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B
Cool
so
let's
get
started,
welcome
everyone,
and
I
am
so
happy.
I
bugged
anush,
my
friend
and
my
former
co-worker
at
grosshackers.com
for
many
times,
and
we
we
got
him
to
join
us
to
to
talk
about
growth,
so
anush
and
I
we
know
each
other
for
many
years
now
right
like
so,
we
actually
were
co-workers
at
grosshackers.com.
B
So
anush
was
there
before
me
and
he
he
was
working
with
charles
closely
and
I
joined
as
the
newbie.
He
helped
me
a
lot
in
different
areas
and
he
has
been
also
working
in
roles
since
then
being
a
speaker
advisor
recently,
he
published
a
book
called
growth
hacking
for
dummies,
which
is
awesome,
I'm
very
proud
of
him,
so
I
I
will
hand
it
over
to
you
anush
it's
your
time.
B
A
Okay,
awesome
thanks
yeah.
This
is
exciting
because
I
she
says
she's
been
bugging
me,
but
I've
been
wanting
to
do
this
for
a
really
long
time
and
I
as
well
that's
what's
great
to
see
her
to
her
team
and
everybody
else
she
works
with,
and
I
I
think
part
of
the
reason
I
think
she
approached
me
was
because-
and
I
think
I've
been
taking
a
slightly
different
tack
with
growth,
which
you
know
when
you
hear
about
growth.
A
B
A
A
You
know
when
I
was
writing
the
book,
because
you
know
for
a
field
like
growth
right,
which
is
so
obsessed
with
data.
It
was
shocking
how
there
was
no
data
on
the
people.
You
know
everything
you'll
ever
read
about
growth.
People,
you
know,
will
be
this.
Oh
they're,
this
amazing
combination
of
left,
brain
and
right,
brain
and
they're,
analytical
and
creative,
and
I'm
like
this
is
useless.
I
cannot
use
this
information,
you
know
to
make
any
decision
on
who
should
be
on
the
growth
team,
who
should
be
a
growth
lead?
A
I
was
at
the
predictive
index
when
I
was
beginning
to
write
the
book
and
I'm
sure
most
of
you
all,
I
think,
may
have
gotten
the
assessment
link
I
sent
out
to
hila
right
and
that
may
have
been
illuminating
or
not
in
some
cases,
and
that
was
the
first
time
I
found
something
that
could
quantify
work.
Styles,
you
know,
for
you
know
anybody
doing
any
sort
of
role
right,
and
this
is
important
right
because,
just
as
we
have
our
business
metrics,
you
know
we're
all
up
on.
A
You
know:
here's
our
marketing
metrics
and
sales
metrics
and
non-stop
metrics
and
everything
else
you
can
think
of,
and
we
know
how
to
quantify
those
right
and
if
any
of
you
all
that
did
that
assessment,
you
all
would
have
seen
a
pattern
and
these
four
factors
called
a
b
c
and
d.
And
again
I
don't
want
this
to
become
a
talk
about
the
predictive
index,
because
this
can
that
can
be
a
whole
sort
of
three-hour
talk.
But
the
the
bottom
line
with
this
is
that
you
know.
A
Firstly,
this
is
different
from
personalities,
right
and
personalities.
Don't
predict
work
styles,
you
know
what
predicts
work.
Styles.
Are
you
know
these
natural
drives
that
we're
just
born
with?
We
are
hardwired
to
work
a
certain
way.
It's
our
sweet
spot
right
and
those
drives
are
what
ultimately
translate
into
behaviors.
A
We
see
at
work
and
I'll
just
do
a
quick
snapshot,
because
for
you
all
that
may
have
done
this
assessment
and
seen
your
pattern.
This
will
just
give
you
a
little
bit
more
color
as
to
you
know
what
those
mean,
but
you
have
these
four
factors
which
are
just
four
ways
of
quantifying
different
work.
Styles-
and
you
see
at
the
bottom
of
that
infographic
that
there's
that
plus
minus,
which
is
like
a
midpoint
and
the
one
two
three
on
each
side,
are
sigma
deviations
away
from
the
midpoint.
A
So
the
further
away
you
are
the
more
pronounced
that
particular
behavior
for
that
factor
may
be
for
you
right
and
so,
and
you
know
this
is
like
an
example
of
a
pattern
you
might
have
seen
and
using
the
predictive
index
there
are
17
different
patterns
or
work
styles
that
you
could
get
and
again
there's
no
right
or
wrong.
It's
just.
A
It
is
what
it
is
and
a
lot
of
it
is
influenced
by
just
again
what
you're
born
with
and
the
some
of
it
is
influenced
by
your
work
environment
as
well,
and
you
know
so
the
thought
I
had
when
I
was
writing.
The
book
was
like
okay,
I'm
going
to
go
survey,
some
great
growth,
people
and,
of
course,
heal.
I
was
on
that
list
and
you
know,
do
the
first
objective
analysis
of
okay,
what
are
work
style
patterns
of
great
growth,
people
right,
and
so
I
did
this.
A
Of
course,
I
think
I'm
the
only
person
on
the
planet-
that's
even
surveyed
sean
ellis.
So
I
have
his
pattern
too,
and
you
know
I
started
to
build
sort
of
this
hypothesis.
First,
that
okay,
I
think,
before
even
I
got
all
the
results,
that
almost
everybody
will
have
a
certain
pattern
and
that
would
almost
be
similar
to
sean's,
because
you
know
he's
mr
growth
hacking
right.
So
I'm
like
great
growth.
A
All
right
so
we'll
get
to
it.
So,
let's
let
me
talk
more
about
these
and
then
you
know
we
can
do
a
little
bit
of
a
poll
to
see
what
people
think
he
lies,
but
you
know
my
my
in-going
assumption
was
that
everybody
would
be
in
mavericks,
and
you
know
if
you're
as
old
as
me,
you
know
you
know
this
from
the
top
gun.
A
You
know
movie
right,
that's
what
tom
cruise's
character
was
called
and
just
like.
You
know
that
character,
right
completely
unbounded
by
rules
completely
outside
the
box.
Thinking
you
know
just
defined
by
that
way
of
operating
right
and
you
know,
but
then
this
other
pattern
showed
up
right,
which
was
the
individualist,
and
you
know
I
like
to
call
these
people
like
bulldogs
right.
They
just
won't.
A
Let
go
no
matter
what
and
you
know
you
want
to
spend
time
in
growth
now
and
you've
run
experiments,
and
you
know
it's
it's
if
you've
spent
any
time
in
growth,
you
know
that
most
of
your
tests
fail
right
and
that
can
get
pretty
demoralizing,
and
so
you
know
you
need
somebody
who
will
just
persist
in
the
face
of
constant.
No
smacks
in
the
face.
A
What
you'll
find
is
that
they
share
common
characteristics,
so
the
top
line
characteristics
are
different
as
to
what
they
express
as
the
most
but
you'll
see
that
most
of
them
are
driven
by.
You
know
the
need
to
challenge
the
status
quo
right
and
you'll
find
that
all
of
them,
no
matter
how
their
sort
of
primary
work
style
manifests.
All
of
them
are
extremely
goal,
oriented
and
extremely
results.
Sorry,
I
did
right
so
I'll
stop
here
and
then
you
know,
do
hilar's,
quick
poll
right.
B
A
Ring
main
one:
okay,
interesting,
okay,
I
I
think
so
so
what
her
pattern
actually
came
out
with
was
individualist,
right
and
and-
and
you
know
I
know
this
to
be
true,
because
I
worked
with
her.
You
know,
because
you
know
she's
freaking,
you
know
relentless
with
whatever
she
does,
and
you
know
I
I
think,
if
you're
picking
up
persuader
patterns,
I
think
that
may
be
a
function
of
the
experience
she's
had
since
then
of
you
know
getting
better
at
teams
and
you
know
getting
them
along.
You
know
for
for
the
ride.
A
All
that
meant
was
that
you
know
through
some
combination
of
self-awareness
or
training
or
maybe
even
intuition
or
some
combination
of
the
above.
You
know
they
figured
out
the
delta
between
the
way
they
were
hardwired
to
operate
by
default
and
how
they
needed
to
behave
to
be
able
to
achieve
their
goals
right.
So
this
is
not
a
hard
and
fast.
This
is
the
only
way
you
can
behave.
It's
just
it's
a
sweet
spot
right.
A
So
that's
about
sort
of
individuals,
but
growth
again
is
all
about
teams,
and
you
know
by
definition,
growth
is
about
charting
new.
You
know
new
courses,
finding
new
ways
of
doing
things,
and
so,
by
definition,
as
a
whole,
you
know
growth,
team
work,
styles,
they
focus
on
innovation
and
agility,
and
I
want
to
sort
of
explain
what
that
means.
You
know
by
just
backtracking,
almost
like
60
years
to
this
thing
called
the
competing
values
framework.
A
Again
it's
been
around,
you
can
google
it,
but
all
it
really
means
is
that
at
any
given
point
in
time
a
team
or
a
company
is
needs
to
operate
in
a
certain
way
and
when
they
do
by
definition,
that
competes
with
something
else,
because
they
have
to
do
things
a
certain
way.
They
cannot
do
things.
You
know
an
alternate
way
and
you
know
in
this
case
you
know
you
have
sort
of
these
set
of
four
values,
but
the
ones
that
are
competing
are
along
the
diagonal
right.
A
So
you're
like,
as
you
can
see
here
right,
so
you
either,
you
know,
do
it,
you
know.
Do
things
faster
you
like
do
things
right
right,
it's
like
you,
can't
have
both
right
and
so
you're
sort
of
you're
competing
between
sort
of
stability
and
flexibility
right.
So
what
do
you
value
more
of
order
and
control
or
innovation
and
change?
A
You
know,
and
then
you
have
the
other
set
of
competing
values
which
are
where
teams
are
more
internally
focused
versus
more
externally
focused,
so
right
so
more
focused
on
the
team
and
how
the
team
operates
versus
you
know
focusing
much
more
on
the
customer
and
the
results
they
need
to
get
not
to
say
that
they're
not
focusing
on
the
other
thing.
It's
just.
What
do
they
focus
on
most
right
and
something
is
always
going
to
have
to
give
and
these
values
that
you
see,
you
know
that
they
can
be
sort
of
expressed.
A
As
you
know,
teamwork
styles,
you
know
as
well
or
team
cultures
right,
and
so
this
is
the
same
thing
just
expressed
slightly
differently
and
sort
of
all.
This
means
right.
It's
simple
explanations,
right
cultivating
cultures,
and
this
can
apply
to
a
team
as
much
as
it
can
to
a
company
depending
on
the
size
stage.
All
of
this
and
cultivating
teams
again
very
cooperative,
it's
all
about
collaboration
teamwork,
that
internal
community
group
success.
A
You
know
whatever
that
may
bring
producing
cultures,
you
know,
are
all
about
independence
like
really
assertive.
It's
all
about
action,
all
about
results,
nothing
else,
matters
come
what
may
and
stabilizing.
Cultures
are
again
all
about
its
process
matters
more
than
anything
else.
Predictability,
matters
more
than
everything
else.
A
A
You
know
on
this
exploring
quadrant
right
and
if
we
were
to
take
a
look
at
characteristics,
then
right
of
this
exploring
culture
that
you
you'll
start
to
see.
You
know
things
that
map
to
the
way
you
need
to
operate
or
even
have
been
operating
so
far
right.
It's
because
you
know
I
don't
know
if
you
know
hila
talks
all
about
hey.
You
know:
we've
got
to
hit
n
number
of
tests
a
week
right.
That
means
there's
a
certain
level
of
speed,
there's
a
certain
level
of
urgency
around
it.
A
It's
all
about
you
know:
what
can
we
iterate
on?
It's
all
about
testing
learning
right,
there's,
always
something
new
to
figure
out
whether
it's
a
new
way
of
doing
things
internally
or
a
new
way
of
doing
things
for
the
customer
right,
and
so,
if
that
is
sort
of
characteristics
of
exploring
cultures,
then
the
kind
of
things
that
growth
teams
value
are
very
similar,
then
as
well,
because
you
know
because
a
team
like
this
by
definition,
values
novelty
right,
because
it's
all
about
ideas
like
I
don't
know.
A
If
hila
has
this
nice
big
backlog
of
ideas,
you
know
for
you
to
test
at
all
times,
but
there's
always
something
new
to
try.
It's
never
about
stagnation,
right,
it's
all
about!
What's
latest
and
greatest
right,
we've
been
we're
not
resting
on
our
laurels
at
all
right
and,
as
the
name
suggests
right,
it's
what's
new
happening.
You
know
within
the
universe
that
gitlab
operates
in
and
where
can
we
take?
Inspiration
from
you
know
any
other
place
that
we
can
then
apply
to
our
context
right
and
by
definition,
right.
A
A
A
Rethinking
certain
assumptions-
and
you
know
every
business-
felt
that
right
and
so
whenever
this
you
know
change
happening.
This
is
not
the
kind
of
group
that
freezes
right.
This
is
the
group
that
you
know
takes
it
on
and
says
hell
yes
bring
it
on,
and
so
this
is
what
then
translates
to
behaviors
as
a
team.
A
That
is
because
the
team
is
all
about
exploring
it's
by
definition.
It
is
not
a
conforming
team,
and
this
is
not
to
say
that
teams
that
want
to
conform
are
bad.
It's
that's
just
what's
not
appropriate
for
a
growth
team
right.
It's
we're
always
going
to
be
looking
for
things
to
do
differently.
You
know
and
uniquely
right-
and
you
know
there
are
you
know
this
thing
about
you
know,
enthusiastic
behaviors
tends
to
you
know,
raise
a
few.
A
You
know
objections
from
a
lot
of
people
when
they
hear
this,
but
you
know
it's
it's
the
kind
of
thing
where,
if
somebody
isn't
passionate
about
growth,
they're
not
gonna,
be
passionate
about.
You
know
ideating
as
well
or
coming
up
with
new
ideas,
they're
going
to
be
very,
very
satisfied
with
the
way
things
are
in,
maintaining
the
status
go
right
and
the
the
other
sort
of
behavior
that
the
team
starts
to
express.
A
B
A
A
A
So
even
team
work
styles,
you
can
look
at
everything.
We've
been
looking
at.
You
know
through
a
slightly
different
lens,
which
all
means
the
same
thing,
but
ultimately,
what
this
means
is
that
the
growth
lead
is
going
to
drive
the
culture
of
the
team
right
and
how
the
team
operates
and
I'll
show
you
some
data
as
to
what
this
sort
of
might
mean.
A
So
this
was
sort
of
the
survey
I
did
you
know
initially,
where
this
is
the
distribution
of
all
the
growth
leads,
and
you
know
you
can
say
hila
right
there
with
the
hq-
and
you
know
you
can
see
again
like
most
of
them
fall
within
this
innovation
and
agility
quadrant
right
as
sort
of
a
default
behavior
that
they
have
and
again
not
to
say
that
the
people
that
fell
outside
are
not
great.
Growth
leads
they're,
all
awesome,
okay
and-
and
I
will
emphasize
I
am
not
on
this
list
and
where.
A
They
come
from
data
right.
This
is
not
about
being
wishy-washy
and
saying,
I
think,
and
it's
maybe
in
no.
No,
it's
not
that's
not
the
way.
You
know
a
growth
team
communicates
right
and
but
also
it's
it's.
This
persuading
style
makes
sense
right,
because
you
saw
that
a
persuader
is
one
of
the
main
individual
work
styles
that
showed
up
for
growth
leads,
so
that
should
have
a
knock-on
impact
in
the
way
the
team
communicates
as
well
right
because
again,
it's
not
about
you,
know
healer's
opinion
or
the
highest
paid
person's
opinion.
A
In
fact,
there
are
no
passive
participants
in
any
growth
team,
which
means
everybody
knows
what's
happening,
which
by
definition
means
everybody
has
the
data.
Everybody
has
a
take
on
the
data
and
you
know
you
have
to
sort
of
participate
because
without
active
engagement
from
everybody,
the
best
ideas
will
never
surface
to
the
top
right
and
again,
we
all
have
limited
time
resources
at
our
disposal
right.
A
So
this
is
like
an
essential
part
of
how
the
growth
team
needs
to
operate,
that
decisions
need
to
come
from
active
participation
right,
and
this
is
not
about
taking
things
personally
and
it's
not
about
you
know,
hurt
feelings.
You
know
this
is
about
the
most
productive
conflict.
You
can
have
to
make
the
best
decision
possible
right.
So.
A
A
You
know
here's
a
few
questions
you
know
for
you
to
reflect
on
as
to
you
know
whether
there's
something
you
might
need
you
know
to
become
more
self-aware
about
yourself
or
tweak.
The
way
you
might
you
know
need
to
behave.
You
know
if
this
growth
team
is
going
to
hit
its
full
potential
right,
and
so
the
first
one
is
like
balancing.
A
You
know
the
need
to
get
things
done
versus
finding
better
ways
to
do
that
right
because
clearly
it's
not
about
I'm
just
gonna,
you
know
keep
testing
and
I'm
just
gonna
find
new
ways,
and
all
of
that
is
great
right,
but
ultimately,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
results
matter
right,
execution
matters.
So,
and
it's
always
this
ongoing
tension
right.
So
you
know,
do
you
find
yourself
leaning
more
one
way
versus
the
other?
You
know
or
have
you
found
a
way
of
balancing
these
two
needs.
A
Second,
one,
you
know,
it's
again
reflect
think
think
about
this
right,
like
if
growth
is
about
anything,
you
know
it's
about
charting
new
territory
right,
so
by
definition,
there
is
no
playbook
like
y'all
are
building
the
airplane
while
you're
flying
it
like
this.
The
biggest
cliche
there
is.
Is
that
that's
what
applies
to
the
to
growth
teams
right
so
like?
If
you're
constantly
going
to
need?
You
know
a
checklist
and
a
set
of
rules
right
by
by
definition,
that's
going
to
slow
a
growth
team
down
right?
A
A
But
the
third
one
is,
you
know:
can
you
change
directions
quickly,
right
and
like?
How
do
you
respond
right
and
like
what
was
the
outcome
whenever,
when
that
happened
and
again
I'll
go
back
to
like
the
covert
example
right,
like
everything
changed
everything
we
thought
we
knew
about
our
users
and
customers
all
went
out
the
door
right.
So
what
do
you
do
then?
Right
when
the
world's
most
important
decision
is
toilet
paper
right?
A
A
A
You
know,
there's
there's
been
a
way
it
works
right,
and
but
you
know,
if
you
have
to
come
up
with
new
ways
that
now
challenge
the
status
quo.
It's
like
how
do
you
do
that
right?
Is
that
even
accepted
like?
How
do
you
influence
right?
And
you
know
I
think,
answering
these
questions
for
yourself,
you
know
will
start
to
give
you.
A
I
think,
a
much
better
sense
of
you
know
how
much
you
might
need
to
adapt,
because
this
is
this
is
going
to
like
you
know,
the
speedometer
is
going
to
be
at
100
all
the
time
right.
So
this
will
tell
you
how
how
much
of
a
stretch
it
might
start
to
become
you
know
or
whether
you
need
some
additional
assistance
in
the
form
of
some
training.
A
You
know.
Maybe
there
are
more
specific.
You
know
one-on-ones
or
other
frameworks
that
you
might
need
to
lean
on.
You
know
to
just
help
you
bridge,
however
big
or
small,
that
gap
may
be.
You
know
for
you
to.
You
know
ultimately
be
in
a
situation
where
you
know
pedal
to
the
metal.
You
know
all
the
time
and
yes,
restless
yes,
but
restless
doesn't
lead
to
stress.
A
Right
and
so
the
last
thing
I'll
sort
of
go
over
is
you
know
strategic
priorities,
because,
ultimately,
you
know
the
patterns
of
growth
leads
yes
great,
and
you
know
impact
on
the
way
the
team
works.
Yes
right,
but
every
growth
team
has
a
set
of
priorities
right
and
the
mistake
that
everybody
tends
to
make
is
that
you
know
when
they
go
and
hire
somebody,
and
you
know
that
person
starts
to
work
out.
They
say.
Oh
I'm
just
gonna.
I
need
to
clone
that
person.
A
A
You
know
six,
seven
things
might
be
that
the
growth
team
might
need
to
focus
on
right,
and
you
know
to
my
amazement:
they
picked
something
that
you
know
had
a
distribution
that
was
equal
in
all
quadrants
of
the
way
a
team
needs
to
operate
right.
So
one
thing
that
will
become
immediately
obvious
to
you
right
is
that
if
we
hired
more
people
like
hila
right
and
they
you
know-
fell
in,
you
know
on
that
intersection
of,
let's
say
teamwork
and
experience,
and
innovation
and
agility.
A
Everything
that
had
to
do
with
process
and
precision
and
results
and
discipline
would
suffer
right
or
if
we
over
indexed
on
a
lot
of
people
like
sean,
you
know
hire
a
bunch
of
mavericks
like
it's.
It
that'll
be
like
you
know,
that's
like
brownian
movement
right.
You
will
make
no
sense
after
a
month
right
and
everything
will
suffer
because
everybody
will
say.
Oh,
this
is
a
great
idea.
A
I'm
going
to
do
that,
I'm
going
to
do
that,
but
everything
else
is
going
to
fall
through
the
roof
right,
and
you
know
just
as
a
practical
example
right
like
if
you,
if
you
know
you're
a
data
analyst
right,
you
know
by
god,
I'd
want
somebody
who
was
focused
on
results
and
discipline
more
than
anything
else
right
and
where
that
was
their
work
style
strength,
because
you
know
that's
the
last
thing
I
want
to
play.
You
know
fast
and
loose
with
right,
but
you
know,
as
a
you
know.
Second
example,
you
know.
A
B
C
B
Yeah
yeah,
I
think
I
never
like.
I
feel
like
before
news.
Nobody
really
talk
about
the
people
side
of
growth
and
it's
very
interesting
like
you,
you
don't
think
about
that
and
to
the
early
to
the
early
kind
of
my
my
result,
I
feel
like
everyone
is
born
with
certain
characteristics
or
styles,
but
in
working
growth.
It
also
shapes
you
because
it
makes
you
realize
you,
you
cannot
just
go
on
yourself.
You
need
to
convince
people,
you
need
to
influence
others,
you
need
to
get
buy-in
right.
B
You
need
to
do
a
lot
of
that
and
then
you
also
need
to
have
ideas,
and
so
I
feel
like
working
in
growth,
help
you
become
a
more
holistic
person,
maybe
overall
force
you
because
otherwise
it's
hard
to
be
successful.
Wait.
I
guess
we
can
open
up
the
time
for
team
to
ask
you
some
questions.
I
have
the
first
one
and
everyone
please
feel
free
to
add
more
for
for
a
new
growth
team.
What
are
some
common
challenges?
B
A
A
A
Yeah,
so
I
I
think
a
new
growth
team
faces
the
same
problem
that
a
new
startup
faces,
and
that
problem
is
one
of
trust,
and
you
know
the
the
idea
of
a
nordstrom
metric
tries
to
get
at
that
right
because
it's
trying
to
you
know
give
everybody
a
unified
metric
to
care
about
right,
but
at
the
the
at
the
end
of
the
day
you
know
one
of
the
things
you
know.
If
you
recall
was
you
know
this.
A
B
A
A
A
The
potential
to
you
know
make
step
change
impact
on
the
company,
and
this
team
will
never
be
able
to
make
those
kinds
of
high
quality
decisions
if
everybody
doesn't
have
a
chance
to
participate
and
be
heard
as
to
why
and-
and
you
know
like
you
know-
even
when
we
were
at
growth,
hackers
and
maybe
you're
doing
this
here
too
right
is
when
we
pick
the
I
score
right
for
a
particular
test.
That's
like
a
that's
like
a
proxy
in
a
way
of
trying
to
prioritize
and
decide
on.
A
A
A
So
if
you're
going
to
be
part
of
this
team,
like
you
need
to
have
as
much
information
as
everybody
else
right,
but
then
also
be
prepared
to
sort
of
take
a
stand
one
way
or
the
other,
it
just
can't
be
like
okay,
fine.
That
sounds
like
a
good
idea.
Let's
do
that!
It's
like
come
on,
since
it's
not
gonna
work.
C
Yeah,
thank
you
and
thanks
a
lot
for
taking
the
time
to
give
this
talk.
I've
never
seen
anything
from
this
perspective
about
the
team
makeup,
and
so
it's
super
interesting,
I'm
wondering
if,
if,
if
you
have
an
opinion
on
this
or
if
it
even
is,
if
it
changes,
but
how
might
let's
say
the
makeup
of
the
team
ought
to
change,
need
to
change
as
it
evolves
over
time.
C
So
I'd
say
that
right
now
we
are
still
like
doing
the
foundational
elements
of
like
the
the
experimentation
framework
and
data
analysis
and
getting
those
things
in
place
so
more
in
what
you
know.
A
crawl
phase
and
crawl
walk
run,
but
let's
say
that
we're
at
the
run
phase
and
those
things
are
good,
we're
past
that
how
what
are
the
types
of
people
you
may
want
to
bring
into
the
team?
You
know
initially
versus
later,
when
everything's
kind
of
set
up
and
you're
humming.
C
Yeah,
it
makes
sense,
I
mean
it's
it's
I
think
what
you're
saying
is:
there's
probably
no
hard
fast
rule
or
formula
it
really.
It
depends
based
on
what
the
goals
of
your
team
and
your
company
are
and
your
current
makeup,
and
so
you
should
just
constantly
compare
those
to
make
sure
that
you're
not
too
far
out
of
sync.
C
C
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
think,
we've
changed
our
objectives.
We
had
the
same
set
probably
for
the
first
year,
but
we're
now
as
we're
getting
better
data
and
we're
learning
what
actually
impacts
the
things
that
we
care
about.
Those
are
evolving,
so
we
switched
our.
You
know
our
focus
areas
once
and
now
we're
talking
about
expanding
them
a
bit
again
so
yeah.
I
think
we're
probably
going
through
that
a
little
more
rapidly
on
the
team.
Now
as
we,
we
figure
out
our
right
place
to
focus
yeah.
D
Yeah
cool
yeah,
so
I've
only
been
in
growth
like
growth,
specific
field
for
around
two
years.
I
was
wondering-
and
this
is
just
out
of
curiosity-
do
you
find
that
the
people
that
you
survey
when
they
start
a
career
in
growth,
is
that
kind
of
the
career
that
they
end
up
pursuing
for
the
rest
of
their
the
rest
of
their
lives?
I
guess
is
that
something
that
you've
seen
or.
A
No,
not
at
all,
in
fact.
The
sad
reality
is
that
almost
all
the
big
names
and
growth
don't
do
growth
anymore
at
a
company
right,
they're,
all
either
advisors,
investors,
teachers-
just
like
you
know
brand
balfour-
runs
reforge
and
you
know
guillaume.
Caban
is
now
an
investor,
and
you
know
it's
like
what
the
hell
man
yeah.
A
A
Yeah
well
see
the
I
I
think
you
know
this
is
something
I'm
discovering
you
know.
This
is
like
the
burden
of
knowledge.
Is
you
know
I'm
discovering
every
day
how
little
I
know
and
how
bad
I
am
at
so
many
things,
because
it's
like
every
time.
Every
time
I
think
I'm
like
okay,
I
think
I've
got
this
experimentation
thing,
cracked,
like
fine,
great
and
then
suddenly,
there's
this
team
stuff.
That
shows
I'm
like
come
on
man.
A
So
now
I'm
going
to
transall
for
this
team
stuff,
and
then
I
do
the
team
stuff
and
now
suddenly,
I
need
to
know
about
this
budgeting
stuff
and
I'm
like
come
on.
It's
like
I
just
barely
got
competent
at
something,
and
so
I
I
think
if,
if,
if
you
wanted
to
there's
this
ongoing,
I
think
set
of
things
that
will
keep
you
busy
for
the
rest
of
your
life.
B
B
And
I
also
feel
like
the
growth
is
a
hard
job.
That's
my
that's
my
one
of
my
honest
answer.
I
think
growth
is
hard
because
there's
no
end
to
growth
right
right.
Like
you,
you
all
you.
If
you
are
successful
in
one
product
there
will
be
more
product
given
to
you
like.
If,
if
you
reach
a
certain
milestone,
there
will
be
another
milestone,
as
the
next
quarter
is
okr
or
next
year's
okr.
B
A
A
C
I
also
wonder
if
one
of
the
traits
that
is
you
know
the
maverick-
let's
say
something
about
that
trade.
Is
there
they're
adventurous?
They
want
to
try
new
things,
they
want
to
challenge
themselves
and
look
for
new
opportunities,
and
I
think
that
in
itself
is
going
to
lead
people
to
take
on
new
roles
and
new
new
areas,
and
I
think
the
fact
that
growth
is
so
critical
to
let's
say
startups
and
early
stage
companies
that
becoming
an
investor
or
an
advisor.
C
If
you
can
spot
those
those
rocket
ships
before
they've
launched,
then
you
know
you
can
get
a
couple
of
those
wins
and
all
of
a
sudden
you
that's
now
your
full-time
gig
is
investing
in
these
companies.
It
kind
of
makes
sense
that
you
see
that
progression
of
these
people,
who
really
are
talented
at
growth,.
D
No,
no,
no,
I'm
just
wondering
like
because
growth
is
such
a
new
or
it's
such
a
new
area.
I
think
especially
in
the
world
of
like
startups
and
tech
companies,
and
I'm
wondering
if,
if
anyone
has
truly
seen
any
longevity
with
it
like
because
I
I
truly
enjoy
like
what
I
do
for
growth,
and
I
think
growth
is
all
of
those
things.
It's
very
exciting.
There's
so
many
problems
to
solve,
and
I'm
just
wondering
like
do
people
hit
that
point
where
they
get
essentially
like
overwhelmed
by
it
all
like
you're
right.
D
A
I
mean
there
are
already
products
out
there
that
can
automate
your
sort
of
av
tests
and
variants
and
stuff.
There
are
there's
already
products
out
there
that
can,
you
know,
use
ai
to
write
copy.
There
are
already
products
out
there
that
can
run
ads
and
variants
for
you
so,
like
I
don't
think
most
marketers
and
growth
people
realize
this,
but
a
lot
of
these
people
are
going
to
be
automated
out
of
a
job
in
the
next
five
to
ten
years
right.
A
So
the
the
the
only
thing
that
is
safe,
you
know,
is
the
aspect
of
growth
that
requires
us.
You
know
to
be
humans,
so
every
time
you
know
you
know-
and
this
has
been
maybe
more
I'll
use
me.
I
shouldn't
say
you
I'll
say
so.
Every
time
I
feel
like
I've
gotten
expertise
at
a
you
know
certain
way
of
doing
things
or
a
certain
framework
or
a
certain
channel.
A
A
Or
or
on
the
flip
side,
maybe
you
know
ultimately
on
all
growth
comes
down
to
understanding
people's
motivations
right
and
giving
them
what
they
want
right.
I
don't
think
machines
can
understand
that,
because
machines
operate
in
a
you
know
in
a
binary
quantitative
world,
whereas
almost
half
of
that
decision
of
you
know
how
do
you
grow?
Something
is
purely
qualitative.
D
I
I
do
have
one
more
question
and
this
is
just
out
of
like
just
to
put
into
context
I've
taken
like
a
lot
of
like
the
organizational
like
teamwork
stuff,
and
I
was
wondering
if
you
saw
like
any
traits
that
were
that
are
prevalent
in
these
like
growth
themes
that
you
can
kind
of
translate
into.
Oh,
are
there
specific,
like
gallup,
strengths,
that
these
most
of
these
people
have,
or
it
doesn't
really
depend
on
the
type
of
person.
A
Yeah,
no,
I
think
again,
if
we
go
back
to
you
know,
I
I
get
these
these
questions,
I
think,
were
the
closest.
I
could
so
far
come
right
to
honing
in
on
traits
like
genetic
traits
that
people
on
these
teams
might
exhibit,
because
these
are
the
questions
that
basically
for
all
the
people
that
have
told
me.
A
A
B
Yeah
so
nicole,
I
added
the
link.
The
gross
pm's
actually
did
a
gallop
strength
test.
Of
course
I
forced
them.
So
so
you
can,
you
can
get
to
see
their
results
there.
We
should.
I
know
you
have
done
it
right.
I
don't
know
whether
dave
has
done
yet,
but
we
should
have
the
more
team
members
to
that.
I
think
that's
a
that's
a
really
good
one.
D
Yeah
it
was,
it
was
nice.
I
remember
doing
that
and
then
looking
at
all
the
strengths
of
my
team
and
figuring
out
the
best
ways
to
communicate
to
them
or
to
make
my
like
to
get
my
point
better
across
in
a
way
that
that
like
spoke
to
them
so
yeah.
Oh
definitely
dave
get
the
book
if
you've
never
taken
and
get
the
book.
B
Yeah,
I
think
we
are
almost
at
time.
I
really
want
to
take
the
opportunity
to
thank
you
anush
for
joining
us
and
like
share
your
wisdom
and
share
your
unconventional
thinking
with
us.
Like
I,
I
feel
like
a
lot
of
things
you
said
today,
for
example,
the
machine
learning
will
will
automate
us
out
of
our
job,
it's
good
and
bad,
to
hear
that
right.
But
it's
good
to
hear
that.
It's
that
that's
that's
cool.
I
remember
when
we
worked
at
growth.
Hackers
anush
is
always
like
that.
B
D
B
Tried
the
same
reward
every
time
it
doesn't
work
very
quickly
and
he
began
to
vary
he's
a
word,
I'm
like
that's
very
nerdy
and
gross
and
also
fun
person,
so
yeah,
I'm
I'm
so
glad
we
get
to
share
that.
Like
learn
from
you
and
hear
your
insights
here,
you
share
a
lot
of
your
wisdom
with
us.
Thank
you
so
much
anush.