GitHub Open Source Friday, 7 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: Open Source Friday: Project Contour

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Join us live for Open Source Fridays at https://www.meetup.com/GitHub-Virtual-Meetup

This is our VOD (recording) from the Open Source Friday live stream on the 7th August 2020, 2pm AEST. We spoke with Nick Young of Project Contour to hear the ins and outs of the project, how to get involved in Open Source, and good-first-issues.

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A

Hello, hello welcome, welcome everyone to our open source, friday, australia edition. How are we all going today? Welcome it's friday for those in australia, new zealand, it's probably thursday night for anyone tuning in from america, so fantastic to? Have you all here with us? We've got a great treat for you all here today: hey pink ham. How are you going great to see you here again? uh We have, as I mentioned, we've got a really good trip here today.

A

um Every friday, we're talking to really cool maintainers people are doing some really awesome, open source projects and we're very excited today to have project contour with us. So I'm excited who's excited everyone's excited right, all right. So, let's get into it. Let's introduce our special guest for today, so we have nick young from project contour nick. How are you doing today.

B

Yeah not too bad.

A

Awesome awesome now here, nick you're in sydney is that right.

B

Yes, I am yeah yeah yeah, okay,.

A

So so you kind of missed out on the the crazy lockdown restrictions and stuff.

B

My blessings, that's for sure.

A

Oh definitely, I know there's a few of us who are a bit what's going on here in melbourne, but we're okay, we're going we're going. Fine, um actually, a question that we've kind of started off on is you know with the lockdowns happening and things have you noticed in yourself um that you're that you're working more or that your project is working well we'll get into the project, but just start us off. Have you been working more since lockdown.

B

I I actually haven't, because I was actually working. I've been revoking remotely for about a year even before this whole thing started. um Ever since I came to work on produce, contour I've been working remotely and.

A

B

Yeah I mean that hey, I had a really great home office set up set up, although this is not currently my real home office. This is my temporary one. It's.

A

A fake one, yeah.

B

Yeah yeah but uh yeah. I had a chance to really settle in and get myself a really good home office that I had to destroy to move house but um but yeah, and it meant that I was all ready to go and had some pretty good rules for myself around working from home.

A

Nice, nice, well speaking, of project content. Would you like to introduce project contour and maybe a little bit about some of your experiences and background as well.

B

Sure sure so, project contour is an ingress controller for kubernetes. um We. uh That means that when you're running your kubernetes clusters, we focus on bringing traffic into your cluster to get to your services um and there's a lot of different controllers. um You know the one that most people, think of is the nginx have an ingress controller.

B

That's kind of a default one and project contour was built to make some things about the ingress experience a little easier, particularly when you're running services in pride- and you know you want to have a cluster- that's shared by a bunch of people and you don't want it stopping all over each other. um So we'll come back to that in a minute, though yeah.

B

For me, um I, um although, although my name is young, I'm actually older than I look and I've been doing this tech video for 20 years or so now, um so I've been assist admin. I I think I qualify as a krusty 67 these days, um but uh yeah I've been doing various sysadmin things for a long time uh and uh before working in contour, I was actually working for atlassian's kubernetes team, um yeah yeah.

B

It was pretty cool um and uh we had a real great opportunity to build some cool tech there um and before I came to work on some other cool techie.

A

Yeah, I liked it they're cool people, great people, another awesome, aussie startup, that's just done amazingly well, so yeah.

B

Yeah absolutely yeah and uh yeah. We got to use some really cool kubernetes stuff, very early on in the lifetime of kubernetes, so um yeah, okay, myself, super lucky.

A

Yeah, that's awesome so for anyone in the chat, I've linked the github project, contour link as well, we'll get into a little bit more about that too. But um how did you get involved in open source to start off with nick before we jump more into opening up project contour.

B

So um you know I've been, I mean I've been using open source for a long time. I remember, I think, the first time that I built um a proper linux box was in the late 90s um I built uh I was working for like uh I was doing rt consulting at the time, and I was like the it guy for a few small businesses.

B

I came into this small business and they had a um they had a windows ntbox running a 9600 board modem that would dial up to the internet whenever someone asked for some internet stuff, and that was what was actually serving their website. So if there was no one in the office for long enough, then their website would actually go down.

A

B

I built in this custom linux box. Sorted them out with an isdn line, had a whole bunch of stuff running and all this stuff so that their website wouldn't go down.

A

B

They can actually notice.

A

This stuff, yeah yeah I've been doing yeah, definitely hashtag linux, strongers or someone's booking. It's great.

B

Like um only yeah, I.

A

Look a lot um a lot younger than what I actually am um so the opposite to you, but yeah. Definitely the days of dial-up and just crazy. I remember um like I do a little twitch streaming as well, so one of my twitch streams were chatting about dial up and I was like: let's go: listen to the dial-up sound just for some good old days. uh We pulled it up from youtube. I think it's got like 16 million views or something.

B

A

Dial-Up sound, I was like.

B

Yeah good signer.

A

It's really terrifying.

B

What's really terrifying is when you can tell what speed the modem is connecting at by the dial-up sound.

A

Yeah yeah, I was the day, I'm so glad we don't have to deal with dial up anymore. Could.

B

You imagine that.

A

In the pandemic, right now.

B

Yeah when, uh when we moved into this uh our sort of temporary place, while we're renovating um my kids have been at me like dad dad, why is there no wi-fi in our bedrooms like dude, so I just got to set up the extra access point. Give me a little bit. You know like where's, our wi-fi.

A

Yeah, it was back in the day. It's like sorry, you can't be on the internet and the phone at the same time like.

B

Yeah, try telling.

A

The kids that, like they.

B

Just I've tried to talk to them about that before, and they just give me this look like what.

A

But the thing is it wasn't that long ago, oh, I know.

B

A

Realize but then there's this whole generation of people just grew up completely without internet. That's like.

B

Yeah well now pause for a moment. While I make the old man heals a cloud position.

A

Oh, it's great. Well, let's get into a little bit more about project contour, so um I mentioned a little bit about what it is, but how did it actually start the project.

B

It actually, it actually was started by um by joe bidder and cheney um when that when they were both at heptio and so heftier was a big kubernetes provider and the, and so some of their customers were finding that uh using the kubernetes ingress model, didn't work for production uses, sometimes because there's there's a few ways with kubernetes ingress, where you can stomp all over each other accidentally, I mean obviously when you're running a real theme in production.

B

You really don't want anybody to accidentally be able to take keywords, that's bad um and so uh yeah. So that's where it came from is that uh you know to sort of build our own ingress controller. That would uh sort of address some of the the bigger scale issues that you have with running kubernetes ingress when it's not just you know when you're not running something but you're, just sort of kicking the tires off.

A

B

And so yeah from there um you know the thing that we've that dave started and that we that I've tried to keep is that it's designed to be a pretty tightly focused tool. You know it's designed to just to ingress. You know we don't you know if you uh when we, when we check click around the website later in our sort of philosophy document that I wrote a little while ago.

B

The first thing in there is contour is not a service mesh, so you know because we use we actually implement this using envoy which lots of people use for service meshes and so a lot of the time. I'm sort of saying yeah contour implements an ingress controller using envoy and people like. So it's a service mesh. It's like no.

A

B

It's not so that's why it's number one on the list, but so um the sort of the basic idea is to take a lot of the goodness. That onward gives you as a proxy and.

A

B

You to use that to get your traffic into your kubernetes clusters and get them to the services that you know the application developers actually care about product, which is the actual service that you're running. When you say, please run my app inside kubernetes.

A

Yeah, well speaking around the website, let's go: let's go click around. So if we look here, this is your um your product page on github. um So again I like to look at cool nice places and people often say you know, what's a good example of a readme. This is a great example of a readme um for an open source project.

A

So um I'll move this this open source variety out of the way someone can see, um but one of the things I'll say is: you know um good overview of the project, um how to get started because as an open source project and we'll talk about this and I'm gonna, ask you some tips and advice for the audience um how to get started, how to contribute, uh especially if you're, like just learning here for the first time, a little bit about what it is and then um like a bunch of links and stuff.

A

But this is almost like your landing page um for a website, so um I, like it very much yeah so um all right. So where would you like to start how about we talk about um right so say if I'm a um a maintainer or I'm looking to get into open source, so I'm not maintaining a contributor, I'm looking to get into open source. If I landed here, what would you be wanting me to do and what would be your tips and tricks for me as a first.

B

Time, contributor yeah, so if you want to, if you feel like hey this contour thing, sounds pretty cool I'd be like a bit chuffed to be honest, but aside from that yeah, um the uh the thing that I that I really like is, if you have a read of the document and then down the bottom, we've got the you know the contributing section yeah.

A

B

Yo step one read our code of conduct: make sure you.

A

Very good go to code of conduct, yeah.

B

Yeah, um you know this is yeah. This is based on the cncf.

A

One it's a pretty.

B

You know standard conduct. Basically it's summed up in wheaton's rule, you know, don't you dig um and.

A

uh Yeah yeah pretty.

B

Much um and uh but yeah, then then, after that we have, uh we have a couple of guides about contributing yeah contributing.md is the github center way of doing it, and so yeah, that's what we use on yeah. We use tco sign off, which just requires you sign your commits.

B

You know, but then you know, we've got the you know: here's how you get. This is your first source, here's how you build all that sort of stuff um yeah and then once it comes time to actually look for something to do once. You've got the thing building and you've tried it out, um yeah um well, actually, yeah. One thing that is important that uh that's in here is. I tried to have I've sort of updated this a couple of times since I started.

B

I really wanted to have a good uh sort of example of what we were looking for like commit messages.

A

Oh yeah, you got a commit message: template.

B

Yeah yeah so, like you know he here's what we're kind of looking for when it comes to that, so that we can you know, so we don't have to do a couple of tries backwards and forwards more.

A

Projects need to do this have a commit template, but this is what we talk about with a lot of our travelers when we talk about like good coding practices and like building good culture around your um your code. In your.

B

A

This is it it's great.

B

See one of one of the things that I really wanted to put in there was that if you see you see in the temple, it's got like imperative mood, short description, so you know it's a bit of a wanky way to put it, but it's you know like the.

B

The reason is that when you look at the commit log, if you have everything in the imperative mood which is like you know, as in the second bit add book functions rather than I did this or something like that, then, when you read the commit log, it's clear this commit. Does this and so that's why that's why it seems odd to be picky about the way the sentence is written, but what it means is that, later on, when someone's looking at the git log, it makes it much easier to read.

A

Yeah you're, going through a whole lot, you go and see what happens. I went to a really good talk. Actually it was the last irl conference. I went to.

B

A

Rubyconf and one of the um girls that talked about documentation and how basically documentation can literally like your code, can live or die by documentation, and she has some really funny examples about like how it can all go wrong um and.

B

A

Is just this is great like, and this is what we talk about like you know, this is the reason why we have the commit function and what you don't just commit a commit, a piece of code or commit um a new change. You actually can comment on it to make it meaningful. um Yeah.

B

A

Yeah this is, this is really cool. I like it.

B

Yeah yeah, and so that's and that's why we've got you know a little bit about. You know how we, how the how we, the maintainers like, merge your pr's when you we do squash and merge rather than creating merge, commits or anything like that, so that again so that the commit history reads better um and you know that sort of stuff, and then you know, explains about how how the ci works and how you can run the equivalent of the cia locally. A few other things like that, I'm actually yeah.

B

I mean thanks for the praise. You know I'm actually been pretty proud of the contributing documentation.

A

This is yeah. This is quite thorough, I would say as well so like, for example, if I'm coming here for the first time to commit or to contribute I'd be like. I know exactly what is expected of me or what I should do. um Not only does it make it easier for your project, and you know the maintainers to actually understand what's happening, what people are doing as someone who is coming for the first time, I know exactly what to do.

A

I don't have to be like go back and have a look at what other people have done. I don't have to like think about things too much and it's much. It's really easy to learn. um I think is like really key here, um but yeah. So you've done some really cool documentation here. What other tips would you have for um people who are maintaining projects apart from.

B

I guess yeah, I guess the biggest thing I can give I can give is to just you know. Every now and again, you need to stop what you're doing go out and try and come back in being like. I know nothing about this thing. How would I get started and sort of think to yourself like what have I missed in what I do every day about? You know what should be in the documentation and actually the best time to do.

B

That is when you get someone new come in to be a maintainer, because a lot of the time they'll you know, especially up until we got donated to the cncf contour- was very much sponsored by vmware, and so you know we sometimes would have new people come on from vmware, and that was the time when we could be like hey check out all the documentation.

B

If you you know, if there's anything, we've missed tell us and now's the time to fix it because you're a new person who is very strongly invested in being able to contribute here. Can you please tell us all the bits that we missed and that's one of the ways that we've got this good is that by taking the time when people start to actually.

A

B

People to to help you know to get the help.

A

Yeah, definitely, I think it's really good. So if we have a look at um you know something we've been talking a lot about um I'd, get up with something being started for money is good, first issues.

A

um So would you like to talk us through some of the good first issues for you and maybe show us some examples.

B

Yeah, well, we have a. We have a good first issue labels. So if you uh head to the issues and go to the labels and uh we've got a few there yep, um so importantly, you know one of the one of the things I thought was uh neat is that um we open, we pinned an issue a while ago. That's uh how do you use contour.

A

Oh yeah, that's cool is that, uh oh here we go up the top.

B

A

Right there sweet, oh! So what is this one for you.

B

A

You ideas on how they use contour.

B

Yeah yeah, so so we can come and con contact people. If we, if we're doing something that affects someone who uses contour in a specific way, then we've got a github idea of someone who we can be like you know, hey, you know, hey man like you're, a person yo. How did you are you still using it this way?

B

If we're going to change this, can you check it out for me, like you know, if I'm going to make a change to this, how would you feel about it that we can mention people on issues and stuff like that and have you know and have people who are concerned about a particular feature, give us feedback on how we build that.

A

This would be really good as a discussion thread.

B

Okay noted well.

A

I mean you might not have it set up for your project, but if you would like to start using discussions, let us know- and we can sort something out there. um But you have you heard about github discussions. Yeah.

B

um I I have seen I've seen them on a couple of projects. Yeah.

A

Yeah, so what you can do as well, one of the coolest things we set up for them is: you can convert an issue to a discussion. So when you can start use discussions, you can say: oh, this would be great as a discussion. Let's click convert um and the coolest thing about discussions over issues is um especially for things like this, where it's not really like a bug fix or something specific. um You can have all the nested replies um which makes stuff like this can be a license. That'd be cool all right.

B

So we'll go back to.

A

um Yeah, so let us know if you want to get on that.

B

I think it's issue singular.

A

Good first issue doesn't want to come up: let's go the old-fashioned way of labeling it like this filter by labels. There we go.

A

Sometimes it's easy to do that. Yeah wow. We got lots of them.

B

A

Of good first yeah.

B

Yeah yeah totally um yeah. We also use the hell wanted one for sometimes things are hell pondered, but not good, first issue, because you know that's when that's when it's like hey. We know this is important. It kind of requires someone to have a little bit of familiarity with the project before you might try and do it, but at the same time maybe we might not be able to. Maybe the call maintainers might not be able to get to it for a while.

B

So that's what health wanted us for, um so we've got a whole bunch of documentation um things in here. To be honest, that's probably the best place. If you really want to sort of get started, you know, that's the best place to get started usually on any project is find some documentation bugs and fix them, um because, if nothing else that will get you that will get your sort of pr loop sorted out. um Obviously we are a kubernetes controller and uh it's the same flow that in the kubernetes could you x.

B

People recommend is that you know if you want to get started with kubernetes. One of the best things to do is to go find the document the documentation.

A

B

Find a bug and fix that fix the documentation button.

A

And you've also got yours tagged by documentation as well. I can see that which is kind of easy but say again, I'm here nude I'll go! Oh okay! Well! These are good first issues. So for um lots of people, the concept of good first issues is, and I'm sure, you'll always see the same ways. It's a good place if you're a first time contributor, correct.

B

A

As a good first issue, a good place to start for a project um yeah and you've done even one step further by like tagging them for specific um areas. If I'm not quite sure where to start, I can go yeah, I've got I've, got some skills and documentation. I know how to use certificates. So let's have a look at this.

B

A

um We can go here and then go oh sweet, so you need some help here.

B

Yes, exactly and so.

A

This is a good example.

B

Where we've got um you know, we've got currently a document that tells you how you can use uh the project ser manager um to generate certificates for your installs, um for your services um that that currently uses uh a dummy ingress object to to kick off the fl. The manager flow. What this, what this issue is saying is hey. They have their own object, type that you can create.

B

That will also kick off the flow, and it means that you're not creating dummy objects for no reason you you're actually creating the object you're supposed to create, and so um that's what then, when steve looked at you that's what he was saying, and so you know you can see here sort of said: hey. We should do that and then, if you scroll down a little bit one of my jobs as tech leaders to come in and be like, hey, you know, I.

A

Agree, this current situation isn't great and you wrote that before covered.

B

Yeah exactly one of the key one of the key things that I found. uh The key skills for being a tech lead is uh understatement.

A

B

Yeah, so um you know, and to so what I wanted to do say with that coin is to give people what I try and do with these good first issues is to make sure there's a bit of background in them. So people understand why why it is an issue what we've done about it in the past and why you want to do something why you want to do something about it.

A

And then, if so,.

B

Like a kind of a checklist for things that you should look at um so that so that you're not just sort of being like it's not like a one line, please do this and then you've got to come to slack or something like that and find out from us what you need to do. In my mind, a good first issue issue should have enough information in there that you should be able to work on it without needing to come to us for any extra information. Yep.

A

So when you open up your good first issues or your good issues, you're good amazing issues um so steve is he part of his ea.

B

A

So is he a maintainer of the project as well with you.

B

He is yes, yep.

A

Awesome so he would open this and then you would come in. I can see that basically the same date, so you would come in and write your little piece. Yeah um then steve would write back.

B

So we've sort of backwards and forwarded a bit here, um so this was when dave was still working with us. You know.

A

So we've all sort of talked.

B

A little bit yeah, we definitely need to do something like this and so on and so forth. We agreed yeah. This is actually what we need to do got closed by a mistake. um You know the usual sort of issue flow and then at some point you know um at some point, we've added the good first issue label which we're like yes,.

A

Yep cool, and so I was kind of sitting there waiting for a would-be contributor to come along and contribute to it.

B

Exactly yeah yeah, so that's why we live in that yeah.

A

B

So there's um there's a bunch of there are some code uh related issues as well. um Yeah, most of them tend to be ones where it's a very small code patch that would need to be submitted, but at the same time it's like not.

B

You know it's actually one of those ones where it's a small code patch the feature the functionality is not critical enough, that we absolutely need to get it in right away, so we're actually specifically leaving that there, so that someone who wants to do some coding but doesn't know the project very well, has something to come in and do yeah.

A

um You know a great example that if you actually.

B

Head to the pull requests, there is a pull request for enabling strict yammer parsing in the config file. Oh.

A

B

Parsian yeah, that's it see this was. This is a. There is.

A

B

Yep there is a uh yep. There is a. There is an issue there, two six, two three um you know, and that was like you know where we discussed. um You can see that if you click into two six, two three, it's a good first issue as well.

A

um I like this flow yeah, it's.

B

A

Yep: okay, they're very good issue deployment, powerpoint.

B

Yes, exactly yeah um and so yeah. This was one where you know. James peach is also one of the maintainers and he sort of said hey.

B

When I was, I was doing something with adding a new feature and I found that you know the conflict didn't work and I couldn't figure out why, and so, if we added in strict yammer parsing, then if we could add in a thing that would make it more clear as to why this particular value didn't work, because which is because the animal didn't pass, yeah yeah, so tim has come in and said hey. Can I pick this up?

B

So no problem he's generated a pr, um and I think we've had a round of review already um on the pr linked.

A

Initially, three days ago, yeah.

B

Yep and again, this is where.

A

This is where the.

B

Commit uh the commit template comes in because because we strongly recommend to people that um well, actually one of the things that's part of our sort of project philosophy is that we talk first and then code. So.

A

We I like math, I like that.

B

Yeah we don't like to have it. We don't like to have a pr without an issue yeah, so so that we've agreed that what we're doing in the pr is actually what we want to do. Sometimes it's easy. When you look at a project you're like I need to solve just my problem.

A

B

Easy to make a pr that solves your problem, but as a maintainer. Sometimes. What I find is that you that may actually create problems for other people, because because you as the person who's fixing your problem, which is awesome, don't have the context around how to fix it.

A

I think it's like the trading equivalent of uh measure twice cut once exactly.

B

Yeah yeah talk first thing code is exactly that.

A

B

A

Yeah, that is great yeah, so speaking of like, um obviously, if you want to come to a project, you want to contribute for the first time. um One of the things you probably really want to know is um what languages do you code in? Yes,.

B

A

um Contour written in.

B

um It's mostly go yeah mostly garland mean. If look at the that nifty thing you've got where it tells you the percentage of things there. I think it's, I think it's uh pretty much, almost all go with a little bit of makefile and there.

A

B

Down the side and and yeah because we store the source of the site in there.

A

Yeah, so 67.8 is written in go so if you're a go programmer, it's a good place.

B

To start it is totally yeah yeah, so I mean basically the entire thing is written in go. We also have the websites stored in the same repo. So that's why we've also got the the front end stuff, yeah there uh yeah and then.

A

B

A sprinkling of makefile and shell scripts and stuff to actually do the building.

A

Nice, this is another good spot for um contributors to look at as well and to go like, for example, if you're a ruby programmer, it's not going to be useful yeah, but if you're obviously go you can say, I am nearly like this whole thing's pretty much written and go. This is a really good place to start so absolutely yeah awesome. um Do you have more questions um from the chat? um Oh we've got one from pinkham who's. I know he's just started learning a bunch of coding as well on the one.

A

From from my chat, um I say what is what is the go language you'd like to tell us a little bit more about the go language.

B

um So go is a compiled language as opposed to python or something like that, which is a interpreted language. What that means is that, in order to run a go program, you compile the program into a winery that you then run, whereas with python you will take your code and run it directly by the interpreter.

B

The advantage of a compiled language that is good in some situations is that you can take that binary, especially in ghost case it's a statically linked binary generally, which means that you can pick up that binary and copy it anywhere and that buyer will work no without any extra libraries or installs. So, if you're used to python, I did a lot of programming python beforehand, and I know I used to spend a lot of time thrashing around with virtual limbs and stuff to make sure I had all the right requirements.

B

The good thing about go is that once you compile the thing and built it, you run that go binary anywhere and it doesn't matter. You don't need all the build tools on there to be able to run, um but the the advantages of the language are. It's uh um it's a built.

B

It's a google, it's a language from google, but it's built for um to be a sort of c like syntax, so you've got a lot of control over pointers and stuff, like that, you don't in more interpreted languages, uh but you've also got um it's got type safety and it's got a lot of support for concurrency. So it's kind of the de facto as much as I might get the flag for saying this. It's kind of the de facto uh cloud native language.

B

So, if you're doing anything kubernetes or you know cloud native most of the tools that are cloud native at the moment and a part of cncf are written in, go yeah. Kubernetes is all written and go so if you're doing anything cube related, probably you you should be learning some go at least even if you're not going to write in it primarily knowing a bit about it, will help you understand. What's going on.

A

Well, I was gonna, be my next question, so speaking of learning, if people want to learn, go or to brush up on their growth skills, where would you recommend they go to.

B

um So there's a couple: the the basic there's, a couple of great online: go tutorials and there's. Basically, a whole book of learning go online. That's available for free online. um That is I'm absolutely amazing. um Go also has the go playground, which is like a website where you can enter go code and run it in your browser, um and it is yeah. Yes, yeah, it's really great, um so you can just hit run on that and that will run that will run that code for you and you'll get the result.

B

Kind of bottom right, hello,.

A

Playground, it's behind me for anyone who can't say that it says hello programmed programmer.

B

Exactly and so so you can do anything that you can do in a normal go programming program.

B

You can do there it's off, it's actually really useful a lot of the time for if you need to talk to someone about a code sample, you can put it in the playground and then people can edit it as they wish and change it around and stuff, like that, also a lot of go tutorials will use the playground um but yeah, and uh then I mean for me for me one of the advantages of coming to work on contour when I first started was that uh you know dave cheney is one of the big proponents of going he's.

B

One of those people who's written a lot of tutorials.

A

B

Instead of there's quite a few times when I'd be like hey dave, how should I do this and he'd be like you should do this? I'm like didn't you write a blog post? Where you told me, I should do something else and you'd be like damn.

A

Yeah, I think I mean people kind of miss that point when they're looking at um open source and that's that, like when you're contributing open source, you get to learn from all these other amazing developers around you. So um if you've just started, go like going to a place like project contour, obviously there's go developers there because all written on go so it's such a great way to learn from those around you um like I'm.

B

A

Your skills and go a lot better from.

B

100 100 yeah yeah totally um yeah, I mean I would have said before I started on project control. I was go literate but not fluent, and now I'm I I would feel I'm much closer to floor. I can have arguments with people about the right, the right ways to do that. Arguments.

A

Is that the standard isn't that the bar? So if I could.

B

Have an argument.

A

With someone about this, then.

B

If you can have, if you can have a strong uh opinionated discussion with somebody about some tiny little feature of the language and the best way to use it, then that says to me that you're really familiar with the language. Oh.

A

My gosh, I wonder if anyone.

B

In the chat has had any.

A

Experience like that, if you have let us know, I would like to share it. You know it's hilarious when you get to that stage, um I know um they say similar if you start dreaming in the language that you're learning so whether it's a spoken language or a programming written like once, you start dreaming about it. Then you know you're going nuts or that you're really fluent in it.

B

Totally eternally yeah yeah yeah.

A

B

I was going to say yeah, it's like when I was writing a lot of python. Like you know, you'd have I'd, have a lot of uh vigorous discussions with people about the you know the right time and place to use various types of comprehension, whether that be list comprehension or dictionary comprehensions or whatever um yeah. That's when you know you're, you know you're doing the you're doing the language for reals when you start having you know, but we really should do this because it's the better way to do it.

A

Yeah, I think it's like that's one thing I like about programming, though, is that there's multiple ways of doing one thing: yeah.

B

A

You need to choose the thing that works best for your scenario. I think.

B

That's what I.

A

Really like about like, if you give um you know, 10 developers, the same problem uh or the same like you know, build this function that does this this. This, like some of them, will be similar, but some people use, like you, know, a loop and other people use like you know, other things and like I'm just like I just started doing some more programming again, um I do it often live and some people are going now.

A

You should totally use like a switch here instead of an if statement and I'm just like, and then people start arguing in my chat and I'm just like. I.

B

Just gotta sit.

A

There, god this is cool, I'm just gonna. Let you all argue I just like yeah we'll just see what happens.

B

Yeah totally, this is, as I said, vigorous discussion. Oh.

A

Yeah yeah, you should see what happens when there's you know a screen in front of people or just like throwing all things in um but yeah. The next thing I wanted to talk a little bit about is um more about like what you end up doing on github and other projects that you might contribute to so other other projects. Apart from contour that you um you might like, drop in on contribute to or.

B

Maybe even some that.

A

Are dependent, um I have interdependencies on project contour.

B

um So well, most of contour is kind of pretty high up the stack. So most of we depend on things more than people depend on us at the moment. But you know we depend on kubernetes and we depend on.

B

We use prometheus metrics, so we depend on the prometheus libraries um and also we use envoy, um and so all three of those things are open source in our github. uh So I mean obviously kubernetes is like you know: people talk about the 800 pound. Gorillas kubernetes is like an army of 800 pound in terms of the amount of code and the sheer volume of people working.

B

So it's probably if you've never done open source contribution. Before you I mean, although there's a whole group dedicated to making your life easier as a new contributor, but even so it can be very intimidating.

B

um You know, because there's a lot of people and a lot of people have been doing it for a long time and there's a lot of stuff going on, um but yeah, um and so one of the things that kubernetes does about that is kubernetes breaks down the project into special interest groups or seats, and so I'm involved in a couple of sigs and a working group. um So I'm involved in the seek network.

B

Some project called the service apis, which is um it's actually an alpha of what we do in contour and the ingress ingress is how you get traffic into a kubernetes cluster. The service apis is a is an attempt to build a new version of that that that takes a lot of what you know. People like arsenal contour have learned by trying to build things that do that and build like a new version.

B

So that's a pretty ongoing project. There's a lot of big. uh You know: big companies really backing it, which is really cool. You know: go google red hat um vmware, which is where I work. um You know a bunch of other companies are like really very heavily invested in there. So it's really interesting one to watch yeah um yeah in terms of and then in terms of small stuff. um You know, I guess I've sort of tried it. I've helped on a bunch of other stuff.

B

um I contributed a little tiny bit to etd and a couple of other things which are also ones that uh kubernetes use. um I'll, be honest, though most of my most of my contributions have been for work rather than for fun.

A

Nothing wrong with that.

B

I was going to ask.

A

About that like because you know, project contour obviously relies on some of these other big projects. Do you ever encourage, um like your contributors to say, oh, like hey, we actually depend on this product. If there's ever anything, you want to do, go and contribute to make sure it's I mean. Obviously, kubernetes is not going anywhere anytime soon, um but do you ever do that.

B

Yeah absolutely like I'll a lot of the time. We'll say: hey. Is this better for us to build, or is it better for some for us to, you know, go and build it in the upstream.

A

In the upstream project, instead yeah.

B

A

How do you decide.

B

Kind that a case it's kind of a case-by-case thing, um so we're actually working on at the moment. um The envoy project have a go control plane because envoy itself is written in c plus, plus rather than go, uh and so interacting with envoy users. um They have their own set of apis and they have a special. um They have a control, plane. Library called go control plane that lets you write, go programs that interact with their apis in a more easy way.

B

We contour actually predates that, so we've got our own code. That does the same thing, and so we've been sort of looking at trying to move our code to use the control plane and some of the stuff that we do is a little bit different to the way that the go control plane. Does it some of the stuff they do has been different to us, and so we've been sort of talking about which bits we would build ourselves.

B

And if we move to it like what functionality we can add back to the control plane so that everyone gets it.

A

B

Because you know a lot of the time, it's and there's there's a there's, a there's two reasons there. One is being a good citizen right, like contributing upstream when you take stuff from everybody else, is just being nice, but but also there's actually a selfish motive as well, which is that when you contribute upstream, that means that other people are going to take their code and they can fix it for you. If.

A

It doesn't do what they want as well. Yeah.

B

So it's not just you working on it, then it's everybody working on it.

A

Yeah exactly and that's one of the biggest like you know, reasons for open source. I was really interested. Actually I was. um I was working on blender the other day, so I was doing some stuff in blender on my own twitch channel and someone came like oh blender's, so good, I'm like yeah, I know, blender's open source is what I love about. So much they're like I hate open source and I was like what do you mean you hate open source because I don't like they found out. They.

B

A

Github and they didn't, they didn't hate github. I didn't hate blender, they hated the concept of open source and I was like: why do you hate the concept of open source like oh, they just felt like it was companies being lazy and therefore open sourcing their stuff, so other people can fix it. I was like oh my gosh, that's so completely the opposite of what open source is. You know it's all the things that you're talking about right, which is you know, people working on projects together, building stuff.

A

That is, you know better for other people. You know making this um available, because if you build something upstream, not only can, as you mentioned, can they fix it, but it means that they can change it and modify it for their needs as well. So more people get to use it for more cool stuff. Oh there's something you.

B

A

In the chat's doing the whole facebook, it's just like.

B

I know right like.

A

B

Yeah yeah, that sounds very weird, like.

A

It was really weird I'm like they must have had some bad experience with open source or just had a very misunderstanding of what it actually is um yeah. It was very weird.

B

Absolutely yeah yeah, I mean I think there are absolutely times when people companies do do that, though they'll be like hey. This thing is open source, but by the way you you, we won't accept your pr's. Even if you raise them- or you know something like that, like that.

A

B

It does happen, you know, but the thing about open source is that people learn that pretty quickly and you know- and everyone will hear about the the project. That's doing that.

A

Yeah, exactly I mean we've got like what over 50 million developers on the platform over 100 and something million projects. You know not every single one of them is going to have be amazing. Right like again, it's just projects are run by people and people sometimes have different ideas, so they must just have had someone with a you know. An interesting idea that came in was just like yeah. Well, we're just gonna resolve, so everyone can fix it and yeah, no one actually from the company. Anyone maintains it.

A

That's why I think um you know projects like yours or blender, or any of those kind of ones that have got like people dedicated to the project, as well as other people. Contributing just ensures that they're sustainable.

B

um Absolutely yeah, I mean, I think, and I think the rise of the foundations like the cncf and something really helpful.

A

B

Because when, as a if you're a company, that's using the open source, it gives you that much more confidence that it's it's not just some other company that is making an open source out of the goodness of their heart, like it's actually been donated out to a foundation, that's job. It is to make sure that the thing is open source and is done in the right way. Yeah.

A

Exactly so speaking of that, what what are your thoughts around um github sponsors.

B

uh By which you mean you.

A

Can have sponsors where um people can basically donate money to projects.

B

That's a hundred, that's a great idea, yeah! It's.

A

An amazing idea, yeah.

B

A

No, that's fine yeah and I think one of my favorite things about it is like you know, we talk about this, a lot right, the ethics of open source and what obviously, what ethical things about open sources. You know, if you use a project, you know, try and contribute back to it, um but, as you know not everyone can either they might not have the skills to do it all the time I have the time either. So I think opening up to um for money as well is such a great way to be.

A

Like oh, look, you don't have time or skills. You can just give us money instead,.

B

I mean money can be changed into time, more skills reasonably.

A

In a reasonably straightforward fashion,.

B

So yeah yeah have.

A

You considered um if project contour will be on the github sponsors list or so yeah.

B

Maybe maybe maybe, but I mean, I think, the fact that we're kind of heavily sponsored by a biob company is vmware.

A

Yeah, I keep forgetting that you're like backed by a bigger.

B

A

As well, um which again is another great way to do open source- and I love the fact that big companies do that um now if we look at, for example, microsoft biggest contributor open source in the world, um you know all of their stuff facebook, google- I just think it's great that these you know companies can do that.

B

Yeah, yes, I mean we've actually only recently been donated to this ncf. uh That was only in sort of the last month or so that actually all finally went through and we got officially donated. So oh.

A

B

A

Why I missed it because it's only been a couple months, so yeah.

B

Yeah yeah, so it's really exciting, because yeah now that now that means that you know I mean, although I work for vmware like the project that I work on like you know, it means that all of the ip and all of the official stuff has been handed over to the cncf and and now, even if the worst should happen, which it never will as far as I'm concerned but like if vmware should change their mind and say and pull me off the project, then the project, the source code stays.

A

With them exactly.

B

A

Yeah exactly, but you know it's always good to have that. You know the ducks in a row just in case yeah.

B

A

As I was saying a couple people I do a lot of startup mentoring as well um having those types of things in place doesn't necessarily mean like hey. This is here in case the thing goes wrong, which it hopefully never will. It just shows that people actually have more trust. um It's a it's a very weird double-edged sword. By having those things in place, it shows more trust, but also it shows that um everyone knows what you're doing. um There's super transparent and nothing can go wrong.

A

um Even if you know the very, very tiny miniscule chance that it could it just. I just feel like it just shows up. You know that high level of trust and knowledge.

B

It shows that you thought about the fact that things could go wrong. Yeah.

A

Exactly and they value that more.

B

Yeah, it's the open source version of buying insurance right, like yeah.

A

Exactly I, like I'm gonna use that one uh doing this is the open source version of buying insurance. I've picked up a few good quotes in our open source fridays. Every time someone says cool, I'm like cool someone clip it. That's that's nick's quote for the you know um yeah. So um as well as a couple more things before, we've got about 10 minutes left. So if anyone has more questions, please put them in the chat. I know it's a little bit lighter on today, um not being on the american time zone.

A

We often have a little less, but um thank you everyone for being here so far, um but one thing I did want to chat about is um well github profile. I know she haven't done yours up yet.

B

Are you considering, I 100 will do the github profile? Yes, I'm looking forward to writing my readme yeah. Oh.

A

Awesome, that's cool um the other one I want to ask you about. Is we often ask people um what are the latest, the top all the top they're, not the top three, but the last three projects you starred um on github.

B

That's a good question.

A

You can actually go and check if you need to.

B

Probably it's been a little while.

B

A

B

A

Yeah check I'm young, I'm a young nick on github and I'm young I was like. Can I check your stars.

B

A

We go, there's your stars, so fedora.

B

Yeah yeah, so that was uh yeah, so fedora fedora, mate, uh red hat. We make linux they're, making flavor of linux and then um yeah. They um they are building, uh they bought coreos a while ago, and so this is their tracker for that yeah.

A

B

Yeah, you can see that the second one is, I actually use uh home assistant, which is a open source home automation tool. Oh.

A

B

Yeah yeah and uh yeah, so that was there's a conflict library where people can pay our confidence.

A

Nice, this is what we do. We check like what your last styles were and why so, obviously yeah the vmware one that kind of makes sense, movie store guy. What's this one war games.

B

Oh, I don't even I just don't even know why.

A

I was like, are you a gamer.

B

Yes, I am a gamer, oh.

A

You are oh, okay. What what do you play.

B

uh So uh destiny 2 is my poison um yeah.

A

B

But uh yeah I I play a lot of things but yeah destiny. 2 is the one that sucks up most of my time.

A

Because I've got a young family.

B

I uh there's only so much that's uh the gaming time I get just kids.

A

How old are they now.

B

Yeah yeah so they're, eight and five. I actually did.

A

B

I actually did spend a little time the other day. um They were telling me what to do when I was playing uh ghost of sushima.

A

Oh, they were telling you yeah.

B

They were like, oh dad, go over there check that out. Oh okay, man.

A

Yeah, I have not.

B

A

Ghost of yeah it's um it's almost it's on my to playlist. It.

B

Is a gorgeous game yeah.

A

B

Gorgeous, like there's been quite a few times where I saw it, you know I, you know I've been playing games for a long time and uh yeah, but it's one of the few games where I sort of stop and be like.

A

B

I think that's the thing like I want to get it for the.

A

Graphics, like it looks beautiful and I think it was the top the fastest selling, like non-big studio game for like or independent game in like ages. I guess I sold some ridiculous number of copies in the first light week or so I'm just reading um pw's comment says he always um pronounces court os like oreos.

A

Fun fact oreo is actually vegan for anyone who um didn't know the oreos weren't vegan, so.

B

I did not know that that is very interesting. They.

A

Use um coconut oil instead of like milk powder or milk, and so I'm also gluten free. So I can't even have them because they're still vegan but they're filled with gluten.

B

A

Yeah, so yeah pink hammer hasn't got um ghosts of sashimi yet, but I'm probably on his playlist too, but um any other games on your on your list. Anything else you've been doing.

B

I've been I've been working my way through um assassin's creed, odyssey, um that was a fun game. Yeah yeah I uh I have been very much enjoying playing as um alexandra, and uh you know having this badass lady, like punch your way through hundreds of dudes.

A

I, like it yeah, I did um I've done nearly all the assassin's creeds um yeah and I the last it was um odyssey. The egyptian one was the last one. I did.

B

That was origins, yeah, origins, sorry, yeah, sorry, obviously, obviously it's the ancient greek that's right. I.

A

Just use the ancient greek one, which I did that as well, um have I played um black flag and have you played black.

B

Oh black flag, that was, that is a great game. I learned so many pirate shinies from playing that game.

A

All these dudes, you gotta, collect all the shadies. I played black flag as well. It was really interesting. I played it with a friend and I just did not like the um the like the ship stuff.

B

A

Didn't like sailing around, I mean I like the sailing right, the whole ship battles, and things is in like I like that, like the ground combat- um and it was really interesting because my mate, who I was playing with he liked the opposite. He liked the ship stuff, not the ground, so we were just.

B

A

It's your turn just keyboard and mouse over there and you go. Do the ship, then oh, it's back to lan all right. Your turn, bish! That's great yeah, the shanties they're great. It.

B

Is it is, I agree with picking that it is an excellent pirate game? You know really really fun. Buyer game well,.

A

Have you played sea of thieves, then.

B

I I played a little bit when it first came out, but um yeah I've only got room for one sort of grinding online service game and that was destiny, so see if they've lost out to destiny. For me,.

A

Although it's a great game, it is a great game.

B

Absolutely but uh yeah it just uh yeah, like I said, there's only, there was only room for one yeah.

A

Yeah, I know that's the problem like um I've seen that meme somewhere, like floating around like when you buy a new game, but then, like you, turn around there's like a pile of games that you still haven't played like yeah. That's totally like someone asked me how um final fantasy vii the remake was going. I was like it's still in the packaging.

B

I I literally I haven't. I didn't, have a ps4 until like last week where a friend of mine has gone away on a like cool trip around australia, where they're living in the caribbean for like six months, so he was like hey. You want to have my ps4 and I was like ah yes, and so you brought it over and plugged it in, and I'm like. Okay, just give me a minute, I'm like sign in to the playstation store.

B

I did have a playstation capture when I had a ps3 signing in the play store, so I'm like I'm gonna, buy that game and that.

B

I've had this ps4 for like nine months and I've bought one game. He bought the uncharted uh triple remake.

A

Which was a good choice.

B

uh And uh yeah and he's like you've spent you've bought more games in like 10 minutes than I have in the entire time. I've had this thing.

A

Well, um final: fantasy vii has a bunch of free stuff um at the moment. If you want to go grab.

B

A

Free stuff, um yeah and there's, I think, that's like our ps4 sale as well at the moment so.

B

I do very much want to play the final 57 remake. Yes, I played finals.

A

It's on sale, it's like 50 bucks or something.

B

I play final fantasy 7, the original one back.

A

B

I did yes, I played it three times all the way through uh emerald and ruby weapon all three times like 150 hours, each time, um yeah.

A

Yeah you should it's the most beautiful, looking game, different type of graphic and style, to go to shima, but yeah beautiful. You should totally play it.

B

A

There's a bunch of free, like items and stuff on sale as well should definitely go down um so almost the time. What, if you're about five minutes? What are you selling your last words of wisdom for um people wanting to either get into open source or people wanting to either I've got people asking? How do I start an open source project or just top tips and maintainers as well.

B

um So I mean yeah so in terms of starting the best thing to do, for starting an open source project is just to start it. um You can sit around thinking about how you'd like to do it all day. Just start, it probably should repo like it doesn't matter. If it's not perfect, you know, let's be real like until you get like more than 10 users like you're, like you know, your project will vanish into github until.

A

B

A

You have that into.

B

A

Black hole that is github.

B

Yes, absolutely yeah and then yeah until you until you actually establish a critical mass of people using your project, you can do whatever you like really like. You know, and um I guess in terms of starting to contribute to something the best way to start something is do the stuff we talked about today. Contributing guide. Look at the good first issues find something you actually want to fix, fix it up, like speaking as a maintainer. Nothing makes me more happy that when someone shows up and says please could I fix this issue.

B

You will never hear me.

A

Oh my gosh, yes,.

B

If you're gonna say no say.

A

No, don't touch that say well. Why would you publish the thing anyway.

B

Exactly exactly yeah like as a maintainer, there's, nothing that makes you happier even if you know I mean practically a lot of those good first issues, any one of us maintainers could do them in like half an hour an hour right like the reason we leave them. There is because we want people to come and do those things and learn how to do things so eventually, maybe someone might want to climb the ladder and become a regular contributor, and then you know like contour is looking for maintainers, like all of our maintenance, currently works vmware.

B

We won't make it so that we don't have ones or not. So we have. We have a contribution ladder published like you know, absolutely for any open source project. I guarantee you if you show up and you do some work and then you come back and you show up again and you do more work.

B

You will end up being one day if you keep doing that, you will end up as a maintainer of that open source project. Almost sir, if you just keep showing up and doing the work you will, you will be an important part of that community, because that is the number one criteria of being part of the community is showing up.

A

I think so I think um you know pink ham put in the chapter like it sounds. Like I mean it's the same, you do anything or people say well. How do I start a company? How do I start streaming? How do I start? You know learning your code, it's like just start, yeah.

B

Explain it and do it just do it? If you can't change your mind later, it doesn't matter like yeah.

A

B

You having started something once makes it easier to start the nesting yeah.

A

B

That yeah, like yeah, if you're gonna, if you want to do content creation, you want to be a youtuber. The only way to do that is to make videos like put them on youtube, like yeah sure they'll, probably be crap to start with everyone. Does that like yeah, you know like, but then one day, you'll find the thing that makes you an interesting voice and people.

A

Yeah or people go, I can't start whether it's coding or um content creation um people. I can't stop because I'm not good enough and I'm like whether you are coding or you know, starting as you know, streaming or videos or whatever. If you wait till you're good enough, people are going to be like this guy looks really good.

A

Why hasn't he got his giant audience um I'm going to leave, because I just think they just assume that you have been around for ages and you just don't have any followers, because your your stuff looks so polished, whereas if you come into the start, people grow with you, they learn with you. They feel like they're part of a community with you, uh whether you're doing content creation like streaming, whether you're being a developer. People are there to help you learn and grow.

A

um So again, if you come in and say I'm a newbie um to go, can you help me? People are gonna, be really happy to help you, because if you come in as like a I'm, I know everything about go. I spent five years letting go just so I could contribute to this project. People are gonna, be like okay, sure.

B

A

B

A

You might probably you're not gonna, be in the frame of mind of wanting to learn and wanting.

B

A

Get involved in the community so, as bdoggy said this, the answer you've given nick is just so inspiring and a lot of people are just getting there going. Yes yeah. All you do is hit that go button.

B

Yeah, that's that's. I mean that's the key.

B

That's the key to doing anything is to you know, is to actually start like it's easy to dream about doing things, but, like top tip number one for actually doing things, is that just do them like yeah and accept that to start with yeah your stuff might not be, might not be as good as the people who you admire.

B

That's fine, like people who you were admire were beginners one day too, like yeah and and if you make something like and you you show it to the people of mine and be like hey, I really admire you and you inspired me to do this. I guarantee that you will make their day. Oh.

A

Totally, I think two.

B

Doesn't guarantee it.

A

Yeah, definitely, I think too, if you come in as a newbie people, give you a lot more leeway in terms of like messing up um and again like the person who spends five years, letting go to come in you're, not gonna. Give him any leeway like you should know this stuff bro.

A

You said you've been coding for like five years, just to learn this, whereas if you're like yoni, it's like, oh hey, you know, try and give this a go or do this and get a bit more hand holding again whether it's programming or whether it's content creation, whether it's you know the maintainers or contributors that you're working with or whether it's an audience that you're trying to talk to people, give you a lot more leeway when you're.

B

A

So yeah, so I think yeah definitely like you said, just get in there and stop it's okay.

B

And I mean, as I think I said to you earlier when we were when we were getting ready, though you know, I mean uh wheaton's rule always applies right, like you know, I mean, and what other people called in the past.

B

The golden rule, like you, know, treat the people who you respect the way that you would want to be treated when you're and you were respected right, like you, know, hey if you're new, and you want to show someone something cool that you think you built like, go to them and take it to them and be like hey check out this cool thing. If they don't respond, they're, probably just busy it's not that they hate you right, yeah.

A

B

Yeah, I think you know, like you just remember, that the other person on the other side is like you and is a person and look after them as much as you would want them to look after you.

A

And I think people forget that at the moment like in today's day and age like they forget that, on the other end, the thing or the person they're trying to get into is just a person. They have.

B

A

They have feelings and emotions and they get excited about stuff, and you know things like that, so you know just thinking about like, on the other end of that that idol or someone you're trying to get in touch with they're a person doing you can connect on a personal level. um So I think that's really important. I love that idea of.

A

Like you know, if somebody inspired you like send a message or say like hey, you are the one that got me into this or you inspired me to learn, go or you inspired me to contribute to this project like yeah. It totally makes people's day.

B

Yeah I mean, but I'd say the coral area to that. That goes with. The second thing that I said is the thing that I always try to do when I do that sort of stuff, and I still do it right, yeah yeah, like I said my name, may be young, but I'm not, um but that doesn't mean that you know like I. I often will I make a big effort actually to if someone inspires me to send them things saying hey thanks for that. That was really great.

B

I really it was really inspiring, but at the same time I don't expect you to reply. I just want you to read this sometime. I don't it doesn't matter to me.

A

B

A

Say that to someone is important, because it takes the pressure off them. That.

B

They have to read the thing and be like. Oh, what am I going to say to this person? What, if they get upset that I have problems.

A

Take the pressure off the person you.

B

A

Like yeah, don't need to respond to me. Just know that you inspired me and it's awesome. I love it. um You totally use that joke all the time. Don't you my name is young, but I am not.

B

A

Often, no, it's come up about three times now.

B

Yeah, it's fine.

A

All right: well, I think that is a perfect spot to end it with lots of inspiration for everyone. So, if anyone's thinking about learning programming, getting into content creation, um contributing to a project um just get in and go.

B

A

People think I don't want to contribute to the project, because what, if they don't like me, you got cool people like nick. You know that are there to help you and you know that are running these projects like again they're people, they're cool people like nick who plays assassin's creed and you know, watches or you know, has your kids playing. You know ghosts of toshiba with you, which is crazy but, um like you know, just really cool things like that.

A

So just know that, on the other end there is a person you can connect with them and yeah just start and go and inspire people. So again, thank you nick so much for being here today. I very much appreciate your time.

B

No worries, thank you.

A

Yeah, I know yeah. Thank you so much. It was great to hear about the project um what you're working on good first issues um so for all those other people who are here listening in um we'll have some we'll do a blog post on this as well. We'll have some more content tune in again same time. Next week, we'll have a new maintainer talking and also we have um the american time slot as well, for open source writer will be hosted by our famously amazing bee doggie yo who's, also in the chat.

A

So again, thanks nick for having us uh for being here with us and sharing your friday with us, and thank you to all the viewers being here.

B

Thanks everyone.

A

All right, thank you. Everyone bye.