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From YouTube: Money20/20 Europe 2017 - Distributed ledgers From proof of concept to real world adoption
Description
Day 3 Track 1 11 20
A
Good
morning,
everyone,
how
are
we
today?
My
name
is
Simon
Taylor
I'm,
the
chair
of
today's
track,
one
all
about
blockchain
and
distributed
ledger.
You
can
find
more
about
myself
and
what
we
do
at
11,
FS
at
1,
1,
FS
calm.
But
it's
not
about
me.
It's
about
a
wonderful
panel
today
and
the
panel
are
talking
about
to
my
mind
the
most
important
thing
when
talking
about
blockchain
and
del
T.
It
is
when
does
this
stuff
get
out
of
the
labs
and
when
does
it
become
real
I'm
sure?
A
B
Ok
good
morning,
everyone
so
I've
got
a
great
panel
today
briefly
introduce
myself,
and
then
we
go
around
the
group,
so
I'm
with
mantas
I
work
for
city
and
I've
been
involved
with
innovation
and
regulation
for
many
years
regulation.
Probably
too
many
years,
and
it's
really
quite
clear
that
regulators
are
all
asking.
What
should
we
regulate
and
the
industry
is
wondering
whether
they
can
actually
move
some
of
their
test
lab
activity
into
the
real
life
application?
B
C
Chain
is
a
blockchain
technology
company
based
in
San
Francisco.
We
work
with
companies
such
as
visa
on
NASDAQ,
Citibank
and
range
of
others.
I
have
been
out
in
San
Francisco
for
the
last
two
years,
moved
to
Europe
relocated
here
about
three
days
ago,
and
it's
a
very
fresh
and
you're
my
role
and
will
be.
You
know,
focusing
on
serving
our
clients
here
in
Europe
now,
Hennessy.
D
Obscure
so
interact
see
you
is
integration
and
development
company
focused
on
integrating
blockchain
technology.
Prior
to
that
we
had
10
years
of
experience
with
integrating
various
back
office
systems
was
primarily
financial
networks
also
have
done
over
200
of
banking
and
mi
projects
in
26
countries
so
worked
pretty
much
in
all
different
corners
of
the
world.
Also,
the
purpose
of
us
to
exist
is
to
bring
interoperability
to
systems
and
networks.
So
we
we
do
look
for
the
world
to
become
interoperable
and
enable
transactions
go
much
smoother
and
much
faster
than
today.
Great
Maya.
F
Crook
I
had
emerging
technologies
lab
at
well
Bank
Scotland
I
want
a
small
team
taking
the
shrink-wrap
of
emerging
technologies
and
for
my
sins,
I
helped
us
build
their
general
ledger,
so
it
wasn't
fashionable
to
being
ledges
now
that
distributed.
Ledges
are
fashion,
I
have
been
dragged
out
to
look
at
distributed
edges
and
how
we
can
apply
that
technology
to
improve
customer
experience,
user
cost
an
increase
of
evany
great.
B
So,
to
start
off,
we
have
suicidal
questions
to
really
think
about
what
the
audience
sees
in
terms
of
the
long
and
short
term
implications
of
blockchain
in
different
areas.
So
the
first
one
is
what
is,
in
the
long
term,
the
biggest
opportunity
for
distributed
ledger,
blockchain
five
to
ten
years:
kyc,
identity,
post
rate
finance,
regulatory
compliance
or
saving
the
whales
or
saving
nature
saving
humanity
from
robots?
Let's
have
a
look:
cross-border
payment
identity.
Okay,
do
we
ever
do
a
cut
at
some
point?
B
Okay,
so
there's
a
lot
of
excitement
about
cross-border
payments
as
well
as
identity,
trade,
finance,
I.
Guess
people
realize
that
it's
a
bit
more
complicated,
okay,
so
regulatory
compliance
like
no
one
cares
about
that.
That's
really
bad!
Okay,
so
I!
Guess
we
stop
this
moving
and
then
we
move
to
the
second
slider
question,
which
is:
what,
in
the
short-term,
is
the
biggest
opportunity
across
these
variables:
kyc,
identity,
security,
frustrated
payments,
compliance
and
saving
life?
Okay,
Haman's,
maybe
because
I
invited
all
my
payments
friends
to
come.
No,
there
must
be
some
correlation
here.
Okay,
why?
E
It's
not
something
as
practical
as
you
initially
think,
because
after
you
have
that
nice
little
lab
designed
to
your
see
it's
never
going
to
go
anywhere
other
than
proof
that,
maybe
you
can
do
it.
That's
because
of
regulatory
demands.
That's
because
at
some
point
all
the
parties
to
that
blockchain
and
it
is
a
collaborative
effort-
are
going
to
realize
that
everything
is
transparent.
And
do
you
really
want
your
competitors
to
know
exactly?
E
What's
coming
into
your
from
overseas
into
your
ledger,
do
you
really
want
to
share
with
others
exactly
what's
going
on,
or
do
you
just
want
to
be
able
to
immutably
recognized
that
these
were
transactions?
And
that's
why
I'm
much
more
in
doubt
of
that
I
actually
think
trade
finance
is
in
terms
of
banking
is
one
of
the
more
advanced,
because
there
is
such
a
growing
need.
B
C
I
mean
on
cross-border
payments.
We
will
do
something
with
Visa.
Visa
has
launched
a
product
called
visa,
b2b
Connect,
built
on
chain
software,
it's
a
cross-border
payment
platform
and
you
can
go
up
and
sign
up
now
to
be
one
of
the
banks
participating
in
a
pilot.
So
that's
probably
going
live
this
year.
It
is
going
live
this
year,
tech.
You
know
on
a
technical,
strict,
technical
basis.
It
is
live
right
now,
but
they're
signing
up
now
to
for
the
commercial
launch,
so
I'd
say
cross-border
payments
is
one
that's
coming
soon.
C
The
other
one
is
post
trade
settlement
for
securities,
so
working
with
Nasdaq
and
they
actually
launched
an
ad
like
link
two
years
ago,
so
a
marketplace
or
a
platform
to
trade,
Private
Securities
just
integrated
with
Citibank,
so
you
now
have
dollars
and
securities
on
this
block
to
network.
So
those
are
two
examples
of
things
are
alive
right
now
and
yeah
I'll
save
some
of
the
other
kind
of
use
cases
I'm,
not
abolition
on
some
of
them,
but
I'll.
Let
the
other
panelists
to
cover
those.
Yes,.
D
All
right
so
I'm
very
passionate
about
identity
and
kyc
use
case,
and
the
reason
for
that
is
that
it's
very
meaningful
blast,
short
term
and
long
term,
so
very
short
term.
We
see
the
interest
from
primarily
financial
institutions,
but
way
beyond
to
create
that
very
basic
infrastructure
of
identity
and
kyc,
either
within
their
organizations
across
the
front,
multiple
branches
and
Tootie's
or
as
a
consortium
effort.
Also
a
we're
proud.
Member
of
an
founding
member
of
hyper
ledger:
linux,
foundations,
projects
and
linux
foundation
within
hyper.
D
Laser
has
identity
working
group,
it's
being
people
re
bus
within
perotin
who
lead
that
effort,
and
it
brings
together
a
number
of
a
number
of
players
right
out
of
140
members
of
hyper
ledger
who
are
contributing
on
solving
that
identity
issue.
I.
Just
love
can
I
just
finish
this
out
also
the
longer
region
and
then
I
will
too
sure
be
happy
to
address
your
question
so,
on
the
longer
term,
there's
also
a
bigger
social
impact
and
potential
impact
around
identity.
D
E
I
just
want
to
say
that
identities,
everything
and
everyone
from
Rick
Richard
and
his
project
to
chain,
and
probably
you
the
minute,
you
start
designing
the
blockchain
thing
you
have
to
think
about
identity
of
the
process
of
the
security
of
the
person
of
the
organization
of
the
node.
So
identity
is
built
into
every
single
blockchain
project
that
you
hear
it's,
not
it's
not
only
identity
of
people,
and
we
have
to
keep
that
in
mind
when
we
think
about
it.
F
If
you
look
at
these,
let's
just
break
into
the
two
questions
you
asked:
one
was
long
term
or
short
term
in
the
long
term
and
the
large
wholesale
banks
problem
being
one
of
them.
The
reason
the
opportunity
is
Dale
the
size
of
the
prize
is
the
interbank.
We
can
reconciliation,
so
well
are
25
years
and
regarded
that
big
wholesale
banks
have
been
running
large
projects
to
get
to
single
sources
of
truth,
single
sources
of
calculation
inside
their
houses
and
those
projects
are
pretty
much
complete.
F
Actually,
the
promise
of
distribute
alleges
and
blockchain
is
that
inter
bank
reconciliation
and
the
reduction
of
the
next
25
years
worth
of
costs
and
the
back
of
the
bank,
that's
a
long-term
play.
The
short
term
you've
seen
us
break
cover
with
a
clearing
settlement
mechanism
and
world
series
deploy
that
at
the
republic
of
ireland,
with
the
five
banks
out
there,
cross-border
payments
I'd
agree
with
the
audience
is,
is
most
obvious.
One
of
reapplying
the
technology
which
is
in
its
infancy
is
an
immature
technology.
F
It's
got
a
store
value
improvement
to
do
that
in
the
Bitcoin
experiment,
and
it
is
also
Reuven
they
can
do
transfer
value
in
the
book.
Bitcoin
experiment
we
re
applying
that
to
cross-border
payments,
and
that's
most
obvious
one.
If
you
look,
though,
in
there
in
the
short
term
of
what
we're,
what
we're
going
to
likely
see-
and
the
next
you
know-
is
the
regulator's
starting
to
wake
up
and
realize
they
have
a
new
technology
to
regulators
with.
F
Currently,
they
can
only
do
two
things,
ask
for
more
data
and
ask
for
the
datum
in
a
different
way,
and
they
do
that
with
protocol
and
transport
to
use
the
technical
terms,
and
now
they
have
state
which
they've
never
had
before
an
ability
of
a
disability
are
to
allow
them
to
make
to
regulate.
Entities
come
to
consensus
before
the
data
comes
to.
The
regulator
means
that
they
can
outsource
push
back
upstream,
one
of
the
greatest
challenges
they
have,
which
they
stand
like
a
man
with
two
clocks.
F
They
don't
know
the
time
they
stand
inside
their
regulated
institutions
or
their
regular
stands
with
their
data
from
both
sides,
trade
reporting
being
the
best
example
I.
Do
a
trade
with
Barclays
Aki's
doesn't
read
with
me
when
the
regulated
trade
reporting
comes
back
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it
should
add
up.
It
doesn't
for
many
reasons,
but
it
doesn't
after
the
regulator.
That
is
the
biggest
problem,
especially
if
you
are
a
central
bank
who's
trying
to
get
a
macro
picture
of
things
like
liquidity,
inflows
and
outflows
overnight.
Funding
of
whichever
currency
you're
issuing.
F
B
Maybe
just
add
some
some
subs
from
my
side
I
mean
the
big
question
as
to
what
is
actually
lies.
Many
things
are
not
visible,
but
Kings
are
life
also
in
the
ancillary
world,
so
the
whole
Bitcoin
digital
ecosystem
is
something
that
is
clearly
connecting
to
banks
and
talk.
Today,
banks
often
not
prepared
to
process
transactions
coming
from
exchanges.
They
have
no
history
on
AML
and
risk.
B
They
don't
know
what
really
happen
in
the
Bitcoin
ecosystem
and
there
are
companies
out
there
that
started
to
provide
the
analytics,
blockchain
agnostic
across
AML
risk
and
even
different
regulatory
compliance
and
I.
Think
back
to
your
point
in
the
future.
This
will
be
solutions
for
regulators
to
deploy
to
constantly
see
the
rules
are
being
followed
and
to
even
instill
changes
of
rules
from
their
side
and
I.
Think.
B
That's
the
interesting
part
that
we're
seeing
the
bridging
of
this
sort
of
old
CEA's
banking
system
with
the
new
system
through
technology,
which
is
ancillary
to
the
actual
core
of
the
distributed
ledger,
but
I
agree
with
you
having
a
ledger
creating
so
much
more
data.
If
you're
really
ready
to
put
the
data
on
that,
then
you
can
use
in
different
ways
and
check
things
directly
and
still
have
the
data
protection
piece.
B
I
think
that's
the
future,
and
clearly
people
are
also
making
money
in
completely
different
areas
with
loyalty
or
government-led
projects
that
are
suddenly
showing
you
can
reduce
fraud
on
trade,
invoice,
less
they're
things
that
are
happening
that
are
actually
in
the
live
stage.
But
it's
true
at
a
large
infrastructure
scale.
We
haven't
seen
central
banks,
regulators
and
banks
coming
together
to
deploy
it
so
wishing
a
lot
of
government
initiatives
working
with
multiple
banks
and
bridging
with
regulators
on
fin
tech
bridges
to
test
things.
B
B
D
From
our
experience,
of
course,
as
integration
company,
typically,
we
work
with
customers
who
are
any
further
in
their
evaluation
of
the
technology
and
to
be
realistic.
So
it's
it's
tilt
will
take
time
for
technology
to
really
become
fully
scalable
to
the
needs
of
financial
industry.
So
particularly
like
even
this
week,
the
boost
we
saw
prospects
asking
like
okay
Kansas
do
fifty
thousand
transactions
per
second.
You
know
and
that's
why,
for
example,
in
hyper
larger
context,
there
is
a
working
group
on
scalability
and
performance,
and
this
is
work
in
progress
where
of
course
like
with.
D
If
it
would
take
10
minutes
to
process
transactions,
it
would
not
be
suitable
for
any
transaction
banking
or
payments
use
case
whatsoever.
So
from
our
experience,
we
are
working
with
pure
seasoned
pilots
in
numerous
numerous
specific
implementation.
So
it's
from
central
bank
use
case
from
K
by
C
use
case
from
trade,
finance
and
provenance
use
case,
data
tracking
and
management.
D
So
there
is
really
variety
of
cases
where
we
already
now
evaluate
what
could
like
how
we
could
put
that
into
existing
infrastructure,
because
it
would
be
naive
to
imagine
that
blockchain
implementation,
the
LT
implementation,
would
be
totally
on
on
its
own
in
the
loo
as
we
like
to
call
it,
a
back
office
systems
are
very
often
there.
It's
like
you
need
to
connect
to
Europe.
D
You
need
to
connect
to
various
data
sources
that
would
trigger
smart
contracts
so
that
they're
all
the
true
place
so
really
to
just
to
be
more
specific,
like
our
estimations
that,
within
the
next
12
months,
we'll
see
more
and
more
cases
of
shadowing
existing
processes
or
inventing
new
processes
within
financial
institutions.
But
it
will
be
like
further
along
the
road
to
really
adopt
a
new
massive
scale.
B
So
I've
got
a
question
from
the
audience
and
I
think
I'll
start
with
Eric
on
that
one.
So
the
classical
is
there
any
use
case
absorption
out
of
banking
administration
entities
and
governments
or
regulators,
and
what
can
blockchain
do
that
other
things
can't?
Is
it
just
not
a
better
database
so
and
I
think
that's
where
maybe
the
strategic?
Thank
you
sure
it.
C
Comes
in
so
the
way
we
think
about
it.
A
chain
is,
you
know:
blockchain
enables
a
new
medium
for
assets,
financial
assets
specifically.
What
does
that
mean
so
start
with
an
example.
You
know
central
bank
today
gives
that
money
in
different
ways
bills,
but
also
through
the
commercial
banking
system
through
Ledger's.
C
So
if
you
have,
if
your
banked,
you
can
actually
tell
the
central
bank
hey,
can
you
ship
me
1
million
dollars
in
an
armored
vehicle
and
they
deducted
from
from
your
balance
sheet
your
position
of
the
balance
sheet
and
you
get
the
same
amount
of
dollars,
but
you
get
them
in
a
new
medium
right,
so
block
should
enable
the
new
you
know,
third,
medium
in
that
example.
So
you
can
actually
ask
the
central
bank
now,
okay,
can
you
currency
these
dollars
into
this
block
in
this
new
cryptographic
medium?
C
So
once
you
have
this
in
this
new
medium,
it
can
actually
do
things
with
it
that
you
couldn't
do
before.
One
of
them
is
exchanging
it
for
a
security
that
also
has
been
issued
into
this
medium
without
using
an
intermediary
so
basically
enter
a
swap
contract.
You
both
sign
it
and
for
the
first
time
you
actually
swap
this.
C
You
know
Apple
share
for
money
without
using
a
clearinghouse
and
the
reason
you
can
do
this
is
because
everyone's
interacting
with
the
same
ledger,
but
you
only
have
kind
of
rights
access
to
your
own
assets
on
this
ledger.
So,
instead
of
having
your
own
standalone
Ledger's
and
at
the
end
of
the
day,
you
need
to
make
sure
that
my
ledger
syncs
up
with
your
ledger
and
there's
reconciliation,
there's
errors,
what
everyone's
looking
at
the
same
ledger,
so
you
know
take
a
step
back.
C
E
Yeah
I
like
to
pick
up
on
that.
That
was
the
promise
right.
That
was
what
I
think
about
three
years
ago,
when
everyone
here
came
and
first
learned
what
blocking
really
is
it
was
that
dream
that
two
parties,
tubing
Deutche
and
Barclays,
are
looking
at
that
one
ledger
and
they
all
agree
as
to
the
state
of
the
world.
The
problem
is
when
we
started
designing
and
doing
our
low
experimentations
and
labs.
They
don't
actually
agree
because
there's
no
actual
data
on
the
blocking
their
hash.
E
There's
commits
there's
different
trust
circles,
but
you
don't
have
that
global
consensus
that
we
all
wanted,
and
that's
really
the
answer
to
the
question,
I
think
about
what
Watson
would
sapote
what
does
DLT
brings.
That
was
the
promise
that
we
have
both
consensus
as
to
when
a
transaction
happened
and
also
as
to
what
is
the
content
of
that
transaction,
whether
it's
a
singular
transaction
or
an
aggregate
transactional
log
of
data.
E
Now,
if
you're
able
to
achieve
that
and
I
think
we're
still
in
the
early
days,
because
it's
Nathan
just
like
Richard
said
and
we're
so
experimenting
if
it's
about
scalability
or
number
of
transactions,
but
the
actual
leveraging
of
this
technology
can
go
from
governments
and
regulators
using
it
as
a
tool
actively
participating
in
writing
the
rules
of
consensus
into
a
ledger,
be
it
for
securities
or
equities
or
for
central
bank
money.
But
it
also
has
a
much
wider
range
of
thinking.
It's
about
an
identity
that
mean
right.
He
has
an
identity.
E
My
house,
where
is
it
registered?
What
are
the
things
in
my
house,
my
my
laundry
machine,
my
dryer,
my
fridge.
What
is
the
insurance
for
that
house?
What
does
where
does
all
the
data
about
these
items
that
are
linked
to
my
identity
sit?
Are
they
interconnected?
What
does
it
say
about
me?
My
credit
score
my
ability
to
repay
my
mortgage,
my
insurance
policy,
and
that
is
really
the
long-term
promise
and
that's
ten
years
away.
E
B
B
F
F
Banks
exist,
it's
the
price
capital
and
to
issue
capital
so
and
issue
credit,
so
fundamentally,
actually,
over
the
years
5060
years
of
the
technology
technology,
revolutions
gone
through
banking
and
we
have
solved
the
problems
where
we
have
to
come
together
and
work
together
across
smaller
payments
and
the
post
trade
settlement
space
and
to
answer
the
second
question:
that's
down
here
as
well
and
we've
solved
them.
They
are
market
utilities,
infrastructure
companies.
F
Actually
we're
now
cutting
costs
and
reducing
costs.
Our
customers
are
demanding
better
quicker
services,
cheaper
services
and
the
regulator
is
the
morning
that
we
do
it
more
openly
and
more
efficiently.
So
we
are
now
looking
at
our
own
market
infrastructure
that
has
been
built
up
over
the
years
and
it
is
now
ripe
for
disruption.
You've
got
a
disintermediation
and
if
the
to
answer
John's
question
up
here,
the
shear
alleges
really
make
us
do
something
we
can't
do
today.
Yes,
it
allows
us
to
remove
those
monopolistic
market
utilities
and
remove
them.
F
We
will
with
distributed
business
models
which
mean
that
we
won't
require
those
market
utilities.
You
look
at
us
as
a
family.
Member
of
the
our
fee
distributor
ledger
group
has
now
just
gone
on
two
series:
a
and
that
group
of
banks
is
coming
together
to
solve
the
problem
of
our
market
infrastructure.
This
has
grown
as
I
said
fat
and
heavy
over
the
years
to
go
back
to
the
KYC
which
keeps
coming
up.
Okay.
What's
the
issue
that
you
keep
seeing?
There
is
no
market
utility
for
kyc,
there's
a
reason
for
that.
F
It's
because
sharing
KYC
pickled
in
fact
I'm
more
than
happy
to
share
or
receive
kyc
from
someone
if
they're
also
prepared
to
take
the
liabilities
of
the
fines
if
you've
got
it
wrong,
but
you're
not
going
to
so
the
idea
of
sharing
your
kyc
data,
you
do
the
due
diligence,
you
share
it
on
a
blockchain
and
I.
Take
it
off
the
blockchain
and
I
use
it
yeah,
that's
fine!
F
As
long
as
you're
prepared
to
pay
the
fine
when
you've
got
a
judicious
law
and
the
answer
is
no
one's
prepared
to
do
that,
which
is
why
you
don't
see
a
market
utility
for
kyc,
which
is
why
it's
not
as
I
keep
pointing
out
a
good
use
case
for
distribute
alleges.
It
is
in
those
countries
in
those
areas
of
the
world
where
you
don't
have
central
authority.
You've
got
a
central
authority.
The
government
sends
authority
issuing
identity,
issuing
kyc,
didn't
use
it.
F
We're
going
to
give
return
back
to
London
many
of
us
and
we'll
go
in
through
Heathrow
put
our
passports
on
the
gates.
The
case
will
open
because
you
have
an
API
to
a
database
in
the
UK
passport
office.
That's
what
I
want?
That's,
how
we
solve
ID,
that's,
how
we
sold
kyc
and
so
just
a
Mayer's
point
we're
still
going
through
the
education
we're
trying
to
rid
ourselves
of
those
use
cases
which
are
not
valid.
We
need
digitization,
we
need
databases,
we
need
API,
go
and
do
that
project.
F
B
That
actually
also
shows
the
existing
cases
which
we've
seen
that
are
starting
to
be
successful,
where
there
was
either
no
market
so
you're
moving
from
OTC
into
something
that
you
organize
in
a
clearing
and
settlement
way
which
didn't
exist
before
so
it.
Suddenly,
you
bring
information
to
a
market
that
was
very
opaque
or
on
the
reverse,
you're
going
to
centralized
places
which
resolving
the
counterparty
risk
issue
but
which
were
not
necessarily
transparent
and
you
bring
in
transparent,
peaceful
death
distribution
or
a
distributed
governance
in
a
way
and
I
think
that's
an
interesting
question.
B
We
have
here
because
I
think
some
people
think
that
distributed
systems,
you
trust
actually
one
blockchain,
but
because
it's
distributed
you're
having
a
joint
trust
and
administration
way
and
I
think
there.
The
governance
is
so
crucial.
How
can
you
sit
something
up
between
government
entities
or
regulated
balancing
governments
that
would
allow
a
joint
governance
without
having
one
dominate
and
with
having
those
sort
of
identity
and
proof
solutions
where
you
can
really
let
data
and
data
proving
play
a
role
to
make
it
sort
of
just?
B
C
I
think
you
know
there's
a
couple
ways
of
going
about
it.
If
you
look
at
these
again,
for
that
example,
they're
actually
creating
a
b2b
network
and
visa
is
huge
and
consumer
payments,
but
they're
not
in
the
business
of
business
space.
So
what
they're
doing
is
actually
creating
a
new
business,
so
they're
not
going
in
you
know
the
first
blockchain
project
trying
to
kind
of
redo
redesign
their
core
business,
so
I
think
that's
one
approach,
which
is
pretty
neat
just
identifying
a
new
business
opportunity
where
you
can
use
whatever
market
access.
C
You
know
whatever
strength
you
have
at
the
company
which
in
these
cases
you
know
relationship
with
15,000
banks
and
build
on
that
and
back
to
the
ROI
just
kind
of
getting
that
in.
Of
course,
you
should
think
about
ROI.
However,
these
are
long-term
projects.
You
need
to
think
about
more
of
the
VC
investor,
so
you
can't
do
your
DCF
analysis.
You
can't
do
some
of
these
kind
of
basic
tools.
You
need
to
think
much
more
strategic.
You
need
to
think
you
know
what
is
the
market
going
to
be
in
ten
years?
C
Can
we
Center
the
market
around
ourselves?
Some,
how
can
we
get
you
know
10%
on
this
market.
I
think
that's
the
way
you
need
to
think
about
it,
because
otherwise,
you're
never
going
to
make
the
decision
to
move
forward
with
anything.
You
need
to
have
that
vision
and
someone
with
a
company
that
believes
in
that
vision.
How.
E
C
So
again,
thinking
about
like
a
VC,
think
about
Spotify.
You
know
2008
I
think
that's
when
they
were,
but
when
they
launched
there
were
you
know
there
were
no
streaming
services.
You
bought
mp3s
on
iTunes
and
before
that
you
bought
CDs.
So
of
course
10%
of
the
streaming
market
in
2008
is
zero.
So
you
need
to
have
that
vision
and
say
you
know
in
ten
years
you
know
we
want
now
they
have
130
million
subscribers.
C
So
that's
how
I
need
to
think
about
it,
and
you
know
back
to
the
analogy
about
medium,
a
new
medium
for
assets
which
Bachchan
is
Spotify.
The
new
meeting
for
music.
You
listen
live,
then
mp3s
and
now
you're
streaming
and
there's
a
whole
new
business
model.
So
you
need
people
with
a
little
bit
of
kind
of
long-term
ambition
and
a
real
vision.
And
then
you
need
to
take
small
steps
towards
a
vision.
It.
B
Ties
in
with
the
latest
question:
what
is
the
catalyst
for
moving
from
proof
of
concept
to
production,
critical
mass
regulation
or
credible
business
case
so
I
think?
Are
there
any
other
views,
maybe
also
from
Richard
on?
How
do
you
get
your
organization
to
move
from
your
seat
of
production?
A
couple.
F
Of
tough
issues
in
challenges
we
face
and
more
than
majority
of
them
is
social.
The
technology
perspective
we're
comfortable,
that's
moving
in
the
right
direction.
Yes,
it's
an
immature
technology.
Yes,
we're
reapplying
it
from
the
Bitcoin
experiment
to
too
many
other
use
cases
and
the
technology
has
to
adapt
to
those
new
requirements.
The
Linux
Foundation
and
the
creation
of
the
hyper
ledger
project
and
the
different
technologies
tend
to
come
into
that
are
three
quarter.
F
Ibm's
fabric
Intel's
sorted
means
that
we've
got
the
same
level
of
convergence
that
we
saw
in
Linux
over
the
last
20
years,
and
the
next
foundation
is
obviously
well-placed
to
bring
that
convergence.
We
don't
have
a
sea
Govinda
who
is
now
one
if
you
go
back
to
the
days
of
email
in
the
mid-90s,
Microsoft
would
have
loved
to
have
won
that,
and
all
of
your
emails
would
have
gone
through
Microsoft
Outlook
service.
They
didn't
win
that
and
we
are
better
because
of
it.
By
now.
F
For
us,
the
major
challenge
is
making
sure
those
technologies
stay
open.
The
people
who
talk
about
standards
usually
have
an
ulterior
motive.
They
don't
actually
want
open
standards,
they
want
proprietary
standards
that
they
can
then
profit
from,
and
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
open
this
up,
not
so
that
the
first
generation
of
Internet
companies
in
the
emergence
of
the
internet,
when
tcp/ip
was
out
a
while
Christelle
and
would
have
loved
to
have
owned
the
Gateway.
F
Then
we
need
to
make
sure
that
those
standards
are
open
so
that
Facebook
and
Amazon
those
types
of
companies
can
emerge.
We
have
yet
to
see
those
companies
being
created,
they
are
starting
to
emerge,
and
but
we
need
to
make
sure
it's
open
on
the
doors
open
to
the
Spotify,
the
Netflix
and
the
Pinterest
to
come
later,
and
because
it's
a
long
play,
that's
the
technology
side
happy
it's
moving
in
the
right
direction.
No
single
vendor
has
won
that
on
the
social
side,
though,
you've
got
to
try
and
get
projects
that
work
together.
F
What
is
the
best
thing
to
work
on
rather
than
is
all
working
on
different
pieces
and
then
actually
never
adding
up
and
we're
starting
to
see
some
of
the
incumbent
intermediaries
coming
into
this
space,
who
are
looking
to
try
and
break
new
markets
and
the
service
is
a
way
of
effectively
being
there
same,
centralized
business
model
and
used.
It
should
be
a
technology
and
there
is
literally
no
point
using
a
distributed
technology.
F
My
engineers
keep
pointing
out
to
me
if
you're
going
to
centralize
the
business,
if
you're
just
going
to
bring
the
data
back
in
to
monetize
it,
why
would
you
distribute
it
just
put
a
database
in
the
place?
We've
solved
that
pond
many
times.
These
has
got
a
very
impressive,
centralized
processing
system.
Why
would
you
need
blockchain?
Why
do
you
need
distributed
ledger?
B
I
think
you
make
a
big
point
on
data
being
open
data
is
being
opened
up
and
even
by
regulations
in
Europe
and
PSD
and
all
sorts
of
things
it's
being
opened
up
for
reasons
of
competition,
forcing
it
into
the
market.
But
now
we
would
have
a
technology
that
could
at
least
manage
that
better
and,
in
my
view,
in
terms
some
of
the
things
we
are
exposed
to
right
now,
we
would
be
in
a
better
place
if
we
had
already
advanced
on
both
technology
and
working
together,
because
very
often
it's
business
inertia
that
doesn't
adopt
it.
B
So
the
technology
itself
is
often
not
the
problem,
but
it's
people
agreeing
on
it
and
configuring
it
together
and
if
we
were
in
a
sort
of
distributed
world
in
the
future,
with
the
right
nuts
and
bolts
around
it.
The
access
to
data
and
the
fact
that
then,
how
you
deal
was
data
to
make
give
a
better
service
is
something
that
would
differentiate
you,
but
data
would
be
more
accessible
and
I.
Think
that's
where
today,
people
think
data
is
only
theirs
and
then
they
give
it
out
in
bits
and
pieces.
F
B
That
thing-
and
we
don't
even
know
that
and
we
haven't-
consented
to
it
for
nevermind
for
data
protection
right
and
but
you
mentioned
standards
for
ISO.
Obviously
is
it
started
to
look
at
it
with
GCC
or
9?
So
standardization
is
in
progress
and
it
looks
like
from
the
broad
stakeholder
group
it's
going
to
be-
hopefully
not
just
a
few
incumbents
that
people
doing
this
together,
but
also
maybe
back
to
Hana
on
interoperability,
and
you
meant
before
the
old
systems
will
still
stay
there
for
a
while.
D
Short-Term
are
speaking
of
standards.
We
would
just
look
at
how
could
we
leverage
existing
standards
to
put
the
product
to
build
projects
with
distributed
ledger,
and
so
we
looked
at
iso,
20
or
22,
and
looking
at
okay?
Where
can
we
leverage
that,
of
course,
ISO
TC,
3
or
7
is
very,
very
new
right?
It
just
first
meetings
it
took
place.
Second
meeting
will
be
later
on,
so
it
sound
even
if
it's
too
early
for
standards
altogether
right
technology
is
evolving.
D
We
have
to
look
and
of
course,
we
imagine
the
world
that
all
that
will
not
contain
just
one
box
chain
and
with
multiple
box
chains
will
have
to
interoperate
between
them,
and
that
will
require
a
number
of
challenges
to
be
addressed
like
to
the
earlier
point
of
identity
of
users
and
how
those
will
be
crossed
across
transferred
for
transaction
to
go
for
one
for
one
from
one
network
to
another
and
then
also
across
borders.
In
the
context
of
regulations
like
the
like,
gdpr
and
others.
D
B
C
C
Could
you
know
basically
be
thought
of,
as
you
know,
you're
transferring
money
to
Citibank
through
the
existing
rails
and
then
you
know
City
is
gonna
issue
you
City
coin.
It's
not
exactly
the
way
it
works,
but
I'll
use
that,
because
it's
the
simpler
example
and
then
you
can
use
that
on
a
boxer
Network.
So
it's
not
as
good
as
a
Federal
Reserve
dollar,
because
you
have
some
counterpart
of
risk
with
City
in
this
case,
but
that's
one
way
to
bridge
the
gap.
C
The
other
way,
which
is
even
easier,
is
to
issue
something
like
an
IOU
on
a
network.
So
let's
say
you
have
ten
banks
and
I'm
Bank
of
America
and
I
just
issue
a
Bank
of
America
IOU
is
it
which
is
like
a
cheque.
It's
like
a
promise
to
pay
something
later
and
then
you
can
use
those
I
use
back
and
forth
and
maybe
net
settle
on
a
block,
so
network
and
then,
at
the
end
of
each
day
you
can
use
the
Fed
wire
to
to
do
the
real
settlement.
C
C
B
From
my
experience,
central
banks,
of
course,
look
at
the
technology
they
experimented
with
in
the
RTGS
system,
what
to
prove
that
it
can
work
but
they're,
not
at
the
point
where
they're
saying
I
will
deploy
it
because
they
say
I'm
a
trusted
central
bank.
Why
should
I
move
into
a
different
system
that
is
distributed
and
also
at
European
level?
B
Think
if
you
have
that
long-term
vision,
that
would
benefit
from
transparency,
removal
of
information
of
symmetries,
more
efficient
and
really
rearranging
the
market
into
players
that
then
have
to
really
provide
value
at
and
bethe,
better
analytics
and
better
data
services,
whether
versus
those
that
made
money
with
having
a
sort
of
a
coked-up
position
of
power
and
that
power
is
going
away.
Then,
of
course,
you
really
get
into
the
competition
that
regulators
really
want
and
I
think.
It
also
takes
time
for
regulators
to
understand
that,
but
ultimately
I
think
we
will
move
into
that
space.
F
That
one,
which
is
on
the
question
of
digitizing
assets,
absolutely
right.
The
person
asking
the
question
he
clearly
has
done
his
research
or
her
research.
If
you
look
at
the
impulsive
in
the
social
service
industry,
where
we've
already
digitized
assets,
I
have
had
digital
assets
for
many
years
in
the
wholesale
banking
area
and
the
markets
business
you're,
starting
to
see
the
emergence
of
distributed
Ledger's
because
they've
already
disagree,
the
assets
and
person
asking
the
question
probably
comes
from
retail
space
or
corporate
space.
F
Where
there
are
many
things
we
haven't
digitized
yet
mortgages
being
a
good
example
and
and
as
I
already
alluded
to
in
the
UK
we
still
haven't,
issued
or
we've
been
given.
The
ability
to
issue
a
token
of
someone's
identity
and
all
I
can
do
is
photocopy.
Someone's
passport,
don't
even
know
if
the
passport
valid
or
not
and
then
just
file
that
away.
We've
got
to
go
through
those
digitization
process,
decide
project
and
some
of
the
parts
with
vaginal
set.
F
B
B
B
B
Okay,
but
I
think
it's
quite
clear
that
some
of
our
conversation
has
been
has
been
sticking,
so
the
short
term
is
really
to
continue
to
digitize,
to
work
together
and
to
have
the
right
vision
to
move
it
forward
and
in
the
long
run
it
is
going.
I
mean
I've
family
believe
it
will
change
the
market
and
it
will
happen,
but
regulates
will
need
to
be
more
informed.
B
Central
banks
and
other
players
need
to
be
part
of
it
and
I
think
that's
where
we
get
the
real
benefit
and
also
the
reader
challenge
for
those
people
that
are
running
may
be
running
business
models
today
that
are
not
necessarily
built
on
inventiveness,
but
more
on
sitting
on
efforts
that
may
eventually
go
if
you're
in
this
distributor
transplant
system
in
the
future.
So
I
think
we
have
four
minutes
left
everyone
perspective,
maybe
starting
with
Richard.
G
G
G
E
So
I
think
there
are
some
projects
that
are
looking
into
and
when
you
mean
peer-to-peer
it's
either
between
nodes
or
between
the
final
beneficiary,
which
are
like
supposedly
the
wallets
right,
that's
from
the
Bitcoin
world
and
given
all
the
experimentation
in
the
PRC's,
it's
always
more
about
the
nodes
and
when
the
wallets
are
they're
managed
by
the
nodes.
So
even
if
you're
offloading
transactions
they're
going
to
remain
in
the
node
level
of
that
transaction
and
then,
when
you
have
kind
of
committee
to
the
node
they
go
automatically
on
without
blocking.
E
E
F
My
Victor,
if
you're,
watching
your
technologies,
its
evolving,
that
has
clearly
shown
interest
and
huge
potential.
The
key
for
it
is
to
for
people
to
come
up
to
speed
on
what
it
can
do
and
then
what
you're
doing
today
and
then
involve
yourself
in
in
those
open
collaborations
with
your
peers
and
your
competitors
to
solve
some
of
your
customers,
challenges
which
reduces
your
costs.
Yeah
I,.
E
Think
distributed
Ledger's
and
blockchains
are
revolutionary
in
terms
of
distributed
business
models
and
finance
in
itself.
I
think
the
fact
that
they're,
having
alongside
the
PSD
to
the
opening
of
banking
as
an
API,
is
an
opportunity
to
be
honest
of
rethinking
what
a
banking
model
is
and
how
the
financial
infrastructure
can
reconcile
both
of
these
technologies.
What
is
a
bank
selling
just
transactions,
or
is
it
identity?
E
It's
about
the
assets
itself
are
the
data
and
we
need
to
kind
of
think
how
that
fits
into
both
our
lives
as
individuals,
but
also
in
terms
of
the
financial
world,
and
this
is
the
long
term
opportunity,
but
we're
still
really
really
far
away
from
that
and
we
haven't
started
to
address
how
we're
taking
this
technology
into
production.
You
know
the
knits
and
grips
of
how
it's
going
to
happen.
So
we're
still
kind
of
talking
right
here
and
there's
going
to
be
about
two
years.
D
Sure
so
takeaway
for
me
for
the
last
three
years,
if
we
work
with
blockchain
technology,
is
that
if
initially
customers
who
are
coming
and
saying
like,
oh,
you
did
something
with
blockchain.
We
really
want
to
do
blocking
projects.
Vlt
projects
doesn't
matter
what
it
is.
We
have
this
budget.
We
really
want
to
explore
and
do
a
POC,
and
you
know
blockchain,
give
me
right.
It
really
comes
to
a
very
mature
feet
on
the
ground.
D
C
Final
words
of
wisdom,
very
much
aligned
with
with
Hannes
so
basically
make
sure
that
you're
creating
value,
even
if
it's
long
term
make
sure
that
what
you're
building
is
not
a
shiny
object
called
you
know,
Beauchamp,
you
see
it's
actually
solving
a
real
problem
down
the
line,
and
it
it's
weird
that
you
have
to
say
that.
But
it's
a
really
good
piece
of
advice
that
Moore
should
listen
to
this
this
early
in
in
this
stage
of
this
technology.
C
The
other
thing
is
start
small,
but
with
a
bold
vision,
start
small
in
terms
of
one
or
two
participants,
you
don't
have
to
be
ten
when
you're
kicking
off,
but
you
know
the
vision
can
be
there.
If
you
have
the
market
mandate
to
do
something,
you
can
even
do
it
yourself
and
then
on
board
others
like
later
so.
B
Final
words,
I
think
blockchain
will
transform
financial
markets
and
markets
in
general
and
even
governments.
It
will
take
a
long
time
but
I
think
we're
seeing
very
tangible,
incremental
steps
towards
this,
and
we've
seen
much
more
energy
and
focus
compared
to
a
few
years.
It
moves
from
speculation
to
actually
sitting
down
and
solving
problems
and
therefore
I
say
blockchain
of
the
future.
I
hope
you
had
a
great
session
and
please
pick
up
some
speakers
afterwards.
Thank
you
for
a
great
panel
and
have
a
great
finish
of
money.
2020
this
year.