►
Description
A presentation of the Hyperledger Climate Action and Accounting Special Interest Group on March 22, 2022 with by John Hoopes IV, Strategy + Ecosystem at Toucan. This talk will lay out the key concepts behind the Toucan Protocol and tokenized carbon credits and Toucan architecture and lay out the importance of building climate action into the infrastructure of our financial system.
For anyone interested in getting involved with the Hyperledger Climate Action and Accounting Special Interest Group, find out more at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CASIG/
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A
Okay,
you're
alive:
okay,
welcome
everybody
to
the
general
meeting
of
the
hyper
lecture
climate
action,
accounting
special
interest,
cube
on
march
22..
Today
we
have
a
special
guest
presenting
to
us
john
from
toucan,
but
before
we
jump
into
his
presentation,
we
will
give
new
members
the
chance
for
introductions
lars.
As
I
saw
that
you
joined
the
call.
Do
you
want
to
go
first
sure,
I'm
happy
to
do
so,
so
my
name
is
lars
crayley.
A
That
includes
creating
some
of
the
standards
that
we're
familiar
with,
as
well
as
running
the
environmental
division
for
the
company
apix
that
built
most
of
the
electronic
registries,
with
the
various
carbon
programs
and
rec
programs,
as
well
as
developing
carbon
projects,
esg
strategy
and
so
forth,
but
so
relatively
familiar
with
greenhouse
gas
accounting.
All
of
those
things
relatively
new
to
the
blockchain
world
wow.
That's
amazing,
thanks
for
joining
last
absolutely
is
anyone
else
new
to
this
car.
A
A
Development
in
toucan
and
tucum
provides
an
open
infrastructure
for
carbon
markets
running
on
public
blockchains
to
finance
the
highest
impact
climate
projects.
His
other
work
is
focused
on
the
application
of
special
data
technologies,
with
consensus
economy
and
connecting
dots
in
a
community
building
a
brighter
future
for
humanity.
A
Since
toucan
launched
in
october
21,
they
have
already
bridged
18
million
tons
of
co2,
which
accounts
for
roughly
five
percent
of
the
very
registry.
John.
Thank
you
so
much
for
making
the
time
today
and
I'm
very
much
looking
forward
to
your
presentation.
The
stage
is
yours.
I
start
I
stop
sharing
and
then
you
can
go
ahead
and
share
your
presentation
with
us.
B
A
B
Regenerative
future
great
okay,
great!
Well,
thank
you
again
so
much
for
having
me
my
name
is
john.
I
go
by
john
x
across
the
cryptoverse.
My
real
last
name
is
john
hoops,
but
you
know
it's
crypto.
It's
web3
we're!
I'm
here
today
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
we
we're
approaching
building
for
regenerative
future
at
toucan
protocol
toucan
is
a
product.
B
The
first
20
minutes
I'll,
I
do
have
some
slides
prepared
but
don't
feel
like
we
need
to
stick
to
them
and
then
the
second
half
of
the
the
chat
we
can
get
together
and
and
yeah
have
a
bit
of
a
broader
conversation
and
I'd
really
especially
love
I'm.
So
I'm
not
quite
as
familiar
with
the
enterprise
blockchain
world.
I've
done
some
work
with
enterprise
blockchain
technologies
in
the
past,
but
have
been
pretty
focused
on
public
blockchains
for
the
last
few
years.
B
So
I'd
be
really
keen,
especially
to
get
all
of
your
perspective
on
the
applications
of
of
some
of
these
ideas
in
the
in
the
hyperledger
world.
So
let's
go
ahead
and
move
forward
into
the
talk,
and
then
we
yeah
we'll
have
a
chat
later
on
cool
all
right.
So
at
two
can
we
build
tools
to
bridge
carbon
markets
onto
public
blockchains
and
there's
a
quite
a
a
kind
of
long-winded
explanation
for
why
we
do
this
and
why
we
feel
like
it,
matters
which
I'll
take
the
next
10
minutes
to
go
through.
B
But
the
essence
of
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
create
the
capability
to
embed
climate
action
into
the
fabric
of
our
financial
system,
so
this
entails
giving
others
the
tools
to
build
applications
that
benefit
that
include
this
sort
of
planet.
Positive
action
in
this
as
a
sort
of
default
and
I'll
explain
a
bit
what
I
mean
but
toucan,
specifically
as
an
infrastructure
provider.
So
we
do
not
buy
carbon
credits.
Do
we
not
sell
carbon
credits?
B
B
So
what
does
it
mean
to
be
regenerative?
There
are
a
couple
of
different
categories
of
resource
consumption,
which
are
illustrated
by
these
little
graphs.
You
can
imagine
this
is
the
x-axis
is
time
and
the
y-axis
on
each
of
these
charts
is
the
amount
of
resources
available
in
a
system,
and
extractive
systems
will
deplete
the
resource
over
time.
B
Regenerative
systems
are
probably
what
we
should
be
aiming
for,
because
sustainable
is
it's
tricky
to
hit
something
where
it's
sustainable
and
kind
of
maintains
its
balance,
when
you
can't
necessarily
foresee
these
black
swan
events
or
unexpected
kind
of
yeah
environmental
changes
or
changes
in
the
dynamics
of
the
system,
so
we
want
to
be
aiming
for
one
where
we're
regenerating
and
building
capacity
over
time
resilient
with
with
resilience
shocks.
This
is
from
a
graphic
by
stephen
key
on
twitter.
B
Kevin
owaki
shared
this
image.
So
then
the
question
becomes:
what
do
we
regenerate
and
I
personally
hold
the
belief
that
regeneration
is
a
multi-dimensional
endeavor,
that
we
can't
be
too
fixated
narrowly
fixated
on
one
particular
metric
and
that
even
by
kind
of
putting
a
metric
on
it,
we
run
the
risk
of
optimizing
for
the
metric
rather
than
for
the
actual
health
of
the
species
and
health
of
the
earth.
But
it
does
help
to
obviously
draw
boundaries
and
it
does
help
to
identify
certain
categories.
B
This
work
is
the
outcome
of
of
a
couple
of
exercises.
We've
done
in
the
colonel
fellowship
with
their
regeneration
guild,
which
I've
been
co-leading
over
the
last
few
years,
and
we
got
this
amazing
group
of
people
together
to
just
brainstorm
all
the
different
things
we
thought
we
should
regenerate
and
surprisingly-
or
maybe
not
the
number
one
category
was
the
self
the
ourselves.
B
So
these
were
kind
of
distilled
into
these
five
five
categories.
We
see
community
earth
interspecies,
individual
and
organizations.
I
don't
think
this
is
a
comprehensive
list.
I
don't
think
there
is
a
correct
list,
but
this
points
to
the
fact
that
there
are
many
different
things
that
we
need
to
be
thinking
about
regenerating,
and
ideally,
we
optimized
our
system
so
that
it's
regenerating
all
of
them
based
on
our
collective
value
sets.
B
So
what
does
this
actually
mean
in
terms
of
what
we
might
measure
sure
atmospheric
greenhouse
gas
concentrations
next
level
being
something
like
biodiversity,
but
also
things
like
issues
of
equity
and
justice
and
gender,
gender
equity,
racial
equality,
health
measures
of
health,
individual
health,
collective
health,
community,
health,
organizational
health,
mental
health,
our
institutions
and
government
systems?
I
could
argue
we
should
be
regenerating
the
state
of
our
public
discourse
now.
B
So
where
do
we
start
with
all
that
sort
of
framing
of
this
high
level?
You
know
we
should
be
regenerating
our
mental
health.
Where
do
we
actually
start?
I?
I
will
say
that
that
those
prior
slides
that
was
about
regenerative
finance
more
broadly
toucan,
is
taking
quite
a
pragmatic
and
narrow
view
on
this
at
the
moment,
with
the
overarching
vision
of
helping
build
this
regenerative
financial
system.
But
but
what
toucan
is
is
it's
fundamentally
infrastructure
to
bridge
the
voluntary
carbon
market
onto
public
blockchains?
B
And
there
are
a
couple
of
pieces
of
this
infrastructure
which
I
want
to
walk
through
and
I'm
really
keen
to
get
your
feedback,
because
I
know
we
have
some
people
who
have
very
deep
knowledge
of
carbon
markets
in
the
room.
I
know
we
have
people
who
have
very
deep
knowledge
of
blockchains
and
tokenized
asset
tokenization
systems,
so
yeah
I
this
is.
This
is.
B
And
yeah,
I
think
personally,
very
much
that
ideas
strengthen
under
scrutiny
and
the
hard
questions
are
the
best
questions,
so
don't
hold
back
there.
But
the
essence
of
this
is
we've
got
a
couple
of
components
of
the
protocol.
The
first
is
the
two:
can
carbon
bridge?
We
also
have
what
we
call
the
toucan
meta
registry
and
the
carbon
pools
which
I'll
go
through
in
a
moment,
but
the
whole
journey
starts
with
this
idea
of
the
carbon
bridge.
B
We
have
an
interoperable
system
where
carbon
credits
from
different
registries
can
be
compared
and
bundled
together
with
each
other,
and
the
third
piece
is
this:
module
that
we
built
called
the
toucan
carbon
pools
which
serve
to
gather
together
liquidity
of
similar
carbon
credits
and
create
a
liquid
fungible
token
that
can
be
useful
across
decentralized
finance
and
beyond.
But
the
first
step
is
the
two:
can
carbon
bridge
so
essentially
what
the
two
can
carbon
bridge
is.
It
enables
a
tokenization
of
verified
carbon
credits.
B
Currently,
the
only
registry
connected
to
the
2ken
carbon
bridge
from
the
off
chain
registry
network
is
the
vera
registry.
So,
as
a
user,
you
can
go
to
toucan.earth
and
initialize
a
bridging
process
and
and
then
go
to
your
to
the
very
registry
and
retire
the
credits,
a
bachelor
of
credits
in
the
vera
registry.
B
With
us
explicit
message
saying
these
credits
are
for
tokenization
with
toucan,
not
for
climate
action
before
tokenization
with
toucan
and
thereby
transfer
the
functionality
of
the
credit,
along
with
all
of
the
attributes
on
to
the
toucan
meta
registry,
that
transfer
event.
The
bridging
event
is,
then
verified
and
approved,
and
once
it's
approved,
those
credits
become
carbon
tokens
right.
B
So
it's
a
kind
of
transferring
from
a
carbon
credit
to
a
carbon
token
one
to
one
and
these
carbon
tokens
adhere
to
an
open
standard
which
is
called
the
tco2
standard,
and
essentially
what
that
means
is.
This
is
a
a
standard,
smart
contract
representing
these,
these
tokens
that
have
additional
information
about
the
particular
carbon
project
and
the
carbon
vintage.
B
So
I
think
probably
most
of
you
know,
carbon
markets
are
are
quite
a
differentiated
asset
class
where
each
carbon
credit
has
information
about
it,
including
the
project
where
it
was
kind
of
issued
from
the
the
year
that
it
was
the
the
climate
impact
took
place.
There
are
certain
co-benefits,
there's
the
verification
methodology
that
was
followed
in
order
to
to
verify
that
that
the
climate
impact
actually
took
place
and
so
forth,
and
all
of
those
form
the
basis
of
what
gives
these
credits
value.
Newer
credits
tend
to
be
more
valuable
than
older
credits.
B
B
But
we
also
then
bring
enhanced
utility
to
the
asset
class
because,
as
cryptographic
tokens,
they
can
well
they
kind
of
inherit
a
lot
of
properties
and
functionality
and
interoperability
with
decentralized
finance
applications
which
I'll
talk
about.
In
a
few
minutes,
so
first
step
is
this
two:
can
carbon
bridge
to
bridge
carbon
credits
from
off
chain
on
to
the
the
toucan
meta
registry?
B
B
We
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
later
on,
if
you'd
like,
but
essentially
there's
this
procedure
for
securely
bridging
this
batch
from
the
source
registry
onto
the
toucan
meta
registry,
in
a
way
where
there's
a
publicly
verifiable
one-to-one
link
between
the
off-chain
version
and
the
on-chain
version,
that's
very
important
because,
above
all,
toucan
is
designed
to
preserve
the
integrity
of
the
carbon
market.
So
we
need
to
make
sure,
there's
no
double
issuance.
B
There's
no
double
spending
and
and
a
big
part
of
that
comes
from
making
sure
that
this
this
bridging
process
can't
be
manipulated
once
they're
bridged.
These
carbon
tokens
are
represented
on
the
two
can
of
meta
registry.
This
is
a
essentially
smart
contract
based
system
for
representing
carbon
tokens
from
all
of
these
different
projects
and
vintages
as
cryptographic
tokens
as
erc20
tokens.
These
tokens,
the
carbon
tokens,
have
global
instant
settlement.
There
are
the
double
spend
protections
that
consensus
networks
and
blockchains
afford.
B
A
B
Is
a
smartphone
and
the
to
be
able
to
download
a
mobile
application
while
a
wallet
app
and
you
can
hold
and
buy
and
sell
and
retire
carbon
tokens
just
like
that,
including
in
fractionalized
units?
So
you
don't
even
need
to
own
one
full
carbon
token.
Often,
carbon
tokens
are
quite
inexpensive,
so
owning
one
or
many
is
not
a
big
deal,
but
there
are
certain
vintages
and
methodologies
that
are
more
expensive
and
that
fractionalized
access
is
is
quite
exciting.
It's
also
quite
exciting
from
a
retirement
perspective
at
the
moment.
B
Typically,
what
happens
in
the
the
legacy
registry
systems
is
retirements
are
bundled
up
on
behalf
of
many
end
users
and
performed
in
one
bulk
kind
of
retirement
event,
usually
by
hand,
often
manually
this.
This
retirement
is
done
and
with
toucan
fractionalized
retirements
are
now
possible,
natively
possible
and
it's
quite
easy
to
automate
the
retirement
process,
there's
sort
of
like
out-of-the-box,
open
api
access
to
the
system
for
writing
and
also
for
reading.
So
that's
the
last
point
there
this
this
open
data
access.
B
We
have
the
ability
to
query
the
toke,
the
two
can
meta
registry
and
fetch
information
about
balances
or
accounts.
The
portfolio
of
a
particular
account
the
different
holders
of
a
particular
project
are
vintage,
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
so
all
together.
This
means
that
token
has
built
a
better
carbon
ledger
that
runs
on
blockchain
that
runs
on
smart
contracts.
B
As
I
mentioned
a
bit
earlier,
carbon
voluntary
carbon
markets,
while
it's
a
global
on
regular
market,
it
is
also
a
quite
a
heterogeneous
asset
class,
because
one
carbon
token
or
carbon
credit
excuse
me
does
not
is
not
fungible
with
another.
The
vintage
matters
the
year
that
the
climate
impact
took
place.
The
project
manages
matters,
the
location,
matters
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
and
what
this
does
is
it
fragments
liquidity
and
means
that
it's
difficult
to
find
a
transparent
price
for
carbon
credits
of
a
certain
standard?
B
B
It
has
to
possess-
and
I
explained
a
bit
earlier
how
we
tag
each
credit
contract
with
this
sort
of
standardized
attribute
taxonomy
that
becomes
useful
here,
because
we
have
this
machine
readable,
attribute
taxonomy
that
can
be
filtered
at
the
the
carbon
pools
layer
and
then
the
outcome
of
this
is
you
end
up
with
a
carbon
reference
token,
which
is
one
single
fungible
liquid
carbon
reference?
Token
that's
unique
to
that
particular
carbon
pool.
B
If
you
buy
one
nct,
we
have
two
two
carbon
pools
at
the
moment:
the
base
carbon
pool
and
the
nature
carbon
pool,
each
of
which
have
carbon
reference
tokens
associated
the
base,
carbon
ton
and
the
nature
carbon
ton.
If
you
buy
one
nct
token
or
hold
one
nct
token,
that
means
you
have
the
right
to
redeem
that
token
for
an
underlying
carbon
token,
that
is
from
2012
or
greater,
and
that
is
based
on
a
nature-based
methodology
as
defined
by
vera.
B
I
see
there's
a
a
a
thing
in
the
chat
I
want
to
make
see
which
wall
can
we
map
to
get
carbon
tokens
great
I'll,
explain
in
a
second
well,
any
any
ethereum
compatible
wallet
can
be
used
to
any
ethereum
compatible
can
be
used
to
hold
carbon
tokens.
Carbon
tokens
can
be
held
in
any
ethereum
account,
and
I'm
gonna
explain
maybe
a
bit
more
about
that
in
a
minute.
But
at
the
moment
the
two
chem
protocol
is
running
on
the
polygon
blockchain,
which
is
a
proof-of-stake
blockchain.
B
B
So
in
any
case,
these
are
the
dating
criteria
for
the
base,
carbon
ton
and
the
nature
carbon
ton
bct.
In
order
to
deposit
a
carbon
token
to
the
base,
carbon
pool
has
to
be
from
2008
or
later
it
needs
to
be
a
vcu
from
vera,
which
is
actually
the
only
carbon
credits.
We
have
bridged
onto
the
system
at
the
moment
and
we
don't
allow
hfc
23
credits
to
be
deposited.
B
B
These
are
the
two
liquid
carbon
reference
tokens
that
we
have
on
the
two
camp
protocol
and
I
kind
of
go
to
the
lengths
to
explain
this,
because
it's
pretty
fundamental
to
the
upcoming
section,
where
I'm
going
to
talk
about
what
does
it
mean
when
we
talk
about
building
a
regenerative
financial
system
and
embedding
climate
action
and
weaving
it
into
the
fabric
of
the
way
our
financial
system
works?
But
this
is
this
is
sort
of
the
the
essence
of
what
toucan
has
done
to
date.
B
B
So
we
are
in
discussions
and
thinking
about
what
the
next
carbon
pools
are
going
to
be
and
more
than
that,
how
do
we
empower
the
community,
and
especially
the
carbon
market
experts
to
identify
and
design
what
the
optimal
carbon
pools
are,
so
that
we
can
make
sure
that
the
market
gets
served?
Market
needs
get
served,
but
also
that
we
kind
of
balance
that
against
getting
enough
liquidity
into
these
carbon
pools
for
them
to
be
useful,
useful
and
to
be
able
to
create
liquid
markets
and
so
forth,
so
right
moving
forward
right.
B
So
the
essence
of
this
is
that
carbon
markets,
the
idea
is
that
they
help
to
put
a
price
on
polluting
the
atmosphere.
That's
one
dimension
of
why
carbon
markets
exist.
So
it's
a
market-based
mechanism,
that's
intended
to
incentivize
the
transition
to
a
green
economy
and
the
way
I
really
think
about
this
is
carbon
markets.
Are
our
carbon
credits
essentially?
Are
a
tokenized
tokenized?
B
But
it's
I
don't
think
it
necessarily
needs
to
be
constrained
to
just
matching
with
pollution.
There
are
other
use
cases
for
carbon
credits
that
don't
have
anything
to
do
with
the
pollution
of
the
sort
of
demand
side
of
the
market
and
personally,
actually
I'm
something
I'm
quite
excited
about.
So
here
is
just
a
little
graphic
to
explain
some
of
the
benefits
of
what
toucan
does,
with
a
quote
from
k:
rayworth
who's,
one
of
my
favorite
thinkers
in
the
regenerative
economic
space.
B
But
we
want
to
try
to
improve
the
flow
of
that
money
so
that
we
can
scale
up
supply
and
ultimately
do
more
to
stabilize
stabilize
the
climate.
So
with
toucan,
we
remove
a
lot
of
these
middlemen
and
replace
them
with
this
transparent
economic
code
in
the
form
of
smart
contracts
and
create
a
system,
that's
open
to
all
much
easier
to
access
and
that
unifies
liquidity
so
that
we
can
have
much
more
efficient,
transparent
markets
running
all
right.
B
Is
great,
but
what
can
we
build
with
tokenized
carbon
credits?
What's
the
purpose
here?
What
does
it
mean
to
embed
regenerative
embed
climate
action
into
the
fabric
of
our
of
our
economy?
This
is
a
quick
graphic
just
to
show
all
of
the
different
use
cases
and
applications
we
can
think
of
related
to
toucan,
and
there
are
many
more
that
we
can't
think
of,
but
there's.
B
Obviously,
this
idea
of
offsetting
and
people
purchasing
these
carbon
credits
to
retire
and
that's
the
sort
of
most
common
use
case
now,
but
it's
also
a
useful
financial
instrument
and
can
be
used
as
collateral
for
loans
or
stable
coins.
It
can
be
potentially
used
to
generate
yield.
It
can
be
used
in
gaming
or
some
sort
of
like
digital
art
and
collectibles.
B
B
We
create
a
new
building
block
for
the
decentralized
finance
world
that
they
can
automatically
incorporate
with
the
rest
of
what
they've
been
building,
because
it
is
compatible.
As
a
fungible
token,
here
is
a
list
of
just
a
few
of
the
projects
that
are
building
with
toucan
carbon,
and
this
is
kind
of
very
early
days
and
already
we
have
this
really
amazing
range
of
people
that
are
coming
out
of
the
woodwork
to
build.
So
we've
got
people
building
carbon
viewers
and
explorers
that
want
to
make
the
experience
of
discovering
and
buying
carbon
credits
delightful.
B
There's
a
couple
of
projects
that
are
looking
at
backing
currencies
with
carbon
credits,
so
using
carbon
tokens
as
collateral
for
currencies.
Klima
dow,
is
obviously
a
big
one,
but
kumo
dao
is
a
really
exciting
one
that
is
progressing
progressing
nicely.
There
are
automatically
integrations
that
can
happen
with
other
decentralized
finance
projects.
B
B
This
is
giving
consumers
the
choice,
people
the
choice
to
make
their
climate
impact
or
their
their
blockchain
activity,
carbon
neutral,
just
by
default
by
the
term
protocols
of
this
cool
system,
where
you
essentially
buy
an
nft
and
hold
in
your
account
and
all
of
the
transactions
from
that
account
are
automatically
offset
menthol.
Does
it
another
way,
there's
already
different
ways
of
of
approaching
this?
We've
got
others
that
are
doing
really
exciting
work
on
thinking
about
the
next
generation
of
environmental
assets.
On
blockchains
regen
network
moss
has
been
doing
great
work.
B
They
introduced
one
of
the
earliest
on-chain
carbon
credits
in
in
the
whole
in
the
in
the
world
and
are
definitely
og's
in
the
space
and
there's
also
work.
You
can
do
where
you
can
build
games
or
digital
collectibles
and
digital
art
with
with
carbon.
So
all
this
is
just
pointing
at
this
idea
that
by
tokenizing
carbon
we
can
bring
enhanced
utility
to
this,
and
I
think
where
we
want
things
to
head
is
as
we,
the
blockchain
based
financial
system
develops,
that
and
progresses
and
and
gains
market
share.
B
Essentially,
we
want
climate
action
to
be
built
into
the
infrastructure
of
the
financial
applications
that
we
use
every
day
so
that
it's
not
a
box
that
we
take
at
the
end
of
the
form
right
that
this
is
a
kind
of
automatic
inextricable
piece
of
our
financial
infrastructure
and
just
by
having
money
just
by
holding
money.
Just
by
using
money,
we
are
contributing
to
regenerating
the
earth.
B
B
Great,
I
think
that's
time
I
I
imagine
we're
probably
about
at
20
or
25
minutes.
So
it's
been.
It's
been
a
pleasure.
Thank
you
so
much
for
for
listening,
and
I
would
love
for
us
to
shift
to
questions
I
I
know
I
saw
a
couple
pop
up
in
the
chat
and
we've
got
a
few
here.
Okay,
so
which
wallet?
Can
we
map
to
get
carbon
tokens
so
as
a
a
project
building
on
an
evm
compatible
blockchain,
which
is
polygon
any
evm
compatible
wallet?
B
You
can
configure
to
hold
carbon
tokens,
so
that
means
you
can
use
metamask.
You
could
use
coinbase
wallet,
there's
several
you
could
use
status.
I
think
xerion
has
a
wallet
coming
out
soon.
Maybe
so
all
of
this
you
can,
you
can
hold
on
any
ethereum
account
interacting
with
toucan,
does
require
you
to
use
metamask,
because
that
has
the
best
support
for
interacting
with
decentralized
applications.
B
Okay,
hi
john
is
this
is
from
jinji
is
toucan
working
to
define
standards
with
the
industry
across
several
registries.
Have
you
participated
in
initiatives
such
as
task
force
and
scaling
voluntary
carbon
markets
and
regarding
credits
that
were
already
tokenized
in
other
places?
Will
you
accept
them
into
pools
or
do
the
tokens
on
the
pools
need
to
be
generated
by
two
again
great
great,
great,
great,
great
questions?
So
are
we
working
to
define
standards?
Yes,
we
are
working
to
define
designers.
B
We
have
been
engaging
with
various
industry
players
from
across
the
ecosystem.
We've
been
speaking
with
several
standards
bodies.
We've
been
speaking
with
carbon
brokers,
we've
been
speaking
with
projects,
project,
originators
project,
financing
people
just
to
make
sure
that
we
are
building
with
our
community
and
and
making
sure
that
we
understand
their
needs.
I
think
yes,
we
are
starting
to
work
with
the
registries
to
figure
out
how
they
can
most
capably
interoperate
or
integrate
with
tokenized
carbon
based
on
blockchains,
and
we've
been
really
excited
by
how
essentially
how
positive
and
forward-thinking
they
are.
B
B
How
do
we
manage
technical
risk
making
sure
we
really
think
through
the
technical
aspects
of
our
system
as
we're
building
it
making
sure
we
got
audits
performed
by
top
auditing
companies
that
can
review
our
code
with
an
independent
eye
and
see
if
there
are
any
places
where
there
were
issues
that
might
arise
and
so
forth,
but
we
also,
there
are
other
other
types
of
of
challenges
here.
We
need
to
consider
the
legal
implications
of
what
we're
doing
what
is
the
status
of
a
tokenized
carbon
credit?
B
How
do
we
make
sure
that
users
are
protected?
How
do
we
make
sure
that
appropriate
identity
checks
are
being
taken
into
account?
The
right
places
of
the
system,
while
also
making
sure
that
the
markets
are
opened
up
to
as
many
people
as
possible,
and
all
these
are?
Are
things
we've
taken
into
account
and
we're
also
working
through
with
these
representatives
that
we're
just
talking
with
from
a
range
of
industry
bodies?
B
So,
yes,
in
a
word,
yes,
we
are
working
to
define
the
standards
and
to
make
sure
that
this
is
done
in
a
way
that
is,
managers
risk,
while
also
is
moving
carbon
markets
forward.
So
we
can
scale
these
in
a
short
amount
of
time
and
therefore
obviously
drive
more
financing
to
projects
on
the
ground.
Regarding
credits
that
were
already
tokenized
on
other
places,
will
you
accept
the
new
tools?
This
is
a
really
important
question.
That's
a
really
good
question.
So
the
essence
of
this
is
carbon.
B
B
Yes,
it's
quite
important
to
us
that
these
the
interoperability
is
preserved,
and
we
do
feel
like
we
haven't
actually
hit
had
to
make
the
final
answer
to
that
question.
So
it
may
end
up
being
a
case-by-case
basis
if
we
feel
like
a
project,
doesn't
have
adequate
kind
of
integrity
and
security
checks
in
place
and
that
there's
risk
of
double
issues.
We
may
not
accept
them
into
two
chem
pools,
but
if
they
adhere
to
a
credible
process
for
tokenizing
carbon
credits,
then
I
think
we
will
want
to
accept
them
into
two
cans.
B
Carbon
pools,
great
from
christian.
How
do
you
present
prevent
the
destruction
of
value
by
pooling
the
price
of
any
token
in
the
pool
will
always
be
equal
to
the
value
of
the
lowest
lowest
value?
Token
in
the
pool.
This
is
another
great
question,
christian,
so
you're
driving
out
a
bit
more
of
a
sophisticated
aspect
of
the
two
cans,
carbon
pool
modules.
So
exactly
as
you
identify
in
this
pool,
there's
going
to
be
carbon
tokens
from
a
spectrum
of
kind
of
attribute
sets
and
quality
levels
right
value
levels.
B
There
might
be
a
one
token
in
the
pool
that
can
be
bought
and
sold
on
the
market
for
ten
dollars
and
another
token
that
can
be
bought
and
sold
for
five
dollars,
but
both
of
those
back
the
same
fungible
token.
You
know
and
say
a
bct
and
bct
is
trading
for.
However
much
the
short
answer
is
that
when
a
carbon
reference
token
like
bct
or
nct,
is
redeemed,
you
receive
back
a
carbon
token,
but
then
the
question
becomes
which
carbon
token
do
I
get
right
and
we
are
you.
B
Essentially,
we
apply
a
fee
at
that
point.
If
people
want
to
choose
which
carbon
token
they
redeem.
So
if
you
wanted
to
redeem
bct
and
receive
the
default
carbon
tokens
in
the
pool
which
are
going
to
be
the
lowest
value
tokens
in
the
pool,
the
oldest
tokens
that
is
going
to
be
free,
there's
no
fee
to
redeem
bct
and
pull
out
the
carbon
tokens.
Because
that's
the
step
that's
required
to
perform
the
retirement,
you
can't
actually
retire
the
carbon
reference
tokens.
You
can
only
require
the
tco2
tokens
that
are
held
in
the
pool.
B
We
don't
want
to
put
barriers
in
the
way
of
people,
retiring
carbon
credits
right,
so
the
default
redemption
process.
There
is
no
fee
applied,
but
if
you
redeem
the
higher
quality
tokens
in
the
pool,
if
you
want
to
selectively
redeem
or
choose
which
carbon
tokens
you
receive
as
the
outcome
of
this
redemption
event,
then
there's
a
fee
applied
at
the
moment.
This
is
a
flat
fee,
it's
a
different
for
each
pool,
but
there's
like
a
flat
fee.
For
any
token,
we're
exploring
ways
to
build
a
more
nuanced
kind
of
pricing
system
into
our
redemption
process.
B
It's
tricky
because
one
of
the
problems
we're
trying
to
solve
is
that
there's
not
really
a
fair,
transparent
price
that
is
kind
of
market
wide
for
these
individual
carbon
tokens
of
different
projects
and
vintages.
So
it's
hard
to
figure
out
exactly
what
one
you
know
what
the
fee
should
be
applied
to
selectively
redeem
this
token
versus
that
token,
but
that's
something
that
we're
working
on
yeah.
I
think
that's
a
great
question,
so
yeah!
B
If
you
do
this
selective
redemption
process,
the
fees
that
we
take
a
portion
of
that
goes
as
revenue
to
the
two
camp
protocol.
So
we
can
sustain
our
operations
and
continue
to
grow
the
the
system,
but
another
large
portion
of
that.
In
fact,
in
on
the
nature
carbon
pool
is
50
of
the
fee
and
on
the
base
carbon
pool,
it's
80
percent
of
the
fee
is
actually
used
just
to
retire
tokens
held
in
the
carbon
pool,
so
five
percent,
if
you,
if
you
selectively
redeem
from
the
base
carbon
pool,
there's
a
10
fee
applied.
B
B
So
we
have
tagged
these
credits,
carbon
credit
contracts
with
those
specific
attributes,
including
the
co-benefits
and
that's
that's
important,
because
that
plays
a
big
role
in
what
the
value
of
those
credits
are
on
the
market.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
that's
visible
to
people
that
are
buying
carbon
tokens
on
chain,
whether
that's
visible
to
them.
If
they're
manually,
buying
and
kind
of
examining
it
in
some
kind
of
visualization,
maybe
a
dashboard
or
some
kind
of
you
know,
registry
where
they
can
go
select
which
tokens
they
want
to
buy.
B
But
it's
also
accessible
to
be
read
by
by
the
smart
contracts,
like
a
machine,
readable
form
of
that
information
is
also
accessible,
so
we
could
use
co-benefits
as
a
gating
filter
in
a
carbon
pool.
If
we
wanted,
we
could
create
a
carbon
pool
that
only
accepts
you
know:
credits
from
particular
with
that
possess
a
particular
co-benefit,
all
right
christian.
So
what
extensive?
What
incentive
is
there
for
the
originator?
This
is
also.
B
We
are
the
short
answer:
is
we're
working
on
this
at
the
moment
toucan
plugs
in
with
the
existing
carbon
market,
so
we
and
inherit
all
of
the
dynamics
of
the
existing
carbon
market
as
it
is,
and
the
truth
is
at
the
moment
old
carbon
credits
on
the
market.
The
originator
doesn't
really
have
anything
to
do
with
them
anymore
right.
They
were.
They
were
financed
and
typically
sold
long
ago,
and
there
are
the
project
financers
or
brokers
that
now
hold
the
credits
from
2012
2015
2008,
whatever
it
may
be.
B
B
What
incentive
is
there
for
the
originator
it
is.
It
is
possible
that
the
originator
now
has
markets
that
they
can
sell
directly
into
without
necessarily
needing
to
sell
to
a
buyer
if
they
brought
online
a
carbon
credit
that
matched
the
criteria
of
a
particular
carbon
pool.
They
could
issue
their
their
carbon
credits,
bridge
them
onto
toucan
and
sell
them
on
our
liquid
markets
on
the
liquid
markets,
running
on
blockchains
and
basically
kind
of
cash
out
on
day
one
without
needing
to
rely
on
anybody
else.
B
So
that's
that's
one
of
those
ways
in
which
toucan
helps
kind
of
minimize
counterparty
risk,
but
yeah.
It's
a
great
question
that
there
are
some
very
exciting
things
happening
in
the
blockchain
world
around,
especially
actually
in
the
nfp
space
of
how
do
we
make
sure
that
some
royalties
flow
back
to
the
artist
for
every
kind
of
subsequent
sale
and
so
forth?
B
And
that's
something
we're
thinking
about
it's
there's,
as
you
might
imagine,
there's
there's
quite
a
lot
of
complexities
in
building
this
kind
of
building
this
kind
of
system
so
that
it
can
operate
at
scale
and
explaining
you
know.
You
know
it's
one
thing
to
to
experiment
and
build
a
prototype
and
it's
another
thing
to
build
a
production,
scalable
market
kind
of
functionality
and
so
we're
essentially
in
the
r
d
phase,
with
with
some
of
those
ideas
of
of
kind
of
creating
a
perpetual
funding
stream
for
originators
and
so
forth.
A
Hey
yes,
thanks
john,
I
really
enjoyed
this
presentation.
Congratulations
on
the
success
you
had.
I
it
sounds
like
you've
been
there
since
the
kind
of
very
near
beginning,
and
one
of
the
things
that
the
the
sig
is
really
kind
of
focused
on
is
what
kind
of
like
a
sandbox,
and
we
want
to
kind
of
develop
proof
of
concept
and
kind
of
move
concepts
to
to
kind
of
market
and
build
buy-in
and
kind
of
build
networks.
A
B
A
B
Is
an
ongoing
process
we're
still
so
early
days
with
this,
so
I
mean
essentially,
toucan
is
a
system
that
allows
you
to
tokenize
real-world
assets
right
at
the
end
of
the
day
and
these
real
world
lessons
are
these
carbon
credits,
and
the
question,
of
course,
is
cool.
You
build
this
great
system
but
like.
B
It
was
just
demand
on
chain
for
people
buying
carbon
credits
from
brokers
in
the
legacy,
markets
and
kind
of
breeding.
So
that's
one
piece
is
we,
we
built
this
infrastructure
and
it
wouldn't
have
done
anything
if
it
weren't
for
demand
for
a
reason
to
engage
in
this
novel
technology.
So
I
think
that's
one
lesson
and
really
important
breakthrough
is
make
sure
that
the
demand
side
really
understands
the
value
of
what
you're
doing
and
why
they
should
do
something
and
on
well
for
better
or
worse,
the
the
short
answer
is
to
why
they
should
do.
B
A
B
So,
for
example,
recently
I've
been
talking
to
a
lot
of
people
and
they've
been
getting
really
excited
about
the
fact
that
with
toucan,
it's
very
easy
to
do
these
fractionalized
retirements,
where
I'm
I'm
saying,
I'm
offsetting
a
flight
that
I
go
on
to
europe
and
I
at
the
end,
want
to
say:
take
the
box
and
pay
whatever
it
is
a
dollar
or
something
to
offset
my
flight.
But
after
that,
I
kind
of
just
trust
that,
like
the
offsetting
takes
place
and
obviously,
if
they
didn't,
then
it
would
be
fraud.
B
But
I
don't
necessarily
get
anything
back
from
me.
Taking
that
box,
I
just
get
paid
an
extra
buck
and
feel
okay
about
it.
But
if
I
were
instead
kind
of
immediately
shown
a
dashboard
say
where
there
was
a
a
specific
retirement
that
was
performed
in
my
name
or
with
some
message
that
I
posted
in-
and
I
could
click
through
and
independently
verify
this
on
the
blockchain.
That's
a
really
compelling
value
proposition
for
a
lot
of
these
projects
that
are
essentially
like
demand
aggregators
for
offsetting
right.
B
They
they
allow
people
to
kind
of
like
pile
on
these
offices
and
then,
once
a
month,
they'll
say:
okay,
cool
our
customers
collectively
offset
2,
000
tons
of
carbon,
so
we're
going
to
perform
one
offset
event
manually
in
this
legacy
registry.
If
we
can
go
and
say
you
can
provide
a
much
better
customer
experience
by
giving
people
proof
that
they've
actually
taken
climate
action
at
the
asset
and
b,
you
can
automate
this
programmatically
and
you
don't
need
to
have
api.
You
have
api
access
to
the
registry
right
automatically.
B
You
don't
need
to
go
and
sign
up
and
get
an
account.
You
automatically
have
it.
I
think
that
that's
actually
been
quite
an
exciting
line
that
we're
exploring
with
a
couple
of
different
customers.
This
sort
of
automated
micro,
retirements
functionality,
so
that's-
and
I
think
that
actually
like
to
in
inspire
people
to
make
this
switch.
B
It
means
that,
ideally,
you
have
the
ability
to
make
their
life
much
easier,
the
ability
for
them
to
make
a
much
better
product
for
their
customers
and,
typically
honestly,
early
on
you,
you,
we
need
to
be
finding
the
the
customers
that
are
switched
on
about
this
stuff.
You
know,
there's
this
sort,
it's
just
a
classic
like
early
adopters
in
the
middle
and
then
the
sort
of
laggards
we're
looking
for
early
adopters
right.
B
Yeah
and
yeah
I
mean
yeah,
so
it's
basically
same
same
answer
as
usual.
If
anybody,
but
I
think
I
think,
a
key
piece,
there
is
yeah.
I
mean
a
lot
of
the
the
legacy
carbon
markets,
people
that
I've
been
talking
to.
They
understand
the
value
of
blockchain
right.
They
they
they
know
the
global
settlement.
They
know
reduced
counterparty
risk,
they
know
no
double
spend
like
they've
done
their
research,
and
so
a
lot
of
it
is
also-
and
I'd,
be
curious.
B
Actually,
for
your
perspective
from
hyperledger's
point
of
view,
when
we're
dealing
with
public
blockchains,
a
lot
of
the
hesitations
are
around
a
lot
of
the
common
conceptions
about
large
energy
usage,
there's
conceptions
about
it
being
open
to
scam
and
fraud.
You
know
all
these
are
our
legitimate
concerns,
and
so
that's
another
piece
is
like
education
and
kind
of
like
risk
management
dimension
to
it
that
maybe
maybe
hyperledger
doesn't
really
have
to
worry
about
because
as
an
enterprise
solution,
it's
you
know,
you
kind
of
avoid
a
lot
of
that.
A
lot
of
that.
A
A
B
A
B
B
I
have
this
really
strong
belief
that,
like
we're
going
to
end
up
in
a
world
where
there's
a
place
for
public
blockchains,
there's
a
place
for
permission,
blockchains-
and
you
know
it's
not
going
to
be
winner-
takes
all
it's
going
to
be
both
and
and
letting
a
lot
of
this
more
experimental
innovation
happening
in
the
public
space
once
that's
sort
of
pr
tried
and
true
and
proven
security,
then
shifting
it
on
to
the
permission,
ledgers,
and
so
I'm
looking
at
the
time.
I
I
see,
george
has
his
hand
up.
B
A
Hi
thanks
john
thanks
for
the
great
talk.
I
have
a
really
quick
question.
Actually
I
mean
I
think
it
should
be
a
quick
question.
We're
expecting
yeah
we're
expecting
a
big
change
in
the
building
regulations
to
require
projects
in
the
uk
to
certify
their
carbon
footprint,
but
we're
not
quite
sure
how
it's
going
to
be
monitored,
realized
or
if
it's
going
to
go
into
the
into
kind
of
a
trading
regime
like
it
doesn't
energy,
and
it
looks
like
it's
going
to
happen
in
in
transport
as
well.
B
A
B
Yeah
well,
so
I'm
not
super
familiar
with
that
particular
regulatory
development.
I
think,
generally,
you
got
two
pieces,
some
carbon
accounting
right,
there's
the
the
estimate
and
then
there's
the
retirement,
the
sort
of
balancing
using
offsetting
and
to
chem.
We
are
purely
focused
on
creating
more
sophisticated
functionality
on
the
offsetting
side
of
the
equation,
so
we're
really
interested
in
understanding
the
state
of
the
art
of
carbon
accounting
and
estimation
methodologies.
Most
of
the
people
that
come
to
talk
to
us
say
we
want
to
be
carbon
neutral.
B
B
So
yeah
so
the,
but
then
on
the
flip
side
of
this
on
the
off
setting
side.
Once
you
have
that
number
say:
okay,
10
tons
this
month,
I
don't
know
toucan,
as
I
said,
allows
for
this,
like
individual
retirements,
to
be
very,
very
easily
performed
and
essentially
to
produce
a
verifiable
evidence
that
a
retirement
took
place
to
match
with
an
estimation
and
essentially
prove
that
you
have
a
car
balanced
carbon
budget.
So
I
think
that's
one
dimension
that
these
blockchain-based
systems
that
allow
for
a
more
sophisticated
carbon
market
than
sophisticated
retirement
functionality.
B
Do
you
have
a
really
strong
role
to
play
in
helping
essentially
with
like
carbon
auditing
right?
I
I
I
make
this
claim,
but
can
I
prove
it?
Can
I
show
that
I
actually
made
this
retirement
and
is
it
a
bit
more
advanced
than
just?
I
got
an
email
from
somebody
that
said
that
I
did
this.
You
know
cool.
I
know
we've
got
some
questions
in
the
chat,
I'm
not
sure
if
I'm
going
to
be
able
to
get
to
them
all,
but
hey
robin.
B
B
Absolutely
yeah
so
on
email,
I'm
john
toucan.earth
and
then
I'm
also
on
twitter
at
johnx25bd.
That's
my
sort
of
username
across
the
across
the
internet.
So
if
you
want
to
get
in
touch
with
me
on
twitter,
my
dms
are
open
or
on
linkedin.
Actually,
that's
also
my
I'll
just
go
ahead
and
drop
my
linkedin
profile
as
well
in
here
now
and
linkedin,
and
then
I'm
afraid
I
would
love
to
hang
out.
But
I
do
have
to
run
so.
I'm
just
going
to
drop
here
and
then
john
thank.
A
You
very
much
for
joining
today
and
for
giving
the
great
presentation-
and
I
really
like
the
holistic
view
that
you
present
at
the
beginning
and
part
starting
with
a
particular
part
rather
than
trying
to
solve
all
the
problems
at
once.
And
thanks
for
for
your
work
at
zuken
and
for
making
the
time
today.