DXdao DXbiz Weekly Gathering, 27 Jun 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: DXbiz Weekly Gathering [2022-06-27]

Description

00:03 Welcome & Agenda
01:10 Orbis.club Presentation
38:00 DAO NY Roundup (NFT NY)
57:54 ETH CC (Paris)

A

Hello and welcome uh to the dxo business call for monday. Why doesn't the day shop? What was it monday 27th of june 2022 um yeah on the agenda? We don't have any new members introduction introducing. We do have a gusto on the call which is, like you know, a rare occasion um and they're exploring. We have yeah. Thank you for uh applause um under uh exploring we have orbis who are going to present us um under the express discussions.

A

We have a bunch of people who came back from uh nyc crypto week um with a few conferences and a few insights um and yeah a bit of awareness about. You know the style using.

B

A

And ipfs, I think, like uh maybe I'll, touch on this I'll touch on this one when we get to it um but yeah. That's that and then uh some of the folks going to ecc um in two weeks I think and like planning on going for hacker soul in bogota, um so yeah do you want to get started baptiste uh you guys can have the stage sure.

C

Amazing yeah, thank you, so maybe I can give a quick uh intro about orbeez and then talk about our like upcoming launch to mainnet, but so, basically what we are doing with orbeez is so we launched uh the very first version in december last year and basically, what we're trying to do is you know, build a sort of very performance, decentralized social protocol uh and because we don't think that you know blockchains are performant enough to build. You know very low, latency social experiences.

C

We decided to build on something new and different, which is ceramic all right. So maybe I can share my screen a bit. Let me see how it works. Okay, cool! Can you see my screen yep cool? So basically, this is the very. This is what orbeez looks like right now so, like you can see that they're all like it's a sort of like mix between right now, it's sort of mixed between like a twitter, feed and sort of discord groups.

C

But so basically the cool thing is that everything being shared on orbeez right now is a unique ceramic stream right.

C

So ceramic streams or sort of like you know, blockchain ash transaction ashes, but instead of you know it being like, like computation of a smart contract, it's actually every stream owns a specific json file right and the json file can be standardized with schemas, which is something that developers can use to make sure that every you know kind of data looks the same sort of like erc721s and erc20s, and because everything is on ceramic, the right times are super fast right.

C

So if I want to light this post, this light action is going to take a few hundreds of milliseconds and you don't have to sign any any message, because the action is not being performed from your wallet, but it's being performed from your ceramic decentralized identity, which is created with your wallet right. So when I joined orbeez, I joined with my ethereum wallet. My ethereum wallet basically created a ceramic identity, and then this ceramic identity is being used to perform all of those right actions right.

C

So every reaction every profile, every post is a ceramic stream and can be accessed by anyone once you know the stream id right, so that was the very the very first version of orbeez. The issue that we add is that, because ceramic is so new, you don't necessarily have the same tooling that you have on top of blockchains right right now, if you, if you're, building something on top of a blockchain, it's super easy to query it.

C

You can use the graph, for example, and very easily build a sub graph to know exactly what's happening with your smart contracts, and you have very you know well done explorer, such as eaterscan or other competitors, but because ceramic is so new when we started there wasn't necessarily um all of us tooling. So big orbeez was still a fully decentralized app, but it wasn't open to external developers which didn't necessarily make it look like a fully decentralized social protocol. But this is basically what we are working on for our lunch or launch on mainnet.

C

So one issue that we solved is that I was saying that everything being shared on orbeez is a unique ceramic stream. But if you don't know this exact stream ideas for all of the posts, you can you can't reconstruct the feed right. If I give you exactly the stream id, which is this thing for the pos that I shared earlier, you are going to be able to know exactly the content that they shared.

C

But if you don't know the stream ids, you can't, you can be aware of all of the posts that my decentralized identity shared and so basically, we've been working. You know during the past month the past two months to be able to index, and you know be aware of everything that was happening on ceramic, so that so we built this decentralized, this explorer for ceramic, which is basically connected directly to the ceramic network, and it's recording all of the streams that are being created and you can explore it right now.

C

But the very cool thing is that, because we bought it because we built this if a developer is creating some orbeez content using another website as orbeez we are not going to our indexing system is not going to be aware of it right, whereas before it was impossible- and so this is going to, you know, unlock the new phase of orbeez, which is going to happen around july.

C

When we are going to launch on mainnet, where basically we are, we will be sharing the orbeez sdk that we are using to power the orbeez application and any developer is going to be able to use it above to create specific orbeez content right.

C

So developers are going to be able are going to be able to query super simple functions: to create a new post, create a new profile, or you know like a specific piece of content that was created, but are also going to be able to query all of the content that is being shared on orbis right. So once we launch on mainnet and we open this orbis sdk again, it's going to happen in july, any developers is going to be able to build on top of orbeez and they are going to.

C

You know, be able to build things such as you know just replicate this like social feed experience, but you're also going to be able to build other stuff, such as you know, decentralized, encrypted messages. It is something it's something that is already available on orbis and that works right now, but we one thing that we also want to explore.

C

You know people building, you know decentralized discourse forums, for example where, instead of having all of the governance proposals be stored in a centralized database, everything could be stored on ceramic right so that people can publicly verify they can make sure that a specific identity shared something and that the email hasn't been hacked.

C

Or things like this, so that's going to happen in in december and part of the launch is going to be above the migration to mainnet, because technically orbis is still running on the ceramic test net right now and the launch of the sdk and the sort of new user experience. That will be that we launched.

A

Yeah super cool. Wait. Are you sorry about this? Are you done.

C

A

C

Maybe you have any, I just wanted to make sure to leave some time for some questions.

A

Yeah anyone has any questions I mean this is. I think this is super interesting. um I think all the way back in the days of dao stack, we were talking about using back. Then it was three bucks for sort of like the profiling system within the dao um and figuring out how to back then we used. um What's it called, was like a reply thing called like uh discourses or something.

B

A

Yeah discuss yeah, which is like the most broken thing ever. uh Oh.

B

Yeah omen omen. You use that or uses that in the in the the.

C

B

And stuff yeah, three bucks: oh.

C

A

Yeah and so like this is super interesting and I think.

A

C

A

C

Give me one minute: I can give a sort of very, very early preview of what so this is like a very, very early preview of what the mainnet experience is going to look like, but I just want to share this. To show you a quick sharing something on ceramic. Is you know so here, for example, I logged in with my identity to logged in, I just add two, so I can try to do it again right so to connect. Basically, I just sign a message here right. So this is like a simple.

C

You know, ethereum message that ceramic gets you to sign once you sign it, it generates a deed which is your ceramic identity on ceramic, and then you once you have your did connected, you can actually write content right. So, for example, if I share pressure this here, you can see how quickly it is like that no like, when you see like the content, has been actually shared, and if you go back to the explorer here, you can see so this is me, like you can say that you can see what the the content.

B

C

Shared like almost immediately there wasn't any transaction fees and there wasn't any um any metamask pop-up right. So that's a very cool thing is that you can actually build like very, very performant, decentralized, um social applications on top of ceramic and not only social, but the social part is really what orbis is focusing on.

C

So you can have a very similar experience to what web 2 can offer, but in a fully decentralized way and fully composable right, because, as I was saying before, like you know, user developers can build like on top of orbeez and they can be like classic social apps, but they can really build anything that they want right.

C

If someone wanted to build a sort of, like you know, decentralized, intercom competitor or to have you know like a chat box to chat with a support channel when you're deleting like an nft marketplace or whatever like this, could be bought on top of orbeez, for example, and we are making it super easy using the using the sdk. But that's what's super exciting about ceramic.

C

I think is that for sort of applications that require a lot of data usage and very performant way, I think it's really going to be the network that is going to to take off and offer the same kind of you know composibility that we had with dfi or nft, but um but in a you know, you know in a social in a social way, so you can have like lego bricks.

D

How persistent the data is, I mean how much how how much time is going to be.

C

So basically, this on the ceramic network, you have any, you can like anyone can run a nod right. So for now like test the clay, just uh the test net network is like fully open to everyone. I think that mainnet nods needs to be like whitelisted by sir ceramic for now, but this is not going to last for long and basically, what you need on ceramic is you need to make sure that you're not exhausting the data and for now there isn't any there isn't any.

C

You know: incentives for other nodes to index your own content right. So, for example, let's say that you know orbeez is going to run or on main net node for on ceramic and basically, if only the orbis node is hosting orbeez content and at some point we decide to kill the orb is not, then the content from orbeez is going to disappear, but the cool thing about ceramic is that anyone could decide, in a permission, permissionless way to say: okay, I'm going to run a nod to archive all of the content from orbeez.

C

I know that personally we're going to have you know a few nodes doing it maybe, like you know, five, for example, five nodes archiving all of the orbis content and then in the future there is probably going to be incentives, for you know other ceramic nodes to discover and store your own content. So once you have this kind of network effect, then the data can live forever. um But if no one is asking your content, basically it dies.

C

You know which is also sort of like a feature, because if you know a piece of content is not being queried by anyone like maybe it's, you know losing some space in an empty in an empty nod, but um but that's really how it's going to work.

A

Yeah, so very cool, but this like how do you see this um like in relation to sort of like lens protocol, which I guess has like many similarities and many like differences? But you know how do you see.

C

Yeah, so I think so the vision is fairly similar right. We both want to create, like decentralized social graph. I think that we made some very different technical choices right.

C

They decided to build lands on top of polygon, which was the very first iteration, the very first proof of concept that we bought with orbeez, but I ended up not really thinking, because I thought that you know the user experience of having users sign a message for every action that they take is a very bad user experience, and I want web research if we want web research all to take up and to be adopted by you know hundreds of millions of people. You need a very similar expert.

C

You need to give users a very similar experience. What to can offer. So that's why I think ceramic is a way better architecture, and the other reason is that if you build on top of a blockchain such as polygon, for example, you need everyone to be using polygon for to. You know to grow your audience, whereas if you build something on top of ceramic because your ceramic identity can be created with any type of wallet right, you could have users join orbeez with an ethereum wallet.

C

Other users join orbeez with their polygon wallet or with their solana, wallet or polka, dot or cosmos wallet, and so you can have this fully cross-chain experience with people joining orbis with different types of providers, which are really different type of wallets, but still everyone will be communicating together using the same network right.

C

So a stream created on ceramic from a decentralized identity that was created with solana is going to look to be exactly the same as another stream created with an ethereum user, and I think that's super powerful right, because if you want to onboard like tens of millions and hundreds of millions of people, I don't think that you can constrain to not focusing only on one chain, especially like even you couldn't even reach the world crypto space and the whole crypto space is fairly small right now. So, like I think, that's a big blogger.

C

So basically, the reasons why we pick ceramic or it's much more performant than a blockchain. It's free to use right there if there aren't in transaction fees to use ceramic, which I think is super important and you can have this crush chain experience which, which is not possible. If you pull something on top of polygon.

A

Yeah, I mean very cool, I think, at the end of the day. Technically, this is not using a blockchain right, it's just using exactly you know it's using the.

C

Decentralized data.

A

Network yeah yeah, I mean usually like uh you, know the private public key that we use in ethereum and probably like other blockchains and then um yeah ceramic, which is like a. I guess, like a decentralized.

C

A

Network in a way.

C

B

Yeah, it is ceramic dependent on ipfs right ceramic is behind. Ceramic is ipfs right.

C

Exactly yeah, so every every stream on ceramic can be built with different comments right. So, for example, let's say that I share, I create a new post, it's going to create a new stream and this stream is going to have one comment, and this comment is basically going to be representing an ipfs ash which asked the actual content, and then let's say that I shared a pass, but now I want to update it so by updating the post.

C

I create a new comment to this previous stream id, and this new comment is going to be the new ipfs hash, but the stream id is not going to point to the latest version of the comment. So every comments or ipfs. So it's this sort of, like you, know, super powerful layer on top of apfs. That gives you know the ability to have versioning to have. You know a classic naming system with the stream ids and also to have this decentralized identity layer which you don't have on top when you don't have.

C

When you talk about when you're build on top of ipfs.

B

Yeah so baptisto, but so you this is interesting, because this is like you know. It's happened in the ethereum world, but or you know in the blockchain world, where you have like lego blocks and so orbis is building on top of ceramic and ceramic is building on top of ipfs. Yet ipfs is still this foundational layer. That is basically run by like charitable people in the space that do this for free, which doesn't seem and gxdxl already, we use ipfs and we are dependent on our for our products but like in the long run.

B

If it's, if there's no like at the at the base layer, if it's not financially incentivized and like guarantee that it's going to be there, it seems risky to build. On top of that is the is the long-term plan that, like eventually ipfs is in? Is you leverage file coin or some incentivized version of it as well?.

C

So I think so that would be a question for ceramic, I think, and not necessarily for orbeez. The way ceramic work is basically it is, it will incentivize, you know the fact, the fact of building on top of ipfs, and especially us thinking about content right, so the the raw experience of using ipfs as a developer has been very frustrating for me. So when I want to just push like a piece of content such as an image, an image, for example, let's say that you upload a profile picture to orbis.

C

uh I want it to be decentralized, so I'm not going to be using ipfs, I'm going to be using rwiv for this, which offers a very uh best a better user experience versus ipfs, but for ceramic is different right. The eyepiece ipfs layer is just going to it's just being used to represent the actual. You know, storage of the data and give nods the ability to file to find content and to host it on the node. But it's really it's sort of like independent from the network itself.

C

Right, like you, when you, when you build on top of ceramic, you don't even play with like the ashes itself right. Everything like ceramic removed, every the all of the issues for it and the big issues when you build on top of ipfs is that you know pushing some content to ipfs is not necessarily trivial. You need to be running your own locally, etc.

C

Then retrieving content from ipfs or you know just finding some content that was shared by other users is super, like you can't necessarily do it very not any way to like organize this data, but with ceramic it makes it possible right. So it's sort of like this very smart implementation, built on top of ipfs. That kind of solves for me, at least as a developer of the problem that you can have when you build on top of like ipfs as a raw experience.

C

So I don't think that it's going to be an issue in the future, but maybe I think that they could live like if they wanted to leverage other type of networks such as, maybe all wave or ficon. Maybe technically it would be possible, but that would be a question for ceramic. I think.

B

Okay yeah, so I yeah, I understand the ceramic making your developer experience life easier but like if ceramic is built on top of ipfs, unless I'm missing something how it's technically working like. If you know if, if, if ipfs isn't as solid as we think like, it's also a risk that ceramic is dependent on ipfs. Basically,.

C

Yeah, I think that would yeah. That would be a better question for them.

A

I mean like the way I kind of see this unfolding right is that just like you have uh kind of like in web 2, you have uh like um managed services like that, could also be the case here or like where you know you're using let's say orbis and you want someone. You know to make sure that your content is is, you know, stayed pinned, maybe on ipfs, maybe on file coin. Maybe on? Are we and you just pay for it? And then you know sort of like your data leaves forever um yeah.

A

E

I think the the way of looking at it is that, like ipfs, is more the technology you're building other stuff. On top of it's not like this, it's not the same as ethereum, where you have the incentive and all the economic stuff built into that. It's maybe more of a like a base. Technology like you can build other stuff on top of it like it's as secure as you make it. If you incentivize 10 people by giving them ten dollars every month to get your data, then it's as good as anything else.

E

um Yeah ipfs isn't like uh the fact that it's not natively incentivized isn't really a problem. It's more just like something that needs a another solution built on top of it.

F

uh How how about like protocol versioning and like compatibility like? Is it possible that somehow ipfs changes that ceramic is incompatible with it.

C

Well, I don't think so at this point it could probably be a question of again. That would be a better question for ceramic, uh but I guess, like you could still like. You know, decide to stay on the previous version and I have up long as long as every nodes are on the version that was working. I think that would be. That would be fine, but that would be a better question for them.

D

In case that happens, orbeez can fork ipfs and use their own ipfs version right.

C

So I think it would be ceramic forking, their ipfs.

B

C

Yeah exactly and yeah, I don't see why it would be an issue but yeah technically. I think that's something that could happen if there was an update that would make like ceramic nuts like not working anymore uh but yeah. I'm not sure about that. Yeah.

E

Ibfs has already had multiple versions: anyways right, there's two versions of uh hashes right, there's, v0 and v1, so yeah yeah yeah. I guess it's not.

D

D

Do you know if, if this this uses public subscription in the end on on ceramic or do you use public subscription at all on ipfs to index something extra on your own.

C

So yeah, that's what I use! That's what I use to be aware of all of the yeah, all of the stream ids that are created on ceramic yeah.

D

Exactly yeah yeah yeah, that's the backbone of yeah, discovering content awesome. Yes,.

C

Yeah exactly which is super useful right, so they have like those two topics that you can subscribe to for mainnet and testnet.

E

Yeah, so the we actually, we kind of tried doing this ourselves a little bit. Oh yeah, yeah, well kind of yeah, so, like this government, the governance application we wanted it was. The initial thing would be like mostly a forum.

E

I was talking to about decent about this earlier um and, like there's a lot more stuff, we want to do beyond just a typical forum, but you know like governance, social stuff, um and so we were originally trying it with um ceramic and then using orbit dp to uh to keep it ready straight, but yeah it's like it's kind of uh complex and so yeah. If we can use harvest, I think it could be a pretty cool solution. Yeah.

C

Yeah, basically, that's how I see it. I think so. This is going to be an issue for like many developers. I think to have like this very strong, like this was very efficient like query times to to query sub graphs and at some point the graph, for example, is going to support ceramic as long as they don't do it. We kind of need to offer this service to developers or ourselves to you, know, get the get the network effect growing, but so, basically, what I like is that you know orbeez as a company.

C

We can kind of like offer this like querying service to developers, building on top of orbeez, where we can give them access to all of the uh to all of the orbeez fast or reactions or groups um or decentralized messages that have been.

C

You know identified on the network, but at some point, if the developers don't necessarily trust the um the orbeez querying system, they can build their own thing and keep on using the orbeez protocol by building you know, streams using our schemas and and this sort of thing, which I think is a super cool experience, was initially. I think most developers are going to be using our own querying system, because that would be a lot of work to actually build it yourself.

C

But if someone wanted to go very deep, they could do it themselves and I think that's about something super exciting.

E

Yeah yeah, that's yeah! Even that, like the way of building things, I think is quite similar to how we approach things. That could be a very good match for yeah. You know not wanting people to be relying on jake's, though not wanting people to be relying on arvis yeah, exactly yeah.

A

So I have a question like, what's sort of like the value capture models of so like orbeez as like moving forward. Have you thought of this or is sort of like the goal right now, just to.

C

Yeah so the way, the way I view it is that no so using orbeez is going to be free. You should have transaction fees for people to react on something or to pass something. I think that at some point you know we don't necessarily want to rush it.

C

Our main, you know priority is to focus on user adoption and product market feed, but at some point I think it could make sense for orbeez to have its own governance model and the way this governance model would work is basically it would govern the schemas that orbis is using as a protocol right and those schemas are extremely important because you know, for example, uh when you send a decentralized message to someone using orbeez. Maybe I can share my screen again. Give me a minute to show it. Basically, you know I was so on orbeez.

C

We wanted to have this experience where you could dm something to someone right and so, but when you dm something you want it to be decentralized, because you don't necessarily want a centralized entity. Let me let me share my screen again yeah. So, basically, when you, you know, when you dm someone, you don't want to have only one company be able to like own this data, even if it's encrypted, because that means that if you leave your application, you're kind of going to you know leave all of your decentralized message away.

C

So we wanted to bolt this within orbeez, but we, if everything is decentralized, you still don't want those direct messages to be no readable for everyone. So the way it works is that every dm that I send that you send. So this is like this user here send a dm to another user, and this dm in ceramic looks like this right. So is this encrypted content that only two? Only those two addresses here and here can actually decrypt right and all of the other people.

C

Reading the strings are not going to be able to decrypt it and the way it works is basically it's built on something. That's named lit protocol, which is a sort of decentralized encryption system that is super useful for this kind of applications, and but- and so this is embedded within our schemas right. So the schema for this string for this type of stream, for example, would be that each encrypted message object needs to have an encrypted string, object and stripple encrypted symmetry key and the access control condition. That should follow this specific structure.

C

But if, at some point maybe you know in a few years, lit might have a competitor right and this competitor might want to be integrated in orbeez, because if at some point we have tens of millions of users and a huge volume of this direct messages being exchanged using the protocol, that would create a lot of value for them. If there was actually like some. You know um if the if the messages were encrypted using verb protocol and not with the protocol for anymore.

C

So this protocol might want to push an update to our schema, to be able to support this new encryption system, and that would be made using governance right, which is, I think, the thing that is going to you know give value to the world like governance concept for orbeez is that by governing the by governing the schema, you can kind of allow like new integration to the protocol. You can also, although at some point um decentralized, moderation right, I think that to have you know safe and usable social network experience.

C

You need to have some sort of moderation just to at least to remove spams and some sort of like illegal content in some countries, but the to do moderation. You don't want one company to do it. Otherwise that creates, but some centralized issue that we have today, so moderation being done via decentralized governance is something that we would explore at some point. So it's probably the value is probably going to the capture. Value is probably going to come from.

C

You know running our, you know, upgrading the schema via governance and probably via decentralized content, moderation as well, but also maybe by you know so, because orbeez is going to be fully decentralized. We the way to access orbeez data, isn't necessarily going to be only via the orbis website domain right.

C

There will be like tens or I mean hundreds of different ui for it, but we suspect that if we build like good user experience to for to run our on protocol, we might have a lot of users that end up using our own product and that's probably something that you can monetize as well right. So, for example, on all these, not every users they can join and use their verified nft as your profile picture, and sometimes you will see someone joining with a new pfp that you like a lot and you will want.

C

You will be wondering from which collection it is, and so you know it isn't a very big gap in saying okay, instead of just looking at those nfts, maybe you can also buy them within orbeez and orbeez could get a commission out of this. So you offer a new service to users, but you can also get a cut out of these, so I think you can monetize both at the protocol level and at the front level, but those are things that we're not necessarily like fully thinking about right now.

F

Do you think that tech is ready for like talking gated channels or talking gated community yeah.

C

Yeah that works already, so we have the system using elite, for example, and in the first version of orbeez you can already create a group and, have you know all of the posts shared in a specific channel, be gated. So it's going to look exactly like the direct message.

C

Example that I shared so the the post is going to be created on ceramic, but the content itself will be encrypted and except that the role to decrypt the content, the access control condition is not going to be based on specific addresses, but it's going to be based on whether or not you own a specific nft, for example. So you could say: okay, if you own a crypto punk for example, then you can have access.

C

You can decrypt all of the content that are being shared in this specific channel, so group admins could already do it today, using orbeez.

F

It would it be possible like to open it for custom logic by admins, or is it like a fixed thing by by or.

C

Yeah, no, the access, control conditions could be anything. I think the issue is not necessarily going to be or easier. It's more going to be lead protocol right, so lead for know, as this set of logic that you need to use and when you want to use a new one at least it was the case a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if you update, if they have updated it here, but they kind of need to like add themselves to your system right, but basically it can be based on any punching condition right.

C

So, for example, at some point to test I wanted to have you know the proof of humanity: contract be integrated in orbeez, so that you could decide to encrypt the past and that only you know, people verified on proof of proof of humanity could actually be able to decrypt it and in less than 24 hours they just added. You know this new contract to the system, and now it was working so basically like.

C

If you had a very a very custom contract that wouldn't necessarily fit the ercs that are known today, we could just dm the lead protocol team and they would add it to your system and then using the orbis ui. You could add bus access, control conditions yourself.

G

Maybe also, I want to add something on top of what ross shared on the on the message you can select as a developer, also the context that you want to showcase the the data. So, basically, you can select like a specific context where you only the people. Looking at your interface will see your contents or you can say I want the context of all uh all the data from any uh posts referring to to this context.

G

So, for example, an nft marketplace, let's see, opens open c, looks rare and any others on the same collection on ft. You can see the same comments on all of them, and this is also what is cool um about ceramic.

F

And also is it possible for the admins to be controlled by uh smart contract functions like um we? We do not want to have single points of failure and allow for such fragility. We want for admins to be ethereum addresses that uh or smart contracts to that are controlled by the dow through on chain governance, not uh eoa, wallets.

C

Yeah, so that's something that I'm pushing to the ceramic team, but for now it doesn't work right. So there is a very early support for multi-sigs, but it's not finalized yet, but at some point I mean that's something that I'm pushing so at some point it should be possible to create streams using smart contracts, hopefully- or at least you know- maybe have like a workaround to to make it possible. But for not that's it's still based a lot on. You know eoa.

C

So, like that's the only issue so far that we that we could say about ceramic, but so for multisig there they have an early support for multi-six. So technically it could work. You could have a multisig, so the thing with ceramic is that you, you join by signing a message and because multisigs or smart contracts, you don't have like this very rare, like signed message function. There is an eip that has now been adopted.

C

I believe that all of the like news is multi-sig saves, for example, that can sort of like replicate this signing message, action which creates a transaction on the ethereum. um I mean on the blockchain that the multisig is, but I think that's the thing that they are not fully integrated with, but hopefully in a few weeks you should be able to like join orbeez using a multisig and as this multi as this multisig be able to like write streams, and you know share like past et cetera. But for now it's not at least at lunch.

C

It's not going to be fully supported.

F

Nice I mean even like hearing out that you know that already that it's a need and you're working on it is good enough.

A

Cool yeah super cool, um impressive, please and tell us um thanks thanks a lot. Congratulations! Yeah thanks for joining, so I think, like uh I'll post here, like um the telegram group that um that nathan opened with you guys um and we want. I think we will continue the conversation there uh and I think, like I, I see a couple of verticals like to interact and I think one of them is ross who's, leading uh the sort of like the governance team and building uh sort of like the next iterations of our governance platform.

A

So that's kind of like one vertical another vertical that could be interesting is uh dx ventures which is sort of like the um the arm, the investment arm of the style. But it's it's like sort of like what we focus on is you know, investing or giving a grant in a way to uh projects and products that we're going to use, and there are progress in decentralization. So I think in general this very much fits um with what we're doing and then you know we'll we'll discuss internally um and yeah.

A

I don't know if anyone wants to add anything else. We can continue in the chat.

B

A

B

A

You guys will come also to another call in the future um and yeah.

C

A

Sure and I will share.

C

The I will share the developer document, the very early developer, documentation that I will have, maybe by the end of the week with ross like if we like, we can probably like you know, get started on those kind of things.

A

August, did you want to speak? Were you very polite? No, no! No.

D

A

All right: um well, thanks! uh Please! Charles, are you welcome to say we're. Gonna continue talking about yeah, um basically uh well. The next topic is just like the uh new york city. uh Crypto week we had some of the people in attendance uh skye and chris um yeah.

C

C

Thank you very much for thank you very much for having us. It was a pleasure and we can definitely like keep the conversation going.

A

Awesome. That's awesome. Thanks for coming thanks, bye-bye, everyone.

A

um Yeah, scott, you want to take us away, tell us how how how is it sunny in new york according to uh uh to the scottish people in the chat.

B

Yeah, so I guess I just I haven't like written a lot of this down, but um I think there's a lot of good things. So I'll try to uh share a summary and then maybe yeah sean was there for a bit and chris also, but um so it's kind of funny, because the entire yeah, the reason all this stuff happened in new york, probably well originally at this.

B

This time was because that was when nft nyc was, which was like bigger than it was the prior year, um even though the markets are down and stuff, but everything was already planned and there's you know it's probably the biggest number of speakers and things, but because that was happening.

B

There's a lot of people that were coming to new york around that and what happened is- and I don't know if this was coincidence, but there was obviously eth nyc, uh which is a youth global hackathon, which was also this weekend um and then um all of these other events that I would say we I I was more interested in, um and probably the people here, like dow related events, also popped up around this week of people being in new york. And so there was like this doubt.

B

Like ethereal, assembly is actually put on by consensus mesh, which is like their arm. That's doing investments and they have tachyon accelerators. So they have like all of these groups and companies that are that are being created, and many of those I think, need to be or want to become.

B

Daos and and consensus has never really been a dow or had a dow focus, and so they are trying to get more involved in the dial conversation and and share the learnings and things. um And then there was a yeah, dow nyc event, which was mainly organized by tally and a few others, which was a really good crowd.

B

A lot of the panels were around topics that we're all familiar with. It seemed like vcs and some you know, sponsors kind of led. The panel led many of the panels.

B

Then there was also dow planet, which we saw at dow planet in denver and it's kind of an upstart dao community.

B

It has a different group of people and kind of they're, organizing it and maybe different types of communities that we may not be used to in the in, like the more regular dao space that that we've been a part of um so it actually there's new people and new ideas and and a different angle there, and then there was also this funding the commons event that was put on by protocol labs, which they continue to make these, like amazing events, um at least amazing production of events like this.

B

This event was at the new york historical society, which is like this crazy museum event space and they they rented out the entire thing for like two days.

B

The attendance on the saturday that john and I went was not as wide because it was a saturday as the friday as the friday was, but I didn't wasn't able to go to the one on friday, but it they captured a lot of good content uh and I think, that's all already on youtube, which is pretty amazing how it was like, captured and streamed and put and cut into youtube like the next day and that whole thing was. And then it was also co-organized by git coin.

B

So that whole thing was based on funding the common so like public goods and all of the things revolved around that. So just some of the takeaways from these things that that I had- and I wrote some of them here on the agenda.

B

But there's like someone gave a number of like there's 80 000 daos, that that are in existence, and these are obviously from small little groups of people in discord channels or telegrams to like actual real dows and things. But there's lots of people out there. In the dow space and one of the one of the things with the ethereal assembly. Discussions were a lot of people that were there were basically raising concerns about the dao space, and part of it is many of the people who are very new to dao's many people.

B

You know many of these dials aren't actually really taos and there's problems that come with that. There's many problems about um there's so much going on that, if you just like, are unorganized and you don't do good time management people get sucked into like, and this isn't just dao. This is crypto in general, like if you are on discord or telegram like 24 hours a day, you never sleep, you can get sucked into all these communities and you will become burnt out right.

B

Then, there's like this topic of participation, which I quickly turned that discussion into. You know elon's famous word of initiation, because everyone was kind of trying to figure out how how how to get more people to participate in dao's and it's basically um yeah participation is not what you want. What you want endows. What we've learned, I think more, is that you want initiative right, you don't want. You don't need everyone to participate.

B

You want people to pay attention, and then you need people to take initiative to like do things and and help push those things through the dow um and then there's a lot of questions about legal, which these are questions that dx dao, I think, has as well, and we have some you know, given that recent posts on the forum about our dao council position and exploring legal. uh You know, topics related to legal, whether it's in the u.s or other things or what taos can do with legal entities and things like that.

B

A lot of people have these major concerns. Where should they have legal entities? Where should they be all that kind of stuff?

B

uh My dao, which is a big organizer of dow planet, is the is adam's adam, um the thriller his you know, project uh with dao entities in the marshall islands um and then like how to govern within daos. Whether delegation is good, whether um yeah now with soulbound token paper and people becoming more familiar with things that are not just liquid token governance.

B

People start to ask more and more what are the best ways to get good governors and do governance in your dows and and that's where reputation and potentially your web3 profile or your proven contributions in the space that becomes a lot more up in yeah in front in into the front of people in these discussions, and that's where dx dao has the ability to share ideas and experience with things like that with on chain, provable reputation earned through contribution to the dao, and so those are all like lots of topics dx that, like a lot of times, I would sit there and I'm sure yeah other and chris, and I were sitting there also with the dao nyc and there's these panels, where, like people, are trying to work through addressing these problems and this burnout and how to organize and how to onboard new people into community and all this stuff- and this is this- is all stuff that obviously dick styles been doing for like two years.

B

I know I'm going on. This is a little bit long-winded, but dxo's been figuring this stuff out for over two years and has a lot of knowledge in this space, and we have this knowledge in. You know lots of our heads. We have some of it in our dx docs, which is great. We have we share some in articles and on twitter, but given how this lack of information is not in the hands of most people in the dao space, probably I think we have an opportunity to get this.

B

You know out there from the dx style voice more and more whether it's the ens example of using you know, dows owning the actual front ends whether it's people, ops, contributed experience, whether it's how to how to eliminate scammers or how to very, very quickly filter scammers um from coming into your community and the way we use trial periods and things like all everything being disked out is basically a standout to like and has experience solving.

B

So many of these issues that most other dows are like trying to figure out, and so the question is like: how should we share this stuff? When should we share it, why should we share it? Will it yeah we'll grow awareness of the exile?

B

It will bring new, probably contributors that are interested in participating into our space, um and so we plan to hopefully do more yeah find other people that are also interested, and so one example is with the way we use ens, but we've been sharing how we use ens for a long time and still no other dials. Do it so like we could share that.

B

So the idea is maybe team up with other people that have broader or other outside reaches such as uh you know, ipfs team or protocol labs and potentially pinata and and basically do maybe a case study or co-written articles and things where and then maybe a twitter space with their communities.

B

And so the idea is to take a lot of the the maybe highlight little pinpoint, maybe a handful of things that dx dow has really done well and accelerated and and focus on getting that those pieces of information out more into the space and in this space it's it's a big.

B

It's a big mess, everything's all over the place, and so there are some organizations like metagov who's, doing like research on dao's, this smart contract research forum, which I would recommend everyone checking out. It's called scurf for for short, rich brown, who used to be maker governance coordinator, and then this guy eugene, I think, are leading this and the idea is.

B

It could be a place where all dows and communities can come to this place, and it won't just be like the centralized database, but it will be a place where this information, which we have in our community or other communities, can can make sure that there's a copy of this information or a reference to it in this centralized place where people can come and depending on the topic, they can learn and then they can leave.

B

You know from that that database and they can end up in you, know dx docs or something to learn about a certain uh activity or initiative that dx style is doing um so overall yeah it was like everyone's talking about daos. You know the next time we like a year from now. I think you know people are gonna, be coming to new york around dow nyc rather than nftnyc, and we have of all the topics and problems in the dao space.

B

Dx dao, you know, is like I think a lot of us are very bullish on the the experience and things that we've that dxdo's already been working through um in this space. So it's it's great to see.

B

We just need to do a better job of communicating that out to the space and the question is: how does that then help dx, dow and dxd holders, and our products is as we do, that I think it will just become more and more clear that dx dao is, is leading at like the more decentralized spec end of the spectrum in the dial space and is getting better and better and hopefully gets quicker and quicker and gets more contributors and and that will lead to awareness and use of our products and stuff, like our name, is a little tricky like people know swapper and they're, like oh dx, dow.

B

What does dxdow doing you know? People mix it up with dydx and stuff, and it's like random letters. Yet they know the products that we've made once you say: oh yeah, that swapper was made by dxdao, then they're like. Oh that's, awesome like oh, that, okay I'll look more into dx dial and so there's a little yeah, bringing the brands together and making sure people, maybe making it more clear, like the products that people are using is like part of dxdown made by dx dow. It could be one thing as well, but um yeah.

B

That's like a long-winded summary of yeah.

A

Yeah, I think, like I highly agree with um you, know some sky's points I think, like we're really ages ahead of every everyone else in terms of just the core thinking of governance, and, I think, like you know the thoughts of like governance 2.0 like we did like a year and a half ago.

A

These things are brilliant and yeah. We just need to make sure that we're collaborating on these things and you know getting every opportunity to speak, and I think I saw a lot of people are going to be talking at the at devcon, which is important, then yeah the twitter space that we did the other week. You know that was that's awesome. I don't know if we can yeah, maybe yeah, I don't know, maybe do more twitter spaces. Maybe talk more about just like just governance conversations, um so yeah.

B

Well, we do have operation decentralization, which is a which is a twitter space, focused, hopefully regular event that we can start to talk more about these additional just highlighted things. I think, in addition,.

A

To our community.

B

A

Yeah, so let's, let's do that, I don't know, I think it should be weekly, but I don't know that might be too much um and yet try to invite more people. You had like the element finance who built like an interesting governance system that you know has some parallels to what we're doing um and yeah yeah just like.

B

Invite yeah the one crazy thing and we should. um I I think that people here in the dxl community, like I I unless and maybe some people have issues, but there are have been scenarios where people were feeling maybe burnt out, but overall I think the dx style community has treated that topic quite well like we have.

B

You know, hopefully there's people you can talk to and there's different initiat or actions you can take if you are feeling burnt out, but this is like apparently a major issue in the dao space and I was sharing that, like in our community and some of the other communities, I'm in like I and we've been doing dao stuff for like a few years now. So maybe we learned and in the beginning there weren't that many taos.

B

So you you had time to figure out how to work in the dao space nowadays, there's like so many dowels that, like everyone that was burnt out like joined dao, was like four weeks ago and so it's kind of like it. Maybe it takes time and experience in the space, but if we can yeah we should. We should really pay attention to that. We don't want people to be burned out.

B

um We have talked about ways to like make sure that we can all like hang out and chat and do like non-work things with community members as well. There are some like social tools to like do goal-oriented.

B

um You know journeys together, which is like a way to build connections. Well, not specifically focus on like your work and stuff. So I think I don't know how, like even unconsciously, dx dow has has tried to make it so that onboarding experience and current contributors are don't get burnt out and can allocate their focus and time and they have you know. We've have very structured proposals that we're doing. This is what we're going to focus on.

B

Obviously, we don't always achieve everything in our proposals and stuff, but that helps that structure I think helps people allocate where their attention is, rather than just being overwhelmed by, like all the things that are happening in dxdow, not everyone has to do everything in dxdow, and that is not what happens in many other dial communities. Apparently, and so that's something. That's been really good in the style community that we that we, I don't know if we can share that or not, but we could uh yeah. We could make some.

B

We could try to share it to help other people or attract new contributors. I guess so.

A

um Yeah, I don't know any other topics like there's um like last week. There was this whole issue with um name cheap, um like a bunch of front ends, got essentially exploded like curve or, like sorry, convex finance and a bunch of others. And it's because of me like someone was compromised in inside nameship, and then you know I kind of took that.

A

um I don't know that chance to sort of like shield some of the stuff that the style is doing, and you know um yeah like basically ipfs ens and ipv6 websites and yeah. I.

B

A

Is something we should? We can also be like thought leaders in and we have that video, which is great um yeah just.

B

Yeah we have that video. We have that article, but.

B

That alone is not enough, and so the what what I was speaking about yeah just this weekend with is you know, protocol labs which created ipfs like they. Don't they mainly don't know that like dx dao is like one of the best examples of the of a dow using a tool that they built right so.

B

Not only do they want more dowels doing what dx dow does, which is good for ipfs, but also the dow space and the ns, but they should be ins. They should have a desire to help us share that message. Much much wider and obviously protocol labs and, as and ipfs have they have money.

B

They have events, um I think, getting their attention or framing it, so that this is like an amazing use case of of their tool that a dao is using and then having them help us spread that message through into their community and then hopefully wider than that is is a is a yeah we're gonna, try to um do that and then yeah cross yeah cross, communicate like cross community sharing of knowledge and and use cases. I think.

B

Is what we're going to do? Yeah.

A

Now um I don't know any other topics we're discussing a little bit over time. um I.

B

Guess yeah right over time, but just just lastly on since the most immediate thing is paris, um we have a sheet with people with dx style contributors that are attending want to make sure we have that as accurate as possible. um So we can know who's going to be there.

B

We ideally can have a dxo kind of meet up as early as possible in a week, maybe a dinner or something to get everyone who hasn't met each other to meet each other and then also a line and come up with like a you know, plan for everyone for the for the week um or you know, alignment and strategies, and then we and then yeah, there's a the event and and so the event that we are having with gnosis chain and get poep, and I guess now, potentially gnosis safe, is looking to get involved as well.

B

We want to make sure everyone from dx dao is obviously already included, and then we can figure out how many people we can invite outside of that and so we're going to. We have an eventbrite. We have a things we haven't shared it widely, but we are going to also be able to hand invite people that the different you know different dx, dial, devs and community people and stuff people that we're talking to that. We want to hand invite we can make sure they get a the direct invite and password and stuff.

B

So we can really um invite everyone that we want to be at this event, uh and it would be a great place uh for all the xdall people to catch up with everyone that we are um yeah working with.

A

D

um Nylon yeah, I I saw you have hackers, also on the on the agenda. Yeah. You want.

B

F

D

F

D

Yeah uh we have the website design the micro site, uh that's how kinan and dear call it and well thank for the banners and something that they share with me. We have only one choreographer confirmed so far. We share the presentation, pda pdf, also on the more information for hackers and yeah. It's a it's just a micro site right with the basic information with the link to the application.

D

It would be good if you can guys check it out and I'm planning to and announcing it soon. I mean I just waiting now for ali to get back to me to finish the application form, and then we can start spraying the work and we should. I guess we should coordinate on that right, making sure that everyone is going to be sharing it on twitter and other stuff.