.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 24 Oct 2017

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From YouTube: .NET Design Reviews: GitHub Triage

Description

00:-39:-32 - Needs Work: Add Microseconds and Nanoseconds to TimeStamp, DateTime, and DateTimeOffset https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24555#issuecomment-339062792
00:01:06 - Approved: SocketTaskExtensions as instance methods https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24442#issuecomment-339063781
00:05:25 - Rejected: Add Array.Sort(T)(T[], int, int, Comparison(T)) overload https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24115#issuecomment-339064985
00:09:31 - Approved: Make BigInteger BigEndian-friendly https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24575#issuecomment-339072735
00:35:28 - Approved: Add SpanExtensions.EndsWith https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24840#issuecomment-339074798
00:42:33 - Approved: Add SpanExtensions.LastIndexOf https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24839#issuecomment-339076860
00:49:11 - Approved: UTF8 Parsing and Formatting https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24607#issuecomment-339086989
01:26:41 - Approved: Add Base64 conversion APIs that support UTF-8 for Span(T) https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/24568#issuecomment-339096554

A

All right, obviously, Knox may have ahead of microphone Beckett what you have microphone. Well, usually, when you go live, we start hearing ourselves fifteen seconds back in time, always.

B

Lied, you did the audio, that's not so all.

C

Right, so what order should I go through Carol you're, the issue, so I would finish. First, this thingy two four four, four two we discussed it last time there was some open question, I'm, not sure if it's closed for.

D

E

F

D

There is a room plugin you could install it, which does that or is that rocket ship.

D

Always be always thing should break it up.

D

Superfluous, you know was working yell. It.

D

We should be.

G

D

Think this one was the control like the controversial. It said the dictate the design point here was you know, should we keep the extension class or should we move the extension methods, logically to the to the socket class and then effectively hire the socket? Ask extensions?

D

Well we're getting a guy's trip, it seems bad. Is there any failure in thanks to the extension type from the accession of instance type and then human said it's desirable and then Stephen Mason just said? Well, if they're in the same assembly you you can do whatever you want anyway, because you basically have in terms internal access to the other type and today these times already instance, methods on the time. So whatever you can do anyway, just like the extension class-based, just calls it.

D

So what did the purposes on implementation side? They are exactly the same like they there's no benefit to be had I. Think the to me, the more compelling argument would be if you want to expose it to the user, for example, making them virtual and in order to derive from socket or something that I think. That would make sense. But, given that we don't have to do that today, I'm almost inclined to say that should even on the extension type and you get in the best of both worlds. I thought we'd.

H

D

Steve anything to add or did I lose you again.

I

No here I thought I think that I'm fine with either options, so it's certainly easier to just stick. What we currently have is.

A

A socket, sealed or unsealed is.

I

Ms, the question.

A

I, don't think it's sealed.

I

This big slow, email.

J

No, it's Jeremy, it's not sealed so there, so the value in moving them to instance, would be that we can make them virtual when a derived type could replace the.

A

Behavior I have.

I

A

Thing else is anything on socket.

I

Virtual other than just no the only thing I think that's virtual was disposed yeah.

J

I

A

In that case, we may as well pretend it the sealed, leave things on the exceptions, class.

I

It's the only benefit and I. Don't think this is compelling enough is but I need experience perspective, but I'll show up as extensions rather than as instance, methods but I. Don't know if that's meaningful.

I

It may be from a help, documentation perspective.

K

D

Documentation I can kind of see because documentation extension methods are not ideal, but at the same time I don't I mean yeah I, don't think it's substantial.

D

I

Before there's one more, we previously talked about that I'd like to revisit briefly. If we could yep, you show me the list again: the head yep, two four one, one: five.

I

So this seemed like a slam dunk, adding a sort overload that took a comparison and, instead of just taking you know, B I compare unfortunately, as Mike DN pointed out later on this thread and as I get when I try to actually do it. Null is a valid value for the compare. It just ends up using the default, which leads to an ambiguity. If we add this overload, so I think that kills it, but I wanted to check.

L

We've had only non nullable types.

I

Or acknowledged, if we approve.

A

I

Like a lot of things, where we throw if it's no, we could still argue that it was. You know it wouldn't be valid in real code so because it would have been thrown in production. So we could add it. But given that it's valid well.

L

But what I'm saying is: if we had not known liberal types, we could at least make the new compare or comparison over load, not knowable, oh sure, right, another one would just you know if, if somebody passes no, it's clear that it's the overload that takes yeah the.

I

Other thing would be: if we had, you know the ability to specify if there the language lot is to provide priorities. You know for overall and resolution, but there's nothing.

M

I

N

I

Add the feature, but just read: jiggering the parameter yeah or we could add you know. Instead of sorting an array, we could sort an array segment or something, but maybe, if assuming we're, adding sort overloads to span, maybe we just take care of it there and drop this.

I

When you're adding this fan right.

E

Sorry we are adding like a sort extensions for spam. Oh that would be so far away. I should not issue I.

D

Think last time we talked about in the consumption ID and his pasados, mostly.

L

D

Nobody wants to sort that, but well nobody wants to sort spans. Well, last time I asked for that function. Somebody I think it was. You would say like that. Never came up so.

D

Some machine, or it's like next my videos and, like one chris, says all the clients or me in that case yeah that's unfortunate.

O

Yeah I guess then the answer is no I. Think so.

A

Hopefully, when we had sorting two-span, we had both options at the same time, so that we avoid being able to use.

D

C

Right so question from the audience would extension reviews for those fancy, names, full names and he in that stuff, yeah.

D

That's basically it some some extension that our open source programs office Road, that's basically a chromatic, so just provide see. Is it or just.

C

I, don't think it.

D

Is because I think you have to have permissions for the be part of the I want that too, but I didn't I search in their website. I can't find it I think.

G

It's one of those things that hidden.

D

Kinda have to like get magically. Oh so.

C

We have almost all spam so before we spend with the span. Let's do one more, which is younger and that's two four five, seven five premiere you're up. They can.

P

Teacher we can, they are two.

C

Four five: seven five and then Christoph you can choose where you want to start with. Parsers expand like things.

O

Big loss for it anything you.

P

Want to use it for clip.

O

A

Particular in binary encoding format of cryptographic, structures- imagers are always big endian. So it's because it's a wire format, so it's big endian right and anytime that I'm doing anything where I have to read or write one of these, often it's even an unsigned big-endian value, which means I need to allocate space to insert a padding, byte and then reverse all the data, because our big integer class once signed little-endian.

A

Now I have to export it reverse the data trim off the padding by.

A

So it would be nice if we exposed the two options of you want to read this side. Your unsigned, and do you want to read it big in the air a little again.

L

So will it be better to just provide an API to reverse that.

A

By it's in this file that solves the big-endian little-endian, assuming that I'm allowed or assuming that I have a beautiful span and not every totally span, which I often don't want to have to spend, and but it it doesn't solve the needing to insert a padding byte to get an unsigned representation like internally. It just means that this will read it back. So, although that doesn't change the direction of the world, so this is this is faster than reversing old data.

I

You could do the reverse for try right bytes, but not for the constructor, and it would only handle the big endian and not the unsigned piece. Then I get that right. Yeah.

A

So the the try right would would write the padding byte and then, if you wanted to ignore it, you could slice.

I

Get out the slice and then shift there were Wars the patting bite always with yes, the.

A

Padding bite is always the most significant byte, so big endian. It would be the the leftmost a little endian. It would be the rightmost memory.

L

Goes from left to right memory goes from left to right.

F

On the debugger.

A

In particular, I show you know, given a particular two byte value. There are four different numbers that that can mean and when you're.

P

A

From a wire format into big integer, it's annoying to to need to do all the mucking with the data before hands in order to get big integer. To give you the value. One.

D

To go back to Crystal's expression, I'm, not sure whether that's what she was asking for, but it seems to me that what we want to do in general, it's not have like an API surface or be sprinkled big any little, and you know all over the place like. Ideally, what we would do is you would say, we normalized to know little any any memory for the most part, because we know that's what most computers are and then the only case that we deal with big a villain, no book parsing my opponents right.

D

But that makes not a question of whether we should just do it centrally in one place, because they say the party that meets the spans. But they may have to call some reverse function and you know call later it because we don't have to enlighten every single unit being able to read things in the reverse order, which seems.

L

Or although we could have sorry a week ago, we added some API so convert basic types.

L

From big-endian little-endian spouts, maybe it should be a method on this time.

A

Well, I mean we did like we added read to span as as a big-endian.

I

Christophe assuming Jeremy doesn't want to use this in the crypto stuff you're signing up to have that, no longer being the time yeah.

L

I know I know that I was thinking about this as well.

A

But I would so I mean the problem with reversing the Indiana. Something is you have to have writable memory, so if you're only given readable memory, it's now a copy operation.

A

If we made since we added the ability to parse along and tell the parser that this is read-only memory in its big endian like that's, this is just you know, big Wang, so so what about? Instead.

L

Of these methods, because you know a constructor, it's some kind of.

A

Static force- yeah, that's fine I would just work with. This is how this is. The only thing that takes data input right now is the big big integer constructor. The line. Will it be exotic? Maybe it's not worth to make into a static.

Q

L

It's just constructors. We try to keep them kind of relatively simple, and this one is like geez. What are all these things like I? Don't understand why you know why are you asking me whether it's signed or outside I.

D

Guess the argument is more like because the existing we can do j1 just happens to parcel by doing already and.

K

Jeremy, the existing one just assumes sign existing one assumes.

A

Signed a little of you, so if the most significant bit of the most significant byte is set, your a negative number.

L

It comes, how does the big integer know whether it's signed or answer? Is there like a cloud somewhere weigh me so I? So maybe I saw something. There is not correct, so I assume, there's a byte array and the most significant byte has to interpretation. It can be either sign or if it's an unsigned number, it's basic people significance value.

A

From what I've seen of looking at the class it's stored, it, it stores the byte representations and then has a site identifier. What's the sign, which is a other name for long and as long as the inter long, it doesn't use the binary.

A

P

A

P

Says negative 2. That means.

A

That I use negative 2 this as.

P

A

It has to go check and find out. Is that actually a sign bit or is that a representation of the number negative 1.

A

F

A

So it I think it internally is storing things is unsigned, and that has a hint of like oh I'm, actually, a signed number sitting on the side.

A

Or nothing else it would just insert the padding bite itself would read so think. Gentlemen,.

D

It's good argument: I searched for the video. Only one switched all means we should probably expose these api's. You should just make sure that I didn't insist infection. So do we.

G

Usually news speak.

D

Anyone really use this living, however,.

M

With this big Indian, sir, that also.

A

At the default.

L

So the end illness I mean we already have this concept and, like people kind of you know, because people can read up on it, this is signed. Unsigned. Pardon me bothers me actually more because it leaks internal implementation. No.

A

This is only telling you how to parse it. This is it's not an unsigned integer yeah.

D

No, it's parse this data, as it.

D

Was actually what you do for the for the existing one? Is you just pass in? Is big endian fault, so how does it know whether it's signed right side, I.

I

Just think it's just how it's interpreting it correct me if I'm wrong during me, but if.

K

You give me you.

I

Know four bytes and you tell me: I- can interpret that as either an int or I can interpret that as a UN's right just bait and if I interpret it as an int. Well then, the most significant bit is, you know, is basically whether it's signed or not essentially, and the and it's actually this unsigned. It's just part of the number I think this is just doing the same thing. Yeah.

D

What does the existing constructor through the only accept spider it? It's a little bit. Sorry.

A

It is signed a little, so does use it sign yeah. So my two parameters default values are the current thing.

A

The false eNOS.

P

A

B, what we currently did launch is unsigned a little sorry signed.

P

L

So I still say that this parameter tells that constructor how to interpret basically implementation detail of how it you know like. What's that, a presentation that the babies do not it.

A

Doesn't tell you anything.

L

A

Internal organization, it.

L

Tells me about the bytearray whether.

M

It's you know how it should.

A

Interpret it, how the parsing should be ability who cares how it's stored.

A

Yes, that's what I'm trying to control.

L

How the parsing.

A

L

Know somebody you know understands the format of the battery as opposed to just treating it as a very long indicator is.

I

There anything special about the format. Isn't it just a very long integer, it's just a very long integer.

A

Just but just like, we have long and you long you can have a longer and a longer I mean.

N

What would you advocate having like a you big as a separate type.

A

How does it wrap around these kind of a bigger them yeah? So this is like essentially the big integer parser. You can think of it as like, if you're storing in it's it's are you sign extending or not? Are you sign, extending or zero padding the number you're storing it in is always assigned value you're, just telling it what what the memory that you're pointing at whether the sign bit is a sign bit or the sign bit is a number.

M

A

Essentially, it's there for different blog formats. That can be an integer.

D

D

Serialize big integer generically you should basically use the existing API.

P

D

Possibly, you know is unsigned to false if you want to not have to store the information separately.

D

L

Smaller it's. Why I think that, usually, is that sighted people have one time to represent both unscented in this case.

M

Q

Anything for the binary case. We don't have this while we have a boolean parameter, quote- it a rate case. We don't have something that says anything about is signing for this sign. I.

Q

Always saw the span there, oh sorry, but we already have existing constructor. That takes binary, for example, that doesn't take into account sign this at all.

A

I mean we can we can overload the byte when, if we want to, but since all byte arrays are interpreted well, it's readable, expand of bytes didn't seem like we needed. Another overlay. I was.

Q

Just trying to figure out whether or not why we didn't think we needed a signed bit before with the by duration.

A

Whatever reason we've never needed it, and so in all of my codes that I've had to deal with big integers I, always have to say new.

P

A

Data I was given plus one copy stuff into it, reverse all the bytes and then go parse that and in our current era of don't throw crap GC. If you don't need to I'm saying this, is the API I need to stop doing that? The.

D

Only thing that.

A

D

Be is unsigned, or do you think.

D

Generally, the two people care more.

A

Then the I mean the orders. This way too. We would then say of unsigned make it okay, so I think the the natural English order would be. This is an unsigned big in the integer I see so unsigned. I guess should come first, so.

R

I have a question.

L

About the try right bytes, so we have many ideas like this in cortex la mean some of the ideas that we'll be discussing today and they are almost the same signature except the options are controlled with this type called first format.

L

We even have an interface I write the book that basically has the same signature, except instead of his big endian, big endian and is unsigned. It would be a parameter called parsed format and it controls the output.

L

Should we change the signature to match.

A

Functionality now what it looks like so.

D

You're saying, instead of having this big onion and it's unsigned as individual strongly Tavarez, you would have a generic. How do you represent the component I'm.

I

Gonna use crostata I'm, looking at parsed format, it looks like it's: constructor takes a char and a bite I.

L

Mean you can so it's basically. First format is like a pre first formatting string. So what we could do is, in you know, uppercase B, lowercase, B, uppercase, L, lowercase, L,.

A

You know, and it was capital, the a lowercase and then the capital is a capital or slower case, presumably as an assignment.

L

Because then, if you do this and we implement iodine at some point- don't forget integer. It can be basically like sugar written to like text writers, but when you only take one out, isn't.

D

Even we said you accept one, the text by it and achar the world so.

L

Dumb, there are two ways to construct: there are several ways to construct: parse format think about this, because you can construct it from just a chart: okay, but if you have a single child again, how would you represent two babies, uppercase B, lowercase B.

A

Sign right, I think uppercase B is unsigned big endian, lowercase B is sine thing at the end, the.

S

River, which one is signed, is just.

P

S

P

S

Just look at the table first.

A

S

A protease format, lower case B is locusts, that's natural, sorry.

A

S

Lower case M is the minute I. Think, okay,.

A

Well, alright, so they're cracked, yeah I mean I, think you know personally what I care more about the functionality. So you know whatever, but just.

I

Try understand the crystals proposal, Christophe you're, basically suggesting we teach engineer about new format, strings that are that support both unsigned and signed big endian and not. And then we change existing methods like to string with its format to process that, and we take essentially the equivalent.

P

I

A format string to try right, bytes and also to begin to juice, constructor.

L

Well, the constructor constructor I kind of don't care, it's just the method that writes the big into integer, and maybe it's not worth it because from binary representation, I, don't know, I mean it is a good point for, like.

D

Always represented Construction is.

L

D

L

Just parameters like this, but don't you want to have symmetry between it- depends how often you write and what ideas you do use there. Oh I P I to write or use some higher-level. hmm What do you do in other cases? Don't you.

D

Have like your equivalent of a try right if I read five parts, it takes comments right now, I think we knew people who just encoding the it's not for so there are right. Yes,.

L

So there are basically, there are two different methods: one writes binary format and one writes textual format. I see the textual one takes additional parameter that think about. It represents like an encoding or a culture, but this is a binary. This is like a binary serialization and these would not take the additional structure. They would just a expand, bytes written and then this format.

D

I, don't have preferences here like I'm, a general like you, regardless of the including four bucks hundred per formatting strings. Is it as Jeremy say you kinda have to look up a table like you will not be able to write this by just looking at it Alison's like there's little I. Can let me give you like it strongly typed field that says big endian signed big endian unsigned Linnaean unsigned, and then you just basically pick those guys and these ones.

L

Mean it's possible yeah, so I would only do it if, like I, assume that try right bytes is not very common view.

L

Right now is not.

T

Anything that's family, but you.

L

Think that it's from under users should leave it as such and then implement explicitly the interface. The translates from the formatting since you're leaving the optional can always edit.

A

The current, so the current to binary on big integer, looks like it's called approximately 60% of the time that somebody uses the Viggen of your type. So 60% of the time that somebody uses a big integer, they want the lights back.

A

According to API is up that met all.

B

D

You're implying it's.

B

A

The meeting I'm just saying it's, the data I'm saying- is limited by the accuracy of our telemetry.

A

It's a qualified student, not a disqualification.

A

And then, if it, you missed it from the proposal, I was suggesting that we instead.

P

Of adding overloads.

A

To the span ones that we just augment them because they haven't shipped yet so that's replacing two of the methods and then adding the one for the two byte array.

Q

A

So if you look, I commented the constructor and the try right bytes should that, since we haven't shipped those methods yet that instead of adding new orbitals, we should just add the default parameters to the existing one, but the two by two races. That is already a shift method.

L

So two byte array right and try right bytes is kind of yeah.

A

Just whether you need to ask whether it makes the memory for you is.

L

There a way to determine how large is this fan.

A

Let me provide for video, so there's count but and I think Steve up something like that.

I

A

I

On one second I track.

L

So would it actually make sense to just expose by its property on big integer that returns the fighter three non-hispanic whites and then you can copy it yourself? Is it.

A

Unsigned little Indian side, big India, so no no! It does not make sense because you're back to this existing I.

N

L

Know that one is different performance characteristics.

A

Yeah, so if we don't want to edit things, we can add them as overload, but I felt like just editing your augmenting, the existing ones that we were adding for this release. So.

L

The thing that people would come up use that to byte array instead of try right parts like do. We need to add both.

D

Come if you need a byte array either way by the way, it's much more convenient to write buttons. Oh yeah, that's what it depends, how it is encrypting you probably mostly deal with by the ways today right there or you actually have.

A

The stuff that this is relevant to I'm, mostly working with spans, whether you could do that. But this is just like in.

D

General I mean what I like about having this API is justice. It just keeps the type symmetric right, because we already have these members in the time since also not as not I, do think everything that takes a bite away right now, since the new Flags everything through the by the way realistic. So you think that they do.

L

Bite that I already exist. Yes, it.

A

Just doesn't matter yeah, yes, yes to byte array exists with no parameters, which is why I said tad that what is an overloaded try right, bytes exists without the billions. So just another.

U

One should the try right bites equal to copy to try right by this is what.

A

We already checked it.

J

All right I mean we haven't shipped it yet we're.

A

Free to rename it.

J

I

Were to change that here we change it everywhere. We've added try right bytes, which is a bunch of places we could, if we prefer a copy to write.

P

In fact, I think copy 2 is what I digitally.

I

Proposed but then we decide on how many bytes.

E

C

Yeah anything from spam so.

L

First off, so you can do the first two because they should be relative database. Just overloads of like exist passports, so.

V

L

Extensions because for methods that are called.

L

Starts with and I think we should add corresponding entry.

I

Why do we specialize fight with its own method.

R

Widely specialized, what.

A

Sorry, I, don't Smith of T and.

W

Then starts with for spam. Well, it's just I think Austin measured performance and it was difference.

X

Start what was the answer? I come here. Awesome I believe.

I

X

One of them.

I

We can always specialize. T is a value. Types are just gonna specialize it anyway, so we can always just forward it to our own bike.

K

Based implementation internally, no I mean you could do the if.

K

P

L

Know starts with this use. It's used in like Kestrel parser, it's so performance. I said if I would really not touch them the white one.

R

There shouldn't be any difference whatsoever. Oh so cannot.

L

Be there cannot be any difference, the implementation is different. Nobody said.

D

If you write a message today right, the gin has to specialize for a menu type. So what we've done in or Cindy stuff is? We have said, like the add method to this generic says if T is type of fight. Here's your code else, if T is type of this, this code and an engine, is smart enough to kill all the other branches and then effectively you're left with your specialization.

D

So you can do whatever you want to do is if you want to specialize the only case where that doesn't work is if it's reference types, because if you do the reference types and you end up with, like you know, duplicated code, because the JIT cannot actually do that, because it's just one.

L

Well, if we can, you know measure the size non-performance different between these two. Then it's fine I mean you know this. Alright. Also the constraint to I waited OOP I, see the branch with bite, we'll just ignore it. You know yeah I mean if there's no performance difference. It sure I just thought that you could.

D

Just look at me in the code.

C

So for the performance, what kind of measurements do we have like Carol? Is it like on someone's machine or did we do like bigger investigations and things like a speciality earning API all.

Y

Right, yeah, that's what you know: I've seen those cases so just awesome.

Y

C

So it's on the on the third part: okay, cool, whatever.

Y

One dance I wanted to hear.

I

My general theory would be if we, if we already have existing methods like this, where we have bite specializations in addition to the tea overloads, we should maybe revisit them and get rid of the bite ones. If we can.

D

We should besides cleanliness, is there any other benefit from bobo removing them, but that's half than others sure like about ladies no I mean performs well, it makes no difference. It's just it's a bit more.

D

It's all science.

I

Doc's code, maintenance.

D

Yeah, the only thing that I mean I- remember when you do these kind of tricks is like you have to be careful when you put your message, which means if we do what's even suggestive and if you don't have their problem so, for example, everything that takes a generic has to be an extension method effectively, because otherwise you don't get to specialize it necessarily depending on what you aim for this actually I think the name on the bulk of the same thing may actually work. Hey yeah,.

D

Any other concerns or other was good, I mean if we had started before we have. It seems.

Q

And I don't see the api's proposed there, yeah formatting.

N

Christoph filled.

Q

N

L

Are you saying that I should rename the starts with 2n? Do it? Ok, ok, good.

D

To be a scenario writer, whatever, how will you use- and you have some sample.

H

Inputs and outputs.

I

Also, on their mind, I understand my own question. I was gonna, ask why we have both or span and read-only span, but it's because these are extensions and it will get resolved otherwise because it doesn't consider a plus. The casts is that right? Yes,.

L

Yeah for the considering moving all this smile of by things, I think we should have a separate issue because it's a like a you know not specific. This one might use.

D

The magnet extension was that the thing that Yan was saying that, if you make them extension methods the benefit, is we have generic methods. Other generic types, which gives us the freedom to only basically generate the code for the methods that are actually instantiated with other than the instance method, be always to do all of the road. Okay, so I mean you never get to make them in this method to goddess, we do well.

L

Unless you want to pay the cost of jigging everything.

I

And for the for the bite, specific ones, they would have to be expensive methods, but for the T, theoretically, they wouldn't have to be.

O

All right, but do they work.

L

Whereas here like the metals but.

D

L

In EXO and.

D

They don't have lost index offer.

H

I

We've got so, can you help clarify with these categorizations? Are here crystal so there's there's last index of any for bite, but not 14.

L

Yeah so basically I copied and pasted the index of methods from span extensions and then added last in front of them. But it's a good question like should we help you know last index of any and the index operator take these.

I

Again, yeah I guess it just goes to the cross-cutting thing, but again it'd be great. If we can avoid the specialized ones and just have the T based ones.

D

We actually have efficient implementation, so all of them it seems like articulate.

L

Also, do you remember whether the last index of any other.

U

U

L

So sorry, index of a is the one that I despise, but I wonder whether they're of ending is vectorized. How do you do best? I, don't even know how you can implement vectorize you, you respect you University yeah, like three three.

U

Times so why don't we analyze the next of the text? T.

A

We have lastin index of T, but not last index of any T, and that was Steve's question. Okay,.

D

Thing, appearance.

L

So should we I think what do people think should we add last index and in that takes T was.

M

Used to provide.

L

I

We do the same thing in each cross-cutting.

L

Thing basically look at the implementation, whether it can be collapsed and measured. Okay,.

I

Yeah it's doing its job. We shouldn't even come down to measuring perk the eye. The azzaman tucum.

A

Seem to have a syntax error, all 19 I think.

L

What you do as the constraint to all of them 3 was it the constraint.

M

Needs to be put here is a struct.

M

H

Can't have a campus fan of arrested.

J

Y

A span of you do span of object.

R

Is really the span of point everything's gonna be whatever is it? So? Why is the struct constraint.

Z

Re you check see the code.

P

Odelay, nothing, the koenkan cool.

AA

N

I mean the deep only quality operation for reference fixes, adversity.

L

But I action item we need to remove that constrain. At least one of them AP.

A

N

It does poke the bear, so this is also about striking shrimp. Yes, considering dinner, oh wait. I.

AA

AB

Index ebony says fight, it's not. It wasn't index of any wasn't generic.

C

AB

Have index of vanity AP.

C

Ice, it was also right. It.

AB

C

AB

Option SOT is always a credible structure like that, but you have.

C

It on index off.

L

Yeah I copied and pasted the api's from the red.

U

Yellow yeah cuz.

W

C

Do we need some kind of reconciliation of all the existing, but what makes sense what does not so.

L

We just said like we would do already: we will go Eric, you'll I mean experiment, whether JIT can deal with that. You know not having the fight overloads and then second one is just.

A

And they may have just copied them from the as bites, which presumably takes a structure, because that's the only way that we're guaranteeing what the memory looks like and some of the ability, like bleeding methods.

R

L

Have a constraint.

A

AB

A

Starts with even has the word t instruct the only thing that doesn't as span and copy two are the only things on here that are generic, that don't have. The T must be a struct.

W

Pians work just remove the head shake well if it compiles afterwards right.

Z

Next one, which one do we want to do, and some D basic before or anything.

S

Z

S

From last week, yeah.

AA

That's a let's do a detail here is a TSP set up one first yep.

I

And there goes the meeting.

A

A

Don't hit the second time yeah I just have a conflict or it's a well.

C

I think that's different, just fast forwarded to the end of these discussions.

D

What you said that goes to meeting Stephen, that's what he dropped out. Yeah.

K

I was talking with u-turn, you were even mean to the table. I.

D

Think it's not a problem with my USB driver, it's appalling with the attendee yeah. That's what the problem is.

B

D

The this is the postponement thing right well,.

L

The parse format is, they say my.

Y

First on the list.

L

But it's we should start with the parser and formatter types.

M

C

The utf-8 or supercharged format- it is now.

C

Is the format supposed to be the past four month.

S

O

L

S

You change the parts well.

L

S

Parsing, the precision doesn't play any role, I see.

S

M

S

Parts format is it's a charm plus an optional precision and since precision is meaningless in parsing, the only that's left. This is the chart.

C

The chart alright.

S

V

Xa format, fair.

S

Enough for expert and default should be default generally should be. What is a default on the classical, usually.

P

Myself is it over.

S

There right so the.

C

Default over there is no beauty of a parser right. It's not gonna work right. Why.

S

Not char is it's it's, it's not great style, but it's legal, syntax, I think. Maybe you can t say no 0. Oh ok turn off dad style. I won't do it in the actual note, but it's yeah I didn't know that yeah default would be cleaner.

L

Yes, especially that now we have this awesome syntax in c-sharp, you can just say evil. You don't have to say default, open parenthesis. Then the title, a repeated.

N

5 is that reading apps right, tryparse I was unhappy reading or, if you pass X as to hormone yeah that wasn't even as decimal. Yes,.

Q

Are all the former strings really only a single character.

L

So one question I have should read on this fansite drama therapy called utf-8 bytes. So it's clear I know it says it in the type name.

V

L

Which one again so utf-8 parser all the methods started with parameter is bytes. They need to beauty effect text.

D

S

I would just call.

D

It by its no tanks but yeah well.

S

I think you want to have text in there because bytes is a representation, but text is the semantics.

I

Follow up on the west's question since I I, don't know that it's working with the existing parsed methods on types like time span. It's not true! That format is only ever one char. So are we doing only a subset here.

S

We are subset yeah, which format is the multi letter. One.

I

Anything where you specify like just a month, you're, like percent like percent s or I, can even.

S

Custom formats, yeah yeah custom formats are considered out of scope for this API. Well,.

L

R

We don't have custom formats for ease, but here the parsing data in here, okay,.

I

And good, although who I don't think, has any customers.

W

How do you parse it.

S

There's there's several there's actually I think there. We follow the behavior of date/time parse exact, which actually takes a format spring pull string out, and this one only takes a card so like you would have yeah where's we're not supporting custom formats. So.

I

If that's the case, should we should format, be standard format or something that makes it clear or we think that's just understood and.

AC

We're not doing it today, but I expect we're gonna. Do it tomorrow. At some point nice we.

L

Go that you know later can add an envelope that does custom formats is.

D

Any benefit of not taking a string today, I mean you're, not you know at locations right like you, you call this guy once right.

L

Literal there's some cost of adding a literal and incopy to a string. 3 string copy.

L

C

L

C

Literal so difference if I came taking strength versus char is like there's no different basic.

L

Charlie's, just we passed two bytes to the method string literal. We have to get the runtime field, which constant data in the metadata that we have to create a string and copy it into the string and.

Q

The string on the heap but won't be worship in the pabni support string later now, I have string enter to field instructor, no.

L

It's not this chart. We will basically just send an envelope to the shrine parse method. It takes the strain. Why were initially wearing that report.

Q

Format then, at that point or.

L

The for the weeds has it parts or format the part yeah, so you wouldn't need as much format where you have never loaded takes a strain on you you'll just send them. Add enough to note that, instead of the char, it takes a string. So if you want to pass a string, you can and now.

S

It allows you to do custom for this million custom formats, SAT idle for sort of to the mental performance, not convenience, I. Think.

Q

The date/time we're gonna probably end up having to, or these things won't pay for. Usually you.

D

Think for primitive times nobody cares money at day. Time seems like a likely candidate where you see support more I'm, actually expert. My XML.

F

Has a specific.

D

Representation right I want to do high performance, XML parser right there, so they need.

L

D

Today, because.

L

It's part of like HTTP, okay,.

H

L

Basically need to support the default that our RFC format and that's it for it.

D

I mean, even if you have to extend the side I mean you could start doing the custom, polymer scrimmages, adding another character to the set of things. We understand why we could just say we don't support XML. We would add the extra tool to be in the XML standard.

D

I

Can I ask I totally can buy that methods like tryparse bite and try? Parson 32 could be an impact it per flies by a string instead of a char parameter, but date time and time span parsing. Those is so relatively expensive. Does the string versus as char actually matter.

L

We could measure that, but honestly I would even start with I'm, not even sure whether we will ever support custom formats for this, like once you get into custom formats, then you have like order of magnitude, performance, kids and I'm, not even sure we. So as long as we don't back us up into a corner where we can't support them, because I said we don't because we just said another local basis. That's.

Q

What I'm saying we just need to have an out so that I suspect we will. We can never say we never all supported. Well, let's just make. The first thing we do is, if you just add to the list of checkout form, as you can pause.

D

It and I think that will be the most.

D

Rfc follicle that then show me we had the customer once did you could start with something smaller and losing my patience against. You need to be nicer.

D

Won't feel that keep sticking out.

I

He passed a unknown for man, we throw.

S

Unknown former unknown or on support formats, trans, yes,.

L

Yeah new formats in the future, otherwise we cannot add new formats in the future, got.

I

D

We could just return false.

D

It's this is like an invalid right. It was.

L

Programming aeronaut.

D

L

Fine with knowing.

D

I'm just saying you could do jesus christ, yes,.

G

But it's dropping Steve all the time. Yes, it's now, it's doing it under Steve I. Think our videos froze.

D

Let's normal every time the wrong piripi says: I.

I

Was bleeding give you the benefit of the doubt? He know that it was the roundtable, but now I think you're. Just messing with me. Yeah only.

D

There's another person in me because it also messes with me apparently he's like a kitten.

D

So that, given that any concerns of the gentle, maybe I shade.

N

Looks like you can't every single shrunk, except for system Bachar.

N

Right because systems are rzg gets it.

N

Stopping integer like a fight or.

U

L

Kind of would make sense, but parsing naturally.

S

It's a one byte.

N

N

B

Well, dadaaa, three kind of late, because.

N

L

So they used to have nested types right now we basically make them to top level title said: yeah, those the nested types I was just showing it to I. Think a son or Levi last week, visual studio literally cannot deal with types that are nested and have names that are similar to namespaces. It was just such a mess.

L

Also once suggested that somebody had. We were discussing the name of the first format, time and I think at the suggestion to rename it to other format.

L

That they, like the first format, is used in parsing and formatting API. So it's confusing, because people think that it's related to the action of parsing, but it's basically that the format is prepares because nothing to do with the operation. So Ari suggested that we.

L

Basically specifies.

E

In which format the buckler ends up being length, even suggesting of all they really just call it standard format.

D

As opposed to custom format, hmm I like it.

U

Yeah, that's good. Okay. All right is.

M

D

The standard, what's second its composite arbitrary, said to be standardized.

D

Someone you will have standard format to an O.

L

B

Where these ones lower, where did Stephen such as no, he was suddenly said they said it bigger Leah like he was talking about the part.

B

G

You keep health or disease to him. One Joey.

I

You know trying to get rid of me again but failed yeah. So.

Q

The porch doesn't really need the precision in, in any case, he said, you're delegating I'm just trying to think it tastes, but yeah.

D

What we did all this boxing of our API, so that's just the way seashell works is that we have one name for. Let me take an argument and then we have multiple names in return, a.

D

Really just like that too much me, but like it'd, be a bit old, so.

I

I know: what's the behavior on parsing integrals, you go until the end of the span or you go until you hit an on digit.

Q

Yeah, you never have a case. We have a decimal, followed by an integer that we're connected together and a buffer. Though, did you even need a precision.

Q

You knew you always have two digit number, but you were then you have an energy following knows no separate twice again before you passed.

P

L

You can always.

S

D

Format, you don't have their public because it's just by to pull up the, but so.

N

Zero with one space and.

D

Zero like space in them in here.

Q

You owe me: is there a reason why we chose 99 as the match precision as their tickers spec or something that says this is like the max McCrae no I.

L

Don't remember now, but I think. The reason was that this is the max precision in that net in CLR, but for nothing. That's.

I

True I, don't know, that's why we chose it, but that's a true statement.

N

S

Returns no precision in 2255, which, which is a distinct thing, from zero C, for that, yes,.

Q

Mr. Fortescue, but no.

S

Is the check to see if it's not default struct? It's.

L

Basically, the char is zero and the precision is zero. Now it's just a very convenient helper, because many metals you, the first thing you do. Is you check whether it's.

Q

More efficient at doing the fault, of course, format. Compare yes, I, don't.

D

Understand? Why? Because because, unless you implement I created with all of the like you, if the default implementation still, ours is not a good contract.

D

Well, we could, but then also like writing the code. It's just ugly right. It still, like you say, I mean no above default. Maybe it's not too bad, but you used to say you know some variable double equals default off, whatever the type name in this case is also non generic. They really suck it in a mutable array because we didn't have the shorthand for default. Oh sure,.

L

D

L

Think that it would be more expensive because, basically, what will happen is the default body will have to be created, char and added precision. Then you would have tools, charts they possibly have padding, so they are even not attending one machine work or no should be, for my try, maybe should be just provides. Yeah.

U

L

Then you pass them to this method.

N

Well, does separately doesn't make sense for this thing if we should what we do, that yeah.

Q

Q

Assume that format equals null shorthand for money goes default, of course, because it's not.

M

Q

M

S

We're always on even for some.

W

S

Yeah, it's allowed.

W

That compiles compiled yeah.

S

F

L

Think I know why it's compiling, because char, as you said, char I can't believe that can be. You know normal can be assigned to charge which results in that just zero and then there's implicit cast from charge of Paris format. Otherwise it wouldn't about I mean it would be very strange.

L

S

Not gonna count it that way in the actual code. Consider this a typo in D in the reveal.

L

Yet cuz this super convenient because in most cases you don't pass their precision and then you can just pass. You know you can say: try format, some value buffer, bytes, written T.

D

L

D

But the question here is like: should we not have like effectively MSDN tables in code.

D

This letter, yeah.

I

We're really trying to make this as absolutely streamlined and efficient as possible. Would we want to encourage folks to do the parse format once rather than you know, with your extra instructions to creative each time, yeah.

L

If you care about that level of detail, because parse format that you know if it had to be like actually parse the string- that's kind of expensive but like, if you did, you know the implicit operator, I mean it just assigns the charge the field.

L

It seems to me like whatever.

D

Mother would like is like it feels it less of what it means and then returns. The transformer.

N

So, are you saying that you're, the first formats class, which has about from static forceful Minnesota, trying.

L

Different means: why that's? How formats work like, depending on the data type.

D

But you could have anything I think you know what it like, what the primitive support right you could have like in 32 blah in 32, blah and 32 blah all right. Thank you. I mean logical description. Basically.

N

But you can always know because I.

D

Think the child will load as much as community anymore, because I bother pasta the existing thing, because that's the thing I want. You know the chunk of know this so convenient I mean I really compared to like possible and I thought exactly well known thing. Yeah.

L

The way known thing is like what would it be alternatives? I mean it certainly support every single.

D

Entity here, but it's assignment.

N

Made of like an equal ten thing, so, for instance, one of the first format like well note statics, could be perform at day time, RFC format and another one to be like could be parse format, RFC format, and maybe their representatives are so maybe they're both actually the same thing. But you pass whichever one for.

L

Some of the like well-known- maybe it could make sense but I, think there.

U

Are like, like.

L

D

Mean like I, don't know like, maybe just even if I read cover to see Patrick the role that it. What do you want means I, don't even know it's. You.

N

Know smuggling.

N

S

Have this president created their language already, the better worse so.

D

I'm using the metaphor, like 15 years, I can never remember the poetry.

W

D

But they damages.

S

They know I, remember the subset that I use, but.

L

This problem is how much.

H

Except for them.

L

Well known, like the RFC for daytime, the constants would not solve your problem because they would be parse format that D so I. We can. We can name this guy.

N

Interests, for example,.

N

Questionnaires.

S

Have those much a letters become the name and in the public knowledge I, don't know how to answer that the letters have already kind of embedded in people's minds and they are effectively name, and this is advanced I.

L

Think everyone.

Q

L

Which also I challenge you to find anybody ever vote. I know we need a special technique, it's a special query in search engines and number for months, and this DN.

D

L

D

Otherwise, officiating overcompensates. Now it.

H

D

Like they, the only feedback me had so far I think was renamed press comma two standard formats into the night right cool. Where.

W

D

Just general correct behavior, because if you compare part on that Springs right now, it would be horribly inefficient.

Q

We discovered at the top part we talked about where this is going yeah, so.

D

I think I need to leave now like it seems like going.

L

For now, it's going to the same SMP, where we are putting all these ideas.

D

Well, we were chatting oh.

S

H

S

To I don't know, I, don't even like it that try format doesn't include tight. Tight means to be odd. To be honest, um I'm I'm I just like to be more explicit.

Q

That is an inconsistent, efficient thing wrong. Yeah, oh because.

D

I see you basically I see. Well, let's see what I said earlier yeah no this case you cook everything doesn't go on to turn it actually I. Don't.

S

Know in some sense personally I like to make my intentions explicit. You know this I come back to the binary writer example, which I actually hate that API, because it you know it has ten overloaded. Let us all main right and I think that an explicit cast just make sure my intentions are honor. That's what I'm coming problem!

S

That's that's one of my pet peeves. So.

Q

So we not do the same thing with trifle right then.

AA

This is the time format, one also taking name yeah.

S

I think that would be my first.

D

Yeah, so the things they take out I could go either way because the compiler will not allow any implicit cats right. So, like you make your intent explicit by way that won't always be the case.

D

That being said, I mean you could do you know out var, which kids to compile it's like? Well, no I have no I need to know what you want to do so. Well, you specify the type of users.

N

In the world I'm happier, but you know I.

Y

D

Honestly say like don't move the tightness in the method. Names makes and more symmetric with.

P

D

Binary Reader API instead yeah or stream reader api's.

Z

D

Think it will never look beautiful because of all the auto arguments so like it's.

L

Not lived a new inline syntax, it's actually quite nice, I started to like our problems, yeah that I don't use to us anymore, because I have to at the package yeah.

S

AA

It was a BB, a platform, it adds the tight-knit it gets tighter, which.

S

Way, we're going to go, I mean.

D

The existing final urate guys because they were translators, they basic just say, white and take cept the video right, but then say it mean X X X. So this would match that. But this is, as I said, I hate the fact that binary right does.

S

A bit of that way, yes,.

D

Something like my point of view like I, can I can go either way. I would find it very odd if you would type ends everywhere and try falling, because that's very unusual, they don't do this unity without overloading to do that.

D

Four outs, I, don't think we do this a lot to rely on that whole baloney, but I would honestly somebody who proposed this avi of the thing to me. That makes as much sense as the one that it's like you know it's just what what do you say, but he's very the consistency for the listen.

G

Maybe the one word but like they're, making.

D

It very cool into what we already have. Would you favor the shorter type names, okay, I think they're both.

L

So I'm kind of I'm with are either die, lined explicitness for parsing, but I, also like symmetry between Saracens, so I'm on the fence.

N

To be honest, because you already have the data to write out so why you have to say again, this data is okay.

L

If we I yeah, that's the negative of you know, there was no negative of getting symmetry. Then that's similar, of course,.

Q

D

I can think of where I got like I mean it's usually for integer size values where you do some arithmetic operations.

S

D

Constituent in Dubai tonight right, that's the same where right like in the on the bottom one you it's physically impossible to get shocked by that, because you literally specify a storage location. I didn't like you already typed it variables, there's no implicit conversions I mean right following that argument is actually more beneficial to above should be named the first one, then the what I want.

S

I want the compiler to try to check not as something that changes things underneath me. Yes,.

N

D

Yes, they can say, let's have a variable of type five but I like the type and then I do like. Oh, so by mistake, telling me you are like, oh, and that is surprise. I mean I. Have the same two floats and doubles her. You know, I wasn't believed following types, I useful floating point and then you know the.

L

Former party mm.

D

L

So that's actually a good point re for dead parts overloads. There is no way to screw up.

L

Cussed out parameter, you have to specify it.

L

It only prevents you from using fire, but.

N

You won't screw up the try for that either because by plus 30, if it happens, to fit into a bite like it won't still right now the value 235 it.

S

Doesn't know I mean that's true. That makes it a little bit different than the binary writer example where you actually don't want to change the size. Usually, so that's that that's sort of the mitigation to my argument that says: yeah, it's not so bad when you're mad at text. It's what out all right. Let's remove that, let's.

L

Go with fence. Okay, you leave me, you keep these as overloads yeah, okay,.

I

Ben hurt Ben I mean, if you say, tripe parse, for bite today and the text is like 255 3. We do we return successfully with 2 5 5. Where do we throw Laura return, false or whatever.

S

He will return policy out for that's yeah, that's uh yeah. Overflow underflow is a tradition which we do actually flag is an error. We don't treat to 3 years I. Oh, this is a weird delimiter.

N

You go until you hit involved. If that's.

S

Right everything.

N

That's right: that's.

S

D

All right anything else, I think.

AA

It was renamed also documented yeah.

S

The parameter name.

D

Alright kind of seems beneficial, but I would better than do it. I mean he seems a bit superfluous, because I mean a thing is fine to have the suffix name of the time, but yeah I can go either way. I am. What is true is that menu I mean you display them like this. You would like to have symmetry between these two, but in practice you don't care, because you only look at overloads of in that setting only with all those within that said right.

D

So, what's more important like that, this name here make sense to you I to.

G

Me, like Senate format, you seem sensible.

I

G

I

Middle falters past me is the same defaults as the built in Sikeston yeah yeah.

Q

How bad would it be if we just made it be standard.

S

Format instead of char here too, just for completeness I, just document that precision is just ignored, um it's not portable, it just lets people pass decision.

U

And they may think they may wonder what it means. There's.

N

U

Meaning such as all, only read up to Portage's.

N

And also that's.

Q

Not what we intend to do so, but then, if you're gonna start storing, like constants of my form, a time without the experiment as two different things are called. The part format that char well.

S

You wouldn't be able to sort concepts what a precision is involved because well, you have 99 different constants, no.

L

No, but you make it like, so it's actually I, don't have constants, for example, in like the with formatting correct, because they're individual items of it with are formatted using d2 and d4, but for char having constants doesn't make sense. This char is literal Charlie, but if.

Q

I know my data I'm reading and writing or there's gonna, be of this type format, understood.

L

S

To go to you, I yeah,.

Q

Get it fewer stacking, constants somewhere and then I can use it. My places.

S

Q

I that store char or are coded are everywhere, of course, or tacos.

S

Didn't plus it does a pass from standard format the car, or does that have to be done with hard.

L

Time on the UI simply be named the format on both to standard format like so people can go to documentation like they.

Y

Mean for the scene here is that's.

D

Very you than here, okay, but I mean the guy. You could do it at times. I I, just don't care what you call it here, because the thing for minutes it's actually.

D

But it look to you case and you can just say you know you can just give a similar.

N

D

Mean like if you, if you write your own stuff I, you probably want to use the same format for reading and writing. So you don't yourself, yeah, probably declare you.

D

All right, okay, that was easy, so let me just put the API Stephen.

Q

B

People they haven't talked about the assembly name.

B

Did we change it to the standard format or not yet so.

L

The assembly name system memory right, so there everything is going.

B

Right now, it's.

Y

L

Decided to put all of we only had this discussion for now put them all in system memory, and then we need to have a separate meeting where we can decide whether to make Attic lounge and where we can make it. None of whether we make it basically into paramatma pool and then mean that you can send via it's very magnitude.

L

System pyramids from July to.

D

Moses from in the years 2010.

W

AA

D

L

How do you don't want to listen to discussions by.

D

The time we're done it is checked in this.

D

I swear to God I have seen this API. It.

L

Should we call it max or maximum.

L

Typical story at decode and encode in front of utf-8.

L

But it's not to eat the agents to ask.

V

Much less efficient meeting for you next time in different position.

W

Y

N

So one of the things that I brought up was I thought that we could get away with having pools a set of operations houses. We all discuss this amongst a team and I think our conclusion was we'll just leave it as operation status, because that way the cholera can, if, like it's, not incorrect to do that and the caller. If he really wants to know about the different conditions and take.

L

Common name for a ski and Iulia fate, so ask you I think you know. Oh it's blanks. They usually like single bite in Cody.

L

Yeah well, I guess it's okay! People will have to know. That is that it's actually asking so you can put the.

AC

Another horse pose.

AA

Buzzer pushes our app was for people too many for symmetry within code in place. We then airline, because you could be both the Daniel, a crabber, because that is unnecessary for the equal in place, but I had it possible to be the inverter place. You can go without it. So.

L

I will I would not have it I think the comment that the pattern that we should have is shy. These methods are specialized for the operationalization life nice you know set of API is for the particular operation, and then we have some abstractions and nice. Abstractions will have some parameters that maybe don't make sense, but you still pass whatever you have so like you know, there will be at some point: we're gonna leave that ie a transform operation or what happened code, this thing and then yes, it will have this parameter.

N

So dessert, in that this final walk should actually be add. Having, rather than this final walk, no I think the way to think about this.

D

Is that they should should not reshape the parameters? You should just leave things all the rentals, because otherwise it will be very hard to go from the abstraction to the complete one or the other, but I think we should have the same concept. Just you tato there.

L

D

L

The user who they know that it's a final block, but they don't understand the padding because they don't have to understand the format again.

N

So I know he's a feedback that I had from last week. That we started talking about was a what do all of the different operation status, which are toasting and there's, obviously that the behavior of the API is. Obviously you know in a positive the umbrella, peer review and what values do the out parameters have for each given operation, status, approvers and I? Think you actually us ah I, think you answered a lot of that in the comments, the only one that I still have questions on what is invalid data, because I was I.

N

Think I could make an argument that if the operation status is invalid, data like consumed in Britain parameters or just.

N

In general, under general of these does the ABS in general, so to if, if you, if I pay you back on what Amazon like, if this prefers operation status, then it should have the same behavior that any transform that returns operation status should have, at least as far as populating. Those two out parameters and I was wondering, if say that say that do you're passing this final walkthrough and you're passing into a data, that's not in even multiple of four bytes. There is no way whatsoever for that data to be valid.

N

Why would it he'd run up the entire process.

AA

Because it's an SI trip with a check for the a medic case to high-performance automatic is why don't you add that chat, click, value-added logic? Then it's like a corner case that you want to address it means would be necessary.

N

Basically, so I'm, not necessarily thinking about a 64 here, but one of the api's that I'm working on is URL decoders and it would be, but one of the checks that I have to do is. Is this valid utf-8 data even community the system?

N

It would be great for me to just do a check up front that says: are you valid yes or no, if no just bail, okay, rather than having to iterate through every single possible character and then Chuck well, I know that there's invalid data later extreme, but maybe I can start doing percent on escaping you get to be like your check by data minute. I need the.

AA

Nac mess man managed because you've done that nobody's.

N

But the problem is like if you, if the contract here is that you have to have done work up to the point where the invalidate occurs.

N

This means that the logic for at least the URL decoder now becomes amazingly convoluted, because I have to keep track of where the UTF data is invalid, versus where it's valid, but I still need to do work and now I just need to keep like three different indexes in place inside the application, whereas if the behavior were just, if you see invalidated jump other populating those two out parameters to say default default, it makes it equal.

N

Water carries probably that'll, be sense, also because the caller can't really recover from him valid UTI paper invalid, basically or like what. If we return invalid data once the caller expected to do like he's going.

AA

To have to fail right, but you you, everyone you making. The general concern, which is definition is the benefit, is your apply? The behaviors are applauded, confirmations, yes, so I can have. It is important idea that so.

L

I'll give you a scenario where the color does not have to fail. So let's say you're writing a Diagnostics field. You may want to get as much as you can decode it and then show people that this index something went wrong, but.

N

So you're saying because the code might have a diagnostic school we're now placing requirement on every transform that will never be written and every API that can ever return operation status that they have to go all the way up to avoid failure. Well, so.

L

Maybe so initially the reason for this behavior was that we wanted to implement a transcoding just phone back and.

U

L

No see that I our games is.

U

Actually, the one air so.

L

So we could, we could decide, we could decide that we don't sub-base achill e. We have built in fall bugs, maybe because I don't think the cores ever gone and then we've done you know, then frankly, we can even like probably throw if there's invalid data. Well, maybe not I mean I. Think the question is more like what what do you at what semantics.

D

If you look at other examples of parsing I mean for the most part, you want to continue parsing. If you can, because it's usually.

N

Better to return something for you to a person, I would agree with that for anything else. I buy words like what does it mean to skip over a chunk of a page? 64 data depends.

D

On when you person I mean like I mean I mean there are enough scenarios where you just have two parts like stuff, where it's not necessarily complete or well-formed. You just see the cola just ignores that chunk of the data and says you have this. This part of the message has been garbled, so I can kind of make sense, but.

N

Yeah, okay, so but the problem doesn't get imagine basics before there is a difference between say that one five just got flipped on the wire. You lose that chunk of for input by these three out the pipes here. So you have three bad out. Bytes of the data if versus a byte was dropped on the wire which.

T

Means all data.

N

From parallel right.

D

But some of this you can't detect any we're just returning rolling a BB technology depending what equally yeah.

N

But I'm wondering how the power is.

D

Possible in constant I'm saying, like the thing of the moment, even the encoder may not be able to make a distinction right, because the following looks that it just call the data yeah.

N

I mean what will be that tourniquet like the attorney, would be throw or know it in Richards invalidated such consumer to be d0.

L

But is there have been like.

N

So what are you saying? What was the benefit of it? The benefit of it? Is you don't place a requirement on every possible implementation of transform to have the behavior where it needs to go all the way up until the day? Now, if the transform can detect ahead of time at the.

L

Davis, after so.

N

L

The requirements, basically when invalid data is returned and they can you know, will be consumed and written can be zero or can be as much as they actually decoded anything. If they can check out ahead of time- and it is 0 then shorter, they can do it.

N

But this also means that consumed is no longer an index coordinators. Now and you seem to be relying on way. It's not anything because it again imagine decode from UCLA where the input is a lot lights and it just returns invalid consumes here, every consumer does the invalidate assorted positions. You I see you saying that.

L

The returning 0 would imply that the first fight was invalid, but sometimes it maybe it's not the first bite. But what I don't.

N

Want is for consumed to point to where the validator was because a I don't think is always possible to the tapped and the I don't see how the color and.

D

I only wanted imagine is that if you can write up icing to already this point to the location in the buffer, I didn't for diagnostic imaging, you can say like.

D

Still be ok because I mean Mason. What it means is about Mars, a ton of data I can go over a ton of the headers and then I can say well somewhere. Here is where the whole thing went bad, and in your case it may be the start of the buffer. That might be a little bit off for a bit. I mean. Are you proposing that you always have to return zero? Are you saying zero should be valid if I detect it up front, which I will.

N

Be okay with, but what I'm saying is zero should be valid. Otherwise we should. We should start placing requirements on how the transpose so.

L

N

L

L

You call this operation invalid data is returned output that slice 0-2 written is as much as I could be go. That's where he's not told yourself so I can sound.

AA

Like a debugger can show basic, that's where it is right now, that's what it is right now.

D

Okay, I think in your case, it's over because you said I know that my input size has been multiple of four. You gave me something that is not that so I just paid on the first part, which still seems fine, because you didn't try like.

L

You still adhere to what you was abandoned so then, if written is valid, basically I rolled it much to a buffer, then consumed this. How much did I have to consume to write as much as I wrote, yeah I'm.

U

N

With that, but what I, what I, don't think we can say is that this now requirement for all transforms to to try to go as far as I can, as I am I. Don't like I, don't think we should say that soon to the person I.

L

Would say that consumed is related to written, yes right, which basically is how much I consume to write. What I wrote yeah I.

D

Would I would be ok with the late did say your encoder reads in 4k chunks, but it only has written 8 bytes.

N

Is that ok, I think.

V

N

Would be a stick, 4 decoder.

AA

What's the decision I shared the machine between the consume point you to the 14 that I buy versus a few point you to comments particular even.

L

AA

For 364 0 doesn't point to the person yeah exactly.

L

Right, I think that's a good point. The basically consume dozen points to the first to the place where the problem is. This says how much doesn't see it just says: how much successfully was.

D

Not even successfully just means that this is how much you consume before you decided to bail, but, like you may have read, you may have written 60 bytes, but from the 60 buys you did something, but the first 32 to decide. Then density to is well. If I don't make sense for consumer.

F

Written to you to.

N

Be married, like you worship, resident there, but.

D

Yeah I think in general I can practice in terms of a binary format, so I like. If you let's say you can you can pinpoint the exact by where you go to the size today, there's no another, it's not very likely that that is the root cause, but it's somewhere before somewhere after, depending on like whether you look ahead to make the students you just get it the cinah T where the error is likely to be, and then that's basically the clarity of whatever that guy who eats. You know like how big the chunks.

AA

Are that this guy reads right with nearly so the acquirement still that there'd be some partial work done know that I was trying to validate that a certain. But then.

P

AA

Contracted Krishna's mentioned that I put a slice to the radiant. Has the partial work right? If, if you perform partial work, yeah those.

N

Two parameters contain for the partial workers on, but there's no requirement that implementers actually did anymore. It yeah, which.

O

Is think school seems fine, hey.

D

I think having the exact requirement only makes sense of the caller. Could copyright the Jo like we did? You can, and so the thing.

N

Is like for an individual API on the standard method. I generally would care about this, but because, in particular, this returns operation status. The operation status ena has asked to have well-defined behavior with how any API that returns it populates itself organisms. Otherwise it's going to be too difficult to consider.

N

So I didn't end with so basically any any API that returns. This enum has to have a structure to how it passes the other out parameter such as we so different, but I, don't I, don't think we should have a separate behavior just for the static API, that's different than what we would expect an I transform to private.

D

And I'm, usually here infrastructure, like you, mean like the thing is that it tends to based on the reserved, a yogi or just discussion. The API, like you, know how many except really I.

D

Mean what is the problem is that you know for the all parameter like you like. It will essentially override the values in all cases right, because the because it's out it has to provide a video every single time, equality which you know means if you want to keep track of what you do to yourself, and this thing always sets it to zeros. Then you know you need to do some copies before, but like that's just the way they.

L

All parameters cannot decide before it's over, so it is it.

D

O

D

O

D

I mean usually the common pattern. Is you have a variable in a loop and you reset it at every iteration, but the variable can be declared outside right. So it has a key if you know you're right, you're right there. Yet it's totally.

O

D

G

To losing that.

D

Yes, don't have solution, whether that's right all right so then any other concern of the API thing laughs and the only way that he gave you was think about what is use at all and I. Guess you did it.

Q

We're gonna walk through a set of sample code. You should ship what does look like this multi group talk about what.

D

That was basically when you guys decided that not to have that, then that would have been required. I guess you did this and you promoted that the whole kaboodle or I.

N

Personally, I still think operation status is unnecessary, but unwilling to see.

L

It would help to see the actual code. All right, don't do this, this actually a code sample, there's both perfect son or that.

D

The one again when you only one with a well yeah, then I.

L

Only remember how to get there else, but that sample code doesn't use these API sensor to find well, but it shows how in base64, encoding go to our experimental atom. Oh now go to sorry mutters of the puffers experimenter, a notice system.

L

Buffers span writer.

L

L

AA

Yeah you're scrolling too fast I linked to it in the PR. In there you go where the version post link details not see not. Oh look the lake on the top. No that's.

W

AA

Go go yeah, for example,.

D

And I have to say that school beats pretty nice.

D

Logically, my head have to replace the checks with the operation who have like some convoluted less-than and greater-than. The teens part.

N

No, no, no, the the sample code, the line so again, I, don't know if we want to wrap all on this because I conceded the argument that the operation status is fine, but the sample code that I have have no comparison. Terminals told you might net pokeman. This will take away. I would always make sure that recites were called before equal transfer.

N

That may be the album.

D

This said this is basically only done.

N

Or not done right yeah, it is either succeeded entirely or it has thought, but if it has not to say that entirely that means something. So how do you know, then? How do you miss me ancient.

D

Between I am done and have no more data, and it was invalid. I.

N

Am done means all of the data was valid. Any other return of whatsoever means either the data was invalid because it was incomplete or the Alpha buffer was too small, but it couldn't be too small because I recently sat at a time. So if it returns true or not, if it returns false trap,.

D

Because, in your case fault me like in your case, if everything succeeds, the method always returned truly even on the last one. You just know you're done because he exceeded you input buffer right and so thought will always mean error this. She basically.

L

Conflate two and tools, so that means, in my opinion, the issue. If the solution is that resizing ahead of time, I think ranges from it's not optimal to it doesn't work in some cases, because, if the resizing, if the method to measure was precise, it would work. But given that it's not precise, you may end up in situation where you hello, resizing too much or you ending up with a worse situation where you.

L

Right so the idea is not too small, because the resize overestimates to.

U

N

Ideas of the resize allocate or the resize resizes to be worse, hostile help the largest possible number and you're right. It does some type of risk, but it also makes sure that it can be less and if, for whatever reason, you can't resize just try the operation anyway, you present as well.

L

But then we don't have it's not about like I would have to call the measure. Then you know like the algorithm. Is genetics, I, don't know whether I can resize or not against well.

N

You can't resize it the transcript Rosasco and you just try working with the buffer. You habitat water, sixty on one.

L

No no I'm saying this resize is a callback, I, don't know: what's puts inside city cells, maybe sites or it may tie three sides. Cuz they're they're aliens, just just.

N

Keep the operators like an expert about this one.

AA

I had the feedback for removing data length from decoded list.

AA

Sorry Vols have D, go to place. I added in here then for consist. You said we don't need it. Okay,.

AA

800 points because it's always straights, so any shrinking transformation be sure, and so is it okay to remove that out. Consumers well like we had initially you return, how much it gets you right and how did it go so.

L

We never in every league waiting place, functional data, then.

AA

You should yeah that was the that's. The contract is like a salami one shot. That's what we don't have this file block either well for the debugging scenarios. You may wants to dig.

L

Up partial, so how much you decoded? Do you I? Don't have a very strong opinion I'm just saying if you wanted to write a like a diagnostic tool, it could be useful, but you could also use the if you're writing diet, diagnostic story, I, don't feel sorry.

H

So basically, I think this one here was you don't build snow? You know, that's funny. Is it you need that where you don't know what's beneath them, you go to you just internet, so you don't need that yeah.

H

AA

You let a debugger shake when I was in datebook as equity.

N

Expands video, that's like in those other now, if you have an interface like an eye, transform interface that were an abstract and around this, you would have the length method on the interface and it would just internally slice the span before it heads it back.

H

What's you aim is for the way you took grab of run before step 1, oh yeah,.

D

Ced, okay, so actually excellent, very good. Next demo mixes.

L

Don't they have a plugin for like statement completion and you write English.

N

So it's just a mark: I'll generator hurt no.

L

Like like on the phone, when you start typing, it completes a photo complete. There should be something like this for.

P

N

All right, then, it's going to be alert in here. Is that never going to see what you know you know types fully.

D

Engulfed cities that want to spare words all right, what.

E

Is a boob anything else, otherwise, lunch none, one work.

V

Still ease work quit well.

N

So this isn't system but we're washing.

L

Because we basically decided that it doesn't make sense to break the features into too many pls, they are relatively small. The only thing that would make sense is brakes pan out of the all the methods that operate on span, but we need to decide it separately. What about the purely old register? Well, I see like if we decide to have para momento. We would also all the methods in one person, you know permanent, nothing, 20 permanent, all.

D

D

All right thanks.