.Net Foundation Design Reviews, 13 Mar 2018

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From YouTube: .NET Design Reviews GitHub Triage and Span(of T) Consistency

Description

-13:-35:-54 - Approved: Add support for RemoteCertificateValidationCallback with ClientWebSocket https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/12038
00:10:32 - Needs Work: [System.Runtime.InteropServices] Introduce broader platform definitions. https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/27417

A

All righty, so now we are live I guess they don't have any more people showing up. We should make decision, make it really fast.

B

Did we talk about the system.

C

We talked about the size, not the time. Oh so, basically, when you make a request to a site, for example, it issues a redirect. If it's got a body, we would still like to pool the connection, but we've kind of consumed all of the response that the server is sending. So we want to drain it. We previously added a max drain size.

C

So basically, how many bytes are we willing to consume before we decides just Chuck the connection, but then there's also the issue of well what if the server is being really slow or worse, malicious, and it's just not sending the remainder that I promised? How long do we want to wait before we chuck the connection? We actually have this implemented internally.

C

It's just not exposed so right now it's hard-coded I, think two or three seconds, and so the question is: do we want to expose the public knob for it and if so, what should it be named?.

A

Wouldn't we call it like timeout or something because.

C

We call timeout view so there are. We could call it like no response drain timeout or something it's just a question of. How do we want it to look kind of in intellisense, for example, next to Mac's response drain sighs? Do we want them to be named similarly, or does that not matter.

A

Share the same prefix so that you know they actually show up side by side. I, think that makes the most sense, but.

D

Also I I wonder what they're max makes sense for timeout timeout kind of implies marks the size max competitive, totally makes sense all right, but like time outs, we don't add, you know max time out. Well, once you reach the time you out right.

C

So I think it would either be max response, train time or response drain time out, one of those or something so cool I, don't even know about it. You have the word drain in any other, eight guys.

E

On there than the.

C

Size there are, the similar concept exists on other types and drain, as used there as well. I believe, like I, think that exists on web request, handler or service point manager or some or HP web request, or something someone could look. I was just gracious first time, I've seen the API with the dream, maybe I think email can use this fancy tool.

C

D

Brain we are trying to minimize the number of unique words that we use in I.

E

Was just trying to understand if there a better word for it or not, I, don't know if there is just.

F

G

H

E

It's a concept, I'm sure makes sense.

A

Because I think it would be better if there's the bottom response to type max response, like the second mama, no no ma shopper to remove max from it, but it only works when you could have a partial match. Like you just type responder assembly.

C

So the question is: if you did that there are other api's on sockets, they should be handled at the Mad Max like max, redirect count and Max whatever.

A

Which it's a sucker? Okay,.

I

Finally, the next.

A

A

Think I'm inclined to say facility.

J

A

That was just next year.

D

Do any other max I'm? Okay with it, it.

A

Just reads very strange, but look at the other eight guys you have on it. So we have Mexico made me directions, Mexican actions, precise max response to answer. It will be very weird if no one is like Max at the end. Well,.

C

I mean we have we haven't shipped this, yet we could change those, however, those like max automatically directions max connections per server and Max response. Headers lengths.

K

C

K

Names that are used on e should be client handler, so they are maximals and.

D

But we have some other properties. Use cookies is not max use cookies.

E

Intellisense will do also some nesting subsets. So if you type that response a drain, you'll give off no.

A

I, don't wanna agree, but the problem is that say you type max I say you are you're in Union Hotel. It says right at that point. You will like, if you named this one like this, they basically lose all coherence right, yeah, you I.

C

Don't I would be fine with response try, mine I mean there are other timeouts.

D

G

They are also not but would commence in idle time out. We.

L

Have to own the venetie piano received a different timeouts and.

I

Christophe wins over. After all,.

A

All right so then,.

A

All right, second, one: okay,.

C

So this one so client WebSocket exposes options, and at the moment there, and in particular around SSL, it exposes very little configuration and people have been asking for more and in particularly when we've heard the most about is being able to configure certificate validation. This shows up a lot when you're using self sign starts because you they'll fail validation unless you're able to override it. So the proposal is basically to add the same API that exists.

C

Basically, you need to be fine, Handler and elsewhere, where there's a delegate that allows you to configure how certificate validation is done.

C

Or know it already references system that security, okay, x5 significance, it's alright! You know this is already this. Is we already actually I.

A

Mean literally the same signature as on client authentication options, so I think that makes sense.

C

And we talked about you know: would it make sense to add an ssl options property here and just so? We immediately get all of the SSL options. The problem with that is one, whereas on zaki ziki began that we're sort of explicitly tied an api like this is built on sockets. This is built on system that security with client, WebSocket implementation and yeah, and then also there. There are a couple properties that are already there like. There's a client certificates property, that's already on client web socket web sockets options.

C

So if we were to add SSL options, we would then sort of have two of them which yeah we could address by just having one redirect to the other, but it seems like given the API that already exists. It makes sense to just who.

E

Anticipate putting the other options that are so options on here to them. I think.

C

At some point, we'll probably find that we want to I, don't know if you know I'm, not sure which ones are critical. This.

G

C

One that's populous being the most impactful and certainly the more the individual ones. We add if we end up adding.

C

A

Better to have them piecemeal and then do the computation, because it probably will hurt us eventually, if you can't support things in a few, throws all right and we go up this one and say this.

B

A

The way we didn't have anything.

L

I was I was sure you would do that. No look at the without without milestone, because Miguel didn't reply to my and.

M

Then always there.

A

M

H

So we know whether.

L

H

L

The metadata the.

A

Means we have to point committee trains and our situations in the future just.

M

This one, so they may all get done it I, don't know what to do or a good job man, this one's gonna be fun. Oh, no! This is bad. Okay. This is only subset.

H

Well, Miguel actually wants hierarchy, yeah.

A

Let's sing a talk with me here, like he recipe, don't be peace summit and said: I really want this trip it in general, like the you know, ignore all the strings here, I think I'm generally fine, you know supporting all those strings just a matter of any explosive. My bigger warrior said what I would like to avoid. Is that be you know, I have no two different concepts like you know.

A

We have the OS platform here and we have the good thing and you get and similar to a video already have the you know, TFM mismatch between what you can expose from. You know what an information thing and there long term I would like to get to the point where they agree on the strengths, and you can face it the same questions you can get a compile time mask using you good, you can. You can answer front I'm at least where it makes sense right.

A

Maybe it's a subset at runtime, or maybe the superset of runtime, but the things that are the same should be the same advice. The hierarchy that be exposed here should be the same hierarchy. You throw in the red-crab, otherwise things.

E

A

A high there's, no, the whole intention of this before.

N

E

About having to hire people who any given platform to basically pick arbitrary sets of them, that they want agree yeah, but that's the ball right.

A

So it's effectively what you do. Is you pass them to platform and say you support this? Yes, right once you, you know enumerate of all the platforms and you basic. You can basically grabbed.

J

Out of it well,.

A

Logically, there is a there's, a dag behind that, and so the question is: does this DAC logically or like you know physically agreed with the vid class and what will be pretty shitty is at the request.

E

This is why I thought it was gonna go before I saw the proposal was it was just we have the other issue. That's really controversial about how we detect for running on a stuff like that. So in.

A

The perfect world is any way we can betray. Just you know, embedded with graphs, I mean it makes no sense to bet the whole breadth, but look at is the one for the slides, you're running on right. So at least it agrees changes over time. It's not fixed right, yeah, shifting machine from yeah select. If the joopa changes what you up did. Is there anything it's.

E

Certainly possible, like you, we have the other library, the platform, detection, library. Listen, this been shipped sort of one side is nine corvex, that's what will give you the current running grid, but it doesn't have the hierarchy doesn't know about the hierarchies and stuff like that right, you haven't heard we've been getting in depth, but I, don't think he's expecting them to be.

A

We just lose degree.

C

Time here, okay.

A

So my persistent theme I see.

N

C

Was just saying.

N

I had a proposal for this scenario: no yeah.

A

So yeah I was not sure, like I think the way I understand Miguel proposing this is like he expects a thing to implement the API on his side right so like II, don't think he thinks. Oh, this is an auto plant.

N

Release, and so if we're just talking about adding constants could be useful, it has to start out about out of man right one-time.

E

Information is gonna, be out of ban or its implemented in each platform. Well,.

A

It depends on their site, but Eric I mean my understanding is from from a girl's point of view. They ship their stuff always with the app right. So they don't have much of a penalty, for you know just grabbing the platform, it's more for us where it's painful for framework and things vary the autopen to be nicer. But my point is that like because they they expect them to ship in box. I think they don't know if they don't.

A

It wouldn't have a technological constraints not being able to better with grabber, because they know it's the same thing. Yeah.

E

So doesn't doesn't mean that the rigor of degrees across all prop or platforms for overdress samurai.

A

Progressed there differently very well, I mean this this to side, but heavy heavy enforcement in the product that it's the same. Or do we even agree that it should be to say I mean when I talk to Miguel he didn't seem to care at all. If you also knew their packages and you use ribs and I, think look, you want the state to agree. Otherwise, it's like it's very hard to move them so right.

E

Now you can't even map all these two of it I mean see. I tell my inner Ridge there's not a matching grid for Houston. Well,.

D

As long as they are perfectly overlapping, so I think it doesn't need to be one-to-one mapping. So, for example, if one rate corresponds perfectly to three of those I think it's fine. What's not fine is if one rate straddles two or more of these.

E

Although there's the Lenox about probably about half of these are gonna fall back to the literature it which is a generic grid, because they don't have a specific rid themselves. Yeah.

D

Maybe I said it the other way, that's fine, as long as they are. Basically one is a superset of the other. Then it's fine, correct like if the spaces are divided, always on the same boundaries. Persons like you know you cannot ever tell where you are, because there is, and there ain't boundaries and they're always platform boundaries are not at the same place. Agree.

E

I, just don't know how he can see. There's even the red graph is completely.

J

Wash here, as far.

E

As what it really defines.

O

A

I think my matter concern is that I really wish we could. You know, get to the point where pound is, and you know, on one time. Checks are not completely different things where nothing makes sense, because that's today's well I don't know how to get there. I mean I, don't think the risk arrived and you get is particularly approachable, either a whole bunch of other problems, but I just I, don't know I, just don't feel like introducing it another thing that we then later on repair and find it. It's super hard.

D

To use and I may have to propensity, but so what would be useful is, if somebody put this all of this in a table and basically set for each of these. What is there it and, and are they like you know, are they matching meaning like there are no turrets in each of the columns paragraph.

E

Fashion accounts to other things, it's missing architecture and version. So I figure out how to map this, including versions and other pieces to correct bridge, but.

A

They are basically just I mean the way I see it is if you look at the red tag, basically, logically, like the version numbers are our sub components of that thing right so like. Basically, you would just make these two higher level know. They're always mapped these. On version wants to the Unversed in written. You know yes in symbols with any CPU and and in those guys right they will all go check the next to any CPU.

D

So another thing is: does me girl want this casing yeah well, I watch me.

A

I was like yes,.

D

A

Told me that you know Mac OS s girl with the lower kids, and personally I I I I don't care enough. Only on the other I just find it very alright. Look at these legs, yeah, I, don't and branding is weird I wanna have consistent. Api is then trying to trace the branding because Mike OS used to be called OS X right. Those guys renamed that this one is now specific.

D

It's the PC, you see there OS X, comment even says: OS X is basically all Apple.

A

This is next step.

D

No because it includes iOS, which is not next step.

A

L

The higher the higher or that, like you, know, Miguel wanted he wanted the same for for Knicks right, you know or UNIX or whatever we call it Linux and.

N

A

L

He talked about as well. He would like to add FreeBSD, which is not that he wants to handle the other details too. Yes, yeah, he said which are not Linux. So from that perspective people write the hierarchy of. Like you know, you have, you have a family of, like you know like the Mac, OS or OSX, and underneath there like an absurd like TV, OS, iOS and other things and the same for its UNIX system, but you know it can be Linux or it can be FreeBSD or something else, and you lucked.

L

It can be specific. You know this drug.

D

Yeah, so that would be kind of getting an explicit dag in the api's. But I kind of don't know how to like moderate its kind of as why wouldn't model the deck and.

A

If you're at what I would do is basically API shape, you have you pass in a platform, a gives you true or false. Yeah.

D

The thing is that you don't know in which order to answer the questions. Well, you know you have to kind of read talks. Well, you wouldn't have to, and you just pick the one that you care about well, but maybe you care about you know just in a very honorable, so first you or three in a group. You could ask the high-level question: are you even Apple platform? If not, then what were you? Definitely not? You know one of those three right.

A

I mean I think the API fails. If that is not intuitive, that's why I don't think it's necessary to one of the back like you should be able to look at those things and kind of like know that you know if I'm, if I'm.

N

A

For but that you run on, you know a unique style operating system. It should be like. Obviously, everything that is Linux related should answer yes for that as well right I mean like there's I'm, saying I. Think that there's this explicit graph I think we should. We should look at and then say like this is back. Make sense like do these answers, you know. Are they in correct, correct.

L

An awesome does it make sense, but you as a caller you're, not gonna, you're, not gonna, run dynamically, explore the graph just from the API you. You know it ahead of time, and you know what you want to ask you to ask em ironic on Linux or am I running on UNIX? Am I running on iOS there's just all sex yeah.

D

It was not my thing, as was not about dynamically, exploring the graph it's about the graph being obvious in the ideas. So today the graph is not obvious. You have two dogs to know what it is. I think.

A

The general guideline is, you would not only ask three things, but you would just ask the most specific question that you care about well. But what? If your program can deal with three specific things? Well, then there would be not in the same hierarchy, usually what you they are well, they would well, then you have to know because it depends.

D

On what differentiation you have yeah.

A

D

The scenario is not that I'm claiming I mean I. Think the solution to this problem is harder than the you know, trouble from eating dogs, but imagine that you're writing a reusable library and you can handle all of these scenarios unlikely, but yeah or, like you know, a large subset.

D

If you know the graph, you can much more cleanly and efficiently ask the questions. My.

A

D

B

It depends on what decision your.

A

Work, let's say you want to pee invoke API a versus API, be right. In that case, it's on you to figure in this Emily with those dogs.

A

They say you have to know which OS chips, API a versus API, be right, and then you just have to guard the call correctly right, and so you wouldn't care whether there is a family for Playstations, because you know, while the API ships and PlayStation Vita and play chips and PlayStation for us doesn't uncheck, you can only check out what you know on and then you just the rest is just yeah you give up like I mean that's like it. This I'm saying I think the family makes sense for things like.

A

Oh, you know when I render a pass on screen, should I use slashes or back slashes right and they then say: okay, we don't have path, dot separator. You would say well, if it's an Excel operating system, I use a slur, otherwise they use a backslash. And if it's a Mac related thing, you know a colon instead of a backslash right. You.

L

Can imagine that you have as well like you know, hey for you know, iOS has some specific API, which is fast and there's generic unix api, which is extremely slow, so I'm gonna fall back if I'm, not on iOS or right right and.

A

I think the problem there is that the particular.

L

Decisions, you are going.

A

To make have nothing to do with the repair, because you have to deal with what decision are you going to make with API a going and cognitive to consult those dogs to see what things need to check for it? You have to know basic, but in hurricane your mind.

P

You say, are you back to s, do you always say on iOS X or you could call them to the node.

P

P

Should you ask well.

A

That depends on the thing so, for example, mecco as they usually render pads, not some slashes. Let them see me call a book with :, so you would have to say well, yeah make a wet is giving separate some but I handled several day to present one to render it separately and then again, that is the main knowledge that you just have to have like it's like like we can help. You move the block you put under their chair because it's completely depending on what you're doing, but we can't help you with it's.

A

Like you know, given those strings, let me know which one to pick all right so.

P

When many would you choose the high level.

A

Say that general, when it's a you know if property of UNIX rather than so for example, you know that any UNIX support some version of politics right and I said: there's a super common POSIX API, you, alcohol and you know they don't mean the problem of UNIX. Is they don't generally agree non like ABI is right bit like let's say you know, there's a POSIX API everybody has to implement it.

Q

Support everywhere, the a bi-stable.

A

Whatever they, you just ask for that like something like that.

D

Where there is only one Windows platform there, this.

G

Is only Windows 10 now.

E

It should be controlled what version if you're hearing about the others.

A

I think those should be perfect. I think person should not be a thing here. Otherwise this thing will explode very badly.

Q

Q

Yeah we should perform yeah. We.

A

Provide everything that comes from.

Q

A

Q

Q

A

It is what they all like product names rights. Whatever them, you know, I mean Windows is a very generic one. There's.

P

A

You only have with it, but uh yeah, that's the other problem. I have this is because all marketing that might get obsolete but, for example, Mac OS and OS X area, like ideally unite analogy, would do it like this? What about Xbox 1, X, X, bone, X, yeah I, don't know.

D

H

The like you know, PlayStation: there are the different platforms for a Playstation 4 or portable too persistent Vita family.

H

hmm Oh that's something! I would like to poke.

A

At Mugello, but that's why it crystal I think we need to like basically map these and understand what the relationship is or the tired relationship is like, like looking at these three strings. I, don't know where they want superset of the other vectors playstation and maybe.

E

That's okay, yeah! Let.

A

Me say that might be fine, but I am.

E

We do need to have some sort of idea what.

R

They mapped it. What does it apply morning on this platform? Our district also, we said Windows doesn't conversions but playstation, as we were talking about. We should probably have.

L

R

Maybe the version should be removed, and you know Miguel might have some arguments why it should be there well. The next question will be okay, so now, how do I tell the version? How do I discover the version yeah.

D

That's a child. We have numerous issues, you have lots of experience. Designing IPs like this I think you're, the best person.

G

D

Fun, it's fun to design these.

I

L

From the community uwp, is it a lost platform or not, or is it windows I would think iOS.

A

Sorry I would treat you WP different from Windows different, maybe I said well because they're effectively again similar to imagine you're one I, always apps on my quest right there face of money.

D

One is universal, the other one is not, and.

A

The universal one is the subset of the other.

D

Well, that's what Universal usually always comment condom come on denominator makes total sense, I.

L

Have I have a feeling that you're not gonna, be able to close on the exact hierarchy to.

A

Know like my goal here was also not to be I was mostly like getting a list of things. I think need to follow up. I, don't think it's completely enough! Well,.

E

Yeah there's more details in unit, but one of the other things I think is being Gallo's. Assuming is that eyes are gonna, become a part of not done that standard which they won't become part of a dot. That standard do we have another version remind.

A

Me again what happened information we shipped it as part of my Center, but it does not okay. So that means really.

E

Public api's have to be neckwear only or they can have the same or not only to saying.

D

That, by the time it's in that standard, all these platforms will be obsolete. Yes,.

B

D

Will need the sake.

D

The quintessential chicken and egg problem.

E

um Yeah, you really need him for about us dinner libraries, but he can't have it.

L

Question was about a uwp and like different platforms. It runs on and my big friend Justin, because vwp is present as well on xbox. So if the windows we have Xbox egwp can be in both of them. Yes,.

B

L

Acc, so would you return, would you return true, for you know if your Nakano WP windows be return true for Windows as well, if you're running on a Windows platform and you're running instead of wrap container, and you ask a UWPD.

A

Answer is yes, how.

L

Do you feel, sir, my windows.

A

You know if you're in.

L

My windows, yeah.

A

It's also true: it's investigating what basically say well, windows will be the superclass with both of them and maybe there's a different entry for I, don't know win32 or whatever Centennial whatever you want to call this, like the fully trusted exosphere visit kind of do.

E

This it's very hard to make it any judgment well, which is which there, because I would expect Windows to be. You know we understand. I can access all the PMO up. All the api's you didn't know not so much yeah.

A

E

Week, there's a lot similar confusion between.

A

What, but that is what I said: I got me that that's the thing: we need to figure out what the sensible hierarchy is about. It's intuitive, alright, I think from a customer standpoint. It makes sense to say we losses imply a superset because I don't know how to recall the the thing that unifies because VPN with the.

E

Primary purpose of these API is: can I pin broke into the source? Can these always ApS present so in that, since I wouldn't think you WPA wonders should be returning sure to say probably not the time, meaning working? Okay.

M

But how would you then, what depends right like I mean.

A

Well, fundamentally like that there is no super-sensitive relationship.

A

Sorry right, but there is a common subset that both share yeah publish number one. Is you don't expose it so it? Basically you either windows or UW people to hear the polls always say. Well, there is a combination, maybe they'll be more I, don't know about, they will craft us today. I think they would crafted a I believe in error can be correct, but I think wind is basically.

S

Everything and then there's we also also.

C

Say, there's a sort of an implicit assumption that if you're not Windows, you're Unix, if we were to make window, is you know, windows return false, but not on a UNIX system that might start causing problems.

G

This whole section set of stuff is messy, but.

D

As I say, yes, so much so many experiences how you can design perfect.

T

Enthalpy on Xbox Windows 10 as there there are way too many different constraints scenarios that cover that's. Why I showed us yeah where.

D

Did you add this smiley face at the end I you.

I

A

Deleted so so I think the problem is I mean I talked with me, get briefly, like you pointed out. One thing which are bias like: let's not have perfect, be the enemy of the good. Here, let's try to model more the platform, so you can write sensible checks without having to solve world hunger, but I do think.

A

We should think about what the what the experience this and then has a separate discussion of like maybe we should bought because I think it is a mess right now on like if you're trying to do one time light up, it's it's virtually impossible allowed doing some crazy stuff like.

P

A

Would not I mean I fundamentally, I would just say that the marketing department of some company decides that markets, which is now called blue bar, and, like tough luck, you decided to rename it well.

D

Also, it could mean that, probably if they release a new switch and name it, it's gonna be a different platform, so we're gonna add a new constants which will mean the switch from 2008. You know 18 well,.

E

This is why there's something called playstation4: it's completely different platforms and PlayStation pushing three years. Now. It's not really a rubbish revision. It's a new.

A

Q

Kids version that must be okay. If it's it.

B

A

Yeah I, don't know, I mean the whole point of this type is to ask the question what you're running on right this this table is, will always be a history book answer. That's right, I, don't think that's necessarily default. So what are those constants.

D

Are they members on some type and that's always platform, have any other members? What is basically strata that is glorified in ER right.

A

Okay, so it doesn't.

D

A

Has like you know, operating so.

D

There is no I mean you know, piling new members in a type that also has some other API is that would be kind of. Let's.

M

Go we designed our start from deliberately.

E

To that yeah we designed such that you can not have to have a constant stream.

E

D

E

T

Testing you, if you remember, then.

D

You don't know, I was talking about two different things: I remember the design I think not the design result. So.

A

Then that's leave that, as is.

A

Good call forgot about that. We should do so now. We have 20 minutes left, that's either we should remove wood back to API Network right, yeah, I, just yeah I want to make it clear, though, that we don't push it back to Miguel and say in come back to a better proposal, because some of the stuff is thinking that you have to do. I thought this me I also sign it to someone that that's true, but everybody I just have one avoid the middle finger going.

A

So the one thing that so, thanks to my amazing telemetry forces awesome yesterday, we will have something that you want: telemetry or telepathy. Oh yeah same thing really same.

B

Thing we're sending telemetry.

A

Which helped him to.

A

Which you know this is useless, I have to say I. How do you collapse it's? The answer? Is you don't.

D

Copy and paste into a notepad.

I

Exactly legacy nobody's fast.

B

A

All right so Steven brought up this point that we added a bunch of api's piecemeal to support. You know expand of teen friend and we approved them all in isolation, but we have never really looked at the whole dis and, thankfully hasn't already did it pass of. You know what what looks odd, and it's probably is that everything you just happen to find or do you think that is the finalists.

P

Everything for system everything, but this would.

P

A

I think see the most also talking about, like all the other hopeful, don't study edit outside of system and.

D

Also in the other overload, so I didn't do like a pass through all the api's, but I've been looking at the PRS and they usually would opt into being consistent with the existing ideas. Like all the new overloads across the framework, I mean they are just overloads, they're solid, an awful about the Tech Center a and like I know, Steve was doing a lot of this work and he just chose to be consistent with the metal. The Tori existed on this time, which I think is that I chose.

C

There are a few cases where I didn't and I probably should have like, with string or with stream rather read and write async. We had talked about baking them source and destination. So that's what they are currently but the existing over those just use buffer, and so like that's one of those things, should we go back and rename all those parameters to just be buffer.

D

Well, when you read the destiny, the parameter is called destination. When you write it's called source.

A

Then, let's do this: let's just walk the list. You probably will not be able to finish and you're gonna Christopher I need to run it 11g. What we have, instead of another home only to our pass over there over.

J

There, over the actual disk.

E

A

Actually catch the other editions do.

E

You think it's worth the I know you want to focus on spam, but do you think it's worth just pass over the entire to one, of course, yeah.

M

We should do.

E

That but I just don't do it.

B

E

Just this panic, because entire day between two orgy.

A

I would finish.

E

A

First and then I would do the remaining I think we should go with the whole thing wholesale. So.

D

Here I already see one thing like, for example, s bytes. The parameter is called source that doesn't make a lot of sense. I.

U

D

Source destination terminology only makes sense if you have to.

U

A

Think sources typical problem of extension methods, because that word link uses everywhere.

D

So span, if we cannot come up with a better name, I think span is okay, it's or a bit like. Well, we couldn't come up with an ID. So yes, so maybe it's okay! Unfortunately,.

A

What else do you mean I mean like paid you spend like? They all mean. You only have one. Maybe.

D

It's maybe it's. Okay,.

P

Streamers, any of tyranny.

D

P

D

You say Oh instead of values. Whoa, yes, I think there is on this, because the string API is a kind of you know, based on existing API.

O

D

Any of makes it frankly more explicit, because index of values may mean all these values in the exact sequence or any of the math I see I, see yeah yeah right, yeah.

A

So the fair to say, then, let's rename it to match the other eye here and you.

D

Know I'm not I'm, not completely confused, because.

U

D

Got a good point like any: it's already part of the method name.

A

Sure, like ignoring that, like we care about consistency, cause I mean this API new is usually on string forever. All right.

D

Yeah renaming this one to any off would have other ripple effect that would become not consistent with other things so as effectively and.

A

Alright, then, let's leave it at this, but.

D

I would rename so one thing: let's rename that, like there was sort some incorrect yeah.

A

D

Want one by one yeah the decision so okay, so this one which I believe is this: what about this one here, the name source to span.

J

I think that works.

D

Yeah, the third one and this one is I'm on the fence on assassination. Okay, there's! No sorry, oh you mean renamed array to to source sure.

M

Right on my own.

P

That's what really- and we have great he has spent over.

P

It most places we use destination for coffee, but I feel like read, copy, be a missionary, so.

A

I wouldn't meet unless I mean on a given API, when you only have one time unless you have overloads, and even if you have overloads I, wouldn't care I would just say you know. The type is already telling you want you to body. Putting it into. I was just designate the role at the time. It seems very rigid, repeat the type name yeah, but I was to probably call arrays source, because if it broke it as an extension, that's it boy. You see the parameter.

A

If you invoke it as a an instance method, then you're down, but then it also doesn't hurt to rename it.

P

B

What was the question I.

P

M

Think we have that many awesome should instance that thing most of them come from the I collection. Most of those I was a mutable list.

E

Has one was copy to, for this is an are a.

E

Copy to analyze, one parameter, which is the array that doesn't have this appreciate it didn't call this and I, should just call it array.

A

A

Yeah you'll see you just index with all-star she's, also.

G

A

B

A

B

A

The static help us an array I think just do index on.

M

This please work, maybe because.

E

They keep confusing, so stream meeting right should have offset account. That's doesn't named.

P

D

Yeah but you're creating a memory which has a property called con length.

P

A

You just browsing array, it looks like almost everything is called start index or source index for the copy of this was the next destination. Perfect I.

D

Think this one is fine on.

U

The other hand, the next one. How did you.

D

Want to keep it started when environment.

U

Starting it start the.

A

One you wanna, keep it start or you wanna say starting next, because that'll be long. I.

D

Don't care about this one you guys either of them is fine, but I I worried that we have started many many places or.

P

Again I say almost it's all in it: yeah.

E

Alright, so race segment, I, think you said as offset list of T has offset in count as well. Alright, sorry, it hasn't, but.

P

E

Just trying to look at other presidents.

A

Where we have to go, there's not my concern will be more once the ad range we may find ourselves having overloads and then it would be kind of nice it with a line. What the range like and a thing on range, we will probably call it both start.

Q

E

Of T has a give range, has index and count.

D

It's fine, let's move on I would like I would fix things that are like really bad. At this point, I we are polishing the rock number five. On the other hand, it's really bad span and body well, they're both values, and they are both fans.

D

They should, it probably should be called either first and second or left and right yeah. We should not use a B.

P

A

P

The naming convention.

A

On primitive types is usually part like a specially on string like they like I'm surprised, they spin four characters on it because some of them others, we just ask.

I

A

S

I can go left right, I can go for. Second, I can go if we expect the majority usage.

C

Of this, though, to be as if it was an instance method, it's a little strange to like say you know something dot compared to, and then the only argument is called second or right. Oh yeah,.

D

mmm That's actually a good point. I.

A

Think for equals. You probably called the argument you're passing other most of the time.

O

D

Know because those are operators, so you never call them as methods and then we should cover. We should have that convention and called the first parameter. This yeah don't show how this could ever break. We just would need to use the escape and % simple sure.

U

Nothing percent.

D

Whatever yet yeah.

U

D

Mean it would work.

P

A

People will be like what the heck called me.

D

So sequence, equal has basically this problem that Steve mentioned you basically call full sequence. Equal second.

D

E

Looking at other examples, no I'm looking at stream, compare for example, whereas the district.

I

Meeting is over in five minutes by there for.

E

A second seems: fine, I I.

I

E

Think it really does depend on I would expect people usually if they expect them to use a sensor method. Only that's that's one pattern that works better. We expect them to be using as a static method, but.

D

In fact, what, if extension method, ninety-five percent of the time for 99.

I

A

D

Source implies code or it's not like transformation. This is just a comparison. There is no source.

A

Original or vision ran other.

D

Don't we already have NP ice like this yeah.

F

When we do the other.

D

So I think that we should choose either between first and second or left and right or stick with span and value. Those are the only choices because other ones I don't think they have benefits. They have just new words that you invent, but they have exactly same trade-offs, so span and value works kind of best. If you treat it as an instance method correct, because you only see value compared to value well come actually.

D

No, no actually I would only like instanceid ice called this other thing other so like equal has you know it calls it other, but all's.

E

Horrible today, the message for value.

U

Charge at you, how about you well.

D

M

U

D

A Zima said not to take the primitive types, but.

A

All right, so we have the following choice of your years of my official definition. Other that's the eCos, but it's not fair to doesn't matter. You compare it to something else. Other.

J

Because I politic pair, it takes two instances so X and every second there's no like this another yeah all right. Those are the I.

A

Think choices I go with the third and it proposes we use original source or span the left-hand side. First to me and other whatever.

D

It's a puzzle when you like puzzles, you should like think about it offline because, like you see like this piece doesn't fit if we name it this and I cheat in color some of the existing dishes. I come a different meeting. I, don't know where sit. You want me to tell you where you're meeting this. Yes.

A

D

It on my calendar, let me to the thread but I: don't actually have the medium 25 to 5 0, 1, 5, 0, 1, I'm, pretty sure it's there in the frosted glass room.

A

Frosted, glass, okay, so we have one more before after one sequence: equal for a second spend another man.

I

J

D

O

D

Time that one this segment, if it's our excitement, is called segment.

P

A

Hit darling code, the type again tried it today, segment.

M

Great, we call it what memory and segment true.

J

That's because of the bite part that did you consider a track and Ray overlooked. The tapes.

J

Or you just relying on implicit canary because it's not an exception.

J

B

Right copy to what did you say.

D

Except it's a dis parameter but may be fine I think.

A

It, as we said earlier, source and destination already had I think there.

M

Was a belief, the source.

E

Of definitely kind of work, foreigners, yeah.

M

D

Right value, the not right right there value why he.

A

Said in my head and repelled you all right, sweet, so they'll have another two-hour pass over there. This is have to happen this week, or is this something we can do next week, Oh better I'm.

D

Pretty sure so this is parameter names, it's totally, not breaking so I think we can. It is break.

L

From preview, yes, but you know.

I

L

Weeks in the API freeze already for two point one, so it is hearing everything and he'll worry like.

A

I can set up holy, something towards the speaker. Forget it room like the truth is a bigger problem in.

D

The the like cold paths of all changes if ap is dead when it's a bit more scary, that's.

A

Why I'm saying this one this one is like, given the speed we just had I think there's only nine more items. We should be able to be done in like the oven or which gives us one and a half hours to actually do the scary thing.

D

This one, we should be done five minutes now that we establish that.

J

I

A

Guys online and I see you later.