►
Description
Darren Murph wrote the book on remote work, literally. He's been one of the leading voices in remote and distributed work for years, and his open-source collaboration and sharing were one of the bright spots of 2020 as many companies navigated their shift to distributed work at scale.
In this interactive discussion, Darren and Lars will discuss aspects of remote work explored in Redefining HR including the shift to remote work including hybrid, fully distributed, best practices, and more.
A
Hey,
what's
up,
everybody
welcome
to
the
redefining
hr
fireside
chat
series?
This
is
event
number
two
and
I'm
thrilled
to
be
joined
by
my
friend,
darren
murph.
Darren
is
darren's
a
lot
of
things
but
darren's
the
head
of
remote
for
git
lab,
probably
one
of
the
most
in-demand
people
in
all
of
the
people's
space
over
the
last
year.
He's
an
author
he's
a
dad
he's
a
journalist
he's
got
world
records.
There's
got
a
lot
going
on,
so
I'm
really
excited
to
jump
into
this
conversation
with
him.
A
A
All
of
the
the
things
that
are
all
2020,
you
know
were
happening,
and
so
I
was
able
to
account
for
those
in
the
book,
but
one
of
the
things
that
was
really
important
for
me
to
cover
in
the
book
was
this
transition
to
remote
and
distributed
work,
and
so
you
know,
darren
was
gracious
enough
to
come
on
the
redefining
hr.
Podcast
have
a
conversation
around
all
things
remote
distributed.
A
We've
stayed
in
touch
since
I'm
a
huge
fan
of
not
just
his
work,
but
really
his
his
approach
and
his
mindset,
particularly
as
it
relates
to
working
out
loud
and
open
source
practices.
I
think,
if
you're
watching
this
chances
are
you've,
probably
downloaded
some
of
gitlab's
distributed
work,
resources
and
tools
to
help
guide
your
own
organization
through
you
know
the
shift
to
remote
distributed
hybrid.
All
of
that,
so
we've
got
a
lot
to
cover.
A
As
a
reminder,
this
is
an
interactive
session,
so
I
have
lots
of
questions
for
darren,
I'm
not
going
to
hog
him.
I
want
to
give
you
all
the
opportunity
to
ask
questions,
so
I'm
going
to
open
up
with
a
few
questions
and
then
I'm
going
to
be
when
I
kind
of,
if
you
wouldn't
mind,
because
it's
hard
to
talk
and
keep
my
eyes
on
a
chat
stream
at
the
same
time.
A
So
I
will
tee
up
we're
ready
to
make
it
interactive
with
questions
and
then,
if
you
have
questions
for
darren,
just
add
them
to
the
chat
window
then,
and
then
that
way,
I
can
be
sure
that
I
catch
them
and
we'll
cover
as
many
as
we
can
in
the
hour
we
have
together
so
darren.
I
would
shut
up
man.
How
are
you,
how
is
your
world,
like,
I
said,
like
you,
since
last
year,
you've
been
the
most
in
demand
person
in
hr?
A
B
B
Quite
wild,
I
think
everyone's
world
has
been
a
bit
wild,
but
being
in
a
space
where
I'm
essentially
pioneering
and
defining
the
head
of
remote
role.
The
concept
of
a
dedicated
intentional
leader
within
a
remote
organization
is
fascinating.
History
is
being
written
under
my
feet
and
it
is
quite
the
privilege
to
have
the
opportunity
and
the
platform
to
be
a
part
of
how
that
history
is
written.
A
Yeah
and
so
let's,
let's
kind
of
dig
right
in
you
know:
last
year
we
we
had.
If
you
look
at
the
evolution
of
of
remote
and
distributed
work,
you
know,
I
think
it
was.
Obviously
it
was
happening
before
2020..
It
was
happening
in
pockets.
You
had
some
companies
that
were
entirely
distributed
from
the
start.
You
had
others
that
had
more
of
a
hybrid
model,
2020
came
along
and
crushed.
All
of
us
pushed
everybody
into
for
those
of
us
who
had
employees
so
the
ability
to
work
remote,
an
entirely
remote
model.
A
B
B
You
just
look
at
technology,
it
moved
from
on
premise
into
the
cloud
and
it
took
us
a
while
to
wrap
our
heads
around
that.
Essentially
people
operations
and
organizational
design
is
now
shifting
from
on-premise
into
the
cloud.
So
what
does
organizational
design
look
like
when
people
are
effectively
in
the
cloud?
And
it's
a
deep?
It's
a
deep
question
and
it's
as
much
about
psychology
as
it
is
the
tools
that
make
it
possible
yeah.
A
And
so
let's
talk
about
a
little
bit
because
you're
right,
I
think
in
in
2020,
you
know
we
all
shifted
to
remote
at
scale.
You
know
we
flirted
with
the
idea
of
return
to
work
strategies.
You
know
blissfully
naively,
you
know
in
q3
that
we
realized
that
wasn't
gonna
happen,
and
you
know
now
here
we
are
for
many
of
us
coming
up
on
the
one-year
anniversary
of
this
shift,
and
you
know
we
still
don't
know
what
what
if
and
how
office
life
will
look
like.
A
So
what
do
you
when
you,
when
you
think
about
where
most
companies
are
right
now,
where
they're
realizing
that
this
is
not
a
a
short-term
phenomenon?
And
it's
still,
you
know
lots
of
signs
and
hope
around
vaccines
and
things
like
that,
but
we
still
don't
know
when
we're
going
to
get
back
into
an
office
and
who
is
going
to
be
back
in
an
office.
B
What's
good
about
it,
what's
bad
about
it,
and
we've
made
this
available
free
of
charge
and
open
sourced
it
so
that
people
leaders
around
the
world
can
get
some
insights
to
make
decisions
on
one
of
the
core
things
that
people
leaders
need
to
understand
is
that
the
global
conversation
about
when
do
we
return
to
the
office
is
actually
the
wrong
one.
This
is
not
the
end
of
the
office.
It's
the
end
of
the
office
mentality
at
its
core.
B
What
we're
walking
into
is
a
much
more
democratized
and
inclusive
and
flexible
way
of
working,
and
the
power
has
massively
shifted
to
the
people
away
from
the
typical
epicenters
of
power
at
the
top
of
corporations.
So
what
I'm
encouraging
people
leaders
is
to
focus
on
retooling
all
of
your
practices
to
be
remote
first.
This
is
the
key
challenge
if
you
retool
your
meetings
and
your
asynchronous
workflows,
and
even
your
culture
to
work
when
no
one
is
in
the
office.
B
B
So
understanding
that
and
taking
a
look
at
every
single
practice
and
retooling
it
to
be
remote
first
is
the
key
challenge.
The
office
is,
in
large
part,
a
distraction,
it's
really
about
the
workflows,
and
if
you
make
those
work
anywhere,
then
they
also
work
in
the
office.
If
you
choose
to
show
back
up
there.
A
Yeah,
I
mean
that's
a
great
point
and
I
think
it's
something
that
you
know
for
most
hr
practitioners
right
when,
when
coveted
hit,
we
all
moved
to
remote.
We
essentially
ported
all
of
our
you
know
organizational
operating
systems
and
rhythms
to
just
doing
it
remotely
they
weren't
designed
for
remote.
They
were
designed
for
co-location
and
we
were
just
you
know:
macgyvering
them
to
fit
in
an
environment
where
we
weren't
in
an
office.
Now
that
we
know
that
this
isn't
a
short-term
phenomena.
I
think
it's
it's.
Companies
are
starting
to
now
think
about.
A
You
know
more
thoughtfully
around
how
they
can
re-engineer
that,
and
I
think
you
know
you
raised
a
really
good
point
around
make
remote
first
your
default,
because
then
it's
the
same
playing
field
for
all
organizations,
and
so
you
know
in
doing
that
what
are
some
of
the
key
components
or
things
that
need
to
be
changed.
That
were,
you
know,
maybe
maybe
dogmatic
views
in
co-location
that
really
have
to
be
re
re-engineered
to
to
truly
be
remote.
First
like
are
there?
A
B
More
directly
answer
that
so,
first
of
all,
I
want
to
talk
about
what
not
to
do
so.
Many
people
are
asking
themselves
right
now.
What
do
we
do?
What
do
we
add
to
an
already
chaotic
environment,
to
make
things
better
like
hold
on
just
say
that
out
loud
we
don't
really
need
another
thing
to
add.
On
top
of
all
we're
doing
so
I
prefer
the
subtractive
approach
to
success.
B
What
can
we
take
away
to
more
easily
pave
the
way
for
success
being
more
seamless
and
for
those
watching
live?
I
will
chat
a
git
lab
handbook
page
on
what
not
to
do
in
this
transition.
So
to
give
you
some
perspective
here,
many
organizations
are
what
are
in
what
I
call
phase
one
of
remote
adaptation.
It's
the
shift
and
lift
the
skeuomorphic
approach.
They've
shifted
out
of
the
office
rapidly
into
a
virtual
world,
but
they
are
copy
and
pasting
everything
so
all
of
the
meetings
they
used
to
have,
they
simply
have
them
in
zoom.
B
Now
they
never
actually
pause.
To
think
is
this
recurring
meeting
still
useful?
Should
we
change
our
meeting
hygiene?
Is
anyone
documenting
this?
Nothing
actually
changed
about
the
practice,
only
the
playing
field
in
which
it
was
happening
when
you
get
to
a
point
where
you
are
intentional
about
asynchronous
communication
moving
work
forward
without
the
need
for
two
people
or
more
to
be
online
at
the
exact
same
time.
B
B
A
You
know
one
of
the
things
I'm
I'm
curious
to
get
your
perspective
on,
like
I
know,
you
know,
for
git
lab
one
of
the
keys
to
your
success
in
building
and
scaling
a
fully
distributed.
Work
has
been
documentation.
You
know,
like
you,
said,
writing
things
down.
You
know
having
notes
on
everything
right
having
you
know,
guidance
for
any
employee
who
maybe
has
been
there
for
a
while,
or
somebody
just
joins
on
how
to
basically
do
pretty
much
anything
that
their
role
will
involve.
What
do
you
you
know
over
time?
B
B
Could
there
be
documentation
silos
where
something's
copied
over
here
and
a
fresher
copy
is
over
here,
we've
all
seen
the
episodes
of
the
office
where
it's
like
underscore
final
final.
Final
final:
we
don't
want
to
get
in
that
nightmare
number
one.
You
have
to
trust
that
you
have
a
single
source
of
truth
and
that
that
is
the
ultimate
that
is
the
ultimate
endpoint
on
is
something
relevant
or
new,
and
the
second
part
is
you
have
to
teach
people
to
self-service
and
search.
B
You
have
to
create
the
culture
where
people
will
not
default
to
tapping
someone
on
the
shoulder
to
get
information.
They
will
default
to
searching
and
finding
things
on
their
own
and
then
only
when
they
cannot
find
things.
Do
they
then
turn
to
a
human
who,
by
the
way,
needs
to
provide
the
answer
and
document
it
so
that
anyone
who
has
this
question
henceforth
won't
have
to
ask
a
person?
B
This
is
the
concept
of
paying
it
forward
at
gitlab,
we
actually
tried
to
answer
everything
with
a
link,
and
I
know
a
lot
of
people
are
saying
this
is
utopian.
It's
not
realistic
for
for
my
company,
but
but
not
so
fast.
I've
worked
with
a
company
that
had
no
company
handbook
a
year
ago
and
were
actively
anti-remote
in
their
hiring
and
in
2021
they
made
built-ins
list
of
best
remote
remote
first
places
to
work,
and
they
have
a
multi-hundred
page
handbook,
that's
growing.
B
By
the
day,
they
literally
started
with
a
blinking
cursor
less
than
a
year
ago,
and
now
they
have
hundreds
of
pages,
it
started
somewhere
and
they
continued
to
iterate
and
continue
to
iterate.
It
is
possible.
This
is
a
six
or
seven
thousand
person
global
operation,
so
I've
seen
it
happen,
and
it
gives
me
faith
that
companies
that
actually
invest
in
it
and
make
it
a
priority
can
see
the
same
results.
A
Let's
kind
of
I
could
pick
back
from
that
on
on
technology
now,
you
obviously
you've
been
working
and
you've
been
a
leading
champion
of
remote
distributed
work
for
years
and
years,
you've
seen
lots
of
technology.
You've
seen
technology
come
and
go
like
what
is
your
optimal
distributed?
Work
tech
stack
that
that
that
you
think
people
should
look
into
as
they're
as
they're,
making
more
kind
of
permanent
shifts
to
at
the
very
minimum
hybrid
work,
if
not
fully
distributed
work.
B
I
put
together
this
like
starter
guide,
tech
stack
so
I'll
dive
into
that
first,
and
then
I
want
to
touch
on
another
point
that
layers
on
top
of
this
get
kona
is
an
amazing
tool
for
understanding,
eq
and
remote
teams.
It
essentially
helps
build
a
readme
or
an
operating
manual
for
each
employee
in
your
organization,
so
that,
if
they
ping
someone
else
on
slack,
there's
this
nice
drop
down
on.
Are
you
red,
yellow,
green
today?
How
many
meetings
have
you
already
been
on
today?
Are
you
out
with
family?
B
Is
today
really
not
a
great
day
for
something?
That's
not
urgent,
just
useful
technology
to
leverage
a
peek
into?
How
is
this
person
doing
today?
I've
been
advising
this
company
for
a
while,
and
I'm
really
encouraged
by
how
they're
using
technology
to
make
work
more
human,
and
I
think
that's
really
awesome.
Yak-
is
a
really
fun
tool
for
asynchronous
voice.
Chats
it's
a
great
way
to
get
away
from
meetings
loom
is
essentially
the
video
version
of
that
loom
is
an
awesome
tool
for
just
sharing
bite-sized
clips
of
video.
B
Instead
of
asking
people
to
commit
30
minutes
of
their
time.
You
just
do
a
five
minute:
video
share
it
publicly
and
then
people
can
respond
through
that
at
gitlab
we're
blessed
to
use
git
lab
for
all
of
our
project
collaboration.
So
if
you
have
access
to
gitlab,
I
would
definitely
encourage
you
to
use
that
we
use
it
beyond
software
engineering.
B
It
is
a
tool
for
software
engineering,
but
we
use
it
for
all
of
our
transparent
collaboration
across
the
entire
company
and
if
you
want
to
lean
into
a
tool
to
start
your
handbook,
almanac
is
a
great
place
for
that.
The
crucial
element
of
almanac
when
you're
looking
across
the
sea
of
handbook
tools,
is
that
it
supports
merge,
request
functionality.
So
it
enables
everyone
in
your
organization
to
contribute
a
change
to
the
handbook
and
then
the
ultimate
maintainer
or
directly
responsible
individual
is
able
to
look
at
that
edit.
B
That
change
that
and
then
merge
it
into
reality.
So
it
kind
of
calms
the
chaos
on
how
people
are
contributing.
So
that's
the
tooling
part
of
it,
but
here's
the
culture
part
of
it.
You
may
be
using
some
tools
right
now
that
will
work.
You
just
have
to
use
them
in
a
different.
More
innovative
way
so
case
in
point
is
gitlab
uses
slack
a
lot
of
teams
around
the
world
either
use
microsoft
teams
or
slack,
but
we
use
it
in
a.
B
Way,
we
expire
all
of
our
slack
messages
after
90
days,
so
why
do
we
do
that?
Because
we
want
it
to
serve
as
a
forcing
function
to
not
do
work
in
slack,
we
want
work
to
happen
in
gitlab,
which
is
a
much
more
transparent
place
to
work.
So
if
you
delete
everyone's
work
after
90
days,
it
only
takes
one
or
two
oopsies
to
take
the
default
and
do
work
in
gitlab,
but
there's
a
secondary
benefit
here
too,
which
is
slack.
A
B
Bane
of
many's
mental
health
issues,
but
if
you
really
only
use
it
for
informal
communication,
parenting
channels
or
hiking
or
cooking
or
fitness
or
music
making,
it's
a
it's
a
much
better
place
to
hang
out,
because
you
know
the
work
is
happening
over
here,
so
we
can
use
slack
to
build
relationships
and
build
rapport
and
that's
a
much
better
way
to
use
it.
So,
instead
of
using
a
new
chat
tool,
just
use
the
existing
one
in
a
new
way.
Google
docs
is
another
great
example.
B
We
attach
a
google
doc
to
all
of
our
work
related
meetings
so
that
it
forces
us
to
have
temporal
documentation
and,
if
you're,
trying
to
think
what
happened
in
that
one
meeting,
you
just
search
your
calendar
for
the
meeting
name.
You
find
that
meeting
from
two
years
ago
and
voila
the
google
doc
is
attached
to
it.
So
simple
things
using
simple
tools
in
new
ways
to
encourage
transparency.
A
Yeah,
those
are
some
great
tips
and
for
those
of
you
that
are
watching
the
recorded
version
of
this
video,
I
will
include
links
to
everything
we're
talking
about
in
the
show,
description
and
notes,
so
you
can
get
access
to
those,
but
but
great
tips
and
and
some
tools
that
were
not
on
my
radar.
So
thanks
for
teaching
me
something
new,
as
as
you
always
do
so,
let's
I
want
to
open
up
some
questions
from
the
audience
right
now
and
make
this
a
little
interactive.
A
A
I
want
to
open
with
one
that
was
sent
in
from
ciara
lakani
she's,
the
chief
people
officer
at
dashlane,
and
her
question
was:
is
there
anything
that
you're
doing
differently
kind
of
now
in
in
you
know
not
post
pandemic
yet
but
kind
of
mid-pandemic
than
you
were
pre-pandemic
as
it
relates
to
a
remote
work?
I
should
say.
B
B
We're
calling
family
and
friends
day
and
so
we're
taking
a
friday
off
every
single
month,
but
not
just
taking
it
off.
We
built
a
corresponding
slack
channel
family
and
friends
day
where
we
encourage
people
to
share
videos
and
photos
and
stories
of
doing
anything,
not
work.
Maybe
we
can't
go
on
elaborate
trips,
but
you
can
hang
out
on
your
front.
B
We're
going
to
have
a
lot
to
celebrate
on
the
other
side
of
that
and
I'll
say
that
we've
just
become
a
lot
more.
We
recognize
more
that
empathy
matters
now
more
than
ever
at
gitlab.
We
have
no
offices,
so
we
rely
really
heavily
on
these
key
moments
throughout
the
year
for
in-person
engagements,
look
we're
we're
humans,
we're
communal,
relational
beings
in
person
matters
a
lot,
so
our
usual
series
of
user
events
around
the
world,
our
usual
company
gathering,
where
we
get
every
employee
together
in
one
spot
for
a
week
of
bonding.
B
We
couldn't
do
any
of
that
in
2020,
and
you
see
the
social
reservoirs
start
to
dip
even
for
people
that
love
remote
work,
we
still
love
seeing
each
other.
So
we
are
trying
to
make
ious
on
morgan
when
we're
going
to
get
back
together
again
and
there's
a
lot
of
just
hang
on
and
get
through
it
together.
That
has
to
happen
but
giving
voice
to
it
and
recognizing
that
goes
a
long
way.
A
B
I
think
the
potential
here
is
huge.
The
folks
at
remote.com
had
this
awesome
pilot
week
where
they
gave
everyone
a
quest
headset,
and
they
did
this
experimentation
of
collaborating
and
hanging
out
and
building
culture
with
ar
and
vr
integrated
into
the
week,
and,
I
would
say,
check
out
their
website.
They
have.
This
awesome
recap
on
what
they
learned
in
that
I
don't
think
it
will
be
the
last.
B
B
Some
people
are
going
to
love
remote
work
specifically
because
they
don't
want
the
gimmicks.
Remote
word
gives
your
introverts
an
amazing
opportunity
to
contribute,
in
the
proverbial
same
size,
font
as
the
usual
loudest
voices
in
the
room.
So
if
you
are
a
natural
extrovert,
just
put
that
in
check,
not
everyone
wants
a
calendar
full
of
virtual
happy
hours
at
get
lab.
We
have
a
sub
value
that
allows
us
to
shift
our
working
hours
for
a
cause
and
I've
encouraged
some
people
leaders
who
are
growing
frustrated
with
one
virtual
happy
hour
after
another.
B
A
A
A
I
wasn't
quite
sure
how
it
would
feel
as
a
conference,
but
it
actually
it
felt
way
more
familiar
as
somebody
who
goes
to
a
lot
of
conferences
than
I
expected
it
would
right
like
you're
there,
you're
you're,
you
know
virtually
walking
around
you're
talking
to
people.
It
was.
It
was
a
pretty
interesting
experience.
Obviously
you
know
there's
a
hardware
barrier
to
entry
to
do
that
at
scale,
but
I'm
also
pretty
bullish
on
the
ability
to
create
opportunities
to
bring
people
together
in
that
kind
of
immersive
environment.
So
it'll
be
interesting.
A
I
think
it's
very
much
a
watch
this
space
sector
as
it
continues
to
grow,
getting
a
few
more
questions
from
the
attendees
here.
This
next
one
is
from
diana
she's
asking
she's
curious
about
how
gitlab
approaches,
employees
who
may
struggle
working
from
home
during
covent
in
particular,
either
with
you
know,
caregiving
small
living
spaces,
children,
etc.
B
Something
upfront
what
we
are
dealing
with
right
now
is
not
remote
work,
yeah
forced
into
work
from
home.
I
love,
listen.
I
love
remote
work.
Okay,
I've
been
a
remote
worker
for
over
15
years,
I'm
an
advocate
for
it
I'm
a
champion
for
it,
but
I
also
I'm
a
delta
million
miler.
I
fly
over
100
000
miles
a
year
and
I
have
been
forced
to
work
from
home.
B
For
the
past
year,
I've
been
unable
to
work
remotely
for
the
for
the
past
year
and
there's
a
big
difference
yeah,
especially
for
people
who
optimized
their
home
or
living
space,
not
for
being
there
24
hours
a
day.
They
assumed
that
they
would
be
able
to
go,
do
the
bulk
of
their
day
and
their
work
at
a
different
space.
So
if
you're
forced
back
into
that,
maybe
with
some
part
broadband
or
now
you
have
a
spouse
at
home
or
multiple
kids.
B
It
is
not
an
ideal
workspace
and
in
gitlab
we
actually
recognize
and
acknowledge
that
not
everyone
wants
to
work
from
home.
Maybe
you
do
on
some
days,
but
not
on
other
days,
and
so
we
have
a
policy
that
we
will
allow
people
to
submit
expense
reports
and
we
will
reimburse
for
external
co-working
spaces
or
places
like
cody
or
switch
yards,
and
we
have
about
one
in
five
get
lab
employees
that
take
us
up
on
that
on
any
given
day
during
a
month.
But
during
covid
that's
a
lot
more
difficult.
B
A
lot
of
our
people
that
used
to
work
that
way
have
been
forced
back
into
their
homes
and
they
weren't
really
looking
forward
to
that.
So
how
do
we
support
them?
Family
and
friends.
Day
was
a
big
one.
We've
added
some
additional
resources
in
our
mental
health
handbook
page
which
I've
linked
there
as
well,
and
we've
just
been
very
open
and
transparent
about
redistributing
work.
A
Yeah-
and
I
think
you
you
raised
a
really
important
point
on
what
this
is
and
that
this
isn't
really
remote
work.
I
mean
we
were.
We
were
shoved
into
our
homes
with
no
advanced
warning
for
the
most
part,
in
many
cases
where
you
know
we're,
navigating
whatever
size
living
accommodations
we
have
for,
depending
on
where
you
live
in
the
world,
your
kids
aren't
at
school,
they're
home
you're,
a
teacher
you're,
an
employee.
A
Perhaps
you
have
you
know
mental
health
or
other
health
issues
that
are
are
exacerbated
by
the
circumstances.
Maybe
you
have
elder
care
issues,
I
mean
the
this
is
as
sub-optimal
as
you
could
possibly
get
as
it
relates
to
not
working
at
office.
So
it'll
be
really
interesting
to
actually
see
how
this
is
optimized
when
we're
beyond
the
pandemic
and
it's
safe-
and
you
know
we're
kind
of
in
this.
A
This
next
chapter
of
work,
I'm
incredibly
excited
to
see
what
happens
then,
and
how
much
has
actually
changed
when
we're
able
to
design
the
spaces
around
us
for
us
to
be
able
to
do
our
best
work
without
all
of
the
distractions
that
we're
piling
on
top
of
you
know,
for
many
of
us
figuring
out
how
to
work
outside
of
an
office
for
the
first
time
so
yeah.
That's
that's
hugely
exciting.
A
Next
question
I
want
to
jump
into
is
from
lem
diaz,
the
head
of
people
at
upbound,
and
his
question
is
aside
from
regular
one-on-ones
with
managers
and
ensuring
alignment
through
strong
communication.
What
are
some
specific
and
tactical
ways
to
maximize
engagement
and
productivity
with
remote
employees.
B
You're
about
the
parallel
and
the
connection
between
transparency
and
work
and
belonging
in
culture,
and
all
of
this
ties
back
to
engagement.
If
you
give
people
a
single
place,
where
work
happens,
you
reduce
their
mental
load
on
them.
Having
to
think
where
do
I
have
to
go
to
understand
where
work
is
happening
across
the
organization?
B
That
is
step
number
one.
If
you
don't
have
a
tool,
a
centralized
heartbeat
of
where
work
happens.
Please
get
one
again.
We
use
gitlab,
there's
an
awesome,
app
called
friday.app.
I
know
some
teams
use
dropbox
spaces.
You
need
to
have
a
central
repository,
a
central
thoroughfare
where
all
of
your
work
is
and
what
we've
seen
is
that
if
you
set
people
up
so
that
work
is
transparent
and
they're
easily
able
to
see
what's
going
on
a
lot
of
this
becomes
a
self-fulfilling
prophecy,
it
kind
of
solves
itself.
B
People
want
to
engage
more
when
they're
able
to
see
more.
So
if
you
as
a
leader,
increase
the
access
to
information,
you
should
see
increased
contributions,
and
if
you
don't,
I
see
that
as
a
red
flag,
that
you
don't
have
a
culture
of
psychological
safety
where
you're
truly
encouraging
people
to
contribute
and
making
sure
that
those
contributions
are
respected
and-
and
they
don't
receive
any
backlash
for
that.
So
I
would
say
step
one
make
sure
the
tools
in
place
step
two
really
monitor.
B
I
was
recently
in
a
future
forum
conversation
with
brian
elliott
and
the
team
at
slack,
and
they
have
some
incredible
data
on
how
this
remote
transformation
is
impacting
all
levels
of
organizations
and
the
key
takeaway
was
middle
managers
are
getting
crushed
by
this,
because
you
have
individual
contributors
that
are
shouting
to
the
rooftop
of
all
the
things
they
need
to
do
their
work.
Well,
now
that
they're
at
home
and
then.
B
B
This
is
a
sea
change.
We
should
probably
invest
in
this
and
then
trying
to
manage
the
emotions
and
workflows
and
realities
of
their
direct
reports.
So
the
middle
managers
have
it
the
toughest
on
top
of
that,
many
of
them
have
never
been
taught
how
to
be
a
great
remote
manager.
It's
a
hugely
different
task,
so
at
gitlab
we
have
an
amazing
learning
and
development
team
and
I've
actually
been
building
what
we're
calling
a
manager
challenge
and
we're
actually
building
curriculum
on
how
to
remotely
manage
the
cool.
B
Gitlab
you
can
take
get
lab
lnd,
that's
the
absolute
beauty
of
open
source
and
if
you
have
ideas
on
contributing
and
making
it
better,
we'd,
certainly
welcome
that.
One
other
thing
that
I'll
plug
here
is.
We
got
this
question
a
lot
early
on.
It
was
far
and
away
the
biggest
question,
so
we
ported
a
lot
of
our
best
knowledge
on
remote
team
management
to
a
platform
called
coursera,
and
so
you
can
take
a
course
there.
It's
split
out
over,
I
believe,
it's
five
weeks,
it's
free
to
take.
There's
an
optional
paid
certificate
at
the.
A
B
B
Dm
me
on
twitter,
the
weekend
after
this
course
went,
live
on
coursera
and
they
said
I
actually
binged
the
entire
thing
over
the
weekend
and
I
thought
well
if
we
can
make
something
compelling
enough
that
people
want
to
binge
school,
hopefully
we're
doing
something
right,
take
heart.
The
resources
are
out
there.
A
Yeah
yeah
and,
like
I
said
I
will
include
the
links
to
to
all
the
resources
darren's
referencing
in
the
show
notes
for
those
of
you
that
are
watching
after
the
live
event.
Next
question:
I
want
to
jump
to
comes
from
daniel.
The
question
is:
how
do
you
manage
crisis
among
parents?
More
specifically,
mothers
who
are
definitely
have
more
of
the
workload
other
than
kind
of
non-parent
workers.
A
B
Yes,
at
gitlab,
we're
just
so
good
about
working,
transparently
and
being
having
a
place
of
psychological
safety
where
working
parents
can
can
raise
their
hands
or
caregivers
in
many
cases
can
raise
their
hand
and
say
this
is
no
longer
amenable
for
my
current
life
and
we
figure
out
a
way
to
make
it
work,
we're
cool
with
cutting
scope.
Sometimes
you
gotta
reduce
the
okr's
like,
instead
of
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
be
a
magician
and
still
hit
the
same
number.
Sometimes
the
numbers
have
to
change.
B
B
They
can't
take
your
money,
even
if
you
wanted
to
give
it
to
them.
So
it's
a
very
strange
and
interesting
place
right
now.
I
hope
we're
we're
one
day
closer
today
than
yesterday
on
being
on
the
other
side
of
that,
but
I
would
encourage
leaders
to
proactively
plan
for
a
post-pandemic
support
system
for
this
child
care
has
always
been
important
and
I
actually
appreciate
the
spotlight:
that's
been
placed
on
it
through
covid.
There
is
a
silver
lining
in
a
crisis,
and
I
do
think
that's
one
of
them.
A
Yeah
this
I
like
this
next
question.
This
is
from
chris
brown
and
berlin.
He
asked
how
does
you
know
as
head
of
remote?
How
does
your
role
and
scope
and
responsibilities
overlap
with
the
chief
people
officer
like
how
what
is
that
relationship
like
how
is
that
kind
of
coordinated?
How
are
the
responsibilities
split,
like
obviously
they're,
not
in
a
position
to
be
head
of
remote,
but
like?
How
do
you?
How
do
you
work
with,
I
guess
the
best
way
to
frame
that
is.
How
do
you
work
with
your
cpo.
A
B
Is
the
existing
remote
fluency
is
the
first
time
anyone
has
ever
worked
remote,
but
I
will
say
the
head
of
remote
is
the
most
cross-functional
role
in
the
entire
company,
because
the
one
reality
you'll
find
is
that,
even
though
your
departments
do
different
things,
finance
does
something
very
different
than
engineering.
The
common
thread
is
remote.
Both
of
them
now
need
perks
and
benefits
and
policies
and
documentation
that
work
well
in
a
remote
setting,
and
so
I
see
the
header
remote
as
additive
to
what
the
chief
people
officer
was
already
doing,
and.
B
What
are
the
things
that
they
might
not
be?
Thinking
of
that
you
take
the
inclusive
lens
the
remote
lens,
and
I
actually
would
encourage
you
to
think
about
the
the
emergence
of
the
chief
diversity
officer.
So
if
you
dial
back
long
enough,
there
were
early
conversations
on
you
know:
diversity.
It
matters
it's
growing,
it's
big!
Maybe
we
should
put
some
intentionality
around
this.
It's
too
big
to
just
put
it
as
a
line
item
on
the
chief
people
officer
like
hey,
handle,
diversity
and
inclusion.
Cpr
is
like
hold
on.
I
got
enough
going
on.
B
Maybe
we
should
put
intentionality
on
this.
I
see
this
role
following
a
very
similar
trajectory
where
companies
are
realizing.
It's
complementary.
We
have
more
to
consider
now
and
top
talent
will
start
asking
questions
about
flexibility
that
you
need.
Someone
who
understands
the
nuances
of
what
it
looks
like
to
really
advise
and
support
the
cpo,
as
well
as
the
ceo.
A
Cool
next
question:
here
I'm
going
rapid
fire
I
want
to
get.
I
want
to
get
as
many
of
these
in
as
we
can
so
so.
Pardon
the
you
know,
bam
bam
bam,
but
people
have
questions
for
you
darren.
The
next
question
comes
from
courtney.
Her
question
is:
do
you
have
a
listening
strategy
in
place
for
ensuring
equitable
outcomes
for
employees,
no
matter
their
location
or
work.
B
Arrangement
so
clear
on
what
success
looks
like
and
it
has
to
value
results,
not
inputs
for
companies
that
have
been
doing
praises
and
promotions
based
on
subjectivity.
This
is
a
massive
change,
but
what
you'll
find
is
that,
if
it
all
boils
down
to
metrics
actual
numbers
that
both
sides
perfectly
understand,
then
it
doesn't
matter
where
the
work
happens,
and
I
would
encourage
managers
who
are
managing
a
newly
remote
team
to
listen
carefully
to
feedback
from
direct
reports
who
are
in
a
remote
space
for
the
first
time.
B
If
they
are
telling
you
they
need
tools
or
documentation
or
context
or
understanding
to
do
their
job
well,
in
a
new
space
that
becomes
your
blueprint
to
the
remote
transformation,
so
managers
need
to
be
less
directors
of
people
and
more
unblockers
listeners
to
feedback.
Your
people
will
tell
you
what
you
need
to
do.
You
don't
have
to
just
guess
or
invent
new
policies
that
you
hope
work
in
a
remote
world.
A
Yeah
and
the
next
question
I
want
to
get
to
actually
is
another
from
len
diaz
and
he
asked
actually.
I
think
this
question
will
be
relevant
to
a
lot
of
viewers,
because,
particularly
is
you
know
some
of
the
the
startups
that
are
are
you
know
coming
together
and
being
founded
in
the
shadow
of
the
pandemic?
You
know
last
year,
maybe
year
before.
Certainly
this
year
and
beyond,
many
of
them
are
are
choosing
to
go
remote
or
distributed
from
the
get-go
like
gate
lab,
like
some
other
pioneers
that
have
come
before
them.
B
I
actually
think
there's
going
to
be
more
opportunity
than
anything
else.
It's
one
less
thing
to
worry
about.
Imagine
coming
out
of
yc
and
you're
like
we
can
spin
the
seed
round
on
people
tools
and
technology.
We
don't
have
to
worry
about
office
space.
It's
like
one,
less
huge
thing
you
have
to
worry
about
and
it
extends
your
runway
in
a
massive
way.
But
the
one
thing
you
do
need
to
think
about
early
is
documentation.
B
But
if
you
don't
do
it
at
10,
it's
harder
at
100,
harder
at
500,
and
what
you'll
find
is
that
documentation
works
much
like
compound
interest.
If
you
invest
in
something
10
years
ago,
there's
a
lot
of
compounding
interest
that
happens
that
you
can't
possibly
re-engineer
10
years
down.
The
road
documentation
works
the
same
way
so
before
you
need
it
before.
It's
obvious
that
you
need
it,
make
sure
that
you
invest
in
it
yeah.
I.
A
Mean
look,
there's
a
lot
of
analogies
between
that
and
people
teams.
Frankly,
I
think
if
you
look
at
startups
five
years
ago,
10
years
ago,
often
they
would
just
scale
and
grow
with
what
they
had
didn't,
really
think
about
hr
didn't
really
think
about
people
operations.
You
know
got
to
triple
digit
employees
got
to
500
employees
and
they're.
A
So
they
need
to
hire
an
experienced
cpo
to
come
in
rip
all
that
stuff
out
which
is
hugely
disruptive
to
the
business
and
then
kind
of
re-engineer.
It's
expensive,
it's
ugly,
it's
frustrating
for
employees,
so
you're
seeing
more
companies
now
because
of
some
of
those
lessons
and
lumps
that
were
earned,
then
start
to
think
about.
You
know
bringing
on
a
head
of
people
or
cpo
earlier,
build
putting
the
tools
in
place,
probably
before
you
necessarily
need
them,
because
you
know
that
you'll
have
that
foundation
to
grow
on
that
compound
interest.
A
You
know
analogy
certainly
fits
so
that
that
definitely
makes
a
lot
of
sense.
Next
question
I
want
to
jump
into
comes
from
kendra
and
kendra
asks.
How
is
measuring
performance
and
goals
changed
with
remote
work?
So
how
do
you
keep
your
individual
contributors
managers
and
executives
accountable,
and
I
know
this
doesn't
apply
to
you
because
gitlab
obviously
had
been
that
way,
but
as
you
work
with
other
companies
that
are
making
that
shift.
What's
your
perspective
on
that.
B
You
had
deeper
problems
to
begin
with,
and
I
know
this
is
boiling
it
all
the
way
down,
but
it
really
just
comes
back
to
tell
the
person
what
success
looks
like
if
you
as
a
manager,
can't
answer
that
they
definitely
can't
do
it.
So
for
a
lot
of
companies
they're
having
to
go
back
to
the
drawing
board
and
ask
themselves
what
success
looks
like-
and
I
understand
that's
a
very
oversimplified
answer,
but
it
starts
there
and
then
the
second
step
is
listen
to
your
people.
B
A
You
know,
none
of
us
are
saying
offices
are
dead
forever,
but
many
companies
are
reducing
their
footprint
and
hopefully
that
is
freeing
up
some
dollars
for
them
to
be
more
thoughtful
around
how
they're
you
know,
as
darren
said
kind
of
supporting
some
of
these
structures
and
tools
and
technologies
that
allow
for
optimal
work
in
the
way
that
we're
structuring
things
now
again,
whether
it's
fully
distributed,
whether
it's
hybrid,
whatever
it
might
be
kind
of
now
and
into
the
near
future.
I
really
like
this
next
question
from
rachel.
A
B
The
the
answer
should
be.
What
I
wish
people
would
ask
me
is:
what
can
I
do
with
my
life
if
it
wasn't
completely
dictated
by
a
commute
like
just
just
stop
and
think
about
that?
So
for
us,
my
wife
and
I
just
over
two
years
ago,
we
adopted
a
newborn
at
birth.
It's
an
extraordinary
way
to
grow
your
family.
It's
an
open
adoption,
it's
beautiful!
It's
the
most
amazing
thing.
B
A
You
know
I
like
that
you
took
that
question
in
that
direction.
I
think,
for
you
know,
for
so
many
of
us
whether
we
live
in
the
the
suburbs
of
the
cities.
You
know
commuting
is
a
big
part
of
our
normal,
day-to-day
right,
pre-covered
day-to-day
and
that's
just
time
completely
lost,
and
when
you
unlock
that
time
you
know
and
are
are
able
to
then
think
wow.
A
A
Why
not
give
our
employees
more
space
to
find
that
to
discover
that
to
lean
into
that
and
so
yeah
that
that
to
me,
I
I
think
that
there
will
be
some
lasting
shifts
and
and
mentality
and
values
and
and
needs
for
employees
as
we
move
beyond
this,
and-
and
I
think
that
certainly
is
one
there's
just
people
who,
based
on
what
they've
experienced
over
the
last
year,
will
never
go
back
to
an
office
five
days
a
week.
They
just
won't
and
they
won't
have
to
and
so
for
organizations.
A
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
you
know
people
leaders
watching
this.
If
you
have
a
ceo
who's,
you
know
hot
to
trot
to
get
everybody
back
in
an
office.
You
know
find
some
of
these
stories
and
examples
you
can
bring
to
them
of
what
employees
really
want
and
how
some
of
their
drivers
are
shifting,
because
it's
going
to
be
really
difficult
for
those
kinds
of
organizations
to
attract
great
talent,
because
they
just
you
know
they
will
have
lots
of
other
blue
chip
offers
at
other
companies.
That
won't
require
that.
So
why
would
they
do
that?
B
And
the
next
layer
of
that
is
your
shareholders
are
going
to
start
asking
business
continuity
plans
if
you
fundamentally
refuse
to
re-architect
your
business
you're,
not
in
a
great
position
to
weather
the
next
crisis.
So
at
some
point
it
becomes
a
business
continuity
decision
where
you
need
to
set
up
remote
first
practices
to
make
sure
that
your
business
can
continue
to
function.
Well,
if
everyone
is
gone
from
the
office
down
the
road.
A
Yeah-
and
I
mean
I
think
we
have
to
learn
from
this-
like
it's,
not
if
it's
when
right
it's
when
the
next
thing
happens,
that
is
a
massive
disruption
to
all
that
we
considered
norms.
Next
question
actually
comes
from
kate
and
it's
a
question.
I
actually
hear
a
lot,
so
I'm
curious
to
get
your
thoughts
on
here.
What
is
ideal?
Onboarding
look
like
for
remote
employees.
What
are
some,
what
are
some
things
that
organizations
and
hr
people
team?
A
B
Universally
applicable
as
possible
and
uniform
as
possible
at
get
lab.
I
think
we
have
the
world's
most
heavily
documented
onboarding
process.
We
onboard
people
in
gitlab
the
tool,
so
they
have
no
choice
but
to
get
to
know
the
get
lab
product
and
learn
it.
They
can't
onboard
themselves
without
it.
That's
critical
and
in
fact,
most
of
our
onboarding,
you
can
see
it
before
you
even
apply
to
the
company,
we're
very
transparent.
You
can
see
the
templates
that
we
go
through
and
that
helps
us
purify
our
recruiting
pipeline.
B
If
people
know
what
they're
getting
into
you
have
a
better
chance
of
someone
opting
into
your
way
of
working
and
showing
up
because
they're
very
passionate
about
the
way
that
you
do
things,
the
one
thing
I
would
say
right
now
you
could
do.
I
know
it's
daunting
to
think
about
documenting
your
whole
onboarding
process,
but
it
is
something
that
you
should
move
towards,
but
the
concept
of
an
onboarding
buddy
is
a
simple
thing
that
any
company
could
do
right
now.
B
Whenever
someone
new
joins,
get
lab
they're
assigned
an
onboarding
buddy
and
this
person
is
their
one-on-one
contact.
You
can
ask
this
person
as
many
questions
as
you
want,
and
instead
of
wandering
the
virtual
halls,
hoping
you
bump
into
the
right
people,
the
onboarding
budding
is
there
to
set
up
key
stakeholder
meetings
in
your
first
30-60
days
to
make
sure
that
you're
spending
time
with
the
people
that
will
accelerate
and
move
your
career
forward
at
the
company.
A
B
Long
office
leases
or
had
invested
already
in
an
office
read
of
redesign.
So
the
question
is:
what
changes
do
you
think
will
need
to
happen
externally
to
allow
companies
to
have
a
virtual
first
approach?
So
this
is
an
interesting
one.
The
concept
of
sunk
cost
the
concept
of
we've.
We've
got
a
20
year
lease
on
this
building.
B
What
I
would
encourage
companies
that
are
in
this
situation
to
do
is
think
about
what
are
the
corporate
sustainability
projects
you've
always
dreamed
of
doing,
but
you
can't
get
the
people
out
of
the
office
so
that
you
can
actually
do
it.
So
if
you
have
a
hundred
thousand
square
feet
of
now
unnecessary
office
space
open
up
an
internship
center
for
underserved
youth
in
the
community,
there
are
people
within
your
shot
of
your
office
buildings
that
undoubtedly
need
a
safe
place
to
learn.
B
B
B
So
I
would
say
the
short
answer
here
is
look
through
the
lens
of
of
opportunity
and
not
scarcity,
and
if
you're
working
with
a
leadership
team
that
really
struggles
to
grok
that
this
is
going
to
be
a
time
of
great
change,
and
I
wouldn't
expect
everyone
to
be
a
hundred
percent
happy
at
their
existing
org.
I
do
think
there
will
be
some
short-term
attrition
and
to
do
this.
B
A
Well,
darren
we're
almost
in
time.
I
want
to
leave
you
with
one
last
question
for
people
leaders
who
are
watching
this
and
they're
working
with
their
executive
teams
currently
to
think
through
what
their
structure
will
be
coming
out
of
the
pandemic,
whether
it's
you
know,
co-located
hybrid,
fully
distributed.
B
Look,
we
are
tracking
companies
that
are
going
through
this
change,
and
many
of
them
are
building
in
public
they're,
sharing
their
their
failures,
they're
sharing
their
learnings.
This
is
the
ultimate
time
to
do
that
or
be
their
counsels
that
are
that
are
being
formed.
So
look
look
to
your
peers
and
ask
questions
and
don't
assume
that
you
or
anyone
else
has
all
of
the
answers
right
now.
We
are
very
much
figuring
this
out
in
real
time,
but
what.
A
A
Well,
darren
thanks!
So
much
for
all
of
you
live
viewers
thanks
for
spending
an
hour
with
us,
really
appreciate
it.
Darren
thanks
for
making
time
for
this
and
again
huge
thanks
as
well
for
all
your
contributions
to
the
redefining
hr
book
and
community,
but
really,
more
importantly,
your
open
source
collaboration
and
sharing
with
the
industry
as
a
whole,
we're
all
better
for
it,
and
I
just
want
to
thank
you
on
behalf
of
all
of
my
hr
peers
at
brethren,
who,
I
know,
have
benefited
from
your
generosity.
So
thanks
so
much.