►
Description
Luke (Founder, Friday) and Darren (Head of Remote, GitLab) discuss a variety of topics related to remote work, and the societal/cultural shifts that we'll see following COVID-19.
As more companies become suddenly remote, thrust into a work-from-home environment for the first time, there are natural questions related to process, culture, leadership, and tools.
Topics discussed include:
➞ The phases of remote adaptation
➞ Moving a company from stabilization to intentionality
➞ Why wikis don't scale
➞ The importance of working handbook-first, and how GitLab maintains a living, evolving handbook
➞ The cultural shift to managing a remote team
➞ Our predictions on how society changes in 6-12 months due to COVID-19's impact on the global remote work embrace
###
➞ Learn more about Friday: https://www.friday.app/
➞ GitLab's Suddenly Remote Handbook: https://handbook.brownfield.dev/
➞ All of GitLab's guide to remote work: http://allremote.info/
➞ GitLab's values and sub-values: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/
➞ Remote work emergency plan: What to do (and where to start): https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/remote-work-emergency-plan/
➞ GitLab's approach to handbook-first documentation: https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/handbook-first-documentation/
➞ What not to do when implementing remote: don't replicate the in-office experience remotely: https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/what-not-to-do/
➞ How to use forcing functions to work remote-first: https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/how-to-work-remote-first/
A
This
is
Darrin
head
of
remote
at
gate,
lab
the
world's
largest
all
remote
company,
and
today,
I've
got
Luke
joining
me.
Has
some
really
interesting
questions
on
the
phases
of
remote
adaptation
and
what
the
world
is
gonna.
Look
like
six
to
twelve
months
from
now,
so
I'm
excited
to
dig
in
Luke
thanks
so
much
for
joining
me.
Yeah.
B
Thanks
Darrin
really
excited
to
have
this
conversation
a
little
bit
about
me.
I'm,
the
founder
of
Friday
I've
worked
remotely
for
six
or
seven
years
at
this
point
for
a
few
different
companies
and
we've
built
software
to
help
you
create
process
and
structure
to
the
way
that
you
communicate.
So
you
make
it
really
really
easy
to
share
regular
updates
about
what
you're
working
on
so
yeah.
With
that
being
said,
I'd
love
to
kind
of
kick
things
off.
You
mentioned
not
a
previous
call
that
we
were
both
on.
B
A
A
Of
unpacking
it
and
ended
up
writing
out
four
of
them
and
I
actually
think
there
may
be
more
than
four,
but
because
our
handbook
is
always
evolving.
I
may
actually
add
more
to
this,
as
we
discover
it,
but
I'll
start
here
with
phase
one
I'll
kind
of
go
over
the
four
phases
as
I
see
them
and
how
we
implement
them
and
live
them
and
get
lab,
and
if
you
have
any
questions
we
want
to
interrupt.
A
Let
me
know
so:
I
would
just
briefly
go
over
these
and
then
I'll
stop
the
screen
share
phase
one
is
skeuomorphism
at
a
high
level.
This
is
essentially
scrambling
to
press
copy
on
what
you
were
doing
in
the
office
and
pasting
it
virtually
so
you're.
Seeing
a
lot
of
suddenly
remote
companies
come
try
to
figure
out
phase,
one
which
is:
can
we
just
have
business
continuity?
Can
we
replicate
what
we
were
doing
in
the
office
in
a
virtual
way?
A
I
want
to
bring
up
the
whiteboarding
fixation,
and
that
is
a
big
deeper
as
well
phase
two
is
functional
and
it
starts
with
a
fundamental
question
of
what,
if
we
didn't
do
things,
the
way
we've
always
done
them,
and
so
this
is
a
majorly
powerful
question
to
ask
as
a
remote
teen,
because
it
insinuates
that
you've
moved
beyond
stabilization
and
now
you're,
giving
yourself
enough
time
to
pause
and
say:
wait
a
minute
we're
in
a
fundamentally
different
work
environment.
What,
if
there's
an
opportunity
here?
What
if
we
should
do
something
different
phase?
A
A
Then
phase
four
is
intentionality
and
we
go
and
eat
and
depth
on
this,
but
the
biggest
intentional
thing
I
can
think
of
as
a
company
I
actually
know
of
a
company.
That's
doing
this.
They
they
have
two
offices.
They
moved
all
200
of
their
company's
remote
due
to
Cove
in
nineteen
and
they're,
fully
shutting
one
office
down.
So
when
they're,
when
it's
all
said
and
done,
they're
gonna
end
up
with
about
80
seats
and
office,
one
and
then
they
have
a
hundred
and
twenty
people
that
no
longer
have
a
desk.
So
they
are
being
intentional.
A
They
have
no
choice
but
to
get
remote
right
because
there's
nowhere
for
their
employees
to
go
back
to
when
this
is
all
said
and
done.
I'll
touch
on
phase
one.
The
thing
I
see
very
very
often
is
for
suddenly
remote
companies.
They
just
try
to
take
a
previously
scheduled
boardroom
meeting.
Invite
the
exact
same
people
keep
the
same
time
and
everything,
but
just
make
it
a
zoom
meeting,
but
they
don't
do
anything
about
the
meeting
differently.
It's
passable,
but
it's
not
ideal,
so
how
you
would
evolve.
This
I
want
to
take
this
instance.
A
All
the
way
to
face
for
Phase
two
of
this
would
be
like:
okay,
wait,
a
minute
we
had
this
meeting
scheduled,
but
is
there
an
opportunity
to
do
something
differently?
Maybe
since
we're
already
using
Microsoft
teams
or
Google
Docs,
we
could
just
use
a
tool
that
we're
already
using
in
a
more
sophisticated
way.
So
how
about
for
our
virtual
meetings?
We
append
a
Google
Doc
agenda
to
each
calendar,
invite
and
that
way
we
improve
our
meeting
hygiene.
A
So
when
we
have
the
zoom
call,
people
could
already
add
their
input
ahead
of
the
meeting
and
because
the
names
are
listed
out,
no
one
speaks
on
top
of
each
other,
because
we
just
followed
the
doc
and
as
people
ask
things,
and
then
things
are
answered.
Someone
else
on
the
call
documents
and
at
the
end
of
the
call
you
have
this
nice
package,
take
away
that,
even
if
people
weren't
in
the
meeting
they
now
have
this
document
Phase.
A
Three
of
that
would
be
moving
more
asynchronous,
which
is
establish
the
meeting
so
far
in
advance
that
you
actually
could
share
that
agenda
doc
around
with
the
team,
and
even
if
people
can't
be
on
the
call,
but
they
had
a
question.
They
can
write
it
down
a
day
or
even
an
hour
in
advance.
How
someone
else
on
the
call
verbalize
it
and
document
the
takeaway,
and
they
don't
even
have
to
be
in
the
meeting
to
take
part
in
the
meeting
and
contribute
to
the
meeting
that
would
be
phase
three
phase.
A
Four
is
fully
intentional,
where
you
would
say
we're
gonna
implement
a
tool
or
a
process
where
we
don't
even
have
to
have
meetings.
We
are
actually
deliberately
implementing
a
workflow
that
removes
the
need
for
almost
all
meetings,
so
it
get
lab.
We
do
all
of
our
work
and
get
lab
issue
or
merge
request,
and
this
is
how
we
avoid
a
lot
of
meetings,
because,
instead
of
laying
out
an
idea
in
a
meeting,
we
will
lay
an
idea
out
in
a
get
lab
issue
in
a
public
issue,
we'll
share
it
around
with
the
team.
A
Anyone
in
the
company
can
add
feedback
or
comments
or
whatever,
and
you
have
this
nice
threaded,
documented
low
context,
high
precision
piece
of
information
where
you
plugged
all
knowledge
leaks
because
in
meetings,
knowledge
just
leaks
out
of
every
pore.
No
one
documents,
anything
it's
in
one
ear
out
the
other
you're
trying
to
focus
on
what
time
is
it?
It's
meetings
are
a
disaster
so
now
we're
being
intentional
about
focusing
on
the
result
that
we
wanted
to
get
out
of
the
meeting,
not
the
medium,
which
is
the
meeting,
and
this
goes
back
to
the
whiteboarding
fixation.
A
Where
I
oftentimes
hear.
How
do
you
replicate
whiteboarding
in
a
virtual
setting,
and
my
response
is:
don't
try
to
do
that,
you're,
focusing
on
the
medium
stop
trying
to
replicate
the
whiteboard
focus
on
what
you
got
out
of
the
whiteboarding
session.
Did
you
wide
word
for
the
sake
of
whiteboarding
highly
unlikely?
You
wanted
a
result.
So
is
there
any
set
of
tools
or
processes
that
you
can
put
in
place
to
get
to
the
result
and
stop
focusing
on
the
medium
so
how's
that
phase
1
through
4
any
question.
B
That
super
a
few
kind
of
thoughts
as
as
I
kind
of
been
thinking
about
it.
The
one
thing
I
talk
about
a
bit
is
like
when
you're
in
the
office.
At
least
this
is
my
view.
80%
of
your
communication
is
done,
synchronously
and
call
it
20%.
It's
done,
asynchronously
and
remote
from
my
perspective,
based
on
my
kind
of
past,
if
you
can
get
to
the
exact
opposite,
that
is
a
really
really
great
outcome
and
so
like,
as
I,
think
about
the
phases
of
a
deputation.
B
It's
almost
like
a
well
first
of
all,
a
it's
a
it's
an
exercise
in
behavior
change
at
scale,
depending
on
how
big
your
company
is,
but
B,
it
seems
like
what
you're
doing
is
you're
really
shifting
the
burden
of
communication
more
and
more
to
RIT
or
asynchronous
communication.
Because
of
all
the
reasons
you
mentioned,
meetings
are
expensive.
It's
difficult
to
coordinate
a
bunch
of
people
in
one
room
and
also
you
know
the
more
the
way
I
think
about.
It
is
every
real-time
conversation.
B
You
have
creates
a
potential
bottleneck,
and
so,
if
you
can
do
most
of
it
asynchronously,
then
you
remove
a
lot
of
the
bottlenecks
and
so
for
us
internally.
I
have
one
regular
meeting
a
week
and
it's
because
yeah
I
mean
it's
taken
work,
but
we've
created
processes
to
the
way
that
we
communicate
and
share
updates
so
that
people
still
feel
aware
of
what's
going
on.
B
Even
you
know,
when
they're
in
a
different
time
zone,
so
I
really
like
that
and
I
think
that's
like
a
super
interesting
way
of
breaking
it
down,
because
yeah
I
mean
this
doesn't
happen
overnight.
Like
behavior
change
does
not
happen
in
three
days
and
so
I
really
like
how
you
think
about
that,
and
especially
as
it
pertains
to
really
you
know,
a
lot
of
people
are
still
stuck
in
phase
one.
We
can
discuss
this
more
later,
but
it
seems
like
this.
You
know.
B
Kovan
19
is
really
forcing
people
to
think
and
it
feels
like
they're
on
level
one
they're
thinking
about
going
to
level
two
we'll
discuss
that
more
later
in
at
the
towards
the
end,
but
yeah,
that's
a
that's
a
wonderful
kind
of
way
of
thinking
about
you
know.
A
company
adapts
I've.
Seen
that
happen
firsthand
the
best
places
I've
worked
kind
of
figured
that
out
and
the
places
that
didn't
make
remote
work
work
that
well
we're
still
cut
stuck
on
like
phase
one
really
yeah
and.
A
The
reason
I
think
it's
important
to
break
it
down
into
phases
is
also
so
that
it's
just
not
super
overwhelming
for
a
suddenly
remote
company.
A
lot
of
them
are
trying
to
go
from
zero
to
mastery
zero
to
phase
four
in
the
course
of
a
day
or
a
week,
and
it's
simply
not
possible.
So
it's
an
impossible
burden,
and
so
my
recommendation
has
been
don't
worry
about
that.
A
Get
yourself
stabilized
in
phase
one
and
then
figure
out
the
sustainable,
healthy
approach
to
getting
the
phase
two
and
then
celebrate
that
and
then
iterate
a
little
bit
more
get
comfortable
with
that
and
then
go
to
phase
three
celebrate
that
and
before
you
know
it
three
six
months
down
the
road
you'll
be
well
along
the
path
to
getting
to
phase
four,
so
don't
expect
it
to
just
happen
overnight,
focus
on
getting
each
phase
right.
The
other
thing
you
noted,
of
shifting
the
burden
to
documentation.
A
A
This
is
that
very
important
in
conversations
I've
had
on
how
do
you
onboard
people
remotely
sometimes
one
of
30
or
40
people
joined
gitlab
in
a
week
if
we
had
to
if
we
had
to
have
a
human
walk
beside
them
every
step
of
the
way,
so
they
learned
through
osmosis
and
shadowing,
we
would
need
30
to
40
individuals
to
one-on-one
with
them.
It's
impossible
to
scale
and
again
tons
of
knowledge
get
leaks.
What
happened
in
that?
So
we
shipped
all
all
that
we
can
into
documentation.
Everyone
gets
a
get
on
issue.
A
There's
200
check
boxes,
maybe
more
by
now
of
what
to
read
in
what
week
on
what
day,
and
then
we
pair
that
with
an
onboarding
buddy
someone
that's
in
the
company
that
can
serve
as
their
mentor
to
help
guide
them
and
connect
the
dots
if
the
documentation
fails
and
Way,
but
in
general
just
shifting
burdens
from
humans
to
documentation
it
lets.
You
know
that
you're
on
the
right
path,
I
think
the
more
that
you
shift
to
documentation
the
further
along
the
remote
phase.
Adaptation
you'll
go
yeah.
B
And
speaking
of
that,
I
think
maybe
this
is
a
good
segue
in
the
unpacking,
get
labs
handbook
and
how
that
process
works.
But
a
few
quick
notes,
you
know
what
I
kind
of
see
out
in
the
market
is
what
I
think
makes
you
all
so
unique
is
clearly
the
the
magnitude
in
which
your
company
is
operating
at
you
know,
thousand
plus
people,
but
also
the
way
that
you
so
kind
of
how
I
think
about
it
is
a
lot
of
people
are
using
wiki's
right
now.
B
A
One
of
my
favorite
topics
so
I'm
sharing
a
screen
now,
which
is
a
handbook
section
on
handbook,
first
documentation
and
we're
careful
to
not
just
blindly
recommend
documentation,
because
documentation
without
structure
is
just
chaos.
So
we
say
you
need
to
implement
a
culture
where
you
work
handbook.
First,
as
in,
if
a
process
is
going
to
change,
you
have
to
document
the
change
in
the
handbook
first
and
then
disseminate
and
communicate
out,
not
the
opposite,
which
is
catastrophic.
A
Lee
different
than
most
people
are
used
to
so
I've,
actually
spun
up
this
section
on
tools
for
building
a
hand
and
one
of
our
teammates
just
created
this
suddenly
remote
handbook
and
it's
essentially
a
stripped
down
version
of
get
lab
that
anyone
the
getting
started,
guide
and
I'll
link
this
in
the
show
notes.
You
just
create
a
github
account,
and
essentially
you
just
grab
this
code
and
it's
it
gets
you
started,
so
you
don't
have
a
blank
page
or
start
from
so
we
put
this
out
there,
we're
iterating
on
it
in
typical
MVC
fashion.
A
We
hope
that
a
more
polished
approach
down
the
road,
a
lot
of
people
as
you
mentioned,
use
a
wiki.
We
don't
think
that
wiki
scale
the
two
big
problems
with
a
wiki.
Are
this
there's
no
source
controller
version
control,
so
essentially
the
executives
are
the
only
one
that
change
it.
The
problem
with
that
is,
if
you
don't
empower
everyone
to
change
it,
then
you
don't
empower
everyone
to
read
it
or
care
about
it.
So
to
your
point,
maybe
the
executives
are
super
invested
in
it.
A
No
one
else
reads
it,
so
they
create
these
kind
of
like
black
market
gray,
market
channels
of
communication,
where
yeah
yeah
the
handbook
is
over
here,
but
this
is
like
how
things
actually
happen.
That's
what
will
happen
if
you
don't
empower
everyone
to
be
able
to
create
proposals
to
change
it
so
source
control
from
my
perspective
is,
is
essential
to
doing
a
handbook
right
and
the.
A
Creates
empowerment
and
autonomy
in
a
very
real
way,
so
I'll
give
you
an
example
of
how
this
actually
happened.
I
was
an
onboarding
buddy
with
someone
in
the
design
team.
A
couple
of
weeks
and
I
asked
them
how
onboarding
was
going,
and
she
said
going
great,
but
I
kind
of
missed
the
typical
new
hire
orientation.
A
Where
I
see
everyone
that
also
joined
the
company
in
a
given
week,
we
get
to
kind
of
roam
around
the
lobby,
commiserate
so
on
and
so
forth,
and
it
dawned
on
me
that
we
have
a
new
lab
or
a
slack
channel
where
everyone
in
a
given
week
is
announced
and
I
thought.
Well,
you
can
just
throw
out
your
zoom
link,
get
everybody
in
the
chat
like
it
for
the
first
hour
of
your
day,
the
last
hour
of
your
day
and
essentially
replicate
a
virtual
new
hire
orientation.
She
said
that
sounds
like
an
amazing
idea.
A
Thanks
for
asking
so
I
said
well,
we
should
add
that
as
something
that
the
onboarding
buddy
ask
the
other
person
as
part
of
the
process,
because
you
never
know
like
does
somebody
want
this
to
somebody,
not
it's
on
the
onboarding
buddy
to
ask
that
question.
So
we
worked
on
a
merger
quest
together
to
change
that
in
the
onboarding
buddy
responsibilities.
A
Add
that
as
a
question
that
the
onboarding
buddy
has
to
ask
the
new
hire
and
it
was
merged
by
the
people
group,
so
two
weeks
into
her
tenure
and
get
lab,
she
has
fundamentally
changed
how
we
do
onboarding.
That
is
incredibly
empowering
now
she's
fully
invested
in
the
handbook
she's
going
to
be
looking
at
the
handbook
every
day,
she's
gonna
consult
the
handbook
as
the
single
source
of
truth.
If
she
sees
something
that's
out
of
date,
she's
gonna
be
empowered
and
encouraged
to
change
it
or
find
the
right
person
that
can
help
change
it.
A
B
B
There's
not
really
a
series
of
logic
or
expert
like
there's
not
context
right
you
how
that,
like
cultural
artifacts,
we
came
to
be
and
if
you
use
source
control-
and
you
scope
things
with
a
handbook-
you
actually
they
can
look
back
and
can
see
the
decision-making
process
for
why
this
key
activity
matters
and
the
decision-making
process
that
went
into
that
I.
Just
to
me
that
feels
so
much
more
transparent
than
than
how
things
you
know,
kind
of
happens
when
you're
all
together
in
the
same
room.
It's.
A
Not
only
transparent,
it's
incredibly
liberating
and
it
just
makes
good
business
sense.
For
example,
I
joined
get
lab
years
after
it
was
founded,
but
I
can
go
to
the
git
history
of
our
values
page
and
see
literally
every
changed.
It
ever
happened
every
sub
value.
That
was
it.
What
was
the
merge
request?
What
was
the
context
around
it?
When
did
this
happen?
What
was
going
on
in
the
world
that
may
have
have
spurned
an
idea?
What
was
happening?
What
was
the
context?
A
This
is
really
important
when
it
comes
time
to
change
something
so,
for
example,
we
had
a
company
call
for
years
where
everyone
would
join
at
the
same
time
every
day
we
would
talk
about
promotions
and
bonuses
and
overall,
like
large
company
topics,
things
like
that,
and
it
got
to
a
point
where
it
just
didn't
scale.
We
just
saw
the
numbers
of
attendees
dwindling,
although
the
scale
of
our
company
was
rapidly
increasing,
and
so
we
had
to
say
look
where
did
this
come
from?
Where
did
this
idea
come
from?
A
What
was
the
impetus
behind
this,
because
that
context
will
help
us
evolve
this?
It
will
help
us
change
this
so
that
we
don't
like.
Maybe
we
do
just
let
it
decay
and
die
and
that's
a
deliberate
choice,
but
at
least
if
we
have
the
context
we
can
see
what
was
the
atmosphere
like
how
many
people
were
on
this
to
begin
with?
What
were
we
talking
about?
Have
things
changed
document
for
you?
A
You
mentioned
this
a
little
bit,
but
culture
is
what
you
document
and
in
a
remote
setting
it's
so
glaring,
because
in
a
co-located
space,
culture
can
just
be
the
aura
or
the
vibe
of
the
office,
which
is
really
the
loudest
voice
in
the
room
or
the
driving
persona,
and
if
this
person
is
like
out
on
vacation
or
having
a
bad
day
or
it
can
oscillate
based
on
mood
and
socioeconomic
factors,
that's
not
culture,
it's
very
dangerous
to
let
your
culture
be
defined
by
that.
So
our
culture
is
documented.
A
It's
what
we
write
down
it's
in
our
values.
This
is
how
we
treat
each
other.
This
is
how
we
treat
our
clients,
it's
all
written
down
and
if
it
is
incompatible
with
how
you
think
we
should
treat
people
going
forward,
then
we
change
it
in
the
handbook
first
and
then
we
start
the
actual
living
out
of
that
it
would.
A
It
would
be
very
difficult
for
me
to
go
back
to
a
place
now
where
there's
just
no
context
like
hey,
welcome
to
the
company
what
20
years
prior
no
one
knows
great,
like
what
an
awesome
start,
you're,
essentially
just
trying
to
absorb
whatever
is
happening.
The
week
you
joined
as
if
that's
any
sort
of
real
indicator
on
the
actual
culture
of
the
company,
so.
A
Start
now,
I
get
that
it's
overwhelming,
like
I
wish.
I
would
have
started
that
ten
years
ago.
But
what
there's
this
old
adage
about
planting
a
tree?
You
know
you
wish
you
would
have
planted
it
ten
years
ago,
but
the
next
best
time
is
right.
Now,
like
just
start
now,
and
then
you'll
at
least
have
some
infrastructure
going
forward.
It's.
B
Awesome
I,
maybe
this
is
related
to
what
one
of
your
co-workers
just
spun
up,
but
if
you
were
to
think
about
a
basic
call,
it
schema
for
a
handbook,
let's
say
for
either
a
new
startup
or
a
company
that
is
thinking
about
implementing
a
handbook.
What
would
you
recommend
the
schema
be?
It
seems
like
there's
kind
of
maybe
like
two
buckets.
One
is
just
guiding
principles
of
sorts.
Are
these
these
building
blocks,
and
then
you
have
department
or
functional
kind
of
yeah,
the
pages?
How
do
you?
A
I
would
start
with
three
things
in
this
order
document
your
values
first,
because
all
of
your
departmental
pages
that
come
after
that
need
to
map
back
to
that
Northstar,
so
values
first
and
don't
just
write
down
the
six
words
like
good
lab.
Has
six
core
values:
iteration
results
collaboration.
These
are
words
you've
heard
before
we
have
thousands
of
words
underneath
of
them.
These
sub
values
that
substantiate
how
do
you
live
this
value?
You
have
to
be
very
prescriptive
about
that,
so
that
would
be
the
phase
one.
What
I
would
do
first?
A
The
second
thing
I
would
build
on
the
handbook
is
communication,
a
full
Indian
guide
on
how
this
company
communicates.
Where
does
work
communication
happen?
Where
does
informal
communication
happen?
How
do
we
use
slack?
How
do
we
use
zoom?
How
do
we
communicate
externally?
You
have
to
be
very
prescriptive
about
this
very
intentional
about
this.
Gait
lab
expires,
our
slack
messages
after
90
days
deliberately,
so
that
no
work
or
ideation
happens
in
slack,
because
slack
is
a
recipe
for
disaster
trying
to
get
projects
done.
All
information
is
siloed.
Some
things
are
indirect
messages.
A
The
communications
section
of
our
handbook
do
not
do
work,
do
not
communicate
about
work
in
slack
because
it
will
vanish
after
90
days.
Communicate
about
work
in
this
tool
called
get
lab
for
every
company
is
going
to
be
different,
but
be
prescriptive
about
it.
So
that's
the
second
thing.
The
third
thing
is:
each
department
should
spin
up
their
own
section
of
the
handbook,
so
we
have
a
corporate
marketing
section.
A
A
The
reason
why
you
want
the
communication
and
the
values
done
first
is
because,
as
your
department
leads
build
out
their
sections
of
the
handbook,
you
want
all
of
them,
looking
back
at
the
same
Northstar
as
they
document
their
processes
and
protocols,
so
that
at
the
end
of
it,
when
it's
done
and
by
the
way
it's
never
done,
it's
always
evolving.
It's
always
iterating.
You
can
look
across
each
department
and
say:
hey
I
get
it.
These
processes
were
based
on
the
same
values
as
every
other
part
of
the
company.
B
B
It
got
it.
That's
super
helpful
cool.
The
third
kind
of
topic
of
discussion
like
to
cover
is
I've
heard
this
quite
a
bit,
especially
you
know,
with
everybody
cooped
up
at
home,
but
it's
the
idea
of
social
interaction
and
and
then
also
the
future.
You
know
what
the
next
year,
so
it
looks
like
I,
guess,
I'll
kind
of
quickly
outline
where
I'm
at
the
first
thing
I
always
say,
is
well.
These
are
clearly
not.
B
This
is
not
your
average
remote
work
experience
that's
right,
and
the
second
is
that
you
know
people
talk
about
social
interaction
and
they
say
something
like
well.
I'm,
extroverted
and
I
really
like
to
be
around
people
which
I'm
extroverted
I,
really
like
being
around
people
as
well,
and
how
I
would
respond
is
just
essentially
saying
hey.
My
social
interaction
doesn't
have
to
happen
with
my
co-workers,
necessarily
and
I.
B
Think
that,
for
me,
that's
a
huge
point
of
difference
because
I
still
go
out
and
in
a
non
kovat
world,
I'm
I'll
have
coffee
with
people
in
the
community
or
I'll.
Try
to
like
hang
out
with
my
neighbors
a
little
bit
more
than
I
did
before.
How
do
you
think
about
that?
Maybe
like
what
in
in
a
normal
remote
work
scenario?
What
does
maybe,
like
your
personal
breakdown,
look
like
between
you
know,
get
lab
co-workers
as
well
as
outside
of
get
lab.
It's.
A
A
As
a
team,
great
example
is,
our
people
group
will
meet
with
our
individual
department,
leads
and
brainstorm
ways
that
they
can
create
that
so
our
marketing
team,
a
few
weeks
ago,
actually
had
an
all
marketing
talent
show-
and
this
was
very
simple-
to
create
a
people
group
put
a
calendar,
invite
on
the
entire
marketing
department
with
an
agenda
doc
that
says
sign
up
here.
If
you
have
a
town
we
arranged
for
a
few
judges,
we
have
ranged
for
a
few
prizes,
so
everyone
knows
you
could
sign
up.
A
Will
be
sent
out,
we
had
135
I,
think
people
on
a
zoom
call.
We
had
all
kinds
of
crazy
stuff
happening.
We
had
someone
doing
sign
language
with
their
dog.
We
had
someone
zooming
into
their
kitchen
and
like
cooking
fajitas
flames
going
everywhere.
It
was
crazy
and
there's
something
that
you
couldn't
actually
do
in
an
office.
So
I
think
that
opportunities
like
that
enable
you
to
build
even
more
authentic
and
genuine
bonds
with
people
in
a
remote
setting.
You
just
have
to
try.
You
have
to
think.
Okay,
we
all
have
zoom
cams.
A
We
don't
have
the
burden
of
the
office.
What
is
the
opportunity
here
same
thing?
In
slack,
we
create
topical
channels.
We
have
a
great
parenting
channel
where
parents
across
the
world
who
are
now
pulling
double-duty
as
home
school
teachers
can
communicate
about
resources
that
they
found
assets
that
they
found
websites
that
they've
found
tutorials.
That
they've
found
a
great
place
to
just
share
that
commiserate
and
just
share
honest
war
stories
of
like
hey.
Does
anyone
else's
house
look
like
a
complete
mess,
any
tips
on
convincing
kids
to
actually
help
me
clean
up?
I
mean
these.
A
Are
the
conversations
that
we
have
as
colleagues
what
I
think
is
really
powerful?
So
that's
one
element
of
it
be
intentional:
don't
just
expect
spontaneity
and
fate
to
take
care
of
people
talking
to
each
other,
like
you
would
see
in
the
office,
because
it's
never
gonna
happen,
but
the
second
part
of
it
is
is
more
interesting,
and
you
touched
on
this
I've
heard
people
say
how
do
you
replicate?
Let's
go
get
drinks
or
dinner
after
work?
Let's
go
spend
a
few
hours
after
work
hanging
out
together,
so
I
can
fill
my
social
quota.
A
But
the
way
I
see
it
is
is
this
is
a
chance
to
pause
and
ask
yourself:
is
that
even
healthy
or
are
you
spending
an
unhealthy
amount
of
time
fully
fully
fully
invested
in
work
before
and
after
the
clock?
So
to
speak,
so,
for
me,
I
would
say:
look
at
other
avenues
to
fill
your
social
proto.
Are
you
spending
enough
time
with
your
family,
with
your
children,
with
your
spouse,
with
your
significant
other?
Are
you
calling
your
parents
or
cousins
or
uncles
enough?
Are
you
invested
in
your
community?
A
A
A
local
car
wash
anything
there's
so
much
going
on
and
we've
become
so
honed
in
on
connecting
our
own
identities
to
work
that
now.
That's
the
thing
we're
grappling
with
how
do
I
replace
that,
and
my
answer
is
somewhat
uncomfortable
with.
Maybe
you
should
replace
it
with
something
outside
of
work
so
to
more
personally
answer
your
question.
A
I
actually
try
to
disconnect
with
work
as
fast
as
I
can
I
try
to
be
really
efficient
and
effective
with
work
so
that
it
enables
more
time
for
life,
and
that's
one
of
the
benefits
of
the
get
lab
culture.
We
try
to
create
a
work
atmosphere
where
people
can
get
things
done
very
efficiently,
so
they
can
disconnect
as
quickly
as
possible.
A
We
try
to
measure
results
and
not
focus
on
how
many
hours
you've
spent
here,
because,
honestly,
it's
better
if
you
spend
more
hours
invested
in
things
outside
of
work
that
you
love,
because
that
helps
you
recharge
and
give
back
more
to
the
business.
It
just
makes
sense
so
I'm
very
interested
to
see
if
this
is
something
that's
gonna
be
localized
or
if
this
is
gonna
spread
a
bit
further,
but
I
think
it's
an
interesting
time
like
I
know
almost
an
awakening.
A
B
Really
really
good
point:
one
thing:
I've
been
kind
of
kicking
around
in
my
mind,
is
I
kind
of
think
about
like
how
more
and
more
communication
happens.
Online
remote
or
work
in
the
office
in
many
capacities
is
like
the
last
holdout
for
actual
in-person
interaction,
and
that
and
and
so
like
for
that
last
shoe
or
that
last
thing
to
drop
the
it's
almost
like
at
that
point,
you
actually
have
to
think
about
all
the
things
that
you're
doing
these
days
that
are
online
when
in
reality,
it's
like
you,
don't
know
your
neighbor
across
the
street.
B
B
Really
interesting
that
you
mentioned
that
it's
something
there's
there's
some
huge
implications
here
and
maybe
yeah
maybe
wrap
the
call
up.
Let's
talk
about,
maybe
what
the
next
six
months
and
one
year
unfolds
for.
You
know
remote
work
before
we
started
recording.
We
were
talking
about
how
you
know
it
feels
like
it's
accelerated
significantly.
What's
your
take
on
all
this
yeah.
A
I'm
really
optimistic
about
the
future
and
I
have
some
pretty
bold
predictions
and
I
hope
some
of
them
come
true,
I
think
in
six
months,
what
you're
gonna
see
is
you're
gonna,
have
tens
of
millions
of
people
kind
of
collectively
look
at
each
other
with
the
realization
that
the
myth
of
your
job
can't
be
done
from
anywhere
is
now
broken
and
we
all
know
it.
The
managers
know
it.
The
leaders
know
it.
The
executives
know
it.
Wall
Street
knows
that
everyone
knows
it.
A
B
A
For
the
last
three
to
four
months,
we
slept
better,
we
exercise
more.
We
saw
our
families
more.
We
were
more
efficient
and
effective
with
our
time
at
work.
We
spend
less
money
on
gas.
We
commute
it
less.
How
about
we
don't
go
back
to
the
office
as
the
default.
We
just
have
the
office
there
kind
of
a
special
occasion
where
I
think
this
is
gonna
flip.
The
notion
of
home
is
now
the
default.
The
office
is
the
exception,
whereas
precoded
it
was
exactly
the
opposite.
A
You
almost
needed
a
special
excuse
to
work
from
home
now,
I
think
you're,
you're
gonna
need
a
special
excuse
to
go
into
the
office
like
justify
the
time
you're
gonna
spend
commuting,
because
that
could
be
time
better
spent
either
working
or
doing
something
outside
of
work.
That
mental
shift
is
going
to
be
huge,
maybe
a
year
down
the
road
I
think.
The
second
order
of
this
is
when
you
have
the
people
already
in
that
mindset.
Silicon
Valley
is
a
great
example.
A
Then
their
lease
comes
up
for
renewal,
they're,
gonna,
look
down
and
say
I'm
spending
how
much
money
to
live
in
this
shoebox.
This
isn't
even
the
most
ideal
place
to
work,
so
how
about
I
think
about
going
somewhere
small
mid-sized
town
community,
where
I
can
actually
invest
in
the
community,
see
tangible
difference
in
the
community,
better
schools
for
my
children.
B
A
It's
unbelievable,
like
it's
it's
better
than
it's
been
in
years
and
years
and
years
just
because
people
have
paused
for
a
second,
so
I
think
even
the
major
urban
centers
would
benefit
from
this
there's
less
infrastructure
strain
on
their
subway
systems
and
public
services,
and
things
like
that.
My
hope
is
that
that
starts
to
happen,
coupled
with
people
having
an
introspective
look
on
how
tightly
should
my
vocation
and
identity
be
tied
together?
I
think
it's
a
great
moment
for
us
to
pause
and
remember
that
we're
humans
first
and
colleagues.
A
Second
and
I
think
this
is
gonna,
drag
out
long
enough,
that
it
won't
soon
be
forgotten,
I
think
if
this
happened
and
it
was
over
and
solved
really
really
quickly
we're
humans.
We
always
are
on
to
the
next
thing,
but
I
think
this
one's
gonna
linger
for
a
bit
and
I
hope
it
does,
because
it'll
serve
as
a
reminder
that
it's
a
tragedy
to
get
where
we
have
have
gotten.
But
this
is
our
chance
to
rally
around
ourselves
and
our
communities
as
as
humanity,
so
I
mean.
B
A
B
Know
that's
those
are
great
points.
I.
Think
I
read
a
recent
I
think
it
was
a
Gardner
report.
I
think
it
said
something
along
the
lines
of
75%
of
CFOs
are
looking
at
shifting
5%
of
their
workforce
or
more
remote,
which,
like
the
way
I
think
about
this
shift,
is
there's
a
few
things
from
my
perspective
that
play
the
first.
B
Is
you
know,
remote
work
has
been
a
topic
of
interest
for
a
while,
and
it's
been
growing,
but
in
many
ways
I
don't
want
to
call
it
a
nice
to
have,
but
it
was
something
that
people
with
leverage
could
do
right.
Where,
if
you
were
a
super
solid
engineer,
you
could
say
I'm
going
to
work
somewhere,
I
want,
and
it
seems
like
with
the
current
economic
climate.
It's
almost.
It
feels
more
like
it's
shifting
to
become
a
bit
more
of
a
must-have
due
to
cost
pressure
in
particular.
B
So
that's
one
thing
I've
been
following
pretty
closely
the
second
thing
that
I
find
interesting
as
well
as
I
think
there
will
be,
maybe
maybe
a
little
bit
more
polarization.
You'll
still
have
those
holdouts
where
they're
like
hey
the
office
is
the
best
just
think
of
how
unproductive
you
were
kind
of
ignoring
the
fact
that
you
know
your
kid
is
home
too,
but
I've
seen
a
few.
B
The
elephant
in
the
room
from
my
perspective
is
when
you
give
people
that,
like
month
and
a
half
or
so
or
however
long
this
lasts
to
work
remotely,
they
will
change
their
behavior.
It's
just
a
matter
of
time,
which
means
moving
from
ideally
level
one
to
level
two.
If
you
can
pull
it
off
and
then
to
zoom
out
even
a
little
bit
more,
which
very
much
falls
in
line
with
how
you're
thinking
I
grew
up
in
a
town
of
900
people
in
the
middle
of
nowhere.
B
A
B
You
know
it
seems
like
it's
worth:
there's
something
really
meaningful
there
to
create
a
work
environment
where
people
can
do
interesting
work,
no
matter
where
they
live,
and
so
my
hope
is
that
that
continues
to
happen
because
you
know
living
in
the
city
wasn't
for
me:
I
live
in
a
smaller
city
now
or
outside
of
it
I'd
like
to
be
able
to
work
even
a
bit
more
remotely
in
the
future.
Not
have
it.
You
know,
hurt
my
career
so
to
speak.
Yeah
yeah
completely.
A
Agree,
I
think
it's
gonna
help.
Everyone.
Businesses
realize
that
if
you
can
decouple
geography
with
business
results,
it
D
risks
your
business
all
the
way
around.
So
now
it's
starting
to
make
sense
even
from
the
business
front.
I
think
the
big
aha
moment
is
going
to
happen
when
you
see
CEO
sit
down
on
CNBC
and
they
have
to
justify
why
they
spent
what
they
did
in
a
given
quarter
on
real
estate.
Once
those
questions
start
popping
up
in
earnings
calls
and
that
becomes
the
hot
seat,
then
there's
there's
really
going
to
be
nowhere
to
go.
A
It's
like
you
know.
All
of
these.
Other
competitors
are
chopping,
the
real
estate
cost
and
empowering
people
to
live
and
work
from
anywhere.
Why
isn't
your
company
able
to
do
that?
That's
going
to
be
a
big,
forcing
function
from
the
business
in
point,
but
you're
right,
I
think
it's.
The
genie
has
been
let
out
of
the
bottle,
and
people
are
starting
to
understand.
Hey
running
a
business
through
micro
management,
command
and
control
of
fear
might
have
had
its
time.
Maybe
but
it's
it's
not
now,
and
you
can't
kind
of
let
go
of
the
reins.
A
A
little
bit
put
managers
in
place
that
will
lead
more
through
service
and
feedback
and
understanding
and
smaller
chunks
and
iterative
processes,
and
it
can
work
we're
all
collectively,
as
a
society
learning
a
fundamentally
new
way
to
work,
we're
doing
it
very
rapidly.
I
think
humanity
deserves
a
round
of
applause
for
adapting
as
fast
as
we
have,
even
in
some
optimal
situation
in
a
suboptimal
situation.
I'm
encouraged
for
the
future
man-
and
this
conversation
has
been
amazing.
I
think
we
should
do
a
round
two
yeah.