Eclipse Che Conferences/Talks/Demos, 5 May 2021

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Cloud Chat • Eclipse Che (Episode 1)

Description

Cloud Chat Host Jesse Williams kicks off the first episode of the new series by ECD Tools discussing Eclipse Che with Mario Loriedo, Eclipse Che Project Lead.

Get Social!
Website: https://ecdtools.eclipse.org/
Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/user/EclipseF...
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ECDTools
Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/eclipse.org/
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/ecd...
Tag us: #EclipseFdn #ECDTools #CloudChat

A

Hello, everyone welcome to episode one of cloud chat, a twitch series where we explore the trends and projects in open source cloud development. Cloud chat is brought to you by the eclipse cloud devtools working group, which is part of the eclipse foundation. You might know the eclipse foundation from the popular desktop ide and though this project continues.

A

The cloud dev tools working group is focused on the next generation cloud native tools, if you're interested in learning more about the ecd, which is what we're probably going to refer to the eclipse cloud development tools working group in this series as visit ecdtools.eclipse.org, my name is jesse williams and I'm your host today, I'm joined by mario mario, is the project lead for eclipse che, which is a project in the ecd tools, working group and he's a software engineer at red hat.

A

He is the architect for code, ready workspaces and for eclipse che so mario. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm excited to uh hear hear more about eclipse j, you. You might not know this, but I was actually part of the project long before uh it joined the eclipse foundation. Back then, uh it was part of a product that we called code envy and I think that was back in 2012.

A

Probably so it's been a long time I've you know kind of kind of kept track of the project coming in and out of working with it a little bit at red hat and now back on this project, but I'm really excited to hear about what's going on uh and what's new, so thank you so much for joining us.

A

B

You jesse thank you for for having me.

A

Yeah, of course, so uh I guess to kick it off, I'm familiar with uh eclipse j, but I imagine people who are watching right now aren't familiar. So can you give us a brief overview of the project.

B

Yeah sure so I've I've started contributing to uh eclipse che five years ago. So it's a project that as a uh some some history, so it's it's been a few years that we have been developing it um and I think that five years ago there has been this transition to use containers for as a base for an ide, so that that was the the basic idea beyond that.

B

So using uh containers to make development, repeatable development environments and um with with an ide included that will actually run in the browser, so che is as a manager of ide that are powered by containers in kubernetes. So today it's it's fully kubernetes native, so we run che, runs on kubernetes and the workspaces, including the ide, runs as a kubernetes spot. So on the user developer will be able to access it through their browser.

A

So the the idea and the concept of a browser-based editor is certainly nothing new, but you're actually talking about the environment behind the editor as well. How does that actually work.

B

Yeah sure so uh yeah, that's it's not new in the sense that we we're seeing more and more of our application that are running in the in the browser. So we have uh more and more tabs in our browser, open uh and yeah and and the the ide is something that is is not until now hasn't been running in one of our tabs. So it's what we are we're trying to do is, as uh is moving the ide as well, and uh and make it running in the browser so on how it works.

B

It's actually, it uh starts a container ink. So in kubernetes, so once you once, I use once a user um request through an http request clicking in his browser. It requests a new development environment.

B

uh Che will start a kubernetes pod that has a few containers in it, and one of those containers will run an ide and editor and the default one is the default editor that we use is eclipse tia and other containers will be used so that the developer, via this browser will be able to access to to get a shell in other containers. So they will be able to build and run um is his application.

A

Got it yeah that that makes sense, so can you, I guess, tell me this: what's so valuable about having the ide in the browser? Is it um like a google docs style peer programming type of type of deal, or is it zero configuration? What what are what are? uh I guess, customers, but also people who just are individual users. You know why are they starting to adopt browser-based ides.

B

I I think, yeah. I think that the the three most important feature are, first of all, let's make starting a development environment. Incredibly easy. So it's just you click. You click a link and you you got everything set up um and you don't have to install local dependency. You only need to have a browser, so that's the first step. The second thing that is really valuable, especially for our customer for red hat customers, is that it it makes the development environment much more secure uh because developer doesn't need.

B

The developers doesn't need to uh download source code locally on their machine. They don't need to uh deploy to install uh dependencies or uh development tools in their machine. Everything is defined and and uh controlled, and it's in the um in in the kubernetes will run in a kubernetes pod. So it's what a developer is able to do as uh as limited is more limited, uh but on at the same time, so it's uh powerful because uh we will talk about it.

B

I think it's a developer is able to define his um his workspace, how how whatever he wants. So, however, you want, but he needs to actually go through um a ch check check out of uh uh the code, and then you need to uh provide the uh a def file what it calls that file. So a definition of the chair workspace that will uh will help him to start. So that's the the third um benefit is that those environment are repeatable.

B

So uh if I define a development environment, my colleague on my team will be able to reuse the same definition easily.

A

Yeah, that makes sense, so uh I I guess, can I put you on the spot and ask for a a demo yeah.

B

Sure so let me switch to my browser.

B

Okay, so I will.

B

So the first thing is so I will have a um I can workspace already started here. Is it's uh um I'm running in my browser? So, as you see um a full id, it's a complete id. uh That is, that is where I've created. um So whatever I have uh uh cloned um a git repository. So that's the uh a spring boot example that left here. So it's so what I will show is that you, you will have um here whatever you will expect from so you have code completion, for example.

B

So what I'm, showing you is code completion you you will you'll have code completion in your browser. You will be able uh to actually see documentation and you can you can do code navigation, you, you have some the possibility of doing refactoring uh and many other things that you will expect from an ide. So I'm just showing it right now. So what the other thing is. So it's it's really like um visual code.

B

So, uh for example, you you have access to a command palette, and if I want to change the theme of my uh editor here, I can just uh yeah select the command collet and the team and change. So it's yeah. It's pretty pretty, it should be pretty familiar for uh people that are used to views to a code so, and the other thing is that um the we are compatible with the api of the vs local extensions.

B

So we are potentially able to run uh any visual code extension and that will run in a container and uh the developers they will be able to use it from from his browser.

B

So the the other thing I wanted to show is that let me stop this uh this workspace here, and what I will will do is that I will show how easy is it to start a new workspace? So here I have a github repository where I have a link that I can uh select. So if I click on it, I will actually create a workspace um of that uh of that git repository that will run in my browser uh that will, I will be able to uh run the application and.

A

Edit, the code.

B

So yeah, that's uh that's it for it's one and I think that's that's it for that for demo. I don't think I will do more than that.

A

Yeah, that's awesome. It's you know, it's really everything that you would expect from a local ide.

B

Yeah yeah absolutely.

A

um All right, so let me ask you this. I guess when you were showing me that the first thing that came to mind really was um with everything that's going on with with kovid, globally and and how many people are working remotely. uh Have you seen a big increase in in usage or activity around che? It seems like it's. It's the perfect project product to really, you know solve some of those issues.

B

Yeah, that's that's true. So we've seen we've seen uh an increasingly number of uh demands of customer that actually have their employees. uh There are developers working from home and uh they wanted a more efficient way to uh remote development. So they are. Those customers are usually customers that are um using vms for their developers.

B

So a developer needs to connect to the vpn uh start a remote desktop on a vm and start coding on the remote desktop, so that that solution, the solution to have that the id in the browser- uh it's it's much better, so it's uh the user experience is is much better, is really similar to a local, um local, ide, so yeah that that was no surprise that we we had more more uh ask for for that uh yeah, given that more and more people are working from home.

A

Yeah, that makes sense um yeah cool, uh so I guess let's get back to actually talking about che and and sorry for that little bit of a rabbit trail, but with uh with the browser-based ide is kind of gaining in popularity. You know we've seen um different things you, you know you have like uh git pod, for instance, I know they're out there, you've got um microsoft now has uh github code spaces, and these are starting to get some uh attention.

A

You know what does it actually look like you know the I guess competitive landscape for lack of a better word for uh for uh cloud ides.

B

Yeah uh we we we've been doing that for the last uh yeah four or five years, um but yet today we're seeing that there are more and more companies that are investing in and ids, especially of github and and code spaces.

B

With respect to to code spaces. uh The the the difference is that chase um is completely open, sourced or sold, and it's it's something that uh you can install locally on your laptop or you can install on your cloud or your in your enterprise cloud. So it's it's just requires a kubernetes and it can install and run on any kubernetes.

B

um So there are, there are other solutions of services available out there, but uh yeah che is uh the the one that, since the beginning, is something that you can deploy on prem or uh or locally the other. The other thing that distinguish um chase it's, that everything is re-based on containers, in the sense that if you have a if you use containers uh for deploying your for running your application in production, you can actually reuse that container in your uh development environment to test your application from within uh your development environment.

B

And that's that's pretty cool, um so that's! That's has been so that has some uh things that we've been working and we're trying to improve um so in the sense that we're moving from a paradigm that initially was a development environment is like a vm. A developer can do install whatever tools he wants to the container, uh a paradigm of a development environment that is based on containers, so you you're, not inst. So if you want to update your development environment, you need to update the docker file. That is behind that.

B

So you need to rebuild the image. You are not going to just install that and you can compose with multiple sidecars. We can have multiple tools or multiple runtimes in your development environments, using containers, yeah.

A

Yeah, that's so that's so fascinating! You know, I think it's um it's really cool. You know we have all of our infrastructure being defined as code right now and you know, with modern applications and to now see dev environments essentially being defined as code for lack of a better word um yeah. It seems like it's just one more way to make developers incredibly agile.

A

You mentioned a little bit. uh You know using thea as the editor for che. Can you talk to me a little bit about that because yeah, uh you know how do people actually use that it's a complimentary project? You know as far as project relationships go um you know what does that actually look like.

B

Yeah, that's something that we have decided a couple of years ago uh to change our default uh editors that was based on eclipse orion uh before and on uh on grid on a grid ide.

B

We decided to actually uh contribute uh and to tia to start contribute to tia to make it possible to use it uh as an editor for che. uh So now the default editor is tia. That means that uh it's not the only one you you can.

B

You can um select another editor if you want, so we are we're currently supporting intellij. So there have been some requests. We support intellij.

B

Well, then um also there is a poc of running the uh desktop eclipse ide uh in in, in that that means that um the the ide will so those desktop ides will run in a container and um will be their uh ui will be exposed uh on on on the browser um and the the the developer will be able to interact with from the browser, and the source code will be mounted in in a persistent volume in the kubernetes pod, so it will be uh available from the from from those ids.

B

uh So, for is the one that has been as more so as it has been built to run in the browser. So it's it's the ideal um editor for for 4k.

A

Now uh you don't have to use thea right. So that's why I'm? What I'm gathering from that um does does chase support the the che environment? Does that support any ide or are are only specific ides and I'm, I guess I'm mainly asking for developers who want to stick with their. You know very loved local editor that they've set up and they've configured. Can they still use the environment or do they have to move to a browser-based ide.

B

Well, the yeah, that's a good question: uh no, they they can continue using. So there are a couple of things. um The first thing is that they can still use their editor or ide locally and synchronize the source code with a j workspace that is running remotely so that the chair workspace will run the containers of production containers and will you the developer will be able to test his application in kubernetes running in kubernetes, even if it's editing the source code locally.

B

The second thing is about running the editor or ide inside a container and make it then available through vnc or another protocol to to make it possible to access the the graphical uh interface from the ide. uh And that's that's, uh that's technically, it's possible. uh The problem of that approach is that the a desktop id hasn't been designed for to run in a browser.

B

uh So you, you may have some some problems uh to do that, so, as the technology needs to be um built for the for the web, so like visual code or tia, these are web technologies. uh Those editors use web technology, so they run perfectly in the browser.

A

Got it yeah that that makes a lot of sense? um You, you mentioned a little bit about what red hat's investing into uh chase, so I know that they've taken the project and they've productized it into something called code ready workspace. Is that correct.

B

A

B

Yeah, we have that's code, ready workspaces, we've released it um about uh one year ago, one year and a half ago, we've done the first release of quadratic phases that is based on on eclipse j.

A

What uh what's different about the the product and the project? What is red hat added to it, to bring it to market so.

B

The there are not a lot of differences, um mainly because everything that is required for our customers on code ready workspaces. We first uh build it on the eclipse j uh project. So if there is a new feature request, we, instead of uh only building it implementing it for cool, ready workspace, we first implement that on eclipse j and then we we downstream it to cause ready workspaces.

B

So that means that most of the features, uh so all of the feature uh mainly of uh eclipse j, will be found on uh coverage. Workspace, quadratic workspaces has a couple of uh things. uh Differences first is is that is uh it. Everything is based on red hat images, so the base images of the containers uh so tia, for example, will run on a redox based container uh so and every all the tools plugins. So the language support will all run inside cars.

B

They will actually be uh red up containers, and that is important, because that means that rod will be able uh to provide support for those, because that's something that we control completely so we'll build uh build from every every bit of the of those containers. So we are we, we control everything that is in those containers, so that makes it possible uh so to have the support. So the support the sport is, of course, the second uh difference that a customer has if they choose to uh to use code, ready workspaces.

A

That makes sense. Have you seen you know, how have you seen red hat's contribution to che impact, the project itself.

B

Do you mean, as a as a contribution that we have done as a consequence of like customer requests? That's.

A

um No I'm more asking you know how I guess the better way to say that is how has red hat's involvement with eclipse che. You know, because of their investment into code, ready workspaces. How has that impacted the upstream project che.

B

Well, we we so we try to make so eclipse j as a neutral as possible. uh It's like an eclipse foundation project. So it's we. We don't have anything uh so we decouple everything that is related to the red hat from the upstream project and the, but the the. I think that the uh the biggest contribution that we have provided in the last years have been around the support for uh enterprise use cases.

B

So I mean when a customer wants to run che or code ready workspaces in in his uh in his cloud in his private cloud, you will probably need yeah. It will probably have some um configuration of proxies or uh untrusted tls certificates uh or like a firewall that will make it uh will make the docker hub or inaccessible.

B

So we have been working a lot uh to make those scenario possible. So now a customer is able um to use his own certificate uh with tls certificates uh having a proxy or having a firewall and and uh chair and code reward phases uh are actually configurable to work on those scenarios got.

A

It, okay, that makes sense, uh is, is anyone else contributing to uh to che as far as enterprise go.

B

Yeah there have been a lot of companies that have been uh contributing to che uh so today there there are a few um product based on on che. uh One is so broadcom, for example, is, is, uh is building an ide based on based on che. um There have been uh sap as well, has been contributing and has been building uh an ide uh based on.

B

uh Then we have a a few con so, like I, I've looked before before the the interview actually uh looked at the the different contributors uh that we had uh last year, so in 2020 and I've looked at the uh all the developers that have been contributing, even just with opening an issue etc, and those are around 80 companies of coming from 80 different companies.

B

So that's a quite active and uh project and we have uh yeah a lot a lot of people coming um to try to try che or even then contributing and help me make it any better.

A

Yeah, oh, that's amazing um yeah. I guess so I'm I that actually makes me curious about some of the community numbers. Do you have any other uh community numbers to to share around engagement and readers.

B

uh No, I don't, I don't have any other number, so I just can provide you. So I was looking yesterday. For example, I was looking at the number of uh prequests that we we have done in the last uh couple of sprees, so we do a sprint.

B

um We do a sprint every every three weeks and uh in the last print we have like 150 requests merged so yeah that that gives you the the idea of the activity of the project. So we have yeah. Well, if you want to follow the activity, it's hard for one person to follow all the activities, I mean the issues and and the prequests created on on github. uh That's pretty challenging.

A

Yeah yeah, I I I totally understand I remember uh kind of being in that spot, where you're trying to track it. It is a little bit difficult.

B

A

For so maybe I guess here's a question that that I've heard a lot of other project leads ask and um it's really around how how to grow a project so jay. For the most part, we could say that it's a fairly successful project. You know the community is thriving, you've got enterprise contributions happening and then you also just have uh individual contributions happening, but you know what are you guys doing to actually grow awareness of the project and to keep the community healthy and uh thriving.

B

Yeah the the thing that we try to do so there are a couple of things. So, first we try to be to do uh everything that we do. We do it in the open. So in the sense that we are not, we have a mailing list and we usually when we we want to introduce new changes that may impact others.

B

We tried to ask that before so we uh we discussed that in the in a million list or yeah, and we we usually make sure that the different teams that contribute to che we won't want to uh make their roadmap their uh backlog available for everyone. The second thing is uh that we're trying to work on uh external contribution, for example, if somebody created an issue, we usually don't assign that to a rada team, the issue we assign that to an area so that, if somebody wants to pick it, it doesn't feel like it already.

B

It is. It's already been assigned to a team, but it's just it's belong to to something that we call an aria, and uh so that makes make it easy for teams to track their areas. uh But that makes it also more welcoming for uh external contributors to uh to take an issue and work on it.

A

Yeah, that makes sense. So let me ask you this. uh So two questions actually um one: how can someone get involved with che? So that's the first question and then two if I was someone who's completely new to open source and I'm watching this right now and I want to make a pull request against one of the issues for che.

A

Are there issues that I could contribute to uh that aren't way over my head, or you know, I need um a lot of background to actually work on other. Are there, I guess maybe um issues that are friendly for newer developers or junior developers.

B

Yeah so sure, so I think that um for for the first question, so if somebody wants to learn more and um it just need to go on our github git repository- and we have all the information- where is our main list and most important? Is our mattermost chat, so our matter most channel on the eclipse matter most?

B

uh And that says probably the answer for the second question is: if somebody wants to contribute the easiest way. Probably is one look at the issues that are open. um We we have a label like um that is uh ready for like first issue or uh remember what is the the right label, but it's it's something like that.

B

um We it's easy to filter issues that are for beginners for people that are don't know and if, if it makes, if it may still be uh difficult to find the right issue, so maybe asking on on matter most uh that would be so you will. You will get help uh right away, because there is always somebody on the on our mattermost.

A

Got it awesome, well I'll drop links to all of those places into the chat right now, so the matter most as well to the github repository and also to the uh eclipse che uh just marketing website, so that people can go there and get links to everything else. So uh thanks so much mario, I uh it was great hearing about che and where the project is it's really excited to. You know it's really exciting to see that it's still thriving, that it's going places and uh yeah it's cool to see who's contributing to it.

B

Cool yeah. Thank you jesse. Thank you for having me.

A

Of course, well have a great day, and I look forward to talking again.

B