►
Description
A presentation on February 7, 2023 hosted by the Hyperledger Climate Action and Accounting Special Interest Group featuring Jan Stockhausen, Chief Legal Architect at Etherisc. Etherisc supports a decentralized insurance protocol to collectively build insurance products. We will hear about their efforts to develop insurance solutions in response to Climate Change. The presentation will cover what Etherisc's Generic Insurance Framework does generally and go into some of the use cases, especially focusing on those related to the carbon markets.
And if you're interested in how blockchain is being used in climate related use cases, you're welcome to join the Climate Action and Accounting Special Interest Group. More about the group is at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CASIG/
You can sign up to the group's mailing list to take part in discussions and get notified of upcoming meetings. Feel free to introduce yourself after signing up. You can subscribe at: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/climate-sig/
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
A
A
We
have
a
special
present
ation
today
by
Jen
stockhausen
from
etherisk
he's
a
chief
legal
architect
very
excited
about
this
presentation
before
that,
I
want
to
kind
of
go
through
a
couple
house,
housekeeping
action
items
and
and
then
make
a
make
a
kind
of
a
big
announcement
for
for
anybody's
joining
for
the
first
time.
Hyperledger
follows
the
anti
the
anti-test
policy.
So
if
the
very
bottom
of
this
meeting
page,
you
can
find
information
about
that,
as
well
as
a
hyperledger
code
of
conduct.
A
I
want
to
take
an
opportunity
if
anybody
is
joining
for
the
first
time
to
invite
you
to
introduce
yourself.
I
would
love
to
hear
a
little
bit
about
your
interest
in
the
Sig
and
how
you
found
out
about
us.
Is
there
anybody
on
the
call
today?
If
there
is
for
the
first
time
there
is
just
feel
free
to
speak,
raise
your
hand.
A
Okay,
we
are
all
we're
all
old
timers
here,
great
okay,
hello,
Dr,
James,
I'm
glad
you
could
join
us
so
very
quickly
for
just
a
reminder
of
everybody.
There
are
Technical
and
this
is
an
open
source
Community.
We
have
Technical
and
non-technical
opportunities
for
for
contribution.
We
have
them
listed
on
the
site
if
you're
more
interested
in
in
joining
some
of
the
technical
work
related
to
some
of
the
climate,
Accounting
Solutions
we're
building
around
emissions
tracking
I
highly
recommend
you
join
the
programming.
A
Calls
that
happen.
You
can
the
I
think
it's
every
Monday
I,
don't
know
you
can
find
it
over
here.
Underneath
the
meetings
I'm
not
going
to
mention
that
under
the
peer
program
he
calls
very
strong
development
communities
there
and
some
really
interesting,
Solutions
being
developed.
We
also
have
some
really
interesting
research
projects
underway,
so
I
invite
you
to
explore
that
as
well
through
the
research
working
group
and
also
sign
up
to
the
group's
mailing
list.
A
A
We
as
most
you
know,
we
launched
a
prototype
last
year,
got
several
different
Awards,
where
you're
in
the
process
of
trying
to
find
some
corporate
Partners
to
Pilot
some
solutions
with
it
and
been
working
with
Jeff
a
little
bit
about
targeting
some
of
the
different
industries
that
are
going
to
be
affected
by
the
carbon
border
adjustment
mechanism
in
Europe
and
trying
to
find
some
corporate
Partners.
So
so
really
excited
about
that.
A
A
Most
everybody
on
this
call
Who's
involved
with
hyperledger
those
who
kamlesh
is
he's
been
involved.
With
this
thing
since
the
beginning
he's,
you
know
been
a
member
of
the
technical,
the
technical
steering
committee
with
hyperledger
he's
the
he
kind
of
helps
lead
the
hyperledger
India
chapter
and
is
a
very
strong
influence
in
just
a
blockchain
ecosystem
Indian
as
a
whole.
He
brings
to
a
lot
of
experience
from
kind
of
just
a
technical
unders
from
the
technical
understanding.
A
We
also
understand
the
ecosystem
in
use
cases
and
what's
being
done,
and
so
we're
having
been
having
some
really
interesting
conversations
about
the
future
of
the
Sig
and
and
and
kind
of
potentially
potentially
expanding
the
focus.
The
scope
to
to
to
to
include
all
some
all
the
different
activities
that
have
been
having
in
in
the
climate,
space
and
I
think
that
kamlesh
is
going
to
be
really
valuable
in
helping
provide
guidance
there
and
Direction
cameras.
B
There
are
more
because
currently
we
are
focusing
on
the
carbon,
accounting
and
standard
and
other
thing.
But
I
think
climate
is
more
than
this
carbon
accounting,
because
there
are
lots
of
like
regenerative,
Finance,
sustainable
finance
and
I
think
multiple
efforts
happening
globally.
Any
even
I
I
have
updated
database
about
a
350
plus
projects
is
working
towards
the
climate
change
and
climate
action
so,
and
most
of
them
is
using
hyper
ledger.
B
So
maybe
in
the
this
new
role,
I
would
like
to
get
involved
all
these
people
who
are
working
on
the
on
the
climate
and
Hyper
Ledger
and
just
beyond
the
crypto,
just
beyond
the
carbon
accounting,
but
other
other
news
industry,
even
like
in
my
organization.
We
are
I'm
also
working
on
two
projects.
So
one
is
this
recycled
recycling
industry.
So
this
plastic
recycle
battery
cycling.
So
we
have
done
some
product
and
some
pilot
with
customer
and
another
kind
of
solution
where
the
the
sustainable
finance
and
green
financing
thing.
B
B
A
A
C
As
Sherwood
said:
I'm
a
young
stockhausen,
the
chief
legal
architect
of
ether
risk
we
met
indeed
at
the
cop27
and
miyad
was
a
an
exciting
environment
to
discuss
how
the
technology
can
play
its
part
in
in
in
the
challenges
that
climate
change
presents
us
with.
So
yeah
I'm
looking
forward
today
to
share
a
little
bit
of
information
about
what
we
do
and
and
how
decentralized
insurance
comes
into
fighting
climate
change.
C
The
team
is
basically
we're
a
team
of
senior
developers,
Insurance
Specialists
and
economists
and,
of
course,
also
a
lawyer
myself
with
a
few
years
of
in-depth
experience
in
blockchain
and
insurance,
we're
the
first
team
to
ever
deliver
an
insurance
Solution
on
the
blockchain
with
our
flight
delay,
product
in
2017.,
but
also
the
first
company
worldwide
that
has
implemented
a
smart
contract
driven
weather
index.
Insurance
Solutions,
which
we're
gonna
see
in
much
more
detail.
C
Let
me
explain
you
a
little
bit
about
the
generic
Insurance
framework
and
the
platform
and,
like
I
said,
is
based
on
ethereum
and
it's
completely
open
source
and
free
for
everyone
to
use.
It's
also
deployed
on
other
blockchains,
like
polygon,
Avalanche,
binance,
smart
chain
and
gnosis
chain,
and
also
students
going
recently
cello.
C
Essentially,
it's
a
collection
of
of
smart
contracts
that
Implement
basic
functions
of
the
life
cycle
of
insurance
products,
and
it
provides
a
toolkit
for
creating
blockchain
based
Insurance
Solutions,
where
a
similar
process
steps
are
available
as
modules
it
can
automate
a
variety
of
Insurance
products
and
project.
That's
currently
hosted
on
the
platform,
a
flight
delay
Insurance
product,
so
you
ensure
your
flight
against
delay.
C
Crop
insurance,
of
course,
which
we're
going
to
look
at
very
closely
today
and
there's
an
out.
An
external
team
is
working
on
Hurricane
protection,
so
there's
it's
not
by
all
by
any
means
only
climate,
Risk,
insurance
or
agricultural
insurance,
but
all
kinds.
The
the
GIF.
Also
it's
important
to
understand
the
the
GIF
connects
an
entire
ecosystem
of
services
providers
in
the
insured
technology
chain,
so
there's
data
services,
so
basically
satellite
weather
data,
for
example,
or
payment
networks.
C
The
product
designers,
who
divide
who
designed
the
insurance
products
from
the
Actuarial
point
of
view,
distribution,
Partners,
funders,
investors
Etc.
All
these
come
together
on
the
platform
and
essentially
in
very
simple
terms.
It
does
two
things:
it
automates
Insurance
products
and
also
it
offers
the
possibility
to
organize
risk
pools
with
collateral
directly
on
the
platform
on
chain.
C
So
this
is
this
is
pretty
new,
maybe
quickly
to
set
a
little
bit
to
sort
of
the
background
of
how
our
work
and
decentralized
insurance
comes
into
climate
action
and
basically,
it
relates
in
our
work
relates
to
climate
change.
In
several
ways:
agricultural
Insurance,
like
I,
said
we
are
quite
known
for
agricultural
Insurance.
C
This
provides
a
tool
for
adaptation
for
to
the
effects
of
climate
change
and
helps
building
resilience
of
of
smallholder
farmers
and
and
other
low-income
vulnerable
communities
in
the
Emerging
Markets,
especially
it
connects,
or
we
could
also
work
on
connecting
Farmers
to
the
carbon
markets.
So
this
can
produce
additional
incomes
a
lot
of
for
the
smallholder
farmers.
C
Sorry
arrogance,
the
risk
of
reversal-
and
this
obviously
has
the
potential
to
increase
the
confidence
of
investors
in
the
carbon
markets
and
stabilizing
the
carbon
markets
to
a
certain
extent.
So,
let's
start
with
agricultural
Insurance,
maybe
sort
of
weak
reference,
so
easy
risk
is
most
visible
in
the
agricultural
Insurance
space
at
the
moment.
We're
focusing
on
use
cases
that
utilize
blockchain
technology
to
automate
agricultural,
so-called
weather
index
Insurance
products
to
protect
Fox,
smallholder
farmers
and
emerging
economies
from
the
devastating
effects
of
climate
change.
C
C
C
Most
Farmers,
don't
really
trust
insurance
companies
that
is
related
to
the
third
problem,
which
is
very
slow
payout,
so
and
Farmers
have
reported
to
us
when
we
were
in
the
field
in
Kenya,
they've
reported
that
they've
waited
up
to
three
or
six
months,
sometimes
a
year
or
two
years
for
their
insurance
payment,
and
this
is
absolutely
not
acceptable
and
Farmers
cannot
wait
that
long.
They
are
they.
They
are
subsistence
Farmers.
They
live
off
the
crop
that
they
cultivate,
so
they
absolutely
need
an
insurance
payment
much
faster
than
that.
C
So
the
solution
that
we
are
bringing
is
is
an
Innovative
Insurance
product
that
is
completely
automated
on
the
basis
of
insurance,
smart
contracts
on
the
blockchain
to
provide
a
much
more
efficient
and
much
faster
and
also
cheaper
weather
index
Insurance
solution.
So
this
obviously
has
a
covers
a
a
whole
number
of
sdgs,
but
let's
go
and
have
a
look
at
at
the
solution.
C
So
let's
look
at
a
little
bit,
maybe
at
our
first
parametric
weather
index,
Insurance
solution
that
we've
built
on
the
blockchain,
together
with
a
Kenyan
insurance
services
provider
called
acre
Africa
they're,
one
of
the
larger
ones
on
in
in
sub-Saharan
Africa
they're
active
in
a
number
of
countries
and
and
backed
by
a
large
seed
producer
called
syngenta
and
and
also
zebri
and
pan-african
reinsurance,
Company
and
building
on
a
first
pilot
that
we
actually
had
with
Oxfam
and
Aeon
in
Sri
Lanka.
We
are.
C
C
So
when
the
farmer
buys
the
supplies
their
seats
at
the
at
the
beginning
of
the
Season,
then
each
bag
of
seeds
would
have
one
of
those
scratch
cards
that
you
see
here
at
the
bottom
center
in
the
picture
and
they
would
find
the
scratch
card.
And
if
you
uncover
that
that
gray
field
you
you
find
the
number
and
and
that
number
we
see
on
the
next,
when
the
farmer
then
plants
a
seed,
he
can
uncover
this.
C
This,
the
secret
number
and
send
it
through
the
ussp
function,
essentially
an
SMS
from
his
feature
phone.
So
he
doesn't
need
a
smartphone
directly
into
our
system
and
that
provides
the
necessary
personal
and
agricultural
information
from
from
that
text
message.
Essentially
we
from
the
number
that
he
texts
us.
We
know
which
crop
he's
planting,
because
we
know
where
the
card
was
placed.
C
C
All
payments
are
channeled
through
the
the
East
African
and
PESA
Mobile
payment
system,
and
so
under
the
hood,
the
insurance,
the
smart
contract
will
sort
of
once
he
we
received
the
data
by
ussd
from
the
farmer.
We,
the
insurance
contract,
is
active
and
will
start
autonomously
to
track
where
the
data
relevant
to
the
farmer's
policy
in
the
farmer's
location.
C
If
you
see
my
cursor
and
so
in
the
top
left
corner,
we
see
Africa
they're,
the
ones
who
have
developed
the
insurance
product
as
such,
they
don't
actually
they've
done
the
Actuarial
work.
They
do
the
project,
project
management
and
they
have
very
importantly,
the
customer
relations
through
a
network
of
Village
Champions
that
as
those
on
the
ground
and
and
and
and
have
direct
contact
with
the
farmers.
C
C
Then
we
have
moving
to
the
top
right
corner
Arc
to
weather
data
satellite.
That
is
where
we
get
the
meteorological
data
from
that
goes
into
the
smart
contract
and
then
bottom
right.
We
see
m-pesa,
which
is
the
mobile
processing,
Payment
Processing
Network,
and
then
you
have
the
distribution
which
is
through
these
Farm
input
suppliers,
and
then
we
we
reach
these
Farmers.
So
it's
this
setup
is
is
pretty
much
transferable
in
in
other
cases,
as
well
sort
of
results
of
this.
C
The
solution
has
huge
potential.
We
the
premium
reductions
that
we've
achieved
after
the
first
season
were
up
to
30
percent
and
we
were
able
to
reduce
the
claim
cycles
of
sort
of
when
the
farmer
receives
the
payment
from
three
to
six
months
to
less
than
a
week.
40
of
the
payments
were
actually
made
in
in
the
first
24
hours.
C
So-
and
this
is
very
importantly,
this
is
after
the
farmer
has
has
had
too
much
or
too
little
rain
and
not
while,
while
the
traditional
Insurance
solution
would
wait
until
the
season
is
over
and
then
you'd
have
to
wait
three
to
six
months.
So
it's
it's
it's
it's
really
a
huge
difference
and
farmers
were.
C
Transaction
cost
was
reduced
by
eighty
percent
and
the
customer
experience
50.
Eight
percent
of
the
farmers
reported
an
improved
onboarding
and
communication
and
access
to
information
experience
because
we
had
also
given
them
an
SMS
function
where
they
can
basically
request
the
policy
status
at
any
given
time.
So
so
this
is,
and
we're
very
pleased
with
with
these
Solutions
and
Farmers,
actually
use
this
SMS
to
I.
Think
80
of
the
farmers
use
it
once
a
week.
C
So
it's
it's
been
a
success
so
far
and
based
on
the
success
we've
also
been
invited.
I
mean
we're
continuing
to
work
with
with
Aika
and
I.
Think
we're
now
in
the
in
the
fourth
season,
and
so
it's
it's.
It's
we're.
Adding
new
data
sources,
we're
adding
additional
products
and
and
also
now
just
sort
of
off
the
printing
press.
C
C
Next
out
of
this
work,
we've
also
been
ended
up
in
conversations
about
connecting
Farmers
to
carbon
markets.
So
I
think
this
is
quite
interesting
to
share
as
well
and
I'm
gonna
sort
of
mention
a
few
of
these
conversations,
we're
having
at
a
fairly
Advanced
stages,
some
of
them
so
maybe
as
a
pretext.
C
I
said
our
technology
can
reduce
operational
costs
by
80,
which
is
only
a
part
of
the
overall
premium,
so
it
like
I,
said
it
resulted
in
30
lower
premiums,
which
is
good,
but
it's
still
quite
an
expensive.
Insurance
is
quite
expensive
for
farmers,
so
we
believe
to
really
Drive
a
paradigm
change
and
we
really
must
find
other
sources
of
of
or
other
revenue
streams
to
subsidize
the
premiums
for
the
farmers.
C
C
It
would
achieve
a
sort
of
a
direct
asset
transfer
from
North
from
the
global
North
into
the
global
South
and
for
in
exchange
for
those
generated
carbon
offset
Farmers
would
become
more
resilient
not
only
through
the
income
but
also
through
the
insurance
that
could
be
included
in
such
programs.
So
that,
obviously,
then,
would
improve
food
security
and
then
also
sort
of
help
with
or
a
counteract
land
degradation.
C
So
that's
that's
a
quite
an
interesting
one
and
we
were
basically
asked
to
provide
an
insurance
because
the
farmers
were
reluctant
to
onboard
it
to
the
program
because
there's
a
understandably
said:
well,
we
have
a
certain
traditional
way
of
farming,
rice
and,
and
it's
worked
for
us
and
now
you
ask
us
to
change
this.
So
what?
C
So
it's
of
course
it's
it's
with
these
larger
ngos.
It's
always
a
a
long
process.
Another
thing
that
I
would
like
to
comment
on
is:
we
are
also
exploring
possibilities.
I've
mentioned
the
distribution
approach
that
we
have
in
in
Kenya
with
Aika
Africa
and
we're
basically
bundling
the
distribution
of
the
insurance
product
with
the
seeds
and,
of
course,
you
could
also
bundle
it
with
certain
products
like
decarbonized
fertilizers
or
special
seeds,
locking
carbon
in
the
in
the
soil
also
there.
C
You
could
also
then
create
a
program
where
the
farmer
generates
carbon,
Traders
and,
and
that
can
subsidize
its
insurance
m.
We've
also
submitted
a
a
funding
application
to
the
ensure
resilience
solution,
funds
with
the
Consulting
of
of
actors
in
order
to
ensure
coffee
Farmers,
who
are
practicing
agroforest
tree
farming
in
in
Uganda.
C
So
there's
a
there's
a
lot
of
these,
these
these
programs
out
there
and
and
we're
trying
to
we're
trying
to
sort
of
help
them
find
a
platform
to
to
process
all
this
and
also
link
this
in
with
an
insurance
and
also,
of
course,
our
and
our
our
partner,
AKA
Africa
is
also
looking
into
strategies
to
get
the
activate
the
farmers
for
carbon
farming.
So
this
conversation
going
on
about
biochar
and
also
about
ensuring
basically
forests
and
reforestation
projects,
and
that's
actually,
where
we've
come.
C
What,
if
that
Forest
burns
down?
So
this
brings
me,
then
the
columns
back
in
the
air-
and
that
brings
me
to
our
sort
of
the
next
subject,
which
is
ensuring
carbon
offsets
so
with
tourist
and
floodlight
and
chain
link.
We've
sort
of
we've
identified
that
problem
and-
and
we
were
basically
worked
on
a
a
proof
of
concept
together
with
them.
C
C
And
for
that
they
have
their
onboard
Farms
or
apparently
they
have
their
own
patches
of
land
where
they
plant
the
trees
and
and
on
board
Farmers
that
are
basically
planting
trees
on
on
their
land
and
each
tree.
That's
very
interesting,
I
think
each
tree
is
basically
represented
as
an
nft
on
the
blockchain.
Basically,
they
call
this
very
fittingly
NF
trees
and
if
you
you
can
purchase
either
the
NF
trees
or
the
carbon
offsets
emanating
from
these
NF
trees.
C
So
so
we've
created
together
with
them
a
simple
Insurance
product
as
a
proof
of
concept
against
Natural
Disasters.
It
covers
Wildfire,
most
illustratively,
but
also
flood
and
storms
and
under
the
hood,
the
pro
the
product
is
essentially
a
two-tier
product,
as
we
can
see
here
on
the
left
side,
and
there
is,
there
are
two
elements.
There's
one
element
is
the
repayment
of
the
planting
costs
of
the
tree,
which
happens
in
actual,
let's
say
in
cash
or
in
this
case
usdc.
C
They
have
peace
of
mind
that
no
matter
what
happens
to
the
actual
physical
Forest,
they
are
carbon
neutral
because
of
this
insurance
problem.
So
I
think
so.
This
is-
and
this
is
I
think
an
interesting
new
type
of
insurance
product
which
I
believe
will
become
a
standard
in
the
insurance.
Sorry
in
the
carbon
markets,
because
this,
the
current
system
as
it
is,
has
not
really
solved
this
problem
of
what
happens
to
reversal
at
the
moment.
C
The
way
this
is
handled
in
the
carbon
markets
is
that
about
I,
think
10
or
15
of
the
credits
depending
on
the
situation
have
to
be
kept
in
a
reserve
and
that's
obviously,
a
very
inefficient
use
of
the
capital.
So
basically
the
the
certifiers
require
that
and
then
that's
very
inefficient
and-
and
this
could
be
better
so
insurance
mitigates
this
and,
of
course,
just
because
in
a
tree
is
insured.
C
Doesn't
mean
that
the
carbon
that
is
released
when
tree
burns
down
is
somehow
back
in
the
soil,
it's
still
in
the
atmosphere,
but
the
solution
helps
to
stabilize
the
carbon
markets,
as
it
eliminates
this
very
important
risk
to
the
permanence
of
the
purchase
common
offices
for
the
investors.
So
the
investor
knows
I
bought
an
insured
carbon
credit
and
I
am
carbon
neutral
and
I.
Don't
need
to
service
worry
about
what
happens
to
the
physical
project,
so
this
is
I.
C
Think
Bloomberg
very
recently
estimated
the
carbon
markets
will
increase
to
a
value
of
1
trillion
by
2037.
So
I
think
there's
a
significant
business
opportunity
here.
Also
for
this,
and
of
course
it
solves
some
of
the
problems
or
one
of
the
main
one
of
the
important
problems
of
the
traditional
carbon
Market
and,
of
course,
it's
become
very,
very
obvious.
In
the
the
the
recent
news
reporting
in
the
garden.
C
Also,
the
climate
action
Data
Trust
and
the
climate
Warehouse
they're,
building
already
on
on
web3
technology,
so
I
think
in
these
times
it's
very
important
to
realize
that,
although
the
tradition
of
carbon
markets
do
have
sort
of
problems
designed
into
them
like
removal
or
permanence
fraud
or
errors
in
the
verification
process,
double
spending.
There
are
those
problems,
but
it's
really
important
to
realize
they
are
still
the
best
instrument.
C
We
currently
have
the
channel
financing
Into
Climate
action,
so
no
one
has
an
interest
in
the
public
losing
their
confidence
in
these
markets,
but
it's
also
clear
something
needs
to
be
done
and
Technology
I
think
will
play
a
really
important
part
in
this.
So
an
easy
risk,
We
Believe
the
carbon
markets,
will
entirely
move
to
web3
technology.
In
probably
the
next
I
would
say
three
to
five
years.
As
my
personal
guess
and
and
insurance,
like
I
said
we
will
play
a
really
important
part
and
I
think
also
from
a
web
3
perspective.
C
Carbon
markets
could
be
the
first
sector
where
blockchain
technology
first
breaks
through
as
sort
of
them
to
mainstream
adoption,
as
as
the
dominant
technology
used
in
this
in
an
established
industry
sector.
So
I'd
be
very
interested
to
see
that
and
we
happen
to
find
ourselves
at
the
Forefront
of
these
developments
and
yeah.
It's
a
pleasure
to
to
sort
of
talk
to
you
about
this.
C
You
can
probably
tell
I'm
quite
emotional
or
quite
quite
enthusiastic
about
it,
but
yeah
we're
always
very
interested
to
to
to
speak
to
Partners
and
projects
who
are
interested
to
to
have
conversations
how
to
leverage
our
platform
and
and
make
the
common
markets
better.
So
I'd
I'd
like
to
conclude
with
that
thought
for
the
time
being
and
and
open
the
floor
to
some
questions.
If
we
just
enough
time
for
that.
E
Hi,
this
is
Jeff
probation,
I
just
had
something
I
don't
know.
If
it's
it's
helped
me
understand
the
carbon
Market
just
in
general,
it's
kind
of
a
short
question,
but
you're
talking
about
digitizing,
let's
say,
for
example,
a
tree
and
the
tokenizer
goes
to
nft,
because
I'm
making
this
I'm
not
sure.
If
this
is
right,
so
I'm
just
asking
you
this
this
question
as
the
tree
continues
to
grow
your
generating
additional
offsets
that
could
eventually
be
or
credits
that
could
be
traded.
Is
that
what's
occurring
when
somebody
buys
nft?
E
So
then,
if
the
Wind
Blows
the
tree
down
and
it
hits
the
ground,
the
carbon
is
still
sunk
in
it
and
it's
not
releasing
the
carbon
it
may
never.
If
it
gets
buried
with
dirt,
it
may
never
release
it
back.
How?
What
does
Insurance
then
pay
for
all
this
all
the
credits
that
it
generated
at
one
time
or
does
it
have
some
algorithm
that
says
I,
don't
know
what
rots
over
a
certain
amount
of
time.
It
releases
it
back
to
the
atmosphere,
that's
more
of
a
carbon
than.
C
So
it's
I
also
find
it
most
illustrative
to
use
the
the
insurance
of
wildfire,
but
it
we
were
able
to
cover
these
other
risks
as
well,
flood
and
and
and
storm,
and
you
are
right,
of
course,
when
the
tree
is
sort
of
pushed
over
by
a
storm.
It
doesn't
release
the
carbon
all
at
once
like
a
tree
that
burns
down,
but
nevertheless
it
releases
it
within
a
short
number
of
years.
C
While
the
tree
is
rotting,
is
my
understanding
and
and
and
so
so
I'm
really
awesome
to
know
expert
in
sort
of
decomposion,
the
decom
chemistry
of
decomposing
trees.
But
my
understanding
is
or
I
satisfy
myself
that
it
is.
It
doesn't
happen
instantly,
but
it's
it's
also
over
a
number
of
years,
a
lot
of
the
sort
of
compared
to
the
tree
if
it
had
grown
to
its
full
potential
and
had
absorbed
carbon
there's
a
huge
difference
between
needs
to
which
needs
to
basically,
okay.
E
E
C
For
now,
we've
built
the
tech
and
we've
proven
sort
of
the
the
that
the
tech
works,
and
this
is
very
much
focusing
on
the
web
3
element.
What
we
are,
of
course
not
doing.
We
are
the
insurance
platform,
so
coorest
are
the
ones
who
are
minting
the
the
NF
trees
and
and
the
CCO
two
tokens.
So
a
lot
of
what
what
happens
on
their
end
is
is
something
that
that
I
cannot
really
go
into
much
detail
about,
but
yeah
it's
it's
eventually.
C
D
D
That
that
they
reduced
they'll
then
sell
the
credit,
but
not
a
company.
Okay.
What
what
would
happen
is
that
I'm,
sorry
to
say
the
financial
Community
hijacked
that
system
and
when
told
and
looked
at
forests,
feels
and
said
well,
we
could
offset
or
create
calendar
and
credit
some
forests
and
Fields,
and
how
is
nobody
intention
so
there
was
no
real
work
done
in
terms
of
continuous
Improvement
and
Emissions
reduction.
So
what
emerges
a
system
where
the
the
polluter
is
happy
to
pee
right.
E
D
I
know
no
disrespect
to
what
they're
doing,
but
as
as
as
climate
change
happens,
a
lot
of
these
projects
will
be
at
a
risk
because
of
forest
fires
because
of
of
just
you
know,
draw
and
other
issue.
So
it
compounds,
you
know
the
the
whole
problem
and
we
are
not
doing
anything
to
reduce
emissions.
So
I
I'm
now
of
the
view
and
I
think
a
lot
of
practitioners
of
the
view
deck
in
setting
should
be
the
preferred
course
of
action
before
offsetting.
D
E
D
E
E
B
E
D
C
This
is
it's
true
that
is
a
this
problem
in
the
current
market
and
we
should
absolutely
or
or
sort
of
like
we're
just
the
insurance
element
somewhere.
It
has
a
small
part
of
the
current
markets,
but
of
course
absolutely
technology
should
be
also
driving
development
into
how
to
reduce
emissions
and
also
how
to
sequester
carbon
from
the
atmosphere
and
how
to
basically
take
it.
Take
it
remove
it
from
the
atmosphere
and
I.
Think
that's
that's
where
I
probably
disagree.
C
It's
there's
still
this
this,
the
the
sort
of
the
the
convenient
aspect
that
someone
who
says-
oh
I'll,
just
do
nothing
about
my
emissions
and
just
continue
to
Emit
and
then
I
just
buy
carbon
offsets
and
that
that
problem
is
of
course
yeah.
It's
every
Market
has
has
this
element
of
problem
that
and
that
you,
that
sort
of
people
use
this
Market
to
for
their
own
convenience
and
and
insurance
will
not
change
that
in
either
direction.
Probably.
C
But
what
you
will
be
interested
to
know
is
that
coolest,
for
example,
the
ones
who
were
working
with
they
are
hell-bent
on
only
certifying
carbon
offsets
that
come
from
basically
nature
based
removal
projects.
So
essentially
only
if
you
actually
take
carbon
out
of
the
air
rather
than
get
a
credit
for
not
having
created
the
same
emissions
you
could
have
or
not
having
sort
of
or
having
avoided
certain
certain
deforestation
initiatives.
C
I
I
agree
that
I
see
those
those
sort
of
those
credits,
critical
and
nature-based
sort
of
real
removal.
Credits
are
I,
think
higher
than
they
train
at
higher
value
in
the
carbon
markets,
because
I
think
a
lot
of
people
agree
with
you
and
and
have
seen
an
identified
these
problems,
and
this
is
still
I
believe
in
order
for
these
removal
credits,
for
example,
from
from
actual
reforestation
projects
where
you
basically
plant
a
new
forest
and
absorb
the
carbon
to
there's
all
kinds
of
risks.
Some
of
them
are
insurable.
C
Some
are
not,
and
and
natural
disasters
that
destroy
the
entire
Forest
is
a
risk,
and
if
you
want
that
part
of
the
market
to
work,
I
think
insurance
will
will
be
needed
and
it's
I,
don't
I,
don't
think
it
causes
harm
in
in
the
way
that
that
you
explain
but
yeah
that's
the
best.
I
can
do
with
that.
No.
A
B
Yeah
so
actually
currently
I've
seen
the
platform.
So
are
we
just
only
accepting
the
premium
and
Glenn
settlement
under
some
kind
of
cryptocurrency?
There
is
no
any
fiat
currency
currently
enabled,
because
mostly
this
could
be
the
regulatory
issues
in
other
countries.
If
you
want
to
expand
so
any
plan
for
that
one.
C
There's
there's
a
lot
to
be
said
for
also
pain
in
in
cryptocurrencies,
very
much
in
in
the
spirit
with
sort
of
the
the
the
D5
market
and
and
probably
likely
candidates
are
the
stable
coins
but
yeah.
There
is,
of
course,
certain
uncertainties
around
regulation
and
we're
obviously
very
careful
to
navigate
these,
and-
and
we
are
of
course
always
looking
to
be
compliant
with
national
markets,
where
Insurance
or
where
in
ensure,
where
local
actors
offer
Insurance
Solutions
and
use
our
technology.
C
A
Well,
Jen
we're
over
the
hour,
I
really
appreciate
you
coming
to
share
just
the
technology
and
also
your
approach.
I
I
thought
that
the
walking
us,
through
the
use
cases
and
and
the
Partnerships
is
really
helpful
for
us
to
also
understand
how
you're
pulling
this
together
and
how
your
developing
you
know,
use
cases
for
the
insurance
industry,
bringing
together
all
the
different
technology
providers.
It's
really
Illuminating
and
I.