►
From YouTube: TT110: Competitive
Description
This is a Tanuki Tech session on 11/23/2020.
For more on Tanuki Tech, see here: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/marketing/revenue-marketing/sdr/tanuki-tech/
For more on the speaker, see here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-wang-0835b226/
A
So
before
we
start
today's
session,
today's
our
competitive
session,
we're
gonna,
be
focusing
on
our
four
biggest
competitors:
github
azure,
devops,
jenkins
and
jira,
and
I'd
like
to
just
start
off
this
session
by
asking
what
would
be
a
personal
win
for
you
in
this
next
hour.
So
it's
like.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
this
presentation
is
as
tailored
as
possible
for
y'all.
So
like
what
competitors?
Would
you
like
to
personally
like
to
learn
more
about
out
of
those
four.
B
Yeah
I
find
with
the
atlassian
tools
that
it's,
like
I
don't
know
easier
to
convince
them
to
come
to
gitlab
and
consolidate
everything
in
one
place
where,
like
get
like,
have
a
harder
time,
seeing
the
value
of
gitlab
versus
github.
C
B
A
Okay,
gotcha
all
right,
let's
dive
right
in
so
we'll
talk
about
the
four
competitors,
with
special
emphasis
on
and
azure
devops,
so
yeah.
What's
our
agenda,
our
agenda
today
is
to
win
more
competitive
situations.
A
So,
if,
let's
just
say
right
now
we're
flipping
20
of
opportunities,
I
want
to
see
what
I
can
do
to
make
sure
that
that's,
maybe
a
30
or
40
percent.
These
tools
that
we're
talking
about
are
ones
that
I
have
used
for
years.
I
used
github
for
about
seven
years.
I
used
jenkins
for
about
five
years.
A
We
actually,
as
a
company,
did
some
analysis
on
our
win
loss
record
against
these
competitors
and
then
what
we
found
is
that,
out
of
the
competitive
cases
versus
let's
say
github,
if
we
were
to
lead
with
motions
x,
y
and
z,
then
we
had
higher
conversion
rates,
so
there's
actually
one
guy
whose
full-time
job
is
to
just
like
comb
through
all
the
salesforce
data,
see
which
reasons
why
what
makes
us
more
likely
to
win
and
what
makes
us
less
likely
to
win,
and
so
we'll
talk
about
what
the
data
actually
shows.
A
A
So
I
got
inside
information
on
literally
what
they're
saying
to
sell
against
us
last
thing.
Is
we
got
to
talk
about
our
differentiators,
which
ones
are
the
most
important
which
ones?
If
we
say
x,
y
and
z,
it
really
gets
a
customer
to
start
thinking
about
their
situation
differently,
and
maybe
that
conversation
opens
up.
A
So
this
is
how
we
plan
on
winning
more
competitive
situations,
all
right.
So
just
to
recap,
we
all
know
this.
Github
does
a
lot
because
of
this
we
have
lots
of
competitors,
that's
one
of
the
things
that
can
be
a
little
bit
overwhelming
when
we
start
out
here,
but
what
we
find
out
very
quickly
is
that
it's
really
four
main
ones
that
come
up,
maybe
70
80
percent
of
the
time
right
and
these
ones
are
github.
A
This
used
to
be
my
old
laptop
when
I
was
at
red
hat
azure,
devops,
also
owned
by
microsoft,
jenkins,
we'll
talk
about
what
cloud
bs
is
in
a
bit,
but
cloudbees
is
basically
the
company
that
makes
money
off
of
jenkins
and
atlassian,
so
bitbucket
jira,
so
on
and
so
forth.
These
are
our
primary
four
competitors
and
these
are
the
ones
that
we're
going
to
be
targeting
today.
A
But
what
is
the
actual
environment
that
we're
in
right
now,
because
it's
important
to
understand
this,
because
this
is
what
our
customers
are
actually
seeing
right
and
so
to
take
a
look
at
this.
What
I
did
is
I
looked
into
a
bunch
of
different
metrics
that
are
objective
to
basically
see
who
are
the
dominant
players
and
who
are
the
challengers
in
each
like
for
different
reasons.
So
one
thing
that
I
took
a
look
at
is
like
product
capabilities.
A
A
So
this
is
one
of
the
things
that
we
win
by
is
just
what
we
can
do,
but
just
like
going
in
a
little
bit
more
one
of
the
things
that
I
did
is
look
at
the
number
of
job
postings
asked
for
each
tool,
so
I
looked
how
many
jobs
asked
for
github
how
many
jobs
asked
for
jenkins,
and
this
is
a
metric
that
can
be
used
to
tell
industry
demand
for
each
tool
right.
A
A
So
what
I
found
is
basically
this
out
of
the
number
of
job
postings
in
the
united
states.
Jira
and
jenkins
are
number
one
and
number
two.
They
are
by
far
more
than
everyone
else.
There
are
select
reasons
for
this,
but
the
number
one
takeaway
here
is
that
jenkins
is
by
far
our
most
common
competitor
and
understanding.
How
to
flip
jenkins
opportunities
is
one
of
the
things
that
is
really
going
to
lead
to
more
business,
just
because
there
are
so
many
of
them
out
there.
A
It
is
true
that
github
and
azure
devops,
we
see
them
in
our
accounts.
These
are
hard
fault
battles.
Sometimes
it
feels
like.
We
can't
even
have
a
conversation
if
they're
thinking
about
github,
but
most
of
the
market
is
actually
around
jenkins
right
now
and
jenkins
is
actually
one
of
the
ones
that
we
can
target
and
target
pretty
successfully.
A
So
that's
looking
at
careers.
The
reason
why
looking
at
careers
is
good
is
because
careers
tell
us
what
is
the
market
looking
for
in
the
next
one
to
two
years
right.
So,
if
we're
hiring
someone
for
jenkins,
we're
probably
going
to
use
jenkins
for
the
foreseeable
future,
let's
take
a
look
at
some
of
the
other
metrics.
A
So
what
I
looked
at
number
two
is
the
size
of
reddit
communities
and
the
reason
why
is
because
developers
love
reddit,
every
single
developer
that
I've
ever
talked
to
they
go
and
read
it
from
time
to
time
to
go
research
tools
and
talk
to
other
developers.
It's
just
for
whatever
reason
it's
reddit
has
become
a
tech
community,
especially
for
developers,
and
so
I
wanted
to
see
how
large
is
each
of
your
reddit
communities
right.
This
is
what
the
data
shows.
A
The
data
shows
that
over
here,
that
github
is
by
far
the
most
popular
on
reddit
and
part
of
the
reason.
Why
is
because
developers
they
just
love
github
and
we'll
take
a
little
bit
more
of
a
dive
into
that.
But
the
main
point
that
I
want
to
point
out
with
this
is
that
one
github's
by
far
number
one
but
all
of
a
sudden
another
story
emerges.
Git
lab
is
all
of
a
sudden
number
two
azure
devops
jenkins
and
jira
they're,
not
that
popular
and
the
reason.
A
Why
is
because
developers
don't
really
care
so
much
about
them?
They're,
not
exciting
they're,
not
new
they're,
not
trendy
people
don't
want
to
engage
and
talk
about
it.
We
have
spent
and
invested
a
lot
into
a
making
a
community-
that's
powerful
and
robust,
and
even
though
these
other
competitors
are
much
older
than
we
are,
we
already
have
larger
online
communities
than
many
of
our
competitors,
which
is
a
really
great
thing.
A
Last
thing
I
want
to
talk
about
is
a
third
party
product
ratings,
so
when
we
just
get
all
of
our
information
from
product
technical
marketing,
it
seems
like
gitlab
is
by
far
the
best
choice.
But
what
are
our
customers
actually
saying
about
us
from
our
ratings
perspective?
So
what
trust
radius
is?
This
is
a
third-party
website.
They
collect
data
and
survey
people.
How
much
do
you
like
jenkins?
Would
you
recommend
it
a
4.5
out
of
10,
maybe
a
5
out
of
10,
maybe
a
8
out
of
10..
This
is
what
it
shows.
A
So
the
data
shows
that
github
is
actually
number
one
over
all
of
the
competitors.
Gitlab
and
azure
devops
are
around
number
two
and
then
curiously
enough
jenkins
and
jira.
A
They
are
by
far
the
least
most
popular,
and
so
the
two
sources
that
we
looked
at
here
are
trustrasius
and
g2
they're,
basically
just
different
rating
sites,
but
the
story
emerges
that
github
is
by
far
the
most
liked
and
at
the
tail
end
is
jenkins
and
jira
was
any
of
this
data
surprising
to
you.
C
B
Yeah
initially,
it
showed
kind
of
jiren
jenkins
having
the
upper
hand
in
the
first
categories
of
our
implementation
and
the
job
roles,
and
then,
if
you
actually
start
looking
a
little
bit
deeper
behind,
potentially
what
yeah,
what
people
are
actually
interested
in?
It's
actually
not
that
so
the
conflicting
bits
of
information
is
interesting.
C
A
C
A
Were
you
surprised
to
see
any
of
the
things
that
we
showed
like
job
postings
besides
just
sort
of
like
customer
data
yeah
like.
B
Why
would
why
was
jira
and
jenkins
so
popular
for
the
job
side
of
it
and
then,
when
you
start
sort
of
looking
at
it,
people
aren't
interest.
You
know.
Why
do
you
think
that,
like
then,
when
you
look
at
the
community
smaller,
you
know
there's
not
as
many
people
that
are
interested
about
it,
but
when
you
go
to
jobs,
it's
a
lot.
Higher
seems
like
a
weird.
A
Yeah,
that
that
is
a
really
really
really
insightful
question
and
there's
actually
a
good
answer
for
it.
A
So
out
of,
I'm
just
want
to
circle
a
little
bit
back.
Jiro
was
made
around
15
20
years
ago.
Jenkins
was
also
made
around
15
20
years
ago,
and
so
what
ended
up
happening
is
that
they
were
the
first
tools.
That
really
did
you
know:
project
management
and
automation
with
jira,
and
so
because
of
that
they
just
gobbled
up
market
share
for
about
five
years.
They
were
the
only
tool
that
they
could
use,
and
so
those
people
who
are
managers
at
that
time
used
jira
used
jenkins
themselves,
set
it
up.
A
Now
they
moved
on
to
become
directors
and
senior
directors,
maybe
vps,
and
so
the
people
they're
the
people
that
are
in
charge
of
making
these
job
postings
and
so
they're
asking
for
the
same
stuff
that
they
used
and
are
familiar
with.
That's
why
jenkins
and
jira
is
as
high.
It
is
in
career
builder,
so
that
the
story
that
emerges
is
that
jenkins
and
jira
they're,
really
old
people.
B
B
A
C
In
a
lot
of
the
time,
because
isn't
there
a
problem
as
well
or
I'm
wondering
I
guess
the
question
in
regards
to-
I
guess
both
jira
and
jenkins,
in
the
sense
where
it's
like
it's
so
heavily
ingrained
in
the
company?
There's
so
much.
You
know
backlogged
years
of
data
on
it,
and
I
guess
they
assume
migration
is
quite
hard,
that
they
kind
of
are
just
stuck
with
it,
even
though
they
don't
necessarily
like
it.
A
That
is
the
case
with
jira
with
jenkins.
I
think
that
a
lot
of
people
would
be
really
grateful
to
migrate
to
something
that's
easier,
we'll
talk
about
it,
a
little
bit
more
in
the
jenkins
section,
but
jenkins
is
really
really
really
hard
to
use.
I
had
to
administer
my
jenkins
environment
for
about
five
years,
and
then
it
broke
literally,
probably
like
maybe
once
a
week
and
there's
a
lot
of
the
reasons
for
it.
So
yeah.
B
So
I
think
actually
at
the
beginning
of
the
call
you
asked
me
and
johan,
you
know
what
the
two
that
you'd
like
to
go
into
more
detail
on
and
I
said
github
and
he
said
azure,
devops
and-
and
I
think
actually
it's
interesting,
because
if
you
look
at
now
what
we've
discovered
and
the
reason
we
said
them,
I
think
it's
because,
like
jenkins
and
jira
are
easier
to
flip
to
gitlab,
which
is
why
we,
why
we
care
more
about
maybe
looking
at
azure,
devops
and
github,
because
and
this
data
kind
of
shows
that
that
people
care
less
about
it
and
and
their
older
tools
like
there's
been
so
many.
B
I
don't
know
johan,
but
yeah.
There's
there's
usually
some
kind
of
like
frustration
that
I
find
it's
like.
Oh
yeah.
I
really
want
to
get
off
the
jenkins
and
it'd
be
nice
to
have
everything
in
gitlab,
and
I
I
I
don't
really
like
using
jira
and
and
they're
almost
selling
it
to
themselves
where
the
people
that
I
speak
to
that
are
like
azure,
devops
or
github.
It's
it's
really
big.
You
have
to
it's
more
of
a
fight,
which
is
why
I
want
to
understand
more
about
how
yeah
we
can
flip
those
ones.
A
My
personal
opinion
of
this
is
that
jenkins
will
probably
dramatically
decrease
in
usage
over
the
next
five
to
ten
years,
so
in
jenkins,
stead
is
probably
going
to
be
a
number
of
different
tools
that
are
going
to
take
its
market
share
and
if
we
position
ourselves
to
be
one
of
those
to
take
up
this
huge
chunk,
then
that'd
be
a
really
great
opportunity
for
us.
I
think
that
this
is
why
we
so
like
our
marketing
campaign
jenkins
campaign
number
three,
that
we
just
kicked
off.
A
All
right
awesome,
so
let's
talk
about
some
of
the
findings
right
in
the
developer.
Community
github
is
by
far
the
incumbent.
They
have
over
42
million
registered
users
over
200
different
countries,
so
they
are
by
far
the
most
popular
among
developers.
I
used
to
be
a
developer.
I
loved
using
github.
It
was
the
reason
why
is
because
github
is
the
things
that
they
do,
while
it's
limited,
they
do
really
really
really
well,
and
it's
just
like
very
elegant
and
beautiful
website.
A
So
that's
part
of
the
reason
why
github
has
as
much
traction
as
it
does
within
developers
in
project
management.
So
what
I
mean
by
that
is
like
issues
milestones,
roadmap
stuff
like
that
jira
is
an
incumbent,
I'm
just
fast
forwarding.
A
little
bit.
Jira
has
estimated
around
53
percent
of
the
entire
project
management
market.
So
within
that
one
product,
category
they're
the
dominant
player.
By
far
and
in
product
ratings
we
already
took
a
look
but
github's
number
one
get
live
and
azure
devops
are
tied
for
number
two.
B
Right
yeah,
that's
a
super
quick
question
on
that
jira
of
being
53
percent
of
the
market
or
estimated.
Do
you
know
what
the
second
one
is
like
is
it?
Is
it
close
between
like
jira's,
got
53
and
then
the
person
that
whatever
the
company
is
before
that
is
like
30
40
percent
and
then
there's
just
a
load
of
little
companies,
or
is
it
literally
like
jira
and
then
just
loads
of
little
loads
of
little
companies
that
probably
have
about
five
percent
each
sort
of
thing?
Do
you
know
if
it's
like
that
or.
A
If
I
had
to
guess
number
two
is
probably
trello
and
the
funny
thing
is
that
atlassian
actually
bought
trello,
so
they
would
own
then
number
one
and
number
two,
if
I'm
right
about
that,
but
charlo
is
also
pretty
popular
after
that.
I
think
it's
a
steep
dive
off.
I
don't
foresee
anyone
having
more
than
10
market
share
outside
of
those
two
tools.
A
Yeah
all
right
so
diving
into
github.
This
is
one
that
we
see
in
our
accounts
all
the
time.
So
it's
the
biggest
threat
to
gitlab
and
management
knows
this.
The
good
news
with
this
is
that
our
management
is
really
smart
and
they've,
taken
a
lot
of
steps
to
basically
have
a
really
thought
out,
bought
up
battle
plan
with
microsoft,
and
so
let's
just
talk
about
a
little
bit
more
about
them,
so
they
have
a
huge
number
of
users
that
really
like
the
product.
A
I
used
to
be
one
of
these
users
and
let's
just
give
some
metrics
there's
this
thing
called
the
alexa
ranking
it's
basically
how
much
web
traffic
that
you
get
among
all
websites
in
the
entire
planet
and
out
of
this
global
rankings,
when
I
checked
github's,
alexa
ranking
was
number
86
globally,
so
their
top
100
gillab
in
retrospect
is
number
2614.
A
So
we
shouldn't
be
intimidated
by
this,
but
we
do
need
to
respect
it.
What
we're
looking
for
right
now
is
year
over
year
growth
and
we're
growing
around
70
to
80
percent
year
over
year,
so
we
are
catching
up
quickly,
but
we
do
need
to
understand
that
they
have
a
lot
of
adoption
and
another
part
of
the
reason.
Why
is
there's
a
huge
number
of
open
source
communities
that
live
on
github?
A
Well,
they
now
go
off
and
become
vps
of
other
companies
and
things
like
that
and
lead
engineers
and
they're
huge
advocates
for
the
platform
a
little
bit
more
about
his
history.
They
were
acquired
by
microsoft
in
2018
for
25
times
revenue,
so
we're
talking
about
around
8
billion
dollars,
so
a
huge,
astronomical
amount
of
money,
one
of
the
most
expensive
from
a
revenue
multiplier
acquisitions
in
all
of
tech
history.
A
Let's
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
some
of
the
things
that
we
just
talked
about,
and
the
story
that
I'm
trying
to
show
here
is
just
sort
of
like
if
you
think
about
like
a
traditional
business.
If
I
have
a
bunch
of
signs
around
my
town,
then
that's
gonna
increase
the
amount
of
traffic
for
my
business
right
and
in
the
new,
like
e-commerce
world
that
we
live
in
if
a
lot
of
websites
and
different
places
all
around
our
ecosystem
talk
about
one
thing:
it's
basically
like
a
billboard
for
that
tool.
A
Right,
and
so
one
of
the
things
I
want
to
talk
about
is
literally
all
over
the
developer
community
in
websites.
This
one
website
is
one
of
the
most
popular
websites
for
python.
A
What
you
can
see
over
here
under
the
project
links
is
a
it's
a
link
to
github
right,
so
it's
just
they're
very,
very,
very
visible,
there's
all
sorts
of
websites
that
link
to
their
platform,
and
all
of
this
means
that
they
have
huge,
just
like
they're,
very,
very
visible
in
terms
of
developer
resumes
I've
probably
looked
over
several
hundred
developer
resumes
in
my
life
when
I
was
interviewing
people
and
I'd
say
over
two-thirds
of
them
included
people's
links
to
their
github
address
and
the
reason
why
is
because
developers,
usually
they
post
our
github
username
because
that's
their
resume.
A
A
Another
thing
is
that
they're
problematic
for
enterprise
y'all
are
both
commercial
and
smb,
so
this
doesn't
affect
you
all
as
much,
but
if
you're
like
a
fortune
500
or
fortune
100
company
a
lot
of
the
time
you
want
to
work
with
other
established
brands.
Part
of
the
reason.
Why
is
because
it
could
be
for
political
reasoning.
Another
part
of
it
is
that
it's
just
way
simpler
to
talk
to
one
vendor
that
offers
30
different
things
than
to
talk
with
all
these
small
vendors.
A
That,
like
do
one
thing,
and
it
may
not
exist
in
two
years
right
so
for
these
large
businesses,
a
lot
of
the
time
they'll
just
buy,
like
20
of
their
entire
I.t,
spend
from
microsoft,
10
from
google,
so
on
and
so
forth,
and
then
the
other
thing
is
that
microsoft
already
has
pre-existing
relationships
with
all
enterprise
companies
simply
because
of
microsoft,
office
and
windows.
Server
right.
A
So
while
we
have
to
do
a
lot
of
work
to
get
meetings,
their
sales
people
already
have
regularly
occurring
meetings
with
c-level
and
vps
in
these
companies,
just
because
they're
microsoft
and
what
they
do
is
actually
we've
seen
this
in
the
last
six
to
12
months.
A
But
they're
doing
this
thing
called
an
enterprise
agreement,
and
what
that
is
is
the
idea
that,
like
let's
just
say
that
you
have
a
40
million
dollar
renewal
right,
they
basically
say:
hey,
I'm
gonna
go
throw
in
github
for
your
entire
developer
team
for
free
and
that's
going
to
be
one
of
the
things
I'm
going
to
throw
into
the
deal.
Well,
if
you're
getting
github
for
free,
then
all
of
a
sudden
they've,
just
locked
us
out
of
the
account
right,
so
it
can
be
really
hard
to
overcome
enterprise
agreements.
A
So
we
gotta
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
it
does
and
traditionally,
when
I
use
this,
it
only
did
two
things.
Once
again,
we
do
ten
things.
Our
biggest
differentiator
with
github
is
the
fact
that
we
do
so
much
more
than
them
and
the
two
things
that
they
do
is
version
control,
so
they
hold
their
code
and
issues,
and
so
the
story
behind
this
is
that
microsoft
comes
and
they
buy
github
right.
A
They
make
a
8
billion
investment
and
then
around
2018
2019
time
frame
get
lab,
starts
really
getting
a
lot
of
traction,
we're
growing,
80,
year-over-year
in
sales,
and
then
so
they
start
getting
a
little
bit
defensive
about
github.
They
realized
that
hey.
If
we
don't
do
something,
then
we're
going
to
lose
money
on
this
huge,
massive
financial
investment
that
we
just
made.
A
So
all
of
a
sudden,
they
started
investing
a
lot
more
into
github
to
basically
make
sure
that
they
had
competitor
competitive
differentiators
with
us,
and
so
all
that
is
to
say
is
that
they
started
increasing
the
number
of
features
and
capabilities.
That's
offered
with
the
product
because
of
competition,
primarily
from
us
they've
been
copying
our
roadmap
for
a
bit
literally.
In
this
right
hand,
image
right
over
here,
you
can
see
that,
like
the
roadmaps,
are
very,
very,
very
similar.
A
Whatever
we
put
out
a
lot
of
the
times,
you'll
see
the
exact
same
thing
on
the
roadmap
nine
months
to
12
months
later,
and
another
thing
is
that,
from
a
technological
perspective,
my
estimate
is
that
they're
about
one
year
behind
us,
but
they're,
making
up
ground
quickly.
Why?
Because,
if
microsoft
wants
to
put
enough
engineering
talent
into
this
thing,
they
have
so
much
money
resources,
capital
talent
than
it
is
within
their
ability
to
do
this.
The
big
big
benefit
for
us
is
that
microsoft
doesn't
actually
care
that
much
about
the
devops
space.
A
What
they
are
focused
on
winning
is
the
cloud
space
if
they
win
the
cloud
space
that
is
going
to
be
how
they
make
sure
that
they
are
a
dominant
tech
player
for
the
next
50
years.
Devops
for
them
is
almost
like
a
cherry
on
top.
It's
one
thing
that
they
care
about,
but
it's
not
like
the
dominant
thing
that
they're
going
after
so
it
is
true
that
they
could
catch
up
ground
quickly.
A
They
are
focusing
most
of
their
attention
from
an
engineering
perspective
against
amazon
cloud,
because
that's
how
they
make
the
most
money
is
in
the
public
cloud
space
all
right.
So,
let's,
let's
just
summarize
microsoft-
makes
a
big
financial
investment.
Gitlab
puts
pressure
on
them.
They
start
copying
our
road
map
they're
about
one
year
behind
us
from
a
product
perspective,
get
lab
strategy
right
now
is
to
basically
grab
as
many
accounts
as
it
can.
A
A
Yeah,
so
let's,
let's
dive
right
in
so
this
is
the
github
platform
over
here.
Does
this
look
pretty
similar
to
gitlab.
A
C
So
I
would
totally
copy
this.
It's
ridiculous.
A
Sorry,
yeah
they're,
very
similar,
I'd
actually
don't
know
who
came
up
with
issues
first,
they
could
have
actually
come
up
with
them
at
the
same
time,
but.
C
A
A
So
they're
very
similar
to
gitlab.
As
you
already
said,
it
looks
almost
the
exact
same
right
and
they
have
scm
and
issues.
We
just
literally
looked
at
those
two,
but
they've
started
putting
all
this
other
stuff
in
so
they
have
their
own
version
of
ci.
They
have
some
packaging
stuff.
They
have
some
deployment
and
release
functionality.
A
It's
not
as
good
as
ours,
and
the
community
understands
it's
not
as
good
as
ours
and
a
lot
of
developers
actually
know
the
ones
that
are
more
aware
of
the
environment.
They
know
that
they're
just
trying
to
copy
us,
so
that's
actually
understood
within
the
developer
community.
So
what
microsoft
did
is
actually
strategically
really
interesting.
A
A
So
maybe
what
we
can
do
is
we
can
leverage
the
open
source
community
to
actually
extend
github
itself
and
catch
up
our
product
for
us.
So,
as
opposed
to
microsoft,
hiring
a
bunch
of
engineers
and
making
github
better
what
they
did
is
they
made
the
ability
for
the
open
source
community
to
contribute
back
to
github
itself
and
to
catch
up
ground
quickly,
and
since
the
vast
majority
of
the
open
source
community
is
on
github,
they
were
pretty
successful
at
this.
So
what
they
did
is
they
made
it
extensible.
A
They
created
this
thing
called
github
marketplace,
and
so
what
this
is
is
it's
basically
one
portal
in
which
other
companies
open
source
contributors.
Anyone
can
just
make,
basically
it's
not
a
plug-in,
but
it's
pretty
close
to
a
plug-in.
Other
people
can
extend
github
functionality.
A
A
This
so
let's
just
use
this
as
a
reference.
This
is
git
lab.
This
is
all
of
the
stuff
that
we
can
do.
There's
maybe
60
different
things
that
we
can
do
right.
So
what
they
did
is
they
created.
This
thing
called
github
marketplace
and
they
basically
created
this
portal,
where
any
person
in
the
open
source
community
could
make
their
own
sassed
or
destroy
ci
integration.
Our
thing
that
has
to
do
with
docker
and
now
fast
forward
into
the
future.
They
have
over
six
thousand
and
one
hundred
actions
that
are
on
this
marketplace.
A
All
of
this
stuff
is
how
they
wanted
to
catch
up
with
the
stuff
that
we
did
so
just
like
the
as
like
to
review
for
the
longest
time.
Github
only
did
20
of
this.
They
created
actions
and
now
actions
was
their
ability
to
do
everything
else,
and
now
the
community
is
actually
the
people
who
are
supplying
these
actions.
So
some
of
these
are
by
open
source
contributors,
and
some
of
these
are
actually
by
companies.
So
you
can
see
this
one's
by
docker.
A
This
is
by
google
right.
This
is
by
atlassian,
and
so
this
is
how
someone
would
build
out
their
ci
pipeline
using
github.
They
would
go
into
the
marketplace
and
get
all
sorts
of
different
actions
that
correspond
to
what
they
want.
I'll.
Just
give
you
a
quick
like
visual
example
of
this,
so
this
is
like
the
get
lab
ci.
A
This
is
a
image
that
we're
pretty
familiar
with.
We
get
all
sorts
of
great
stuff
with
gitlab
like
code,
quality
and
linting,
and
you
know
sas
and
das.
If
we
wanted
that
equivalent
stuff
in
github,
we
would
go
to
the
marketplace
and
then
we
would
find
equivalent
stuff
and
then
that
would
be
used
for
implementing
our
github
pipeline.
A
So
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
information.
It
can
help
clarify
anything
that
I've
talked
about
so
far.
C
I
mean
one
thing
I
mean
chris:
isn't
that
also
kind
of
how
gitlab
okay
two
questions?
I
guess
two
questions
here.
You
mentioned
community
dev
community.
If
they're
so
aware
that
they're
being
copied
wasn't
there
also
kind
of
a
big
traction
where
the
dev
community
was
kind
of,
like,
let's
say
annoyed
or
taken
aback
with
microsoft
bought
github
and
like
almost
by
default,
like
boycotted
them,
I
mean
enterprise.
I
understand.
C
Obviously
it's
very
in
baked,
like
you
said,
in
the
kind
of
offerings,
but
isn't
the
general
dev
community
still
kind
of,
let's
say
against
the
kind
of
you
know,
giant
davis,
goliath
kind
of
you
know,
mentality,
kind
of
thing
or.
A
But
the
problem
is
that
when
microsoft
bought,
github
github
was
already
the
dominant
developer
community
and
then
so
they
just
bought
the
platform
that
everyone
was
using.
If
github
was
microsoft's
platform
10
years
ago,
then
there
would
have
been
more
time
for
developers
to
not
like
it.
I
hope
that
that
answers
your
question.
A
What
are
some
of
the
limitations
that
y'all
see
about
actions?
So
if
I
have
the
benefit
of
get
lab,
if
every,
if
one
company
has
developed
all
60
of
these
categories,
tested
them
made
sure
that
everything
works
together
versus
and
makes
it
so
that,
like
everything's
seamless,
you
don't
have
to
integrate
anything
together
versus
if
you
go
into
actions
and
all
of
a
sudden,
your
ci
is
made
by
10
different
companies.
What
are
some
of
the
problems
that
you
all
see
with
that.
C
I
mean
there's
a
clear
problem,
but
I
mean
chris
I'm
guessing,
like
also
microsoft,
I
mean
besides,
of
course,
you
know
docker,
and
these
bigger
companies
who
are
contributing
here,
I'm
guessing
their
goal
is
just
to
kind
of
you
know.
Either
have
these
get
more
contributors
gain
traction,
either
just
directly
copy
them
or
buy
them?
For,
let's
say
little
money
I
mean
I'm
guessing.
Microsoft
has
a
kind
of
a
grander
strategy
here
in
regards
to
how
to
implement
this
into
github,
but
probably
at
some
point.
No.
A
Yeah
so
github
doesn't
mind
if
third-party
vendors
put
their
stuff
on
their
marketplace
and
the
reason
why
is
because
if
third-party
vendors
are
extending
github,
then
their
tool
wins
or
people
want
github
and
some
of
these
vendors
what
their
service
cost
money
right?
So
some
of
these
are
open
source
is
free,
and
some
of
these
are
by
enterprise
companies
like
docker
and
google,
and
they
charge
money.
A
Yeah
exactly
so,
let's
just
say
that
I
built
out
my
ci
using
github
actions
with
git
lab
everything's
verified
to
work
together.
It
works
seamlessly
together.
I,
if
I
have
any
problems,
I
only
have
to
contact
one
company,
but
to
get
equivalent
ci
there
might
need
to
be
40
different,
github
actions.
That
corresponds
with
this
thing
that
we
have
here
in
gitlab
and
then
so
now.
I
have
40
different
vendors
that
I
might
potentially
do
that
contact
for
support.
A
A
No
one
supplies
support
for
these
actions
at
all.
So
one
of
the
big
problems
with
github
actions
and
take
a
look
at
my
google
search
results
right
number.
One
is
google
action
security
risk
and
you
can
see
all
of
these
different
links.
Use
github
actions
at
your
own
risk.
Number
two
is
use
github
actions
at
your
own
risk.
A
Number
three:
is
our
github
action
safety?
Our
number
four
is
our
github
action
safety
use.
So
it's
a
really
big
problem
problem
number
one
is
a
lot
of
these
are
open
source
project,
there's
no
one
verifying
their
security.
There's.
No
one
they're
unsupported
problem.
Number
two!
Is
that
just
because
there's
so
many
different
vendors,
all
of
a
sudden
between,
like
the
the
integrations
themselves,
between
github
and
the
action,
the
other
company,
all
that's
additional
security
risk,
and
so
basically
the
idea
is
like:
where
does
your
data
live
right?
Your
code
is
your
most
valuable
asset.
A
Part
of
the
reason
why
people
buy
gitlab
on-prem
is
because
they
need
to
really
make
sure
that,
like
no
one
can
ever
hack
their
code,
but
all
of
a
sudden
look
at
all
these
companies
that
are
potentially
touching
my
code
do
all
these
companies
are.
Do
they
pass
our
security
requirements
right,
so
github
is
owned
by
microsoft.
Maybe
they
passed,
but
what
about
calibrate
app?
Are
they
secure?
What
about
42
crunch?
A
What
about
panic
code
and
all
of
a
sudden
if
I
were
a
large
enterprise,
and
I
really
wanted
to
build
out
my
ci
using
github
actions.
I
need
to
now
verify
the
security
of
maybe
40
different
vendors,
as
opposed
to
one,
which
is
a
huge
time
constraint
and
is
ultimately
like
impossible
to
really
do
well.
B
Yeah,
I
think
it's
like
a
really
smart
move
for
them
to
kind
of
yeah
catch
up
on
our
roadmap
without
having
to
like,
invest
a
huge
huge
amount
like
they've
been
able
to
like
leverage
other
people's
work
and
yeah.
That's
it's
it's.
I
think
it's
smart!
What
they've
done
but
yeah!
It
obviously
comes
with
its
cons,
because
there's
no
magic
pill
to
fix
like
make
yeah.
A
Yeah
absolutely
the
last
thing
that
I
mentioned
it,
and
I
already
talked
a
little
bit
about
this-
is
that
most
of
these
that
I
want
to
say
most
a
lot
of
the
things
that
are
on
the
actions
cost
additional
money.
And
so,
if
I
wanted
to
do
this,
I
have
to
pay
money
one
for
github
the
platform
and
two
now
I
have
to
pay
google
money.
I
have
to
pay
amazon
money.
I
have
to
pay
a
lot
a
lot.
Lastly,
on
money
and
then
so
my
bill
just
increases
in
size
too.
A
So
the
three
cons
are
one
security.
We
don't
know
who
a
lot
of
these
are
open
source
communities,
no
one's
really
secured
them
two,
it's
the
same
thing
with
integration
hell
right.
So
if
the
more
different
tools
that
we
have
the
whole
value
prop
of
gitlab
is
that
we
have
one
tool
that
does
all
of
this.
This
saves
companies
time
money,
energy.
A
They
don't
have
to
integrate
everything
together
if
there's
less
integrations
and
stuff
breaks
as
less
right,
and
so
you
don't
really
get
any
of
that,
because
if
I
have
my
ci
there's
40
companies
that
are
involved
they're
all
stitched
together,
they
all
have
their
different
support
contracts.
We
don't.
We
have
to
verify
all
of
them
for
security
that
takes
a
time
a
lot
of
money
and
just
because
there
are
now
so
many
vendors,
it's
the
same
problem
with
integration.
Hell
right
it
just
becomes
really
unwieldy
and
complicated
to
manage.
A
So
that's
the
ultimate
big
problem
with
github
actions.
It's
a
really
good
idea.
It
doesn't
have
that
much
traction
in
the
business
world.
Simply
because
of
these
reasons,
if
you
go
and
talk
about
talk
to
developers,
most
developers
don't
want
to
use
github
actions,
they
would
want
to
use
something
else
simply
because
they
know
that,
like
it's
not
mature
yet
so.
A
A
They
already
have
pre-existing
relationships
with
enterprise,
so
they
don't
have
to
fight
for
meetings
their
core,
offering
is
great,
really
highly
reviewed,
and
it's
really
extensible
with
github
marketplace
and
actions
because
of
how
they
built
this.
There
are
really
big
problems
with
it
as
well,
which
keep
a
lot
of
people
off
of
github
actions.
So,
let's
talk
about
how
we
went.
What's
the
data
show
so
having
taken
a
look
at
the
salesforce
data,
our
team,
that
analyzed
all
of
you
know
our
win
loss
record.
A
We
found
that
we
are
most
likely
to
win
if
we
lead
by
the
features
that
we
have.
The
fact
is
that
it
is
true
that
you
could
have
more
are
different
things
with
github
actions,
but
it's
if
I
were
a
business
and
I
need
to
move
quickly.
I
don't
have
time
to
evaluate
github
and
then
20
other
app
vendors
for
my
ci,
including
their
security
and
everything
else.
A
It's
just
sort
of
like
by
the
time
I
verified
everything
from
a
security
and
business
perspective,
like
my
competitions
moved
on
my
ability
to
get
gitlab
and
to
know
that
everything
works
together
and
works.
Well,
together
is
part
of
the
value
of
gitlab.
It
saves
me
time
and
money
just
because
the
the
deal
cycle
is
so
much
shorter
right,
so
our
core
offering
is
way
better
than
github's
core,
offering
that's
just
a
fact
and
businesses
understand
this.
A
So
if
we
lead
by
the
fact
that
we
do
more
better,
then
that
is
the
number
one
reason
why
we
win.
That's
what
the
salesforce
data
shows.
Let's
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
this
from
a
roadmap
perspective
they're
about
one
year
behind
us,
but
obviously
we're
pushing
out
new
things
all
the
time.
Our
goal
is
to
make
sure
that
they
are
always
behind
us.
B
Go
ahead,
so
I
was
going
to
say
in
terms
of
I
don't
know
if
this
isn't
a
later
slide,
do
you
go
over
kind
of
like
what
our
biggest
weaknesses
are?
Is
gitlab.
A
Yeah,
so
we
let's
talk
about
that
at
the
end,
yeah
remind
me
if
I
don't
bring
it
back
up
yeah,
so
how
we
win.
We
talk
about
the
fact
that
we
do
more
better.
We
are
one
tool
for
the
entire
devops
life
cycle.
A
Probably
one
of
the
biggest
details
for
us
to
bring
up
in
our
biggest
differentiator,
with
github
in
general
is
the
fact
that,
with
github
and
enterprises
in
general,
we
have
right
now
the
best
built-in
security
offering,
and
it
is
by
far
better
than
github's.
So
github
is
trying
to
build
in
additional
functionality,
but
the
whole
idea
of
testing
your
applications
for
security
during
the
dev
process
itself.
A
We
are
the
best
tool
in
the
market
that
does
this
right
now,
and
so,
if
you're
ever
on,
our
product
calls
with
scott
williamson
and
even
hear
sid
talking
about
it.
Almost
a
huge
chunk
of
our
engineering
investment
is
on
making
our
security
better,
because
that
is
our
primary
differentiator
from
a
technological
perspective.
Right
now,
with
github.
A
All
right,
so
one
more
example
of
just
how
we
do
more
from
a
features.
Perspective
is
self-hosted
deployments
on
the
bottom
right.
This
is
actual
market
share
of
self-hosted
providers
and
git
lab
has
around
80
percent.
The
market.
Github
only
has
3
percent.
We
are
way
better
than
they
are,
and
the
market
data
shows
us
customers.
If
they
really
want
to
have
a
self-hosted
deployment,
they
pick
it
lab
almost
90
percent
of
the
time
we
talked
about
why
github
actions
has
problems,
and
the
last
thing
is
the
fact
that
we're
open
source
this
resonates.
A
If,
if
I'm
ever
talking
with
a
company
that
has
open
source
components
or
they
might
be
working
in
an
open
source
project
themselves,
then
it's
a
really
great
way
to
resonate
with
them
right,
we're
open
source
too.
That
means
that
you
can
be
part
of
our
community.
You
can
influence
our
roadmap
directly.
You
can
just
literally
go
on
issues
and
then
select
write.
What
you
want,
that's
really
powerful
for
a
lot
of
businesses
is
to
be
able
to
feel
like.
You
are
part
of
something
larger
than
just
a
business
agreement.
A
I
think
that
we've
already
seen
this,
but
once
again
just
almost
a
visual
of
showing
that,
like
we
do
so
much
more
than
github
right
now
from
us
your
product
perspective,
can
I
help
clarify
anything
about
github
before
I
move
on
to
azure
devops.
A
All
right
awesome,
so
let's
talk
about
azure
devops
and
the
story
behind
azure
devops
is
kind
of
interesting,
so
fast
forward
into
history.
2015
microsoft
creates
this
thing
called
azure
devops,
and
it's
really
kind
of
interesting,
because
three
years
later,
microsoft
acquired
another
company
github.
That
does
a
very,
very
similar
thing.
So,
generally
speaking
technology
companies,
they
don't
acquire
two
companies
that
they
do
almost
identical
things
they
acquire
one
and
then
just
put
all
of
their
eggs
in
that
basket
right.
A
Basically,
it's
basically
just
like
copied
and
pasted
in.
Another
thing
is
just
talking
about
roadmap.
Github's
roadmap
is
way
more
robust
than
azure
devops's,
so
all
that
is
to
say,
since
they
have
two
tools
that
do
a
very
similar
thing.
Microsoft
has
chosen
one
to
invest
in
it's
not
going
to
just
like
get
rid
of
azure
devops
because
it
obviously
wants
renewals
right,
but
in
the
future
it's
putting
most
of
its
emphasis
onto
github.
Why
do
you
all
think
that
is
the
case.
C
I
mean
github,
as
you
said,
has
the
biggest
community
base
and
obviously
with
actions.
They're
still
kind
of
you
know,
making
a
big
road
map.
So
there's
more
traction,
I
guess
there's
more
traction
and
github
I
mean
azure.
I
guess,
as
he
said,
is
the
older
product,
the
ones
who
are
currently
using
it
are
using
it
more
because
they've
been
based
on
it
for
a
while,
I'm
pretty
sure
by
2022.
They'll,
probably
start
like
you
know
during
renewals,
just
kind
of
say:
hey,
we'll
offer
you
github,
probably
yeah,.
B
A
Exactly
from
a
technological
perspective,
they
do
more
than
github
does
right
now
and
having
talked
with
and
done
a
bunch
of
like,
I
went
on
all
their
sales
marketing
sites,
and
I
looked
around
it's
actually
really
interesting.
A
If
you
talk
to
one
of
the
people
from
gitlab,
we
talk
about
we're
one
tool
for
the
entire
devops
life
cycle.
This
saves
you
time
money
license,
cost.
They
say
the
exact
same
thing
about
their
tool.
It
is
literally
almost
an
identical
sales
motion.
They
say
we're
112
an
entire
devops
life
cycle.
We
are
all
that
you
need
you
save
time
money
and
license
cost,
also
similar
to
us
they're
deployed
both
in
self-hosted
and
ososa
sas.
A
One
thing
that
they
do
have
that's
an
advantage
over
us
is
that
if
a
company
uses
a
bunch
of
microsoft
tools
like
visual
code,
studio,
microsoft,
test
manager,
things
like
that
azure
devops,
basically
works
better
with
microsoft,
stuff
than
ours
does.
Ours
is
better
for
kubernetes
and
linux,
but
the
good
benefit
for
that
is
that
the
tech
industry
in
general
is
going
towards
kubernetes
and
linux.
So
it's
an
advantage
for
us
actually.
A
So
how
do
they
compete
against
us?
One
thing:
that's
kind
of
interesting
is
that
there
are
actually
separate
sales
teams
between
azure,
devops
and
github,
and
so
sometimes
they
sort
of,
like,
I
don't
say,
fight
each
other,
but
they
end
up
like
in
the
same
account.
A
Yeah,
so
how
they
one
of
the
big
differentiators
with
us,
is
that
they
have
more
flexible
pricing,
so
they
can
say
like
hey.
This
is
like
a
15
million
dollar
deal
because
we're
working
with
the
enterprise-
and
we
can
say
we'll-
have
a
tiered
structure
month.
One
through
three
will
be
the
evaluation
phase,
we'll
give
you
ten
percent
of
your
seats
and
then
month,
three
through
six
it'll,
be
your
ramp
up
phase
will
give
you
another
thirty
percent
of
your
seats.
It
won't
charge
you
for
less.
A
They
also
talk
about
literally
like
we
have
all
of
these
charts.
That
say
like
we
do
more
than
them.
They
have
their
own
charts.
That
say
that
they
do
more
than
us.
So
git
lfl
supports
large
files.
They
say
that
both
does
this,
but
look
at
all
the
yeses
in
their
column,
and
then
they
say
a
no
in
their
column
right
very
similar
sales
motion.
Their
idea
is
that
they're
one
tool
for
the
entire
devops
lifecycle
and
they're
more
mature
than
us
in
actuality.
A
We
do
more
stuff
than
them,
but
there
are
areas
in
which
they
do
more
stuff
than
us.
B
B
A
Yeah,
if
you
go
on
even
like
our
documentation,
people
in
the
community
challenge
us
on
that
stuff
all
the
time,
and
sometimes
we
actually
change
it.
The
difference
is
that,
like
we'll
change
it
for
them
a
large
enterprise
company,
they
probably
won't
change
it
just
because
they
don't
have
mechanisms
to
change
it,
even
if
they
wanted
to
right.
Okay,
all
right.
So
let's
talk
about
how
we
win.
We
are
the
most
complete
solution
for
software
engineering
and
devops
right
now,
they're
only
involved
in
six
out
of
ten
of
our
total
get
lab
categories.
A
It's
only
really
six
out
of
ten,
especially
for
companies
that
are
more
involved
in
non-microsoft
stuff,
so
some
companies
in
the
enterprise
space
they
do
not
want
to
work
with
microsoft,
simply
because
they've
chosen
amazon
as
their
vendor
and
sometimes
they're,
actually
directly
competing
with
microsoft
in
accounts,
like
that,
that's
a
huge
git
lab
opportunity,
just
because
they're
never
going
to
choose
microsoft,
because
it's
just
like
not
within
their
business
interest,
to
give
them
money
right
so
either
from
a
business
perspective
or
a
technological
perspective.
A
If
they
don't
like
microsoft
or
if
they're,
not
using
microsoft
stuff.
If
they're
using
things
like
linux
containers
at
microsoft
and
microservices
so
kubernetes,
then
we
have
a
huge
advantage.
Over
microsoft,
we
can
use
open
source
again
we're
kind
of
like
position
ourselves
as
we're
community
movement
you're,
not
just
going
with
some
large
established
vendor,
you're
being
part
of
a
project
that
involves
people
from
all
around
the
planet,
to
make
things
better
for
everyone
that
appeals
to
a
lot
of
people
and
we
have
a
better
roadmap.
Once
again,
microsoft
is
focusing
on
github.
A
A
So
that
is
basically
it's
not
just
what
you
get
today,
but
it's
what
you
get
three
years,
five
years,
ten
years
from
now
all
right.
Let's
talk
about
jenkins,
real,
quick,
we're
kind
of
running
a
little
bit
behind
so
we'll
dive
right
in
jenkins
in
one
of
the
charts
that
we
talked
about
earlier,
it
has
a
huge
number
of
jobs
out
there.
A
The
reason
why
is
because,
for
a
long
period
of
time,
jenkins
was
the
only
tool
out
there
and
so
for
almost
five
to
ten
years.
If
you
wanted
to
have
ci,
you
use
jenkins,
and
so
during
that
time
it
just
got
more
and
more
and
more
market
share
in
the
last
three
years.
What
the
industry
has
realized
is
that
there's
better
tools
that
are
available
out
there
right
now,
and
so,
if
in
general
we
can
get
into
these
accounts,
explain
our
value
proposition.
Why
we're
better
our
differentiators,
then
we
have
a
pretty
high
conversion
rate.
A
The
other
thing
that
I'd
say
about
this
is
that
as
someone
who's
used
jenkins
for
about
five
years
myself,
as
an
engineer
jenkins,
is
pretty
easy
to
target,
because
a
lot
of
people
don't
like
jenkins.
The
only
people
who
use
jenkins
are
people
who
aren't
aware
of
all
the
other
stuff.
That's
out
there
right
now
in
2020,
so
this
is
a
really
great
sign
for
us.
A
One
thing
to
talk
about
is
the
fact:
it's
open
source
and
free,
so
we
are
competing
with
something
that
is
not
mon
that
work.
So
when
we're
talking
about
competing
with
jenkins
we're
talking
about
something
that
people
go
out,
they
download
it
and
then
they
just
install
it
on
their
own
server
right.
So
it's
not
like
a
company,
but
sometimes
it
is
a
company.
A
So
what
a
lot
of
open
source
companies
do
is
they'll
have
a
free
version
and
then
they'll
have
an
enterprise
version,
so
the
enterprise
version
will
either
do
more.
It
will
include
support,
it
will
have
an
established
roadmap
and
so
like
red
hat,
that's
one
of
their
primary
business
models,
and
so
there's
this
company
called
cloudbees
that
enterprise
that
offers
an
enterprise
version
of
jenkins
in
actuality.
We
don't
need
to
know
so
much
about
them.
A
The
long
story
short
with
them
is
that
they're
not
super
successful,
simply
because
they
don't
add
that
much
value
and
very
few
like
how
often
you
all
include
like
encounter
cloud
b's
in
your
account.
B
A
Exactly
so
long
story
short
is
that,
like
we
don't
need
to
be
worried
about
them,
we
do
need
to
be
aware
that
they
exist.
So
primarily,
we
are
competing
with
an
open
source
and
free
tool.
A
They
have
an
estimated
around
70
percent
of
the
market
share,
and
so
this,
having
taken
a
look
at
this,
I
looked
at
a
bunch
of
industry
metrics
and
the
bottom
line
is
around
70
of
the
accounts
that
we
talk
to
will
have
jenkins
somewhere
in
their
environment.
A
A
Let's
imagine
that
you
have
some
sort
of
application
right.
It
could
be
like
your
website
or
something
else,
but
that
website
was
designed
by
200
different
people,
and
so
I
made
the
home
screen
johann.
You
made
the
shopping,
cart
daniel.
You
made,
like
you,
know
the
the
place
that
you
get
to
see.
Images
and
200
different
people
came
up
with
this
website
now.
A
Then
it
becomes
really
really
really
hard
to
do
something
like
upgrading
it
migrating
it
changing
it
just
because
there
was
never
any
consolidated
vision
right.
It
was
just
someone
that
was
trying
to
make
out
their
specific
thing.
So
that's
exactly
what
a
plugin
is
so
like
jenkins.
Is
this
open
source
project
and
they
made
it
extensible
by
having
other
people
be
able
to
write
in
their
code?
A
That
extends
it
now,
all
of
a
sudden,
there's
200
different
people,
organizations
that
have
are
written
part
of
your
application,
and
so
now,
from
upgradability
perspective,
you
install
jenkins,
you
configure
it
with
all
these
plugins
and
now,
if
you
upgrade
it,
then
all
of
a
sudden,
something
like
maybe
10.
20
percent
of
your
plug-ins
stop
working,
and
so
the
problem
is
that
most
people
who
have
jenkins
are
aware
of
this
problem
and
they
don't
actually
upgrade
jenkins,
then
because
they
wanted
to
continue
working
and
so
jenkins
ends
up
becoming
insecure
and
then
so.
A
People
like
people
know
that
it's
a
problem,
but
there's
no
real
good
way
of
dealing
with
this.
Just
because
of
how
the
product
was
designed
it
does
that
analogy,
makes
sense
all
right
awesome.
The
the
other
thing
that
I
want
to
talk
about
with
plugins
is
that
people
don't
really
make
money
off
of
plugins,
so
I'm
just
like
an
open
source
developer.
A
A
So
here's
another
problem
with
plugins
I
have
200
of
these.
Some
of
these
are
being
updated,
but
since
they're
from
the
community,
if
I
just
made
this
plug-in
and
then
retired,
then
now
there's
no
one.
That's
putting
out
bug
fixes
updates
it's
basically
obsolete
at
this
point,
and
I
have
no
idea
of
knowing
which
of
these
200
plugins
are
actively
being
maintained,
are
safe
and
which
ones
someone
just
made
and
then
disappeared,
and
so
like,
given
like
five
years
time,
10
years
time.
A
The
vast
majority
of
your
plugins,
the
people
who
originally
made
them,
don't
care
about
them
anymore
and
now
they're
insecure
and
they
have.
They
may
not
even
work
right.
So
that's
another
really
big
problem
with
plugins
is
that
like
because
they
are
from
the
open
source
community?
There's
no
one!
That's
saying
I've
guaranteed
that
this
works.
It
is
going
to
work
not
only
today
but
tomorrow,
and
if
I
have
all
these
200
plugins
within
two
year
period
of
time,
maybe
20
will
be
insecure.
Maybe
30
literally
won't
work.
A
If
I
upgrade
jenkins
and
that's
just
because
people
are
making
them,
then
they're
retiring
and
then
some
maybe
no
one
ever
like
picks
up
like
where
the
project
was
so
that
that's
what
we're
talking
about
with
plug-ins
one
thing
that
I'd
say
about
this:
is
that,
like
the
engineers
that
are
in
charge
of
jenkins
themselves,
they
understand
this
is
a
problem.
But
if
you
talk
to
someone
who
isn't
directly
involved
with
like
administrating
or
upgrading
jenkins,
they
don't
really
understand
this
problem.
So
we
can't
go
in.
A
I
I
hear
sdrs,
all
the
time
go
into
calls
and
say,
like
tell
me,
do
you
have
any
problems
with
like
jenkins,
plug-ins
but
they're
talking
to
like
a
it
manager?
The
problem
is
that
the
it
manager
doesn't
know
about
jenkins
plug-ins
and
doesn't
care
instead,
a
better
question
to
ask
is:
do
you
ever
have
any
problems
with
jenkins
in
general,
where,
like
you,
missed
a
deadline
or
like
some
sort
of
process
broke
because,
like
it
broke
down
at
a
critical
time,
most
businesses
will
say
yes
and
then
you've
uncovered
pain.
A
A
So
we
another
thing
to
talk
about
is
that,
like
jenkins,
is
an
open
source
project.
It's
free
that
being
said
most
organizations,
they
hire
an
engineer
and
pay
them
150
000
a
year
to
work
on
and
maintain
jenkins
full
time
that
is,
their
job
is
to
make
sure
that
jenkins
is
running
just
because
jenkins
takes
so
much
time.
So,
if
we
point
that
out
to
our
customers,
then
all
of
a
sudden
they
realize-
oh,
it's
not
just
free
to
pay,
it
does
cost
our
organization
money
right.
How
much
money
does
this
cost?
A
What's
whatever
the
salary
of
the
people
who
are
using
jenkins
is
get
lab
is
way
more
seamless.
Your
engineers
will
have
to
spend
a
lot
less
time
operating,
maintaining
upgrading
the
environment,
and
all
of
that
is
is
basically
just
like
part
of
the
picture
that
we're
trying
to
paint
last
thing.
I
would
like
to
talk
about
is
jenkins,
has
no
roadmap.
Honestly,
we
can
go
into
a
lot
of
these
accounts
and
basically
say:
did
you
know
that
the
industry
is
migrating
off
of
jenkins?
What
are
they
migrating
to?
A
A
How
often
do
you
talk
about
jira
in
your
accounts?
Is
it
pretty
common.
A
A
So
it's
the
same
similar
story
with
jira
in
the
sense
that
they
were
the
only
tool
out
there
for
a
really
long
time,
and
so
they
just
gobbled
up
markets
markets
share.
They
have
over
50
percent
of
the
market
for
project
management.
What
I
mean
by
project
management
is
like
tickets.
Road
maps
milestones
all
that
agile
planning
stuff,
so
particularly
they
had
first
movers
advantage,
they've
been
in
existence
for
since
2002
and
they're
really
really
really
big,
so
their
company
has
been
astronomically
successful.
This
is
their
stock
price.
A
Their
stock
price
in
the
last
three
years
has
literally
gone
up
almost
like
almost
like
5x,
or
something
like
that
and
in
terms
of
industry,
validation,
they're
ranked
really
really
highly.
A
The
problem
is
that
as
someone
who's
used
jira,
it
does
do
a
lot
of
really
great
things,
but
it
takes
a
lot
of
time
to
get
there.
It's
really
hard
to
install
and
configure.
So
that's
like
something
to
be
aware
of
with
jira
here's.
The
market
share
for
different
agile
management
tools
and,
as
you
can
see,
jira
comes
in
at
53
market
share
and
if
we
take
a
look
at
google
docs,
google
docs
is
only
at
14.
So
literally
we're
talking
about
a
really
dominant
player,
so
competitive
history.
A
We
know
this.
Our
motion
is
to
integrate
with
jira
the
reason.
Why
is
because,
if
I've
used
jira
for
5
years
10
years,
which
many
of
our
large
customers
have,
then
they
have
a
lot
of
data
on
jira
and
it's
not
so
easy
to
just
migrate.
All
of
that
stuff
onto
another
platform
and
teach
everyone
that
new
platform.
A
So
that's
why
we've
invested
in
making
a
first
class
integration
with
jira,
making
it
very
easy
to
use
the
two
tools
together
and
one
of
the
new
things
that
has
started
happening
is
that
jira
announced
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
that
they
are
discontinuing
support
for
all
of
their
on-prem
versions.
So
this
is
bitbucket.
This
is
jira.
This
is
all
their
on-prem
tools.
They
are
discontinuing
in
2024,
so
they
have
four
years
to
migrate
off
onto
either
another
on-prem
solution
or
onto
a
sas
based
solution.
A
So
since
gitlab
is
really
really
really
good
at
on-prem
deployment.
This
is
now
our
our
like
market.
To
win
is
that
our
customers
that
they
need
to
have
an
on-prem
solution.
It
could
be
get
lab
so.
B
A
Yeah
exactly
all
right.
Well,
I
want
to
be
true
to
my
promise.
It's
now
20
20.
there
is
going
to
be
a
google
doc
that
goes
out.
This
is
how
you
get
course,
credit
so
be
sure
to
fill
it
out
in
the
next
10
days.
Get
it
back
to
me.
That's
how
you
get
credit
for
the
class,
but
is
there
anything
else
that
I
could
help
to
clarify
while
we
have
some
time
together
or
we
can
just
wrap
up
this
session.
B
A
couple
of
quick
questions:
johanna,
don't
know
if
you
needed
a
drop
off
whether
you
wanted
to
ask
your
question
and
go
or.
B
Yeah
cool
yeah.
So
my
first
question
before
I
can't
remember
what
point
that
sparked
it,
but
I
think
it
was
when
you
were
talking
about
one
of
our
different
differentiators
being
security,
and
I
was
just
saying
I
don't
know
whether
it's
just
an
smb
problem
but
kind
of
security
and
get
lab
sort
of
locked
behind
the
paywall
of
ultimate
slash
gold
of
99.
B
A
So
literally
they're
working
on
like
coming
up
with
a
viable
version
of
their
product
that
they
can
then
pitch
to
investors
and
get
investor
money
and
then,
after
they
have
that
initial
round
of
funding,
then
they're
spending
all
of
their
effort
into
basically
becoming
like
cash
break.
Even
so,
their
focus
isn't
so
much
on
security.
Their
focus
is
on
like
getting
more
business
and
getting
a
product
that
actually
will
sell.
A
So
in
terms
of
like
the
amount
of
money
that
they
have,
they
do
have
that
amount
of
money
to
spend
out
on
our
highest
tier.
It's
just
that
security
in
general
isn't
emphasis
for
a
lot
of
these
people
simply
because
they
may
not
know
if
they
are
going
to
exist
in
like
one
to
two
years
right,
and
so
they
don't
really
care
so
much
about
some
security
exploit
coming
out.
C
B
Well,
sneakers,
open
source
and
they've
also
got
like
a
lot
of
free
functionality
as
well.
So
I'm
not
sure
if
that
would
be
one
of
them.
But
do
you
know
pricing
wise
chris,
whether
99
per
user
per
month
for
like
a
security
solution?
A
Yeah,
that's
a
real
like,
so
the
only
companies
that
really
really
care
about
security
are
companies
with
a
lot
of
money.
So
if
you're,
if
you're
some
small
company
and
you
have
a
security
exploit,
then
you
are
so
small
that
the
amount
of
like
media
damage
to
that.
A
Isn't
that
much
just
because,
like
people
don't
know
about
you
in
general,
but
if
there
were
ever
a
security
problem
with
something
like
facebook
or
twitter,
and
then
all
the
personal
data
got
leaked,
then
all
of
a
sudden,
that's
like
a
20
billion
dollar
like
loss
of
like
revenue
for
those
companies,
so
those
companies
really
really
care
about
security
and
all
of
the
security
vendors
know.
That
is
that
their
primary
customer
segment
is
enterprise,
and
so
they
charge
accordingly.
They
know
that
they're
going
after
facebook,
google,
microsoft.
These
are
companies
with
huge
budgets.
A
B
Yeah,
okay,
fair
enough
yeah,
because
a
lot
of
the
time,
if
we
talk
about
like
we
get
that
vision
and
talking
about
like
our
value
proposition
whatever
I
try
and
talk
about,
you
know
putting
security
left
and
all
that
kind
of
thing
and
they're
like.
Oh
that's
so
interesting,
they're
like
oh
so
you
know
is
that
is
that
available
on
you
know
bronze
or
silver,
and
I'm
like
oh,
I
was
touching
the
gold
tier
all
right.
What's
that
price
that
ninety-nine
dollars
for
you
per
month?
Oh,
oh,
oh,
okay!
No!
No!
Sorry!
A
Maybe
this
would
be
helpful,
but
when
I
worked
for
startup
we
would
never.
I
don't.
I
think
we
talked
about
security
once
like
out
of
all
the
time
that
we're
brainstorming
talking
about
engineering
stuff
99
of
it
was
how
to
get
something
to
work.
One
per
like
less
than
one
percent
of
it
was
about
like
whether
or
not
we're
doing
things
in
a
secure
manner.
A
I
think
that
it's
worth
like
asking
about,
but
it's
not
something
that
I'd
push
really
heavily
on
just
knowing
that
it's
not
a
priority
for
them.
Their
priority
is
to
get
something
that
works.
B
Yeah
yeah
no
cool
appreciate
it.
Second
last
question
was
get
lab
weaknesses
like
what
are
they
in
your
opinion
and
what
are
we
doing
about
them?.
A
Yeah,
the
biggest
weakness
for
gitlab,
in
my
opinion,
is
because
we
have
monthly
releases
and
we
have
this
mvc
approach
that
we
tend
to
push
out
stuff
that
isn't
really
great.
So
what
most
companies
do
is
they'll
only
have
like
a
release
every
four
to
six
months,
and
then,
though,
they
want
to
make
those
releases
great
because
they
understand
that,
like
the
the
latest
version
of
their
product
represents
like
what
people
think
about
the
company
right,
what
gitlab
does
is
because
we
have
an
mvc
approach.
A
Sometimes
our
features
like
are
very,
very,
very
minimal
in
the
sense
that
they
almost
do
nothing
and
when
a
customer
sees
that
they're
just
sort
of
like
this
is
a
joke.
I
don't
understand
why
we
didn't
do
this
because,
like
they
don't
understand
that
we
do
take
this
mvc
approach
so
and
when
it's
not
a
weakness
necessarily
for
us,
it's
a
trade-off.
C
Of
course,
in
regards
to
releasing
monthly,
I
mean
where
you
said,
of
course,
that
you
know
github
is
around
a
year
behind
us.
What's
your
estimate
on,
let's
say
work
exactly
how
far
they
are
behind
us
month-wise
and
when
do
you
think
they'll
catch
up?
I
think
it's
a
matter
not
I
mean,
of
course
I
know
our
goal
is
to
stay
in
front,
but
I
think
at
some
point
being
realistic.
They
will
catch
up
and
probably
overtake
at
some
point.
A
Yeah,
so
let
me
sort
of
talk
about
that,
because,
obviously
we
have
stock
in
this
company
right,
it's
important
to
understand
just
sort
of
like
where
that's
going
to
intersect.
A
I
estimate
that
it's
one
year,
if
we're
not
moving
forward
too
so
if
gitlab
stopped
improving
our
product
and
they
had
one
year
to
catch
up,
it'd
probably
take
him
about
one
year
to
implement
a
large
chunk
of
the
stuff
that
we
have
now,
but
it's
different
because
we're
not
just
sitting
still
we're,
also
improving
our
product.
All
the
time,
and
one
of
the
advantages
that
we
have
over
them
is
that
the
open
source
community
directly
contributes
to
gitlab
versus
github
is
all
like
closed
source.
So
they
don't
have
the
ability
to
do
that.
A
You
can
delay
it
by
putting
in
a
lot
of
like
beams
and
poles
and
like
doing
things
to
fix
it.
But
if
it
has
a
bad
foundation,
that's
a
structural
problem
from
an
architecture
point
of
view,
github
actions,
the
good
thing
about
it
is
that
they
increased
its
functionality
like
10,
20,
30
50
fold
very
quickly,
but
from
an
architectural
point
of
view,
just
because
they
designed
it
the
way
that
they
did.
They
are
always
going
to
run
into
the
problems
of
if
we're
an
enterprise.
A
I
do
not
have
time
and
want
to
investigate
your
platform,
plus
your
19
integrations
make
sure
that
everything
works
together,
make
sure
that
everything
passes
my
security
team,
because
your
tool
is
going
to
be
looking
at
my
code,
which
is
my
most
valuable
asset
for
a
lot
of
these
companies
right
so
like
it's
just
like
that,
just
because
of
how
they
chose
that
to
work.
There's
always
going
to
be
problems
with
that
that
I
don't
think
that
they
can
overcome
because
they're
not
like
technological
problems.
C
A
Okay,
I
would
definitely
answer
this
async.
Thank
you
all
for
your
time,
I'll,
send
it
out
by
email
thanks
guys.