I'm saying the concept is called butter operations. We don't have to like.

A

Wheat, instead of saying it's perfectly relevant world, you have a concept, that's sure that is amenable to be combined of other names like base64 I did that's the I think the thing I'm asking for it's like give it give the concept a name ideally make it somewhat short, and then we can have documentation on that.

AB

A

AB

Things up a ton plus it's hot.

D

Jesus, how did you jump to that? I lived through the PowerShell is great I. Think of.

N

Parental, it is a gue, unique your own syntax. Do.

A

You think I'm making it too complicated because I think that that that actually helps, if you lay into what is it, do they work Janek? Do you think I'm making it complicated because I think honestly, in a many other things, fall.

D

In place, if we give the concept today, yeah, except that I, don't know what the name would be, except for of battery operations and this what.

M

What else is expected.

S

By 64 convertor.

C

Actual I, like that more.

S

Than transform, but now what depending you are, are escaping if.

C

I won like the commercial stutters, physically translation.

S

Converter and get.

C

Some brownie suffice compression, even though not sure if conversion, if the operations in general are more kind of.

X

Conversions then,.

C

They kind of are.

X

W

Believe I won. We had a sister, you.

A

All the same, every this is transformation. I come up with the tour I already did if your reservations and then this type is.

D

Called basics of about operation geez, that's a very name long them over time. You gave.

AC

Me the long game, so it's all new at base 64 over antlers. Why do we need to add the suffix yeah exactly if you think this is a site and makes it just a day for no reason so the reason why I.

A

Think it's important is like.

AC

A

You're you're doing this feature now for like six months, so I don't count anymore, but.

AC

Like anybody else outside.

A

Of this realm and someone you want to tell them how to use the api's. So what kind of things do you give them so they're successful? So, for example, if you point them to an MSDN article that says, here's how to do buff operations right, if you give this whole thing a name, and you have types that reflect that name, people can find stuff. They can learn a technology like that.

A

That makes sense as soon as you have like you know, basically an undefined feature set in that sense, where all the names of generic they will blend in with all the existing tech tip you have. So when you draw the boundary between old that heals, the byte arrays.

AC

And doesn't do that on the efficient stuff versus? What do you call the efficient stuff, so I mean you can give the customer name, but why does the API shape or do I have to have that suffix you'll be.

A

There, with watermelon api's, how do I find out which concept is API, is a using that good enough like how would I search for that like the namespace is a very system, buffers defects, then you say what buffers in base64 and I would likely to hit this thing in.

D

Those system buffers that X will.

O

You doing it, you don't really need to have a look at the type aside from this return. Value from use a be honest and I would imagine many people just write. The program sequels well made.

I

The type aesthetic might see never used the type anyway, no.

A

I

Oh, did you know all.

A

They wanna guess err.

M

To me, the Claus doesn't look like it's an operation. The operations are methods, the class represents the format right seriously, base64 format or basics it for encoding or I mean it's a thing. This kima.

M

Today's lost like okay, so what is you I'm just saying it's not a transform its collection of things related to a base64 format or encoding, or what I mean is it should be the closet format not know I.

Z

Think those two are for modest I mean format. It would also work in the same way that.

H

M

I'm not proposing what specifically format or encoding I'm. Just saying this is the name of the class represents the format like thing. The.

O

Forbidding though you tend to use to represent, are taking some kind of data legend editor and presented in a human, readable fashion, right yeah,.

M

I'm saying specifically for Python recording I'm just saying that operations being inside, but the container represents the schema even.

AC

Can we address the open question, come back to this one I may be offline or art with that, so let's I'm saying I would suggest you come up with a.

A

D

That doesn't add anything, then that's also fine.

D

So for now, okay, if we don't come up with a better name, can we agree on one of the alternatives that we've had concrete or.

P

I like the first one, but like the go.

D

Back to your email to your like tool, oh yeah, this little like with your encoding I like the top one.

O

So, basics, before it's a static classes, well.

D

Because encoding so I'm, also okay with base64 encoding, it does come to negative that some people may think that it's encouraged from the base encoding type would.

O

You ever consider other.

AB

Six, the utf-16 transformations yeah I mean.

O

AB

Are not really transforming Oh.

K

D

Not yet bytes lenses.

M

D

My journals I like I, don't like the transform subjects, I have to say because it just doesn't add any more value. In my opinion, it's like operation transform any generic word that says nothing. Whereas operations, that is the very space one force, I, think.

J

O

So I'm going to no argue I, don't think we've operations have small, so.

C

Right, if frozen,.

Z

Q

A

A

Can we go the list over Legos? You talk about Operation Thetis at some point No. So.

D

Let's, let's get.

O

Levi about the operation cells, so I wanted a trustee in place in u.s.. First, because I, don't think operations has made. Senses returned enum, promos api's, because if the in place really open can be done in one shot, it doesn't really make sense to do it any other way and as a result and the reason that I say that is because you're generally going to be expanding or contracting the buffer, which means that, if you, if you right now with data, basically there are some lights and the other number that you have an encoded.

O

Well, you've now overwritten up with the output, so that data is now perfectly lost in power. He can never hold nothing in so needs. More data is kind of a medium. A status as far as it plays encoding knows now. Also consider needs more room well again, if, if you're doing an operation within a single buffer- but you really do need to check ahead of time to the buffer- is large enough to contain the entire result, because again, there's no way for the color to restart any heavenly procedure.

O

So at that point you actually just have to fail if the destination isn't again to do it at that point. You've now removed needs more data and alpha bumper to stall, which means the only thing you're left with our success in mail.

D

And so, when you're talking about just the in place that in place so see it's possible, can we delay if we talk about that its final block with whether it's needed.

AB

At all, it is just from the point of view that say say.

O

That you're calling this in a loop and you're reading data from from a network of ur, and you get a 55 bytes of data from your from your incoming network stream, like that's, not evenly divisible by 3 in stock. So how do you like? Are you supposed to add padding to that? Or are you supposed to return back to the colony for data? No, so.

D

You call the API and it will basically tell you, it has a.

D

Leftover oil or it's missing: oh, it's missing some bytes good yeah.

O

But that we need all data say like there's. No more data after this I want you to apply that.

D

Let me let you think, because we talked about some encodings so for some encodings I understand this ambiguity, like basically.

O

D

O

P

O

Understand why.

D

We would need this prop with this parameter for these methods. For the you know, classic base64.

AC

Encoding I thought so: okay, so.

D

Level one big Uwe T: let's.

AC

Say you have in that I buffer is a multiple three okay! Yes, but you said it one byte at a time. Every time you send one byte is not pad with eco signs, because you didn't tell me this, not the final block.

AC

How do I know that this is not the final block and I shouldn't add and only pad at the very end.

AC

Because you don't give me a multiple three or pad regardless assuming a small block, so you need to somehow.

O

Kind of in that it basically breaks it when you're going over. If you don't tell me trash right.

D

I, even if is not in a look, we're just partial. Basically, you need to tell it so it can add padding that is basic.

R

Positive, why isn't it call a panic them? So that is part one.

O

You can call another people. The idea is, if you have, if you have a generic transform, API said with this word interface, you would probably want to call it this final part just because you don't know what it's going to do with that information may be able at having nav opposed, but it's another person. Importantly.

V

D

Need to understand the format specification to understand what edit poly units here. It's like this is the last time I believe this API do whatever you want with this information, but.

AB

O

Point is well know if this, if this were just a 64, my solution and having true/false make sense, and maybe it makes sense to rename it on the static class in the concept of the interface. It just needs to be able to do.

R

We have a generic interface for talking about for these, but they are not yeah. It's a buffer operations with thoughts from our execute method, another semi signature. We have, this concept of you know, find out.

D

Blocking some other api's provide.

O

D

Sister taxon predictor houses and.

O

Crio transformer the assistant.

A

What is so if I say it's final book Falls and I hit the case that you just described: what does operations that needs more data? Yes,.

A

Am I only concerned that I guess I have and I don't know how to solve it? It's like this whole idea of. Like you know, if you happen to be in cou boundaries, you can return the bytearray to the caller and everything is fine. You only get the case when you end up in the you know. I still need one stuff, but I guess. If.

H

That means the.

A

Caller does it incorrectly, it doesn't return Raiders or in all cases, which you know.

E

The caller should never return that array, because you basically to try to pop.

E

D

So awesome now, let's go back to I understand why we need this final.

P

D

Why did we return? Operation starts from the in place ah because I'm pretty sure that they used to be like not return. You.

D

Was it just for consistency, I believe so yeah.

D

Yeah that one we should.

Q

W

Q

D

Or two different, which is what this book is about? Mother now, when the operation status was recommended by this committee, when we reviewed it first and we.

E

Got a lot of words.

Q

About the committee.

D

Has a very high bar for reversing its recommendation.

G

O

That's also maybe.

G

W

D

Just as a reminder, so people who basically, we had ideas that didn't have this operation starters. If you don't have the operation status, you need to do some checks on the things being returned to know what.

O

I tell my artwork, I guess my argument was: if your holiness enemy, then you.

D

Need to be really fascinating. Well, let me so. Basically, we showed to the to this API review committee, the loop that people need to write and all the checks and everybody in the room said what the heck is this. This is too complicated. Can we just return an enum that tells you exactly like what is the state.

A

Of the operation, what he's saying is that in place it guys, you cannot call the loop anyway, no.

O

Now we have this casting call in the loop they're going to have to do the exact same actions, regardless of what the enum value is so I. Have your actions will always be incremental, read up or incremental ripe upper expandable right buffer cannot to go to the top. In all cases,.

D

Yeah, we would need to see the code sample detection.

P

Is simple super food just.

H

Because I'm essentially.

P

H

A

Yeah grew press. The last time look at the at the generic it was like doing. The check seems like ah if you didn't write a comment above the check. It's not easy to tell by the check.

Q

Was it I thought this dish even was born more out of the fact that we were calling his method to try and and we could actually convey which no.

D

It was exactly because it it's an enum, because now it returns information about the things that otherwise you would have to compute from the returned ends like this. If we ate at boo right Monaco, try yeah, it was try. So this is one condition, and then you had to like look at the ends and see whether this input buffer length is the same as the you know, number of consumes bytes. Then it means that it consumed everything.

D

You also need to look at the output buffer and the integer returned to know whether you ran out of space, and sometimes maybe you didn't run out of space. It was exactly the output buffer was the right size and so.

O

This is assuming integers, which losses and copy basically reading data from one shrink during the transform. In writing the way you enchant with immigrant go to my 56 like that's it.

O

If there was an error during transform just mail, otherwise bump the pointers on the slices and then come back for talking and the loop terminates. When there's no more data to be read,.

A

Yeah, that's not what it would look like.

AC

We also had to handle and see the other court in the professor before for professor, if you like,.

AB

I mean I'm using string, so you can imagine let's.

D

O

We don't have the other gun the.

D

Ibm well, but it uses daenam. We had the total. We don't have the code that was using the ins anymore, yeah yeah I'm, saying compared to.

AC

What square is in by has in source.

D

I only know the path source system, buffers experimental system.

D

Offers buffer expansions method is called pipe. The first one.

H

I'd say here: it is.

H

Let's say: I go to scoop.

AB

Goto is a great underused, so then I mean this. Another is tacking.

O

The enum value, but I, don't think it's required, because what you could have done is before would call a transformation without execute, like query: how much output and query the size of the output buffer that we need, because we have api's to get the size and then just make sure that your output has that available and I call transform, execute. And if it's not enough, just go to properly. But.

D

If there's not enough available in doubt, put butter just say, you're.

O

D

Of the number use we still call in your code code, sample you're still call the method. Even if the output buffer is too small, correct right.

O

And what it what it returns is not error, but it returns not finish and then it jumps on top also.

D

But you can still compute, where do you compute Dylan tell Google, sighs, I.

O

Don't compute the upper science because I'm ready to.

AB

String, oh there.

O

You how to PI Alpert's.

AB

Then logical or something but then you said, if you compute sometimes it would be.

D

Basically, writing through the butter twice first.

O

Necessarily because way, a lot of the methods that were exposing are like give me the worst case outfit size, and you could make sure that you kind of output buffer of that size ad captain like eight years, but.

D

Then then, then there may be about where the output length told you that you don't have enough space, but in fact you have enough space where this push is fine.

AB

Because what you use you.

O

You try making sure that you have the worst possible case of the upper cover. Maybe, like you request 43k in eighty, it says no I'm just going to give you my 20k and then you call transform and some number of elements are converted. Maybe all the may, not if not all of them, convoluted sorry well,.

D

So you've done today lie on their expected length, correct completely.

O

This company show you an optimization, that's on end.

AC

We can be again pinning this discussion because it is medicine pool or uh you know that could be separate, but when we push on the other questions ahead well,.

A

I mean cam and it seemed fun. Take decisions I'm, not really nervous, because, let me just end up with, like you know, we do the same loop you just described. He goes to the back to the top of the list and then three weeks ago, they're in the same discussion again I need to close the lease in a few things or at least give you a homework that is years secretive.

A

I see just keep hunting decision, so the two things that I think we be happy, if you had said is one of them is hold.

E

On I'll go.

A

Stick it there we go so. The other thing is that we said there is the the general shape of the EP is, like you know, in culver city code seemed like we settled on that. Then there was the discussion on. Do we even at all for the in place, things should be in place differently. There's the third one, which is even if it's not in place like what does EBI shrimp look like, and it seems like there is this opinion in the room, maybe that we don't need to in them at all.

A

We can just simplify the patterns with the pointing people, know what to do, which seems fine, but then I think what I would like to see is you know the extracted code for the general pattern, not just a specific example where you know that the outfit sizes change like that, but it's actually. This is the. This is like the copy and paste review, except you have everybody to ride, and well the only people.

O

Who would be using these api's would be people doing like typing operations, I think the Victoria colors, which of subscribers to be won't, show, but.

P

O

Some in the buffer as a single operation by everything to the output buffer, if you can't do it well,.

A

That's fair, but it doesn't take away that you wouldn't have to write the loop that.

D

They have to do it right.

A

We need to basically.

D

Look at your code sample so I have to say, like I was looking at the code and like I, think maybe offline as on you poke holes in the cold area. I got them yesterday. Yes,.

P

D

You convince that it works well, then we don't need to operation status, correct and it's fine that we would reverse the decision right. This committee I think we are all in agreement that the in place operations. The operation styles, is not even correct. Yes, that what I think we are in.

M

Familial method, return sort of data, including operations data, but can you compute operations from other things, method returns you can. If you can then way your your theory.

D

Or the computation was like, but then the origination proved about you and.

M

Then you are introducing possibility that one doesn't match another which one I trust well,.

D

But that's the implementer of the API. You know made a mistake yeah, which is like it's much more probable that the colors would make a mistake and the implementer.

O

Say if you did want the concept of operation says you can't always get it before the dull features from the others good. So the caller could see if the conversion was incomplete by looking at my sister device written, but he doesn't know conversion using leaks because he ran out yet the data or happened yeah. This.

M

Is what I think like the only thing you cannot compute is whether there is no more data right.

O

But I was arguing I, don't that's important to you. Also your hand. Pieces anyway, is part of the natural.

M

But or they are saying, the method must returns something, but it must be a bull bull.

Z

Would mean, but what is Lamar.

O

Data rule is I, didn't encounter in her. So true is some data was converting. All KD, 0 and pulse is there's bad data during the modern times. So.

Z

False means, don't call me again: yeah a pulse is.

O

No more data, it's also no more data is true. Output, too small is true. You gave me a D, poppers and I. Couldn't do anything is true and I finished. Everything is the only thinner, it's fall yeah so.

M

You may need to terminate even true because.

I

But the union units.

O

In the outer loop has to end your loop, who end of you run out of days because you're reading input data from some read-only buddies from interest rate from something when you're out of data, that if you terminate your loop, because you have nothing left to do and then you follow into another loop, Richards I might have a buffer of remaining bytes. Let me pop that, through the trans lock, so that you transform at that point, never return true without so.

Z

You know that the earth of data by some other external means- yes, because you your sources, I, don't you the corner? Member, because the.

A

Color is expected to essentially have a loop that it shuffled data into a buffer and then pasta to this way. So when you are out of data to put into buffers.

I

Then you close done, and you can also optimize for saying: okay, it's so keeping.

O

My own staff, our buffer I'm, just going to take the Ross, but you can be very soft.

K

A

And then the option may have is like maybe overthinking, and maybe we can just say instead of having you know, to return arguments like fights written bytes met, we can formalize this into a single struck. That has two, ladies, who just can't Curie properties of this guy. That says, am I done yet because it really only the only thing you have to do is compare these relative to each other, usually compared with you input science to know what.

D

To do, and but the ins are not used just to know whether you've done they are used for then advancing spans and some other things and.

O

Yeah I think you brought up a good point earlier, which is it's really weird or colors or whatever to see if your operations like, if the color cares about the difference between mission.

A

Let's see if we actually look at codons, okay, with the last time I saw it looks like you know, this is less than or equal to this one and this is bigger or that that one is that it seems like these are things that you can easily get wrong like? Oh, it's repeat, that's them, but it's like that's, not equal to or something and then I think that was the conclusion as well. Instead, given that stuff operation, you kind of want to make it not.

D

Very error-prone, so I propose that basically asan goes offline and kind of analyzes, both of the code, samples and sense. Something saying you know either there's a bug in Levi's code or maybe doesn't give you enough information for some scenarios that he didn't. You know consider and we should also either I've.

O

Sampled Elsa take read-only bytes right to an eye out, put it to make sure. That's there all right.

D

All right, so what is the other? Should we.

AC

Now start going through the other yeah so well, the questions was that our import length only takes an int which gives you somewhat of an upper bound by a few bytes. Potentially, if we have a specific implementation that looks at the inputs, man as well, we could get the exact precise why, with phase 64 and pausing, so it yeah. If you always take a look at the example, pretty that's encoded that has there. If you give the input, which is necessary, noises compute from base64 encoding, no, no! No!

AC

This is bytes to you, T of it. This isn't good. The example code shows encode, okay, so so it's seven characters. Seven values right: I put ABC to square one in return in return, eight, if you are file box false, otherwise it will return. Twelve and I kind of limitation returns twelve regard because it doesn't have that pool as far as block. Why would it do eight? What happens with the G? Since there are file block? You expect more to come so you're, not including the padding in decides that would have been excluded.

O

From the bytes consumed count having transformed so over sense, if you just never goes well.

D

Okay, so there's also there's something that we need to talk about like I. Imagine that the method to compute the length you would not call it with the next block that should be counting. You would call it with like when you have all the data, and you call it without the look like honestly when you call it in the rope. Like you know, feeding the next block I would never call this man. You.

AB

O

Well, actually, this would serviceable optimization here. I'll put this margin to contain the expected elephant, but.

D

Why would I do this? I would just transcode I mean it encode or decode as much as it can and keep going so that you could do that? This will just mean.

O

Opposition, what will it optimize it? You could allocate. It say that your output buffer is currently 1k, but this method is telling you like I'm, really going to give you a key. If you give me this much input data, you could ahead of time make sure that you have an aka out. The number that way transforms us a little bit more efficient. You can get away the number times the loop.

AB

Iterates, it's just. It works 8k of by its twice.

D

Memory this one pocket place. It will because know it takes occasions or easily take when reading it in further enhance sorry.

A

AB

A

But then why would you give them the hood or if you only eat a science right like you answer, does not depend on the action.

D

Yeah, if we for those that can compute the length without hurting the data, it's okay.

A

I would say like yeah if you have to literally parse the input to give the answer like the API is pointless at that point. You just might as well just have a fork, a butter and go as fast as you can.

A

Anything is like, if you only take in the end I'm sure whether this final block is super useful because, as Levi said, it makes more sense immediately. I get to the worst case answer, so you soon panic yeah, like worst case your buffer, is divided.

AB

Up quality homes good, perhaps rather than get out.

AC

Okay, so question three relate to this: if you only have the one we del have it this Bible, do we need to change the name to indicate there's actually a per pound, not that Joe I get mad. Get me a class, or so we talked about this at the previous.

D

Review I suggested it I think it makes sense it get max counter from here, because I was afraid that like if we, if we in some of these IP, is we kind of get lucky a link and ethics are, you know, give people exact numbers in some other AP is, we won't be able to give them exact numbers and then, if there will be confusion, so this should be. This is the upper bound? Yes,.

A

Right, given compression, you can usually come up with an upper bound right, but you very expensive to come up with the actual number it's like well. I have to run the other.

AC

Yeah and that'll be the country example to not having it well.

D

But then for compression you will just have have a method like this and too bad. You cannot optimize it, but you said yeah but compression.

AB

Stapling or so I'm at also and.

D

AB

D

Problems than that it's stateful, and it also has to have like very large profits window step like doesn't work super well for this contiguous blocks.

AC

So what would name do you propose for that then I think that's getting trolled on three, but.

AC

D

Them like yeah so go back. Emo to your proposal of the current IP is because we renamed many. We should do it either. Yeah here.

AC

Get max decoded my name prefix it with paths.

A

And it's a bit out of this one, because it's digital in it. We know exactly.

AC

What it is, but it's specific to very 64 I, think that it's real, we don't. We don't know right whether it's bad or not, effects. Well you soon. This is the entire input you.

A

Know for it for for a fact, if you could talk about individual buffers, then yes, it's that's true! Oh.

Z

You call this just length or.

D

M

D

O

It's going to be, if you have a youtube history.

O

D

To length on the other one and this one is you because it's like original life but fine, because it's like nobody decoded it, because it was never in.

A

The other thing is, you could call this input and output right or we.

D

Would just have some well, it's.

A

Almost like you.

D

Know because this is just a count of bytes, maybe we should just call it by length yeah.

E

D

E

Was one day but.

A

It was wearing it and I, just like symmetry.

O

Anyway, so, but we disappear because it only have a span of might and you have stand by topic right because.

D

Just to like funny, because the length of byte is 8.

O

Because size of bite, size.

A

All right, sir, then this is my conclusion for this.

AC

One you are chained in place to booth right the return type of into this metal yeah.

T

I'm sorry I missed it, but did we revisit the decision of whether this type, whatever we kind of lost you? Can, you repeat sorry I was wondering if I may have missed it, but to be revisit the decision of whether this class would ever potentially have anything besides utf-8 on it, because if it would that max decoded bytes thing could be ambiguous right.

D

Levi was arguing that it's not, but yes, I'm with you that I mean we would need to verify that. Yes,.

O

I because I was saying, if you're, deep coding, I'm sorry if you're, if you're encoding into a utf-16 strain you're, probably not using satified. Probably and the number of elements in the stand will be yeah.

T

Except if you're reading it off the network, you know something you're decoding you're reading it off the network or whatever you're gonna be reading. Bytes, yes, but it's going to be represented, as you see a fade on youtube, 16.

O

It says who says anybody who's ever tried writing utf-16 on the network, because.

O

T

Assuming that applications.

Y

Won't be doing something, and I'm saying how can we assume that it doesn't have to be network, it can be reading from it. Somebody can be reading from file stream, so.

D

And it's at utf-16, Island Discs I mean it can happen. It sure.

AB

It could happen, but.

O

O

M

O

M

This five lights.

T

What what do you know be my even even if what you're saying is true that get max decoded bytes length, you would still presumably be passing in the number of chars that you're decoding yes, and if someone is like.

O

In both cases, yes, no ambiguous, it's not ambiguous! It's if you're, if you have, if you have input as utf-8, you passing the counter. You see a facebooking us. If you have input as utf-16, you pass in the count of duty of 16x and in both cases it's.

I

An interferometer, oh yeah, but the numbers are identical.

F

I

The room by other people won't ever get in. We can just email me you're.

D

Also like, if we can come up with a nice name that includes utf-8, it would just be safer. I think we had problems that you know it doesn't roll off the tongue. Quite if you had utf-8 to this name, but maybe if we can come up with something is just we make it. You know explicit and edits, future-proof all.

E

Right sounds good. Thank you. Thank you.