►
From YouTube: Remote Interview with Darren Murph of GitLab
Description
https://www.collarborationsuperpowers.com
DARREN MURPH is the Head of Remote at GitLab and the author of Living The Remote Dream,’ GitLab’s Remote Playbook, as well as ‘iPad Secrets’ and ‘iPhone Secrets’. He is also has the Guinness World Record for most blog posts ever written! In this interview, we talk about how GitLab works as the world's largest all remote company, what the Head of Remote position entails, and what companies are getting wrong - and right - about hybrid working.
For more stories information visit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenmurph
A
Welcome
everybody
to
this
remote
interview,
my
name
is
lisette
and
I'm
interviewing
people
and
companies
doing
great
things
remotely
and
today,
on
the
line
all
the
way
from
north
carolina.
It's
my
honor
to
be
speaking
with
darren,
murph
and
darren.
You
are
the
head
of
remote
at
gitlab,
we're
going
to
talk
about
what
that
means.
You're
the
author
of
several
books,
one
is
living
the
remote
dream.
The
other
is
the
get
labs
remote
playbook
we're
gonna,
definitely
get
to
that
and
fun
fact.
You
are
a
guinness
world
record
holder
for
most
blog
posts
ever
written.
A
B
Thanks
for
having
me
so,
for
the
most
part,
I've
been
a
homebody,
especially
during
covid
during
normal
times,
I
would
say
I'm
50
50
at
home
and
on
the
road,
so
I
have
two
distinct
setups.
So
at
my
home
I
have
three
monitors.
This
is
definitely
my
proverbial
nasa
mission
control.
It's
where
I'm
most
comfortable.
I
have
everything
perfectly
dialed
in
exactly
how
I
wanted
a
height
adjustable
desk,
the
right
keyboard,
the
right
mouse.
I've
spent
a
lot
of
time
fine-tuning
this.
That
works.
For
me
in
terms
of
my
virtual
tool,
stack,
it's
very
simple.
B
I
use
gitlab
the
platform
to
do
all
of
my
work
related
collaboration.
I
use
zoom
for
video,
chats
g
suite
for
all
of
the
things
that
g
suite
does
and
slack,
and
we
use
slack
in
an
unusual
way
at
gitlab.
We
can
get
into
that.
If
you
want,
we
delete
all
of
our
messages
after
90
days,
so
we
don't
really
use
it
for
the
typical
things
that
most
people
use
it
for,
but
we
try
to
keep
our
tool
stack,
pretty
minimal,
so
we
keep
communication
fracturing
to
a
minimum.
B
A
Indeed,
I
love
working
at
home,
but
man
I
do
miss.
I
do
miss
being
in
new
places.
It's
it's
totally
different
experience
when
you're
forced
at
home
than
than
when
you
get
to
choose
right.
It's
nothing
comparable.
Let's
dive
into
really
quickly
for
those
who
have
lived
under
a
rock
for
the
last
five.
A
B
Is
a
fascinating
place?
We
build
a
complete
devops
platform,
so
we
help
people
build
great
software
and
collaborate
across
teams.
That's
what
get
lab
does
but
who
get
lab
is
is
one
of
the
most
fascinating
organizational
designs.
I've
ever
seen.
We
are
over
300
people
across
more
than
65
countries
and
regions,
and
we
have
no
company
owned
offices
at
all
and
it
was
intentionally
structured
as
an
all
remote
company
and
it
has
grown
that
way.
So
we
have
recruited
that
way.
A
Yeah
and
indeed-
and
I
didn't
even
think
about
the
scaling
because
it
says
I
think
I
read
on
the
website-
it's
really
the
largest
all
remote
company
in
the
world.
As
far
as
we
know,
maybe
it's
different
now
that
the
pandemic
has
hit
right
like
everybody's
remote.
But
okay,
can
I
ask
you
a
bit
about
scaling
because
so
many
people
say
you
cannot
scale
remote
but
clearly,
you've
done
it
so
that
it
proves
that
wrong.
But
I'm
sure
that
there
were
some
growing
pains.
B
A
lot
of
it
was
mental,
so
when
people
come
into
get
lab,
there's
a
very
rigorous
onboarding
process
where
we
meticulously
document
our
ways
of
working,
and
I
call
these
remote
first
ways
of
working.
But
the
secret
here
is
that
much
of
what
we
do
isn't
unique
to
all
remote.
These
are
very
good
business
principles
that
any
business
should
be
doing,
but
in
an
all
remote
setting.
You
have
to
commit
to
them
much
earlier
in
the
stage
of
the
company
and
with
much
greater
intentionality.
B
You
really
have
to
commit
to
using
digital
tools
and
using
a
certain
ways,
remote
first
ways
of
working
early
on
and
if
you
do
that,
early
on
it
scales
very
nicely
time.
Zones
is
a
great
example
of
this
time.
Zones
for
most
companies
actually
get
more
difficult
at
scale,
and
it
makes
you
want
to
keep
people
within
a
single
time
zone
so
that
there
is
some
amount
of
synchronous
overlap.
B
But
if
you
commit
to
asynchronous
workflows
early
on
when
you
scale
and
you
hire
more
people
in
a
more
diverse
array
of
time
zones,
it
actually
gets
easier,
because
now
you
have
more
redundancy
and
more
resiliency
people
in
more
places
where
it's
comfortable
for
them
to
work.
So
if
you
built
the
right
infrastructure
for
work
to
be
handed
off
around
the
globe,
it
actually
gets
easier
at
scale.
So
time
zones
is
always
a
fun
one.
To
talk
about.
A
Right
because
yeah
there's
a
physics
problem
there
right,
we
can't
the
the
time
zones
are
always
going
to
be
an
issue
and
we're
going
to
get
into
into
asynchronous.
But
I
quickly
want
to
ask
about
your
onboarding
processes
because,
as
I
was
reading
through
the
handbook,
I
saw
that
you
have
a
very
different
kind
of
onboarding
process
than
most
companies
do.
It
is
self-driven
and
self-learning.
A
B
There
are
people
elements
of
it
but
to
to
a
large
degree.
Yes,
but
here's
the
thing
most
people
start
onboarding
at
get
lab
before
they
ever
join
the
company.
We
are
very
transparent
about
what
we
are
and
what
life
is
like
at
gitlab.
For
those
who
aren't
aware,
the
gitlab
handbook
is
now
over
13
000
pages.
B
When
I
joined
the
company,
it
was
around
2500,
so
it
has
scaled
massively,
but
we
are
public
about
what
culture
is
like
what
life
is
like,
and
so
people
do
their
research
ahead
of
time
and
you
can
find
out
what
it's
like
to
work
at
get
lab
that
purifies
our
recruiting,
funnel
people
self-select
into
wanting
to
work
in
this
type
of
environment.
So
there's
largely
no
surprises.
When
you
get
here,
you
already
can
see
what
onboarding
will
look
like
once
you
do
get
here.
Onboarding
happens
within
gitlab
the
platform.
B
This
is
a
dog
fooding
technique
so
that
you
get
comfortable
and
familiar
with
the
gitlab
platform
that
you'll
be
collaborating
in
and
helping
to
build
every
single
day,
and
we
set
it
up
very
methodically.
There
are
check
boxes
for
weeks,
one
through
four.
You
never
know,
what's
it's
never
a
mystery.
What's
coming,
you
know
where
you
stand
in
the
checklist,
but
it
is
largely
self-driven.
B
We
hire
for
this
principle
of
manager
of
one
we
want
people
who
are
comfortable
with
autonomy
and
being
a
manager
of
their
own
attention,
and
you
have
to
have
that
drive
of
self-service
because
in
an
all
remote
organization,
it's
a
lot
more
difficult
to
just
tap
someone
on
the
virtual
shoulder
and
we
want
to
reinforce
the
habit
of
looking
first
in
the
handbook
before
asking
a
person.
And
the
reason
for
this
is
it's
how
you
scale
knowledge.
B
We
work
handbook
first,
if
it's
not
in
the
handbook,
it
doesn't
exist,
and
so
we
want
people
to
think
first,
I
should
query
the
handbook
see
if
the
answer
is
there
and
by
the
way,
that's
where
all
of
our
culture,
our
values,
our
operational
procedures,
everything
is
and
then,
if
it's
not,
there
certainly
ask
a
person,
and
once
you
get
the
answer,
make
sure
you
document
it
in
the
handbook,
so
that
no
one
has
to
ask
this
question
again.
It
is
a
unique
way
of
working.
But
again
I
go
back
to
my
earlier
point.
B
I
would
argue
this
is
a
better
way
of
onboarding.
Even
if
everyone
is
in
the
office,
it
massively
reduces
the
burden
on
a
people
or
hr
team
from
re-answering
the
same
question,
hundreds
or
thousands
of
times.
If
it's
documented
it's
much
more
efficient
and
if
a
new
hire
joins,
they
read
something
documented
in
onboarding
and
they
see
that
there's
a
way
to
be
made
better.
We
just
make
a
simple
update
to
the
onboarding
we
iterate
on
our
onboarding
all
the
time,
whereas
if
it's
just
hearsay
or
verbalization,
it's
much
more
difficult
to
concretely
get
better.
A
Wow,
that's
amazing,
so
how
many
people,
I'm
sure
you
know
every
company
hires
a
certain
number
of
people
and
there's
a
percentage
that
just
don't
make
it
they
they
come
on
board
and
then
they're
like
this.
Wasn't
what
I
expected
this
isn't
for
me:
where
do
people
fail
mostly
when
they're
getting
on
board
or
what
is
it
that
yeah?
That
makes
it?
So
it's
not
successful.
B
That
would
get
you
blacklisted
at
a
prior
organization.
One
of
these
is
sharing
with
a
low
level
of
shame.
One
of
our
substantiating
values
is
low
level
of
shame
and
we
encourage
people
to
share
their
ideas,
just
these
slivers
of
ideas
early
and
often
to
receive
input
and
feedback
from
everyone
in
the
organization,
because
we
believe
the
smallest
idea,
if
it
gets
planted
early,
there's
a
lot
of
people
that
can
jam
and
incubate
on
the
that
idea
and
make
it
great
now
this
goes
directly
against
conventional
norms,
which
is
don't
ship.
B
Anything
don't
share
anything
until
you've
thought
of
everything
that
it's
perfectly
polished.
We
want
the
opposite
of
that
and
so
convincing
people
that
that's
actually
how
we
work
and
it's
not
a
trap.
Does
it
take
some
time
there
is
a
people
element
to
the
onboarding,
which
is
called
an
onboarding
buddy.
B
We
pair
every
new
hire
with
someone
who's
been
at
the
company
for
a
while,
and
you
can
go
to
that
person
and
ask
as
many
questions
as
you
want,
and
that
person
will
most
likely
direct
you
to
links
in
the
handbook,
but
this
person
is
also
critical
for
building
your
stakeholder
network.
A
lot
of
people
joining
remote
teams
right
now
are
asking.
How
do
I
get
to
know
people?
What
does
my
network
feel
like
in
a
co-located
space?
You're
generally
encouraged
to
wander
the
halls
until
you
bump
into
the
right
people?
B
Who
who
will
be
your
key
stakeholders,
two
problems
there,
one
it's
massively
inefficient,
two,
it's
a
nightmare
for
introverts,
so
the
on
onboarding
buddy
gets
a
grasp
of
what
your
job
is,
takes.
A
look
at
the
org
chart
and
intentionally
sets
up
key
early
meetings
for
people
that
will
be
beneficial
in
forwarding
your
career.
So
it
takes
the
guesswork
out
of
it
and
it
makes
it
easy
for
people
to
know
that
they
are
being
taken.
A
Amazing
there's
a
lot
to
learn
about.
A
lot
of
people
are
asking
me
about
onboarding
and
I
think
yeah
there's
a
lot
to
learn
there
for
companies
especially
go
to
hiring
remote
and
going
remote,
but
I
want
to
dive
into
next
the
the
handbook,
your
central
repository
for
how
the
company
is
run
and
it's
open
to
the
public.
A
So
let's
first
start
with.
Why
is
it
open
to
the
public?
That's
amazing,
I
mean
that's,
that's
pretty
transparent,
everybody
can
see
exactly
the
operations
and
the
pursuit,
and
it's
very
detailed.
So
it's
not
like
there's
a
public
version
and
a
private
version.
There's
one
version
so
why
the
transparency.
B
Yeah
this
blew
my
mind
when
I
was
interviewing
and
handbook
undersells
it
to
some
degree.
What
it
really
is
is
actual
operating
manual
of
the
company,
most
people,
think
of
handbook,
and
it's
some
flimsy
pdf-
that
gets
revised
gently
and
emailed
around
to
the
company
once
a
year,
and
you
have
to
take
some
quiz
to
say
that
you've
read
it
the
gitlab
handbook.
We
don't
expect
everyone
to
read
13
000
pages
of
it
during
onboarding.
We
just
teach
you
how
to
search
it.
B
So
some
people
ask
me:
hey,
is
the
handbook
too
big
and
I
say
well:
is
there
too
much
information
on
the
internet,
or
did
you
just
learn
how
to
use
google
and
that's
a
bit
tongue-in-cheek,
but
we
just
teach
people
how
to
find
what
they
need.
Instead
of
trying
to
constrict
the
amount
of
information,
it
is
public
because
transparency
is
one
of
our
core
values.
Gitlab
has
six
core
values
together,
they
spell
credit.
B
I
would
say:
google,
the
gitlab
values
page
is
a
fascinating,
read,
you'll
find
all
six
values,
as
well
as
substantiating
values,
sub
values.
Underneath
transparency
is
a
value
because
it
makes
us
a
better
business
and
when
our
handbook
is
public
to
the
world
it
reinforces
our
mission
of
everyone
can
contribute.
B
A
lot
of
the
get
lab
product
has
been
influenced
by
the
community
and
if
you
aren't
public
with
your
product,
how
will
the
community
know
how
to
make
it
better?
The
same
goes
for
our
organizational
design.
We
want
our
values
to
be
public
because
we
want
others
to
look
at
it
and
help
make
it
better
if
they
so
choose.
A
few
years
ago
we
had
someone
who
was
a
copywriter,
find
our
values
page
and
they
actually
made
a
merge
request.
B
This
is
a
function
within
the
gitlab
program
to
update
and
edit
some
of
the
grammar
on
our
values,
page
to
make
it
more
readable.
That
is
exactly
the
type
of
behavior
that
we
want
to
instill,
and
the
values
page
in
particular
is
always
evolving.
In
2020
alone,
we
had
almost
100
iterations
to
the
company
values
page,
and
so
I
say
the
word
values,
but
in
practice
these
are
the
actual,
tangible
ways
that
we
treat
each
other
and
the
behaviors
that
we
want
to
encourage
across
the
team
as
well
as
outside
of
it.
A
That's
that's
amazing.
It's
it's!
It's
incredible
to
see
that
this
is
sort
of
the
main
repository,
and
actually
I
was
thinking
about
the
transparency
and
in
a
way
it's
like.
What's
the
harm,
what
what
if
a
company
knows,
all
the
operations
and
what
what
damage
would
that
do?
I'm
sure
there
must
be
some
down.
Have
you
experienced
any
downside?
I
should
just
ask:
is
there
any
downside
to
doing
that?
There's.
B
Your
time-
and
this
is
going
to
be
a
huge
epiphany
in
the
remote
transition
in
the
past.
Holding
things
close
to
the
chest
could
be
a
competitive
advantage,
but
the
truth
is
the
more
that
you
share
publicly
and
the
more
that
you
invite
feedback
and
invite
input
the
more
resilient
you'll
be
to
crises
and
the
more
open
you'll
be
to
new
ideas,
and
this
feeds
into
diversity
and
inclusion,
and
all
of
the
things
that
you
want
as
the
underpinning
of
your
organization.
B
The
other
thing
is,
there
is
an
intrinsic
link
between
belonging
in
a
company
and
externally
feeling,
like
a
company,
is
relatable
to
you
or
resonates
to
you
and
the
amount
of
visibility
and
transparency
in
your
work.
So
a
lot
of
leaders
are
saying:
how
can
I
make
my
team
feel
like
they
belong?
The
answer
is:
make
your
work
more
visible
and
transparent.
B
If
it's
easy
for
someone
in
the
legal
team
to
look
across
your
system
and
see
the
goals
and
objectives
of
the
marketing
team,
it's
easy
to
feel
like
you're,
a
part
of
the
same
team.
You
can
see
what
people
are
working
on.
You
don't
have
to
ask.
There's
not
this
embedded.
Mistrust
of.
Why
are
these
communication
walls
stood
up?
Tear
those
down?
You
want
to
be
able
to
push
the
boundaries
of
that
transparency,
isn't
just
good
for
morale
and
culture.
It's
generally
good
for
business
as
well.
A
Hopefully
I
mean
there's
still
so
much
of
it
that
exists
in
the
world,
but
you
know,
even
when
I
was
reading
a
team
of
teams
by
stanley
mcchrystal
general
sandra
mccrystal,
he
was
also
saying
that
the
military
had
to
adapt
from
the
older
command
and
control
style
to
a
more
flattened,
less
hierarchical
version,
just
because
it
allowed
them
to
move
faster
and
innovate
quicker
in
terms
of
what
they
had
to
do.
I'm
assuming
the
same
thing
could
happen
for
business.
It's
just
a
dinosaur
model
yeah,
based
on
what
we
had
before
so.
B
Remote
in
general
opens
the
eyes
of
the
world
to
how
much
we
were
doing
simply
because
it
was
the
way
that
things
have
always
been
done
and
that's
the
most
dangerous
sentence
in
all
of
business.
Well,
that's
the
way.
We've
always
done
it
and
going
remote,
enables
you
and
gives
you
permission
to
challenge
all
of
those
preconceived
notions
and
so
public
versus
private.
The
amount
of
transparency
is
just
one
of
many
facets
that
companies
are
able
to
audit
now,
with
great
permission.
B
Early
on
it
was
the
ability
to
travel,
so
my
wife
and
I
were
able
to
visit
all
50
u.s
states
over
50
countries.
While
I
earned
a
guinness
world
record,
so
it
was
very
clear
to
me
that
remote
work
was
life's
greatest
cheat
code
to
actually
do
the
things
that
most
people
have
to
put
on
their
bucket
list
before
you
start
slipping
a
disc
in
your
back.
B
It
wasn't
all
that
difficult
to
make
happen,
but
if
you
look
at
that
journey
and
compare
it
to
what
it
would
be
like,
if
you
had
the
rigidity
of
a
commute
or
a
nine
to
five
every
single
day,
it
becomes
much
more
difficult,
and
so
now
that
I
am
an
adoptive
parent,
I
look
at
the
orphan
crisis.
I
look
at
how
many
kids
need
homes,
and
I
think,
if
just
a
small
percentage
of
the
newly
remote
workers
post
covet
use
their
recaptured
commute
time
to
adopt
or
foster.
B
We
as
a
society
could
solve
the
orphan
crisis
in
an
incredibly
short
period
of
time,
with
no
additional
investment
or
infrastructure
at
all.
So
what
other
crises
exist
that
I'm
not
so
intimately
aware
of?
That
could
also
be
solved
by
giving
people
their
time
back,
and
then
they
use
it
towards
something
that
they're
called
to
that
matters
to
them.
This
is
a
big
deal.
B
We
talk
about
the
tactical
parts
and
the
granular
parts
about
remote
work,
but
the
real
heart
of
it
is
the
ability
to
fundamentally
change
how
we
think
about
life,
the
relationship
between
work
and
life.
It
enables
so
much
more
to
be
done
when
you
aren't
fighting
for
the
moments
around
the
fringes
of
a
commute
and
a
rigid
nine
to
five.
If
that
happens
at
scale,
I
am
much
more
hopeful
about
the
future.
A
Yeah
totally
like
think
of
what
we
could
do
when
we
get
the
right
minds
working
together
to
solve
global
problems.
In
fact,
my
own
journey
started
with
a
guy
who
wanted
to
solve
the
problem
of
aging,
and
he
was
frustrated
that
longevity
scientists,
weren't
sharing
data
and
collaborating
to
solve
this
pesky
problem,
and
I
was
like
whoa
like
wow
aging.
I
never
thought
that
that
was
a
problem
to
be
solved
but
bring
it
on.
You
know:
I'd
love
to
stay
young
for
as
long
as
possible,
but
so
and
I
want
to
go
back.
A
I
had
a
question
about
what
you
were
doing
and
I
might
just
oh.
I
was
just
going
to
comment
in
terms
of
the
commute.
I'm
hearing
a
lot
of
people
saying
you
know
as
offices
open
up
and
people
are
starting
to
sort
of
go
back
on
a
part-time
basis
or
just
a
couple
days
a
week
that
they're
noticing
how
inefficient
and
awful
the
commute
actually
is
they're.
Just
like.
I
can't
believe
I
used
to
do
this
every
single
day.
You
know
like
an
hour
commute
was
normal.
I
mean
in
fact
an
hour
and
a
half.
A
B
B
It
is
surprising
to
me
that
it
took
this
long,
but
once
you've
lived
without
it
and
you
recognize
that
there
is
a
different
way
to
do
it.
There's
no
going
back,
and
I
really
see
this
as
the
greatest
transfer
of
institutional
power
in
our
lifetimes,
and
so
the
friction
that
you
feel
with
people.
Rejecting
these
commands
to
go
back
into
the
office
is
because
number
one
they've
proven
in
many
cases
that
they
can
be
productive
and
move
their
their
company
forward
without
doing
that.
B
But
two
when
you've
been
in
this
situation
for
18
or
20
months,
you've
had
time
to
fundamentally
change
the
way
that
you
live
and
despite
all
the
negatives
and
all
the
stressors
of
the
pandemic
and
truth
be
told,
most
people
haven't
been
able
to
work
remotely
yet
they've
been
working
from
home
during
a
pandemic,
they
haven't
actually
enjoyed
the
spoils
of
proper
remote
work
and
even
given
that
they
can
see
that
their
time
is
better
allotted
by
themselves
and
not
dictated
by
a
commute.
That
is
an
incredibly
powerful
force.
When
you
have
a
unified
front.
A
Yeah-
and
I
always
say
it's
not
remote
work
that
people
are
excited
about,
it's
the
freedom
right
and
the
remote
work
is
just
our
method
of
of
getting
there
like
we're
busting
out
of
the.
I
call
it
day,
prison
the
old
the
offices,
but
that's
my
own,
you
know
being
dramatic,
but
yeah
we're
busting
out
a
day.
Prison
is
what
it
feels
like
in
this
way.
Okay,.
B
A
B
It's
all
types
and
honestly,
this
is
why
I
recommend
the
company
hiring
ahead
of
remote.
There
is
a
lot
to
change.
This
is
a
fundamental
re-architecting
of
how
all
work
gets
done.
So
it
is
physical
infrastructure,
yes,
but
it's
also
cultural
infrastructure,
I'm
advising
companies
to
do
a
values.
Audit
are
your
values,
just
words
on
a
wall
or
are
they
literally
converting
tacit
knowledge?
The
unspoken
rules
of
working
together
into
explicit
knowledge,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
low
level
of
shame
in
most
companies
that
would
be
tacit.
B
You
would
need
to
work
in
teams
for
maybe
a
year
or
two
years,
to
see
people
operating
with
a
low
level
of
shame
before
it
absorbed
into
you
via
osmosis,
and
you
thought.
Oh,
I
get
it
now.
People
are
sharing
things
early
and
often
you
have
to
convert
that
to
explicit
literally
write
it
down
so
that
people
know.
This
is
how
we
collaborate
and
then
the
third
part
is
the
infrastructure
on
tooling.
So
at
gitlab
we
use
the
get
lab
platform
to
collaborate.
It
is
our
central
hallway
where
all
work
gets
done.
B
So,
even
if
our
design
team
is
mocking
something
up
in
photoshop,
they
will
create
a
gitlab
issue
and
link
to
their
mockup,
so
that
everyone
in
the
company
has
visibility
to
the
tool
that
they're
using
and
that
type
of
rigor
around
documentation
and
making
sure
that
your
work
is
transparent.
It
requires
that
cultural
foundation
to
be
built,
but
you
also
need
a
tool
like
get
lab
to
be
able
to
facilitate
this
new
way
of
working.
A
B
A
One
yeah
I'll,
let
you
know
good
yeah
good,
shout
out
actually,
because
that
is
a
huge
issue
for
companies
right
like
who's
going
to
do
that.
How
do
you
do
it
and
now
I've?
I've
also
heard
of
it's,
not
software
as
a
service,
but
it's
more
like
infrastructure
as
a
service.
Instead
of
buying
a
whole
big
system.
You
rent
it
out
on
a
monthly
subscription
basis,
makes
total
sense
right
like
it's
like,
then
you
can
change
it
out,
like
oh,
the
zoom
room
didn't
work.
A
Let's
put
in
a,
I
don't
know
what
what
the
replacement
would
be,
whatever
it
would
be.
Okay,
so
the
second
one
is,
then
your
cultural
infrastructure,
that's
good!
The
way
we
behave
the
documentation,
the
going
more
written
communication
and
then
there's
the
tools,
the
apps,
the
the
software
in
which
we
communicate
and
collaborate
and
become
more
transparent.
So
there's
quite
a
lot
and
we've
got
to
talk
now
about
head
of
remote
because
that
just
segues
right
into
head
of
remote.
A
B
July
2019
is
when
I
joined
so
this
was
before
the
onset
of
the
pandemic.
Gitlab
was
scaling
rapidly
and
realized
that
they
wanted
to
put
intentionality
around
operationalizing
our
expertise
and
remote
fluency
and
then
creating
an
avenue
to
share
this
with
the
world.
So
I
look
at
my
role
as
very
inside
outside
you
have
to
have
great
infrastructure.
People
have
to
be
able
to
work
really
well
remotely.
They
need
the
right
tools,
the
right
guidance,
the
right
learning
and
development,
the
right
onboarding,
the
right
culture.
B
B
Most
companies
covet
happened
to
them
and
they
thought
oh,
no.
This
has
never
been
done
before.
How?
How
are
we
going
to
figure
it
out
and
gitlab
was
there
to
raise
our
hand
and
say
actually
we've
been
doing
this
for
a
really
long
time?
This
is
how
we
did
it,
and
because
so
many
of
these
principles
are
foundational
business
principles
not
exclusive
to
all
remote.
It
has
become
incredibly
practical
and
implementable
across
many
industries.
A
B
First
off
it
spurs
awareness
about
gitlab,
so
this
helps
get
lab,
because
the
more
people
know
that
gitlab
exists.
If
they
learn
about
us
by
us,
helping
them
create
their
blueprint
for
transitioning
to
remote,
they're,
more
likely
to
have
positive
sentiment
on
the
product
that
we
build
and
we
build
a
product
that
enables
collaboration.
B
So
we
have
seen
that
halo
effect
be
very
practical,
but
I'll
also
say
that
it's
just
who
we
are
our
mission
is
everyone
can
contribute,
and
if
we
put
our
product
documentation
out,
it
makes
sense
that
we
should
also
put
our
organ
design
organizational
design
principles
out,
because
we
want
other
companies
to
see
what
we're
doing
and
learn
from
them.
We
want
to
be
a
part
of
mass
proliferation
of
remote
work,
because
the
rising
tide
will
lift
all
boats.
B
If
we
can
help
the
world
become
more
remote,
fluent
it
becomes
a
bitter,
better
business
atmosphere
for
us
to
operate
in
a
great
example
of
this
is
dropbox,
so
we
collaborated
closely
with
dropbox
as
they
were,
making
their
virtual
first
transition
and
when
their
early
handbook
went
live.
There
was
a
section
on
there
about
declining
meetings.
B
In
favor
of
asynchronous
workflows,
it
was
a
very
simple
section
where
they
gave
copy
and
pastable
sentences
so
that
anyone
in
dropbox
could
share
it
with
anyone
else
in
dropbox
for
a
non-awkward
way
to
decline,
a
meeting
and
force
a
new
way
of
working.
I
thought
this
was
brilliant
because
it
takes
away
that
junior
seniority,
awkward
complex
and
it
just
makes
it
formalized
it's
converting
tacit
to
explicit.
So
we
were
able
to
add
that
to
the
gitlab
handbook,
and
so
now
there's
a
citation
for
dropbox's
handbook,
making
gitlab's
handbook
better.
A
We
each
have
our
own
niche
and
people
record
clients
recognize
that
they
know
who
to
go
to,
and
you
know
if
they
want
like
more
clean
language,
they'll
pick
judy
and
if
they
want
more
podcasting
they'll
pick
pilar,
you
know.
So
it's
so
you
know
it.
I.
I
can
see
that
philosophy
and
it's.
I
wish
there
were
more
of
that
in
the
world.
I
must
well.
B
The
truth
is
strategy
is
easy
to
write
down,
but
it's
in
the
execution
of
it,
the
nuance
of
it
that
really
makes
us
human.
So,
even
though
two
things
can
be
alike,
two
restaurants
that
serve
the
same
kind
of
food,
there
will
be
nuances
to
it.
The
wait
staff
does
things
a
bit
differently,
whoever
chooses
the
spotify
playlist
might
do
things
a
bit
differently.
The
ambiance
is
a
bit
different.
B
These
are
the
the
nuances,
the
fabric
of
what
makes
us
human
and
so
the
more
that
we
share
the
more
that
we're
able
to
get
inspiration
from
each
other
and,
if
we've
seen
anything,
the
remote
community
needs
to
band
together.
At
a
moment
like
this,
the
world
needs
guidance
and
the
truth
is
we're
all
more
alike
than
we
are
unalike.
There's
this
wide
spectrum
of
remote
from
completely
co-located
to
all
remote
and
everything
in
between,
and
although
we
could
pick
apart,
what
works
for
which
industry
or
which
works
for
what
leader.
B
A
Love
it
indeed,
there's
enough
for
everybody,
and
this
whole
winner
takes
all
thing
is
one
of
those
outdated.
I
feel
like
it's
just
an
outdated
concept
like
there's
enough
for
everybody.
So
let's,
let's
do
that
we're
running
out
of
time.
I've
got
so
many
questions,
but
I
do
need
to
talk
about
hybrid.
That
is
the
you
know
the
word
du
jour
of
the
day
of
like
companies
saying
well,
we
want
to
give
people
a
choice
and
actually,
I
kind
of
like
you
know,
hybrid.
A
I
actually
really
like
the
freedom
to
choose,
because
there
are
many
people
out
there
that
hate
working
from
home
or
don't
like
working
from
home
or
don't
like
working
in
a
co-working
space.
They
want
to
go
to
the
office.
They
want
to
be
in
a
place
every
day,
for
whatever
reason,
my
husband
is
amongst
this
group
of
people
like
hates
working
at
home
and
loves
his
office,
and
sometimes
he
has
colleagues
and
sometimes
not,
but
you
know
it's
a
place
for
him
to
go
so
hybrid
seems
to
be
the
future,
because
the
future
is
choice.
A
What,
however,
hybrid,
is
the
most
difficult
style
hands
down?
We
all
know
this
because
it's
like
herding
cats,
you've
got
people
all
over
now,
some
in
person
and
those
in
person
relationships
and
interactions,
they're
just
really
powerful
compared
to
remote.
What
advice
do
you
have
for
people
going
hybrid?
Is
it
just
like?
Don't
do
it?
No
I'm
kidding.
But
what
tips
can
you
give
companies.
B
On
the
surface,
hybrid
looks
like
it's
the
best
of
both
worlds,
but
without
incredible
intentionality.
It
quickly
devolves
into
the
worst
of
both
both
worlds
right
and
the
truth
behind
that
is
that
there's
actually
no
such
thing
as
hybrid
a
company
is
either
remote
first
or
office
first,
and
the
reason
I
bring
this
up
is
that
the
global
conversation
around
hybrid
is
fixated
on
where
people
are
physically
located,
which
is
an
incredibly
misguided
conversation.
B
It's
really
about
how
work
gets
done,
and
so
here's
how
you
can
change
the
way
you
think
about
this
audit,
every
single
workflow
in
your
organization
and
ask
yourself:
can
this
work
without
the
office
as
a
crutch?
If
you
whiteboard
on
a
physical
whiteboard
that
is
not
connected
to
the
internet,
you
are
whiteboarding
office
first
and
the
moment
that
anyone
isn't
in
the
office.
The
entire
thing
falls
apart.
This
is
a
risk
you
need
to
address
this.
B
There
are
actually
companies
that
I'm
familiar
with
that
have
an
on-site
component
as
in
a
subset
of
their
entire
employee
base,
cannot
work
remotely,
they
manufacture
things,
they
make
things,
but
they
are
still
pivoting
to
remote.
First,
what
this
means
is
that,
although
there
are
some
people
who
will
have
to
go
into
a
facility,
the
way
that
they
work
is
going
to
be
remote
first,
they
are
going
to
collaborate
and
communicate
on
a
digital
platform
so
that
their
life
gets
easier.
B
The
conversation
is
much
much
less
about
where
people
are
much
more
about
how
work
gets
done,
and
I
also
want
to
mention
this
about
work
from
home
versus
the
office.
Most
companies
assume
there
are
only
two
places
to
work
your
home
or
the
office.
That
is
not
true.
There
is
this
vast
third
space
in
between
communal
work,
centers
like
switch
yards
and
cody.
B
You
have
your
conventional
co-working
places
like
wework,
and
then
there
are
actual
offices
that
are
white
label
unbranded
that
you
can
rent
on
a
daily
or
weekly
or
monthly
basis,
the
most
inclusive
way
for
companies
to
approach.
This
is
to
allow
people
to
submit
expense
reports
for
their
external
office
usage.
B
First,
the
other
half
is
working
remote
first
and
they
begin
to
resent
each
other.
This
is
the
classic
dysfunctional
breeding
that
happens
and,
of
course,
if
proximity
bias
creeps
in
where
the
people
who
are
in
the
office
more
get
seen
more,
they
get
praised
and
promoted
more
it
completely
ostracizes
the
other
part
of
your
workforce
and
again
this
is
a
massive
risk.
If
this
lingers
long
enough,
it
will
begin
to
show
in
pla
places
like
glassdoor.
It
will
impact
talent,
branding,
acquisition
and
retention.
A
And
it's
a
brilliant
way
to
say:
we
need
to
pivot
to
remote
first
instead
of
being
office
first,
because
if
location
is
a
factor
regardless
of
which
location
home
office
co-working
whatever
it
is,
then
you're
taking
a
risk.
I
like
how
you
put
this
you're,
really
just
taking
a
risk
all
right.
Oh
man,
I
want
to
dive
into
async
and
and
a
bunch
of
things,
but
let's,
let's
end
on
a
fun
note,
so
your
guinness
world
record.
This
is
amazing.
B
I
did
not
set
out
to
earn
a
guinness
world
record,
but
for
context
I
was
working
at
a
consumer
technology.
Publication
called
engadget
and
achieved
a
world
record,
I'm
the
planet's
most
prolific
professional
blogger.
So
at
the
time
that
the
award
was
bestowed,
it
was
over
a
four
year
span.
I
wrote
over
17
000
articles
and
six
million
words,
so
this
averaged
out
to
an
article
being
published
every
two
hours,
24
7
365
for
four
consecutive
years,
which
is
a
lot
so
now
it's
up
to
over
25
000
articles
across
the
web.
B
Over
10
million
words.
The
record
still
stands.
So
here's
how
it
came
to
be
when
I
joined
engadget.
It
was
a
globally
distributed
news
organization
and
it
was
my
first
foray
into
all
remote
and
I
immediately
saw
the
value
and
the
efficiency
and
having
people
in
six
continents
able
to
contribute
to
a
24
7
news
cycle.
B
We
were
incredibly
fast
and
incredibly
efficient
and
when
I
became
managing
editor,
I
realized
that,
as
I
was
hiring
and
onboarding
people,
I
was
answering
the
same
questions
over
and
over
again,
so
I
started
writing
them
down
in
a
very
rudimentary
company
wiki
these
days.
We
would
call
it
a
gitlab
handbook,
but
in
those
days
it
was
a
simple
wiki.
So
when
someone
would
join
the
company
a
week
prior,
I
would
send
them
the
entire
engadget
wiki
and
say
read
all
of
this.
This
will
get
you
95
of
the
way
to
being
a
great
editor.
B
Read
all
of
this
invest
time
and
reading
it
ingest
it.
Let
me
know
what
questions
you
have
and
then
every
question
that
wasn't
already
in
the
wiki
simply
made
the
wiki
better.
I
would
go
in
and
add
that
so
that
each
successive
hire
had
a
more
emboldened
and
bolstered
onboarding
process
and
that's
where
it
all
started
with
me
and
that's
really
where
I
fell
in
love
with
the
efficiencies
around
remote
work
and
largely
because
of
those
efficiencies.
I
was
able
to
write
really
fast,
I'm
a
natural
storyteller.
I
love
it.
I
found
my
passion.
B
I
worked
with
an
all-remote
team
that
was
incredibly
efficient
and
empowered
me
to
be
very,
very
quick
at
that,
and
also
it
was
the
golden
era
of
consumer
technology.
Some
of
us
remember
when
the
original
iphone
came
out.
Everything
changed.
Consumer
tech
went
from
something
that
was
relevant
to
a
relatively
small
demographic,
too
relevant
to
everyone,
and
that
cultural
explosion
was
amazing
to
be
a
part
of.
A
Totally
we're
really
in
the
next
revolution
of
work,
which
is
very
exciting.
You
know
we
hear
like.
Oh,
it
was
the
industrial
revolution.
I
don't
know
what
this
one's
called,
but
it
is
a
it
is
it's
blowing
things
apart,
so
is.
Is
your
prolific
writing
also
part
of
the
reason
why
the
handbook
is
13,
000
pages?
Is
that
your
fault?
A
B
Funny
you
mentioned
that,
but
I
will
say
yes
in
just
over
a
year,
I
contributed
100
000
words
just
to
the
remote
portion
of
the
get
lab
handbook
and
the
remote
playbook.
If
you
go
to
allremote.info,
you
can
download
the
remote
playbook,
it's
a
beautiful
pdf
engineered
by
our
design
team.
It
takes
those
hundred
thousand
words
and
distills
them
down
into
something
that's
easily
readable.
A
Amazing
I'll
also
put
a
link
in
the
show
notes,
so
that
people
can
just
find
it
really
quickly.
So
a
couple
of
just
quick
questions.
So
in
terms
of
all
this
writing,
how
do
you
find
time
for
deep
work
right
because,
clearly,
with
writing,
you
need
to
be
thinking
and
writing,
and
so
and
a
lot
of
people
are
really
tied
to
their
inboxes
or
tied
to
like
the
messaging
going
back
and
forth.
What's
your
secret
for
for
deep
work.
B
Ruthlessly
take
control
of
your
day
if
your
meetings
are
overtaking
your
life
and
you
just
give
people
carte
blanche,
permission
to
just
railroad
your
day
with
meetings,
you
will
never
get
deep
work
done,
there's
no
life
hack
or
secret
to
it.
It
just
comes
down
to
minutes.
In
a
day,
I
ruthlessly
block
my
calendar
for
deep
focus
time
and
sure
I
miss
out
on
some
things,
but,
as
my
friend
john
fitch
would
say,
look
at
it
from
a
jomo
perspective.
B
B
Or
epiphany
there
just
be
ruthless
about
it
and
try
to
foster
a
culture
and
psychological
safety
where
other
people
can
do
this
as
well.
We
all
have
real
lives.
We
all
have
real
work,
that
we
need
to
get
done
and
if
you
are
managing
your
day
by
your
calendar,
then
that's
where
the
blocks
have
to
be,
and
you
have
to
honor
them,
even
when
it's
not
easy.
A
A
Okay,
they're,
not
just
we've
all
lived
through
the
pandemic,
but
like
we're
coming
out
of
the
pandemic
and,
like,
I
would
say,
just
getting
started
from
this
vantage
point
of
becoming
remote
first
instead
of
office.
First,
where
do
you
advise
people
to
start
after
reading
the
handbook
that
you've
written.
B
Yeah
for
leaders,
I
would
say,
check
out
workforce.
This
is
an
amazing
publication.
They
have
an
entire
playbooks
section
where
they
have
distilled
down
playbooks
from
all
of
the
world's
open
source
companies,
gitlab
included.
So
after
you've
read
get
labs,
read
everyone
else's.
There
is
a
ton
of
information
from
companies
who
have
done
this
before,
oh
and
by
the
way,
make
sure
you
hire
a
head
of
remote
or
designate
someone
in
your
company
to
manage
this
full
time.
If
you
want
this
translation
transition
to
work
well,
it
needs
to
be
someone's
full-time
job.
B
This
is
a
massive
massive
deal
on
the
employee
side.
I
would
say
challenge
every
preconceived
notion
you've
ever
had
is
where
you're
living,
where
you
actually
want
to
live.
Do
you
want
to
optimize
your
life
for
better
access
to
a
medical
center
to
nature,
to
better
air
quality
to
home
wherever
home
is
to
a
community
that
matters
to
you?
You
really
start
to
appreciate
remote
when
you
decouple
where
you
live.
B
So
if
you're,
just
working
from
home
in
the
same
city
that
you
moved
to
to
be
able
to
commute
to
an
office,
you
really
aren't
taking
advantage
of
it
start
picking
up
an
atlas,
look
around
the
world
and
see
if
there's
a
place
that
would
better
inspire
you
to
wake
up
every
day.
Start
there.
It's
a
it's
a
fun
process
to
journal.
A
So
you
really
can
live
the
remote
dream,
it's
it
is
really
possible
and
you
gotta
read
that
darren's
book
living
the
remote
dream
all
right
so
last
question
super
easy,
easy
one,
which
is.
If
people
want
to
learn
more
about
you,
what's
the
best
place
to
go
on
the
internet?
Is
it
twitter?
Is
it
linkedin?
Is
it
gitlab
where,
where
should
people
go.