GitLab Learning & Development, 30 Aug 2021

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From YouTube: Live Learning - Career Conversations with your Team

Description

This live learning was part of our Career Development Skill of the Month. To learn more, see our handbook page: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-group/learning-and-development/career-development/

A

Hi everyone, I'm jc bander on the learning and development team, and I will be taking you through this career conversations with your team member session today. Just a reminder, this is part of our career development still the month that we have going on right now. This is our last session of the month, but there are some past sessions on different topics that you can take a look at on the career development pate handbook page.

A

If you would like to go back and look at those, the learning objectives for today are you'll: learn how to discuss career development with your team members, you'll identify different ways to approach your team on difficult topics about career development and then illustrate how to help your team members develop at their current level.

A

So with that, we have well, we have only two breakouts this time and they're going to be a little longer so that you all can spend more time talking.

A

So if you've been to these in the past couple weeks, the directions are pretty much the same. So as a group, there will be two scenarios on the next slide. You'll pick one of them and work through it make sure you nominate someone to talk about what your group summarizes and you can utilize the agenda to take notes.

A

You'll have 10 minutes in your breakout room and then we'll have 10 minutes to debrief when we come back and then, if you do get through one full scenario, you can start working on the next one and then we will come back to debrief I'll, try to make sure to send little reminders on how much time you have left. So you know, but on slide. Five is where you'll find the scenarios there are two. Does anyone have any questions before we jump in and into groups? And I don't think I said this.

A

The session is geared towards managers, but you don't have to be a manager to be here, so just wanted to call that out. All right, you should be prompted to join.

A

Welcome back sorry to pull you out of your conversations.

B

A

Just getting good.

A

Sorry you'll be back in the same groups again, so you can maybe finish, wrap up your conversation from this one. um Okay, did any group talk about scenario? One that scenario was you started managing a team six months ago you have four direct reports. One of them is performing well but has not talked to you about career development. What steps should you take.

C

Team four talked about that: okay and- um and we we didn't think it was odd that, like six months ago, you took this team on this person's performing. Well that you hadn't had a a career conversation. Some people naturally bring it up because they're very focused on their career plan. They have a career plan everywhere they go. Other people um need to have kind of structure to to build a career plan.

C

um So we appreciated the structure that gitlab has put around this conversation and just have the conversation. Now is the time to have the conversation.

C

um We also talked about um ics needing to be proactive in terms of voicing what either what they want or the questions that they have and look to the manager to help answer those questions um and potentially provide um project stretch projects. But then you have to balance that with like what are you giving this ic too much um so um and the other thing that we talked about I'm just looking at our notes was: do you squeeze this conversation in um or make it part of all of the one-on-ones?

C

Or do you have it kind of part of a one? Once a quarter conversation or whatever that may be, um so I I don't really think it's great practice to try to squeeze it at the end. um So I've preferred intended to have a specific meeting set up. Where you have these discussions.

C

um Anybody else from team four want to add anything.

D

Covered well leslie. Thank you.

C

Great note, taking summers.

D

A

Did any other group talk about scenario, one that they have anything they want to add.

E

We've only talked about it briefly, agreeing with leslie that it's not unusual that it's been six months, but I think a quick remedy would be to just kind of bring it up as part of the one-on-one to say: hey, you know it's been six months. Would you like to you know like? I would love to talk to you about your career.

E

You know. Where are you with your planning? Do you want to touch on it here in our one-on-one, or do you want to dedicate like our next one-on-one twitter career conversation, trying to feel them out with like how much guidance do they want to have? Do they already have this whole plan that they eager to share with you, or do they need some coaching to kind of figure out what those next steps might look like for them, but really leaning into that manager of one value?

E

And it's like hey, like I'm here, to support you advocate for you. What are you looking for and then similar to what group four had said, looking for kind of pet projects looking for some stretch, goals that they can do now and then always make sure that we're socializing that education credits that they have available to them, that you can go on if you want to go out and get a certificate or something like that awesome. Let's, let's do that, because not enough people are doing shameless plug on jc's behalf.

E

Yes, thank you.

A

All right: well, we can move to scenario. Two. A direct report has indicated. They are currently not interested in growing to the next level or developing further, as they are happy in their current role. What steps would you take? Did any groups talk about this.

B

We did, I think, one of the a few things that I took away from the conversation I think we took away from the conversation were uh it's always important to make sure that you're on a level playing field in terms of what career growth looks like so asking the question up front like what does career growth look like for. You helps ensure that you're both talking the same thing, because there might be aspects that they hope to be investing into that you can immediately flag of like no. These are.

B

These are things that are contributing positively to your career growth. um Two I think uh andrew made a really good comment of like some. Some roles require more hunger for growth than others, so there could be an alignment issue if they're in a high-growth or high hunger role, like an sdr role with zero desire to to you know, have that career growth. um It's it's impossible to not be moving as people um if we're not moving we're dead. um So so it's a it's a fallacy.

B

To think that you can't you can't, or you can stay in the same spot and then, lastly, as good lab grows, we ought to be increasing the caliber of folks that we bring into roles. So what it took to be.

B

um You know the in my role two years ago might be looked different than what it looks like to be in this role two years from now, um which means that we ought to be continuously leveling up the existing team as well, um and we want to make sure that we are empowering people to be able to do that.

A

Yeah, those are really great points I think leveling up and also recognizing that there's a lot of growth within each level as well so yeah great points.

A

Any other group talk about this that wants to share something.

F

Well, I can, I can add something we we also said, maybe try to find out why the employee doesn't want to step up in case they want to share, um because it might be the case that they generally want, but not now or that they maybe don't want to step up in a direct line. I'm more looking for. I don't know going from something operational to more strategic or whatsoever. Yeah, um that's yeah! That was part of the conversation we had.

A

Yeah, that's a great point.

A

Perfect, okay! Well, we can move on to the next breakout. Let me share my screen here: okay, so this will be same directions as last time. You can pick one of the two scenarios to work through. uh Have someone summarize your group's conclusions when we get back to the big group to debrief, you can use the agenda to take notes.

A

You'll have 10 minutes in your room and then, if you do get through the first scenario, you select, you can start working on the next one and we'll all come back and debrief and the scenarios are on slide nine for you. So any questions before you go into the rooms again.

A

No, all right, you should be prompted to join. Welcome back everyone. I hope you were having great conversations um we'll start off by discussing scenario one if anyone talks about that. So that is a direct report has indicated they're ready to move to and are performing at the next level. What steps would you take? Did anyone talk about this.

G

Yeah group three did- um and we looked at this and our eyebrows kind of raised up, because the first question our group had was: is this individual contributor happy in their role or are they going to be a flight risk because they know that they're performing above and beyond the call of duty?

G

um What we spoke about was suggestions for who you could call you know, call or talk to for a coffee chat to talk about what that growth looks like clearly defining some of the you know, barriers to entry to understand that program or upgrade promotion path in the handbook or whether it be a previous experience and to just be completely transparent with them. As far as you know, here's what we've heard as far as the organization is structured.

G

Here's what head count may be looking like sharing your experiences with previous individual contributors in your in your past and just making sure that there's not really a guarantee but to try to have a two-way, transparent conversation to understand.

G

Like are you trying to make a jump in six months and if you don't get it, are you leaving kind of thing right just to you know, be prepared to see if they're miserable or if this is just the start of the conversation.

A

Yeah, those are really great points. Did any other group talk about scenario, one that has anything to add? No. Everyone else talked about scenario, two okay. We can go on to that. So a direct report has said: they're ready to move to the next level that they're not fully performing at their current position. What steps would you take.

E

We talked about starting with the job family, just level setting on expectations and almost treating like a checklist like going through like okay, yes, you're doing this. Yes, you're doing this yesterday not doing this, so let's figure out a step and a plan timeline to get you. What would we need to see? And then you know in the background soliciting that support from you know, stakeholders and the leadership structure to get support like just make sure that we've got a plan and we're communicating that to the team member.

E

So it's not no just not yet, but let's come up with a plan together that everybody feels good about.

H

I think I think we came up with um the same thing um and you know basically um invite the team member to do shattering.

H

uh I believe that's so that was uh one of the words um that christine wrote down on the notes right christine.

I

Yeah yeah so basically just to to show the the candidate that potentially to to show what's involved whenever you know you're, taking on tasks that are of that level and then to um you know through shadowing, to kind of a soft approach to show them that it might not be ready yet, but then to complement that with a with a plan. For you know coaching and training and focus on their development in the right direction.

D

We also talked about um our team, the just importance of when they first say that don't immediately go into you know, prescriptive mode of this is what you need to do, but do take an opportunity to seek to understand like all right. What's the driver behind the wanting to move to that next level, so you at least understand the motivation.

D

Then, and given the gap um dude talk about, you know the objective criteria for what what the expectations for the role are, and we talked about the importance of making sure those required capabilities are not vague and uh got personal experience with having some things that are too vague and and working on that now. So I encourage you all. If you've got job families, please make sure they're, accurate and and aligned with like what what good looks like and then have a candid conversation of all right.

D

Let's have the team member assess themselves, you assess them and then talk about all right. Where is the the delta which the gap where you identify gaps where possible, um you know, explain, show what good looks like or show examples, so that there's more of an awareness of what you know current performance is versus desired performance.

D

It it's, I will say it's tougher at get lab because things are less defined here than it may be. You know bigger companies, so uh it's easier said than done.

C

And then, just to add on to that, you know the other thing that that john asked um was: how do you?

C

How do you have the conversation with your direct report? So like does if the direct report just kind of springs, this on you, so they've been working up in their mind, like I'm ready for a promotion, I deserve this promotion, but you all have never had the conversation together, and so um you know one thing that we talked about was to um david brought up like seek to understand like. Why is this person?

C

Why have they decided in their mind that they're ready for a promotion um and then the other thing that that I had mentioned was um if, if you don't have time or if you as the manager, are not ready for the conversation right then, and there then um taking a you know not necessarily shutting down the conversation.

C

But, let's just say: okay, let's both you and I write up why we think you know kind of our thoughts on you getting to the next level and let's have a very um a scheduled time to continue to have this conversation in more detail where we're both prepared for the conversation.

C

Because nothing is is nothing feel, in my opinion, nothing like it doesn't feel good to have a conversation where you've got all these things that you want to go through and your leaders like. Oh, I have nothing because I wasn't prepared for this.

E

But leslie, I think you bring up a really good point. These kinds of conversations can get emotional quickly and when they get emotional they can go off the rails.

E

So I think that's a really good point to say like as the mayor like all right time out like let's take a collective breath and like if we need to schedule time later to continue the conversation, so everybody can cool down. I think that would be a good good advice. Yeah.

E

Having seen that worked successfully in the past yeah.

A

Awesome well, that was a great discussion. um We can move on to closing this out unless anyone else has anything they want to add.

A

Okay, um let me share my screen quick.

A

Okay again, this is part of the august career development skill of the month, and here you can see an outline of what the different topics were for the different weeks, and if you want to learn more about those topics, you can go to the career development handbook page. It should all be there and then some great resources that you can use are building an individual growth plan.

A

We have it set up as a learning path in get lab learn, so you can share that with your team members and they can start filling out their individual growth plan, and then we also have an achievement tracker that they can check out as well, where they can track all the things that they've done, which can be really helpful, especially when having you know these conversations with the team members.

A

Does anyone have any questions before we in the call today.

H

D

How often do you all have quarterly career development conversations or what's your typical cadence.

D

I'll be honest: I've I've, let mine slip. So I'm like all right action item for me. Let's uh get get something scheduled, so we make make sure making make time for this important topic.

C

Yeah we I try to do it twice a year, and I do think that um so I had a few leaders on my team where, like their per their career like I was, it was very defined, like I knew what their role, what they wanted to be in one of my um former direct reports just left to go, be a cmo and like that was the direction that he wanted to go, um which was awesome um but yeah, so so two times a year.

C

But again it depends on the direct report, if they're more more ambitious in the sense of like to take this former person. As an example like I couldn't offer him the cmo job here at git lab right, so we only talked about it twice a year, not every quarter in terms of um so curious. What other folks do or would like to do.

J

Being this is my fourth day here with ken luck. Oh.

C

Welcome you're, an expert.

J

In my past you know positions um I used to manage the meetings on a quarterly basis and they were separate from the one-on-ones, because I wanted to give it that full attention and that seemed to be you know, worked well and I really put the responsibility on the team member to say. You know you need to drive this and I'm here to help support you get there and holding them accountable to you know, moving things forward. Then it worked well.

J

um I was able to promote two people to manager positions within our organization, um so I was really proud of proud of that. Yeah.

D

I added another one of uh how do you all handle scenarios where the team member just says I don't know, I don't know what I want next. I don't know what I want to develop. I don't, I don't know.

E

An exercise that I had one of my mentors years ago asked me to do when I wasn't sure where to go, was to take a piece of computer paper and draw a line, a big t at the top and bottom and write pros and cons, and then over the course of a week write all of my favorite things that I like to do at work and then, on the other column, right all the things I didn't like doing at work, and then we met at the end the beginning of the next week and then talked about those kind of what were the themes of the things I liked to do versus not what to do and that kind of helped provide some clarity to where what will be next.

E

For me, because, like is it people management? Is it something else, and so that provided that clarity? For me.

D

I like that, as long as you set the expectation that look you might list some things, you don't like about your current job. Well, yeah go away, you might don't have to do those things, but.

E

Right but it's like, but what are the things that motivate you and then I was also asked: what motivates you for your job? What are those top three things and then that can provide some clarity as well, even for us as managers, it's like alright. Let me make sure that I'm doing those things where possible to continue to motivate you.

B

One of the things that I try to communicate for the things that are not the fun aspects is just communicating to the people like. I want you to be a leader in this space and I want you to to be a leader by example, because other people are going to be looking to you to follow these things, and I know they're not fun. But if, if you have go into this with a good attitude, everybody else is going to go into this with a good attitude.

D

All right I'll add one more. um The the linkedin learning course talked about one of the you know four reasons. I think it was of why people don't have these conversations, and one of them was fear I'll, be uh I'm curious of yeah from you all.

D

Is there I'm curious of what fears do you all see, because the the one that resonates with me is the the fear of having the conversation understanding the path the team member wants to go, but like not being able to offer that path right? um That shouldn't stop us from having those conversations but like anyway. That's that's one right just to be vulnerable is like that's a fear. I have in some of these curious to your perspectives.

D

Either, what's your fear up, afraid of and having the conversations either as a manager or something or a direct report, or if you specifically, if that that notion of fear of not being able to offer something to you know a solution to where the person wants to go any thoughts there.

G

David, so I'm an individual contributor, um and for me the thing that brings me some fear anxiety when saying here's the things that motivate me, here's some of the strengths that I have here's, some of the weaknesses that I have and based on that my interpretation is. This is a a good next step for me. What brings me anxiety is when there's a pretty knee-jerk reaction to why my path doesn't make sense, and, what's valuable to me, is to have like a really honest and transparent conversation from the manager to say hey.

G

You know, I agree with some of these things. What I like about that is this right.

G

um As far as the reality of how we get there, it may take more steps than than you interpret it right like it might take you literally years to get where you want to go, but I'm happy to help you on that journey right and then make it a little bit more collaborative as as opposed to prescriptive, which is something that you mentioned earlier to say.

G

You know, let's say today: you're an individual contributor and your top goal is to be the vice president of sales right, fantastic you're, not going to go from cold calling people to vice president of sales right. So let's make these measurable and attainable goals, and let's take the small steps today to get you to the next step. That gets you to the next step um and then just have a candid conversation right generally speaking here at gitlab.

G

It takes this amount of time on average to get to the next roll and here's the boxes that you need to check and, from my perspective, as a manager. Here's the specific things that you could work on, um because then I feel like hey. I didn't get a no you're, not ready for the next step. What I got was action um and that, for me, takes a lot of fear away as opposed to hey, I don't think you're ready for that next step or hey.

G

I don't think that's a really clear uh promotion path for you versus hey. Let me guide you on that journey that alleviates a lot of the fear for me. It doesn't make me feel, like my my dream, is unattainable or unrealistic or ridiculous yeah. I like that.

D

Thanks andrew good- and you said something that um gave me thoughts too, I love how you said: hey don't just talk about the next role but like yeah, then roll after that, just like where you went ahead. Think about the critical skills you're going to need in those roles and don't just talk about yeah that next step, because, like career developments right it's much longer term than that, like that.

C

I think sometimes for me it's the fear of like not having all the answers. If my direct reports ask me questions, and they you know, and- and I want to be able to provide them answers it's something that I need to work on like in terms of coaching on a weekly basis like I want to know all the answers and I'm going to help that person by telling them the answer, but sometimes telling them.

C

The answer is really best suited in asking better questions and getting them to think more through kind of what they what they want, while still providing. You know some some guidance, but really um you know you hear it said where it people take more account account uh more ownership if it was like their idea and they saw it through to fruition.

C

So how can you um ask better questions to get them down down the path, um so just fear of of not having all the answers and then also when um andrew was kind of talking about like the next step in the next step, it reminded me of of iteration, and if you don't have the answers, then pause and and kind of like okay. What piece? What iterative step did you take forward in this one conversation so have another one, like the small iterative approaches that you can take to get to to the bigger picture.

D

F

um I'm also an individual contributor at the minute, but I had team members before and what I have seen in the past is when it comes to fear that either people don't don't have enough trust in themselves or they think the company doesn't have, and that's something I'm well. I already have a sense, but I'm curious to learn um more details, how that is at gitlab, because at the minute I have the feeling, based on the fact that the climate is different here.

F

People might be more encouraged to speak up in case. They want to do some additional carrier, steps or whatsoever, but I have that seen quite often in the past that they have the feeling the company won't give them the chance anyhow. So they maybe won't raise that question and I think, um from a manager perspective.

F

If you have someone in the team who would be capable of stepping up yeah, you again then, should work on giving them this trust that the trust is there and that they they the company, would support them with, with stepping up.

D

A great point serena, thank you.

E

I think the psychological safety piece cannot be understated because, as as nervous as we might be, to have conversations with our team members there's anxiety for them too, that we're reaching for that next rung. If they think that they've overreached or something, then they can get really emotional and be like. You know what maybe I'm not and then that's when we have an attrition risk.

A

Awesome well, we are five minutes overtime. Thank you so much for your questions and everyone chiming in that was really awesome, um but that's all we have to for today. So I'll go ahead and in the call thanks everyone for joining.

I

I

H