DXdao DXbiz Weekly Gathering, 20 Jun 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: DXbiz Weekly Gathering [2022-06-20]

Description

00:05 Welcome
01:08 Staking ETH Discussion
12:02 .limo switch from .link Discussion
32:30 ETHCC Update - GC co-host.

A

Recording is on.

B

Hello and welcome to the dxbiz uh weekly call for uh monday 20th of june 2022, um no new member intros and uh no presentations today, but we will have a few discussions.

B

uh One is about uh staking uh staking eth and some opportunities that have been discussed in previous calls: um switching to dot limo um with swapper and others, um and and if the uh nyc uh or nfd nyc and the nyc crypto week. There are a few, the external members there they're gonna, be attending a few things um and then um yeah on the dx events. We have some good news about ecc. uh We have uh hacker soul. uh Bogota, that's coming up.

B

I guess later this year and uh under the adventures we have uh doing good proposal um so yeah. I guess we can start with the staking. If opportunity um and yeah do you want, do you want.

C

To discuss this, there are few sure, but we don't have to go into too much detail, but.

D

C

So what there there's, obviously there's ongoing um treasury management that dxdow does it's.

C

We we've been doing it, it's a if it involves staking eth and then we have dollar runway, and we were just discussing before we started the recording that there's with the markets behaving the way they are there's new opportunities and then there's new risks that that appear on for things related to eath and staking eath, and we've had some of those discussions based on the the plan, the distribution that the excel holds and then plans for future holding of state teeth and how to treat that and then there's also similar discussions of like the dollar runway, uh which which of the dollar tokens and things to hold and and then there's opportunities that arise there and then there's also new risks that arise, and so um this is all part of, I guess, treasury management um who and dave can speak to it.

C

This may not be the call to go to details, but it's good to be aware of, and it's highly related to like things going on in the space. So it's good to talk about those and communicate those but dave. Yet you want to speak, yeah he's raising his answer.

E

Well, I'll, keep it brief, but um I know there was some discussion in the forum about lido trading at a discount, um so I actually spoke with the stakewise guys this morning and they've actually kind of changed their position, so they're not aiming to maintain the peg anymore either because it's not efficient for them. In this current market situation, and so as of right now uh staked eve from stake, wise is also trading at a five percent discount on uni swap and um on stake wise.

E

You actually get a pure eve discount, because rewards are uh issued as a separate token, while in lido the discount includes reward tokens. So um you know, with that in mind, the the discounts currently seem to be pretty much the same between lido and stakewise, and that might also reopen a bit the discussion about. You know um what tokens to acquire and uh you know uh interest in going for the more decentralized option it is. You know for stake wise at this point. It doesn't even matter so much.

E

Of course, we've been trying to work with them, given that we support what they do uh buying on the secondary market is not really. You know game changing for them. Of course, their goal is to issue more eve, but of course, in the current market situation we have that opportunity and you know we could uh re-evaluate a bit uh which tokens we want to acquire. Of course, the idea was to get 2 000 eth of stake wise.

E

Initially, then the stake, if lido dpeg happened, uh now all stake if uh assets are kind of uh depect somewhat, and so that's just something to revisit yeah and you know I'll leave it short and sweet and leave it there.

B

Yeah, I was just going to write this, but I'll just say it like. If we do that, like what ross just said, if we like dca into all those take these, I mean this is strategically. It makes sense for us and we could like uh leverage this for like marketing purposes. You know deep style is here like trying not necessarily trying to restore the peg, but you know we as an organization believe in you know the future of uh of state teeth, which is pretty cool.

C

Yeah well, the big thing is dave's new information, though, that that stake, wise eth also has a discount when you trade on your swap, that's very important new information, because that was a big factor in the discussion of like. Should we do that when we could do it on lido and make a bunch of extra money and like do we give that up and now, if they're similar discounts, then it's let, then that becomes less of an important factor and then it makes sense to be diversified.

C

Give the discount across you know the two or potentially three is does the third does rocket pool also have a discount. For that reason, dave or not.

E

um I actually need to check because rocket pool well rocket, pool the price completely deviates from from ether anyway, so I just need I have to check. What do you mean completely? Deviates that sounds bad like rocket pool just becomes more expensive, so they don't issue new rewards. As a token. The original token you stake just becomes more expensive because it kind of like includes the reward gotcha, but.

C

Like if you you can figure out, if it's theoretically trading at a discount, yeah.

E

Yeah exactly I just can't go on coin gecko and see if the price is different, because it's always going to be different. That's why but I'll check.

F

Just through uh tj spartan update, who I actually literally think, is the reason that stick wise abandoned the peg. uh I think he says that rocket pool is an outlier that they're basically still pegged.

F

But definitely sky said that, like the yeah, I mean the fact that this is not specific to lido right. It's all state thief and so, like you know, as a reminder, there was that there is a past signal proposal for 2008 staking with stakewise the first um proposal to execute that just went through um and we haven't. I don't think it's actually required we'll do that.

F

Maybe today after this call um and then there is another proposal, the second 500 of that 2000- that is boosted uh and would, I think, has seven days for voting, um and I honestly actually like wrote up something um this morning.

D

F

Doing another separate proposal to redirect some of the remaining 1500 eth, including the proposal- that's lived today- maybe voting against that proposal so that that each that was earmarked for stakewise, that that would be used to acquire lido because it's at a discount but like now. I don't think that makes any sense, because I think the concerns about lido about, like centralization are still real and very true um and really the only reason it was being to like get lido ease was because it was trading at such a discount.

F

But if stake wise is at the same discount, then yeah, I think it. I don't think I don't know if there's anything that needs to change from the existing plan and strategies that was laid out in the recent staking proposal, which is to yeah state 2000, with with stakewise, um presumably they're, all going to be like maybe around the same amount um like whenever things settle, and I think they are kind of trading like you know, 94 95, for for both of them for all of them.

C

Yeah this is a a unique factor in that and like true, proper dow treasury management, where we have these proposals and they yeah well.

C

The first one was a signal proposal right and didn't actually move money, and then we have to do the proposals that actually move money, but you get new information all along the way between the period of when you know, maybe the signal proposal passed and then the action proposals passed, which then have to go to the multi-cigarette and take another action and the markets can still move or new information can still come so like doing a new and if new, to change the strategy that the signal proposal passed, which then dx dow is supposed to execute that.

C

But there's new information like doing new signal proposals um I mean talking about in the forum- is always like the fastest way to do it, but then get doing new signal proposals like the draft you were writing up. Chris is pretty important, but it's like and then, if people were observing from the outside or not paying very close attention, they could see potentially actions being taken.

C

That, like kind of are confusing when you just read like one of the proposals, if you don't have all of the info, all of the updated proposals and information as we get new information, so it's it shows how tricky it is. But it's you know, making it as transparent as possible and and as clear to follow the the decision-making and past as possible. I think is, is key for the like on the actual unchained proposals, but it is, it is very gets complex quickly.

C

B

Yeah, I was just uh yeah. I was just about to say that this, like what you just described, this complexity could be interesting to sort of solve this with ux in dxgov um yeah, like how sort of like proposals are changing as they go or yeah. I guess things are changing.

D

Yeah, I want to realize too much, but I think we've put some thought into that in terms of even just having the forum in your governance. Application will give you a lot of opportunities to highlight and make proposals more fluid, um but if people have thoughts on how that could be better, let us know because it's still very much in development.

B

Yeah cool yeah. Maybe if you share like what you've been thinking right now, I guess it's in the chat. But if I don't know, maybe like a forum post that specifically discusses this and how to present.

D

C

Yeah and then related to that- I guess we mentioned briefly before starting like similar discussions around dollar, stable or stable tokens, whether it's rye or usdt or usdc or dye dx dao, has, I think, dave was saying, there's going to be a forum post about this soon, but yet narrowing the strategy, for I guess what dx dao is in favor of our plan.

C

Up until now has been diversification among a whole bunch of different ones, and that as we get, new information is changing, live and so putting more thought into like which are the ones that dx dow would prefer to hold and then taking actions towards moving towards that direction is uh important.

C

Just regarding what you're supposed to be like safe runway for dx dao and all of a sudden. Maybe some of it's not as safe as people thought it was so keep that in mind too.

C

I don't know if anyone had anything else to add on those. Otherwise, here we could move yeah.

B

Yeah, uh okay, so I guess the next topic is sort of um the limo uh switch from um yeah from dot link, which is, you know, been unstable. We've discussed this several times the best um so yeah, I don't know like.

G

Maybe I could like chime in here yeah.

B

G

We're doing similar things to what the style is doing. I guess on the website, but for swapper. So I think some some uh things we could like to do immediate action is just ask.

G

I put up an image with all the links. We should ask owners of the site to link to that limo.

G

Instead of that link, I think that's the biggest factor we can do, but other things we could do is just strengthen our seo. I don't think we've focused any seo on our websites and I think if we just guide google, what is right and what is wrong and google can start rank the right site on search result right now. If you search for swapper or the stats or dxdao, the first results, always dot link and it's broken you, you can't go go in there.

G

We had people on this code coming in and saying hey, I feel rugged. The drug is swapper dead. I mean there's a bunch of comments. Right people think it's dead, I think yeah from our side. We should change all links from geek docs to website to the landing page, to always have that limo and ask our partners to also change the links, but other than that. I think that, and actually we could just yeah just look into the seo.

G

I'm I'm happy to try this with swapper. First see how that goes, and then big style could just copy what we did.

C

Better yeah thanks- and I just put that on here, because some of us were on the swapper call and there's obviously a clear discussion and there's a now a strategy, and it was mainly focused on you know: swapper dot eth, um but it's really important. I don't know someone probably know chris probably knows like well, there's, probably like nine or ten dx, dow e s sites or pages that use it and the strategy that we're going to apply with swapper.

C

We really need, like an overall strategy and coordination around doing that for all of the yeah. Every everyone we use um swapper is probably the most used most important one, but and and like you said, we could you could uh you could either first do try to do like the the plan you come up with for swapper.ed.limo, and then we could try to replicate that or we could.

C

We could try to do all of them together because p, there's gonna, be people that link to swapper that also link to dxdow.eath and and omen and stuff, and so it it would for those people that were asking to switch things.

C

It would make sense to ask overall, rather than just for swapper and then yeah, you know come back later, so we probably have a consolidated strategy. Yeah.

G

I mean we could um right now, I'm just using like free free to use tools or like trials to see what's going on and who's linking to what, but we could do like like a top top 100 list where we could just reach out and see as an example.

G

um What's her name, ens domains basically always links to that link and it's dead, I'm not sure what what their plan is, but it is pretty bad from their side also right to link to something that is, that is always dead almost if we reach out to them and change it for swapper, then obviously it's worth it worth it to to change it for for for the rest of the products, I'm not even sure if it's possible right, but we should definitely have that kind of list where we say yeah.

G

This website has these links, which includes all the products right. So I could. I could help out, save save these lists and then we could try to compile them into into one list where we could just contact them once.

B

How how crazy, like just like wondering how crazy this is that that you know ens gave the dot link thing to cloudflare and it just like completely shattered, like yeah, I don't know, broke half of the internet, basically of like half of the web 3 infrastructure. I guess.

G

But this can happen again. I mean all the work we're doing now. I'm not saying that limbo guys will will do something I mean I mean it can happen again right, dot, lim all the work we're doing, and we we push everything to dot limo and then one day that limo is slow or bad or so we we need to prepare ourselves like to not be too dependent on these things, that we don't control or- or it's not even reports to controlling these.

G

So um maybe I don't know preparing for the next step like how can we not be depending dependent on these stuff? Can we work together with let's say, ens, to make ens official like? Can we push that thing to be so it's built into like every browser, because the day that eth becomes like native in the browsers, then we need to do all this work again right.

G

We need to change all that limo to dot et again, so this will happen more times.

C

So one of the things we a year and a half ago ago we to be to make examples, is we were trying to push the you know like even on our home page, when we were linking the products we were linking to like swapper.ethanomen.eth, and we wanted to lead with that, like use metamask to resolve to the actual just swapper.eth, assuming you have metamask on your browser um and then, if you didn't, then there's a side link that says like if you aren't in like a web3 browser that can resolve to ens click, this link and then it used like swapper.ethotling.

C

So like the the the. What we'd really want is people to resolve the enses like through the easiest mechanism they actually have like on their own computer, and that you could do that in status wallet. You can do that in metamask. You can do that with a hand full of other ones, and then the backup was use eat that link.

C

But I don't know we basically abandoned that, because overall, it was a worse user experience for people getting to our products. I think, um but it sounds like in the future that that may become easier for people to do, but in the meantime we are leaning into link or sorry into limo we're moving away from dot link, and we should make that more public and more clear and just tell people that very regularly like once. We take the steps to to make this move.

C

We should you know, along with stressing how dx diet uses ens, we should say why we're using dot limo- and you know there is also an option to resolve it yourself, but we should be. We should get more awareness around this, because it's one of the most unique things that dxdow does. I think I think.

G

Something we could do for all our sites is to have like when you go to to, let's say, swap dot limo.

G

We will have like there's a place where you could click and you can see um you can see all the different places where, where swapper can be resolved, so let's say that link or that limo or if there's more options in the future, and you see if they're, online or offline, and then you see what the native link is right. This way people knows. Oh, this is the different ways I can.

G

I can go to swapper, and this is the one I am on right now I mean obviously this could be faked if someone's scamming or whatever, but I think this is like good visualization of what am I on and and and is this like? What is the difference between going on dot eat or going to that limo right?

G

I think tornado tornado cache has a place where you could click and you see all the links right. It's on the front page. uh It doesn't explain anything, but you kind of understand like this is the different ways you can go to the to the site and then and then yeah. The user can decide.

B

Yeah, I guess interesting, and this is yeah. I think I feel like yeah. Like you guys said, um we need to be more public about this and be sort of like the leaders in this, because we are, I guess the question is: how do we communicate this and how do we work with this and I think yeah, this partnership with that limo? Is, you know one of the first things and yeah? We need to figure out how to be vocal, um yeah. Maybe moving on to the next topic.

C

Yeah now I just real quick related to that and yeah. Some of the little guys are here, but um they've been funding limo based on basically some grants. I think ef has given them some grants.

C

I don't know if other people have but given dx, dao's use of and and you know and leadership in the enf space in in this tool that enables us to allow people to even use our products is, I think you know, even if it's some small amount, I think it would could be interesting for dx dow to officially give a grant and support um like that type of tool that is being built, especially since it's yeah it's granted, so that limo.

G

Guys is here, yeah: can we can we ask them what they feel about all of this? Obviously yeah. They work with this so um yeah. If anyone wants to speak about link that limo conversion and also the future of do, we need to do this again and what what can we expect.

G

They're not prepared, obviously,.

C

C

You try going out and coming back in maybe yeah.

C

You see on here twice.

H

Okay, cool all right and so just be clear: I'm not the developer, I'm the community person here, so my brother would be the one that is more technical, um but as far as like grants go so yes, we received a small grant from the ethereum foundation and from ens, but really other than that. I mean it's been hard to work with ens.

H

I don't want to get into that. The ethereum foundation has helped us through, like aws credits, and they have another developer. That they're basically have put like on a contract role on uh like a quarterly basis, but uh outside of that yeah, it's been.

H

You know it's people, you know. When you have a product and something works, it seems a lot harder to get funding than like if they're waiting for a product to come out. If that makes sense,.

C

Yeah so like the fact that it's working is, is almost a negative in order to get grant funding and things like that, you're saying.

H

I mean I would say, because it's free, you know like we we're not. You know we're never going to charge people to use the gateway. um You know there's features or things that you know after we. You know the public. Good aspect is first and foremost, but you know there are ways that potentially we can provide. uh You know anonymized analytics to try to get.

D

H

Off of google analytics, but you know it's a really hard thing to monetize.

G

So I think one thing I'm I'm like thinking is like: is there any maybe talk with dns about replacing that link or taking over that link.

H

So my understanding is, of you know: virgil griffith, which has his own backstory. He ran uh like he thought. Link originally was the owner.

H

um It's my understanding when he went to prison and I guess got out uh like on his bail, he transferred it to cloudflare and then cloudflare now runs it sort of just as like a I don't know. They just run it for e s. On b, I'm sorry yeah. They just run it on e s and they don't really have any it's. My understanding, like enos, doesn't really have any control over. It doesn't really care and cloud flare is just sort of meh about it. Like they're. Just you know, there's there's no concern to them.

H

They don't it's just secondary. Have anyone tried.

G

Caring about like, if we propose like hey, we have a team to work on us and want to make it better. Have anyone gone to ens or cloudford to to try to do this.

H

Well, I'm trying to get my brother on the call yeah. Just like think it's going to matter like cloudflare has like they are working. You know I mean they have blink kind of working.

H

uh They have changed some stuff with it, but for the most part I mean cloudflare really has no incentive to make it better because they don't make money on it. The only reason they run. It is because they can just say. Well, you know we're supporting this. You know infrastructure, but I I really don't think anybody cares about it.

B

Yeah, I'm wondering if, if there is a way similar to the way what the graft did with um sort of decentralizing this infrastructure, if there's an interesting way to do the same thing with you know the limo and creating like you know a whole ecosystem around this thing and um yeah, basically allowing um yeah people to run sort of like relayers and get paid with tokens, and then you'll have to pay a small fee in order to uh yeah, I guess access websites- I I don't know kind of like spitballing.

H

Like that yeah, my brother is here now, so if you want to speak on the decentralizing aspect,.

I

Yeah sure, can you give me a little context. I'm sorry! I um we had another call for something unrelated to this, but I rescheduled that so. um Can you just give me a quick summary of what what's being discussed.

H

I I guess basically decentralizing the like an infrastructure like the ethot link or epoch limo, where it's not controlled by a central entity and somehow token holders. It's our. You know, decentralized concept that we discussed.

I

Yeah so they're uh we've talked about this a lot and we keep kind of coming back to a few core problems that I think are inherent to this. This sort of plan and the main issue there is around the uh web, 2 dns name. So in this case you know star.eth.limo, that's obviously got to uh has to be owned by someone and operated and records defined.

I

That then point to some type of ingress that is able to facili, facilitate and handle that traffic and then, similarly, with certificates, so there's got to be kind of a central entity, given the nature of how certificate authorities work, where you know we're able to retrieve those from let's encrypt and then terminate tls on our side.

I

I don't know how you can get around or decompose that into a more decentralized concept, just simply because the nature of how those things work. However, it is absolutely possible to at least take the back ends of this, which would be you know, basically, the reverse proxies uh and all that stuff uh ipfs clusters, everything that that could uh definitely be uh run by the community so that it's not just entirely something.

I

That's uh within our custody, and I think that that's where the idea of content, integrity um and verification becomes even more important if you start uh allowing you know there has to be a trust factor. I guess that's established within whatever this this protocol, whatever form that would end up taking uh just to you know, give those guarantees that um you know if there are other people operating this, that there's not a way for them to maliciously interfere with the um excuse me sorry, someone was texting.

I

Me uh maliciously interfere with the uh requests and response payloads. uh So those are you know, I think, just at a high level, some of the pitfalls with trying to build something out like this. um I think it's definitely worth uh an effort, um but I think you know another kind of serious issue here is that once you start getting into pretty deeply technical solutions for something like this um and even with you know pairing it with.

I

uh You know some sort of browser that has uh these resolution capabilities, um you kind of start obviating the need to decentralize the infrastructure itself for that kind of web 2.5 thing that we're providing at the moment um so yeah. Those are my thoughts on it.

I

It's it is a a complicated uh problem and I don't have like a great solution to it, just simply because there are all these um various shortcomings that would have to be addressed with the way that kind of all this fundamental uh infrastructure and web 2 protocols in the way that they operate, and I am happy to elaborate further on any of that stuff. But that's uh just the way that I've been seeing it recently.

B

Yeah is this written somewhere like in one of the forums like I'm? I don't know interesting to get, maybe in one of the conferences to get. uh I don't know roundtable of people who are going to be discussing about this. You know like the graph people and ens and stuff like that.

I

Because this is yeah, I don't know, I don't think we've written anything down specifically about it. I mean I know it's been discussed and you know there's probably some discord post or something out there uh with it, but uh you know that probably would be a good idea, though, to get a more technical audience to be able to have this discussion and kind of ideate and brainstorm around um so yeah. That's something!

I

I think that we could try to at least get a rough uh overview for and then you know, try to get a discussion started there.

B

Yeah cool um yeah: do we want to talk about, like other things,.

G

I think we're out.

B

G

I have a lot of questions and thoughts, but I guess yeah.

B

G

Is not on our side now.

B

Yeah um so yeah do you guys want to mention maybe some of the like ecc plans. Maybe I think that's kind of like immediate.

C

uh Yeah, so the the good oh well, I believe the good news that maybe nathan was referring to is the venue for the happy hour kind of breakout, discussion, events that it's going to be with uh gnosis chain dxdow and gitpo app uh yeah. We were able to secure this really cool indoor outdoor venue- uh that's quite close to ecc um nathan and it's nathan, to confirm it's for the wednesday right from four to eight pm.

A

Yeah um we got the rooftop from four till eight. We'll now uh still have outstanding to sort out the catering, but we'll soon have uh the eventbrite ready and people will be able to sign.

C

Up, yeah, and so that we were discussing with the organizers, um I think the capacity is around 150 people, maybe 200, but the idea is to get well initially share with kind of there's a gnosis ecosystem chat, uh telegram group, um so getting people that are close to the gnosis chain ecosystem. That would also be familiar with dx dial products on gnosis chain and things um and then kind of builders from the get pop echo system and on from github and things, and so the three organizers together were gonna.

C

You know we're gonna have this kind of eventbrite, which we didn't use last time for our event, but because what we don't want is just like everyone, that's going to be in paris just signing up for this event and just randomly filling up the eventbrite.

C

We really want to curate it way more than that, so the eventbrite would be to maybe collect um interest from people, but we can also hand invite people that we want specifically to be there, that we know will be in paris and so as we uh as we get closer and you're talking to people, and there are yeah people that you want to specifically invite we'll be able to send them or either add them to the list or put them send them a specific uh sign up form that will allow them access or something.

C

So we want to make it public it will. It will exist on, like the the shared calendar of things that are happening happening that week, but it won't just be. Anyone can just like automatically sign up for for immediate access to this event. It will be like it will take some curation by the three teams that are organizing it.

C

So that's the idea around the event to make sure that we get the crowd there, that other people that we specifically uh would like to be there.

C

Yep, that's that's the update for now cool.

B

um So I guess we can stop the recording and maybe finish the call.