►
From YouTube: Book Club - Better Work Together - Meeting #4
Description
Discussion issue: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/book-clubs/issues/7
A
B
C
C
C
E
Trouble
is
that
PDF
is
primarily
for
print
and
so
not
designed
for
you,
those
things,
and
so
the
way
previous
are
currently
put
together.
I
used
to
work
in
polishing,
so
a
lot
of
BBS
are
the
dog's
breakfast
when
it
comes
to
actually
doing
anything,
which
is
why,
when
you
search
uses
or
jumps
around
all
over
the
place,
but
definitely
I
will
pass
that
feedback
on.
There
are
other
better
formats,
but
none
of
them
are
as
popular
as
PDF,
because
P,
if
he's
King
at
the
moment
for
some
reason.
B
A
Likewise,
I'm
actually
putting
together
a
talk
for
a
couple
of
conference
circuit
this
year
around
the
use
of
storytelling
in
ritual
in
software
development,
which
is
challenging
because
there's
we
have
these
abstract
ideas
around
storytelling
and
ritual
and
those
things
we
react,
and
academic
and
high-level
we
tune
into
them
only
in
terms
of
religion
and
mythology.
But
how
do
those
manifest
in
our
day
to
day
process
and
the
this
gate?
A
D
F
I
guess
yeah
one.
One
part
that
resonated
with
me
during
this
section
is:
oh
I,
guess
that's
reverse.
So
what
are
the
Mount?
Okay?
Okay?
That
makes
sense?
Oh
man.
So
what
are
the
mountains?
We
can
only
climb
together
I've
when
I
was
thinking
about
that
I
was
thinking.
You
can
there's
a
number
of
different
contexts.
You
could
apply
that
to
so.
F
F
What
what
tasks
can
only
be
accomplished
through
collaboration
as
a
company
if
we
want
to
be
as
successful
as
possible
and
have
the
best
product
available?
What
in
what
areas?
What
collaboration,
either
between
individuals
or
between
teams,
be
a
necessity
to
have
that
best
case
scenario,
instead
of
just
a
nice
thing
to
have.
F
Guess
I
guess
one
area
this
would
become
relevant
is
scaling
if
we
need
to
make
sure
that
there's
not
duplication
of
effort
and
that
people
are
not
knowledge
silos.
So
sharing
information
and
collaboration
is
a
way
to
make
things
available
to
everybody.
Instead
of
just
having
specific
individuals,
I.
F
C
Yeah,
it's
interesting
because
I
think
part
of
the
challenge
of
scaling
large
software
company
is
is
actually
you
want
to
try
to
do
the
reverse
in
a
sense
like
you,
you
actually
don't
collaboration
as
can
be
very
expensive
right
and
so
from
an
engineering
perspective.
We
try
to
do
very
tight
encapsulation,
where
it's
like
you're
working
on
this
and
then
you
know
you
here's
the
contract,
but
you
don't
need
to
talk
to
the
other
developer.
C
You
know
whether
its
scalability
or
performance
or
data
loss,
and
these
really
nasty
kind
of
things
that
are
really
tricky
to
figure
out
and
normally
I
think
those
are
really
tricky
to
figure
out
because
they
cut
across
all
of
that
and
they
kind
of
pierce
that
that
that
veil
of
encapsulation,
where
you
know
we're
doing
one
thing,
but
it's
actually
a
bug
in
go
and
then
that's
a
bug
in
like
a
compiler
or
something.
And
so
the
collaboration
is
really
when
you're
trying
to
get
to
that
next
level
of
development.
A
I
was
thinking
about
how
I'm
the
successful
model
that
I've
seen
for
those
sorts
of
problems.
Spaces
are
really
around
organically
formed
groups
so,
rather
than
having
a
rigid
hierarchy
around
products
and
things
that
you
know
there's
last
forever,
like
I
think
my
team
has
probably
three
or
four
years
it's
a
bugs
and
issues
and
wish
list
from
users
that
we
could.
We
could
go
implement.
A
But
looking
at
those
cross-cutting
concerns
from
like
a
larger
prospective
in
trying
to
form
groups
and
within
the
organization
that
have
limited
lifespans
right
that
we're
going
to
tackle
this
sort
of
problem
or
address
in
a
larger
issue.
And
sometimes
we
end
up
having
dedicated
teams
for
those
like
you
like
a
platform
team
or
a
scaling
team
or
something
but
having
dedicated
project
teams
where
this
team
will
only
be
around
for
four
months.
A
B
A
F
In
the
way,
I
would
say:
I
I
like
to
use
issue
labels
for
for
one
thing,
like
using
issue
labels
and
searching
different
projects,
keeping
track
of
those
things
and
having
notifications
on
labels
that
that's
a
way
I
can
keep
track
of
things.
That
I
am
most
interested
in
or
most
relevant
to
me
and
support
with
relatively
little
impact
I.
Have
it
routed
to
a
separate
folder
in
Gmail.
E
A
major
difference
that
I've
noticed
in
that
respect
between
my
experiences
and
my
head
and
spiral,
or
in
my
experience
here,
they're
actually,
two
very
different
places
on
in
the
respect
that
Inspiron
was
very
democratic
and
get
love
is
not
an
get
love
the
it's.
E
But
what
it
leads
to
is
a
lot
of
noise,
but
I'll
also
repeated
things
and
people
giving
opinions
that
are
non
expert
when
there's
an
expert
in
the
room
and
I'm,
not
meaning
that
people
should
always
go
with
the
expert,
no
matter
what.
But
what
we
found
was
with
some
of
the
communities
that
I've
been
in,
that
we
often
out
vote
the
expert
opinion
and
what
ends
up
happening
is
is
is
the
worst
like.
E
We
get
a
bad
outcome
where
we
should
have
listened
to
the
expert
voice
in
the
room
and
that's
not
to
say
that
they
should
always
override
everyone
or
override
the
community,
but
I
found
alive
found
that
if
you
can
exercise
collaboration,
I
find
the
collaboration
here
works
pretty
well,
because
there's
analyst,
you
solicit
everyone's
opinion
and
then
one
person
owns
the
decision
and
I
find
that
actually
a
much
better
model
of
collaboration,
then
allowing
everyone
to
say
everything
and
then
allowing
everyone
to
vote
I
find
it
a
lot
more
efficient
on
everyone's
time
and
a
lot
more
I
guess
a
lot
more
targeted
in
the
result,
because
one
person
is
then
responsible
for
the
result
and
then
they
therefore
become
the
results
champion,
whereas
in
a
democratic
or
shared
collaboration
or
some
consensus
model
that
doesn't
tend
to
happen.
E
It's
like
okay,
we're
gonna,
do
this
thing
now
and
then
it
kind
of
floats
in
the
room
and
no
one's
going
to
take
it.
Maybe
one
person
might
volunteer,
but
it
if
someone
really
wants
to
do
it
and
they
will
do
it
and
having
that
directly
responsible,
individual
I
think
really
helps
turn
that
decision
into
action.
A
Movies
described
it
Matt
Travis
as
the
problem
that
when,
when
no
one
when
there's
no
no
one
can
say
no,
that
no
one
can
say
yes
to
an
idea,
there's
no
one
to
like,
actually
give
you
approval.
If
there's
no
one
to
give
you
disapproval,
and
so
you
have
to
you,
have
to
find
ways
to
create
that
ownership
like
direct
ownership
of
problem
spaces.
A
F
Of
you
have
me
thinking
about
like
open
source
and
how
open
source
projects
are
maintained.
I
think
open
source
projects
is
generally
a
variety
of
people
contributing
to
a
project
with
some
sort
of
shared
goal,
but
they
all
have
a
different
set
of
needs
and
with
pretty
much
every
successful,
open
source
project.
There's
a
limited
number
of
individuals
who
can
actually
merge
into
the
master
branch
of
that
project
that
would
be
distributed,
and
so
I
I
think
that
what
for
you're
both
proposing
it's?
C
A
It's
I
think
it's
similar
I've
experienced
as
a
few
times
on,
especially
here
here,
honest
long-running
issue
tickets.
Perhaps
where
someone's
come
in
and
said,
here's
this
bug
or
secure
agent
or
something
and
no
one
really
owns
it.
But
a
lot
of
us
have
opinions
or
input
or
advice
or
experience.
We
want
to
share-
and
we
kind
of
shared
that
and
we
kind
of
grind
on
different
engineering
solutions
and
then
you've
got
8090
comments
on
a
thread
and
like
what
what's
what's
the
solution
like
what's
the
actual
path
forward,
we
have
lots
of
ideas.
A
We
would
gather
lots
of
lots
of
input
and
it's
very
easy
in
that.
Those
discussion
notes
to
like
you
know,
propose
a
response
and
response
a
response
to
things
and
you
you
very
quickly
lose
the
threat
of
what
you're
trying
to
do
as
a
solution
or
way
forward,
and
so
you
have
to
have
a
disciplined
approach
to
to
having
somebody
who's
who's.
A
At
the
end,
the
day
their
name
is
attached
to
to
getting
the
thing
done
or
who
is
explicitly
in
the
world
moderator
to
say
you
know
to
bring
the
bring
the
conversation
back
to
those
basic
principles.
We
started
at
point-a.
We've
gone
down
all
these
paths
now
we're
at
point
B
and
we
point
B
is
the
modification
point
a
you
know
with
the
addition
of
the
most
salient
most
interested,
most
energizing.
B
A
C
I'd
say
it
lab:
if
we
didn't
have
the
idea
of
iteration,
you
could
end
up
in
these
long-running
things
exactly
like
you're
talking
about,
because
for
me
it
eration
is
like
okay.
You
know
what
there's
lots
of
ideas,
let's
just
start
at
one
of
them
and
let's,
let's
you
know,
code
code
to
a
screen
kind
of
thing
so
that
we're
not
just
going
on,
because
there's
certainly
issues
I've
seen
where
they
just
go
on
and
on
and
on,
and
then
the
solution
is
like
all
right.
A
In
the
coated
on
manifesto,
which
I
think
is
virtually
similar
to
a
lot
of
the
stuff
that
we
do
here
at
gate
lab
one
of
the
points
is
that
the
person
with
dirty
hands
is
correct,
and
it's
that
idea
of,
like
the
person
who's
in
it,
who's
actually
doing
it
or
is
taking
a
step
forward,
has
priority
towards.
You
know
the
correctness
of
a
solution.
Their
solution
may
not
actually
be
correct,
but
just
the
simple
act
of
moving
forward
and
moving
out
of
that
state
of
uncertainty
and
indecision
into
a
definitive
thing
that
we're
doing.
C
C
E
E
The
person
doing
it
has
has
ownership
over
it.
I
don't
think
it's
quite
it's
I
think
that's
the
kind
of
extreme
end
of
what
you
just
mentioned,
which
is,
if
a
person's
doing
it,
then
they
can
just
do
whatever
they
want
because
they're
doing
it,
that's
a
non-hierarchical,
managed
kind
of
approach.
Sorry
go
ahead.
D
E
E
A
lot
a
lot
of
the
issues
that
that
loomio
team
solved
with
their
software
is
how
to
turn
a
discussion
into
meaningful
action,
and
they
do
so
via
via
so
ting
and
an
online
facilitation
and
that
sort
of
thing,
so
they
they
saw
those
problems
where
oftentimes
a
group
would
deliberate
about
something
and
and
and
and
they
would
not
be
able
to
tell
what
like.
What
do
we
decide?
What
are
we
doing
now
and
email
trails
are
a
nightmare
right,
so
they.
E
Yeah,
so
they
sort
of
struggled
with
that
sort
of
thing,
so
their
software
directly
addresses
those
things
and
it's
all
about
close
the
sort
of
democratic
decision-making
and
there's
different
flavors
and
that,
but
some
but
I
thought
that
was
quite
interesting.
How
do
you
turn
a
discussion
into
action.
E
A
Of
the
steps
in
the
cycle
of
learning
is
that
they
often
get
skipped
is
the
period
of
reflection
right
in
that
period
of
compressed
action,
where
we're
actually
involved
in
an
activity
and
then
a
period
of
reflection
where
we
process
what
has
happened
and
that
that's
on
a
very
personal
level.
But
that
also
applies
to
groups
as
well,
who
are
working
on
spaces.
We're
working
in
with
uncertainty.
F
You
I
think
if
you're
going
to
point
out
a
problem,
it's
it
would
always
be
more
valuable
if
you
could
attach
a
proposal
or
even
a
solution
along
with
it.
I
could
spend
all
day
pointing
out
problems
with
things
in
life,
but
if
I
have
something
that
is
going
to
really
contribute
or
add,
results,
I
think
that
having
a
proposal
or
ideally
a
solution,
would
be
perfect.
I.
E
Think
there's
a
lot
of
value
in
in
in
what
you
just
said
and
and
when
you,
when
you
propose
something
and
it
doesn't
have
to
be
right
right,
and
so
it
does
take
a
lot
of
organizational
trust
like
if
I
post,
something
that's
wrong,
am
I
going
to
get,
am
I
going
to
get
attacked
or
am
I
or
people
can
iterate
on
what
I
said,
for
example,
because
there's
always
that
fear
like
if
I
say
something
wrong
with
people.
E
E
Oh
I,
don't
know,
but
then,
if
you
put
out
a
solution
like
a
potential
proposal,
even
if
it's
totally
up
their
own
creek,
especially
if
it's
wrong,
people
will
often
use
that
as
a
hook
to
discuss
it
and
then
some
more
information
can
come
out,
and
so
it's
an
interesting
facilitation
technique
as
well.
But
it
does
take
organizational
trust
as
I
say,
to
be
able
to
say
something
that
you
know
is
probably
wrong
and
that
it
won't
damage
you
in
the
process.
But
it
will
get
the
conversation
going.
A
E
That
cannot
be
overstated.
I've
worked
remotely
pretty
much
my
entire
career
and
having
in-person
meetings.
Just
there's,
there's
nothing
like
it
and
I
think
it's
for
teams
that
work
remotely
to
to
to
have
meatspace
meetups,
because
I
think
the
social
connections
you
make
during
that
carries
over
and
the
social
capital
that
you
create
with
each
other
just
creates
goodwill
and
and
ability
to
make
further
deeper
connections.
I,
just
don't
think,
there's
anything
like
it
is
something
you
know.
E
A
E
You
mean
the
visiting
grant
or
you
meaning
something
else
always
see
the
visiting
grant
the
person
has
to
state
has
to
live
in
the
city.
So
unless
you
have
a
concentration
of
team
members
in
one
city,
then
you're
out
of
luck,
that's
just
how
the
visits,
because
they,
what
what
they
don't
want,
is
to
have
a
whole
bunch
of
people,
say,
let's
all
go
to
Mexico
or
Hawaii
or
something
and
they
all
meet
there
and
none
of
them
live
there
like
they.
So
it's
it
has
to
be
a
person
who
lives
in
that
setting.
E
So
I
thought
there
was
a
specific
team
grant,
which
maybe
we
should
propose
that,
because
that
seems
cool
yeah.
C
A
F
I
think
that
sounds
amazing.
I
I
started
in
March
last
year,
so
I've
little
less
than
a
year,
I've
been
here
prior
to
me,
starting
there
were
support
meetups
I
believe
there
was
like
an
America
West
Coast
meetup
in
Vancouver
British
Columbia.
There
was
a
weekend
meetup
where
it
was
kind
of
meeting
of
the
minds
and
I
also
believe.
Prior
to
that
there
was
one
in
Thailand
where
it
was
like
meet
and
do
support
tickets
through
the
week
and
then
get
to
know
each
other
in
the
evening,
and
they
both
they,
both
sound.
F
Like
just
a
blast
to
me
I.
Would
I've
really
enjoyed
doing
that?
I
know
it's
it's
easier
for
some
like
those
with
families
and
pets
and
things
it
can
be
tricky
to
get
everybody
in
the
same
geographic
location
and
with
support.
We
are
extremely
globally
distributed,
so
it
would
be.
If
there
was
a
single
support
made
up.
Somebody's
flight
might
cost
100.
Well,
it
would
be
two
thousand
for
somebody
else
in
the
same
team,
but
that
sounds
great
I.
A
A
Before
we
run
out
of
time
talking
about
all
of
this
interesting
stuff,
as
we
as
we
do,
should
we
move
on
to
another
another
topic
or
were
there
more
follow-ups,
I
think
we
were
still
talking
about
full
circle.
Leadership
again,
like
I,
think
we've
spent
it.
We
could
spend
an
hour
on
each
one
of
these
at
all
old
topics.
I.
F
A
Definitely
felt
that
myself
and
so
I
started
thinking
about
how
how
do
I
manifest
these
different
roles
on
different
projects
and
in
different
teams.
Some
teams
I'm
the
dreamer
and
some
teams
I'm
the
organizer
or
the
optimizer,
and
just
how
do?
How
does
that
change?
And
that
prompted
me
to
think
about
the
Kenna
Finn
framework
for
understanding
systems
in
a
similar
sort
of
way
it
tries
to
characterize
systems
and
their
rules
in
relationship
to
larger
ecosystems.
E
In
the
document
here,
Carrie,
you
said,
leadership
and
ownership
are
often
conflated.
How
does
that
impact
our
relationship
to
the
work
we
do
or
the
work
we
choose?
Can
you
please
elaborate
on
that
point.
A
It
might
be
a
personal
way
of
interpreting
hierarchy,
but
I
often
see
that
the
person
who
owns
something
is
seen
as
the
leader
on
that
thing.
So,
for
example,
a
product
owner
right
there
in
the
name
product
owner
they're
often
they
also
seem
to
be
the
leader
in
that
they
show
us
the
direction
and
they
set
the
priorities
and
and
do
that,
so
it's
it's.
It's
the
dual
roles
of
both
activating
responsibility
for
something,
as
well
as
the
vision
for
something
and
those
are.
A
Those
are
two
separate
separate
identities
to
have
in
relationship
to
something
we
have
plenty
of
leaders
in
different
aspects
of
things
that
don't
necessarily
have
responsibility
for
delivery
or
responsibility
for
be
sure
something
happens
and
I.
Think
in
in
hierarchical
terms.
We
often
we
often
identify
leaders
as
being
responsible
for
things.
E
When
I
think
about
ownership
of
something
I
think
being
a
champion
for
that
thing,
getting
done-
and
maybe
this
is
this-
is
sort
of
my
personal
interpretation
here
or
what
I've
seen
at
it
lab
and
where
I've
seen
it
kind
of
where
I've
seen
this
sort
of
pattern
is
I
want
to
get
something
done,
but
I
I
don't
know.
If
I
can
do
it
by
myself
or
in
fact
I
can't
do
it
by
myself.
Otherwise
I
would
just
do
it.
E
So
I
have
to
ask
other
people
for
help,
and
that
doesn't
necessarily
make
me
a
leader
in
that
in
that
I
might
follow
what
this
other
person
has
suggested,
that
I
do
and
and
to
me,
if
I
ask
someone
for
help
I
or
whenever
anyone
sort
of
collaborates
in
something
I
always
assumed
that
I
have
something
to
learn
from
them:
I,
I,
I,
don't
know
it's
just
baked
into
my
brain
that
that
I
have
something
to
learn
from
everyone,
and
that
I
think
is
that.
E
E
Yeah,
maybe
is
that
part
of
the
answer
to
decoupling?
Those
is
something
like
everyone
has
something
to
learn
from
everyone
else
and
by
keeping
that
in
mind
and
still
doing
tasks,
you
know
leadership
just
allows
the
thing
to
much
forward
until
it's
done.
E
They
don't
necessarily
have
all
the
answers
or
have
all
of
the
all
of
the
authority
to
do
all
the
things
but
they're
the
champion
I,
like
the
word
champion,
because
that
decouples
it
from
that
sort
of
thing,
and
maybe
that's
why
yeah
sorry,
that
was
a
bit
of
a
ramble
and
it's
dumb.
No.
A
Japanese
really
interesting
word
and
like
I'm,
just
I'm,
just
reflecting
right
now
on
the
cultural
implications
of
ownership
versus
champion
being
age.
Where
does
it
being
a
champion?
Meme
is
something
and
so
exci
my
own.
My
own
mythology
and
stories
too,
don't
know
identified
of
that
work.
I
have
Cyrus
I'm,
responding
to
it,
so
yeah.
C
Well,
champions
kind
of
an
interesting
word
like
a
lot
of
sales
organizations
are
always
looking
for
that
champion
internally
to
sell
to
and
that
person
may
or
may
not
actually
be
the
one
that
controls
the
budget
but
they're
the
ones
that
are
pushing
through
a
particular
deal
right.
So
a
champion
of
gitlab
at
one
of
our
customers
might
not
have
the
purse
strings
to
buy
the
software,
but
they
are.
C
You
know
a
huge
advocate
for
the
software
platform,
so
yeah
I
think
that's
a
almost
another
word
to
throw
in
here
of
the
leadership
ownership
and
the
champion
and
kind
of
understanding.
There's
there's
slight
nuances
between
those
roles,
but
some
of
it
I
think
depends
on
the
organization
and
how
resources
follow
those
particular
roles.
A
D
A
F
A
D
Yeah
yeah
I
don't
want
to
hurt
you
back
cariann,
you
have
a
hot
stuff.
I
was
just
I
really
like
that,
because
it's
very
often
implicit
in
teams
and
as
it
was
in
that
in
an
article
or
in
that
section
and
I've
noticed
that
it
we've
done
a
lot
of
things
and
we
haven't
done
a
lot
of
things
in
my
previous
teams.
Now
it's
a
little
bit
different
since
it's
only
me
and
Eric
on
a
team,
it's
much
easier
to
like
we
are
both
supporting
each
other
and
it's
just
one-on-one
relationship.
D
Think
it's,
it
depends
on
a
domain
right,
like
you,
I
think
it's
Seth
was
mentioning
it
about
that
the
boundaries
and
how
you
can
achieve
much
quicker
things
within
the
boundary,
but
at
the
same
time
you
might
like
a
synchronization
between
the
team
stand
and
coming
up.
Instead,
interphase
is
harder
and-
and
the
interface
is
much
more
set
in
stone.
A
B
This
was
like
in
relation
to
this
quote
those
who
built
the
house
are
built
by
the
house,
and
it's
like
that.
The
culture
of
an
organization
is
basically
reflected
in
the
products
they
build,
like
basically
subconsciously,
but
you
can't
help
it
and
yeah
become
pretty
slow
in
lots
of
places.
No
I
always
like
it's
always
interesting
to
think
about
it.
A
Yeah
I'm,
actually
up
against
my
my
stuff
as
well
I,
want
to
thank
every
feel
free
to
continue.
I
need
to
drop
off
myself.
I
want
to
thank
everybody
for
participating,
though,
and
I
am
so
excited.
I
had
so
many
notes,
I
took,
and
so
many
threads
to
follow
up
on
so
as
ever,
I
am
completely
inspired
when
we're
getting
to
work
with
all
of
you.
Thank
you.
That's.