DXdao DXdao Weekly Meeting, 29 Aug 2022

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From YouTube: DXbiz WeeklyGathering [2022-08-29]

Description

This call encompassed a general discussion of goals and objectives of the Bizdev squad as well as DXdao.

A

Hello and welcome to dexter business call for the 39th of august 2022, um so I think kind of like to continue some of this stuff. That's been uh so like happening in the extent uh I suggest that you know we sort of even in the in this visitor call like take a break for a second and then maybe talk about um yeah, some of the goals and some of this stuff that we're trying to achieve- and I think this the skull is relatively small um but yeah we could.

A

I guess there have been like other calls having been discussing. You know the restructuring focus proposal, but I think maybe we can talk about this in the context of the bisdev. uh I think sky has taken some time off to sort of like you know chill from the past week, um and I actually don't see nathan here either, but he said he will join.

A

And yeah, just in general, I don't know um just general thoughts if people want to talk about. You know some of the things that have been raised in uh the forums and yeah. Maybe if we're dividing this up to departments- and this is- I don't know, I'm just.

B

A

Sort of flowing with my sort of proposal that each department should have its own goals and kpis et cetera. um What would the goals of the dxp is um so like working group should be? um How does this relate to you know, so the product developments or the product support that we've been doing um and yeah? I don't know if anyone wants to talk, I could probably go on forever, but yeah. These are sort of like setting the stage. If anyone wants to continue.

C

I do think the ideas that you talked about in your reply uh are potentially applicable across the town, not just the biz dev, but you know so. I'm.

B

C

The discussion from that perspective, but it would definitely like let you guys I don't. I don't want to like yeah.

A

So I think, like this.

C

A

Yeah, so I mean like this is true for everyone, but sort of like my take on this is that I'm primarily as a part of the the explicit grouping. You know if I sort of you know being like uh uh a bit fluffy, but you know be the change you want to see in the world.

A

So I think like if the dx biz uh like sort of squad is gonna, employ these sort of uh organizational tactics and okrs and kpis and all that stuff, then you know maybe others will be able to follow suit and yeah. um I think this is you know something worth exploring, not just for you know the business group, but you know for everyone else um and yeah. I do have something to say, and I don't know if, like conor like he's not here, he doesn't listen but um yeah. Maybe just like a few comments.

A

I can write this also there as well, but um so like expecting a dow uh to become profitable to give return to investors that quickly or you know, within two years or three years. Even it's, I don't think that's you know realistic and yeah in general, I'd like to have people who are you know when they, when they approach sort of like these uh conversations, they should come with solutions. It doesn't really make sense, in my opinion, at least you know to just um yeah.

A

Just I don't know just talk about like why things are shitty and why you guys are not doing anything good and blah blah blah and like the bottom line is, you know, start to quote sam beckmann freed, but you know, sell, sell all your dxd at you know the current price and off um so yeah. These are kind of like my general thoughts about that um yeah. I don't know if you want to talk about like in the general or yeah. Sorry.

D

Yeah well I'll, just on conor, just because um I just replied this morning after post last night. So hopefully my.

C

Reply this morning.

D

Is uh maybe, hopefully is a little bit more clarify what I was trying to say uh and not? uh I think what I said in my post last night, but I think my broad perspective here is how much all of this is part of the process right. So I think uh not only you're talking about like you know how we come up with these okrs. How do we develop these things that we can hold people accountable? um I think it is difficult to come up and agree on those things in the future.

D

Right and part of that we need to do, is just kind of discuss it and have all these things kind of out in the open, and so just as like, we think everything is very messy right now and like clearly, it's a lot there's like a lot going on, like I think that is part of the process of us having a collective understanding of like almost like a consciousness understanding of the different things that need to kind of happen to move forward, and then you know the different things specifically like on.

D

You know putting specific goals and um accountability thing. I think, in order to do that, you have to have this like process here so.

A

Yeah- and I think it's I mean- I think it's it's okay, I think it's it's not it's not. Okay. It's very good, just like at some points stop, and I think we tried to do that last time with the retreat, and I think you know there's another one coming up that you know. Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend, but to just stop, and you know figure out like what are the goals that we want to have or like what is the yearly goal? What is something attainable that we think we can achieve?

A

As you know, the excel and sort of like maybe preach, you know what we, uh what we're building right and you know, sort of through like a carrot and stick type thing. You know. If we manage to get to these goals or kpis, then you know dxda members will actually get additional dxd or we'll get dxd uh tokens, and if we don't, then you know we're not going to be getting like.

A

You know additional dxd and I think I don't know this is just something very, very primitive, but I think something that can be done sort of like in the high level right. This is what the style wants to do in a year um and then how do you break that down for each department right or each sort of like squad, each working group?

A

um What needs to be delivered by you know some of the product teams, what needs to be delivered by the ex-voice teams, what needs to be delivered by the digs uh business um and yeah? I guess how do we all like reach some of these kpis.

C

A

C

To respond to your earlier comment now, I do think it's really important that we listen to the dxd holders and that I don't think we should be telling them to like, sell and and go away and like to conor's credit. I think he's been one of the more actively engaged folks right. So I'm not like you know. There is a lot of ad hominem and like tangents in this thread not endorsing that per se, but I do think it's important to um to listen to the dxd holders and that's.

E

The whole point of governance.

C

2.0, and so it's also where we're heading right. So if we.

E

C

Address it now like once the new government system's there, like you know, they will have an actual saying governance.

A

Yeah, I mean I mean yeah I mean maybe my response was like a little bit extreme right, but um if you're just coming sorry like this is this is why I think, um like I think, a lot of people here know chris like on twitter and he's great and he's like good at calling out things. But what is good if you just call out without trying to be constructive right- and this is, I feel like conor- maybe plays into that- and you know happy to like bring him onto a call.

A

um I think um yeah like many times, I think in dick style right, someone would come to the forums that said, like hey, deekstar, you're behaving in a wrong way, and you know I think that you should not behave this way. Maybe you should, you know, go left or right, and then you know dig. That was very receptive, like we're very receptive to critics. Who are you know who are trying to be constructive, but I don't know it feels like he's a bit yeah.

A

Yeah, I don't know.

C

Well, I agree that we should try to focus um the conversation on constructive dialogue and on the actual points right, not not so much the finger pointing.

A

Yeah um yeah, I don't know any other thoughts like I guess some other people here.

A

B

This is a safe.

A

Space, it's the experience, call.

C

Safe recorded space.

A

Yeah, do you want to shut off the recording and just like I don't know, fully freely speed.

F

I think that would undermine the process right.

A

Yeah I mean yeah, I guess I don't know.

E

But yeah, I think the one other thing maybe to put in perspective.

D

Is you know where.

E

D

Are in development and figuring things out and then also like in this bear market too? um I think there is a lot of you know when.

A

You go through.

D

Down market then especially now, you're saying like there's a whole macro trend to this too. That makes it feel a little bit more um medium term. um It just introduces a lot of uncertainty to any organization in any group, and I think a lot of other dials are going through a lot of different things like this.

D

um Just looking at some of them that have gone over the last couple months, I think the biggest one is this fey rari, stuff and kind of how that's unfolded, um but it's- and this is like the first cycle, where dao, where dials are kind of figuring out how to resolve these issues, how to like deal with different markets, changing different um strategies, working failing um and so in this you know, geek style is- is in this process, along with others, trying to figure out in general how dows can handle these types of things, and then obviously they set a precedent not just for jake style in the future, but for other organizations that are trying to figure things out on chain and um yeah in a decentralized way.

D

How how best are the ways to to figure out how to solve some of these things in the uh this new web 3 world.

A

Yeah, I I I think this is something that I you know I I sort of joined this entire space because of the dao right right, like I read the dao hack and I was so like mind blown, and this is this- is what I find interesting right, how to do like a different structure to like you, know the corporate hierarchical thing, um and you know when we first got started. I think, like one of the first doubt that I was a part of at least was genesis now and saw some.

A

You know just like crazy happening there, like people paying uh like the hourly rate, became 60 euros an hour and then sometime later on, people needed to take notes in calls, and so someone could take notes in a call and get paid 60. 60 years an hour just to look ridiculous. So, like these sort of like things happened, and you know the more so like time progresses.

A

I think that um we need to take things from the corporate world or like the corporate structure and bring them on to like you know what we're doing uh and sort of in like a more transparent way, and so I think you know some of these things are like you know, squads or uh or guilds or working groups or whatever you call them, um and then the other things you know like kpis and okrs, um while still remaining like the goal, is to remain transparent and give like everyone at their organization power uh and now there's I don't know, there's just an interesting.

A

I mean there are many interesting questions around um um yeah. Can an organization happen or like can something innovate without like an actual leader? Do you have to have you know someone at the helm and you know setting the tone or is it okay to have yeah? I guess many people pulling in many different directions. I don't know these are sort of like philosophical questions to like organizations so yeah. I don't know wanna like jam on these topics.

A

G

A

Yeah, okay yeah, I'm trying to think like um yeah.

E

I want to keep this like.

A

Fairly open and yeah chill and then yeah.

E

Maybe the other.

A

Thing, that's you know, sort of like comes to mind is maybe we should let you know, teams sort of like grow up, grow inside the excel and then be spun out similar to yeah.

E

A

Has done with cow swap and mostly safe, um then yeah, let these organizations flourish on their own um yeah.

F

Yeah, I think nimi is basically very great example for a new approach right. They they're trying to be like mostly sovereign and have like a timeline for for that, and if they can't achieve that, um I think they will reevaluate the plan for nimi and the plan for the team. So I think nimi is a great example for, like a case study for dickstar, um and this is something where they should like.

F

Everyone should put more focus on in, like com, potentially like neemi being the first of like a framework or template for basically any squad or product team.

A

Yeah, I I agree, um and I think, like um yeah, I'm very bullish on on you, know this process and you know interesting to see how this will work out and how essentially, like um valley, will flow back to the exterior, and, um I think, dig style can also learn like what can it give, because this could be like you know something folks are here, but like wondering, if you know, if digs out conserves like the initial community of some of these projects like this could go a long way.

A

It's it's not easy to bootstrap community and it's not easy to bootstrap. You know um so like yeah.

E

A

Know people who are or in your discord people who are sort of like shilling, your product or whatever uh and people who are contributing to you, know ideas and stuff to your product and um yeah like there are many like value propositions that the dxdow can provide that really. No one else can, and I think, like I've, I've been saying this for a while that even helping uh so like projects decentralize themselves. That means, like you, know, deploying their dow uh helping them set.

A

You know the um the token distribution, even if it's token voting and then the reputation um uh distribution like to start like these are some super valuable things and they're, not just for like internally uh sort of like incubated projects right like um like something like mimi or like carrot, um so yeah um yeah. I think you know, there's also like some lots of like skilled developers here. That could help with certain things and yeah.

A

Yeah, I don't know if anyone else has any other comments about this.

F

Yeah, just uh I'm curious did this team had uh kpis already defined somewhere.

A

um So I think, like I mean we talked about this, we didn't have anything concrete, so yeah I mean so if we, if we're on the topic of okay or kpis, whatever um imagine like, I don't know if this could happen right, but imagine you know the dx biz team right instead of like having worker proposals uh once every quarter, like everybody like convenes sort of and then the dxps team says um you know, this is the goals. These are the kpis of what we're going to do and you know we need to reach them.

A

Let's say we have to, I don't know, create whatever, like five meaningful uh collaborations um between the excel and external organization right um and then by the end of the quarter, um we'll like we'll be able to quantify whether we've actually done this or not, and if we go below, I don't know 70 of our sort of like tasks executed. Then we're not going to get quote. You know the full salaries of what we're meant to receive, um and I know this is like a structure that I think could work and it's um yeah.

A

I guess this could be done with like nosy, safe right or um yeah like we would ask from the dow to give money to the gig's biz safe um yeah. Maybe this is also possible with carrot and that will be completely um yeah sort of like dog fooding, our product, um so yeah um and then yeah. You know if we exceed our expectations and have done like a way like a very good job, and this could also be like some social rating done through. I don't know, coordinate or stuff like that.

A

How how well is that the experience team worked to you know the other people in the in the in the dow um and yeah.

A

I don't know, I think I don't know if people have seen, but there's like this famous video of ray dalio speaking at um a ted and he's talking about sort of like the way that feedback works at bridgewater, which is you know, their um his hedge fund.

A

Basically, and it's like super around feedback and constantly feedback, and it's I have a friend who worked- and she says it's more like a cult than a company where, at every single day you get like a lot of feedback, and you know they have this whole system to give feedback to people and um and yeah like this- is how I imagine those like you know there should be a lot more feedback.

A

There should be a lot more like improvement, um and you know maybe changing uh according to yeah, like what other people are saying in the dell um yeah. I don't know. These are so like thoughts that I have in my head uh about this whole thing. So.

B

It's actually interesting that you mention um the feedback culture they have at bridgewater because, um as you guys all know, I'm in like the people upskilled with other contributors from other communities and the uh former people operations manager at bridgewater is in the people off skilled and we're actually going to connect in columbia and talk about the culture feedback that they had there.

B

What worked and didn't work, um but he actually left bridgewater because it really kind of turned into like a huge mess, because there was almost too much feedback that they were giving, but I think there's you know we can find like a medium between like the two he actually now uh does hr. I guess people ops at coordinates so an interesting transition for him, but I'm curious to hear a lot more about what it was like, and I mean. Obviously we can.

B

You know, take some things away from what they did there, but um I think that there were some negatives about having a culture just around giving feedback on almost a daily basis, we'll see.

D

Yeah the interesting thing about um bridgewater relates to geeksdow is the way they do. That is they record everything, so they have like all of their meetings are recorded and it can only be viewed internally um in the bridgewater organization, but I wonder in how they use that for feedback. If there's something that could be translated to dxtao in that yeah.

D

We have these a lot of these things recorded.

A

B

Interesting, I mean.

A

For them it's very much around like clear financial decisions so, like um I guess it's a little easier because it's like you know whether equities will go up or gold will go down and stuff like that, and you could you know if someone says that I think you know something will go up um yeah. So exactly it's a lot easier for them to measure, um but yeah like.

E

A

Like definitely something that you know we could try and implement, or at least yeah give give more feedback. I guess- and I think yeah I I I don't know I feel even though there's some, um what are they called like? There is some friction and you know people are like sometimes unhappy with each other. I think I think, what's special about these houses, that you know we're all here, because we really value decentralization.

A

We really want to make this work um and it's, I think, most yeah, maybe most other organizations or um many of the products in this ecosystem. They wanna you know trying to make as much money is as fast as um uh as fast as possible, um and you know having that in mind right.

A

Having that in mind, we want to actually make a decentralized organization work and we want to you know ship, good products and- and you know see this through, I think we have a strong foundation um that yeah we we're okay with giving each other some harsh feedback. I hope at least um so yeah kind of like some thoughts.

A

I don't know anyone else.

E

A

Dave, I I I mean I I guess it's interesting to have like anonymous, but I think it's also value to have it like, like not anonymous and like I could sit with. I don't know with john or with you dave or with you know, anyone on this call and be like I don't know. I think you took it. I don't know you weren't nice to someone or I think you know you didn't do what you're supposed to just like be honest about it. It's okay, um so yeah.

A

I mean theoretically could do um you could do it anonymously if you, if everyone logs with you, know anonymous, uh addresses.

A

E

C

You want to talk, maybe.

A

Dave you have any thoughts.

F

Nothing more than I'm just typing.

G

E

A

Yeah, I don't know anything else.

A

Kenny, why do you say that we're just a bit aware of all the forum talk.

E

Yeah just for me, I guess the vibe has not been that well.

F

E

That kind of affects, like me at least mentally.

E

For sure- and I guess this is like.

A

It's harder or easier for some other people right.

B

A

um Yeah, so I guess drama um yeah to talk about sort of the goals of the style or sorry, the dick's biz team, I think um yeah I mean I can speak for myself, uh sky and um and uh nathan and myself we meet every week. um We sort of like discuss some of the stuff that we want to do or some of the goals, and you know there's.

A

Obviously um one of the things we're trying to do is like bring like valuable relationships or valuable collaborations with you know certain um uh certain other projects, and this is something that we actively do and then you know some of the other. Things are they're sort of like very much tied with the product teams, and then you know many times. We feel that you know. Okay, we can promote carrot, but you can't really um yeah.

A

I don't know you, you can't really do anything with this externally, because the ui is not ready yet or sometimes we want to do. I don't know something with some with some other thing, and the problem is that we are sort of like dependent on um yeah on the product and you know the product. If the product stagnates then so, do we- um and this is I can tell this- is like some of the feelings that we have um so yeah.

F

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean this. I think, there's also like the the d style buckets itself right, which is uh like also colliding with like dx voice, uh so dig starts. F can do partnerships without like internal products right, um but that's that's limited. I think um yeah doing partnership with its own products has like way more, I mean, has way more impact for the exam, but I totally see your point about there. The products are not there yet I mean swapper is there and these bus is doing partnerships uh with hopper.

F

For example, I mean it's kind of working, but that's mainly it right. It's mainly swapper right now.

E

A

I mean it's very swapper and then you know I guess I have some things to say about. You know like the at least the thoughts of the the future of swapper, um so yeah.

F

What is the future of swapper.

A

um So yeah I like, I think, one of the one of the.

A

How do I say this without, like I don't know, maybe offending people, but you know one of the most difficult things to come back from in like if you build a website. Startup is like issuing the token too early um and I think that's sort of like the case with swapper, and then um you know this is not not to blame anyone specific, but this is you know this is what we've all been doing right like we said you know we launched swapper watch the token we do an airdrop.

A

We bring it to arbitrary, bring it to. You know, sort of like all these, uh like all this multi-chain world um and and yeah. I think right now, swapper is in a place where you know. If we are going to sustain it like, we will never know whether this actually has traction, and you know whether this can sustain itself um because yeah, it's you know deep style, will keep so like feeding it or feeding the people who work their salary. um Where you know the opposing view, sort of is.

A

I'll answer that question in a second, but you know the opposing view is saying: you know we incubate startups right and then it's before they launch their token. They seek outside validation, they raise money from external investors um and then um and then you know the sort of like battle in this open market of ideas um and yeah. They they need to prove themselves, they have kpis, they need to work on this. You know like full-time, it's it's. You know all of the things that come with like building a startup, which is you know, yeah.

A

What is the chewing glass and staring into the abyss um um and yeah? You know deep down was a part of that journey, and so I think, like that, sort of train or like that ship is sailed for swapper right, like you can't like you can't raise money now or I guess you can, but it's in a discount from the token, but the token is undervalued, because it's a bear market and it's like you, enter this yeah a complex issue um and yeah.

A

I guess to the question of I don't know talking too early or protocol too late, I'm assuming it's like a little bit of both.

E

So yeah and yeah.

A

And you know we're we're we're experimenting too here right, like I, I think we learned this is I'm. This is my take right, but you know we learned, or I learned that you know launching uh launching a product under the external and having its own token, that doesn't really, you know fully make sense in a way, and then you know, maybe a better more pragmatic way to move forward is to actually spin it out and so yeah and yeah items that you know feel free to chime in.

G

Hello, do you guys.

B

G

Now here we go yeah, um obviously looking at things now it makes sense right all of the stuff you're saying it's. It's super easy to see it now right. I think the only person that was against minting a token for swapper that early or minting at all was augusto.

G

I think so and- and I remember omen- was doing they're they're planning for a token at the same time, um but yeah I I guess I guess at that time uh arbitrary was launching we're planning to have a guild uh guild earlier than what happened.

G

uh I don't know if we would have made a different choice to be honest because things made sense at that time, right and now looking at it it it don't because we know the answers right.

G

So we have a couple of things that happen. That made us do that decision, and I yeah I guess. Maybe I don't know we should have a culture of of of um learning and adapting as as fast as possible. I don't know when and how we could have adapted like. Let's say we did that mistake and how? How could we, um let's say um done something differently?.

A

I I mean it's in hindsight right like I also like you know it made sense to me at the time right like we want um yeah. We we wanted to airdrop this on arby's room. We wanted to like lead there and that's that, but I think all things make sense. It's just in hindsight. We know that we made mistakes. You know, that's fine, I think with.

B

The information that we had back then I.

A

Think you know we made like a decent choice, um so yeah.

G

And so I I mean from the perspective of of distributing a governance token I would say we did a pretty good job. uh That was the main goal of the token. um From the perspective of uh I don't know, investing in an amm like we. Never we never actually marketed the swapper token as such. So if, if the token price um reflects the success of swapper, then then then yes, it's a might be a failure.

G

But if the distribution um of the token could also mark like another thing but yeah, we don't have the guilds so so yeah. We we can't really say. Oh, we succeeded with the token.

A

Yeah and I think like what adam wrote here, I think it's it's like it's the perfect encapsulation of you know. What I think is that you know product traction doesn't need a token, and I think this is if I'm, if I I'm taking something from swapper and I've, seen this with like other projects.

A

um It's you know if you launch a token before you have product market fit before you have users before people are using your product before there's some growth, then it's like you know, adding like gasoline to like a I don't know, broken engine. It's not it's not gonna affect you putting gasoline, it doesn't mean it's gonna drive faster, um so yeah.

F

Yeah, I think the chris's point on like strategic investors. Potentially we can get them on. I think that will require, like the um like, defining the future.

D

I think that's kind of interesting one, because I agree with nylon's like perspective of like kind of token too early, and now it's like hard to engage people or other groups, um but geeks out still has like whatever 80 percent of it, and so there could be a way of of finding. I think some people some other groups.

D

That may also be interested in having like a chunk of swapper, uh but I think bring this up only with the dx biz, like goals and things, because that would take so much effort to go out and like kind of find someone and basically like structure that deal, and I don't like know if it would be possible. I don't know if anyone would be interested in it, but then like to grano's point like well, if you're going to structure and sell something like what are you selling to them?

D

What is the vision that you're selling to these like strategic partners or investors, or maybe it's other dows or doing token swaps so like? I think there is an opportunity to do that, but it has to be like there has to be like a new thing to buy into, um and I don't know we're just actually talking on the swapper call before federico was talking about 4k udv3 as it comes out in may, and so I don't know if that could be like a key piece of some new vision to sell swapper.

A

Who would you think could be like some strategic investor right now or some.

D

I mean, I think, I'd start with people on gnosis right. So I think- and this is.

B

D

With gnosis you could you know, gnosis capacity and cow swap are all even separate, separate groups, um and you know obviously they're related and kind of you know different ones. But I wonder if there'd be some way of doing like a token swap with cow swap, for instance, um and that could maybe involve some dxd too I'm not really sure um and then like.

E

um And then I think like if you structured like I don't know if you could bring it.

D

To dc's in like the valley, but I think there would be maybe some investors that you could pass around and it would kind of be an attractive thing. I'm thinking a lot about, like you know when, like the layer, one blockchains when they launch their tokens like near avalanche and solana, a lot of them do these sales on, like they did say on like coin list, for instance, and then they still need to figure out like another way of basically like selling chunks of that to different groups.

D

And then they, you know, will get trade deaths to develop materials, so they can go and like pitch other investors. So like again, I think this would be like a lot of work, but it could be something that, like I don't know, geeks biz is doing but again like to your point earlier. Nylon like that would only happen with a vision on like where the product is going and how that kind of aligns.

A

Yeah yeah um yeah, I think, like in general. I think you know that you know geek style, we're so much so aligned with like gnosis and like what they're doing um so like, I guess we're on the gnosis chain. We, I think so um like I I think dxdow has like have at least half the team here is running like validators, like you know, validators, and I mean I said this to martin uh when I met him in paris and he was like.

A

Oh wow, I didn't know this um yeah, um and so I think, there's like a lot of synergy, and also I mean how swap technically is outside of gnosis right, but it's still sort of like in the family um and yeah. We basically built the front end for cause, which is like it's their holy grail of what they want um and yeah there's. Just like a lot of room for synergy and yeah, I don't know, maybe we could figure out like a deal or something or you wanted to say something general.

F

Yeah, like I saw um uni, swap approved deployment on gnosis chain. For me, that's basically like a death sentence for every v2 style amm products on gnosis chain, I'm not sure where they are with it. Can you actually trade on v3 unit swap v3 on closed chain.

D

I think the proposal has passed, but they have not deployed it yet.

F

And the fact that I mean gnosis.

D

E

F

In the big players right, yeah.

D

I mean, I think, if you look at swapper's liquidity.

D

Obviously, like the dx dow part is not going to leave, um the question is like will carparki leave.

D

They have a big chunk of the west gno and the juno xdi, and also like the wbtc one, um and then I actually think things like hopper will probably stay with the v2, because those projects with smaller projects have not really found the v3s to be that great for, um like a general liquidity pool, um and so like, I think the strategy, maybe in the medium term or short term, should be to hopefully still have dx biz, be able to engage groups like that.

D

That would be interested in like a v2 pool on gnosis chain, um but I assume that sometime before next may, which is when the uni v3 license can be um like expires or whatever you can. You can deploy it again. I assume that they will launch sometime before then. uh The question is, I guess, like how much traction would get on knows this june.

F

Yeah, for me, like ethereum, makes sense it's like a neutral land. um It's very costly gnosis chain is like mainly owned by gnosis, whatever dao, whatever um I'm I'm always struggling with, and that's not based on like past business decisions with them. It's it's mainly like um like that's that's not like does digstar deserve to be on on gross chain like is, that is that good land? Is it like, like future hot land for us? Is it and that's like important questions right like it's not.

G

F

Shitland, no I'm serious is it america like? Is it america? Should we go there? Can we like forever make money? There is it future proof was gnosis a great business.

F

I mean they're, also kind of transitioning into like down things right, but based on my like investment decisions, I believe there are uh other um opportunities and the question is like is gnosis chain is gnosis the best opportunity for us? I think I I raised that before and we and and I'm fine with like the like um hearing about the arguments for like gnosis chain but is: is it good land?

F

Is that land where we want to be in five years.

A

Yeah, that's a valid question: if sort of quarter code side chains are going to have value or it's all going to go to roll-ups, I guess.

A

I guess it's chris saying: ethereum is america, then what is yeah but.

D

Canada is really nice right, too,.

B

F

Yeah, so I mean we, I think the first thing we should do is like what land is like reachable uh and what gives us the best deal and then there's also like the question: should we build our own island right? I think it's. It's kind of the time to to do those like to uh find answer to those questions and evaluate for this current time uh is like. Should we thrive for something way, bigger than just being like an uh like?

F

I'm not talking about swapper, I'm talking about like d star's, future right, um it's all intertwined and it's very difficult to predict where, where we're heading, in my view, I I can't say that, but for me like the most attractive thing, going forward is like being sovereign and um ethereum was a great place for us being sovereign because it's like very good protected, but it's potentially like the future is unknown of ethereum, uh maybe l2s. But the question is like: should we just wait for something?

F

Should we wait for like a star which is pointing to great land, or does it make sense to build our lands, build our island.

A

Build our land.

F

You know like canto, like I'm, not chilling here, I'm just saying: what's what's going on in like the space right there, they are great experiments like kanto is trying to do something new by building like their own sovereign land by spinning up their own chain. uh How? How are we gonna spin up our own chain like we should? We should try to answer the question like do? We want to be completely sovereign grocers chain bought this sovereignty right? They just bought the dev team and they like owned this thing. Now they bought their land.

F

This is a smart move. It was an easy grab.

A

So do we have want to have our own chain that sort of I guess powered like similar to kanto? I was just like I don't know someone pulled me in the group fairly early on, uh but yeah. It's it's a cosmos chain right, but with evm. That's.

F

Right, I guess.

A

F

Yeah, I don't know like again. um I know there are ethereum uh maxis and I respect them even in this call- and these are like uh yeah.

B

F

Earned a lot of from this um there's also this discussion about ethereum tools right. This is still like. Some I'm not saying like app chains are the future, but I think we should uh do our own evaluation, like with a very clear like technical decision making what is out there and like. If you look at um dydx, I think they made a very clear decision of where they're going right. They have a product, they have product market fit and they say like okay, we just gonna own like the whole.

F

The whole thing now by like setting.

A

Up something I would I would say their reasoning is, is legal and I had to fit about this- that you know sort of like proliferated but yeah like it's legal arbitrage.

F

I mean baby, but if the whole stack is kind of not in their hands right by run by someone else like the order book in the mempool.

E

F

On the chain like I I'm potentially like the the the main goal was to like get get clearance of of legal, but the end results are like they uh I'm not sure if they will own like uh most of the coins.

F

A

So this is interesting, so what will like, if this is an app chain? What will our app chain be? Is it going to be like a governance chain or.

F

So they are like different things. We need to deliver right, like one thing is like the governance, the gov to know like. If we don't deliver this, we we're basically um and like one opportunity, would be to do that as like an evm contracts for like app chains, it doesn't need to be it can like good thing with the solidity surface, it can be deployed everywhere right, so it like it doesn't matter where it lives.

F

So once we have that uh it kind of is a great opportunity to like maybe spin up our land right with goff 2.0. This is like crazy ideas, but maybe we need crazy ideas now and.

B

Yeah, I'm not saying.

F

Shitty cosmos, I I really don't care like what what I care about is that d star is like sovereign on their lands and the only place we we are solving right now is kind of ethereum, but we are paying rent.

A

E

A

Is like, I think this is like a super interesting um yeah thing to explore. I wonder if, like I think, some of the thesis right is that you know governance 2.0 is we're not going to be the only ones who are using it so um whether it could somehow work that you know the entire governance structure is built into the consensus mechanism of this chain right and then anyone could you know sort of like out? I don't know, use this for their own governance, not sure.

A

If, like you know, this completely makes sense, but you know imagine there's like an app chain and it's called like governance, 2.0 and then uh gnosis could use sort of like this app chain to govern themselves like it will have. Different parameters, will have different token holders and everything, but yeah like they would use the product, that's backed by the centralized uh yeah 100 nodes that are run by the excel folks.

F

But they will benefit most of it if we have success right, so we are sharing our like our rewards.

A

I mean the rewards are going to, uh um I mean they're, going to people who are running nodes, no.

F

Not if they own, like 60 of I don't, I don't actually know how much gnosis really owns of gino. Oh, I think they burned it right.

A

No, no, I mean I mean, like think of this, the the it's called whatever dxd chain right and then the back end is a cosmos chain. There are 100, validators and they're running sort of like the back into this chain, and then other chains or like sort of like um other dows, could use this governance system from this chain. I don't know if that will actually work or how.

F

Yeah yeah, I'm not I'm not sure, like I'm personally, not bullish on governance as a business. uh I think this is not gonna work. It's basically like uh privacy technology, privacy like zcash, it's it's a tool, but it's not a good business model. Maybe this will change in the future now with like tornado cash going on. But uh if we just do this kind of interesting experiment like 2.0 needs to be happening right like and then the question like. Do we actually know where we're going to deploy that?

F

Do we just deploy it on with your mainnet? Does it make sense, I would say, like the castle, we have is kind of uh just just working. Well, it's very costly, and it's great that we have it. I think it will run for a long time the castle on ethereum, but it's kind of deprecated right.

F

It's um and then the question is like: should the star just like deploy after bono on anything mainnet and then like the long process of transitioning into like this new castle will happen, I'm not sure if we we should like move all the funds to do to gov 2.0 like in the next six months. It will be very long process and then we actually didn't evaluate like does that make sense?

F

Why does it again make sense to create our own land talk to the rest of the world, uh pay validators, our own validators and then like deliver guf 2.0, and everyone moves to like this new thing. The new castle- and we have a lot of land on on the on the new thing right doesn't need to be cosmos chain can be ever anything I don't mind. I just I just care about sovereignty now, and these dogs are disovering.

A

So I mean, I think we a little bit derailed the conversation, but I I think this is super interesting to explore. um I will say that I think some of the stuff that we talked about in sort of like the dxp exp working group is that many times um the exile chooses to do something on their on its own. Instead of like collaborating and working with like existing products, existing projects and other people that are building- and you know what you're mentioning here is- is totally on that.

A

You know dick style will do it on their own instead of tapping into the composability of ethereum and, like the other things that are happening here and yeah.

F

I mean, did it worked out? Well I mean you could argue what what was the reason like sure like composability is, uh is like the biggest benefit. Ethereum has right now. um Definitely um you could argue. We are just like and making products, maybe um but maybe they're, because the base layer is not under our own control.

A

I mean I mean this is an interesting discussion to have, but you know what counts like what? What difference will that make that we on the base layer.

F

We we are sovereign, like uh everything we do on gnosis chain is basically prognosis chain.

A

I mean so we could go to like arbitrary and go to just ethereum like this is like I I mean there's like I think, there's like varying degrees of sovereignty and like what you want and what you need, and I don't think yeah I mean I think ethereum supplies that well enough and if we go to diagnosis chain or arbitrary, like it's also a trade-off right, but it's you know we're still solving and we'll still sort of, like I don't know, building on other people's stuff, so yeah.

F

I agree with you, like, I agree with you, but we need to have this conversation right like we need to like if this, if everyone agrees like this, is just way too heavy lifting this is just like way too far goal. We will not like no, let's, let's not build our own land, but let's decide what is the best like land, where we, where we actually could take ownership like deploying um a contract on on gross chain, will not give us ownership of the chain validates us individual.

F

They they will receive gnosis tokens and they will own some of the land. But not these, though right.

A

Yeah I mean yeah, I I don't know this is, I guess.

F

It's quite clear: kickstart will not on knows this chain.

A

E

A

We could get rewarded with some gno tokens theoretically,.

F

Exactly if the landlord gives the approval.

A

Yeah or you know, we could also use like something else like arbitrary water. I don't know exactly.

F

Exactly we, we need to look at what is available and like what is the best partner we can get if these, if these are the size, gnosis chain, is the best partner we like which is out there. Then we should double down and grow this chain right, but do we do this?

F

Do we do we know what is out there like one other example is uh like again no no shilling here, but there's an evm chain called fmos who will pay deployers of smart contracts, fmos tokens, which is basically like uh gino right, so we could theoretically uh consider deploying products on there which will give us ownership of the chain, I'm not sure how much, but in my view, that is a better deal right like owning. uh The the blockchain token, which which also includes like validators, is a better deal.

F

If gnosis would do something similar, that would make sense for me, then we will share the the rewards of our work with them, but also like receive it, and then there's darkware, like I'm not sure, like uh dydx, moved away from stock, where the the the distribution was completely crazy. Landlord style like baby.

A

F

Ownership of it at all, which is like uh it's it's kind of yeah. I don't understand this, but maybe that's like the corporate world joining this game.

A

um Yeah, I don't know so yeah interesting things to talk about and I think like we're a bit over time but um yeah I mean I like this discussion and I hope that maybe we can take the time in the next even a couple of weeks and don't talk about doing just talk about like thoughts and planning and um and ideas.

E

A

Yeah I mean genre, I agree with you the crazier, the idea like the better. It will expand their horizons to what we can do and there aren't any ideas where stupid. Basically.

A

B

A

I don't know if there's anything else, I'm gonna stop the recording people, wanna yeah.

G

I'll stop it in a second.