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From YouTube: The Future of the Workplace & Mental Health
Description
Listen to Alyson Watson (CEO at Modern Health) and Darren Murph (Head of Remote at GitLab) discuss the future of the workplace and mental health.
Questions discussed:
1. As a leader, where does creating a psychologically safe atmosphere start, and what are the responsibilities of leadership to support it?
2. Proximity bias is new for many leaders who have only led in-person. How do we avoid this so it doesn't create anxiety within teams?
3. How does GitLab normalize mental health in the workplace, and what can other organizations take from that?
4. I've heard you share that inclusion isn't just about culture, it's also about workflows and how you approach meetings. Could you share details on that?
5. GitLab applies a "Manager of One" principle to prioritizing rest and taking time off. How should those who aren't familiar with this concept begin to embrace it?
6. I've heard you talk about the concept of a "non-linear workday." How does this approach benefit wellbeing and mental health?
7. Give us a few tips on normalizing boundary setting.
8. Peek into the future and share how you think mental health will play a role in tomorrow's workplace.
A
A
I'm
definitely
following
euro.
I
have
to
skip
a
few
games,
but
england
won
yesterday
where
I
spent
three
years
of
my
life.
So
I'm
excited
for
a
lot
of
my
friends
in
england.
Sad
for
german
friends,
though
a
lot,
but
everyone
who
is
joining
feel
free
to
drop
where
you're
joining
from
in
the
chat
as
well.
C
B
Our
local
broadcaster
here
for
covering
all
of
the
euro
games
it
makes
it
easy
to
follow
along.
It
almost
feels
like
a
world
cup,
but
for
europe
and
that's
probably
what
it
is,
and
it
shows
my
american
ignorance
to
what
it
actually
is.
But
it's
fun
still
it's.
It's
got
very
much
got
that
world
cup
energy,
but
in
a
smaller
region,.
A
Cool-
and
we
are
two
minutes
past
so
I
think
we
are
ready
to
start
and
then
more
people
will
be
joining
soon,
but
I'm
julia.
So
I'm
here
for
the
logistical
reasons,
I'll
be
monitoring
the
q,
a
box
of
zoom,
where
you
can
pose
questions
for
darren
and
alison,
and
I'm
super
excited
to
introduce
allison
the
founder
and
ceo
of
modern
health
allison.
Take
it
away.
C
Hey
everyone
super
excited
to
be
here,
thanks,
julius
and
thanks
everyone
for
joining
us
ahead
of
a
july.
Fourth
weekend
super
super
excited
about
this
topic.
Given
you
know
how
relevant
it
is
with
everything
going
on
today
and
the
world
we're
living
in
today
and
very
very
excited
to
introduce
darren
who
has
been
named.
An
oracle
of
remote
work
by
cnbc
darin
serves
as
get
labs
head
of
remote,
a
visionary
in
organizational
design.
He
works
at
the
intersection
of
culture
operations,
people,
talent,
branding,
marketing
and
communication.
C
He
spent
his
career,
leading
remote
teams
and
charting
remote
transformations,
which
I'm
very
excited
to
learn
more
about.
He
holds
a
guinness
world
record
in
publishing
and
authored,
get
lab's,
remote,
playbook
and
living
the
remote
dream.
A
guide
to
seeing
the
world
setting
records
and
advancing
your
career
darren
has
pioneered
the
head
of
remote
role,
interviewed
by
cnbc
cnn,
the
washington
post
wall
street
journal
tech
crunch
fortune,
business
insider,
to
name
a
few
darin
very,
very
excited
to
have
you.
B
C
Awesome
and
for
all
those
who
are
listening
in
feel
free
to
to
add
any
questions
to
the
chat
we
want
this
to
be
as
interactive
as
it
possibly
can
be,
but
really
this
is
for
you,
so
please
yeah,
you
know,
add
questions
and
we'll
try
to
address
as
many
of
them
as
we
can
so
to
kick
off.
You
know
darren
would
love
to
hear
as
a
leader.
You
know
where
does
creating
psychologically
safe
atmosphere
start
what
are
the
responsibilities
of
of
leadership,
and
how
can
they
support
a
psychologically
safe
environment?
C
B
Yeah
so
I'll
give
you
some
context
before
diving
into
this
answer,
so
I'm
currently
at
get
lab
we're
a
collaboration
at
devops
platform.
We
have
300
people
in
more
than
65
countries
with
no
company-owned
offices,
so
the
company
was
built
to
operate
in
an
all-remote
fashion,
which
is
in
a
fascinating
organizational
design.
B
There's
an
article
in
the
journal
of
organizational
design
that
tries
to
wrap
its
mind
around
how
we've
constructed
this,
but
most
of
my
career
has
been
spent
in
a
different
place
along
the
spectrum
of
remote
and
a
hybrid
scenario,
and
of
course,
hybrid
looks
different,
depending
on
who
you
ask
the
point
of
bringing
all
of
that
to
light.
Is
it's
very
complex,
but
there
are
some
things
that
are
uniform
throughout
a
lot
of
people,
look
at
gitlab
and
they
say
oh
gitlab's,
all
remote.
B
So
what
they're
doing
in
the
field
of
remote
work
doesn't
apply
to
us
because
we
have
real
estate,
but
that's
not
true.
Most
of
what
we
found
are
proven
principles.
All
remote
makes
you
do
things
that
your
business
should
be
doing
anyway.
We
just
have
to
do
it
much
earlier
and
with
much
more
intentionality,
because
we
don't
have
the
office
as
a
crutch.
That
includes
creating
a
psychologically
safe
atmosphere.
It
unequivocally
starts
with
leadership.
B
If
you
don't
see
psychological
safety
being
honored
at
the
highest
level
of
the
organization,
it
cannot
be
administered
bottoms
up,
it
absolutely
has
to
be
top
down.
The
other
thing
I
would
offer
here
is:
this
cannot
be
something
that
is
administered
on
a
manager
to
manager
or
leader
to
leader
basis.
This
really
has
to
be
written
into
the
core
of
the
company,
because,
as
people
shift
managers,
they
shift
teams
they
advance
in
their
career.
B
One
thing
that
has
to
be
uniform
is
the
notion
of
psychological
safety.
So
here's
how
we
do
this
at
gitlab.
We
write
it
into
our
company
values.
We
have
six
core
values,
but
we
have
a
lot
of
substantiating
values.
These
are
the
operating
principles
of
how
things
like
collaboration
and
iteration
are
actually
lived
out
and
I'll.
Give
you
two
examples.
B
These
are
things
that
most
companies
would
say
are
tacit
or
implied
knowledge.
This
is
the
vibe
of
the
office,
the
cultural
unspoken
rules
of
how
work
gets
done,
but
in
a
remote
setting
you
can't
do
that
and
I
would
argue
it's
more
inclusive,
to
convert
what
is
tacit
too
explicit,
so
that
it's
documented
it's
written
down
and
can
be
easily
shared
with
the
organization
and
get
buy-in
around
it.
So
that's
a
boring
solution
but
write
down
what
psychological
safety
means
to
you
and
try
to
weave
it
into
the
fabric
of
your
company
values.
C
Super
super
helpful
thanks
for
sharing,
and
you
know
very
similar
to
to
the
way
that
we
approach
psychological
safety
at
modern
health.
I
think
one
of
the
other
things
that
that
we
embody
that
helps
create
a
psychologically
safe
environment
is
one
of
our
values
is
embrace
the
journey
and
really
that's
just
having
an
open
mind
to
different
perspectives.
To
really
whatever
comes
our
way
and
we
take
a
rule
from
improv
which
is
called
yes
and
so.
C
Instead
of
you
know,
a
scene
dies
an
improv
when
someone
says
no
right,
you
kind
of
give
something
on
stage
and
if
you
say
no
kind
of
the
air
is
that
out
of
the
room,
and
so
we
very
much
take
an
approach
that
we
can
disagree
and
actually
we
encourage
healthy
debate.
But
let's
approach
things
with
yes
and
yes
and
here's
my
perspective
and
here's.
C
You
know
from
my
from
where
I
said
how
I'm
thinking
about
this
and
have
those
healthy
debates,
so
I
think
for
us
embracing
the
journey
with
yes
and
is
one
of
the
ways
that
we
create
a
psychologically
safe
environment.
There's
there's
no
dumb
question.
There's
no
dumb
answer
like
that's
all
you
know
create
an
environment
where
people
feel
comfortable
sharing
their
ideas
and
also
leading
with
vulnerability.
C
C
B
Yeah,
so
the
precursor
to
this
was
geographic
bias.
So
if
you
have
lived
in
a
rural
part
of
the
world-
and
you
wanted
to
apply
for
a
job
in
a
major
city,
for
example,
where
you
knew
a
company
was
headquartered,
you
might
delete
your
address
from
the
resume
during
the
application
process.
Just
so
you
weren't,
geographically
biased
from
the
jump
by
seeing
an
address
that
isn't
already
aligned
with
where
a
company
has
their
epicenter
of
power.
B
So
proximity
bias
is
another
level
on
top
of
that,
and
it
really
boils
down
to
a
disconnect
between
expectations
and
communication.
So
if
you
see
praise
and
promotion
going
to
those
who
come
into
the
office
more
frequently
or
have
a
literal,
closer
relationship,
physical
relationship
with
someone
else
in
power,
this
is
where
proximity
bias
shows
up
we'll
talk
about
this
a
bit
more
in
depth,
but
in
an
all
remote
setting,
everyone
is
equalized.
Everyone
is
equal
distant
from
each
other.
B
A
lot
of
companies
are
going
hybrid
after
the
pandemic,
and
this
is
one
of
the
things
that
they
will
have
to
actively
work
to
combat,
because
humans
are
naturally
fond
of
things
that
are
close
to
them
and
it's
something
that
is
wired
into
our
dna,
so
you
have
to
actively
combat
it.
So
I'll
give
you
one
tip
here
that
I
think
is
really
powerful.
So
in
gitlab
we
tie
all
of
our
promotions
to
our
values,
and
any
company
can
do
this.
B
So
when
you
are
recommending
someone
for
a
promotion,
there
should
be
a
promotion
document
where
the
recommending
manager
has
to
write
down
how
this
person
has
exemplified
the
core
values
of
the
company.
What's
cool
about
this
is
that
is
a
location,
agnostic
practice.
You
can
have
values
exemplified
from
any
seat
in
the
world.
It
doesn't
have
to
be
in
an
office,
a
home
office,
a
wework,
an
airline
seat,
a
hotel
conference
room.
C
C
Yes,
there's
companies
that
have
gone
fully
remote,
but
I
also
imagine
there's
companies
that
are
trying
you
know
we
at
modern
health
are
going
to
try
this
hybrid
workforce
coming
this
fall
and
who
knows,
maybe
that
transitions
to
more
in
person
or
less
important
more
of
a
remote?
So
how
do
you
expect
that
to
evolve
over
time
and
are
there
new
biases
that
you
expect
to,
in
addition
to
proximity
bias
that
you
expect
companies
and
teams
to
face
and
different
challenges
like
this.
B
When
I'm
advising
companies
making
the
remote
transition,
I
start
with
a
list
of
things
not
to
do,
because
there
is
a
lot
of
things
that
you
need
to
do
well
to
make
the
remote
transition.
So
sometimes
it's
less
daunting
to
just
look
at
well.
What
do
we
not
do?
Let's
make
sure
we
don't
make
the
big
mistakes
and.
B
Really
starts
with
making
sure
that
the
executives
stay
as
out
of
the
office
as
possible,
so
for
companies
that
want
to
reopen
an
office,
I
advise
them
to
keep
their
executives
out
or
at
least
make
sure
that
remote
is
their
default
and
the
office
is
not
their
default.
The
reason
here
is:
it
sends
a
very
clear
signal
that
the
office
is
not
the
epicenter
of
power.
B
Place
that
you
go
to
work
remotely
so
that
people
don't
choose
to
go
into
the
office
to
rub
shoulders
with
the
right
people
they
choose
to
go
into
the
office
because
it's
a
change
of
scenery,
maybe
it's
more
minimal
to
working
than
whatever
their
current
home
situation
is.
Signals
are
very,
very
important
in
combating
proximity
bias
and
a
lot
of
leaders
aren't
really
aware
of,
let's
say
putting
the
shoe
on
the
other
foot
or
putting
themselves
in
the
position
of
someone
who
would
be
looking
up
to
them
really
really
important.
C
Yeah,
that's
really
interesting
to
think
about,
because
I
think
you
know
one
of
the
struggles
with
this
hybrid
approach
that
candidly
you
know
we're
thinking
about
as
well
as
as
we're
we
are
going
to
to
try
this
hybrid
approach.
This
fall
is.
We
are
setting
the
number
of
days
that
people
come
in
the
office
so
three
days
a
week,
tuesday,
wednesday
thursday,
and
can
get
into
a
little
bit
our
thought
process
there.
C
But
some
of
the
companies
are
basically
saying
we're
going
to
have
an
office
but
come
and
go
as
you
please,
and
we
thought
about
that
approach.
But
one
of
our
our
you
know
one
of
our
concerns
was
well.
Then
the
people
who
are
in
the
office
every
day
like
right
away
right
now,
there's
people
at
a
disadvantage.
Maybe
there's
folks
who
can't
get
into
the
office
for
whatever
reason,
and
so
those
are
the
folks
that
aren't
coming
in
and
now
you
create
right.
C
This
proximity
bias
for
those
who
are
coming
in
because
maybe
they
live
closer
to
the
office
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
it
creates
this
unf
fair
playing
field
for
those
who
are
at
a
disadvantage
to
coming
in,
because
you
have
this
full
flexibility,
and
so
that
was
one
of
our
concerns
with
that
approach
is
well.
Maybe
the
people
who
aren't
coming
in
are
working
mothers
or
people
who
live
farther
away
or
are
not
able
to
afford.
C
On
the
other
hand,
there's
benefits
to
having
structure,
so
you
can
try
to
create
some
level
playing
field
and
try
to
remove
these
biases
and
and
ultimately
you
know,
we
landed
on
having
structure
so
that
there's
there
is
no
no
chance
for
you,
know,
managers
or
execs
frankly
to
say
well,
these
people
are
the
people
that
we,
you
know.
We
have
full
flexibility.
These
people
are
coming
to
an
office
three
days
or
four
days
or
five
days.
C
A
week
and
these
people
on
my
team
never
come
in
right,
so
kind
of
creating
some
structure
but
curious.
Your
thoughts
on
that
for
the
companies
who
are
having
offices
and
allowing
full
flexibility
for
those
to
come
in
and
go
as
they
please.
I
think,
maybe
it's
just
having
a
really
open
conversation
about
that
and
making
sure
that
they're
not
having
that
bias,
but
curious.
Your
thoughts
on
on
having
the
approach
where
it
really
is.
Total
flexibility.
B
Yeah,
I
appreciate
the
transparency
there,
so
I'd
offer
two
responses
to
that
one.
I
doubt
there's
a
one
size
fits
all.
There
are
different
company
sizes,
there's
different
levels
of
existing
remote
fluency
and
the
comfortability
with
remote.
Different
industries
are
going
to
approach
this
different
different
seasons
of
the
company's
life
cycle.
B
B
If
we
don't
like
what
we
find
on
the
other
side
of
that
door,
we
walk
it
back.
There's
nothing
wrong
with
starting
with
a
plan
to
come
in
two
or
three
days
and
see
how
it
goes
for
a
quarter.
Pole
people
look
at
the
data.
How
often
do
people
come
in?
Is
this
having
a
positive
or
a
negative
impact
on
overall
morale
and
productivity
and
career
advancement
and
then
adjust
accordingly?
B
We've
never
done
this
before
this
type
of
sea
change
in
the
workplace
has
never
happened
before,
and
so,
if
you
were
not
already
structured
one
way
or
the
other,
fully
co-located
or
fully
remote,
this
is
new
territory
and
the
companies,
the
most
progressive
companies,
I
think,
will
tell
that
to
their
employees
and
say
look.
This
is
a
journey
and
we
hope
you're
on
board
with
us
and
we're
going
to
iterate
and
learn
as
we
go.
C
Yeah
I
like
that,
thanks
for
sharing
so
moving
into
some
other
topics,
you
know
I'm
curious
to
hear
how
how
does
git
lab
normalize
mental
health
in
the
workplace.
You
know,
I
think
mental
health
plays
a
huge
role,
especially
with
this
future
of
work,
as
people
are
thinking
about
how
to
best
support
their
employees,
and
we
now
know
that
you
know
mental
health
is
is,
is
critical
to
having
a
successful,
healthy
and
happy
workforce
that
ultimately,
can
be
a
successful
business
curious
how
you
guys
think
about
that
at
gitlab.
C
You
know,
of
course,
gitlab
has
has
recently
extended
access
to
modern
health
for
employees
through
2023
and
and
we've
seen
over
30
percent
engagement
across
all
of
gitlab's
workforce
all
around
the
world,
which
is
awesome,
so
we're
seeing
you
know,
really
really
great
engagement
as
we
work
and
partner
with
your
your
benefits
team,
but
just
curious
how
you?
How
do
you
think
about
mental
health
as
you're
thinking
about
the
future
of
work
and,
as
you
think,
about
a
remote
workforce
and
how
it
ultimately
can
support
their
mental
health
as
well.
B
So
I'll
start
with
this
mental
health
is
health.
Just
like
remote
work
is
work,
so
these
additional
adjectives
that
we
put
on
the
front
end
of
words
like
health
and
work.
I
think
they're
useful
for
now,
but
soon
we
won't
need
to
reiterate
that
we'll
almost
be
like
adding
tele
on
the
front
of
phone,
we
get
it
it's
a
phone,
so
first
off
mental
health
is
health
and
it
is
just
as
important
as
any
other
element
of
health.
So
you
mentioned.
We've
recently
recently
extended
our
partnership
and
we've
added
therapy
on
top
of
coaching.
B
So
it
really
starts
with
taking
a
look
at
what
can
we
do
to
support
our
workforce
and
I
would
say:
ask
your
workforce,
because
not
every
workforce
will
need
the
same
thing
and
as
your
people
get
more
globally
distributed
depending
on
cultures
and
expectations
and
norms,
they
may
ask
for
different
things
in
different
regions
of
the
world.
So
don't
assume
there
that
a
one-size-fits-all
approach
is
applicable
as
well.
Really
this
comes
down
to
talking
to
your
people
being
realistic
about
the
expectations
and
making
sure
that
one
thing
doesn't
override.
B
Another
companies
can't
say
that
mental
health
is
important,
but
then
set
expectations
that
don't
allow
people
the
space
to
actually
care
for
their
mental
health.
I
know
that
sounds
one-on-one
very
basic
and
foundational,
but
it
is
worth
reminding
folks,
especially
coming
out
of
a
pandemic.
What
we've
seen
globally
is
that
the
pandemic
has
squeezed
out
what
I
call
life's
buffer
times.
These
are
things
like
in
a
pre-pandemic
world.
B
If
you
traveled
every
couple
of
weeks,
you
would
have
time
in
your
day
to
pack
and
there
would
be
a
commute
to
the
airport
and
there
would
be
time
spent
in
airport
security
and
then
there's
some
time
getting
a
meal
at
the
airport.
It
is
very
unlikely
that
you
would
be
doing
work
during
this
time
and
those
ebbs
and
flows
of
real
life
give
your
mind
a
minute
to
reset
and
process
and
do
things
that
matter
to
you.
B
C
Yeah,
that's
total
totally
agree
with
the
points
you
made.
I'm
I'm
curious
your
thoughts
on
the
human
connection
aspect
of
mental
health.
You
know
with
more
and
more
companies
switching
to
fully
remote,
I'm
curious
what
you
guys
do
at
gitlab.
Do
you
see
value
in
bringing
humans
together?
I
think
you
know.
C
Naturally,
humans
crave,
that
authentic
interaction
right
where
we
get
to
spend
time
together
and
you
know,
meet
each
other
and
learn
about
each
other's
personal
lives,
and
sometimes
it's
hard
to
do
right
over
zoom,
so
curious.
Your
thoughts
on
balancing
those
needs
like
the
desire
as
humans
to
to
crave
that
that
that
interaction,
do
you
guys
have
do
you
guys
do
any
sort
of
off
sites
where
you
bring
people
together
physically
or
you
know,
what's
your
overall
just
approach
and
thought
on
that.
B
I
appreciate
you
asking
that,
because
I
oftentimes
take
this
for
granted
and
remember
and
fail
to
remember.
I
should
say
that
some
people
will
look
at
gitlab
and
say
well
is
the
goal
to
just
design
a
company
where
people
never
see
each
other
in
person?
Absolutely
not
so
gitlab
has
one
of
the
most
robust
in-person
strategies
of
any
company
that
I've
ever
seen.
As
you
pointed
out,
humans
are
relational
communal
beings
and
there
is
no
replacing
selective,
intentional
in-person
moments.
B
What
covet
has
shown
us
is
that
we
don't
necessarily
need
to
see
our
colleagues
every
single
day
in
the
office,
but
we
probably
should
see
them
sometimes,
and
so
in
get
lab,
we
get
the
whole
company
together
once
a
year
for
an
amazing
summit
called
get
lab,
contribute
it's
something
that
everyone
looks
forward
to.
Whenever
a
new
hire
joins
the
company,
we
give
them
the
iou
whenever
the
next
date
is,
it's
a
promise
that
we
will
invest
in
you
and
you
can
travel
to
meet
your
colleagues.
So
yes,
it
matters.
B
Now,
I'm
not
opposed
to
having
some
strategy
sessions
mixed
in
there,
but
make
sure
that
when
you
spend
the
money
to
get
people
together,
most
mostly
just
leave
it
open
for
people
to
bond
and
hang
out
and
do
excursions
together
and
toast
together
human
things
together
and,
in
the
meantime,
allow
them
to
live
where
they
are
most
fulfilled.
I
see
that
as
the
best
of
both
worlds.
It
gives
ultimate
optionality
for
people
to
choose
their
home
and
their
community
so
that
there's
very
rich
home
life
that
then
pours
back
into
work,
but
as
a
workplace.
C
That's
so
interesting,
so,
while
you
guys
are
a
remote
first
company,
you
still
value
the
in-person
connection
and
and
make
huge
investments
there.
It
sounds
like
so
that's
really
interesting
to
hear
about
because
I
think
people
probably
think
of
git
lab
and
they're
like.
Oh,
it's
a
remote
company,
everything's
remote,
but
there
is
still
a
human
component,
an
in-person
component
to
the
business
as
well.
C
B
C
B
Yeah,
so
I
would
say,
check
out
the
remote
work
report
by
gitlab.
You
can
search
for
that
and
drop
a
link
here
in
the
chat
we've
done
this
two
years
running
and
for
2021.
One
of
the
really
interesting
data
points
to
come
out
of
this
was
data,
supporting
the
link
between
transparency
and
visibility
of
work
in
the
workplace
and
the
feeling
or
sense
of
belonging
from
team
members.
B
So
a
lot
of
culture
leaders
look
to
things
like
zoom,
virtual,
happy
hours
or
on-sites
or
off
sites
to
increase
this
sense
of
belonging,
and
that
is
certainly
a
respectable
approach.
But
what
we
have
found
is
that
the
more
transparent
and
invisible
you
are
in
the
work
across
the
organization,
people
just
naturally
feel
closer
to
the
team.
So
here's
what
this
looks
like
in
practice.
B
So
on
and
so
forth,
because
even
if
their
day-to-day
work
doesn't
touch
those
areas,
it
just
feels
good
to
be
able
to
see
what
other
people
are
working
on
and
especially
in
a
remote
setting
when
you
might
not
get
to
see
people
in
person
for
six
or
12
months
at
a
time,
just
knowing
what
drives
them.
Knowing
what
they're
working
on
knowing
what
their
day
to
day
looks
like
it's
easier
to
feel
like
part
of
a
team
and
in
co-located
organizations,
a
lot
of
companies
are
structured
on
a
need
to
know
basis.
B
C
Super
helpful
yeah
really
really
helpful
points
kind
of
switching
back
to
just
how
people
are
transitioning
back
to
work
right
now
and
that
a
lot
of
things
are.
You
know
candidly
up
in
the
air
for
for
companies,
I'm
just
trying
to
figure
out
the
best
approach
and
on
one
hand
you
know
they
want
to
come
up
with
their
plan
and
put
that
in
place
and
on
the
other
they
want
to
stay.
You
know
flexible
and
nimble.
C
Do
you
think
that
there's
any
you
know
potential
challenges
with
iterating
too
quickly?
You
know
what
cadence
should
employers
be
thinking
about?
How
to
evaluate
is
there
is
their
plan
working?
So
let's
say:
if
someone's
going
with
fully
remote
or
hybrid
or
full,
you
know
more
in
the
office
office
centric.
How
should
they
evaluate
whether
or
not
their
plan
is
working?
How
quickly
should
they
iterate
on
those
plans?
Should
they
check
in
with
their
employees
once
a
quarter?
C
B
Yeah
so
I'll
plug
another
asset
that
we
have,
which
is
the
remote
playbook.
If
you
go
to
you'll,
see
a
download
link
right
at
the
top.
This
is
years
of
gitlab's
proven
principles
put
into
a
guide
that
you
can
actually
digest
over
the
weekend
and
a
lot
of
companies
are
using
this
as
their
blueprint
to
wrap
their
heads
around.
What
does
a
transition
look
like
from
a
company
that
has
already
done
this
so
I'll
start
there?
B
The
second
thing
I
want
to
mention
here
is
any
of
your
planning
should
focus
less
on
where
people
physically
are
and
more
on
how
the
work
gets
done.
So
the
global
narrative
right
now
on
the
workplace
is
all
about
return
to
office
or
return
to
work
as
if
we
haven't
all
been
working
through
the
pandemic.
The
problem.
B
We've
been
working
so
return
to
work
is
a
bit
of
a
slap
in
the
face
to
everyone
who
has
been
working
in
sub-optimal
scenarios
for
the
past
year
and
a
half
a
bit
of
levity
there,
but
more
seriously.
The
focus
there
is
on.
Where
are
your
people
which
masks
the
real
question
of?
How
are
your
people
working?
B
So
I
would
start
by
measuring
the
workflows
audit
all
of
your
workflows
and
ask
yourself:
can
this
be
done
outside
of
the
office
or
does
it
require
the
office
as
a
crutch?
That's
that's
a
red
flag
on.
Is
this
really
optimized
for
a
virtual
world
for
a
remote
first
world,
because,
ideally
you
want
to
convert
all
of
your
workflows
to
remote
first
so
that
they
can
work
in
the
office,
but
they
also
work
outside
of
the
office.
This
fundamentally
de-risks
your
business.
B
So
if
another
crisis
happens
or
you
have
a
large
contingent
of
your
workforce,
delocate
or
relocate
and
now
they're
not
in
the
office,
you
don't
want
all
of
your
workflows
to
fall
apart.
So
that's
where
I
would
start
and
then
measure
that
measure
the
effectiveness
effectiveness
of
the
transformation.
B
So
if
you
have
to
implement
a
new
tool
like
an
okr
tool
to
get
people
aligned
measure
the
effectiveness
of
that,
what's,
the
engagement
are
people
using
it.
I
actually
recommend
looking
at
recurring
meetings
if
you
have
a
systemic
meeting
problem
and
everyone
is
complaining
about.
Zoom
fatigue
set
a
quarterly
milestone
to
reduce
your
recurring
meetings
by
ten
percent,
every
single
quarter
and
measure
that
are
you
actively
changing
how
you
work
such
that
you
can
accomplish
the
goal
of
putting
more
time
back
on
people's
calendars.
B
C
B
Yeah
I'll
also
I'll
also
say
if
I'm
a
language
is
very,
very
important
as
we're
just
talking
about
here
and
we
just
hosted
an
event
remote
by
gitlab,
and
we
had
an
amazing
panel.
Twitter
twitter's
been
one
of
the
most
public
and
vocal
companies
in
transitioning
their
own
workforce,
and
they
are
being
very
careful
to
not
refer
to
a
re-reopening
or
returning
to
office.
Sorry
they're,
saying
we're
reopening
the
office,
because
the
only
thing
that's
changing
is
that
the
doors
are
going
from
locked
to
unlocked.
It's
not
like.
B
B
A
lot
of
companies
come
to
me
for
advice
on
what
does
a
head
of
remote
look
like,
or
how
do
I
hire
someone
to
lead
this
transition?
What's
the
one
can't
miss
skill
and
they
can't
miss
skill
is
storytelling
and
a
lot
of
people
are
like
what
what
does
that
have
to
do
with
change
management?
This
is
all
about
storytelling.
B
You
have
to
get
people
on
board
to
understand
this
massive
cultural
shift
internally,
to
explain
the
why
to
paint
the
picture
of
how
their
life
can
be
different
when
travel
restrictions
are
lifted,
it's
a
key
piece
of
getting
buy-in
and
reducing
dysfunction
and
chaos
and
confusion,
and
so
for
leaders
out
there
don't
overlook
the
importance
of
language
when
you're
going
through
this
transition.
It
really
really
matters.
C
Really
really
good
call
out
yeah,
that's
a
really
good
point.
So
gitlab
applies
a
manager
of
one
principle
to
prioritizing
rest
and
taking
time
off
curious.
You
know
for
those
who
aren't
familiar
with
this
concept,
how
can
they
begin
to
embrace
it
and
yeah?
What
more
can
you
share
about
about
this
principle?.
B
So
so
good
news
like
everything
else
at
gitlab.
This
is
also
documented,
so
some
context,
gitlab's
entire
company
handbook
is
public
to
the
world.
It
would
be
over
10,
000
pages.
If
you
printed
it
out,
trust
me,
we
don't
ask
people
to
read
it
all
when
they
onboard,
we
just
teach
people
how
to
search
it.
That's
this.
You
can
use.
C
B
Yeah
no
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
that,
and
I
want
to
reiterate
that,
because,
if
you're
listening
to
this,
you
can
just
go
find
how
we
do
it
and
you
might
not
want
to
do
it
exactly
the
same
way.
But
it's
all
there.
The
actual
operating
principles
are
there
and
you're
welcome
to
copy
as
much
of
it
as
you
want,
and
we
actually
have
an
an
inspired
by
gitlab
page,
where
we
keep
a
running
list
of
companies
who
will
publicly
say
that
we
have
inspired
how
they
have
transitioned
their
company.
B
This
includes
interns
all
the
way
up
to
the
chief
executives,
and
we
we
put
this
in
place
because
managers
as
in
people
managers
is
one
thing
but
giving
people
the
autonomy
and
the
mastery
of
their
own
time,
and
attention
is
incredibly
empowering,
especially
from
a
mental
health
standpoint.
If
you
walk
into
an
organization
that
says
we
trust
you
to
be
a
manager
of
one,
we
trust
you
to
monitor
your
own
time
and
attention.
If
you
aren't
needed
on
a
call,
you
can
opt
out
of
it
or
it's
okay,
to
look
away.
B
It's
totally
fine,
to
take
a
break
from
video
and
go
take
your
dog
for
a
walk,
you're,
the
manager
of
your
own
time
and
attention
you're,
also
the
manager
of
your
own
well-being.
So
if
you
are
stuck
on
a
project
where
you
can
feel
your
anxiety
levels
rising
up,
it
is
totally
okay
to
just
put
a
stop
sign
on
your
slack
message
and
go
do
what
you
need
to
do
and
you
don't
have
to
explain
it
or
justify
it.
You
are
a
manager
of
one
this.
B
The
manager
of
one
is
someone
who
asks
for
help
when
they
need
it,
and
so
that's
the
principle,
and
it's
been
one
of
the
most
empowering
and
liberating
parts
of
working
here,
and
we
see
a
lot
of
other
companies
embracing
elements
of
that.
It's
not
a
remote,
only
type
of
principle.
I
would
argue
that
this
principle
would
be
just
as
useful
in
a
co-located
space
or
a
hybrid
space.
C
Yeah
totally
agree.
This
makes
me
think
about
one
of
our
values,
which
is
people
first,
and
that
includes,
of
course,
our
our
end
users,
our
members,
but
also
our
own
people
right
putting
themselves
first,
and
the
analogy
we
often
give
is
it's
like
on
an
airplane
when
they
tell
you
to
put
your
face
mask
on
first
before
you
put
it
on
the
person.
Next
to
you,
and
really
we
I
mean,
of
course
this
is.
You
know
core
to
modern
health's
mission.
C
First,
do
what
you
need
to
do
to
take
care
of
yourself
prioritize
your
health,
your
physical
health,
your
mental
health,
whatever
it
is,
you
need
to
feel
you
know
on
top
of
your
game,
and
we
often
give
the
analogy
it's
it's
almost
like
we
as
professionals
in
this
day
and
age,
are
like
professional
athletes,
but
just
in
the
working
world,
and
just
like
professional
athletes
need
to
sleep
well
eat.
Well,
you
know,
take
care
of
themselves
train
rest.
C
We
have
to
do
all
those
things
as
well,
and
maybe
they
look
a
little
bit
differently.
You
know,
of
course.
Yes,
you
know
eating
well
and
getting
some
exercise
and
resting
and
sleeping
well
is
important,
and
also
for
some
people,
it's
spending
time
with
family,
taking
time
to
turn
off
work.
You
know
turn
off
their
notifications,
actually
not
check
their
phone
or
have
have
technology
interfere
with
their
personal
lives
or
time
with
family
and
loved
ones,
and
so
I
think
really.
B
B
If
you
only
inhale
or
you
only
exhale
for
an
extended
period
of
time,
you
will
have
some
significant
challenges
in
just
making
it
to
the
next
day,
and
so
the
same
principle
is
true
in
the
workplace.
If
you
try
to
grind
through
something
without
the
yin
and
the
yang,
the
inhale
and
the
exhale
at
some
point,
it
becomes
so
significantly
out
of
balance
that
it
is
actually
defeating
the
very
purpose
that
you're
going
for,
and
this.
B
Obvious
to
say,
but
we
have
to
remember
and
remind
ourselves
as
humans,
we
are
the
only
mammal
on
earth
that
can
override
our
innate
need
to
sleep
every
other
animal
on
the
planet
when
they're,
tired,
they
sleep
but
human
beings.
We
can
push
through
that
and
we
can
override
that,
and
we
have
to
remember
that.
That
is
an
interesting
part
of
what
makes
us
who
we
are.
But
it's
it's
good
to
give
voice
to
that
and
remember
that
things
like
time
and
rest
are
are
very
important.
C
Yeah,
that's
fascinating
somewhat
of
a
segway
good
segway
into
you,
know
the
concept
of
a
non-linear
workday
and
ultimately,
how
that
can
support
folks
to
put
their
own
face
mask
on
first
and
then
make
sure
they're
still
getting
their
work
done,
but
it
doesn't
necessarily
need
to
be
around
this
whole
concept
of
a
nine
to
five.
You
know:
how
does
this
approach
benefit,
well-being
or
health
overall,
I'm
curious
how
you
guys
approach
this
within
gitlab.
B
So
the
non-linear
work
day
is
a
fascinating
concept
in
the
book
that
you
mentioned,
living
the
remote
dream
and
an
entire
chapter
devoted
to
this,
and
not
all
not
all
roles
are
amenable
to
this.
So
if
you
are
a
surgeon
on
a
certain
shift,
you're
expected
to
be
in
the
operating
room
from
a
certain
time
to
a
certain
time,
you
won't
be
able
to
enjoy
the
benefits
of
a
nonlinear
workday,
but
for
many
knowledge
workers
you
can
start
to
break
down.
When
am
I
most
productive?
B
B
So
for
those
who
have
transitioned
to
remote
and
you're
still
working
the
exact
same
rigid
schedule
challenge
that
notion
start
experimenting
with
doing
things
a
little
bit
differently
breaking
up
your
day.
If
there's
something
that
matters
to
you,
try
to
weave
it
into
your
day
and
normalize
that
you're
coming
and
going
out
of
the
office,
and
it
is
not
a
sign
that
you
are
not
engaged
with
your
work.
B
It
is
a
sign
that
you
are
being
a
manager
of
one
that
you
are
so
in
tune
with
your
body
that
you
are
optimizing
your
day,
literally
by
the
hour
for
mental
health,
as
well
as
productivity
to
the
workplace
share
what
you
do.
This
is
a
radical
concept
for
a
lot
of
people
and
they
need
to
see
other
people.
Do
it
just
to
try
this
out
for
themselves,
and
so
that's
the
most
extreme
example.
B
It
matters
you
need
to
be
able
to
ramp
into
your
day
and
ramp.
Out
of
your
day,
I've
heard
a
lot
of
people
say,
like
I
missed
my
commute.
It
gave
me
a
chance
to
listen
to
my
podcast,
like
I
hear
you,
but
let's
not
force
everyone
to
go
back
into
rush
hour
traffic
just
so
you
have
podcast
time.
You
can
make
the
podcast
time,
but
you
have
to
be
intentional
about
slotting
that
into
your
day,.
C
Yeah,
that's
that's
super
helpful
and
it
makes
me
think
of
you
know.
Normalizing
boundary
setting
and-
and
we
actually
at
modern
health
have
boundary
badges
where
people
will
give
each
other
badges
for
setting
setting
boundaries,
and
I
think
it
could
be
as
simple
as
hey.
No,
I
can't
take
a
meeting
at
6
p.m.
You
know
I've
got
dinner,
cooking
dinner
and
having
a
family
dinner
with
my
kids
or
putting
my
kids
to
bed,
and
this
is
the
time
I
get
to
spend
with
them
but
curious.
B
Yeah,
this
is
another
thing,
that's
extremely
difficult
to
do
bottoms
up,
so
if
it
is,
if
it
is
empowered
from
the
very
top
like,
if
you
see
your
executives
doing
this,
it
becomes
very
easy
to
normalize
all
the
way
down.
This
is
very,
very
difficult
from
bottoms
up,
but
if
you
are
in
that
situation,
bring
it
up
to
your
leadership,
bring
it
up
in
manager,
one-on-ones
that
boundary
setting
matters
to
you.
B
It
is
likely
that
it
matters
to
the
person
you're
telling
it
to,
and
it
can
create
this
this
wave
of
momentum
that
helps
spur
change
in
the
organization.
I
will
give
you
one
small
tip
on
how
gitlab
leverages
technology
to
make
boundary
setting
a
more
prominent
part
of
our
culture,
so
we
use
pto
by
root.
It
is
a
slack
bot
that
tracks
our
pto
and
at
the
beginning
of
every
month,
people
can
opt
into
this
direct
message
from
the
program
and
it
pings
them
in
slack,
and
it
says,
hey
believe
it
or
not.
B
It's
the
first
working
day
of
a
new
month.
Have
you
considered
what
time
you're
taking
off
this
month?
If
not,
now
is
a
great
time
to
do
it
and
if
you
feel
like
you
can't
take
time
off
this
month's
month
copy
and
paste
this
message
into
your
next
one-on-one
document,
so
that
it
becomes
something
that
is
vocalized
with
your
manager.
B
So
we
literally
use
technology
to
give
people
permission
to
bring
this
up
in
the
workplace,
because
not
everyone
is
comfortable,
saying
that
people
get
into
a
grind
and
they
think
I
can't
take
time
off,
and
I
can't
even
mention
that
I
need
time
off.
Take
that
burden
away
from
people.
If
you
can
leverage
technology
to
make
that
a
part
of
the
general
conversation
do
it.
C
Super
super
helpful,
yeah
totally
agree,
and
I
think
even
just
you
know
how
culture
has
shifted
where
it's,
we
can
normalize
blocking
things
on
our
calendar
right
and
being
open
about
everything
from
hey.
I've
got
on
my
calendar
when
I
see
my
therapist
or
a
couple's
therapist
or
my
executive
coach,
and
just
being
open
and
honest
about
those
things,
and
I
totally
agree
that
this
is
something
that
has
to
to
come
from
the
top
down
right.
B
Yeah
indeed,
and
this
there
should
be
no
stigma
around
it,
because
what
it's
actually
doing
is
being
a
manager
of
one.
So
if
you
have
a
therapy
session-
and
you
don't
block
it
on
your
calendar-
then
everyone
else
will
just
assume
that
they
can
put
work
in
that
space,
because
you
didn't
be
honest
with
people
that
it
was
already
spoken
for,
and
so
there
should
be
no
stigma
around
it.
B
This
is
truly
being
a
better
manager
of
your
own
time,
as
well
as
the
expectations
of
folks
around
you,
so
normalizing
that
is,
is
big,
but
also
take
the
initiative
to
put
that
on
the
calendar
and
that
tends
to
spur
action.
People
follow
as
they're
led.
So
if
you're
you're
in
a
position
of
leadership
start
doing
that.
C
So
this
has
been
so
helpful
darren.
Thank
you
so
much
for
you
know
helping
to
to
walk
through
the
answers
to
each
of
these
questions.
I
think
we'll
pass
it
to
you
know,
starting
to
to
tackle
some
of
the
questions
that
some
of
the
the
participants
have
added
to
the
chat.
One
of
them,
sherry,
just
shared
that
I
thought
was
really
interesting,
is
how
do
we
transition
away
from
an
hour's
mindset?
In
addition
to
you
know
the
non-linear
day,
which
is
people
assume,
okay,
we
work
40
hours
a
week.
C
What,
if
someone
can
be
just
as
impactful
in
30
hours
or
less,
and
I
think
what
comes
up
for
me
is
I'm
really
you
know
as
a
leader
at
a
company
thinking
about
it
more
based
on
output
versus
number
of
hours
right.
What
are
we
tracking
towards?
What
are
our
goals,
setting
very
clear
goals?
We
use
okrs
and
kpis
to
track
progress
and
output
versus
number
of
hours,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
hours
you
know,
canada,
they
shouldn't
really
matter.
C
B
B
So
what
this
will
trigger
is
a
re-evaluation
from
leaders
on
managing
their
direct
reports.
You
can
no
longer
manage
by
how
many
hours
do
they
work,
or
am
I
impressed
by
the
clothes
that
they
wear?
You
really
have
to
define.
What
does
success?
Look
like
and
there's
some
interesting
research
by
slack's
future
forum
that
say
that
this
remote
transition
is
having
the
biggest
impact
on
middle
managers.
B
They're
feeling
the
brunt
of
this
and
one
of
the
core
reasons
is:
middle
managers
essentially
have
to
re-audit
how
they
measure
and
praise
and
promote
all
of
their
directs,
and
they
have
to
get
super
clear
and
explicit
on
what
does
success
look
like
and
if
you
can
write
that
down,
you
can
share
that
with
anyone
at
any
point
in
the
world
in
any
time
zone
in
the
world,
and
it
really
empowers
and
enables
a
remote
atmosphere.
But
if
you
can't
answer
that
question,
what
does
success?
B
Look
like
the
hours
are
irrelevant,
so
I
would
really
start
there
get
lab
we're
all
about
boring
solutions.
So
I
would
start
there.
Can
you
look
at
your
direct
and
answer?
What
does
success
look
like
and
then,
if
you
can
answer
that,
you
can
start
to
dig
a
bit
deeper
and
say
well?
Is
this
practical
or
feasible
to
be
done
in
30
or
48
hours
a
week,
or
is
this
going
to
require
60
hours
a
week,
because
if
so,
that's
the
red
flag
you
want,
maybe
we
should
retool
the
expectations.
B
Maybe
we
should
rearrange
the
team
redistribute
the
work.
Maybe
we
should
look
into
new
tooling
or
look
into
upskilling
and
learning
and
development
to
give
people
new
skills
to
do
things
more
efficiently
and
effectively.
It
does
invite
a
lot
of
questions.
I'm
not
saying
it's
not
more
work,
but
it's
worthwhile
work
and
it
puts
people
in
a
better
spot
as
an
employee
of
your
company.
C
Super
super
helpful
thanks
for
sharing
that
couldn't
agree
more.
There
was
one
other
question
around
sherry
shared
without
having
read
the
gitlab
handbook,
with
the
manager
of
one
concept
which
I
love.
What
is
the
main
role
of
the
manager,
the
coach
to
support
the
ability
to
be
manager
of
one
orchestration
beyond
each
individual
employee?
Can
you
share
a
little
bit
more
about
that.
B
B
So
in
co-located
roles,
it's
really
easy
to
be
a
micromanager
or
a
director
where
you're
always
on
the
offensive,
telling
people
what
to
do
and
so
for
task
oriented
people.
This
can
work
really
well,
but
in
a
remote
setting
you
don't
really
know
where
anyone
is
on
a
given
day.
You
don't
know
what
time
zone
they're
working.
Maybe
they
have
a
non-linear
work
day.
B
If
you
do
that,
your
directs
will
feel
comfortable,
surfacing
challenge,
surfacing
challenges
early
and
often
to
you.
So
you
can
catch
them
and
unblock
them
when
they're
small,
hopefully
so
your
goal
really
should
be
to
catch
those
and
unblock
your
people
and
let
them
run
as
fast
as
you
can.
If
you've
not
read
the
book
high
output
management,
I
would
very
much
recommend
looking
into
that
and
if
you
just
want
to
get
down
to
this
one
principle,
look
up
managerial
leverage.
B
C
B
Thankfully,
I
think
it
will
become
a
critical
part
of
how
candidates
evaluate
where
they
want
to
work
again.
Mental
health
is
health,
and
one
thing
that
the
pandemic
has
made
clear
to
everyone
is
that
health
matters
we
may
have
de-prioritized
it
in
the
past.
I
think
two
things:
health
and
community.
We
may
have
de-prioritized
those
and
said
I'll
get
to
health
later
on
in
life
or
I'll
get
to
community
later
on
in
life,
and
the
pandemic
has
made
us
realize
they
are
life.
B
That
is
really
all
that
we're
living
for,
and
I
do
expect
it
to
come
up
earlier
in
canada,
conversations
same
as
workplace
flexibility,
it
has
greatly
democratized
the
conversation
on
remote
work.
I
see
candidates
going
into
job
interviews
now
and
on
the
very
first
call
they
say
what
is
your
stance
on
workplace
flexibility
and
they
truly
expect
organizations
to
have
an
answer
to
that
and
then
the
next
question
is
going
to
be.
What
do
you
do
to
support
your
people
from
a
mental
health
standpoint
and
a
health
standpoint?
B
It's
going
to
be
critical,
because
if
you
look
at
the
hierarchy
of
needs,
those
things
have
to
be
satisfied
before
any
of
the
work
ever
begins
to
matter
and
we've
reached
a
place
now
where
people
feel
empowered
and
democratized
to
ask
those
questions,
and
so,
if
you're
listening
to
this
and
you're
saying
yes,
absolutely
be
the
change
we
want
to
see.
Ask
those
questions
bring
it
up
at
work
challenge
your
leaders
challenge
your
directs
to
make
sure
that
is
a
it's.
C
Couldn't
agree
more,
and
this
is
something
we're
seeing
firsthand
at
modern
health.
Mental
health
has
really
become
that
fourth
pillar
benefits
right.
You've
got
medical,
dental
and
vision,
and
we
know
mental
health
is
just
as
important
and
so
we're
seeing
it
as
table
stakes
for
employers,
and
I
love
what
you
said
be
the
change
that
you
want
to
see.
I
think
everyone
on
this
call
all
of
us.
We
have
a
huge
opportunity
to
rewrite
what
it
means
for
for
people
to
show
up
at
work.
What
is
the
future
of
work?
C
How
can
we
create
a
an
inclusive
and
healthy
and
supportive
work
environment
while
also
having
a
very
successful
business
that
thrives
where
people
thrive
and
business
drives,
and
we
don't
have
to
sacrifice
one
or
the
other?
It
can
be
done,
and
all
of
us
on
this
call
can
play
a
huge
role
in
that.
So
I
really
really
loved.
You
know
that
you
shared
that
and
ending
on
that
note
for
everyone
to
to
be
the
change
that
they
want
to
see,
because
we
all
can
play
a
role
in
that
well
darren.
Thank
you
so
much.